Re: [Biofuel] Jelled ethanol with charcoal and cellulose

[Pannir P.V]

 Greeting to our  dynamic  leader of our list , Keith 
  
 Thank you for your  quick reply  

Because we have used vegetable oil , all going here as waste, we are
interested in this to make solid  gel fuel.How to do  so  is the real
question .Some one can give new ideas as our group is really very big 
and have  expert in this field.
   Cellulose powder can absorb  oil  and hence can help  to be mixed
with the gel.solid that have been already  made  as solid  mixing is
not the problems, but the .liquid mixing is the problems.
   Eventhough solubility of vegetable oil is  good , this may or may
not  allow the gel formation .Only practical experiments can do the
help.

sd
Pannir Selvam 

  
 

On 4/29/05, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Greetings Pannir
> 
> > Greeting Keith
> >
> >  Is it possivel to make   use  in a  considerable small amout of  the
> >used   waste cooked  vegetable  oil   to make  jellified  ethanol fuel
> >sd
> >PannirSelvam
> 
> How so? If you mix them you just get a more viscous liquid mixture,
> not a gel, and it wouldn't burn as well, lower flashpoint, more oily
> flame. Sorry, Pan, I think I don't quite understand your question.
> Could you explain please?
> 
> If I remember correctly from some tests we did a couple of years ago,
> up to about 22% ethanol will mix with vegetable oil, I'm not sure how
> much oil will mix in ethanol. Hydrogenated oil would just liquify,
> wouldn't it?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> >On 4/27/05, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Thankyou Hoagy, that's great! Chalk and vinegar, sunshine and moonshine.
> > >
> > > Keith
> > >
> > >
> > > > Some other jelled gelled alcohol ideas --
> > > >
> > > > Zen Gelled Alcohol Stoves - Sterno-like Stoves
> > > > Jelled/Gelled Alcohol
> > > > http://zenstoves.net/Sterno.htm
> > > > Extreme do it yourselfers can make their own gelled fuel
> > > > at home with alcohol and calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4).
> > > > Either methanol or ethanol can be used for fuel.
> > > > Calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4) can be purchased or made
> > > > by slowly dissolving calcium carbonate (eggshells or chalk)
> > > > in vinegar, filtering, and allowing to dry.
> > > > If you are new to chemistry take a look at
> > > > this high school science project page.
> > > >
> > > > Chemical Reactions and Solid Fuel
> > > >
> > > >http://www.montvilleschools.org/highschool/science/edorff/chemistry/fu
> > > >elslab.htm
> > > > A solid camping fuel like Sterno™ was discovered several years ago
> > > > when a group of campers forgot to pack fuel for their camp stove.
> > > > Because the area prohibited use of campfires, the campers needed to
> > > > use an alternative fuel source.  One of the campers made a gel
> > > > that they could use as a solid fuel.  To make this gel,
> > > > chalk was crushed and mixed with vinegar.  The resulting mixture
> > > > was filtered through a napkin and the liquid collected was
> > > > heated using a solar reflector.  Some rubbing alcohol
> > > > was poured into the solution to form a gel which burned.
> > > >   Step 1:  Reaction between chalk (calcium carbonate) and
> > > >   vinegar (acetic acid, dilute) to produce
> > > >   carbon dioxide, water and calcium acetate . . .
> > > >   Step 2:  Filtration of unreacted chalk from the mixture
> > > >   to leave a solution of calcium acetate in water . . .
> > > >   Step 3:  Removal of excess water from calcium acetate solution . . .
> > > >   Step 4:  Mixing alcohol with calcium acetate to form fuel . . .
> > > >   Step 5:  Combustion of fuel produced . . .
> > > >   Step 6:  Evaluation of fuels produced . . . [more]
> > > >
> > > > Baking Bread (And Other Recipes) With An Alcohol Stove
> > > > http://trailquest.net/baking.html
> > > >
> > > > Cloudwalker's Homemade Alcohol Stove
> > > > http://www.cloudwalkersatpage.com/page014.html
> > > >
> > > > The Gelled Alcohol Stove Fuel
> > > > - Calcium Acetate
> > > > http://wings.interfree.it/html/Gelalcohol.html
> > > >
> > > > > Keith Addison wrote:
> > > > > This is from a previous message on ethanol gel:
> > > >
> > > > > > "Mix 11 grams of Calcium Acetate with 30 mg of water.
> > > > > > Make sure all the Calcium Acetate
> > > > > > is dissolved, this might take an hour of occasional stirring.
> > > > > > Measure 10 mg of the solution. Slowly add 40 mg of ethanol. As you
> > > > > > add the ethanol, the mixture should gel instantly. Pour off any
> > > > > > remaining ethanol (a very small amount). Because the mixture gels
> > > > > > instantly, you do not have to combine the two until you need to use
> > > > > > it for cooking."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I made some Calcium Acetate by neutralizing acetic acid with lime.
> > > > > > Works well, gels immediately, burns very nicely, but it's not very
> > > > > > stable, best to make it when you need it. This way, since it's
> > > > > > bioduels in the Third World rural development setting that we're
> > > > > > most interested in, everything req

[Biofuel] 1995 Chevrolet 6.5 litre Turbo-Diesel - Opinions

[Darryl McMahon]

I have a line on a diesel pickup truck, which I naturally want to run on 
biodiesel.

I have a few things to look at by way of research tomorrow.  The archives seem 
inconclusive on this engine - vaguely in favour (thread including message 9021 
and 
others).  I will also be reading at www.thedieselpage.com and at least one 
other 
site I have bookmarked.  

However, for now, does anyone have experience with these engines, especially on 
biodiesel?  Any issues?  Success?

Thanks in advance.

-- 
Darryl McMahon  http://www.econogics.com/
It's your planet.  If you won't look after it, who will?


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RE: [Biofuel] Fwd: Acetone as gasoline additive tests - Phase II

[malcolm maclure]

Hello Keith, Mike et al

It goes well thanks...busy as ever.

>Acetone's a better subject than acetylene eh? LOL! (Phew!) By the 
>way, we took that tank back to that engineer, and he wasn't at all 
>perturbed by what we told him. "Oh", he said. Hm. Beware of certain 
>engineers bearing gifts.


Yes, thankfully the "boom" is IN the cylinders & not on the outside. Phew
indeedy!! Bloody engineers...give 'em a few spanners & they think they know
it all!! 

>What motor is that Malcolm?

Sorry - should have said. The Range Rover is off the road at the moment, the
flex plate (links torque converter to crank) shattered so while I had the
auto transmission off to replace the flex plate I thought I'd swap the trans
for a diesel matched one I got on ebay (when the conversion was done they
left the petrol matched trans in & the shifts were never right) I've just
finished rebuilding the new trans as it had water in it, so hope to try it
out next week.

In the meantime we bought the current runabout from my niece for £250
because it needed a few bits doing to it & she just couldn't afford the
repairs - usual story £150 in parts but £650 in labour. She was given a
later model by her mum & dadaren't parents great!

It's a 1989 Volvo 740 GLE - 2.3l petrol, non turbo. It's a bit thirsty for
my liking but hopefully we won't be using it as the main vehicle for too
much longer. We mainly do school runs, weekly shop, pick up & drop off
customer's furniture etc. So it's town driving with about 10 - 15% motorway.

My initial mpg without acetone (measured over 186.9 miles) = 21.346
As I said it was running rich.

110 miles left to cover on the acetone mpg test so I should have a result by
mid week, hope so as I'm off to Spain for a week on Thursday. :-)

I'll keep you posted.

Regards

Malcolm





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Keith Addison
Sent: 30 April 2005 10:49
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Fwd: Acetone as gasoline additive tests - Phase II

Hi Malcolm, how goes?

Acetone's a better subject than acetylene eh? LOL! (Phew!) By the 
way, we took that tank back to that engineer, and he wasn't at all 
perturbed by what we told him. "Oh", he said. Hm. Beware of certain 
engineers bearing gifts.

>Doing an mpg test at the moment Keith, another 130 miles to do before I can
>report back. What I will say is that the engine seems to be running a
little
>smoother, quieter with a bit more power - not very quantitative I know.

I think nearly everyone's said that, interesting in itself, 
quantitative or not.

>One observation I've made is that the engine before was running rich - with
>acetone as an additive the distinctive "sweetness" of the exhaust fumes has
>gone, & they smell more like that of a well tuned engine. Again not very
>quantitative.

What motor is that Malcolm?

>Hope to have an mpg comparison next week
>
>Take care

You too, and thanks!

Regards

Keith


>Malcolm
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
>Of Keith Addison
>Sent: 29 April 2005 18:51
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: [Biofuel] Fwd: Acetone as gasoline additive tests - Phase II
>
>Any further results from Biofuel list members yet?
>
>Regards
>
>Keith

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RE: [Biofuel] Bush on matter - a thousand points of light (revisited)

[Michael Redler]

Hi everyone,
 
I've been receiving emails lately that have given me a burst of enthusiasm and 
curiosity about the future. 
 
Here are some of the things I've been thinking about. I hope you don't mind if 
I use this forum to express myself a little.
 
Today, the political climate is tense. Many people (many in this forum) see 
something terribly wrong in our society and they are responding to it. Picket 
lines, protests, webblogs and expressions of civil disobedience are all around 
us. It is a climate from which the hippie communes emerged in the 1960's as a 
reaction to greed and abuse of political power. I see something similar 
emerging but, in a way that is more difficult to define and I think it is 
mostly due to the Internet. In addition to this forum, I belong to other 
alternative energy, environmentalist and political activist groups who use the 
Internet to form alliances and organize in ways to both change society in the 
long term and help allies in the short term. We've already relied on each other 
reduce our energy bill, share information about appropriate technologies and 
reduce our dependence on those who don't have our best interests in mind. In 
the future, waste vegetable oil and other biofuels, for example, may become a
 common fuel for heating low income homes. The knowledge we share has already 
caused us to actually make some of the things we need instead of buying them at 
places like Walmart. I'm excited about those who work at Walmart not being 
coerced into buying what they need, based on where the lowest price and quality 
prevail and perpetuate a cycle of low price/lower pay.
 
So, where am I going with this? I was just thinking, wouldn't it be exciting to 
have alliances that form within all communities in a way that replaces 
dependence on the Dollar, oil, utilities, etc., with knowledge and materials 
that are traded among you and your peers?
 
George H. W. Bush said:

 
"I have spoken of a thousand points of light, of all the community 
organizations that are spread like stars throughout the Nation, doing good."
 
I would be very excited to see this noble idea actually used as something other 
than propaganda, to keep back the interests of big money and the ruling class, 
from where the author came.
 
Mike 
 
Chris Lloyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The incredible thing is not that he says these things but that we
voted for him. <

I can't sat too much as I voted for Blair last time, we vote again next
week but they all seem as bad as one another. Big business is running
this country now, well them and the EU. The environment here is going to
hell and all any party can think of is jacking the price of fuel and
heating up. Chris. 

Wessex Ferret Club (http://www.wessexferretclub.co.uk)





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PLEASE READ - was Re: [Biofuel] Change of status

[Keith Addison]

individual e-mails to a daily digest.
Kind Regards,
Grahame


Please do not respond to this, it shouldn't be here and will be dealt 
with offlist.


Thankyou.

Biofuel list owner

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Re: [Biofuel] re acetone in fuel

[Keith Addison]

Well well. Good for you! Thanks very much. So much for early 
scepticism - we only hear positive reports, from promising to good.


Hey there Keith, i have been running acetone now for nine weeks, i 
havn't done anything but check my budget spent on fuel. I averaged 
$45 AUS per week for twelve months B.A.(before acetone). I now 
average $32AUS p/w.The car i'm using it in does just about the same 
routine every week. I't an older car (expendable) a 94 Ford sedan, 
fuel injected six cyl. The wife uses it for dropping kids at school 
and pickups and her weekly shop. I have been adding 100 mls to 30 
litres and i only use high octane fuel, the most expensive you can 
buy here. The car has been reborn, the power that has come back is 
amazing. I guess the injectors have cleaned up a bit. A mate of mine 
is using the same fuel mix but he is using low grade unleaded and he 
says it has not made a difference that he can notice in his wallet, 
but his car seems like it has grown another two cylinders. It flys 
and i think thats why he hasn't noticed any money benifits, he has a 
lead foot and he uses shit loads of fuel where ever he goes. But all 
in all acetone has my vote and i will keep using it. I think some 
reputable investigation should be done on it and results posted for 
every one to see.


That seems warranted. Any suggestions? Who what and how?


I spose acetone will triple in price and knock all the benefits, cheers  A&T.


:-) Would it? At a price of 300 mls to 30 litres, would the extra 
cost be more than the $13 a week you're saving? It's widely used, the 
US alone produces about a megatonne a year, and even if "they" 
noticed an accumulation of such tiny amounts, they're not very quick 
off the mark (or they'd probably have thumped all the backyard 
biodieselers already, it's costing them millions after all).


All best

Keith

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Re: [Biofuel] new biodiesel store

[Keith Addison]

Hello Keith, i hope it's ok to write you direct,


You didn't, the whole list got it.


it's an older thread question. I've wondered
weather washing was so important based on peoples use of non washing 
systems with

good luck.


For how long? Please check the list archives, there's a great deal 
about this there. The url is at the end of every message you receive, 
including this one.


Here's a start (from a previous message):

Here's what the Fuel Injection Equipment (FIE) Manufacturers 
(Delphi, Stanadyne, Denso, Bosch) have to say about biodiesel 
quality.

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_FIEM.html
FIEM report

There's the school of thought (?) that brays rather too loudly that 
"there's no evidence that unwashed biodiesel causes any damage". The 
FIEM does not agree. As for all of us here, if we're going to go to 
the trouble of making or buying or using biodiesel with all its 
environmental benefits, as well as engine benefits, it hardly makes 
sense to deny the Precautionary Principle. A diesel motor should 
last at least 250,000 miles, or much more. Until there IS evidence 
that unwashed biodiesel DOESN'T cause engine damage, wash it. 
"Evidence" would be millions of miles with a wide variety of motors 
backed by considerable scientific study. There is no such evidence 
and there never will be. Do it properly. Wash it.


Some more - previous messages to the list:

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/34088/

http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/34105/

Keep going.

From Journey to Forever:

Washing myths - Some biodieselers don't wash their fuel -- there's no 
evidence that it does any damage, they say. Yes there is! See Why 
quality matters. 
 
Another longstanding myth is that methanol is good fuel, why wash out 
the excess methanol, what a waste! Methanol is a good fuel in 
specially prepared race car engines -- gasoline engines. Excess 
methanol in unwashed biodiesel is not good fuel and does harm, 
corroding the fuel injection system. Quality biodiesel is washed 
biodiesel.

-- From: Bubble washing:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html

More:

Determining the Influence of Contaminants on Biodiesel Properties, 
Jon H. Van Gerpen et al., Iowa State University, July 31, 1996 -- 
12,000-word report on contaminants and their effects -- good reasons 
to wash your biodiesel. Acrobat file, 2.1Mb:
http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/1996073 
1_gen014.pdf


Referenced at:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_link.html
Biodiesel resources on the Web

Etc.


So of course then the chemistry side of make fuel correctly is most important
I understand the tank build and with good trade skills, will make my 
own processor.
I wondering about the chemistry though is there an archive that 
better describes
titration and thus formulating the methaloxide mix. Also i see very 
almost nothing

on glycerin use/recycle


Huh? Where are you looking??

The "Welcome" message you got when you joined tells you what the list 
resources are, didn't you read it? They're also listed at the list 
website, which is in the headers of every message you receive - here:

http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel

Anyway, for both those questions, and much more, try:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html
Make your own biodiesel

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html
Glycerine

As well as the list archives.

These are all Biofuel list resources.

Best wishes

Keith



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[Biofuel] Re: Wood stoves and Burners design

[Keith Addison]

Hi group:

First of all, we should not use any more the "third world" phrase, as
far as I know, our creator gave us only one world. What we have are
developed, undeveloped and developing countries.


I'm afraid I disagree. I reject that paradigm of development, as do 
very many others, including the biosphere, for instance.


Using the term 3rd World is the lesser of all the other evils. I 
prefer the South, but then people think you mean Alabama, LOL! So you 
could say the Global South, which also has its uses, but much of it 
isn't in the global south. If you'd care to notice, you'll see a lot 
here about "One World", but the term is an aspiration more than a 
reality in many ways and does not cover the many distinctions that 
often have to be made.


Journalists, journals and writers who're aware of these issues still 
use Third World more than anything else.


"Undeveloped" and "developing countries" is much more suspect, it 
makes them sound backward, more 3rd rate, than Third World does, and 
presumes that they must follow "the Western" model, which is surely 
not the case.


I also reject the notion that the OECD countries are developed - 
they're at least as much in need of appropriate technology as the 
poor countries are, much more so in many ways. Steroidal and 
overspecialised muscle-development might also not be a good example 
of "development", though the musclebound victim would no doubt claim 
it was.


The original phrase "3rd World" arose in about 1962 when the world 
was conveniently divided by the UN into First World: Capitalist, 
market-economies; Second World: Communist/Socialist, 
centralised-planning; Third World: Countries with un- or 
under-developed resources; Fourth World: Countries with one very 
valuable resource only, eg oil or phosphate (Kuwait, Nauru etc.); 
Fifth World: Countries with no commodity resources (also called 3S 
economies - sand, sea and sky, typically Pacific atolls but also 
applied to Chad, Central African Republic, Mali etc.). (Thankyou 
Michael.)


The UN distanced themselves from this system in about 1965 and moved 
to "LDC" and "MDC" (lesser and more developed countries) instead, to 
accommodate countries like Brazil and South Korea. And they have 
moved on from that too. LDC and MDC are unacceptable for the same 
reasons, and most people don't know those terms. When you say 3rd 
World at least people know where you mean. There's also the sense 
that it means "not the industrialized countries", which is how I use 
it most.


Similarly, the industrialised countries are often referred to as "the 
West", but when one talks of the West it must include Japan, which is 
an Eastern nation. So I refer to the industrialized countries, which 
doesn't imply that that's a Good Thing, or to the OECD, if I think 
folks are familiar with that.


Anyway, in case you think you're correcting a "Westerner", I am not a 
Westerner, I'm a 3rd Worlder, I've been deeply involved in these 
issues for nearly 40 years, my use of the term is well-considered, 
and I'll continue to use it.



I am from Bolivia, a developing country located in the heart of South
America, and we are changing from archaic wood stoves to natural gas
stoves, however, our knowledge regarding combustion efficient burners is
minimum.


It might be a mistake to refer to woodstoves in general as "archaic" 
(though some of them certainly are), especially if you include 
biomass, and to regard the adoption of "natural gas" stoves as the 
future, even in Bolivia.


Best wishes

Keith



I kindly request your help to get links, references, literature and
other information on how to design efficient natural gas burners for
domestic and light industrial purposes.

Thanks in advance.

Jose Luis Hernandez


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[Biofuel] Change of status

[Andrea Reeves-Law]

Can't seem to find out how to do this! Please change my status from individual 
e-mails to a daily digest.
Kind Regards,
Grahame

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[Biofuel] Wood stoves and Burners design

[Jose Luis Hernandez Quisbert]

Hi group:

First of all, we should not use any more the "third world" phrase, as
far as I know, our creator gave us only one world. What we have are
developed, undeveloped and developing countries.

I am from Bolivia, a developing country located in the heart of South
America, and we are changing from archaic wood stoves to natural gas
stoves, however, our knowledge regarding combustion efficient burners is
minimum.

I kindly request your help to get links, references, literature and
other information on how to design efficient natural gas burners for
domestic and light industrial purposes.

Thanks in advance.

Jose Luis Hernandez 

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Re: [Biofuel] new biodiesel store

[raymond greeley]

question. I've wondered
weather washing was so important based on peoples use of non washing systems 
with
good luck. So of course then the chemistry side of make fuel correctly is 
most important
I understand the tank build and with good trade skills, will make my own 
processor.
I wondering about the chemistry though is there an archive that better 
describes
titration and thus formulating the methaloxide mix. Also i see very almost 
nothing

on glycerin use/recycle


From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] new biodiesel store
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 01:52:50 +0900


source : http://www.b100fuel.com/

URL of the new biodiesel store : 
http://www.biodieselwarehouse.com/index.html


looks interesting for US

FD


Take care. Lots about much of that stuff in the list archives, not all of 
which would inspire confidence. Processor kits? Yet more "Appleseed" 
200-litre processors with an underpowered 1" clearwater pump, etc etc. 
Build your own. And, no doubt, lots of very useful info about how to deal 
with washing problems rather than making the stuff properly in the first 
place and not having any washing problems. And so on. You're better off 
here, for free.


Harbor Freight Tools 1" clearwater pump - Price: $49.00 Sale price: $39.00
http://www.biodieselwarehouse.com/pumps.html

Direct from Harbor Freight Tools (ITEM 1479-0VGA): $34.99
http://www.harborfreight.com/

Recipes: shake, rattle and roll, LOL!

Best

Keith

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Re: [Biofuel] Fwd: Acetone as gasoline additive tests - Phase II

[Michael Redler]

Re: "BUT"
 
I'm wondering if there were differences between tanks because of the gas. I 
mean to say that there might be fluctuations in the gas delivered to the same 
gas station. Since (as I understand it) the same gas station was used, perhaps 
the difference is in the pumps. 
 
...just thinking out loud.
 
Mike

Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Any further results from Biofuel list members yet?

Regards

Keith


Fwded message:

>To: wastewatts 
>From: Dave Brown 
>Subject: [wastewatts] Acetone as gasoline additive tests - Phase II
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Last week I posted results of 3 tankfuls of gasoline containing acetone as
>an additive at about 3oz per 10gal of gasoline. Summary of findings were:
>
>Over all: Just about averaged 2.4oz/10gal of acetone
> Distance/consumption: 1,245mi, 62.00gal
> Result: 20.08mpg
>
>Tank 2 and 3 only: Pretty darn close to the 3oz/10gal recommended acetone
>level.
> Distance/consumption: 859mi, 41.95gal
> Result: 20.48
>
>So next I operated my van a similar distance under similar, although not
>strictly identical, conditions. Here's what I got.
>
>Tank 1: Still had some acetone remaining, I estimate about 0.25oz per
>10gal of gasoline.
> Distance/consumption: 416mi, 20.184 gal
> Result: 20.6mpg.
> Notes: Mixed feelings on this tankful, as I'm sure the acetone in
>earlier gas fills probably cleaned out my injectors and stuff. Still, it
>wasn't any practical difference from the acetone test.
>
>Tank 2: Any acetone residuals in the tank now are nil and not worth
>figuring or considering.
> Distance/consumption: 445mi, 26.556gal
> Result: 16.76mpg
> Notes: Huge drop, and trips were relatively consistent with those
>taken for the acetone portion of tests. I doubt that any minor temperature
>fluctuations during this testing period could account for this much change.
>
>Tank 3: Shouldn't be any acetone left other than a stray molecule or two.
> Distance/consumption: 396mi, 23.017gal
> Result: 17.2mpg
> Note: In the same relative ball park as the last tankful.
>
>Over all: 1257miles / 69.757gal = 18.02mpg
>
>Tanks 2 and 3 only: 841miles / 49.573gal = 16.96mpg
>
>Huh? That's a big difference. The skeptic in me doubts it should be
>so. An overall difference of 2.78pmg that says that the acetone provided
>for a 15.4% improvement. Or a tank 2/3 comparison that results in a
>difference of 3.52mpg that says that the acetone provided for a 17.6%
>improvement.
>
>If this is all true, then I'm going to become a devoted fan of the acetone
>treatment.
>
>BUT
>
>Yesterday I made a trip to the western suburbs of Chicago, IL. I tanked up
>as I was leaving Green Bay, WI and tanked up again at the same gas station
>when I came back. This was 397miles 380mi highway, 17mi local
>streets). How'd I do? 397miles / 18.65gal = 21.3mpg. ? That's
>right up there with the best of the acetone treated gasoline. Only
>difference is that this last tankful was consumed at nearly "all" highway
>speeds. Makes it different from the other tankfuls, but it still makes one
>wonder.
>
>Conclusion: The test must continue. Since I've got straight gasoline in
>the tank now, I'll continue the record keeping for another week or
>so. Then I'll go back to acetone addition and run a comparable set of miles.
>
>I'll report back later as further results come in. In the meantime I'm
>tending to lean towards concluding that the acetone helps. I know my
>engine runs smoother with it. It was evident when I first added the
>acetone and the engine is now back to it's old tricks without the acetone.
>
>Dave Brown
>Green Bay, WI
>
>Black holes are where God divided by zero.

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Re: [Biofuel] Bush on matter

[Michael Redler]

"The incredible thing is not that he says these things but that we voted for 
him."
 
When I see "our" president barely able to form a complete sentence and the 
message is as convoluted as his grammar, I think of a scene in the movie Fargo. 
A killer in the movie has kidnapped a woman and she thinks she has an 
opportunity to escape. She runs from him, full-speed, with a hood over her head 
and hands tied behind her back. She runs full-speed into a tree and collapses. 
I (along with the rest of the audience) burst out laughing and soon after 
wonder why.
 
Mike

"F. Desprez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Richard Littrell a écrit :

> Dear Chris,
>
> This is classic Bush. It is up there with his other observations such 
> "Is our children learning?" from a speech on education, "More and 
> more of our imports come from oversees., I hope the ambitious realize 
> that they are more likely to succeed with success as opposed to 
> failure., We ought to make the pie higher.", and my personal 
> favorite, "The problem with the French is they have no word for 
> entrepreneur." The incredible thing is not that he says these things 
> but that we voted for him.
> Rick

Richard,

As a french, I do appreciate your favorite. We of course like the 
bushism. It's good to forget our own leaders stupidities and the more 
serious threat on the planet from the Bush administration. The french 
translation of "Bushism" is "Busheries" (pronounced Boucheries, french 
word for slaughtering) , that made a new sense with Irak events.
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Re: [Biofuel] Bush on matter

[Richard Littrell]

Thanks, I didn't know about this.

Rick

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

To see the full list of quotes, go to slate.com, type bushism in the search box, 
and read them all. They go back several years.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Chris,

This is classic Bush.  It is up there with his other observations such 
"Is our children learning?" from a speech on education,  "More and more 
of our imports come from oversees.,  I hope the ambitious realize that 
they are more likely to succeed with success as opposed to failure.,  We 
ought to make the pie higher.",  and my personal favorite, "The problem 
with the French is they have no word for entrepreneur."  The incredible 
thing is not that he says these things but that we voted for him. 


Rick

Chris Lloyd wrote:

 


BUSH: "One of the great sources of energy for the future is liquefied
  

 


natural gas. There's a lot of gas reserves around the world. Gas can
only be transported by ship, though, when you liquefy it, when you put
it in solid form."  <





   


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RE: [Biofuel] Fwd: Acetone as gasoline additive tests - Phase II

[mike]

In addition to mpg comparison, it will be useful to know the age and size of
the engine, the type of fuel delivery system, the fuel used, and the amount of
acetone added.
m--
> Doing an mpg test at the moment ...the engine seems to be running a little
> smoother, quieter with a bit more power - not very quantitative I know.
>
> One observation I've made is that the engine before was running rich - with
> acetone as an additive the distinctive "sweetness" of the exhaust fumes has
> gone, & they smell more like that of a well tuned engine. Again not very
> quantitative.
>
> Hope to have an mpg comparison next week
>
> Take care
>
> Malcolm

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[Biofuel] re acetone in fuel

[Andrew & Tracey]

Hey there Keith, i have been running acetone now for nine weeks, i havn't done 
anything but check my budget spent on fuel. I averaged $45 AUS per week for 
twelve months B.A.(before acetone). I now average $32AUS p/w.The car i'm using 
it in does just about the same routine every week. I't an older car 
(expendable) a 94 Ford sedan, fuel injected six cyl. The wife uses it for 
dropping kids at school and pickups and her weekly shop. I have been adding 100 
mls to 30 litres and i only use high octane fuel, the most expensive you can 
buy here. The car has been reborn, the power that has come back is amazing. I 
guess the injectors have cleaned up a bit. A mate of mine is using the same 
fuel mix but he is using low grade unleaded and he says it has not made a 
difference that he can notice in his wallet, but his car seems like it has 
grown another two cylinders. It flys and i think thats why he hasn't noticed 
any money benifits, he has a lead foot and he uses shit loads of fuel where 
ever he goes. But all in all acetone has my vote and i will keep using it. I 
think some reputable investigation should be done on it and results posted for 
every one to see. I spose acetone will triple in price and knock all the 
benefits, cheers  A&T.
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RE: [Biofuel] Fwd: Acetone as gasoline additive tests - Phase II

[Keith Addison]

Acetone's a better subject than acetylene eh? LOL! (Phew!) By the 
way, we took that tank back to that engineer, and he wasn't at all 
perturbed by what we told him. "Oh", he said. Hm. Beware of certain 
engineers bearing gifts.



Doing an mpg test at the moment Keith, another 130 miles to do before I can
report back. What I will say is that the engine seems to be running a little
smoother, quieter with a bit more power - not very quantitative I know.


I think nearly everyone's said that, interesting in itself, 
quantitative or not.



One observation I've made is that the engine before was running rich - with
acetone as an additive the distinctive "sweetness" of the exhaust fumes has
gone, & they smell more like that of a well tuned engine. Again not very
quantitative.


What motor is that Malcolm?


Hope to have an mpg comparison next week

Take care


You too, and thanks!

Regards

Keith



Malcolm

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Keith Addison
Sent: 29 April 2005 18:51
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Biofuel] Fwd: Acetone as gasoline additive tests - Phase II

Any further results from Biofuel list members yet?

Regards

Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Bush on matter

[Keith Addison]

>> "More and more of our imports come from overseas.,

which is sorta true since a lot of them come from Canada and Mexico.


... which are not overseas. China is though. Cheap stuff in, real jobs out.


m--

"As  democracy is perfected, the office of president represents,
more and  more closely, the inner soul of the people.
On some great and  glorious day the plain folks of the land
will reach their heart's  desire at last and
the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

H.L. Mencken (1880 -  1956)


Mencken's point of view is always worth considering, but I think he'd 
have been quick to say that this particular downright moron did not 
get to adorn the White House via anything resembling democracy, nor 
was he the candidate of the plain folks of the land. They were simply 
manipulated by fear-mongering, outright lies and bullying and smears 
of anything truly democratic. It was the neocons, recycled Reaganist 
war-hawks, leaders of the so-called Christian fundamentalist 
ultra-right, energy and corporate interests with little interest in 
anything that wouldn't knock the next AGR or the wide-open windows 
for graft who had their great and glorious day. Plain folks don't 
purloin an entire economy, the richest there's ever been, leaving 
millions upon millions of plain folks out in the cold. None of this 
is the work of plain folks, as rapidly growing numbers of them are 
now realising.


Keith

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Re: [Biofuel] simple cook stoves

[mike]

There are many simple, clean-burning, efficient, inexpensive, solid-biofuel
stove designs appropriate for 3rd World country rural areas.  They all share a
few common design parameters: airtight firebox, a means of regulating primary
combustion air, an abundant supply of heated secondary combustion air, and a
tall stack to provide the driving force to make it all work. Google can
provide many specific examples.
m--

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Re: [Biofuel] Heat-powered fan/blower

[mike]

Yes I've seen the pictures of the stove you're having problems with, having no
stack is part of the problem.  A stack creates the draft which draws in
secondary combustion air for complete combustion.  A stack also removes the
combustion products from the immediate vicinity of the humans.
m--
> mike wrote:
>
>>A taller stack will vent the combustion products outside and provide the
>> draft
>>necessary to pull heated secondary combustion air into the fire.
>
> You don't say. However...
>
>>m--
>> >> Two major problems: fuel supply and indoor smoke pollution.
>
> Let's try once again:
>
> NO STACK.
>
> SEE:
>
> http://journeytoforever.org/teststove.html
> COOKSTOVE FOR SCHOOLS
>
> NO STACK HERE EITHER.
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Fryer Rice Oil for SVO

[Keith Addison]

Interesting - this is the first time (in five years) that I encounter 
used rice oil here. Yet (from a previous message):


"It has been estimated that 700 000 t per year of rice bran oil 
could be extracted from the 20% world paddy production currently 
processed in two-stage mills."


So 80% - equivalent to 2,800,000 tons - gets "wasted" because more 
"efficient" single-stage milling mixes the bran with the hulls. Even 
the 20% makes 231 million gallons a year, another 924 million 
gallons in the other 80%. And the bran also contains 40-50% soluble 
carbohydrates, for ethanol.


That's the wasted potential with only current production methods.


(Which could easily be doubled, while cutting inputs down by 80% or 
more, including fossil-fuel inputs...) What was I saying yesterday 
about the powers-that-be taking biofuels issues seriously (not!)? 
Despite all the friendly-sounding grunting noises.



Hello All,
   I am collecting used rice oil from a local burger joint to use 
in my (hopefully soon to be found) SVO converted vehicle.  The oil 
is fairly clean, smells really nice (not at all rancid),


There's an enzyme in it that acidifies the oil - FFA levels rise 
fast, up to 30% from an initial 3%. So it has to be processed 
quickly, which stabilises it I suppose. Try titrating it, that will 
tell you what you need to know.



and has remained liquid in temps down to at least 40F.


Should go lower than that.

I have not found much information about rice oil, including what its 
iodine value is,


90 - 110.

or if it is a "good" oil to use.  Not much information on rice oil 
at journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html, that I came across.
   Also, I am interested in people's experiences with different SVO 
conversions.  Likely I will end up with a MBZ 300D wagon.  Each 
person I speak to proclaims the system they use to be more efficient 
than the other.  Is there anyone out there who can compare the 
commercially available kits, their pros and cons?   Which is the 
best system to install for use in Northern California.


Elsbett. See:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html
Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel

Don't get some two-tank system that probably has copper parts in it 
and all it does is pre-heat the oil to lower the viscosity, there's a 
lot more to it than that, even with a Merc.


Our SVO page is currently being revised. It was three years ago that 
I first uploaded it, and it's been revised and added to regularly 
since then, but more information has emerged on just what is required 
to run an engine on SVO successfully. We don't any longer recommend 
simple two-tank systems that only pre-heat the oil. As Niels Ans¿ of 
the Folkecenter in Denmark said recently: "The "secret" is injector 
and glow plugs, increased injection pressure, + afterglow and good 
quality rape seed oil." Or at least good quality oil, if not 
rapeseed. Special injectors, special glow-plugs, adjustments to the 
injector pump, electronic controls that keep the glow-plugs on and 
the heaters heating until a certain fuel temperature is reached. The 
only such system available in the US and internationally is Elsbett, 
and IMO it's the best system anyway - Elsbett has been deeply 
involved in this business for a long time, 30 years and more. No 
switching fuel from one tank to the other once it's finally warmed up 
enough, no purging before you switch off (or forgetting to) - switch 
on and go, stop and switch off, SVO, biodiesel or petro-diesel, in 
any combination.


Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
http://journeytoforever.org/


   Thanks, Frieda


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RE: [Biofuel] Fwd: Acetone as gasoline additive tests - Phase II

[malcolm maclure]

Doing an mpg test at the moment Keith, another 130 miles to do before I can
report back. What I will say is that the engine seems to be running a little
smoother, quieter with a bit more power - not very quantitative I know.

One observation I've made is that the engine before was running rich - with
acetone as an additive the distinctive "sweetness" of the exhaust fumes has
gone, & they smell more like that of a well tuned engine. Again not very
quantitative.

Hope to have an mpg comparison next week

Take care 

Malcolm

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of Keith Addison
Sent: 29 April 2005 18:51
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Biofuel] Fwd: Acetone as gasoline additive tests - Phase II

Any further results from Biofuel list members yet?

Regards

Keith



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Re: [Biofuel] Bush on matter

[mike]

>> This is classic Bush.  It is up there with
>> "More and more of our imports come from overseas.,

which is sorta true since a lot of them come from Canada and Mexico.
m--

"As  democracy is perfected, the office of president represents,
 more and  more closely, the inner soul of the people.
 On some great and  glorious day the plain folks of the land
 will reach their heart's  desire at last and
 the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

 H.L. Mencken (1880 -  1956)



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Re: [Biofuel] Heat-powered fan/blower - Peltier effect

[Keith Addison]

Since we're talking about wood gas, I was wondering if you've seen this:

http://web.axilar.net/LarenCorie/WoodGasBike.jpg

...interesting.

It can be found on the main page ot the wood gas Yahoo! group.

Mike


Thanks Mike. Nice job. We're planning to build one for our K-truck, 
550cc gasoline motor.


... no doubt Americans would laugh at them, but I don't think Japan 
would get on too well without them. I really wonder if an F250 or 
something is that much more effective.


http://moonstationfoxtrot.com/journalpics/ktrucks.html
Moon Station Foxtrot: K-Trucks
http://moonstationfoxtrot.com/ktrucks/index.html
K-TRUCKS We'll also be doing ethanol soon, which could run the K-truck


-- Or ethanol. Or either? I prefer woodgas for this, that would make 
a big impression here. Midori also has a Yamaha Town-Mate, the little 
50cc mopeds that are about as ubiquitous as K-trucks, which the 
farmers here, especially the women, use to zip about the place. They 
seem to look upon them as a more convenient sort of bicycle - they 
don't bother with helmets, wearing their traditional farming smocks 
and bonnets, bowing sedately to each other as they pass. (Midori 
wears a helmet.) That should do well on ethanol.


Regards

Keith

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Re: [Biofuel] simple cook stoves

[Keith Addison]

There was no suggestion that the PaciificEnergy would be the answer for 3rd
world cooking, but rather that one could examine the designs for succesful
clean burning, efficient stoves so that they understood the principles and
then adapt them to the scale of their application. Canadian designers have
developed clean burning efficient stoves because of smoke pollution problems,
one can benefit from their design experience.


But when asked for more information you snip it out and don't reply.


That sort of approach prevents
re-inventing lopsided wheels that don't work well.


Such as an expensive space-heating woodstove used in Yukon winters 
when all that's needed is half a pound of sticks to cook up some puti 
in a village in Tanzania, that wouldn't be a three-cornered wheel, 
would it? Fine for going up steps I suppose, if the steps are just 
the right height.


Anyway, sure Mike, whatever you say. Thanks for the suggestions. Go 
on arguing if you like, I'll leave you to it.


Rest of previous message below, just to make it quite clear why I'm 
out of here...


Keith



m--

> There's no requirement here for a dual-purpose stove. Yes, they do
> have some application, but that is a different, much less urgent
> problem with different solutions. ...
> You don't want a house-heating stove for this that also cooks food.
> You want an efficient stove that will cook a meal, however long it
> might take. ...
> What did it cost you? Could a village metalworker in outer
> Otjiwarongo make one out of scrap with a pair of tinsnips, a hammer
> and a pliers? And if so could local villagers afford it?
>
>>Simple, clean burning, and efficient are the principles which 
will succeed in

>>a third world country
>
> Obviously. That's a major reason complex solutions involving external
> equipment are resisted. You forgot cheap, you forgot appropriate -
> ie, easily made with local skills and local resources. And all that
> still doesn't guarantee adoption. What currently succeeds most widely
> in 3rd World country rural areas is too often a smoky fire built
> between three stones that uses more wood than is readily available,
> because there isn't any choice.
>
> Keith
>


Previous:


I heat my house and cook on an extremely efficient woodstove.  It's operation
is totally passive, no fans, no batteries, no gizmos.  The key to it's
efficiency is limiting the primary air to just enough to gassify 
the wood fuel

then letting the draft pull in secondary combustion air which is distributed
by a hollow, perforated baffle plate directly above the fire.  Where this
superheated air is introduced,


Heated is easy, but superheated? How does it get superheated?


the wood gas burns much like the jets on a gas
stove.


As with our pint-sized IDD stove during much of the burn, but it's 
erratic and not controllable enough. The burn is not even or stable 
as it proceeds from top to bottom, at several stages it smokes - 
unless there's a powered primary air supply. Other disadvantages are 
that the fuelwood has to be prepared, cut to size, stacked carefully 
and vertically, and once started (not very easy) it burns for half 
an hour, if you shut it down before that you're left with a mess of 
half-burnt fuel that will be difficult to reuse, and no charcoal. If 
you need it to burn longer you have to recharge it and light it all 
over again, by which time the food is cold. Your wife wouldn't use 
it.


There's no requirement here for a dual-purpose stove. Yes, they do 
have some application, but that is a different, much less urgent 
problem with different solutions. This problem only concerns cooking 
food: "Half of humanity cooks over woodfires -- the poorer half. 
Nearly half the world's wood supply is used as fuel. But it's not 
enough -- more than 2 billion people are facing fuelwood 
shortages... Indoor smoke pollution now ranks 8th in health burden 
worldwide (lost years of healthy life), and ranks fourth in the 
"least-developed" countries (which make up about 40% of the world 
population)..."


You don't want a house-heating stove for this that also cooks food. 
You want an efficient stove that will cook a meal, however long it 
might take. The improved woodstoves that will do this are often not 
very efficient and their takeup has often been poor. Liquid-fuel 
stoves using fuel from locally available renewable resources and 
built with local skills are a better answer, as yet, as is fuel that 
can be locally produced and used in existing stoves, replacing the 
need to buy kerosene. There is no single one-size-fits-all solution.



It's rated efficiency is 69% under Oregon DEQ test conditions and it's
emissions do not exceed 3.4 gm/hr. www.pacificenergy.net


What did it cost you? Could a village metalworker in outer 
Otjiwarongo make one out of scrap with a pair of tinsnips, a hammer 
and a pliers? And if so could local villagers afford it?



Simple, clean burning, and efficient are the principles which will succeed in
a t

Re: [Biofuel] Heat-powered fan/blower

[Keith Addison]

A taller stack will vent the combustion products outside and provide the draft
necessary to pull heated secondary combustion air into the fire.


You don't say. However...


m--
>> Two major problems: fuel supply and indoor smoke pollution.


Let's try once again:

NO STACK.

SEE:

http://journeytoforever.org/teststove.html
COOKSTOVE FOR SCHOOLS

NO STACK HERE EITHER.

FROM PREVIOUS:


>Some comparisons have found
>that the old three-stone woodfire can be as efficient or more
>efficient if it's done well. It might be a better idea to find the
>best fire builder in the valley and get him to give everyone else
>lessons on how to do it properly. There might also be a bigger need
>for good chimneys to take the smoke out than for improved woodstoves.


NO STACK, NO 'BUILDING ENVELOPE', NO LONG FROZEN WINTERS IN TROPICAL COUNTRIES.

Good grief...

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[Biofuel] Fryer Rice Oil for SVO

[Frieda Feen]

Hello All,
I am collecting used rice oil from a local burger joint to use in my 
(hopefully soon to be found) SVO converted vehicle.  The oil is fairly clean, 
smells really nice (not at all rancid), and has remained liquid in temps down 
to at least 40F.  I have not found much information about rice oil, including 
what its iodine value is, or if it is a "good" oil to use.  Not much 
information on rice oil at journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html, that I 
came across.
Also, I am interested in people's experiences with different SVO 
conversions.  Likely I will end up with a MBZ 300D wagon.  Each person I speak 
to proclaims the system they use to be more efficient than the other.  Is there 
anyone out there who can compare the commercially available kits, their pros 
and cons?   Which is the best system to install for use in Northern California. 
Thanks, Frieda   
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Re: [Biofuel] Bush on matter

[marilyn]

To see the full list of quotes, go to slate.com, type bushism in the search 
box, 
and read them all. They go back several years.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Chris,

This is classic Bush.  It is up there with his other observations such 
"Is our children learning?" from a speech on education,  "More and more 
of our imports come from oversees.,  I hope the ambitious realize that 
they are more likely to succeed with success as opposed to failure.,  We 
ought to make the pie higher.",  and my personal favorite, "The problem 
with the French is they have no word for entrepreneur."  The incredible 
thing is not that he says these things but that we voted for him. 

Rick

Chris Lloyd wrote:

>>BUSH: "One of the great sources of energy for the future is liquefied
>>
>>
>natural gas. There's a lot of gas reserves around the world. Gas can
>only be transported by ship, though, when you liquefy it, when you put
>it in solid form."  <
>
>
> 
>  
>
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Re: [Biofuel] simple cook stoves

[mike]

There was no suggestion that the PaciificEnergy would be the answer for 3rd
world cooking, but rather that one could examine the designs for succesful
clean burning, efficient stoves so that they understood the principles and
then adapt them to the scale of their application. Canadian designers have
developed clean burning efficient stoves because of smoke pollution problems,
one can benefit from their design experience. That sort of approach prevents
re-inventing lopsided wheels that don't work well.
m--

> There's no requirement here for a dual-purpose stove. Yes, they do
> have some application, but that is a different, much less urgent
> problem with different solutions. ...
> You don't want a house-heating stove for this that also cooks food.
> You want an efficient stove that will cook a meal, however long it
> might take. ...
> What did it cost you? Could a village metalworker in outer
> Otjiwarongo make one out of scrap with a pair of tinsnips, a hammer
> and a pliers? And if so could local villagers afford it?
>
>>Simple, clean burning, and efficient are the principles which will succeed in
>>a third world country
>
> Obviously. That's a major reason complex solutions involving external
> equipment are resisted. You forgot cheap, you forgot appropriate -
> ie, easily made with local skills and local resources. And all that
> still doesn't guarantee adoption. What currently succeeds most widely
> in 3rd World country rural areas is too often a smoky fire built
> between three stones that uses more wood than is readily available,
> because there isn't any choice.
>
> Keith
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Heat-powered fan/blower

[mike]

A taller stack will vent the combustion products outside and provide the draft
necessary to pull heated secondary combustion air into the fire.
m--
>> Two major problems: fuel supply and indoor smoke pollution.

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