[Biofuel] Biofuels: A Disaster in the Making
Biofuels: A Disaster in the Making by Global Forest Coalition et al. http://www.energybulletin.net/21845.html Simone Lovera writes: Dear all, Please find below an alert to the Conference of the Parties of the Framework Convention on Climate Change on the risks of biofuels. The letter calls upon governments to suspend all subsidies and other forms of inequitabe support for the import and export of biofuels, in the light of the negative environmental and social impacts caused by the large-scale export-oriented production of biofuels. While recognizing that some forms of locally and nationally oriented biofuel production could be sustainable, the letter also calls for strict regulations and effective enforcement measures, to ensure biofuel production at the national level does not impact negatively upon Indigenous Peoples and local communities, and their livelihoods. We just started gathering signatures to this letter. Please let us know before Saturday 4 November (at simonelovera@ yahoo.com) if your organization is willing to support it. Other feedback is welcome too. Best wishes, Simone Simone Lovera Campaigns coordinator Global Forest Coalition Bruselas 2273 Asuncin, Paraguay tel/fax: 595-21-663654 www.wrm.org.uy/GFC/ Email: simonelovera@ yahoo.com The undersigned NGOs, Indigenous Peoples Organizations, farmerÄôs movements and individuals call upon the Parties to the Framework Convention on Climate Change to immediately suspend all subsidies and other forms of inequitable support for the import and export of biofuels. We recognize that the local production and consumption of biomass plays an important role in sustainable livelihood strategies of, in particular, rural women in developing countries. Certain small-scale and strictly regulated sustainable forms of biofuel production can be beneficial at the national level. However, the modalities of biomass consumption and production must be carefully analyzed in conjunction with communities, to introduce adaptive measures that will maintain and enhance the patterns of sustainability, while avoiding negative impacts on health and the adverse effects inherent to increases in demand or changes in socioeconomic settings. Solar energy often offers a sustainable alternative to traditional biomass. Meanwhile, international trade in biofuels is already causing a negative impact on food sovereignty, rural livelihoods, forests and other ecosystems, and these negative impacts are expected to accumulate rapidly. Large-scale, export-oriented production of biofuel requires large-scale monocultures of trees, sugarcane, corn, oilpalm, soy and other crops. These monocultures already form the number one cause of rural depopulation and deforestation worldwide. The rapidly increasing demand for these crops as a source of biofuel will lead to: increased land competition leading to further land concentration, the marginalization of small-scale agriculture and the widespread conversion of forests and other ecosystems; arable land that is currently used to grow food being used to grow fuel, leading to staggering food prices and causing hunger, malnutrition and impoverishment amongst the poorest sectors of society; rural unemployment and depopulation; the destruction of the traditions, cultures, languages and spiritual values of Indigenous Peoples and rural communities; the extensive use of agro-chemicals, which deteriorate human health and ecosystems the destruction of watersheds and the pollution of rivers, lakes and streams; droughts and other local and regional climatic extremes; and the extensive use of genetically modified organisms leading to unprecedented risks. These effects will have particularly a negative impact on women and Indigenous Peoples, who are economically marginalized and more dependent on natural resources like water and forests. Biofuels are a disaster in the making. Existing legally binding standards, regulations and enforcement mechanisms in the (potential) production countries are absolutely insufficient to prevent the above-mentioned impacts. International demand for biofuels is already surpassing supply in key countries like Malaysia and Brazil, giving an important push to the expansion of destructive crops like oil palm and sugar cane. Initiatives to produce these monocultures ÄúresponsiblyÄù are rejected by many NGOs and social movements in the production countries themselves, who have emphasized that the above-mentioned negative social and environmental impacts are inherent to the large-scale production of monocultures. There is nothing green or sustainable to imported or exported biofuel. Instead of destroying the lands and livelihoods of local communities and Indigenous Peoples in the South through yet another form of colonialism, we call upon Northern countries to recognize their responsibility for destroying the planetÄôs climate system, to reduce their energy
[Biofuel] KFC jumps out of trans fats into transgenics
Two articles: http://deltafarmpress.com/news/061101-soy-oil/ 'Colonel' changing recipe to low-linolenic soy oil Nov 1, 2006 10:11 AM By Forrest Laws Farm Press Editorial Staff Yum Brands, Inc., the company that owns 5,500 KFC restaurants across the country, has announced it is making a change in its cooking oil that should give new meaning to the words Finger-Licking Good. Yum said it is switching from partially hydrogenated vegetable oil to low-linolenic soybean oil. The company specifically cited Monsanto's Vistive brand of soybeans as the source of its new low-linolenic oil, but other company products will be available. We applaud Yum Brands, Inc., on its movement toward eliminating trans fats from Kentucky Fried Chicken products by transitioning to a low-linolenic soybean oil, said John Becherer, CEO of Qualisoy, a soybean industry initiative aimed at helping market healthier, more functional soybean products to the food industry. Becherer said the announcement could add an estimated $100 million per year to the value of soybeans grown in the United States. Following the 2006 harvest, he said, 400 million pounds of low-linolenic oil could be available. More than 1 billion pounds of low-linolenic oil could be in the market following the 2007 harvest if the industry's plans to ramp up production of the new class of soybeans come to fruition. Qualisoy officials said soybean farmers have invested $38.5 million in checkoff money to help expand soybean usage through the following areas: animal utilization, industrial utilization, human utilization, supply, industry relations and market access. Besides the Vistive brand, low-linolenic soybeans that currently meet Qualisoy quality standards include Pioneer brand low-linolenic soybeans and Asoyia ultra low-linolenic soybeans. Several cooking oils resulting from the low-linolenic soybeans are now on the market. Among those are Advantage LL soy oil processed by Cargill; Vistive low-linolenic soy oil processed by Ag Processing, Cenex Harvest States and Zeeland Farms; Treus brand soy oil, developed in partnership by Bunge and DuPont; and Asoyia ultra low-linolenic soybean oil. Monsanto officials said they were pleased with the move to low-linolenic soybean oils, the second by a major food company in the last 12 months. KFC's announcement and others like it present a unique opportunity for North American farmers, said Jerry Steiner, executive vice president of Monsanto. Demand for this type of oil continues to out-strip supply. Farmers can demonstrate to the food industry that they are able to provide the best alternative oil in the fight to reduce trans fats while, at the same time, earning a premium growing low-linolenic soybeans. (Vistive soybeans are currently available in Iowa, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota and Nebraska.) Last December, Kellogg Co. announced it would reformulate using Qualisoy-approved low-linolenic soybean oil to eliminate trans fats from a number of its food products. Kellogg's will use a variety processed from Monsanto's Vistive and Bunge/Pioneer's Treus low-linolenic soybean oils. Monsanto has announced it is expanding acreage of Vistive soybeans into Ohio and Maryland. The soybeans carry the Roundup Ready trait and are available in a number of Monsanto and other seed company brands. The company says it currently has no plans to market low-linolenic soybeans in the South, but researchers are working on a high stearate soybean that will be targeted for southern production. The latter will have higher levels of stearic acid, which means that products such as margarines and shortening won't have to be hydrogenated. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Out of the fat, not the fire KFC's decision to cut the trans fats from its US restaurants isn't quite the boon for good health as it at first seems. Felicity Lawrence The Guardian, Comment is Free, 1 November 2006 http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/felicity_lawrence/2006/11/out_of_t he_fat_not_the_fire.html KFC announced on Monday that it was changing its frying oil to eliminate trans fats from its main meals in the USA. Monday as it happens was also the day the New York City Board of Health began a public hearing on whether restaurants in New York should be banned from selling foods with trans fats on the grounds that they increase the risk of heart disease and have no nutritional value. But the pressure has been building up for some time. Labelling regulations in the US have changed, forcing manufacturers to own up to how much trans fat - produced by partial hydrogenation of industrial oils - is in their products. A retired doctor had also filed a class action four months ago against the company for selling food with trans fats without telling its customers. The lawsuit was supported by the campaign group, Center for Science in the Public Interest (CPSI), which greeted KFC's news as an important milestone and
[Biofuel] Running on Hype - The Real Scoop on Biofuels
Running on Hype The Real Scoop on Biofuels By BRIAN TOKAR CounterPunch, November 1 2006 http://www.counterpunch.org/tokar11012006.html You can hardly open up a major newspaper or national magazine these days without encountering the latest hype about biofuels, and how they're going to save oil, reduce pollution and prevent climate change. Bill Gates, Sun Microsystems' Vinod Khosla, and other major venture capitalists are investing millions in new biofuel production, whether in the form of ethanol, mainly derived from corn in the US today, or biodiesel, mainly from soybeans and canola seed. It's literally a modern day gold rush, as described by the New York Times, paraphrasing the chief executive of Cargill, one of the main benefactors of increased subsidies to agribusiness and tax credits to refiners for the purpose of encouraging biofuel production. The Times reported earlier this year that some 40 new ethanol plants are currently under construction in the US, aiming toward a 30 percent increase in domestic production. Archer Daniels Midland, the company that first sold the idea of corn-derived ethanol as an auto fuel to Congress in the late 1970s, has doubled its stock price and profits over the last two years. ADM currently controls a quarter of US ethanol fuel production, and recently hired a former Chevron executive as its CEO. Several well-respected analysts have raised serious concerns about this rapid diversion of food crops toward the production of fuel for automobiles. WorldWatch Institute founder Lester Brown, long concerned about the sustainability of world food supplies, says that fuel producers are already competing with food processors in the world's grain markets. Cars, not people, will claim most of the increase in grain production this year, reports Brown, a serious concern in a world where the grain required to make enough ethanol to fill an SUV tank is enough to feed a person for a whole year. Others have dismissed the ethanol gold rush as nothing more than the subsidized burning of food to run automobiles. The biofuel rush is having a significant impact worldwide as well. Brazil, often touted as the the most impressive biofuel success story, is using half its annual sugarcane crop to provide 40 percent of its auto fuel, while increasing deforestation to grow more sugarcane and soybeans. Malaysian and Indonesian rainforests are being bulldozed for oil palm plantations-threatening endangered orangutans, rhinos, tigers and countless other species-in order to serve at the booming European market for biodiesel. Are these reasonable tradeoffs for a troubled planet, or merely another corporate push for profits? Two new studies, both released this past summer, aim to document the full consequences of the new biofuel economy and realistically assess its impact on fuel use, greenhouse gases and agricultural lands. One study, originating from the University of Minnesota, is moderately hopeful in the first two areas, but offers a strong caution about land use. The other, from Cornell University and UC Berkeley, concludes that every domestic biofuel source shy; the ones currently in use as well as those under development shy; produces less energy than is consumed in growing and processing the crops. The Minnesota researchers attempted a full lifecycle analysis of the production of ethanol from corn and biodiesel from soy. They documented the energy costs of fuel production, pesticide use, transportation, and other key factors, and also accounted for the energy equivalent of soy and corn byproducts that remain for other uses after the fuel is extracted. Their paper, published in the July 25th edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, concluded that ethanol production offers a modest net energy gain of 25%, resulting in 12% less greenhouse gases than an equivalent amount of gasoline. The numbers for biodiesel are more promising, with a 93% net energy gain and a 41% reduction in greenhouse gases. The researchers cautioned, however, that these figures do not account for the significant environmental damage from increased acreages of these crops, including the impacts of pesticides, nitrate runoff into water supplies, nor the increased demand on water, as energy crops like corn and soy begin to displace more drought tolerant crops such as wheat in several Midwestern states. The most serious impact, though, is on land use. The Minnesota paper reports that in 2005, 14% of the US corn harvest was used to produce some 6 million gallons of ethanol, equivalent to 1.7% of current gasoline usage. About 1 1/2 percent of the soy harvest produced 120 million gallons of biodiesel, equivalent to less than one tenth of one percent of gas usage. This means that if all of the country's corn harvest was used to make ethanol, it would displace 12% of our gas; all of our soybeans would displace about 6% of the gas. But if the
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
Mike, I am glad you liked the article. We need to be agents of change, to transform the planet into one where peace and caring prevail. As individuals we need to become peaceful within ourselves, then we can radiate peace everywhere. Prayer and continous positive affirmations can help rewire ourselves to a peaceful state. WRT a standard prayer for the list, how about: In peace I journey to forever. Visioning peace becoming peace, individually, is a milestone on the way. We do each create reality for ourselves. Imagining this world as one where peace exists in each individual and between countries should make it happen, to become real for each of us; the idea here is that when a critical number of people are at peace internally then the rest will be entrained and switch over easily. So we must become peace so that we can project it. We are electrical creatures. People like Dubya and Cheney are not at peace within themselves, imo. That is why it is so easy for them to advocate war and attack the environment. They see scarcity where there is abundance. But they could not do the tragic things they do without lots of like-minded people. So we imaginers have to get busy. John Lennon's Imagine seems to be appropriate here. Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today... Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one Namasté Peace to all, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Hi D...I really appreciate reading this...but you know what's coming: Show me the data! Aside from that, whatever might happen to society as a whole as a result of many individuals imagining a better world, what happens to the individual in the process of doing so is what matters most. Along these lines, I was wondering: what if the List adopted a prayer, something simple, just a few words, that each of us might remember and recite to ourselves at the same time each day. Not that it would be the same time for everyone, but that each one would imagine and recite it at the same time day each day. The List is global, so it is conceivable that at any given moment or during any given hour, the prayer would be spoken, the imaginal cells appearing. I have no idea what we might all say, but it seems the same words, certainly the same idea, being imagined and spoken 24 hours a day, can't do anything but be helpful, if not ultimately for all the peoples of the planet and of course the planet, certainly for the individuals participating in such a thing, each of them knowing they were being joined by so many others in doing so. What do you think? What do members of the List think? Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra http://www.thecupoftea.co.uk/newsletter/deepak.html Imagining a new state for humanity: the metaphor of imaginal cells Transformation sometimes can be drastic. There is no better example in nature to reflect this, than metamorphosis. This is exemplified best in the transformation of a caterpillar into a butterfly - an incredible transformation in functionality, appearance, organization of components, and purpose - that transforms a gross-looking voracious, clumsy crawling worm, into a subtle, gracious, flying creature of beauty. Biologists tell us that in the tissue of a caterpillar there are embedded cells that they call imaginal cells. They resonate at a different frequency. They are so totally different from the other caterpillar cells, that the immune system of the worm thinks they are enemies and tries to destroy them. But the new imaginal cells continue to appear, more and more of them! Eventually the caterpillar's immune system cannot destroy them fast enough, and they become stronger, they connect, and connect, until they form a critical mass that realizes that their mission is to bring about the amazing birth of a butterfly out of the voracious caterpillar! In 1969 Margaret Mead said: Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. I firmly believe along with many others, that there is an evolutionary effervescence within the tissues of the established society of
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
Ah yes, Deepak Chopra, promoter of Ayuvedic medicine, where it is thought that the consumption of your urine is medically beneficial. Nothing like a warm cup of piss to start the day...:0 http://www.indiangyan.com/books/therapybooks/Uropathy/my_personal_experiments.shtml Once during my lecture, one gentleman rose from the audience and asked me Mr. Thakkar, you are talking so highly about urine treatment for all tooth problems, but my experience is otherwise with it. I am washing my mouth with urine since two years, still I have lost my two teeth and the third one is loose and is on the verge of going. I asked him, How long you you rinse your mouth with urine? His reply was for a minute or two. The defect in the treatment was detected instantly. One has to fill his or her mouth with fresh urine for ten minutes so that it can be absorbed by the gums and would reach the roots of the teeth. He informed me after few days that his teeth had become all right with my technique within a week. During last ten years thousands of people have vouched the efficacy of U.T. on teeth and gum problems of various types. D. Mindock wrote: Mike, I am glad you liked the article. We need to be agents of change, to transform the planet into one where peace and caring prevail. As individuals we need to become peaceful within ourselves, then we can radiate peace everywhere. Prayer and continous positive affirmations can help rewire ourselves to a peaceful state. WRT a standard prayer for the list, how about: In peace I journey to forever. Visioning peace becoming peace, individually, is a milestone on the way. We do each create reality for ourselves. Imagining this world as one where peace exists in each individual and between countries should make it happen, to become real for each of us; the idea here is that when a critical number of people are at peace internally then the rest will be entrained and switch over easily. So we must become peace so that we can project it. We are electrical creatures. People like Dubya and Cheney are not at peace within themselves, imo. That is why it is so easy for them to advocate war and attack the environment. They see scarcity where there is abundance. But they could not do the tragic things they do without lots of like-minded people. So we imaginers have to get busy. John Lennon's Imagine seems to be appropriate here. Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today... Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one Namasté Peace to all, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Hi D...I really appreciate reading this...but you know what's coming: Show me the data! Aside from that, whatever might happen to society as a whole as a result of many individuals imagining a better world, what happens to the individual in the process of doing so is what matters most. Along these lines, I was wondering: what if the List adopted a prayer, something simple, just a few words, that each of us might remember and recite to ourselves at the same time each day. Not that it would be the same time for everyone, but that each one would imagine and recite it at the same time day each day. The List is global, so it is conceivable that at any given moment or during any given hour, the prayer would be spoken, the imaginal cells appearing. I have no idea what we might all say, but it seems the same words, certainly the same idea, being imagined and spoken 24 hours a day, can't do anything but be helpful, if not ultimately for all the peoples of the planet and of course the planet, certainly for the individuals participating in such a thing, each of them knowing they were being joined by so many others in doing so. What do you think? What do members of the List think? Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra http://www.thecupoftea.co.uk/newsletter/deepak.html Imagining a new state for humanity: the metaphor of imaginal cells Transformation sometimes can be drastic. There is no better example in nature to reflect this, than
[Biofuel] Cambodian Rail Speeder
Here is one of the best uses for small rail that I have ever stumbled across. Lightweight effecient and (somewhat) portable. Mass transit for the masses! http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/Slap a small diesel on the speeder and you have a workable transportation solution that solves many problems.fred ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Say no to mercury in your teeth
Alright so my point is that mercury vapour is toxic. I have had dentists tell me the mercury is locked up safely by the silver in the amalgam and that makes it safe because it can't get in your body. This one guy went on to say that mercury is a lot less toxic than the paranoia suggests. He cited examples of kids chewing thermometers and swallowing liquid mercury which is passed with no ill effect. On the surface this may seem true enough, and sure I have held a pool of quicksilver in my hand as a lad and had fun playing with it. Didn't drop dead. It's the vapour which gets you right? Just don't heat it right? But mercury does have some vapour pressure at room temperature just as any liquid does. The spectrometer will detect it in your breath so yes mercury vapour does come out of the amalgam fillings in my teeth. The MSDS doesn't give much info on what SUBTLE effects result from very low level exposure over a lifetime. There is a funny thing I notice around here with the science faculty. Whenever the subject of exposure to traces comes up there is this reaction which is typically a tilt of the head and a shrug of the shoulders combined with the sound of air escaping from the nostrils. I don't know if this is some kind of stoicism or what but it is as if the person is saying 'yeah it's true a LOT of chemists die of cancer in their middle age, but nothing can be done about this'. Or is it a suggestion that they believe something along the lines of 'yeah but not me' I don't get it, but it is quite common amongst people who make their living in that field. On the other hand I have been told that the process of removal results in a dose over the short term which is higher than the dose recieved if they are left alone over the long term. I don't know which is worse or what to believe at this point and that is where it sits unfortunately. I'm leaving them alone, unless they get loose and need to be removed for that reason. Joe bob allen wrote: Cool, but not surprising. I few years ago I was looking at the mercury content of bream in the Ozarks. (found it to be well under a ppm generally via cold vapor fluorescence) I did the analysis in a state lab in Little Rock. technique was so sensitive that the mercury analysis was shut down for a week because a guy broke a thermometer in a lab in the same building as the lab I worked in but hundreds of feet away, which swamped the detector. Joe Street wrote: Hey Bob; I know this guy here at the U and he makes these micro mass specs. Turns out the increase in sensitivity is non linear with the decrease in physical size of the analyzer. So as it turns out if a sample of exhaled breath is analyzed he can make a pretty good guess how many fillings you have in your head based on mercury loading. Here is his site: http://orchard.uwaterloo.ca/ Joe bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: When one considers what would happen to dentistry should they admit mercury is actually toxic and shouldnt be in your mouth the data don't support your claim, plain and simple. we realize it will be a cold day in hell when they do. Either the EPA is right or the dentists are right you cant have it both ways. yes you can if you know a little chemistry. The the absorption, distibution, metabolism and excretion (toxicology) of the different forms of mercury vary considerably Frankly I think the toxicity of mercury has been proven and the tobacco industry style argumentation and bogus literature only fools the gullible or those with such a pc mindset they cant see the emperor is naked. The tobacco settlement would be a pittance compared to the dental industry liability. would be? why not will be? If there is money to be made, why isn't someone making it? Maybe because the data aren't there to support the claim? People will kill for far less so for them to tell a lie is to be expected. I would be gob smacked if they didnt. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: or see http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/consumer/amalgams.html Since the 1990s, FDA and other government agencies (CDC, NIH) have reviewed the scientific literature looking for links between dental amalgams and health problems. To date, the agencies have found no scientific studies that demonstrate dental amalgams harm children or adults. But we continue to review the literature and ask experts their opinions on the safety of dental amalgam. http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/nr-cp/1996/1996_63_e.html The statement states that current evidence does not indicate that dental amalgam is causing illness in the general population. It also says that a ban is not justified, and neither is the removal of existing sound amalgam
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful there Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying that there is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3 times) ( is that like tapping the heels of your shoes three times?.lol) well then how can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or otherwise? Joe bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. actually it can be. see above More than can be said of many pharma nostrums. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or "science". I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method. agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: "bob allen" To: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we all), then homeopathy could be the road. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: "D. Mindock" Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Subject: Re: [Biofuel]Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:48:58 -0500 Hi Mike, Yep, Linus Pauling was a true truth seeker, a beautiful
Re: [Biofuel] The Dollar's Full-System Meltdown
I think you would be better to buy solar panels and inverters than gold and silver but that's just my opinion. Joe D. Mindock wrote: Hi Kirk, I started buying gold and silver. Also trying to get rid of debt. I think I better start selling my IRA stock funds while they are up and pay off the debt. I think we're in for a rough ride. We have been Bush whacked. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 12:30 PM Subject: The Dollar's Full-System Meltdown A report in The Sydney Morning Herald stated, Australias Treasurer Peter Costello has called on East Asias central bankers to telegraph their intentions to diversify out of American investments and ensure an orderly adjustment.Central banks in China, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and Hong Kong have channeled immense foreign reserves into American government bonds, helping to prop up the US dollar and hold down interest rates, said Costello, but the strategy has changed. Indeed, the strategy has changed. The world has come to its senses and is moving away from the green slip of paper that is currently mired in $8.3 trillion of debt. http://informationclearinghouse.info/article15440.htm Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.22/512 - Release Date: 11/1/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
Bob, While your at it be sure to spit it out on your hands and feet - Its also supposed to cure cracked chapped skin, Please excuse me I must go brush and gargle with peroxide and baking soda I'm just to big a coward to use urine for anything but Compost activator. Sorry to sound skeptical Bob but I have to drw the line somewhere. ;^) Jim From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 08:32:06 -0600 Ah yes, Deepak Chopra, promoter of Ayuvedic medicine, where it is thought that the consumption of your urine is medically beneficial. Nothing like a warm cup of piss to start the day...:0 http://www.indiangyan.com/books/therapybooks/Uropathy/my_personal_experiments.shtml Once during my lecture, one gentleman rose from the audience and asked me Mr. Thakkar, you are talking so highly about urine treatment for all tooth problems, but my experience is otherwise with it. I am washing my mouth with urine since two years, still I have lost my two teeth and the third one is loose and is on the verge of going. I asked him, How long you you rinse your mouth with urine? His reply was for a minute or two. The defect in the treatment was detected instantly. One has to fill his or her mouth with fresh urine for ten minutes so that it can be absorbed by the gums and would reach the roots of the teeth. He informed me after few days that his teeth had become all right with my technique within a week. During last ten years thousands of people have vouched the efficacy of U.T. on teeth and gum problems of various types. D. Mindock wrote: Mike, I am glad you liked the article. We need to be agents of change, to transform the planet into one where peace and caring prevail. As individuals we need to become peaceful within ourselves, then we can radiate peace everywhere. Prayer and continous positive affirmations can help rewire ourselves to a peaceful state. WRT a standard prayer for the list, how about: In peace I journey to forever. Visioning peace becoming peace, individually, is a milestone on the way. We do each create reality for ourselves. Imagining this world as one where peace exists in each individual and between countries should make it happen, to become real for each of us; the idea here is that when a critical number of people are at peace internally then the rest will be entrained and switch over easily. So we must become peace so that we can project it. We are electrical creatures. People like Dubya and Cheney are not at peace within themselves, imo. That is why it is so easy for them to advocate war and attack the environment. They see scarcity where there is abundance. But they could not do the tragic things they do without lots of like-minded people. So we imaginers have to get busy. John Lennon's Imagine seems to be appropriate here. Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today... Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one Namasté Peace to all, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Hi D...I really appreciate reading this...but you know what's coming: Show me the data! Aside from that, whatever might happen to society as a whole as a result of many individuals imagining a better world, what happens to the individual in the process of doing so is what matters most. Along these lines, I was wondering: what if the List adopted a prayer, something simple, just a few words, that each of us might remember and recite to ourselves at the same time each day. Not that it would be the same time for everyone, but that each one would imagine and recite it at the same time day each day. The List is global, so it is conceivable that at any given moment or during any given hour, the prayer would be spoken, the imaginal cells appearing. I have no idea what we might all say, but it seems the same words, certainly the same idea, being imagined and spoken 24 hours a day, can't do anything but be helpful, if not ultimately for all the peoples of the planet and of course the planet, certainly for the individuals participating in such a thing, each of them knowing they
Re: [Biofuel] Say no to mercury in your teeth
So the tests to determine the time weighted average, were they carried out on a human being over say a 40 year period under controlled conditions with 0.05 mg/m^3 and no confounding issues? Just how did 'they'decide that? Joe bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: Yes and vapor levels above EPA industrial safety levels are ok Just ask Bob nope never said such thing. Hear is the osha level under which there is noe (no observable effect) ** Mercury: 0.05 mg/m3 TWA (vapor) twa is a time weighted average. now can you show me data that that level is exceeded by my fillings? show me the data, not palitudes, and please refrain from trying to put words in my mouth. I will speak for me and you can speak for you OK? or the ADA. Kirk */Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: Hey Bob; I know this guy here at the U and he makes these micro mass specs. Turns out the increase in sensitivity is non linear with the decrease in physical size of the analyzer. So as it turns out if a sample of exhaled breath is analyzed he can make a pretty good guess how many fillings you have in your head based on mercury loading. Here is his site: http://orchard.uwaterloo.ca/ Joe bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: When one considers what would happen to dentistry should they admit mercury is actually toxic and shouldnt be in your mouth the data don't support your claim, plain and simple. we realize it will be a cold day in hell when they do. Either the EPA is right or the dentists are right you cant have it both ways. yes you can if you know a little chemistry. The the absorption, distibution, metabolism and excretion (toxicology) of the different forms of mercury vary considerably Frankly I think the toxicity of mercury has been proven and the tobacco industry style argumentation and bogus literature only fools the gullible or those with such a pc mindset they cant see the emperor is naked. The tobacco settlement would be a pittance compared to the dental industry liability. would be? why not will be? If there is money to be made, why isn't someone making it? Maybe because the data aren't there to support the claim? People will kill for far less so for them to tell a lie is to be expected. I would be gob smacked if they didnt. Kirk*/bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote:or seehttp://www.fda.gov/cdrh/consumer/amalgams.htmlSince the 1990s, FDA and other government agencies (CDC, NIH) have reviewed the scientific literature looking for links between dental amalgams and health problems. To date, the agencies have found no scientific studies that demonstrate dental amalgams harm children or adults. But we continue to review the literature and ask experts their opinions on the safety of dental amalgam.http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/ahc-asc/media/nr-cp/1996/1996_63_e.htmlThe statement states that current evidence does not indicate that dental amalgam is causing illness in the general population. It also says that a ban is not justified, and neither is the removal of existing sound amalgam fillings.etc. D. Mindock wrote: When your dentist tells you not to worry about the amalgam he wants to put into your cavity or root canal, show him/her the list below. Peace, D. Mindock http://www.medical-library.net/specialties/framer.html?/specialties/_biological_and_mercury_free_dentistry.html Here in summary form are the essential assertions of mercury and root canal free dentistry accompanied by literature references in cases where there can be any argument. I am indebted to Dr. Robert Gammal and Mr. Leif Hedegard for the organization of this information. 1. Dental Amalgam contains about 50% Mercury. (undisputed) 2. Mercury has been scientifically demonstrated to be more toxic than Lead, Cadmium, or even Arsenic. (undisputed) 3. Mercury leaves dental amalgam continuously throughout the lifetime of the filing.(7) 4. Mercury vapor is the main way that mercury comes out of amalgam.(31) 5. Mercury vapor is absorbed at a rate of 80% through the lungs into the arterial blood. (31, 55) 6. Mercury is cytotoxic, i.e., it kills cells (undisputed) 7. There is NO harmless level of Mercury Vapor Exposure. (63) 8. Mercury from amalgam binds to -SH (sulfhydryl) groups. These exist in almost every enzymatic process in the body. Mercury
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
Hi D., Mike and all Mike, I am glad you liked the article. We need to be agents of change, to transform the planet into one where peace and caring prevail. As individuals we need to become peaceful within ourselves, then we can radiate peace everywhere. Have you read this? http://journeytoforever.org/rrlib/greenspan.html Toward a Psychology of Interdependency Greenspan and Shanker If not I'm sure you'll enjoy it. There's more to be said and further to explore than they've done, eg they don't examine how people who have not been brought up in the kind of nurturing society they describe (or prescribe) manage to gain the perspectives necessary for true global citizenship anyway, as many do, and as with all things sustainable, it pays to look for examples among the traditional societies, which they don't seem to have done. Kurt Vonnegut's essay Biafra: A People Betrayed comes to mind, for a start. Here it is: http://journeytoforever.org/rrlib/biafra.html Biafra: A People Betrayed by Kurt Vonnegut From Wampeters, Foma and Granfalloons, 1979 Good read, sad tale. It was after visiting Biafra that Vonnegut kept trying to devise ways of rigging things so that everybody belonged to the same family. As indeed we do. Prayer and continous positive affirmations can help rewire ourselves to a peaceful state. WRT a standard prayer for the list, how about: In peace I journey to forever. Golly. I thought of a credo but not of a prayer. Of course you are most welcome. Namaste Keith Visioning peace becoming peace, individually, is a milestone on the way. We do each create reality for ourselves. Imagining this world as one where peace exists in each individual and between countries should make it happen, to become real for each of us; the idea here is that when a critical number of people are at peace internally then the rest will be entrained and switch over easily. So we must become peace so that we can project it. We are electrical creatures. People like Dubya and Cheney are not at peace within themselves, imo. That is why it is so easy for them to advocate war and attack the environment. They see scarcity where there is abundance. But they could not do the tragic things they do without lots of like-minded people. So we imaginers have to get busy. John Lennon's Imagine seems to be appropriate here. Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today... Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one Namasté Peace to all, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Hi D...I really appreciate reading this...but you know what's coming: Show me the data! Aside from that, whatever might happen to society as a whole as a result of many individuals imagining a better world, what happens to the individual in the process of doing so is what matters most. Along these lines, I was wondering: what if the List adopted a prayer, something simple, just a few words, that each of us might remember and recite to ourselves at the same time each day. Not that it would be the same time for everyone, but that each one would imagine and recite it at the same time day each day. The List is global, so it is conceivable that at any given moment or during any given hour, the prayer would be spoken, the imaginal cells appearing. I have no idea what we might all say, but it seems the same words, certainly the same idea, being imagined and spoken 24 hours a day, can't do anything but be helpful, if not ultimately for all the peoples of the planet and of course the planet, certainly for the individuals participating in such a thing, each of them knowing they were being joined by so many others in doing so. What do you think? What do members of the List think? Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra http://www.thecupoftea.co.uk/newsletter/deepak.html Imagining a new state for humanity: the metaphor of imaginal cells Transformation sometimes can be drastic. There is no better example in nature to reflect this, than metamorphosis. This is exemplified best in the transformation of a caterpillar into a butterfly - an incredible transformation in functionality, appearance, organization of components, and
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
James...Bob is being facetious and a fathead. Not judging, just noting. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "JAMES PHELPS" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Bob, While your at it be sure to spit it out on your hands and feet - Its also supposed to cure cracked chapped skin, Please excuse me I must go brush and gargle with peroxide and baking soda I'm just to big a coward to use urine for anything but Compost activator. Sorry to sound skeptical Bob but I have to drw the line somewhere. ;^) Jim From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak ChopraDate: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 08:32:06 -0600Ah yes, Deepak Chopra, promoter of Ayuvedic medicine, where it is thought that the consumption ofyour urine is medically beneficial.Nothing like a warm cup of piss to start the day...:0http://www.indiangyan.com/books/therapybooks/Uropathy/my_personal_experiments.shtmlOnce during my lecture, one gentleman rose from the audience and asked me "Mr. Thakkar, you aretalking so highly about urine treatment for all tooth problems, but my experience is otherwise withit. I am washing my mouth with urine since two years, still I have lost my two teeth and the thirdone is loose and is on the verge of going." I asked him, "How long you you rinse your mouth withurine?" His reply was "for a minute or two". The defect in the treatment was detected instantly. Onehas to fill his or her mouth with fresh urine for ten minutes so that it can be absorbed by the gumsand would reach the roots of the teeth. He informed me after few days that his teeth had become allright with my technique within a week. During last ten years thousands of people have vouched theefficacy of U.T. on teeth and gum problems of various types.D. Mindock wrote: Mike, I am glad you liked the article. We need to be agents of change, to transform the planet into one where peace and caring prevail. As individuals we need to become peaceful within ourselves, then we can radiate peace everywhere. Prayer and continous positive affirmations can help rewire ourselves to a peaceful state. WRT a standard prayer for the list, how about: In peace I journey to forever. Visioning peace becoming peace, individually, is a milestone on the way. We do each create reality for ourselves. Imagining this world as one where peace exists in each individual and between countries should make it happen, to become real for each of us; the idea here is that when a critical number of people are at peace internally then the rest will be entrained and switch over easily. So we must become peace so that we can project it. We are electrical creatures. People like Dubya and Cheney are not at peace within themselves, imo. That is why it is so easy for them to advocate war and attack the environment. They see scarcity where there is abundance. But they could not do the tragic things they do without lots of like-minded people. So we imaginers have to get busy. John Lennon's Imagine seems to be appropriate here. Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today... Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one Namasté Peace to all, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Hi D...I really appreciate reading this...but you know what's coming: "Show me the data!" Aside from that, whatever might happen to society as a whole as a result of many individuals imagining a better world, what happens to the individual in the process of doing so is what matters most. Along these lines, I was wondering: what if the List adopted a prayer, something simple, just a few words, that each of us might remember and recite to ourselves at the same time each day. Not that it would be the same time for everyone, but that each one would imagine and recite it at the same time day each day. The List is global, so it is conceivable that at any given moment or during any given hour, the prayer would be spoken, the "imaginal cells" appearing. I have no idea what we might all
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
Ah yes, Deepak Chopra, promoter of Ayuvedic medicine, where it is thought that the consumption of your urine is medically beneficial. Nothing like a warm cup of piss to start the day...:0 Uh-huh, Bob, where's your data that it's not beneficial? Everybody knows that, do they, no need for data? Aryuvedic, homeopathic, herbal, alternative-whatever, it seems it's all just a crock of worse-than-useless shit in your view unless it's modern industrialised allopathic Western medicine, which has the *data* to back it up, eh? With this result, among many others: Re iatrogenic illness, there's at least a 1 in 500 chance of getting killed by medical treatment in the US, 1.8 million people per year pick up infections in US hospitals, 20,000 of them die, it contributes to an additional 70,000 deaths, at a cost of $4.5 billion, according to the CDC; other reports have found much higher rates. [225,000 deaths per year in the US from iatrogenic causes - JAMA. 2000 Jul 26;284(4):483-5] See, eg: http://www.rachel.org/bulletin/bulletin.cfm?Issue_ID=1677 - lots more at Rachel's. The argument against this is usually that the system isn't working properly but if it did there wouldn't be a problem. Note this however: The rate of iatrogenic infections has increased 36% in the past 20 years partly because people entering hospitals now are sicker and more vulnerable then they were 20 years ago... This is far from the only indication that the system itself is failing to deliver health even where it doesn't make mistakes. The system is the mistake. If that's science I think I'll vote for superstition. So you apparently reject Chopra's message of peace on the grounds that he espouses a long-established medical discipline some practitioners of which advocate drinking urine. You don't even say that Chopra advocates it, and I don't think he does. So why this backhanded attack which appears to be without any relevance to what the man said? Anyway I wouldn't know about the urine, except that if you'd been less closed-minded about it and bothered to do some checking you should have been able to find enough to conclude that it is not without a practical basis, as I found when I checked it some years ago after an Indian PM announced that he regularly drank his urine. So where's your data Bob? Apart from its lack of relevance to the substance of the message, you now have to show that the treatment is not beneficial, not simply demand that someone else proves that it is beneficial. Digging up some or other special examples of conditions where it wouldn't be beneficial won't do: not beneficial in general please. Data. Best Keith http://www.indiangyan.com/books/therapybooks/Uropathy/my_personal_exp eriments.shtml Once during my lecture, one gentleman rose from the audience and asked me Mr. Thakkar, you are talking so highly about urine treatment for all tooth problems, but my experience is otherwise with it. I am washing my mouth with urine since two years, still I have lost my two teeth and the third one is loose and is on the verge of going. I asked him, How long you you rinse your mouth with urine? His reply was for a minute or two. The defect in the treatment was detected instantly. One has to fill his or her mouth with fresh urine for ten minutes so that it can be absorbed by the gums and would reach the roots of the teeth. He informed me after few days that his teeth had become all right with my technique within a week. During last ten years thousands of people have vouched the efficacy of U.T. on teeth and gum problems of various types. D. Mindock wrote: Mike, I am glad you liked the article. We need to be agents of change, to transform the planet into one where peace and caring prevail. As individuals we need to become peaceful within ourselves, then we can radiate peace everywhere. Prayer and continous positive affirmations can help rewire ourselves to a peaceful state. WRT a standard prayer for the list, how about: In peace I journey to forever. Visioning peace becoming peace, individually, is a milestone on the way. We do each create reality for ourselves. Imagining this world as one where peace exists in each individual and between countries should make it happen, to become real for each of us; the idea here is that when a critical number of people are at peace internally then the rest will be entrained and switch over easily. So we must become peace so that we can project it. We are electrical creatures. People like Dubya and Cheney are not at peace within themselves, imo. That is why it is so easy for them to advocate war and attack the environment. They see scarcity where there is abundance. But they could not do the tragic things they do without lots of like-minded people. So we imaginers have to get busy. John Lennon's Imagine seems to be appropriate here. Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
The only use I have for it is dissolving jellyfish spines, and no I do not currently have any of those. So I do not need for you to urinate on my leg thanks, I can do that fine myself. From:"JAMES PHELPS" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak ChopraDate:Thu, 02 Nov 2006 08:12:46 -0700Bob,While your at it be sure to spit it out on your hands and feet - Its also supposed to cure cracked chapped skin, Please excuse me I must go brush and gargle with peroxide and baking soda I'm just to big a coward to use urine for anything but Compost activator.Sorry to sound skeptical Bob but I have to drw the line somewhere.;^)JimFrom: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak ChopraDate: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 08:32:06 -0600Ah yes, Deepak Chopra, promoter of Ayuvedic medicine, where it is thought that the consumption ofyour urine is medically beneficial.Nothing like a warm cup of piss to start the day...:0http://www.indiangyan.com/books/therapybooks/Uropathy/my_personal_experiments.shtmlOnce during my lecture, one gentleman rose from the audience and asked me "Mr. Thakkar, you aretalking so highly about urine treatment for all tooth problems, but my experience is otherwise withit. I am washing my mouth with urine since two years, still I have lost my two teeth and the thirdone is loose and is on the verge of going." I asked him, "How long you you rinse your mouth withurine?" His reply was "for a minute or two". The defect in the treatment was detected instantly. Onehas to fill his or her mouth with fresh urine for ten minutes so that it can be absorbed by the gumsand would reach the roots of the teeth. He informed me after few days that his teeth had become allright with my technique within a week. During last ten years thousands of people have vouched theefficacy of U.T. on teeth and gum problems of various types.D. Mindock wrote: Mike, I am glad you liked the article. We need to be agents of change, to transform the planet into one where peace and caring prevail. As individuals we need to become peaceful within ourselves, then we can radiate peace everywhere. Prayer and continous positive affirmations can help rewire ourselves to a peaceful state. WRT a standard prayer for the list, how about: In peace I journey to forever. Visioning peace becoming peace, individually, is a milestone on the way. We do each create reality for ourselves. Imagining this world as one where peace exists in each individual and between countries should make it happen, to become real for each of us; the idea here is that when a critical number of people are at peace internally then the rest will be entrained and switch over easily. So we must become peace so that we can project it. We are electrical creatures. People like Dubya and Cheney are not at peace within themselves, imo. That is why it is so easy for them to advocate war and attack the environment. They see scarcity where there is abundance. But they could not do the tragic things they do without lots of like-minded people. So we imaginers have to get busy. John Lennon's Imagine seems to be appropriate here. Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today... Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one Namasté Peace to all, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak ChopraHi D...I really appreciate reading this...but you know what's coming: "Show me the data!" Aside from that, whatever might happen to society as a whole as a result of many individuals imagining a better world, what happens to the individual in the process of doing so is what matters most. Along these lines, I was wondering: what if the List adopted a prayer, something simple, just a few words, that each of us might remember and recite to ourselves at the same time each day.Not that it would be the same time for everyone, but that each one would imagine and recite it at the same time day each day.The List is global, so it is conceivable that at any given moment or during any given hour, the prayer would be spoken, the "imaginal cells" appearing.I have no idea what we might all say,
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
Bob...I gotta be honest, it's fatheads like you that really piss off fatheads like me and maybe that's why hope for anything but misery generally on this planet is all there really can be. Nonetheless, it's also fatheads like you that make fatheads like me take note that whatever hope for anything beyond misery generally on this planet that there may bemust first be imagined and felt individually. So thanks...for the opportunity to strengthen my resolve for hope and peace and light and love within myself and just generally giving a damn about what really matters even if there is no data prove it. Mike DuPree PS Bob, there is also something called critical reading. It's basically about understanding both the context and content of what is written. Your response indicates you have not learned how to read critically. Amazing, since you are the one who keeps advocating "Show me the data!" No doubt, you have been "blinded by the light." Not unusual. It's a common problem, due in large part to a major shortage of teachers who know how to do samemuch less teach it. Hang in there, buddy. Fortunately ourimmediate destinies are all the same...the grave. Beyond that, of course, who knows. I'm confident, however, if it turns out to be something other than nothing, you'll get the help you need to grow beyond your pain. - Original Message - From: "bob allen" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Ah yes, Deepak Chopra, promoter of Ayuvedic medicine, where it is thought that the consumption of your urine is medically beneficial. Nothing like a warm cup of piss to start the day...:0 http://www.indiangyan.com/books/therapybooks/Uropathy/my_personal_experiments.shtml Once during my lecture, one gentleman rose from the audience and asked me "Mr. Thakkar, you are talking so highly about urine treatment for all tooth problems, but my experience is otherwise with it. I am washing my mouth with urine since two years, still I have lost my two teeth and the third one is loose and is on the verge of going." I asked him, "How long you you rinse your mouth with urine?" His reply was "for a minute or two". The defect in the treatment was detected instantly. One has to fill his or her mouth with fresh urine for ten minutes so that it can be absorbed by the gums and would reach the roots of the teeth. He informed me after few days that his teeth had become all right with my technique within a week. During last ten years thousands of people have vouched the efficacy of U.T. on teeth and gum problems of various types. D. Mindock wrote: Mike, I am glad you liked the article. We need to be agents of change, to transform the planet into one where peace and caring prevail. As individuals we need to become peaceful within ourselves, then we can radiate peace everywhere. Prayer and continous positive affirmations can help rewire ourselves to a peaceful state. WRT a standard prayer for the list, how about: In peace I journey to forever. Visioning peace becoming peace, individually, is a milestone on the way. We do each create reality for ourselves. Imagining this world as one where peace exists in each individual and between countries should make it happen, to become real for each of us; the idea here is that when a critical number of people are at peace internally then the rest will be entrained and switch over easily. So we must become peace so that we can project it. We are electrical creatures. People like Dubya and Cheney are not at peace within themselves, imo. That is why it is so easy for them to advocate war and attack the environment. They see scarcity where there is abundance. But they could not do the tragic things they do without lots of like-minded people. So we imaginers have to get busy. John Lennon's Imagine seems to be appropriate here. Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today... Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one Namasté Peace to all, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Hi D...I really appreciate reading this...but you know what's coming: "Show me the data!" Aside from that, whatever might happen to
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Hallo Joe, Thursday, 02 November, 2006, 10:05:46, you wrote: JS ' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful there JS Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying that there JS is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3 times) ( is that JS like tapping the heels of your shoes three times?.lol) well then how JS can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or otherwise? JS Joe It's worse than that Joe. He demands data on the efficacy of homeopathic products stating that the work to falsify homeopathy has been done but provides zero data to falsify homeopathy as a legitimate method of treatment. Evidently he hasn't heard that what is good for the goose is good for the gander or of logical debate for that matter. If he had anything other than an opinion he would provide it but it isn't in any of his mails nor will it ever be because the work has apparently not been done. I haven't followed this thread but would like to know if he has cited any hard data or has he only cited the opinions of some scientists or nothing at all. Homeopathy has not been falsified because either no one has taken the trouble to do it or it works is what it looks like. His science is as hard as the testimonies he decries and his data against homeopathy is as lacking as the hard data for it. Some folks just like to talk for the sake of talking. Happy Happy, Gustl JS bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. actually it can be. see above More than can be said of many pharma nostrums. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method. agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen To: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in
Re: [Biofuel] Say no to mercury in your teeth
Joe Street wrote: Alright so my point is that mercury vapour is toxic. the problem Joe is that the word toxic is meaningless without exposure information (as you yourself allude to below). It is common sense that less harm will result from less exposure of a toxin. I have had dentists tell me the mercury is locked up safely by the silver in the amalgam and that makes it safe because it can't get in your body. so how about this- considering the amount and vapor pressure of Mercury and the fact that metallic mercury is poorly absorbed in the body suggests that damage due to this level of exposure is minimal. This is born out via epidimiological data accumulated over several decades. Of course science is self correcting so if data showing harm at this level of exposure is presented, then I will change my tune. And yes there can be flawed data or ourright fraud, concerning the risks of dental amalgam, but I just don't see a reason why. Actually a dentist woulld make money by a) not repairing minor cavities- hence more costs down the line, or b) using more expensive reconstruction materials. And remember alternative construction materials, with shorter track records for safety and efficacy, may put you at greater risk. (the law of unintended consequences) This one guy went on to say that mercury is a lot less toxic than the paranoia suggests. He cited examples of kids chewing thermometers and swallowing liquid mercury which is passed with no ill effect. On the surface this may seem true enough, and sure I have held a pool of quicksilver in my hand as a lad and had fun playing with it. Didn't drop dead. It's the vapour which gets you right? Just don't heat it right? But mercury does have some vapour pressure at room temperature just as any liquid does. The spectrometer will detect it in your breath so yes mercury vapour does come out of the amalgam fillings in my teeth. but is the exposure significant? And for that matter what is a significant risk? how much do you want to spend to mitigate risk? The MSDS doesn't give much info on what SUBTLE effects result from very low level exposure over a lifetime. true enough There is a funny thing I notice around here with the science faculty. Whenever the subject of exposure to traces comes up there is this reaction which is typically a tilt of the head and a shrug of the shoulders combined with the sound of air escaping from the nostrils. I don't know if this is some kind of stoicism or what but it is as if the person is saying 'yeah it's true a LOT of chemists die of cancer in their middle age, but nothing can be done about this'. or perhaps scientists have a keener sense of relative risk? Or is it a suggestion that they believe something along the lines of 'yeah but not me' I don't get it, but it is quite common amongst people who make their living in that field. On the other hand I have been told that the process of removal results in a dose over the short term which is higher than the dose recieved if they are left alone over the long term. I have seen studies to the effect that the body burden of mercury rises after the removal process. I don't know which is worse or what to believe at this point and that is where it sits unfortunately. life's a bitch, and then you die. I'm leaving them alone, unless they get loose and need to be removed for that reason. probably the prudent thing to do based on currently available data, right? Joe bob allen wrote: Cool, but not surprising. I few years ago I was looking at the mercury content of bream in the Ozarks. (found it to be well under a ppm generally via cold vapor fluorescence) I did the analysis in a state lab in Little Rock. technique was so sensitive that the mercury analysis was shut down for a week because a guy broke a thermometer in a lab in the same building as the lab I worked in but hundreds of feet away, which swamped the detector. Joe Street wrote: Hey Bob; I know this guy here at the U and he makes these micro mass specs. Turns out the increase in sensitivity is non linear with the decrease in physical size of the analyzer. So as it turns out if a sample of exhaled breath is analyzed he can make a pretty good guess how many fillings you have in your head based on mercury loading. Here is his site: http://orchard.uwaterloo.ca/ Joe bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: When one considers what would happen to dentistry should they admit mercury is actually toxic and shouldnt be in your mouth the data don't support your claim, plain and simple. we realize it will be a cold day in hell when they do. Either the EPA is right or the dentists are right you cant have it both ways. yes you can if you know a little chemistry. The the absorption, distibution, metabolism and
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Joe Street wrote: ' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful there Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying that there is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3 times) ( is that like tapping the heels of your shoes three times?.lol) well then how can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or otherwise? the mere expectation of an outcome can bring on the outcome. that is what the placebo effect is all about, and why it is necessary to do double blind , placebo controlled testing for efficacy. What ever effect a homeopathic nostrum does must be occurring via a placebo effect, as it can't be due to the chemical which is no longer there. Joe bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. actually it can be. see above More than can be said of many pharma nostrums. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method. agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen To: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for heart problems, the dermatologist for skin problems, etc Your mouth, gums, jaw bone, teeth are still a part of the whole .. nothing is going to exist in isolation inside the human physical body. Do you know a good herbalist? I'm thinking something missing .. but if you have some level of toxic substance as a core problem (don't we all), then homeopathy could be the road. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
MK DuPree wrote: Bob...I gotta be honest, it's fatheads like you that really piss off fatheads am I not supposed to feel offended if you offend yourself? like me and maybe that's why hope for anything but misery generally on this planet is all there really can be. Nonetheless, it's also fatheads like you that make fatheads like me take note that whatever hope for anything beyond misery generally on this planet that there may be must first be imagined and felt individually. So thanks... glad I could be of assistance for the opportunity to strengthen my resolve for hope and peace and light and love within myself and just generally giving a damn about what really matters I agree entirely even if there is no data prove it. uh, if you have no data, how do you know it matters? Mike DuPree PS Bob, there is also something called critical reading. It's basically about understanding both the context and content of what is written. Your response indicates you have not learned how to read critically. Amazing, since you are the one who keeps advocating Show me the data! No doubt, you have been blinded by the light. Not unusual. It's a common problem, due in large part to a major shortage of teachers who know how to do same much less teach it. Hang in there, buddy. Fortunately our immediate destinies are all the same...the grave. Beyond that, of course, who knows. I'm confident, however, if it turns out to be something other than nothing, you'll get the help you need to grow beyond your pain. pain? not here, generally I enjoy life and seek peace and love just like the next guy. - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 8:32 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Ah yes, Deepak Chopra, promoter of Ayuvedic medicine, where it is thought that the consumption of your urine is medically beneficial. Nothing like a warm cup of piss to start the day...:0 http://www.indiangyan.com/books/therapybooks/Uropathy/my_personal_experiments.shtml Once during my lecture, one gentleman rose from the audience and asked me Mr. Thakkar, you are talking so highly about urine treatment for all tooth problems, but my experience is otherwise with it. I am washing my mouth with urine since two years, still I have lost my two teeth and the third one is loose and is on the verge of going. I asked him, How long you you rinse your mouth with urine? His reply was for a minute or two. The defect in the treatment was detected instantly. One has to fill his or her mouth with fresh urine for ten minutes so that it can be absorbed by the gums and would reach the roots of the teeth. He informed me after few days that his teeth had become all right with my technique within a week. During last ten years thousands of people have vouched the efficacy of U.T. on teeth and gum problems of various types. D. Mindock wrote: Mike, I am glad you liked the article. We need to be agents of change, to transform the planet into one where peace and caring prevail. As individuals we need to become peaceful within ourselves, then we can radiate peace everywhere. Prayer and continous positive affirmations can help rewire ourselves to a peaceful state. WRT a standard prayer for the list, how about: In peace I journey to forever. Visioning peace becoming peace, individually, is a milestone on the way. We do each create reality for ourselves. Imagining this world as one where peace exists in each individual and between countries should make it happen, to become real for each of us; the idea here is that when a critical number of people are at peace internally then the rest will be entrained and switch over easily. So we must become peace so that we can project it. We are electrical creatures. People like Dubya and Cheney are not at peace within themselves, imo. That is why it is so easy for them to advocate war and attack the environment. They see scarcity where there is abundance. But they could not do the tragic things they do without lots of like-minded people. So we imaginers have to get busy. John Lennon's Imagine seems to be appropriate here. Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today... Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
PLACEBO EFFECT .. ANIMALS/PLACEBO EFFECT .. ANIMALS / PLACEBO EFFECT .. ANIMALS Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 10:24:19 -0600 Joe Street wrote: ' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful there Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying that there is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3 times) ( is that like tapping the heels of your shoes three times?.lol) well then how can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or otherwise? the mere expectation of an outcome can bring on the outcome. that is what the placebo effect is all about, and why it is necessary to do double blind , placebo controlled testing for efficacy. What ever effect a homeopathic nostrum does must be occurring via a placebo effect, as it can't be due to the chemical which is no longer there. Joe bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. actually it can be. see above More than can be said of many pharma nostrums. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method. agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen To: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue re-growth is as much of a separation of self as seeing the heart specialist for
Re: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options
Dave: Nice link, you solved one of the issue, what to use as a binder. Jason: That is a very interesting idea. I was under the impression that WVO does not burn clean due to the FFA's. I was thinking of adding a burn ring to the stove so that it can do waste oil burning but that too looked not to burn clean enough. If WVO/Glycerin will burn clean enough then that mix should work well. Now to find a method to chip branches down to the needed size and not use more energy doing it then the final product gives. Jeromie Jason Katie wrote: what if some kind of sausage packer type press could be made for a mix of sawdust and WVO or glycerine? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options You can probably create press of some type based on this concept: http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/paper/brick/ Paper, saw dust, straw, etc. Plus, won't corn work as well? -dave On Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:35 AM, Jeromie Reeves wrote: Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:35:35 -0800 From: Jeromie Reeves To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options Hello. Does anyone else use a pellet stove? Prices have jumped this year from $2.25~2.75 to $4.75+ That fairly dries up the reason to have/use the stove (cheaper cleaner fuel then oil/propane/classic wood) I am looking for other fuel options. I would love to produce my own pellets as I have access to tons of waste wood but it needs at least a season to be ready. I also have not been able to find a pellet machine that was not a million dollar investment. I have been thinking of using straw and hay as we have plenty of it here. Also there is a small personal mill in town that makes a fair bit of sawdust. Does anyone know of a pellet press or know of a way to make one? Jeromie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.22/512 - Release Date: 11/1/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
Hi Jim Bob, While your at it be sure to spit it out on your hands and feet - Its also supposed to cure cracked chapped skin, Please excuse me I must go brush and gargle with peroxide and baking soda I'm just to big a coward to use urine for anything but Compost activator. In other words you're willing to turn it into vegetables first and then you'll eat it? Commendable, it's full of minerals and I'm sure it tastes better that way, but maybe it's not that different eh? No I'm not advocating drinking urine, I don't really have an opinion either way, but there's a prejudice here (pre-judgment), especially for urbanised Westerners (much less so for Asians) - a great many people are just as appalled at the idea of using it as a compost activator, or doing anything at all with it other than vanishing it down the world's most wasteful device, the flush toilet. We ought to beware of such prejudices, IMHO. Best Keith Sorry to sound skeptical Bob but I have to drw the line somewhere. ;^) Jim From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 08:32:06 -0600 Ah yes, Deepak Chopra, promoter of Ayuvedic medicine, where it is thought that the consumption of your urine is medically beneficial. Nothing like a warm cup of piss to start the day...:0 http://www.indiangyan.com/books/therapybooks/Uropathy/my_personal_ex periments.shtml Once during my lecture, one gentleman rose from the audience and asked me Mr. Thakkar, you are talking so highly about urine treatment for all tooth problems, but my experience is otherwise with it. I am washing my mouth with urine since two years, still I have lost my two teeth and the third one is loose and is on the verge of going. I asked him, How long you you rinse your mouth with urine? His reply was for a minute or two. The defect in the treatment was detected instantly. One has to fill his or her mouth with fresh urine for ten minutes so that it can be absorbed by the gums and would reach the roots of the teeth. He informed me after few days that his teeth had become all right with my technique within a week. During last ten years thousands of people have vouched the efficacy of U.T. on teeth and gum problems of various types. D. Mindock wrote: Mike, I am glad you liked the article. We need to be agents of change, to transform the planet into one where peace and caring prevail. As individuals we need to become peaceful within ourselves, then we can radiate peace everywhere. Prayer and continous positive affirmations can help rewire ourselves to a peaceful state. WRT a standard prayer for the list, how about: In peace I journey to forever. Visioning peace becoming peace, individually, is a milestone on the way. We do each create reality for ourselves. Imagining this world as one where peace exists in each individual and between countries should make it happen, to become real for each of us; the idea here is that when a critical number of people are at peace internally then the rest will be entrained and switch over easily. So we must become peace so that we can project it. We are electrical creatures. People like Dubya and Cheney are not at peace within themselves, imo. That is why it is so easy for them to advocate war and attack the environment. They see scarcity where there is abundance. But they could not do the tragic things they do without lots of like-minded people. So we imaginers have to get busy. John Lennon's Imagine seems to be appropriate here. Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today... Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one Namasté Peace to all, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Hi D...I really appreciate reading this...but you know what's coming: Show me the data! Aside from that, whatever might happen to society as a whole as a result of many individuals imagining a better world, what happens to the individual in the process of doing so is what matters most. Along these lines, I was wondering: what if the List adopted a prayer, something simple,
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
bob allen wrote: Joe Street wrote: ' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful there Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying that there is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3 times) ( is that like tapping the heels of your shoes three times?.lol) well then how can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or otherwise? the mere expectation of an outcome can bring on the outcome. So you are admitting that the mind is a part of reality and not just a part but a part which has substantial power to effect an outcome. But where is the evidence of the mind? I don't know of any scientific experiment which has detected it. You can cross section any lobe of my brain and I guarantee you will not find any trace of my mind. It would seem then from a scientific, hard evidence perspective that the mind does not have a physical reality. And yet it has a very real power to affect reality. Hmm. You said in a previous post: " I know, I'm a firm believer in physical reality, and thats where I get in trouble with those who accept supernatural explanations of natural phenomena." But you believe the placebo effect is real. I think that's called a circular argument isn't it? Joe that is what the placebo effect is all about, and why it is necessary to do double blind , placebo controlled testing for efficacy. What ever effect a homeopathic nostrum does must be occurring via a placebo effect, as it can't be due to the chemical which is no longer there. Joe bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. actually it can be. see above More than can be said of many pharma nostrums. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or "science". I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method. agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: "bob allen" To: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there is nothing left at all. A little critical thinking goes a long way here. There may be some herbs out there for which there is credible evidence for efficacy, but as far as homeopathy goes- it is nonsense. Marylynn Schmidt wrote: Just my thoughts on the matter of bone (or anything) re-growth .. We are a whole and the whole must be treated so going to a dentist for bone re-growth and/or gum tissue
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
Keith Addison wrote: Ah yes, Deepak Chopra, promoter of Ayuvedic medicine, where it is thought that the consumption of your urine is medically beneficial. Nothing like a warm cup of piss to start the day...:0 Uh-huh, Bob, where's your data that it's not beneficial? Everybody knows that, do they, no need for data? Aryuvedic, homeopathic, herbal, alternative-whatever, it seems it's all just a crock of worse-than-useless shit in your view unless it's modern industrialised allopathic Western medicine, which has the *data* to back it up, eh? wouldn't you agree that having data is better than not? good bad or otherwise, data provides the tools to make decisions, right? for instance I know form the data presented below that I am putting myself at risk by visiting a hospital, so I do my best to stay out of them. But, and here is the relative risk part, I also know that if I get run over by a truck and am seriously injured, that all of a sudden the equations change, and I would seek out a hospital. With this result, among many others: Re iatrogenic illness, there's at least a 1 in 500 chance of getting killed by medical treatment in the US, 1.8 million people per year pick up infections in US hospitals, 20,000 of them die, it contributes to an additional 70,000 deaths, at a cost of $4.5 billion, according to the CDC; other reports have found much higher rates. [225,000 deaths per year in the US from iatrogenic causes - JAMA. 2000 Jul 26;284(4):483-5] See, eg: http://www.rachel.org/bulletin/bulletin.cfm?Issue_ID=1677 - lots more at Rachel's. The argument against this is usually that the system isn't working properly but if it did there wouldn't be a problem. I would say it this way: less errors mean less risk. For example any surgical procedure is risky and if no surgery was done then there would be no risk, but how much shorter would life be or how would the quality of life reduced. You seem to suggest that I am defending unhealthy western medical practices such as over prescribing antibiotics, or what ever- I'm not. Note this however: The rate of iatrogenic infections has increased 36% in the past 20 years partly because people entering hospitals now are sicker and more vulnerable then they were 20 years ago... not to mention the fact that we (the us population ) is on average older than it was 20 years ago- and age is a sure fire health risk This is far from the only indication that the system itself is failing to deliver health even where it doesn't make mistakes. The system is the mistake. and you would replace it with what? If that's science I think I'll vote for superstition. So you apparently reject Chopra's message of peace on the grounds I don't reject his message, just the fact that he always wants to couch matters in the mystical. Hell, everybody knows that they should go out and do good deeds and be a model for others, but is it necessary to create relatively meaningless terms like imaginal cells? that he espouses a long-established medical discipline some practitioners of which advocate drinking urine. You don't even say that Chopra advocates it, and I don't think he does. So why this backhanded attack which appears to be without any relevance to what the man said? Anyway I wouldn't know about the urine, except that if you'd been less closed-minded about it and bothered to do some checking you should have been able to find enough to conclude that it is not without a practical basis, as I found when I checked it some years ago after an Indian PM announced that he regularly drank his urine. So where's your data Bob? Apart from its lack of relevance to the substance of the message, you now have to show that the treatment is not beneficial, aw Kieth, you know you can't prove a negative not simply demand that someone else proves that it is beneficial. Digging up some or other special examples of conditions where it wouldn't be beneficial won't do: not beneficial in general please. Data. Best Keith OK how about this: I know that I will die if I don't urinate on a regular basis- (urea is toxic).As a precaution, I am not going to do things that increase my risk, such as drinking urine. Wouldn't that be employing a precautionary principle? toodles http://www.indiangyan.com/books/therapybooks/Uropathy/my_personal_exp eriments.shtml Once during my lecture, one gentleman rose from the audience and asked me Mr. Thakkar, you are talking so highly about urine treatment for all tooth problems, but my experience is otherwise with it. I am washing my mouth with urine since two years, still I have lost my two teeth and the third one is loose and is on the verge of going. I asked him, How long you you rinse your mouth with urine? His reply was for a minute or two. The defect in the treatment was detected
Re: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options
Hey Jeromie; Look into termites. Yeah I'm not joshin you. Feed termites with the wood and bind the dust they make with the glycerin. If you put the termite pile in a sealed container then you can harvest the methane the termites produce and use it as fuel as well ;) Joe Jeromie Reeves wrote: Dave: Nice link, you solved one of the issue, what to use as a binder. Jason: That is a very interesting idea. I was under the impression that WVO does not burn clean due to the FFA's. I was thinking of adding a burn ring to the stove so that it can do waste oil burning but that too looked not to burn clean enough. If WVO/Glycerin will burn clean enough then that mix should work well. Now to find a method to chip branches down to the needed size and not use more energy doing it then the final product gives. Jeromie Jason Katie wrote: what if some kind of sausage packer type press could be made for a mix of sawdust and WVO or glycerine? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options You can probably create press of some type based on this concept: http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/paper/brick/ Paper, saw dust, straw, etc. Plus, won't corn work as well? -dave On Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:35 AM, Jeromie Reeves wrote: Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:35:35 -0800 From: Jeromie Reeves To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options Hello. Does anyone else use a pellet stove? Prices have jumped this year from $2.25~2.75 to $4.75+ That fairly dries up the reason to have/use the stove (cheaper cleaner fuel then oil/propane/classic wood) I am looking for other fuel options. I would love to produce my own pellets as I have access to tons of waste wood but it needs at least a season to be ready. I also have not been able to find a pellet machine that was not a million dollar investment. I have been thinking of using straw and hay as we have plenty of it here. Also there is a small personal mill in town that makes a fair bit of sawdust. Does anyone know of a pellet press or know of a way to make one? Jeromie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.22/512 - Release Date: 11/1/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
MK DuPree wrote: James...Bob is being facetious and a fathead. Not judging, just noting. Mike DuPree name calling, an effective way to win hearts and minds... - Original Message - From: JAMES PHELPS [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Bob, While your at it be sure to spit it out on your hands and feet - Its also supposed to cure cracked chapped skin, Please excuse me I must go brush and gargle with peroxide and baking soda I'm just to big a coward to use urine for anything but Compost activator. Sorry to sound skeptical Bob but I have to drw the line somewhere. ;^) Jim From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 08:32:06 -0600 Ah yes, Deepak Chopra, promoter of Ayuvedic medicine, where it is thought that the consumption of your urine is medically beneficial. Nothing like a warm cup of piss to start the day...:0 http://www.indiangyan.com/books/therapybooks/Uropathy/my_personal_experiments.shtml Once during my lecture, one gentleman rose from the audience and asked me Mr. Thakkar, you are talking so highly about urine treatment for all tooth problems, but my experience is otherwise with it. I am washing my mouth with urine since two years, still I have lost my two teeth and the third one is loose and is on the verge of going. I asked him, How long you you rinse your mouth with urine? His reply was for a minute or two. The defect in the treatment was detected instantly. One has to fill his or her mouth with fresh urine for ten minutes so that it can be absorbed by the gums and would reach the roots of the teeth. He informed me after few days that his teeth had become all right with my technique within a week. During last ten years thousands of people have vouched the efficacy of U.T. on teeth and gum problems of various types. D. Mindock wrote: Mike, I am glad you liked the article. We need to be agents of change, to transform the planet into one where peace and caring prevail. As individuals we need to become peaceful within ourselves, then we can radiate peace everywhere. Prayer and continous positive affirmations can help rewire ourselves to a peaceful state. WRT a standard prayer for the list, how about: In peace I journey to forever. Visioning peace becoming peace, individually, is a milestone on the way. We do each create reality for ourselves. Imagining this world as one where peace exists in each individual and between countries should make it happen, to become real for each of us; the idea here is that when a critical number of people are at peace internally then the rest will be entrained and switch over easily. So we must become peace so that we can project it. We are electrical creatures. People like Dubya and Cheney are not at peace within themselves, imo. That is why it is so easy for them to advocate war and attack the environment. They see scarcity where there is abundance. But they could not do the tragic things they do without lots of like-minded people. So we imaginers have to get busy. John Lennon's Imagine seems to be appropriate here. Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today... Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one Namasté Peace to all, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Hi D...I really appreciate reading this...but you know what's coming: Show me the data! Aside from that, whatever might happen to society as a whole as a result of many individuals imagining a better world, what happens to the individual in the process of doing so is what matters most. Along these lines, I was
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Howdy Gustl Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: Hallo Joe, Thursday, 02 November, 2006, 10:05:46, you wrote: JS ' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful there JS Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying that there JS is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3 times) ( is that JS like tapping the heels of your shoes three times?.lol) well then how JS can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or otherwise? JS Joe It's worse than that Joe. He demands data on the efficacy of homeopathic products stating that the work to falsify homeopathy has been done but provides zero data to falsify homeopathy as a legitimate method of treatment. so your saying that because I can't prove that it doesn't work, means that it does? here is what I can prove: the dilutions employed in homeopathy are such that there is nothing left of the agent (the duck liver for example) in the final product. Logic alone would suggest then that the duck liver has no effect on the outcome of the use of the product, unless you accept that the water remembered the duck liver, and this was transfered to the filler in the capsule taken. One, I would think, has to suspend any connection to reality to believe that the water remembers what was in it. toodles Evidently he hasn't heard that what is good for the goose is good for the gander or of logical debate for that matter. If he had anything other than an opinion he would provide it but it isn't in any of his mails nor will it ever be because the work has apparently not been done. I haven't followed this thread but would like to know if he has cited any hard data or has he only cited the opinions of some scientists or nothing at all. Homeopathy has not been falsified because either no one has taken the trouble to do it or it works is what it looks like. His science is as hard as the testimonies he decries and his data against homeopathy is as lacking as the hard data for it. Some folks just like to talk for the sake of talking. Happy Happy, Gustl JS bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. actually it can be. see above More than can be said of many pharma nostrums. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method. agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen To: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are diluted to 10 to the 120th power and more. At this concentration there
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Goin' to shoot my ol' lady caught her messin' around with another man... bob allen wrote: Howdy Gustl Gustl Steiner-Zehender wrote: Hallo Joe, Thursday, 02 November, 2006, 10:05:46, you wrote: JS ' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful there JS Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying that there JS is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3 times) ( is that JS like tapping the heels of your shoes three times?.lol) well then how JS can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or otherwise? JS Joe It's worse than that Joe. He demands data on the efficacy of homeopathic products stating that the work to falsify homeopathy has been done but provides zero data to falsify homeopathy as a legitimate method of treatment. so your saying that because I can't prove that it doesn't work, means that it does? here is what I can prove: the dilutions employed in homeopathy are such that there is nothing left of the agent (the duck liver for example) in the final product. Logic alone would suggest then that the duck liver has no effect on the outcome of the use of the product, unless you accept that the water remembered the duck liver, and this was transfered to the filler in the capsule taken. One, I would think, has to suspend any connection to reality to believe that the water remembers what was in it. toodles Evidently he hasn't heard that what is good for the goose is good for the gander or of logical debate for that matter. If he had anything other than an opinion he would provide it but it isn't in any of his mails nor will it ever be because the work has apparently not been done. I haven't followed this thread but would like to know if he has cited any hard data or has he only cited the opinions of some scientists or nothing at all. Homeopathy has not been falsified because either no one has taken the trouble to do it or it works is what it looks like. His science is as hard as the testimonies he decries and his data against homeopathy is as lacking as the hard data for it. Some folks just like to talk for the sake of talking. Happy Happy, Gustl JS bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. actually it can be. see above More than can be said of many pharma nostrums. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method. agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen To: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean extreme. Substances are
Re: [Biofuel] Two articles on the NAFTA super highway
Joe Street wrote: I read this again and realized there is an unwritten assumption in your statement. That is that one world government is bad. But I would object that one world government might be exactly what this world needs.so long as it is not controlled by capitalists that is. We need a benevolent king. I have someone in mind . . . robert luis rabello "The Edge of Justice" Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
Thats actually an effective polictical strategy. You may have heard of the book in defense of negativity kind of interesting how people are moving away from calm rational debate and more toward who can shout louder. Interesting at least. From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 11:42:12 -0600 MK DuPree wrote: James...Bob is being facetious and a fathead. Not judging, just noting. Mike DuPree name calling, an effective way to win hearts and minds... - Original Message - From: JAMES PHELPS [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Bob, While your at it be sure to spit it out on your hands and feet - Its also supposed to cure cracked chapped skin, Please excuse me I must go brush and gargle with peroxide and baking soda I'm just to big a coward to use urine for anything but Compost activator. Sorry to sound skeptical Bob but I have to drw the line somewhere. ;^) Jim From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 08:32:06 -0600 Ah yes, Deepak Chopra, promoter of Ayuvedic medicine, where it is thought that the consumption of your urine is medically beneficial. Nothing like a warm cup of piss to start the day...:0 http://www.indiangyan.com/books/therapybooks/Uropathy/my_personal_experiments.shtml Once during my lecture, one gentleman rose from the audience and asked me Mr. Thakkar, you are talking so highly about urine treatment for all tooth problems, but my experience is otherwise with it. I am washing my mouth with urine since two years, still I have lost my two teeth and the third one is loose and is on the verge of going. I asked him, How long you you rinse your mouth with urine? His reply was for a minute or two. The defect in the treatment was detected instantly. One has to fill his or her mouth with fresh urine for ten minutes so that it can be absorbed by the gums and would reach the roots of the teeth. He informed me after few days that his teeth had become all right with my technique within a week. During last ten years thousands of people have vouched the efficacy of U.T. on teeth and gum problems of various types. D. Mindock wrote: Mike, I am glad you liked the article. We need to be agents of change, to transform the planet into one where peace and caring prevail. As individuals we need to become peaceful within ourselves, then we can radiate peace everywhere. Prayer and continous positive affirmations can help rewire ourselves to a peaceful state. WRT a standard prayer for the list, how about: In peace I journey to forever. Visioning peace becoming peace, individually, is a milestone on the way. We do each create reality for ourselves. Imagining this world as one where peace exists in each individual and between countries should make it happen, to become real for each of us; the idea here is that when a critical number of people are at peace internally then the rest will be entrained and switch over easily. So we must become peace so that we can project it. We are electrical creatures. People like Dubya and Cheney are not at peace within themselves, imo. That is why it is so easy for them to advocate war and attack the environment. They see scarcity where there is abundance. But they could not do the tragic things they do without lots of like-minded people. So we imaginers have to get busy. John Lennon's Imagine seems to be appropriate here. Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today... Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one Namasté Peace to all, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday,
Re: [Biofuel] The Dollar's Full-System Meltdown
IF your future view is correct, why not wait to pay down debt? It will be cheaper to pay it off later after inflation, as long as the interest rate isn't too high.On 11/1/06, D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kirk, I started buying gold and silver. Also trying to get rid of debt. I think I better start selling my IRA stock funds while they are up and pay off the debt. I think we're in for a rough ride. We have been Bush whacked. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 12:30 PM Subject: The Dollar's Full-System Meltdown A report in The Sydney Morning Herald stated, "Australia's Treasurer Peter Costello has called on East Asia's central bankers to 'telegraph' their intentions to diversify out of American investments and ensure an 'orderly adjustment'….Central banks in China, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and Hong Kong have channeled immense foreign reserves into American government bonds, helping to prop up the US dollar and hold down interest rates,' said Costello, but 'the strategy has changed.'" Indeed, the strategy has changed. The world has come to its senses and is moving away from the green slip of paper that is currently mired in $8.3 trillion of debt. http://informationclearinghouse.info/article15440.htm -- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switchIt's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it. - Steven Wright How good bad music and bad reasons sound when we march against an enemy. - Friedrich Nietzsche ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
Hey Joe, Joe Street wrote: bob allen wrote: Joe Street wrote: ' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful there Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying that there is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3 times) ( is that like tapping the heels of your shoes three times?.lol) well then how can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or otherwise? the mere expectation of an outcome can bring on the outcome. So you are admitting that the mind is a part of reality and not just a part but a part which has substantial power to effect an outcome. of course, I have never said otherwise, in fact I continue to repeat it as a mantra- placebo controlled... But where is the evidence of the mind? I guess that depends on a definition of mind- how about electrical activity in the brain? I don't know of any scientific experiment which has detected it. positron emission tomography, MRI, etc? You can cross section any lobe of my brain and I guarantee you will not find any trace of my mind. It would seem then from a scientific, hard evidence perspective that the mind does not have a physical reality. And yet it has a very real power to affect reality. Hmm. I don't have to detect the mind to measure it's effects. for example several experiments have shown that in cases where a placebo is reported to diminish pain, that what is in reality happening is an unconscious release of endorphins. Other measurable effects of the mind include somewhat disturbing data that depressed people have a much higher incidence of numerous diseases, including cancer. this is probably mediated via an endocrine-immune system interaction. One really neat example of mind/body interaction (ever so measurable) is the fact that an immune response can be triggered via Pavlovian training. In the experiment, rats were challenged with an allergen and at the same time a bell rang. The then measured the release of histamine, characteristic of a immune response. After training, only the ringing of the bell was necessary to produce the histamine release, no allergen needed. weird huh? but not supernatural . You said in a previous post: I know, I'm a firm believer in physical reality, and thats where I get in trouble with those who accept supernatural explanations of natural phenomena. But you believe the placebo effect is real. I think that's called a circular argument isn't it? Joe no, vide supra toodles that is what the placebo effect is all about, and why it is necessary to do double blind , placebo controlled testing for efficacy. What ever effect a homeopathic nostrum does must be occurring via a placebo effect, as it can't be due to the chemical which is no longer there. Joe bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. actually it can be. see above More than can be said of many pharma nostrums. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method. agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
IT WORKS FOR ME JAMES PHELPS wrote: Thats actually an effective polictical strategy. You may have heard of the book in defense of negativity kind of interesting how people are moving away from calm rational debate and more toward who can shout louder. Interesting at least. From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 11:42:12 -0600 MK DuPree wrote: James...Bob is being facetious and a fathead. Not judging, just noting. Mike DuPree name calling, an effective way to win hearts and minds... - Original Message - From: JAMES PHELPS [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Bob, While your at it be sure to spit it out on your hands and feet - Its also supposed to cure cracked chapped skin, Please excuse me I must go brush and gargle with peroxide and baking soda I'm just to big a coward to use urine for anything but Compost activator. Sorry to sound skeptical Bob but I have to drw the line somewhere. ;^) Jim From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 08:32:06 -0600 Ah yes, Deepak Chopra, promoter of Ayuvedic medicine, where it is thought that the consumption of your urine is medically beneficial. Nothing like a warm cup of piss to start the day...:0 http://www.indiangyan.com/books/therapybooks/Uropathy/my_personal_experiments.shtml Once during my lecture, one gentleman rose from the audience and asked me Mr. Thakkar, you are talking so highly about urine treatment for all tooth problems, but my experience is otherwise with it. I am washing my mouth with urine since two years, still I have lost my two teeth and the third one is loose and is on the verge of going. I asked him, How long you you rinse your mouth with urine? His reply was for a minute or two. The defect in the treatment was detected instantly. One has to fill his or her mouth with fresh urine for ten minutes so that it can be absorbed by the gums and would reach the roots of the teeth. He informed me after few days that his teeth had become all right with my technique within a week. During last ten years thousands of people have vouched the efficacy of U.T. on teeth and gum problems of various types. D. Mindock wrote: Mike, I am glad you liked the article. We need to be agents of change, to transform the planet into one where peace and caring prevail. As individuals we need to become peaceful within ourselves, then we can radiate peace everywhere. Prayer and continous positive affirmations can help rewire ourselves to a peaceful state. WRT a standard prayer for the list, how about: In peace I journey to forever. Visioning peace becoming peace, individually, is a milestone on the way. We do each create reality for ourselves. Imagining this world as one where peace exists in each individual and between countries should make it happen, to become real for each of us; the idea here is that when a critical number of people are at peace internally then the rest will be entrained and switch over easily. So we must become peace so that we can project it. We are electrical creatures. People like Dubya and Cheney are not at peace within themselves, imo. That is why it is so easy for them to advocate war and attack the environment. They see scarcity where there is abundance. But they could not do the tragic things they do without lots of like-minded people. So we imaginers have to get busy. John Lennon's Imagine seems to be appropriate here. Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today... Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
EEEK! ok mike I'll go back to biodiesel. From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 15:00:15 -0500 IT WORKS FOR ME JAMES PHELPS wrote: Thats actually an effective polictical strategy. You may have heard of the book in defense of negativity kind of interesting how people are moving away from calm rational debate and more toward who can shout louder. Interesting at least. From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 11:42:12 -0600 MK DuPree wrote: James...Bob is being facetious and a fathead. Not judging, just noting. Mike DuPree name calling, an effective way to win hearts and minds... - Original Message - From: JAMES PHELPS [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Bob, While your at it be sure to spit it out on your hands and feet - Its also supposed to cure cracked chapped skin, Please excuse me I must go brush and gargle with peroxide and baking soda I'm just to big a coward to use urine for anything but Compost activator. Sorry to sound skeptical Bob but I have to drw the line somewhere. ;^) Jim From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 08:32:06 -0600 Ah yes, Deepak Chopra, promoter of Ayuvedic medicine, where it is thought that the consumption of your urine is medically beneficial. Nothing like a warm cup of piss to start the day...:0 http://www.indiangyan.com/books/therapybooks/Uropathy/my_personal_experiments.shtml Once during my lecture, one gentleman rose from the audience and asked me Mr. Thakkar, you are talking so highly about urine treatment for all tooth problems, but my experience is otherwise with it. I am washing my mouth with urine since two years, still I have lost my two teeth and the third one is loose and is on the verge of going. I asked him, How long you you rinse your mouth with urine? His reply was for a minute or two. The defect in the treatment was detected instantly. One has to fill his or her mouth with fresh urine for ten minutes so that it can be absorbed by the gums and would reach the roots of the teeth. He informed me after few days that his teeth had become all right with my technique within a week. During last ten years thousands of people have vouched the efficacy of U.T. on teeth and gum problems of various types. D. Mindock wrote: Mike, I am glad you liked the article. We need to be agents of change, to transform the planet into one where peace and caring prevail. As individuals we need to become peaceful within ourselves, then we can radiate peace everywhere. Prayer and continous positive affirmations can help rewire ourselves to a peaceful state. WRT a standard prayer for the list, how about: In peace I journey to forever. Visioning peace becoming peace, individually, is a milestone on the way. We do each create reality for ourselves. Imagining this world as one where peace exists in each individual and between countries should make it happen, to become real for each of us; the idea here is that when a critical number of people are at peace internally then the rest will be entrained and switch over easily. So we must become peace so that we can project it. We are electrical creatures. People like Dubya and Cheney are not at peace within themselves, imo. That is why it is so easy for them to advocate war and attack the environment. They see scarcity where there is abundance. But they could not do the tragic things they do without lots of like-minded people. So we imaginers have to get busy. John Lennon's Imagine seems to be appropriate here. Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today... Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
As I said, not judging, just noting. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra MK DuPree wrote: James...Bob is being facetious and a fathead. Not judging, just noting. Mike DuPree name calling, an effective way to win hearts and minds... - Original Message - From: JAMES PHELPS [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:12 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Bob, While your at it be sure to spit it out on your hands and feet - Its also supposed to cure cracked chapped skin, Please excuse me I must go brush and gargle with peroxide and baking soda I'm just to big a coward to use urine for anything but Compost activator. Sorry to sound skeptical Bob but I have to drw the line somewhere. ;^) Jim From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 08:32:06 -0600 Ah yes, Deepak Chopra, promoter of Ayuvedic medicine, where it is thought that the consumption of your urine is medically beneficial. Nothing like a warm cup of piss to start the day...:0 http://www.indiangyan.com/books/therapybooks/Uropathy/my_personal_experiments.shtml Once during my lecture, one gentleman rose from the audience and asked me Mr. Thakkar, you are talking so highly about urine treatment for all tooth problems, but my experience is otherwise with it. I am washing my mouth with urine since two years, still I have lost my two teeth and the third one is loose and is on the verge of going. I asked him, How long you you rinse your mouth with urine? His reply was for a minute or two. The defect in the treatment was detected instantly. One has to fill his or her mouth with fresh urine for ten minutes so that it can be absorbed by the gums and would reach the roots of the teeth. He informed me after few days that his teeth had become all right with my technique within a week. During last ten years thousands of people have vouched the efficacy of U.T. on teeth and gum problems of various types. D. Mindock wrote: Mike, I am glad you liked the article. We need to be agents of change, to transform the planet into one where peace and caring prevail. As individuals we need to become peaceful within ourselves, then we can radiate peace everywhere. Prayer and continous positive affirmations can help rewire ourselves to a peaceful state. WRT a standard prayer for the list, how about: In peace I journey to forever. Visioning peace becoming peace, individually, is a milestone on the way. We do each create reality for ourselves. Imagining this world as one where peace exists in each individual and between countries should make it happen, to become real for each of us; the idea here is that when a critical number of people are at peace internally then the rest will be entrained and switch over easily. So we must become peace so that we can project it. We are electrical creatures. People like Dubya and Cheney are not at peace within themselves, imo. That is why it is so easy for them to advocate war and attack the environment. They see scarcity where there is abundance. But they could not do the tragic things they do without lots of like-minded people. So we imaginers have to get busy. John Lennon's Imagine seems to be appropriate here. Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today... Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one Namasté Peace to all, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Hi D...I really appreciate reading this...but you know what's coming: Show me the data! Aside from that,
Re: [Biofuel] The Dollar's Full-System Meltdown
Wait until the inflation starts, get a different job and continue to pay your old debts with your inflated salary. :-) - Original Message - From: Paul S Cantrell To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The Dollar's Full-System Meltdown IF your future view is correct, why not wait to pay down debt? It will be cheaper to pay it off later after inflation, as long as the interest rate isn't too high. On 11/1/06, D. Mindock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kirk, I started buying gold and silver. Also trying to get rid of debt. I think I better start selling my IRA stock funds while they are up and pay off the debt. I think we're in for a rough ride. We have been Bush whacked. Peace, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 12:30 PM Subject: The Dollar's Full-System Meltdown A report in The Sydney Morning Herald stated, "Australia's Treasurer Peter Costello has called on East Asia's central bankers to 'telegraph' their intentions to diversify out of American investments and ensure an 'orderly adjustment'….Central banks in China, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, and Hong Kong have channeled immense foreign reserves into American government bonds, helping to prop up the US dollar and hold down interest rates,' said Costello, but 'the strategy has changed.'" Indeed, the strategy has changed. The world has come to its senses and is moving away from the green slip of paper that is currently mired in $8.3 trillion of debt. http://informationclearinghouse.info/article15440.htm -- Thanks,PCHe's the kind of a guy who lights up a room just by flicking a switchIt's a small world, but I wouldn't want to paint it. - Steven Wright How good bad music and bad reasons sound when we march against an enemy. - Friedrich Nietzsche ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Precision Farming Equippment
Great relief to learn that they've got 'The farm of tomorrow' so well planned. J I've just been reading through a call for research proposals by the European Commission, 7th FRAMEWORK PROGRAMME (http://ec.europa.eu/research/future/index_en.cfm) There is one specifc call.. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc.
...no... do you suppose they never thought of it? it seemed kind of a no-brainer to me... Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 1:40 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. Jason...have you talked with the owners/managers about doing what you're saying? curious to hear their response. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Jason Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. i have similar problems at home. there is a landfill not far from my motherinlaw's house and they have a decent gas collecting system, but they torch it all off at a big tower in the southern end of the facility. the 'fill is no longer used, but they could be selling electricity to the grid, which-in that area- is subject to blackouts and such during bad weather. its stupid for them to waste it... Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: John P Gochoco [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 11:21 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. Can someone show me a string of emails...or something showing any discussion regarding the production and use of Methane in the US? I pass by huge poultry's and cow and pig farms almost everyday and not one of them ever even thought of the potentials. They all seem to be sold on the idea of just using manure for fertilizer. Maybe I'm wrong...somebody help me!!! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.22/512 - Release Date: 11/1/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.22/512 - Release Date: 11/1/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.22/512 - Release Date: 11/1/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.23/513 - Release Date: 11/2/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biofuels: A Disaster in the Making
i think its not about biofuels, but cash cropping them that these people are concerned. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 4:44 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Biofuels: A Disaster in the Making Biofuels: A Disaster in the Making by Global Forest Coalition et al. http://www.energybulletin.net/21845.html Simone Lovera writes: Dear all, Please find below an alert to the Conference of the Parties of the Framework Convention on Climate Change on the risks of biofuels. The letter calls upon governments to suspend all subsidies and other forms of inequitabe support for the import and export of biofuels, in the light of the negative environmental and social impacts caused by the large-scale export-oriented production of biofuels. While recognizing that some forms of locally and nationally oriented biofuel production could be sustainable, the letter also calls for strict regulations and effective enforcement measures, to ensure biofuel production at the national level does not impact negatively upon Indigenous Peoples and local communities, and their livelihoods. We just started gathering signatures to this letter. Please let us know before Saturday 4 November (at simonelovera@ yahoo.com) if your organization is willing to support it. Other feedback is welcome too. Best wishes, Simone Simone Lovera Campaigns coordinator Global Forest Coalition Bruselas 2273 Asunci^n, Paraguay tel/fax: 595-21-663654 www.wrm.org.uy/GFC/ Email: simonelovera@ yahoo.com The undersigned NGOs, Indigenous Peoples Organizations, farmer'Äôs movements and individuals call upon the Parties to the Framework Convention on Climate Change to immediately suspend all subsidies and other forms of inequitable support for the import and export of biofuels. We recognize that the local production and consumption of biomass plays an important role in sustainable livelihood strategies of, in particular, rural women in developing countries. Certain small-scale and strictly regulated sustainable forms of biofuel production can be beneficial at the national level. However, the modalities of biomass consumption and production must be carefully analyzed in conjunction with communities, to introduce adaptive measures that will maintain and enhance the patterns of sustainability, while avoiding negative impacts on health and the adverse effects inherent to increases in demand or changes in socioeconomic settings. Solar energy often offers a sustainable alternative to traditional biomass. Meanwhile, international trade in biofuels is already causing a negative impact on food sovereignty, rural livelihoods, forests and other ecosystems, and these negative impacts are expected to accumulate rapidly. Large-scale, export-oriented production of biofuel requires large-scale monocultures of trees, sugarcane, corn, oilpalm, soy and other crops. These monocultures already form the number one cause of rural depopulation and deforestation worldwide. The rapidly increasing demand for these crops as a source of biofuel will lead to: increased land competition leading to further land concentration, the marginalization of small-scale agriculture and the widespread conversion of forests and other ecosystems; arable land that is currently used to grow food being used to grow fuel, leading to staggering food prices and causing hunger, malnutrition and impoverishment amongst the poorest sectors of society; rural unemployment and depopulation; the destruction of the traditions, cultures, languages and spiritual values of Indigenous Peoples and rural communities; the extensive use of agro-chemicals, which deteriorate human health and ecosystems the destruction of watersheds and the pollution of rivers, lakes and streams; droughts and other local and regional climatic extremes; and the extensive use of genetically modified organisms leading to unprecedented risks. These effects will have particularly a negative impact on women and Indigenous Peoples, who are economically marginalized and more dependent on natural resources like water and forests. Biofuels are a disaster in the making. Existing legally binding standards, regulations and enforcement mechanisms in the (potential) production countries are absolutely insufficient to prevent the above-mentioned impacts. International demand for biofuels is already surpassing supply in key countries like Malaysia and Brazil, giving an important push to the expansion of destructive crops like oil palm and sugar cane. Initiatives to produce these monocultures 'Äúresponsibly'Äù are rejected by many NGOs and social movements in the production countries themselves, who have emphasized that the above-mentioned negative social and environmental impacts are inherent to the large-scale production of monocultures. There is nothing green or sustainable to imported or exported biofuel. Instead
Re: [Biofuel] Running on Hype - The Real Scoop on Biofuels
CORN AND SOY ARE HORRIBLE STOCK!!! game, set, match, period, end-of-story! whyohwhy cant anyone but us realize that? i cant stand the ignorance involved here. Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 4:44 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Running on Hype - The Real Scoop on Biofuels Running on Hype The Real Scoop on Biofuels By BRIAN TOKAR CounterPunch, November 1 2006 http://www.counterpunch.org/tokar11012006.html You can hardly open up a major newspaper or national magazine these days without encountering the latest hype about biofuels, and how they're going to save oil, reduce pollution and prevent climate change. Bill Gates, Sun Microsystems' Vinod Khosla, and other major venture capitalists are investing millions in new biofuel production, whether in the form of ethanol, mainly derived from corn in the US today, or biodiesel, mainly from soybeans and canola seed. It's literally a modern day gold rush, as described by the New York Times, paraphrasing the chief executive of Cargill, one of the main benefactors of increased subsidies to agribusiness and tax credits to refiners for the purpose of encouraging biofuel production. The Times reported earlier this year that some 40 new ethanol plants are currently under construction in the US, aiming toward a 30 percent increase in domestic production. Archer Daniels Midland, the company that first sold the idea of corn-derived ethanol as an auto fuel to Congress in the late 1970s, has doubled its stock price and profits over the last two years. ADM currently controls a quarter of US ethanol fuel production, and recently hired a former Chevron executive as its CEO. Several well-respected analysts have raised serious concerns about this rapid diversion of food crops toward the production of fuel for automobiles. WorldWatch Institute founder Lester Brown, long concerned about the sustainability of world food supplies, says that fuel producers are already competing with food processors in the world's grain markets. Cars, not people, will claim most of the increase in grain production this year, reports Brown, a serious concern in a world where the grain required to make enough ethanol to fill an SUV tank is enough to feed a person for a whole year. Others have dismissed the ethanol gold rush as nothing more than the subsidized burning of food to run automobiles. The biofuel rush is having a significant impact worldwide as well. Brazil, often touted as the the most impressive biofuel success story, is using half its annual sugarcane crop to provide 40 percent of its auto fuel, while increasing deforestation to grow more sugarcane and soybeans. Malaysian and Indonesian rainforests are being bulldozed for oil palm plantations-threatening endangered orangutans, rhinos, tigers and countless other species-in order to serve at the booming European market for biodiesel. Are these reasonable tradeoffs for a troubled planet, or merely another corporate push for profits? Two new studies, both released this past summer, aim to document the full consequences of the new biofuel economy and realistically assess its impact on fuel use, greenhouse gases and agricultural lands. One study, originating from the University of Minnesota, is moderately hopeful in the first two areas, but offers a strong caution about land use. The other, from Cornell University and UC Berkeley, concludes that every domestic biofuel source shy; the ones currently in use as well as those under development shy; produces less energy than is consumed in growing and processing the crops. The Minnesota researchers attempted a full lifecycle analysis of the production of ethanol from corn and biodiesel from soy. They documented the energy costs of fuel production, pesticide use, transportation, and other key factors, and also accounted for the energy equivalent of soy and corn byproducts that remain for other uses after the fuel is extracted. Their paper, published in the July 25th edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, concluded that ethanol production offers a modest net energy gain of 25%, resulting in 12% less greenhouse gases than an equivalent amount of gasoline. The numbers for biodiesel are more promising, with a 93% net energy gain and a 41% reduction in greenhouse gases. The researchers cautioned, however, that these figures do not account for the significant environmental damage from increased acreages of these crops, including the impacts of pesticides, nitrate runoff into water supplies, nor the increased demand on water, as energy crops like corn and soy begin to displace more drought tolerant crops such as wheat in several Midwestern states. The most serious impact, though, is on land use. The Minnesota paper reports that in 2005, 14% of the US corn harvest
Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence)
(I know, I'm a firm believer in physical reality, and thats where I get in trouble with those who accept supernatural explanations of natural phenomena.) -That's probably because some people are open-minded. By saying impossible, we limit our perception on things and deny any other possibilities. Let's face it, we dont know much about this world; What we see, it's limited to our perception. Ages ago, walking on the moon = impossible! but now = oh okay, big deal. Question: What's considered physical reality? Where's the limit? Good day, Rick From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 12:24:26 -0500 bob allen wrote: Joe Street wrote: ' Hey Bob, where you goin with that gun in yer hand'...careful there Bob, you might shoot yourself in the foot. If you are saying that there is NOTHING in homeopathic products ( and repeating it 3 times) ( is that like tapping the heels of your shoes three times?.lol) well then how can NOTHING do SOMETHING? Harm or otherwise? the mere expectation of an outcome can bring on the outcome. So you are admitting that the mind is a part of reality and not just a part but a part which has substantial power to effect an outcome. But where is the evidence of the mind? I don't know of any scientific experiment which has detected it. You can cross section any lobe of my brain and I guarantee you will not find any trace of my mind. It would seem then from a scientific, hard evidence perspective that the mind does not have a physical reality. And yet it has a very real power to affect reality. Hmm. You said in a previous post: I know, I'm a firm believer in physical reality, and thats where I get in trouble with those who accept supernatural explanations of natural phenomena. But you believe the placebo effect is real. I think that's called a circular argument isn't it? Joe that is what the placebo effect is all about, and why it is necessary to do double blind , placebo controlled testing for efficacy. What ever effect a homeopathic nostrum does must be occurring via a placebo effect, as it can't be due to the chemical which is no longer there. Joe bob allen wrote: Kirk McLoren wrote: In many trials the placebo is as profound as the pharmaceutical and with no adverse side effects/toxicology. checkout the nocebo effect numerous examples of harm. In many instances the act of doing something with an expectation produces the desired effect. At least the homeopathic agent isnt toxic. actually it can be. see above More than can be said of many pharma nostrums. Kirk */bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED]/* wrote: D. Mindock wrote: Bob, what you don't understand, you automatically do your quackwatch routine. Asking you to try to go beyond your built-in wall of prejudices is silly of me to ask of you. So I won't. Don't ask for references or science. I think this comment clearly dilineates the differences in our positions. I seek rational explanations and reproducable evidence and you accept testimony. You have your thoughts on things and that is the final word for you. Science is only a method, a tool, agreeed to get something believed to have a chance of being true to be verified. It doesn't explain the leap of intuition that creates the hypothesis in the first place. Homeopathy has been used successfully for quite some time. no it hasn't. maybe a placeobo effect has worked but that is not homeopathy. That science cannot explain it does not mean it is not valid. so explain it to me. How does something which is not there, do something? Science is merely a method. agreed Where did the hypothesis come from? Explain that. who cares where it came from? if it is nonsense it is nonsense. But if you really want to know it came from a guy called Hahnemann, who apparently had a very confused sense of cause and effect, and that silliness has persisted to this day. So D if you really believe this works , shouldn't the hypothesis be testable? Where is the data.? Peace and light, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: bob allen To: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Closed-Mindedness(WasHypnosisasAnesthesiaWasTestimonials asEvidence) Sorry but I have to jump in here with the mention of homeopathy. This is the silliest most counter-intuitive medical mubo-jumbo on the planet. there is zero valid support for the idea that something which causes a symptom at high doses (what ever that means) is cured by something at extremely low doses. And I mean
Re: [Biofuel] A heat Engine for the house.
I'm used to heating with wood anyways, so a wood gasifier is the first thing that comes to mind. An old car engine with nothing to lose and the capacity to have it's output at peak torque (peak efficiency) halved would be just about the thing for any DIY:er. In box with noise insulation and 3 times the sound surpression on the exhaust. The wood gasifier produces a lot of heat itself, it'd make sense to make use of it. Some sort of auto-feed hopper would be great, and with space being less of a factor with startionary power production than in trasnport it's possible. The main issue here is safety. The engine would run on carbon monoxide, although the noise of the whole system would most likely condem it to the outdoors anyways. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
Hi Mary Lynn...thanks for your twoofferings. I'd like to know how you feel about something said in many fewer words. What you offer is in itself wonderful and life affirming. I know for my feeble brain, however, I need something stated in just a few words. D. Mindock signs his posts with "Peace and Light" and he's also offered something along those lines, which is for me more what I had in mind when I suggested that we all be saying the same prayer. I've suggested a slight change: "In peace and light I journey through forever." You can read the complete idea in my post to D. How do you feel about this? Thanks again for your input. Mike DuPree PS I feel a bit embarrassed discussing a prayer, given my recent bout of negative criticism towards Bob. But as my wife puts it, that's the "light" part of the prayer...lol. I like that. Sometimes a two by four on the side of the head works...sometimes it doesn't. Ah well... - Original Message - From: "Marylynn Schmidt" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Here's my contribution .. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: "MK DuPree" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak ChopraDate: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 17:05:53 -0600Hi D...I really appreciate reading this...but you know what's coming: "Show me the data!" Aside from that, whatever might happen to society as a whole as a result of many individuals imagining a better world, what happens to the individual in the process of doing so is what matters most. Along these lines, I was wondering: what if the List adopted a prayer, something simple, just a few words, that each of us might remember and recite to ourselves at the same time each day. Not that it would be the same time for everyone, but that each one would imagine and recite it at the same time day each day. The List is global, so it is conceivable that at any given moment or during any given hour, the prayer would be spoken, the "imaginal cells" appearing. I have no idea what we might all say, but it seems the same words, certainly the same idea, being imagined and spoken 24 hours a day, can't do anything but be helpful, if not ultimately for all the peoples of the planet and of course the planet, certainly for the individuals participating in such a thing, each of them knowing they were being joined by so many others in doing so. What do you think? What do members of the List think? Mike DuPree- Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra http://www.thecupoftea.co.uk/newsletter/deepak.html Imagining a new state for humanity: the metaphor of imaginal cells Transformation sometimes can be drastic. There is no better example in nature to reflect this, than metamorphosis. This is exemplified best in the transformation of a caterpillar into a butterfly - an incredible transformation in functionality, appearance, organization of components, and purpose - that transforms a gross-looking voracious, clumsy crawling worm, into a subtle, gracious, flying creature of beauty. Biologists tell us that in the tissue of a caterpillar there are embedded cells that they call imaginal cells. They resonate at a different frequency. They are so totally different from the other caterpillar cells, that the immune system of the worm thinks they are enemies and tries to destroy them. But the new imaginal cells continue to appear, more and more of them! Eventually the caterpillar's immune system cannot destroy them fast enough, and they become stronger, they connect, and connect, until they form a critical mass that realizes that their mission is to bring about the amazing birth of a butterfly out of the voracious caterpillar! In 1969 Margaret Mead said: "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has". I firmly believe along with many others, that there is an evolutionary effervescence within the tissues of the established society of today. That in spite of the prevailing clamor of fear, greed, over-consumption, and violence, expressed through the tissues of society, there is a coming together of the imaginal cells who are visioning a different world, a transformation, a metamorphosis. Uruguayan poet Mario Benedetti wrote "What
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
D...I'd like to add a word, a word you like to use when signing off on apost, and change a preposition: "In peace and light I journeythrough forever." Mary Lynn had a good idea for a prayer too, but for everyday, it seems just a few words would be most helpful. I'll respond same to her. I've changed the preposition to acknowledgewhat I perceiveis the process within which we are all being, that we are not going somewhere, but that we are already there, always have been, and always will be. Along these lines I'd like to note the words of Lennon's tune, "Imagine," specifically, "Living for today." The preposition here also needs to be changed to "in."In fact, I believe it is the use of the first,seemingly insignificant, preposition thatdetoured a lot of folks in the time around when Lennon penned his tune and even today fromrealizing thepotential of not just what we might imagine, but what we might be.By living "for" today ratherthan "in" today, we run the riskof missing the potential of today, of this very moment, because we tend to be too focused on what we want rather than what there is. Consequently, when we live "for" today, all too often we respond inappropriately to what is "in" today, "in" this moment. Sounds like splitting hairs and maybe it is, but there is power in our words, great power, and we need to choose them carefully...or be silent...imho. So I suggest, "In peace and light I journey through forever." I'm wondering how others on the List might feel about this and if we can hear from others. Can we get agreement on the wording of the prayer? "In peace and light I journeythrough forever." It seems to me to be a very complete prayer, a state of relaxed readiness tosee what is, whatever it may be, whether or not there is data to "prove" it, and respond appropriately. Can we hear from others?? What are your offerings? What else might we all say together at each one's self-appointed time on the planet? Whatever we choose, for nowI'm already saying mine daily at 7amCST, USA. Hope others around the globe will join us. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "D. Mindock" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 7:46 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Mike, I am glad you liked the article. We need to be agents of change, to transform the planet into one where peace and caring prevail. As individuals we need to become peaceful within ourselves, then we can radiate peace everywhere. Prayer and continous positive affirmations can help rewire ourselves to a peaceful state. WRT a standard prayer for the list, how about: In peace I journey to forever. Visioning peace becoming peace, individually, is a milestone on the way. We do each create reality for ourselves. Imagining this world as one where peace exists in each individual and between countries should make it happen, to become real for each of us; the idea here is that when a critical number of people are at peace internally then the rest will be entrained and switch over easily. So we must become peace so that we can project it. We are electrical creatures. People like Dubya and Cheney are not at peace within themselves, imo. That is why it is so easy for them to advocate war and attack the environment. They see scarcity where there is abundance.But they could not do the tragic things they do without lots of like-minded people. So we imaginers have to get busy. John Lennon's Imagine seems to be appropriate here. Imagine there's no heaven It's easy if you try No hell below us Above us only sky Imagine all the people Living for today... Imagine there's no countries It isn't hard to do Nothing to kill or die for And no religion too Imagine all the people Living life in peace... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will be as one Imagine no possessions I wonder if you can No need for greed or hunger A brotherhood of man Imagine all the people Sharing all the world... You may say I'm a dreamer But I'm not the only one I hope someday you'll join us And the world will live as one Namasté Peace to all, D. Mindock - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 5:05 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Hi D...I really appreciate reading this...but you know what's coming: "Show me the data!" Aside from that, whatever might happen to society as a whole as a result of many individuals imagining a better world, what happens to the individual in the process of doing so is what matters most. Along these lines, I was wondering: what if the List adopted a prayer, something simple, just a few words, that each of us might remember and recite to ourselves at the same time each day. Not that it would be the same time for everyone, but that each
Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc.
You never know Jason until you know. Don't know how you feel about approaching them personally, but I'd find out who the head honcho is and just ask...won't do any good talking with the secretary...gawd love 'em, we need 'em, etc etc...butknowing the head honcho has the info and what he or she says is all that matters. If nothing else, you will know that they know and make them responsible forthis information. Again, if you decide to do this, please share your experience. Thanks. Mike DuPree PS If this is difficult for you, and your mother-in-law lives in the Kansas City area, I might consider showing up and asking, but I'd need more info from you and maybe ask you to do some preliminary fact finding. Let me know. - Original Message - From: "Jason Katie" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. ...no... do you suppose they never thought of it? it seemed kind of a no-brainer to me... Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "MK DuPree" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 1:40 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. Jason...have you talked with the owners/managers about doing what you're saying? curious to hear their response. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "Jason Katie" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc.i have similar problems at home. there is a landfill not far from my motherinlaw's house and they have a decent gas collecting system, but they torch it all off at a big tower in the southern end of the facility. the 'fill is no longer used, but they could be selling electricity to the grid, which-in that area- is subject to blackouts and such during bad weather. its stupid for them to waste it... Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "John P Gochoco" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 11:21 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. Can someone show me a string of emails...or something showing any discussion regarding the production and use of Methane in the US? I pass by huge poultry's and cow and pig farms almost everyday and not one of them ever even thought of the potentials. They all seem to be sold on the idea of just using manure for fertilizer. Maybe I'm wrong...somebody help me!!! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.22/512 - Release Date: 11/1/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.22/512 - Release Date: 11/1/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.22/512 - Release Date: 11/1/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.23/513 - Release Date: 11/2/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
Hi Mike .. First, let me let you know that I am beyond joy in just the fact that this group is actually discussing changing the world by envisioning peace and light and I would love both yours and Ds permission to share this simple prayer, affirmation, with some of my other groups and enlist their aid in spreading this vision. It is time for the 101st Monkey to step forth. As it has been said so beautifully .. In peace and light I journey through forever .. Thank you all Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 16:57:04 -0600 Hi Mary Lynn...thanks for your two offerings. I'd like to know how you feel about something said in many fewer words. What you offer is in itself wonderful and life affirming. I know for my feeble brain, however, I need something stated in just a few words. D. Mindock signs his posts with Peace and Light and he's also offered something along those lines, which is for me more what I had in mind when I suggested that we all be saying the same prayer. I've suggested a slight change: In peace and light I journey through forever. You can read the complete idea in my post to D. How do you feel about this? Thanks again for your input. Mike DuPree PS I feel a bit embarrassed discussing a prayer, given my recent bout of negative criticism towards Bob. But as my wife puts it, that's the light part of the prayer...lol. I like that. Sometimes a two by four on the side of the head works...sometimes it doesn't. Ah well... - Original Message - From: Marylynn Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Here's my contribution .. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 17:05:53 -0600 Hi D...I really appreciate reading this...but you know what's coming: Show me the data! Aside from that, whatever might happen to society as a whole as a result of many individuals imagining a better world, what happens to the individual in the process of doing so is what matters most. Along these lines, I was wondering: what if the List adopted a prayer, something simple, just a few words, that each of us might remember and recite to ourselves at the same time each day. Not that it would be the same time for everyone, but that each one would imagine and recite it at the same time day each day. The List is global, so it is conceivable that at any given moment or during any given hour, the prayer would be spoken, the imaginal cells appearing. I have no idea what we might all say, but it seems the same words, certainly the same idea, being imagined and spoken 24 hours a day, can't do anything but be helpful, if not ultimately for all the peoples of the planet and of course the planet, certainly for the individuals participating in such a thing, each of them knowing they were being joined by so many others in doing so. What do you think? What do members of the List think? Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: Undisclosed-Recipient:; Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:52 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra http://www.thecupoftea.co.uk/newsletter/deepak.html Imagining a new state for humanity: the metaphor of imaginal cells Transformation sometimes can be drastic. There is no better example in nature to reflect this, than metamorphosis. This is exemplified best in the transformation of a caterpillar into a butterfly - an incredible transformation in functionality, appearance, organization of components, and purpose - that transforms a gross-looking voracious, clumsy crawling worm, into a subtle, gracious, flying creature of beauty. Biologists tell us that in the tissue of a caterpillar there are embedded
Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc.
i have no problems at all asking those folks about it, and you are welcome to come along for the show, but i have to warn you- my motherinlaw lives five hours northeast of KC... but yes, i will let everyone know (and maybe find myselfinstallinga genset in the local dump ;). )any suggestions if they go for it? i might be able to make aliving out of it andmove backHOME for a change. JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. You never know Jason until you know. Don't know how you feel about approaching them personally, but I'd find out who the head honcho is and just ask...won't do any good talking with the secretary...gawd love 'em, we need 'em, etc etc...butknowing the head honcho has the info and what he or she says is all that matters. If nothing else, you will know that they know and make them responsible forthis information. Again, if you decide to do this, please share your experience. Thanks. Mike DuPree PS If this is difficult for you, and your mother-in-law lives in the Kansas City area, I might consider showing up and asking, but I'd need more info from you and maybe ask you to do some preliminary fact finding. Let me know. - Original Message - From: "Jason Katie" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. ...no... do you suppose they never thought of it? it seemed kind of a no-brainer to me... Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "MK DuPree" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 1:40 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. Jason...have you talked with the owners/managers about doing what you're saying? curious to hear their response. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "Jason Katie" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc.i have similar problems at home. there is a landfill not far from my motherinlaw's house and they have a decent gas collecting system, but they torch it all off at a big tower in the southern end of the facility. the 'fill is no longer used, but they could be selling electricity to the grid, which-in that area- is subject to blackouts and such during bad weather. its stupid for them to waste it... Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "John P Gochoco" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 11:21 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. Can someone show me a string of emails...or something showing any discussion regarding the production and use of Methane in the US? I pass by huge poultry's and cow and pig farms almost everyday and not one of them ever even thought of the potentials. They all seem to be sold on the idea of just using manure for fertilizer. Maybe I'm wrong...somebody help me!!! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.22/512 - Release Date: 11/1/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.22/512 - Release Date: 11/1/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by
Re: [Biofuel] A heat Engine for the house.
I was thinking of a small Diesel that ran on Biodiesel pre heated heated water for a gas boiler and ran when Power was needed during the day. Automation would be a great thing here. Jim From: Arttu Aula [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A heat Engine for the house. Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 19:36:48 +0200 I'm used to heating with wood anyways, so a wood gasifier is the first thing that comes to mind. An old car engine with nothing to lose and the capacity to have it's output at peak torque (peak efficiency) halved would be just about the thing for any DIY:er. In box with noise insulation and 3 times the sound surpression on the exhaust. The wood gasifier produces a lot of heat itself, it'd make sense to make use of it. Some sort of auto-feed hopper would be great, and with space being less of a factor with startionary power production than in trasnport it's possible. The main issue here is safety. The engine would run on carbon monoxide, although the noise of the whole system would most likely condem it to the outdoors anyways. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc.
Jason...I'd LOVE to come along. If you're okay with it, I can get myself to your place and we can go from there. Because of the distance, perhaps a preliminary phone call would be appropriate, at least to find out who is the decision maker. I would even go one step, maybe several steps, further. This situation could be a real boon to the landfill. But ultimatelythis boonneeds to be presented in the simplest terms, ie the bottom line...what kind of money is the landfill looking at...both to install the necessary equipment and return on investment (and how long before return of initial investment). This will requirefinding out about the landfill, ie pounds of trash per day etc, whatever it is you have in mind that might be used to transform into energy sold back to the grid. Also, what hoops will the landfill have to go through to get the utility to have to pay them for the extra energy. Are you (we?) proposing to take care of these hoops? Got some homework to do. I'd love to participate. Could be the beginning of something totally awesome in the immediate vicinity and then beyond. What do you think? Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Jason Katie To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. i have no problems at all asking those folks about it, and you are welcome to come along for the show, but i have to warn you- my motherinlaw lives five hours northeast of KC... but yes, i will let everyone know (and maybe find myselfinstallinga genset in the local dump ;). )any suggestions if they go for it? i might be able to make aliving out of it andmove backHOME for a change. JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. You never know Jason until you know. Don't know how you feel about approaching them personally, but I'd find out who the head honcho is and just ask...won't do any good talking with the secretary...gawd love 'em, we need 'em, etc etc...butknowing the head honcho has the info and what he or she says is all that matters. If nothing else, you will know that they know and make them responsible forthis information. Again, if you decide to do this, please share your experience. Thanks. Mike DuPree PS If this is difficult for you, and your mother-in-law lives in the Kansas City area, I might consider showing up and asking, but I'd need more info from you and maybe ask you to do some preliminary fact finding. Let me know. - Original Message - From: "Jason Katie" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. ...no... do you suppose they never thought of it? it seemed kind of a no-brainer to me... Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "MK DuPree" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 1:40 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. Jason...have you talked with the owners/managers about doing what you're saying? curious to hear their response. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "Jason Katie" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc.i have similar problems at home. there is a landfill not far from my motherinlaw's house and they have a decent gas collecting system, but they torch it all off at a big tower in the southern end of the facility. the 'fill is no longer used, but they could be selling electricity to the grid, which-in that area- is subject to blackouts and such during bad weather. its stupid for them to waste it... Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "John P Gochoco" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2006 11:21 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. Can someone show me a string of emails...or something showing any discussion regarding the production and use of Methane in the US? I pass by huge poultry's and cow and pig farms almost everyday and not one of them ever even thought of the potentials. They all seem to be sold on the idea of just using manure for fertilizer. Maybe I'm wrong...somebody help me!!! ___
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
Mary Lynn...glad to be a part of it.For myself, yes, please, share with whomever. I would suggest, however, that "what we are sa-a-a-y-ing" (Lennon/Ono, "Give Peace A Chance) is first and foremost for each of us individually. If the world changes as a result, wonderful...butter on the bread. I'm suggesting such because I've known too many folks who directed their energies outwardly, only to miss the mark for themselves personally and ultimately outwardly too, especially their immediately outwardly, ie their own families and friends...and "Bobs." The river is only as deep as each of us experience it personally. I've got 7am CST, USA, covered: "In peace and light I journey through forever." Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "Marylynn Schmidt" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Hi Mike .. First, let me let you know that I am beyond joy in just the fact that this group is actually discussing changing the world by envisioning peace and light and I would love both yours and Ds permission to share this simple prayer, affirmation, with some of my other groups and enlist their aid in spreading this vision. It is time for the 101st Monkey to step forth. As it has been said so beautifully .. In peace and light I journey through forever .. Thank you all Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: "MK DuPree" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak ChopraDate: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 16:57:04 -0600Hi Mary Lynn...thanks for your two offerings. I'd like to know how you feel about something said in many fewer words. What you offer is in itself wonderful and life affirming. I know for my feeble brain, however, I need something stated in just a few words. D. Mindock signs his posts with "Peace and Light" and he's also offered something along those lines, which is for me more what I had in mind when I suggested that we all be saying the same prayer. I've suggested a slight change: "In peace and light I journey through forever." You can read the complete idea in my post to D. How do you feel about this? Thanks again for your input. Mike DuPree PS I feel a bit embarrassed discussing a prayer, given my recent bout of negative criticism towards Bob. But as my wife puts it, that's the "light" part of the prayer...lol. I like that. Sometimes a two by four on the side of the head works...sometimes it doesn't. Ah well...- Original Message -From: "Marylynn Schmidt" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:38 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Here's my contribution .. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: "MK DuPree" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 17:05:53 -0600 Hi D...I really appreciate reading this...but you know what's coming: "Show me the data!" Aside from that, whatever might happen to society as a whole as a result of many individuals imagining a better world, what happens to the individual in the process of doing so is what matters most. Along these lines, I was wondering: what if the List adopted a prayer, something simple, just a few words, that each of us might remember and recite to ourselves at the same time each day. Not that it would be the same time for everyone, but that each one would imagine and recite it at the same time day each day. The List is global, so it is conceivable that at any given moment or during any given hour, the prayer would be spoken, the "imaginal cells" appearing. I have no idea what we might all say, but it seems the same words, certainly the same idea, being imagined and spoken 24 hours a day, can't do anything but be helpful, if not ultimately for all the peoples of the planet and of course the planet, certainly for the individuals participating in such a thing, each of them knowing they were being joined by so many others in doing
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
My outlook is a bit different .. I can't give you something I don't have. If I'm envisioning peace and light then it must come through and from within me. .. sort of like Reiki .. I'm a channel and must only allow the universal energy to flow through .. actually peace and light has a very nice warm flowing feel to it. I'll take 4:00PM New Jersey time. In peace and light I journey through forever Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:05:01 -0600 Mary Lynn...glad to be a part of it. For myself, yes, please, share with whomever. I would suggest, however, that what we are sa-a-a-y-ing (Lennon/Ono, Give Peace A Chance) is first and foremost for each of us individually. If the world changes as a result, wonderful...butter on the bread. I'm suggesting such because I've known too many folks who directed their energies outwardly, only to miss the mark for themselves personally and ultimately outwardly too, especially their immediately outwardly, ie their own families and friends...and Bobs. The river is only as deep as each of us experience it personally. I've got 7am CST, USA, covered: In peace and light I journey through forever. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Marylynn Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:36 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Hi Mike .. First, let me let you know that I am beyond joy in just the fact that this group is actually discussing changing the world by envisioning peace and light and I would love both yours and Ds permission to share this simple prayer, affirmation, with some of my other groups and enlist their aid in spreading this vision. It is time for the 101st Monkey to step forth. As it has been said so beautifully .. In peace and light I journey through forever .. Thank you all Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 16:57:04 -0600 Hi Mary Lynn...thanks for your two offerings. I'd like to know how you feel about something said in many fewer words. What you offer is in itself wonderful and life affirming. I know for my feeble brain, however, I need something stated in just a few words. D. Mindock signs his posts with Peace and Light and he's also offered something along those lines, which is for me more what I had in mind when I suggested that we all be saying the same prayer. I've suggested a slight change: In peace and light I journey through forever. You can read the complete idea in my post to D. How do you feel about this? Thanks again for your input. Mike DuPree PS I feel a bit embarrassed discussing a prayer, given my recent bout of negative criticism towards Bob. But as my wife puts it, that's the light part of the prayer...lol. I like that. Sometimes a two by four on the side of the head works...sometimes it doesn't. Ah well... - Original Message - From: Marylynn Schmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Here's my contribution .. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: MK DuPree [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 17:05:53 -0600 Hi D...I really appreciate reading this...but you
Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra
Hi Mary Lynn...I totally agree: "I can't give you something I don't have."Thank you for clarifying. How many time zones are there on the planet? Two down...how many more to go? "In peace and light I journey through forever." MD - Original Message - From: "Marylynn Schmidt" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra My outlook is a bit different .. I can't give you something I don't have. If I'm envisioning peace and light then it must come through and from within me. .. sort of like Reiki .. I'm a channel and must only allow the universal energy to flow through .. actually peace and light has a very nice warm flowing feel to it. I'll take 4:00PM New Jersey time. In peace and light I journey through forever Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: "MK DuPree" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak ChopraDate: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:05:01 -0600Mary Lynn...glad to be a part of it. For myself, yes, please, share with whomever. I would suggest, however, that "what we are sa-a-a-y-ing" (Lennon/Ono, "Give Peace A Chance) is first and foremost for each of us individually. If the world changes as a result, wonderful...butter on the bread. I'm suggesting such because I've known too many folks who directed their energies outwardly, only to miss the mark for themselves personally and ultimately outwardly too, especially their immediately outwardly, ie their own families and friends...and "Bobs." The river is only as deep as each of us experience it personally. I've got 7am CST, USA, covered: "In peace and light I journey through forever." Mike DuPree- Original Message -From: "Marylynn Schmidt" [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:36 PMSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Hi Mike .. First, let me let you know that I am beyond joy in just the fact that this group is actually discussing changing the world by envisioning peace and light and I would love both yours and Ds permission to share this simple prayer, affirmation, with some of my other groups and enlist their aid in spreading this vision. It is time for the 101st Monkey to step forth. As it has been said so beautifully .. In peace and light I journey through forever .. Thank you all Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition . Homeopathy . Polarity . The Animal Connection Healing Modalities http://members.tripod.com/~MLSchmidt/ http://allcreatureconnections.org From: "MK DuPree" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 16:57:04 -0600 Hi Mary Lynn...thanks for your two offerings. I'd like to know how you feel about something said in many fewer words. What you offer is in itself wonderful and life affirming. I know for my feeble brain, however, I need something stated in just a few words. D. Mindock signs his posts with "Peace and Light" and he's also offered something along those lines, which is for me more what I had in mind when I suggested that we all be saying the same prayer. I've suggested a slight change: "In peace and light I journey through forever." You can read the complete idea in my post to D. How do you feel about this? Thanks again for your input. Mike DuPree PS I feel a bit embarrassed discussing a prayer, given my recent bout of negative criticism towards Bob. But as my wife puts it, that's the "light" part of the prayer...lol. I like that. Sometimes a two by four on the side of the head works...sometimes it doesn't. Ah well... - Original Message - From: "Marylynn Schmidt" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 8:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Imaginal Cells by Deepak Chopra Here's my contribution .. Mary Lynn Rev. Mary Lynn Schmidt, Ordained Minister ONE SPIRIT ONE HEART TTouch . Reiki . Pet Loss Grief Counseling . Animal Behavior Modification . Shamanic Spiritual Travel . Behavior Problems . Psionic Energy Practitioner . Radionics . Herbs . Dowsing . Nutrition .
Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc.
ive been doing some looking on ESG Watts, and im not so sure we could actually accomplish anything. apparently james watts has been sued in three counties over the last twelve yearsand is presently in jail for contempt of court after refusing to pay over one million in fines for EPA violations. i doubt he would be willing to put forth the effort, and i HIGHLY doubt he would be trustworthy enough to hold up his end of any contract... http://www.illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/pressroom/2006_06/20060623.html JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. Jason...I'd LOVE to come along. If you're okay with it, I can get myself to your place and we can go from there. Because of the distance, perhaps a preliminary phone call would be appropriate, at least to find out who is the decision maker. I would even go one step, maybe several steps, further. This situation could be a real boon to the landfill. But ultimatelythis boonneeds to be presented in the simplest terms, ie the bottom line...what kind of money is the landfill looking at...both to install the necessary equipment and return on investment (and how long before return of initial investment). This will requirefinding out about the landfill, ie pounds of trash per day etc, whatever it is you have in mind that might be used to transform into energy sold back to the grid. Also, what hoops will the landfill have to go through to get the utility to have to pay them for the extra energy. Are you (we?) proposing to take care of these hoops? Got some homework to do. I'd love to participate. Could be the beginning of something totally awesome in the immediate vicinity and then beyond. What do you think? Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Jason Katie To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. i have no problems at all asking those folks about it, and you are welcome to come along for the show, but i have to warn you- my motherinlaw lives five hours northeast of KC... but yes, i will let everyone know (and maybe find myselfinstallinga genset in the local dump ;). )any suggestions if they go for it? i might be able to make aliving out of it andmove backHOME for a change. JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. You never know Jason until you know. Don't know how you feel about approaching them personally, but I'd find out who the head honcho is and just ask...won't do any good talking with the secretary...gawd love 'em, we need 'em, etc etc...butknowing the head honcho has the info and what he or she says is all that matters. If nothing else, you will know that they know and make them responsible forthis information. Again, if you decide to do this, please share your experience. Thanks. Mike DuPree PS If this is difficult for you, and your mother-in-law lives in the Kansas City area, I might consider showing up and asking, but I'd need more info from you and maybe ask you to do some preliminary fact finding. Let me know. - Original Message - From: "Jason Katie" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. ...no... do you suppose they never thought of it? it seemed kind of a no-brainer to me... Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "MK DuPree" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 1:40 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. Jason...have you talked with the owners/managers about doing what you're saying? curious to hear their response. Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: "Jason Katie" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc.i have similar problems at home. there is a landfill not far from my motherinlaw's house and they have a decent gas collecting system, but they torch it all off at a big tower in the southern end of the facility.
Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc.
very interesting...ok...so you've identified a low priority prospect...save the bums for a rainy day. What about closer to home? I'm willing to make calls on whomever, Jason. Might help to have info on what it would take for a landfill to sell their energy back to the grid. I'm not clear on the equipment and process you have in mind for converting to energy. If you're interested, I'd like to learn more. Then begin prospecting. I kind of know a son of Hamm Quarries here in Lawrence. My understanding is that Lawrence contracts with Hamm to dump there. If I had a better understanding of the energy paperwork and process for converting, I'd love to give Gary a call and go from there. But that's just one. How many are there within a hundred miles of and including Kansas City? What do you think? Mike - Original Message - From: Jason Katie To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. ive been doing some looking on ESG Watts, and im not so sure we could actually accomplish anything. apparently james watts has been sued in three counties over the last twelve yearsand is presently in jail for contempt of court after refusing to pay over one million in fines for EPA violations. i doubt he would be willing to put forth the effort, and i HIGHLY doubt he would be trustworthy enough to hold up his end of any contract... http://www.illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/pressroom/2006_06/20060623.html JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. Jason...I'd LOVE to come along. If you're okay with it, I can get myself to your place and we can go from there. Because of the distance, perhaps a preliminary phone call would be appropriate, at least to find out who is the decision maker. I would even go one step, maybe several steps, further. This situation could be a real boon to the landfill. But ultimatelythis boonneeds to be presented in the simplest terms, ie the bottom line...what kind of money is the landfill looking at...both to install the necessary equipment and return on investment (and how long before return of initial investment). This will requirefinding out about the landfill, ie pounds of trash per day etc, whatever it is you have in mind that might be used to transform into energy sold back to the grid. Also, what hoops will the landfill have to go through to get the utility to have to pay them for the extra energy. Are you (we?) proposing to take care of these hoops? Got some homework to do. I'd love to participate. Could be the beginning of something totally awesome in the immediate vicinity and then beyond. What do you think? Mike DuPree - Original Message - From: Jason Katie To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. i have no problems at all asking those folks about it, and you are welcome to come along for the show, but i have to warn you- my motherinlaw lives five hours northeast of KC... but yes, i will let everyone know (and maybe find myselfinstallinga genset in the local dump ;). )any suggestions if they go for it? i might be able to make aliving out of it andmove backHOME for a change. JasonICQ#: 154998177MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 5:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bio-Gas...i.e. Methane...Marsh Gas...etc. You never know Jason until you know. Don't know how you feel about approaching them personally, but I'd find out who the head honcho is and just ask...won't do any good talking with the secretary...gawd love 'em, we need 'em, etc etc...butknowing the head honcho has the info and what he or she says is all that matters. If nothing else, you will know that they know and make them responsible forthis information. Again, if you decide to do this, please share your experience. Thanks. Mike DuPree PS If this is difficult for you, and your mother-in-law lives in the Kansas City area, I might consider showing up and asking, but I'd need more info from you and maybe ask you to do some preliminary fact finding. Let me know. - Original Message -
Re: [Biofuel] Ooil Plants suited for Eastern Montana
Jim: Well, sugar works well for ethanol and if the celulosic (?sp) enzymes are ever developed, the residual pulp would work also. There has been talk of an ethanol plant in the past but I, however, vote for a rummery. That way, on a bad day, I could walk across the street and sample the merchandise. Methanol is already scarce. A report from the chemical supplier stated that two major world suppliers had declared Force Majure on their contracts as of a month or two ago. The price has gone up about $1.00 USD/gal here. A question for the JTF group: A farmer friend says that you cannot use rape as a rotation crop with sugar beets since the rape plant is a host organism for the Beet Root Nematode. Any thoughts? - Original Message - From: JAMES PHELPS To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ooil Plants suited for Eastern Montana Paul, Excellent question! I also see a good combination I wonder if beets would be a good Ethanol crop? nice combo if methanol became scarce. Jim - Original Message - From: PAUL MILLER To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ooil Plants suited for Eastern Montana How about the camolina that is being touted by the governor? Also, what is a good oil seed rotation crop for sugar beets? I understand that rape is not. Paul - Original Message - From: JAMES PHELPS To: biofuel Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2006 7:51 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Ooil Plants suited for Eastern Montana Can any one tell me what the best oil plants would be for an area that is home to dry land wheat and winter wheat? I am particularly interested in a seed type that is not Owned by large corporate agriculture and can be raised for seed as well as oil. Thanks Jim___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options
Now that is a left field idea. They would surely make the wood to the correct size. I did no think they put off that much methane. I know they put off naptha. The time to produce workable material would be long, or need a very large setup. Time I can manage over summer, space I have little of. I wonder how well the pellets would soak up WVO/Glycerin? I could use far less if they soaked up enough to burn hotter. That makes me wonder if the auger pipe is hot enough to help wick the fire down into the hopper? Its surely worth a few tests and trials. What would be better as far as stability in a hot (150F) tube, WVO or glycerin? Jeromie Joe Street wrote: Hey Jeromie; Look into termites. Yeah I'm not joshin you. Feed termites with the wood and bind the dust they make with the glycerin. If you put the termite pile in a sealed container then you can harvest the methane the termites produce and use it as fuel as well ;) Joe Jeromie Reeves wrote: Dave: Nice link, you solved one of the issue, what to use as a binder. Jason: That is a very interesting idea. I was under the impression that WVO does not burn clean due to the FFA's. I was thinking of adding a burn ring to the stove so that it can do waste oil burning but that too looked not to burn clean enough. If WVO/Glycerin will burn clean enough then that mix should work well. Now to find a method to chip branches down to the needed size and not use more energy doing it then the final product gives. Jeromie Jason Katie wrote: what if some kind of sausage packer type press could be made for a mix of sawdust and WVO or glycerine? Jason ICQ#: 154998177 MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options You can probably create press of some type based on this concept: http://www.newdawnengineering.com/website/paper/brick/ Paper, saw dust, straw, etc. Plus, won't corn work as well? -dave On Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:35 AM, Jeromie Reeves wrote: Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 07:35:35 -0800 From: Jeromie Reeves To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Pellet fuel options Hello. Does anyone else use a pellet stove? Prices have jumped this year from $2.25~2.75 to $4.75+ That fairly dries up the reason to have/use the stove (cheaper cleaner fuel then oil/propane/classic wood) I am looking for other fuel options. I would love to produce my own pellets as I have access to tons of waste wood but it needs at least a season to be ready. I also have not been able to find a pellet machine that was not a million dollar investment. I have been thinking of using straw and hay as we have plenty of it here. Also there is a small personal mill in town that makes a fair bit of sawdust. Does anyone know of a pellet press or know of a way to make one? Jeromie ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
