Re: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power

[Doug Younker]

Sorry to hear of your loss Hakan.  I have had items taken from vehicles on
two occasions, but those pale in comparison to your experience.  I hope you
don't experience further problems due to the left and things normalize soon.
To the extent that's possible anyway.
Doug


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Re: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power

[robert luis rabello]

Hakan Falk wrote:

After looking in my office, I 
discovered that my computer (a notebook) was gone and so was my wife's, 
further checking proved that some more valuables was gone. If it wasn't 
for Foxy, probably or lot more would have been gone.


	I'm sorry for your loss, Hakan.  The human heart is hard to 
understand.  May you find peace and rest.  May your home be secure 
once again.




robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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[Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power

[Hakan Falk]

26 hours ago, I woke up to the sound of our dogs barking. I slept 
hard, so she probably gone on for a while. When she would not stop, I 
went up to tell her of. She was standing in the front door that was 
open, just as much as she could not get out. After looking in my 
office, I discovered that my computer (a notebook) was gone and so 
was my wife's, further checking proved that some more valuables was 
gone. If it wasn't for Foxy, probably or lot more would have been gone.


It was an enormous feeling of violation and I spent the whole day 
with the police and to sort things out. Discovered also that my CD 
case with the normal and recent back ups was gone. Maybe it was good 
that I did not wake up a few minutes earlier, because it would 
probably led to that ether myself or others would have been hurt. I 
was in a mood that I easily could have picked a fight.


It has taken me 26 hours without sleep, to get that far that I can 
send this letter. I also had to secure the remote servers and change 
a lot of passwords. Not that anyone, including me, belive that they 
would be able or want to connect and do anything. Only the risk, 
means that I must work hard and fast in the right order to minimize 
the possibilities.


It is places  where normal honest people, suddenly and without any 
obvious reason can get their front door knocked down. They will be 
searched  and the intruders will claim whatever they like to label as 
illegal, without proper definitions, and arrest normal people like 
yourself and members of your family. It is worse and even more 
humiliating. How can any sane person even expect or at least say that 
this would lead to "winning the hearts and minds", the one who says 
so, must be pretty stupid or lying. The people that belive them must 
be even more stupid, or be without the slightest capacity of 
imagination and understanding.


Hakan 




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Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

[capt3d]

those are very conservative (not in the right-wing sense) numbers.  there are 
already close to 1800 killed, and even mcglaughlin--hardly a liberal or a 
dove--repeats figures in excess of 25000 for woulded/maimed/incapacitated.

-chris b.


In a message dated 8/10/05 3:47:56 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< the United States has suffered more than

13,000 casualties—11,500 wounded and 1,500 dead >>


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Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

[robert luis rabello]

Tom Irwin wrote:


Greetings Chris,
 
I can´t say for sure what the author´s intent actually was. From my 
limited experience, some WWII analysts thought that the Japanese 
discussed everything in detail and tried to come to a consensus before 
acting. It doesn´t seem too far fetched that even Hiroshima would take 
the Japanese military divided even minorly between surrender and 
fighting to the bitter end would take some time and discuss the 
alternatives. Can anyone else back up that idea on Japanese thinking?
 
Tom Irwin


	I just watched a documentary on the Nagasaki bombing a few nights 
ago.  One of the points brought out in the film concerned the division 
within the "big 6", a council of Japanese military leaders, regarding 
the conditions for surrender.  They knew their war had been lost, but 
three of them were seeking "peace with honor", while the allies were 
pushing for unconditional surrender.


	After the Nagasaki bombing, the Japanese emperor is said to have 
called the council together for the sake of hearing their advice. 
When their division was presented to him, Emperor Hirohito agreed to 
surrender under the single condition that the institution of the 
Japanese royalty would be preserved.  As I understand this, he got his 
way.


	Now, whether this was the result of the atomic bombings, the entry of 
the Soviet Union into the war, or a combination of both, the allied 
threat in July from Potsdam to wreak destruction from the air and 
utterly destroy Japan was not a bluff.  We live in a very different 
world as a result.  Let's work to prevent it from ever happening 
again, lest those who suffered, and those who STILL suffer, do so in vain.


robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel

[Ian & Theresa Sims]

Thanks Todd
I've been reading the deacidifying recipe. Do you consider this a good 
alternative as it will take out the water with the fats and could it be 
usable on ?Normal WVO with lower acid contents

Cheers Ian
- Original Message - 
From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel



> tell me how long Biodiesel will keep after production.

Keep it in an airtight vessel with only enough head space for thermal 
expansion and contraction and it will be sufficient beyond this time next 
year. More probably well beyond that. At least long enough for the fallout 
to settle, a season's worth of rains to soak it in and you to plant 
another crop so you can do whatever it is that you feel you must do that 
can't be done without an infernal combustion engine.


Spec it to10 microns filtration and be happy. After that, it's not the 
sediment that will grab you by the short and curlies but the saturated 
esters (from animal fats and hydrogenated oils. Depending upon the parent 
stock, your filter could be throttled by "B-100" at temps as high as 40*F.


Last time we rendered deer tallow and made biodiesel from it we were 
stonewalled after an overnight temp of 56*F.


Todd Swearingen



Ian & Theresa Sims wrote:


Does anyone tell me how long Biodiesel will keep after production.
Can someone clarify the final filter process after production. Some say 5 
microns some say 10. Mike pelly's recipe dosn't seem to say anything 
about it? And how long should it stand or can you pour it straight in?

Cheers Ian



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Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel

[Pieter Koole]

Hello,
Sorry if I start talking about something you are not talking about, because
I did not follow this discussion, but I think I can make up that you try to
solidify ethanol.
You can do that very easy with wallpaperglue ( Carboxyl methyl cellulose ).
Just use ethanol in stead of water and make "strong" glue.

Met vriendelijke groet,
Pieter Koole

- Original Message -
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel


>There is (apparently) more than one recipe for sterno.
>
>We had a thread going a while back that included a method: calcium
>acetate (egg shells and vinegar) with ethanol.

This is from a previous message on ethanol gel:


>Keith Addison wrote:
>
>"Mix 11 grams of Calcium Acetate with 30 mg of water. Make sure all
>the Calcium Acetate is dissolved, this might take an hour of
>occasional stirring. Measure 10 mg of the solution. Slowly add 40 mg
>of ethanol. As you add the ethanol, the mixture should gel
>instantly. Pour off any remaining ethanol (a very small amount).
>Because the mixture gels instantly, you do not have to combine the
>two until you need to use it for cooking."
>
>I made some Calcium Acetate by neutralizing acetic acid with lime.
>Works well, gels immediately, burns very nicely, but it's not very
>stable, best to make it when you need it. This way, since it's
>bioduels in the Third World rural development setting that we're
>most interested in, everything required is probably available
>locally, or could be. Ethanol can be brewed on-site (and probably is
>already), even if it's not absolute; acetic acid can be brewed the
>same way, by aerating the mash, and agricultural lime is fairly
>ubiquitous.

Also, from Hoagy ("chalk and vinegar, sunshine and moonshine"):

> > > Some other jelled gelled alcohol ideas --
> > >
> > > Zen Gelled Alcohol Stoves - Sterno-like Stoves
> > > Jelled/Gelled Alcohol
> > > http://zenstoves.net/Sterno.htm
> > > Extreme do it yourselfers can make their own gelled fuel
> > > at home with alcohol and calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4).
> > > Either methanol or ethanol can be used for fuel.
> > > Calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4) can be purchased or made
> > > by slowly dissolving calcium carbonate (eggshells or chalk)
> > > in vinegar, filtering, and allowing to dry.
> > > If you are new to chemistry take a look at
> > > this high school science project page.
> > >
> > > Chemical Reactions and Solid Fuel
> > >
> > >http://www.montvilleschools.org/highschool/science/edorff/chemistry/fu
> > >elslab.htm
> > > A solid camping fuel like Sternoô was discovered several years ago
> > > when a group of campers forgot to pack fuel for their camp stove.
> > > Because the area prohibited use of campfires, the campers needed to
> > > use an alternative fuel source.  One of the campers made a gel
> > > that they could use as a solid fuel.  To make this gel,
> > > chalk was crushed and mixed with vinegar.  The resulting mixture
> > > was filtered through a napkin and the liquid collected was
> > > heated using a solar reflector.  Some rubbing alcohol
> > > was poured into the solution to form a gel which burned.
> > >   Step 1:  Reaction between chalk (calcium carbonate) and
> > >   vinegar (acetic acid, dilute) to produce
> > >   carbon dioxide, water and calcium acetate . . .
> > >   Step 2:  Filtration of unreacted chalk from the mixture
> > >   to leave a solution of calcium acetate in water . . .
> > >   Step 3:  Removal of excess water from calcium acetate solution . . .
> > >   Step 4:  Mixing alcohol with calcium acetate to form fuel . . .
> > >   Step 5:  Combustion of fuel produced . . .
> > >   Step 6:  Evaluation of fuels produced . . . [more]
> > >
> > > Baking Bread (And Other Recipes) With An Alcohol Stove
> > > http://trailquest.net/baking.html
> > >
> > > Cloudwalker's Homemade Alcohol Stove
> > > http://www.cloudwalkersatpage.com/page014.html
> > >
> > > The Gelled Alcohol Stove Fuel
> > > - Calcium Acetate
> > > http://wings.interfree.it/html/Gelalcohol.html



>Mike
>
>TarynToo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Isn't "jelly solid ethanol" Sterno fuel? Or is Sterno made with
>methanol?
>
>It's hard to imagine that there's any energy advantage to jellied fuels
>over woody plants for cooking purposes, I know that many third world
>areas have extreme shortages of cooking fuels or firewood, but it seems
>like that's a distribution problem, more than a real shortage.

Using firewood doesn't necessarily mean deforestation as often
alleged, very often it means local forests are maintained instead.
Where there are shortages (very serious shortages on some places)
it's usually due more to other reasons. Indoor smoke pollution is
probably a bigger problem than energy efficiency, and indeed energy
efficiency itself usually boils down to making the best use of what
you've got rather than a matter of comparative btu's or whatever.

This bit of a previous message might be

Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel

[Ian & Theresa Sims]

Hi Jan 
once again thanks and I will take Your advise re 
filter specs.
Ian

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jan Warnqvist 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 1:31 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel
  
  Hello Ian,
  if treated with anti-oxidizing agents, 
  and produced from oil with a moderate peroxide number, the biodiesel should be 
  consumed within three months.
  10 microns is a normal filter size for 
  diesel engines, unless equipped with a common-rail system. So, filtering at 10 
  microns is good, 5 microns even better assuming that the biodiesel has an 
  abnormal content of solids which will lead to filter clogging very rapidly. 
  Pay attention to the markings "absolute" and "nominal" on the filter spec. 
  There is a huge difference between those two. 
  The biodiesel should be ready for 
  instant consumption if it´s clear and bright and without 
  sediments.
  With best regards
  Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB
   
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Ian 
& Theresa Sims 
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 

Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:59 
AM
Subject: [Biofuel] Biodiesel

Does anyone tell me how long Biodiesel will 
keep after production.
Can someone clarify the final filter process 
after production. Some say 5 microns some say 10. Mike pelly's recipe dosn't 
seem to say anything about it? And how long should it stand or can you pour 
it straight in?
Cheers Ian



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Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel

[Greg and April]

This is a place were a fuel filter heater can come in handy.

Greg H.

- Original Message - 
From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 16:44
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel


SNIP

>
> Spec it to10 microns filtration and be happy. After that, it's not the
> sediment that will grab you by the short and curlies but the saturated
> esters (from animal fats and hydrogenated oils. Depending upon the
> parent stock, your filter could be throttled by "B-100" at temps as high
> as 40*F.
>
> Last time we rendered deer tallow and made biodiesel from it we were
> stonewalled after an overnight temp of 56*F.
>
> Todd Swearingen
>
>
>
> Ian & Theresa Sims wrote:
>
> > Does anyone tell me how long Biodiesel will keep after production.
> > Can someone clarify the final filter process after production. Some
> > say 5 microns some say 10. Mike pelly's recipe dosn't seem to say
> > anything about it? And how long should it stand or can you pour it
> > straight in?
> > Cheers Ian
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
>
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[Biofuel] Re: tdi motorbikes - was Check out Diesel Won't Solve ...

[Keith Addison]

Hi Chris, Jacobus


there's actually a fair amount of activity in this area.  try a google search
with the keywords 'diesel' and 'motorcycle', or "diesel motorcycle".  there's
also some info compiled on the JTF site:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bikes.html


Oops... I'm busy preparing some adds to that page, after Bede posted 
this message last month:


http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg52601.html
[Biofuel] turbo diesel motorbike

Here are the rest of the links meanwhile:

New diesel superbikes

http://www.gizmag.co.uk/go/4273/
gizmag Article: The first Diesel Superbike: the Star Twin ThunderStar 1200 TDI

http://www.neander-motors.com/
Neander - Motors - Dieselmotor

http://www.dieselmotorcycle.co.uk/
Dieselmotorcycle Made in the EU

http://www.dieselfighter.de/main.html
Willkommen bei Hofschaller: Motorradteile - Zubehör

http://www.dieselfighter.de/dieselfighter.html
Dieselfighter

http://tec.avl.com/wo/webobsession.servlet.go/encoded/YXBwPWtiYXNlJnBh 
Z2U9Y29udGVudC1tYW5hZ2VtZW50L3ZpZXcmaWQ9NDAwMDQ5OTY1.html

AVL - High Performance Diesel Motorcycle 100Hp/200Nm
Or:
http://snipurl.com/gutv

Best

Keith



-chris b.

In a message dated 8/10/05 5:57:29 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< where are the tdi motorbikes >>



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Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel

[Ian & Theresa Sims]

Hi Mike
Outside in 20L drums
Ian
- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Weaver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel


Not long.  It's like coffee beans - need to keep turning over yout stock. 
I have heard - anecdotally - a year under perfect conditions.  Less if 
conditions are bad.

How are you storing it?

Ian & Theresa Sims wrote:


Does anyone tell me how long Biodiesel will keep after production.
Can someone clarify the final filter process after production. Some say 5 
microns some say 10. Mike pelly's recipe dosn't seem to say anything 
about it? And how long should it stand or can you pour it straight in?

Cheers Ian



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Re: [Biofuel] methanol

[Ian & Theresa Sims]

Thanks Jan
Ian

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jan Warnqvist 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 7:32 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] methanol
  
  Yes, old methanol is always a problem. 
  Both for speedway racers and for biodiesel producers.
  With best regards
  Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB
   
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Ian 
& Theresa Sims 
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 

Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 3:16 
AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] methanol

Thanks Jan
But is that a yes or a no on question 
1

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jan Warnqvist 
  
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 
  12:20 AM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] methanol
  
  Hello Ian.
  Answer #1: Methanol attracts water. 
  So, old methanol is not anhydrous, which it has to when producing 
  biodiesel.
  Answer#2: Yes, but it takes a little 
  longer.
  Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB
   
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Ian 
& Theresa Sims 
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 
10:49 AM
Subject: [Biofuel] methanol

I was talking to a friend that races 
cars and he said that methanol kept for a long??time degraded and didn't 
work as well. Is this a problem for us?
As a matter of interest does biodiesel make 
the sump oil in your car go as black as dinodiesel?
 
Cheers Ian



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[Biofuel]pH

[herbert]

Good day!

I have recently started with my biodiesel
project. The process has gone well until after the washing. The pH is at
app 8.5 - 9. This has happened with three test batches. 

I have tried the little bit of vinegar
with the first wash.

Can anybody assist? Your constructive
comments will be appreciated.

Regards

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Re: [Biofuel] Distillation information

[Ken Provost]

on 8/9/05 2:34 PM, des at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


> While researching online re: methanol recovery, and the
> current thread on ethanol, I found what seems to be a
> great site on everything one would want to know about
> the distillation process.
> 
> It's at:
> http://lorien.ncl.ac.uk/ming/distil/distil0.htm
> 
> I've only gotten part of the way through all the info
> there, but thought the info would be good to share.



Yup, that's  a great site -- finally I understand the
difference between a maximum and minimum azeotrope. Well,
I probly learned it 35 years ago in PChem, but I haven't
known it RECENTLY :-)

Thx -- it's been bookmarked.   -K


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Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel

[Tom Irwin]

Hi Ian and Theresa,
 
Definitely have to agree with Todd here. I´ve been doing a lot of work making BioD from animal fat. It resolidifies at relatively high temperatures. I left 2 liters in a hood in my lab over winter break. They turn off the heat here cause we rarely get freezing temperatures. We have a few days down to about 5 degrees C and some as high as 22. When I returned to the lab it was chilly again and the BioD was a yellowish white solid. With the heat on the last two weeks it´s liquified and looks just like it did originally but I haven´t engine tested it yet to see if it still really is BioD.
 
Tom Irwin
 


From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:44:42 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel> tell me how long Biodiesel will keep after production.Keep it in an airtight vessel with only enough head space for thermal expansion and contraction and it will be sufficient beyond this time next year. More probably well beyond that. At least long enough for the fallout to settle, a season's worth of rains to soak it in and you to plant another crop so you can do whatever it is that you feel you must do that can't be done without an infernal combustion engine.Spec it to10 microns filtration and be happy. After that, it's not the sediment that will grab you by the short and curlies but the saturated esters (from animal fats and hydrogenated oils. Depending upon the parent stock, your filter could be throttled by "B-100" at temps as high as 40*F.Last time we rendered deer tallow and made biodiesel from it we were stonewalled after an overnight temp of 56*F.Todd SwearingenIan & Theresa Sims wrote:> Does anyone tell me how long Biodiesel will keep after production.> Can someone clarify the final filter process after production. Some > say 5 microns some say 10. Mike pelly's recipe dosn't seem to say > anything about it? And how long should it stand or can you pour it > straight in?> Cheers Ian>>>>___>Biofuel mailing list>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>> >___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


 
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Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

[Tom Irwin]

Greetings Chris,
 
I can´t say for sure what the author´s intent actually was. From my limited experience, some WWII analysts thought that the Japanese discussed everything in detail and tried to come to a consensus before acting. It doesn´t seem too far fetched that even Hiroshima would take the Japanese military divided even minorly between surrender and fighting to the bitter end would take some time and discuss the alternatives. Can anyone else back up that idea on Japanese thinking?
 
Tom Irwin
 
 
 
 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 06:26:31 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshimatypical think-tank rubbish. an opinion piece masquerading as serious (and unimpeachable, of course!) historical analysis.the thing is, the piece is desperately short on analysis, though long on subtext. he rather selectively piles up a bunch of data about the tactical situation in the pacific. all more or less correct, but he frames it in a manner that is neither organic nor very coherent. most importantly, however, is that only a single sentence fragment (in parenthesis, to boot) in the entire piece directly addresses the question proposed in the title:"On August 7 (the day after Hiroshima, which no one expected to prompt a quick surrender). . . ."let me give that to you again, in case it flew by too fast (precisely the author's intent):". . .the day after Hiroshima, which no one expected to prompt a quick surrender. . . ."so then, why *did* truman drop the bomb?-chris b.In a message dated 8/8/05 6:25:48 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:< I found the one in the Weekly Standard to be very credible. Thanks Greg and April for this information. Perhaps that´s my own personal bias. How would you attack this Chris B. and Hakan? More government propaganda? >>___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


 
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Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

[Tom Irwin]

Hi Mike,
 
Don´t worry you´re not going to burst my bubble. Mid term elections are coming up. I really hope the Republicans try to pass it before those so they can get clobbered in the House. Trying it after the mid term elections offers a  bit more politically cover but then they lose the house, senate and presidency together. No amount of spin is going to make the baby boom generation forget Viet Nam. Those who didn´t go, got to see it on TV and watch their friends come home messed up in some form or another. Some of them actually realize that Nixon et. al. tampered with the peace process in 1968 and extended the war by four more bloody years. Every name on The Wall after 1968 didn´t have to be there. Everyone injured after 1968 could have gone home mostly whole. Even if all of the senators and congresspersons line up their own kids first (not f**king likely), nobody will willing go so Bush, Cheney and the other chickenhawks can get rich on oil. They´re not going to send the kids or grandkids into that kind of stupidity again. Can you imagine the image of police in riot gear teargassing a bunch of grandpas and grandmas. We´re not too far away from critical mass on the casualty side. 1500 dead for nothing is shameful enough. They can keep the pictures of the flag drapped caskets from view but it´s really the wounded they´re going to have the most problems with. You can pretty much calculate that half of those 11,500 have been horribly maimed or burned. Bombs and booby traps do that kind of thing. Someone is going to get their story out with words and pictures, win a Pulitzer and put an end to this incredibly, greedy stupidity. Have a little more patience. Sting sang it during the Reagan administration, ¨ The Russian´s love their children, too.¨ You think Americans don´t?
 
Tom Irwin  


From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 18:46:44 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...Tom,Uh, hate to burst your bubble, but they already are: After two years of war in Iraq, the United States has suffered more than13,000 casualties—11,500 wounded and 1,500 dead*U.S. Readies for Draft**/Dave Eberhart, NewsMax.com/**/Friday, June 25, 2004/* Despite denials that the U.S. plans to re-institute the draft, the Pentagon has stepped up preparations for a new Selective Service System that could allow for a full-blown draft by next year.I want my SUV. Damn the cost.Tom Irwin wrote:> Hi All,> I think you can forget about that draft crap it just won't sell. The > reserves are 25% behind on their recruitment and the army doesn't look > like their going to make their yearly goals for a reason. Nobody wants > to die or be maimed for oil. There are plenty of other alternatives > and the kids know it. They aren't stupid. Any senator or congressman > sponsoring or signing such a bill pretty much wants early retirement.> Tom Irwin>> > *From:* Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]> *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> *Sent:* Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:24:34 -0300> *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...>> I have - or did. I finally quit in frustration. I agree there are> some> excellent people in Government. By my guess 40% of the people did 80%> of the work. It drove me nuts. And the people that did work> threatened> the ones who didn't! We has a GS15 whose jobs was to watch TV and> instruct her assistant to send a payroll once every two weeks.> Nothing> else. I could see her from my desk - she never did anything.>> I don't think a National Service commitment would be a bad thing -> especially if it were tied to financial aid.>> As for the draft, I think all you will have to do wait awhile and> we'll> have one.>>> David M. Brockes wrote:>> >Doesn't sound like you have "worked" in Government either.and> should be> >fired!! Most FTE's are very dedicated to doing a good job for the> people> >served (which includes themselves, who are also taxpayers)but> of course> >there always are those few afraid of their own shadow or who get> put into> >positions of responsibility when they shouldn't bejust like> "real"> >people in "real" jobs.> >Okay, a little over reactivebut then I think we should still> have a> >"Draft" for the military in this country (or something that> includes it).> >DB> >> >-Original Message-> >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> <_javascript_:kh6k0("new","[EMAIL PROTECTED]")>> >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <_javascript_:kh6k0("new","[EMAIL PROTECTED]")>]On> Behalf Of Mike Weaver> >Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 7:41 AM> >To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> <_javascript_:kh6k0("new","Biofuel@sustainablelists.org")>> >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...> >> >> >That's what a lot of people don't understand. If you haven't> worked in> >the Gov't it doesn't make much sense. I was just telling someone that> >the latest IRS IT fias

Re: [Biofuel] move over vw tdi?

[Appal Energy]

evolve or die


Yupper.

After my experiences this past week, it's apparent that death is always an 
option. With semi-predictable frequency, factory guarantees and intermittant 
inevitablity.

The sad thing to note? Our stupidity not only excedes us, but will remain long 
after those who create it are gone.

Let's hope the gods shine favor on those who remain...

Todd Swearingen




Bede wrote:


evolve or die

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Appal Energy
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:17 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] move over vw tdi?


 


move over vw tdi?
   



"There is a range of three different engines to choose from: a 1.4-litre
61kW/83 PS petrol unit, a 1.8-litre 103kW/140 PS petrol unit or a
2.2-litre 103kW/140 PS diesel unit. All of them are combined with a
6-speed manual gearbox making the new Honda Civic the first car in the
C-segment to be equipped with 6-speed gearboxes across all of its range"

No.

Move over Detroit. Hello US unemployment line.

Todd Swearingen



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 


if they offer the diesel in the states, biod users may have a new favorite
small car:

http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&newsid=9097

-chris b.

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messages):
 


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RE: [Biofuel] move over vw tdi?

[Bede]

evolve or die

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Appal Energy
Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:17 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] move over vw tdi?


>  move over vw tdi?

"There is a range of three different engines to choose from: a 1.4-litre
61kW/83 PS petrol unit, a 1.8-litre 103kW/140 PS petrol unit or a
2.2-litre 103kW/140 PS diesel unit. All of them are combined with a
6-speed manual gearbox making the new Honda Civic the first car in the
C-segment to be equipped with 6-speed gearboxes across all of its range"

No.

Move over Detroit. Hello US unemployment line.

Todd Swearingen



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>if they offer the diesel in the states, biod users may have a new favorite
>small car:
>
>http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&newsid=9097
>
>-chris b.
>
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>
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>
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messages):
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>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [Biofuel] move over vw tdi?

[Appal Energy]

 move over vw tdi?


"There is a range of three different engines to choose from: a 1.4-litre 
61kW/83 PS petrol unit, a 1.8-litre 103kW/140 PS petrol unit or a 
2.2-litre 103kW/140 PS diesel unit. All of them are combined with a 
6-speed manual gearbox making the new Honda Civic the first car in the 
C-segment to be equipped with 6-speed gearboxes across all of its range"


No.

Move over Detroit. Hello US unemployment line.

Todd Swearingen



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

if they offer the diesel in the states, biod users may have a new favorite 
small car:


http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&newsid=9097

-chris b.

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Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

[Appal Energy]

I think you miss the point Tom.

It's not anti-trust that is the predominant problem with concerted 
business. And anti-trust is almost the least of concerns when you look 
at the jigsaw puzzle in its conglomerate whole.


As for remaining starry eyed? If that's what you want, just keep a handy 
supply of bathtub blotter around and all will hopefully be alright with 
the world.


On the other hand, if it's change you want, then you are required to 
register yourself as a change agent.


There is no middle ground, more or less.

As for Perot? He saw business and government for what each are worth, as 
well as how both can be virtually worthless if sound financial practices 
aren't adhered to. Whether or not he had personal disdain for another 
person or politician is and was beside the point.


As for large budget deficits being "bad for the wealthy?" I guess it all 
depends if how you calculate wealth, Tom - whether you calculate it on 
quarterly returns, balance sheets, hard currency or credit rating.


The wealthy have theirs by primarily one means - the mainstream middle 
and "lesser" class. Diminish the cash cow in large or small fashion and 
eventually the wealthy are no longer what they thought, hoped or expected.


As well, when the cash cow has been bled dry, the bones are bleached, 
and the national debt remains in the balance, just what is it that you 
expect the "wealthy" to do? What is it you expect government to do?


Let me guess. The government will pick their nose and the wealthy will 
continue to eat bon bons while the country is forclosed upon by foreign 
lien holders.


Think again Tom. When the cucumber resembles nothing more than a 
shriveled pickle of itself, the last standing will be bilked for all 
their worth as a result of past failures and long lack of "insight."


Me thinks you're still living in a "drive-thru," auto-rewind, 
lecture-room mentality, not one that finds ways to envisage eventual 
reality without necessarily experiencing it.


Todd Swearingen



Tom Irwin wrote:


Greetings Todd,
 
I agree with you almost entirely. Occassionally the elctorate gets a 
group of anti business folks into power that enact things like 
anti-trust laws to curb the worst excesses of business. This hasn't 
happened for a number of years but I remain the starry eyed idealist 
that it might happen again within my lifetime. Today it's more like 
rich folks disagreeing on the path the peasants should trod. Take the 
case of Ross Perot running for President. It seems to me he ran just 
cause he didn't like Bush I for some reason. I don't know what that 
reason was but it would be interesting to find out. Of course I don't 
entirely rule out the possibility, however remote, that he actually 
thought large federal deficits were bad for the wealthy.
 
Tom Irwin
 



*From:* Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Wed, 10 Aug 2005 07:56:03 -0300
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

Tom,

Government is business. But not necessarily or precisely going
about the
same business of any specific special interest businesses. More to
the
tune of going about the business of all business.

How many times have you found yourself in the middle of a Freudian
slip,
such as "In this company (country)...?"

Think about it. The structure is precisely the same, with labor,
middle
and upper level "management" and the occassional "stock holder's"
meeting (elections). In the interim, seldom does management change
anything to the liking or needs of labor unless mandatory to
prevent a
serious disruption of production flow. Even then, as in the case
of oil,
they hold out to the last possible moment rather than seizing
available
opportunities.

Call it poor leadership. Call it an attempt to maximize current
infrastructure and investment dollar. Call it whatever you wish. But
government is business, with one of its goals to insure its own
existance to the best of its capabilities.

Todd Swearingen

"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government."




Tom Irwin wrote:

> Hi Todd,
>
> You are such a hairsplitter. Big government or big corporate
> agribusinesses they ane now synonyms at least in the G8 world. I
know
> your just endeavoring to be accurate.
>
> Big Smile,
>
> Tom Irwin
>
>

> *From:* Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
]
> *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

> *Sent:* Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:57:35 -0300
> *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...
>
> Not necessarily.
>
> More like the big hand(s) of soybean interest(s) manipulating a
> set of
> contro

Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel

[Appal Energy]

> tell me how long Biodiesel will keep after production.

Keep it in an airtight vessel with only enough head space for thermal 
expansion and contraction and it will be sufficient beyond this time 
next year. More probably well beyond that. At least long enough for the 
fallout to settle, a season's worth of rains to soak it in and you to 
plant another crop so you can do whatever it is that you feel you must 
do that can't be done without an infernal combustion engine.


Spec it to10 microns filtration and be happy. After that, it's not the 
sediment that will grab you by the short and curlies but the saturated 
esters (from animal fats and hydrogenated oils. Depending upon the 
parent stock, your filter could be throttled by "B-100" at temps as high 
as 40*F.


Last time we rendered deer tallow and made biodiesel from it we were 
stonewalled after an overnight temp of 56*F.


Todd Swearingen



Ian & Theresa Sims wrote:


Does anyone tell me how long Biodiesel will keep after production.
Can someone clarify the final filter process after production. Some 
say 5 microns some say 10. Mike pelly's recipe dosn't seem to say 
anything about it? And how long should it stand or can you pour it 
straight in?

Cheers Ian



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[Biofuel] Lye and Methanol in Ottawa (was no subject)

[Darryl McMahon]

Hello Ray, Jesse and all.

Yes, Jesse, busy is a good word for it just now.  

OK Ray, by MeOH, you mean methanol right?  (CH4OH).

There are indeed race tracks in the Ottawa area.  The Ottodrome International 
Speedway (Stittsville) and Luskville Dragway come to mind.  I have no idea if 
they 
run methanol at either, but you can call them up and see where you get.  (As an 
avid electric vehicle guy, I don't hang out with those folks much.)

I'm assuming you are looking for small quantities (10s, not 1000s of litres).

For methanol, go to Canadian Tire, in the paint section.  Find their paint 
thinner, 
called methyl hydrate.  Same thing as methanol.  Comes in 4 litre containers, 
about 
Cdn$8 each, IIRC.  So, $40 for 20L.

For Lye (NaOH), try a Home Hardware store.  They sell a container about 3 kg, 
with 
resealable lid.  Don't recall the price, but not prohibitive.

Forget Fisher Scientific, they don't want to deal with folks like us (e.g. 
minimum 
charge of $200 per order, before shipping and taxes).

If you are looking for larger quantities, let me know.  I did some research a 
while 
ago.  Distributors are looking to deliver multiple (e.g. 10 or more) 200 L 
barrels 
of methanol as a shipment.  I think lye was in the order of 1000 kg for an 
order 
from distributor.  In between those, try a company like W.O. Stinson fuels for 
the 
methanol, and soap-makers suppliers for the lye.

Darryl McMahon

> Hi Ray,
> No answers?  don't despair.  Our dear Darryl must be busy.  He's up near
> you.  The lye is not expensive, a Cdn Tire thing, and he told me last year
> where to get methanol.  Erg, I'm looking for it in the old letters.
> Jesse
> 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 14:50:48 -0400
> > To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject)
> > 
> > Hello to my fellow brewers from Ontario, Canada:
> > 
> > I just tried pricing MeOH and NaOH from Fisher Scientific (via
> > Good Health and Safety in Mississauga). MeOH @ $79CAD for 20L
> > and NaOH @ $267CAD for 5kg both before tax and shipping. That
> > won't do!  There must be cheaper sources.  I'm near Ottawa.
> > How do you make it economically viable?  Diesel is running at
> > about $0.90CAD per litre right now, but at these prices I can
> > only hope to break even.
> > 
> > Ray
> > 
> > -- 
> > Ray or Shiraz Ings
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 1-613-253-1311
> > Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/
> > 

-- 
Darryl McMahon  http://www.econogics.com/
It's your planet.  If you won't look after it, who will?



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Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country

[Mike Weaver]

Me too.

Not to mention, has it every really worked out the way we thought it would?

Tom Irwin wrote:


Greeting Earl,
 
I'd love to see the U.S. stop meddling in other countries. Any chance 
you can get them to stop sending their 700 military advisors to the 
border of Peru and Bolivia with plans to ship a proposed division? 
While you are at it can you get the governemnet to stop wasting your 
tax money supporting American agribusinesses. Then perhaps the rest of 
the third world will be able to begin to fend for itself.
 
Just a thought or two,
 
Tom Irwin
 



*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:48:58 -0300
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country

Dale,

I don't mean to deflate your dream, but why do we need the government
beauracracy (of which the UN most certainly is) to guarranty these
basic
human rights? Shouldn't that be the responsibility of every person
on the
planet to protect his or her basic rights?

It seems to me that be requiring wealthy nations to "donate" any
portion of
their GDP is just another form of socialism, except on a global scale.

Your other point about not getting involved with those poorer
nations is
right on the money. The biggest terrorism problems in the US today
are a
direct result of our meddling in other nations' affairs. If we
spent less
time and money on controlling other countries, we could spend less
time and
money on counter terrorism measures. Maybe then my taxes will go
down and I
would be able to donate my own money to those poorer nations. But
that, my
friend, is truly just a dream.

Regards,

Earl Kinsley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

--
"That government is best which governs least." -- Thomas Paine

- Original Message -
From: Dale Seto
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country


This is a very wise and informed comment that Keith made, and I
totally
agree. I hope someday that the UN will ingrain and apply four
basic rights
for every human on this planet, and they are;
1) access to food
2) access to clean water
3) access to shelter
4) personal security

I also beleive that all wealthy countries be required to donate
just 2% of
their GDP to a fund to help accomplish this. Just think of all the
extra
money we are spending on counter terrorism that could be put
towards this
goal. It would also thwart terrorism because terrorists would not
be able
to get a foothold or seek refige in the countries that our
goodwill has
touched. But our help must be unconditional. We must not get
involved, or
tell their country how to run it. All we would ask is that they be
peaceful
and abide international law. I know that this is just pie in the
sky and
whishfull thinking, but its just a dream of mine.


Best wishes, Dale


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messages):
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Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

[Mike Weaver]

Tom,

Uh, hate to burst your bubble, but they already are: After two years of 
war in Iraq, the United States has suffered more than

13,000 casualties—11,500 wounded and 1,500 dead

*U.S. Readies for Draft*

   */Dave Eberhart, NewsMax.com/*
   */Friday, June 25, 2004/* 

Despite denials that the U.S. plans to re-institute the draft, the 
Pentagon has stepped up preparations for a new Selective Service System 
that could allow for a full-blown draft by next year.


I want my SUV. Damn the cost.

Tom Irwin wrote:


Hi All,
I think you can forget about that draft crap it just won't sell. The 
reserves are 25% behind on their recruitment and the army doesn't look 
like their going to make their yearly goals for a reason. Nobody wants 
to die or be maimed for oil. There are plenty of other alternatives 
and the kids know it. They aren't stupid. Any senator or congressman 
sponsoring or signing such a bill pretty much wants early retirement.

Tom Irwin


*From:* Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:24:34 -0300
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

I have - or did. I finally quit in frustration. I agree there are
some
excellent people in Government. By my guess 40% of the people did 80%
of the work. It drove me nuts. And the people that did work
threatened
the ones who didn't! We has a GS15 whose jobs was to watch TV and
instruct her assistant to send a payroll once every two weeks.
Nothing
else. I could see her from my desk - she never did anything.

I don't think a National Service commitment would be a bad thing -
especially if it were tied to financial aid.

As for the draft, I think all you will have to do wait awhile and
we'll
have one.


David M. Brockes wrote:

>Doesn't sound like you have "worked" in Government either.and
should be
>fired!! Most FTE's are very dedicated to doing a good job for the
people
>served (which includes themselves, who are also taxpayers)but
of course
>there always are those few afraid of their own shadow or who get
put into
>positions of responsibility when they shouldn't bejust like
"real"
>people in "real" jobs.
>Okay, a little over reactivebut then I think we should still
have a
>"Draft" for the military in this country (or something that
includes it).
>DB
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
]On
Behalf Of Mike Weaver
>Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 7:41 AM
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...
>
>
>That's what a lot of people don't understand. If you haven't
worked in
>the Gov't it doesn't make much sense. I was just telling someone that
>the latest IRS IT fiasco is actually not a failure in the eyes of the
>Gov't workers - only one person got fired, the FTE's got paid and the
>contractors got paid. Whether or not it worked was pretty
incidental to
>the process. The rules are:
>
>1. Don't get fired - still pretty hard to fire someone in the US.
>2. Don't make more work for anyone.
>3. Don't make your boss look bad.
>4. Don't get bad press.
>5. Inertia is better than doing something. Inertia won't get you
>fired, but doing something might.
>6. That's the way we've always done it.
>
>Appal Energy wrote:
>
>
>
>>Tom,
>>
>>Government is business. But not necessarily or precisely going about
>>the same business of any specific special interest businesses.
More to
>>the tune of going about the business of all business.
>>
>>How many times have you found yourself in the middle of a Freudian
>>slip, such as "In this company (country)...?"
>>
>>Think about it. The structure is precisely the same, with labor,
>>middle and upper level "management" and the occassional "stock
>>holder's" meeting (elections). In the interim, seldom does
management
>>change anything to the liking or needs of labor unless mandatory to
>>prevent a serious disruption of production flow. Even then, as
in the
>>case of oil, they hold out to the last possible moment rather than
>>seizing available opportunities.
>>
>>Call it poor leadership. Call it an attempt to maximize current
>>infrastructure and investment dollar. Call it whatever you wish. But
>>government is business, with one of its goals to insure its own
>>existance to the best of its capabilities.
>>
>>Todd Swearingen
>>
>>"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Tom Irwin wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Hi Todd,
>>>
>>>Yo

Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country

[Michael Redler]

Earl,
 
Earl wrote: "It seems to me that be requiring wealthy nations to "donate" any portion of their GDP is just another form of socialism, except on a global scale."
 
Giving it a name (i.e. socialism or ...ism), doesn't explain why you disagree. Please include something to support your position.
 
There are people in this list who (despite McCarthy's legacy) understand the value of socialism and even communism (not to be confused with Stalin's mislabeled brand of fascism) as a theoretical model for democracy.
 
Mike 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:48:58 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/CountryDale,I don't mean to deflate your dream, but why do we need the government beauracracy (of which the UN most certainly is) to guarranty these basic human rights? Shouldn't that be the responsibility of every person on the planet to protect his or her basic rights?It seems to me that be requiring wealthy nations to "donate" any portion of their GDP is just another form of socialism, except on a global scale.Your other point about not getting involved with those poorer nations is right on the money. The biggest terrorism problems in the US today are a direct result of our meddling in other nations' affairs. If we spent less time and money on controlling other countries, we could spend less time and money on counter terrorism
 measures. Maybe then my taxes will go down and I would be able to donate my own money to those poorer nations. But that, my friend, is truly just a dream.Regards,Earl Kinsley[EMAIL PROTECTED]--"That government is best which governs least." -- Thomas Paine- Original Message - From: Dale SetoTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:10 AMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/CountryThis is a very wise and informed comment that Keith made, and I totally agree. I hope someday that the UN will ingrain and apply four basic rights for every
 human on this planet, and they are;1) access to food2) access to clean water3) access to shelter4) personal securityI also beleive that all wealthy countries be required to donate just 2% of their GDP to a fund to help accomplish this. Just think of all the extra money we are spending on counter terrorism that could be put towards this goal. It would also thwart terrorism because terrorists would not be able to get a foothold or seek refige in the countries that our goodwill has touched. But our help must be unconditional. We must not get involved, or tell their country how to run it. All we would ask is that they be peaceful and abide international law. I know that this is just pie in the sky and whishfull thinking, but its just a dream of mine.Best wishes, Dale___
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Re: [Biofuel] titanium

[Tom Irwin]

Hi Bruno,
 
I think you have to break the glycerine off the fat or oil molecule so the alcohol can attach and form an ester plus water. UV light has the capacity to do that splitting and a lot more. it might be a little tricky figuring out the dosage.
 
Tom Irwin
 


From: Bruno M. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 11:54:36 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] titaniumUV light ?To destruct ( or help oxidise) molecules, how is that helpfull?Bruno M.~~At 14:53 10/08/2005, Joe wrote:>Very interesting. I have also been wondering about ways to add energy to >make the reaction go. One thing I was considering was ultraviolet >light. Anybody on the list have any knowledge or ideas about this?>>Joe>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:>>>Hi There:The following US patent offers making biodiesel by adding 15% MeOH>>and running the mix at 85degC past very high DC electrode to get>>100% conversion - no glycerine, it is converted to 1,2,3-proprionate.>>The only other byproduct is hydrogen. Very cool, just a little>>scary.http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=biodeisel&OS=biodeisel&RS=biodeisel >>http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7Ray== ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


 
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Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

[bob allen]

Draft, we don't need no stinkin' draft:

 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/04/01/bush_twins_volunteer/

Tom Irwin wrote:

Hi All,
 
I think you can forget about that draft crap it just won't sell. The 
reserves are 25% behind on their recruitment and the army doesn't look 
like their going to make their yearly goals for a reason. Nobody wants 
to die or be maimed for oil. There are plenty of other alternatives and 
the kids know it. They aren't stupid. Any senator or congressman 
sponsoring or signing such a bill pretty much wants early retirement.
 
Tom Irwin
 



*From:* Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:24:34 -0300
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

I have - or did. I finally quit in frustration. I agree there are some
excellent people in Government. By my guess 40% of the people did 80%
of the work. It drove me nuts. And the people that did work threatened
the ones who didn't! We has a GS15 whose jobs was to watch TV and
instruct her assistant to send a payroll once every two weeks. Nothing
else. I could see her from my desk - she never did anything.

I don't think a National Service commitment would be a bad thing -
especially if it were tied to financial aid.

As for the draft, I think all you will have to do wait awhile and we'll
have one.


David M. Brockes wrote:

 >Doesn't sound like you have "worked" in Government either.and
should be
 >fired!! Most FTE's are very dedicated to doing a good job for the
people
 >served (which includes themselves, who are also taxpayers)but
of course
 >there always are those few afraid of their own shadow or who get
put into
 >positions of responsibility when they shouldn't bejust like "real"
 >people in "real" jobs.
 >Okay, a little over reactivebut then I think we should still
have a
 >"Draft" for the military in this country (or something that
includes it).
 >DB
 >
 >-Original Message-
 >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
]On
Behalf Of Mike Weaver
 >Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 7:41 AM
 >To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

 >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...
 >
 >
 >That's what a lot of people don't understand. If you haven't worked in
 >the Gov't it doesn't make much sense. I was just telling someone that
 >the latest IRS IT fiasco is actually not a failure in the eyes of the
 >Gov't workers - only one person got fired, the FTE's got paid and the
 >contractors got paid. Whether or not it worked was pretty
incidental to
 >the process. The rules are:
 >
 >1. Don't get fired - still pretty hard to fire someone in the US.
 >2. Don't make more work for anyone.
 >3. Don't make your boss look bad.
 >4. Don't get bad press.
 >5. Inertia is better than doing something. Inertia won't get you
 >fired, but doing something might.
 >6. That's the way we've always done it.
 >
 >Appal Energy wrote:
 >
 >
 >
 >>Tom,
 >>
 >>Government is business. But not necessarily or precisely going about
 >>the same business of any specific special interest businesses.
More to
 >>the tune of going about the business of all business.
 >>
 >>How many times have you found yourself in the middle of a Freudian
 >>slip, such as "In this company (country)...?"
 >>
 >>Think about it. The structure is precisely the same, with labor,
 >>middle and upper level "management" and the occassional "stock
 >>holder's" meeting (elections). In the interim, seldom does management
 >>change anything to the liking or needs of labor unless mandatory to
 >>prevent a serious disruption of production flow. Even then, as in the
 >>case of oil, they hold out to the last possible moment rather than
 >>seizing available opportunities.
 >>
 >>Call it poor leadership. Call it an attempt to maximize current
 >>infrastructure and investment dollar. Call it whatever you wish. But
 >>government is business, with one of its goals to insure its own
 >>existance to the best of its capabilities.
 >>
 >>Todd Swearingen
 >>
 >>"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government."
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>Tom Irwin wrote:
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>>Hi Todd,
 >>>
 >>>You are such a hairsplitter. Big government or big corporate
 >>>agribusinesses they ane now synonyms at least in the G8 world. I
know
 >>>your just endeavoring to be accurate.
 >>>
 >>>Big Smile,
 >>>
 >>>Tom Irwin
 >>>
 >>>
 >>>
 >>> *

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

[Tom Irwin]

Hi Chris,
 
This year I teach Environmental Science, Physical Science, Earth Science, Chemistry and Pre-Algebra. It's a small school so we all teach multiple subjects.
 
Tom
 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:03:53 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshimai think so as well, i'm afraid. if they can seriously pursue projects like Total Information Awareness without compunction, then filtering the telecommunications of a governmental property would be like, at the autonomic nervous system level.what do you do at the school, tom? teacher? administrator?-chris b.In a message dated 8/10/05 8:16:40 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:< >Hi Keith,> >> >You misinterpret my suspician. My suspician is that the site is> >blocked from me. I work at an embassy school and will try again at> >home.>> Sounds most improbable. >> > Actually quite probable considering I was there as the school was > built and the computing and telephone systems were put in. The embassy > folks came in right after the normal lines were installed to place > some additional equipment to the same lines. Neither I nor our > computer systems person has any idea what that equipment does. Yet low > and behold upon returning home I can access the site you mentioned. > Big Brother is always watching. >>___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


 
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Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

[Tom Irwin]

Hi All,
 
I think you can forget about that draft crap it just won't sell. The reserves are 25% behind on their recruitment and the army doesn't look like their going to make their yearly goals for a reason. Nobody wants to die or be maimed for oil. There are plenty of other alternatives and the kids know it. They aren't stupid. Any senator or congressman sponsoring or signing such a bill pretty much wants early retirement.
 
Tom Irwin
 


From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:24:34 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...I have - or did. I finally quit in frustration. I agree there are some excellent people in Government. By my guess 40% of the people did 80% of the work. It drove me nuts. And the people that did work threatened the ones who didn't! We has a GS15 whose jobs was to watch TV and instruct her assistant to send a payroll once every two weeks. Nothing else. I could see her from my desk - she never did anything. I don't think a National Service commitment would be a bad thing - especially if it were tied to financial aid.As for the draft, I think all you will have to do wait awhile and we'll have one.David M. Brockes wrote:>Doesn't sound like you have "worked" in Government either.and should be>fired!! Most FTE's are very dedicated to doing a good job for the people>served (which includes themselves, who are also taxpayers)but of course>there always are those few afraid of their own shadow or who get put into>positions of responsibility when they shouldn't bejust like "real">people in "real" jobs.>Okay, a little over reactivebut then I think we should still have a>"Draft" for the military in this country (or something that includes it).>DB>>-Original Message->From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Mike Weaver>Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 7:41 AM>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...>>>That's what a lot of people don't understand. If you haven't worked in>the Gov't it doesn't make much sense. I was just telling someone that>the latest IRS IT fiasco is actually not a failure in the eyes of the>Gov't workers - only one person got fired, the FTE's got paid and the>contractors got paid. Whether or not it worked was pretty incidental to>the process. The rules are:>>1. Don't get fired - still pretty hard to fire someone in the US.>2. Don't make more work for anyone.>3. Don't make your boss look bad.>4. Don't get bad press.>5. Inertia is better than doing something. Inertia won't get you>fired, but doing something might.>6. That's the way we've always done it.>>Appal Energy wrote:>> >>>Tom,Government is business. But not necessarily or precisely going about>>the same business of any specific special interest businesses. More to>>the tune of going about the business of all business.How many times have you found yourself in the middle of a Freudian>>slip, such as "In this company (country)...?"Think about it. The structure is precisely the same, with labor,>>middle and upper level "management" and the occassional "stock>>holder's" meeting (elections). In the interim, seldom does management>>change anything to the liking or needs of labor unless mandatory to>>prevent a serious disruption of production flow. Even then, as in the>>case of oil, they hold out to the last possible moment rather than>>seizing available opportunities.Call it poor leadership. Call it an attempt to maximize current>>infrastructure and investment dollar. Call it whatever you wish. But>>government is business, with one of its goals to insure its own>>existance to the best of its capabilities.Todd Swearingen"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.">>Tom Irwin wrote: >Hi Todd,>>You are such a hairsplitter. Big government or big corporate>>>agribusinesses they ane now synonyms at least in the G8 world. I know>>>your just endeavoring to be accurate.>>Big Smile,>>Tom Irwin>>>> *From:* Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]>>> *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>>> *Sent:* Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:57:35 -0300>>> *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...>> Not necessarily.>> More like the big hand(s) of soybean interest(s) manipulating a>>> set of>>> controls to as best as possible "guarantee" that they get their>>> research, testing and investment monies back. Forget that the monies>>> they used are from a per bushel tax on beans, designated for use to>>> advance the production and consumption of soy, which biodiesel does.>> What they want is the tax money to operate off of and then after>>>they>>> spend it they want it replenished.>> The government just went along in the processing of incorporating>>> biodiesel as an EPA registered fuel.>> Then again, on the oth

Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country

[Tom Irwin]

Greeting Earl,
 
I'd love to see the U.S. stop meddling in other countries. Any chance you can get them to stop sending their 700 military advisors to the border of Peru and Bolivia with plans to ship a proposed division? While you are at it can you get the governemnet to stop wasting your tax money supporting American agribusinesses. Then perhaps the rest of the third world will be able to begin to fend for itself.
 
Just a thought or two,
 
Tom Irwin
 


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 14:48:58 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/CountryDale,I don't mean to deflate your dream, but why do we need the government beauracracy (of which the UN most certainly is) to guarranty these basic human rights? Shouldn't that be the responsibility of every person on the planet to protect his or her basic rights?It seems to me that be requiring wealthy nations to "donate" any portion of their GDP is just another form of socialism, except on a global scale.Your other point about not getting involved with those poorer nations is right on the money. The biggest terrorism problems in the US today are a direct result of our meddling in other nations' affairs. If we spent less time and money on controlling other countries, we could spend less time and money on counter terrorism measures. Maybe then my taxes will go down and I would be able to donate my own money to those poorer nations. But that, my friend, is truly just a dream.Regards,Earl Kinsley[EMAIL PROTECTED]--"That government is best which governs least." -- Thomas Paine- Original Message - From: Dale SetoTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:10 AMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/CountryThis is a very wise and informed comment that Keith made, and I totally agree. I hope someday that the UN will ingrain and apply four basic rights for every human on this planet, and they are;1) access to food2) access to clean water3) access to shelter4) personal securityI also beleive that all wealthy countries be required to donate just 2% of their GDP to a fund to help accomplish this. Just think of all the extra money we are spending on counter terrorism that could be put towards this goal. It would also thwart terrorism because terrorists would not be able to get a foothold or seek refige in the countries that our goodwill has touched. But our help must be unconditional. We must not get involved, or tell their country how to run it. All we would ask is that they be peaceful and abide international law. I know that this is just pie in the sky and whishfull thinking, but its just a dream of mine.Best wishes, Dale___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/


 
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Re: [Biofuel] move over vw tdi?

[Mike Weaver]

6sp w/ a diesel!

I want it!

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

if they offer the diesel in the states, biod users may have a new favorite 
small car:


http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&newsid=9097

-chris b.

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Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country

[KinsleyForPrez08]

Dale,

I don't mean to deflate your dream, but why do we need the government 
beauracracy (of which the UN most certainly is) to guarranty these basic 
human rights?  Shouldn't that be the responsibility of every person on the 
planet to protect his or her basic rights?


It seems to me that be requiring wealthy nations to "donate" any portion of 
their GDP is just another form of socialism, except on a global scale.


Your other point about not getting involved with those poorer nations is 
right on the money.  The biggest terrorism problems in the US today are a 
direct result of our meddling in other nations' affairs.  If we spent less 
time and money on controlling other countries, we could spend less time and 
money on counter terrorism measures.  Maybe then my taxes will go down and I 
would be able to donate my own money to those poorer nations.  But that, my 
friend, is truly just a dream.


Regards,

Earl Kinsley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
"That government is best which governs least."  --  Thomas Paine

- Original Message - 
From: Dale Seto

To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The New Blue States/Country


This is a very wise and informed comment that Keith made, and I totally 
agree. I hope someday that the UN will ingrain and apply four basic rights 
for every human on this planet, and they are;

1)  access to food
2) access to clean water
3) access to shelter
4) personal security

I also beleive that all wealthy countries be required to donate just 2% of 
their GDP to a fund to help accomplish this. Just think of all the extra 
money we are spending on counter terrorism that could be put towards this 
goal. It would also thwart terrorism because terrorists would not  be able 
to get a foothold or seek refige in the countries that our goodwill has 
touched. But our help must be unconditional. We must not get involved, or 
tell their country how to run it. All we would ask is that they be peaceful 
and abide international law. I know that this is just pie in the sky and 
whishfull thinking, but its just a dream of mine.



Best wishes, Dale


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[Biofuel] move over vw tdi?

[capt3d]

if they offer the diesel in the states, biod users may have a new favorite 
small car:

http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&newsid=9097

-chris b.

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Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

[Mike Weaver]

I have - or did.  I finally quit in frustration.  I agree there are some 
excellent people in Government.  By my guess 40% of the people did 80% 
of the work.  It drove me nuts.  And the people that did work threatened 
the ones who didn't!  We has a GS15 whose jobs was to watch TV and 
instruct her assistant to send a payroll once every two weeks.  Nothing 
else.  I could see her from my desk - she never did anything. 

I don't think a National Service commitment would be a bad thing - 
especially if it were tied to financial aid.


As for the draft, I think all you will have to do wait awhile and we'll 
have one.



David M. Brockes wrote:


Doesn't sound like you have "worked" in Government either.and should be
fired!! Most FTE's are very dedicated to doing a good job for the people
served (which includes themselves, who are also taxpayers)but of course
there always are those few afraid of their own shadow or who get put into
positions of responsibility when they shouldn't bejust like "real"
people in "real" jobs.
Okay, a little over reactivebut then I think we should still have a
"Draft" for the military in this country (or something that includes it).
DB

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Weaver
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 7:41 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...


That's what a lot of people don't understand.  If you haven't worked in
the Gov't it doesn't make much sense.  I was just telling someone that
the latest IRS IT fiasco is actually not a failure in the eyes of the
Gov't workers - only one person got fired, the FTE's got paid and the
contractors got paid.  Whether or not it worked was pretty incidental to
the process.  The rules are:

1.  Don't get fired - still pretty hard to fire someone in the US.
2.  Don't make more work for anyone.
3. Don't make your boss look bad.
4.  Don't get bad press.
5.  Inertia is better than doing something.  Inertia won't get you
fired, but doing something might.
6.  That's the way we've always done it.

Appal Energy wrote:

 


Tom,

Government is business. But not necessarily or precisely going about
the same business of any specific special interest businesses. More to
the tune of going about the business of all business.

How many times have you found yourself in the middle of a Freudian
slip, such as "In this company (country)...?"

Think about it. The structure is precisely the same, with labor,
middle and upper level "management" and the occassional "stock
holder's" meeting (elections). In the interim, seldom does management
change anything to the liking or needs of labor unless mandatory to
prevent a serious disruption of production flow. Even then, as in the
case of oil, they hold out to the last possible moment rather than
seizing available opportunities.

Call it poor leadership. Call it an attempt to maximize current
infrastructure and investment dollar. Call it whatever you wish. But
government is business, with one of its goals to insure its own
existance to the best of its capabilities.

Todd Swearingen

"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government."




Tom Irwin wrote:

   


Hi Todd,

You are such a hairsplitter. Big government or big corporate
agribusinesses they ane now synonyms at least in the G8 world. I know
your just endeavoring to be accurate.

Big Smile,

Tom Irwin



   *From:* Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
   *Sent:* Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:57:35 -0300
   *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

   Not necessarily.

   More like the big hand(s) of soybean interest(s) manipulating a
   set of
   controls to as best as possible "guarantee" that they get their
   research, testing and investment monies back. Forget that the monies
   they used are from a per bushel tax on beans, designated for use to
   advance the production and consumption of soy, which biodiesel does.

   What they want is the tax money to operate off of and then after
they
   spend it they want it replenished.

   The government just went along in the processing of incorporating
   biodiesel as an EPA registered fuel.

   Then again, on the other hand, the soybean interests could have
   kept the
   Tier I & II health effects studies for their use only as well as
   applicable only to soybean oil. But that's not how it ended up, as
   fuel
   from all oil and fat feedstocks fall under the rubric of
"biodiesel."

   One could say that the EPA lobbied to keep the gate open a little
   wider
   than strictly soy, which in turn served the public's interest rather
   than specifically the special interest.

   Nobody is talking.

   Todd Swearingen


   Tom Irwin wrote:

   > Hi All,
   >
   > Do I detect the big hand of government squeezing the small
business
   > owner for corporate Am

RE: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

[David M. Brockes]

Doesn't sound like you have "worked" in Government either.and should be
fired!! Most FTE's are very dedicated to doing a good job for the people
served (which includes themselves, who are also taxpayers)but of course
there always are those few afraid of their own shadow or who get put into
positions of responsibility when they shouldn't bejust like "real"
people in "real" jobs.
Okay, a little over reactivebut then I think we should still have a
"Draft" for the military in this country (or something that includes it).
DB

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Weaver
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 7:41 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...


That's what a lot of people don't understand.  If you haven't worked in
the Gov't it doesn't make much sense.  I was just telling someone that
the latest IRS IT fiasco is actually not a failure in the eyes of the
Gov't workers - only one person got fired, the FTE's got paid and the
contractors got paid.  Whether or not it worked was pretty incidental to
the process.  The rules are:

1.  Don't get fired - still pretty hard to fire someone in the US.
2.  Don't make more work for anyone.
3. Don't make your boss look bad.
4.  Don't get bad press.
5.  Inertia is better than doing something.  Inertia won't get you
fired, but doing something might.
6.  That's the way we've always done it.

Appal Energy wrote:

> Tom,
>
> Government is business. But not necessarily or precisely going about
> the same business of any specific special interest businesses. More to
> the tune of going about the business of all business.
>
> How many times have you found yourself in the middle of a Freudian
> slip, such as "In this company (country)...?"
>
> Think about it. The structure is precisely the same, with labor,
> middle and upper level "management" and the occassional "stock
> holder's" meeting (elections). In the interim, seldom does management
> change anything to the liking or needs of labor unless mandatory to
> prevent a serious disruption of production flow. Even then, as in the
> case of oil, they hold out to the last possible moment rather than
> seizing available opportunities.
>
> Call it poor leadership. Call it an attempt to maximize current
> infrastructure and investment dollar. Call it whatever you wish. But
> government is business, with one of its goals to insure its own
> existance to the best of its capabilities.
>
> Todd Swearingen
>
> "The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government."
>
>
>
>
> Tom Irwin wrote:
>
>> Hi Todd,
>>
>> You are such a hairsplitter. Big government or big corporate
>> agribusinesses they ane now synonyms at least in the G8 world. I know
>> your just endeavoring to be accurate.
>>
>> Big Smile,
>>
>> Tom Irwin
>>
>>
>> 
>> *From:* Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>> *Sent:* Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:57:35 -0300
>> *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...
>>
>> Not necessarily.
>>
>> More like the big hand(s) of soybean interest(s) manipulating a
>> set of
>> controls to as best as possible "guarantee" that they get their
>> research, testing and investment monies back. Forget that the monies
>> they used are from a per bushel tax on beans, designated for use to
>> advance the production and consumption of soy, which biodiesel does.
>>
>> What they want is the tax money to operate off of and then after
>> they
>> spend it they want it replenished.
>>
>> The government just went along in the processing of incorporating
>> biodiesel as an EPA registered fuel.
>>
>> Then again, on the other hand, the soybean interests could have
>> kept the
>> Tier I & II health effects studies for their use only as well as
>> applicable only to soybean oil. But that's not how it ended up, as
>> fuel
>> from all oil and fat feedstocks fall under the rubric of
>> "biodiesel."
>>
>> One could say that the EPA lobbied to keep the gate open a little
>> wider
>> than strictly soy, which in turn served the public's interest rather
>> than specifically the special interest.
>>
>> Nobody is talking.
>>
>> Todd Swearingen
>>
>>
>> Tom Irwin wrote:
>>
>> > Hi All,
>> >
>> > Do I detect the big hand of government squeezing the small
>> business
>> > owner for corporate America here?
>> >
>> > Tom
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>> 
>> > *From:* Ric Cuchetto [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> ]
>> > *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>> 
>> > *Sent:* Tue, 09 Aug 2005 12:50:42 -0300
>> > *Subject:* RE: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...
>> >
>> > ASTM testing is at the end 

Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes

[Mike Weaver]

Sorry about your shoe.  I though I had used all my sarcasm up...


John Hayes wrote:


Dude. I think he dripped some sarcasm on my shoe.

jh

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


er, sorry, but were you being sarcastic or serious?

-chris

In a message dated 8/10/05 8:56:37 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< "The American way of life is not negotiable."

I personally feel I need a huge SUV for my lifestyle.   Why, just the
other day I drove my V10  Excursion to WalMart to get a pencil.  I could
have walked, but that's not The American Way.  I personally am furious
about  gas prices in the US. I'm not sure who I'm furious with, but I
think it might be the Democrats.  I'm pretty sure I'm also furious with
the Saudis.  I was furious with Saddam, what with his WMD and the whole
9/11 thing, but I think we all agree that's been taken care off.  I am
very angry that Asians hold most of our government debt, but I am also
extremely upset that S. Korea mused aloud about diversifying out of 
dollars.



Taxes.  I'm very mad about taxes.  I just sold my palatial mansion in
Palm Beach and have to pay 15% capital gains!!  Thank goodness my
gardener, Roberto, pays 28% on his wages or it could have been worse.


Mike, The Ugly American >>

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Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes

[John Hayes]

Dude. I think he dripped some sarcasm on my shoe.

jh

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

er, sorry, but were you being sarcastic or serious?

-chris

In a message dated 8/10/05 8:56:37 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< "The American way of life is not negotiable." 



I personally feel I need a huge SUV for my lifestyle.   Why, just the 

other day I drove my V10  Excursion to WalMart to get a pencil.  I could 

have walked, but that's not The American Way.  I personally am furious 

about  gas prices in the US. I'm not sure who I'm furious with, but I 

think it might be the Democrats.  I'm pretty sure I'm also furious with 

the Saudis.  I was furious with Saddam, what with his WMD and the whole 

9/11 thing, but I think we all agree that's been taken care off.  I am 

very angry that Asians hold most of our government debt, but I am also 


extremely upset that S. Korea mused aloud about diversifying out of dollars.


Taxes.  I'm very mad about taxes.  I just sold my palatial mansion in 

Palm Beach and have to pay 15% capital gains!!  Thank goodness my 


gardener, Roberto, pays 28% on his wages or it could have been worse.


Mike, The Ugly American >>

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--
John E Hayes, M.S.
Instructor, Dietetics Program, DIET 203 / DIET 215
Doctoral Student, Nutritional Sciences
University of Connecticut - 326 Koons Hall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 860.486.0007


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Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

[bob allen]

Howdy  Mike,

Mike Weaver wrote:
That's what a lot of people don't understand.  If you haven't worked in 
the Gov't it doesn't make much sense. 



I think it makes sense,  government service or not.  It is simple self 
preservation.


 I was just telling someone that
the latest IRS IT fiasco is actually not a failure in the eyes of the 
Gov't workers - only one person got fired, the FTE's got paid and the 
contractors got paid.  Whether or not it worked was pretty incidental to 
the process.  The rules are:


1.  Don't get fired - still pretty hard to fire someone in the US.


o really?  Arkansas, as are many other states,  is a "right to work" 
state, where employment is at the discretion of the employer, meaning no 
reason is needed to fire an employee.  Certain professions such as 
teaching afford some protection (tenure) but all it does is require 
proof that one is not fullfiling the obligations of the profession. 
Granted, goverment service may require more hoops to jump thru to fire 
an employee than other employees, it is not all that hard even in 
goverment service.  and it is a "piece of cake" in the private sector.



2.  Don't make more work for anyone.


  makes sense to me. why would anyone want to make more work?  If I am 
going to work more, shouldn't I get paid more? If an employer doesn't 
want to pay more why should I want to work more?



3. Don't make your boss look bad.


 again this is reasonable- and there is some albeit weak protection for 
making the boss look bad in the form of whistle blower laws.



4.  Don't get bad press.
5.  Inertia is better than doing something.  Inertia won't get you 
fired, but doing something might.

6.  That's the way we've always done it.



your rules actually apply to all walks of life- work, marraige, etc.

:)

--
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

"Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes

[capt3d]

there's actually a fair amount of activity in this area.  try a google search 
with the keywords 'diesel' and 'motorcycle', or "diesel motorcycle".  there's 
also some info compiled on the JTF site:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bikes.html

-chris b.

In a message dated 8/10/05 5:57:29 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< where are the tdi motorbikes >>

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Re: [Biofuel] titanium

[Joe Street]

I'm not sure it is that simple.  I read the abstract and clearly the 
energy is coupled acoustically into the oil.  I assume the transducer 
they used is similar to the ones found in ultrasonic disrupters used for 
breaking cell walls (40 Khz) and megasonic cleaning systems which are 
used in the semiconductor industry for cleaning photomasks.  These 
operate in the Mhz frequency range but couple energy acoustically rather 
than through RF electromagnetic agitation of molecules as is sugested by 
the word 'microwave'  Sonic energy causes microcavitation in fluids and 
when the tiny bubbles colapse they launch micro shockwaves that can do 
surprising things. I had also considered using microwaves in the way you 
suggest similar to the way a downstream plasma source works but in this 
case it would be oil in the tube rather than a rarefied gas.  Oil 
molecules have an absorbtion peak somewhere around the 2.5 Ghz frequency 
that typical microwave oven magnetrons produce so energy would be easily 
coupled through this method.  I am not a chemist but basically the idea 
is that if you can inject enough energy to kick electrons out of thier 
happy orbitals you can then cause chemical bonds to break or under the 
right conditions, to form.  Photons in the UV spectrum are very 
energetic and in the presence of the stoichiometric ratio of alcohol and 
base I am wondering if coupling energy into the system in the right way 
can push the reaction to completion without the need for extra alcohol 
as a catalyst. That would directly reduce the cost of producing 
biodiesel and also mean that the glycerine could be alcohol free. 

Ahh if only I didn't need to sleep, eat, and go to a job every day I 
might have time to play around and find out some answers.


Joe

bob allen wrote:

the only difference between this procedure and the usual method is the 
way you heat the mixture; that is, using microwaves substitutes for 
heating by other methods.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I have seen ultrasonic (microwave) at

http://tinyurl.com/8cad7   --in the reactor

and

http://tinyurl.com/bo3by  -- in an exit tube from the reactor

both produce glycerine byproduct.

There are a couple of these producers out there who raised there hands
a while back but I cannot find the post again.

Ray

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 08:53:37 -0400, Joe Street  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Very interesting.  I have also been wondering about ways to add 
energy  to make the reaction go.  One thing I was considering was 
ultraviolet  light.  Anybody on the list have any knowledge or ideas 
about this?


Joe

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi There:

The following US patent offers making biodiesel by adding 15% MeOH
and running the mix at 85degC past very high DC electrode to get
100% conversion - no glycerine, it is converted to 1,2,3-proprionate.
The only other byproduct is hydrogen.  Very cool, just a little
scary.

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=biodeisel&OS=biodeisel&RS=biodeisel  
http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7


Ray

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:10:14 -0400, francisco j burgos   
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Dear Mr. Farmer:
seems a good idea. Keep searching, wish you good luck.
F.J. Burgos

- Original Message - From: "Jeremy Farmer"   
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 12:45 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] titanium


Just wondering if anyone had any input.  I have been thinking 
about   Biodiesel, and I came across a mosquito trap at the 
hardware store  that  uses propaine run across titanium to crack 
the hydrocarbons  down to CO2  and attracting mosquitos.  I was 
wondering if the same  theory could be  used to make biodiesel?  
Does anyone have any ideas?


Thanks,

Jeremy Farmer
JBF Holdings LLC
2601 Lazy Hollow #603
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832-414-4217
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes

[capt3d]

er, sorry, but were you being sarcastic or serious?

-chris

In a message dated 8/10/05 8:56:37 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< "The American way of life is not negotiable." 


I personally feel I need a huge SUV for my lifestyle.   Why, just the 

other day I drove my V10  Excursion to WalMart to get a pencil.  I could 

have walked, but that's not The American Way.  I personally am furious 

about  gas prices in the US. I'm not sure who I'm furious with, but I 

think it might be the Democrats.  I'm pretty sure I'm also furious with 

the Saudis.  I was furious with Saddam, what with his WMD and the whole 

9/11 thing, but I think we all agree that's been taken care off.  I am 

very angry that Asians hold most of our government debt, but I am also 

extremely upset that S. Korea mused aloud about diversifying out of dollars.


Taxes.  I'm very mad about taxes.  I just sold my palatial mansion in 

Palm Beach and have to pay 15% capital gains!!  Thank goodness my 

gardener, Roberto, pays 28% on his wages or it could have been worse.


Mike, The Ugly American >>

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Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly and jellybiofuel

[Keith Addison]

There is (apparently) more than one recipe for sterno.

We had a thread going a while back that included a method: calcium 
acetate (egg shells and vinegar) with ethanol.


This is from a previous message on ethanol gel:



Keith Addison wrote:

"Mix 11 grams of Calcium Acetate with 30 mg of water. Make sure all 
the Calcium Acetate is dissolved, this might take an hour of 
occasional stirring. Measure 10 mg of the solution. Slowly add 40 mg 
of ethanol. As you add the ethanol, the mixture should gel 
instantly. Pour off any remaining ethanol (a very small amount). 
Because the mixture gels instantly, you do not have to combine the 
two until you need to use it for cooking."


I made some Calcium Acetate by neutralizing acetic acid with lime. 
Works well, gels immediately, burns very nicely, but it's not very 
stable, best to make it when you need it. This way, since it's 
bioduels in the Third World rural development setting that we're 
most interested in, everything required is probably available 
locally, or could be. Ethanol can be brewed on-site (and probably is 
already), even if it's not absolute; acetic acid can be brewed the 
same way, by aerating the mash, and agricultural lime is fairly 
ubiquitous.


Also, from Hoagy ("chalk and vinegar, sunshine and moonshine"):


> > Some other jelled gelled alcohol ideas --
> >
> > Zen Gelled Alcohol Stoves - Sterno-like Stoves
> > Jelled/Gelled Alcohol
> > http://zenstoves.net/Sterno.htm
> > Extreme do it yourselfers can make their own gelled fuel
> > at home with alcohol and calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4).
> > Either methanol or ethanol can be used for fuel.
> > Calcium acetate (C4H6CaO4) can be purchased or made
> > by slowly dissolving calcium carbonate (eggshells or chalk)
> > in vinegar, filtering, and allowing to dry.
> > If you are new to chemistry take a look at
> > this high school science project page.
> >
> > Chemical Reactions and Solid Fuel
> >
> >http://www.montvilleschools.org/highschool/science/edorff/chemistry/fu
> >elslab.htm
> > A solid camping fuel like Sternoô was discovered several years ago
> > when a group of campers forgot to pack fuel for their camp stove.
> > Because the area prohibited use of campfires, the campers needed to
> > use an alternative fuel source.  One of the campers made a gel
> > that they could use as a solid fuel.  To make this gel,
> > chalk was crushed and mixed with vinegar.  The resulting mixture
> > was filtered through a napkin and the liquid collected was
> > heated using a solar reflector.  Some rubbing alcohol
> > was poured into the solution to form a gel which burned.
> >   Step 1:  Reaction between chalk (calcium carbonate) and
> >   vinegar (acetic acid, dilute) to produce
> >   carbon dioxide, water and calcium acetate . . .
> >   Step 2:  Filtration of unreacted chalk from the mixture
> >   to leave a solution of calcium acetate in water . . .
> >   Step 3:  Removal of excess water from calcium acetate solution . . .
> >   Step 4:  Mixing alcohol with calcium acetate to form fuel . . .
> >   Step 5:  Combustion of fuel produced . . .
> >   Step 6:  Evaluation of fuels produced . . . [more]
> >
> > Baking Bread (And Other Recipes) With An Alcohol Stove
> > http://trailquest.net/baking.html
> >
> > Cloudwalker's Homemade Alcohol Stove
> > http://www.cloudwalkersatpage.com/page014.html
> >
> > The Gelled Alcohol Stove Fuel
> > - Calcium Acetate
> > http://wings.interfree.it/html/Gelalcohol.html





Mike

TarynToo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Isn't "jelly solid ethanol" Sterno fuel? Or is Sterno made with
methanol?

It's hard to imagine that there's any energy advantage to jellied fuels
over woody plants for cooking purposes, I know that many third world
areas have extreme shortages of cooking fuels or firewood, but it seems
like that's a distribution problem, more than a real shortage.


Using firewood doesn't necessarily mean deforestation as often 
alleged, very often it means local forests are maintained instead. 
Where there are shortages (very serious shortages on some places) 
it's usually due more to other reasons. Indoor smoke pollution is 
probably a bigger problem than energy efficiency, and indeed energy 
efficiency itself usually boils down to making the best use of what 
you've got rather than a matter of comparative btu's or whatever.


This bit of a previous message might be of interest:


> >Not all the work with improved woodstoves is convincing. Often the
> >target communities also aren't convinced. Some comparisons have found
> >that the old three-stone woodfire can be as efficient or more
> >efficient if it's done well. It might be a better idea to find the
> >best fire builder in the valley and get him to give everyone else
> >lessons on how to do it properly. There might also be a bigger need
> >for good chimneys to take the smoke out than for improved woodstoves.
> >Or ethanol gel, eh? Or a good vegoil stove design that a village
> >blacksmith can produce.


In a projec

Re: [Biofuel] Seed terrorism

[Keith Addison]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


- Original Message -
From: "rich" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Seed terrorism



Potential solution: Maybe create a non-proprietary seed bank?




Hi Rich-  I believe grass roots seed banks and seed exchanges already exist.
Perhaps the concerned non-gardener/producer can help the cause by purchasing
and storing a portion of the surplus of seeds each year, every year?
insuring a large viable stock in hand.
Doug


This page and the links there should tell you all you need to know 
about the seeds cris (crises), including heritage seeds, seed 
networks etc:


http://journeytoforever.org/seeds.html
Seeds of the world: Journey to Forever

Best wishes

Keith


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[Biofuel] Precaution and Cholera in Peru

[Keith Addison]

Rachel's #823: Precaution and Cholera in Peru

9 Aug 2005

^ 
^ RACHEL'S ENVIRONMENT & 
HEALTH NEWS #823

http://www.rachel.org
August 4, 2005

^ 
^


Urban Legend: Precaution And Cholera In Peru

By Peter Montague and Tim Montague

Anyone who is paying attention to the "precautionary principle" has 
heard the story that precaution caused a cholera epidemic in Peru in 
1991. The story isn't true -- and it was revealed as untrue in 1992 
-- but that hasn't stopped it from being told, retold, and told 
again. It has now taken on the characteristics of an urban legend 
with a life all its own.[1]


The Precautionary Principle

As our readers know, the precautionary principle is a modern way of 
making decisions to minimize harm, which can be described in five 
parts:


(1) Set a goal by an open, participatory process;

(2) Examine all reasonable ways of achieving the goal, with the 
expectation that the least harmful way will be chosen;


(3) In the face of uncertainty, shift the burden of proof, giving the 
benefit of the doubt to nature, public health, and community well- 
being;


(4) Monitor results, heed early warnings and take further action, as 
needed, to prevent harm.


(5) Throughout, give a real "say" to -- and honor the knowledge of -- 
the people who will be affected by the decisions.


Cholera in Peru in 1991

An epidemic of cholera occurred in Peru in 1991. Cholera is not a 
regular visitor to Peru -- the last such epidemic had occurred in 
1867.[2] Nevertheless, cholera is a powerful killer disease, 
well-known to public health specialists, and no one takes it lightly. 
Cholera is characterized by high fever, awful abdominal cramps, and 
diarrhea so bad that it can readily kill its victim by dehydration 
unless the lost fluids are replaced.


Cholera can be prevented by putting disinfectants into drinking water 
supplies. Chlorine is the most common disinfectant, added to 
municipal water supplies to kill bacteria including the Vibrio 
cholerae bacteria that can cause cholera. But chlorinating water 
creates chlorination byproducts in the water, called trihalomethanes, 
which can cause cancer. In the U.S., with a population approaching 
300 million, chlorination byproducts cause an estimated 700 cases of 
cancer each year.[3] Cholera, on the other hand, can kill thousands 
quickly if an epidemic gets started.


The Urban Legend of Precaution Causing Cholera in Peru

The "precaution caused cholera in Peru" legend goes like this: In 
1991, as a precautionary measure, health officials in Peru stopped 
chlorinating their drinking water to avoid the danger of cancer from 
chlorination byproducts -- thus causing the deaths of thousands of 
Peruvians from an outbreak of waterborne cholera. As the legend has 
it, this was a case of "risk assessment gone wrong."[4] In other 
words, Peruvian public health officials balanced two hazards and made 
a bad choice: they turned off their chlorination systems to avoid a 
small problem, thus creating a much larger problem. That is how the 
legend goes.


Opponents of the precautionary principle -- mainly friends of the 
chemical industry -- seized upon the "cholera in Peru" legend and 
began to tell it and retell it at every opportunity.


In 2001, Henry I. Miller, a professor at Stanford University -- and a 
relentless opponent of the precautionary principle -- recounted the 
"cholera in Peru" legend as follows:


"By the late 1980s, radical environmentalists were attempting to 
convince water authorities around the world that carcinogenic 
byproducts from drinking-water chlorination might constitute a 
potential danger. Mired in a budget crisis, officials in the Peruvian 
government spun such allegations into the basis for discontinuing 
chlorination of drinking water in much of their country. That move 
contributed to the acceleration and spread of Latin America's 
1991-1996 cholera epidemic, which killed at least 11,000 of its more 
than 1.3 million sufferers."[5]


In 2004, C.T. "Kip" Howlett, director of the U.S. Chlorine Chemistry 
Council, re-told the "cholera in Peru" legend this way:


"In Peru, in the early 1990s, public health officials responded to an 
antichlorine campaign by stopping proper chlorination of their 
drinking water. The results were predictable and horrific. Within 
months, a cholera epidemic swept through the country, eventually 
causing 1.3 million cases of illness and 13,000 deaths."[6]


It turns out that the "cholera in Peru" story is just plain wrong, 
and scientists have known it was wrong since 1992. Yet scholars like 
Henry Miller and Kip Howlett -- and dozens of others who are seeking 
ways to discredit the precautionary principle -- have continued to 
repeat it. As we shall see, one can only conclude that either these 
scholars are intentionally repe

Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

[capt3d]

sheesh, this is so not true.  we just recently had a thread along precisely 
these lines.

it is extremely easy for an employer to terminate an employee.  the employer 
does not have as much lattitude with a unionized workforce, but even there it 
is not nearly as "hard" to fire someone as is commonly represented.  there's 
some truth to the notion that, if you're part of a union it's hard to get 
fired, but this has more to do with accomodations that management and union 
leadership make with one another, than with limitations on the employer's 
powers.

-chris b.


In a message dated 8/10/05 8:41:19 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< The rules are:


1.  Don't get fired - still pretty hard to fire someone in the US. >>


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Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

[capt3d]

i think so as well, i'm afraid.  if they can seriously pursue projects like 
Total Information Awareness without compunction, then filtering the 
telecommunications of a governmental property would be like, at the autonomic 
nervous 
system level.

what do you do at the school, tom?  teacher?  administrator?

-chris b.

In a message dated 8/10/05 8:16:40 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< > >Hi Keith,
> >
> >You misinterpret my suspician. My suspician is that the site is
> >blocked from me. I work at an embassy school and will try again at
> >home.
>
> Sounds most improbable. 
>
>  
> Actually quite probable considering I was there as the school was 
> built and the computing and telephone systems were put in. The embassy 
> folks came in right after the normal lines were installed to place 
> some additional equipment to the same lines. Neither I nor our 
> computer systems person has any idea what that equipment does. Yet low 
> and behold upon returning home I can access the site you mentioned. 
> Big Brother is always watching. >>

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Re: [Biofuel] Seed terrorism

[Gavin Wheeler]

On Tuesday 09 August 2005 23:11, rich wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
> >Hi Rich-  I believe grass roots seed banks and seed exchanges already
> > exist. 
[...]
> Where would I find such seed banks?  Any online references?

In the UK, at least, one of the better known heritage seed libraries is at the 
Henry Doubleday Research Association. Their website is at 
http://www.hdra.org.uk/hsl/index.htm

I'm sure there are equivalents in most countries - try asking at your nearest 
botanic gardens.

Gavin

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Re: [Biofuel] titanium

[Bruno M.]

UV light ?
To destruct ( or help oxidise) molecules, how is that helpfull?

Bruno M.
~~
At 14:53 10/08/2005, Joe wrote:

Very interesting.  I have also been wondering about ways to add energy to 
make the reaction go.  One thing I was considering was ultraviolet 
light.  Anybody on the list have any knowledge or ideas about this?


Joe

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi There:

The following US patent offers making biodiesel by adding 15% MeOH
and running the mix at 85degC past very high DC electrode to get
100% conversion - no glycerine, it is converted to 1,2,3-proprionate.
The only other byproduct is hydrogen.  Very cool, just a little
scary.

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=biodeisel&OS=biodeisel&RS=biodeisel 



http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7

Ray
== 



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Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes

[Mike Weaver]

I think our president made our position clear:

"The American way of life is not negotiable." 

I personally feel I need a huge SUV for my lifestyle.   Why, just the 
other day I drove my V10  Excursion to WalMart to get a pencil.  I could 
have walked, but that's not The American Way.  I personally am furious 
about  gas prices in the US. I'm not sure who I'm furious with, but I 
think it might be the Democrats.  I'm pretty sure I'm also furious with 
the Saudis.  I was furious with Saddam, what with his WMD and the whole 
9/11 thing, but I think we all agree that's been taken care off.  I am 
very angry that Asians hold most of our government debt, but I am also 
extremely upset that S. Korea mused aloud about diversifying out of dollars.


Taxes.  I'm very mad about taxes.  I just sold my palatial mansion in 
Palm Beach and have to pay 15% capital gains!!  Thank goodness my 
gardener, Roberto, pays 28% on his wages or it could have been worse.


Mike, The Ugly American

Rademan, Jacobus wrote:


Hi all, i own  a landrover disco tdi and   get 980km on a tank 85l but on the 
motorbike which use petrol 19km/l my question,where
are the tdi motorbikes,diesel cars are lighter than petrol cars,so diesel bikes 
will also be,is 40km/l reachable?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:30 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes



Hello;
22mpg diesel cost less than same amount of gasoline so you save some.

BUT, May I ask why do you need a Hummer sized expedition machine?
Except USA such large cars or SUV's are out of our shopping list anyway.
The cost and running expenses do not justify them.

I like going offroad.  Currently I do that with a motorbike.  If I choose to
buy an offroad 4x4,
I wouldn't consider anything bigger than 2.5 litre diesel which will give me
at least 25 to 30mpg.

May be we should consider to change our purchasing habbits in favour of
preserving whatever
is left in the world in terms of resources. I hope the below quote from your
e-mail will come
true some day;
"The US needs (and will) get over its fascination w/ giant cars."

As I have written in my previous e-mail, our kids will be the ones to suffer
/ enjoy results of our choices.

Regards

Burak




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Weaver
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 2:24 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes


Not in a Hummer-sized or Expedition-sized vehicle you won't!  I counted
over 30 that don't even get 20 mpg on EPA's website.
I have a VW Golf and get at least 43-46.

The US doesn't sell small diesels, except the Jeep, but it's so heavy it
still get no mileage.  Isuzu was was the last carmaker to build a decent
midsize SUV w/ a diesel - it got 30-35 or so but that was years ago.

The US needs (and will) get over its fascination w/ giant cars.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 


Hello;

You will get far more than 22mpg with diesel.
Unless of course you are looking for very large capacity engine (like 6
litres) which and average city user does not need.

Over here (outside of USA) you  can buy 2.5 to 3.5 litre diesel engined
SUV's and Vans.
You will get at least 25mpg.  And these are 4x4 heavy duty machines.

Or you can get small capacity diesel cars (example 1.6 litre Hyundai Getz)
and you get something
like 40 miles to a gallon easily. These are real life values including city
traffic (not test values).

I have looked at the article, it mentiones that in US the refineries do not
have the capacity for the diesel production.
Well hey  maybe this is a great opportunity for bio-diesel  Start using
the vegetable oil or even better
waste vegetable oil.  You will save the environment, create jobs for local
farmers and pollute far less.
I would estimate that for  a bio-diesel plant it will take maximum 6 months
   


from scratch to be operational.
 


And you can use the local farmers produce or local restaurants WVO (and
   


save
 


the pollution).
Even better if you have the talent like many in this list you can make it
   


at
 


home, and save a bundle...

Article also mentions that diesel prices are soaring.  Yes this is true. I
can tell you that this is a great
tax revenue for all of the government.  I can tell you that over here there
are less taxes on biodiesel.
The government actually supports the BD production.  Therefore the BD sells
for less than normal diesel.
To save more please refer to the last sentence of the previous paragraph.

There is one more issue about commercial transportation.  We need to build
more railroads.  Trucking everything
wil not be feasible.  Again in Turkiye I believe we have the largest truck
population in Europe.  But at the end of the
day no matter how many roads you build they are always con

Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel

[Mike Weaver]

Not long.  It's like coffee beans - need to keep turning over yout 
stock.  I have heard - anecdotally - a year under perfect conditions.  
Less if conditions are bad.

How are you storing it?

Ian & Theresa Sims wrote:


Does anyone tell me how long Biodiesel will keep after production.
Can someone clarify the final filter process after production. Some 
say 5 microns some say 10. Mike pelly's recipe dosn't seem to say 
anything about it? And how long should it stand or can you pour it 
straight in?

Cheers Ian



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Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

[Mike Weaver]

That's what a lot of people don't understand.  If you haven't worked in 
the Gov't it doesn't make much sense.  I was just telling someone that 
the latest IRS IT fiasco is actually not a failure in the eyes of the 
Gov't workers - only one person got fired, the FTE's got paid and the 
contractors got paid.  Whether or not it worked was pretty incidental to 
the process.  The rules are:


1.  Don't get fired - still pretty hard to fire someone in the US.
2.  Don't make more work for anyone.
3. Don't make your boss look bad.
4.  Don't get bad press.
5.  Inertia is better than doing something.  Inertia won't get you 
fired, but doing something might.

6.  That's the way we've always done it.

Appal Energy wrote:


Tom,

Government is business. But not necessarily or precisely going about 
the same business of any specific special interest businesses. More to 
the tune of going about the business of all business.


How many times have you found yourself in the middle of a Freudian 
slip, such as "In this company (country)...?"


Think about it. The structure is precisely the same, with labor, 
middle and upper level "management" and the occassional "stock 
holder's" meeting (elections). In the interim, seldom does management 
change anything to the liking or needs of labor unless mandatory to 
prevent a serious disruption of production flow. Even then, as in the 
case of oil, they hold out to the last possible moment rather than 
seizing available opportunities.


Call it poor leadership. Call it an attempt to maximize current 
infrastructure and investment dollar. Call it whatever you wish. But 
government is business, with one of its goals to insure its own 
existance to the best of its capabilities.


Todd Swearingen

"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government."




Tom Irwin wrote:


Hi Todd,
 
You are such a hairsplitter. Big government or big corporate 
agribusinesses they ane now synonyms at least in the G8 world. I know 
your just endeavoring to be accurate.
 
Big Smile,
 
Tom Irwin





*From:* Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:57:35 -0300
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

Not necessarily.

More like the big hand(s) of soybean interest(s) manipulating a
set of
controls to as best as possible "guarantee" that they get their
research, testing and investment monies back. Forget that the monies
they used are from a per bushel tax on beans, designated for use to
advance the production and consumption of soy, which biodiesel does.

What they want is the tax money to operate off of and then after 
they

spend it they want it replenished.

The government just went along in the processing of incorporating
biodiesel as an EPA registered fuel.

Then again, on the other hand, the soybean interests could have
kept the
Tier I & II health effects studies for their use only as well as
applicable only to soybean oil. But that's not how it ended up, as
fuel
from all oil and fat feedstocks fall under the rubric of 
"biodiesel."


One could say that the EPA lobbied to keep the gate open a little
wider
than strictly soy, which in turn served the public's interest rather
than specifically the special interest.

Nobody is talking.

Todd Swearingen


Tom Irwin wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Do I detect the big hand of government squeezing the small 
business

> owner for corporate America here?
>
> Tom
>
>
>



> *From:* Ric Cuchetto [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
]
> *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

> *Sent:* Tue, 09 Aug 2005 12:50:42 -0300
> *Subject:* RE: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...
>
> ASTM testing is at the end of the process. We are also
struggling with
> taxes and licensing and posting bond related to transporting the
waste
> veggie oil. There is quite a bit of resistance to these
technologies.
> Truckers, renderers and petro companies do a much better job of
> lobbying
> than the grass roots folks. Even forward-thinking folks trying to
> build
> methanizers or biodiesel plants find that the insurance,
licensing and
> certification make it difficult to justify the costs. Let's not
> even start
> with the transportation (fuel) taxes.
>
> Commercialization is a big hurdle compared to dumpster diving and
> making
> fuel for your buddies.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ric Cuchetto
> Northern california
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

>
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> ]
> On Behalf Of TarynToo
> Sent: August 09, 2005 08:04
> To: Bio

Re: [Biofuel] titanium

[bob allen]

the only difference between this procedure and the usual method is the 
way you heat the mixture; that is, using microwaves substitutes for 
heating by other methods.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I have seen ultrasonic (microwave) at

http://tinyurl.com/8cad7   --in the reactor

and

http://tinyurl.com/bo3by  -- in an exit tube from the reactor

both produce glycerine byproduct.

There are a couple of these producers out there who raised there hands
a while back but I cannot find the post again.

Ray

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 08:53:37 -0400, Joe Street  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Very interesting.  I have also been wondering about ways to add 
energy  to make the reaction go.  One thing I was considering was 
ultraviolet  light.  Anybody on the list have any knowledge or ideas 
about this?


Joe

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi There:

The following US patent offers making biodiesel by adding 15% MeOH
and running the mix at 85degC past very high DC electrode to get
100% conversion - no glycerine, it is converted to 1,2,3-proprionate.
The only other byproduct is hydrogen.  Very cool, just a little
scary.

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=biodeisel&OS=biodeisel&RS=biodeisel  
http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7


Ray

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:10:14 -0400, francisco j burgos   
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Dear Mr. Farmer:
seems a good idea. Keep searching, wish you good luck.
F.J. Burgos

- Original Message - From: "Jeremy Farmer"   
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 12:45 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] titanium


Just wondering if anyone had any input.  I have been thinking 
about   Biodiesel, and I came across a mosquito trap at the 
hardware store  that  uses propaine run across titanium to crack 
the hydrocarbons  down to CO2  and attracting mosquitos.  I was 
wondering if the same  theory could be  used to make biodiesel?  
Does anyone have any ideas?


Thanks,

Jeremy Farmer
JBF Holdings LLC
2601 Lazy Hollow #603
Houston, Texas 77063
832-414-4217
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

"Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes

[Mike Weaver]

I have the same car with some mods - it's stick and gets 46 or so on the 
hwy with dino and 42-43 w/ BD.  It runs better on BD but the mileage 
does drop off.



Jason Schick wrote:


I have a 2002 VW Jetta TDI which I have been running on Soy Biodiesel for
6000 miles.  It is an automatic so my mileage hasn't been as good as the
manual.  I used to get 38 mpg with dino but I only get 32 with the bio.
Does anyone have a comparison. 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Weaver
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 7:06 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes

I have a hot-rodded TDI running on BD and it screams!  I am looking at a 
better clutch because it puts out so much torque.  I got rid of my V8 
Mustang
and am glad I did.  This thing is a blast, and still gets great mileage 
w/ almost no nasty tailpipe emissions.



Joe McCarthy wrote:

 

I'm driving a non turbo 1.9l diesel golf and I'm getting 47-50mpg. At  
only 65bhp it's not much fun to drive. However with Diesel costing  
(equivalent) $4.76 per US gallon in the republic of Ireland, it's  
more of a necessity.



On 9 Aug 2005, at 12:23, Mike Weaver wrote:

   

Not in a Hummer-sized or Expedition-sized vehicle you won't!  I  
counted over 30 that don't even get 20 mpg on EPA's website.

I have a VW Golf and get at least 43-46.
The US doesn't sell small diesels, except the Jeep, but it's so  
heavy it still get no mileage.  Isuzu was was the last carmaker to  
build a decent midsize SUV w/ a diesel - it got 30-35 or so but  that 
was years ago.


The US needs (and will) get over its fascination w/ giant cars.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


 


Hello;

You will get far more than 22mpg with diesel.
Unless of course you are looking for very large capacity engine  
(like 6

litres) which and average city user does not need.

Over here (outside of USA) you  can buy 2.5 to 3.5 litre diesel  
engined

SUV's and Vans.
You will get at least 25mpg.  And these are 4x4 heavy duty machines.

Or you can get small capacity diesel cars (example 1.6 litre  
Hyundai Getz)

and you get something
like 40 miles to a gallon easily. These are real life values  
including city

traffic (not test values).

I have looked at the article, it mentiones that in US the  
refineries do not

have the capacity for the diesel production.
Well hey  maybe this is a great opportunity for bio-diesel   
Start using

the vegetable oil or even better
waste vegetable oil.  You will save the environment, create jobs  
for local

farmers and pollute far less.
I would estimate that for  a bio-diesel plant it will take maximum  
6 months

from scratch to be operational.
And you can use the local farmers produce or local restaurants WVO  
(and save

the pollution).
Even better if you have the talent like many in this list you can  
make it at

home, and save a bundle...

Article also mentions that diesel prices are soaring.  Yes this is  
true. I

can tell you that this is a great
tax revenue for all of the government.  I can tell you that over  
here there

are less taxes on biodiesel.
The government actually supports the BD production.  Therefore the  
BD sells

for less than normal diesel.
To save more please refer to the last sentence of the previous  
paragraph.


There is one more issue about commercial transportation.  We need  
to build

more railroads.  Trucking everything
wil not be feasible.  Again in Turkiye I believe we have the  
largest truck

population in Europe.  But at the end of the
day no matter how many roads you build they are always congested  
and the

accident rates are difficult to control.
For commercial transportation you need to build railroads and  
develop the

seaways.

So there is a solution for all of the claims this article makes.   
It all

comes down to the personal choice of each individual.
Do we want to solve problems?  Or do we prefer to enjoy the luxury of
"wasting energy"?  I gues our kids will be the one
to appreciate our efforts or put the blame on us.

regards

Burak
Istanbul, Turkiye

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Weaver
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 11:21 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes


I read that.  Diesel will only help if combined w/ high mileage cars,
hybrid and bio.  To go to diesel so Americans can get 22 mpg in their
SUVs is pretty silly.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



   


Click here: Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes



 




   


FYI.  No mention of biodiesel to augment supplies.

 



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Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

[Tom Irwin]

Greetings Todd,
 
I agree with you almost entirely. Occassionally the elctorate gets a group of anti business folks into power that enact things like anti-trust laws to curb the worst excesses of business. This hasn't happened for a number of years but I remain the starry eyed idealist that it might happen again within my lifetime. Today it's more like rich folks disagreeing on the path the peasants should trod. Take the case of Ross Perot running for President. It seems to me he ran just cause he didn't like Bush I for some reason. I don't know what that reason was but it would be interesting to find out. Of course I don't entirely rule out the possibility, however remote, that he actually thought large federal deficits were bad for the wealthy. 
 
Tom Irwin
 


From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 07:56:03 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...Tom,Government is business. But not necessarily or precisely going about the same business of any specific special interest businesses. More to the tune of going about the business of all business.How many times have you found yourself in the middle of a Freudian slip, such as "In this company (country)...?"Think about it. The structure is precisely the same, with labor, middle and upper level "management" and the occassional "stock holder's" meeting (elections). In the interim, seldom does management change anything to the liking or needs of labor unless mandatory to prevent a serious disruption of production flow. Even then, as in the case of oil, they hold out to the last possible moment rather than seizing available opportunities.Call it poor leadership. Call it an attempt to maximize current infrastructure and investment dollar. Call it whatever you wish. But government is business, with one of its goals to insure its own existance to the best of its capabilities.Todd Swearingen"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government."Tom Irwin wrote:> Hi Todd,> > You are such a hairsplitter. Big government or big corporate > agribusinesses they ane now synonyms at least in the G8 world. I know > your just endeavoring to be accurate.> > Big Smile,> > Tom Irwin>> > *From:* Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]> *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> *Sent:* Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:57:35 -0300> *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...>> Not necessarily.>> More like the big hand(s) of soybean interest(s) manipulating a> set of> controls to as best as possible "guarantee" that they get their> research, testing and investment monies back. Forget that the monies> they used are from a per bushel tax on beans, designated for use to> advance the production and consumption of soy, which biodiesel does.>> What they want is the tax money to operate off of and then after they> spend it they want it replenished.>> The government just went along in the processing of incorporating> biodiesel as an EPA registered fuel.>> Then again, on the other hand, the soybean interests could have> kept the> Tier I & II health effects studies for their use only as well as> applicable only to soybean oil. But that's not how it ended up, as> fuel> from all oil and fat feedstocks fall under the rubric of "biodiesel.">> One could say that the EPA lobbied to keep the gate open a little> wider> than strictly soy, which in turn served the public's interest rather> than specifically the special interest.>> Nobody is talking.>> Todd Swearingen>>> Tom Irwin wrote:>> > Hi All,> >> > Do I detect the big hand of government squeezing the small business> > owner for corporate America here?> >> > Tom> >> >> >> > > *From:* Ric Cuchetto [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <_javascript_:kh6k0("new","[EMAIL PROTECTED]")>]> > *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> <_javascript_:kh6k0("new","Biofuel@sustainablelists.org")>> > *Sent:* Tue, 09 Aug 2005 12:50:42 -0300> > *Subject:* RE: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...> >> > ASTM testing is at the end of the process. We are also> struggling with> > taxes and licensing and posting bond related to transporting the> waste> > veggie oil. There is quite a bit of resistance to these> technologies.> > Truckers, renderers and petro companies do a much better job of> > lobbying> > than the grass roots folks. Even forward-thinking folks trying to> > build> > methanizers or biodiesel plants find that the insurance,> licensing and> > certification make it difficult to justify the costs. Let's not> > even start> > with the transportation (fuel) taxes.> >> > Commercialization is a big hurdle compared to dumpster diving and> > making> > fuel for your buddies.> >> > Regards,> >> > Ric Cuchetto> > Northern california> >> > -Original Message-> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> <_javascript_:kh6k0("new","[EMAIL PROTECTED]")>> >> > [m

Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

[Mike Weaver]

About $4,000 for the testing - so it only makes sense if you have a very 
large quantity of fuel.


The equipment to test it runs around $75,000, plus someone who knows how 
to do it.  Don't forget that you will owe federal and probably state tax 
on anything that passes your fuel filler - even if it is homebrew.  I 
keep a little log for this.  A coop is the way to go.


-Mike

TarynToo wrote:


Hi Mike,
Can you (or others) expand on this please? How much of a fortune? I've 
been searching for info on the tax and regulatory issues of producing 
and selling BD on a small scale. I wouldn't mind joining or starting a 
co-op, but cooperatively-minded folk are thin on the ground in South 
Florida.


Thanks, Taryn

On Aug 9, 2005, at 7:25 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:



Also, you can't set up a Biodiesel plant in the US.  It's illegal to 
sell fuel unless you have it tested by ASTM, which costs a fortune.

You can brew your own or as part of a coop.

-Mike




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Re: [Biofuel] Seed terrorism

[Mike Weaver]

Dance w/ the Devil... :-)

rich wrote:


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I'm in.  Where do I send my check?

Tom Irwin wrote:


Hi all,
 
IMHO you get together with other Heirloom farmers and sue the seed 
companies first for contaminating your stock of unmodifed seeds. 
Make it a big class action suit. Find a hardass lawyer who will 
persue it with righteous vengence and bring these corporations to 
their knees. Remember it's their genes contaminating your stock not 
the other way around.
 
Tom Irwin
 


 


*From:* Guag Meister [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Tue, 09 Aug 2005 05:46:26 -0300
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Seed terrorism

Hi Keith and Doug and All ;

Respectfully, you are absolutely correct that you can
still by seeds that are "heirloom". This is the
present time. What is frightening is the direction
that the planet is headed.

How long before these "heirloom" seed suppliers are
bought by the agro giants? How long before some gene
sneaks into the "heirloom" verieties and patent
infringment money is due? What to do when two
different genes from two (or more!) different
companies are in your crop? You'll be sue'ed from
every direction.

Respectfully we all need to wake up. It will not be
long (like 100 years) that ALL life forms (including
animals) will be patented. Anyone think that this
will guarantee "quality"?

Governments need to invalidate ANY and ALL patents on
life forms. And while they are at it they should make
it illegal to sell seeds which bear sterile seeds.

Best Regards,

Peter G.


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Mike, you can start by buying Monsanto stock.  With enough 
stockholders  submitting proxy proposals (and enough stockholders 
accepting them), that may obligate the board to put them in practice.


Richard

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Re: [Biofuel] titanium

[ings . group]

I have seen ultrasonic (microwave) at

http://tinyurl.com/8cad7   --in the reactor

and

http://tinyurl.com/bo3by  -- in an exit tube from the reactor

both produce glycerine byproduct.

There are a couple of these producers out there who raised there hands
a while back but I cannot find the post again.

Ray

On Wed, 10 Aug 2005 08:53:37 -0400, Joe Street  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Very interesting.  I have also been wondering about ways to add energy  
to make the reaction go.  One thing I was considering was ultraviolet  
light.  Anybody on the list have any knowledge or ideas about this?


Joe

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi There:

The following US patent offers making biodiesel by adding 15% MeOH
and running the mix at 85degC past very high DC electrode to get
100% conversion - no glycerine, it is converted to 1,2,3-proprionate.
The only other byproduct is hydrogen.  Very cool, just a little
scary.

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=biodeisel&OS=biodeisel&RS=biodeisel  
http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7


Ray

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:10:14 -0400, francisco j burgos   
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Dear Mr. Farmer:
seems a good idea. Keep searching, wish you good luck.
F.J. Burgos

- Original Message - From: "Jeremy Farmer"   
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 12:45 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] titanium


Just wondering if anyone had any input.  I have been thinking about   
Biodiesel, and I came across a mosquito trap at the hardware store  
that  uses propaine run across titanium to crack the hydrocarbons  
down to CO2  and attracting mosquitos.  I was wondering if the same  
theory could be  used to make biodiesel?  Does anyone have any ideas?


Thanks,

Jeremy Farmer
JBF Holdings LLC
2601 Lazy Hollow #603
Houston, Texas 77063
832-414-4217
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--
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Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Ian,
if treated with anti-oxidizing agents, and 
produced from oil with a moderate peroxide number, the biodiesel should be 
consumed within three months.
10 microns is a normal filter size for 
diesel engines, unless equipped with a common-rail system. So, filtering at 10 
microns is good, 5 microns even better assuming that the biodiesel has an 
abnormal content of solids which will lead to filter clogging very rapidly. Pay 
attention to the markings "absolute" and "nominal" on the filter spec. There is 
a huge difference between those two. 
The biodiesel should be ready for instant 
consumption if it´s clear and bright and without sediments.
With best regards
Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
+ 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Ian & 
  Theresa Sims 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:59 
  AM
  Subject: [Biofuel] Biodiesel
  
  Does anyone tell me how long Biodiesel will keep 
  after production.
  Can someone clarify the final filter process 
  after production. Some say 5 microns some say 10. Mike pelly's recipe dosn't 
  seem to say anything about it? And how long should it stand or can you pour it 
  straight in?
  Cheers Ian
  
  

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Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

[Joe Street]

  
  
   
  
>Hi Keith,
>
>You misinterpret my suspician. My suspician is that the site is 
>blocked from me. I work at an embassy school and will try again at 
>home.

Sounds most improbable. 
   
  Actually quite probable considering I was there as the school
was built and the computing and telephone systems were put in. The
embassy folks came in right after the normal lines were installed to
place some additional equipment to the same lines. Neither I nor our
computer systems person has any idea what that equipment does. Yet low
and behold upon returning home I can access the site you mentioned. Big
Brother is always watching.
   
  Tom Irwin
   


Yes there has been quite a bit of dialog recently about this very thing
going on in China where some form of censorship is being built into the
service providers for the entire country. We were having a discussion
about this very thing last night at the bar on campus where I get my
WVO!

Joe


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Re: [Biofuel] titanium

[Joe Street]

Very interesting.  I have also been wondering about ways to add energy 
to make the reaction go.  One thing I was considering was ultraviolet 
light.  Anybody on the list have any knowledge or ideas about this?


Joe

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Hi There:

The following US patent offers making biodiesel by adding 15% MeOH
and running the mix at 85degC past very high DC electrode to get
100% conversion - no glycerine, it is converted to 1,2,3-proprionate.
The only other byproduct is hydrogen.  Very cool, just a little
scary.

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=biodeisel&OS=biodeisel&RS=biodeisel 



http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7

Ray

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:10:14 -0400, francisco j burgos  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



Dear Mr. Farmer:
seems a good idea. Keep searching, wish you good luck.
F.J. Burgos

- Original Message - From: "Jeremy Farmer"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 12:45 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] titanium


Just wondering if anyone had any input.  I have been thinking about  
Biodiesel, and I came across a mosquito trap at the hardware store 
that  uses propaine run across titanium to crack the hydrocarbons 
down to CO2  and attracting mosquitos.  I was wondering if the same 
theory could be  used to make biodiesel?  Does anyone have any ideas?


Thanks,

Jeremy Farmer
JBF Holdings LLC
2601 Lazy Hollow #603
Houston, Texas 77063
832-414-4217
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly

[Appal Energy]

so my question is, can I also make BD from the
FFA's with the single base reaction ?



No.

But you can run the recovered FFAs in an single tank, IDI system. The viscosity 
is low enough. You just won't be able to run any saturated FFAs (palm, coconut, 
hydrogenated and animal fat), as they solidify at higher temps, the same as do 
their parent stocks.

If the recovered FFAs are liquid at 50*-70*F you can run them straight or 
blended with petroleum or biodiesel.

Todd Swearingen



Pieter Koole wrote:


Hi Todd,
Thanks for your answer.
I have never had any good results with acid/base reactions, so my question
is, can I also make BD from the FFA's with the single base reaction ?
Thanks again in advance.

Met  dank en vriendelijke groet,
Pieter Koole

- Original Message -
From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly


 


Pieter,

The "broken soap" is nothing more than free fatty acids, with a
glycerol/alcohol/water/residual-acid layer beneath it and (if using
potassium hydroxide as the original catalyst) solid fertilizer beneath
   


that.
 


FFAs in their pure form are only slightly more viscous (hadly
noticeable) than biodiesel and can be run in an indirect injection
diesel as is or heated and run through a veg-oil converted system.

Or, you can convert them to biodiesel with acid/base processing.

Todd Swearingen

Pieter Koole wrote:

   


And what can you do with the "broken soap" ?
Met  dank en vriendelijke groet,
Pieter Koole

- Original Message -
From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly




 


Derick,

Still, treat a small sample with concentrated sufuric or phosphoric acid
and observe.

Todd Swearingen


DERICK GIORCHINO wrote:



   


Thanks for the response. I feel that I may not have explained that
 


there
 


isn't a layer it's almost a solid mass. It is about 95 deg f outside
 


and
 

 


if


 


I turn the soda bottle on its side it slides inside the bottle as one


 


lump


 


retaining the shape of the bottom of the bottle. If I shake it hard it


 


does


 


brake up somewhat. Kind of like when the old super ball was broken.
I feel that I now have super glop.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Appal Energy
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 5:51 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly





 


But is the jelly a typical sign of over dosing?
I have a problem with disposing of the mess I
have made if there is a way to salvage it.




   


Take a small sample and see how much concentrated sulfuric or
 


phosphoric
 


acid it takes to crack the soap portion of the top jelly layer.

This is the same thing that is done with the glyc cocktail to recover
 


the
 


free fatty acids.

Todd Swearingen




DERICK GIORCHINO wrote:





 


Hi Keith More
Thanks for you response.
I tried the world famous chop stick titration technique. Wow what a
difference in my titration  #.
I did a 1 ltr test in a soda bottle, with excellent result almost




   


instantly.




 


But here is where I got into trouble.
The next batch was 20 liters I had some methoxide mixed from a prior


   


batch


 


that was also a failure and I couldn't figure what to do with the
   


toxic
 

   


mix


 


so I tried to dilute it to 10 g.p. liter. I did my mixing of the 20


   


liters.


 


As it cooled it turned into what looks like lard. I felt that I may
   


have
 


overdosed it. So I then took some test bottles and put 20% failure oil


   


and


 


75% fresh wvo set it in the sun to melt/ liquefy. (105 deg F) shook it


   


hard


 


also a 50/50 mix in the hot state it seamed to separate better 25/75


   


than


 


the 50/50 but as the sun went down and it cooled the 25/75 started to


   


jell


 


and the glycerol layer vanished but the 50/50 looked much better with
   


a
 


glycerol layer jelled at the bottom. I m not asking for a fix. But is


   


the


 


jelly a typical sign of over dosing? I have a problem with disposing
   


of
 

   


the


 


mess I have made if there is a way to salvage it.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith
   


Addison
 


Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:58 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] RE: Phenolphthalein solution

Hi Derick







   


May be there is some help for me out there. I have made lots and lots


 


of


 


test batches. Most of them bad not good. One border line. And one 15


 


gal


   

Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly

[Pieter Koole]

Hi Todd,
Thanks for your answer.
I have never had any good results with acid/base reactions, so my question
is, can I also make BD from the FFA's with the single base reaction ?
Thanks again in advance.

Met  dank en vriendelijke groet,
Pieter Koole

- Original Message -
From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly


> Pieter,
>
> The "broken soap" is nothing more than free fatty acids, with a
> glycerol/alcohol/water/residual-acid layer beneath it and (if using
> potassium hydroxide as the original catalyst) solid fertilizer beneath
that.
>
> FFAs in their pure form are only slightly more viscous (hadly
> noticeable) than biodiesel and can be run in an indirect injection
> diesel as is or heated and run through a veg-oil converted system.
>
> Or, you can convert them to biodiesel with acid/base processing.
>
> Todd Swearingen
>
> Pieter Koole wrote:
>
> >And what can you do with the "broken soap" ?
> >Met  dank en vriendelijke groet,
> >Pieter Koole
> >
> >- Original Message -
> >From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: 
> >Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 11:45 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Derick,
> >>
> >>Still, treat a small sample with concentrated sufuric or phosphoric acid
> >>and observe.
> >>
> >>Todd Swearingen
> >>
> >>
> >>DERICK GIORCHINO wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Thanks for the response. I feel that I may not have explained that
there
> >>>isn't a layer it's almost a solid mass. It is about 95 deg f outside
and
> >>>
> >>>
> >if
> >
> >
> >>>I turn the soda bottle on its side it slides inside the bottle as one
> >>>
> >>>
> >lump
> >
> >
> >>>retaining the shape of the bottom of the bottle. If I shake it hard it
> >>>
> >>>
> >does
> >
> >
> >>>brake up somewhat. Kind of like when the old super ball was broken.
> >>>I feel that I now have super glop.
> >>>
> >>>-Original Message-
> >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Appal Energy
> >>>Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 5:51 PM
> >>>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] RE: jelly
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> But is the jelly a typical sign of over dosing?
> I have a problem with disposing of the mess I
> have made if there is a way to salvage it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>>Take a small sample and see how much concentrated sulfuric or
phosphoric
> >>>acid it takes to crack the soap portion of the top jelly layer.
> >>>
> >>>This is the same thing that is done with the glyc cocktail to recover
the
> >>>free fatty acids.
> >>>
> >>>Todd Swearingen
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>DERICK GIORCHINO wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> Hi Keith More
> Thanks for you response.
> I tried the world famous chop stick titration technique. Wow what a
> difference in my titration  #.
> I did a 1 ltr test in a soda bottle, with excellent result almost
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>>instantly.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> But here is where I got into trouble.
> The next batch was 20 liters I had some methoxide mixed from a prior
> 
> 
> >batch
> >
> >
> that was also a failure and I couldn't figure what to do with the
toxic
> 
> 
> >mix
> >
> >
> so I tried to dilute it to 10 g.p. liter. I did my mixing of the 20
> 
> 
> >liters.
> >
> >
> As it cooled it turned into what looks like lard. I felt that I may
have
> overdosed it. So I then took some test bottles and put 20% failure oil
> 
> 
> >and
> >
> >
> 75% fresh wvo set it in the sun to melt/ liquefy. (105 deg F) shook it
> 
> 
> >hard
> >
> >
> also a 50/50 mix in the hot state it seamed to separate better 25/75
> 
> 
> >than
> >
> >
> the 50/50 but as the sun went down and it cooled the 25/75 started to
> 
> 
> >jell
> >
> >
> and the glycerol layer vanished but the 50/50 looked much better with
a
> glycerol layer jelled at the bottom. I m not asking for a fix. But is
> 
> 
> >the
> >
> >
> jelly a typical sign of over dosing? I have a problem with disposing
of
> 
> 
> >the
> >
> >
> mess I have made if there is a way to salvage it.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith
Addison
> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:58 PM
> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Subject: RE: [Biofuel] RE: Phenolphthalein solution
> 
> Hi Derick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >May be there is some help for me out there. I have made lots and lots
> >
> >
> >of
> >
> >
> >test batches. Most of them bad not good. One border line. And one 15
> >
> >
> >gal
> >
> >
> >batch with fairly good results. I have used all the options given for
> >titration in the J.T. Forever. Test strips work
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>

[Biofuel] Biodiesel

[Ian & Theresa Sims]

Does anyone tell me how long Biodiesel will keep 
after production.
Can someone clarify the final filter process after 
production. Some say 5 microns some say 10. Mike pelly's recipe dosn't seem to 
say anything about it? And how long should it stand or can you pour it straight 
in?
Cheers Ian
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RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes

[Rademan, Jacobus]

Hi all, i own  a landrover disco tdi and   get 980km on a tank 85l but on the 
motorbike which use petrol 19km/l my question,where
are the tdi motorbikes,diesel cars are lighter than petrol cars,so diesel bikes 
will also be,is 40km/l reachable?

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:30 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes



Hello;
22mpg diesel cost less than same amount of gasoline so you save some.

BUT, May I ask why do you need a Hummer sized expedition machine?
Except USA such large cars or SUV's are out of our shopping list anyway.
The cost and running expenses do not justify them.

I like going offroad.  Currently I do that with a motorbike.  If I choose to
buy an offroad 4x4,
I wouldn't consider anything bigger than 2.5 litre diesel which will give me
at least 25 to 30mpg.

May be we should consider to change our purchasing habbits in favour of
preserving whatever
is left in the world in terms of resources. I hope the below quote from your
e-mail will come
true some day;
"The US needs (and will) get over its fascination w/ giant cars."

As I have written in my previous e-mail, our kids will be the ones to suffer
/ enjoy results of our choices.

Regards

Burak




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Weaver
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 2:24 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes


Not in a Hummer-sized or Expedition-sized vehicle you won't!  I counted
over 30 that don't even get 20 mpg on EPA's website.
I have a VW Golf and get at least 43-46.

The US doesn't sell small diesels, except the Jeep, but it's so heavy it
still get no mileage.  Isuzu was was the last carmaker to build a decent
midsize SUV w/ a diesel - it got 30-35 or so but that was years ago.

The US needs (and will) get over its fascination w/ giant cars.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>Hello;
>
>You will get far more than 22mpg with diesel.
>Unless of course you are looking for very large capacity engine (like 6
>litres) which and average city user does not need.
>
>Over here (outside of USA) you  can buy 2.5 to 3.5 litre diesel engined
>SUV's and Vans.
>You will get at least 25mpg.  And these are 4x4 heavy duty machines.
>
>Or you can get small capacity diesel cars (example 1.6 litre Hyundai Getz)
>and you get something
>like 40 miles to a gallon easily. These are real life values including city
>traffic (not test values).
>
>I have looked at the article, it mentiones that in US the refineries do not
>have the capacity for the diesel production.
>Well hey  maybe this is a great opportunity for bio-diesel  Start using
>the vegetable oil or even better
>waste vegetable oil.  You will save the environment, create jobs for local
>farmers and pollute far less.
>I would estimate that for  a bio-diesel plant it will take maximum 6 months
>from scratch to be operational.
>And you can use the local farmers produce or local restaurants WVO (and
save
>the pollution).
>Even better if you have the talent like many in this list you can make it
at
>home, and save a bundle...
>
>Article also mentions that diesel prices are soaring.  Yes this is true. I
>can tell you that this is a great
>tax revenue for all of the government.  I can tell you that over here there
>are less taxes on biodiesel.
>The government actually supports the BD production.  Therefore the BD sells
>for less than normal diesel.
>To save more please refer to the last sentence of the previous paragraph.
>
>There is one more issue about commercial transportation.  We need to build
>more railroads.  Trucking everything
>wil not be feasible.  Again in Turkiye I believe we have the largest truck
>population in Europe.  But at the end of the
>day no matter how many roads you build they are always congested and the
>accident rates are difficult to control.
>For commercial transportation you need to build railroads and develop the
>seaways.
>
>So there is a solution for all of the claims this article makes.  It all
>comes down to the personal choice of each individual.
>Do we want to solve problems?  Or do we prefer to enjoy the luxury of
>"wasting energy"?  I gues our kids will be the one
>to appreciate our efforts or put the blame on us.
>
>regards
>
>Burak
>Istanbul, Turkiye
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Weaver
>Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 11:21 PM
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes
>
>
>I read that.  Diesel will only help if combined w/ high mileage cars,
>hybrid and bio.  To go to diesel so Americans can get 22 mpg in their
>SUVs is pretty silly.
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>
>
>>Click here: Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

[Appal Energy]

Tom,

Government is business. But not necessarily or precisely going about the 
same business of any specific special interest businesses. More to the 
tune of going about the business of all business.


How many times have you found yourself in the middle of a Freudian slip, 
such as "In this company (country)...?"


Think about it. The structure is precisely the same, with labor, middle 
and upper level "management" and the occassional "stock holder's" 
meeting (elections). In the interim, seldom does management change 
anything to the liking or needs of labor unless mandatory to prevent a 
serious disruption of production flow. Even then, as in the case of oil, 
they hold out to the last possible moment rather than seizing available 
opportunities.


Call it poor leadership. Call it an attempt to maximize current 
infrastructure and investment dollar. Call it whatever you wish. But 
government is business, with one of its goals to insure its own 
existance to the best of its capabilities.


Todd Swearingen

"The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government."




Tom Irwin wrote:


Hi Todd,
 
You are such a hairsplitter. Big government or big corporate 
agribusinesses they ane now synonyms at least in the G8 world. I know 
your just endeavoring to be accurate.
 
Big Smile,
 
Tom Irwin



*From:* Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:57:35 -0300
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

Not necessarily.

More like the big hand(s) of soybean interest(s) manipulating a
set of
controls to as best as possible "guarantee" that they get their
research, testing and investment monies back. Forget that the monies
they used are from a per bushel tax on beans, designated for use to
advance the production and consumption of soy, which biodiesel does.

What they want is the tax money to operate off of and then after they
spend it they want it replenished.

The government just went along in the processing of incorporating
biodiesel as an EPA registered fuel.

Then again, on the other hand, the soybean interests could have
kept the
Tier I & II health effects studies for their use only as well as
applicable only to soybean oil. But that's not how it ended up, as
fuel
from all oil and fat feedstocks fall under the rubric of "biodiesel."

One could say that the EPA lobbied to keep the gate open a little
wider
than strictly soy, which in turn served the public's interest rather
than specifically the special interest.

Nobody is talking.

Todd Swearingen


Tom Irwin wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Do I detect the big hand of government squeezing the small business
> owner for corporate America here?
>
> Tom
>
>
>

> *From:* Ric Cuchetto [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
]
> *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

> *Sent:* Tue, 09 Aug 2005 12:50:42 -0300
> *Subject:* RE: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...
>
> ASTM testing is at the end of the process. We are also
struggling with
> taxes and licensing and posting bond related to transporting the
waste
> veggie oil. There is quite a bit of resistance to these
technologies.
> Truckers, renderers and petro companies do a much better job of
> lobbying
> than the grass roots folks. Even forward-thinking folks trying to
> build
> methanizers or biodiesel plants find that the insurance,
licensing and
> certification make it difficult to justify the costs. Let's not
> even start
> with the transportation (fuel) taxes.
>
> Commercialization is a big hurdle compared to dumpster diving and
> making
> fuel for your buddies.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ric Cuchetto
> Northern california
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

>
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> ]
> On Behalf Of TarynToo
> Sent: August 09, 2005 08:04
> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

>
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...
>
> Hi Mike,
> Can you (or others) expand on this please? How much of a fortune?
> I've
> been searching for info on the tax and regulatory issues of
producing
> and selling BD on a small scale. I wouldn't mind joining or
> starting a
> co-op, but cooperatively-minded folk are thin on the ground in South
> Florida.
>
> Thanks, Taryn
>
> On Aug 9, 2005, at 7:25 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:
>
> >
> > Also, you can't set up a Biodiesel plant in the US. It's
illegal to
> > sell fuel unless you have it tested by ASTM, which costs a
fortune.
> > You c

Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima

[Tom Irwin]

 


From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:39:25 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima>Hi Keith,>>You misinterpret my suspician. My suspician is that the site is >blocked from me. I work at an embassy school and will try again at >home.Sounds most improbable. 
 
Actually quite probable considering I was there as the school was built and the computing and telephone systems were put in. The embassy folks came in right after the normal lines were installed to place some additional equipment to the same lines. Neither I nor our computer systems person has any idea what that equipment does. Yet low and behold upon returning home I can access the site you mentioned. Big Brother is always watching.
 
Tom Irwin
 
>I don't always evaluate newspapers just individual reporters.It depends which newspapers, and which reporters.>I look for my U.S. news in British papers and my European news in >certain American publications. Thanks for the new site and >perspective on English newspapers.English newspapers? Whatever are you talking about? They're US anti-spin sites, as I said. You're not making a lot of sense Mr Irwin, and it's getting a little tiresome.Keith>Tom IrwinFrom: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>Sent: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 12:46:54 -0300>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima>>>Hi Keith,I can't read what will not come up on my computer screen. I have >>tried repeatedly to bring up that site and my computer just runs >>and runs. Suspicious for sure>>I think the suspicion is in the eye of the beholder, or perhaps his >computer set-up - SourceWatch and PR Watch and the Center for Media >and Democracy are excellent sources, thorough, reliable, >authoritative. I haven't seen John Stauber or Sheldon Rampton get it >wrong yet. To cast suspicion on an excellent anti-spin web resource >because you can't raise it on your browser is ridiculous.>>>but I'm merely ignorant not lazy.>>You're certainly lagging far behind if you haven't twigged the >Weekly Standard yet.>>>Tom Irwin>>Nothing wrong with it that I can see, it's always accessible.>>>Somebody quoted it as a source and I told him it's an anti-source. >>The links at the Weekly Standard entry at Disinfopedia unearth >>virtually the whole web of deceit:>>http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Weekly_Standard>>Weekly Standard Magazine - SourceWatch>>Or just go to:>http://www.sourcewatch.org/>>Scroll down to the search box on the left and enter "Weekly >Standard" (including quotes).>>Or go to PR Watch and do the same:>>http://www.prwatch.org/search.html>PR Watch: Search Website>>Or go to any number of places that expose shills and spinners and >liars. Just what sort of fine upholder of the 4th estate is the >Weekly Standard should hardly be news by now.>>Keith>>Hello Tom>>>Hi folks,I hope everyone is reading all the attachments to articles on this topic.>>I'd hoped everyone would be reading the responses, but it seems >>>not, in your case:>>>Somebody quoted it as a source and I told him it's an anti-source. The links at the Weekly Standard entry at Disinfopedia unearth virtually the whole web of deceit:http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Weekly_StandardWeekly Standard Magazine - SourceWatch>>http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/ >>>200 5-August/002200.html>>>[Biofuel] Fw: [HDR] August 06, 2005 -- date of risk?>>>I found the one in the Weekly Standard to be very credible.>>Sorry, but I think that's hilarious! The Weekly Standard credible! ROFL>>Keith>>Thanks Greg and April for this information. Perhaps that´s my own personal bias. How would you attack this Chris B. and Hakan? More government propaganda?Why Truman Dropped the BombFrom the August 8, 2005 issue: Sixty years after Hiroshima, we now have the secret intercepts that shaped his decision.by Richard B. Frank08/08/2005, Volume 010, Issue 44Tom IrwinFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Mon, 08 Aug 2005 19:49:37 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshimadoug,<*Part* of the Japanese government was trying to find a way to surrender,you've been misinformed. this is a misrepresentation of the facts. it washirohito himself, quite on his own, that asked the soviets to mediate a peace.later, the government junta voted unanimously in favor of sending an envoy tomoscow. the peace faction and the hardliners had their own reasons forsupporting the idea, but the point is that they took that action in the first placebecause hirohito wanted them to.these events transpired because the situation in japan was progressivelydeteriorating. there were growing fears that total social and economic collapse,and, therefore, m

Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...

[Tom Irwin]

Hi Todd,
 
You are such a hairsplitter. Big government or big corporate agribusinesses they ane now synonyms at least in the G8 world. I know your just endeavoring to be accurate.
 
Big Smile,
 
Tom Irwin


From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Tue, 09 Aug 2005 19:57:35 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...Not necessarily.More like the big hand(s) of soybean interest(s) manipulating a set of controls to as best as possible "guarantee" that they get their research, testing and investment monies back. Forget that the monies they used are from a per bushel tax on beans, designated for use to advance the production and consumption of soy, which biodiesel does.What they want is the tax money to operate off of and then after they spend it they want it replenished.The government just went along in the processing of incorporating biodiesel as an EPA registered fuel.Then again, on the other hand, the soybean interests could have kept the Tier I & II health effects studies for their use only as well as applicable only to soybean oil. But that's not how it ended up, as fuel from all oil and fat feedstocks fall under the rubric of "biodiesel."One could say that the EPA lobbied to keep the gate open a little wider than strictly soy, which in turn served the public's interest rather than specifically the special interest.Nobody is talking.Todd SwearingenTom Irwin wrote:> Hi All,> > Do I detect the big hand of government squeezing the small business > owner for corporate America here?> > Tom> >> > *From:* Ric Cuchetto [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]> *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> *Sent:* Tue, 09 Aug 2005 12:50:42 -0300> *Subject:* RE: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...>> ASTM testing is at the end of the process. We are also struggling with> taxes and licensing and posting bond related to transporting the waste> veggie oil. There is quite a bit of resistance to these technologies.> Truckers, renderers and petro companies do a much better job of> lobbying> than the grass roots folks. Even forward-thinking folks trying to> build> methanizers or biodiesel plants find that the insurance, licensing and> certification make it difficult to justify the costs. Let's not> even start> with the transportation (fuel) taxes.>> Commercialization is a big hurdle compared to dumpster diving and> making> fuel for your buddies.>> Regards,>> Ric Cuchetto> Northern california>> -Original Message-> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> <_javascript_:kh6k0("new","[EMAIL PROTECTED]")>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <_javascript_:kh6k0("new","[EMAIL PROTECTED]")>]> On Behalf Of TarynToo> Sent: August 09, 2005 08:04> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> <_javascript_:kh6k0("new","Biofuel@sustainablelists.org")>> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ASTM, was ... Diesel Won't Solve...>> Hi Mike,> Can you (or others) expand on this please? How much of a fortune?> I've> been searching for info on the tax and regulatory issues of producing> and selling BD on a small scale. I wouldn't mind joining or> starting a> co-op, but cooperatively-minded folk are thin on the ground in South> Florida.>> Thanks, Taryn>> On Aug 9, 2005, at 7:25 AM, Mike Weaver wrote:>> >> > Also, you can't set up a Biodiesel plant in the US. It's illegal to> > sell fuel unless you have it tested by ASTM, which costs a fortune.> > You can brew your own or as part of a coop.> >> > -Mike>>> ___> Biofuel mailing list> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> <_javascript_:kh6k0("new","Biofuel@sustainablelists.org")>> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000> messages):> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>>> ___> Biofuel mailing list> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> <_javascript_:kh6k0("new","Biofuel@sustainablelists.org")>> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000> messages):> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>> > >>>>___>Biofuel mailing list>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/>> >___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/

Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms

[Tom Irwin]

Hello Ken,
 
Many thanks for posting the research. I´ve downloaded it and will consume it this weekend.
 
Tom Irwin


From: Ken Gotberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 02:31:13 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms

I’ll combine my answers.
 
Bob
 
Yes, you need a cellulase to extract glucose and there are many with those from Trichoderma reesei being the most common and most studied with the genome known (?).  The glucose has many uses with ethanol being just one of them losing ~ half of the starting material as CO2.  Others like citric acid don’t lose material except that used for cell growth.
 
I should mention the dilute and concentrated acid methods are also viable options, but I prefer the biological route for use in the third world.  The EERE site has a lot of info about this and worth a look for those interested.  
 
There are a few plants actually in production making glucose whose names and locations I’ve forgotten -names like ADM, Cargil in places like Canada come to mind. .
 
With high fuel prices, the old technologies and some new ones may become viable again like during the first OPEC embargo circa 1970. 
 

 
Tom
 
The thesis (I think it is a thesis) is:
 
Pauliina Lankinen, “Liginolytic enzymes of the basidiomycetous fungi Agaricus bisporus and Phlebia radiata on lignocellulose-containing media”, Helsinki 2004
 
http://ethesis.helsinki.fi/julkaisut/maa/skemi/vk/lankinen/ligninol.pdf
 
There is a lot of research going on in Finland and Sweden because of he economic importance of forests in these countries.
 
 =
Greg
 MoS2 catalysis is another old idea with patents held by Dow and a new one held by a small company.  This is modified Fisher-Tropsch idea with first making syngas (H2 + CO) in various propitiations and the catalysis recombines as alcohols rather than hydrocarbons as is the case in the full-blown F-T.  No addition of H2 is necessary.  This also isn’t poisoned by sulphur because sulphur is part of the catalysis.


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Re: [Biofuel] methanol

[Jan Warnqvist]

Yes, old methanol is always a problem. 
Both for speedway racers and for biodiesel producers.
With best regards
Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
+ 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Ian & 
  Theresa Sims 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 3:16 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] methanol
  
  Thanks Jan
  But is that a yes or a no on question 
  1
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Jan Warnqvist 

To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 

Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 12:20 
AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] methanol

Hello Ian.
Answer #1: Methanol attracts water. 
So, old methanol is not anhydrous, which it has to when producing 
biodiesel.
Answer#2: Yes, but it takes a little 
longer.
Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
+ 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Ian 
  & Theresa Sims 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 10:49 
  AM
  Subject: [Biofuel] methanol
  
  I was talking to a friend that races 
  cars and he said that methanol kept for a long??time degraded and didn't 
  work as well. Is this a problem for us?
  As a matter of interest does biodiesel make 
  the sump oil in your car go as black as dinodiesel?
   
  Cheers Ian
  
  

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