date:20051006

When talking to friends, family and others regarding the
Earth-friendly practices that we can all include in our lifestyles, I
always stumble over quantifying the true price of packaging for
consumer goods.  Its easy enough to calculate the transportation costs
of an avacodo from California to Lancaster County, PA.  Its also
fairly straight forward to relay the burden on natural resources - the
real price we pay.  Adding it all up is also easily enough
accomplished.

But, how do you really calculate the expense of packaging materials? 
How much petroleum goes into one plastic bag?  Of course, the plastic
won't break down in any of our lifetimes yet, its not easy to
determine the displacement of a resource when you don't know the
inputs.  For many (Americans anyway) "I won't be here in a million
years so, who cares?".  Then again, there are always the ever
increasing landfills to point to.  NIMBY does have some power there
yet, that approach is only a scare tactic to be exploited and I have
no time for that.

What portion of a tree is consumed to create a cardboard box that is
used just long enough for the DVD player (I almost said VCR :-) ) to
make its way from the factory to the store and then the family room
only to be mummified in the local dump?  How much extra weight does
the box add to the truck?  How much extra fuel does the extra weight
consume?

For a while I questioned whether paper really WAS any better than
plastic.  For a while I used plastic based on the premise that I could
recycle the plastic.  I've now decided that paper is better than
plastic if only for the reason that the paper atleast comes from a
natural resource that is sustainable (sort of).  But, is paper better
than plastic?  What if we returned to using plastic made from soy
beans like ol' Henry's boys discovered?  Would it still be better to
use paper over plastic?

How much energy is consumed to produce all of these packaging
materials?  And how much more is consumed to dispose of them?

Rant as I may, how do we get the point across to the producers of
goods that we want lass packaging?  We can buy local all day long but,
Sony doesn't have a factory near me.  Even if they did, I'd still
probably have to take the packaging with me.

Take care all,
Ken

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Re: [Biofuel] rapid prototyping and computer contour crafting

2005-10-06 Thread Jason and Katie



>A robot developed with NSF support has built the first wall ever
>constructed entirely by machine, with no use of human hands.

Do these people have any idea how much flak they're going to get for
automating construction? that's the only decent job left in my area, and
even then the pay isn't too good. Its going to take a LOT of talking to get
the average schmoe to accept this kind of technology. (personally, i dont
really care, itll make it that much easier for me to build my house, and
more cost effective too...)

---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]


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Re: [Biofuel] copyright theft

2005-10-06 Thread Rexis Tree

Thief! Argh Wonder would any idiots buy any links from him..

But the way, i would like to thank journeytoforever.org for providing
such invaluable information freely. I have learned much reading the
info within.
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Re: [Biofuel] Still looking

Looking at the archives, it appears that the RC airplane folks use
methanol as well.  Perhaps you can find some buffs in your area and
talk to them also.

Take care,
Ken

On 10/6/05, Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Look up automobile in Yellow Pages, and find the guys that sell performance
> parts, race car parts, etc.  After a few calls, someone will tell you where
> you can find it.  I found a supplier in Cayce SC not 1 mile from my job
> called Performance Parts.  The race car community is rather tight and they
> know what one another has or can get.
>
> Chris K
> Cayce, SC
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Bobby Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 3:06 PM
> Subject: [Biofuel] Still looking
>
>
> > In upstate South Carolina near Clemson, still looking for a methanol
> > supplier for aroun $5/gallon or less. Anyone know of one?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bobby Clark
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Hoodia Gordonii ?

2005-10-06 Thread Michael Redler

OK Keith. So this might be one of those moments of clarity for me (I'm not being sarcastic). I really never put into question such comparisons. The first thing that came to my mind was/is "I've never met a fat vegetarian."
Your comments also seem to contradict what Peter Jennings claimed in his story - that beef subsidies make it economically more attractive and effectively creates a predisposition to fatty foods. Perhaps I misinterpreted the story altogether. In any event, It requires that I (and perhaps others) need to rethink a few things.
MikeKeith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Mike>Hi Keith,>>"But beef does not cause obesity.">>I don't totally disagree but, compared to what? Atkins Ulp.>has made it abundantly clear to the public in the US that refined >carbohydrates are one of the most threatening foodsHere's good science by Surgeon Captain Cleave, Director of Medical Research at the Royal Naval Medical School:The Saccharine Disease: Conditions caused by the Taking of Refined Carbohydrates, such as Sugar and White Flour by T. L. Cleave, 1974http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#cleave>to someone fighting obesity. However, the claim made in my previous >post about the beef lobby in the US came from a report by Peter >Jennings called "How to Get Fat Without Really Trying". It asserts >that if beef is disproportionally
subsidized compared to vegetable >farmers, the savings is seen by those with the least amount of >money. In those scenarios, people will choose more calories for the >buck.So they'll buy cheap carbohydrates? "A 3 oz. serving of beef is an excellent source of protein, zinc, vitamin B12, selenium and phosphorus and a good source of niacin, vitamin B6, iron and riboflavin. This is quite a nutritional bargain for the small calorie investment of less than 10% of the Daily Value for calories.">So, put in that context and making the observation that the >subsidies (beef vs. vegetable) is inversely proportional to those in >Europe, one can argue that beef can cause obesity if people are >compelled to make certain choices based on economics.I'll have to spend some time on this that I don't have right now, and some of it will be at Sally Fallon's site. It's not clear to me whether you're talking about
nutrition or economics.>Commentary on the story by The Strategic Alliance for Healthy Food >and Activity Environments >(http://www.pr >eventioninstitute.org/sa/PR_jennings.html).>>"Mr. Jennings begins in the farmlands of America, examining >agricultural subsidies and their impact on the American diet. He >found that most agricultural subsides go to the foods Americans >should be eating less. Nutritionists and health advocates say these >policies are contributing to obesity. Health and Human Services >Secretary Tommy Thompson tells Mr. Jennings that agricultural >subsidies are based on political decisions that are not likely to >change soon.">>Of course, whether or not beef contributes to obesity depends on >what you compare it to. If there were two people, one eating nothing >but steak (for example) and the
other only vegetables, I would not >hesitate to offer an opinion as to which one is more threatened.I would. Weston Price found traditional societies eating traditional diets ranging from virtually all meat to mostly vegetables and not much meat, and all were in a high state of health, until they encountered Western (industrialised) foods. (No vegetarian traditional farming systems.) Price is totally convincing, he offers massive evidence, including many photographs.http://journeytoforever.org/text_price.htmlThe Darwin of nutrition - Weston A. PriceAnyway, the next question would be, which particular beef is that? From which cow? How was it raised? Was that nearby? The same question applies to the vegetables, and to the grain. In other words, you won't be finding me supporting an industrialised beef lobby that gets subsidies wherever it might be, there or here, but you'll certainly find me eating beef, and
raising it too perhaps. The way it works out in the end (and in the past too) is that once the farming system is sustainable so is the diet that's based on it, with a great variety among both. Beef, or rather multi-purpose grazing cattle, beef and dairy, are the mainstay of a whole category of sustainable farming systems, with very convincing records of the health, vigour and longevity of traditional societies based upon such systems (when they still were), for instance the Swiss mountaineers of Loetschendal (dairy, beef, rye, potatoes), or the Masai rotational herders of East Africa (beef, milk and cattle blood). No apparent problems of obesity.Best wishesKeith___
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Re: [Biofuel] Still looking

2005-10-06 Thread Chris

Look up automobile in Yellow Pages, and find the guys that sell performance 
parts, race car parts, etc.  After a few calls, someone will tell you where 
you can find it.  I found a supplier in Cayce SC not 1 mile from my job 
called Performance Parts.  The race car community is rather tight and they 
know what one another has or can get.

Chris K
Cayce, SC



- Original Message - 
From: "Bobby Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 3:06 PM
Subject: [Biofuel] Still looking


> In upstate South Carolina near Clemson, still looking for a methanol
> supplier for aroun $5/gallon or less. Anyone know of one?
>
> Thanks,
> Bobby Clark
>
>
>
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> messages):
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>
> 



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[Biofuel] rapid prototyping and computer contour crafting

2005-10-06 Thread Alt.EnergyNetwork

rapid prototyping and computer contour crafting



NSF-Supported Researcher Builds The Most Historic Wall Since the Great Wall of 
China
< http://www.nsf.gov/eng/engnews/2004/Khoshneviscrafting.jsp >


A robot developed with NSF support has built the first wall ever 
constructed entirely by machine, with no use of human hands. 
Measuring about 5 feet long, 3 feet high, and 6 inches thick, 
the wall was constructed in January 2004 in the University of
 Southern California lab of Behrokh Khoshnevis, Professor of
 Industrial & Systems Engineering. Khoshnevis, who calls his 
creation the most historic wall since the Great Wall of China,
 believes that by the end of 2005, his robots will be able to 
construct a one-story, 2,000-square foot home on site in a single day. 


 
Professor Khoshnevis and graduate student Dooil Hwang with the
 robot they developed for automated construction of walls and
buildings.  
Khoshnevis pioneering efforts to automate the building process
 are based on a technology known as Contour Crafting, a layered
 fabrication process controlled by computer. The idea came to
 him while repairing cracks in his Los Angeles home following
 a 1994 earthquake. After 7 years of research and development, 
Khoshnevis has created a robot that can build large structures 
by extruding semi-liquid material from a pump in inch-thick 
layers to form the outside edges of an object, such as the wall
 of a building. The robot moves back and forth along a gantry 
installed at the construction site to deposit each layer of the
 wall. After the exterior layers have been laid down, the robot 
returns to pour concrete or other filler material into the hollow
 wall. In effect, this technology will enable homes and other 
structures to be printed out from computer design software, 
much as ink jet printers produce documents from word processing
 software. 

One key advantage of using Contour Crafting for automated building
 is its ability to make structures of virtually any geometry 
without the costly, time-consuming steps involved in making molds
 for manual construction of curved surfaces. After a 20,000-year
 history, the process of constructing buildings is about to be
 revolutionized, says Khoshnevis. This technology will allow
 architects, for the first time, to design buildings of any 
shape and configuration that can be constructed at no more 
expense than a structure with conventional, right-angled walls.


 
Diagram of construction of conventional building using 
Contour Crafting. 
 
Khoshnevis also points to important environmental advantages
 associated with automated construction. Since Contour Crafting
 technology can build in 1 day what now takes 6 to 9 months of 
manual construction, it will dramatically reduce the need for 
workers to commute to building sites, thus easing pressure on 
congested transport systems and cutting transport-related air 
pollution. The technology produces little or no material waste,
 potentially reducing construction-related waste by 3 to 7 tons
 for each single-family house built using automated techniques.
 Moreover, construction materials can be chosen for their
 environmental characteristics, such as materials that reduce
 waste and promote recycling, and Khoshnevis is partnering with
 Degussa AG, the worlds largest manufacturer and supplier of
 building materials, to develop the best material for use in
 automated construction. Contour Crafting technology can also
 produce very sophisticated walls with highly-insulating designs
 and materials. 

This research promises to usher in a new era in construction.
 Its strong point is the use of new materials and new information
 technologies to create the next generation of buildings, notes
 Perumalsamy Balaguru, Program Director for Structural Systems and
 Engineering, Division of Civil and Mechanical Systems, in NSFs
 Engineering Directorate. The first commercial-scale applications
 of automated construction technologies are likely to be for
 building emergency shelters and low-income housing, followed
 by general residential construction, especially homes with exotic
 architecture featuring complex curves and other geometries that
 are expensive to build using manual methods. 

Khoshnevis also plans to explore the applicability of Contour 
Crafting technology for building extraterrestrial habitats. One
 of the very few feasible approaches for building structures on
 the Moon or Mars, Contour Crafting technology would have to be
 adapted to use lava paste created from dust on the lunar or
 Mars surface as a building material and researchers will have
 to develop greater understanding of how the technology would
 perform under partial-gravity conditions. 

For more information, contact Behrokh Khoshnevis at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], (213) 740-4889. Animations of the Contour
 Crafting process may be viewed at www-rcf.usc.edu/~khoshnev. 

See also related NSF ENG News articles on layered fabrication 
processes, incl

Re: [Biofuel] atkins

Arden,

Have you incorporated exercise into your lifestyle?  I am on a very
high carb diet for several reasons.  However, I don't eat ANY refined
carbs (white flour or white sugar).  I also feel wonderful but, I
don't think that it has anything to do with my diet.  But, if I miss
exercise for a couple of days, I can definitely feel the difference. 
I can also tell how much better I feel the day after vigorous
exercise.  Feeling energetic is more about metabolism than food inputs
unless you aren't eating enough and your metabolism is jump-started by
exercise.

In response to your comparison of atkins versus low-fat diets and
fullness.  There have been many, many studies that indicate that
high-fat foods generally have a much lower fullness-factor or
satiating affect compared to whole grains/beans.  Unless the
"low-fatters" are eating poor quality food such as white bread and
iceburg lettuce, there is no reason for them to be walking around
hungry.  I am very rarely hungry, unless I haven't eaten in a
reasonable time.  Then again, I tend to eat my fair share of granola
and oatmeal both of which are VERY filling.  check out your favorite
foods at www.nutritiondata.com.  It gives you everything you might
want to know about a particular food - some things that you may have
never thought to ask.

On 10/6/05, Arden B. Norder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My good bio-friends,
>
> I feel I must speak out in defence of Dr. Atkins.
>
> It so obvious, by the tone of the comments here, that very, very few have
> actually read his book. I have seen a couple of TV probrams where the Atkins
> diet is put under fire. What they have failed to do in all cases isexplain 
> that
> there are 4 phases to the Atkins way of life.
>
> My wife and I have adopted the Atkins way of life and we have lost 12 and 13
> kilos respectively. I have to say - I have never felt so good. We have been 
> busy
> with our new life style for 3 months now and we are almost to our goal weights
> and are currently in phase 2. I hvae only 1 kilo to go and then on to phase 3.
> My colestorol from 9 down to 7.5. Yes that was high and it can be even lower 
> but
> apparently I have been blessed with the heart and collestorol troubles from my
> mother and her father and his father. thus, it's genetic. I am under my 
> doctors
> servaillence. I was not overweight. I am 2 metres, medium build and weighed 94
> kgs. I am still 2 metres and weigh now 81 kgs. I have an abundance of energy 
> and
> honestly speeking - have never felt better.
>
> Please, educate yourself before you use your key-board and knock a good thing.
>
> Have any of you ever considered what a low-fat diet does to your system?? Yet 
> we
> accept that as being OK. Hmmm.
>
> There was here mention of no scientific proof and/or no references - read the
> book and you wil see the pages and pages and pages of references. His
>
> I, unlike the low-fatters, do not walk around with a hungry feeling all day
> long, and in a body that tries to store every extra calorie because it thinks 
> it
> it is starving.
>
> READ THE BOOK!!! Let's open our minds.
>
> Greetings from the Netherlands
>
> Arden
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes 84

2005-10-06 Thread ufdaland



On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 20:43:36 +1000 Peter Harves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> Could somebody on the list give me some advice .
> I have just bought a Mercedes 1984 model 300D
> Does this have a filter in the tank. 
> Thanks Peter
> 
>Peter, I have a performance products catalog that shows all Mercedes
Diesels to have a filter in the tank.
Jerry

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Re: [Biofuel] experience with Kits or prebuilts systems

2005-10-06 Thread Keith Addison

>I  would be very interested in hearing peoples comments contrasting
>
>diy plans
>small conversion kits i.e. hot water heater or drum into reactor
>small built systems ~$3k
>
>as well as what are your favorite sites for information or sales of these
>materials
>
>I have looked at the past posts.

Did you look at this one?

http://snipurl.com/h9ou
Re: [biofuel] Best Processer

Best wishes

Keith
 

>Mike
>in San Jose, Ca


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Re: [Biofuel] And now I start.

2005-10-06 Thread Bobby Clark

Kurt,

I started out last weekend just making a one liter batch in a cheap blender. 
Just put in 3.5g of lye and 200ml of methanol, blend about 2 or 3 minutes 
(all it takes to dissolve that little bit). Heat your oil a little and it 
doesn't take much because the blender agitates it so well (I am assuming it 
is unused oil) and dump in a liter of the oil and blend for 15-20 minutes. 
The yield won't be great because it is not a closed system and I don't even 
have to tell you about the humidity around here, but you are able to observe 
how the chemicals react and separation becomes evident pretty soon after 
mixing. I let the mixture sit in the blender over night and then decanted 
the biodiesel into a clear plastic bottle. I filled the bottle the rest of 
the way with water, shook it for about 3 minutes and let it settle out 
overnight. The next day I decanted again and repeated the process. My yield 
was only about 1/2 a liter but I am sure of why my yield was so low just by 
doing the process.

Happy blending and best of luck. Hopefully we could meet up one day since I 
am assuming we live fairly close to each other (I work in Clemson, you live 
in the Anderson area?)

Bobby Clark


>From: Kurt Nolte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: [Biofuel] And now I start.
>Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2005 12:29:47 -0400
>
>Alright, finally found a small-volume supply of Methanol around here, so I
>have enough sitting right beside me for my first couple liter trial 
>batches.
>
>
>PEAK Gas line antifreeze and fuel dryer. I checked the label, and it
>contains a nice big warning "Danger: Poison! Contains Methyl Alcohol, CAS
>67-56-1"
>
>Armed with some fresh peanut oil (We use it for our fryer when we do 
>turkeys
>at Thanksgiving, so we have a big five gallon bucket of it.), and I'm
>heading out in just a while to get a measuring glass and some other things.
>I'll probably work up one of the test batch processors, and use the fryer
>pot as a water bath for the temperature control; it's big enough, and the
>HDPE container I scrounged fits tightly into it.
>
>Should have some results tonight, I hope!
>
>Now bravely do I sally forth to a make my first charge against the dreaded
>beast! Onward!
>
>-K


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Re: [Biofuel] atkins

2005-10-06 Thread Kevin Kunkel




Mike, the atkins diet properly followed actually 
will lower your cholesterol level, a couple of tips to lose weight, only 
drink water 1/2 to 1 gallon a day, do not drink sodas especially diet sodas 
or anything cotaining high fructose corn syrup, eliminate bread, pasta, or any 
other product made from white flour,  eat lots of raw vegetables, moderate 
amounts of fruit berries are best, and lean meat for protien,  snack 
on nuts and seeds, eat as close to nature as possible,  if you follow 
this program you can lose quite alot of weight,  my father lost 40 lbs in 
60 days  went from 267 to 227 and is still losing 
  Kevin 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Michael Redler 
  
  To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org 
  
  Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 10:40 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Biofuel] atkins
  
  
  John,
   
  I'm certainly not an expert. However, your comments are forcing me to ask 
  whether people actually experienced results with Atkins or if this is an 
  extremely well conducted campaign of misinformation.
   
  What about the Peter Jennings report and the movie "supersize me" (for 
  example). Is the fast food link to obesity more closely related to the stuff 
  around the meat (i.e. the bun, etc.)?
   
  Either way, I'm not a candidate for the Atkins diet simply because of my 
  colesterol level.
   
  MikeJohn Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  wrote:
  Michael 
Redler wrote:> I don't totally disagree but, compared to what? 
Atkins has made it abundantly clear to the public in the US that refined 
carbohydrates are one of the most threatening foods to someone fighting 
obesity. However,Atkins was a quack.Very low 
carbohydrate ketogenic diets may certainly help some peoplelose weight, 
but the Aktins approach has some serious problems, mostnotably, the 
exacerbation of atherogenic dyslipidemia in some subjects. Some 
TinFoilHat types have suggested his family refused an autopsy and had 
his body cremated to destroy any evidence in cardiovascular 
disease.Certainly, there is real science behind VLCK diets, but the 
claimsadvanced by Atkins were more about selling books and merchandise 
thanimproving diets and fighting obesity.But also be aware that 
some of the skeptics greatly overstate their casetoo.For 
example, atkinsexposed.com claim a 2003 review of Atkins "theories"in 
JACN concluded:> "When properly evaluated, the theories and 
arguments of popular low> carbohydrate diet books... rely on poorly 
controlled,> non-peer-reviewed studies, anecdotes and non-science 
rhetoric. This> review illustrates the complexity of nutrition 
misinformation> perpetrated by some popular press diet books. A 
closer look at the> science behind the claims made for [these books] 
reveals nothing more> than a modern twist on an antique food 
fad."Now here's the interesting part - compare that quote to the 
originalfrom http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/22/1/9> 
When properly evaluated, the theories and arguments of popular low 
carbohydrate diet books like the Zone rely on poorly controlled, 
non-peer-reviewed studies, anecdotes and non-science rhetoric. This 
review illustrates the complexity of nutrition misinformation 
perpetrated by some popular press diet books. A closer look at the 
science behind the claims made for the Zone Diet reveals nothing 
more> than a modern twist on an antique food fad.Talk 
about misrepresentation by selective quotation!Still, I'd be very 
very skeptical of any claims made by Aktins, Mercola, Ornish, Sears, and 
others who want to sell you a book.jh-- John E Hayes, 
M.S.Instructor, Dietetics Program, DIET 203 / DIET 215Doctoral 
Student, Nutritional SciencesUniversity of Connecticut - 326 Koons 
Hall[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 
860.486.0007___Biofuel 
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[Biofuel] experience with Kits or prebuilts systems

2005-10-06 Thread michael skinner

I  would be very interested in hearing peoples comments contrasting

diy plans
small conversion kits i.e. hot water heater or drum into reactor
small built systems ~$3k

as well as what are your favorite sites for information or sales of these 
materials

I have looked at the past posts.

Mike
in San Jose, Ca



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[Biofuel] And now I start.

2005-10-06 Thread Kurt Nolte

Alright, finally found a small-volume supply of Methanol around here,
so I have enough sitting right beside me for my first couple liter
trial batches. 

PEAK Gas line antifreeze and fuel dryer. I checked the label, and it
contains a nice big warning "Danger: Poison! Contains Methyl Alcohol,
CAS 67-56-1"

Armed with some fresh peanut oil (We use it for our fryer when we do
turkeys at Thanksgiving, so we have a big five gallon bucket of it.),
and I'm heading out in just a while to get a measuring glass and some
other things. I'll probably work up one of the test batch processors,
and use the fryer pot as a water bath for the temperature control; it's
big enough, and the HDPE container I scrounged fits tightly into it. 

Should have some results tonight, I hope!

Now bravely do I sally forth to a make my first charge against the dreaded beast! Onward!

-K


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Re: [Biofuel] atkins

2005-10-06 Thread Arden B. Norder

My good bio-friends,

I feel I must speak out in defence of Dr. Atkins.

It so obvious, by the tone of the comments here, that very, very few have
actually read his book. I have seen a couple of TV probrams where the Atkins
diet is put under fire. What they have failed to do in all cases isexplain that
there are 4 phases to the Atkins way of life.

My wife and I have adopted the Atkins way of life and we have lost 12 and 13
kilos respectively. I have to say - I have never felt so good. We have been busy
with our new life style for 3 months now and we are almost to our goal weights
and are currently in phase 2. I hvae only 1 kilo to go and then on to phase 3.
My colestorol from 9 down to 7.5. Yes that was high and it can be even lower but
apparently I have been blessed with the heart and collestorol troubles from my
mother and her father and his father. thus, it's genetic. I am under my doctors
servaillence. I was not overweight. I am 2 metres, medium build and weighed 94
kgs. I am still 2 metres and weigh now 81 kgs. I have an abundance of energy and
honestly speeking - have never felt better.

Please, educate yourself before you use your key-board and knock a good thing.  

Have any of you ever considered what a low-fat diet does to your system?? Yet we
accept that as being OK. Hmmm.

There was here mention of no scientific proof and/or no references - read the
book and you wil see the pages and pages and pages of references. His

I, unlike the low-fatters, do not walk around with a hungry feeling all day
long, and in a body that tries to store every extra calorie because it thinks it
it is starving.

READ THE BOOK!!! Let's open our minds.

Greetings from the Netherlands

Arden


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Re: [Biofuel] copyright theft

2005-10-06 Thread Keith Addison

Someone just advised me of this:

>check out ebay item number 8002774582. this ebayer is selling links 
>to your web page

See:
http://snipurl.com/i7rn
eBay.co.uk: biodiesel (not lpg gas petrol diesel) cheaper fuel (item 
8002774582 end time 01-Oct-05 14:10:20 BST)

Amazing. Not the first time though, not the last either I guess.

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/

 


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Re: [Biofuel] atkins

2005-10-06 Thread Garth & Kim Travis

Greetings,
Yes, some people do experience a temporary loss of weight on Atkins, but
everyone I saw try it, lost their health as well.  When they went
back to eating normally, they ballooned worse than before.  Typical
diet stuff.
Permanent weight loss is achieved by lifestyle change.  Focus on a
healthier lifestyle and the weight loss comes with the territory. 
This avoids the yoyo effect of diets, the feeling deprived of
"good" things as well as the wasted money on fads.  It
does take longer, but like all good things, it lasts longer too.
Bright Blessings,
Kim
At 10:40 AM 10/6/2005, you wrote:
John,

I'm certainly not an expert. However, your comments are forcing me to ask
whether people actually experienced results with Atkins or if this is an
extremely well conducted campaign of misinformation.

What about the Peter Jennings report and the movie "supersize
me" (for example). Is the fast food link to obesity more closely
related to the stuff around the meat (i.e. the bun, etc.)?

Either way, I'm not a candidate for the Atkins diet simply because of my
colesterol level.

Mike
John Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Michael Redler wrote:

> I don't totally disagree but, compared to what? Atkins has made
it 

abundantly clear to the public in the US that refined carbohydrates
are 

one of the most threatening foods to someone fighting obesity.
However,

Atkins was a quack.

Very low carbohydrate ketogenic diets may certainly help some
people

lose weight, but the Aktins approach has some serious problems,
most

notably, the exacerbation of atherogenic dyslipidemia in some
subjects. 

Some TinFoilHat types have suggested his family refused an autopsy
and 

had his body cremated to destroy any evidence in cardiovascular
disease.

Certainly, there is real science behind VLCK diets, but the
claims

advanced by Atkins were more about selling books and merchandise
than

improving diets and fighting obesity.

But also be aware that some of the skeptics greatly overstate their
case

too.

For example, atkinsexposed.com claim a 2003 review of Atkins
"theories"

in JACN concluded:

> "When properly evaluated, the theories and arguments of
popular low

> carbohydrate diet books... rely on poorly controlled,

> non-peer-reviewed studies, anecdotes and non-science rhetoric.
This

> review illustrates the complexity of nutrition
misinformation

> perpetrated by some popular press diet books. A closer look at
the

> science behind the claims made for [these books] reveals nothing
more

> than a modern twist on an antique food fad."

Now here's the interesting part - compare that quote to the
original

from

http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/22/1/9

> When properly evaluated, the theories and arguments of popular
low 

carbohydrate diet books like the Zone rely on poorly controlled,

non-peer-reviewed studies, anecdotes and non-science rhetoric. This

review illustrates the complexity of nutrition misinformation 

perpetrated by some popular press diet books. A closer look at the

science behind the claims made for the Zone Diet reveals nothing
more

> than a modern twist on an antique food fad.

Talk about misrepresentation by selective quotation!

Still, I'd be very very skeptical of any claims made by Aktins,
Mercola, 

Ornish, Sears, and others who want to sell you a book.

jh

-- 

John E Hayes, M.S.

Instructor, Dietetics Program, DIET 203 / DIET 215

Doctoral Student, Nutritional Sciences

University of Connecticut - 326 Koons Hall

[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 860.486.0007

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Re: [Biofuel] atkins

2005-10-06 Thread

Title: Message



So I 
lost 56lb in 120 days on "Hard Core" Atkins. IE: 50grams or less carbs a day. 

And 3 
years now on "non-hard core" Atkins, have gained back only 10lbs in that 
time.
I 
had blood work before I started and 6 months after I was on the 
diet. 
Cholesterol dropped from 166 to 144
Heart 
rate from high 70's to mid 60's 
For me 
it has worked great and my doctor is happy with the results. 

 
Mark 

 
 

  
  -Original Message- 
   From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris 
  lloydSent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 9:00 AMTo: 
  Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] 
  atkins
  > Either way, I'm not a candidate for the Atkins diet simply because 
  of my cholesterol level.. <
   
  No problem, there was a scientific study done on 
  the Atkins diet in the UK early this year, weight, blood pressure and 
  cholesterol tested every day and food consumption monitored. It seems people 
  on that diet just do not eat as many calories as people eating carbs. They 
  even had the test subjects locked in an air chamber monitoring the amount of 
  waste gas being produced to work out energy lost in gas production and oily 
  stools. But they did not expect the lower cholesterol levels and could not 
  explain how the dropped. They thought that fresh cooked meat was better for 
  you than processed and the oil used in cooking should only be used once 
  and then dumped.  Chris.
   
    
  Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk
   
   
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Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes 84

2005-10-06 Thread Kenji James Fuse

There is a 'strainer' on the bottom of the fuel tank, where the feed line
starts. One of these days I'd like to change it, just to see how much crud
is in there.

I've been driving a 1976 300D on 30%petro-diesel/70% WVO for a year now.
No modifications, although it smokes more withthis blend than on bio or
straight petrol.
When a decent diesel particulate filter (catalytic or otherwise) becomes
available and affordable, I'll install one of those. (they're standard
on new diesels in Germany; I imagine North America will follow suit
soon - time to invest in platinum!) I'm also thinking
about installing a Diesel-Therm style fuel filter heater (keep the filter
from clogging, although that hasn't been an issue, unlike my Ford pickup!)
which would probably make for a more complete combustion and reduce smoke.

Fuse

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Re: [Biofuel] Hoodia Gordonii ?

2005-10-06 Thread Keith Addison

Hi Mike

>Hi Keith,
>
>"But beef does not cause obesity."
>
>I don't totally disagree but, compared to what? Atkins 

Ulp.

>has made it abundantly clear to the public in the US that refined 
>carbohydrates are one of the most threatening foods

Here's good science by Surgeon Captain Cleave, Director of Medical 
Research at the Royal Naval Medical School:

The Saccharine Disease: Conditions caused by the Taking of Refined 
Carbohydrates, such as Sugar and White Flour by T. L. Cleave, 1974
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library.html#cleave

>to someone fighting obesity. However, the claim made in my previous 
>post about the beef lobby in the US came from a report by Peter 
>Jennings called "How to Get Fat Without Really Trying". It asserts 
>that if beef is disproportionally subsidized compared to vegetable 
>farmers, the savings is seen by those with the least amount of 
>money. In those scenarios, people will choose more calories for the 
>buck.

So they'll buy cheap carbohydrates? "A 3 oz. serving of beef is an 
excellent source of protein, zinc, vitamin B12, selenium and 
phosphorus and a good source of niacin, vitamin B6, iron and 
riboflavin. This is quite a nutritional bargain for the small calorie 
investment of less than 10% of the Daily Value for calories."

>So, put in that context and making the observation that the 
>subsidies (beef vs. vegetable) is inversely proportional to those in 
>Europe, one can argue that beef can cause obesity if people are 
>compelled to make certain choices based on economics.

I'll have to spend some time on this that I don't have right now, and 
some of it will be at Sally Fallon's site. It's not clear to me 
whether you're talking about nutrition or economics.

>Commentary on the story by The Strategic Alliance for Healthy Food 
>and Activity Environments 
>(http://www.pr 
>eventioninstitute.org/sa/PR_jennings.html).
>
>"Mr. Jennings begins in the farmlands of America, examining 
>agricultural subsidies and their impact on the American diet. He 
>found that most agricultural subsides go to the foods Americans 
>should be eating less. Nutritionists and health advocates say these 
>policies are contributing to obesity. Health and Human Services 
>Secretary Tommy Thompson tells Mr. Jennings that agricultural 
>subsidies are based on political decisions that are not likely to 
>change soon."
>
>Of course, whether or not beef contributes to obesity depends on 
>what you compare it to. If there were two people, one eating nothing 
>but steak (for example) and the other only vegetables, I would not 
>hesitate to offer an opinion as to which one is more threatened.

I would. Weston Price found traditional societies eating traditional 
diets ranging from virtually all meat to mostly vegetables and not 
much meat, and all were in a high state of health, until they 
encountered Western (industrialised) foods. (No vegetarian 
traditional farming systems.) Price is totally convincing, he offers 
massive evidence, including many photographs.

http://journeytoforever.org/text_price.html
The Darwin of nutrition - Weston A. Price

Anyway, the next question would be, which particular beef is that? 
 From which cow? How was it raised? Was that nearby? The same question 
applies to the vegetables, and to the grain. In other words, you 
won't be finding me supporting an industrialised beef lobby that gets 
subsidies wherever it might be, there or here, but you'll certainly 
find me eating beef, and raising it too perhaps. The way it works out 
in the end (and in the past too) is that once the farming system is 
sustainable so is the diet that's based on it, with a great variety 
among both. Beef, or rather multi-purpose grazing cattle, beef and 
dairy, are the mainstay of a whole category of sustainable farming 
systems, with very convincing records of the health, vigour and 
longevity of traditional societies based upon such systems (when they 
still were), for instance the Swiss mountaineers of Loetschendal 
(dairy, beef, rye, potatoes), or the Masai rotational herders of East 
Africa (beef, milk and cattle blood). No apparent problems of obesity.

Best wishes

Keith

>Mike
>
>Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Hello Michaels
>
> >Michael:
> >
> >Since herbal supplements are NOT regulated by the FDA, it's "buyer
> >beware" (not that I had much faith in the FDA to begin with). Some
> >herbs are extremely dangerous:
> >
> >h
> >ttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A62671-2004Sep4.html
> >
> >I hope that you're also watching what you take in. Americans are
> >among the fattest people in the world because of huge subsidies to
> >the beef industry and the popular use of high fructose corn syrup in
> >processed foods.
>
>Stay away from refined carbohydrates, stay away from processed foods,
>try to stick with locally grown fresh products. But beef does not
>cause obesity.
>
>Best wishes
>
>Keith
>

_

Re: [Biofuel] New question on oil seed crops and ley farming

2005-10-06 Thread dermot

Andres Yver wrote:

>Hello Dermot,
>
>Thanks for the kind and thoughtful reply. I have been a bit flippant in 
>my response to you, because i have judged too hastily, as i now see by 
>your words.  I shall endeavor to answer your questions as honestly as 
>possible.
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
Hi Andre,

Thanks for the nice reply.
I'll try to deal with some of the points you raised in a week or so when 
my workload lessens a little.

Regards
Dermot

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Re: [Biofuel] atkins

Chris lloyd wrote:
>  > Either way, I'm not a candidate for the Atkins diet simply because of 
> my cholesterol level.. <
>  
> No problem, there was a scientific study done on the Atkins diet in the 
> UK early this year, weight, blood pressure and cholesterol tested every 
> day and food consumption monitored. It seems people on that diet just do 
> not eat as many calories as people eating carbs. They even had the test 
> subjects locked in an air chamber monitoring the amount of waste gas 
> being produced to work out energy lost in gas production and oily 
> stools. But they did not expect the lower cholesterol levels and could 
> not explain how the dropped. They thought that fresh cooked meat was 
> better for you than processed and the oil used in cooking should only be 
> used once and then dumped.  Chris.

This is, as an former professor of mine would say, "an area of active 
research." Last month, I went to my friend's prospectus defense. His 
doctoral dissertation looks at how fiber supplementation affects the 
blood lipid profiles of individuals on very low carb ketogenic diets.

And in his prospectus talk he talked about the statistical methods he 
was going to use to analyze the data he had collected and I raised 
exactly the point you mention here: what about total energy?

It turns out the men in his sample consumed less energy as the study 
progressed, but the proposed analysis didn't account for this. He 
actually has the data to control for energy intake in his analysis - 
it's just a matter of using the right statistics.

This is exactly why the process of science matters. When you read a diet 
book from Atkins or Sears or whomever, there generally isn't somebody 
else in the room saying "yeah, but what about X?" Or as Feynman put it 
"science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves."

Anyway, as I said before, there is plenty of real science about when and 
how ketogenic diets work, but you should be very careful about claims 
made by salesmen with letters after their names.

After my friend Damian finished his PhD, I asked "What are you gonna do 
now?" His reply? "Start selling a line of vitamins on late night talk 
radio of course." :)

jh

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Re: [Biofuel] atkins

On 10/6/05, Chris lloyd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> No problem, there was a scientific study done on the Atkins diet in the UK
> early this year, weight, blood pressure and cholesterol tested every day and
> food consumption monitored. It seems people on that diet just do not eat as
> many calories as people eating carbs. They even had the test subjects locked
> in an air chamber monitoring the amount of waste gas being produced to work
> out energy lost in gas production and oily stools. But they did not expect
> the lower cholesterol levels and could not explain how the dropped. They
> thought that fresh cooked meat was better for you than processed and the oil
> used in cooking should only be used once and then dumped.  Chris.
>

Sounds like this particular study was comparing apples to oranges but,
I might be reading something into it.  However, it does certainly
sounds by your description that the study compared an Atkins diet of
fresh meats to an omniverous diet of processed foods.  No doubt, a
diet of refined carbohydrates is not a good diet.  However, locally
grown, organic whole grains are invaluable in many peoples' diets.

Let's face it, the best diet is exercise.  You can eat anything you
want in moderation but, it won't help eating one thing or another
unless you move your body.

A few interesting things:

There are fewer calories in 1 gram of carbohydrates than either
proteins or fats.  Fats contain the highest calory count per gram. 
Eat too much fat and it will be stored as fat for reserve.  Protein is
great but, if you eat too much, it will also be converted to fat and
reserved.  Of course, carbohydrates can also be stored as fat but,
considering that they are the first used energy source, the chances of
carbs being stored as fat are less.  That is, providing that you eat
only as much as your body can use or less.

Carbohydrates are the first category that your body uses.  Next is
protein.  Then fat.  Eat more carbs and what is left for energy? 
Internal stores of fat.

Whatever you eat, buying local, locally grown and organic will benefit
everyone!  And if you walk or ride your bike to pick it up, even
better yet.

Take care,
Ken

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Re: [Biofuel] atkins

No, but I'll get my lawyers on it pronto! ;-)

John Hayes wrote:

Heh. Thanks for the laugh Mike. I assume you are familiar with this?

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

Mike Weaver wrote:

Dear Sir:

While I do not take issue with your assessment of Dr. Atkins, I must
demand that you retract your statement:

"Some TinFoilHat types have suggested his family refused an autopsy and
had his body cremated to destroy any evidence in cardiovascular disease."

as it unfairly stereotypes those us who choose this versatile and inexpensive headgear.

If you do not, I will be forced to challenge you on the Field on Honor. If I do not hear from you
within 24 hours, I will get out a roll of Reynolds Finest and begin folding my weapon.

You have been warned. Your fate is in your hands.

Mike Weaver
President, potentate, hegemon, Lord High and most exalted & &
The Global Tin Foil Hat Society.

John Hayes wrote:

Michael Redler wrote:

I don't totally disagree but, compared to what? Atkins has made it

abundantly clear to the public in the US that refined carbohydrates are
one of the most threatening foods to someone fighting obesity. However,

Atkins was a quack.

Very low carbohydrate ketogenic diets may certainly help some people
lose weight, but the Aktins approach has some serious problems, most
notably, the exacerbation of atherogenic dyslipidemia in some subjects.
Some TinFoilHat types have suggested his family refused an autopsy and
had his body cremated to destroy any evidence in cardiovascular disease.

Certainly, there is real science behind VLCK diets, but the claims
advanced by Atkins were more about selling books and merchandise than
improving diets and fighting obesity.

But also be aware that some of the skeptics greatly overstate their case
too.

For example, atkinsexposed.com claim a 2003 review of Atkins "theories"
in JACN concluded:

"When properly evaluated, the theories and arguments of popular low
carbohydrate diet books... rely on poorly controlled,
non-peer-reviewed studies, anecdotes and non-science rhetoric. This
review illustrates the complexity of nutrition misinformation
perpetrated by some popular press diet books. A closer look at the
science behind the claims made for [these books] reveals nothing more
than a modern twist on an antique food fad."

Now here's the interesting part - compare that quote to the original

>from http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/22/1/9

When properly evaluated, the theories and arguments of popular low

carbohydrate diet books like the Zone rely on poorly controlled,
non-peer-reviewed studies, anecdotes and non-science rhetoric. This
review illustrates the complexity of nutrition misinformation
perpetrated by some popular press diet books. A closer look at the
science behind the claims made for the Zone Diet reveals nothing more

than a modern twist on an antique food fad.

Talk about misrepresentation by selective quotation!

Still, I'd be very very skeptical of any claims made by Aktins, Mercola,
Ornish, Sears, and others who want to sell you a book.

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Re: [Biofuel] atkins

Heh. Thanks for the laugh Mike. I assume you are familiar with this?

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

jh


Mike Weaver wrote:
> Dear Sir:
> 
> While I do not take issue with your assessment of Dr. Atkins, I must 
> demand that you retract your statement:
> 
> "Some TinFoilHat types have suggested his family refused an autopsy and 
> had his body cremated to destroy any evidence in cardiovascular disease."
> 
> as it unfairly stereotypes those us who choose this versatile and inexpensive 
> headgear.
> 
> If you do not, I will be forced to challenge you on the Field on Honor.  If I 
> do not hear from you 
> within 24 hours, I will get out a roll of Reynolds Finest and begin folding 
> my weapon.
> 
> You have been warned.  Your fate is in your hands.
> 
> Mike Weaver
> President, potentate, hegemon, Lord High and most exalted & &
> The Global Tin Foil Hat Society.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Hayes wrote:
> 
> 
>>Michael Redler wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I don't totally disagree but, compared to what? Atkins has made it 
>>
>>abundantly clear to the public in the US that refined carbohydrates are 
>>one of the most threatening foods to someone fighting obesity. However,
>>
>>
>>Atkins was a quack.
>>
>>Very low carbohydrate ketogenic diets may certainly help some people
>>lose weight, but the Aktins approach has some serious problems, most
>>notably, the exacerbation of atherogenic dyslipidemia in some subjects. 
>>Some TinFoilHat types have suggested his family refused an autopsy and 
>>had his body cremated to destroy any evidence in cardiovascular disease.
>>
>>Certainly, there is real science behind VLCK diets, but the claims
>>advanced by Atkins were more about selling books and merchandise than
>>improving diets and fighting obesity.
>>
>>But also be aware that some of the skeptics greatly overstate their case
>>too.
>>
>>For example, atkinsexposed.com claim a 2003 review of Atkins "theories"
>>in JACN concluded:
>>
>>
>>>"When properly evaluated, the theories and arguments of popular low
>>>carbohydrate diet books... rely on poorly controlled,
>>>non-peer-reviewed studies, anecdotes and non-science rhetoric. This
>>>review illustrates the complexity of nutrition misinformation
>>>perpetrated by some popular press diet books. A closer look at the
>>>science behind the claims made for [these books] reveals nothing more
>>>than a modern twist on an antique food fad."
>>
>>
>>Now here's the interesting part - compare that quote to the original
> 
>>from http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/22/1/9
> 
>>>When properly evaluated, the theories and arguments of popular low 
>>
>>carbohydrate diet books like the Zone rely on poorly controlled, 
>>non-peer-reviewed studies, anecdotes and non-science rhetoric. This 
>>review illustrates the complexity of nutrition misinformation 
>>perpetrated by some popular press diet books. A closer look at the 
>>science behind the claims made for the Zone Diet reveals nothing more
>>
>>> than a modern twist on an antique food fad.
>>
>>
>>Talk about misrepresentation by selective quotation!
>>
>>Still, I'd be very very skeptical of any claims made by Aktins, Mercola, 
>>Ornish, Sears, and others who want to sell you a book.
>>
>>jh
>>
>> 
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
> 
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> 
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> 


-- 
John E Hayes, M.S.
Instructor, Dietetics Program, DIET 203 / DIET 215
Doctoral Student, Nutritional Sciences
University of Connecticut - 326 Koons Hall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 860.486.0007


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Re: [Biofuel] atkins

2005-10-06 Thread Michael Redler

Whoa!
I was trying to think of other stuff you could add to your title, like king, queen, prince, etc. then realized that certain combinations won't work, unless you live in the Village (NYC).
It took your post to realize the "L" in TinFoilHat. I must have a reading disorder. Anyway, I was trying to figure out what a TinFoiHat was. It reminds me of the time I fell out of my chair when someone looking for stainless steel tanks posted a message titled "SS Tanks in Minnesota".
:-)
MikeMike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dear Sir:While I do not take issue with your assessment of Dr. Atkins, I must demand that you retract your statement:"Some TinFoilHat types have suggested his family refused an autopsy and had his body cremated to destroy any evidence in cardiovascular disease."as it unfairly stereotypes those us who choose this versatile and inexpensive headgear.If you do not, I will be forced to challenge you on the Field on Honor. If I do not hear from you within 24 hours, I will get out a roll of Reynolds Finest and begin folding my weapon.You have been warned. Your fate is in your hands.Mike WeaverPresident, potentate, hegemon, Lord High and most exalted & &The Global Tin Foil Hat Society.___
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Re: [Biofuel] atkins

Dear Sir:

While I do not take issue with your assessment of Dr. Atkins, I must 
demand that you retract your statement:

"Some TinFoilHat types have suggested his family refused an autopsy and 
had his body cremated to destroy any evidence in cardiovascular disease."

as it unfairly stereotypes those us who choose this versatile and inexpensive 
headgear.

If you do not, I will be forced to challenge you on the Field on Honor.  If I 
do not hear from you 
within 24 hours, I will get out a roll of Reynolds Finest and begin folding my 
weapon.

You have been warned.  Your fate is in your hands.

Mike Weaver
President, potentate, hegemon, Lord High and most exalted & &
The Global Tin Foil Hat Society.





John Hayes wrote:

>Michael Redler wrote:
>
> > I don't totally disagree but, compared to what? Atkins has made it 
>abundantly clear to the public in the US that refined carbohydrates are 
>one of the most threatening foods to someone fighting obesity. However,
>
>
>Atkins was a quack.
>
>Very low carbohydrate ketogenic diets may certainly help some people
>lose weight, but the Aktins approach has some serious problems, most
>notably, the exacerbation of atherogenic dyslipidemia in some subjects. 
>Some TinFoilHat types have suggested his family refused an autopsy and 
>had his body cremated to destroy any evidence in cardiovascular disease.
>
>Certainly, there is real science behind VLCK diets, but the claims
>advanced by Atkins were more about selling books and merchandise than
>improving diets and fighting obesity.
>
>But also be aware that some of the skeptics greatly overstate their case
>too.
>
>For example, atkinsexposed.com claim a 2003 review of Atkins "theories"
>in JACN concluded:
>
> > "When properly evaluated, the theories and arguments of popular low
> > carbohydrate diet books... rely on poorly controlled,
> > non-peer-reviewed studies, anecdotes and non-science rhetoric. This
> > review illustrates the complexity of nutrition misinformation
> > perpetrated by some popular press diet books. A closer look at the
> > science behind the claims made for [these books] reveals nothing more
> > than a modern twist on an antique food fad."
>
>
>Now here's the interesting part - compare that quote to the original
>from http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/22/1/9
>
> > When properly evaluated, the theories and arguments of popular low 
>carbohydrate diet books like the Zone rely on poorly controlled, 
>non-peer-reviewed studies, anecdotes and non-science rhetoric. This 
>review illustrates the complexity of nutrition misinformation 
>perpetrated by some popular press diet books. A closer look at the 
>science behind the claims made for the Zone Diet reveals nothing more
> >  than a modern twist on an antique food fad.
>
>
>Talk about misrepresentation by selective quotation!
>
>Still, I'd be very very skeptical of any claims made by Aktins, Mercola, 
>Ornish, Sears, and others who want to sell you a book.
>
>jh
>
>  
>



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Re: [Biofuel] atkins

2005-10-06 Thread Chris lloyd




> Either way, I'm not a candidate for the Atkins diet simply because of 
my cholesterol level.. <
 
No problem, there was a scientific study done on 
the Atkins diet in the UK early this year, weight, blood pressure and 
cholesterol tested every day and food consumption monitored. It seems people on 
that diet just do not eat as many calories as people eating carbs. They even had 
the test subjects locked in an air chamber monitoring the amount of waste gas 
being produced to work out energy lost in gas production and oily stools. But 
they did not expect the lower cholesterol levels and could not explain how the 
dropped. They thought that fresh cooked meat was better for you 
than processed and the oil used in cooking should only be used once and 
then dumped.  Chris.
 
  
Wessex Ferret Club www.wessexferretclub.co.uk
 
 
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Re: [Biofuel] atkins

I tried Atkins - it worked, but I hated it.  My cholesterol level went
up also.

I'm back to being 90% vegetarian

Michael Redler wrote:

  John,

  I'm certainly not an expert. However, your comments are forcing
me to ask whether people actually experienced results with Atkins or if
this is an extremely well conducted campaign of misinformation.

  What about the Peter Jennings report and the movie "supersize
me" (for example). Is the fast food link to obesity more closely
related to the stuff around the meat (i.e. the bun, etc.)?

  Either way, I'm not a candidate for the Atkins diet simply
because of my colesterol level.

  Mike

  John Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Michael
Redler wrote:

> I don't totally disagree but, compared to what? Atkins has made it

abundantly clear to the public in the US that refined carbohydrates are

one of the most threatening foods to someone fighting obesity. However,

Atkins was a quack.

Very low carbohydrate ketogenic diets may certainly help some people
lose weight, but the Aktins approach has some serious problems, most
notably, the exacerbation of atherogenic dyslipidemia in some subjects.

Some TinFoilHat types have suggested his family refused an autopsy and 
had his body cremated to destroy any evidence in cardiovascular disease.

Certainly, there is real science behind VLCK diets, but the claims
advanced by Atkins were more about selling books and merchandise than
improving diets and fighting obesity.

But also be aware that some of the skeptics greatly overstate their case
too.

For example, atkinsexposed.com claim a 2003 review of Atkins "theories"
in JACN concluded:

> "When properly evaluated, the theories and arguments of popular low
> carbohydrate diet books... rely on poorly controlled,
> non-peer-reviewed studies, anecdotes and non-science rhetoric. This
> review illustrates the complexity of nutrition misinformation
> perpetrated by some popular press diet books. A closer look at the
> science behind the claims made for [these books] reveals nothing
more
> than a modern twist on an antique food fad."

Now here's the interesting part - compare that quote to the original
from http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/22/1/9

> When properly evaluated, the theories and arguments of popular low

carbohydrate diet books like the Zone rely on poorly controlled, 
non-peer-reviewed studies, anecdotes and non-science rhetoric. This 
review illustrates the complexity of nutrition misinformation 
perpetrated by some popular press diet books. A closer look at the 
science behind the claims made for the Zone Diet reveals nothing more
> than a modern twist on an antique food fad.

Talk about misrepresentation by selective quotation!

Still, I'd be very very skeptical of any claims made by Aktins,
Mercola, 
Ornish, Sears, and others who want to sell you a book.

jh

-- 
John E Hayes, M.S.
Instructor, Dietetics Program, DIET 203 / DIET 215
Doctoral Student, Nutritional Sciences
University of Connecticut - 326 Koons Hall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 860.486.0007

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messages):
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Re: [Biofuel] atkins

2005-10-06 Thread Michael Redler


John,
 
I'm certainly not an expert. However, your comments are forcing me to ask whether people actually experienced results with Atkins or if this is an extremely well conducted campaign of misinformation.
 
What about the Peter Jennings report and the movie "supersize me" (for example). Is the fast food link to obesity more closely related to the stuff around the meat (i.e. the bun, etc.)?
 
Either way, I'm not a candidate for the Atkins diet simply because of my colesterol level.
 
MikeJohn Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Michael Redler wrote:> I don't totally disagree but, compared to what? Atkins has made it abundantly clear to the public in the US that refined carbohydrates are one of the most threatening foods to someone fighting obesity. However,Atkins was a quack.Very low carbohydrate ketogenic diets may certainly help some peoplelose weight, but the Aktins approach has some serious problems, mostnotably, the exacerbation of atherogenic dyslipidemia in some subjects. Some TinFoilHat types have suggested his family refused an autopsy and had his body cremated to destroy any evidence in cardiovascular disease.Certainly, there is real science behind VLCK diets, but the claimsadvanced by Atkins were more about selling books and merchandise thanimproving diets and fighting obesity.But also be aware that some of the skeptics
 greatly overstate their casetoo.For example, atkinsexposed.com claim a 2003 review of Atkins "theories"in JACN concluded:> "When properly evaluated, the theories and arguments of popular low> carbohydrate diet books... rely on poorly controlled,> non-peer-reviewed studies, anecdotes and non-science rhetoric. This> review illustrates the complexity of nutrition misinformation> perpetrated by some popular press diet books. A closer look at the> science behind the claims made for [these books] reveals nothing more> than a modern twist on an antique food fad."Now here's the interesting part - compare that quote to the originalfrom http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/22/1/9> When properly evaluated, the theories and arguments of popular low carbohydrate diet books like the Zone rely on poorly controlled, non-peer-reviewed studies, anecdotes and non-science rhetoric. This review
 illustrates the complexity of nutrition misinformation perpetrated by some popular press diet books. A closer look at the science behind the claims made for the Zone Diet reveals nothing more> than a modern twist on an antique food fad.Talk about misrepresentation by selective quotation!Still, I'd be very very skeptical of any claims made by Aktins, Mercola, Ornish, Sears, and others who want to sell you a book.jh-- John E Hayes, M.S.Instructor, Dietetics Program, DIET 203 / DIET 215Doctoral Student, Nutritional SciencesUniversity of Connecticut - 326 Koons Hall[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 860.486.0007___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and
 Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___
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[Biofuel] atkins

Michael Redler wrote:

 > I don't totally disagree but, compared to what? Atkins has made it 
abundantly clear to the public in the US that refined carbohydrates are 
one of the most threatening foods to someone fighting obesity. However,

Atkins was a quack.

Very low carbohydrate ketogenic diets may certainly help some people
lose weight, but the Aktins approach has some serious problems, most
notably, the exacerbation of atherogenic dyslipidemia in some subjects. 
Some TinFoilHat types have suggested his family refused an autopsy and 
had his body cremated to destroy any evidence in cardiovascular disease.

Certainly, there is real science behind VLCK diets, but the claims
advanced by Atkins were more about selling books and merchandise than
improving diets and fighting obesity.

But also be aware that some of the skeptics greatly overstate their case
too.

For example, atkinsexposed.com claim a 2003 review of Atkins "theories"
in JACN concluded:

 > "When properly evaluated, the theories and arguments of popular low
 > carbohydrate diet books... rely on poorly controlled,
 > non-peer-reviewed studies, anecdotes and non-science rhetoric. This
 > review illustrates the complexity of nutrition misinformation
 > perpetrated by some popular press diet books. A closer look at the
 > science behind the claims made for [these books] reveals nothing more
 > than a modern twist on an antique food fad."

Now here's the interesting part - compare that quote to the original
from http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/22/1/9

 > When properly evaluated, the theories and arguments of popular low 
carbohydrate diet books like the Zone rely on poorly controlled, 
non-peer-reviewed studies, anecdotes and non-science rhetoric. This 
review illustrates the complexity of nutrition misinformation 
perpetrated by some popular press diet books. A closer look at the 
science behind the claims made for the Zone Diet reveals nothing more
 >  than a modern twist on an antique food fad.

Talk about misrepresentation by selective quotation!

Still, I'd be very very skeptical of any claims made by Aktins, Mercola, 
Ornish, Sears, and others who want to sell you a book.

jh

-- 
John E Hayes, M.S.
Instructor, Dietetics Program, DIET 203 / DIET 215
Doctoral Student, Nutritional Sciences
University of Connecticut - 326 Koons Hall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] / 860.486.0007

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Re: [Biofuel] methoxide solution

Look for laundry detergent bottles or similar

ReZn0r wrote:

>Hola Juan,
>  Industrial soaps come usually in ths kind of containers. I take
>  mine from there. 25 L
>Con fecha jueves, 06 de octubre de 2005, 3:26:27, escribiste:
>
>JB> hello, 
> 
>JB>  I was wondering whether or not methoxide solution would melt
>JB> any kind of plastics containers. Its quite difficult to find a
>JB> small plastic container that with the international code 2. I can
>JB> only find containers that are use to put  mayo or ketchup.  could
>JB> someone advice me in this ? 
> 
>JB>  thank you 
>JB>  Juan
>  
>
>
>
>  
>



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Re: [Biofuel] Hoodia Gordonii ?