date:20060309

[Biofuel] first time confusion

2006-03-09 Thread RicAlls

i suppose i was reluctant to give much detail on the effects i am having with my first batches since i am unsure of the quality of my methanol and lye and was waiting on reliable higher quality material to arrive before i get really confused. however my third batch gave me a slightly cloudy amber BD with a thick brown glycerin on the bottom but gave me a mayonaise-like emulsion with wash test that lasted for 2 days until i dumped it. 
 out of curiosity i tried 250 ml of HEET, 3.5g lye to 1 liter of virgin vegetable oil and got a cloudy amber BD with a hard, peach colored glycerin and a wash test gave me the same emulsion. i keep the temperature between 55-60 deg Celsius and i blend for 1 hour, settle for 24 hours. i want to blame the quality of my lye and methanol until i get the good stuff to try again, but i will check to dry the oil first next time since i ASSUMED virgin oil to be dry. thank you very much.
Richard   Allison
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Re: [Biofuel] Carbon Monoxide in Red Meat - incompetence in the FDA

2006-03-09 Thread Zeke Yewdall

My friend's chickens eat alot of vegetables we get from the dumpster
here.  If they get a batch of beets, they produce pink eggs... 
Normally they vary from brown to tan to white depending on exactly
what they are eating that week, and whether they're spending more time
indoors out outside due to weather.

On 3/9/06, Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Bob
>
> >In the case of farmed salmon, I believe the dye is added to the diet,
> >not the processed flesh, (not that it makes a lot of difference)
> >
> >http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/123199_dye23.html
> >
> >similarly, the yolks of commercial eggs are yellow only because large
> >amounts of carotenes are added to the diet.  Otherwise the chickens
> >which  never leave the house would produce eggs which were essentially
> >colorless.
>
> Ulp! Yuk.
>
> Do you happen to know where the added carotene comes from?
>
> Also, do you or does anybody know if battery chickens are fed some or
> other additive to make the eggshells brown rather than white? That
> was being done in the UK in the 70s following market research that
> found a public preference for brown eggs, according to a news report
> I saw at the time, but I never heard anything further about it.
>
> Not surprisingly:
>
> >Donna Fezler of Grand Cypress Ranch did a funded, controlled study
> >of the nutritional value of grocery-store vs free-range eggs. She
> >had three groups of chicks, fed on free-choice non-medicated
> >commercial feed, with one group fed a supplement of cooked
> >free-range eggs twice a day, a second fed the same amount of
> >grocery-store eggs, and the third a control getting only the
> >free-choice feed.
> >
> >"The grocery store egg fed group ate more than any group by 28 days
> >and weighed the least ... the grocery eggs were actually negative
> >nutrition. The birds in that group had poor feed efficiency,
> >consuming the most feed and having the least weight gain. The
> >free-range egg fed birds were 22.4% heavier than the grocery egg fed
> >birds... There were residual effects of the grocery egg on the
> >chicks' development... There is an issue here: grocery store eggs
> >did not even provide the same nutrition as nothing at all with these
> >chicks."
>
> :-(
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
>
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > Unfortunately, this is allowed in the USA.  For example, dye is used for
> > > farmed salmon to give the grey meat a pink color
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Rachel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Joe Street
> > > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:04 AM
> > > *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > > *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Carbon Monoxide in Red Meat - incompetence in
> > > the FDA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Also red dye is used on meat.  I think this is not allowed in USA but in
> > > Canada I'm pretty sure it is legal.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > lres1 wrote:
> > >
> > > For years the tube lights above the meat storage areas have been
> > > emitting slightly red rays to make the meat look red. If you take meat
> > > from the meat stall and put it under the lights in the cooler for green
> > > veggies you will see the change in color of the meat. The change is also
> > > due to a green given off by the tube lights to make the vegetables look
> > > fresh. Tube lights (Mercury vapor) with phosphorous lining has been used
> > > for years with added chemicals in the tubes to enhance the
> > > stalls/coolers where the different foods are on display.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ever wandered why the meat looks red in the chiller and off red at the
> > > checkout?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Doug.
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > >
> > > *From:* Kirk McLoren 
> > >
> > > *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > > 
> > >
> > > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:04 AM
> > >
> > > *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Carbon Monoxide in Red Meat - incompetence
> > > in the FDA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ***
> > > No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
> > > No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
> > > No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
> > >
> > > Your mail has been scanned by InterScan.
> > > ***-***
> > >
> > > the people in positions of authority have demonstrated incompetence
> > > to deal with economic influence.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > A useful resource for toxicology is
> > >
> > > http://www.fpnotebook.com/index.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > lead
> > >
> > > http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER118.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > CO carbon monoxide
> > >
> > > http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER116.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > pulmonary intoxicants
> > >
> > > http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER131.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > unknown ingestion
> > >
> > > http://ww

[Biofuel] automating titration

2006-03-09 Thread Jason & Katie

hi everyone, haven't been posting for a couple months (points to old ISP & 
retches) but i was messing around in my head a few weeks ago and was 
wondering if there was any simple formula that could be used to digitize and 
automate a titration of oil as compared to lye for fry-grease diesel. i have 
been trying to think of a way to do this so i can automate the entire 
process, but have been coming up blank. any help would be appreciated.

thank you,
jason 


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Re: [Biofuel] Any other lister in Malaysia?

2006-03-09 Thread Rexis Tree

On 3/10/06, Samira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So where do they plan to find 500,000t of biodiesel to make the B5 blend? i'm stumped.  I recalled that they only mentioned that they can save 500,000t of diesel by mandating B5 in the country, didnt mentioned about where to get this 500,000t thou. Malaysia is producing some 15 million tons of palm oil in year 2005.
http://econ.mpob.gov.my/economy/su_review2005.htm
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Re: [Biofuel] first time confusion

2006-03-09 Thread Derick Giorchino









I use red devil in all my bio production
with no problems.

 









From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Street
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006
5:54 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] first time
confusion



 

Hi R.

I can't comment on the HEET as I haven't used it but you haven't given us
anything about the nature of the problem other than saying not getting a good
reaction. It's probably safe to assume that if it is on the site and people
have used it, it works. It's still possible your lye is old and carbonated or
your oil is not dry or a few other things are not right. As noted in a recent
post the most important variables are good mixing, proper temperature,
precision with measures. You haven't said if your reactions are not going far
enough or if you are having problems with soaps??  There is lots of good
info on troubleshooting on J2F and in the archives though and if you provide
mere details list members can advise what to try. I have HEET in the garage but never used
it I buy my methanol at a fuel supplyer at about $2.30 a gal. 

Make sure the oil is dry / no water heat it
to 120 deg f 125 and keep it there during the mixing. What is happening when
you process? Explain more and we could help more . Derick

Joe

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



As I am processing my first test
batches of biodiesel, I have problems finding answers to the following
questions. Can anyone throw me a bone here?

1. I am using Lewis red devil lye. The jar says it is 100% lye and it contains
sodium hydroxide, but I cannot find an MSDS or anyone at the company that will
tell me how pure the lye is. Does anybody know if this stuff is good enough?

2. I am using HEET brand fuel line dryer as suggested on the JTF website. It
says it contains methyl alcohol but, again, i cannot get an indication of how
much. I am concerned that the formula may have changed in recent years that may
make HEET unsuitable for biodisel processing. I finally found a good source for
reliable 99% pure methanol but i am curious if anybody knows if HEET is still
good?

I ask these questions because after my 5th attempt at processing I am not
getting a good reaction. If my materials are not up to snuff then perhaps the
website may want to mention something, such as not using HEET or lewis red
devil lye, so that other beginners wont waste their time. Thank you very much.
R. Allison 

 



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Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread Garth & Kim Travis

Greetings,
The cost of water is a funny thing, the smaller the bottle, the more it 
costs.  One gallon of distilled or spring water at Walmart is $0.58 
however, a 16.9 oz or 500ml at the check out is $0.99.  Other stores are 
more expensive, but have the same kind of pricing.
Bright Blessings,
Kim


At 01:39 PM 3/9/2006, you wrote:

>Question is how much does a gallon of bottled water cost in US?
>
>Hakan
>
>
>At 19:59 09/03/2006, you wrote:
> >Here's a better one (more current and longer time range)
> >http://www.eia.doe.g 
> ov/emeu/international/gas1.html
> >
> >Joe
> >
> >Jeromie Reeves wrote:
> >>
> >>Are you serious? N. America has cheap fuel? Please show me this cheap
> >>fuel as I pay WAY
> >>more for a gallon of gas then I do a gallon of bottled water.
> >>
> >>Jeromie
> >>
> >>Andrew Netherton wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investment
> >>>if they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our
> >>>cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America.
> >>>
> >>>Andrew Netherton
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>On 3/9/06, AltEnergyNetwork
> >>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> 
> Research Shows Only two out Six Hybrid Cars Recoup Cost Within 5 Years
> 
> < http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >
> 
> Yonkers, NY - Consumer Reports is revising the cost analysis
> in a story that examines the ownership costs and financial
>   benefits associated with hybrid cars. The story, titled
>   "The dollars and sense of hybrids," appears in the Annual April
>    Auto issue of CR, on newsstands now.
> 
> Consumer Reports is correcting a calculation error involving
> the depreciation for the six hybrid vehicles that, in the
> story, were compared to their conventionally powered
> counterparts. The error led the publication to overstate
>   how much extra money the hybrids will cost owners during
>    the first five years.
> 
> 
> 
> full article
> 
> < http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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Re: [Biofuel] Wet Composting

2006-03-09 Thread Rexis Tree

I wish to breed some worms too but my sister, mum, and girl friend surely do not like to have any red worms in the house! ;-) Wait till i got my own place.I used to have a box of earthworms, more like pets although i am planning to do vermiculture. I dug them out from my garden(i used to have a garden before i moved into my current apartment), roughly 5 of them, i think only 2 were matured worm and the rest were babies. Over 3 months, the babies all grown up and i found worm capsules. After 3 more months, tiny worms clawing all around the box and some wonder out of the box and got dried up(poor worms). Well, all these was before my mum come and visit me.
Oww, can do compost on a pile that small? Gonna try it someday, meanwhile later i will go to pet shop and get some air tubes for my methane test. Ohh, and of course, some banana too.Rexis
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Re: [Biofuel] Carbon Monoxide in Red Meat - incompetence in the FDA

2006-03-09 Thread Kenji James Fuse

I always assumed carotene comes from carrots - am I wrong here?

Kenji Fuse

On Fri, 10 Mar 2006, Keith Addison wrote:

> Hi Bob
>
> >In the case of farmed salmon, I believe the dye is added to the diet,
> >not the processed flesh, (not that it makes a lot of difference)
> >
> >http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/123199_dye23.html
> >
> >similarly, the yolks of commercial eggs are yellow only because large
> >amounts of carotenes are added to the diet.  Otherwise the chickens
> >which  never leave the house would produce eggs which were essentially
> >colorless.
>
> Ulp! Yuk.
>
> Do you happen to know where the added carotene comes from?
>
> Also, do you or does anybody know if battery chickens are fed some or
> other additive to make the eggshells brown rather than white? That
> was being done in the UK in the 70s following market research that
> found a public preference for brown eggs, according to a news report
> I saw at the time, but I never heard anything further about it.
>
> Not surprisingly:
>
> >Donna Fezler of Grand Cypress Ranch did a funded, controlled study
> >of the nutritional value of grocery-store vs free-range eggs. She
> >had three groups of chicks, fed on free-choice non-medicated
> >commercial feed, with one group fed a supplement of cooked
> >free-range eggs twice a day, a second fed the same amount of
> >grocery-store eggs, and the third a control getting only the
> >free-choice feed.
> >
> >"The grocery store egg fed group ate more than any group by 28 days
> >and weighed the least ... the grocery eggs were actually negative
> >nutrition. The birds in that group had poor feed efficiency,
> >consuming the most feed and having the least weight gain. The
> >free-range egg fed birds were 22.4% heavier than the grocery egg fed
> >birds... There were residual effects of the grocery egg on the
> >chicks' development... There is an issue here: grocery store eggs
> >did not even provide the same nutrition as nothing at all with these
> >chicks."
>
> :-(
>
> Best
>
> Keith
>
>
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > Unfortunately, this is allowed in the USA.  For example, dye is used for
> > > farmed salmon to give the grey meat a pink color
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Rachel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Joe Street
> > > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:04 AM
> > > *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > > *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Carbon Monoxide in Red Meat - incompetence in
> > > the FDA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Also red dye is used on meat.  I think this is not allowed in USA but in
> > > Canada I'm pretty sure it is legal.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > lres1 wrote:
> > >
> > > For years the tube lights above the meat storage areas have been
> > > emitting slightly red rays to make the meat look red. If you take meat
> > > from the meat stall and put it under the lights in the cooler for green
> > > veggies you will see the change in color of the meat. The change is also
> > > due to a green given off by the tube lights to make the vegetables look
> > > fresh. Tube lights (Mercury vapor) with phosphorous lining has been used
> > > for years with added chemicals in the tubes to enhance the
> > > stalls/coolers where the different foods are on display.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ever wandered why the meat looks red in the chiller and off red at the
> > > checkout?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Doug.
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > >
> > > *From:* Kirk McLoren 
> > >
> > > *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > > 
> > >
> > > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:04 AM
> > >
> > > *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Carbon Monoxide in Red Meat - incompetence
> > > in the FDA
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ***
> > > No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
> > > No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
> > > No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
> > >
> > > Your mail has been scanned by InterScan.
> > > ***-***
> > >
> > > the people in positions of authority have demonstrated incompetence
> > > to deal with economic influence.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > A useful resource for toxicology is
> > >
> > > http://www.fpnotebook.com/index.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > lead
> > >
> > > http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER118.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > CO carbon monoxide
> > >
> > > http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER116.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > pulmonary intoxicants
> > >
> > > http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER131.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > unknown ingestion
> > >
> > > http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER105.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kirk
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > */Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >/* wrote:
> > >
> > > /*/Apparently, the FDA didn't want to feel left ou

Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread Hakan Falk


David,

I do not understand why it is silly to want to know the facts about 
the following,

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

>Are you serious? N. America has cheap fuel? Please show me this cheap
>fuel as I pay WAY
>more for a gallon of gas then I do a gallon of bottled water.
>
>Jeromie
>
>Andrew Netherton wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investment
>>if they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our
>>cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America.
>>
>>Andrew Netherton

I live in Europe and we pay WAY more for the fuel than bottled water.

Hakan


At 22:44 09/03/2006, you wrote:
>Hakan Falk wrote:
> > That means that bottled water is more expensive than gasoline, as I
> > understand,
> > 
> http://www.bairdpetro.com/gasoline_prices/index.htm
> > @ $1.453 per gallon.
> >
> > So, what was wrong with the original statement?
> > Nothing as I understand it.
> >
>
>This is just silly.
>
>People want to make a point that gasoline is cheap in the US so they
>come up with something that makes it sound cheaper than water.
>
>It's not enough that we're going to compare gasoline, an industrial
>fuel, to food quality water that's packaged for individual consumption.
>
>Now we're going to compare the industrial, bought in large dollar
>quantities, price of gasoline without any kind of road or sales tax to
>water packaged for individual consumption with any and all applicable
>taxes applied.
>
>If you really want to compare the price of gasoline to water, how about
>using the price of water from the water company?  Oh, right, it's
>because they charge cents per cubic foot and all of a sudden our
>comparison looks silly.
>
>
>Gasoline IS cheap in the US.  It's not highly taxed compared to the rest
>of the world, and it doesn't include any of the external costs which
>might double or triple the price.  It doesn't include the costs of its
>use (global warming, pollution, health side-effects), the costs of it's
>production (pollution, economic and social policies), or its procurement
>(military intervention, social and economic policies).
>
>Rather than dredging up platitudes about it being "cheaper than water"
>which just IMHO make people look silly , could we please talk about its
>real costs?
>
>Thanks,
>
>--- David
>
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>
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Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread David Miller

Hakan Falk wrote:
> That means that bottled water is more expensive than gasoline, as I 
> understand,
> http://www.bairdpetro.com/gasoline_prices/index.htm
> @ $1.453 per gallon.
>
> So, what was wrong with the original statement?
> Nothing as I understand it.
>   

This is just silly.

People want to make a point that gasoline is cheap in the US so they 
come up with something that makes it sound cheaper than water.

It's not enough that we're going to compare gasoline, an industrial 
fuel, to food quality water that's packaged for individual consumption.

Now we're going to compare the industrial, bought in large dollar 
quantities, price of gasoline without any kind of road or sales tax to 
water packaged for individual consumption with any and all applicable 
taxes applied.

If you really want to compare the price of gasoline to water, how about 
using the price of water from the water company?  Oh, right, it's 
because they charge cents per cubic foot and all of a sudden our 
comparison looks silly.

Gasoline IS cheap in the US.  It's not highly taxed compared to the rest 
of the world, and it doesn't include any of the external costs which 
might double or triple the price.  It doesn't include the costs of its 
use (global warming, pollution, health side-effects), the costs of it's 
production (pollution, economic and social policies), or its procurement 
(military intervention, social and economic policies).

Rather than dredging up platitudes about it being "cheaper than water" 
which just IMHO make people look silly , could we please talk about its 
real costs?

Thanks,

--- David

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[Biofuel] squeezing every drop of ethanol from corn

2006-03-09 Thread AltEnergyNetwork

Squeezing Every Drop of Ethanol From Corn  

< http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141936056.news >

Ames, IA - Brent Shanks, an Iowa State University associate professor
 of chemical and biological engineering, is leading a research team
  that's working to develop chemical catalysts that could boost
   ethanol production by increasing the yield of fermentable sugars
from corn.

The idea is to create the chemical catalysts that create single,
 simple sugars from molecules made of several simple sugars linked
  together. The simple sugars are the ones that can be fermented
   to produce ethanol. 


full article

< http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141936056.news >





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Re: [Biofuel] bioplastic bottled water WAS hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread marilyn

I saw a bottled water documentary that showed how some companies just 
take water from a tap and label it spring water. Lab analyses showed 
many brands had water no cleaner than city water. It also said water 
bottles people did not recycle ended up as a huge amount of the trash 
in landfills. Unless they are made of bioplastics they will never 
decay. 

Does anyone know of any water companies using plastic made from 
plants? NEC and other big electronics companies in Japan are using 
bioplastics made from kenaf, sweet potatoes, and other plants for 
their computers, audio equipment,etc. One article said they are 
buying up all the kenaf they can find around the world. I'm trying to 
find US or Canadian companies making bioplastic products. We are 
creating sustainable industries in our community and this is one we 
want to do. Anyone out there who can help?

Marilyn

Biofuel@sustainablelists.org wrote:
Depends.

Supermarket filtered by the gallon probably runs around $2/gallon.

Name brand around $4/gallon to $20/gallon.

Home delivered 5 gallon jugs ~$1.80/gallon
Same company 24 .5L is $2.20/gallon

Hakan Falk wrote:
> Question is how much does a gallon of bottled water cost in US?
>
> Hakan

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Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread Marty Phee

If you exclude state and fed taxes water is much more valuable than gas.

I think gas is 2.39 around me today.

Find a spring, put it into a fancy bottle and your rich.

Hakan Falk wrote:
> That means that bottled water is more expensive than gasoline, as I 
> understand,
> http://www.bairdpetro.com/gasoline_prices/index.htm
> @ $1.453 per gallon.
>
> So, what was wrong with the original statement?
> Nothing as I understand it.
>
> Hakan
>
>
> At 21:25 09/03/2006, you wrote:
>   
>> Depends.
>>
>> Supermarket filtered by the gallon probably runs around $2/gallon.
>>
>> Name brand around $4/gallon to $20/gallon.
>>
>> Home delivered 5 gallon jugs ~$1.80/gallon
>> Same company 24 .5L is $2.20/gallon
>>
>> Hakan Falk wrote:
>> 
>>> Question is how much does a gallon of bottled water cost in US?
>>>
>>> Hakan
>>>
>>>
>>> At 19:59 09/03/2006, you wrote:
>>>
>>>   
 Here's a better one (more current and longer time range)

 


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Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread Hakan Falk


That means that bottled water is more expensive than gasoline, as I 
understand,
http://www.bairdpetro.com/gasoline_prices/index.htm
@ $1.453 per gallon.

So, what was wrong with the original statement?
Nothing as I understand it.

Hakan


At 21:25 09/03/2006, you wrote:
>Depends.
>
>Supermarket filtered by the gallon probably runs around $2/gallon.
>
>Name brand around $4/gallon to $20/gallon.
>
>Home delivered 5 gallon jugs ~$1.80/gallon
>Same company 24 .5L is $2.20/gallon
>
>Hakan Falk wrote:
> > Question is how much does a gallon of bottled water cost in US?
> >
> > Hakan
> >
> >
> > At 19:59 09/03/2006, you wrote:
> >
> >> Here's a better one (more current and longer time range)
> >> 
> http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html
> >>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >> Jeromie Reeves wrote:
> >>
> >>> Are you serious? N. America has cheap fuel? Please show me this cheap
> >>> fuel as I pay WAY
> >>> more for a gallon of gas then I do a gallon of bottled water.
> >>>
> >>> Jeromie
> >>>
> >>> Andrew Netherton wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
>
>
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>
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>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Carbon Monoxide in Red Meat - incompetence in the FDA

2006-03-09 Thread Keith Addison

Hi Bob

>In the case of farmed salmon, I believe the dye is added to the diet,
>not the processed flesh, (not that it makes a lot of difference)
>
>http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/123199_dye23.html
>
>similarly, the yolks of commercial eggs are yellow only because large
>amounts of carotenes are added to the diet.  Otherwise the chickens
>which  never leave the house would produce eggs which were essentially
>colorless.

Ulp! Yuk.

Do you happen to know where the added carotene comes from?

Also, do you or does anybody know if battery chickens are fed some or 
other additive to make the eggshells brown rather than white? That 
was being done in the UK in the 70s following market research that 
found a public preference for brown eggs, according to a news report 
I saw at the time, but I never heard anything further about it.

Not surprisingly:

>Donna Fezler of Grand Cypress Ranch did a funded, controlled study 
>of the nutritional value of grocery-store vs free-range eggs. She 
>had three groups of chicks, fed on free-choice non-medicated 
>commercial feed, with one group fed a supplement of cooked 
>free-range eggs twice a day, a second fed the same amount of 
>grocery-store eggs, and the third a control getting only the 
>free-choice feed.
>
>"The grocery store egg fed group ate more than any group by 28 days 
>and weighed the least ... the grocery eggs were actually negative 
>nutrition. The birds in that group had poor feed efficiency, 
>consuming the most feed and having the least weight gain. The 
>free-range egg fed birds were 22.4% heavier than the grocery egg fed 
>birds... There were residual effects of the grocery egg on the 
>chicks' development... There is an issue here: grocery store eggs 
>did not even provide the same nutrition as nothing at all with these 
>chicks."

:-(

Best

Keith


>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Unfortunately, this is allowed in the USA.  For example, dye is used for
> > farmed salmon to give the grey meat a pink color
> >
> >
> >
> > Rachel
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Joe Street
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:04 AM
> > *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Carbon Monoxide in Red Meat - incompetence in
> > the FDA
> >
> >
> >
> > Also red dye is used on meat.  I think this is not allowed in USA but in
> > Canada I'm pretty sure it is legal.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > lres1 wrote:
> >
> > For years the tube lights above the meat storage areas have been
> > emitting slightly red rays to make the meat look red. If you take meat
> > from the meat stall and put it under the lights in the cooler for green
> > veggies you will see the change in color of the meat. The change is also
> > due to a green given off by the tube lights to make the vegetables look
> > fresh. Tube lights (Mercury vapor) with phosphorous lining has been used
> > for years with added chemicals in the tubes to enhance the
> > stalls/coolers where the different foods are on display.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ever wandered why the meat looks red in the chiller and off red at the
> > checkout?
> >
> >
> >
> > Doug.
> >
> > - Original Message -
> >
> > *From:* Kirk McLoren 
> >
> > *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> > 
> >
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:04 AM
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Carbon Monoxide in Red Meat - incompetence
> > in the FDA
> >
> >
> >
> > ***
> > No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
> > No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
> > No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
> >
> > Your mail has been scanned by InterScan.
> > ***-***
> >
> > the people in positions of authority have demonstrated incompetence
> > to deal with economic influence.
> >
> >
> >
> > A useful resource for toxicology is
> >
> > http://www.fpnotebook.com/index.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > lead
> >
> > http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER118.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > CO carbon monoxide
> >
> > http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER116.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > pulmonary intoxicants
> >
> > http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER131.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > unknown ingestion
> >
> > http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER105.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > Kirk
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > */Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>/* wrote:
> >
> > /*/Apparently, the FDA didn't want to feel left out and joined
> > the party./*/
> >
> >
> >
> > **EPA**: C.H.E.E.R.S. program paying poor families to submit
> > children to pesticide testing
> >
> >
> >
> > **FEMA**: All I have to say is - Katrina
> >
> >
> >
> > **FDA**: see below.
> >
> >
> >
> > //Mike//
> >
> > ////
> >
> >
> >
> > //FDA Asked to Prohib

Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread Kirk McLoren

The hybrid could power the house. We could live very differently. And while the hybrid is powering the house if more is needed than is reasonable from the batteries heat is available as well. In fact it would make sense to leave the garage fully charged and have generated where the heat could be used.     Kirk"Thompson, Mark L. (PNB R&D)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  I don't how anyone can justify a Hybrid over a diesel. The financial numbers just don't work. My VW TDI gets (243K mile so far)45 mpg @ City Driving 55 mpg @ 60 mph 50 mpg @ 75 mph My cost is (City) $2.60/45 = 5.8 cents a mile (not includingnormal maintenance)My cost is (Freeway) $2.60/55 = 4.7 cents a mile (not includingnormal maintenance)Average 5.25 cents a mile (50/50 driving)My
 neighbors Prius gets55 mpg @ City Driving 51 mpg @ 60 mph Cost is (City) $2.35/60 = 3.9 cents a mile (not includingnormal maintenance)Cost is (Freeway) $2.35/51 = 4.6 cents a mile (not includingnormal maintenance)Average 4.25 cents a mile (50/50 driving) Plus Battery Deprecation 8 year/100k miles/$7000 $7000/100K = 7 cents/mile Total = 4.25 + 7.00 = 11.25 Cents/Miles Converted to French fuel prices and Taxes:http://www.day-tripper.net/pricespetrol.htmlDiesel = 1.036 euro/Liter Petro(95) = 1.209 euro/Liter Converted (1.19E/usd and 3.79 lt/gal)Diesel = 1.036 * 1.19 * 3.79 = $4.67/gal Petro = 1.209 * 1.19 * 3.79 = $5.45/gal My VW TDI gets (243K mile so far)45 mpg @ City Driving 55 mpg @ 60 mph 50 mpg @ 75 mph My cost is (City) $4.67/45 = 10.4 cents a mile (not includingnormal maintenance)My cost is (Freeway) $4.67/55 = 8.5 cents a mile (not includingnormal
 maintenance)Average 9.45 cents a mile (50/50 driving)My neighbors Prius gets55 mpg @ City Driving 51 mpg @ 60 mph Cost is (City) $5.45/60 = 9.0 cents a mile (not includingnormal maintenance)Cost is (Freeway) $5.45/51 = 10.7 cents a mile (not includingnormal maintenance)Average 9.85 cents a mile (50/50 driving) Plus Battery Deprecation 8 year/100k miles/$7000/19%vat = $8330$8330/100K = 8.3 cents/mile Total = 9.85 + 8.30 = 18.15 Cents/Miles In the US and Europe a diesel is about 1/2 the operating cost of ahybrid. Another thing to consider is maintenance/repair and life expectancy. My last VW diesel Died a honable death at 476,000 miles. My current one is at 243,000 miles and still running strong. My guess is if you can get 200K-250K out of a hybrid gas engine you aredoing good. Also working on diesel is relatively straight forward. Will have to sayVW has coupled the
 computer to the engine quite tightly. It make forinteresting trouble shooting when things are not working perfectly. Mark Andrew Netherton wrote:>I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investment >if they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our >cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America.>>Andrew Netherton>___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
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Re: [Biofuel] Any other lister in Malaysia?

2006-03-09 Thread Samira

So where do they plan to find 500,000t of biodiesel to make the B5 blend? i'm stumped. On 3/9/06, Rexis Tree <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:There is currently no new plans for more biodiesel refinary for local use as i know.
What is in their eye is only business sense, ie to export to europe where the needs for biodiesel is bigger. Anything related to environment or cleaner is simple just part of their advertisement technique. Hopefully that someone did an environmental inpact study to those biorefinary so we wont end up in polluted river or ground water etc.
Actually gov plan is to mandate B5 in 2008:http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/10/malaysia_to_man.html
I really hope this is not a talk-for-fun-only and wish to see action ASAP.
But on the other way, diesel vehicles is taxed many times more then gasoline vehicles in malaysia here. It is rediculous to own and maintance a diesel car. Plus there is not many small diesel available in malaysia. If theres any, the extra price will turn you away.

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Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread Marty Phee

Depends.

Supermarket filtered by the gallon probably runs around $2/gallon.

Name brand around $4/gallon to $20/gallon.

Home delivered 5 gallon jugs ~$1.80/gallon
Same company 24 .5L is $2.20/gallon

Hakan Falk wrote:
> Question is how much does a gallon of bottled water cost in US?
>
> Hakan
>
>
> At 19:59 09/03/2006, you wrote:
>   
>> Here's a better one (more current and longer time range)
>> http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> Jeromie Reeves wrote:
>> 
>>> Are you serious? N. America has cheap fuel? Please show me this cheap
>>> fuel as I pay WAY
>>> more for a gallon of gas then I do a gallon of bottled water.
>>>
>>> Jeromie
>>>
>>> Andrew Netherton wrote:
>>>
>>>   


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Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread robert luis rabello

bob allen wrote:

> particulate emissions?

That's a good question.  How do the modern, common rail direct 
injection diesel engines fare in terms of their particulate emissions? 
  Does anyone know?

robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/



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Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread bob allen

particulate emissions?

Thompson, Mark L. (PNB R&D) wrote:
> I don't how anyone can justify a Hybrid over a diesel. 
> 
> The financial numbers just don't work. 
> 
> My VW TDI gets (243K mile so far)
>   45 mpg @ City Driving 
>   55 mpg @ 60 mph 
>   50 mpg @ 75 mph 
>   
>   My cost is (City)$2.60/45 = 5.8 cents a mile (not including
> normal maintenance)
>   My cost is (Freeway) $2.60/55 = 4.7 cents a mile (not including
> normal maintenance)
>   Average5.25 cents a mile (50/50 driving)
> 
> My neighbors Prius gets
>   55 mpg @ City Driving 
>   51 mpg @ 60 mph  
> 
>  Cost is (City)$2.35/60 = 3.9 cents a mile (not including
> normal maintenance)
>  Cost is (Freeway) $2.35/51 = 4.6 cents a mile (not including
> normal maintenance)
>   Average4.25 cents a mile (50/50 driving)
>   Plus Battery Deprecation  
>   8 year/100k miles/$7000 
>   $7000/100K = 7 cents/mile 
> 
>   Total = 4.25 + 7.00 = 11.25 Cents/Miles 
>   
> 
> Converted to French fuel prices and Taxes:
> http://www.day-tripper.net/pricespetrol.html
> Diesel= 1.036 euro/Liter 
> Petro(95) = 1.209 euro/Liter 
> 
> Converted (1.19E/usd and 3.79 lt/gal)
> Diesel =  1.036 * 1.19 * 3.79 = $4.67/gal 
> Petro  =  1.209 * 1.19 * 3.79 = $5.45/gal 
> 
> My VW TDI gets (243K mile so far)
>   45 mpg @ City Driving 
>   55 mpg @ 60 mph 
>   50 mpg @ 75 mph 
>   
>   My cost is (City)$4.67/45 = 10.4 cents a mile (not including
> normal maintenance)
>   My cost is (Freeway) $4.67/55 =  8.5 cents a mile (not including
> normal maintenance)
>   Average9.45 cents a mile (50/50 driving)
> 
> My neighbors Prius gets
>   55 mpg @ City Driving 
>   51 mpg @ 60 mph  
> 
>  Cost is (City)$5.45/60 =  9.0 cents a mile (not including
> normal maintenance)
>  Cost is (Freeway) $5.45/51 = 10.7 cents a mile (not including
> normal maintenance)
>   Average9.85 cents a mile (50/50 driving)
>   Plus Battery Deprecation  
>   8 year/100k miles/$7000/19%vat = $8330
>   $8330/100K = 8.3 cents/mile 
> 
>   Total = 9.85 + 8.30 = 18.15 Cents/Miles 
> 
> 
> In the US and Europe a diesel is about 1/2 the operating cost of a
> hybrid. 
> 
> Another thing to consider is maintenance/repair and life expectancy. 
> My last VW diesel Died a honable death at 476,000 miles. 
> My current one is at 243,000 miles and still running strong. 
> My guess is if you can get 200K-250K out of a hybrid gas engine you are
> doing good. 
> 
> Also working on diesel is relatively straight forward. Will have to say
> VW has coupled the computer to the engine quite tightly. It make for
> interesting trouble shooting when things are not working perfectly. 
> 
> Mark 
> 
> 
> 
> Andrew Netherton wrote:
> 
>> I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investment 
>> if they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our 
>> cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America.
>>
>> Andrew Netherton
>>
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Bob Allen
http://ozarker.org/bob

"Science is what we have learned about how to keep
from fooling ourselves" — Richard Feynman

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Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread

I don't how anyone can justify a Hybrid over a diesel. 

The financial numbers just don't work. 

My VW TDI gets (243K mile so far)
45 mpg @ City Driving 
55 mpg @ 60 mph 
50 mpg @ 75 mph 

My cost is (City)$2.60/45 = 5.8 cents a mile (not including
normal maintenance)
My cost is (Freeway) $2.60/55 = 4.7 cents a mile (not including
normal maintenance)
Average5.25 cents a mile (50/50 driving)

My neighbors Prius gets
55 mpg @ City Driving 
51 mpg @ 60 mph  

   Cost is (City)$2.35/60 = 3.9 cents a mile (not including
normal maintenance)
   Cost is (Freeway) $2.35/51 = 4.6 cents a mile (not including
normal maintenance)
Average4.25 cents a mile (50/50 driving)
Plus Battery Deprecation  
8 year/100k miles/$7000 
$7000/100K = 7 cents/mile 

Total = 4.25 + 7.00 = 11.25 Cents/Miles 


Converted to French fuel prices and Taxes:
http://www.day-tripper.net/pricespetrol.html
Diesel  = 1.036 euro/Liter 
Petro(95)   = 1.209 euro/Liter 

Converted (1.19E/usd and 3.79 lt/gal)
Diesel =  1.036 * 1.19 * 3.79 = $4.67/gal 
Petro  =  1.209 * 1.19 * 3.79 = $5.45/gal 

My VW TDI gets (243K mile so far)
45 mpg @ City Driving 
55 mpg @ 60 mph 
50 mpg @ 75 mph 

My cost is (City)$4.67/45 = 10.4 cents a mile (not including
normal maintenance)
My cost is (Freeway) $4.67/55 =  8.5 cents a mile (not including
normal maintenance)
Average9.45 cents a mile (50/50 driving)

My neighbors Prius gets
55 mpg @ City Driving 
51 mpg @ 60 mph  

   Cost is (City)$5.45/60 =  9.0 cents a mile (not including
normal maintenance)
   Cost is (Freeway) $5.45/51 = 10.7 cents a mile (not including
normal maintenance)
Average9.85 cents a mile (50/50 driving)
Plus Battery Deprecation  
8 year/100k miles/$7000/19%vat = $8330
$8330/100K = 8.3 cents/mile 

Total = 9.85 + 8.30 = 18.15 Cents/Miles 


In the US and Europe a diesel is about 1/2 the operating cost of a
hybrid. 

Another thing to consider is maintenance/repair and life expectancy. 
My last VW diesel Died a honable death at 476,000 miles. 
My current one is at 243,000 miles and still running strong. 
My guess is if you can get 200K-250K out of a hybrid gas engine you are
doing good. 

Also working on diesel is relatively straight forward. Will have to say
VW has coupled the computer to the engine quite tightly. It make for
interesting trouble shooting when things are not working perfectly. 

Mark 



Andrew Netherton wrote:

>I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investment 
>if they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our 
>cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America.
>
>Andrew Netherton
>

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Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread oscar

Hi:

I pay 1.18 US per liter of a 90 RON gas for my car in Peru!!

Oscar Orbegoso Montalva
Jefe del Centro de Servicios Económicos de Tarapoto
Proyecto PRA
Teléfono fijo  042 522633 / 528244
Teléfono celular 042 9695265
http://www.proyectopra.com
 
-Mensaje original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] En nombre de Chip Mefford
Enviado el: Jueves, 09 de Marzo de 2006 01:54 p.m.
Para: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Asunto: Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

Jeromie Reeves wrote:
> Are you serious? N. America has cheap fuel? Please show me this cheap 
> fuel as I pay WAY
> more for a gallon of gas then I do a gallon of bottled water.
> 
> Jeromie

Would depend on your bottled water.

retail bottled water usually runs in excess of
$1 per litre.

retail gasoline is far shy of that.

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Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread Hakan Falk

Question is how much does a gallon of bottled water cost in US?

Hakan

At 19:59 09/03/2006, you wrote:
>Here's a better one (more current and longer time range)
>http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html
>
>Joe
>
>Jeromie Reeves wrote:
>>
>>Are you serious? N. America has cheap fuel? Please show me this cheap
>>fuel as I pay WAY
>>more for a gallon of gas then I do a gallon of bottled water.
>>
>>Jeromie
>>
>>Andrew Netherton wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investment
>>>if they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our
>>>cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America.
>>>
>>>Andrew Netherton
>>>
>>>
>>>On 3/9/06, AltEnergyNetwork 
>>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>

Research Shows Only two out Six Hybrid Cars Recoup Cost Within 5 Years

< http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >

Yonkers, NY - Consumer Reports is revising the cost analysis
in a story that examines the ownership costs and financial
  benefits associated with hybrid cars. The story, titled
  "The dollars and sense of hybrids," appears in the Annual April
   Auto issue of CR, on newsstands now.

Consumer Reports is correcting a calculation error involving
the depreciation for the six hybrid vehicles that, in the
story, were compared to their conventionally powered
counterparts. The error led the publication to overstate
  how much extra money the hybrids will cost owners during
   the first five years.

full article

< http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >

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Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread Joe Street





Here's a better one (more current and longer time range)
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/international/gas1.html

Joe

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

  Are you serious? N. America has cheap fuel? Please show me this cheap 
fuel as I pay WAY
more for a gallon of gas then I do a gallon of bottled water.

Jeromie

Andrew Netherton wrote:

  
  
I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investment
if they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our
cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America.

Andrew Netherton


On 3/9/06, AltEnergyNetwork <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 



  Research Shows Only two out Six Hybrid Cars Recoup Cost Within 5 Years

< http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >

Yonkers, NY - Consumer Reports is revising the cost analysis
in a story that examines the ownership costs and financial
 benefits associated with hybrid cars. The story, titled
 "The dollars and sense of hybrids," appears in the Annual April
  Auto issue of CR, on newsstands now.

Consumer Reports is correcting a calculation error involving
the depreciation for the six hybrid vehicles that, in the
story, were compared to their conventionally powered
counterparts. The error led the publication to overstate
 how much extra money the hybrids will cost owners during
  the first five years.



full article

< http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >





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Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread Joe Street





Hey Andrew don't forget we are sitting on a virtual goldmine in terms
of fresh water here in Canada.  In many places in the USA I've heard
they are already feeling the pinch for water and it is getting worse. 
I'm wondering if we could set something up where maybe we could use
beavers as a slave labour force in the water trade.  What do you say?

Joe

Andrew Netherton wrote:

  I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investment
if they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our
cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America.

Andrew Netherton


On 3/9/06, AltEnergyNetwork <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
  
Research Shows Only two out Six Hybrid Cars Recoup Cost Within 5 Years

< http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >

Yonkers, NY - Consumer Reports is revising the cost analysis
 in a story that examines the ownership costs and financial
  benefits associated with hybrid cars. The story, titled
  "The dollars and sense of hybrids," appears in the Annual April
   Auto issue of CR, on newsstands now.

Consumer Reports is correcting a calculation error involving
 the depreciation for the six hybrid vehicles that, in the
 story, were compared to their conventionally powered
 counterparts. The error led the publication to overstate
  how much extra money the hybrids will cost owners during
   the first five years.



full article

< http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >





Get your daily alternative energy news

 Alternate Energy Resource Network
   1000+ news sources-resources
 updated daily

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Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread Joe Street





Here's a link I just found on Google for example
http://www.bairdpetro.com/gasoline_prices/index.htm

J

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

  Are you serious? N. America has cheap fuel? Please show me this cheap 
fuel as I pay WAY
more for a gallon of gas then I do a gallon of bottled water.

Jeromie

Andrew Netherton wrote:

  
  
I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investment
if they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our
cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America.

Andrew Netherton


On 3/9/06, AltEnergyNetwork <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 



  Research Shows Only two out Six Hybrid Cars Recoup Cost Within 5 Years

< http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >

Yonkers, NY - Consumer Reports is revising the cost analysis
in a story that examines the ownership costs and financial
 benefits associated with hybrid cars. The story, titled
 "The dollars and sense of hybrids," appears in the Annual April
  Auto issue of CR, on newsstands now.

Consumer Reports is correcting a calculation error involving
the depreciation for the six hybrid vehicles that, in the
story, were compared to their conventionally powered
counterparts. The error led the publication to overstate
 how much extra money the hybrids will cost owners during
  the first five years.



full article

< http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >





Get your daily alternative energy news

Alternate Energy Resource Network
  1000+ news sources-resources
updated daily

http://www.alternate-energy.net


Next Generation Grid
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Tomorrow-energy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/


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Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread Chip Mefford

Jeromie Reeves wrote:
> Are you serious? N. America has cheap fuel? Please show me this cheap 
> fuel as I pay WAY
> more for a gallon of gas then I do a gallon of bottled water.
> 
> Jeromie

Would depend on your bottled water.

retail bottled water usually runs in excess of
$1 per litre.

retail gasoline is far shy of that.

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Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread Joe Street





Take a trip to England or anywhere in Europe and don't forget to rent a
car while you are there.  When you get back tell us how it went!
LOL

Joe

Jeromie Reeves wrote:

  Are you serious? N. America has cheap fuel? Please show me this cheap 
fuel as I pay WAY
more for a gallon of gas then I do a gallon of bottled water.

Jeromie

Andrew Netherton wrote:

  
  
I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investment
if they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our
cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America.

Andrew Netherton


On 3/9/06, AltEnergyNetwork <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 



  Research Shows Only two out Six Hybrid Cars Recoup Cost Within 5 Years

< http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >

Yonkers, NY - Consumer Reports is revising the cost analysis
in a story that examines the ownership costs and financial
 benefits associated with hybrid cars. The story, titled
 "The dollars and sense of hybrids," appears in the Annual April
  Auto issue of CR, on newsstands now.

Consumer Reports is correcting a calculation error involving
the depreciation for the six hybrid vehicles that, in the
story, were compared to their conventionally powered
counterparts. The error led the publication to overstate
 how much extra money the hybrids will cost owners during
  the first five years.



full article

< http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >





Get your daily alternative energy news

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  1000+ news sources-resources
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Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread Jeromie Reeves

Are you serious? N. America has cheap fuel? Please show me this cheap 
fuel as I pay WAY
more for a gallon of gas then I do a gallon of bottled water.

Jeromie

Andrew Netherton wrote:

>I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investment
>if they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our
>cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America.
>
>Andrew Netherton
>
>
>On 3/9/06, AltEnergyNetwork <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
>
>>Research Shows Only two out Six Hybrid Cars Recoup Cost Within 5 Years
>>
>>< http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >
>>
>>Yonkers, NY - Consumer Reports is revising the cost analysis
>> in a story that examines the ownership costs and financial
>>  benefits associated with hybrid cars. The story, titled
>>  "The dollars and sense of hybrids," appears in the Annual April
>>   Auto issue of CR, on newsstands now.
>>
>>Consumer Reports is correcting a calculation error involving
>> the depreciation for the six hybrid vehicles that, in the
>> story, were compared to their conventionally powered
>> counterparts. The error led the publication to overstate
>>  how much extra money the hybrids will cost owners during
>>   the first five years.
>>
>>
>>
>>full article
>>
>>< http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Get your daily alternative energy news
>>
>> Alternate Energy Resource Network
>>   1000+ news sources-resources
>> updated daily
>>
>>http://www.alternate-energy.net
>>
>>
>>Next Generation Grid
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/
>>
>>
>>Tomorrow-energy
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/
>>
>>
>>Alternative Energy Politics
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/
>>
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [Biofuel] The Coming Resource Wars

2006-03-09 Thread Kirk McLoren

This is probably accurate prophecy but part of the reason is because it is the business model. A lot of established people want war. If the same effort and expense were put into alternatives there doesnt need to be a war.     KirkKeith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/03/07/the_coming_resource_wars.phpThe Coming Resource WarsMichael T. KlareMarch 07, 2006Michael T. Klare is a professor of peace and world security studies at Hampshire College and the author of Resource Wars and Blood and Oil, both available in paperback from Owl Books.It's official: the era of resource wars is upon us. In a major London address, British Defense Secretary John Reid warned that global climate change and dwindling natural resources are
 combining to increase the likelihood of violent conflict over land, water and energy. Climate change, he indicated, "will make scarce resources, clean water, viable agricultural land even scarcer"-and this will "make the emergence of violent conflict more rather than less likely."Although not unprecedented, Reid's prediction of an upsurge in resource conflict is significant both because of his senior rank and the vehemence of his remarks. "The blunt truth is that the lack of water and agricultural land is a significant contributory factor to the tragic conflict we see unfolding in Darfur," he declared. "We should see this as a warning sign."Resource conflicts of this type are most likely to arise in the developing world, Reid indicated, but the more advanced and affluent countries are not likely to be spared the damaging and destabilizing effects of global climate change. With sea levels rising, water and energy
 becoming increasingly scarce and prime agricultural lands turning into deserts, internecine warfare over access to vital resources will become a global phenomenon.Reid's speech, delivered at the prestigious Chatham House in London (Britain's equivalent of the Council on Foreign Relations), is but the most recent _expression_ of a growing trend in strategic circles to view environmental and resource effects-rather than political orientation and ideology-as the most potent source of armed conflict in the decades to come. With the world population rising, global consumption rates soaring, energy supplies rapidly disappearing and climate change eradicating valuable farmland, the stage is being set for persistent and worldwide struggles over vital resources. Religious and political strife will not disappear in this scenario, but rather will be channeled into contests over valuable sources of water, food and energy.Prior to
 Reid's address, the most significant _expression_ of this outlook was a report prepared for the U.S. Department of Defense by a California-based consulting firm in October 2003. Entitled "An Abrupt Climate Change Scenario and Its Implications for United States National Security," the report warned that global climate change is more likely to result in sudden, cataclysmic environmental events rather than a gradual (and therefore manageable) rise in average temperatures. Such events could include a substantial increase in global sea levels, intense storms and hurricanes and continent-wide "dust bowl" effects. This would trigger pitched battles between the survivors of these effects for access to food, water, habitable land and energy supplies."Violence and disruption stemming from the stresses created by abrupt changes in the climate pose a different type of threat to national security than we are accustomed to today," the 2003
 report noted. "Military confrontation may be triggered by a desperate need for natural resources such as energy, food and water rather than by conflicts over ideology, religion or national honor."Until now, this mode of analysis has failed to command the attention of top American and British policymakers. For the most part, they insist that ideological and religious differences-notably, the clash between values of tolerance and democracy on one hand and extremist forms of Islam on the other-remain the main drivers of international conflict. But Reid's speech at Chatham House suggests that a major shift in strategic thinking may be under way. Environmental perils may soon dominate the world security agenda.This shift is due in part to the growing weight of evidence pointing to a significant human role in altering the planet's basic climate systems. Recent studies showing the rapid shrinkage of the polar ice caps, the
 accelerated melting of North American glaciers, the increased frequency of severe hurricanes and a number of other such effects all suggest that dramatic and potentially harmful changes to the global climate have begun to occur. More importantly, they conclude that human behavior-most importantly, the burning of fossil fuels in factories, power plants, and motor vehicles-is the most likely cause of these changes. This assessment may not have yet penetrated the White House and other bastions of h

Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread Paul S Cantrell

Or for that matter, an off-peak plug-in hybrid.On 3/9/06, Andrew Netherton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investmentif they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our
cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America.Andrew NethertonOn 3/9/06, AltEnergyNetwork <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>
> Research Shows Only two out Six Hybrid Cars Recoup Cost Within 5 Years>> < http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news
 >>> Yonkers, NY - Consumer Reports is revising the cost analysis>  in a story that examines the ownership costs and financial>   benefits associated with hybrid cars. The story, titled
>   "The dollars and sense of hybrids," appears in the Annual April>Auto issue of CR, on newsstands now.>> Consumer Reports is correcting a calculation error involving>  the depreciation for the six hybrid vehicles that, in the
>  story, were compared to their conventionally powered>  counterparts. The error led the publication to overstate>   how much extra money the hybrids will cost owners during>the first five years.
 full article>> < http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >
>> Get your daily alternative energy news>>  Alternate Energy Resource Network>1000+ news sources-resources>  updated daily>> 
http://www.alternate-energy.net>>> Next Generation Grid> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/
>>> Tomorrow-energy> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/>>> Alternative Energy Politics> 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ ___> Biofuel mailing list
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Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread Andrew Netherton

I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investment
if they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our
cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America.

Andrew Netherton


On 3/9/06, AltEnergyNetwork <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Research Shows Only two out Six Hybrid Cars Recoup Cost Within 5 Years
>
> < http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >
>
> Yonkers, NY - Consumer Reports is revising the cost analysis
>  in a story that examines the ownership costs and financial
>   benefits associated with hybrid cars. The story, titled
>   "The dollars and sense of hybrids," appears in the Annual April
>Auto issue of CR, on newsstands now.
>
> Consumer Reports is correcting a calculation error involving
>  the depreciation for the six hybrid vehicles that, in the
>  story, were compared to their conventionally powered
>  counterparts. The error led the publication to overstate
>   how much extra money the hybrids will cost owners during
>the first five years.
>
>
>
> full article
>
> < http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >
>
>
>
>
>
> Get your daily alternative energy news
>
>  Alternate Energy Resource Network
>1000+ news sources-resources
>  updated daily
>
> http://www.alternate-energy.net
>
>
> Next Generation Grid
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/
>
>
> Tomorrow-energy
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/
>
>
> Alternative Energy Politics
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/
>
>
>
> ___
> Biofuel mailing list
> Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
>
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> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
>
>

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[Biofuel] Thanx Keith

2006-03-09 Thread Andy Karpay


Thanks Keith.  I'm back IN, receiving, and loving it.



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Re: [Biofuel] Carbon Monoxide in Red Meat - incompetence in the FDA

2006-03-09 Thread bob allen

In the case of farmed salmon, I believe the dye is added to the diet, 
not the processed flesh, (not that it makes a lot of difference)

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/123199_dye23.html

similarly, the yolks of commercial eggs are yellow only because large 
amounts of carotenes are added to the diet.  Otherwise the chickens 
which  never leave the house would produce eggs which were essentially 
colorless.



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Unfortunately, this is allowed in the USA.  For example, dye is used for 
> farmed salmon to give the grey meat a pink color
> 
>  
> 
> Rachel
> 
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Joe Street
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 6:04 AM
> *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Carbon Monoxide in Red Meat - incompetence in 
> the FDA
> 
>  
> 
> Also red dye is used on meat.  I think this is not allowed in USA but in 
> Canada I'm pretty sure it is legal.
> 
> Joe
> 
> lres1 wrote:
> 
> For years the tube lights above the meat storage areas have been 
> emitting slightly red rays to make the meat look red. If you take meat 
> from the meat stall and put it under the lights in the cooler for green 
> veggies you will see the change in color of the meat. The change is also 
> due to a green given off by the tube lights to make the vegetables look 
> fresh. Tube lights (Mercury vapor) with phosphorous lining has been used 
> for years with added chemicals in the tubes to enhance the 
> stalls/coolers where the different foods are on display.
> 
>  
> 
> Ever wandered why the meat looks red in the chiller and off red at the 
> checkout?
> 
>  
> 
> Doug.
> 
> - Original Message -
> 
> *From:* Kirk McLoren 
> 
> *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> 
> 
> *Sent:* Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:04 AM
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Carbon Monoxide in Red Meat - incompetence
> in the FDA
> 
>  
> 
> ***
> No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
> No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
> No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
> 
> Your mail has been scanned by InterScan.
> ***-***
> 
> the people in positions of authority have demonstrated incompetence
> to deal with economic influence.
> 
>  
> 
> A useful resource for toxicology is
> 
> http://www.fpnotebook.com/index.htm
> 
>  
> 
> lead
> 
> http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER118.htm
> 
>  
> 
> CO carbon monoxide
> 
> http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER116.htm
> 
>  
> 
> pulmonary intoxicants
> 
> http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER131.htm
> 
>  
> 
> unknown ingestion
> 
> http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER105.htm
> 
>  
> 
> Kirk
> 
>  
> 
> 
> */Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> /* wrote:
> 
> /*/Apparently, the FDA didn't want to feel left out and joined
> the party./*/
> 
>  
> 
> **EPA**: C.H.E.E.R.S. program paying poor families to submit
> children to pesticide testing
> 
>  
> 
> **FEMA**: All I have to say is - Katrina
> 
>  
> 
> **FDA**: see below.
> 
>  
> 
> //Mike//
> 
> ////
> 
>  
> 
> //FDA Asked to Prohibit use of Carbon Monoxide in Red Meat//
> 
> //February 21, 2006///
> /
> A Michigan company has filed a petition asking the Food and Drug
> Administration (FDA) to stop the use of carbon monoxide in
> supermarket meat.
> 
>  
> 
> The use of carbon monoxide deceives consumers and creates an
> unnecessary risk of food poisoning by enabling meat and ground
> beef to remain fresh-looking beyond the point at which typical
> color changes would indicate ageing or bacterial spoilage,
> according to Kalsec, Inc. of Kalamazoo, Michigan, a
> privately-held supplier of natural spice, herb, hop, and
> vegetable extracts for use in food, beverage, and pharmaceutical
> applications
> 
>  
> 
> Kalsec's petition urged the FDA to withdraw its July 2004
> decision and related decisions to allow the presence of carbon
> monoxide in meat packaging.
> 
> "The FDA should not have accepted carbon monoxide in meat
> without doing its own independent evaluation of the safety
> implications," said Elizabeth Campbell, former head of FDA's
> Office of Food Labeling and now a consultant with AAC Consulting
> Group.
> 
> The FDA accepted the practice under its "Generally Recognized As
> Safe" procedure, meaning that the FDA conducted no independent
> safety investigations on its own, but instead relied on industry

[Biofuel] Ooops! - Re: The Coming Resource Wars

2006-03-09 Thread Keith Addison

Sorry for the double post folks, slip of the tongue, er, the thumb, 
um, the brain... :-(

Keith



>http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/03/07/the_coming_resource_wars.php
>
>The Coming Resource Wars
>
>Michael T. Klare
>
>March 07, 2006



 


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[Biofuel] hybrid efficiency

2006-03-09 Thread AltEnergyNetwork


Research Shows Only two out Six Hybrid Cars Recoup Cost Within 5 Years 

< http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >

Yonkers, NY - Consumer Reports is revising the cost analysis
 in a story that examines the ownership costs and financial
  benefits associated with hybrid cars. The story, titled 
  "The dollars and sense of hybrids," appears in the Annual April
   Auto issue of CR, on newsstands now.

Consumer Reports is correcting a calculation error involving
 the depreciation for the six hybrid vehicles that, in the 
 story, were compared to their conventionally powered 
 counterparts. The error led the publication to overstate
  how much extra money the hybrids will cost owners during
   the first five years.



full article

< http://www.alternate-energy.net/N/news.php?detail=n1141917443.news >





Get your daily alternative energy news
   
 Alternate Energy Resource Network
   1000+ news sources-resources
 updated daily

http://www.alternate-energy.net


Next Generation Grid
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/


Tomorrow-energy
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/


Alternative Energy Politics
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/



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Re: [Biofuel] Carbon Monoxide in Red Meat - incompetence in the FDA

2006-03-09 Thread rclark










Unfortunately, this is allowed in the USA.  For example, dye is
used for farmed salmon to give the grey meat a pink color

 

Rachel

 

-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Street
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006
6:04 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Carbon
Monoxide in Red Meat - incompetence in the FDA

 

Also red dye is used on
meat.  I think this is not allowed in USA but in Canada I'm pretty sure it
is legal.

Joe

lres1 wrote:





For years the tube lights
above the meat storage areas have been emitting slightly red rays to make the
meat look red. If you take meat from the meat stall and put it under the lights
in the cooler for green veggies you will see the change in color of the meat.
The change is also due to a green given off by the tube lights to make the
vegetables look fresh. Tube lights (Mercury vapor) with phosphorous lining has
been used for years with added chemicals in the tubes to enhance the
stalls/coolers where the different foods are on display.





 





Ever wandered why the
meat looks red in the chiller and off red at the checkout?





 





Doug.







- Original
Message - 





From: Kirk McLoren






To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org






Sent: Thursday,
March 09, 2006 8:04 AM





Subject: Re:
[Biofuel] Carbon Monoxide in Red Meat - incompetence in the FDA





 




 
  
  ***
  No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
  No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
  No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
  
  Your mail has been scanned by InterScan.
  ***-***
  
 




the people in positions
of authority have demonstrated incompetence to deal with economic influence.





 





A useful resource for
toxicology is





http://www.fpnotebook.com/index.htm





 





lead





http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER118.htm





 





CO carbon monoxide





http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER116.htm





 





pulmonary intoxicants





http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER131.htm





 





unknown ingestion





http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER105.htm





 





Kirk





 






Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:







Apparently,
the FDA didn't want to feel left out and joined the party.





 





EPA:
C.H.E.E.R.S. program paying poor families to submit children to pesticide
testing





 





FEMA:
All I have to say is - Katrina





 





FDA:
see below.





 





Mike











 





FDA Asked to Prohibit use
of Carbon Monoxide in Red Meat





February 21, 2006

A Michigan company has filed a petition asking the Food and Drug Administration
(FDA) to stop the use of carbon monoxide in supermarket meat.





 





The use of carbon
monoxide deceives consumers and creates an unnecessary risk of food poisoning
by enabling meat and ground beef to remain fresh-looking beyond the point at
which typical color changes would indicate ageing or bacterial spoilage,
according to Kalsec, Inc. of Kalamazoo, Michigan, a privately-held supplier of
natural spice, herb, hop, and vegetable extracts for use in food, beverage, and
pharmaceutical applications





 





Kalsec's petition urged
the FDA to withdraw its July 2004 decision and related decisions to allow the
presence of carbon monoxide in meat packaging.

"The FDA should not have accepted carbon monoxide in meat without doing
its own independent evaluation of the safety implications," said Elizabeth
Campbell, former head of FDA's Office of Food Labeling and now a consultant
with AAC Consulting Group.

The FDA accepted the practice under its "Generally Recognized As
Safe" procedure, meaning that the FDA conducted no independent safety
investigations on its own, but instead relied on industry claims, research and
documentation.

Carbon monoxide makes meat appear fresher than it actually is by reacting with
the meat pigment myoglobin to create carboxymyoglobin, a bright red pigment
that masks the natural aging and spoilage of meats.

Carbon monoxide-treated meats are currently being sold to consumers without any
notice that the meat has been treated with carbon monoxide.

"Carbon monoxide simulates the appearance of freshness, so consumers may
actually believe meat is fresh and safe when it may be neither," said Dr.
Don Berdahl, Vice President and Technical Director of Kalsec. "We hope the
FDA acts quickly to end this deceptive, potentially dangerous practice."

The appearance of meat, and specifically its color, is the primary factor in
consumers' decisions to buy a product, Berdahl said. The use of carbon monoxide
in meat makes it impossible for consumers to know with certainty about the
meat's freshness merely by looking at it.

Treating meat with carbon monoxide could hide the growth of pathogens, such as
Clostridium Botulinum, Salmonella and E. coli O157:H7.

If meat is bought spoiled, refrigerated improperly or used after these
p

[Biofuel] Indian Point Nuclear Facility - FYI

2006-03-09 Thread Michael Redler

FYI: I live 2.6 miles from the Indian Point nuclear facility (one of the country's worst safety violators). Yesterday, the civil defense sirens malfunctioned. I quickly got in my car and started heading away from the Hudson until I realized that it was a false alarm.     Pandora's box is made of lead.      Mike___
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Re: [Biofuel] Carbon Monoxide in Red Meat - incompetence in the FDA

2006-03-09 Thread Joe Street





Also red dye is used on meat.  I think this is not allowed in USA but
in Canada I'm pretty sure it is legal.

Joe

lres1 wrote:

  
  
  
  For years the tube lights above the meat storage
areas have been emitting slightly red rays to make the meat look red.
If you take meat from the meat stall and put it under the lights in the
cooler for green veggies you will see the change in color of the meat.
The change is also due to a green given off by the tube lights to make
the vegetables look fresh. Tube lights (Mercury vapor) with phosphorous
lining has been used for years with added chemicals in the tubes to
enhance the stalls/coolers where the different foods are on display.
   
  Ever wandered why the meat looks red in the
chiller and off red at the checkout?
   
  Doug.
  
-
Original Message - 
From:
Kirk
McLoren 
To:
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

Sent:
Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:04 AM
Subject:
Re: [Biofuel] Carbon Monoxide in Red Meat - incompetence in the FDA



  

  ***
No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
No virus was detected in the attachment no filename
  
Your mail has been scanned by InterScan.
***-***
  
  

  

the people in positions of authority have demonstrated
incompetence to deal with economic influence.
 
A useful resource for toxicology is
http://www.fpnotebook.com/index.htm
 
lead
http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER118.htm
 
CO carbon monoxide
http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER116.htm
 
pulmonary intoxicants
http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER131.htm
 
unknown ingestion
http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER105.htm
 
Kirk
 

Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  Apparently, the FDA didn't want to feel left out
and joined the party.
   
  EPA: C.H.E.E.R.S. program paying poor
families to submit children to pesticide testing
   
  FEMA: All I have to say is - Katrina
   
  FDA: see below.
   
  Mike
  
   
  FDA Asked to Prohibit use of Carbon
Monoxide in Red Meat
  February 21, 2006
  
A Michigan company has filed a petition asking the Food and Drug
Administration (FDA) to stop the use of carbon monoxide in supermarket
meat.
   
  The use of carbon monoxide
deceives consumers and creates an unnecessary risk of food poisoning by
enabling meat and ground beef to remain fresh-looking beyond the point
at which typical color changes would indicate ageing or bacterial
spoilage, according to Kalsec, Inc. of Kalamazoo, Michigan, a
privately-held supplier of natural spice, herb, hop, and vegetable
extracts for use in food, beverage, and pharmaceutical applications
   
  Kalsec's petition urged the
FDA to withdraw its July 2004 decision and related decisions to allow
the presence of carbon monoxide in meat packaging.
  
  "The FDA should not have accepted carbon
monoxide in meat without doing its own independent evaluation of the
safety implications," said Elizabeth Campbell, former head of FDA's
Office of Food Labeling and now a consultant with AAC Consulting Group.
  
  The FDA accepted the practice under its
"Generally Recognized As Safe" procedure, meaning that the FDA
conducted no independent safety investigations on its own, but instead
relied on industry claims, research and documentation.
  
  Carbon monoxide makes meat appear fresher
than it actually is by reacting with the meat pigment myoglobin to
create carboxymyoglobin, a bright red pigment that masks the natural
aging and spoilage of meats.
  
  Carbon monoxide-treated meats are currently
being sold to consumers without any notice that the meat has been
treated with carbon monoxide.
  
  "Carbon monoxide simulates the appearance
of freshness, so consumers may actually believe meat is fresh and safe
when it may be neither," said Dr. Don Berdahl, Vice President and
Technical Director of Kalsec. "We hope the FDA acts quickly to end this
deceptive, potentially dangerous practice."
  
  The appearance of meat, and specifically
its color, is the primary factor in consumers' decisions to buy a
product, Berdahl said. The use of carbon monoxide in meat makes it
impossible for consumers to know with certainty about the meat's
freshness merely by looking at it.
  
  Treating meat with carbon monoxide could
hide the growth of pathogens, such as Clostridium Botulinum, Salmonella
and E. coli O157:H7.
  
  If meat is bought spoiled, refrigerated
improperly or used after these pathogens begin to grow, even proper
cooking might not be sufficient to render the food safe to eat, because
certain bacteria produce toxins that survive the cooking process, he
said.
  
  The petition claims the FDA ill

Re: [Biofuel] first time confusion

2006-03-09 Thread Joe Street





Hi R.

I can't comment on the HEET as I haven't used it but you haven't given
us anything about the nature of the problem other than saying not
getting a good reaction. It's probably safe to assume that if it is on
the site and people have used it, it works. It's still possible your
lye is old and carbonated or your oil is not dry or a few other things
are not right. As noted in a recent post the most important variables
are good mixing, proper temperature, precision with measures. You
haven't said if your reactions are not going far enough or if you are
having problems with soaps??  There is lots of good info on
troubleshooting on J2F and in the archives though and if you provide
mere details list members can advise what to try.

Joe

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As I am processing my first test batches of
biodiesel, I have problems finding answers to the following questions.
Can anyone throw me a bone here?
  
1. I am using Lewis red devil lye. The jar says it is 100% lye and it
contains sodium hydroxide, but I cannot find an MSDS or anyone at the
company that will tell me how pure the lye is. Does anybody know if
this stuff is good enough?
  
2. I am using HEET brand fuel line dryer as suggested on the JTF
website. It says it contains methyl alcohol but, again, i cannot get an
indication of how much. I am concerned that the formula may have
changed in recent years that may make HEET unsuitable for biodisel
processing. I finally found a good source for reliable 99% pure
methanol but i am curious if anybody knows if HEET is still good?
  
I ask these questions because after my 5th attempt at processing I am
not getting a good reaction. If my materials are not up to snuff then
perhaps the website may want to mention something, such as not using
HEET or lewis red devil lye, so that other beginners wont waste their
time. Thank you very much.
R. Allison
  

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[Biofuel] Just How Addicted to Oil Are We?

2006-03-09 Thread Keith Addison

http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/columns/2006/02/how_addicted_to_ 
oil-2.html

Just How Addicted to Oil Are We?

Commentary: Considering the permanent energy crisis

By Michael T. Klare

February 10, 2006

President Bush's State of the Union comment that the United States is 
"addicted to oil" can be read as pure political opportunism. With 
ever more Americans expressing anxiety about high oil prices, 
freakish weather patterns, and abiding American ties to unsavory 
foreign oil potentates, it is hardly surprising that Bush sought to 
portray himself as an advocate of the development of alternative 
energy systems. But there is another, more ominous way to read his 
comments: that top officials have come to realize that the United 
States and the rest of the world face a new and growing danger - a 
permanent energy crisis that imperils the health and well-being of 
every society on earth.

To be sure, the United States has experienced severe energy crises 
before: the 1973-74 "oil shock" with its mile-long gas lines; the 
1979-80 crisis following the fall of the Shah of Iran; the 2000-01 
electricity blackouts in California, among others. But the crisis 
taking shape in 2006 has a new look to it. First of all, it is likely 
to last for decades, not just months or a handful of years; second, 
it will engulf the entire planet, not just a few countries; and 
finally, it will do more than just cripple the global economy -- its 
political, military, and environmental effects will be equally severe.

If you had to date it, you could say that our permanent energy crisis 
began, appropriately enough, on New Year's Day, 2006, when Russia's 
state-owned natural gas monopoly, Gazprom, cut off gas deliveries to 
Ukraine in punishment for that country's pro-Western leanings. 
Although Gazprom has since resumed some deliveries, it is now evident 
that Moscow is fully prepared to employ its abundant energy reserves 
as a political weapon at a time of looming natural gas shortages 
worldwide. It won't be the last country to do so in the years to 
come. In just the few weeks since then, the world has experienced a 
series of similar energy-related disturbances:

* The sabotage of natural gas pipelines to the former Soviet republic 
of Georgia, producing widespread public discomfort at a time of 
unusually frigid temperatures;

* An eruption of oil-related ethnic violence in Nigeria, resulting in 
a sharp reduction in that country's petroleum output;

* Threats by Iran to cut off exports of oil and gas in retaliation 
for any sanctions imposed by the U.N. Security Council over its 
suspect nuclear enrichment activities;

* And as result of such developments, a series of mini-spikes in 
crude oil prices as well as reports in the business press that, if 
this pattern of instability continues, such prices could easily rise 
beyond $80 per barrel to hit the once unimaginable $100 per barrel 
range.

Vectors of Crisis

Events like these will certainly spread economic pain and hardship 
globally, especially to those who cannot afford higher transportation 
and heating-fuel costs. As it happens, though, these are not 
isolated, unrelated events. Think of them as expressions of a deeper 
crisis. Like the tremors before a major earthquake, they suggest the 
dangerous accumulation of powerful energy forces that will roil the 
planet for years to come.

Although we cannot hope to foresee all the ways such forces will 
affect the global human community, the primary vectors of the 
permanent energy crisis can be identified and charted. Three such 
vectors, in particular, demand attention: a slowing in the growth of 
energy supplies at a time of accelerating worldwide demand; rising 
political instability provoked by geopolitical competition for those 
supplies; and mounting environmental woes produced by our continuing 
addiction to oil, natural gas, and coal. Each of these would be cause 
enough for worry, but it is their intersection that we need to fear 
above all.

Energy experts have long warned that global oil and gas supplies are 
not likely to be sufficiently expandable to meet anticipated demand. 
As far back as the mid-1990s, peak-oil theorists like Kenneth 
Deffeyes of Princeton University and Colin Campbell of the 
Association for the Study of Peak Oil (ASPO) insisted that the world 
was heading for a peak-oil moment and would soon face declining 
petroleum output. At first, most mainstream experts dismissed these 
claims as simplistic and erroneous, while government officials and 
representatives of the big oil companies derided them. Recently, 
however, a sea-change in elite opinion has been evident. First 
Matthew Simmons, the chairman of Simmons and Company International of 
Houston, America's leading energy-industry investment bank, and then 
David O'Reilly, CEO of Chevron, the country's second largest oil 
firm, broke ranks with their fellow oil magnates and embraced the 
peak-oil thesis. O'Reilly has been partic

[Biofuel] The Coming Resource Wars

2006-03-09 Thread Keith Addison

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/03/07/the_coming_resource_wars.php

The Coming Resource Wars

Michael T. Klare

March 07, 2006

Michael T. Klare is a professor of peace and world security studies 
at Hampshire College and the author of Resource Wars and Blood and 
Oil, both available in paperback from Owl Books.

It's official: the era of resource wars is upon us.  In a major 
London address, British Defense Secretary John Reid warned that 
global climate change and dwindling natural resources are combining 
to increase the likelihood of violent conflict over land, water and 
energy.  Climate change, he indicated, "will make scarce resources, 
clean water, viable agricultural land even scarcer"-and this will 
"make the emergence of violent conflict more rather than less likely."

Although not unprecedented, Reid's prediction of an upsurge in 
resource conflict is significant both because of his senior rank and 
the vehemence of his remarks.  "The blunt truth is that the lack of 
water and agricultural land is a significant contributory factor to 
the tragic conflict we see unfolding in Darfur," he declared.  "We 
should see this as a warning sign."

Resource conflicts of this type are most likely to arise in the 
developing world, Reid indicated, but the more advanced and affluent 
countries are not likely to be spared the damaging and destabilizing 
effects of global climate change.  With sea levels rising, water and 
energy becoming increasingly scarce and prime agricultural lands 
turning into deserts, internecine warfare over access to vital 
resources will become a global phenomenon.

Reid's speech, delivered at the prestigious Chatham House in London 
(Britain's equivalent of the Council on Foreign Relations), is but 
the most recent expression of a growing trend in strategic circles to 
view environmental and resource effects-rather than political 
orientation and ideology-as the most potent source of armed conflict 
in the decades to come.  With the world population rising, global 
consumption rates soaring, energy supplies rapidly disappearing and 
climate change eradicating valuable farmland, the stage is being set 
for persistent and worldwide struggles over vital resources.  
Religious and political strife will not disappear in this scenario, 
but rather will be channeled into contests over valuable sources of 
water, food and energy.

Prior to Reid's address, the most significant expression of this 
outlook was a report prepared for the U.S. Department of Defense by a 
California-based consulting firm in October 2003.  Entitled "An 
Abrupt Climate Change Scenario and Its Implications for United States 
National Security," the report warned that global climate change is 
more likely to result in sudden, cataclysmic environmental events 
rather than a gradual (and therefore manageable) rise in average 
temperatures.  Such events could include a substantial increase in 
global sea levels, intense storms and hurricanes and continent-wide 
"dust bowl" effects.  This would trigger pitched battles between the 
survivors of these effects for access to food, water, habitable land 
and energy supplies.

"Violence and disruption stemming from the stresses created by abrupt 
changes in the climate pose a different type of threat to national 
security than we are accustomed to today," the 2003 report noted.  
"Military confrontation may be triggered by a desperate need for 
natural resources such as energy, food and water rather than by 
conflicts over ideology, religion or national honor."

Until now, this mode of analysis has failed to command the attention 
of top American and British policymakers. For the most part, they 
insist that ideological and religious differences-notably, the clash 
between values of tolerance and democracy on one hand and extremist 
forms of Islam on the other-remain the main drivers of international 
conflict.  But Reid's speech at Chatham House suggests that a major 
shift in strategic thinking may be under way. Environmental perils 
may soon dominate the world security agenda.

This shift is due in part to the growing weight of evidence pointing 
to a significant human role in altering the planet's basic climate 
systems.  Recent studies showing the rapid shrinkage of the polar ice 
caps, the accelerated melting of North American glaciers, the 
increased frequency of severe hurricanes and a number of other such 
effects all suggest that dramatic and potentially harmful changes to 
the global climate have begun to occur. More importantly, they 
conclude that human behavior-most importantly, the burning of fossil 
fuels in factories, power plants, and motor vehicles-is the most 
likely cause of these changes.   This assessment may not have yet 
penetrated the White House and other bastions of head-in-the-sand 
thinking, but it is clearly gaining ground among scientists and 
thoughtful analysts around the world.

For the most part, public discussion of global climate cha

[Biofuel] Plan for new nuclear programme approaches meltdown after report

2006-03-09 Thread Keith Addison

See also:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4778344.stm
BBC NEWS
'No quick fix' from nuclear power
Monday, 6 March 2006, 22:44 GMT

-

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article349711.ece

Plan for new nuclear programme approaches meltdown after report

By Michael Harrison, and Michael McCarthy

Published: 07 March 2006

Tony Blair's backing for nuclear power suffered a blow yesterday when 
the Government's own advisory body on sustainable development came 
down firmly against the building of a new generation of reactors.

Despite the Prime Minister's well-known support for the nuclear 
industry, the Sustainable Development Commission (SDC) concluded that 
a new nuclear programme was not the answer to the twin challenges of 
climate change and security of supply. In a hard-hitting report, the 
15-strong Commission identified five "major disadvantages" to nuclear 
power:

* The lack of a long-term strategy for dealing with highly toxic nuclear waste

* Uncertainty over the cost of new nuclear stations and the risk that 
taxpayers would be left to pick up the tab;

* The danger that going down the nuclear route would lock the UK into 
a centralised system for distributing energy for the next 50 years;

* The risk a new nuclear programme would undermine efforts to improve 
energy efficiency;

* The threat of terrorist attacks and radiation exposure if other 
countries with lower safety standards also opt for nuclear.

Nuclear power generates 20 per cent of the UK's electricity but, by 
2020, that will have shrunk to 7 per cent and, by 2035, the last of 
the current generation of stations will have closed, potentially 
leaving the UK highly dependent on imported gas.

But instead of sanctioning a new nuclear programme, the SDC urged Mr 
Blair to back a further expansion of renewable power, fresh measures 
to promote energy efficiency and the development of new technologies 
such as "carbon capture" to tackle the environmental threat posed by 
fossil-fuelled stations.

The commission's report comes just three months before the Government 
publishes the results of its latest energy review, which is widely 
expected to pave the wave for a new generation of nuclear stations.

Sir Jonathon Porritt, the chairman of the commission, said:"Instead 
of hurtling along to a pre-judged conclusion (which many fear the 
Government is intent on doing) we must look to the evidence. There's 
little point in denying that nuclear power has its benefits but, in 
our view, these are outweighed by serious disadvantages. The 
Government is going to have to stop looking for an easy fix to our 
climate change and energy crises - there simply isn't one."

The commission said that even if the UK's existing nuclear capacity 
was doubled, it would only lead to an 8 per cent reduction in carbon 
emissions from 1990 levels. By contrast, renewable energy sources 
such as wind, wave, solar and biomass, which are zero-carbon sources 
of energy, could supply 68-87 per cent of the country's electricity 
needs if fully exploited.

Sir Jonathon added that opting for the "big-bang fix" of a new 
nuclear programme would jeopardise public-sector support for 
renewable power. It would also undermine efforts to improve energy 
efficiency, which the report estimates could reduce UK energy demand 
by as much as 30 to 40 per cent and cut carbon emissions by 20 
million tons a year - equivalent to the output of 27 power stations.

Sir Jonathon said, that among the commission's 15 members, eight had 
come down against nuclear power, five had concluded it was not yet 
time for a new programme and two had said there was "maybe" a case 
for more reactors. He also took a sideswipe at other well-known 
environmentalists such as James Lovelock who backs nuclear power. "No 
one person should be accorded that over-arching credibility in the 
face of the evidence before us," he said.

The environmental pressure groups Friends of the Earth welcomed the 
commission's findings. Its director, Tony Juniper, said: "Tony Blair 
and his Government must now seize the historic opportunity presented 
by the energy review to set the UK on course to becoming a world 
leader in developing a low-carbon, nuclear free economy."

The Energy minister, Malcolm Wicks, who is leading the review, gave a 
guarded reaction, saying: "As the commission itself finds, this is 
not a black and white issue. It does, however, agree that it is right 
we are assessing the potential contribution of new nuclear."

Philip Dewhurst, chairman of the Nuclear Industry Association, voiced 
his "disappointment" at the report's findings but said he was pleased 
that the commission had confirmed nuclear as a low carbon source of 
energy, recognised its improved safety record and only voted by 8-7 
to rule out new reactors.

Meanwhile, London's Mayor Ken Livingstone unveiled plans to 
revolutionise the capital's energy supply system to fight climate 
change. London is to spend many millions of p

[Biofuel] Oceans may soon be more corrosive than when the dinosaurs died

2006-03-09 Thread Keith Addison

http://www.carnegieinstitution.org/news_releases/news_0602_20.html
Carbon dioxide from the burning of coal, oil, and gas may ultimately 
make the oceans corrosive to coral reefs and many other marine 
organisms

Monday February 20, 2006

Oceans may soon be more corrosive than when the dinosaurs died

Increased carbon dioxide emissions are rapidly making the world's 
oceans more acidic and, if unabated, could cause a mass extinction of 
marine life similar to one that occurred 65 million years ago when 
the dinosaurs disappeared. Ken Caldeira of the Carnegie Institution's 
Department of Global Ecology will present this research at the 
AGU/ASLO Ocean Sciences meeting in Honolulu, HI on Monday, Feb 20.

Caldeira's computer models have predicted that the oceans will become 
far more acidic within the next century. Now, he has compared this 
data with ocean chemistry evidence from the fossil record, and has 
found some startling similarities. The new finding offers a glimpse 
of what the future might hold for ocean life if society does not 
drastically curb carbon dioxide emissions.

"The geologic record tells us the chemical effects of ocean 
acidification would last tens of thousands of years," Caldeira said. 
"But biological recovery could take millions of years. Ocean 
acidification has the potential to cause extinction of many marine 
species."

When carbon dioxide from the burning of coal, oil, and gas dissolves 
in the ocean, some of it becomes carbonic acid. Over time, 
accumulation of this carbonic acid makes ocean water more acidic. 
When carbonic acid input is modest, sediments from the ocean floor 
can buffer the increases in acidity. But at the current rate of 
input-nearly 50 times the natural background from volcanoes and other 
sources-this buffering mechanism is overwhelmed. Previous estimates 
suggest that in less than 100 years, the pH of the oceans could drop 
by as much as half a unit from its natural value of 8.2 to about 7.7. 
(On the pH scale, lower numbers are more acidic and higher numbers 
are more basic.)

This drop in ocean pH would be especially damaging to marine animals 
such as corals that use calcium carbonate to make their shells. Under 
normal conditions the ocean is supersaturated with this mineral, 
making it easy for such creatures to grow. However, a more acidic 
ocean would more easily dissolve calcium carbonate, putting these 
species at particular risk.

The last time the oceans endured such a drastic change in chemistry 
was 65 million years ago, at about the same time the dinosaurs went 
extinct. Though researchers do not yet know exactly what caused this 
ancient acidification, it was directly related to the cataclysm that 
wiped out the giant beasts. The pattern of extinction in the ocean is 
consistent with ocean acidification-the fossil record reveals a 
precipitous drop in the number of species with calcium carbonate 
shells that live in the upper ocean-especially corals and plankton. 
During the same period, species with shells made from resistant 
silicate minerals were more likely to survive.

The world's oceans came close to an acidic catastrophe one other time 
about 55 million years ago, when the temperature of the Earth spiked 
and large amounts of methane and/or carbon dioxide flooded the 
atmosphere. There is no evidence, however, that this caused a mass 
extinction event.

"Ultimately, if we are not careful, our energy system could make the 
oceans corrosive to coral reefs and many other marine organisms," 
Caldeira cautions. "These results should help motivate the search for 
new energy sources, such as wind and solar, that can fuel economic 
growth without releasing dangerous carbon dioxide into the 
environment."

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Re: [Biofuel] Interesting Read

2006-03-09 Thread Chip Mefford

Keith Addison wrote:
> Hello Chip
> 
> 
>>Keith Addison wrote:
>>
>>>Hello Chip
snip

>>>Actually it's the industrialised countries' addiction to wasting
>>>energy that's doing that.
>>
>>Wholly agree, no arguments here.
>>
>>
>>>"Merely replacing fossil fuels is not the answer. A rational and
>>>sustainable energy future requires great reductions in energy use
>>>(currently mostly waste), great improvements in energy use
>>>efficiency, and, most important, decentralisation of supply to the
>>>small-scale or farm-scale local-economy level, along with the use of
>>>all ready-to-use renewable energy technologies in combination as the
>>>local circumstances require."
>>>
>>>To say the world's 800 million cars will compete for food resources
>>>with the 1.2 billion people living on less than $1 a day shows a lack
>>>of understanding of how the market works. See eg.:
>>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_food.html
>>>Biofuels - Food or Fuel?
>>
>>No core argument, however, I think that fuel/food competition is
>>already happening.
> 
> 
> But I think it's no different than the usual food competition, with 
> people being "marginalised" from their own resources to make way for 
> industrialised production of food and ag commodities for trade in the 
> global market.

Well stated. agreed.


> So for instance, with the so-called Green Revolution, 
> countries that used to be self-sufficient in rice successfully became 
> rice exporters but with large and growing numbers of poor and hungry 
> people at home, along with severe environmental problems (which 
> primarily impact on the poor). Wealth extraction, poverty creation, 
> same old story. What difference does it make if these extracted 
> commodities include biofuels feedstock? It just adds fuel miles to 
> food miles, but it's the same issue.
> 
> Like all industrialised agriculture production it's heavily dependent 
> on fossil-fuel inputs - dinosaur bone oil, LOL! What sort of sense 
> does it make to produce allegedly sustainable and renewable biofuels 
> crops if it depends on exactly the resource it's supposed to be 
> replacing? There's nothing sustainable about industrialised 
> agriculture, it has no future.
> 
> 
>>Currently, dinosaur bone oil costs are mostly
>>hidden from view, and bio-oil is under a microscope for cost
>>models.
>>
>>all things being equal, it's my most ignorant guess that once
>>you strip away all the huge subsidies that dinosaur bone oil
>>receives, add in the health-care costs, you start seeing gas at the pump
>>in the 10 to 12 dollar a gallon range,
> 
> 
> That seems to be quite a good guess, but it's probably more than 
> that, see below.
> 
> 
>>and bio-oil is probably
>>something like one third to half that. With this in mind, and some of
>>the forest-to-farm land conversion that is happening around the world
>>to address local fuel needs,
> 
> 
> Local fuel needs?
> 
> 
>>and the picture is a bit more cloudy.
> 
> 
> Adding biofuel to the picture doesn't change it much.
> 
> On the other hand, there's a massive worldwide swing towards 
> sustainable farming. Eg:

Thank goodness!

I'm snipping the rest, because I have no debate points,
and I completely concurr, and I really appreciate
you taking the time to write it all up.

Anyone who's following this thread looking for controversy,
should go back and read your post in detail :)

Thanks again for everything,
-keep up the good work!

---chipper

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