[biofuels-biz] Picture, price of gas above $2.00 for 87 Octane at a Shell station in San Diego
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/evworld/files/price%20of%20gas%20San%20Diego%20February%2018%2C%202003.JPG This station is a mile or less from the ocean and is somewhat toward the high side, though it is far from the highest around. Interestingly, the 76 station down the street has decoupled its pricing a little bit, which I've seen happen generally only in times of volatility. Don't know if members of other groups can read an evworld group file. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuels-biz] Re: [evworld] Picture, price of gas above $2.00 for 87 Octane at a Shell station in San Diego
Just saw Diesel #2 for $2.10 last night!! Things are right sizing . On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, murdoch wrote: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/evworld/files/price%20of%20gas%20San%20Dieg %20February%2018%2C%202003.JPG This station is a mile or less from the ocean and is somewhat toward the high side, though it is far from the highest around. Interestingly, the 76 station down the street has decoupled its pricing a little bit, which I've seen happen generally only in times of volatility. Don't know if members of other groups can read an evworld group file. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England
Yes, that's right Steve - I was looking at pounds/acre of oil. Gallons of oil per acre would be in that range or actually below. Now, are we talking US gallons or Imperial gallons? Or is the US gallon the new Imperial gallon? Or should we all just use metric (I'll vote for the latter!) ;-) Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca On Monday, February 17, 2003, at 07:59 PM, Steve Spence wrote: more like 39 gallons per acre. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html not even oil palms produce 1000 gallons / acre. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England hemp is also good, oil yield approx 1000 gal/acre dD biofuel@yahoogroups.com wrote: Areind of mine is a farmer in the home counties of England and is interested in what alternative crops he could grow to produce oil to power his tractors etc, is rape the most viable etc,and what sort of machinery would be needed to extract the oil, and what sort of oil yield could he expect per acre? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England
Speaking of oil palms, how about those oil palms of the northchokecherries Tests have shown that a car can run for about 7,000 kilometres on a hectare of wheat converted into ethanol, 14,000 km on canola-based biodiesel and 30,000 km on a hectare of chokecherries. http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Pages/grain/news/newsarchive/ 02igqinews/020926igqinews4.html Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca On Monday, February 17, 2003, at 07:59 PM, Steve Spence wrote: more like 39 gallons per acre. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html not even oil palms produce 1000 gallons / acre. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England hemp is also good, oil yield approx 1000 gal/acre dD biofuel@yahoogroups.com wrote: Areind of mine is a farmer in the home counties of England and is interested in what alternative crops he could grow to produce oil to power his tractors etc, is rape the most viable etc,and what sort of machinery would be needed to extract the oil, and what sort of oil yield could he expect per acre? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Hog Snot!!! was Re: Torture Tactics - Yes, in America was Re: [biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq
Greg, First off, I would hazard to guess that you haven't particulary versed yourself on the Headwaters battles of either yor or present, nor how the ever so precious legal recourses have been and are being exhausted, with the courts peculiarly siding predominantly with the perverted notion that somehow the consequences of enacting the full dimension of personal property rights don't extend beyond a property line onto the property and into the rights of others. (Now watch you run with the bone of personal property rights.) So your over generalization of lazyiness to people who have actually participated in processes to their legal, ethical, principle, moral and wit's end is considerably out of order. On top of this lacking, by your standard, people should only conduct acts of civil disobedience after the bombs have been launched, after societies are devastated, after the last tree is cut, after the salmon are on a devastating decline or after a species is lost, all because there may perhaps yet be one more avenue of legal recourse available - even if the only thing that recourse saves is a black and white drawing of the last of a species - not the real thing, much less a sufficiently diversified gene pool. Funny thing about nature and other structures. They're not on the same time schedule as the judiciary appeals process. But to avoid your disdain, people should do nothing until the ink dries on paper, no matter that everything be dead, dying or inevitably headed in that direction. Thank you no. I'd much rather be the recipient of your disdain, which will eventually change when it's your well being that's being directly challenged or you begin to realize the devastating collective impact of legal recourse. Also, you might care to take a look at the revised Monkey Wrench manuals (unpublished). Techniques for the sort of protest presence that you take such umbrage with have for the past two decades not necessarily included self releases, unless the initiator feels the necessity due to any belief of impending threat that might compromise life and/or limb. Fast moving freight trains and loggers in an unpoliced wilderness frequently qualify. Suburban offices almost never have. All the same, there remains no hard and fast rule that anyone can count on with absolute certainty. Constabulary agencies have been intimately familiar with this tactic and its nuances for an equal length of time, making their practice in this instance purely criminal, even if not legally pursuable. But, no doubt, you will continue to choose to express otherwise. Don't kid yourself. These types of activities are high stakes gambits with participants on the protest side completely aware as to what extremes the enforcement side is capable and perfectly willing to resort. Funny thing though. The limits of what a tree sitter or a locked down sit-in activist is capable of doing is of exponential magnitudes less that what a logger with a chain saw or a pack of jack-booted thugs are capable of executing within the realm or vagueries of legal indiscretion. As for this? Terrorism is an example of this, it is the extreame of civil disobedience and law breaking. What a blackwashed perception. Murder is now extreme civil disobedience? The execution of humans in the pursuit of intentionally distorted and warped fundamentalism is extreme civil disobedience? No that's called warped fundamentalism. Even John Brown's intent to liberate the armaments of a military repository in order to assist in a slave revolt can't be placed in the same category as what you would purport - unless, of course, you believe the enslavement of humans to be an acceptable institution and any belief or exercise obverse to that one of a terrorist. This is now a world where peace activists, environmental activists and recreational cannabis smokers alike are all too conveniently lump-summed as supporters of terrorism. Yet the purveyors of government overthrows, collusive corporate/political/military coups, general armament, mayhem, distraction, destruction and disregard for life in general are expected to be viewed as the right-hand avenging angels of God almighty and securers of the peace? Nothing could be more perverted, with few that ignorant or deluded. And no piece of legislation, statute or authoritative dictate is going to disturb that knowledge or the consequences of it - not in the present and not throughout the eons. And to answer your question at the end of your post? Yes, peace is a covenant, as well as a matter of convenience. Few care for the alternative. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 10:25 PM Subject: Re: Torture Tactics - Yes, in America was Re: [biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 16:08 Subject:
[biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 20:41
Subject: [biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq
Wrong again, You may not have been paying attention as he played
his game
since the Gulf War, but, I have. He has been kicked inspectors
out of Iraq,
several times, since the end of the Gulf War.
{ken} Your memory may have conveniently failed you. Hussein did not
kick the inspectors out of Iraq. He asked the American members of
the inspection team to leave because they were CIA agents using the
inspections as a cover to spy on Iraq. The response of the
inspection team was to pull everyone out.
Given the standard set by GW should I run into his
house and change the regime? I think not. If we go in and
assume that this is good for us to do what if France decides that
since we have numerous WOMD that we should have a regime change
and masses troops in Quebec? Treaties be damed.
Your missing the point, Saddam has failed to comply with a Peace
Treaty, and several UN resolutions. When is he finally going to
comply? The US on the other hand, has bent over backward with
treaties as that concern WOMD.
(ken} there are many countries that ignore UN resolutions especially
Israel, and treaties are often ignored. The US has not bent over
backward with treaties concerning WOMD. Until just recently no
treaty eliminated nuclear weapons, all the treaties with the Soviet
Union limited future production and occasionally eliminated outdated
weapons. BTW hasn't Bush thumbed his nose at the Kyoto accord and
ignored the ABM treaty?
We could leave him alone and isolated. It worked for 9 years.
Wrong again, all it did was make him think that he can get away
with more.
We left him alone after the Iraq / Iran war, what did he do? He
went into
Kuwait, and caused acts to be committed that almost put him on par
with the
Talaban in some cases.
(ken) don't forget Bush's daddy led him to believe that he could
invade Kuwait with impunity.
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[biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq
--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 05:24
Subject: [biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq
The president is doing what he thinks is right and believes in,
when you do it you call it courage, is it any less for him, I
don't think so.
{ken} how much courage did he show when he joined the national guard
to awoid being drafted and sent to Viet Nam?
done?
We didn't give him arms for that fight. At best, we wanted him
and Iran to knock them selves senseless.
(ken) What history books do you read? Not only did we give him arms
we gave him mustard gas (which he used in Iran and on the Kurds),
Anthrax, and VX nerve gas. Plus we gave him the technology to
construct plants so he could manufacture these himself.
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Re: [biofuel] Oil reserves and The oil in Iraq
- Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 18:53 Subject: [biofuel] Oil reserves and The oil in Iraq Puuh, sweat, sweat, Dear Greg, Good, I suppose that you must know your boolean algebra and the basis for computers to make this definition of multiplication and division. So we do not have to waste time on this as long as you do it right. I've always had a hard time with algebra (other than the basic algebra anyway), but, to me it just seams make sense. Obviously you need some help with the numbers and I will try to explain the issues as good as I can. To start with, the source which is generally regarded as comprehensive, interesting and quite accurate is at the following link, http://www.bp.com/downloads/1087/statistical_review.pdf Confusion time. On Pg. 4 they list Mexico with N. America, but, on Pg. 5, the map shows Mexico as being included with S. central America as far as the graphs. Which is correct? This cast doubt on the graphs on Pg. 8 and others that are based on the information from Pgs. 4 5. I'm not being argumentative, just confused. I am kinda suprised by the map on Pg. 19, I would think that the U.S. would try and get more oil from Africa, it being closer, than from the middle east. To explain Known Oil Reserves versus speculations about the Total Oil Reserves, it will save space in this email if you read what I wrote about it on the following link, http://energy.saving.nu/resources/oilreserves.shtml Another stumbling block I'm having is the differance between Proven Reserves, Estamated Reserves of a known oil source and Speculation of unknown reserves. To me this is 3 seperate things, akin to Known, Most likely and a wild ass guess. I read the link above, but, like I said, to me I'm seeing 3 seperate things rather than just ' Proven ' and ' Speculation '. To add some background to this, is that the only unknown larger oil reserves that might be in US, are maybe to be found in Alaska. Iraq, which have known oil reserves that amounts to half of Saudi Arabia (the largest in the world) is the second largest. Together they represent around half of the worlds known oil reserves. It is however expected that when Iraq is fully explored, it will be as large as Saudi Arabia and maybe larger. With known oil reserves, it is known oil reserves also for US. A discussion of single fields is therefore academic and fruitless as arguments. The only thing that might be open for discussions are the unknown oil reserves. Your confusions could come from that in some US estimates, it is included oil imports. In R/P values for the whole world, production is equal to consumption, but for local areas the consumption are used. The R/P value for US is therefore the US known oil reserves divided by its yearly consumption and that is how they get 10.7 years, the number does not even include estimates of a rise in consumption. Bluntly said, with current known oil reserves, without imports and with current consumption, US will have oil for 10.7 years. Obviously US must import oil or rapidly find very large new oil reserves and if non of this is available US would be in a crisis situation. This helps. Therefore US decided many years ago to build a storage reserve, mainly from imports. The storage reserve, if it is full, give US a year or two in combination with own oil reserves. This storage reserve is mainly used for stabilizing prices and at the moment it is around 50% of its capacity. It should not be necessary, but I will anyway point out that US already now is in a very sensitive situation. Since when is Mexico US? Do you have plans of invading them too? I have not heard about that, it is a complete surprise. Regarding Mexico, see the first link I gave you, where you can find detailed data for the whole world. You will find Canada and the Central/South American countries also. No, I'm not planning on invading mexico, but, I have talked about the U.S. buying Baja Califorina from them a few times, but, that is an entirly different subject. I tossed in Mexico as part of the World Numbers, I know, I should of seperated it from the US numbers, but I didn't. Sorry. For NG it includes WY, since it is 2001/2002 numbers, but the same as I said about R/P values for oil is also valid for NG. Your point about multiple cycles for nuclear is very valid, but for various safety reasons the normal reactors are one stage. I have not heard that multiple stages would take care of the waste problems to any larger degree and balanced with the other safety concerns, it does not look as an advantage. By taking the spent reactor fuel, and reprocessing it, you reduce the amount of new fuel you use and the total amount of spent fuel that becomes waste. I don't know the exact numbers, but, I have been told that in a spent fuel rod, somewhere between 80% and 90% of the fuel would
[biofuel] Engine Transplant
I have a 94 Dodge conversion van with a 318 gasoline engine. It has over 200,000 miles on it and I am thinking that I will need a new engine soon. Does anyone have any ideas on what would be a good diesel transplant? The Cummings diesel used in the Dodge Ram Pickup uses the same tranny but is much to big to fit into the small engine compartment in the van. Ken Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: Hog Snot!!!
- Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 23:22 Subject: Hog Snot!!! was Re: Torture Tactics - Yes, in America was Re: [biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq Greg, First off, I would hazard to guess that you haven't particulary versed yourself on the Headwaters battles of either yor or present, nor how the ever so precious legal recourses have been and are being exhausted, with the courts peculiarly siding predominantly with the perverted notion that somehow the consequences of enacting the full dimension of personal property rights don't extend beyond a property line onto the property and into the rights of others. It depends on the action, and in many cases the law of the land. What may be the right and legal thing to do in one place, may be the right and illegal thing to do elsewere, or for that matter the wrong but still legal in still another place. So your over generalization of lazyiness to people who have actually participated in processes to their legal, ethical, principle, moral and wit's end is considerably out of order. On top of this lacking, by your standard, people should only conduct acts of civil disobedience after the bombs have been launched, after societies are devastated, after the last tree is cut, after the salmon are on a devastating decline or after a species is lost, all because there may perhaps yet be one more avenue of legal recourse available - even if the only thing that recourse saves is a black and white drawing of the last of a species - not the real thing, much less a sufficiently diversified gene pool. Far to many times people jump on the civil disobedience band wagon, just to be there with out having done any other work, to resolve the issue, this is what I'm talking about. I'm involved in a few issues now that may in the end, result in it, but, that does not reduce in any way my responsability to first do all I can, in the accepted legal manor. Funny thing about nature and other structures. They're not on the same time schedule as the judiciary appeals process. But to avoid your disdain, people should do nothing until the ink dries on paper, no matter that everything be dead, dying or inevitably headed in that direction. They can use the 1st amendment to sway public opinion, you change enough minds, you don't need to wait for the appeals process, because a law can get passed faster than that. Thank you no. I'd much rather be the recipient of your disdain, which will eventually change when it's your well being that's being directly challenged or you begin to realize the devastating collective impact of legal recourse. And when your activities affect me negitively? Do I take matters into my own hands? Perhaps I should go through the court system? Or would you rather I try to work thing out with you? I would think that you would want one of the last two, but, what you sugest is if the last two don't work, I go to #1, is this what you want, I woulnd't think so. Also, you might care to take a look at the revised Monkey Wrench manuals (unpublished). Why should I? Techniques for the sort of protest presence that you take such umbrage with have for the past two decades not necessarily included self releases, unless the initiator feels the necessity due to any belief of impending threat that might compromise life and/or limb. Fast moving freight trains and loggers in an unpoliced wilderness frequently qualify. Suburban offices almost never have. All the same, there remains no hard and fast rule that anyone can count on with absolute certainty. Constabulary agencies have been intimately familiar with this tactic and its nuances for an equal length of time, making their practice in this instance purely criminal, even if not legally pursuable. But, no doubt, you will continue to choose to express otherwise. If your going to say it, why don't you say it in plain english, rather than obscurely. Don't kid yourself. These types of activities are high stakes gambits with participants on the protest side completely aware as to what extremes the enforcement side is capable and perfectly willing to resort. Funny thing though. The limits of what a tree sitter or a locked down sit-in activist is capable of doing is of exponential magnitudes less that what a logger with a chain saw or a pack of jack-booted thugs are capable of executing within the realm or vagueries of legal indiscretion. And what about the guy working hard for an honest buck? Let me guess To Bad right? As for this? Terrorism is an example of this, it is the extreame of civil disobedience and law breaking. Do not terrorist break laws and are they not disobedient to civil code? What a blackwashed perception. Murder is now extreme civil disobedience? The execution of humans in the pursuit of intentionally distorted and warped fundamentalism is extreme
RE: [biofuel] Latest from my Pal
I kept out of the discussions so far, but now I want to kick in... some reactions. I'm from Europe, Belgium, and I agree, Americans are not THE bad guys... but be honest, your not (I mean the presedent, senate, lobbyists,... those who make the rullings) saints eithers. You can read the kind of information you are sending me in this country, its always there. Don't think it is exclusive information only available outside of the US. But you can not discard that the US has large intrest-groeps and lobbyist, with big impact and influence. This makes that informatie will get filtered. It is not censorship, but info will be colored, and the big companies will 'stear' the info. Should we learn to turn our back on oppressive regimes, stop being the biggest provider of aid? Should we forget about 20th century history and the lessons learnt. Isolationism took place in the '30's. Result WWII. For the people who want 'personal freedom', the world has been lucky to have the US. E.g. WWII. But also note that not everyone thinks this way in the world. Other religions and cultures may differ. Who are we to judge they are wrong. If it is one person leading this, OK that's easy. But if it's part of the culture, isn't that the same as you first statement as others saying the US is bad becaus of election, burgers, capitalism, We have to respect people can (and will) be different in thinking than we do. What we can oppose is that others want to force their thinking up on us. And also on this we US,Europe,... have to be carefull not to do this to others... Should America have forced a stalemate in Korea in the '50's? Was America naive getting into Vietnam as the French bailed in the early '60's? Should America have let Iraq have Kuwait? Iraq invading Kuwait, that's easy. US went to help because of personal agenda, but some legimitation was there. Now I'm not so sure. We haven't seen one clear evidenvce or smoking gun yet. Innocent until proven guilty??? Be honest, when the US comes to 'aid', it is offen with a double (hidden?) agenda. And that's only human. But not let us make humans into saints when they are not. (I mean for instance Bush!) Do you think we don't know the US supported Iraq in the early '80's following the Iranian revolution when the two countries were fighting and Iran looked set to take over the middle east. Do you think we don't know that it is a miserable job trying to maintain some order in the middle east to stabilize oil prices upon which the world depends, not just the US which is less dependant than Europe. Do you think we protect Israel just to piss people off or do you think people here really worry about another holocaust. Lets' be honest, some prove of double agenda. Don't forget the US has a large intrestgroup related to Israel. That does not automatically make action wrong, but again, 'colours' the actions. It appears to be a unifying force, hate America, clearly 9/11 was great for many. We did enjoy seeing the shots of people dancing in the streets in Palestine on the same day. And this is about the biggest coloring of info... 9/11 was WRONG. no discussion. But the pictures of the palestine as shown on CNN were 1 YEAR OLD... not the day after. And surely, some (oer more) of them will have found Bin Laden 'great', but most also will not have known the full impact. And doin't forget the situation theuy are in. All things have always two sides The UN didn't act with Afghanistan. Should the US have gone in to put an end to the terrorist training camps there? Or do people believe that it was Bush making it all up with the help of Hollywood. Maybe Bush wanted to bring order back to the heroin trade because that's how he secretly funds his megalomania. Or maybe Bin Laden works for Bush, after we never got him, so that we'd have a good excuse to run around the world killing people out of a self manufactured sense of moral outrage. The nature of the UN would confict with action in Afghanistan. They are a 'defense' organisation. This would rather have been something for the NATO. although the US was not at war with Afganistan. These organisations are set up as 'interface' between countries, not individuals, as Bin Laden and his bandits. regards, Filip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Oil reserves and The oil in Iraq
Greg, I am glad that you found the numbers interesting and that it obviously enhanced your view. Your stumbling block regarding the maps is nothing, compared when some Americans try to make maps of the world. The individual numbers are the most interesting anyway. Regarding known (proven) reserves, it is not much to say. Estimates are founded on geological data and some of the are made by economists. This explains the range of numbers. I call it speculations, since they vary between 2 to 4 times the known. We could make 3 or more groups out of them, but it does not really change the over all picture. I like your idea of known, estimates and wild speculations, but my point in the article was that it is really not serious to fight about if it is me, my children or my grandchildren that will suffer. I like to see future generations span more the 3 generations and ideally see a sustainable situation. When you deal with this figures and draw the consequences, it is ludicrous to say that it is not about oil. If you the see who are getting development contracts in Iraq and who is not getting them, it fits well with the groupings on the war issue. It is only Spain, who have tentative agreement with Iraq that is acting without logic. I am not surprised about that at all, but maybe they have been promised a larger stake from US/UK. During the late 60's and early 70's, it was many numbers flying around. The most serious analyses was Hubbert's presentation to the US Congress in mid 70's. Since I was very much involved in energy questions already then, I remember the important ones. It is quite possible that you had some doomsday prophets that was talking about 30 years, but I do not remember it. If they did, it was irrelevant anyway in the circles that I was working in. I can not take this as a serious argument, since I did not supported such estimates. Known oil reserves for 50 to 60 years was what we talked about and that was quite correct. We were also aware that that new discoveries would push that numbers forward. In that sense I would say that the numbers we discussed was maybe more optimistic than todays. Nuclear is a subject that I try to avoid, since it is a very infected area with many unqualified opinions. We were involved in designing of PA systems and in the control calculations of stress and fixations of piping in the two last built Nuclear Plants in Sweden. I am not in starch opposition to nuclear, but some of the plants built and operated today are outright dangerous. I would like to see the idea of low temperature mini reactors for hot water production for heating picked up again, it would be much safer and minimum of dangerous waste. As it is, fusion have a long way to go if it ever will be an alternative. Hakan At 12:26 AM 2/18/2003 -0700, you wrote: - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 18:53 Subject: [biofuel] Oil reserves and The oil in Iraq Puuh, sweat, sweat, Dear Greg, Good, I suppose that you must know your boolean algebra and the basis for computers to make this definition of multiplication and division. So we do not have to waste time on this as long as you do it right. I've always had a hard time with algebra (other than the basic algebra anyway), but, to me it just seams make sense. Obviously you need some help with the numbers and I will try to explain the issues as good as I can. To start with, the source which is generally regarded as comprehensive, interesting and quite accurate is at the following link, http://www.bp.com/downloads/1087/statistical_review.pdf Confusion time. On Pg. 4 they list Mexico with N. America, but, on Pg. 5, the map shows Mexico as being included with S. central America as far as the graphs. Which is correct? This cast doubt on the graphs on Pg. 8 and others that are based on the information from Pgs. 4 5. I'm not being argumentative, just confused. I am kinda suprised by the map on Pg. 19, I would think that the U.S. would try and get more oil from Africa, it being closer, than from the middle east. To explain Known Oil Reserves versus speculations about the Total Oil Reserves, it will save space in this email if you read what I wrote about it on the following link, http://energy.saving.nu/resources/oilreserves.shtml Another stumbling block I'm having is the differance between Proven Reserves, Estamated Reserves of a known oil source and Speculation of unknown reserves. To me this is 3 seperate things, akin to Known, Most likely and a wild ass guess. I read the link above, but, like I said, to me I'm seeing 3 seperate things rather than just ' Proven ' and ' Speculation '. To add some background to this, is that the only unknown larger oil reserves that might be in US, are maybe to be found in Alaska. Iraq, which have known oil reserves that amounts to half of Saudi
Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England
ethanol or oil? I'm assuming ethanol from chokecherries? Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 11:49 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England Speaking of oil palms, how about those oil palms of the northchokecherries Tests have shown that a car can run for about 7,000 kilometres on a hectare of wheat converted into ethanol, 14,000 km on canola-based biodiesel and 30,000 km on a hectare of chokecherries. http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Pages/grain/news/newsarchive/ 02igqinews/020926igqinews4.html Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca On Monday, February 17, 2003, at 07:59 PM, Steve Spence wrote: more like 39 gallons per acre. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html not even oil palms produce 1000 gallons / acre. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England hemp is also good, oil yield approx 1000 gal/acre dD biofuel@yahoogroups.com wrote: Areind of mine is a farmer in the home counties of England and is interested in what alternative crops he could grow to produce oil to power his tractors etc, is rape the most viable etc,and what sort of machinery would be needed to extract the oil, and what sort of oil yield could he expect per acre? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] more on the rising cost of fuel
How many normal cars can you buy for the cost of one Chevy Suburban? Surely the fuel saving alone would pay for a smaller car. Depends on normal. I paid 18,000 dollars (US) for my 1999 Turbo diesel Suburban. I also run it on Biodiesel. Fuel savings? Even if it got 10 MPG instead of 22, I would still be saving in fuel costs. I make BD for about 40 cents per gallon, yes gallon not litre. Also, I am saving a waste product from going into a landfill, and reducing our dependence on foreign oil. In the US your normal car would be gasoline powered. There are very few diesel cars available here. Even at 25 or 30 MPG that smaller car still burns gasoline. Imported, non-renewable, green house gas producing fossil fuel. Sure, a VW TDI burning BD would be better, but I cannot fit my family into a Jetta. I only wish my wifes mini van were a diesel as well. Then we would not have to buy any gasoline at all. Maybe some day soon more diesels will be available in America. Mercedes is brining back the diesel in it's E class, Jeep is going to put a 2.8 TD in the Liberty next year. Then of course there is the Freightliner Sprinter (now also badged as the Dodge Sprinter), a HUGE van with a MB TD in it. I saw the Dodge display at the auto show in Detroit in January. There was a work van and passenger version of the Sprinter (10 passenger). I could stand upright in both of them. WOW. They're coming, just not soon enough for me. Blessings, Joe. :-) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] organic solar cells
On Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:08:40 -0800 (PST), you wrote: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storyprint.cfm?storyID=3101056 Thanks for the info. I hope if works out for them. Over the years I've heard allusions to the energy intensity and waste-disposal problems of present forms of PV manufacturing, so maybe this material (I think that's what it is) will be better in those areas as well as having other potentials. The negotiations with the cell phone manufacturer sounded interesting. Development of power solutions for small devices is an interesting field. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Environment-friendly fuel for Indian railways
Jatropha seeds are mainly utilized for their medicinal properties in India. It is also commonly referred to as 'purging nut'. The latex, oil, twigs, wood and leaves are all used externally for healing wounds, to stop bleeding, to treat rheumatism, skin diseases, leprosy, etc. The manure that is referred here, is the seed cake which is rich in nitrogen and phosphorus. So, apart from using the non-edible oil for producing biodiesel, the other parts of Jatropha can also be used to a very great extent. Likewise, the oil crop which I'm working on (Mahua - Madhuca indica) is also a non-edible variety and possesses similar properties. Another advantage is that, such oil crops can be easily cultivated on arid and semi-arid regions. Kavitha. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hi Murdoch, I think you are on the right track here. I would be interested in more info on the jatropha seed. The glycerine is typically used for soaps, but has many industrial uses. I'd be interested if it could be used for a fuel cell. That would be great. Where does the 300 kg manure come from? Is the jatropha seed used for cattle feed in India? The traditional ag uses for manure reduces the need for chemical fertilizers, so that may be the best use. A secondary use would be to ferment it into biogas. Tim Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Original Message -- To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:22:24 -0800 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Environment-friendly fuel for Indian railways Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com About 400 kg of Jatropha seed can yield 100 kg oil, which after blending with methanol or alcohol would give 100 kg bio-diesel, 10 kg glycerine and 300 kg manure. In addition it creates large-scale employment. I wonder as to possible different uses for glycerine and manure. I don't know anything about it. Could glycerine be used in a fuel cell? Could manure be dried and burned in a boiler or generator (not to exclude it from traditional uses)? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Latest from my Pal
Cool, Yes I believe you are right. Somewhere around 70%. I very much doubt it - more like a minority, maybe not even a very big one. Eg (close your eyes and point anywhere), the anti-war protests: ...It was the wide array of people from all walks of life - high school students showing they cared about more than their own problems, soccer moms protesting for the first time, retired school teachers, professionals in suits, war veterans, parents who also brought their young children - that gave me the most hope. Bush can continue to ignore veteran activists and liberals like me. But he can't ignore the independent suburban voters, the kind who don't vote straight-ticket Republican or any other political party... I believe the people who came out and practiced their democratic rights on Saturday are more American than those who sat on their butts and criticized them. We must continue to display our flags with pride, showing we are patriots who care about more than the selfish, violent agenda pushed by Bush Inc... So where was this cesspit of knee-jerk anti-American left-wing iniquity, you might ask? ... one of the most right-wing regions of the world, the former home of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney and the fictional J.R. Ewing and many others who represent cold-hearted, selfish economic and political policies: Dallas, Texas. http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15197 Texans Turn Out Against War By Jackson Thoreau, AlterNet February 16, 2003 Most of us Americans know the difference between right / wrong, and good / bad. $100 billion a year spent on advertising in the US says otherwise, $35 billion a year spent by the PR industry in the US to twist reality on behalf of the rich and powerful says otherwise, intense and ongoing concentration of media ownership in the hands of powerful corporate interests (the major PR agency clients) says otherwise. Yet I agree with you - most Americans do know the difference betwen right and wrong, good and bad, in spite of all the spin - but they don't agree with you about the war. But say you're right, 70% of Americans agree with James's pal. How come it's just the opposite in virtually every other country, including your alleged ally Britain, including your other alleged ally Australia? - 70% and up against the war. Including Turkey (see the recent NATO fuss, if you didn't already). They're, what, plain wrong? But they're the vast world majority - uh, you believe in democracy, right? They're ill-informed then? Hah! James's (erstwhile) pal isn't American, he's English, now living in the US. What if he'd moved to Germany instead? Would he now be thinking just the same, do you think? Or would he be agreeing with the Germans? But I bet you just discounted what I said above about PR dollars. So what then - simply standing on US soil brings a penetrating enlightenment all its own that just doesn't happen elsewhere? Keith And 99 % don't live anything like what is shown on the movies or the news. Harley -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 3:22 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Latest from my Pal IK suspect there's quite a bit of support for the latest from my US based English pal... Fine The US is bad and everyone else is good. Bush didn't really get elected, he just scammed his way in and we were too busy eating burgers to notice. We don't really have a free press or opposition party to raise issues. We get our rocks off killing people around the world and are all part of a global conspiracy to steal everybody's natural resources because we are fed up paying for them. You can read the kind of information you are sending me in this country, its always there. Don't think it is exclusive information only available outside of the US. Should we learn to turn our back on oppressive regimes, stop being the biggest provider of aid? Should we forget about 20th century history and the lessons learnt. Isolationism took place in the '30's. Result WWII. People in America are appalled by the McCarthy era too, but if it wasn't for American pressure from 1944 to the Berlin wall coming down Russia would have taken over Europe. As it was a stalemate was produced, where the other side tired first. Was America perfect through that 45 year period? No. I think we get on better with Russia than Europe these days. What was the central issue? Communism versus Capitalism, just basic ideals. One system seems to work better than the other. Should America have forced a stalemate in Korea in the '50's? Was America naive getting into Vietnam as the French bailed in the early '60's? Should America have let Iraq have Kuwait? Do you think we don't know the US supported Iraq in the early '80's following the Iranian revolution when the two countries were fighting and Iran looked set to take over
Re: [biofuel] Oil reserves and The oil in Iraq
Hi, I've watched this discussion for a while and there appears to be no reference to methane hydrates, which are well distributed throughout the world and are well positioned to readily serve the coastal U.S. population when developed. While there are a variety of data sources, I will leave compilation to those so inclined. In the meanwhile a reasonably non-contentious starting source might be http://www.fe.doe.gov/oil_gas/methanehydrates/ Rgds, G.R. Hakan Falk wrote: Greg, I am glad that you found the numbers interesting and that it obviously enhanced your view. Your stumbling block regarding the maps is nothing, compared when some Americans try to make maps of the world. The individual numbers are the most interesting anyway. Regarding known (proven) reserves, it is not much to say. Estimates are founded on geological data and some of the are made by economists. This explains the range of numbers. I call it speculations, since they vary between 2 to 4 times the known. We could make 3 or more groups out of them, but it does not really change the over all picture. I like your idea of known, estimates and wild speculations, but my point in the article was that it is really not serious to fight about if it is me, my children or my grandchildren that will suffer. I like to see future generations span more the 3 generations and ideally see a sustainable situation. When you deal with this figures and draw the consequences, it is ludicrous to say that it is not about oil. If you the see who are getting development contracts in Iraq and who is not getting them, it fits well with the groupings on the war issue. It is only Spain, who have tentative agreement with Iraq that is acting without logic. I am not surprised about that at all, but maybe they have been promised a larger stake from US/UK. During the late 60's and early 70's, it was many numbers flying around. The most serious analyses was Hubbert's presentation to the US Congress in mid 70's. Since I was very much involved in energy questions already then, I remember the important ones. It is quite possible that you had some doomsday prophets that was talking about 30 years, but I do not remember it. If they did, it was irrelevant anyway in the circles that I was working in. I can not take this as a serious argument, since I did not supported such estimates. Known oil reserves for 50 to 60 years was what we talked about and that was quite correct. We were also aware that that new discoveries would push that numbers forward. In that sense I would say that the numbers we discussed was maybe more optimistic than todays. Nuclear is a subject that I try to avoid, since it is a very infected area with many unqualified opinions. We were involved in designing of PA systems and in the control calculations of stress and fixations of piping in the two last built Nuclear Plants in Sweden. I am not in starch opposition to nuclear, but some of the plants built and operated today are outright dangerous. I would like to see the idea of low temperature mini reactors for hot water production for heating picked up again, it would be much safer and minimum of dangerous waste. As it is, fusion have a long way to go if it ever will be an alternative. Hakan At 12:26 AM 2/18/2003 -0700, you wrote: - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 18:53 Subject: [biofuel] Oil reserves and The oil in Iraq Puuh, sweat, sweat, Dear Greg, Good, I suppose that you must know your boolean algebra and the basis for computers to make this definition of multiplication and division. So we do not have to waste time on this as long as you do it right. I've always had a hard time with algebra (other than the basic algebra anyway), but, to me it just seams make sense. Obviously you need some help with the numbers and I will try to explain the issues as good as I can. To start with, the source which is generally regarded as comprehensive, interesting and quite accurate is at the following link, http://www.bp.com/downloads/1087/statistical_review.pdf Confusion time. On Pg. 4 they list Mexico with N. America, but, on Pg. 5, the map shows Mexico as being included with S. central America as far as the graphs. Which is correct? This cast doubt on the graphs on Pg. 8 and others that are based on the information from Pgs. 4 5. I'm not being argumentative, just confused. I am kinda suprised by the map on Pg. 19, I would think that the U.S. would try and get more oil from Africa, it being closer, than from the middle east. To explain Known Oil Reserves versus speculations about the Total Oil Reserves, it will save space in this email if you read what I wrote about it on the following link, http://energy.saving.nu/resources/oilreserves.shtml Another
Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England
I didn't think anyone used the imperial gallon anymore. that was 5 us quarts, right? That's pretty close! One Imperial gallon equals about 1.2 US gallons. One Imperial gallon = 4.546 liters One US gallon = 3.785 liters One UK gallon = 1.201 US gallons http://www.ex.ac.uk/cimt/dictunit/ccvol.htm __ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: We need Trolls. RE: Torture Tactics - Yes, in America was Re: The oil in Iraq
Hello Hakan Keith, Sometimes we need the Trolls for adjustments of the grey scales. Oh I agree - but there are trolls and trolls, and this was one we can do without and not suffer a great deal for lack of him, I do believe. Grey matter rather than grey scales. Look at the positive effect of the actions of the chief Troll in the US. It's a bit of a vindication that people are saying this these days. I started saying it a few months after the un-election, which didn't make me too popular. It was all too blatant and in-your-face, too outrageous, and people were duly getting outraged - people who, I suspect, might have kept right on slumbering peacefully if the Other Guy had won. Their agenda isn't too different, if different at all, it's mainly just a different style, and a matter of degree. They have the same paymasters. The whole world is now reacting and it is a lot of positives coming from it. The chief Troll and his Troll assistants really got the juices going. Now Iraq recognizes that their renegade province is a sovereign country and are signing a nonaggression pact. The Arab countries realize that they have to sort out their relations in a more unified way. If Israel depart from their imperialistic demands, it is an opening for peace in the region. If a war does not happen, they will have to deal with peace. Some other examples (from incomings to the grab-bag over the last couple of days): http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2769313.stm BBC NEWS | World | Americas | Monday, 17 February, 2003, 08:27 GMT San Francisco ends world peace rallies http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15182 A Global Antiwar Movement http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15163 Moving On: A New Kind of Peace Activism http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=41ItemID=3067 Showdown By Michael Albert 17 Feb 2003 It did not solve the US oil demand problem and this might have to be solved with alternative energy and energy conservation. The risk is that US still will try to solve the problems by force, since it is and can develop to a more desperate situation. If so, the real motives will be out in the open and the international support level will not be there. I hope that the message was clear. I hope that it does not result in that we paint Saddam Hussein white or refrain from destroying all chemical and biological weapons that US delivered to him. Indeed - but I don't think there's much danger of that, although the peace protesters have been accused of it by pro-war commentators in the US. Nobody's pro-Saddam Hussein, not even Osama bin Laden, contrary to top-level and media-wide disinformation in the US. In a taped statement, bin Laden told the Iraqi people to rise up against Saddam Hussein. Yet Colin Powell claimed that Hussein and bin Laden are working together, and MSNBC omitted the reference in its news report. See: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15176 Osama Rallies Muslims, Condemns Hussein By William Rivers Pitt, TruthOut.com February 12, 2003 This next is an interesting analysis of bin Laden's statement, worth a read: http://www.fpif.org/commentary/2003/0302binladen.html Foreign Policy In Focus | Global Affairs Commentary | Osama Bin Laden's Message to the Arab and Muslim World: I am not the enemy. America is. By R.S. Zaharna February 12, 2003 Also: Blix Report Confounds Push to War While the United States and U.K. had hoped to use Blix's second report to push through a second resolution authorizing war, the outcome was just the opposite. The Guardian reports, The French and Russian foreign ministers were given rare applause in the council chamber yesterday (Friday) when they demanded more time for inspections, in striking contrast to the stony silence that greeted hoarse and irritable insistence that time had run out from Colin Powell, the U.S. secretary of state. The divide within the Security Council has intensified, putting any future resolution in jeopardy. While the Bushies may still go ahead alone, such an outcome does not bode well for Tony Blair who will face cabinet resignations and mass defections from his Labor party. See: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,896139,00.html Special reports A case for war? Yes, say US and Britain. No, say the majority Julian Borger in Washington and Ewen MacAskill Saturday February 15, 2003 The Guardian Blix Questions Powell's Evidence In a crucial report to the United Nations, chief inspector Hans Blix gave Iraq a mixed review -- though his assessment was far less scathing than the one in January. He again raised questions about Iraq's stocks of anthrax and nerve agent VX and its long-range missiles, but also took a swipe at the two satellite images presented by Colin Powell to the Security Council. Powell argued that the images showed Iraqis moving arms out of certain sites to evade inspectors. Blix said, The reported movement of munitions at the site could just as
[biofuel] U.S. Special Operations Units Already in Iraq
See also: http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15169 U.N. Charade: Timing of Iraq War in Bush's Hands from Start By Michael T. Klare, Pacific News Service February 12, 2003 http://www.presentdanger.org/commentary/2003/0302milplan.html Pentagon Planning, Not Diplomacy, Sets U.S. Agenda on Iraq By Michael T. Klare February 17, 2003 Initial Phase of Attack Underway U.S. Special Operations troops are already in Iraq, hunting for weapons sites, establishing a communications network and seeking potential defectors from Iraqi military units. Pentagon officials are calling this the initial phase of a larger ground war. The Pentagon plan du jour, as touted by insider sources in a Washington Post article, calls for a series of preliminary ground actions to seize Iraqi territory and effectively encircle Baghdad before the aerial bombardment begins. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A331-2003Feb12?language=printer Special Operations Units Already in Iraq Weapons, Defectors, Communications Links Sought By Thomas E. Ricks Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, February 13, 2003; Page A01 U.S. Special Operations troops are already operating in various parts of Iraq, hunting for weapons sites, establishing a communications network and seeking potential defectors from Iraqi military units in what amounts to the initial ground phase of a war, U.S. defense officials and experts familiar with Pentagon planning said. The troops, comprising two Special Operations Task Forces with an undetermined number of personnel, have been in and out of Iraq for well over a month, said two military officials with direct knowledge of their activities. They are laying the groundwork for conventional U.S. forces that could quickly seize large portions of Iraq if President Bush gives a formal order to go to war, the officials said. The ground operation points to a Pentagon war plan that is shaping up to be dramatically different than the one carried out by the United States and its allies in the 1991 Persian Gulf War. Instead of beginning with a massive aerial bombardment, the plan envisions a series of preliminary ground actions to seize Iraqi territory and effectively encircle Baghdad before a large-scale air campaign hits the capital, defense officials and analysts said. It's possible that ground movements could come in and occupy large portions of Iraq almost unimpeded, said one person familiar with Pentagon planning. In northern Iraq, the source said, we might get to the outskirts of Tikrit without firing a shot. Tikrit, a city north of Baghdad, is Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's ancestral home and a major base of his power. Army Gen. Tommy R. Franks, the U.S. commander for the Middle East, is scheduled to go to the White House today for a review of his war plans with Bush. Franks is expected to depart soon afterward to Qatar, where his Central Command has established its regional headquarters for an attack on Iraq. The buildup of U.S. forces in the Persian Gulf region continues, even as the Bush administration pursues last-minute diplomacy to win support for war at the United Nations. The Pentagon announced the activation of nearly 40,000 more reservists yesterday, bringing the total to more than 150,000, the highest number since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. There are more than 135,000 U.S. troops in the vicinity of Iraq, and that is expected to grow by next week to 150,000 -- the number cited by military planners as the minimum required to launch a full-scale assault. Military officials familiar with the war plan say it is possible that a fairly substantial ground operation could take place not after the air campaign, as in the Gulf War, but either before or simultaneously with it. The Special Operations forces operating in Iraq have several distinct missions. Some are establishing relations with opposition groups and setting up airstrips into which U.S. forces could be flown, the officials said. Others are focused on preventing Iraq from launching missiles or drone aircraft against Israel. Those troops are believed to move in and out of Iraq from neighboring countries. In addition to the ground operations, a small-scale air war against Iraq also continues. U.S. and British aircraft patrolling no-fly zones in northern and southern Iraq have conducted airstrikes several times a week for months, hitting antiaircraft sites, military communications lines and other government facilities. On Tuesday, U.S. warplanes dropped more than a dozen bombs on a medium-range missile launcher system in southern Iraq. Yesterday, they returned to bomb the radar system for that launcher. A psychological operations campaign also has been underway, with leaflets and broadcasts preparing Iraqis for military action, telling them, among other things, that coalition forces do not wish to harm the noble people of Iraq. The strategic war has already begun, said
RE: [biofuel] good oil crops for England
I don't think of chokecherries as bearing much. The blossoms are one of the lovliest scents in the world. Truly exquisite. Kirk -Original Message- From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 9:50 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England Speaking of oil palms, how about those oil palms of the northchokecherries Tests have shown that a car can run for about 7,000 kilometres on a hectare of wheat converted into ethanol, 14,000 km on canola-based biodiesel and 30,000 km on a hectare of chokecherries. http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Pages/grain/news/newsarchive/ 02igqinews/020926igqinews4.html Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca On Monday, February 17, 2003, at 07:59 PM, Steve Spence wrote: more like 39 gallons per acre. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html not even oil palms produce 1000 gallons / acre. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 8:51 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England hemp is also good, oil yield approx 1000 gal/acre dD biofuel@yahoogroups.com wrote: Areind of mine is a farmer in the home counties of England and is interested in what alternative crops he could grow to produce oil to power his tractors etc, is rape the most viable etc,and what sort of machinery would be needed to extract the oil, and what sort of oil yield could he expect per acre? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.454 / Virus Database: 253 - Release Date: 2/10/2003 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Hog Snot!!!
Greg, Taking your previously condemnatory responses in hand with your in great part butter my bread on all sides response issued below on the same subject, It's rather difficult to see the benefit of consuming much more time playing hide and seek with your perspectives on civil disobedience. On the one hand you issue terse condemnation against dirt worshipin', bunny lovin' tree huggers and circumstances of which you are largely unaware, yet on the other hand you state that it may be necessary for you to conduct an act of civil disobedience in the future as well - not okay with Greg on the one hand but okay with Greg if it's his own hand. Where by your previous and present expressions you have equated civil disobedience with terrorism, you now qualify civil disobedience as occasionally being acceptable, even when in the radical extreme such as John Brown. The extremisms expressed in your views are a bit incongruent. By your standards, any activist who does not have legal standing in a judicial matter is one who has jumped on the bandwagon - an activity that you again are disdainful of. By your standards, Thoreau should have filed suit against the poll tax and waited years for a ruling, even when the tax was but a vehicle of his protest, not specifically what he was protesting. Attempting to establish a standard where people who haven't done the work should have no right to their activism is not only preposterous but once again a highly opinionated and overly presumptive judgement. Only a select few have the right to enact civil disobedience? And would it be you who is just the individual capable of determining exactly who is and who is not acceptable to participate in such a manner - on any matter? Two things that I find lacking in your expressions: 1) a lack of understanding of critical mass, which seldom to never happens in the nice, tidy and ever so orderly fashion that you would prefer and 2) a largely void understanding of the disparity between our judicial process, both its time lines and its metering of justice, and the natural world that you reside in. Ecosystems and human beings don't just get up out of their chair beyond the dais and casually resume their previous existence after a judge makes a pronouncement, least of all if they've been devastated, destroyed or compromised in advance of or throughout the same legal process. And while you may expect that the rest of the world should simply wait politely and quietly for the pen of a judge, legislator or policy chief to sway in one direction or another, your expectations are exaggerated and unrealistic in light of the inequities, improprieties, injustices and other indiscriminate spoilage that may be effected both prior to and after that same pen having been taken up. Perhaps most telling of all is your following perception. If any activists, by breaking the law, draw law enforcement away from anti-terrorist activities, then yes indeed, they are supporting terrorism. They may not be directly supporting terrorism, but, they are supporting it none the less. So inequity and injustice should only be met with a pen, wielded by appointed judges - as anything beyond that which draws a single breath of effort from law enforcement is supporting terrorism? Yet the purveyors of government overthrows, collusive corporate/political/military coups, general armament, mayhem, distraction, destruction and disregard for life in general are expected to be viewed as the right-hand avenging angels of God almighty and securers of the peace? And the extremisms and tyrannies of such economically and politically inclined despots should only be met with the paper of legal challenge as well - as all else is terrorism and support of terrorism? No. I don't believe we are addressing the same realities. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 3:44 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Hog Snot!!! - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 23:22 Subject: Hog Snot!!! was Re: Torture Tactics - Yes, in America was Re: [biofuel] Re: The oil in Iraq Greg, First off, I would hazard to guess that you haven't particulary versed yourself on the Headwaters battles of either yor or present, nor how the ever so precious legal recourses have been and are being exhausted, with the courts peculiarly siding predominantly with the perverted notion that somehow the consequences of enacting the full dimension of personal property rights don't extend beyond a property line onto the property and into the rights of others. It depends on the action, and in many cases the law of the land. What may be the right and legal thing to do in one place, may be the right and illegal thing to do elsewere, or for that matter the wrong but still legal in still
Re: [biofuel] Environment-friendly fuel for Indian railways
Jatropha seeds are mainly utilized for their medicinal properties in India. It is also commonly referred to as 'purging nut'. The latex, oil, twigs, wood and leaves are all used externally for healing wounds, to stop bleeding, to treat rheumatism, skin diseases, leprosy, etc. The manure that is referred here, is the seed cake which is rich in nitrogen and phosphorus. So, apart from using the non-edible oil for producing biodiesel, the other parts of Jatropha can also be used to a very great extent. Likewise, the oil crop which I'm working on (Mahua - Madhuca indica) is also a non-edible variety and possesses similar properties. Another advantage is that, such oil crops can be easily cultivated on arid and semi-arid regions. Kavitha. I cross-posted a message on jatropha in India from A.D. Karve a couple of months ago, from the Stoves list at Crest: I have conducted field experiments on both castor and Jatropha. I had already mentioned in a previous E-mail, that Jatropha was tested rather widely in India and was given up because it was not found to be as high yielding as the traditional oil crops in India. I do not know how it behaves in other countries, but under our agroclimatic and edaphic conditions, Jatropha produces much more vegetative matter than fruits. At harvest, one has to search for the occasional fruit hidden behind all the foliage that this plant produces. It is found all over India as a wild plant. India has some 25 uncultivated species of trees that yield non-edible oil. The seed of the wild trees is collected by villagers and sold to merchants attending the weekly village markets, but no farmer would ever think of growing them as a crop, because all of them are lower yielding than the cultivated oil plants such as peanut, soybean, sunflower, safflower, sesame, various mustards and rapes, coconut, etc. Among the seasonal oilseeds, hybrid castor is the highest yielding (2.5 tonnes oil per ha), but it is not an edible oil. The highest yield of edible oil, also about 2.5 tonnes per ha, is obtained from coconut. Oil palm, which yields 6 tonnes of oil per hectare in Malaysia, was tested and given up as low yielding under Indian conditions. Yours A.D.Karve http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=17993list=BIOFUEL I'll say it again - many factors are more important than claimed high yields, especially local conditions. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hi Murdoch, I think you are on the right track here. I would be interested in more info on the jatropha seed. Plenty of into in the archives search for jatropha (no quotes): http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuels-biz Keith The glycerine is typically used for soaps, but has many industrial uses. I'd be interested if it could be used for a fuel cell. That would be great. Where does the 300 kg manure come from? Is the jatropha seed used for cattle feed in India? The traditional ag uses for manure reduces the need for chemical fertilizers, so that may be the best use. A secondary use would be to ferment it into biogas. Tim Murphy [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Original Message -- To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com From: murdoch [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:22:24 -0800 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Environment-friendly fuel for Indian railways Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com About 400 kg of Jatropha seed can yield 100 kg oil, which after blending with methanol or alcohol would give 100 kg bio-diesel, 10 kg glycerine and 300 kg manure. In addition it creates large-scale employment. I wonder as to possible different uses for glycerine and manure. I don't know anything about it. Could glycerine be used in a fuel cell? Could manure be dried and burned in a boiler or generator (not to exclude it from traditional uses)? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Oil reserves and The oil in Iraq
Hi G.R. Maybe not in this particular thread, but there's quite a lot about it in the archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Search for methane hydrate (with quotes). Also coalbed methane. Best Keith Hi, I've watched this discussion for a while and there appears to be no reference to methane hydrates, which are well distributed throughout the world and are well positioned to readily serve the coastal U.S. population when developed. While there are a variety of data sources, I will leave compilation to those so inclined. In the meanwhile a reasonably non-contentious starting source might be http://www.fe.doe.gov/oil_gas/methanehydrates/ Rgds, G.R. Hakan Falk wrote: Greg, I am glad that you found the numbers interesting and that it obviously enhanced your view. snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Environment-friendly fuel for Indian railways
On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 09:03 AM, Keith Addison wrote: I'll say it again - many factors are more important than claimed high yields, especially local conditions. I had a good example of that last growing season. I raised two varieties of mustard -- white (AKA yellow, Brassica hirta), and brown (AKA oriental, B. juncea). The brown was supposed to be much higher yielding, both per acre and per plant. Unfortunately, it got horribly infested with aphids and powdery mildew, while the hirta six feet away were nearly free of both. Disease and pest resistance may be much higher in a supposedly lower- yielding species.-K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Behind the Great Divide
A bit weak, especially for Krugman... but it's a start, maybe about the maximum-sized bite the average cable-viewer could chew on without choking. Keith http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/18/opinion/18KRUG.html Behind the Great Divide By PAUL KRUGMAN There has been much speculation why Europe and the U.S. are suddenly at such odds. Is it about culture? About history? But I haven't seen much discussion of an obvious point: We have different views partly because we see different news. Let's back up. Many Americans now blame France for the chill in U.S.-European relations. There is even talk of boycotting French products. But France's attitude isn't exceptional. Last Saturday's huge demonstrations confirmed polls that show deep distrust of the Bush administration and skepticism about an Iraq war in all major European nations, whatever position their governments may take. In fact, the biggest demonstrations were in countries whose governments are supporting the Bush administration. There were big demonstrations in America too. But distrust of the U.S. overseas has reached such a level, even among our British allies, that a recent British poll ranked the U.S. as the world's most dangerous nation - ahead of North Korea and Iraq. So why don't other countries see the world the way we do? News coverage is a large part of the answer. Eric Alterman's new book, What Liberal Media? doesn't stress international comparisons, but the difference between the news reports Americans and Europeans see is a stark demonstration of his point. At least compared with their foreign counterparts, the liberal U.S. media are strikingly conservative - and in this case hawkish. I'm not mainly talking about the print media. There are differences, but the major national newspapers in the U.S. and the U.K. at least seem to be describing the same reality. Most people, though, get their news from TV - and there the difference is immense. The coverage of Saturday's antiwar rallies was a reminder of the extent to which U.S. cable news, in particular, seems to be reporting about a different planet than the one covered by foreign media. What would someone watching cable news have seen? On Saturday, news anchors on Fox described the demonstrators in New York as the usual protesters or serial protesters. CNN wasn't quite so dismissive, but on Sunday morning the headline on the network's Web site read Antiwar rallies delight Iraq, and the accompanying picture showed marchers in Baghdad, not London or New York. This wasn't at all the way the rest of the world's media reported Saturday's events, but it wasn't out of character. For months both major U.S. cable news networks have acted as if the decision to invade Iraq has already been made, and have in effect seen it as their job to prepare the American public for the coming war. So it's not surprising that the target audience is a bit blurry about the distinction between the Iraqi regime and Al Qaeda. Surveys show that a majority of Americans think that some or all of the Sept. 11 hijackers were Iraqi, while many believe that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11, a claim even the Bush administration has never made. And since many Americans think that the need for a war against Saddam is obvious, they think that Europeans who won't go along are cowards. Europeans, who don't see the same things on TV, are far more inclined to wonder why Iraq - rather than North Korea, or for that matter Al Qaeda - has become the focus of U.S. policy. That's why so many of them question American motives, suspecting that it's all about oil or that the administration is simply picking on a convenient enemy it knows it can defeat. They don't see opposition to an Iraq war as cowardice; they see it as courage, a matter of standing up to the bullying Bush administration. There are two possible explanations for the great trans-Atlantic media divide. One is that European media have a pervasive anti-American bias that leads them to distort the news, even in countries like the U.K. where the leaders of both major parties are pro-Bush and support an attack on Iraq. The other is that some U.S. media outlets - operating in an environment in which anyone who questions the administration's foreign policy is accused of being unpatriotic - have taken it as their assignment to sell the war, not to present a mix of information that might call the justification for war into question. So which is it? I've reported, you decide. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Oil reserves and The oil in Iraq
Additionally, try this: http://nnytech.net/~archive2/index.php?keywords=methane+hydratelist=bio fuelbrowse=1 I apologize for such a long list of results, this is the beta website - I'll put it on my list of to-dos :) --- Martin Klingensmith infoarchive.net [archive.nnytech.net] nnytech.net -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 12:19 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Oil reserves and The oil in Iraq Hi G.R. Maybe not in this particular thread, but there's quite a lot about it in the archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Search for methane hydrate (with quotes). Also coalbed methane. Best Keith Hi, I've watched this discussion for a while and there appears to be no reference to methane hydrates, which are well distributed throughout the world and are well positioned to readily serve the coastal U.S. population when developed. While there are a variety of data sources, I will leave compilation to those so inclined. In the meanwhile a reasonably non-contentious starting source might be http://www.fe.doe.gov/oil_gas/methanehydrates/ Rgds, G.R. Hakan Falk wrote: Greg, I am glad that you found the numbers interesting and that it obviously enhanced your view. snip Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Dodge diesels...more coming soon?
http://www.car-truck.com/chryed/buzz/b111502.htm Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Oil reserves and The oil in Iraq
No one is sure if the hydrates can be harvested safely. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Gary Rempel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 10:25 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Oil reserves and The oil in Iraq Hi, I've watched this discussion for a while and there appears to be no reference to methane hydrates, which are well distributed throughout the world and are well positioned to readily serve the coastal U.S. population when developed. While there are a variety of data sources, I will leave compilation to those so inclined. In the meanwhile a reasonably non-contentious starting source might be http://www.fe.doe.gov/oil_gas/methanehydrates/ Rgds, G.R. Hakan Falk wrote: Greg, I am glad that you found the numbers interesting and that it obviously enhanced your view. Your stumbling block regarding the maps is nothing, compared when some Americans try to make maps of the world. The individual numbers are the most interesting anyway. Regarding known (proven) reserves, it is not much to say. Estimates are founded on geological data and some of the are made by economists. This explains the range of numbers. I call it speculations, since they vary between 2 to 4 times the known. We could make 3 or more groups out of them, but it does not really change the over all picture. I like your idea of known, estimates and wild speculations, but my point in the article was that it is really not serious to fight about if it is me, my children or my grandchildren that will suffer. I like to see future generations span more the 3 generations and ideally see a sustainable situation. When you deal with this figures and draw the consequences, it is ludicrous to say that it is not about oil. If you the see who are getting development contracts in Iraq and who is not getting them, it fits well with the groupings on the war issue. It is only Spain, who have tentative agreement with Iraq that is acting without logic. I am not surprised about that at all, but maybe they have been promised a larger stake from US/UK. During the late 60's and early 70's, it was many numbers flying around. The most serious analyses was Hubbert's presentation to the US Congress in mid 70's. Since I was very much involved in energy questions already then, I remember the important ones. It is quite possible that you had some doomsday prophets that was talking about 30 years, but I do not remember it. If they did, it was irrelevant anyway in the circles that I was working in. I can not take this as a serious argument, since I did not supported such estimates. Known oil reserves for 50 to 60 years was what we talked about and that was quite correct. We were also aware that that new discoveries would push that numbers forward. In that sense I would say that the numbers we discussed was maybe more optimistic than todays. Nuclear is a subject that I try to avoid, since it is a very infected area with many unqualified opinions. We were involved in designing of PA systems and in the control calculations of stress and fixations of piping in the two last built Nuclear Plants in Sweden. I am not in starch opposition to nuclear, but some of the plants built and operated today are outright dangerous. I would like to see the idea of low temperature mini reactors for hot water production for heating picked up again, it would be much safer and minimum of dangerous waste. As it is, fusion have a long way to go if it ever will be an alternative. Hakan At 12:26 AM 2/18/2003 -0700, you wrote: - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 18:53 Subject: [biofuel] Oil reserves and The oil in Iraq Puuh, sweat, sweat, Dear Greg, Good, I suppose that you must know your boolean algebra and the basis for computers to make this definition of multiplication and division. So we do not have to waste time on this as long as you do it right. I've always had a hard time with algebra (other than the basic algebra anyway), but, to me it just seams make sense. Obviously you need some help with the numbers and I will try to explain the issues as good as I can. To start with, the source which is generally regarded as comprehensive, interesting and quite accurate is at the following link, http://www.bp.com/downloads/1087/statistical_review.pdf Confusion time. On Pg. 4 they list Mexico with N. America, but, on Pg. 5, the map shows Mexico as being included with S. central America as far as the graphs. Which is correct? This cast doubt on the graphs on Pg. 8 and others that are based on the
Re: [biofuel] Behind the Great Divide
Hi Keith, Very weak I would say. I think that Bush got a couple of warning shots across his bow, Byrd's speech was one of them. I have never seen such a speech before, when US prepared for action. Normally the standard is 100% behind the president. As I said earlier, how can they solve post war democracy in Iraq? They must know that the anti US sentiment in the Arab world is so strong that it makes a pro US democratic regime almost impossible in any Arab country. The best they can hope for is a pro US dictatorship, supported by a strong military control and more shipments of weapons. But where to find or engineer that? At the moment US can not find a democratic pro American movement in the Middle East that have a chance to get a majority. If it is going to be a democracy that correlate with the majority of the people, it is going to be strong anti US movement. How can the Americans be so naive? America might win the battle, but the chances of loosing the war are immense. US own attitude polls in the area points to that between 60 to 80% of the population, depending on the country, have an anti US sentiment. Is that going to change with a war? It is going to be civilian casualties and do not forget that almost all soldiers have a family, like the American soldiers. In Iraq the soldiers are likely to be around 15-16 years old, because of the toll of the other wars, and the world opinion is not going to look at killing children as heroism. Ok guys, in true American tradition I am the target now, since I am the messenger. My own positive attitude to Americans and experiences does not count and my concerns that a friend is about to do a major mistake for the wrong reasons neither. Hakan At 02:41 AM 2/19/2003 +0900, you wrote: A bit weak, especially for Krugman... but it's a start, maybe about the maximum-sized bite the average cable-viewer could chew on without choking. Keith http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/18/opinion/18KRUG.html Behind the Great Divide By PAUL KRUGMAN There has been much speculation why Europe and the U.S. are suddenly at such odds. Is it about culture? About history? But I haven't seen much discussion of an obvious point: We have different views partly because we see different news. Let's back up. Many Americans now blame France for the chill in U.S.-European relations. There is even talk of boycotting French products. But France's attitude isn't exceptional. Last Saturday's huge demonstrations confirmed polls that show deep distrust of the Bush administration and skepticism about an Iraq war in all major European nations, whatever position their governments may take. In fact, the biggest demonstrations were in countries whose governments are supporting the Bush administration. There were big demonstrations in America too. But distrust of the U.S. overseas has reached such a level, even among our British allies, that a recent British poll ranked the U.S. as the world's most dangerous nation - ahead of North Korea and Iraq. So why don't other countries see the world the way we do? News coverage is a large part of the answer. Eric Alterman's new book, What Liberal Media? doesn't stress international comparisons, but the difference between the news reports Americans and Europeans see is a stark demonstration of his point. At least compared with their foreign counterparts, the liberal U.S. media are strikingly conservative - and in this case hawkish. I'm not mainly talking about the print media. There are differences, but the major national newspapers in the U.S. and the U.K. at least seem to be describing the same reality. Most people, though, get their news from TV - and there the difference is immense. The coverage of Saturday's antiwar rallies was a reminder of the extent to which U.S. cable news, in particular, seems to be reporting about a different planet than the one covered by foreign media. What would someone watching cable news have seen? On Saturday, news anchors on Fox described the demonstrators in New York as the usual protesters or serial protesters. CNN wasn't quite so dismissive, but on Sunday morning the headline on the network's Web site read Antiwar rallies delight Iraq, and the accompanying picture showed marchers in Baghdad, not London or New York. This wasn't at all the way the rest of the world's media reported Saturday's events, but it wasn't out of character. For months both major U.S. cable news networks have acted as if the decision to invade Iraq has already been made, and have in effect seen it as their job to prepare the American public for the coming war. So it's not surprising that the target audience is a bit blurry about the distinction between the Iraqi regime and Al Qaeda. Surveys show that a majority of Americans think that some or all of the Sept. 11 hijackers were Iraqi, while many believe that Saddam Hussein was involved in Sept. 11, a claim even the Bush administration has never made. And since many Americans think that the need
Re: [biofuel] Oil reserves and The oil in Iraq
Hi G.R. Ready for use technology? Safe shot? Otherwise a good idea for the uncertain future. Hakan At 08:25 AM 2/18/2003 -0700, you wrote: Hi, I've watched this discussion for a while and there appears to be no reference to methane hydrates, which are well distributed throughout the world and are well positioned to readily serve the coastal U.S. population when developed. While there are a variety of data sources, I will leave compilation to those so inclined. In the meanwhile a reasonably non-contentious starting source might be http://www.fe.doe.gov/oil_gas/methanehydrates/ Rgds, G.R. Hakan Falk wrote: Greg, I am glad that you found the numbers interesting and that it obviously enhanced your view. Your stumbling block regarding the maps is nothing, compared when some Americans try to make maps of the world. The individual numbers are the most interesting anyway. Regarding known (proven) reserves, it is not much to say. Estimates are founded on geological data and some of the are made by economists. This explains the range of numbers. I call it speculations, since they vary between 2 to 4 times the known. We could make 3 or more groups out of them, but it does not really change the over all picture. I like your idea of known, estimates and wild speculations, but my point in the article was that it is really not serious to fight about if it is me, my children or my grandchildren that will suffer. I like to see future generations span more the 3 generations and ideally see a sustainable situation. When you deal with this figures and draw the consequences, it is ludicrous to say that it is not about oil. If you the see who are getting development contracts in Iraq and who is not getting them, it fits well with the groupings on the war issue. It is only Spain, who have tentative agreement with Iraq that is acting without logic. I am not surprised about that at all, but maybe they have been promised a larger stake from US/UK. During the late 60's and early 70's, it was many numbers flying around. The most serious analyses was Hubbert's presentation to the US Congress in mid 70's. Since I was very much involved in energy questions already then, I remember the important ones. It is quite possible that you had some doomsday prophets that was talking about 30 years, but I do not remember it. If they did, it was irrelevant anyway in the circles that I was working in. I can not take this as a serious argument, since I did not supported such estimates. Known oil reserves for 50 to 60 years was what we talked about and that was quite correct. We were also aware that that new discoveries would push that numbers forward. In that sense I would say that the numbers we discussed was maybe more optimistic than todays. Nuclear is a subject that I try to avoid, since it is a very infected area with many unqualified opinions. We were involved in designing of PA systems and in the control calculations of stress and fixations of piping in the two last built Nuclear Plants in Sweden. I am not in starch opposition to nuclear, but some of the plants built and operated today are outright dangerous. I would like to see the idea of low temperature mini reactors for hot water production for heating picked up again, it would be much safer and minimum of dangerous waste. As it is, fusion have a long way to go if it ever will be an alternative. Hakan At 12:26 AM 2/18/2003 -0700, you wrote: - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 18:53 Subject: [biofuel] Oil reserves and The oil in Iraq Puuh, sweat, sweat, Dear Greg, Good, I suppose that you must know your boolean algebra and the basis for computers to make this definition of multiplication and division. So we do not have to waste time on this as long as you do it right. I've always had a hard time with algebra (other than the basic algebra anyway), but, to me it just seams make sense. Obviously you need some help with the numbers and I will try to explain the issues as good as I can. To start with, the source which is generally regarded as comprehensive, interesting and quite accurate is at the following link, http://www.bp.com/downloads/1087/statistical_review.pdf Confusion time. On Pg. 4 they list Mexico with N. America, but, on Pg. 5, the map shows Mexico as being included with S. central America as far as the graphs. Which is correct? This cast doubt on the graphs on Pg. 8 and others that are based on the information from Pgs. 4 5. I'm not being argumentative, just confused. I am kinda suprised by the map on Pg. 19, I would think that the U.S. would try and get more oil from Africa, it being closer, than from the middle east. To explain Known
RE: [biofuel] Engine Transplant
Ken: Also the automatic dodge transmission used on the Cummins diesel engine do not hold up. Look at ads on used dodge trucks with a diesel. Every truck with an automatic state rebuilt transmission. Watch for a little time, and you will also notice the problem. Harley -Original Message- From: Ken Riznyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 2:05 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Engine Transplant I have a 94 Dodge conversion van with a 318 gasoline engine. It has over 200,000 miles on it and I am thinking that I will need a new engine soon. Does anyone have any ideas on what would be a good diesel transplant? The Cummings diesel used in the Dodge Ram Pickup uses the same tranny but is much to big to fit into the small engine compartment in the van. Ken Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Chokecherries
Yes it was a new one to me as well, although there are certainly a very large number of plants, shrubs and trees worldwide that have a significant oil content in the seeds. It seems you should be able to ferment the pulp and produce ethanol, as any other fruit, but they do not mention it, not sure why. I think I'll check it out a little more. Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 10:40 AM, Steve Spence wrote: I wonder if you can also ferment the cherries. I was not aware the pits had oil potential. They grow almost everywhere. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 11:59 AM Subject: [biofuel] Chokecherries Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England That's oil, from the pits. Interesting agroforestry/windbreak/soil conservation opportunity, I'd think, especially for our Prairies. Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 04:06 AM, Steve Spence wrote: ethanol or oil? I'm assuming ethanol from chokecherries? Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 11:49 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England Speaking of oil palms, how about those oil palms of the northchokecherries Tests have shown that a car can run for about 7,000 kilometres on a hectare of wheat converted into ethanol, 14,000 km on canola-based biodiesel and 30,000 km on a hectare of chokecherries. http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Pages/grain/news/newsarchive/ 02igqinews/020926igqinews4.html Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] more on the rising cost of fuel
Joe: International engine is casting a 6 cylinder diesel engine for the Ford motor company. It is a cut down version of the 8 cylinder diesel engine now used in the F-250 and F-350 trucks. The new smaller version diesel is slated for the so called SUV vehicles. I was not told when they are to be released, but it is coming. Harley -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 6:42 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] more on the rising cost of fuel How many normal cars can you buy for the cost of one Chevy Suburban? Surely the fuel saving alone would pay for a smaller car. Depends on normal. I paid 18,000 dollars (US) for my 1999 Turbo diesel Suburban. I also run it on Biodiesel. Fuel savings? Even if it got 10 MPG instead of 22, I would still be saving in fuel costs. I make BD for about 40 cents per gallon, yes gallon not litre. Also, I am saving a waste product from going into a landfill, and reducing our dependence on foreign oil. In the US your normal car would be gasoline powered. There are very few diesel cars available here. Even at 25 or 30 MPG that smaller car still burns gasoline. Imported, non-renewable, green house gas producing fossil fuel. Sure, a VW TDI burning BD would be better, but I cannot fit my family into a Jetta. I only wish my wifes mini van were a diesel as well. Then we would not have to buy any gasoline at all. Maybe some day soon more diesels will be available in America. Mercedes is brining back the diesel in it's E class, Jeep is going to put a 2.8 TD in the Liberty next year. Then of course there is the Freightliner Sprinter (now also badged as the Dodge Sprinter), a HUGE van with a MB TD in it. I saw the Dodge display at the auto show in Detroit in January. There was a work van and passenger version of the Sprinter (10 passenger). I could stand upright in both of them. WOW. They're coming, just not soon enough for me. Blessings, Joe. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] FW: THE DOMESTIC SECURITY ENHANCEMENT ACT OF 2003/A PLAIN ANALYSIS
Can you believe? Sounds like Stalin. Kirk - Original Message - From: mom To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 10:19 AM Subject: THE DOMESTIC SECURITY ENHANCEMENT ACT OF 2003/A PLAIN ANALYSIS As you read this remember who the terrorists are here. If you have any doubt, pull up Morris Dees site ... THE DOMESTIC SECURITY ENHANCEMENT ACT OF 2003 A PLAIN ANALYSIS By Greg Kay I have broken the 33 page summary/analysis down, section by section, addressing the parts that might pertain to us, in plain English to make it easier to look up the parts of concern. This will make it easier to evaluate the whole bill, which can be read at http://www.public-i.org/dtaweb/report.asp? ReportID=502L1=10L2=10L3=0L4=0L5=0 . Please remember that the information here is ONLY from the analysis; the language of the bill itself will undoubtedly contain more surprises. There's some scary stuff here, folks! FISA, by the way, is another federal alphabet an acronym for Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. SECTION 101: All persons, including unaffiliated groups or individuals, who engage in international terrorism, will be designated a foreign power eliminating any rights that they might have. SECTION 102: Any person who engages in the legal collection (repealing the current requirement of the collection mode being illegal) of information that may be used by another country, including US reporters, could be deemed agents of a foreign power, even if the information was used or intended to be used as a standard news media. What information gathered here is not used in foreign news media? SECTION 103: This would extend the government's right to unfettered (Without FISA court approval) searches and taps for a period of 15 days after a declaration of war by congress to also be invoked after a Congressional authorization of the use of force or an attack, while SECTION 104 extends the term from 15 days to one year, and expands the scope of the surveillance. SECTION 105: This would make it easier for FISA collected information to be made available to law enforcement. SECTION 106: Gives immunity to agents who engage in searches without court approval. SECTION 107: Eliminates the tighter restrictions on conducting investigations against US citizens than against foreign nationals in the US. SECTION 109: Gives the FISA court the same powers as a regular court to force cooperation. SECTION 110: To prevent sun-setting of certain aspects of the USA Patriot Act. SECTION 111: Removing different rules between foreign nationals and US citizens in terrorism investigations. SECTION 122: Allows electronic surveillance and monitoring without a court order in `emergencies' and makes it easier to allow foreign law enforcement requests for investigations in the US to be carried out. SECTION 123: Extends tapping and surveillance and further minimizes judicial oversight and involvement. SECTION 124: Extends a single search's legality over all functions of multi-function devices. SECTION 125: Expands the types of crimes for which a federal judge in one district may issue a nationwide warrant valid in all areas. SECTION 126: Allow Federal agents to obtain anyone's credit report, consumer records, and other financial records on request, and prevent the reporting agency from revealing to their customer that their records had been accessed. SECTION 128: Allow the Justice Department, independent of a judge, to issue subpoenas. SECTION 129: Would make compliance with the above subpoenas and other requests for records mandatory, and would make refusal or disclosure of the demand a felony punishable by 5 years in prison. SECTION 201: Allows the government to hold people detained in the investigation of terrorism secretly and, apparently, indefinitely. SECTION 202: Limits the safety information presented to the public on the potential hazards of chemical spills, releases, etc. SECTION 203: Eliminates public release of the layout of government buildings. SECTION 204: Makes it easier for the government to present secret, classified information to the court alone. SECTION 205: Eliminates tax assessments on the value of private security systems and measures used by federal employees and officials for their protection. No such exemption extends to anyone else. SECTION 206: Would impose on counsel contacted by those subpoenaed by a Grand Jury the same demand or secrecy that is imposed on those who are actually subpoenaed. SECTION 302: Would establish a DNA database, the identifying information to be taken from the following people: persons SUSPECTED of conspiring, attempting, or engaging in terrorism; enemy combatants and POW's; persons suspected of being members of a terrorist organization; aliens engaged in activity that endangers national security. SECTION 303: Would require all law enforcement agencies to provide the above identifying data to the attorney general, would allow him to establish a database and either
Re: [biofuel] PBS - The War Behind Closed Doors
Darn it!! That's 2003, 2003. On Feb. 20, 2003 The War Behind Closed Doors examines the hidden story of what is really driving the Bush administration to war with Iraq. Are the publicly reported reasons - Saddam's weapons of mass destruction and U.S. strategic interests in the Middle East - only masking the real reason for war? FRONTLINE unravels a story known only to Washington insiders. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/ Find Your Local [USA] Television Schedule Enter your zip code -OR- Select a State or Territory http://www.pbs.org/whatson/index.html ___ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] FW: THE DOMESTIC SECURITY ENHANCEMENT ACT OF 2003/A PLAIN ANALYSIS
Reminds me of 15 years ago or so when Reagan first started going on about Terrorists. I thought: for one thing, how are we defining them? Now it Looks like that's pretty much up to Mssrs. Fleischer, Card, Ashcroft, et. al., depending on their mood that day. Or perhaps I should use the German Herr instead of the French Mssrs. The drug property seizure laws were the first that ever really made me think strongly about leaving this country. But this this... well, has it been enacted or is it just under consideration? I saw the Democratic Presidential Candidates holding forth on C-Span last night. One of them looked ok. I turned it off when another started boring me. Even if a good one is elected, I fear it will be too late. On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:10:46 -0700, you wrote: Can you believe? Sounds like Stalin. Kirk - Original Message - From: mom To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 10:19 AM Subject: THE DOMESTIC SECURITY ENHANCEMENT ACT OF 2003/A PLAIN ANALYSIS As you read this remember who the terrorists are here. If you have any doubt, pull up Morris Dees site ... THE DOMESTIC SECURITY ENHANCEMENT ACT OF 2003 A PLAIN ANALYSIS By Greg Kay I have broken the 33 page summary/analysis down, section by section, addressing the parts that might pertain to us, in plain English to make it easier to look up the parts of concern. This will make it easier to evaluate the whole bill, which can be read at http://www.public-i.org/dtaweb/report.asp? ReportID=502L1=10L2=10L3=0L4=0L5=0 . Please remember that the information here is ONLY from the analysis; the language of the bill itself will undoubtedly contain more surprises. There's some scary stuff here, folks! FISA, by the way, is another federal alphabet an acronym for Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. SECTION 101: All persons, including unaffiliated groups or individuals, who engage in international terrorism, will be designated a foreign power eliminating any rights that they might have. SECTION 102: Any person who engages in the legal collection (repealing the current requirement of the collection mode being illegal) of information that may be used by another country, including US reporters, could be deemed agents of a foreign power, even if the information was used or intended to be used as a standard news media. What information gathered here is not used in foreign news media? SECTION 103: This would extend the government's right to unfettered (Without FISA court approval) searches and taps for a period of 15 days after a declaration of war by congress to also be invoked after a Congressional authorization of the use of force or an attack, while SECTION 104 extends the term from 15 days to one year, and expands the scope of the surveillance. SECTION 105: This would make it easier for FISA collected information to be made available to law enforcement. SECTION 106: Gives immunity to agents who engage in searches without court approval. SECTION 107: Eliminates the tighter restrictions on conducting investigations against US citizens than against foreign nationals in the US. SECTION 109: Gives the FISA court the same powers as a regular court to force cooperation. SECTION 110: To prevent sun-setting of certain aspects of the USA Patriot Act. SECTION 111: Removing different rules between foreign nationals and US citizens in terrorism investigations. SECTION 122: Allows electronic surveillance and monitoring without a court order in `emergencies' and makes it easier to allow foreign law enforcement requests for investigations in the US to be carried out. SECTION 123: Extends tapping and surveillance and further minimizes judicial oversight and involvement. SECTION 124: Extends a single search's legality over all functions of multi-function devices. SECTION 125: Expands the types of crimes for which a federal judge in one district may issue a nationwide warrant valid in all areas. SECTION 126: Allow Federal agents to obtain anyone's credit report, consumer records, and other financial records on request, and prevent the reporting agency from revealing to their customer that their records had been accessed. SECTION 128: Allow the Justice Department, independent of a judge, to issue subpoenas. SECTION 129: Would make compliance with the above subpoenas and other requests for records mandatory, and would make refusal or disclosure of the demand a felony punishable by 5 years in prison. SECTION 201: Allows the government to hold people detained in the investigation of terrorism secretly and, apparently, indefinitely. SECTION 202: Limits the safety information presented to the public on the potential hazards of chemical spills, releases, etc. SECTION 203: Eliminates public release of the layout of government buildings. SECTION 204: Makes it easier for the government to present secret, classified information to the court alone. SECTION 205: Eliminates tax assessments on the value of private security
RE: [biofuel] FW: THE DOMESTIC SECURITY ENHANCEMENT ACT OF 2003/A PLAIN ANALYSIS
Submitted but not passed yet as I understand. The first one went through pretty easily. :( -Original Message- From: murdoch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 1:29 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] FW: THE DOMESTIC SECURITY ENHANCEMENT ACT OF 2003/A PLAIN ANALYSIS Reminds me of 15 years ago or so when Reagan first started going on about Terrorists. I thought: for one thing, how are we defining them? Now it Looks like that's pretty much up to Mssrs. Fleischer, Card, Ashcroft, et. al., depending on their mood that day. Or perhaps I should use the German Herr instead of the French Mssrs. The drug property seizure laws were the first that ever really made me think strongly about leaving this country. But this this... well, has it been enacted or is it just under consideration? I saw the Democratic Presidential Candidates holding forth on C-Span last night. One of them looked ok. I turned it off when another started boring me. Even if a good one is elected, I fear it will be too late. On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:10:46 -0700, you wrote: Can you believe? Sounds like Stalin. Kirk - Original Message - From: mom To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 10:19 AM Subject: THE DOMESTIC SECURITY ENHANCEMENT ACT OF 2003/A PLAIN ANALYSIS As you read this remember who the terrorists are here. If you have any doubt, pull up Morris Dees site ... THE DOMESTIC SECURITY ENHANCEMENT ACT OF 2003 A PLAIN ANALYSIS By Greg Kay I have broken the 33 page summary/analysis down, section by section, addressing the parts that might pertain to us, in plain English to make it easier to look up the parts of concern. This will make it easier to evaluate the whole bill, which can be read at http://www.public-i.org/dtaweb/report.asp? ReportID=502L1=10L2=10L3=0L4=0L5=0 . Please remember that the information here is ONLY from the analysis; the language of the bill itself will undoubtedly contain more surprises. There's some scary stuff here, folks! FISA, by the way, is another federal alphabet an acronym for Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. SECTION 101: All persons, including unaffiliated groups or individuals, who engage in international terrorism, will be designated a foreign power eliminating any rights that they might have. SECTION 102: Any person who engages in the legal collection (repealing the current requirement of the collection mode being illegal) of information that may be used by another country, including US reporters, could be deemed agents of a foreign power, even if the information was used or intended to be used as a standard news media. What information gathered here is not used in foreign news media? SECTION 103: This would extend the government's right to unfettered (Without FISA court approval) searches and taps for a period of 15 days after a declaration of war by congress to also be invoked after a Congressional authorization of the use of force or an attack, while SECTION 104 extends the term from 15 days to one year, and expands the scope of the surveillance. SECTION 105: This would make it easier for FISA collected information to be made available to law enforcement. SECTION 106: Gives immunity to agents who engage in searches without court approval. SECTION 107: Eliminates the tighter restrictions on conducting investigations against US citizens than against foreign nationals in the US. SECTION 109: Gives the FISA court the same powers as a regular court to force cooperation. SECTION 110: To prevent sun-setting of certain aspects of the USA Patriot Act. SECTION 111: Removing different rules between foreign nationals and US citizens in terrorism investigations. SECTION 122: Allows electronic surveillance and monitoring without a court order in `emergencies' and makes it easier to allow foreign law enforcement requests for investigations in the US to be carried out. SECTION 123: Extends tapping and surveillance and further minimizes judicial oversight and involvement. SECTION 124: Extends a single search's legality over all functions of multi-function devices. SECTION 125: Expands the types of crimes for which a federal judge in one district may issue a nationwide warrant valid in all areas. SECTION 126: Allow Federal agents to obtain anyone's credit report, consumer records, and other financial records on request, and prevent the reporting agency from revealing to their customer that their records had been accessed. SECTION 128: Allow the Justice Department, independent of a judge, to issue subpoenas. SECTION 129: Would make compliance with the above subpoenas and other requests for records mandatory, and would make refusal or disclosure of the demand a felony punishable by 5 years in prison. SECTION 201: Allows the government to hold people detained in the investigation of terrorism secretly and, apparently, indefinitely. SECTION 202: Limits the safety information presented to the public on the
[biofuel] Rsum of Experiments on Variola by Dr. Charles Camp bell, M.D.
Excuse the off topic but when I read this I was truly amazed. http://www.reformation.org/variola.html Kirk Also see http://www.whale.to/a/campbell2.html Rsum of Experiments on Variola. By CHARLES A. R. CAMPBELL, M. D. San Antonio, Texas. Mr. President and Members of the Bexar County Medical Society: There must be some motive for a member of the same professional household to keep in the background such a work as I am about to present for your consideration this evening. This motive is that I hoped some avenue might present itself permitting me to continue the work to the point of carrying out further experiments to such a degree of scientific certainty as would place it beyond the possibility of contradiction. It was my ambition to go into Mexico, where, with knowledge of the language and customs of the people, I could have obtained the cooperation of the powers that be, and of the medical profession, and could there have completed the investigation. There never was a doubt in mind that I could have had this cooperation, as it was freely offered to me from that country, but the lack of finance was the insuperable barrier. As it is now my intention to publish this work, though I do not know when or where, I desire out of respect to my home professional brothers and home society to present it to you first. The work of the Eradication of Malaria by the Cultivation of Bats, The Mosquitoes' Natural Enemy and Destroyer, on which I have been engaged, as you are all aware, for the past twenty years, is more important and far-reaching in its benefits to mankind than this work, and I purpose for the rest of my days to concentrate all of my energies, spare time, and money on the continued studies of that most benevolent, though misunderstood creature, the common bat. I desire to return thanks before this Society to my good friend, Dr. W. L. Barker, who, appreciating my endeavors, had me placed in charge of the Pest House, where I found opportunities of pursuing this research on smallpox, which I could not have had without his kindly intervention. I also owe my thanks to Mr. Thomas Patino, my head nurse, who is a highly valued employee and most kind and sympathetic to the unfortunates under his care. The papers in the order of their presentation are, Resume of Experiments on Variola, My Observations of Bed Bugs, and Dr. John Watts' valuable work and observations on this disease, which he presents under the caption of Eradication of Smallpox without Vaccination or Disinfection. The author made Dr. Watts thoroughly acquainted with the result of his smallpox-bedbug investigation, on account of the Doctor's going to locate in Mexico, where the disease is so common, and requested him to continue the work in that country, on the lines indicated in the above mentioned papers. How well he carried on the investigation his paper will tell. Some years ago, while traveling in Mexico, I learned that the Mexican mothers of the lower classes find a great deal of consolation when their children have had the small pox. They regard it as inevitable; and, in order to get through with this trouble as soon as possible, they place the well children upon the same bed as the one having the smallpox, so that they may become infected with the disease. I was also told by these lowly people that those who sleep on the outside of the houses, upon nothing more, perhaps, than a sheep's skin or raw hide cot or bed, usually escape the disease -- hence the mother places the children who are well upon the same bed with the sick ones. This information was kept in mind by me until I had occasion to see a few cases in the City of San Antonio, Texas. In considering this malady, I quickly became impressed with two distinctive peculiarities of it, viz: Its being a disease of the winter and of the coldest climates, and that, as a rule, it is confined to the lower or filthy classes. Having followed very closely the current literature concerning the brilliant work done by Drs. Reed, Carroll, and Agramonte in yellow fever, the above peculiarities caused me hypothetically to ascribe to the bedbug the quality of being the diffusing agent of variola. (As to the bedbug's power of resistance to intense cold, water, and starvation, see my Observation on Bedbugs.) Assuming that bedbugs are the only diffusing agents of this loathsome disease, then our present knowledge of its being air-borne, or of its being transmitted by fomites, must be all wrong, therefore the principal work here mentioned is the demonstration of its non-contagiousness by means of clothing, bedding, hangings --in short, fomites. I then began to experiment with this disease directly by contact and to expose some person to it who had not had it. I selected as this person one whose movements I could at all times control and understand, and, therefore, I chose myself. As even the air itself, without contact, is considered sufficient to convey this disease, and touching the clothes
[biofuel] FW: Iowa Grain Quality Initiative
Comments? Kirk -Original Message- From: Andrew White Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 4:31 PM To: kirk Subject: Re: Iowa Grain Quality Initiative Why the hell dont the Canadian simply add a few percent castor oil to their diesel as in addition to having a good high vaporisation temperature it also behaves well at low temperatures? - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Aergo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 4:14 PM Subject: Iowa Grain Quality Initiative Chokecherries? I know people make syrup and wine from them but I don't think of them as a heavy yielding crop. Kirk http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Pages/grain/news/newsarchive/02igqinews/020 926igqinews4.html September 26, 2002 Biofuel touted as remedy for poor Canadian diesel By Sean Pratt Source: The Western Producer Canada has poor quality winter diesel but that's not necessarily a bad thing for farmers, says an Agriculture Canada researcher. It presents a prime opportunity for canola-based fuel additives, Martin Reaney told the Agricultural Biotechnology International Conference 2002, a Saskatoon event that drew 400 delegates from 27 countries. During his presentation, the scientist showed an overhead comparing lubricity levels of diesel fuels manufactured in different countries around the world. Canada's winter diesel was the worst of the lot by a country mile. This is not something to be proud of, said Reaney. Poor lubricity causes wear in the top rings of the pistons on a diesel engine. Research has shown that problem can be resolved by adding one percent canola-based biodiesel to existing diesel fuels. The source of the problem with Canadian winter diesel is twofold. Molecules in the fuel have to be broken up so they won't freeze in the tank during harsh cold, and that results in lower viscosity and less lubrication. That problem has been exacerbated by a move to lower sulfur content, which made the fuel lighter so it doesn't protect the engine as well. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] From the NY times
The title says it all: EPA finds trucks, SUVs among most smog-producing vehicles [this is news, just like tobacco being addictive] --- Martin Klingensmith infoarchive.net [archive.nnytech.net] nnytech.net [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Chokecherries
Not so much out here west. They are part of several Native American ceremony's. Sundance, Crying on the Hill, etc On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Steve Spence wrote: I wonder if you can also ferment the cherries. I was not aware the pits had oil potential. They grow almost everywhere. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 11:59 AM Subject: [biofuel] Chokecherries Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England That's oil, from the pits. Interesting agroforestry/windbreak/soil conservation opportunity, I'd think, especially for our Prairies. Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 04:06 AM, Steve Spence wrote: ethanol or oil? I'm assuming ethanol from chokecherries? Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 11:49 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England Speaking of oil palms, how about those oil palms of the northchokecherries Tests have shown that a car can run for about 7,000 kilometres on a hectare of wheat converted into ethanol, 14,000 km on canola-based biodiesel and 30,000 km on a hectare of chokecherries. http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Pages/grain/news/newsarchive/ 02igqinews/020926igqinews4.html Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mercedes vs. Volkswagon
I miss my trooper . :( On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, studio53 wrote: It's a good motor. I have the 86 Isuzu Trooper turbo diesel running on veg oil. Bulletproof and as heavy as the Titanic anchor. --- Jesse Parris | studio53 | 53 maitland rd | stamford, ct 06906 203.324.4371www.jesseparris.com/ - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Mercedes vs. Volkswagon hello again izusu I mark was a good car too with a diesel motor Kenny Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] FW: Iowa Grain Quality Initiative
We don't grow it here. Canola biodiesel at very low treat rate provides excellent lubricity function. The mustard and chokecherry are being looked into for good reasons - as high oil yield low input, drought resistant future crops that do not compete with food oils, for fuel use, not as lubricity additives alone. We can add 0.1% Canola methyl ester and get all the lubricity we need in our fuel, and it will work in near-Arctic conditions, no problem. See the research on our site on lubricity engine wear reductions, fuel economy improvements, etc. from use of 1% and less of Canola methyl ester. It's really quite impressive! So, we don't need castor oil. Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 03:56 PM, kirk wrote: Comments? Kirk -Original Message- From: Andrew White Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 4:31 PM To: kirk Subject: Re: Iowa Grain Quality Initiative Why the hell dont the Canadian simply add a few percent castor oil to their diesel as in addition to having a good high vaporisation temperature it also behaves well at low temperatures? - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Aergo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 4:14 PM Subject: Iowa Grain Quality Initiative Chokecherries? I know people make syrup and wine from them but I don't think of them as a heavy yielding crop. Kirk http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Pages/grain/news/newsarchive/ 02igqinews/020 926igqinews4.html September 26, 2002 Biofuel touted as remedy for poor Canadian diesel By Sean Pratt Source: The Western Producer Canada has poor quality winter diesel but that's not necessarily a bad thing for farmers, says an Agriculture Canada researcher. It presents a prime opportunity for canola-based fuel additives, Martin Reaney told the Agricultural Biotechnology International Conference 2002, a Saskatoon event that drew 400 delegates from 27 countries. During his presentation, the scientist showed an overhead comparing lubricity levels of diesel fuels manufactured in different countries around the world. Canada's winter diesel was the worst of the lot by a country mile. This is not something to be proud of, said Reaney. Poor lubricity causes wear in the top rings of the pistons on a diesel engine. Research has shown that problem can be resolved by adding one percent canola-based biodiesel to existing diesel fuels. The source of the problem with Canadian winter diesel is twofold. Molecules in the fuel have to be broken up so they won't freeze in the tank during harsh cold, and that results in lower viscosity and less lubrication. That problem has been exacerbated by a move to lower sulfur content, which made the fuel lighter so it doesn't protect the engine as well. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Troubled Times Slow Charge
This link will take you to a site that tells you how to charge a large deep cycle battery every two or three days without the use of a generator, solar panel, or even a hand crank. This technique uses static electricity to recharge batteries. There is a lot of good info at this site, spend some time reading about a lot of interesting subjects. Just click on The Hub at the bottom of the page. http://www.zetatalk.com/energy/tengx084.htm Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Latest from my Pal
Keith: I was using the 70 % rating that was being used by the US TV news media. I keep forgetting this site is world wide. The 70% was taken from poles done here in the USA. The TV news media did show the anti-war rallies in New York, and England, and France. The protests Anti-war, Anti-American, Anti-Bush. and Anti-anything is becoming Anti-Bush. My view as in the past is very Pro-Bush. He is day to night compared to Bill Clinton. Bush picks a point of view and sticks to it. Remember someone has to balance out, some of the Liberals. I am glad to hear that Jame's pal is British. I understand you are leaving political discussions on this site, but it is off subject. It is interesting when a Bio Diesel subject actually comes up. To answer your question dealing about feeling special, actually no. As an American, I don't feel special. As an American I feel lucky. The US is a great place to live. The American Society is far from perfect, but I believe it is better than most. $135 billion spent on PR, and advertising. I would consider the monies was used to sell products or services. Or are you saying that all that money was spent just to convince me that this is a great country. They did not need to do that on my behalf. Seriously, if I believed everything that is print on this site, about Bush. You must consider him the slime of the universe. He is better than Sadum. We know Sadum has already used chemical weapons on his own people. What do you think that he would not hesitation on using them on you, me or anybody else on this list? I don't believe that the American people are enlightened. I believe that most have become a TV zombies. Dumb down by the boob tube. Harley ( the toad, if it makes you feel better) -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 9:13 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] Latest from my Pal Cool, Yes I believe you are right. Somewhere around 70%. I very much doubt it - more like a minority, maybe not even a very big one. Eg (close your eyes and point anywhere), the anti-war protests: It was the wide array of people from all walks of life - high school students showing they cared about more than their own problems, soccer moms protesting for the first time, retired school teachers, professionals in suits, war veterans, parents who also brought their young children - that gave me the most hope. Bush can continue to ignore veteran activists and liberals like me. But he can't ignore the independent suburban voters, the kind who don't vote straight-ticket Republican or any other political party... I believe the people who came out and practiced their democratic rights on Saturday are more American than those who sat on their butts and criticized them. We must continue to display our flags with pride, showing we are patriots who care about more than the selfish, violent agenda pushed by Bush Inc... So where was this cesspit of knee-jerk anti-American left-wing iniquity, you might ask? ... one of the most right-wing regions of the world, the former home of George W. Bush and Dick Cheney and the fictional J.R. Ewing and many others who represent cold-hearted, selfish economic and political policies: Dallas, Texas. http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15197 Texans Turn Out Against War By Jackson Thoreau, AlterNet February 16, 2003 Most of us Americans know the difference between right / wrong, and good / bad. $100 billion a year spent on advertising in the US says otherwise, $35 billion a year spent by the PR industry in the US to twist reality on behalf of the rich and powerful says otherwise, intense and ongoing concentration of media ownership in the hands of powerful corporate interests (the major PR agency clients) says otherwise. Yet I agree with you - most Americans do know the difference betwen right and wrong, good and bad, in spite of all the spin - but they don't agree with you about the war. But say you're right, 70% of Americans agree with James's pal. How come it's just the opposite in virtually every other country, including your alleged ally Britain, including your other alleged ally Australia? - 70% and up against the war. Including Turkey (see the recent NATO fuss, if you didn't already). They're, what, plain wrong? But they're the vast world majority - uh, you believe in democracy, right? They're ill-informed then? Hah! James's (erstwhile) pal isn't American, he's English, now living in the US. What if he'd moved to Germany instead? Would he now be thinking just the same, do you think? Or would he be agreeing with the Germans? But I bet you just discounted what I said above about PR dollars. So what then - simply standing on US soil brings a penetrating enlightenment all its own that just doesn't happen elsewhere? Keith And 99 %
RE: [biofuel] Chokecherries
You cook them and squeeze the juice out. You can make wine with that or a very nice pancake syrup. The wine has a tendency to lay you low. In moderation only if you know what is good for you. Kirk -Original Message- From: James Slayden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 5:41 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Chokecherries Not so much out here west. They are part of several Native American ceremony's. Sundance, Crying on the Hill, etc On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Steve Spence wrote: I wonder if you can also ferment the cherries. I was not aware the pits had oil potential. They grow almost everywhere. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Troubled Times Slow Charge
Well Keith, I got a whole diferent view of that web site. I just spent a couple of hours there but, I didn't click on any of the Zeta info, because I read that stuff years ago. What I saw was a group of young guys, probably a lot like you and me at that age, who are not running around screaming that the sky is falling but, are trying to put their thinking caps on now, so they will have accumulated the knowledge necessary to rebuild after a cataclysmic event. Granted these guys are associating with the scam artists at Zeta but, I didn't see anything really wrong with their message except that Planet X is do to visit in the next 75 days or so. I'm not sure why I spend 2 or 3 hours almost everyday reading about all kinds of strange subjects but, something tells me to keep searching for any info that may be of help when the shit hits the fan. I'm not sure if the boogie man is economic collapse, WWIII, NWO, a pole shift, major earthquakes, or whatever but, I am convinced that it is time to accumlate as much knowledge as possible, so my kids have as good a chance at a decent life as I did. I admit to spending too much time looking at free energy sites but, I am convinced that one day humans will overcome their lack of a good clean fuel that will take them to the stars, and that means over unity. I don't see free energy as much different than folks felt about Thomas Edison or the Wright Bros., before they proved their theories were fact. And some day real soon all of the nay sayers will change their tune and will never again be so unwilling to try and give someone the benefit of the doubt on controversial subjects. I know that people like Dennis Lee have done untold harm with their scams but, I'm confident that most of these folks are trying to whip ass on the power brokers just like the rest of us. And I know that there have always been doomsayers predicting the end of civilization but, there have never been so many warning signs of civic collapse as we have had lately. kris --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: krisbook wrote: This link will take you to a site that tells you how to charge a large deep cycle battery every two or three days without the use of a generator, solar panel, or even a hand crank. This technique uses static electricity to recharge batteries. Hm, maybe. There is a lot of good info at this site, spend some time reading about a lot of interesting subjects. Just click on The Hub at the bottom of the page. http://www.zetatalk.com/energy/tengx084.htm Um... Troubled Times believes that a world-wide cataclysm, of massive proportions, will strike the Earth in the year 2003. The cause of this natural event will be a monster planet, known to the ancients but as yet undiscovered by modern man, which will pass very near the earth as part of its normal 3,600 year orbit around the sun. We've had it here before Kris - the pole shift etc. Good info it ain't. Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
