[biofuels-biz] ENERGIES... week of 2/3/02
ENERGIES... week of February 3, 2002 GREEN ENERGY POLITICS U.S.A. In a typical year in Washington, D.C. the President submits a budget in the early part of the year, then Congress and the White House take three-quarters of that year bickering over how to spend the taxpayer's hard-earned dollars. This year, at least for green energy, politicos at the two-ends of Pennsylvania Avenue may come to agreement before the cherry blossoms get washed off the trees in the first spring rain. In a bit of luck, and maybe the realization in Washington that green energy would be good for the country (finally), the portion of President's 2003 budget which pertains to green energy is strikingly similar to an energy bill the Senate is now working on. Similarity means less haggling and bills get signed and passed into law sooner than later. Points of similarity... -- The President wants the Production Tax Credit (PTC), now for wind and some specific biomass energy, extended through 2005. The Senate wants the PTC extended another five years. (That would be 2007, if retroactive to the first of this year. The extension could initiate a large expansion and presence of wind energy in the U.S.) -- Both want the PTC to be expanded to include a wide variety of biomass energy sources. The Senate also wants to include geothermal energy. -- Both want tax credits for the purchase of hybrid electric and fuel cell cars. The President wants one based on fuel efficiency improvements. Hybrids would get up to $4000, fuel cell cars $4000 - 8000. The Senate offers much the same thing. (Of course you can't buy a fuel cell car yet.) -- Both want tax breaks for installed solar systems - photovoltaic and thermal - up to $2000 per system. -- Both want tax credits or excise tax relief for producers of alternative fuels. The President wants tax help for ethanol and methanol made from renewable sources. The Senate wants tax relief also to include biodiesel. Where they differ... -- The President wants a new tax credit for combined heat and power plants (CHP) and an extension of the tax credit for methane landfill gas projects. -- The President also wants $150 million for the first year of the Freedom CAR fuel cell vehicle and infrastructure program. (Funding for subsequent years is not mentioned.) -- The President wants grants to continue for the weatherization of homes of low-income families. The Senate wants tax breaks for energy efficient appliances as well as for new or renovated buildings that have reduced energy consumption. The fine points of each measure will be tossed around for the next few months by politicians and analysts. Some have already noted that a portion of the funding for renewables in the President's budget would come from the revenue from drilling for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR). Other energy and environmental programs are cut in that budget, but there is money for the development of new nuclear power. Tax breaks are included in the Senate bill for the burning of cleaner coal and installing clean coal technologies. COLD COMBUSTION. Using a real-world situation to test its fuel cell experimental car, Volkswagen has successfully driven its HY.POWER, a modified Volkswagen Bora (Jetta in the U.S.) in the depths of winter over the 6578 foot Simplon Pass that connects Italy and Switzerland . HY.POWER uses the company's proprietary fuel cell technology and two supercaps or ultra-capacitors, for additional on-demand power. HY.POWER's electric traction motor has a 75 kilowatt rating (102 horsepower) and the supercaps provide 30 kilowatts of power for short periods of time for passing and mountain climbing. In the journey HY.POWER performed as well as a stock gasoline Bora of the same horsepower rating. VW is describing the chemical reaction in a fuel cell appropriately as cold combustion. Hydrogen is oxidized within the fuel cell stack without an ignition source such as a flame or spark. The proton exchange membrane (PEM) fuel cell was developed with the help of the Paul Scherrer Institute (PSI) in Zurich, Switzerland. The key component in the new design is its low-cost-to-manufacture membrane developed by PSI. Tested along side HY.POWER was a Bora TDI (turbo diesel) running on a biodiesel fuel known as SunFuel. Volkswagen thinks that SunFuel can be used successfully in fuel cell cars that have a reformer on board from which to extract hydrogen from the renewable fuel. Visit the Paul Scherrer Institute at http://www.psi.ch/ . GREENERCARS.COM. The American Council for an Energy Efficient Economy (ACEEE) has just published the latest edition of its consumers guide to the greenness of new vehicles available in the U.S. - the Green Book (tm): The Environmental Guide to Cars and Trucks - Model Year 2002. All new car buyers in the U.S. should look at this guide if they are planning to buy this year. The new edition
[biofuel] ENERGIES... week of 2/3/02
ENERGIES... week of February 3, 2002 GREEN ENERGY POLITICS U.S.A. In a typical year in Washington, D.C. the President submits a budget in the early part of the year, then Congress and the White House take three-quarters of that year bickering over how to spend the taxpayer's hard-earned dollars. This year, at least for green energy, politicos at the two-ends of Pennsylvania Avenue may come to agreement before the cherry blossoms get washed off the trees in the first spring rain. In a bit of luck, and maybe the realization in Washington that green energy would be good for the country (finally), the portion of President's 2003 budget which pertains to green energy is strikingly similar to an energy bill the Senate is now working on. Similarity means less haggling and bills get signed and passed into law sooner than later. Points of similarity... -- The President wants the Production Tax Credit (PTC), now for wind and some specific biomass energy, extended through 2005. The Senate wants the PTC extended another five years. (That would be 2007, if retroactive to the first of this year. The extension could initiate a large expansion and presence of wind energy in the U.S.) -- Both want the PTC to be expanded to include a wide variety of biomass energy sources. The Senate also wants to include geothermal energy. -- Both want tax credits for the purchase of hybrid electric and fuel cell cars. The President wants one based on fuel efficiency improvements. Hybrids would get up to $4000, fuel cell cars $4000 - 8000. The Senate offers much the same thing. (Of course you can't buy a fuel cell car yet.) -- Both want tax breaks for installed solar systems - photovoltaic and thermal - up to $2000 per system. -- Both want tax credits or excise tax relief for producers of alternative fuels. The President wants tax help for ethanol and methanol made from renewable sources. The Senate wants tax relief also to include biodiesel. Where they differ... -- The President wants a new tax credit for combined heat and power plants (CHP) and an extension of the tax credit for methane landfill gas projects. -- The President also wants $150 million for the first year of the Freedom CAR fuel cell vehicle and infrastructure program. (Funding for subsequent years is not mentioned.) -- The President wants grants to continue for the weatherization of homes of low-income families. The Senate wants tax breaks for energy efficient appliances as well as for new or renovated buildings that have reduced energy consumption. The fine points of each measure will be tossed around for the next few months by politicians and analysts. Some have already noted that a portion of the funding for renewables in the President's budget would come from the revenue from drilling for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR). Other energy and environmental programs are cut in that budget, but there is money for the development of new nuclear power. Tax breaks are included in the Senate bill for the burning of cleaner coal and installing clean coal technologies. COLD COMBUSTION. Using a real-world situation to test its fuel cell experimental car, Volkswagen has successfully driven its HY.POWER, a modified Volkswagen Bora (Jetta in the U.S.) in the depths of winter over the 6578 foot Simplon Pass that connects Italy and Switzerland . HY.POWER uses the company's proprietary fuel cell technology and two supercaps or ultra-capacitors, for additional on-demand power. HY.POWER's electric traction motor has a 75 kilowatt rating (102 horsepower) and the supercaps provide 30 kilowatts of power for short periods of time for passing and mountain climbing. In the journey HY.POWER performed as well as a stock gasoline Bora of the same horsepower rating. VW is describing the chemical reaction in a fuel cell appropriately as cold combustion. Hydrogen is oxidized within the fuel cell stack without an ignition source such as a flame or spark. The proton exchange membrane (PEM) fuel cell was developed with the help of the Paul Scherrer Institute (PSI) in Zurich, Switzerland. The key component in the new design is its low-cost-to-manufacture membrane developed by PSI. Tested along side HY.POWER was a Bora TDI (turbo diesel) running on a biodiesel fuel known as SunFuel. Volkswagen thinks that SunFuel can be used successfully in fuel cell cars that have a reformer on board from which to extract hydrogen from the renewable fuel. Visit the Paul Scherrer Institute at http://www.psi.ch/ . GREENERCARS.COM. The American Council for an Energy Efficient Economy (ACEEE) has just published the latest edition of its consumers guide to the greenness of new vehicles available in the U.S. - the Green Book (tm): The Environmental Guide to Cars and Trucks - Model Year 2002. All new car buyers in the U.S. should look at this guide if they are planning to buy this year. The new edition
Re: [biofuel] California school buses hit for smog - Old diesels put statein tie for worst rating
Keith Addison wrote: Natural gas is the solution, hmphh - when will it ever dawn on these people that biodiesel is a cheaper and better answer? Do they have ADD or what?? - Keith http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2002/02 /08/MN7.DTL snip In California, the odor of biodiesel is considered a pollutant because it impacts air quality. Such absurdity is one of the reasons why I don't live there anymore! robert luis rabello Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Statement-SOLAROIL-Eu-tax.4.12.2001.doc
Keith Addison wrote: Ulp... Do you have a url for that, Alan? I think it was in response to a post in this list. Either that or the biodiesel list and I put in the wrong address on my reply. Either way, Oops. Somebody is practicing junk science. However the process to chemically change the structure of Pure Plant Oil, is a very costly operation and requires a lot of energy, as it removes the glycerine substituting it by methanol as well as adding other chemicals, **making the endproduct poisenous and equally hazardous as dieselfuel.** Um... Oops. -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.com Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] vac distillation heat disposal
Remember, Boiling requires heat to make it happen, even if it is occuring in a vacumn. The vacumn making the ethanol boil will absorb heat from the mix. That's the process that air conditioners work byor did you mean the heat in the condensor from the condensing vapors? Eric It's disposing of the heat after I've used it, that will be my shortcoming. I am trying to remove the heat disposal problem, by simply not putting the heat in to start with. I welcome any thoughts and commentary on my approach. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EPA hassle
In a message dated 02/11/2002 8:04:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I like your idea that we have government employees paid by us to harass us. Sadly, It's not my idea they have come up with it all by themselves...only because we do not demand accountability from those we elect and do not write letters putting those people on report by exposing their tactics when they harass and intimidate people. We bitch and complain locally but fail to write letters. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: More on EPA hassle
In a message dated 02/11/2002 9:02:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: VeggiePup your good [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] EPA hassle
In a message dated 02/11/2002 10:54:09 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But don't paint it with too broad a brush - very many of them are fine people who take their responsibilities seriously. That is the sad part. There are many who do a good job and mean well but are many times corrupted by the system. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Statement-SOLAROIL-Eu-tax.4.12.2001.doc
Alan Petrillo wrote: Keith Addison wrote: Ulp... Do you have a url for that, Alan? I think it was in response to a post in this list. Oops (my turn!), so it is - sorry, I missed that one. Well, no, actually, it was 47kb, and seemed to contain the same message at least twice, maybe I got bored. Sent 10 Feb 2002 by Woodland B.V. [EMAIL PROTECTED], touting Solaroilsystems.com: http://www.solaroilsystems.com/ Email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Either that or the biodiesel list and I put in the wrong address on my reply. Either way, Oops. Somebody is practicing junk science. It's just BS. Biodiesel is poisenous and equally hazardous as dieselfuel, sheesh. I wrote to Woodland and cc'd to Solaroilsystems.com, saying spreading such misinformation about biodiesel does the renewable fuels movement a disservice. I suggest others do likewise. You can read the message here: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=11392list=BIOFUEL Thanks Alan. Regards Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Osaka, Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ However the process to chemically change the structure of Pure Plant Oil, is a very costly operation and requires a lot of energy, as it removes the glycerine substituting it by methanol as well as adding other chemicals, **making the endproduct poisenous and equally hazardous as dieselfuel.** Um... Oops. -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.com Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Azeotropic ditillation
From: Thomsons [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Azeotropic ditillation Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 21:31:08 - Can anyone give sond tchnical data as to why azeotropic ditillation is no longer used comercially? Will the use of molecular sieves be overtaken by pervaporation with membranes to produce 200 proof ethanol? Andy Thomson Dear Andy, I am a chemist by education, but little have I used (or remember) what I learned years ago. I do environmental now, so most of what I do is specific to that. I do know that distillation takes Lots of heat energy. So this is a big negative. However At one time I worked for a company that made oxygen concentrators. They used molecular sieve material in a reciprocating flow system to separate oxygen from nitrogen. I wonder if a similar system could be used to concentrate ethanol in a much more efficient manner than distillation? Yours, John Taylor _ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: ethanol distillation
Moti, just to add an idea to get cheaper vacuum, to use the gravity not only a big vacuum pump. In industry, to keep under vacuum something the usual way is to use a 11 ö 11.5 meter tall cylinder full of slow running water (called here water leg) usually a steel tube of 1 to 5 inches in diameter with a box or tray full of water at the bottom and some vacuum device connected to the head (with valves) to eliminate the non condensing gases ( CO2, air ) usually a vacuum pump or steam operated ejector, with running water inside tubes as heat exchanger conneted to the water leg, to condense the water/ethanol vapours. The ejector is a Venturi's pipe, that could work with any running fluid even with cold water from a small centrifugal pump. The level of vacuum obtained depends on the water temperature used for cooling (the lower the better) and the pump's or ejector's flow rate capacity, I add a kind of drawing, hope it goes fine. Best regards Juan ---I I to I_ _I from still pump I I I I I I I I I I 11 m minimum I I I I I=I I=I Tray -- De: motie_d [EMAIL PROTECTED] A: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Asunto: [biofuel] Re: ethanol distillation Fecha: Sbado 9 de Febrero de 2002 2:43 PM --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you pumping the liquid solution, or just the vapors? Just the vapor is moving across. You have space over the liquid and the air is connected to a cold space that is lower so the cold air is stable. As the alcohol becomes dew the partial vapor pressure renews the concentration. A refrigeration system has its evaporator as the insulated trap and the condenser heat is put back into the brew. Or the cold trap is cooled by ambient or cold water. I have a big 2 cylinder air compressor I'm thinking of using. It has an upright 60 gallon pressure tanks, that I think would be an adequate condensor. I'll draw the suction from above the liquid in the fermenter, possibly through another tank(propane) then through the compressor itself, to the pressure tank. I will have one tank under vacuum, and the other pressurized. The vacuum tank(propane tank) should catch mostly water vapor. The rest should condense under pressure in the air tank. Liquids will go to the bottom, and compressed CO2 should remain a gas in the top. The CO2 can be routed back into the fermenter. Any further distilling can be done with either a Potstill or Reflux column. In my neck of the woods the great outdoors gets very cold in winter. Enormous heat sink. I'm in Minnesota, so I know what you mean there. It's too cold to start this project this winter. It gets cool enough at night in the summer time. Thanks for your input! Motie Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Scale sensitivity for measuring lye
I'm looking to purchase a digital scale for weighing out the lye in biodiesel production. My question is, how sensitive a scale is needed? Would a scale with 1 gram readability be fine, or do I need a readability of .1 gram? Your answer would be most appreciated! Chris Amar Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Azeotropic ditillation
Can anyone give sond tchnical data as to why azeotropic ditillation is no longer used comercially? Will the use of molecular sieves be overtaken by pervaporation with membranes to produce 200 proof ethanol? Andy Thomson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: vac distillation heat disposal
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], mtushmoo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remember, Boiling requires heat to make it happen, even if it is occuring in a vacumn. The vacumn making the ethanol boil will absorb heat from the mix. That's the process that air conditioners work byor did you mean the heat in the condensor from the condensing vapors? I can get rid of the condensor heat without any problems. I can use my cold well water for cooling, and use the less cold water for the start of another batch, or water my lawn. It's the heat that is left in the 'wash' water that will be a problem. If a 100 gallon batch of 14%Etahnol is distilled, and I get 14 gallons of Etahnol out of it, I am still left with 86 gallons of boiling water to get rid of. I would prefer to leave most of the water in the fermenter, and only remove the alcohol. Hopefully, the fermenter can keep working continuously. I can draw off the alcohol, and keep adding fermentable material. I don't need to draw off all the alcohol. I just need to remove enough to keep it below toxic levels for the yeast. As a bonus, it should be much less labor-intensive. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Azeotropic Distillation
Can anyone give sound technical data as to why azeotropic distillation is no longer used commercially? Will the use of molecular sieves be overtaken by pervaporation with membranes to produce 200 proof ethanol? Andy Thomson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: ethanol distillation
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Juan Boveda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Moti, just to add an idea to get cheaper vacuum, to use the gravity not only a big vacuum pump. In industry, to keep under vacuum something the usual way is to use a 11 ö 11.5 meter tall cylinder full of slow running water (called here water leg) usually a steel tube of 1 to 5 inches in diameter with a box or tray full of water at the bottom and some vacuum device connected to the head (with valves) to eliminate the non condensing gases ( CO2, air ) usually a vacuum pump or steam operated ejector, with running water inside tubes as heat exchanger conneted to the water leg, to condense the water/ethanol vapours. The ejector is a Venturi's pipe, that could work with any running fluid even with cold water from a small centrifugal pump. The level of vacuum obtained depends on the water temperature used for cooling (the lower the better) and the pump's or ejector's flow rate capacity, I add a kind of drawing, hope it goes fine. Best regards Juan ---I I to I_ _I from still pump I I I I I I I I I I 11 m minimum I I I I I=I I=I Tray The drawing didn't come through very well. I'm not sure I understand the process yet. Can anyone help us out? Is it somewhat like a siphon, with condensate in the vacuum tube forming the vacuum? Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Azeotropic Distillation
Can anyone give sound technical data as to why azeotropic distillation is no longer used commercially? Andy Thomson As I recall, azeotropic distillation of ethanol uses benzene, or maybe hexane. Benzene is a big problem with EPA, OSHA, etc., and probably similar groups in other countries. Hexane shouldn't be any worse than gasoline, but I know they can't use it for vegetable oil extraction anymore, so it's probably highly regulated for ethanol as well. Also I suspect the extra distillation steps (one with the azeotrope-forming compound, and then another to remove it from the ethanol) are quite energy-intensive compared to the newer methods. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Statement-SOLAROIL-Eu-tax.4.12.2001.doc
guess they missed the picture of the guy drinking his biodiesel. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://24.190.106.81:8383/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:29 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Statement-SOLAROIL-Eu-tax.4.12.2001.doc Alan Petrillo wrote: Keith Addison wrote: Ulp... Do you have a url for that, Alan? I think it was in response to a post in this list. Oops (my turn!), so it is - sorry, I missed that one. Well, no, actually, it was 47kb, and seemed to contain the same message at least twice, maybe I got bored. Sent 10 Feb 2002 by Woodland B.V. [EMAIL PROTECTED], touting Solaroilsystems.com: http://www.solaroilsystems.com/ Email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Either that or the biodiesel list and I put in the wrong address on my reply. Either way, Oops. Somebody is practicing junk science. It's just BS. Biodiesel is poisenous and equally hazardous as dieselfuel, sheesh. I wrote to Woodland and cc'd to Solaroilsystems.com, saying spreading such misinformation about biodiesel does the renewable fuels movement a disservice. I suggest others do likewise. You can read the message here: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=11392list=BIOFUEL Thanks Alan. Regards Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Osaka, Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ However the process to chemically change the structure of Pure Plant Oil, is a very costly operation and requires a lot of energy, as it removes the glycerine substituting it by methanol as well as adding other chemicals, **making the endproduct poisenous and equally hazardous as dieselfuel.** Um... Oops. -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.com Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] vac distillation heat disposal
Why not set up a waste heat exchanger. That would allow you to recapture some of the heat needed for distillation to heat the next batch. mtushmoo wrote: Remember, Boiling requires heat to make it happen, even if it is occuring in a vacumn. The vacumn making the ethanol boil will absorb heat from the mix. That's the process that air conditioners work byor did you mean the heat in the condensor from the condensing vapors? Eric It's disposing of the heat after I've used it, that will be my shortcoming. I am trying to remove the heat disposal problem, by simply not putting the heat in to start with. I welcome any thoughts and commentary on my approach. Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Statement-SOLAROIL-Eu-tax.4.12.2001.doc
They have made a mistake, but it is actually becoming a fairly common sentiment in Europe that pure plant oil (SVO) is greener and less polluting than biodiesel, that it is preferable from CO2 standpoint, and also because no methanol or processing (energy) is needed. Also, that apparently under the German water pollutants system of classification that plant oils are a 0,. biodiesel a 1, and diesel fuel a 2 (I think I have that stated correctly). I am not sure why that is, and I know that my friends in Environment Canada would say a biodiesel spill in waterways is probably preferable to a Canola spill... but that does seem to be the way it is under their (Germany's) way of classification of hazards. These folks have erred, but are not totally off base or totally different in their comments, from many others in that region. It is an opinion that is not to be ignored or downplayed, even if incorrectly presented in that post, IMHO. Edward Beggs From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:29:42 -0500 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Statement-SOLAROIL-Eu-tax.4.12.2001.doc guess they missed the picture of the guy drinking his biodiesel. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.dns2go.com/ Human powered devices, equipment, and transport - http://24.190.106.81:8383/2000/humanpower.htm [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 10:29 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Statement-SOLAROIL-Eu-tax.4.12.2001.doc Alan Petrillo wrote: Keith Addison wrote: Ulp... Do you have a url for that, Alan? I think it was in response to a post in this list. Oops (my turn!), so it is - sorry, I missed that one. Well, no, actually, it was 47kb, and seemed to contain the same message at least twice, maybe I got bored. Sent 10 Feb 2002 by Woodland B.V. [EMAIL PROTECTED], touting Solaroilsystems.com: http://www.solaroilsystems.com/ Email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Either that or the biodiesel list and I put in the wrong address on my reply. Either way, Oops. Somebody is practicing junk science. It's just BS. Biodiesel is poisenous and equally hazardous as dieselfuel, sheesh. I wrote to Woodland and cc'd to Solaroilsystems.com, saying spreading such misinformation about biodiesel does the renewable fuels movement a disservice. I suggest others do likewise. You can read the message here: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=11392list=BIOFUEL Thanks Alan. Regards Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Osaka, Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ However the process to chemically change the structure of Pure Plant Oil, is a very costly operation and requires a lot of energy, as it removes the glycerine substituting it by methanol as well as adding other chemicals, **making the endproduct poisenous and equally hazardous as dieselfuel.** Um... Oops. -- Aviation is more than a hobby. It is more than a job. It is more than a career. Aviation is a way of life. A second language for the world: www.esperanto.com Processor cycles are a terrible thing to waste: www.distributed.net Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: vac distillation heat disposal
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Randall Shelley Barron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why not set up a waste heat exchanger. That would allow you to recapture some of the heat needed for distillation to heat the next batch. I've typed out several different replies to this message, and deleted them before posting, because they sound rude. It is NOT my intention to be rude, and I apologize in advance if it comes across that way. I am trying to design a process that is simple. I do not care to heat all the excess amount of water, and cool it again, even if I have a use for the heat. I prefer to not heat it up to begin with. When it is heated, all the yeast will be killed, and I will be starting from the beginning again. I prefer to have a continous running system, instead of several batch- type systems. I know it cannot be a true continuous system because of a probable build-up of toxins in the fermenter, unless I can figure out how to remove the toxins and dead yeasts. I've put some thought into that already, but am not ready to deal with it, until I have the mental bugs worked out of the vacuum theory. I got distracted a bit by the thought of a very long Lyne Arm/condenser combination, inspired by a post about a 'water-leg'. Think of a PotStill, with the fermenter being the Pot, and a very long Lyne Arm running to the bottom of a hill. With liquid in the Lyne Arm flowing by gravity, when a valve is opened to draw off some liquid, a vacuum would be created in the fermenter. Shutting off the valve at the bottom, would allow the vapor to condense, creating more vacuum. Intriguing possibilities! Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
