Re: [Biofuel] thanks

[terzakis]

Only the abstract is in English.

If you like i can send you pictures, diagrams, etc in your e-mail if it has the
capacity and you will share it to others.

Stelios

Abstract

Alkali catalyzed, two-stage process for biodiesel production from used vegetable
oils mixture and evaluation of its fuel properties and specifications.


The European Union Directive 2003/30/EU for biofuels, under the prism of
increased environmental concerns (combating climate change, reducing local
environmental loads), energy and (free) market policies (achieving full
utilization of renewable energy resources; creating jobs and income in an EU
increasing to 25 member countries; contributing forward to a secure supply of
energy), and several other socioeconomic aspects] is driving industry to
produce biodiesel in order to supply the markets in each country with an
appropriate proportion of the conventional fuel demand. 
Biodiesel is the product of the reaction of vegetable oils and animal fats with
alcohols and it has many fuel specifications similar with those of conventional
(e.g. petrogenic) diesel. This new fuel seems to be environmentally friendlier
by means of safer exhaust emissions, even of exhaust pollutants of diesel
specified by low-sulphur content. In fact the need for using low-sulphur diesel
led to a decreasing lubricity, which has been suggested to improve by blending
conventional diesel with biodiesel. Thus, the need to produce biodiesel in a
financial wise manner that meets the above mentioned specifications is
obvious.
In this project an alkali catalyzed two-stage transesterification of 
mixtures
of used oils is studied (olive oil, corn oil, soy oil, sunflower oil). This
process is followed by an evaluation and quality control exercise of the end
products. According to our initial results the factors controlling the quality
of the end product are:
 I) The Free Fatty Acids (FFA) level in the used oils feedstock and iodine
value;
 II) the amount of alkali catalyst (calculated by using an empirical formula
introducing the previously mentioned FFA value);  
III) the proportion of different types of used oils in the reactant mixture, and
its effect on some fuel properties like viscosity; the cloud point, lubricity,
heating value and the pour point cold weather flow properties. From the
different feedstock used, the used olive-oil meets the EN 14214 specifications
but with the appropriate modifications all the above oils could be used to
produce a biofuel of acceptable quality for surface transport uses.
From the different used feedstock the used olive oil gave a fuel that meets the
EN 14214 specifications for biodiesel used in transport vehicles. The rest used
oils (cornoil, soybean oil, sunflower oil), produced biodiesel that meets the EN
14213 specifications of biodiesel used as heating oil. 
However, with the appropiate modifications (that are also proposed) in our
methodology a fuel that meets both specifications can be produced.

Incentives
In a real scale the exploitation, recovery and recycling of used oils can only
be done using mixtures of used oils given that many different types of used
oils, with different FFA level, are disposed. 
To the best of our knowledge no other work accomplishing all of the following 
has been reported:
1.  The development of a simple and safe methodology producing biodiesel of
acceptable quality (under the EN 14214 or 14213 specifications) from a mixture
of used oils feedstock.
2.  The establishment of a simple formula of the quantity of the catalyst 
needed,
depending on the FFA level of oils, saturation level and types of edible used
oils.
3.  The estimation of the diesel fuel properties of the biodiesel product 
when
the proportion of the types of used oils is known.














Αρχικό μήνυμα από  bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Congratulations Stelios, I think you made a wise decision on your thesis 
> work. It looks like you will be in demand.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> >Dear Prof Allen, Keith, et Al
> >
> >With your help i made my dream possible.
> >I received my MSc in Environmental Engineering, and my diploma is titled:
> >Process development for biodiesel production from waste edible oils and
> quality
> >control of the produced alternative fuel. 
> >  
> >
> 
> Is there an electronic version of your thesis you could share with us? 
> In english hopefully?
> 
> >My achivement however which i am really proud of is that i received three
> awards
> >and 2 grants in national level (Greece), and i am waiting for another one
> which
> >i replied lately in France. (very intereresting meeting opportunity to
> exchange
> >ideas there www.innovact.com they have also a agro-meeting section)
> >
> >My research interest is now on reclaiming biodiesel byproducts ang i am
> >considering the following: organic fertiliser(compost), natural
> antioxidants
> >(polyphenols, mainly from used olive oil),tocopherols, biopolymers,
> metabolites
> >of glycerol (e.x.

[Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day

[marilyn]

This was forwarded to me, so I am sending it to all of  you to 
forward if you want to.


It has been calculated that if everyone in the United States and 
Canada did not purchase a drop of gasoline for one day and all 
at the same time, the oil companies would choke on their 
stockpiles.

At the same time it would hit the entire industry with a net loss of 
over 4.6 billion dollars which affects the bottom lines of the oil 
companies.

Therefore September 1st has been formally declared "stick it up 
their behind " day and the people of these two nations should not 
buy a single drop of gasoline that day.

The only way this can be done is if you forward this e-mail to as 
manypeople as you can and as quickly as you can to get the 
word out.

Waiting on the government to step in and control the prices is not 
going to happen. What happened to the reduction and control in 
prices that the Arab nations promised two weeks ago?

Remember one thing, not only is the price of gasoline going up 
but at the same time airlines are forced to raise their prices, 
trucking companies are forced to raise their prices which effects 
prices on everything that is shipped. Things like food, clothing, 
building materials, medical supplies, etc. Who pays in the end? 
We do!

We can make a difference. If they don't get the message after 
one day, we will do it again and again.

So do your part and spread the word. Forward this email to 
everyone you know.

Mark your calendars and make September 1st a day that the 
citizens of the United States and Canada say "enough is 
enough"



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Re: [Biofuel] Another use for glycerine

[Ken Gotberg]

You can make monoglycerides by reacting glycerol with FAME in mixed phase solvent systems.  These are used as emulsifiers in food and pharmaceutical products.
 
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Re: [Biofuel] Katrina's Effect on Petroleum Prices

[Stan]

I'm not complaining per se. It got me thinking that they might push the 
cost of petroleum diesel ever higher, and and increase the usage of 
higher blends and pure biodiesel.

Appal Energy wrote:

>Stan,
>
>I wouldn't go so far as to call the hurricane a disaster. It is what it 
>is, a hurricane. It's the human component that propigates tones of 
>"disaster." Dispense with the humans and wallah! No disaster. Just a 
>hurricane and the rejuvination cycle that follows.
>
>As for the petroleum industry profiteering from a natural event? Why is 
>anyone complaining? At least on this list?
>
>People with a bent towards renewables, efficiency and conservation have 
>been begging for higher fuel prices for decades in order to stimulate 
>more activity in the progressive energy sector. Now that we're getting 
>what is needed, do you really believe that it's right to complain?
>
>Todd Swearingen
>
>A firm proponent of "Intelligent De-evolution."
>
>
>
>Stan wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I've been watching the progress of the storm. 175mph winds, going 
>>dead-on for New Orleans... And I can't help but feel that the oil 
>>industry will use this horrible disaster as a change to weasel 
>>themselves more money.
>>
>>___
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>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>>
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>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
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>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>
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>
>  
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?

[Chris]

Peter,

You cannot put a manual transmission in a turbocharged 123, it would be a 
slug, and would cost a fortune.  You could do it with the 240D as it was 
normally aspirated.  The torque curve is just way different with a turbo.

I think what Jan was referring to as a grinder is the in-tank fuel screen. 
A very good idea is to take this out and replace it with a pre-filter just 
outside the tank.  It will clog, and you will have to change it, one way or 
the other.  You would do well to drain the fuel tank before starting anyway, 
so you might as well take out the screen at the same time.  Door locks are 
vacuum actuated, and vacuum leaks are fairly straightforward to track down 
and fix.  For an entire universe of information about your new car, 
subscribe to   http://www.mercedeslist.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes and use 
the archives.  I have found it to be invaluable with my 1985 123 wagon. 
Also, the original factory service manuals are available on CD if you wish 
to make ambitious repairs.  Chances are, you won't need to though. Good 
luck.

Chris K
Cayce, SC





- Original Message - 
From: "Peter Childers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?


> Thanks for confirming my inexperienced assumption that the MB Diesels are
> bulletproof. I think as long as the odometer is a true 165K Mi and not the
> second rotation then the engine should be ok. The climate control and door
> locks are minor at this stage as I will get it operating with BioDiesel
> first and worry about the creature comforts later. I would like higher
> mileage but if I want to step into BioDiesel I can't wait for the perfect
> car. Unfortunately I can't test the transmission before I buy but the 
> listed
> value is anywhere from Zero to $250, so the initial money won't be too 
> bad.
> A good manual should be about $150-$200. Thanks for all the input.
> Peter
> - Original Message - 
> From: "S. Chapin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 11:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?
>
>
>> Peter Childers wrote:
>>
>>> This is my first try at this list so excuse me if I don't get it yet.
>>> I need to acquire a diesel vehicle before I start to experiment with
>>> BioDiesel. I have looked at a Mercedes 300D that has not run in about
>>> 4 years and has 165K miles on it. I think it is about a 1985. I
>>> haven't talked to the owner yet. Can anyone give me some tips as to
>>> whether this car would suit, from an affordability standpoint, using
>>> for Biodiesel. I am very skilled mechanically so I can put the vehicle
>>> into operation with my own labor, but I expect parts to be expensive.
>>> I am not sure what I may need to do to it for Biodiesel. It is a five
>>> cylinder but I'm not sure if it is a turbo or not (needs a second
>>> look). I am also looking at (preferred) a Volkswagen Rabbit diesel.
>>> That one is a long shot right now. Thanks for any help.
>>> Peter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>___
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>messages):
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Peter,
>>The 300d 123chassis is a fairly bullet proof car, if a bit heavy.
>> The 85 would be the last year, or maybe 86, they were made. Weak points
>> are the climate control device (chrysler) and door lock system. Some
>> automatics had problems, but overall they are comfortable, strong if not
>> blazingly fast transport. Many 240d(4cyl), 300d, 300d turbo and also gas
>> versions were squeezed into the 123. If you can find a manual, mostly
>> european cars, put it in.
>> Mileage will be high 20s-mid 30s.
>> The older 240d, and 220d were in the 115 (maybe 114 I get them mixed
>> up) were lighter I think, and more US cars had the manual, some 5cyl
>> cars are about but mostly the 240. I think a 220d is the record holder
>> for over 1 million miles on the clock... I think. I had an older 190d
>> with over 400k and still running strong on b100 with just a little
>> sweating from fuel lines.
>> Parts can be found, and not terribly expensive unless from the dealer.
>> Try recycle shops and net parts places.
>> Cheers,
>> S.Chapin
>>
>> ___
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Re: [Biofuel] The myth behind "non-taxable, " off-road fuel was Re: There derrivatives of Barrel Oil, have you wondered ?

[Marty Phee]

>>The petroleum distributors claim that it costs approximately $0.25 per 
>>gallon to dye the off-road fuel and then carry the two separate inventories.

If that's true it's bullshit.  I've been to the terminals and worked on their 
systems.  The dye is added at the nozzel going into the truck, not in the 
storage vessel.  There aren't seperated storage tanks for off/on road diesel.  
Also, there's no way in hell it costs $0.25/gallon.  If it did that would be 
liquid gold given the amount actually added to the fuel.  


Appal Energy wrote:

>That's only partially true. Compare the price of off-road and on-road 
>diesel. You'll note that the difference is not the approximate $0.50 in 
>state and federal excise taxes assessed per gallon. It's closer to $0.25 
>per gallon.
>
>The petroleum distributors claim that it costs approximately $0.25 per 
>gallon to dye the off-road fuel and then carry the two separate inventories.
>
>While part of that argument holds water, most off-road fuel is sold in 
>bulk quantities by specific distributors, not every island at every fuel 
>depot.
>
>Essentially, the tax break the government giveth, the petroleum 
>distributors taketh away.
>
>Todd Swearingen
>
>
>Marty Phee wrote:
>
>  
>
>>The reason you pay taxes on gas, diesel or biofuel is for road 
>>construction and repair.
>>
>>Hence farmers and off road equipment do not pay taxes on the fuel they 
>>use.  That's why it's dyed and why you go to jail if found using it on 
>>road.  Tax evasion.
>>
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>>Have you ever wondered why all oil companies sell barrel oil at the same 
>>>price ? Scenario; Could it be that all the oil companies are owned by one 
>>>parent company? why not most other large companies do the same thing, they 
>>>will have a offshore corporation who will own an onshore LLC or LTD. The 
>>>company I work for does the same thing, the parent company is in Sweden 
>>>where foreign source profits are non-taxable, meanwhile it's workers onshore 
>>>are the ones paying taxes, certainly not them, but taxes are a different 
>>>animal for another discussion group. A couple other things I do not 
>>>understand, one ; if we have gained control of a large infrastucture oil 
>>>producing country why is the price of gasoline still going so high? Did they 
>>>do this for that objective ? Last thought.. As supposedly a free country why 
>>>do we need a license and pay a tax to sell something that comes naturally 
>>>out of the ground such as biofuel ? It seems that this may be a way to 
>>>control the cost of that too.Myk 
>>>HillNorth Carolina
>>>
>>>_
>>>



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Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members

[Marty Phee]

There aren't worms and viruses for linux per sa.  In order for your 
linux box to get infected it has to offer services to the outside world 
and linux (the kernel) doesn't have services (ie: samba for windows 
interaction, apache for a web server, inetd for telent/ftp...).  All 
those services are addons.  Out of the box most distributions are closed 
to everything from the outside.  You can't even ping the server.  You 
have to explicitly turn services on and that's where you get worms.  
Keep your sevices up to date and you won't have problems.

Now viruses.  I think of viruses as something coming from an email.  All 
email programs I know of with linux allow you to turn off javascript or 
don't even support it in email and you can't even execute a program or 
script that might have come on the email period.  In order to execute it 
you would have to explicitly save it and then mark it as an executable 
to even run it.  Even if you did all of that the worst thing you could 
do to your machine is wipe out your user id.  Unless your running as 
root, which you absolutely shouldn't, the virus can't infect the computer.

Out of the box Windows has many services running,  listens on many ports 
that you don't even know of and most people run as the admin of the 
computer.  Don't even mention IE. 


Mike Weaver wrote:

>I assure you that worms and viruses exist for linux.  In fact, the first 
>big Internet worm was a unix (almost identical to Linux) worm.  Google 
>Robert Morris.
>
>Ray J wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I have heard of several viruses for Linux and apple stuff
>>
>>Ray J
>>
>>
>>Rumen Slavov wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>>   Hi, Friends,
>>>It seems to me all of you are intelligent persons,
>>>so I wonder why you are using Microsoft bullsh...? As
>>>far as it is well known, there is not such animal -
>>>virus or worm or Trojan - for Linux! For some time now
>>>there are several distribution of Live CD`s, which
>>>work even in an empty hard like Knoppix and many
>>>others! My OS is Slackware Linux 10.1 and I never had
>>>any problems in the net. And it is free of charge. The
>>>OppenOffice 1.1.4 office is well ahead of MS office -
>>>it opens files no matter which application is involved
>>>in the creation ( for example MS office XP can not
>>>open document written with MS office 97). Everything
>>>can be downloaded free from the net and the
>>>distributions are equipped with more than 2000
>>>applications! All you need is to compile idconfig (the
>>>network connection) and you are free of problems. Me,
>>>personally, I do not have antivirus - I don`t need it.
>>>Try Linux!
>>>Best - R. Slavov 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
>>>http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 
>>>
>>>
>>>___
>>>Biofuel mailing list
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>>>
>>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>>
>>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
>>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>
>>


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[Biofuel] MB Diesel for bio-diesel use

[Douglas Smith]

Peter Childers asks about MB 300D.

My favorite car of all time was a 1980 MB 300D. (they were imported to 
the U.S. from 1979 'till 1985) I would have another in a flash, and may 
get one again soon. It is a sublime car to drive, especially on the 
road! It has an unbelievable turning radius, making it very 
maneuverable for a 4-door sedan.

The 5-cylinder is a great engine, and even without the turbo performed 
quite well. It was even fast enough for me!  LOL  Most advised me I'd 
be disappointed with it's pick-up and such - but this engine will take 
anything you throw at it, so I just nailed it most of the time off the 
line and was always satisfied.

The ONE thing that I think is most important is that THESE CARS ARE 
SAFE!!! I was rear-ended by a rather fast moving Mitsubishi while 
stopped at an intersection and pushed not only into but through a very 
large intersection - Broadway and Van Ness in SF for those who know it 
- and there was NO visible damage!!! You had to feel the hard rubber on 
the bumper to feel where the headlight glass had broken against it. The 
Mitsu was collapsed all the way to the cowl (windshield) and was 
clearly totaled!

As far as I'm concerned, the MB Diesel is THE car of choice even 
without bio-fuels! I'd be a bit concerned about the 4-yrs non-use, but 
165K miles is mild on that car. When I bought mine, my MB mechanic told 
me that if it had less than 175K on it and when warmed up, with the 
oil-filler cap removed, didn't smoke out that opening, then don't even 
bother to bring it to him, just buy it since it would just be broken in.

My mechanic - a certified MB mechanic - has worked on a MB 300 TD 
(wagon) owned by a man from Marin County who has been influential in 
the rebirth of bio-diesel. This vehicle has been driven for 10 yrs or 
so on bio-diesel, and the mechanic says the engine is cleaner and runs 
better, and is generally in better shape than 10 years ago!

Get the best one you can get and go!

Doug

PS - a couple of tips. The thing to look for when buying is how well 
the such things as climate control, vacuum system (door locks et al) 
are working. The climate control unit was built for them by Chrysler 
and was very good, but didn't last as long as MB components, and it's a 
complex system. ALSO be sure you learn how to manually blow out the 
fuel injectors. Anytime mine started to run less than well, I'd blow 
them out (takes three-minutes) and it would be as if I'd just done a 
tune-up.


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Re: [Biofuel] Katrina's Effect on Petroleum Prices

[damiandolan]

Hi All,

Big Turbine & $100 barrel? ;^)

dD


Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote:

<  
<  Stan,
<  
<  I wouldn't go so far as to call the hurricane a disaster. It is what it 
<  is, a hurricane. It's the human component that propigates tones of 
<  "disaster." Dispense with the humans and wallah! No disaster. Just a 
<  hurricane and the rejuvination cycle that follows.
<  
<  As for the petroleum industry profiteering from a natural event? Why is 
<  anyone complaining? At least on this list?
<  
<  People with a bent towards renewables, efficiency and conservation have 
<  been begging for higher fuel prices for decades in order to stimulate 
<  more activity in the progressive energy sector. Now that we're getting 
<  what is needed, do you really believe that it's right to complain?
<  
<  Todd Swearingen
<  
<  A firm proponent of "Intelligent De-evolution."
<  
<  
<  
<  Stan wrote:
<  
<  >I've been watching the progress of the storm. 175mph winds, going 
<  >dead-on for New Orleans... And I can't help but feel that the oil 
<  >industry will use this horrible disaster as a change to weasel 
<  >themselves more money.
<  >
<  >___
<  >Biofuel mailing list
<  >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
<  >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
<  >
<  >Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
<  >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
<  >
<  >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):
<  >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
<  >
<  >
<  >
<  >  
<  >
<  
<  ___
<  Biofuel mailing list
<  Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
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<  
<  Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
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<  
<  Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
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<  
<  



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Re: [Biofuel] Katrina's Effect on Petroleum Prices

[Appal Energy]

Stan,

I wouldn't go so far as to call the hurricane a disaster. It is what it 
is, a hurricane. It's the human component that propigates tones of 
"disaster." Dispense with the humans and wallah! No disaster. Just a 
hurricane and the rejuvination cycle that follows.

As for the petroleum industry profiteering from a natural event? Why is 
anyone complaining? At least on this list?

People with a bent towards renewables, efficiency and conservation have 
been begging for higher fuel prices for decades in order to stimulate 
more activity in the progressive energy sector. Now that we're getting 
what is needed, do you really believe that it's right to complain?

Todd Swearingen

A firm proponent of "Intelligent De-evolution."



Stan wrote:

>I've been watching the progress of the storm. 175mph winds, going 
>dead-on for New Orleans... And I can't help but feel that the oil 
>industry will use this horrible disaster as a change to weasel 
>themselves more money.
>
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>  
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members

[Mike Weaver]

But don't get me wrong - I love Linux and we use it for almost all our 
servers and more than a few desktops along w/ OSX and some BSD.

Kirk McLoren wrote:

> At present Linux viruses number less than 100. Since a lot of 
> government entitiies are moving to Linux I assure you these numbers 
> WILL change. A good article at:
>
> http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT3307459975.html
>
> here is the description of the article -- go to link to read.
>
> The virus threat to Linux
> by Jill Ratkevic
>
> Do you really need to install antivirus software on your LinuxOS-based 
> computer? You just might. The topic of computer viruses and Linux has 
> caused considerable discussion in recent weeks. Mixed computing 
> environments, servers, and growing market share all increase the risk 
> of Linux as a target and vehicle for malicious viruses.
>
> DesktopLinux.com talks with CEO Keith Peer of top Linux antivirus 
> vendor Central Command to discover where vulnerabilities exist, the 
> cost to companies, and the growing interest in Linux from virus 
> writers . . .
>
> I assure you that worms and viruses exist for linux.  In fact, the
> first
> big Internet worm was a unix (almost identical to Linux) worm.  Google
> Robert Morris.
>
> Ray J wrote:
>
> >I have heard of several viruses for Linux and apple stuff
> >
> >Ray J
> >
> >
> >Rumen Slavov wrote:
> >
> > 
> >
> >>Hi, Friends,
> >> It seems to me all of you are intelligent persons,
> >>so I wonder why you are using Microsoft bullsh...? As
> >>far as it is well known, there is not such animal -
> >>virus or worm or Trojan - for Linux! For some time now
> >>there are several distribution of Live CD`s, which
> >>work even in an empty hard like Knoppix and many
> >>others! My OS is Slackware Linux 10.1 and I never had
> >>any problems in the net.
>
> 
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
> 
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers

[Mike Weaver]

wait...are talking about Streeter or the Bush administration?

"I want my SUV" sung to the tune of "I want my MTV..."

Appal Energy wrote:

>And I was so looking forward to see how he would set his own noose in 
>motion by his own processes.
>
>Oh well.
>
>
>
>Keith Addison wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hi Todd
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>>Dogonnit Keith,
>>>   
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>Sorry about that.
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>>If the guy is going to behave in such a fashion, those who have to
>>>suffer it should at least be able to grill him about his generalities
>>>and stereotyping until he's forced to admit that there is a lot more to
>>>the bag of beans than he would care to recognize.
>>>   
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>He won't admit it if he doesn't want to, no matter what you do, 
>>you've seen it yourself. Anyway, he's been here for two and a half 
>>years already, if he doesn't care to recognise it by now, then again 
>>he doesn't want to. (I guess that's his prerogative, but it's not his 
>>prerogative to dump it on us, nor on anybody.) Grilling him's 
>>unlikely to get anywhere, countering his views would show him up to 
>>everyone else but he still wouldn't see it. I think there's no 
>>shortage of such demonstrations in the list archives and I doubt 
>>doing it again this time would have added anything.
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>>Just throttling the guy lets him off too easy. Now it's he who gets to
>>>claim that his sensibilities were offended, further enforcing and
>>>propigating his peculiar beliefs elsewhere.
>>>
>>>Give 'em enough rope to hang themselves. If they're smart, they won't
>>>use it all.
>>>   
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>Wouldn't it be true that if they were smart they wouldn't do it in 
>>the first place? He already hanged himself, he ignored everything and 
>>everyone, that's not smart.
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>>If they aren't, the world should at least be given the
>>>pleasure of watching them swing at the end of the yardarm of their own
>>>making.
>>>   
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>:-) Do you mean in the sense that justice must be seen to be done or 
>>something like that? You might have a point. But really it just 
>>wastes time, it's a distraction, it clutters the place up, makes it 
>>more difficult for serious people to carry on a reasonable 
>>discussion. It's exactly that kind of crap that's truly "off-topic". 
>>It doesn't take much to drag a list down, as we all know, just one or 
>>two heedless people who want it all their own way. It's because this 
>>kept happening time and time again that people started yelling "NO 
>>TOPIC-COPS!" in the first place, years ago. We had it all out then, a 
>>few times, and that's when the rule was made. We formalised it a year 
>>ago, me and a group of list members, the whole list concurred, and 
>>that's that. Now it happens much less.
>>
>>Has anything much changed, is there anything more to it now than the 
>>following?
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
What does it amount to anyway? "You're only allowed to
talk about what **I** want to talk about"? Usually it's either that
or a poorly disguised demand for censorship. Or a complaint that
there isn't any censorship, which looks like Duff's case. Not that
he'd call it censorship.
 



>>There's been a constant trickle of these people for nearly five 
>>years, and what most of them have in common is that no matter what 
>>you do, no matter what's proved or disproved and resides in a 
>>publicly accessible archives for all to see, if he wants to claim 
>>that it's his sensibilities that were offended and wants to propagate 
>>his beliefs elsewhere, HE'LL DO IT ANYWAY.
>>
>>Another thing we've found is that it doesn't matter. If people are 
>>smart they'll check, ask a few questions, and quickly discover that 
>>he's full of it. If not, then the same applies - what does it matter?
>>
>>Todd, I'm not just dismissing what you say, you make some good 
>>points, as ever. I'll surely keep them in mind. Too late this time 
>>though.
>>
>>I should say I don't know what Duff will do or won't do, I'm not 
>>trying to hang all this on him personally, all I can say is how other 
>>people who've expressed the same views have behaved in the past.
>>
>>Anyway it's not my concern. My often-stated position is that as 
>>list-owner my first obligation is to the list itself and the issues 
>>it represents, my second obligation is to the individual members, 
>>UNTIL they put the first obligation at risk. We do everything we can 
>>to make sure list members know what kind of community they've joined 
>>and how to get the best out of it, if they don't take any notice 
>>that's their problem. It's their loss too - it wouldn't be easy to 
>>persuade me that heedless and selfish people are any loss to the 
>>list. It isn't here for "outreach", it doesn't have a missionary 
>>role, it's only here to be useful to its members (many of whom use it 
>>as a source for their own outreach).
>>
>>Hey, Todd, all this isn't aimed at you

Re: [Biofuel] Best van for WVO?

[damiandolan]

VW transporter runs best in europe




Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote:

<  
<  Where are you?  There isn't much in the US, but Europe and other places 
<  have pretty good options.
<  
<  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
<  
<  >Advice requested - What's a decent diesel van that could hold six or seven
<  >people comfortably? Can be a traditional style van, or a bigger model - a
<  >mail truck or small step van that we can make into a miniature
<  >camper/day-tripper. I'm looking to replace a Grand Caravan with something
<  >that will take a WVO conversion.
<  >
<  >
<  >
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<  >
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<  >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
<  >
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messages):
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<  >  
<  >
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<  
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[Biofuel] biodiesel from plastic

[Andy Karpay]

Message: 8
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 16:01:50 -0500
From: "John Mullan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel from plastic
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

But what are you going to burn to attain "high enough temperatures" to
break down the plastics so you can get more fuel to process more
plastics?

Well, this borders on "over unity", (which it is not), and is mostly
theoretical in nature, but I have seen it almost work.
Imagine a piece of paper (or plastic) burning.  Now, this give off
enough energy to 1) emit light 2) emit heat  3) emit enough energy to
heat a portion next to the flame enough to vaporize and  4) ignite to
continue burning. 

Now, imagine, taking the constituents out into separate paths, use the
gas and some oil for a heat source, continue processing.  In theory,
there is enough energy to heat the plastic and vaporize (but not burn).
Instead of burning the gas you re-introduce it to burn externally and
give its heat to the process.  Thermal Depolymerization or Pyrolisis, is
being used, or at least experimented with.  It works for not only
plastics but also rubbers, tires, manures, coal, and other carbonatious
materials such as 'turkey guts'.  Some have greater energy output than
others.

AK

On 8/28/2005, "Andy Karpay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>If my memory serves me right, "biodiesel from plastic" is neither "bio"
>nor "diesel"  The petroleum products from the feedstock (oil) in
>plastics can be reclaimed by heating in an oxygen deficient atmosphere.
>High enough temperatures will break the plastics down to a liquid and
>then gas.  The gas is collected and has the approximate btu content of
>methane (perhaps more).  Some will coalesce, or condense into an oily
>substance.  I suppose this substance can be refined to act like a
diesel
>fuel.  It has many btu's in it too.
>
>AK
>
>







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Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members

[Doug Foskey]

Hi,
  this is why I use Linux as an operating system (as do some others on the 
list). Linux systems have none of the Microsoft 'hooks' that the most common 
virii use. 
 I have noticed a few members are sending HTML emails. Could I request that 
everyone sends in plain text? (this is achieved by going into the email 
program setup and either turning off HTML or turning on 'text only', 
depending on the email client.)
 Hakan has given good advice with attachments. Well worth following.

 As an aside, it is now possible to run Linux from a CD/DVD, without a full 
system install. This means that if you wish, you can use Linux for browsing, 
& email (But of course you would need to reload that other operating system 
to run some of the 'normal' programs, until you see the light & realise that 
there are other options that are usually free as well).

regards Doug




On Monday 29 August 2005 6:46, Hakan Falk wrote:
> It is one or more members of the list that got a
> virus and it is going through saved email and
> send to the addresses. It is a quite normal

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Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members

[Hakan Falk]

It is one or more members of the list that got a 
virus and it is going through saved email and 
send to the addresses. It is a quite normal 
behavior from a virus. It will pick both receiver 
and sender, so it is very difficult to identify 
the computer who sends it, other than with the IP 
addresses. The list it safe, but it is a reason 
for everybody to check their computers.

Personally I use Eudora, a free email client and 
also in my opinion the best, since it do not 
execute any attachments. Outlook is very 
dangerous and also have some Microsoft handles in it.

I also use Norton and do very frequent virus 
scans and it scans my mail. I never open an 
attachment, I never open anything that is not 
expected and I am not sure of the origin and that 
it is safe. Even if a friend send an unexpected 
attachment, I ask him before I open it. I have 
friends who loves to send jokes and funny 
pictures around, but I never open them, since 
this is the sure way to get surprises.

Hakan

At 20:45 28/08/2005, you wrote:
> >Hi All,
> >
> >My firewall just blocked a worm sent to me under the guise of
> ><mailto:Keit 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > 
> Sounds>[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Sounds like we´ve got ourselves
> >a nasty troll. Take care. My firewall identifies it as W32/Lovgate
> >AC worm the attachment was a message pif.
> >
> >Tom Irwin
>
>It's not a troll, it's just a new virus stealing people's email
>addresses from address books and emails on infected computers
>(MILLIONS of them) and using them as false sender's addresses, same
>as usual. I'm not infected, Journey to Forever isn't infected, and
>the list isn't infected either. Some people have reported receiving
>virus messages claiming to come from biofuel@sustainablelists.org,
>but they're also frauds, the list cannot distribute viruses.
>
>Best wishes
>
>Keith Addison
>Journey to Forever
>KYOTO Pref., Japan
>http://journeytoforever.org/
>Biofuel list owner



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Re: [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers

[Appal Energy]

And I was so looking forward to see how he would set his own noose in 
motion by his own processes.

Oh well.



Keith Addison wrote:

>Hi Todd
>
>  
>
>>Dogonnit Keith,
>>
>>
>
>Sorry about that.
>
>  
>
>>If the guy is going to behave in such a fashion, those who have to
>>suffer it should at least be able to grill him about his generalities
>>and stereotyping until he's forced to admit that there is a lot more to
>>the bag of beans than he would care to recognize.
>>
>>
>
>He won't admit it if he doesn't want to, no matter what you do, 
>you've seen it yourself. Anyway, he's been here for two and a half 
>years already, if he doesn't care to recognise it by now, then again 
>he doesn't want to. (I guess that's his prerogative, but it's not his 
>prerogative to dump it on us, nor on anybody.) Grilling him's 
>unlikely to get anywhere, countering his views would show him up to 
>everyone else but he still wouldn't see it. I think there's no 
>shortage of such demonstrations in the list archives and I doubt 
>doing it again this time would have added anything.
>
>  
>
>>Just throttling the guy lets him off too easy. Now it's he who gets to
>>claim that his sensibilities were offended, further enforcing and
>>propigating his peculiar beliefs elsewhere.
>>
>>Give 'em enough rope to hang themselves. If they're smart, they won't
>>use it all.
>>
>>
>
>Wouldn't it be true that if they were smart they wouldn't do it in 
>the first place? He already hanged himself, he ignored everything and 
>everyone, that's not smart.
>
>  
>
>>If they aren't, the world should at least be given the
>>pleasure of watching them swing at the end of the yardarm of their own
>>making.
>>
>>
>
>:-) Do you mean in the sense that justice must be seen to be done or 
>something like that? You might have a point. But really it just 
>wastes time, it's a distraction, it clutters the place up, makes it 
>more difficult for serious people to carry on a reasonable 
>discussion. It's exactly that kind of crap that's truly "off-topic". 
>It doesn't take much to drag a list down, as we all know, just one or 
>two heedless people who want it all their own way. It's because this 
>kept happening time and time again that people started yelling "NO 
>TOPIC-COPS!" in the first place, years ago. We had it all out then, a 
>few times, and that's when the rule was made. We formalised it a year 
>ago, me and a group of list members, the whole list concurred, and 
>that's that. Now it happens much less.
>
>Has anything much changed, is there anything more to it now than the following?
>
>  
>
>>>What does it amount to anyway? "You're only allowed to
>>>talk about what **I** want to talk about"? Usually it's either that
>>>or a poorly disguised demand for censorship. Or a complaint that
>>>there isn't any censorship, which looks like Duff's case. Not that
>>>he'd call it censorship.
>>>  
>>>
>
>There's been a constant trickle of these people for nearly five 
>years, and what most of them have in common is that no matter what 
>you do, no matter what's proved or disproved and resides in a 
>publicly accessible archives for all to see, if he wants to claim 
>that it's his sensibilities that were offended and wants to propagate 
>his beliefs elsewhere, HE'LL DO IT ANYWAY.
>
>Another thing we've found is that it doesn't matter. If people are 
>smart they'll check, ask a few questions, and quickly discover that 
>he's full of it. If not, then the same applies - what does it matter?
>
>Todd, I'm not just dismissing what you say, you make some good 
>points, as ever. I'll surely keep them in mind. Too late this time 
>though.
>
>I should say I don't know what Duff will do or won't do, I'm not 
>trying to hang all this on him personally, all I can say is how other 
>people who've expressed the same views have behaved in the past.
>
>Anyway it's not my concern. My often-stated position is that as 
>list-owner my first obligation is to the list itself and the issues 
>it represents, my second obligation is to the individual members, 
>UNTIL they put the first obligation at risk. We do everything we can 
>to make sure list members know what kind of community they've joined 
>and how to get the best out of it, if they don't take any notice 
>that's their problem. It's their loss too - it wouldn't be easy to 
>persuade me that heedless and selfish people are any loss to the 
>list. It isn't here for "outreach", it doesn't have a missionary 
>role, it's only here to be useful to its members (many of whom use it 
>as a source for their own outreach).
>
>Hey, Todd, all this isn't aimed at you either, just restating policy.
>
>Best wishes
>
>Keith Addison
>Journey to Forever
>KYOTO Pref., Japan
>http://journeytoforever.org/
>Biofuel list owner
>
>
>  
>
>>Todd Swearingen
>>
>>
>>
>>Keith Addison wrote:
>>
>>
>>
  Greetings to all, I am an avid alternative fuel
advocate who is building a large home sized processor.
I do hope you will rea

Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members

[Kirk McLoren]

At present Linux viruses number less than 100. Since a lot of government entitiies are moving to Linux I assure you these numbers WILL change. A good article at:
http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT3307459975.html
here is the description of the article -- go to link to read.




The virus threat to Linux 

by Jill RatkevicDo you really need to install antivirus software on your LinuxOS-based computer? You just might. The topic of computer viruses and Linux has caused considerable discussion in recent weeks. Mixed computing environments, servers, and growing market share all increase the risk of Linux as a target and vehicle for malicious viruses. DesktopLinux.com talks with CEO Keith Peer of top Linux antivirus vendor Central Command to discover where vulnerabilities exist, the cost to companies, and the growing interest in Linux from virus writers . . .
I assure you that worms and viruses exist for linux.  In fact, the first big Internet worm was a unix (almost identical to Linux) worm.  Google Robert Morris.Ray J wrote:>I have heard of several viruses for Linux and apple stuff>>Ray J>>>Rumen Slavov wrote:>>  >>>    Hi, Friends,>> It seems to me all of you are intelligent persons,>>so I wonder why you are using Microsoft bullsh...? As>>far as it is well known, there is not such animal ->>virus or worm or Trojan - for Linux! For some time now>>there are several distribution of Live CD`s, which>>work even in an empty hard like Knoppix and many>>others! My OS is Slackware Linux 10.1 and I never had>>any problems in the net.
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[Biofuel] The myth behind "non-taxable, " off-road fuel was Re: There derrivatives of Barrel Oil, have you wondered ?

[Appal Energy]

That's only partially true. Compare the price of off-road and on-road 
diesel. You'll note that the difference is not the approximate $0.50 in 
state and federal excise taxes assessed per gallon. It's closer to $0.25 
per gallon.

The petroleum distributors claim that it costs approximately $0.25 per 
gallon to dye the off-road fuel and then carry the two separate inventories.

While part of that argument holds water, most off-road fuel is sold in 
bulk quantities by specific distributors, not every island at every fuel 
depot.

Essentially, the tax break the government giveth, the petroleum 
distributors taketh away.

Todd Swearingen


Marty Phee wrote:

>The reason you pay taxes on gas, diesel or biofuel is for road 
>construction and repair.
>
>Hence farmers and off road equipment do not pay taxes on the fuel they 
>use.  That's why it's dyed and why you go to jail if found using it on 
>road.  Tax evasion.
>
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Have you ever wondered why all oil companies sell barrel oil at the same 
>>price ? Scenario; Could it be that all the oil companies are owned by one 
>>parent company? why not most other large companies do the same thing, they 
>>will have a offshore corporation who will own an onshore LLC or LTD. The 
>>company I work for does the same thing, the parent company is in Sweden where 
>>foreign source profits are non-taxable, meanwhile it's workers onshore are 
>>the ones paying taxes, certainly not them, but taxes are a different animal 
>>for another discussion group. A couple other things I do not understand, one 
>>; if we have gained control of a large infrastucture oil producing country 
>>why is the price of gasoline still going so high? Did they do this for that 
>>objective ? Last thought.. As supposedly a free country why do we need a 
>>license and pay a tax to sell something that comes naturally out of the 
>>ground such as biofuel ? It seems that this may be a way to control the cost 
>>of that too.Myk 
>>HillNorth Carolina
>>
>>___
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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>
>
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel from plastic

[John Mullan]

But what are you going to burn to attain "high enough temperatures" to
break down the plastics so you can get more fuel to process more
plastics?

On 8/28/2005, "Andy Karpay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>If my memory serves me right, "biodiesel from plastic" is neither "bio"
>nor "diesel"  The petroleum products from the feedstock (oil) in
>plastics can be reclaimed by heating in an oxygen deficient atmosphere.
>High enough temperatures will break the plastics down to a liquid and
>then gas.  The gas is collected and has the approximate btu content of
>methane (perhaps more).  Some will coalesce, or condense into an oily
>substance.  I suppose this substance can be refined to act like a diesel
>fuel.  It has many btu's in it too.
>
>AK
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>


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[Biofuel] biodiesel from plastic

[Andy Karpay]

If my memory serves me right, "biodiesel from plastic" is neither "bio"
nor "diesel"  The petroleum products from the feedstock (oil) in
plastics can be reclaimed by heating in an oxygen deficient atmosphere.
High enough temperatures will break the plastics down to a liquid and
then gas.  The gas is collected and has the approximate btu content of
methane (perhaps more).  Some will coalesce, or condense into an oily
substance.  I suppose this substance can be refined to act like a diesel
fuel.  It has many btu's in it too.

AK



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[Biofuel] 50/50 WVO mix in MB 300D

[Andy Karpay]

--

>___
>
>
>  



Using a heater is usually recommended.  If you are in a colder climate
(I am in Florida) some also use a separate small dino diesel tank for
starting.  This also requires a switch (tank A / tank B).  You should
switch tanks before shutting down to get the dino into the fuel system
for the next start.

That being said, if your WVO is gelling at too high a temperature
consider the source.  Does it have too much animal fat?  Is there water
in it?  
I am running a 300SD on pretty much 100% FILTERED WVO.  It is obtained
from a fairly upscale restaurant.  Mostly has been used for light frying
of vegetables.  Sometimes it is 'cloudy' and thick, sometimes it is
clear and golden in color.  I discard the cloudy oil, or put it into a
settling tank.  I do not use the bottom of this tank.

I expect to need to increase my dino input for winter's operation even
here.

Regards to Hakan and Keith - I am with you, brothers

_

I have a 300D Mercedes that runs fine on 50/50 mixture of diesel and 
virgin soybean oil. I am going to try
to convert it to run WVO. The  WVO  I  have  collected  gels  at  too  
high  a  temperature. I guess I will have
use a heater.

For parts, try www.germanstar.net


Bob




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Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members

[Mike Weaver]

I assure you that worms and viruses exist for linux.  In fact, the first 
big Internet worm was a unix (almost identical to Linux) worm.  Google 
Robert Morris.

Ray J wrote:

>I have heard of several viruses for Linux and apple stuff
>
>Ray J
>
>
>Rumen Slavov wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hi, Friends,
>> It seems to me all of you are intelligent persons,
>>so I wonder why you are using Microsoft bullsh...? As
>>far as it is well known, there is not such animal -
>>virus or worm or Trojan - for Linux! For some time now
>>there are several distribution of Live CD`s, which
>>work even in an empty hard like Knoppix and many
>>others! My OS is Slackware Linux 10.1 and I never had
>>any problems in the net. And it is free of charge. The
>>OppenOffice 1.1.4 office is well ahead of MS office -
>>it opens files no matter which application is involved
>>in the creation ( for example MS office XP can not
>>open document written with MS office 97). Everything
>>can be downloaded free from the net and the
>>distributions are equipped with more than 2000
>>applications! All you need is to compile idconfig (the
>>network connection) and you are free of problems. Me,
>>personally, I do not have antivirus - I don`t need it.
>> Try Linux!
>> Best - R. Slavov 
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
>>http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 
>>
>>
>>___
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>>
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>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>>
>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>
>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members

[Ray J]

I have heard of several viruses for Linux and apple stuff

Ray J


Rumen Slavov wrote:

> Hi, Friends,
>  It seems to me all of you are intelligent persons,
>so I wonder why you are using Microsoft bullsh...? As
>far as it is well known, there is not such animal -
>virus or worm or Trojan - for Linux! For some time now
>there are several distribution of Live CD`s, which
>work even in an empty hard like Knoppix and many
>others! My OS is Slackware Linux 10.1 and I never had
>any problems in the net. And it is free of charge. The
>OppenOffice 1.1.4 office is well ahead of MS office -
>it opens files no matter which application is involved
>in the creation ( for example MS office XP can not
>open document written with MS office 97). Everything
>can be downloaded free from the net and the
>distributions are equipped with more than 2000
>applications! All you need is to compile idconfig (the
>network connection) and you are free of problems. Me,
>personally, I do not have antivirus - I don`t need it.
>  Try Linux!
>  Best - R. Slavov 
>
>
>   
>
>Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
>http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 
> 
>
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>
>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers

[Keith Addison]

Hi Todd

>Dogonnit Keith,

Sorry about that.

>If the guy is going to behave in such a fashion, those who have to
>suffer it should at least be able to grill him about his generalities
>and stereotyping until he's forced to admit that there is a lot more to
>the bag of beans than he would care to recognize.

He won't admit it if he doesn't want to, no matter what you do, 
you've seen it yourself. Anyway, he's been here for two and a half 
years already, if he doesn't care to recognise it by now, then again 
he doesn't want to. (I guess that's his prerogative, but it's not his 
prerogative to dump it on us, nor on anybody.) Grilling him's 
unlikely to get anywhere, countering his views would show him up to 
everyone else but he still wouldn't see it. I think there's no 
shortage of such demonstrations in the list archives and I doubt 
doing it again this time would have added anything.

>Just throttling the guy lets him off too easy. Now it's he who gets to
>claim that his sensibilities were offended, further enforcing and
>propigating his peculiar beliefs elsewhere.
>
>Give 'em enough rope to hang themselves. If they're smart, they won't
>use it all.

Wouldn't it be true that if they were smart they wouldn't do it in 
the first place? He already hanged himself, he ignored everything and 
everyone, that's not smart.

>If they aren't, the world should at least be given the
>pleasure of watching them swing at the end of the yardarm of their own
>making.

:-) Do you mean in the sense that justice must be seen to be done or 
something like that? You might have a point. But really it just 
wastes time, it's a distraction, it clutters the place up, makes it 
more difficult for serious people to carry on a reasonable 
discussion. It's exactly that kind of crap that's truly "off-topic". 
It doesn't take much to drag a list down, as we all know, just one or 
two heedless people who want it all their own way. It's because this 
kept happening time and time again that people started yelling "NO 
TOPIC-COPS!" in the first place, years ago. We had it all out then, a 
few times, and that's when the rule was made. We formalised it a year 
ago, me and a group of list members, the whole list concurred, and 
that's that. Now it happens much less.

Has anything much changed, is there anything more to it now than the following?

> >What does it amount to anyway? "You're only allowed to
> >talk about what **I** want to talk about"? Usually it's either that
> >or a poorly disguised demand for censorship. Or a complaint that
> >there isn't any censorship, which looks like Duff's case. Not that
> >he'd call it censorship.

There's been a constant trickle of these people for nearly five 
years, and what most of them have in common is that no matter what 
you do, no matter what's proved or disproved and resides in a 
publicly accessible archives for all to see, if he wants to claim 
that it's his sensibilities that were offended and wants to propagate 
his beliefs elsewhere, HE'LL DO IT ANYWAY.

Another thing we've found is that it doesn't matter. If people are 
smart they'll check, ask a few questions, and quickly discover that 
he's full of it. If not, then the same applies - what does it matter?

Todd, I'm not just dismissing what you say, you make some good 
points, as ever. I'll surely keep them in mind. Too late this time 
though.

I should say I don't know what Duff will do or won't do, I'm not 
trying to hang all this on him personally, all I can say is how other 
people who've expressed the same views have behaved in the past.

Anyway it's not my concern. My often-stated position is that as 
list-owner my first obligation is to the list itself and the issues 
it represents, my second obligation is to the individual members, 
UNTIL they put the first obligation at risk. We do everything we can 
to make sure list members know what kind of community they've joined 
and how to get the best out of it, if they don't take any notice 
that's their problem. It's their loss too - it wouldn't be easy to 
persuade me that heedless and selfish people are any loss to the 
list. It isn't here for "outreach", it doesn't have a missionary 
role, it's only here to be useful to its members (many of whom use it 
as a source for their own outreach).

Hey, Todd, all this isn't aimed at you either, just restating policy.

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/
Biofuel list owner


>Todd Swearingen
>
>
>
>Keith Addison wrote:
>
> >>   Greetings to all, I am an avid alternative fuel
> >>advocate who is building a large home sized processor.
> >>I do hope you will read this and maybe it will help
> >>get us back on track!!All this talk of politics as far
> >>as I am concerned is for the most part  way out of
> >>line,and with a lot of misconceptions toward a
> >>political adjenda.We All need to get focused on what
> >>and where we are headed with the alternative energy
> >>issues,and stop talkin

Re: [Biofuel] Best van for WVO?

[Keith Addison]

>Your question ad Mel's response made me think, "How many brands are
>there of diesel engine vehicles?"
>So I googled  "Diesel vehicles"
>Found this first: http://www.gobiodiesel.com/diesel-vehicles.html
>Anybody want to add comments to a list like this?

Only this, which was made here:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_UScars.html
Diesels in the US

In other countries of course you can get any diesel you want.

Best wishes

Keith


>Bio-best wishes
>Brian Rodgers


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Re: [Biofuel] Bio from Plastics

[Keith Addison]

Hi Gus

>Hi There,
>
>Any body know how toe convert plastics to Biodiesel?

Can't, biodiesel's made from triglycerides. Some plastics are 
biodegradable and some are derived from biomass, but I think whatever 
you might turn them into it wouldn't be biodiesel, ie FAME or FAEE.

The Japanese process mentioned below was developed by a university 
professor over 10 years. It's an expensive, high-tech set-up, not for 
the likes of us in our backyards.

Best wishes

Keith


>Regards
>Gus
>Float to fuel plastic-diesel conversion
>By Rod Myer
>Energy Reporter
>August 29, 2005
>
>Page Tools
>Email to a friend Printer format
>AUSTRALIA'S nascent biofuels sector will take a step forward today with the
>launch of the $37.6 million float by Axiom Energy.
>
>Following the float, Axiom will take possession of a Laverton plant that
>produces 10 million litres of biodiesel a year from waste cooking oils and
>expand it to a capacity of 100 million litres by July. Axiom will also build
>two plants producing low sulphur diesel from waste plastics on the same
>site.
>
>Axiom has exclusive Australasian rights to a plastics-to-diesel process now
>in use only in Japan. It plans to roll out 13 further plants over the next
>five years as it develops a plastics supply, sorting and processing network
>with Richard Pratt's Visy group.
>
>Axiom managing director David Vinson said that of the $37.6 million to be
>raised in the float, $10.1 million would be used to upgrade the biodiesel
>plant and $17.6 million would go to developing the two plastics-to-diesel
>facilities.
>
>The Victor Smorgon Group, owners of the Laverton plant and a waste-oil
>collection network, will receive a $4 million cash payment and 15.1 million
>Axiom shares, making it a major shareholder with a 14.5 per cent stake. The
>rest of the cash will cover the costs of the issue and be used as working
>capital.
>
>Advertisement
>AdvertisementNinety-two-year-old entrepreneur Victor Smorgon developed the
>existing biodiesel plant at Laverton from what was once a conventional
>chemical factory.
>
>Mr Vinson said the biodiesel and plastics-to-diesel plants were expected to
>be commissioned next July. In 2007, Axiom will produce 70 million litres of
>biodiesel and 11.7 million litres of low-sulphur diesel from waste plastics.
>
>The plants will be cash flow positive from commissioning and in 2007 revenue
>of $70.1 million and a net profit of 10.1 million are expected.
>
>The company will pay out 40 per cent of profits as dividends.
>
>"Biodiesel is a renewable fuel capable of reducing greenhouse emissions by
>up to 92 per cent," Mr Vinson said.
>
>Axiom's biodiesel will be mixed with conventional diesel for sale.
>
>Diesel made from waste plastics would conform to the reduced sulphur levels
>to be mandated by the Federal Government in 2006 and would reduce levels of
>waste plastic going to landfills, he said.
>
>Low sulphur diesel produced from plastic wastes is tax free and biodiesel
>receives a government grant that offsets the current 38¢-a-litre diesel
>excise.
>
>This subsidy will be reduced to 19.1¢ between 2011 and 2015.
>
>To cement the joint venture in waste collection Visy will take a small
>interest in Axiom.
>
>Axiom will join a small number of Australian biofuels producers, including
>Babcock & Brown offshoot Environmental Infrastructure, which is building a
>150 million litre biodiesel plant in Darwin, and Manildra, which produces
>ethanol.
>
>Axiom's float will be underwritten by ABN Amro Morgans.
>
>The Federal Government has set a target of 350 million litres of ethanol and
>biodiesel to be used to power transport by 2010.


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Re: [Biofuel] Warning to List Members

[Keith Addison]

>Hi All,
>
>My firewall just blocked a worm sent to me under the guise of 
> Sounds>[EMAIL PROTECTED]  Sounds like we´ve got ourselves 
>a nasty troll. Take care. My firewall identifies it as W32/Lovgate 
>AC worm the attachment was a message pif.
>
>Tom Irwin

It's not a troll, it's just a new virus stealing people's email 
addresses from address books and emails on infected computers 
(MILLIONS of them) and using them as false sender's addresses, same 
as usual. I'm not infected, Journey to Forever isn't infected, and 
the list isn't infected either. Some people have reported receiving 
virus messages claiming to come from biofuel@sustainablelists.org, 
but they're also frauds, the list cannot distribute viruses.

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/
Biofuel list owner

 


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[Biofuel] Information needed

[Rumen Slavov]

Hi all,Hi Keith,
  Thanks for the advice, I had my doubts, but needed
assurance from an advanced biodieseler. As a mater of
fact I did some tests using conc. aque. cat. and had
problems washing it.
  As for my second question, the technology is simple,
but one has to know which solutions must be involved
in the paper or thin layer chromatography. Hopefully
someone with more scientific background will read the
message and tell as all how to make real direct tests
of the quality of the BD!
  Best to all!
  R. Slavov 




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Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. 
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[Biofuel] Warning to List Members

[Rumen Slavov]

 Hi, Friends,
  It seems to me all of you are intelligent persons,
so I wonder why you are using Microsoft bullsh...? As
far as it is well known, there is not such animal -
virus or worm or Trojan - for Linux! For some time now
there are several distribution of Live CD`s, which
work even in an empty hard like Knoppix and many
others! My OS is Slackware Linux 10.1 and I never had
any problems in the net. And it is free of charge. The
OppenOffice 1.1.4 office is well ahead of MS office -
it opens files no matter which application is involved
in the creation ( for example MS office XP can not
open document written with MS office 97). Everything
can be downloaded free from the net and the
distributions are equipped with more than 2000
applications! All you need is to compile idconfig (the
network connection) and you are free of problems. Me,
personally, I do not have antivirus - I don`t need it.
  Try Linux!
  Best - R. Slavov 




Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 
 

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Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?

[Peter Childers]

Thanks for confirming my inexperienced assumption that the MB Diesels are 
bulletproof. I think as long as the odometer is a true 165K Mi and not the 
second rotation then the engine should be ok. The climate control and door 
locks are minor at this stage as I will get it operating with BioDiesel 
first and worry about the creature comforts later. I would like higher 
mileage but if I want to step into BioDiesel I can't wait for the perfect 
car. Unfortunately I can't test the transmission before I buy but the listed 
value is anywhere from Zero to $250, so the initial money won't be too bad. 
A good manual should be about $150-$200. Thanks for all the input.
Peter
- Original Message - 
From: "S. Chapin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?


> Peter Childers wrote:
>
>> This is my first try at this list so excuse me if I don't get it yet.
>> I need to acquire a diesel vehicle before I start to experiment with
>> BioDiesel. I have looked at a Mercedes 300D that has not run in about
>> 4 years and has 165K miles on it. I think it is about a 1985. I
>> haven't talked to the owner yet. Can anyone give me some tips as to
>> whether this car would suit, from an affordability standpoint, using
>> for Biodiesel. I am very skilled mechanically so I can put the vehicle
>> into operation with my own labor, but I expect parts to be expensive.
>> I am not sure what I may need to do to it for Biodiesel. It is a five
>> cylinder but I'm not sure if it is a turbo or not (needs a second
>> look). I am also looking at (preferred) a Volkswagen Rabbit diesel.
>> That one is a long shot right now. Thanks for any help.
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>>___
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>>
>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
>>messages):
>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>>
>>
>>
> Peter,
>The 300d 123chassis is a fairly bullet proof car, if a bit heavy.
> The 85 would be the last year, or maybe 86, they were made. Weak points
> are the climate control device (chrysler) and door lock system. Some
> automatics had problems, but overall they are comfortable, strong if not
> blazingly fast transport. Many 240d(4cyl), 300d, 300d turbo and also gas
> versions were squeezed into the 123. If you can find a manual, mostly
> european cars, put it in.
> Mileage will be high 20s-mid 30s.
> The older 240d, and 220d were in the 115 (maybe 114 I get them mixed
> up) were lighter I think, and more US cars had the manual, some 5cyl
> cars are about but mostly the 240. I think a 220d is the record holder
> for over 1 million miles on the clock... I think. I had an older 190d
> with over 400k and still running strong on b100 with just a little
> sweating from fuel lines.
> Parts can be found, and not terribly expensive unless from the dealer.
> Try recycle shops and net parts places.
> Cheers,
> S.Chapin
>
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> 


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Re: [Biofuel] Best van for WVO?

[Brian Rodgers]

Your question ad Mel's response made me think, "How many brands are
there of diesel engine vehicles?"
So I googled  "Diesel vehicles"
Found this first: http://www.gobiodiesel.com/diesel-vehicles.html
Anybody want to add comments to a list like this?
Bio-best wishes
Brian Rodgers

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Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?

[Robert Ingram]

Peter I am on my 3rd Mercedes the mileage you 
mentioned should be minimal the typically go over 30mi easily. The biggest 
problem I have found with  the 123 seies ( which yours is) is rust in the 
floors and rocker panels caused by clogged drains . Before you buy the car lift 
the carpets and check then get under thecar and make sure I just replaced he 
floor of my beloved 83 300td . 
THEN if you buy the car change all the fuel filters 
its pretty easy drieve the car a few weeks and change the filters again . In my 
experience if these old diesels have been idle the fuel turns to crud. Dont be 
dissapointed if the car stalls initially my fuel lines eventually got cleaned 
out it may cost a few filters to get there and yoou will be driving a mercedes 
and getting pretty respectable mileage .As on any old car expect to replace 
batteries shocks tie rod s starters and such that is a given however when its 
akll tweakek youll have a great car thats heavy, safe , and reliable . My 82 was 
$32000 new according to the old sales inbvoice I found in the glove box . It 
cost me $2500 and I am up to about $600 by now . Hell I couldnet get a new 
Hyundai for that . 
I had an early Rabbit diesel (81) it got me 496 
mles on 10 gals on a trip from atlanta to Gainesville once but had to be the 
scaries trip of my life it was slow lightly built and I felt like a sparrow in a 
sea of Falcons out there I was relieved when it was stolen the cops promised to 
find it eventually and I told them " Dont threaten me " 
 End of rant oh yeah I also like old 6,2 litre 
suburbands and if I had the dough which I dont Iwould conider a Doge truck with 
thje big Cummins but my first choice would always be Mercedes 
 Good luck 
Robert

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Peter 
  Childers 
  To: BiofuelList 
  Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 3:59 
  PM
  Subject: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel 
  Suitable?
  
  This is my first try at this list so excuse me if 
  I don't get it yet. I need to acquire a diesel vehicle before I start to 
  experiment with BioDiesel. I have looked at a Mercedes 300D that has not run 
  in about 4 years and has 165K miles on it. I think it is about a 1985. I 
  haven't talked to the owner yet. Can anyone give me some tips as to whether 
  this car would suit, from an affordability standpoint, using for Biodiesel. I 
  am very skilled mechanically so I can put the vehicle into operation with my 
  own labor, but I expect parts to be expensive. I am not sure what I may need 
  to do to it for Biodiesel. It is a five cylinder but I'm not sure if it is a 
  turbo or not (needs a second look). I am also looking at (preferred) 
  a Volkswagen Rabbit diesel. That one is a long shot right now. Thanks for 
  any help.
  Peter
  
  

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[Biofuel] Bio from Plastics

[Gusfraga]

Hi There,

Any body know how toe convert plastics to Biodiesel?
Regards
Gus
Float to fuel plastic-diesel conversion
By Rod Myer
Energy Reporter
August 29, 2005

Page Tools
Email to a friend Printer format   
AUSTRALIA'S nascent biofuels sector will take a step forward today with the
launch of the $37.6 million float by Axiom Energy.

Following the float, Axiom will take possession of a Laverton plant that
produces 10 million litres of biodiesel a year from waste cooking oils and
expand it to a capacity of 100 million litres by July. Axiom will also build
two plants producing low sulphur diesel from waste plastics on the same
site.

Axiom has exclusive Australasian rights to a plastics-to-diesel process now
in use only in Japan. It plans to roll out 13 further plants over the next
five years as it develops a plastics supply, sorting and processing network
with Richard Pratt's Visy group.

Axiom managing director David Vinson said that of the $37.6 million to be
raised in the float, $10.1 million would be used to upgrade the biodiesel
plant and $17.6 million would go to developing the two plastics-to-diesel
facilities.

The Victor Smorgon Group, owners of the Laverton plant and a waste-oil
collection network, will receive a $4 million cash payment and 15.1 million
Axiom shares, making it a major shareholder with a 14.5 per cent stake. The
rest of the cash will cover the costs of the issue and be used as working
capital.

Advertisement
AdvertisementNinety-two-year-old entrepreneur Victor Smorgon developed the
existing biodiesel plant at Laverton from what was once a conventional
chemical factory.

Mr Vinson said the biodiesel and plastics-to-diesel plants were expected to
be commissioned next July. In 2007, Axiom will produce 70 million litres of
biodiesel and 11.7 million litres of low-sulphur diesel from waste plastics.

The plants will be cash flow positive from commissioning and in 2007 revenue
of $70.1 million and a net profit of 10.1 million are expected.

The company will pay out 40 per cent of profits as dividends.

"Biodiesel is a renewable fuel capable of reducing greenhouse emissions by
up to 92 per cent," Mr Vinson said.

Axiom's biodiesel will be mixed with conventional diesel for sale.

Diesel made from waste plastics would conform to the reduced sulphur levels
to be mandated by the Federal Government in 2006 and would reduce levels of
waste plastic going to landfills, he said.

Low sulphur diesel produced from plastic wastes is tax free and biodiesel
receives a government grant that offsets the current 38¢-a-litre diesel
excise.

This subsidy will be reduced to 19.1¢ between 2011 and 2015.

To cement the joint venture in waste collection Visy will take a small
interest in Axiom.

Axiom will join a small number of Australian biofuels producers, including
Babcock & Brown offshoot Environmental Infrastructure, which is building a
150 million litre biodiesel plant in Darwin, and Manildra, which produces
ethanol.

Axiom's float will be underwritten by ABN Amro Morgans.

The Federal Government has set a target of 350 million litres of ethanol and
biodiesel to be used to power transport by 2010.



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[Biofuel] Katrina's Effect on Petroleum Prices

[Stan]

I've been watching the progress of the storm. 175mph winds, going 
dead-on for New Orleans... And I can't help but feel that the oil 
industry will use this horrible disaster as a change to weasel 
themselves more money.

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Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?

[Peter Childers]

Thanks for your response Jan, but what is a 
"grinder"? Do you mean, maybe alternate word, the Filter? Are you aware of any 
rubber parts that might need subbing out as I understand that rubber and 
BioDiesel don't mix?
Peter

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jan Warnqvist 
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 10:49 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel 
  Suitable?
  
  Hello Peter.
  I can recommend all MB diesels as ideal 
  for biodiesel. I am into my third now, and there have been no problems 
  whatsoever. Just a small advice though:
  The grinder on the fuel line just before 
  the feed pump should be moved by longer hosing, in order to become easily 
  replaced from above, if necessary. In any other case you may have to get under 
  the car in order to replace it. 
  That ´s all. Good luck !
  Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB
   
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Peter 
Childers 
To: BiofuelList 
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 9:59 
PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel 
Suitable?

This is my first try at this list so excuse me 
if I don't get it yet. I need to acquire a diesel vehicle before I start to 
experiment with BioDiesel. I have looked at a Mercedes 300D that has not run 
in about 4 years and has 165K miles on it. I think it is about a 1985. I 
haven't talked to the owner yet. Can anyone give me some tips as to whether 
this car would suit, from an affordability standpoint, using for Biodiesel. 
I am very skilled mechanically so I can put the vehicle into operation with 
my own labor, but I expect parts to be expensive. I am not sure what I may 
need to do to it for Biodiesel. It is a five cylinder but I'm not sure if it 
is a turbo or not (needs a second look). I am also looking at 
(preferred) a Volkswagen Rabbit diesel. That one is a long shot right 
now. Thanks for any help.
Peter



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Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?

[Robert Lacy]

Peter Childers wrote:

> This is my first try at this list so excuse me if I don't get it yet. 
> I need to acquire a diesel vehicle before I start to experiment with 
> BioDiesel. I have looked at a Mercedes 300D that has not run in about 
> 4 years and has 165K miles on it. I think it is about a 1985. I 
> haven't talked to the owner yet. Can anyone give me some tips as to 
> whether this car would suit, from an affordability standpoint, using 
> for Biodiesel. I am very skilled mechanically so I can put the vehicle 
> into operation with my own labor, but I expect parts to be expensive. 
> I am not sure what I may need to do to it for Biodiesel. It is a five 
> cylinder but I'm not sure if it is a turbo or not (needs a second 
> look). I am also looking at (preferred) a Volkswagen Rabbit diesel. 
> That one is a long shot right now. Thanks for any help.
> Peter
>
>
>
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>  
>
I have a 300D Mercedes that runs fine on 50/50 mixture of diesel and 
virgin soybean oil. I am going to try
to convert it to run WVO. The  WVO  I  have  collected  gels  at  too  
high  a  temperature. I guess I will have
use a heater.

For parts, try www.germanstar.net.

Bob


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Re: [Biofuel] There derrivatives of Barrel Oil, have you wondered ?

[Marty Phee]

The reason you pay taxes on gas, diesel or biofuel is for road 
construction and repair.

Hence farmers and off road equipment do not pay taxes on the fuel they 
use.  That's why it's dyed and why you go to jail if found using it on 
road.  Tax evasion.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Have you ever wondered why all oil companies sell barrel oil at the same 
> price ? Scenario; Could it be that all the oil companies are owned by one 
> parent company? why not most other large companies do the same thing, they 
> will have a offshore corporation who will own an onshore LLC or LTD. The 
> company I work for does the same thing, the parent company is in Sweden where 
> foreign source profits are non-taxable, meanwhile it's workers onshore are 
> the ones paying taxes, certainly not them, but taxes are a different animal 
> for another discussion group. A couple other things I do not understand, one 
> ; if we have gained control of a large infrastucture oil producing country 
> why is the price of gasoline still going so high? Did they do this for that 
> objective ? Last thought.. As supposedly a free country why do we need a 
> license and pay a tax to sell something that comes naturally out of the 
> ground such as biofuel ? It seems that this may be a way to control the cost 
> of that too.Myk 
>HillNorth Carolina
>
>___
>
>
>  
>
>
>
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>  
>



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Re: [Biofuel] Question on Chevy S10´s

[Ray J]

2000 s-10  had a diesel engine in them??? 
 They had a 2.2l 4 cylinder 2.8l 6 cylinder and a 4.3l gas engine in 
them... i think u can run E85 hi ethanol gass in them but as far as i no 
chevy has not made a diesel s10 for many years .. they offered a 2.2l 
diesel in 1983-1986..

Ray J


Tom Irwin wrote:

> Hi All,
>  
> I was out on Friday looking at pick ups. I saw an 2000 S10 with a 2.8 
> liter engine. It had about 200,000 km on it. Any problems running BioD 
> in this vehicle? I suspect I´ll have to get the filters changed quite 
> often early on as the BioD will dissolve all the fossil crud. I didn´t 
> have a lot of time to see if it was a computerized injection system. 
> Any help would be appreciated.
>  
> Tom Irwin 
>
>
>
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>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers

[TarynToo]

As quoted here, what I find interesting about the sedition act is the 
very specific phrasing: ..utter...abusive language about the form of 
government of the United States, or the Constitution of the United 
States..."

In its first few lines the 1918 act forbids lying about the government 
and the armed forces, interfering with bond sales and recruiting, 
suborning the military, and implicitly excludes speaking up about 
criminal politicians, graft, corruption, election fraud, evil law, 
etc..., and expressly includes only bad-mouthing our "representative 
democracy" and our constitution. Compared to the patriot acts this 
starts out as a jewel of moderation and clarity.

When you read the entire act, a very different picture emerges

It was repealed in 1921, leaving the USA with most of the 
constitutional protections of free speech and privacy for more than 
eighty years, until the patriot acts tossed the Bill of Rights into the 
trash.

I'm sure this has been talked to death here already, but I want to 
point out the incredibly twisted logic that has gripped our government 
for the last four years:

Premise:
"The terrorists bomb us because they want to destroy our freedoms and 
democratic way of life"
Conclusion:
"Let's win against terrorism by passing laws destroying our freedoms"
"Let's protect democracy by handing our government over to 
multinational corporations."
"To protect our democracy, we must retain power at any cost, including 
the derailing of election safeguards and consistently lying about every 
aspect of our policies and intentions."
"We'll make the world safe from terrorism by invading sovereign nations 
and murdering and crippling huge numbers of Afghanis, Iraqis, and 
coalition soldiers."

If the premise were true, then we've handed the victory to the 
terrorists in the conclusions.

Of course the premise is absurd, half the world (9/10ths?) hates us 
because we've consistently used our power to advance an agenda of 
profit first, capitalism first, justice last.

Taryn


On Aug 28, 2005, at 6:03 AM, Hakan Falk wrote to mike who wrote to 
keith.

>
> Mike,
>
> I did not know of the sedition act of 1918:
> ...
> Hakan
>
> At 17:26 27/08/2005, you wrote:
>> Well done Keith.
>>
>> ...
>> "...shall willfully utter, print, write, or publish any disloyal,
>> profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the form of
>> government of the United States, or the Constitution of the United 
>> States..."
>>
>> When asked about people in US history who I admire most, I will
>> enthusiastically talk about those who have defended and sometimes
>> died defending freedom within it's borders. Coincidentally, few of
>> those people are politicians.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> My my. And I was just thinking you might be a man who'd do a bit of
>> ...


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[Biofuel] SPAM:(L1) Good day

[midori]

The message cannot be represented in 7-bit ASCII encoding and has been sent as 
a binary attachment.



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Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?

[S. Chapin]

Peter Childers wrote:

> This is my first try at this list so excuse me if I don't get it yet. 
> I need to acquire a diesel vehicle before I start to experiment with 
> BioDiesel. I have looked at a Mercedes 300D that has not run in about 
> 4 years and has 165K miles on it. I think it is about a 1985. I 
> haven't talked to the owner yet. Can anyone give me some tips as to 
> whether this car would suit, from an affordability standpoint, using 
> for Biodiesel. I am very skilled mechanically so I can put the vehicle 
> into operation with my own labor, but I expect parts to be expensive. 
> I am not sure what I may need to do to it for Biodiesel. It is a five 
> cylinder but I'm not sure if it is a turbo or not (needs a second 
> look). I am also looking at (preferred) a Volkswagen Rabbit diesel. 
> That one is a long shot right now. Thanks for any help.
> Peter
>
>
>
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>
>  
>
Peter,
The 300d 123chassis is a fairly bullet proof car, if a bit heavy. 
The 85 would be the last year, or maybe 86, they were made. Weak points 
are the climate control device (chrysler) and door lock system. Some 
automatics had problems, but overall they are comfortable, strong if not 
blazingly fast transport. Many 240d(4cyl), 300d, 300d turbo and also gas 
versions were squeezed into the 123. If you can find a manual, mostly 
european cars, put it in.
Mileage will be high 20s-mid 30s.
 The older 240d, and 220d were in the 115 (maybe 114 I get them mixed 
up) were lighter I think, and more US cars had the manual, some 5cyl 
cars are about but mostly the 240. I think a 220d is the record holder 
for over 1 million miles on the clock... I think. I had an older 190d 
with over 400k and still running strong on b100 with just a little 
sweating from fuel lines.
Parts can be found, and not terribly expensive unless from the dealer. 
Try recycle shops and net parts places.
Cheers,
S.Chapin

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[Biofuel] Query on MTBE

[subramanian D.V]

Hello Members,
MTBE – Methyl tertiary butyl ether - an oxygenate for blending with gasoline in U.S around 1990, acquired a bad reputation quickly because of its capacity for polluting the environment and affecting human beings. I understand that the groundwater in most parts of US has been polluted with MTBE to varying degrees; it was banned in certain States of US for mixing with gasoline.
It is banned in India too, as an oxygenate. Can any of you tell me what could be the possible use of MTBE other than as an oxygenate additive when a reputed oil refining and marketing company buys 10 tmt of MTBE from VITOL traders. I want to be doubly sure before raising this in the Indian Press.Thank you.
Regards,
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Re: [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers

[Appal Energy]

To keep the exercise "honest," as inevitably will all attorney's
involved [chuckle, chuckle, snot, smurf.:-], Robertson's words,
mindset and progressive thoughts need to be disected precisely as spoken.

Unfortunately for him, he all too quickly took the excercise from the
realm of "ruminating" to advocacy with:

"We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that
we exercise that ability. We don't need another $200 billion war to get
rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to
have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with."

His intial qualifier to that statement of:

"You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination,"

doesn't suffice as a component of a "rumination defense," in light of
his transitional words to advocacy with:

"We have the ability to take him out,"

followed by:

"and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability."

Mr. Robertson negotiated what initially was a very dangerous exercise in
reason and came out of the curve full throttle, rationalizing and
advocating, in front of initially millions, and now billions, of persons.

The author Dean is perfectly right in his final conclusion. But he
unfortunately doesn't deftly identify where Robertson's "switching of
tracks" and self-incrimination occurred.
..

On a personal note? As if anyone cares... :-)?

Differing ideologies don't need to initiate "fatwahs," when houses such
as Robertson's and Bush's are egocentrically disposed to implosion.

Fanatacism, albeit under any guise or becalmed expression, remains
fanatacism, no matter the flag.


Todd Swearingen



Doug Foskey wrote:

>Thanks: I find that illuminating to say the least. I personally hope that the 
>US does take this further, otherwise how can they insist foreign powers 
>prosecute their citizens for similar acts (including for instance statements 
>by Mullahs)
>
>regards Doug
>
>On Sunday 28 August 2005 8:26, S. Chapin wrote:
>  
>
>>Dear List,
>>A bit about the legal ramifications, though there will be none, of
>>Pat Robertson's statements concerning Chavez.
>>http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20050826.html  by
>>John Dean .
>>Cheers,
>>S. Chapin
>>
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>>
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>>messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>>
>>
>
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>
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>  
>



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Re: [Biofuel] Apology to ...

[Appal Energy]

Anyone who would pick snits over spelling, especially on the internet, 
would have a few more problems compared to the average bear.

No remarks necessary.

Todd Swearingen



Thomas Kelly wrote:

> From "Problems w. WVO" I wrote:
>  "Following directions from JtF, and with help from Keith, Todd 
> Swearington, and Marc A, I moved to 15L batches and this past week 
> finished a 130L processor and have run two batches. The first has been 
> washed and is drying, the other is in the wash phase."
>  
>I also asked the question  "Am I stupid or what?"
> ANSWER: Yes I am!!!
>  
>I apologize to Todd Swearingen for misspelling his last name.
>   
>
>
>
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>  
>

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[Biofuel] Medical was Re: Pat Robertson's business affiliation with Hugo Chavez

[Garth & Kim Travis]

Greetings,
And who has none?  Even in the US, there is medical available.  If there 
isn't, please explain to me how people who have just crossed the Rio Grande 
are in the hospitals on the US side?

There is no problem getting into see the doctor, but getting the surgery is 
a different tale.  There are waiting lists for everything in the Alberta 
Medical system.  One must be exact on this list, so I must mention that 
there is no such thing as a Canadian medical system, since each province is 
different and runs their own system.

Bright Blessings,
Kim


At 10:38 PM 8/27/2005, you wrote:
>Good point, but:
>1.  What if you don't have or can't get insurance?
>2.  Last time I checked, it is not illegal to see a doctor in Canada and
>simply pay for it.  It would be silly to wait until you get cancer.
>Canadians have alternatives too.
>3.  I would hazard that Canadian medicine, warts and all, is better than
>none.
>
>-Mike
>
>Garth & Kim Travis wrote:
>
> >Greetings,
> >I have lived under Canada's medical and the US system, and had cancer in
> >both.  I will take the US system any day of the week.  Sorry, but sitting
> >on a waiting list waiting to have a pre-cancerous mass removed until it
> >turns into cancer is not my idea of good medicine.  Ask any US resident
> >what they think of medicaid, and you get the same answer, surprise, it is
> >the same system with the same faults.  The US has socialized medicine,
> >thankfully, they also have alternatives to it.
> >Bright Blessings,
> >Kim
> >
> >At 09:41 PM 8/27/2005, you wrote:
> >
> >
> >>  If Medicare and Medicade is so popular,
> >>and efficient, then why not expand it?
> >>
> >>-Mike
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >___
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> >
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> >
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> messages):
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> >
> >
>
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel Suitable?

[Jan Warnqvist]

Hello Peter.
I can recommend all MB diesels as ideal 
for biodiesel. I am into my third now, and there have been no problems 
whatsoever. Just a small advice though:
The grinder on the fuel line just before 
the feed pump should be moved by longer hosing, in order to become easily 
replaced from above, if necessary. In any other case you may have to get under 
the car in order to replace it. 
That ´s all. Good luck !
Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
+ 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Peter 
  Childers 
  To: BiofuelList 
  Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 9:59 
  PM
  Subject: [Biofuel] Mercedes Diesel 
  Suitable?
  
  This is my first try at this list so excuse me if 
  I don't get it yet. I need to acquire a diesel vehicle before I start to 
  experiment with BioDiesel. I have looked at a Mercedes 300D that has not run 
  in about 4 years and has 165K miles on it. I think it is about a 1985. I 
  haven't talked to the owner yet. Can anyone give me some tips as to whether 
  this car would suit, from an affordability standpoint, using for Biodiesel. I 
  am very skilled mechanically so I can put the vehicle into operation with my 
  own labor, but I expect parts to be expensive. I am not sure what I may need 
  to do to it for Biodiesel. It is a five cylinder but I'm not sure if it is a 
  turbo or not (needs a second look). I am also looking at (preferred) 
  a Volkswagen Rabbit diesel. That one is a long shot right now. Thanks for 
  any help.
  Peter
  
  

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[Biofuel] Warning to List Members

[Tom Irwin]

Hi All,
 
My firewall just blocked a worm sent to me under the guise of [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Sounds like we´ve got ourselves a nasty troll. Take care. My firewall identifies it as W32/Lovgate AC worm the attachment was a message pif. 
 
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[Biofuel] Information needed

[Keith Addison]

Hello Rumen

>Rumen Slavov [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sun Aug 28 03:59:34 EDT 2005
>
> Hi Guys,
>  I would like to ask again about two things:
> Have you any opinion about "concentrated aqueous
>catalyst
>(www.biodieselgear.com/documentation/AqueousCatalyst.pdf)?

:-)

Everybody's been talking about using the list archives, why didn't 
you give it a try?

Anyway. It adds water to a reaction that is already sensitive to 
water. You have to remove the water from the oil and use 99% plus 
methanol and anhydrous lye, so why go and put more water back in 
again? It's just an extra variable, and without any apparent benefit. 
The results have been put to GC tests and found wanting. The man who 
"invented" it (it was first presented here) admits he doesn't use it 
in test batches because of this variable. It makes sense to minimise 
variables, not add new ones, especially if you're a novice.

It's not safer as it's claimed to be, it involves making two toxic 
mixtures instead of just one, and its proponents seem to use open 
containers (and many of the same people often say you can use phenol 
red for titration, which doesn't work, or that titration isn't 
necessary, and so on).

These are some previous messages in the archives, they include links 
to water-free, reliable, quick and safe ways to do what the 
"concentrated aqueous catalyst" claims to do but doesn't.

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg24897.html
Re: [biofuel] Need clearification and advice

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg31293.html
Re: [biofuel] First Batch

http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg33539.html
Re: [biofuel] Methanol and Sodium Hydroxide efficiant mixing method

>  Can anyone explain me how could I make paper
>chromatography test of the BD(the kind of solutions
>and how to read the results)?

I know it's been done but I don't know how. Paper and/or TFC, thin 
film chromatography. But they're just words to me.

Best wishes

Keith


>   Best regards
>R.S.


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Re: [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers

[Keith Addison]

Hello Clif

>Hello Keith,
>As I am fairly new to this list I should have done some achive research
>before posting. My bad .
>You obviously have spent quite some time arguing your opinion on these
>political issues. I have not. I spoke from my convictions not from my
>expertise.

Sorry Clif, it's a slimy tactic to say you only lost an argument 
because your opponent is better at arguing. The reason you lost is 
that you were indeed arguing from your convictions, and, as many 
people said, those convictions do not stand up to the test of 
reality. Neither did your arguments, and that's because they're 
specious, NOT because you were out-argued.

>There  are  folks  out there, and I know some of them, who limit their
>input  to sources which reflect only their particular mindset and they
>reject  information  from other sources as "false" or "biased" whether
>or  not that is indeed true.  They want the world to be a mirror image
>of  their  cherished beliefs whether or not the beliefs are true, good
>or wise.  That makes no sense.
- Gustl, yesterday.

"One of the fundamental findings of cognitive science is that people 
think in terms of frames and metaphors - conceptual structures. The 
frames are in the synapses of our brains - physically present in the 
form of neural circuitry. When the facts don't fit the frames, the 
frames are kept and the facts ignored." -- George Lakoff

You encounter facts, you argue, you lose, but you deny the facts 
anyway and defend your cherished notions. That doesn't stop you 
calling other people liars though, and failing to prove it. You'll 
keep right on doing it if we let you, but we won't let you. We've 
seen it all before here, many times, and we don't welcome it. You 
have to be honest.

> As far as /trolling/ I must admit I am unfamiliar with this term. I
>assume it has to do with a certain type of behavior on mailing lists or
>in chat rooms. Since I have very little experience in either arena I
>will do my best not to do this in the future.

I don't believe you. You don't need a degree in it to be a troll, you 
know quite well what that "certain type of behavior" entails.

>I may not be the brightest bulb in the box but I do learn.

We see no evidence of that, what we see is denial. We see denial too 
in your selective responses to the replies you receive. You can't 
ignore people here anymore than you can ignore the facts.

>From now on I
>will allow these political issues and religious issues to be discussed
>here without my input.

That's nice of you! LOL! Will you allow us to discuss biofuels issues 
too? Like this for instance?

>   Some of these issues may seem tangential at first.  Close
>examination, however, will reveal how energy use, foreign policy,
>religious perspective, racism and many other "isms" blend to create
>the overall milieu in which the topic of biofuels exist.  We who have
>been here for any length of time agree by consensus that which is
>deserving of discussion and that which is not.  It's remarkably self
>regulating, for the most part.
- Robert

>I  believe  I have said this before but I believe that the information
>we garner and through which we sift is biofuel for the mind.  Politics
>may  be  and  often  is  heavily discussed but through this we gain an
>understanding of others who may be vastly different from ourselves and
>we  come  to  learn that although there are many differences we have a
>common  thread  running  through  this  which is that we wish good for
>ourselves  and  no  harm  to  others.  What gets in the way of this is
>partisanship  whether  it is religious, political, economic, racial or
>whatever  else.   Through these discussions we get closer to the truth
>of things and become closer to being an organic whole.
- Gustl

>With my somewhat limited verbal sparring skills
>and my deep seated convictions I would simply get in the way of
>/meaningful /discussions. Is this "penitent" enough for you ?

Drop the BS Clif, it doesn't work.

>The unanimously vehement reaction to  my comments speaks volumes. Thanks
>for the education. It is all your's. I don't mind a good fight but  why
>bother .

So Clif retires from the field unscathed, both honour and cherished 
notions intact. You believe it if you like Clif, the other folks here 
know different.

>I will limit my discussions to areas I know even less about, namely
>building my first biodiesel processor.

WE will limit your discussions Clif, if necessary. Let me refer you 
once again to this:

List rules:
http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/200 
5-May/07.html
Or:
http://snipurl.com/gi45

Step out of line again and you're gone.

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/
Biofuel list owner



>Have at it.
>
>Signing off from this thread and any other remotely related threads.
>
>With warm (occassionally very warm) regards,
>Clif
>
>
>Keith Addison wrote:
>
> >Hello Clif
> >
> >
> >
> >>Keith 

Re: [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers

[Hakan Falk]

Mike,

I did not know of the sedition act of 1918:
"...shall willfully utter, print, write, or publish any disloyal, 
profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the form of government
of the United States, or the Constitution of the United States..."

This make any talk about "freedom of speech" a joke.

The unravelling of the lack of democracy, has never been so obvious 
as the execution and results from the two last elections and the way 
the Iraqi war has been pursued. I still think that "Corprocracy" is a 
better word for the governing method of US.

It seems that we have to change the phrase "the nation of the free" 
to "the nation of the blind".

To condition the cohabitation of a men and a women on if they are 
married or not? Do they have to be married to each other, or just 
married? Is it enough if only one of them is married? This info I 
keep as one of the most bizarre I have. LOL

Hakan

At 17:26 27/08/2005, you wrote:
>Well done Keith.
>
>So here we are again, stating the obvious, setting the record 
>straight about a war which violates international laws (which the US 
>helped write, then signed onto) related to justification for war, 
>engagement, torture, detainment and the fabrication of the term 
>"enemy combatant" which has effectively stripped people of the most 
>basic human rights and left the accuser to decide guilt and length 
>of detainment.
>
>It's frightening how the rhetoric says that the US is "the land of 
>the free" and that it is a model for democracy which should be 
>imposed on other countries considering the fact that there are 4000 
>federal laws on the books and some of them, along with many state 
>laws dictate what is permissible (or not) in your personal life. For 
>example, in at least two states, it's ILLEGAL for a male and female 
>to cohabitate unless they are married. In my opinion, you can 
>measure how close a country is to being a police state by the number 
>of laws it has.
>
>I say all this without even getting started on the constitutional 
>violations contained in the USA Patriot act (as many of us are 
>already aware and have already discussed). Then there is my personal 
>favorite, the sedition act of 1918:
>
>"...shall willfully utter, print, write, or publish any disloyal, 
>profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the form of 
>government of the United States, or the Constitution of the United States..."
>
>When asked about people in US history who I admire most, I will 
>enthusiastically talk about those who have defended and sometimes 
>died defending freedom within it's borders. Coincidentally, few of 
>those people are politicians.
>
>Mike
>
>Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>My my. And I was just thinking you might be a man who'd do a bit of
>checking before he shot his foot off. Again. I do rather wonder what
>you mean when you say "right here in America" when actually where you
>are right now is right here on the global Internet, on a global
>discussion group with a global membership that includes many Muslims
>living in Muslim countries, who are probably more aware than you are
>of calls from your country - calls and deeds done - to kill them and
>their leaders. But that doesn't count, does it? It does here. If you
>want outrage over the coverage of the war in Iraq you'll find it
>aplenty, but you won't like it - it's outrage at the unquestioning,
>knee-jerk coverage your so-called "liberal" press (ROFL!!!) gave to
>the pack of blatant lies that led unfailingly to everything and
>everybody getting torn to pi! eces in Iraq (as most of us predicted at
>the time), including your precious military, and every single promise
>broken.
>
> >Wow and to think that I was going to use this list only to figure out
> >how to titrate WVO correctly.
> >At the risk at attracting perhaps merited flames ..
> >Where is the outrage at the coverage of the war in Iraq ?
> >Have you heard one positive story on NPR or anywhere else ?
> >Where is the outrage at the fine work Michael Moore and numerous others
> >are doing at peddling lies ?
> >Where is the outrage when fine mothers, sisters, sons and fathers who
> >are proud of the service their sons and daughters are offering in the
> >Armed Services are not given any voice and one heartbroken mother is
> >given weeks of press coverage because she is against the war in Irag ?
> >And finally a point that may need some attention by the "Men of God"
> >judicatory committee on this list :
>
>What ex! actly do you mean by that?
>
> >Where is the outrage at allowing Muslim clerics right here in America to
> >daily call for the UTTER destruction of not only Americans who believe
> >that Allah may not be the way, but also any other infidels?
> >
> >All I'm saying is that I for one feel compelled to be very conscious of
> >my own "blind spots" as I am chief among those who can stand only by
> >grace .
> >
> >Just a thought to further take this list into a land far away from
> >renewable energy sourc

[Biofuel] Information needed

[Rumen Slavov]

 Hi Guys,
  I would like to ask again about two things:
 Have you any opinion about “concentrated aqueous
catalyst
(www.biodieselgear.com/documentation/AqueousCatalyst.pdf)?
  Can anyone explain me how could I make paper
chromatography test of the BD(the kind of solutions
and how to read the results)?
   Best regards
R.S.




Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs 
 

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Re: [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers

[Doug Foskey]

Cliff,
  we are all here to discuss & learn. Do not be afraid to state a view that is 
not widely held. It is only by airing these views that we can either be 
convinced by you, or you by us to lead a better, more peaceful existence.

regards Doug (an Aussie...)

On Sunday 28 August 2005 2:17, Clif Caldwell wrote:
> Hello Keith,
> As I am fairly new to this list I should have done some achive research
> before posting. My bad .
> You obviously have spent quite some time arguing your opinion on these
> political issues. I have not. I spoke from my convictions not from my
> expertise.
>
>  As far as /trolling/ I must admit I am unfamiliar with this term. I
> assume it has to do with a certain type of behavior on mailing lists or
> in chat rooms. Since I have very little experience in either arena I
> will do my best not to do this in the future.
>
> I may not be the brightest bulb in the box but I do learn. From now on I
> will allow these political issues and religious issues to be discussed
> here without my input. With my somewhat limited verbal sparring skills
> and my deep seated convictions I would simply get in the way of
> /meaningful /discussions. Is this "penitent" enough for you ?
>
> The unanimously vehement reaction to  my comments speaks volumes. Thanks
> for the education. It is all your's. I don't mind a good fight but  why
> bother .
>
> I will limit my discussions to areas I know even less about, namely
> building my first biodiesel processor.
>
> Have at it.
>
> Signing off from this thread and any other remotely related threads.
>
> With warm (occassionally very warm) regards,
> Clif
>
> Keith Addison wrote:
> >Hello Clif
> >
> >>Keith Addison wrote:
> >>>My my. And I was just thinking you might be a man who'd do a bit of
> >>>checking before he shot his foot off. Again. I do rather wonder what
> >>>you mean when you say "right here in America" when actually where you
> >>>are right now is right here on the global Internet, on a global
> >>>discussion group with a global membership that includes many Muslims
> >>>living in Muslim countries, who are probably more aware than you are
> >>>of calls from your country - calls and deeds done - to kill them and
> >>>their leaders. But that doesn't count, does it? It does here. If you
> >>>want outrage over the coverage of the war in Iraq you'll find it
> >>>aplenty, but you won't like it - it's outrage at the unquestioning,
> >>>knee-jerk coverage your so-called "liberal" press (ROFL!!!) gave to
> >>>the pack of blatant lies that led unfailingly to everything and
> >>>everybody getting torn to pieces in Iraq (as most of us predicted at
> >>>the time), including your precious military, and every single promise
> >>>broken.
> >>
> >>Guilty as accused concerning not backing up my statements. I have
> >>remedied this in another post.
> >
> >Well, you haven't given Fred any work, each and every one of your
> >refs has been debunked many times before and it's all in the archives.
> >
> >"In Iraq, we're not fighting for ourselves," said Bean, from his home
> >base in Fort Campbell, Ky. "We're over there fighting so the Iraqis
> >can have their own Fourth of July."
> >
> >LOL! Yeah, it's not funny, but black humour's a survival trait these days.
> >
> >>And guilty as accused as writing from a
> >>decidingly US perspective. I have traveled extensively including
> >>performing tsunami relief (as a civilian paying my own way) in Banda
> >>Aceh, Indonesia (90+ % Isalmic). Please understand that I have cried
> >>with, struggled with and even prayed with Muslims and Christians all
> >>over the world.  (I have carried out humanitarian efforts in Central and
> >>South America and Jordan also.) Unfortunately I was not as sensitive as
> >>I should have been to all the readers of this list.
> >>
> >>I am a former officer in the USAF
> >
> >So you keep saying.
> >
> >>so perhaps I do have a fondness for
> >>the fine, exceedingly capable and patriotic  men and women serving to
> >>protect and defend a country
> >
> >Americans are inclined to be VERY careful about seeming to criticise
> >that, most will pay it due obeisance. But most people here are not
> >Americans and can be expected to treat it as the false sacred cow
> >that it is. Again, please see the archives, we've had Purple
> >Heart-winning US vets arguing with each here before this. So you
> >might as well stop saying it, it doesn't secure you any high ground.
> >
> >>I personally feel is a  pretty good place
> >>to live.
> >>
> >>Perhaps I am living under some delusions and if that is the
> >>case then I'm sure someone will try to correct the errors of my ways.
> >>
> >>Thanks for the input. I will give it some thought.
> >>
> >>Just a guy sorting things out,
> >
> >I wonder. I think you're trolling. You slip in and lay some
> >flame-bait, it duly raises noise and distraction, then you're all
> >penitent about it, and then you do it again, twice so far. I'm not
> >convinced by your penitence this t

Re: [Biofuel] How to make ehtanol, second try.......

[Keith Addison]

>You are right.
>I just got overwhelmed with the amount of e-mails received,

Not so easy to handle a mailing list with hotmail, even a 
medium-volume list like this one. If you had a real email account you 
could do this sort of thing:
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg21651.html
Or:
http://snipurl.com/h9oy

Anyway you couldn't have been overwhelmed yet by that stage, the 
Welcome message was the first message you received when you joined, 
and the url of the list homepage is at the top of every message you 
receive from the list. It's here:
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Or:
http://snipurl.com/h9p0

>thus unable to
>identify the proper ones.

Sorry to ask, but have you identified them yet? Let me put them right 
up here at the top:

There are resources, FAQs, how-to's, full recipes and an online 
Biofuels Library at the Journey to Forever website, the premier 
source of small-scale biofuels information:

Biofuels
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

Biodiesel
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html

Biodiesel - "Where do I start?"
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start

Straight vegetable oil (SVO)
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html

Ethanol
http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol.html

Wood gas
http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html#woodgas

Biofuels Library
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html

Messages to the list can be read on the Web here:
http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/

Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
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-

There are two complete online manuals on making your own ethanol, 
using fruit is covered, there are designs for stills, how-to's, 
forums, everything you need.

There's also a method of how to make ethanol from sawdust.

Whether methanol can or cannot be produced from wood short of a major 
industrial investment has been recently discussed at the list, you'll 
find the discussion in the list archives. It's also been discussed 
many times previously. Using wood as a heating source has also been 
discussed many times and in many ways, and there are good resources 
on it at the Journey to Forever website.

Best wishes

Keith


>Thank you!
>- Original Message -
>From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 1:13 AM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How to make ehtanol, second try...
>
>
> > Hello Wireless Data Transfer
> >
> > >Hello there! This is the second time I post this question, since
> > >nobody responded to the first time, please advice!
> > >I own a fairly big piece of land, in which I grow oranges, and a lot of
>them
> > >fall from the trees and rot on the ground.
> > >I have been told that making ethanol from those rotting oranges can be
>quite
> > >simple.
> > >I can also have access to an almost unlimited supply of wood chips and
> > >sawdust from a nearby lumber yard, from which I read Methanol can be
> > >obtained, or those can be turned on fire to run the furnaces to make
> > >the Ethanol, right?
> > >The main use I will have for either the Ethanol or the Methanol is to
>fuel
> > >a small fleet of cars that I use for traveling back and forth to where
>the
> > >oranges are.The 4 cars combined consume about 50~60 gallons of fuel per
> > >month, each. I have found in various places on the Web that Brazil has
>many
> > >vehicles that come from the factory ready to use alcohol as the fuel, but
> > >nobody seems to have many details of the systems.
> > >I'm looking forward for any suggestions to learn how to produce my
> > >own fuel at reduced costs, in order to make my operation as
> > >self-sustainable as possible.
> > >Thank you in advance!
> >
> > Not in advance, in arrears. When you came to the list you were
> > pointed at the list resources, listed in the Welcome message and at
> > the list homepage, it says this:
> >
> > There are resources, FAQs, how-to's, full recipes and an online
> > Biofuels Library at the Journey to Forever website, the premier
> > source of small-scale biofuels information:
> >
> > Biofuels
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> >
> > Biodiesel
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html
> >
> > Biodiesel - "Where do I start?"
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#start
> >
> > Straight vegetable oil (SVO)
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html
> >
> > Ethanol
> > http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol.html
> >
> > Wood gas
> > http://journeytoforever.org/at_woodfire.html#woodgas
> >
> > Biofuels Library
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library.html
> >
> > Messages to the list can be read on the Web here:
> > http://sustainablelists.org/pipermail/biofuel_sustainablelists.org/
> >
> > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
>messages):
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> 

[Biofuel] PLEASE READ - Re: hi

[Keith Addison]

That was not from me, as usual it's a virus using a false address - 
if you go on the Internet, your address gets hijacked by viruses, 
it's happened to all of us by now.

NOTE that it failed - the mailing list computer stripped off the 
virus attachment BEFORE sending the empty email message on to the 
list members.

That's why the list doesn't accept attachments, it's an essential 
anti-virus measure.

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/
Biofuel list owner

 


>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 11:07:04 -0700
>
>Mail  failed.  For further assistance, please contact!
>
>
>
>**
>**
>
>WARNING: WinProxy has detected a virus in file
>attached to this e-mail message!
>
>The attachment has been automatically removed to
>protect your network.
>
>WinProxy Administrator: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>08/28/05 11:01:49 WinProxy (Version 5.1 R1c (5.0.50.8)) - 
>http://www.Ositis.com/
>Antivirus Vendor: Panda Software
>Scan Engine Version: 4.7.0.2_4.1.6.408
>Pattern File Version: 3.103390 (Timestamp: 2005/08/27 08:09:35)
>
>Machine name: SERVER2005
>Machine IP address: 192.168.1.100
>Server: 70.85.95.186
>Client: 152.96.71.25
>Protocol: SMTP
>
>Virus: "W32/Lovgate.AC.worm" found!
>Attachment: document.zip
>
>**
>**


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[Biofuel] SPAM:(L1) hello

[keith]

The message contains Unicode characters and has been sent as a binary 
attachment.



**
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WARNING: WinProxy has detected a virus in file
attached to this e-mail message!

The attachment has been automatically removed to
protect your network.

WinProxy Administrator: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

08/28/05 12:38:56 
WinProxy (Version 5.1 R1c (5.0.50.8)) - http://www.Ositis.com/

Antivirus Vendor: Panda Software
Scan Engine Version: 4.7.0.2_4.1.6.408
Pattern File Version: 3.103390 (Timestamp: 2005/08/27 08:09:35)

Machine name: SERVER2005
Machine IP address: 192.168.1.100
Server: 70.85.95.186
Client: 152.96.71.25
Protocol: SMTP

Virus: "W32/Lovgate.AC.worm" found!
Attachment: body.scr

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Re: [Biofuel] Pat Robertson's business affiliation with Hugo Chavez

[TarynToo]

On Aug 27, 2005, at 10:41 PM, Mike Weaver wrote:

> Oh, I don't mind a few shots - been known to dish them out myself!  I
> guess I would turn the tables and
> ask if you ever heard of an actual communist system?  I can't think of
> one.  Almost all had major built in flaws,
> ranging from phony economic figures to police state governments.  I've
> never heard of a state actually withering away ;-)
> Italy, Russia, the Soviet bloc.
>

Hi Mike,

I think that communism may only work well with very small populations, 
'tribe sized',  say ... less than a thousand citizen/members. The best 
example I know is the Israeli communes, where each formed a single 
economic unit in the larger democractic-capitalistic state. The Israeli 
communes, of which my extended family has intimate knowledge, were 
essentially worker-owned corporations, with all participants drawing 
almost identical wages, and enjoying the same standard of living. In 
the successful, well-organized communes, they often incorporated 
farming, craft and art work, and light industries, to realize a high 
standard of living and significant profits.

Even this example has a dark underbelly: (besides palestine) the third 
generation is leaving the communes to work in the cities. The communes 
must recruit idealistic immigrants or fold from labor shortages.

I'm of an age to have participated in and observed the communal efforts 
of the 60s and 70s here in the US. We were often spoiled, ill-prepared 
city dwellers, with little understanding of soil qualities, land 
management, husbandry, or work ethic. But even here, against a great 
deal of government persecution, some efforts did succeed, but usually 
only for a few generations.


> OTOH, I can't say I can think of a pure and functional
> democractic-capitalistic state either.  Certainly not here or in 
> Europe.
> As I said earlier, I think the best bet is a robust economy with some
> socialistic (There!  I said it!) notions thrown in.
> As the large countries of Eastern Europe are (and have) learned, you
> can't just conjure an economy.  You have to have money
> to make the goodies flow.  Too high a tax rate, and most of the
> businesses leave for greener pastures.  Look at the film industry in 
> the UK.
> Up until Thatcher (and no, I am NOT a big fan) came in, they country
> taxed them into...the US!  Now of course, our own companies are fleeing
> to Canada
> because they have *gasp* socialised medicine.
>
> I will never understand why the US is so anti socialised medicine.
> Jeez, even in the Red state of Virginia we have socialized schools,
> trash pickup, water
> why not health care?  Beats me.  If Medicare and Medicade is so 
> popular,
> and efficient, then why not expand it?

Just another example of our wealthy masters' propaganda machinery 
persuading the majority to vote against their own interests.  I can't 
speak for medicaid, run by the states individually, but I spent a few 
years as my grandmother's guardian, navigating social security and 
medicare for her.

Let me assure you that the neocon propaganda against social security 
and medicare is purest BS. They are incredibly well run, far better 
than any private insurance company I've ever dealt with. The 
administration overhead for both systems is much less than similar 
private systems. While doctors often bitch about the low reimbursement 
rates from medicare, they will quickly admit that the system is very 
competent. (Especially those doctors imprisoned for medicare fraud.)

Medicare works almost perfectly, it would be an excellent model for a 
nationalized health plan. In fact, the only problems with medicare are 
those being caused by the new drug bill recently passed by the 
republican congress, which was a huge corporate welfare gift to drug 
manufacturers, at the expense of consumers and taxpayers.

Taryn
ornae.com

>
> -Mike
>
> TarynToo wrote:
>
>> It's impossible to say "Communism would've collapsed even w/o our
>> "help"", since every state that has attempted communism, with few
>> exceptions, has been destroyed by the U.S.A. and its allies using some
>> combination of economic warfare, bribery and  corruption, economic and
>> military support of 'counter-revolutionaries', and support of handy
>> fascist states.
>> .and other comments...


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Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots

[Doug Foskey]

Nick,
  how these work is for 1/2 the magnets to turn over, so cancelling the field 
when the lever is operated. When closed, all the fields are lined up & the 
magnetic force is strong...

regards doug

On Sunday 28 August 2005 9:01, Nick & Jenny wrote:
> OK I may have come in late on this but you can cancel a permenant magnetic
> field, look up magnetic vise or chuck. They are used on milling machines to
> secure the workpiece. The magnets are "swiched off" using a lever. No power
> or external device required.
>
> Regards
> Nick
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of bob allen
> Sent: Thursday, 25 August 2005 1:18 AM
> To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots
>
>
> ah yes, magnets once again -hold on to your wallet
>
> Wes Moore wrote:
> > I received the following a few days ago.  I suspect there may be folks
> > on this list who would find this interesting.  The source is from
> > Anthony Craddock who organizes info for Dr Tom Bearden .   the page that
> > is linked at the bottom also has Tom Bearden’s website linked.
> >
> > Wes
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Try finding the original magnetic astronauts boots that were developed
> > by NASA. The original boots were excellent. For the acceptance tests, an
> > engineer clad as an astronaut walked across the bottom of a steel beam
> > in a high bay research area, upside down against the pull of Earth's
> > gravity. He /stepped/ as he walked, putting his foot "down" and then
> > picking it "up".
> >
> > There is no problem in finding magnets strong enough to hold the
> > astronaut firmly in such an upside position. The problem with simple
> > magnetic boots using such strong magnets is that, once the foot is
> > planted, unless he is King Kong himself, the astronaut cannot pick up
> > the foot again.
> >
> > However, the Radus boots completely solved that problem. If the
> > permanent magnet fields are switched off
>
> uh, how do you switch off a permanent magnet?  ans. you don't and
> everything following is therefore BS
>
> for that foot that the
>
> > astronaut wishes to lift, he can lift it easily and take another step.
> > Then if the fields are switched on again as he places his foot down,
> > this switching of the fields allows him to walk in a manner resembling
> > normal walking, though a little slower.
> >
> > To do that switching by normal "battery and coils" would be
> > prohibitively bulky and heavy ­ and awkward to say the least.
> >
> > With the Radus boots, the astronaut could pick up his foot by simply
> > switching off the permanent magnetic fields easily. They switched on
> > again when he placed the foot down. And he did not have to carry a huge
> > battery around with him, to furnish enormous current to do that.
> >
> > Well, it doesn't take a genius to see that, when you can switch a
> > permanent magnet's fields easily, and the magnet also has a built-in
> > memory as did the Radus magnets, then with a little ingenuity in
> > switching one could use such switchable magnets to produce a
> > self-switching, self-powered permanent magnet motor.
>
> oooh, free energy
>
>
>   The magnet, being a
>
> > permanent dipole, is already a particular kind of "free energy
> > generator", since it continuously gates magnetic energy
>
> no such thing as magnetic energy
>
>   directly from
>
> > the vacuum due to its asymmetry in the energetic vacuum flux.
> >
> >>From the energy barons' viewpoint, those Radus magnets and Radus boots
> >> had
>
> to
>
> > go, and go quickly. And go they did.
>
> nonsense
>
> > So NASA then developed the present "shuffler" kind of magnetic boots
> > where the astronaut can't pull his boot loose from the surface, but must
> > "scoot" his feet along in a sliding and painfully awkward fashion. That
> > way, you see, no one can use the boot magnets ­ which now are just
> > rather ordinary permanent magnets, without memories and without
> > switchable fields ­ to make an overunity device or a self-powering
> > permanent magnet engine.
> >
> > Tom Bearden
> >
> >
> > Radus family members have now very kindly provided photos of the
> > original boots, which can be seen at
> >
> > http://www.cheniere.org/misc/astroboots.htm
>
> --
> Bob Allen
> http://ozarker.org/bob
>
> "Science is what we have learned about how to keep
> from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman
>
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> 

Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots

[Kirk McLoren]

They are not switched off -- they are removed by the lever. The force distance product of the lever was the input energy to produce what you call switched off.
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