date:20051007

Ok thanks
I realise that the compression should be comparatively similar between
cylinders, any ideas on what basic (ball park) compression should be
on a diesel engine?  Antone know of a trick to seal the coolant system
for a minor leak coming from head gasket?  Wishful thinking?
>From the looks of the coolant I flushed out someone already tried the
bronse flake sealant.
Cheers
Brian Rodgers

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Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo charged diesel vehicle!?

2005-10-07 Thread S. Chapin

Brian Rodgers wrote:

>Hello everybody
>Thank you so much for the replies.
>I was told when I got this car that it had a blown head gasket. The
>reasoning the mechanic used was excess pressure on the coolant system.
>Also, now that I have started the engine a few times it fires up
>pretty quick.
>Here is an excerpt from a note I sent  to a friend this afternoon.
>It may give you a heads up on what is happening.
>I just made some changes to the coolant lines and it made a big
>difference. I took it for the 'first' test drive, sweet!!!
>What I have found so far:
>Fan clutch slipping.
>In-line thermostat??? Yeah the thermostat was jammed inside the big
>hose coming from the head to radiator, with two hose clamps holding it
>in place. That can't be right. Anyway it's working- I tested it in
>boiling water  Also upon inspection there is slight discoloration on
>the Thermostat inflow side, looks like exhaust smoke.
>Still blowing white smoke when idling. Smoke turns black when accelerating.
>Shifts great, all gears work.
>No speedo.
>
>As you can see it may indeed be a blown head gasket. Although no oil
>emulsion (coolant in oil) and no oil in coolant.
>What I would really like is a shop manual for this car. If I am going
>to pull the head I feel better if I know where everything goes back
>to. Not to mention, torques and bolt tightening patterns. Does anyone
>know of a  good Peugeot  parts supplier?
>Again thanks for the info and help.
>Brian Rodgers
>
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>
>
>  
>
Brian,
You can check for exhaust gases in the cooling system with EGas 
Anaylizer(smog check) or a compression test tp see whats up there... and 
then pull the head and have it checked for tiny little holes,and I mean 
tiny.
Cheers,
SC

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Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo charged diesel vehicle!?


Doug,

I never really checked it, but years ago it was said that Volvo used
the Peugot engine in their diesels initially and for many years.

Hakan

At 00:44 08/10/2005, you wrote:
>I have a dim memory from decades ago of reading a comment on the Peugeot
>403/404 engines, which said that they were excellent and would have been
>good racing engines for their size class - if they hadn't had rubber seals
>(o-rings?) between the wet liners and the block (head?). Consider the
>possibility that somethong has gone wrong with these seals - if the engine
>has wet liners (wet meaning in contact with the coolant).
>
>I learned to drive partly on my father's 403 and drove it a lot. I owned a
>404 and a 304. They were very nice cars except for
>
>* the bronze differential ring gear in the 404 which was overstressed by
>radial tires and forced the use of bias ply tires - I found this out the
>hard way.
>
>* the very tight engine compartment in the 304 which was hard to work
>in - you had to take off the header tank to get at the spark plugs.
>
>* the rubber driveshaft covers in the front wheel drive 304 were expensive
>and hard to replace - but it was absolutely essential to replace them
>*before* they developed a hole which they tended to do at a certain age;
>otherwise the shafts would quickly need replacing.
>
>I think Peugeot was later than other manufacturers in moving to rust
>resistant steel for the North American market but I think by 1981
>they may have started to adapt - anyways in New Mexico you
>shouldn't have that much trouble. I was in Montreal and Ottawa.
>
>Doug Woodard
>St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
>
>
>
>On Fri, 7 Oct 2005, Brian Rodgers wrote:
>
> > October 7, 2005
> >
> > Hi everyone
> >
> > After three months of wishy washy thinking and anxiety over money to
> > invest in my biodiesel project, this very moment my dream has been
> > realized. I am now the proud owner of a 1981 Peugeot 505 four cylinder
> > turbo charged diesel vehicle! I know what you are thinking, " What's a
> > American "good ol' boy' doing with a Peugeot?" Well, it is a long
> > story, the short version is: If we live our lives in a spiritually
> > wholesome and environmentally friendly fashion,  we can expect good
> > things to come to us. We don't need much and we have patience. Anyway,
> > I said this is the short version right? We now have this car sitting
> > here at the Ranch in northeastern New Mexico. It has only one
> > mechanical problem that I can see; It is very hard to start, when it
> > finally does it bellows blue-white smoke, and the coolant lines slowly
> > begin to pressurize. The radiator hoses balloon up, very scary and we
> > shut it down before they blow. At first glance it looks like a leaking
> > head gasket. It is now sitting in front of my little workshop and I am
> > so excited to finally have a car that I can make my own biodiesel for.
> > Nevertheless, my rash days are past and I am content to ask first
> > before I tear into anything mechanically. I ask for information.  I am
> > relatively new to Biofuels, but I do have a fine set of Mechanics
> > tools, much updated from the days long ago when I was a factory
> > trained VW mechanic.  Please don't give me the negative perspective.
> > If you do, I can take it. But I still have that wonderful glow  a guy
> > gets when he gets a new car to refurbish.
> >
> > How's that line go? "Sing me the bad news!"
> >
> >
> >
> > So far I have zero cash investment in this really cute little car. I
> > have three Mercedes gas powered monsters which have been steadily
> > moving closer to the ranch dump. I toyed with the idea of buying a
> > 1982 300 Turbo Sedan that a friend has offered for $2000.00. I don't
> > like the body style,  too heavy, and we couldn't afford it anyway.
> > This Peugeot is almost 1000 pounds lighter than my 1980 480SE. And
> > damn, did I say it is sleek and in mint condition? So yeah that's the
> > good news. Anybody out there have any experience with these? Looks
> > like a very clean engine, but that may be because the radiator already
> > washed it off with a steam bath. I have extended experience with
> > petrol vehicles.  My tools are metric and I love to read first then
> > spin nuts after I at least think I understand.
> >
> >
> >
> > Diesel engines, this is only my second. I won't say what I did to the
> > first one. I intend to make this motor sing again! So, I have heard of
> > carbon buildup in the cylinders causing issues in dino-diesel motors.
> > Any ideas? Things I could check. I suppose checking the compression
> > through the spark plug holes is out of the question, lol. I will be
> > looking for the factory service manual, unless it is written in French
> > of course. Nah, I have factory service literature on the Benz and it
> > is not in German. See how wishy washy I have become? Maybe it is the
> > fog this morning, yeah fog in New Mexico, go figure. They have fog in
> > France right?
> >
> >
> >
> > So how did my b

Re: [Biofuel] Global Rich List

2005-10-07 Thread robert luis rabello

Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote:

> Hallo Folks,
> 
> An interesting site:
> 
> http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Wow!  I knew I was comfortable and doing well, but that's a REAL eye 
opener!  What have I ever done to be in such elite company?


> Gives one pause.

Indeed!  Thanks Gustl!

robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


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Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo charged diesel vehicle!?

2005-10-07 Thread S. Chapin

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>I have a dim memory from decades ago of reading a comment on the Peugeot
>403/404 engines, which said that they were excellent and would have been
>good racing engines for their size class - if they hadn't had rubber seals
>(o-rings?) between the wet liners and the block (head?). Consider the
>possibility that somethong has gone wrong with these seals - if the engine
>has wet liners (wet meaning in contact with the coolant).
>
I dunno if you are talking about the diesel 405, as a racing engine... 
Anyway. I once had a big beautiful 404(5?) diesel wagon.
I had the motor rebuilt as it had water in the crankcase. several 
thousand miles went by on the new rebuild. Then one morning it would not 
turn over, after the usual checks I tore off the head. It was a thin 
aluminum affair, and as it turns out rather spongelike.
This motor was also "sleeved" and so managed to empty the radiator both 
through the head and the bottom of the cylinders.
I never saw it overheat, but must have, or enough to spread open the 
sleeves.
I  think there were some improvements with the x2ds (I think what you 
have with the 505 turbo, or a swapped xd3te?)
I loved the wagon, and would even put the Peugeot turbodiesel in the 
land rover to replace the MB220d motor.. but no time or funds. Oddly, or 
not, when I got the wagon from a rather frustrated family member I 
discovered it had been shot. Looked alot like a 45 caliber hole, neatly 
missed the wheel and made a mess of the brake rotor ("it pulls a little 
and vibrates some").
I would have used a smaller caliber but more bullets. On the other hand 
I had a friend with the same car who often drove between Fairbanks and 
Seattle, one trip with unplanned downriver dunking, and it never missed 
a beat.. so
Good Luck and check http://www.peugeotclub.org/diag.html 
http://www.505turbo.com/forum/index.php?s=d8453b9b1b88719807d3fcee555e6b31&showforum=2
and Peugeot Pete (google)
Cheers,
S. Chapin

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Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo charged diesel vehicle!?

Hello everybody
Thank you so much for the replies.
I was told when I got this car that it had a blown head gasket. The
reasoning the mechanic used was excess pressure on the coolant system.
Also, now that I have started the engine a few times it fires up
pretty quick.
Here is an excerpt from a note I sent  to a friend this afternoon.
It may give you a heads up on what is happening.
I just made some changes to the coolant lines and it made a big
difference. I took it for the 'first' test drive, sweet!!!
What I have found so far:
Fan clutch slipping.
In-line thermostat??? Yeah the thermostat was jammed inside the big
hose coming from the head to radiator, with two hose clamps holding it
in place. That can't be right. Anyway it's working- I tested it in
boiling water  Also upon inspection there is slight discoloration on
the Thermostat inflow side, looks like exhaust smoke.
Still blowing white smoke when idling. Smoke turns black when accelerating.
Shifts great, all gears work.
No speedo.

As you can see it may indeed be a blown head gasket. Although no oil
emulsion (coolant in oil) and no oil in coolant.
What I would really like is a shop manual for this car. If I am going
to pull the head I feel better if I know where everything goes back
to. Not to mention, torques and bolt tightening patterns. Does anyone
know of a  good Peugeot  parts supplier?
Again thanks for the info and help.
Brian Rodgers

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Re: [Biofuel] Paper.Was--Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Jason and Katie

im going to soung like a fool for saying this, but im good at that anyway...

what about hemp? its been fought over for years about whether or not its
worth the risk of raising for paper and other fiber materials, its basically
a scrub that has no nutritional value (that i know of anyway) and takes much
breeding and cultivation to produce marijuana of any effect (which is why i
dont understand how stoners can pay attention long enough to grow the
stuff), so why doesnt the government make it a registered ag product like
ethanol and use it for packaging and such?

jason

---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]


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Re: [Biofuel] Test Batch Help

2005-10-07 Thread Jason and Katie




Ben,
    looks like it just needs a wash, 
i had the same questions when i started, but it is usually kind of pale when you 
use new oil.  it doesn't tend to be darker until you use WVO.
 
jason
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Re: [Biofuel] transesterification

>Hi Mike,
>Interesting question, I'm new with this so I can't answer your question,
>but what would the benefit be to adding glyceryl triacetate back to the
>fuel be?  Higher yields or better properties of the end result?
>Thanks
>Jim

Archived messages on glyceryl triacetate:
http://snipurl.com/i8wx

See: How the process works
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#howprocess

... and MUCH previous discussion.

Best wishes

Keith



>michael skinner wrote:
>
> >I'm a chemist.
> >
> >Has any one written anything about the details of the chemistry in making
> >biodiesel.
> >
> >Looks like you are doing a transesterification to replace glycerine with
> >methanol.  This would drop the molecular wight and thus the viscosity.
> >
> >adding a little bit of an surfactant (soap) would form miscells which might
> >help with the reaction i.e. run reaction at lower temp.
> >
> >does anyone know the details of the reaction?
> >
> >has an one considered taking the glycerine and reacting with acetic acid
> >(vinegar) forming the tri-ester (glyceryl triacetate bp 258 C, specific
> >gravity 1.156, soluble in ether) and adding that back into the fuel.


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Re: [Biofuel] Buying SVO

>Let's say I wanted to start brewing my own B100 to save some money. 
>Is it possible to buy SVO at less than $2.50/gallon? And if so, 
>where would one get such (in Houston?) and how much would one have 
>to buy? a 55gal drum? or two?
>
>Dave

I don't know about SVO prices in the US, but consider finding a 
source of flush oil. When oil refiners change from one type of oil to 
another they flush the previous oil out of the machinery with the new 
oil, and have no use for the resulting mixture, prices should be 
reasonable or better. As long as the Iodine Values aren't too high, 
mixed oils are no problem for making biodiesel.

But I think if saving money were your priority you'd do better to 
find a reliable source of of good-quality WVO.

Best wishes

Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

Nice, Joe, thanks!

>This is so true, and the flip side is that even if we were to get really
>serious about recycling, it is still only the third R of the three R's
>Reduce Re-use and Recycle.  The area where I live was the first in
>Canada (maybe north america?) to institute a blue box recycling program
>for housholds in the municipality.  But for me personnaly it took
>several years before I began to consider what it means to recycle. None
>of my neighbors have really caught on yet either.  I would put
>cardboard, tin cans, and plastic bottles in the bin but everything else
>went in the garbage. Our family of 4 would typically have two garbage
>cans full and half a box of recyclables every week. Then I began one day
>to just look at what was in my hand on the way to the garbage can each
>time and it started to change.  Every peice of paper, envelopes, scraps,
>junk mail, kleenex tissues etc. everything made of plastic, glass and
>metal, bottles, bottle caps, tie wraps, insulation from electrical
>wires, packaging materials, used plastic wrap and ziplock bags, aluminum
>foil wrap etc. I would find myself turning around and heading to the
>recycle station instead of the garbage.  Then it changed to two recycle
>boxes at the curb and one half filled garbage can.
>Now I am reforming myself again and re-thinking a lot of stuff to do
>with the first two R's like why did I buy things like kleenex tissues,
>and paper towels when a hanky and rag would do just like they used to in
>days gone by and all they need it a wash and re-use?  Why did I buy
>rolls of scotch tape made with disposable plastic dispenser?  Sure it
>can be recycled but my trusty metal desk top tape dispenser only
>requires that I change the roll when it runs out.  Ziplock bags can be
>washed and re-used.  I try to buy things that are meant to last now.
>What did it take to bring about this change in me?  It only took a
>willingness to consider things and an acceptance of the loss of
>convenience.  It seems that this is a very hard thing for many people to
>do though.  The expansionist economic system on which our society is
>based is such a well oiled machine that it is more than a little
>demoralizing at times to consider just how hard it is to apply the
>brakes.  People are so well controlled and indoctrinated into the rules
>of the game that I fear that nothing short of some catastrophe will
>initiate the change.  Maybe he is right.  Maybe  a global energy crisis
>will be a blessing in disguise.

Maybe, sad to say. So unnecessary, especially since it looks like a 
good bet that the poorer countries with no record of fossil-fuel 
gluttony and addiction are going to pay the brunt of the price for 
the rich nations' intransigence. Hardly the first time, but I don't 
think thisn sort of "solution" can go on just being taken for granted 
for much longer.

Best wishes

Keith


>You know the old saying "no pain, no
>gain" it is so sad but true nontheless.
>
>Joe
>
> >As far as recycling is concerned, about the only thing we recycle
> >really well is gold. Funny that, it's not as if it were exactly the
> >most useful stuff there is. I believe you can make a high-explosive
> >out of it, but it's seldom used for some reason.
> >
> >We shall have to learn to use, recycle and re-use everything as
> >carefully as we use gold.


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Re: [Biofuel] transesterification

2005-10-07 Thread michael skinner

glycerine represent about 5% of the yield loss converting it woudl actually 
boost what could be added back by giving you 3 times the volume you lost.

Original Message Follows
From: JJJN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] transesterification
Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 15:29:25 -0700

Hi Mike,
Interesting question, I'm new with this so I can't answer your question,
but what would the benefit be to adding glyceryl triacetate back to the
fuel be?  Higher yields or better properties of the end result?
Thanks
Jim

michael skinner wrote:

 >I'm a chemist.
 >
 >Has any one written anything about the details of the chemistry in making
 >biodiesel.
 >
 >Looks like you are doing a transesterification to replace glycerine with
 >methanol.  This would drop the molecular wight and thus the viscosity.
 >
 >adding a little bit of an surfactant (soap) would form miscells which 
might
 >help with the reaction i.e. run reaction at lower temp.
 >
 >does anyone know the details of the reaction?
 >
 >has an one considered taking the glycerine and reacting with acetic acid
 >(vinegar) forming the tri-ester (glyceryl triacetate bp 258 C, specific
 >gravity 1.156, soluble in ether) and adding that back into the fuel.
 >
 >
 >
 >___
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 >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
 >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
 >
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 >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
 >
 >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 
messages):
 >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
 >
 >
 >
 >

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Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo charged diesel vehicle!?

2005-10-07 Thread dwoodard

I have a dim memory from decades ago of reading a comment on the Peugeot
403/404 engines, which said that they were excellent and would have been
good racing engines for their size class - if they hadn't had rubber seals
(o-rings?) between the wet liners and the block (head?). Consider the
possibility that somethong has gone wrong with these seals - if the engine
has wet liners (wet meaning in contact with the coolant).

I learned to drive partly on my father's 403 and drove it a lot. I owned a
404 and a 304. They were very nice cars except for

* the bronze differential ring gear in the 404 which was overstressed by
radial tires and forced the use of bias ply tires - I found this out the
hard way.

* the very tight engine compartment in the 304 which was hard to work
in - you had to take off the header tank to get at the spark plugs.

* the rubber driveshaft covers in the front wheel drive 304 were expensive
and hard to replace - but it was absolutely essential to replace them
*before* they developed a hole which they tended to do at a certain age;
otherwise the shafts would quickly need replacing.

I think Peugeot was later than other manufacturers in moving to rust
resistant steel for the North American market but I think by 1981
they may have started to adapt - anyways in New Mexico you
shouldn't have that much trouble. I was in Montreal and Ottawa.

Doug Woodard
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada



On Fri, 7 Oct 2005, Brian Rodgers wrote:

> October 7, 2005
>
> Hi everyone
>
> After three months of wishy washy thinking and anxiety over money to
> invest in my biodiesel project, this very moment my dream has been
> realized. I am now the proud owner of a 1981 Peugeot 505 four cylinder
> turbo charged diesel vehicle! I know what you are thinking, " What's a
> American "good ol' boy' doing with a Peugeot?" Well, it is a long
> story, the short version is: If we live our lives in a spiritually
> wholesome and environmentally friendly fashion,  we can expect good
> things to come to us. We don't need much and we have patience. Anyway,
> I said this is the short version right? We now have this car sitting
> here at the Ranch in northeastern New Mexico. It has only one
> mechanical problem that I can see; It is very hard to start, when it
> finally does it bellows blue-white smoke, and the coolant lines slowly
> begin to pressurize. The radiator hoses balloon up, very scary and we
> shut it down before they blow. At first glance it looks like a leaking
> head gasket. It is now sitting in front of my little workshop and I am
> so excited to finally have a car that I can make my own biodiesel for.
> Nevertheless, my rash days are past and I am content to ask first
> before I tear into anything mechanically. I ask for information.  I am
> relatively new to Biofuels, but I do have a fine set of Mechanics
> tools, much updated from the days long ago when I was a factory
> trained VW mechanic.  Please don't give me the negative perspective.
> If you do, I can take it. But I still have that wonderful glow  a guy
> gets when he gets a new car to refurbish.
>
> How's that line go? "Sing me the bad news!"
>
>
>
> So far I have zero cash investment in this really cute little car. I
> have three Mercedes gas powered monsters which have been steadily
> moving closer to the ranch dump. I toyed with the idea of buying a
> 1982 300 Turbo Sedan that a friend has offered for $2000.00. I don't
> like the body style,  too heavy, and we couldn't afford it anyway.
> This Peugeot is almost 1000 pounds lighter than my 1980 480SE. And
> damn, did I say it is sleek and in mint condition? So yeah that's the
> good news. Anybody out there have any experience with these? Looks
> like a very clean engine, but that may be because the radiator already
> washed it off with a steam bath. I have extended experience with
> petrol vehicles.  My tools are metric and I love to read first then
> spin nuts after I at least think I understand.
>
>
>
> Diesel engines, this is only my second. I won't say what I did to the
> first one. I intend to make this motor sing again! So, I have heard of
> carbon buildup in the cylinders causing issues in dino-diesel motors.
> Any ideas? Things I could check. I suppose checking the compression
> through the spark plug holes is out of the question, lol. I will be
> looking for the factory service manual, unless it is written in French
> of course. Nah, I have factory service literature on the Benz and it
> is not in German. See how wishy washy I have become? Maybe it is the
> fog this morning, yeah fog in New Mexico, go figure. They have fog in
> France right?
>
>
>
> So how did my bio-diesel processing chemicals and WVO collecting go
> this week? Not well, physically. I talked it up pretty good, whatever
> that is worth. I think I know what I need to find for the test
> batches. A couple of little bottles of Heet (methanol).  Blue or
> yellow? There is a bit of confusion in the biofuel group about this,
> and a ja

Re: [Biofuel] transesterification

2005-10-07 Thread JJJN

Hi Mike,
Interesting question, I'm new with this so I can't answer your question, 
but what would the benefit be to adding glyceryl triacetate back to the 
fuel be?  Higher yields or better properties of the end result?
Thanks
Jim

michael skinner wrote:

>I'm a chemist.
>
>Has any one written anything about the details of the chemistry in making 
>biodiesel.
>
>Looks like you are doing a transesterification to replace glycerine with 
>methanol.  This would drop the molecular wight and thus the viscosity.
>
>adding a little bit of an surfactant (soap) would form miscells which might 
>help with the reaction i.e. run reaction at lower temp.
>
>does anyone know the details of the reaction?
>
>has an one considered taking the glycerine and reacting with acetic acid 
>(vinegar) forming the tri-ester (glyceryl triacetate bp 258 C, specific 
>gravity 1.156, soluble in ether) and adding that back into the fuel.
>
>
>
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>
>  
>

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[Biofuel] Buying SVO

2005-10-07 Thread Dave Covert




Let's 
say I wanted to start brewing my own B100 to save some money. Is it possible to 
buy SVO at less than $2.50/gallon? And if so, where would one get such (in 
Houston?) and how much would one have to buy? a 55gal drum? or 
two?
 
Dave

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Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo charged diesel

2005-10-07 Thread Busyditch

There is diesel Peuggie for sale on ebay, too.
- Original Message - 
From: "Doug Foskey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo charged diesel


There ia an Australian Peugeot (and other French cars) list: Aussiefrogs

 I suggest you consider joining, as there are some very knowledgeable buffs
on
the list.

regards Doug
(Peugeot 405SRDT: great car!)

On Saturday 08 October 2005 3:12, Keith Addison wrote:
> >October 7, 2005
> >
> >Hi everyone
> >
> >After three months of wishy washy thinking and anxiety over money to
> >invest in my biodiesel project, this very moment my dream has been
> >realized. I am now the proud owner of a 1981 Peugeot 505 four cylinder
> >turbo charged diesel vehicle! I know what you are thinking,
>
> I'm thinking Bravo! Well done! Good for you! Maybe I'm not the only one.
> See:
>
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_404.html
> The best car in the world
>
> :-)
>
> A 505 is just a 404 in drag, they're great! A friend of mine drove
> one from London to Johannesburg, way back before they invented roads
> and stuff. Best of good luck with it Brian, I hope you get all the
> problems licked.
>
> Keith
>
> >" What's a
> >American "good ol' boy' doing with a Peugeot?" Well, it is a long
> >story, the short version is: If we live our lives in a spiritually
> >wholesome and environmentally friendly fashion,  we can expect good
> >things to come to us. We don't need much and we have patience. Anyway,
> >I said this is the short version right? We now have this car sitting
> >here at the Ranch in northeastern New Mexico. It has only one
> >mechanical problem that I can see; It is very hard to start, when it
> >finally does it bellows blue-white smoke, and the coolant lines slowly
> >begin to pressurize. The radiator hoses balloon up, very scary and we
> >shut it down before they blow. At first glance it looks like a leaking
> >head gasket. It is now sitting in front of my little workshop and I am
> >so excited to finally have a car that I can make my own biodiesel for.
> >Nevertheless, my rash days are past and I am content to ask first
> >before I tear into anything mechanically. I ask for information.  I am
> >relatively new to Biofuels, but I do have a fine set of Mechanics
> >tools, much updated from the days long ago when I was a factory
> >trained VW mechanic.  Please don't give me the negative perspective.
> >If you do, I can take it. But I still have that wonderful glow  a guy
> >gets when he gets a new car to refurbish.
> >
> >How's that line go? "Sing me the bad news!"
> >
> >
> >
> >So far I have zero cash investment in this really cute little car. I
> >have three Mercedes gas powered monsters which have been steadily
> >moving closer to the ranch dump. I toyed with the idea of buying a
> >1982 300 Turbo Sedan that a friend has offered for $2000.00. I don't
> >like the body style,  too heavy, and we couldn't afford it anyway.
> >This Peugeot is almost 1000 pounds lighter than my 1980 480SE. And
> >damn, did I say it is sleek and in mint condition? So yeah that's the
> >good news. Anybody out there have any experience with these? Looks
> >like a very clean engine, but that may be because the radiator already
> >washed it off with a steam bath. I have extended experience with
> >petrol vehicles.  My tools are metric and I love to read first then
> >spin nuts after I at least think I understand.
> >
> >
> >
> >Diesel engines, this is only my second. I won't say what I did to the
> >first one. I intend to make this motor sing again! So, I have heard of
> >carbon buildup in the cylinders causing issues in dino-diesel motors.
> >Any ideas? Things I could check. I suppose checking the compression
> >through the spark plug holes is out of the question, lol. I will be
> >looking for the factory service manual, unless it is written in French
> >of course. Nah, I have factory service literature on the Benz and it
> >is not in German. See how wishy washy I have become? Maybe it is the
> >fog this morning, yeah fog in New Mexico, go figure. They have fog in
> >France right?
> >
> >
> >
> >So how did my bio-diesel processing chemicals and WVO collecting go
> >this week? Not well, physically. I talked it up pretty good, whatever
> >that is worth. I think I know what I need to find for the test
> >batches. A couple of little bottles of Heet (methanol).  Blue or
> >yellow? There is a bit of confusion in the biofuel group about this,
> >and a jar of Red Devil drain opener (lye.) A five gallon can for
> >transporting the WVO back to the ranch and a 12 volt pump for filling
> >my container at the rear of the Mc Donald's. Oh, and I have to ask
> >Vince, the owner of the local McDonald's, if is ok to use some of the
> >WVO from his business.
> >
> >
> >
> >Ok, I am so excited about our new diesel that I am totally torn
> >between writing and thinking about it and going out into the fog and
> >startingÖ something, any

Re: [Biofuel] Still looking

2005-10-07 Thread JJJN

Look up Chemicals in the yellow pages Brenntag comes to mind 2.45 gal. 4 
drums or more 3.45 for one up for smaller sizes.

Chris wrote:

>Look up automobile in Yellow Pages, and find the guys that sell performance 
>parts, race car parts, etc.  After a few calls, someone will tell you where 
>you can find it.  I found a supplier in Cayce SC not 1 mile from my job 
>called Performance Parts.  The race car community is rather tight and they 
>know what one another has or can get.
>
>Chris K
>Cayce, SC
>
>
>
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Bobby Clark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: 
>Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 3:06 PM
>Subject: [Biofuel] Still looking
>
>
>  
>
>>In upstate South Carolina near Clemson, still looking for a methanol
>>supplier for aroun $5/gallon or less. Anyone know of one?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Bobby Clark
>>
>>
>>
>>___
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>>
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>>messages):
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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>
>
>  
>

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Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo charged diesel vehicle!?

2005-10-07 Thread Juan B

Your Welcome Brian!!

I am here to help and to learn from you guys :) On 10/7/05, Brian Rodgers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Wow, too cool, you all are.I knew I was in the right place to learn.Dammit all, there is so much to learn.
Thanks Juan, I was hoping there was something I could do right awaybefore I find a service manual. Flushing the coolant is a great idea.I will pull off some of the worse looking hoses and take a look inside
for blockage. A friend and I were looking for the thermostat whichseems like it should be near the outlet of the head but we were unableto see anything that looked like one.I will go out there to the shopand look again at that hose which is ballooning when the engine is
running. I have a feeling the thermostat is inside the hose becausethere is an odd size reduction on the outlet from the head. I am abook person, well tech books anyway. So, let me ask you (all) this:Does anyone have the service manual for the Peugeot 505 diesel?
Next> Dammit again Keith, heehee. You have so much going on with yourwebsite. Sorry, somehow I missed the "Best car in the world" sectioncompletely. Just goes to show; I must be living my life right. First I
found this list and then I switched away from thinking ethanol todoing biodiesel and a whole new world opens up for me. How in the heckdid I manage to scavenge such a fine diesel vehicle completelyunaware? Thank you for everything, people.
Now I know I can make this little sweetie sing again. Also I joinedthe Peugeot yahoo group. I just gotta find the books for this gem.Again, I am back to
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_404.htmlReading, reading and learning.Great site Keith.I am soon to be a real biodiesel man.Sincerely,Brian Rodgers___
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Re: [Biofuel] E10 experience here in Manila

2005-10-07 Thread Ramon

Louie,

You know once you start thinking about "commercial production" you
will find all sorts of hurdles and blocks put in your way by big
business and BIG Oil stooges in government.  The idea is to discourage
anyone who tries to think independently and make him toe the line, or
tax it to death so he will give up.  My suggestion is, don't think
about selling and profits initially... just make the biodiesel for
your own use - or give it away to friends and relatives - I'm sure
they'll be happy to buy you a case of beer in exchange. ;)

Seriously, I'll be looking forward to hearing about what you have in the "works"

Good luck!
Mon

On 10/6/05, RU 9 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mon,
>
> You got the same problem with a Phil. Coconut Authority manager here in
> Zamboanga City.  He has been into coco-diesel for about 15 years now, and he
> cannot go into commercial production due to the DOE requirements. The tests
> are expensive.
>
> We were in a meeting with DOST-PCIERD requesting for funds, but they are
> hesitant since there is no R&D involved.
>
> I have something in the works, but this is not about funding. Will let
> everyone know once  everything is in place.
>
> Louie
>
>
>
>
> On 10/7/05, Ramon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > we want to join the market to make the price cheaper but we have to hurdle
> > the doe requirement to pass the standard. we are short of funds to pay for
> > the analysis and we're still saving. we have sought the help of DOST to
> have
> > our CME analysed. of course i'm not sure if our product will pass. if it
> > does, rest assured we will bring the price down so more people can enjoy
> > using CME.
> > -
> > as you can see we have a few friends with whom we can exchange
> > information and perhaps "network" together.  My timetable is something
> > like 1-2yrs before I can get started -
> >
> > What kind of funding are you thinking about by the way?
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Mon
> >
>
>
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>

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Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

Hello Robert

>Sorry all, I have to stand by my statement.  Attached is a list of 
>the top 20 wars in terms of military dead sonce WW1.
>
>1  20,000,000  Second World War1937-45
>2  8,500,000   First World War 1914-18
>3  1,200,000   Korean War  1950-53
>4  1,200,000   Chinese Civil War   1945-49
>5  1,200,000   Vietnam War 1965-73
>6  850,000 Iran-Iraq War   1980-88
>7  800,000 Russian Civil War   1918-21
>8  400,000 Chinese Civil War   1927-37
>9  385,000 French Indochina1945-54
>10 200,000 Mexican Revolution  1911-20
>11 200,000 Spanish Civil War   1936-39
>12 160,000 French-Algerian War 1954-62
>13 150,000 Afghanistan 1980-89
>14 130,000 Russo-Japanese War  1904-05
>15 100,000 Riffian War 1921-26
>16 100,000 First Sudanese Civil War1956-72
>17 100,000 Russo-Polish War1919-20
>18 100,000 Biafran War 1967-70
>19 90,000  Chaco War   1932-35
>20 75,000  Abyssinian War  1935-36
>
>Regards,
>
>Robert

Hm. Paltry list. I think you're standing on a lot of thin air. You 
left these out, for instance - Bill Blum's little collection, or part 
of it:

1. China - 1945 to 1960s: Was Mao Tse-tung just paranoid?
 2. Italy - 1947-1948: Free elections, Hollywood style
 3. Greece - 1947 to early 1950s: From cradle of democracy to client state
 4. The Philippines - 1940s and 1950s: America's oldest colony
 5. Korea - 1945-1953: Was it all that it appeared to be?
 6. Albania - 1949-1953: The proper English spy
 7. Eastern Europe - 1948-1956: Operation Splinter Factor
 8. Germany - 1950s: Everything from juvenile delinquency to terrorism
 9. Iran - 1953: Making it safe for the King of Kings
10. Guatemala - 1953-1954: While the world watched
11. Costa Rica - Mid-1950s: Trying to topple an ally - Part 1
12. Syria - 1956-1957: Purchasing a new government
13. Middle East - 1957-1958: The Eisenhower Doctrine claims another 
backyard for America
14. Indonesia - 1957-1958: War and pornography
15. Western Europe - 1950s and 1960s: Fronts within fronts within fronts
16. British Guiana - 1953-1964: The CIA's international labor mafia
17. Soviet Union - Late 1940s to 1960s: From spy planes to book publishing
18. Italy - 1950s to 1970s: Supporting the Cardinal's orphans and 
techno-fascism
19. Vietnam - 1950-1973: The Hearts and Minds Circus
20. Cambodia - 1955-1973: Prince Sihanouk walks the high-wire of neutralism
21. Laos - 1957-1973: L'Armée Clandestine
22. Haiti - 1959-1963: The Marines land, again
23. Guatemala - 1960: One good coup deserves another
24. France/Algeria - 1960s: L'état, c'est la CIA
25. Ecuador - 1960-1963: A text book of dirty tricks
26. The Congo - 1960-1964: The assassination of Patrice Lumumba
27. Brazil - 1961-1964: Introducing the marvelous new world of death squads
28. Peru - 1960-1965: Fort Bragg moves to the jungle
29. Dominican Republic - 1960-1966: Saving democracy from communism 
by getting rid of   democracy
30. Cuba - 1959 to 1980s: The unforgivable revolution
31. Indonesia - 1965: Liquidating President Sukarno ... and 500,000 others
East Timor - 1975: And 200,000 more
32. Ghana - 1966: Kwame Nkrumah steps out of line
33. Uruguay - 1964-1970: Torture -- as American as apple pie
34. Chile - 1964-1973: A hammer and sickle stamped on your child's forehead
35. Greece - 1964-1974: "Fuck your Parliament and your Constitution," said
the President of the United States
36. Bolivia - 1964-1975: Tracking down Che Guevara in the land of coup d'etat
37. Guatemala - 1962 to 1980s: A less publicized "final solution"
38. Costa Rica - 1970-1971: Trying to topple an ally -- Part 2
39. Iraq - 1972-1975: Covert action should not be confused with missionary work
40. Australia - 1973-1975: Another free election bites the dust
41. Angola - 1975 to 1980s: The Great Powers Poker Game
42. Zaire - 1975-1978: Mobutu and the CIA, a marriage made in heaven
43. Jamaica - 1976-1980: Kissinger's ultimatum
44. Seychelles - 1979-1981: Yet another area of great strategic importance
45. Grenada - 1979-1984: Lying -- one of the few growth industries in 
Washington
46. Morocco - 1983: A video nasty
47. Suriname - 1982-1984: Once again, the Cuban bogeyman
48. Libya - 1981-1989: Ronald Reagan meets his match
49. Nicaragua - 1981-1990: Destabilization in slow motion
50. Panama - 1969-1991: Double-crossing our drug supplier
51. Bulgaria 1990/Albania 1991: Teaching communists what democracy is all about
52. Iraq - 1990-1991: Desert holocaust
53. Afghanistan - 1979-1992: America's Jihad
54. El Salvador - 1980-1994: Human rights, Washington style
55. Haiti - 1986-1994: Who will rid me of this turbulent priest?
56. The American Empire - 1992 to present
http://members.aol.com/bblum6/Ame

[Biofuel] emulsia help

2005-10-07 Thread golan & michal




Hay
Just 
joined the biodiesel world and this group as well.
I’m 
from Israel & my name is Golan.
 
Just 
mixed my first 100-liter batch.
  I use 
electric pump about 16 liter a minute
 & 2.5 
kw    heater.
I 
preformed quality test after 24 hours and got 4-5 millimeter   white layer 
In-between the biodiesel and the water.
As 
well the biodiesel   wasn’t 
clear.
I 
reheated the tank again to 52 deg C  

And 
mixed it with 10% methanol and 3.5 gram of lye per liter of oil.
Mixed it for an hour.
Any 
way I took samples after 20 and 40 min.
I 
saw the biodiesel was darker then in the first mix and an extra very thin layer 
nylon like appeared on top of the biodiesel does any one knows what that layer 
is and what is there to do 
All 
the best 
Golan
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[Biofuel] Computer Fuel Injection and ethanol questions

2005-10-07 Thread Thomas Mountain

In using ethanol in autos and trucks with 'modern" computerized fuel
injection systems are there any problems to anticipate? I understand that
many new gasoline cars and trucks can run on 85% ethanol, or a 5.5 to 1
ethanol to gasoline mix. Is it possible to "modify" such systems to run on
100% ethanol?
Is it possible to run pure ethanol in older fuel injection systems that are
computer controlled?
I know that in much older, carburatuer systems, it is mainly a matter of
main and idle jet modification and maybe some timing adjustments, but for
gasoline fuel injection systems is there somewhere to find out what can be
done technically for ethanol use?
selam,
tom 

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Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message


Sorry all, I have to stand by my statement.  Attached is a list of the top 20 
wars in terms of military dead sonce WW1.

1  20,000,000   Second World War1937-45
2   8,500,000   First World War 1914-18
3   1,200,000   Korean War  1950-53
4   1,200,000   Chinese Civil War   1945-49
5   1,200,000   Vietnam War 1965-73
6   850,000 Iran-Iraq War   1980-88
7   800,000 Russian Civil War   1918-21
8   400,000 Chinese Civil War   1927-37
9   385,000 French Indochina1945-54
10  200,000 Mexican Revolution  1911-20
11  200,000 Spanish Civil War   1936-39
12  160,000 French-Algerian War 1954-62
13  150,000 Afghanistan 1980-89
14  130,000 Russo-Japanese War  1904-05
15  100,000 Riffian War 1921-26
16  100,000 First Sudanese Civil War1956-72
17  100,000 Russo-Polish War1919-20
18  100,000 Biafran War 1967-70
19  90,000  Chaco War   1932-35
20  75,000  Abyssinian War  1935-36

Regards,

Robert



-- Original Message --
From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Date:  Sat, 8 Oct 2005 02:12:35 +0900

>>Sorry...need more coffee...previous post should read..."Europe has 
>>plunged every generation into war WITHOUT US help..."
>
>Except this generation and the last one, which the US have plunged 
>into war all over the world all by itself, though they haven't been 
>the only ones it's true. I think you got it more right the first time.
>
>Best wishes
>
>Keith
>
>
>
>>Robert
>>
>>
>>-- Original Message --
>>From: "radema" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>Date:  Fri,  7 Oct 2005 06:36:37 -0600
>> >
>> >
>> >With all due respect,  The USA is a highly visible consumer. 
>>Their arrogance and "might is right" policies are a natural target. 
>>We would be remiss to forget their considerable humanitarian 
>>contribution (no not war).  Europe has plunged every generation into 
>>war with US help.  Not only is the US an engine for profits, but 
>>their trust laws are far stricter than Japan (MITI), China, Middle 
>>East, South America, SE Asia, Balkans, or the EU.  When the new 
>>world order takes place - and I agree it will as manufacturing 
>>capacity moves offshore - we will see super-power consumers (China, 
>>India) that DO NOT HAVE trust laws.
>> >
>> >Robert
>> >
>> >-- Original Message --
>> >From: Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>> >Date:  Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:58:26 +0200
>> >
>> >>
>> >>Hi Tom and Bede,
>> >>
>> >>Maybe the coming oil crises will be a blessing
>> >>for our earth. Because the moment oil is no loner
>> >>available, we have to produce fuel and plastics
>> >>etc. from other sources. If all playing on a
>> >>level field, the possibilities are more equal and
>> >>the wealth will be more distributed. US had the
>> >>advantage to be the first oil economy and that
>> >>the large oil resources have been in less
>> >>populated countries, which could be "developed" by US interests.
>> >>
>> >>Next step will be a development of the coal
>> >>resources and US, Russia and China have maybe 70%
>> >>of known resources and this time US will not be
>> >>able to manipulate. Since the coal will be
>> >>expensive, the rest of the world will be
>> >>competing with renewable agriculture based
>> >>alternatives on more equal terms. To have any
>> >>kind of possibilities to survive, coal has to
>> >>carry large cost for sequestering of polluting
>> >>chemicals and gases. This especially if the
>> >>hydrogen economy becomes a reality. The handling
>> >>of nuclear waste will be a minor problem,
>> >>compared with what the future generations will face
>> >>
>> >>The wealth and powers to be, will have a totally
>> >>different structure than today and none of us can
>> >>really imagine how the future will look. We will
>> >>not participate in this future, but our attitudes
>> >>and work of today, will be of utmost importance.
>> >>It is now that we can effect the outcome and if
>> >>we do not take Global warming and other things
>> >>very serious, our future generations will carry
>> >>the punishment. It is no risks of that we can be
>> >>to cautious and careful, because it will be a
>> >>possibility to sustain the future if we follow
>> >>this principles anyway. The world is probably on
>> >>the edge and it does not take much to tip the balance towards disasters.
>> >>
>> >>Nothing will be able to solve without a strict
>> >>energy efficiency, which also will be the best
>> >>economical regime. It is amazing that US is using
>> >>3 times and Canada 4 times more energ

[Biofuel] emulsion help

2005-10-07 Thread golan & michal





Hay
Just 
joined the biodiesel world and this group as well.
I’m 
from Israel & my name is Golan.
 
Just 
mixed my first 100-liter batch.
  I use 
electric pump about 16 liter a minute
 & 2.5 
kw    heater.
I 
preformed quality test (150 cc water &150 cc biodiesel shaked toghether in 
ahalf aliter jar)  after 24 hours and got 4-5 millimeter   white layer 
In-between the biodiesel and the water.
As 
well the biodiesel   wasn’t 
clear.
I 
reheated the tank again to 52 deg C  

And 
mixed it with 10% methanol and 3.5 gram of lye per liter of oil.
Mixed it for an hour.
Any 
way I took samples after 20 and 40 min.
I 
saw the biodiesel was darker then in the first mix and an extra very thin layer 
nylon like appeared on top of the biodiesel .
24 
hours later preformed another quality test no spreration at all for aday and 
ahalf all ready it stays awaitish fluid. 
does 
any one knows what that layer is and what is there to do. 
All 
the best 
Golan
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Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo charged diesel

2005-10-07 Thread Doug Foskey

There ia an Australian Peugeot (and other French cars) list: Aussiefrogs

 I suggest you consider joining, as there are some very knowledgeable buffs on 
the list.

regards Doug
(Peugeot 405SRDT: great car!)

On Saturday 08 October 2005 3:12, Keith Addison wrote:
> >October 7, 2005
> >
> >Hi everyone
> >
> >After three months of wishy washy thinking and anxiety over money to
> >invest in my biodiesel project, this very moment my dream has been
> >realized. I am now the proud owner of a 1981 Peugeot 505 four cylinder
> >turbo charged diesel vehicle! I know what you are thinking,
>
> I'm thinking Bravo! Well done! Good for you! Maybe I'm not the only one.
> See:
>
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_404.html
> The best car in the world
>
> :-)
>
> A 505 is just a 404 in drag, they're great! A friend of mine drove
> one from London to Johannesburg, way back before they invented roads
> and stuff. Best of good luck with it Brian, I hope you get all the
> problems licked.
>
> Keith
>
> >" What's a
> >American "good ol' boy' doing with a Peugeot?" Well, it is a long
> >story, the short version is: If we live our lives in a spiritually
> >wholesome and environmentally friendly fashion,  we can expect good
> >things to come to us. We don't need much and we have patience. Anyway,
> >I said this is the short version right? We now have this car sitting
> >here at the Ranch in northeastern New Mexico. It has only one
> >mechanical problem that I can see; It is very hard to start, when it
> >finally does it bellows blue-white smoke, and the coolant lines slowly
> >begin to pressurize. The radiator hoses balloon up, very scary and we
> >shut it down before they blow. At first glance it looks like a leaking
> >head gasket. It is now sitting in front of my little workshop and I am
> >so excited to finally have a car that I can make my own biodiesel for.
> >Nevertheless, my rash days are past and I am content to ask first
> >before I tear into anything mechanically. I ask for information.  I am
> >relatively new to Biofuels, but I do have a fine set of Mechanics
> >tools, much updated from the days long ago when I was a factory
> >trained VW mechanic.  Please don't give me the negative perspective.
> >If you do, I can take it. But I still have that wonderful glow  a guy
> >gets when he gets a new car to refurbish.
> >
> >How's that line go? "Sing me the bad news!"
> >
> >
> >
> >So far I have zero cash investment in this really cute little car. I
> >have three Mercedes gas powered monsters which have been steadily
> >moving closer to the ranch dump. I toyed with the idea of buying a
> >1982 300 Turbo Sedan that a friend has offered for $2000.00. I don't
> >like the body style,  too heavy, and we couldn't afford it anyway.
> >This Peugeot is almost 1000 pounds lighter than my 1980 480SE. And
> >damn, did I say it is sleek and in mint condition? So yeah that's the
> >good news. Anybody out there have any experience with these? Looks
> >like a very clean engine, but that may be because the radiator already
> >washed it off with a steam bath. I have extended experience with
> >petrol vehicles.  My tools are metric and I love to read first then
> >spin nuts after I at least think I understand.
> >
> >
> >
> >Diesel engines, this is only my second. I won't say what I did to the
> >first one. I intend to make this motor sing again! So, I have heard of
> >carbon buildup in the cylinders causing issues in dino-diesel motors.
> >Any ideas? Things I could check. I suppose checking the compression
> >through the spark plug holes is out of the question, lol. I will be
> >looking for the factory service manual, unless it is written in French
> >of course. Nah, I have factory service literature on the Benz and it
> >is not in German. See how wishy washy I have become? Maybe it is the
> >fog this morning, yeah fog in New Mexico, go figure. They have fog in
> >France right?
> >
> >
> >
> >So how did my bio-diesel processing chemicals and WVO collecting go
> >this week? Not well, physically. I talked it up pretty good, whatever
> >that is worth. I think I know what I need to find for the test
> >batches. A couple of little bottles of Heet (methanol).  Blue or
> >yellow? There is a bit of confusion in the biofuel group about this,
> >and a jar of Red Devil drain opener (lye.) A five gallon can for
> >transporting the WVO back to the ranch and a 12 volt pump for filling
> >my container at the rear of the Mc Donald's. Oh, and I have to ask
> >Vince, the owner of the local McDonald's, if is ok to use some of the
> >WVO from his business.
> >
> >
> >
> >Ok, I am so excited about our new diesel that I am totally torn
> >between writing and thinking about it and going out into the fog and
> >startingÖ something, anythingÖ How about learning?
> >
> >Sincerely, Brian Rodgers
>
> ___
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> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablel

Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 Cooling System Problems...

Fantastic Michael.
Thank you so much for the advice.
Simple things often cause people a lot of trouble, while we sit
thinking, " Well I 'm screwed if it is this or that." Better to begin
at the beginning. Your advice is perfect for me. Although I was a
highly skilled auto mechanic twenty years ago doesn't mean I remember
all the little tricks. Yes that was a long time ago in a galaxy far
away. One thing I have going for me is I still trouble shoot for a
living, computers now and electronics for ten years.

At best, with vehicles I have become a tinker. Because of the energy
crisis I have recently started working at home three days per week. I
am loving it too. Now instead of worrying whether my customers can
afford to give me enough extra cash to drive to town five days per
week I can do more things for myself and family right here at home. Of
course the biodiesel and now this Peugeot which I understand from the
wikipedia once I get it running efficiently may attain  45 mpg!

Yeah I'm lucky.
Still, I would rather trouble shoot than start pulling components off.

Back to the issues with the car.
I did check the oil and no emulsion. I was glad to see clean but black
oil. Typical for a diesel I understand.

No oil in the coolant either.
Haven't found the therostat yet, but I think it will be at the coolant
outlet on the head, maybe inside the hose.

No owners manual in the glove box was disappointing. In the trunk I
found twenty years worth of service invoices. I didn't find one for a
top end rebuild but the head is marked with paint pen like it may have
been off recently.
Not to worry I know the saying, "assumption is the mother of all fuckups."

Truly, thanks
Brian Rodgers

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Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo charged diesel vehicle!?

2005-10-07 Thread Juan Boveda

Hello Brian.
I drive a 405 GLD with the smaller 1.9 L diesel. Your problems sounds 
similar to any water cooled engine, starts with rust in the small holes of 
the water passages, local overheating, head gasket burning and combustion 
gasses leaking to the water jaket and built up the pressure in water 
cooling system that you can see because the radiator hoses balloon up. When 
the engine is turn of the water leakes to the cilinders and if it is a 
small amount the engine starts with difficulties and water comes out as hot 
water mist and white steam sometimes spiting a mixture of water and carbon 
at the start.
Most likely you have encountered some oil floating with carbon dust in the 
radiator of the cooling system, it is coming from the combustion chamber 
and oil system.
Peugeot spare parts from France are expensive but in general the 
Argentinians spare parts for that engine brand are usually less expensive 
(at least here in Paraguay) becuase for some Peugeot engines they have 
produced spare parts in Argentina and they built Peugeots there since a 
long time ago.
Have you checked the Argentinians spare parts representative there if there 
are any in your area?
I hope this helps.
Regards.

Juan Boveda
Paraguay

-Mensaje original-
De: Brian Rodgers [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Enviado el: Viernes 7 de Octubre de 2005 12:06 PM
Para:   Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Asunto: Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo charged 
diesel  vehicle!?


October 7, 2005

Hi everyone

After three months of wishy washy thinking and anxiety over money to
invest in my biodiesel project, this very moment my dream has been
realized. I am now the proud owner of a 1981 Peugeot 505 four cylinder
turbo charged diesel vehicle! I know what you are thinking, " What's a
American "good ol' boy' doing with a Peugeot?" Well, it is a long
story, the short version is: If we live our lives in a spiritually
wholesome and environmentally friendly fashion,  we can expect good
things to come to us. We don't need much and we have patience. Anyway,
I said this is the short version right? We now have this car sitting
here at the Ranch in northeastern New Mexico. It has only one
mechanical problem that I can see; It is very hard to start, when it
finally does it bellows blue-white smoke, and the coolant lines slowly
begin to pressurize. The radiator hoses balloon up, very scary and we
shut it down before they blow. At first glance it looks like a leaking
head gasket. It is now sitting in front of my little workshop and I am
so excited to finally have a car that I can make my own biodiesel for.
Nevertheless, my rash days are past and I am content to ask first
before I tear into anything mechanically. I ask for information.  I am
relatively new to Biofuels, but I do have a fine set of Mechanics
tools, much updated from the days long ago when I was a factory
trained VW mechanic.  Please don't give me the negative perspective.
If you do, I can take it. But I still have that wonderful glow  a guy
gets when he gets a new car to refurbish.

How's that line go? "Sing me the bad news!"



So far I have zero cash investment in this really cute little car. I
have three Mercedes gas powered monsters which have been steadily
moving closer to the ranch dump. I toyed with the idea of buying a
1982 300 Turbo Sedan that a friend has offered for $2000.00. I don't
like the body style,  too heavy, and we couldn't afford it anyway.
This Peugeot is almost 1000 pounds lighter than my 1980 480SE. And
damn, did I say it is sleek and in mint condition? So yeah that's the
good news. Anybody out there have any experience with these? Looks
like a very clean engine, but that may be because the radiator already
washed it off with a steam bath. I have extended experience with
petrol vehicles.  My tools are metric and I love to read first then
spin nuts after I at least think I understand.



Diesel engines, this is only my second. I won't say what I did to the
first one. I intend to make this motor sing again! So, I have heard of
carbon buildup in the cylinders causing issues in dino-diesel motors.
Any ideas? Things I could check. I suppose checking the compression
through the spark plug holes is out of the question, lol. I will be
looking for the factory service manual, unless it is written in French
of course. Nah, I have factory service literature on the Benz and it
is not in German. See how wishy washy I have become? Maybe it is the
fog this morning, yeah fog in New Mexico, go figure. They have fog in
France right?



So how did my bio-diesel processing chemicals and WVO collecting go
this week? Not well, physically. I talked it up pretty good, whatever
that is worth. I think I know what I need to find for the test
batches. A couple of little bottles of Heet (methanol).  Blue or
yellow? There is a bit of confusion in the biofuel group about this,
and a jar of Red Devil drain opener (lye.) A five gallon can for
transporting the WVO back to the ranch and a

Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo charged diesel vehicle!?

Wow, too cool, you all are.
I knew I was in the right place to learn.
Dammit all, there is so much to learn.
Thanks Juan, I was hoping there was something I could do right away
before I find a service manual. Flushing the coolant is a great idea.
I will pull off some of the worse looking hoses and take a look inside
for blockage. A friend and I were looking for the thermostat which
seems like it should be near the outlet of the head but we were unable
to see anything that looked like one.I will go out there to the shop
and look again at that hose which is ballooning when the engine is
running. I have a feeling the thermostat is inside the hose because
there is an odd size reduction on the outlet from the head. I am a
book person, well tech books anyway. So, let me ask you (all) this:
Does anyone have the service manual for the Peugeot 505 diesel?

Next> Dammit again Keith, heehee. You have so much going on with your
website. Sorry, somehow I missed the "Best car in the world" section
completely. Just goes to show; I must be living my life right. First I
found this list and then I switched away from thinking ethanol to
doing biodiesel and a whole new world opens up for me. How in the heck
did I manage to scavenge such a fine diesel vehicle completely
unaware? Thank you for everything, people.

Now I know I can make this little sweetie sing again. Also I joined
the Peugeot yahoo group. I just gotta find the books for this gem.

Again, I am back to  http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_404.html
Reading, reading and learning.
Great site Keith.
I am soon to be a real biodiesel man.

Sincerely,
Brian Rodgers

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Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo charged diesel vehicle!?

2005-10-07 Thread des

Congratulations on the new car!

 From my experience, if I were in your shoes, and looking at a foggy 
day, I'd be thinking twice about mixing my methoxide today, the NaOH 
will turn to liquid before you can blink, drawing water out of the air. 
  (That might clear out the fog)

Instead, I guess I'd be getting into the cooling system of the new toy, 
check to see that the thermostat is opening properly at the temperature 
it is supposed to, (this can be done with the cap off the radiator in 
most any car I've ever been under the hood of, you can see the water 
start to flow when the thermostat opens and allows the water pump to 
circulate water through the radiator.)  This method can let you know if 
your radiator is in need of flushing too.  The next step, if you see no 
water flowing, would be to remove the thermostat, and drop it in hot 
water.  Heat the water, preferably with a thermometer in the water, and 
when the water reaches the temperature stamped into the thermostat, 
check the thermostat, and see if it has opened.  If it has, you can 
reinstall it, but know that you might need a new gasket, or 
alternatively, "blue glue" to make a new gasket.

Then there are the possibilities that the water pump isn't up to par 
anymore, or that there is blockage either in the engine, the radiator, 
or both.

One could assume that pressure buildup in the cooling system is from 
over temperature, but There's also a chance that your fluids aren't 
staying where they're supposed to.  Generally you'd see water in the 
oil, but I can imagine that it could go the other direction too, but 
either of these conditions can be seen by looking at the dipstick (see 
mayonnaise?) or in the radiator. (see oil floating at the top?)

Anything beyond these simple examinations and diagnostics would leave me 
in the dark, unless new clues became obvious while looking through the 
above steps.

Good luck with it, and may all your repairs be the cheapest and easiest 
fix it could be!

doug swanson



-- 
All generalizations are false.  Including this one.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software.
No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein.
All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits.

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[Biofuel] Global Rich List

2005-10-07 Thread Gustl Steiner-Zehender

Hallo Folks,

An interesting site:

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Gives one pause.

Happy Happy,

Gustl/Aug/Del
-- 
Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns.

We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails.

The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, 
soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, 
without signposts.  
C. S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters"

Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, 
daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht 
gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden.

Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't
hear the music.  
George Carlin

The best portion of a good man's life -
His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love.
William Wordsworth



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Re: [Biofuel] W @ NED in DC - 10-6-2005

2005-10-07 Thread KinsleyForPrez08

I'm glad you liked it.  I think CNN has audio of the speech.  That is I 
first found the transcripts.
- Original Message - 
From: "Joe Street" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 2:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] W @ NED in DC - 10-6-2005


> ROFL
> ROFL
> ROFL
>
> Excellent Earl! Are there audio clips available?  I could use more audio
> for my next protest song.
>
> Joe 


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Re: [Biofuel] atkins

2005-10-07 Thread JJJN

Thank you Arden I must confer.  I would also like to add that if we look 
at people in an evolutionary sense we may find some interesting 
parallels as to why some folks do VERY well on this type of diet and 
others not.  Consider those peoples that have for many more centuries 
(more than modern science has been around) have lived on a diet as very 
similar to the Adkins (Eskimo, Siberian etc) vs those from warmer 
agricultural areas.  Logically one may make consider that a person whose 
genes reflect one the lower carb evolution would do well while the other 
type would suffer.  Just an observation as I am not a scientist but I do 
have a very northern very deep low carb physiology and when I went back 
to what would be the diet of my ancestors I lost 40 lbs for good and my 
health has improved radically and I love the diet I adopted for the last 
three years.  It works for me.

My 2 cents worth

Wisdom to all.

Arden B. Norder wrote:

>My good bio-friends,
>
>I feel I must speak out in defence of Dr. Atkins.
>
>It so obvious, by the tone of the comments here, that very, very few have
>actually read his book. I have seen a couple of TV probrams where the Atkins
>diet is put under fire. What they have failed to do in all cases isexplain that
>there are 4 phases to the Atkins way of life.
>
>My wife and I have adopted the Atkins way of life and we have lost 12 and 13
>kilos respectively. I have to say - I have never felt so good. We have been 
>busy
>with our new life style for 3 months now and we are almost to our goal weights
>and are currently in phase 2. I hvae only 1 kilo to go and then on to phase 3.
>My colestorol from 9 down to 7.5. Yes that was high and it can be even lower 
>but
>apparently I have been blessed with the heart and collestorol troubles from my
>mother and her father and his father. thus, it's genetic. I am under my doctors
>servaillence. I was not overweight. I am 2 metres, medium build and weighed 94
>kgs. I am still 2 metres and weigh now 81 kgs. I have an abundance of energy 
>and
>honestly speeking - have never felt better.
>
>Please, educate yourself before you use your key-board and knock a good thing. 
> 
>
>Have any of you ever considered what a low-fat diet does to your system?? Yet 
>we
>accept that as being OK. Hmmm.
>
>There was here mention of no scientific proof and/or no references - read the
>book and you wil see the pages and pages and pages of references. His
>
>I, unlike the low-fatters, do not walk around with a hungry feeling all day
>long, and in a body that tries to store every extra calorie because it thinks 
>it
>it is starving.
>
>READ THE BOOK!!! Let's open our minds.
>
>Greetings from the Netherlands
>
>Arden
>
>
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>
>  
>

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Re: [Biofuel] W @ NED in DC - 10-6-2005

2005-10-07 Thread Joe Street

ROFL
ROFL
ROFL

Excellent Earl! Are there audio clips available?  I could use more audio 
for my next protest song.

Joe

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>Yesterday, our esteemed Imperial leader, W, gave a speech at a National 
>Endowment for Democracy event that attempted to both alleviate our fears and 
>cultivate our terror in order to garner support for his administration's 
>illogical foreign and domestic security policies. Below are the transcripts 
>from his speech, courtesy of the NED 
>(http://www.ned.org/events/oct0605-Bush.html). Because of W's tendency to 
>use double-speak, I offer translations for W's passages, preceded by the 
>phrase "(Translation)."
>
>Earl Kinsley
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>--
>"That government is best which governs least."  --  Thomas Paine
>--
>Check out my latest blogs at http://KinsleyForPrez08.blogspot.com
>
>--
>"Thank you all. (Applause.) Thank you all. Please be seated. (Applause.) 
>Thank you for the warm welcome. I'm honored once again to be with the 
>supporters of the National Endowment for Democracy. Since the day President 
>Ronald Reagan set out the vision for this Endowment, the world has seen the 
>swiftest advance of democratic institutions in history. And Americans are 
>proud to have played our role in this great story."
>(Translation) Welcome, fellow imperial nation-builders! I am happy to report 
>that the puppet mastering plans begun by Emperor Ronald the Jelly Belly have 
>been succeeding as planned. You should be proud of yourselves for the role 
>you played in placing "Americanized" governments in many second- and 
>third-world countries.
>"Our nation stood guard on tense borders; we spoke for the rights of 
>dissidents and the hopes of exile; we aided the rise of new democracies on 
>the ruins of tyranny. And all the cost and sacrifice of that struggle has 
>been worth it, because, from Latin America to Europe to Asia, we've gained 
>the peace that freedom brings."
>
>(Translation) We have proved time and time again that bigger guns and better 
>technology always wins, regardless of whether we are right or wrong. We've 
>managed to give many foreign citizens the ultimate form of peace and 
>freedom -- death.
>
>"In this new century, freedom is once again assaulted by enemies determined 
>to roll back generations of democratic progress. Once again, we're 
>responding to a global campaign of fear with a global campaign of freedom. 
>And once again, we will see freedom's victory. (Applause.) "
>
>(Translation) In less than three years, my term will end and we face the 
>possibility of a Democrat in the White House. We must prevent this at all 
>costs to secure our freedom to steal other's liberties.
>
>"Vin, I want to thank you for inviting me back. And thank you for the short 
>introduction. (Laughter.) I appreciate Carl Gershman. I want to welcome 
>former Congressman Dick Gephardt, who is a board member of the National 
>Endowment for Democracy. It's good to see you, Dick. And I appreciate Chris 
>Cox, who is the Chairman of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, and 
>a board member for the National Endowment of Democracy, for being here, as 
>well. I want to thank all the other board members."
>
>(Translation) Vin, it is my turn to speak now, so sit down and shut up. 
>(Ha-ha-ha.) Let's see how many names I can throw out as a token of my 
>appreciation for being here -- Carl, Dick (who let the Dem in here?) and 
>Chris.
>
>"I appreciate the Secretary of State, Condi Rice, who has joined us --  
>alongside her, Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld. Thank you all for being 
>here. I'm proud, as well, that the newly sworn-in Chairman of the Joint 
>Chiefs, the first Marine ever to hold that position, is with us today --  
>General Peter Pace. (Applause.) I thank the members of the Diplomatic Corps 
>who are here, as well."
>
>(Translation) Let me introduce my posse that will help us achieve our global 
>dominance - Condi, Donny and Peter Pan (well he is dressed in green). I also 
>want to recognize all of the minions who propagate our message of, "What out 
>for the United States - We're coming your way."
>
>"Recently our country observed the fourth anniversary of a great evil, and 
>looked back on a great turning point in our history. We still remember a 
>proud city covered in smoke and ashes, a fire across the Potomac, and 
>passengers who spent their final moments on Earth fighting the enemy. We 
>still remember the men who rejoiced in every death, and Americans in uniform 
>rising to duty. And we remember the calling that came to us on that day, and 
>continues to this hour: We will confront this mortal danger to all humanity. 
>We will not tire, or rest, until the war on terror is won. (Applause.)"
>
>(Translation) Remember when I did that bullhorn thing in the rubble of the 
>WTC? I looked really cool! (Clap-clap-clap)
>
>"The images and experience of Sep

[Biofuel] W @ NED in DC - 10-6-2005

2005-10-07 Thread KinsleyForPrez08

Yesterday, our esteemed Imperial leader, W, gave a speech at a National 
Endowment for Democracy event that attempted to both alleviate our fears and 
cultivate our terror in order to garner support for his administration's 
illogical foreign and domestic security policies. Below are the transcripts 
from his speech, courtesy of the NED 
(http://www.ned.org/events/oct0605-Bush.html). Because of W's tendency to 
use double-speak, I offer translations for W's passages, preceded by the 
phrase "(Translation)."

Earl Kinsley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
"That government is best which governs least."  --  Thomas Paine
--
Check out my latest blogs at http://KinsleyForPrez08.blogspot.com

--
"Thank you all. (Applause.) Thank you all. Please be seated. (Applause.) 
Thank you for the warm welcome. I'm honored once again to be with the 
supporters of the National Endowment for Democracy. Since the day President 
Ronald Reagan set out the vision for this Endowment, the world has seen the 
swiftest advance of democratic institutions in history. And Americans are 
proud to have played our role in this great story."
(Translation) Welcome, fellow imperial nation-builders! I am happy to report 
that the puppet mastering plans begun by Emperor Ronald the Jelly Belly have 
been succeeding as planned. You should be proud of yourselves for the role 
you played in placing "Americanized" governments in many second- and 
third-world countries.
"Our nation stood guard on tense borders; we spoke for the rights of 
dissidents and the hopes of exile; we aided the rise of new democracies on 
the ruins of tyranny. And all the cost and sacrifice of that struggle has 
been worth it, because, from Latin America to Europe to Asia, we've gained 
the peace that freedom brings."

(Translation) We have proved time and time again that bigger guns and better 
technology always wins, regardless of whether we are right or wrong. We've 
managed to give many foreign citizens the ultimate form of peace and 
freedom -- death.

"In this new century, freedom is once again assaulted by enemies determined 
to roll back generations of democratic progress. Once again, we're 
responding to a global campaign of fear with a global campaign of freedom. 
And once again, we will see freedom's victory. (Applause.) "

(Translation) In less than three years, my term will end and we face the 
possibility of a Democrat in the White House. We must prevent this at all 
costs to secure our freedom to steal other's liberties.

"Vin, I want to thank you for inviting me back. And thank you for the short 
introduction. (Laughter.) I appreciate Carl Gershman. I want to welcome 
former Congressman Dick Gephardt, who is a board member of the National 
Endowment for Democracy. It's good to see you, Dick. And I appreciate Chris 
Cox, who is the Chairman of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, and 
a board member for the National Endowment of Democracy, for being here, as 
well. I want to thank all the other board members."

(Translation) Vin, it is my turn to speak now, so sit down and shut up. 
(Ha-ha-ha.) Let's see how many names I can throw out as a token of my 
appreciation for being here -- Carl, Dick (who let the Dem in here?) and 
Chris.

"I appreciate the Secretary of State, Condi Rice, who has joined us --  
alongside her, Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld. Thank you all for being 
here. I'm proud, as well, that the newly sworn-in Chairman of the Joint 
Chiefs, the first Marine ever to hold that position, is with us today --  
General Peter Pace. (Applause.) I thank the members of the Diplomatic Corps 
who are here, as well."

(Translation) Let me introduce my posse that will help us achieve our global 
dominance - Condi, Donny and Peter Pan (well he is dressed in green). I also 
want to recognize all of the minions who propagate our message of, "What out 
for the United States - We're coming your way."

"Recently our country observed the fourth anniversary of a great evil, and 
looked back on a great turning point in our history. We still remember a 
proud city covered in smoke and ashes, a fire across the Potomac, and 
passengers who spent their final moments on Earth fighting the enemy. We 
still remember the men who rejoiced in every death, and Americans in uniform 
rising to duty. And we remember the calling that came to us on that day, and 
continues to this hour: We will confront this mortal danger to all humanity. 
We will not tire, or rest, until the war on terror is won. (Applause.)"

(Translation) Remember when I did that bullhorn thing in the rubble of the 
WTC? I looked really cool! (Clap-clap-clap)

"The images and experience of September the 11th are unique for Americans. 
Yet the evil of that morning has reappeared on other days, in other 
places -- in Mombasa, and Casablanca, and Riyadh, and Jakarta, and Istanbul, 
and Madrid, and Beslan, and Taba, and Netany

[Biofuel] Peugeot 505 Cooling System Problems...

2005-10-07 Thread lendzian_michael

Brian,

When you get an old car, never assume that the last guy to turn a 
wrench on it was competent.  (Sorry to be negative! Yes, been there, 
down that!)

It sounds like you have an over pressure issue in the engine caused one 
of several things.

Check that the coolant is good, buy a coolant tester. 

Definately replace the thermostat on the car.  Make sure that the 
thermostat is installed correctly.  

For example, in my Benz shop book, they have the picture wrong on how 
to assemble the thermostat.

Make sure that the parts you are troubling yourself over are the 
correct spec for the car.

Check that thermostat is operating at the correct temperature for the 
car.  Just because it's in/on the car, don't assume that it's OEM.  
Sorry, you've just got to do your homework.

The coolant system has to pressurize to work correctly.  Go over the 
entire cooling system with a fine tooth comb.

Get good quality parts, stay away from the fast food- style auto parts 
places who sell marginal quality parts.  

Just My 2 cents...

-Michael

Michael Lendzian
CINS Network Support Team
Columbus State University
CINS/Center for Commerce & Technology Room 105
706.569.3044 (help desk)

 

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Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo charged diesel vehicle!?

2005-10-07 Thread Zeke Yewdall

Good find!  On the smoke, I'd replace the coolant hoses so you can get
it up to operating temp, and check the glow plugs.It could be
something as simple as a bit of unburned fuel due to being cold...,
and will go way when it's warm.

On 10/7/05, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >October 7, 2005
> >
> >Hi everyone
> >
> >After three months of wishy washy thinking and anxiety over money to
> >invest in my biodiesel project, this very moment my dream has been
> >realized. I am now the proud owner of a 1981 Peugeot 505 four cylinder
> >turbo charged diesel vehicle! I know what you are thinking,
>
> I'm thinking Bravo! Well done! Good for you! Maybe I'm not the only one. See:
>
> http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_404.html
> The best car in the world
>
> :-)
>
> A 505 is just a 404 in drag, they're great! A friend of mine drove
> one from London to Johannesburg, way back before they invented roads
> and stuff. Best of good luck with it Brian, I hope you get all the
> problems licked.
>
> Keith
>
>
>
> >" What's a
> >American "good ol' boy' doing with a Peugeot?" Well, it is a long
> >story, the short version is: If we live our lives in a spiritually
> >wholesome and environmentally friendly fashion,  we can expect good
> >things to come to us. We don't need much and we have patience. Anyway,
> >I said this is the short version right? We now have this car sitting
> >here at the Ranch in northeastern New Mexico. It has only one
> >mechanical problem that I can see; It is very hard to start, when it
> >finally does it bellows blue-white smoke, and the coolant lines slowly
> >begin to pressurize. The radiator hoses balloon up, very scary and we
> >shut it down before they blow. At first glance it looks like a leaking
> >head gasket. It is now sitting in front of my little workshop and I am
> >so excited to finally have a car that I can make my own biodiesel for.
> >Nevertheless, my rash days are past and I am content to ask first
> >before I tear into anything mechanically. I ask for information.  I am
> >relatively new to Biofuels, but I do have a fine set of Mechanics
> >tools, much updated from the days long ago when I was a factory
> >trained VW mechanic.  Please don't give me the negative perspective.
> >If you do, I can take it. But I still have that wonderful glow  a guy
> >gets when he gets a new car to refurbish.
> >
> >How's that line go? "Sing me the bad news!"
> >
> >
> >
> >So far I have zero cash investment in this really cute little car. I
> >have three Mercedes gas powered monsters which have been steadily
> >moving closer to the ranch dump. I toyed with the idea of buying a
> >1982 300 Turbo Sedan that a friend has offered for $2000.00. I don't
> >like the body style,  too heavy, and we couldn't afford it anyway.
> >This Peugeot is almost 1000 pounds lighter than my 1980 480SE. And
> >damn, did I say it is sleek and in mint condition? So yeah that's the
> >good news. Anybody out there have any experience with these? Looks
> >like a very clean engine, but that may be because the radiator already
> >washed it off with a steam bath. I have extended experience with
> >petrol vehicles.  My tools are metric and I love to read first then
> >spin nuts after I at least think I understand.
> >
> >
> >
> >Diesel engines, this is only my second. I won't say what I did to the
> >first one. I intend to make this motor sing again! So, I have heard of
> >carbon buildup in the cylinders causing issues in dino-diesel motors.
> >Any ideas? Things I could check. I suppose checking the compression
> >through the spark plug holes is out of the question, lol. I will be
> >looking for the factory service manual, unless it is written in French
> >of course. Nah, I have factory service literature on the Benz and it
> >is not in German. See how wishy washy I have become? Maybe it is the
> >fog this morning, yeah fog in New Mexico, go figure. They have fog in
> >France right?
> >
> >
> >
> >So how did my bio-diesel processing chemicals and WVO collecting go
> >this week? Not well, physically. I talked it up pretty good, whatever
> >that is worth. I think I know what I need to find for the test
> >batches. A couple of little bottles of Heet (methanol).  Blue or
> >yellow? There is a bit of confusion in the biofuel group about this,
> >and a jar of Red Devil drain opener (lye.) A five gallon can for
> >transporting the WVO back to the ranch and a 12 volt pump for filling
> >my container at the rear of the Mc Donald's. Oh, and I have to ask
> >Vince, the owner of the local McDonald's, if is ok to use some of the
> >WVO from his business.
> >
> >
> >
> >Ok, I am so excited about our new diesel that I am totally torn
> >between writing and thinking about it and going out into the fog and
> >startingÖ something, anythingÖ How about learning?
> >
> >Sincerely, Brian Rodgers
>
>
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailma

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

>Sorry...need more coffee...previous post should read..."Europe has 
>plunged every generation into war WITHOUT US help..."

Except this generation and the last one, which the US have plunged 
into war all over the world all by itself, though they haven't been 
the only ones it's true. I think you got it more right the first time.

Best wishes

Keith



>Robert
>
>
>-- Original Message --
>From: "radema" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Date:  Fri,  7 Oct 2005 06:36:37 -0600
> >
> >
> >With all due respect,  The USA is a highly visible consumer. 
>Their arrogance and "might is right" policies are a natural target. 
>We would be remiss to forget their considerable humanitarian 
>contribution (no not war).  Europe has plunged every generation into 
>war with US help.  Not only is the US an engine for profits, but 
>their trust laws are far stricter than Japan (MITI), China, Middle 
>East, South America, SE Asia, Balkans, or the EU.  When the new 
>world order takes place - and I agree it will as manufacturing 
>capacity moves offshore - we will see super-power consumers (China, 
>India) that DO NOT HAVE trust laws.
> >
> >Robert
> >
> >-- Original Message --
> >From: Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >Date:  Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:58:26 +0200
> >
> >>
> >>Hi Tom and Bede,
> >>
> >>Maybe the coming oil crises will be a blessing
> >>for our earth. Because the moment oil is no loner
> >>available, we have to produce fuel and plastics
> >>etc. from other sources. If all playing on a
> >>level field, the possibilities are more equal and
> >>the wealth will be more distributed. US had the
> >>advantage to be the first oil economy and that
> >>the large oil resources have been in less
> >>populated countries, which could be "developed" by US interests.
> >>
> >>Next step will be a development of the coal
> >>resources and US, Russia and China have maybe 70%
> >>of known resources and this time US will not be
> >>able to manipulate. Since the coal will be
> >>expensive, the rest of the world will be
> >>competing with renewable agriculture based
> >>alternatives on more equal terms. To have any
> >>kind of possibilities to survive, coal has to
> >>carry large cost for sequestering of polluting
> >>chemicals and gases. This especially if the
> >>hydrogen economy becomes a reality. The handling
> >>of nuclear waste will be a minor problem,
> >>compared with what the future generations will face
> >>
> >>The wealth and powers to be, will have a totally
> >>different structure than today and none of us can
> >>really imagine how the future will look. We will
> >>not participate in this future, but our attitudes
> >>and work of today, will be of utmost importance.
> >>It is now that we can effect the outcome and if
> >>we do not take Global warming and other things
> >>very serious, our future generations will carry
> >>the punishment. It is no risks of that we can be
> >>to cautious and careful, because it will be a
> >>possibility to sustain the future if we follow
> >>this principles anyway. The world is probably on
> >>the edge and it does not take much to tip the balance towards disasters.
> >>
> >>Nothing will be able to solve without a strict
> >>energy efficiency, which also will be the best
> >>economical regime. It is amazing that US is using
> >>3 times and Canada 4 times more energy in their
> >>buildings, than Sweden does. This after climate
> >>corrections. With dirt cheap oil, it was
> >>expensive, but with todays oil prices, it has
> >>become very economical. This is also something
> >>that cannot be "occupied by military force and is closer to sustainable.
> >>
> >>Hakan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>At 12:29 07/10/2005, you wrote:
> >>>with the rising cost of oil these will eventually become 
>valuable resources,
> >>>Its also only a matter of time before we start mining our rubbish dumps!
> >>>
> >>>There's also a French company i saw on Beyond
> >>>2000, it had to do with turning tires back into its raw components.
> >>>once again once bought back, it cost more to
> >>>process than the end products where worth.
> >>>-Original Message-
> >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tom Irwin
> >>>Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:07 PM
> >>>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of 
>Packaging/Sending the Message
> >>>
> >>>Hi Hakan and all,
> >>>
> >>>One of the real problems is not having an
> >>>economic system that accounts for the lack of
> >>>degradability or environmental consequences of
> >>>products produced. This is a world wide problem
> >>>not limited to the U.S. More than 10 years ago I
> >>>worked on a research team to make a
> >>>biodegradable plastic. We accomplished this and
> >>>had formulations that worked in most plastic
> >>>processing equipment. Of course, polyethylene

Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo charged diesel vehicle!?

>October 7, 2005
>
>Hi everyone
>
>After three months of wishy washy thinking and anxiety over money to
>invest in my biodiesel project, this very moment my dream has been
>realized. I am now the proud owner of a 1981 Peugeot 505 four cylinder
>turbo charged diesel vehicle! I know what you are thinking,

I'm thinking Bravo! Well done! Good for you! Maybe I'm not the only one. See:

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_404.html
The best car in the world

:-)

A 505 is just a 404 in drag, they're great! A friend of mine drove 
one from London to Johannesburg, way back before they invented roads 
and stuff. Best of good luck with it Brian, I hope you get all the 
problems licked.

Keith



>" What's a
>American "good ol' boy' doing with a Peugeot?" Well, it is a long
>story, the short version is: If we live our lives in a spiritually
>wholesome and environmentally friendly fashion,  we can expect good
>things to come to us. We don't need much and we have patience. Anyway,
>I said this is the short version right? We now have this car sitting
>here at the Ranch in northeastern New Mexico. It has only one
>mechanical problem that I can see; It is very hard to start, when it
>finally does it bellows blue-white smoke, and the coolant lines slowly
>begin to pressurize. The radiator hoses balloon up, very scary and we
>shut it down before they blow. At first glance it looks like a leaking
>head gasket. It is now sitting in front of my little workshop and I am
>so excited to finally have a car that I can make my own biodiesel for.
>Nevertheless, my rash days are past and I am content to ask first
>before I tear into anything mechanically. I ask for information.  I am
>relatively new to Biofuels, but I do have a fine set of Mechanics
>tools, much updated from the days long ago when I was a factory
>trained VW mechanic.  Please don't give me the negative perspective.
>If you do, I can take it. But I still have that wonderful glow  a guy
>gets when he gets a new car to refurbish.
>
>How's that line go? "Sing me the bad news!"
>
>
>
>So far I have zero cash investment in this really cute little car. I
>have three Mercedes gas powered monsters which have been steadily
>moving closer to the ranch dump. I toyed with the idea of buying a
>1982 300 Turbo Sedan that a friend has offered for $2000.00. I don't
>like the body style,  too heavy, and we couldn't afford it anyway.
>This Peugeot is almost 1000 pounds lighter than my 1980 480SE. And
>damn, did I say it is sleek and in mint condition? So yeah that's the
>good news. Anybody out there have any experience with these? Looks
>like a very clean engine, but that may be because the radiator already
>washed it off with a steam bath. I have extended experience with
>petrol vehicles.  My tools are metric and I love to read first then
>spin nuts after I at least think I understand.
>
>
>
>Diesel engines, this is only my second. I won't say what I did to the
>first one. I intend to make this motor sing again! So, I have heard of
>carbon buildup in the cylinders causing issues in dino-diesel motors.
>Any ideas? Things I could check. I suppose checking the compression
>through the spark plug holes is out of the question, lol. I will be
>looking for the factory service manual, unless it is written in French
>of course. Nah, I have factory service literature on the Benz and it
>is not in German. See how wishy washy I have become? Maybe it is the
>fog this morning, yeah fog in New Mexico, go figure. They have fog in
>France right?
>
>
>
>So how did my bio-diesel processing chemicals and WVO collecting go
>this week? Not well, physically. I talked it up pretty good, whatever
>that is worth. I think I know what I need to find for the test
>batches. A couple of little bottles of Heet (methanol).  Blue or
>yellow? There is a bit of confusion in the biofuel group about this,
>and a jar of Red Devil drain opener (lye.) A five gallon can for
>transporting the WVO back to the ranch and a 12 volt pump for filling
>my container at the rear of the Mc Donald's. Oh, and I have to ask
>Vince, the owner of the local McDonald's, if is ok to use some of the
>WVO from his business.
>
>
>
>Ok, I am so excited about our new diesel that I am totally torn
>between writing and thinking about it and going out into the fog and
>startingÖ something, anythingÖ How about learning?
>
>Sincerely, Brian Rodgers


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Re: [Biofuel] Anyone using Magnasol?

Please use the list archives Marty.

http://snipurl.com/i8mp
Search results for 'magnasol'

Best wishes

Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo charged diesel vehicle!?

2005-10-07 Thread Juan B

Hi Brian,

About the Peugeot 505, If the smoke is blue and white, your car is
burning oil, this could be the o rings of the pistons or a liking
gasket on the head of the engine. About the coolant, it seems
that one of the lines are blocked I would recommend you to flash the
cooling system of the engine and to clean the hoses maybe there is
something there that is blocking the flow.

I hope that could help
Cheers
JuanOn 10/7/05, Brian Rodgers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
October 7, 2005Hi everyoneAfter three months of wishy washy thinking and anxiety over money toinvest in my biodiesel project, this very moment my dream has beenrealized. I am now the proud owner of a 1981 Peugeot 505 four cylinder
turbo charged diesel vehicle! I know what you are thinking, " What's aAmerican "good ol' boy' doing with a Peugeot?" Well, it is a longstory, the short version is: If we live our lives in a spiritually
wholesome and environmentally friendly fashion, we can expect goodthings to come to us. We don't need much and we have patience. Anyway,I said this is the short version right? We now have this car sitting
here at the Ranch in northeastern New Mexico. It has only onemechanical problem that I can see; It is very hard to start, when itfinally does it bellows blue-white smoke, and the coolant lines slowlybegin to pressurize. The radiator hoses balloon up, very scary and we
shut it down before they blow. At first glance it looks like a leakinghead gasket. It is now sitting in front of my little workshop and I amso excited to finally have a car that I can make my own biodiesel for.
Nevertheless, my rash days are past and I am content to ask firstbefore I tear into anything mechanically. I ask for information. I amrelatively new to Biofuels, but I do have a fine set of Mechanicstools, much updated from the days long ago when I was a factory
trained VW mechanic. Please don't give me the negative perspective.If you do, I can take it. But I still have that wonderful glow a guygets when he gets a new car to refurbish.How's that line go? "Sing me the bad news!"
So far I have zero cash investment in this really cute little car. Ihave three Mercedes gas powered monsters which have been steadilymoving closer to the ranch dump. I toyed with the idea of buying a
1982 300 Turbo Sedan that a friend has offered for $2000.00. I don'tlike the body style, too heavy, and we couldn't afford it anyway.This Peugeot is almost 1000 pounds lighter than my 1980 480SE. Anddamn, did I say it is sleek and in mint condition? So yeah that's the
good news. Anybody out there have any experience with these? Lookslike a very clean engine, but that may be because the radiator alreadywashed it off with a steam bath. I have extended experience withpetrol vehicles. My tools are metric and I love to read first then
spin nuts after I at least think I understand.Diesel engines, this is only my second. I won't say what I did to thefirst one. I intend to make this motor sing again! So, I have heard ofcarbon buildup in the cylinders causing issues in dino-diesel motors.
Any ideas? Things I could check. I suppose checking the compressionthrough the spark plug holes is out of the question, lol. I will belooking for the factory service manual, unless it is written in Frenchof course. Nah, I have factory service literature on the Benz and it
is not in German. See how wishy washy I have become? Maybe it is thefog this morning, yeah fog in New Mexico, go figure. They have fog inFrance right?So how did my bio-diesel processing chemicals and WVO collecting go
this week? Not well, physically. I talked it up pretty good, whateverthat is worth. I think I know what I need to find for the testbatches. A couple of little bottles of Heet (methanol). Blue oryellow? There is a bit of confusion in the biofuel group about this,
and a jar of Red Devil drain opener (lye.) A five gallon can fortransporting the WVO back to the ranch and a 12 volt pump for fillingmy container at the rear of the Mc Donald's. Oh, and I have to askVince, the owner of the local McDonald's, if is ok to use some of the
WVO from his business.Ok, I am so excited about our new diesel that I am totally tornbetween writing and thinking about it and going out into the fog andstarting… something, anything… How about learning?
Sincerely, Brian Rodgers___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org
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[Biofuel] transesterification

2005-10-07 Thread michael skinner

I'm a chemist.

Has any one written anything about the details of the chemistry in making 
biodiesel.

Looks like you are doing a transesterification to replace glycerine with 
methanol.  This would drop the molecular wight and thus the viscosity.

adding a little bit of an surfactant (soap) would form miscells which might 
help with the reaction i.e. run reaction at lower temp.

does anyone know the details of the reaction?

has an one considered taking the glycerine and reacting with acetic acid 
(vinegar) forming the tri-ester (glyceryl triacetate bp 258 C, specific 
gravity 1.156, soluble in ether) and adding that back into the fuel.



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[Biofuel] Anyone using Magnasol?

2005-10-07 Thread Marty Phee



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Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

Hakan

Thanks for the input, its appreciated.  In response:

The Japanese Government targets a specific industry and supports the top few 
competitors.  Internally the mega structures are Kieretsu-based (thank you 
MacArthur -a man with far too much glory for his skill level).  The Allies 
needed a station near China and USSR so Japan was allowed to morph the zaibatsu 
into the kieretsu (Mitsumi,Sumitomo,Mitsubishi).  They have stakes in every 
major and mid-level university doing R&D in the US.

The Koeans favour the Chaebol, the equivalent of the Japanese Kieritsu - 
Hyundai,LG, SK Group, Samsung.

The Chinese strong-arm their spend - ie. GE had three light bulb mfg 
competitors in China when it started negotiations to build a mfg plant there.  
Three years later when they got approval they had 2000.  Cisco set up a second 
world headquarters in China.

US Congressional approval (excluding COTS -commercial off the shelf) requires 
multiple (three I believe) quotes.

While the US President may favour no-let contarcts (KBR), on balance the US 
does not allow business to conduct itself through price manipulation or 
collusion: ADM, Eliot Spicer targets, FANNIE MAE, FREDDIE MAC.  Unfortunately a 
multi-national is not hampered by geo-politics.  Who do you think owns India 
(Union Carbide or IBM).

I'm not talking about invisible counter-intuitive policies - e.g. US DEA wants 
to kill a Golden Triangle general and the US State department supports him due 
to geography.  I also agree that there is a concentration of power 
internationally - http://www.oligopolywatch.com/2005/06/15.html

But I do have to ask you to look at European and European colonialism in 30 
year cycles.

Robert

-- Original Message --
From: Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Date:  Fri, 07 Oct 2005 16:02:33 +0200

>
>Robert,
>
>I do not understand what you mean by trust laws. 
>If you mean the "anti trust" laws, Reagan got rid 
>of them, during his presidency. Before that, US 
>had this 70% rule to protect consumers from being 
>dependent of a monopoly source.
>
>Hakan
>
>
>At 14:36 07/10/2005, you wrote:
>
>
>>With all due respect,  The USA is a highly 
>>visible consumer.  Their arrogance and "might is 
>>right" policies are a natural target.  We would 
>>be remiss to forget their considerable 
>>humanitarian contribution (no not war).  Europe 
>>has plunged every generation into war with US 
>>help.  Not only is the US an engine for profits, 
>>but their trust laws are far stricter than Japan 
>>(MITI), China, Middle East, South America, SE 
>>Asia, Balkans, or the EU.  When the new world 
>>order takes place - and I agree it will as 
>>manufacturing capacity moves offshore - we will 
>>see super-power consumers (China, India) that DO NOT HAVE trust laws.
>>
>>Robert
>>
>>-- Original Message --
>>From: Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>Date:  Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:58:26 +0200
>>
>> >
>> >Hi Tom and Bede,
>> >
>> >Maybe the coming oil crises will be a blessing
>> >for our earth. Because the moment oil is no loner
>> >available, we have to produce fuel and plastics
>> >etc. from other sources. If all playing on a
>> >level field, the possibilities are more equal and
>> >the wealth will be more distributed. US had the
>> >advantage to be the first oil economy and that
>> >the large oil resources have been in less
>> >populated countries, which could be "developed" by US interests.
>> >
>> >Next step will be a development of the coal
>> >resources and US, Russia and China have maybe 70%
>> >of known resources and this time US will not be
>> >able to manipulate. Since the coal will be
>> >expensive, the rest of the world will be
>> >competing with renewable agriculture based
>> >alternatives on more equal terms. To have any
>> >kind of possibilities to survive, coal has to
>> >carry large cost for sequestering of polluting
>> >chemicals and gases. This especially if the
>> >hydrogen economy becomes a reality. The handling
>> >of nuclear waste will be a minor problem,
>> >compared with what the future generations will face
>> >
>> >The wealth and powers to be, will have a totally
>> >different structure than today and none of us can
>> >really imagine how the future will look. We will
>> >not participate in this future, but our attitudes
>> >and work of today, will be of utmost importance.
>> >It is now that we can effect the outcome and if
>> >we do not take Global warming and other things
>> >very serious, our future generations will carry
>> >the punishment. It is no risks of that we can be
>> >to cautious and careful, because it will be a
>> >possibility to sustain the future if we follow
>> >this principles anyway. The world is probably on
>> >the edge and it does not take much to tip the balance towards disasters.
>> >
>> >Nothing will be able to solve without a strict
>> >energy eff

Re: [Biofuel] Peugeot 505 four cylinder turbo charged diesel vehicle!?

October 7, 2005

Hi everyone

After three months of wishy washy thinking and anxiety over money to
invest in my biodiesel project, this very moment my dream has been
realized. I am now the proud owner of a 1981 Peugeot 505 four cylinder
turbo charged diesel vehicle! I know what you are thinking, " What's a
American "good ol' boy' doing with a Peugeot?" Well, it is a long
story, the short version is: If we live our lives in a spiritually
wholesome and environmentally friendly fashion,  we can expect good
things to come to us. We don't need much and we have patience. Anyway,
I said this is the short version right? We now have this car sitting
here at the Ranch in northeastern New Mexico. It has only one
mechanical problem that I can see; It is very hard to start, when it
finally does it bellows blue-white smoke, and the coolant lines slowly
begin to pressurize. The radiator hoses balloon up, very scary and we
shut it down before they blow. At first glance it looks like a leaking
head gasket. It is now sitting in front of my little workshop and I am
so excited to finally have a car that I can make my own biodiesel for.
Nevertheless, my rash days are past and I am content to ask first
before I tear into anything mechanically. I ask for information.  I am
relatively new to Biofuels, but I do have a fine set of Mechanics
tools, much updated from the days long ago when I was a factory
trained VW mechanic.  Please don't give me the negative perspective. 
If you do, I can take it. But I still have that wonderful glow  a guy
gets when he gets a new car to refurbish.

How's that line go? "Sing me the bad news!"



So far I have zero cash investment in this really cute little car. I
have three Mercedes gas powered monsters which have been steadily
moving closer to the ranch dump. I toyed with the idea of buying a
1982 300 Turbo Sedan that a friend has offered for $2000.00. I don't
like the body style,  too heavy, and we couldn't afford it anyway. 
This Peugeot is almost 1000 pounds lighter than my 1980 480SE. And
damn, did I say it is sleek and in mint condition? So yeah that's the
good news. Anybody out there have any experience with these? Looks
like a very clean engine, but that may be because the radiator already
washed it off with a steam bath. I have extended experience with
petrol vehicles.  My tools are metric and I love to read first then
spin nuts after I at least think I understand.



Diesel engines, this is only my second. I won't say what I did to the
first one. I intend to make this motor sing again! So, I have heard of
carbon buildup in the cylinders causing issues in dino-diesel motors.
Any ideas? Things I could check. I suppose checking the compression
through the spark plug holes is out of the question, lol. I will be
looking for the factory service manual, unless it is written in French
of course. Nah, I have factory service literature on the Benz and it
is not in German. See how wishy washy I have become? Maybe it is the
fog this morning, yeah fog in New Mexico, go figure. They have fog in
France right?



So how did my bio-diesel processing chemicals and WVO collecting go
this week? Not well, physically. I talked it up pretty good, whatever
that is worth. I think I know what I need to find for the test
batches. A couple of little bottles of Heet (methanol).  Blue or
yellow? There is a bit of confusion in the biofuel group about this,
and a jar of Red Devil drain opener (lye.) A five gallon can for
transporting the WVO back to the ranch and a 12 volt pump for filling
my container at the rear of the Mc Donald's. Oh, and I have to ask
Vince, the owner of the local McDonald's, if is ok to use some of the
WVO from his business.



Ok, I am so excited about our new diesel that I am totally torn
between writing and thinking about it and going out into the fog and
starting… something, anything… How about learning?

Sincerely, Brian Rodgers
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Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Frantz DESPREZ

Hakan Falk a écrit :

>Robert,
>
>You were right before, now you got it wrong. Now 
>I have to ask you to read up on the world wars 
>and the influence from the US finance powers. 
>Iraq was plunged into the Iranian war by US and 
>was not really successful, so the US occupation 
>got rid of a failing leader. You are right in 
>that before US took over the role as manipulator, 
>the French was involved in a lot of wars.
>
>Hakan
>
absolutly.
French has first support Iran (lend and borrow money, sold weapons, 
helped iranian nuclear research, while protecting Khomeiny near Paris)
Then helped Irak in it's war against Iran until both became weak enough. 
French technicians helped to build the Irak nuclear plant Osirak, and 
just before it was achieved, french let a caravan as a signal just front 
of the tunnel to reactor heart few hours before Israelian air force 
launched a guided bomb.

France, so called "human right country", is known to be fully or partly 
responsible of many dirty things, especially in Africa.

Frantz
sometimes not very proud to be french


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Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Joe Street

This is so true, and the flip side is that even if we were to get really 
serious about recycling, it is still only the third R of the three R's 
Reduce Re-use and Recycle.  The area where I live was the first in 
Canada (maybe north america?) to institute a blue box recycling program 
for housholds in the municipality.  But for me personnaly it took 
several years before I began to consider what it means to recycle. None 
of my neighbors have really caught on yet either.  I would put 
cardboard, tin cans, and plastic bottles in the bin but everything else 
went in the garbage. Our family of 4 would typically have two garbage 
cans full and half a box of recyclables every week. Then I began one day 
to just look at what was in my hand on the way to the garbage can each 
time and it started to change.  Every peice of paper, envelopes, scraps, 
junk mail, kleenex tissues etc. everything made of plastic, glass and 
metal, bottles, bottle caps, tie wraps, insulation from electrical 
wires, packaging materials, used plastic wrap and ziplock bags, aluminum 
foil wrap etc. I would find myself turning around and heading to the 
recycle station instead of the garbage.  Then it changed to two recycle 
boxes at the curb and one half filled garbage can.
Now I am reforming myself again and re-thinking a lot of stuff to do 
with the first two R's like why did I buy things like kleenex tissues, 
and paper towels when a hanky and rag would do just like they used to in 
days gone by and all they need it a wash and re-use?  Why did I buy 
rolls of scotch tape made with disposable plastic dispenser?  Sure it 
can be recycled but my trusty metal desk top tape dispenser only 
requires that I change the roll when it runs out.  Ziplock bags can be 
washed and re-used.  I try to buy things that are meant to last now.
What did it take to bring about this change in me?  It only took a 
willingness to consider things and an acceptance of the loss of 
convenience.  It seems that this is a very hard thing for many people to 
do though.  The expansionist economic system on which our society is 
based is such a well oiled machine that it is more than a little 
demoralizing at times to consider just how hard it is to apply the 
brakes.  People are so well controlled and indoctrinated into the rules 
of the game that I fear that nothing short of some catastrophe will 
initiate the change.  Maybe he is right.  Maybe  a global energy crisis 
will be a blessing in disguise.  You know the old saying "no pain, no 
gain" it is so sad but true nontheless.

Joe

>As far as recycling is concerned, about the only thing we recycle 
>really well is gold. Funny that, it's not as if it were exactly the 
>most useful stuff there is. I believe you can make a high-explosive 
>out of it, but it's seldom used for some reason.
>
>We shall have to learn to use, recycle and re-use everything as 
>carefully as we use gold.
>  
>
>  
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message


Robert,

You were right before, now you got it wrong. Now 
I have to ask you to read up on the world wars 
and the influence from the US finance powers. 
Iraq was plunged into the Iranian war by US and 
was not really successful, so the US occupation 
got rid of a failing leader. You are right in 
that before US took over the role as manipulator, 
the French was involved in a lot of wars.

Hakan


At 15:28 07/10/2005, you wrote:

>Sorry...need more coffee...previous post should 
>read..."Europe has plunged every generation into war WITHOUT US help..."
>
>Robert
>
>
>-- Original Message --
>From: "radema" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Date:  Fri,  7 Oct 2005 06:36:37 -0600
>
> >
> >
> >With all due respect,  The USA is a highly 
> visible consumer.  Their arrogance and "might 
> is right" policies are a natural target.  We 
> would be remiss to forget their considerable 
> humanitarian contribution (no not war).  Europe 
> has plunged every generation into war with US 
> help.  Not only is the US an engine for 
> profits, but their trust laws are far stricter 
> than Japan (MITI), China, Middle East, South 
> America, SE Asia, Balkans, or the EU.  When the 
> new world order takes place - and I agree it 
> will as manufacturing capacity moves offshore - 
> we will see super-power consumers (China, India) that DO NOT HAVE trust laws.
> >
> >Robert
> >
> >-- Original Message --
> >From: Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >Date:  Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:58:26 +0200
> >
> >>
> >>Hi Tom and Bede,
> >>
> >>Maybe the coming oil crises will be a blessing
> >>for our earth. Because the moment oil is no loner
> >>available, we have to produce fuel and plastics
> >>etc. from other sources. If all playing on a
> >>level field, the possibilities are more equal and
> >>the wealth will be more distributed. US had the
> >>advantage to be the first oil economy and that
> >>the large oil resources have been in less
> >>populated countries, which could be "developed" by US interests.
> >>
> >>Next step will be a development of the coal
> >>resources and US, Russia and China have maybe 70%
> >>of known resources and this time US will not be
> >>able to manipulate. Since the coal will be
> >>expensive, the rest of the world will be
> >>competing with renewable agriculture based
> >>alternatives on more equal terms. To have any
> >>kind of possibilities to survive, coal has to
> >>carry large cost for sequestering of polluting
> >>chemicals and gases. This especially if the
> >>hydrogen economy becomes a reality. The handling
> >>of nuclear waste will be a minor problem,
> >>compared with what the future generations will face
> >>
> >>The wealth and powers to be, will have a totally
> >>different structure than today and none of us can
> >>really imagine how the future will look. We will
> >>not participate in this future, but our attitudes
> >>and work of today, will be of utmost importance.
> >>It is now that we can effect the outcome and if
> >>we do not take Global warming and other things
> >>very serious, our future generations will carry
> >>the punishment. It is no risks of that we can be
> >>to cautious and careful, because it will be a
> >>possibility to sustain the future if we follow
> >>this principles anyway. The world is probably on
> >>the edge and it does not take much to tip the balance towards disasters.
> >>
> >>Nothing will be able to solve without a strict
> >>energy efficiency, which also will be the best
> >>economical regime. It is amazing that US is using
> >>3 times and Canada 4 times more energy in their
> >>buildings, than Sweden does. This after climate
> >>corrections. With dirt cheap oil, it was
> >>expensive, but with todays oil prices, it has
> >>become very economical. This is also something
> >>that cannot be "occupied by military force and is closer to sustainable.
> >>
> >>Hakan
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>At 12:29 07/10/2005, you wrote:
> >>>with the rising cost of oil these will 
> eventually become valuable resources,
> >>>Its also only a matter of time before we start mining our rubbish dumps!
> >>>
> >>>There's also a French company i saw on Beyond
> >>>2000, it had to do with turning tires back into its raw components.
> >>>once again once bought back, it cost more to
> >>>process than the end products where worth.
> >>>-Original Message-
> >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tom Irwin
> >>>Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:07 PM
> >>>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price 
> of Packaging/Sending the Message
> >>>
> >>>Hi Hakan and all,
> >>>
> >>>One of the real problems is not having an
> >>>economic system that accounts for the lack of
> >>>degradability or environmental consequences of
> >>>products produced. This is a world wide problem
> >>>not limited to

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message


Robert,

I do not understand what you mean by trust laws. 
If you mean the "anti trust" laws, Reagan got rid 
of them, during his presidency. Before that, US 
had this 70% rule to protect consumers from being 
dependent of a monopoly source.

Hakan


At 14:36 07/10/2005, you wrote:


>With all due respect,  The USA is a highly 
>visible consumer.  Their arrogance and "might is 
>right" policies are a natural target.  We would 
>be remiss to forget their considerable 
>humanitarian contribution (no not war).  Europe 
>has plunged every generation into war with US 
>help.  Not only is the US an engine for profits, 
>but their trust laws are far stricter than Japan 
>(MITI), China, Middle East, South America, SE 
>Asia, Balkans, or the EU.  When the new world 
>order takes place - and I agree it will as 
>manufacturing capacity moves offshore - we will 
>see super-power consumers (China, India) that DO NOT HAVE trust laws.
>
>Robert
>
>-- Original Message --
>From: Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Date:  Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:58:26 +0200
>
> >
> >Hi Tom and Bede,
> >
> >Maybe the coming oil crises will be a blessing
> >for our earth. Because the moment oil is no loner
> >available, we have to produce fuel and plastics
> >etc. from other sources. If all playing on a
> >level field, the possibilities are more equal and
> >the wealth will be more distributed. US had the
> >advantage to be the first oil economy and that
> >the large oil resources have been in less
> >populated countries, which could be "developed" by US interests.
> >
> >Next step will be a development of the coal
> >resources and US, Russia and China have maybe 70%
> >of known resources and this time US will not be
> >able to manipulate. Since the coal will be
> >expensive, the rest of the world will be
> >competing with renewable agriculture based
> >alternatives on more equal terms. To have any
> >kind of possibilities to survive, coal has to
> >carry large cost for sequestering of polluting
> >chemicals and gases. This especially if the
> >hydrogen economy becomes a reality. The handling
> >of nuclear waste will be a minor problem,
> >compared with what the future generations will face
> >
> >The wealth and powers to be, will have a totally
> >different structure than today and none of us can
> >really imagine how the future will look. We will
> >not participate in this future, but our attitudes
> >and work of today, will be of utmost importance.
> >It is now that we can effect the outcome and if
> >we do not take Global warming and other things
> >very serious, our future generations will carry
> >the punishment. It is no risks of that we can be
> >to cautious and careful, because it will be a
> >possibility to sustain the future if we follow
> >this principles anyway. The world is probably on
> >the edge and it does not take much to tip the balance towards disasters.
> >
> >Nothing will be able to solve without a strict
> >energy efficiency, which also will be the best
> >economical regime. It is amazing that US is using
> >3 times and Canada 4 times more energy in their
> >buildings, than Sweden does. This after climate
> >corrections. With dirt cheap oil, it was
> >expensive, but with todays oil prices, it has
> >become very economical. This is also something
> >that cannot be "occupied by military force and is closer to sustainable.
> >
> >Hakan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >At 12:29 07/10/2005, you wrote:
> >>with the rising cost of oil these will 
> eventually become valuable resources,
> >>Its also only a matter of time before we start mining our rubbish dumps!
> >>
> >>There's also a French company i saw on Beyond
> >>2000, it had to do with turning tires back into its raw components.
> >>once again once bought back, it cost more to
> >>process than the end products where worth.
> >>-Original Message-
> >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tom Irwin
> >>Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:07 PM
> >>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> >>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price 
> of Packaging/Sending the Message
> >>
> >>Hi Hakan and all,
> >>
> >>One of the real problems is not having an
> >>economic system that accounts for the lack of
> >>degradability or environmental consequences of
> >>products produced. This is a world wide problem
> >>not limited to the U.S. More than 10 years ago I
> >>worked on a research team to make a
> >>biodegradable plastic. We accomplished this and
> >>had formulations that worked in most plastic
> >>processing equipment. Of course, polyethylene
> >>was $0.26 per pound and our formulations were
> >>about a dollar more per pound. We had a
> >>wonderful niche market product that couldn´t
> >>support us. The same is true for PET. There´s a
> >>company that I worked for that holds a patent
> >>for recycling waste PET chemically back to
> >>original components, bottles from bottles with
> >>no residual c

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message


Jeromie,

I thought that we talked about energy on this list and
especially oil. In that case you can go to
http://www.bp.com
and look at their statistic and  reporting, it is regarded
as reliable source and generally accepted.

You can also look at the works of ASPO or Matt Simmon's
on oil depletion.

Regarding other resources and data, you will find a lot
in the UN statistic on Human Development Resource Index..

This and a lot more is also to find in biofuels archive, since
many members have posted very sincere opinions and good info. .

Reading you post, I do not expect that you will put in
a lot of work in this, but if you do, we can continue the
discussion.

Hakan

At 10:47 07/10/2005, you wrote:
>Hakan Falk wrote:
>
> >
> >It is the most wasteful people on the earth, by no comparison.
> >4+% of the world population, who uses 25% of the world
> >resources. It is not a question of insult, it is the sad truth. To
> >hide behind a hypocritical emotion about insult, instead of put
> >an end to the unfair and irresponsible waste of resources. I
> >know that you want to do something about it, otherwise you
> >would not be on this list, but defending your fellow Americans?
> >
> >Hakan
> >
> >
>Ive heard this for some time. No one has yet been able to show me the
>study that says we use
>25% of  the world resources. Please show me where we use 25% of the
>water, land, air, crude,
>electricity, sunlight, tree's, twinkies, hamburgers, milk, rice, rubber,
>cotton, whiskey, children born
>(by day, month and year), minerals (all of them) and anything else I
>missed. I truely want to see
>a report on each one of these (and others).
>
>Jeormie
>
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>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
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>
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Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message



With all due respect,  The USA is a highly visible consumer.  Their arrogance 
and "might is right" policies are a natural target.  We would be remiss to 
forget their considerable humanitarian contribution (no not war).  Europe has 
plunged every generation into war with US help.  Not only is the US an engine 
for profits, but their trust laws are far stricter than Japan (MITI), China, 
Middle East, South America, SE Asia, Balkans, or the EU.  When the new world 
order takes place - and I agree it will as manufacturing capacity moves 
offshore - we will see super-power consumers (China, India) that DO NOT HAVE 
trust laws.

Robert  

-- Original Message --
From: Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Date:  Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:58:26 +0200

>
>Hi Tom and Bede,
>
>Maybe the coming oil crises will be a blessing 
>for our earth. Because the moment oil is no loner 
>available, we have to produce fuel and plastics 
>etc. from other sources. If all playing on a 
>level field, the possibilities are more equal and 
>the wealth will be more distributed. US had the 
>advantage to be the first oil economy and that 
>the large oil resources have been in less 
>populated countries, which could be "developed" by US interests.
>
>Next step will be a development of the coal 
>resources and US, Russia and China have maybe 70% 
>of known resources and this time US will not be 
>able to manipulate. Since the coal will be 
>expensive, the rest of the world will be 
>competing with renewable agriculture based 
>alternatives on more equal terms. To have any 
>kind of possibilities to survive, coal has to 
>carry large cost for sequestering of polluting 
>chemicals and gases. This especially if the 
>hydrogen economy becomes a reality. The handling 
>of nuclear waste will be a minor problem, 
>compared with what the future generations will face
>
>The wealth and powers to be, will have a totally 
>different structure than today and none of us can 
>really imagine how the future will look. We will 
>not participate in this future, but our attitudes 
>and work of today, will be of utmost importance. 
>It is now that we can effect the outcome and if 
>we do not take Global warming and other things 
>very serious, our future generations will carry 
>the punishment. It is no risks of that we can be 
>to cautious and careful, because it will be a 
>possibility to sustain the future if we follow 
>this principles anyway. The world is probably on 
>the edge and it does not take much to tip the balance towards disasters.
>
>Nothing will be able to solve without a strict 
>energy efficiency, which also will be the best 
>economical regime. It is amazing that US is using 
>3 times and Canada 4 times more energy in their 
>buildings, than Sweden does. This after climate 
>corrections. With dirt cheap oil, it was 
>expensive, but with todays oil prices, it has 
>become very economical. This is also something 
>that cannot be "occupied by military force and is closer to sustainable.
>
>Hakan
>
>
>
>
>At 12:29 07/10/2005, you wrote:
>>with the rising cost of oil these will eventually become valuable resources,
>>Its also only a matter of time before we start mining our rubbish dumps!
>>
>>There's also a French company i saw on Beyond 
>>2000, it had to do with turning tires back into its raw components.
>>once again once bought back, it cost more to 
>>process than the end products where worth.
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tom Irwin
>>Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:07 PM
>>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message
>>
>>Hi Hakan and all,
>>
>>One of the real problems is not having an 
>>economic system that accounts for the lack of 
>>degradability or environmental consequences of 
>>products produced. This is a world wide problem 
>>not limited to the U.S. More than 10 years ago I 
>>worked on a research team to make a 
>>biodegradable plastic. We accomplished this and 
>>had formulations that worked in most plastic 
>>processing equipment. Of course, polyethylene 
>>was $0.26 per pound and our formulations were 
>>about a dollar more per pound. We had a 
>>wonderful niche market product that couldn´t 
>>support us. The same is true for PET. There´s a 
>>company that I worked for that holds a patent 
>>for recycling waste PET chemically back to 
>>original components, bottles from bottles with 
>>no residual contamination. Transportation costs 
>>of the light plastics kill this one. Many 
>>industries have solutions but they are not 
>>economical with the present low cost of the 
>>plastics they would replace or recycle.
>>
>>Tom  Irwin
>
>
>
>___
>Biofuel mailing list
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>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
>Biofuel at Journe

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Mike Weaver

If only.  We here in US don't seem to learn very quickly.

>
> Hi Tom and Bede,
>
> Maybe the coming oil crises will be a blessing
> for our earth. Because the moment oil is no loner
> available, we have to produce fuel and plastics
> etc. from other sources. If all playing on a
> level field, the possibilities are more equal and
> the wealth will be more distributed. US had the
> advantage to be the first oil economy and that
> the large oil resources have been in less
> populated countries, which could be "developed" by US interests.
>
> Next step will be a development of the coal
> resources and US, Russia and China have maybe 70%
> of known resources and this time US will not be
> able to manipulate. Since the coal will be
> expensive, the rest of the world will be
> competing with renewable agriculture based
> alternatives on more equal terms. To have any
> kind of possibilities to survive, coal has to
> carry large cost for sequestering of polluting
> chemicals and gases. This especially if the
> hydrogen economy becomes a reality. The handling
> of nuclear waste will be a minor problem,
> compared with what the future generations will face
>
> The wealth and powers to be, will have a totally
> different structure than today and none of us can
> really imagine how the future will look. We will
> not participate in this future, but our attitudes
> and work of today, will be of utmost importance.
> It is now that we can effect the outcome and if
> we do not take Global warming and other things
> very serious, our future generations will carry
> the punishment. It is no risks of that we can be
> to cautious and careful, because it will be a
> possibility to sustain the future if we follow
> this principles anyway. The world is probably on
> the edge and it does not take much to tip the balance towards disasters.
>
> Nothing will be able to solve without a strict
> energy efficiency, which also will be the best
> economical regime. It is amazing that US is using
> 3 times and Canada 4 times more energy in their
> buildings, than Sweden does. This after climate
> corrections. With dirt cheap oil, it was
> expensive, but with todays oil prices, it has
> become very economical. This is also something
> that cannot be "occupied by military force and is closer to sustainable.
>
> Hakan
>
>
>
>
> At 12:29 07/10/2005, you wrote:
>>with the rising cost of oil these will eventually become valuable
>> resources,
>>Its also only a matter of time before we start mining our rubbish dumps!
>>
>>There's also a French company i saw on Beyond
>>2000, it had to do with turning tires back into its raw components.
>>once again once bought back, it cost more to
>>process than the end products where worth.
>>-Original Message-
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tom Irwin
>>Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:07 PM
>>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the
>> Message
>>
>>Hi Hakan and all,
>>
>>One of the real problems is not having an
>>economic system that accounts for the lack of
>>degradability or environmental consequences of
>>products produced. This is a world wide problem
>>not limited to the U.S. More than 10 years ago I
>>worked on a research team to make a
>>biodegradable plastic. We accomplished this and
>>had formulations that worked in most plastic
>>processing equipment. Of course, polyethylene
>>was $0.26 per pound and our formulations were
>>about a dollar more per pound. We had a
>>wonderful niche market product that couldn´t
>>support us. The same is true for PET. There´s a
>>company that I worked for that holds a patent
>>for recycling waste PET chemically back to
>>original components, bottles from bottles with
>>no residual contamination. Transportation costs
>>of the light plastics kill this one. Many
>>industries have solutions but they are not
>>economical with the present low cost of the
>>plastics they would replace or recycle.
>>
>>Tom  Irwin
>
>
>
> ___
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> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
> messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>


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Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message


Sorry...need more coffee...previous post should read..."Europe has plunged 
every generation into war WITHOUT US help..."

Robert


-- Original Message --
From: "radema" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Date:  Fri,  7 Oct 2005 06:36:37 -0600

>
>
>With all due respect,  The USA is a highly visible consumer.  Their arrogance 
>and "might is right" policies are a natural target.  We would be remiss to 
>forget their considerable humanitarian contribution (no not war).  Europe has 
>plunged every generation into war with US help.  Not only is the US an engine 
>for profits, but their trust laws are far stricter than Japan (MITI), China, 
>Middle East, South America, SE Asia, Balkans, or the EU.  When the new world 
>order takes place - and I agree it will as manufacturing capacity moves 
>offshore - we will see super-power consumers (China, India) that DO NOT HAVE 
>trust laws.
>
>Robert  
>
>-- Original Message --
>From: Hakan Falk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Date:  Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:58:26 +0200
>
>>
>>Hi Tom and Bede,
>>
>>Maybe the coming oil crises will be a blessing 
>>for our earth. Because the moment oil is no loner 
>>available, we have to produce fuel and plastics 
>>etc. from other sources. If all playing on a 
>>level field, the possibilities are more equal and 
>>the wealth will be more distributed. US had the 
>>advantage to be the first oil economy and that 
>>the large oil resources have been in less 
>>populated countries, which could be "developed" by US interests.
>>
>>Next step will be a development of the coal 
>>resources and US, Russia and China have maybe 70% 
>>of known resources and this time US will not be 
>>able to manipulate. Since the coal will be 
>>expensive, the rest of the world will be 
>>competing with renewable agriculture based 
>>alternatives on more equal terms. To have any 
>>kind of possibilities to survive, coal has to 
>>carry large cost for sequestering of polluting 
>>chemicals and gases. This especially if the 
>>hydrogen economy becomes a reality. The handling 
>>of nuclear waste will be a minor problem, 
>>compared with what the future generations will face
>>
>>The wealth and powers to be, will have a totally 
>>different structure than today and none of us can 
>>really imagine how the future will look. We will 
>>not participate in this future, but our attitudes 
>>and work of today, will be of utmost importance. 
>>It is now that we can effect the outcome and if 
>>we do not take Global warming and other things 
>>very serious, our future generations will carry 
>>the punishment. It is no risks of that we can be 
>>to cautious and careful, because it will be a 
>>possibility to sustain the future if we follow 
>>this principles anyway. The world is probably on 
>>the edge and it does not take much to tip the balance towards disasters.
>>
>>Nothing will be able to solve without a strict 
>>energy efficiency, which also will be the best 
>>economical regime. It is amazing that US is using 
>>3 times and Canada 4 times more energy in their 
>>buildings, than Sweden does. This after climate 
>>corrections. With dirt cheap oil, it was 
>>expensive, but with todays oil prices, it has 
>>become very economical. This is also something 
>>that cannot be "occupied by military force and is closer to sustainable.
>>
>>Hakan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>At 12:29 07/10/2005, you wrote:
>>>with the rising cost of oil these will eventually become valuable resources,
>>>Its also only a matter of time before we start mining our rubbish dumps!
>>>
>>>There's also a French company i saw on Beyond 
>>>2000, it had to do with turning tires back into its raw components.
>>>once again once bought back, it cost more to 
>>>process than the end products where worth.
>>>-Original Message-
>>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tom Irwin
>>>Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:07 PM
>>>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>>>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message
>>>
>>>Hi Hakan and all,
>>>
>>>One of the real problems is not having an 
>>>economic system that accounts for the lack of 
>>>degradability or environmental consequences of 
>>>products produced. This is a world wide problem 
>>>not limited to the U.S. More than 10 years ago I 
>>>worked on a research team to make a 
>>>biodegradable plastic. We accomplished this and 
>>>had formulations that worked in most plastic 
>>>processing equipment. Of course, polyethylene 
>>>was $0.26 per pound and our formulations were 
>>>about a dollar more per pound. We had a 
>>>wonderful niche market product that couldn´t 
>>>support us. The same is true for PET. There´s a 
>>>company that I worked for that holds a patent 
>>>for recycling waste PET chemically back to 
>>>original components, bottles from bottles with 
>>>no residual contamination. T

Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

>with the rising cost of oil these will eventually become valuable resources,
>Its also only a matter of time before we start mining our rubbish dumps!
>
>There's also a French company i saw on Beyond 2000, it had to do 
>with turning tires back into its raw components.
>once again once bought back, it cost more to process than the end 
>products where worth.

But not once economic realities hit home, which they will inevitably 
do, with increased force the longer it's put off. Environmental cost 
accounting, carbon accounting, the precautionary principle, the 
polluter pays principle are all on the table and won't go away, no 
matter how neo-liberal economists bend theories and the world with 
it. The days of externalising costs are numbered.

As far as recycling is concerned, about the only thing we recycle 
really well is gold. Funny that, it's not as if it were exactly the 
most useful stuff there is. I believe you can make a high-explosive 
out of it, but it's seldom used for some reason.

We shall have to learn to use, recycle and re-use everything as 
carefully as we use gold.

>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tom Irwin
>Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:07 PM
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message
>
>Hi Hakan and all,
>
>One of the real problems is not having an economic system that 
>accounts for the lack of degradability or environmental consequences 
>of products produced.

*We* do have one, but *they* don't use it. Yet.

Best wishes

Keith


>This is a world wide problem not limited to the U.S. More than 10 
>years ago I worked on a research team to make a biodegradable 
>plastic. We accomplished this and had formulations that worked in 
>most plastic processing equipment. Of course, polyethylene was $0.26 
>per pound and our formulations were about a dollar more per pound. 
>We had a wonderful niche market product that couldn´t support us. 
>The same is true for PET. There´s a company that I worked for that 
>holds a patent for recycling waste PET chemically back to original 
>components, bottles from bottles with no residual 
>contamination. Transportation costs of the light plastics kill this 
>one. Many industries have solutions but they are not economical with 
>the present low cost of the plastics they would replace or recycle.
>
>Tom  Irwin


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Re: [Biofuel] Test Batch Help

Hello Ben

>Could somebody give me a clue as to what I am doing wrong? All my 
>batches except one have turned out pale in color. I am using new oil 
>in 1 liter batches. My measurements are accurate. Taking a big 
>breath now...
>
>Here is a picture of my samples.
>http://evocm.com/etha 
>nol/pvc_pics/DSC03856.JPG 
>
>Most have turned out looking like the jar on the right.
>I thought by looking at them one of you could give me a hint.
>In the meantime I'll keep plugging away.
>
>Any help is appreciated.
>
>Ben

Why do you think there's a problem with the colour? The colour's 
fine, but that's a LOT of glycerine by-product for virgin oil. What 
exactly did you do?

Anyway, do a wash-test and if all's well go ahead ahead with washing.

Wash-test:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_vehicle.html#quality

Washing:
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bubblewash.html

Best wishes

Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Mercedes 84

2005-10-07 Thread Peter Harves

Thank you all for your reply. I have the spare filters in the car and 
will change when needed.
The tank filter will have to be done when I have the time or if needed.
As now the car runs like a rocket on the Bio, a little bit of white 
smoke when cold.
Again thanks
Peter


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Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Jeromie Reeves

Hakan Falk wrote:

>
>It is the most wasteful people on the earth, by no comparison.
>4+% of the world population, who uses 25% of the world
>resources. It is not a question of insult, it is the sad truth. To
>hide behind a hypocritical emotion about insult, instead of put
>an end to the unfair and irresponsible waste of resources. I
>know that you want to do something about it, otherwise you
>would not be on this list, but defending your fellow Americans?
>
>Hakan
>  
>
Ive heard this for some time. No one has yet been able to show me the 
study that says we use
25% of  the world resources. Please show me where we use 25% of the 
water, land, air, crude,
electricity, sunlight, tree's, twinkies, hamburgers, milk, rice, rubber, 
cotton, whiskey, children born
(by day, month and year), minerals (all of them) and anything else I 
missed. I truely want to see
a report on each one of these (and others).

Jeormie

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Re: [Biofuel] Test Batch Help

2005-10-07 Thread Bobby Clark

Looks to me like all you need to do is wash and you'll have good biodiesel

Bobby

From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Test Batch Help
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 21:09:01

Could somebody give me a clue as to what I am doing wrong? All my batches 
except one have turned out pale in color. I am using new oil in 1 liter 
batches. My measurements are accurate. Taking a big breath now...

Here is a picture of my samples.

http://evocm.com/ethanol/pvc_pics/DSC03856.JPG 

Most have turned out looking like the jar on the right.

I thought by looking at them one of you could give me a hint.

In the meantime I'll keep plugging away.

Any help is appreciated.

Ben

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messages):

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Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message


The many projects and technologies that pass or fail to make it into the 
regulated environment have a common thread.  To measure and improve, we must 
compare apples to apples. An energy credit trading scheme is a stopgap measure 
consistant with current tech levels.  It allows measurable product creation, 
measurable transportation and measurable distribution.  

R 

-- Original Message --
From: Jeromie Reeves <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Date:  Thu, 06 Oct 2005 20:11:51 -0700

>Ken Dunn wrote:
>
>>When talking to friends, family and others regarding the
>>Earth-friendly practices that we can all include in our lifestyles, I
>>always stumble over quantifying the true price of packaging for
>>consumer goods.  Its easy enough to calculate the transportation costs
>>of an avacodo from California to Lancaster County, PA.  Its also
>>fairly straight forward to relay the burden on natural resources - the
>>real price we pay.  Adding it all up is also easily enough
>>accomplished.
>>
>>But, how do you really calculate the expense of packaging materials?
>>
>The company who produced that iten figured it in to there costs. The 
>store who bought it then sold it to
>you figured the weight in there shipping costs.
>
>> 
>>How much petroleum goes into one plastic bag?
>>
>The company that made the bag knows. Call one and ask them how many 
>units of X they get for Y stock.
>
>>  Of course, the plastic
>>won't break down in any of our lifetimes yet, its not easy to
>>determine the displacement of a resource when you don't know the
>>inputs.  For many (Americans anyway)
>>
>Thats insulting. Americans are not the only wasteful people on the 
>planet. Yes its hard to say but
>its easy to figure out. How much source material was used? How much X 
>went into that? Ask
>the companies, they might tell you, they might not.
>
>> "I won't be here in a million
>>years so, who cares?".  Then again, there are always the ever
>>increasing landfills to point to.  NIMBY does have some power there
>>yet, that approach is only a scare tactic to be exploited and I have
>>no time for that.
>>  
>>
>Mmmm,, yes who does care?
>
>>What portion of a tree is consumed to create a cardboard box that is
>>used just long enough for the DVD player (I almost said VCR :-) ) to
>>make its way from the factory to the store and then the family room
>>only to be mummified in the local dump?  How much extra weight does
>>the box add to the truck?  How much extra fuel does the extra weight
>>consume?
>>  
>>
>Again track the product and its material. I once heard that paper 
>products are better then 80% efficient.
>If that is true then 1lb of wood gives .8lb of paper product. What is 
>the weight of your matrial?
>
>>For a while I questioned whether paper really WAS any better than
>>plastic.  For a while I used plastic based on the premise that I could
>>recycle the plastic.  I've now decided that paper is better than
>>plastic if only for the reason that the paper atleast comes from a
>>natural resource that is sustainable (sort of).
>>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_pulp "Today, some people and groups 
>are advocating using field crop fiber instead
>of wood fiber as being more sustaible."  Paper and such fiber products 
>are far better then plastics in many ways. This
>does not mean plastics do not have a home.
>
>>  But, is paper better
>>than plastic?
>>
>For making bathroom tissue it sure is!
>
>>  What if we returned to using plastic made from soy
>>beans like ol' Henry's boys discovered?  Would it still be better to
>>use paper over plastic?
>>  
>>
>See above. What if we did return to it? Is it cheaper to do? Is it a 
>better product? If not, Why would any
>business do it?
>
>>How much energy is consumed to produce all of these packaging
>>materials?  And how much more is consumed to dispose of them?
>>  
>>
>For the production its easy, less then X dollars for a product that 
>costs X dollars.
>There must be proffit along the way, no one is doing it for free.
>
>>Rant as I may, how do we get the point across to the producers of
>>goods that we want lass packaging?
>>
>They already use as little packaging as they feel they safely can. Why? 
>Cause more costs them more and they
>want ot spend as little as they can. Sorry but a VCR/DVD player NEEDS 
>protective packaging.
>
>>  We can buy local all day long but,
>>Sony doesn't have a factory near me.  Even if they did, I'd still
>>probably have to take the packaging with me.
>>  
>>
>Yes you would. Whats so bad about that? Recycle if you want. Or not, 
>that IS a option you have. I think we
>need better recycling laws. Dumps should be recycling centers each and 
>every one. Only the absolute worst
>stuff should be tossed forever and even that should be solved..
>
>>Take care all,
>>Ken
>>
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Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Frantz DESPREZ

Bede a écrit :

> with the rising cost of oil these will eventually become valuable 
> resources,
> Its also only a matter of time before we start mining our rubbish dumps!
>  
> There's also a French company i saw on Beyond 2000, it had to do with 
> turning tires back into its raw components.
> once again once bought back, it cost more to process than the end 
> products where worth.

Bonjour,

I didn't heard about it but I know that a part of non-re-usable tyres 
are recycled in France as materials for road making (noiseless, water 
draining), drainage pipes or combustibles for industry or thermic power 
plants. But it's only a part of refused. Not far from my home, a former 
career will be filled with tyres for long time stock.
Tyres recycling in France is the business of this organisation : 
http://www.aliapur.fr/
English brochure : http://www.aliapur.fr/0-uploads/english_brochure.pdf

PEHD, PET and ABS are industrialy re-used once as textile fabric ("polar 
wool", car components or many other not-for-food purposes)
I guess that many other uses are planned but not enough to solve 
problems. 101 chemical ways of plastic recycling are described [in 
french] by the french gov agency for environment ( 
http://www.ademe.fr/htdocs/publications/publipdf/plastiques.htm ). 
Simple energetic use is often not available dued to chloric or heavy 
metallic parts in plastics.

Many URL about this. Plastic wastes recycling is a rising industry in 
Europe.
More money to manage wastes than to reduce their consuption
business is business

frantz from france


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Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

Hi Tom and Bede,

Maybe the coming oil crises will be a blessing 
for our earth. Because the moment oil is no loner 
available, we have to produce fuel and plastics 
etc. from other sources. If all playing on a 
level field, the possibilities are more equal and 
the wealth will be more distributed. US had the 
advantage to be the first oil economy and that 
the large oil resources have been in less 
populated countries, which could be "developed" by US interests.

Next step will be a development of the coal 
resources and US, Russia and China have maybe 70% 
of known resources and this time US will not be 
able to manipulate. Since the coal will be 
expensive, the rest of the world will be 
competing with renewable agriculture based 
alternatives on more equal terms. To have any 
kind of possibilities to survive, coal has to 
carry large cost for sequestering of polluting 
chemicals and gases. This especially if the 
hydrogen economy becomes a reality. The handling 
of nuclear waste will be a minor problem, 
compared with what the future generations will face

The wealth and powers to be, will have a totally 
different structure than today and none of us can 
really imagine how the future will look. We will 
not participate in this future, but our attitudes 
and work of today, will be of utmost importance. 
It is now that we can effect the outcome and if 
we do not take Global warming and other things 
very serious, our future generations will carry 
the punishment. It is no risks of that we can be 
to cautious and careful, because it will be a 
possibility to sustain the future if we follow 
this principles anyway. The world is probably on 
the edge and it does not take much to tip the balance towards disasters.

Nothing will be able to solve without a strict 
energy efficiency, which also will be the best 
economical regime. It is amazing that US is using 
3 times and Canada 4 times more energy in their 
buildings, than Sweden does. This after climate 
corrections. With dirt cheap oil, it was 
expensive, but with todays oil prices, it has 
become very economical. This is also something 
that cannot be "occupied by military force and is closer to sustainable.

Hakan

At 12:29 07/10/2005, you wrote:
>with the rising cost of oil these will eventually become valuable resources,
>Its also only a matter of time before we start mining our rubbish dumps!
>
>There's also a French company i saw on Beyond 
>2000, it had to do with turning tires back into its raw components.
>once again once bought back, it cost more to 
>process than the end products where worth.
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Tom Irwin
>Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:07 PM
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message
>
>Hi Hakan and all,
>
>One of the real problems is not having an 
>economic system that accounts for the lack of 
>degradability or environmental consequences of 
>products produced. This is a world wide problem 
>not limited to the U.S. More than 10 years ago I 
>worked on a research team to make a 
>biodegradable plastic. We accomplished this and 
>had formulations that worked in most plastic 
>processing equipment. Of course, polyethylene 
>was $0.26 per pound and our formulations were 
>about a dollar more per pound. We had a 
>wonderful niche market product that couldn´t 
>support us. The same is true for PET. There´s a 
>company that I worked for that holds a patent 
>for recycling waste PET chemically back to 
>original components, bottles from bottles with 
>no residual contamination. Transportation costs 
>of the light plastics kill this one. Many 
>industries have solutions but they are not 
>economical with the present low cost of the 
>plastics they would replace or recycle.
>
>Tom  Irwin

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Re: [Biofuel] copyright theft

2005-10-07 Thread Mike Weaver





Nuts.  I guess I've just wasted 5 pounds, then.

Keith Addison wrote:

  Someone just advised me of this:

  
  
check out ebay item number 8002774582. this ebayer is selling links 
to your web page

  
  
See:
http://snipurl.com/i7rn
eBay.co.uk: biodiesel (not lpg gas petrol diesel) cheaper fuel (item 
8002774582 end time 01-Oct-05 14:10:20 BST)

Amazing. Not the first time though, not the last either I guess.

Best wishes

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
KYOTO Pref., Japan
http://journeytoforever.org/

 


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Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Bede




with the rising cost of oil these will 
eventually become valuable resources,
Its also only a matter of time before we 
start mining our rubbish dumps!
 
There's also a French company i saw on 
Beyond 2000, it had to do with turning tires back into its raw 
components.
once again once bought back, it cost more to 
process than the end products where worth.

  -Original 
  Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Tom 
  IrwinSent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:07 PMTo: 
  Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the 
  Price of Packaging/Sending the Message
  Hi Hakan and all,
   
  One of the real problems is not having an economic system that accounts 
  for the lack of degradability or environmental consequences of products 
  produced. This is a world wide problem not limited to the U.S. More 
  than 10 years ago I worked on a research team to make a biodegradable 
  plastic. We accomplished this and had formulations that worked in most plastic 
  processing equipment. Of course, polyethylene was $0.26 per pound and our 
  formulations were about a dollar more per pound. We had a wonderful niche 
  market product that couldn´t support us. The same is true for PET. There´s a 
  company that I worked for that holds a patent for recycling waste PET 
  chemically back to original components, bottles from bottles with no residual 
  contamination. Transportation costs of the light plastics kill this one. 
  Many industries have solutions but they are not economical with the present 
  low cost of the plastics they would replace or recycle.
   
  Tom  Irwin
   
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Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message

2005-10-07 Thread Tom Irwin





Hi Hakan and all,
 
One of the real problems is not having an economic system that accounts for the lack of degradability or environmental consequences of products produced. This is a world wide problem not limited to the U.S. More than 10 years ago I worked on a research team to make a biodegradable plastic. We accomplished this and had formulations that worked in most plastic processing equipment. Of course, polyethylene was $0.26 per pound and our formulations were about a dollar more per pound. We had a wonderful niche market product that couldn´t support us. The same is true for PET. There´s a company that I worked for that holds a patent for recycling waste PET chemically back to original components, bottles from bottles with no residual contamination. Transportation costs of the light plastics kill this one. Many industries have solutions but they are not economical with the present low cost of the plastics they would replace or recycle.
 
Tom  Irwin
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Re: [Biofuel] Quantifying the Price of Packaging/Sending the Message