Re: [biofuel] biodiesel using ethanol
hrmm, in re-reading kavitha post It sounds like something else. Maybe just a partially reacted batch. I wonder if a re-reaction w/ 3.5gm/L of lye would have pushed the reaction to completion. James On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, girl mark wrote: no it doesn't mark At 12:21 PM 2/12/2003 -0800, you wrote: sounds like GLOP!! Have you done the tirtations for the oil? tell us a little about the oil your using. James Slayden On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, kavitha palaniappan wrote: Hi, I have dropped the idea of using acid catalyst and I started preparing biodiesel with ethanol and KOH. But, even now, I face the same problem. I just don't get two layers! I get a uniform mass of biodiesel which is orangish brown in color and its viscosity is reduced to a considerable extent when compared to that of raw oil. I tried with different oil:ethanol ratios and the result is the same! And then, I tried water washing to separate the glycerol and the result was even more disappointing! The whole mass turned into a thick, creamish white liquid! I allowed it to settle overnight and no change! I didn't come across any such problems when I used methanol and NaOH with the same oil. I clearly got two layers, one biodiesel and another glycerol. In fact, then, I did not even go for water washing as I felt that it was a pretty good separation! Why is this process not working out with ethanol? I'm also sure about the quality of ethanol that I am using, as it is a laboratory reagent. And, KOH was also completely soluble in ethanol unlike NaOH. So, no problem with ethanol and KOH. Finally, where is the mistake lying? Can anybody help me? Kavitha. - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.h ml Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel. tml Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Chokecherries
Not so much out here west. They are part of several Native American ceremony's. Sundance, Crying on the Hill, etc On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Steve Spence wrote: I wonder if you can also ferment the cherries. I was not aware the pits had oil potential. They grow almost everywhere. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 11:59 AM Subject: [biofuel] Chokecherries Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England That's oil, from the pits. Interesting agroforestry/windbreak/soil conservation opportunity, I'd think, especially for our Prairies. Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca On Tuesday, February 18, 2003, at 04:06 AM, Steve Spence wrote: ethanol or oil? I'm assuming ethanol from chokecherries? Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 11:49 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England Speaking of oil palms, how about those oil palms of the northchokecherries Tests have shown that a car can run for about 7,000 kilometres on a hectare of wheat converted into ethanol, 14,000 km on canola-based biodiesel and 30,000 km on a hectare of chokecherries. http://www.extension.iastate.edu/Pages/grain/news/newsarchive/ 02igqinews/020926igqinews4.html Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mercedes vs. Volkswagon
I miss my trooper . :( On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, studio53 wrote: It's a good motor. I have the 86 Isuzu Trooper turbo diesel running on veg oil. Bulletproof and as heavy as the Titanic anchor. --- Jesse Parris | studio53 | 53 maitland rd | stamford, ct 06906 203.324.4371www.jesseparris.com/ - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Mercedes vs. Volkswagon hello again izusu I mark was a good car too with a diesel motor Kenny Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Engine Transplant
I wonder if the EarthRoamer guy has had problems: www.EarthRoamer.com On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, harley3 wrote: Ken: Also the automatic dodge transmission used on the Cummins diesel engine do not hold up. Look at ads on used dodge trucks with a diesel. Every truck with an automatic state rebuilt transmission. Watch for a little time, and you will also notice the problem. Harley -Original Message- From: Ken Riznyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 2:05 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] Engine Transplant I have a 94 Dodge conversion van with a 318 gasoline engine. It has over 200,000 miles on it and I am thinking that I will need a new engine soon. Does anyone have any ideas on what would be a good diesel transplant? The Cummings diesel used in the Dodge Ram Pickup uses the same tranny but is much to big to fit into the small engine compartment in the van. Ken Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT [time=1045621906388588] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England
Hi Tricia, Contact your local ARS, as they work on those issues. On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Tricia Liu wrote: Corns yeilds 18 gallon/acre Soya yields 48 gallon/acre Cocunuts 287 gallon/acre Oil Palm635 gallon/acre Chokecherries 214 gallon/acre? Based on those yields, the price for Oil Palm should be 35 times better than corns? The retail price for Biofuel is $2.05-2.50/gallon. So we are talking about an Oil Palm crop that can produce $1,400 - $1,587.50 market value per acre comparing to $36.90 - $45/gallon for the corns? (Or other suitable plants for the climate and the processing capability) I don't know how many yields per year for these plants and maybe the harvest will be hard etc. But the BioFuel Accosiation or the Farmers groups should find a better BioFuel crops to grow, to make more money and provide better yield! Howcome the farmers states never put some funds to discover the best yield crops and encourange their farmers to at least switch some of their lands to grow these energy crops? By mass production to bring down the prices of BioFuel, then more drivers will switch to Bio Diesel vehicles. Can not believe that there are no organization or talents in the government in doing this job? To improve the productivity of the lands and to increase the incomes of the farmers. Farmers should use wisely your resources and voting right, not only helping to set up experimental farms to find the best crops for each states. Just like France and Italy, Biofuel should be tax free to help her to gain market share. And maybe later on, after BioFuel replaced good portion of the Fossil oil fuel. Go back to tax again, by that time, the BioFuel prices should be really reasonable! Hope to hear from the real farmers, I'm just speculating. There must have some organization will lead the farmers to plan their production to get the maximum market value of of the same land? The productivity of the farmers had been high, but you have to add in the market value consideration. To grow more valuable crops to make more money, the money will either goes to imported oil or goes to the farmers. - Original Message - From: norris hobson (SRI) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 4:42 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] good oil crops for England The reasons are many: The markets are probably not in place The processing is not in place Farmers have the equipment and knowledge to grow and harvest corn, wheat soya etc. They will not commit their large farms to a crop which they do not know how to grow, harvest and sell. The claims for yields are probably based on research with trial plots and the yields from growing them in real conditions with pests and diseases that will get bigger as the crops get bigger are much lower. I'll take the example of hemp grown in the UK - it is a wonder crop, amazing yield, needs little fertiliser and chemicals as it grows so fast. Amazing tough fibre, seed can be used for biodiesel etc. But how much is grown. Around 2500 ha. even with a subsidy of around £500/ha. Why - because it is a bastard to harvest and the yields are much lower than the researchers quote, and hence the returns are lower. There is a small demand for it but a UK company has been working very hard for years to promote the crop, and their main market was/is the hurds used for horse bedding. What are chokeberries. Is it April 1st. Rob -Original Message- From: Tricia Liu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 19 February 2003 11:58 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England Mr.Hartman posted a long message not long ago, voicing for the American Farmers. The income is lower and the cost is growing higher... And then there are discussion about these higher yield products, so why don't the farmers grow the better yield crops? African Oil plants or the chokecherries? Climate or weather limitation? Cost too high? (I may retire earlier to start my own farm, if these are the star crops for the future!) So why don't you? The growing demand of BioFuel and the corns and Soy beans are not the best sources for biofuel? Seem to be a simple solution but did I miss anything? Instead of asking for the government to keep on funding, maybe if the farmers switching to the higher yield crops. Then we will see some Farmer Tycoons over those oil Tycoons? - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 8:55 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England They do. More oil per acre than African oil palms, apparently, and a LOT of pulp for ethanol - and they smell nice too? Bonus. The bees prolly love 'em. Edward Beggs http://www.biofuels.ca On Tuesday,
[biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] On the road to cleaner air
because someones pocket was being lined with greenbacks . ;-) Anyone in Boston doing BD that can sell to the school system out there? On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Keith Addison wrote: Grist's comment: Boston is moving to protect its students [from diesel fumes] by retrofitting school buses with new filtration systems that can eliminate 90 percent of diesel emissions. The Boston project is the largest in a New England-wide effort to clean up school buses; it is being paid for out of a $1.4 million fund created by the U.S. EPA with money won in a lawsuit against a Massachusetts waste-handling company. According to EPA estimates, the upgrades will eliminate at least 540 pounds of diesel particulate matter, 2,480 pounds of smog-causing hydrocarbons, and 17,380 pounds of carbon monoxide from the air every year. Those numbers are rather minor, aren't they? For that much money? Why not just use biodiesel instead? Keith http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/047/west/On_the_road_to_cleaner_air+.shtml Boston Globe Online / West Weekly / On the road to cleaner air MILFORD On the road to cleaner air School vehicles retrofitted to reduce diesel emissions By Franco Ordonez, Globe Staff Correspondent, 2/16/2003 ne by one, Boston public school buses are making their way out to Milford, taken off their smog-producing routes and sent west for a few days of detox, of sorts. They are driven to a secluded part of town, almost hidden behind towering granite walls along Quarry Drive, and into a massive, hangar-sized garage. Raising the buses on lifts, mechanics dressed in blue jumpsuits attach computers and sensors to the engines, then discard the mufflers, replacing them with new retro-filtration systems that eliminate up to 90 percent of diesel emissions. It is perhaps an unlikely venue to kick off an effort that environmental officials hope eventually ends the prospect of students' choking on diesel fumes on their way to school. The work, being done under the aegis of the Environmental Protection Agency, is in response to a February 2002 study conducted by Yale University and a Connecticut nonprofit, Environment and Human Heath Inc., that looked at children's exposure to diesel exhaust from school buses. The EPA has launched a national push for the use of pollution control devices and ultra low-sulfur diesel fuel on trucks and buses. The EPA is dedicating $1.4 million to the effort, a sum won in an April settlement with Waste Management of Massachusetts. The EPA contended that the waste-hauling company mishandled the disposal of some home appliances, which released chlorofluorocarbons into the atmosphere. The money is funding the largest retrofitting project of school buses in New England. Five months into the project, EPA officials recently celebrated the pilot program's continuing success at Southworth-Milton Inc. in Milford, a Caterpillar engine distributor, where 100 Boston school buses from the school district's biggest bus yard are being outfitted with the special diesel particulate filters. All 200 buses at the district's Readville yard are currently running on ultra-low sulfur fuel. According to EPA officials, the combination of retrofitting the buses and using ultra low-sulfur fuel will eliminate at least 540 pounds of diesel particulate matter, 2,480 pounds of smog-causing hydrocarbons, and 17,380 tons of carbon monoxide air pollution in Boston each year. This, environmental officials say, will make school bus rides much safer for children. ''This allows us to do even better,'' said Richard Jacobs, director of transportation for the Boston School Department, who noted that the city has already made strides to lower school bus emissions. The work, the first of its kind in the state, is being targeted to some of the most polluted areas of Boston, including Roxbury, Dorchester, and Mattapan, where, according to the EPA, asthma rates are as much as 178 percent higher than the state average and are the leading cause of childhood emergency hospitalizations. Last September, students of William B. Rogers Middle School in Hyde Park began riding the first retrofitted school bus, which traps diesel exhaust and turns it into carbon dioxide and water. Since then, 17 revamped buses have hit Boston streets. Nationally, 600,000 school buses carry 24 million children to school daily, according to Environment and Human Health Inc. Children annually spend 3 billion hours on school buses, considered the safest way for children to get to school. But the vast majority of those buses run on diesel fuel, which, according to the EPA, emits human carcinogens that can aggravate asthma, and even cause lung cancer and premature death. Diesel exhaust contains more than 40 air pollutants, including fine particles of carbon and a mixture of toxic gases, according to Environment and Human Health. ''It's so small that
RE: [biofuel] good oil crops for England
I think the idea for fallow land is a quick growing, non-input, multi-planting/harvesting per year crop. A farmer would have to ask if chokecherry fits into that scheme. I also like what Norris said about the equipment costs that a farmer already has invested, and how that would translate to the crop grown. I would think that chokecherry would be a better fit in non-farmland plantings. But jatropha seems better in this application. There also is a blight that is effecting the chokecherry that might end up being and issue. James Slayden On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, norris hobson (SRI) wrote: I think this answers the question of why farmers are not interested in growing these amazing yielding crops. Shrub does not bear any fruit for a number of years and grows to 20 foot tall. A farmer will want to harvest his crops with combine harvester or similar machinery he already has. Whilst it is possible to make a machine to harvest crops on bushes or trees they are specialist machines and very expensive, and only for very high value crops. Grapes, tea, etc. Who is going to pay the farmer while he waits for his chokeberries to start yielding when he has put huge sums of money into planting them. Rob -Original Message- From: Steve Spence [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 20 February 2003 11:22 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England we have choke cherry trees 20' tall growing in a sandy area 5 miles from the nearest stream, and 300 feet above the nearest water. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 9:33 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] good oil crops for England Chokecherries are a shrub. Takes a few years before they would bear fruit. Also I don't know any nursery that sells them. They grow wild in ravines. That means they need more water than the average field. Lots of chokecheeries near streams. Not as near as willows but close. Kirk -Original Message- From: Tricia Liu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 4:58 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] good oil crops for England Mr.Hartman posted a long message not long ago, voicing for the American Farmers. The income is lower and the cost is growing higher... And then there are discussion about these higher yield products, so why don't the farmers grow the better yield crops? African Oil plants or the chokecherries? Climate or weather limitation? Cost too high? [message truncated] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] stockpiling wvo
I have been thinking about that also, what other ways are there to break a glyceride from the ester with alcohol. I have read the supercritical methanol method, but that is too severe for home brewing. Seems that only heat and pressure would do . but there has to be another way. I'm sure if I was a chemist or a process engineer I might have an inkling, but since I'm not James Slayden On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Greg and April wrote: I have wondered if UV could be used to cause the reaction between the oil and alcohol, then that would be one less item needed to make BioDiesel. Greg H. - Original Message - From: kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 20:36 Subject: RE: [biofuel] stockpiling wvo I suspect the uv will promote chemical reactions. Kirk Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] hog fat and vegetarians?
yep, I will be a confusing issue, but a great marketing opportunity, just like having an organic feedstock. B100-V!! James Slayden On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Martin Klingensmith wrote: Fuel made from animal by-products raises an interesting issue for vegan and vegetarians, does it not? --- Martin Klingensmith nnytech.net infoarchive.net Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Retrieving the gold...
Just for the gallery, how long does it take your experienced oil diving to gather 40gals with a pitcher? ;-) On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pumping coldish WVo with a dc pump is one of the most complicated things I've found about this process. I just gave up and I use something plastic as a pitcher to scoop the stuff. more recently I've taken to using a 4 gallon bucket to do it (and have a bigger bucket to then put the dirty bucket into so as not to get oil all over my vehicle). here's what doens't work too well: the 12V pumps that SVOers commonly use are the 12V, $70 transfer pumps from Northern Tool (also sold by Greasel and greasecar and others I believe). These things come with a fuse- so you'd think, why, I can't burn up this pump, the fuse will blow. But I know many, many people (oh, about 5) who have cooked the wiring of these things while the fuse sits there and does nothing (other than letting loads of electricity flow right on through where it makes a smoky mess of the other wiring). Northern can't even tell you much about these- they're made in China somewhere and northern.. well, never mind. Just don't try and get customer service from places like that. anyway if you are using really nice oil that's liquid they're probably OK-ish, but I don't recommend them. (and in Arizona you won't have too much trouble with the liquid part like 70% of the year due to the temperatures) I have heard but did not experience myself that the cheap Simer Blue 12V utility pumps (thats the Pudl-Scooper deal from some Ace Hardware stores) can work OK but knowing Simer's reputation I wonder about this- they're cheap, and they're lightweight-looking. I'm experimenting with a 12V macerator toilet pump from a boat marine toilet, but it's not continuous-duty rated and I'm still experimenting... and some expensive bilge pumps would probably work too but I haven't tried it yet. anyway, that brings me to AC! There's much more of a choice in AC pumps- the motors are much heavier-duty, plus you have more of a choice in what's available. I use a Grainger (Teel brand actually) 'fryer filter' pump (a gear pump with an huge heavy 8-amp motor) that's been pretty bulletproof (we used it at the biodiesel coop for a year and it hasn't broken yet despite serious abuse). it's pricey- $220, and it's heavy, but it's designed for moving hot WVO around. If you can get an arrangement with the restaurant to let you run an extension cord to the oil dumpster, an ac pump is the way to go. If you want to use an inverter I've found that many pumps are a pretty big draw... Remember that all pumps push better than they 'suck'- so use a short hose on the intake end and a long one on the outgoing end. A foot valve is a good addition to a cheap non-self-priming pump. It is a check valve with a strainer. But scooping the stuff works OK if you're not a completely messy person. Also drill-driven pumps are sometimes suggested. I';ve found them useful for biodiesel moving, but I've destroyed a lot of them using them to pump oil- the rubber impeller (?) gets gummed up, then quickly tears loose from the steel shaft. I haven't tried this for the more expensive ($25) rebuildable versions sold by West Marine and other boat catalogs- I've only used the $5 Craftsman/sears variety- great for moving biodiesel, poor for WVO. If you're a DIY'er , mating an engine oil sump pump to some kind of appropriate motor (maybe even a cordless drill for small amounts of oil pumped) should work really well- they're selfpriming up to a point, and are 'bulletproof' gear pumps. The one I got came from a Chevy 350 and it has a really difficult driver to adapt to a motor without welding or machine work, so I 'lucked out' - not sure what model engines to recommend asking for at the junkyard, but some of them come with a female hex type drive, or other simple ones to mate a motor to. good luck, mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, kirk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If he was making his electricity with a small diesel the exhaust could supply all his process heat. Kirk -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 9:37 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Retrieving the gold... hello to all. Just joined and am setting up to make my own fuel. I have a question. What kind of pump is best for retrieving the used cooking oil from the containers out back of the restaurant ? I'm looking at 12 volt vane pumps, gear pumps, engine powered Trash pumps. WHAT are the rest of you using ?? Thanks, Bill in Az. = Bill Melley Kitchin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 602-999-7606 Welcome, Bill Hope you get some good responses - I'd also appreciate some good advice on this, the methods we've used up to now have been less than
Re: [biofuel] Solar powered air conditioning that really works with temps as low as 80C (176F)
Granted it has been around a long time and still used in commercial refridgeration, but I think that the utilization of a sterling cycle compressor is a better way to go. Yes, ammonia refridgeration could be a stepping stone, but again the concentrated ammonia is highly poisonous. Dunno, whats the lessor of two evils. James Slayden On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Hakan Falk wrote: James, Maybe I am starting to get old, but until around 35 years ago it was the dominant method in refrigerators. It is also a very common in nature and if I am not wrong it is to consider as a biogas, at least when I was young and worked with horses. Concentrated it is dangerous, but not more than some chemicals you use for making biodiesel. From an energy saving view, a solar driven air conditioner would be great product. It is built on ready for use technologies with some design changes. Could be a winner and silver bullet products. Relatively short implementation cycle, easy to manufacture, easy dimensioning, easy install and familiar technology. Well worth to investigate in more detail. The key was to lowering the demand on operating temperature and it seems that they found one good solution to this. Hakan At 03:39 PM 2/25/2003 -0800, you wrote: ammonia cooling is dangerous folks, be careful. On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Kris Book wrote: It seems like most houses are well enough insulated that they only need cooling when the sun is shining brightly but, refrigeration of food and even greenhouses could benefit greatly from using waste heat to power this system during periods of low direct sunlight. kris --- David Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on the same though.. why not use the waist heat from a veggie diesel co-generator for the heat source of this type of system. david [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://members.aon.at/solarfrost/main.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Barrels
hrmm, do they have a reuse systen in your state? They do out here called CALMAX that you can get lots of things from. James Slayden On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Doug Allbright wrote: Can someone suggest a good place to look for 55 gallon drums. I know where to buy them new for 32.00 each but I saw a post a while back that said people were paying around 7.00 each for them. I live in the Dallas FortWorth Texas area (USA) Thanks Doug Allbright [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Stainless steel drums
anyone know of refurb or salvage 85 or 110 drums. 55's are as common as dirt, but the larger sizes are somewhat more difficult to find. SF bay only please. skolnik is in Chicago I believe. Thnx, James Slayden On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Keith Addison wrote: Forwards from the Distillers list: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: waljaco [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:13:34 - Subject: [Distillers] SS drums in the U.S. Came across a site specializing in steel drums (including salvage drums and barrels) which would be suitable for distillers - http://www.skolnik.com Wal To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Robert Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:49:29 +1300 Subject: [Distillers] Stainless Drums For those residing in Oz, The Visypack plant in Brisbane produces a food-grade 60 litre stainless steel drum. The version that I was interested in was described as having a full open lid, retained with a clamp and nitrile (alcohol impervious) gasket. While I haven't seen one in the flesh, it sounds ideal for a boiler. At the time I made enquiries (Dec '02), Visypack's address was: Oxford St, Bulimda, but they were soon to shift to: 40 Ingham Place, Hammett. The contact person is a Jim Klaer (pronounced clear), Phone no. in Brisbane: 3890 9777. Price: Aus$154.66. For those (like me) residing in NZ, my original enquiries were through Visypack NZ, but with freight etc. the price became prohibitive. At this stage, I'm waiting for someone flying to Brisbane to bring me one back as unaccompanied baggage! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Solar powered air conditioning that really works with temps as low as 80C (176F)
Hi Hakan, Nope haven't seen any breakthroughs recently. I agree that in a commercial application ammonia will work well. Even home systems, but like what was said put the unit outside so if any ammonia leaks the danger is lowered (except for the neighbors . ;-) ). I think that using PV and a sunfrost would be a better option. Just my .02. BTW, I have an old (really old) popular science article of someone using ethanol in a dessicant cycle air conditioning system. It's burried and would have to REALLY look for it as it is in paper. It was a great application but I think the inventer was killed somehow (all you conspiracy theorists chime in here ) and it never got off the ground. I probably won't look for it as I have been too busy recently and I forgot where I filed it (really loose term here). Anyhow, there is/was a company a few years ago that was about to produce a PV/battery/sterling cooler for 3rd world applications (mostly vaccines) and was a really great all in one design. I would also have to look for the link to that . (weblink burried). James Slayden On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Hakan Falk wrote: Dear Kirk, Do not be impatient, maybe James have something to tell us. What I have seen is that this very old technology is very useful in some niche applications. To compete in simplicity, costs etc. with the air conditioning suggested, I did not thought so. In that sense I do not see Sterling as ready to use technology. On the other hand, it was a long time ago since I looked closer and maybe I missed some recent large break trough. Hakan At 12:46 PM 2/26/2003 -0700, you wrote: Still waiting to see a Stirling that is as efficient as other cycles across the same delta T. Kirk -Original Message- From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 12:10 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solar powered air conditioning that really works with temps as low as 80C (176F) James, If you can show me how the sterling will run from 80 degree Celsius solar heated warm water, I think we have an absolute winner. If then the compressor would work with a gas that is not dangerous or contribute to Global warming. A fantastic solution that definitely have my support. Hakan At 10:10 AM 2/26/2003 -0800, you wrote: Granted it has been around a long time and still used in commercial refridgeration, but I think that the utilization of a sterling cycle compressor is a better way to go. Yes, ammonia refridgeration could be a stepping stone, but again the concentrated ammonia is highly poisonous. Dunno, whats the lessor of two evils. James Slayden On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Hakan Falk wrote: James, Maybe I am starting to get old, but until around 35 years ago it was the dominant method in refrigerators. It is also a very common in nature and if I am not wrong it is to consider as a biogas, at least when I was young and worked with horses. Concentrated it is dangerous, but not more than some chemicals you use for making biodiesel. From an energy saving view, a solar driven air conditioner would be great product. It is built on ready for use technologies with some design changes. Could be a winner and silver bullet products. Relatively short implementation cycle, easy to manufacture, easy dimensioning, easy install and familiar technology. Well worth to investigate in more detail. The key was to lowering the demand on operating temperature and it seems that they found one good solution to this. Hakan At 03:39 PM 2/25/2003 -0800, you wrote: ammonia cooling is dangerous folks, be careful. On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Kris Book wrote: It seems like most houses are well enough insulated that they only need cooling when the sun is shining brightly but, refrigeration of food and even greenhouses could benefit greatly from using waste heat to power this system during periods of low direct sunlight. kris --- David Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on the same though.. why not use the waist heat from a veggie diesel co-generator for the heat source of this type of system. david [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://members.aon.at/solarfrost/main.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More
Re: [biofuel] Re: Measuring Lye
I was also wondering about that as a conversion table I looked at had something like 1tsp == 1gm for salt. Has anyone done a conversion for Lye? Or seen one somewheres arounds? James Slayden On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn 't recommend determining weight from volume. I also have bought cheaper scales than that. Ebay is one resource. It sometimes takes some looking to find them- search under gram balance or triple balance beam as well as scale there... flea markets sometimes have stuff like this too. So do pawn shops. mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Dan Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Is there a way to determine the weight of lye without a scale. The cheapest scale I could find on Edmund Scientific was 100 bucks. Is there a general conversion that is pretty acurate? Thanks. Dan __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Retrieving the gold...
Hrmm, can't seem to find a link for that. Might you have one? On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Robby Davenport wrote: lowes stores in the usa have deep fryer oil pumps battery operated , for the deep friers used for whole turkeys; it even has a screen on the intake . price about 30 buck ' s Robert Keith Addison wrote: hello to all. Just joined and am setting up to make my own fuel. I have a question. What kind of pump is best for retrieving the used cooking oil from the containers out back of the restaurant ? I'm looking at 12 volt vane pumps, gear pumps, engine powered Trash pumps. WHAT are the rest of you using ?? Thanks, Bill in Az. = Bill Melley Kitchin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 602-999-7606 Welcome, Bill Hope you get some good responses - I'd also appreciate some good advice on this, the methods we've used up to now have been less than ideal. Time to upgrade. Meanwhile, have a look at how Chuck Ranum does it: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_processor4.html Best wishes Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Measuring Lye - Cheap Scales
Titration scale: http://www.aweighscales.com/digital_scales_Gram_Scales.htm $10 seems doable . James Slayden On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark, thanks! I completely forgot about this technique, and it's super useful for those not planning to make any quantities of fuel- like SVo'ers needing a small amount of lye/water reference tester for doing titration on oil to see how bad it is for instance. Asking people to shell out even $25 for a scale they'll only use once is painful. At one of the first workshops I taught, my friend and I showed up separately at a campout and he figured out that he'd forgotten his scale and part of his other supplies (we'd sorta kinda planned doing a demo of biodiesel to identify the nerds among us so he did have the oil and lye). What to do? My friend was a first aid person, and using some supplies of his I built a scale- a straw with a string threaded through the exact middle for the balance, with a pair of small plastic medicine cups hanging on either end. We had syringe bodies, and used one syringe to put a few milliliters of water in one end of the 'scale' and poured lye into the other till we had the amount that balanced the weight of the water in the other cup. It was windy and I had to attach the'scale' to a rear view mirror of a car, and to make it work in the wind I got into the car, rolled up the windows and closed the doors, and the workshop participants crowded around and gawked while my friend narrated from the outdoors. I felt like a fish in an aquarium. I remember that someone years ago suggested finding paper in a certain weight per ream, cutting little 1 cubic centimeter weights out of it, and doing what Foltarz suggests below. mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Mark Foltarz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unless I made a wrong turn on a calculation, it looks as if water weighs 1.0233 gms / CC. Yes, thats absolutely pure deionized water. Suppose you made a balance with two graduated containers and a balance beam. Something about coat hangers and Wal Mart kitchen supplies come to mind. You could then add a specific amount of water to one container for a specific weight. Than add the lye to the other container until the system comes back into balance. Similarly, you could borrow a scale to calibrate your own little weights - 1gm, 10gm, 50gm etc. Make a few of each. These could be used in place of liquid water. ~~ Nahh just save up some bread and buy a digital designer scale at the William Sonoma. Just kidding! Yikes! ~~ Mark --- girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wouldn 't recommend determining weight from volume. I also have bought cheaper scales than that. Ebay is one resource. It sometimes takes some looking to find them- search under gram balance or triple balance beam as well as scale there... flea markets sometimes have stuff like this too. So do pawn shops. mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Dan Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Is there a way to determine the weight of lye without a scale. The cheapest scale I could find on Edmund Scientific was 100 bucks. Is there a general conversion that is pretty acurate? Thanks. Dan __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Drill Pump $4.86
Hola Folks, Here is a drill pump for pumping BD for only $4.86 @ Lowes. This is similar to the one that Sears puts out only costs less. Great for both 110v and portable drills. BTW, only to be used for BD as Mark will contest that WVO is too much for this little pump. Mark, didn't you mention a rebuildable version of this that was somewhat more hardy? James Slayden Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- New Yahoo! Mail Plus. More flexibility. More control. More power. Get POP access, more storage, more filters, and more. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Hcb0iA/P.iFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Drill Pump $4.86
whoops forgot the link: http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=productDetailproductId=25781-335-RDP-1 Sorry! James On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, James Slayden wrote: Hola Folks, Here is a drill pump for pumping BD for only $4.86 @ Lowes. This is similar to the one that Sears puts out only costs less. Great for both 110v and portable drills. BTW, only to be used for BD as Mark will contest that WVO is too much for this little pump. Mark, didn't you mention a rebuildable version of this that was somewhat more hardy? James Slayden Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Or maybe just one Was: Perhaps many .. but not all
I prefer the term enclosed truck that seats many as that is exactly what my UV does. Right now it has 12 LMR 400 spools in the back and some various 5 gal buckets, and also some recycling I need to take in. ;-) But then again, I walked to work so the air stays cleaner (and me healthier). James Slayden On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, Keith Addison wrote: Hi Tony Curtis, Check me if I'm wrong but I've been over to Journeytoforever.org and I believe that Kieth does indeed drive an SUV. He of course does fuel it with buidiesel and that does make a difference. We'd never heard of SUVs. We thought they were 4x4s, or 4WDs. Same Series Land Rovers that Jean-Leon was just talking about, though not quite as old as his (not that that makes any difference). And indeed they spent much of their time off-road, doing what they were built for - and that's work, not fun. Again to quote Jean-Leon: A real working vehicle is not an SUV - I consider real trucks UVs. Right. Anyway, one was a diesel, which ran on biodiesel, the other gasoline, which we'd planned to run on ethanol. We do have a fuel ethanol still, but it's not what it's claimed to be and the search for a real fuel still proved elusive. Very. Could be some news on that soon though. But we never got to run it on ethanol. Much as we loved them, we sold them both a while back. They were great for our learning curve but as our project developed we realized they weren't what we needed. No need for real workhorses yet though, we won't be leaving until winter at least, and it shouldn't be a problem then. Meanwhile we're getting involved in various rural projects here in and around this village, as planned, but again we don't need an SUV, nor a real UV workhorse either - we're using the Toyota I was telling Curtis about: Our Toyota Town-Ace turbo van is a 4x4, and it's serious, not just a toy. Too busy to really put it through its paces off-road very much yet, coming soon - plenty of great off-road tracks here, and in places we need to go to. Maybe you noticed Ed trying to get us to give it to him? LOL! Sorry Ed! Aleks Kac's an avid off-roader, there are a couple of these Town-Aces in his club, and he says I have seen them embarrass quite a few 'purebred' 4WDs on muddy hills. 1.9-litre 4-cyl turbo diesel, we're getting more than 40 mpg. The Town-Ace is great! We're really impressed with it, and it's perfect for what we're doing here. In fact we're thinking of taking it with us too, as well as a couple of workhorses. Good buy it was - it's in fine condition, 72,000 miles, which would be genuine. Cost equiv US$1,250. Actually it probably cost about $100 (seriously) - the rest is for the onerous supply of highly expensive paperwork required in Japan, which finally makes owning older cars prohibitive. This one was just on the balance where you win both ways, very good price. Anyway, I can't imagine why I'd ever want an SUV - I don't mean the exceptions, I mean the fashion-statement behemoths that aren't UVs at all. I asked before, by the way, does anybody know where the term SUV comes from? Best wishes Keith In the US more and more SUVs are actually being built on minivan (these are full size vans outside the USA) chasis. This should improve fuel economy some and safety as well as they will not be so top-heavy or even quite so heavy (safety of the cars they hit). The personal liberty issue is an important one and I share your fears. The basis of personal liberty is personal responsibility and I see a great erosion of both in the US. OTOH is is very hard to make good and responsible decisions when there is so much misinformation from all directions. Due to some very bad diesels sold in the US in the 1980s the country is afraid of them. I studied diesels, worked on them, and really like them but there are no viable diesels sold in America today that meet my criteria. I used to have a Mercury Topaz diesel and that was a wonderful car but it is no longer on the market and its replacement is not available with diesel. Regards Tony Dean Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] New California Biodiesel plant
Largest one in the nation (apparently): http://www.baat.com/pr03-02-24.htm James Slayden Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [evworld] Re: [biofuel] New California Biodiesel plant
Nope, not me. I think that it was someone else. I had some contention with SSPC, but that was about all. I did call BAT yesterday to find out the opening date and they were reluctant. I also was trying to dig for the 'special' process they were hearlding, and it was just single stage continuous. I thought they might be trying the supercitical method, but I don't think so from what they indicated. I also thought they might be using some sort of acid/base method, but again I really don't think so. James Slayden On Mon, 3 Mar 2003, murdoch wrote: It's nice to see, but let's be careful. Going by the URL, we can see this is reconstituted B.A.T. international. I am less cynical about them than others (I think at times they meant well) but I wouldn't go rushing out to buy any stock in the new company. The first time I ever heard about SSPC, Southern States Power (now declined to 1/2 cent per share) was from a person at BAT, as SSPC apparently had something to do with them. At the time I think there was some petroleum claim in the Gulf of Mexico which SSPC had something to do with. Later we see SSPC supposedly wanting to do the biofuel thing here in California and I guess there's been some effort, so good. But I'm just saying: let's see the Green Star production numbers, when they have production. B.A.T. had every invention in sight that was going to change the world, including an 80 mpg diesel metro, powered by some strange engine advance, a wonderful super duper lubricant, etc. No, they weren't just a scam. I personally visited a plant in Mexico that they'd set up to build cars, and indeed it was there and they were doing their best, if naively. But I think they were too ambitious, not focused enough and there were many bad signs. I always took a company about to save the world with six different inventions to be a bad sign. I do think they were at times *very* guilty of some of the worst sort of stock promotion. One bad sign was the el-bizarro amount of posting on stock-discussion boards about B.A.T. Later on this also was characteristic of SSPC (what a surprise). I didn't know this until there was a story in the Wall Street Journal about alternative energy stock scams taking advantage of the energy issues, particularly the crisis in California. The Journal story pointed out that there were dozens of thousands of posts about SSPC on a stock discussion board, although the company only had reported revenues of something like $32,000. Sheesh. The President replied that he agreed with the reporter that the amount of interest in the company was not commensurate with its activities. I replied on my web page that I felt compelled to put them and BAT both into a bit of an Alternative Energy Hall of Shame, given that the President of SSPC and-or his secretary had taken compensation in SEVEN figures for a company that had about $32,000 in revenues. So anyway, by that time BAT was not any longer part of them, but I am just skeptical until I see otherwise that this new incarnation of Mr. Lastella's will prove fruitful. However, I don't take it for granted that it won't. I met him a couple of times, and Bill Wasson several times, and I think they had some technical knowledge and some desire to put together a company. They need to focus and do it though, and cut out the stock market focus and manipulation. Just my opinion. James, didn't you or someone else mention something about buying some biofuel near San Diego from Bill Wasson? Sometimes they'd balance out the chance to write them off by actually doing something that took business competence and follow-through. MM Largest one in the nation (apparently): http://www.baat.com/pr03-02-24.htm James Slayden Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: glycerol seperation and clouds
5/40 = 12.5% so he is about right there. It should be from ~10 - 15% depending on feedstock, chemicals, and processing for a single stage batch process. On Wed, 5 Mar 2003, Keith Addison wrote: mark and keith - thanks for the advice. I am going to go down to the lab today and run several 1 liter tests, including reprocessing and the oil wash (intersesting idea!). I will report on what I find. What is the philosophy behind mixing the glycerine back in after seperation? and might that also be a help in my situation? Aleks suggests it in the acid-base two-stage method (but not an essential step): http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_aleksnew.html Foolproof biodiesel process See Step #18. Is it possible that 5 gallons glycerine (1/8 volume) seperation on 40 gallons oil is normal? Should be about 11%, but I think that's just the glyc, and you're probably talking of everything, aren't you? - the stuff that drops out at the bottom of the tank, glycerine, soap (from FFA), catalyst and about half the excess methanol. But 5 in 40 could be right. What would be the consequence of burning fuel in an engine if there were more glycerine to drop out? Have a look at this previous message about contaminants: http://nnytech.net/~archive2/index.php?view=18968list=BIOFUEL Thanks for the follow up - more soon on my trials. Yes please! Best Keith Best, Jack Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Island School 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax www.islandschool.org Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- DVD Rentals with No Late Fees - Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/abvVKB/pEZFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: New Biodiesel fuel station in San Jose open to public - no cardlock needed!
or get diesel #2 cost competitive with BD!! ;-) Let's see the real price of diesel #2 ... On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, aegent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few years ago I tried to convince a co-worker that he should at least look at the Diesel since it was available in the car he was looking at. The arguments he had were dirty, smelly, get it on your hands, get it in the car, and get it on your clothes. B100 fixes one of the most common objections to Diesel. Now if we can get it to be cost competitive with gasoline (not D2 as the argument is to gasoline car owners). td --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, hjackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just filled up with biodiesel at West Valley Oil this morning in San Jose. Couldn't be easier. Just drive up to the pump (there are 2 hoses available), pump your B100 biodiesel, and pay for it in the office. No extra charge to use my ATM card. I don't know about any surcharge for credit cards. Price is $2.79 a gallon for B100, but it feel's great driving a sustainable fuel vehicle. I still had about 1/2 a tank of #2 diesel in the car, so I guess I'm running a B50 blend. Bob Brown at West Valley Oil told me that they are currently using about 50% virgin and 50% waste vegetable oil sourced biodiesel. He says that there is more btu capability out of the waste vegetable oil source, and I'm not sure if it is wishful thinking or not, but on my drive home on the freeway, I felt more power out of my little 1.6L VW diesel Westy. The proof of the impression is that I found myself in the rare atmosphere of the fast lane doing 70 MPH Formerly 65 on a GOOD day! (maybe I had a tailwind) Pretty simple to get there. From the North, take 280 to the 10th / 11th Street exit and turn right on 10th Street. Travel about 10 blocks and it's on your left just after Spartan Stadium. The address is 1790 S. 10th. I ran into one other biodiesel customer that heard about this station from your posting just as I was telling Bob that I think he's going to get a lot of business from people like me who have been looking for a local source of publicly available biodiesel for a while. I hope that people let others know about this station. It is great to have an other source than the Olympian cardlock station in S.F. and West Valley Oil should be rewarded with lots of business for taking the initiative to make B100 available to the general public. Olympian Oil (and others), are you listening? Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: New Biodiesel fuel station in San Jose open to public - no cardlock needed!
Just saw the price of Diesel #2 at the local Shell for $2.23. Looks like things are moving upward. The San Jose BD pump is looking more affordable by the minute. On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, murdoch wrote: On Tue, 04 Mar 2003 22:23:21 -, you wrote: I will be keeping a record of my milage on B100. My baseline for Dinodiesel #2 is 23.3 mpg average over 17 records, highest mpg= 26.6. Awesome, thx. I will look forward to this, and then we should be able to do a $ per mile cost calculation and get a sense of how much further we have to go to reach those who care about that, and nothing else. There was a newspaper article today about the national price of gas. The price per barrel has come down a few dollars, but the price at the pump is lingering (I don't think it's that surprising that there's a little lag). Of course, there's all sorts of moral outrage about gouging and so forth. But another point mentioned was the number of smaller trucker (owning something like 9 trucks or less) who have been put out of business and continue to be, when these price spikes occurr. The larger truckers also feel it, but do have better mechanisms in place apparently to pass on some of the costs. If B100 could ever be reduced enough in price to really be competitive on that basis, then it would be interesting to see if it would help these folks who are being so affected by petro-diesel costs. AT the pump down the street here, #2 is about $1.95, so it sounds like you're at about an 80 cent premium, if your #2 is around the same. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] U.S. Seeking Cleaner Model of Coal Plant
use the CO2 to feed algae farms. interesting I haven't seen any tech pulling the carbon from the oxy and burning the O2 for CHP. James Slayden On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, kirk wrote: LOL Is this the filter through hydrated CaO so it makes CaCO3 ? Is the CO2 emitted at the kiln where CaCo3 is made into CaO part of the equation? Just wondering. Then there is the alternate plan of sequestering CO2 plus who knows what underground. That should make acid groundwater instead of acid rain. A cure of some kind I am sure. The dissolved minerals should be a welcome addition to any water supply. ;) What will be the cost to the taxpayers to obtain potable water? Considering this is the same group of troglodytes that thinks genetically modified crops are our answer to a prayer I suppose it all makes sense. :) Kirk -Original Message- From: Party of Citizens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 1:19 PM To: Martin Cc: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [biofuel] U.S. Seeking Cleaner Model of Coal Plant On Thu, 6 Mar 2003, Martin wrote: A representative went on to say: biofuels? You mean wood? Of course, the $1B couldn't be better spent on something like, say: SOLAR or WIND power. Seriously, they want to trap the carbon dioxide that comes out, and do WHAT with it. What would you suggest? POC Convert it to carbon and release the oxygen? The car that runs on water comes to mind, with the only by-product being water. --- Martin Klingensmith nnytech.net infoarchive.net -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 2:40 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com Subject: [biofuel] U.S. Seeking Cleaner Model of Coal Plant http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/28/science/28COAL.html U.S. Seeking Cleaner Model of Coal Plant By ANDREW C. REVKIN The Energy Department yesterday announced plans to build an experimental power plant within 10 years that runs on coal but emits no carbon dioxide, the heat-trapping greenhouse gas that makes coal plants major contributors to global warming. The project, called FutureGen, is considered a first step toward creating a generation of coal-fueled power plants that emit no greenhouse gases and cost no more than 10 percent extra to run, department officials said. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.458 / Virus Database: 257 - Release Date: 2/24/2003 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Hemp was Re: [biofuel] Re: VW Diesel Warranty exclusions!!
Hrmm, maybe not commercial, but could be . http://www.hempoilcan.com/ http://www.hempcar.org/ I think what Todd is saying that the oil is really just a co-product with the bast processing for fiber, which in itself is similar to what the soy industry is doing with soy oil. The real value of hemp is in textiles, paper replacement, etc. No reason that the oil couldn't be used for biodiesel, although it might have more vaule as a high end product. This is the same as rice oil, grapeseed oil, and various other high end oils that lend themselves to a high value product. James Slayden On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Appal Energy wrote: No. It's not. But it is perhaps the highest bio-mass producer that also yields edible oil, meal.and fiber. It stands the greatest chance of succeeding economically as a biomass crop due to its multiple co-products and overall yields, if only the United States government would get out of the way. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: VW Diesel Warranty exclusions!! why hemp? no commercial biodiesel is made from hemp. It's not a very good oil producer. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: http://www.green-trust.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Cole [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 12:00 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: VW Diesel Warranty exclusions!! I have talked to my local VW dealer a lot about my intentions of running biodiesel, and he has said nothing about the waranty being voided. Biofuel will EXTEND the life of the engine long after the waranty expires. I am going down tomorow morning to Santa Rosa CA VW dealer and get a 2002 Golf TDI, and I am going to run biodiesel at $2.65 a gallon for under 100 gallons. I may get a few 55 gal drums and get 100 gallons at $2.35/gal.. in the Golf, the 14.5 gallon tank will take the car about 650-690 miles, depending city or hwy driving. With that kind of mileage I can drive to the coast every weekend and not spend a fortune on GASoline... the lowest prices here right now are about $1.99, and soon to go over $2. I cant wait to stick stickers all over it about biodiesel and hemp. --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, John Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve Spence wrote: legally, the warranty can only be voided if the claim was due to a fuel related problem. e.g. if the fuel pump goes, you're screwed. But if the rear brake rotors fail, legally, they cannot refuse to service the car. But anyway, how are they gonna know you were running BD unless: a) you tell 'em or b) your car is covered with pro-biodiesel bumper stickers? Run BD for the 1st 4 years and only put BD bumper stickers on after the warranty expires. John Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: Hemp was Re: [biofuel] Re: VW Diesel Warranty exclusions!!
Really?? I am confused. The folks I talked to at California Rice Oil indicated that there is little production and thus the high end price. They musta been jerkin my chain. Keith, would you have any sources for industrial rice oil? I have done an incredible amount of searching and hardly found a thing on the web. Same goes for avocado oil. It's quite possible that I should be looking in some sort of commodity house or something. Thanks, James Slayden On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, Keith Addison wrote: Hrmm, maybe not commercial, but could be . http://www.hempoilcan.com/ http://www.hempcar.org/ I think what Todd is saying that the oil is really just a co-product with the bast processing for fiber, which in itself is similar to what the soy industry is doing with soy oil. The real value of hemp is in textiles, paper replacement, etc. No reason that the oil couldn't be used for biodiesel, although it might have more vaule as a high end product. This is the same as rice oil, grapeseed oil, and various other high end oils that lend themselves to a high value product. Most rice oil is wasted. Best Keith James Slayden On Sun, 9 Mar 2003, Appal Energy wrote: No. It's not. But it is perhaps the highest bio-mass producer that also yields edible oil, meal.and fiber. It stands the greatest chance of succeeding economically as a biomass crop due to its multiple co-products and overall yields, if only the United States government would get out of the way. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Steve Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2003 8:15 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: VW Diesel Warranty exclusions!! why hemp? no commercial biodiesel is made from hemp. It's not a very good oil producer. Steve Spence Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] finally, a James Woolsey interview.... covers more than one proposed alt-fuel-bio-fuel solution
WOW! There is a market for FFA's .. http://www.changingworldtech.com/techfr.htm I would have never guessed. Now how to sell it in bulk following glyc seperation. James Slayden On Tue, 11 Mar 2003, murdoch wrote: http://www.evworld.com/databases/storybuilder.cfm?storyid=507 I wonder what fuel they were talking about here: In addition to ethanol production, he also sees promise in a new technology called Thermo-Depolymerization. In partnership with Conagra Foods, a large food processor in the United States, a small company called Changing World Technologies, has installed a system that will take agriculture waste from a turkey processing plant in Carthage, Missouri and convert it into a short-chain hydrocarbon gas similar to natural gas and a high-grade bio-diesel fuel, among other bi-products. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Blue Sun Biodiesel was Re: double cropping
Someone please correct me, but aren't a legumes nitrogen fixing? Maybe they are doing something with that. I'm sure their not going to give up the farm and tell us what crop they are planning to grow, since it IS a part of their business stragety. But looking at the oilseed chart on JTF castorbeens come to mind. James Slayden On 11 Mar 2003, Darald Bantel wrote: On Mon, 2003-03-10 at 02:43, girl_mark_fire wrote: Blue Sun Biodiesel, who is a very ambitious biodiesel producer gearing up to build a huge plant in Colorado, is banking on local farmers' doublecropping as one of their strategies. I think the locals grow winter wheat. Growing an oilcrop for Blue Sun before the wheat season gives them the benefits you describe below. I think the crop is mustard- I could be wrong though, it was a casual conversation and I don't have the info in print anywhere. I also think they said it was a nitrogenfixer- I don't remember if mustard does that or not- but it sounded like a win-win situation for the local farmers on the Plains there- part of the idea is also that they'll be growing a crop with a guaranteed purchaser, not subject to market fluctuations in chicago or somehere. And they'll still be growing wheat. mark Greetings I would not think that it would be a form of mustard as there are (to date) no nitrogen fixing varieties of mustard and to do the bioengineering would mean that that this would be a genetically engineered crop - ergo - very very difficult to sell in today's markets!! Darald Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Biodiesel processing Plant design for WVO
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_supply.html There are various plant manufactures listed. On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, chris53bradley wrote: I would like any info for plant design for use in processing WVO for biodiesel production. I'm looking for a plant that could handle 1000 litres an hour of waste vege oil either in a mobile plant or a stationary plant. The one at Biodiesel Technologies is cost restrictive, for me at least. Thank you Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Blue Sun Biodiesel was Re: double cropping
Thanks for setting me straight. ;-) I actually wasn't sure on castor beans and didn't really want to look it up. Serves me right for being lazy On Wed, 12 Mar 2003, Neoteric Biofuels Inc wrote: Legumes are, but castor beans are not true beans and are not nitrogen fixers. They could also be looking at something like sunflowers and vetch, intercropped. Hairy vetch is a nitrogen fixer and cover crop, and has been intercropped with sunflowers. Edward Beggs On Wednesday, March 12, 2003, at 09:25 AM, James Slayden wrote: Someone please correct me, but aren't a legumes nitrogen fixing? Maybe they are doing something with that. I'm sure their not going to give up the farm and tell us what crop they are planning to grow, since it IS a part of their business stragety. But looking at the oilseed chart on JTF castorbeens come to mind. James Slayden On 11 Mar 2003, Darald Bantel wrote: On Mon, 2003-03-10 at 02:43, girl_mark_fire wrote: Blue Sun Biodiesel, who is a very ambitious biodiesel producer gearing up to build a huge plant in Colorado, is banking on local farmers' doublecropping as one of their strategies. I think the locals grow winter wheat. Growing an oilcrop for Blue Sun before the wheat season gives them the benefits you describe below. I think the crop is mustard- I could be wrong though, it was a casual conversation and I don't have the info in print anywhere. I also think they said it was a nitrogenfixer- I don't remember if mustard does that or not- but it sounded like a win-win situation for the local farmers on the Plains there- part of the idea is also that they'll be growing a crop with a guaranteed purchaser, not subject to market fluctuations in chicago or somehere. And they'll still be growing wheat. mark Greetings I would not think that it would be a form of mustard as there are (to date) no nitrogen fixing varieties of mustard and to do the bioengineering would mean that that this would be a genetically engineered crop - ergo - very very difficult to sell in today's markets!! Darald Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: new information on ethanol biodiesel process
Hey Ken, Have you done any testing with this? Or even heard of it? James Slayden On Fri, 14 Mar 2003, Keith Addison wrote: From: Murilo D. M. Innocentini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: new information on ethanol biodiesel process Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 14:58:26 -0300 Just to give new details about the ethanol biodiesel problem... A Brazilian Group has just claimed that they found a co-catalyst which combined with the traditional one gives a much better reaction efficiency, preventing any miscibility between glycerine and ethyl ester and facilitating the operational separation between both. They dont tell the secret, obviously, but claim that it is based on a very cheap clay-based material. Any ideas? Murilo Daniel Group of Engineering and Microstructure of Materials Department of Materials Engineering Federal University of Sao Carlos Via Washington Luiz, km 235 13565-905 Sao Carlos - SP - Brasil Tel. 00 55 16 260-8253 Fax. 00 55 16 261-5404 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: [biofuels-biz] ethanol biodiesel
And here is a testiment to Ken's process. I spent last saturday morning with Ken making a batch or methel-ethel-esters and it went just fine. The process is very low tech and although there are some specifics; no water in the oil or eth/meth, more KOH, titrated oil below 1ml, glyc remix. The process is very organic and can be done by anyone, so try not to think of this as some mystery conversion. Ken also has ways to massage batches that have some trouble with conversion with a methoxide 'kicker'. I think that the real important parts of doing a meth-eth conversion are as little water as possible (ie. boil off water), and low titration on the oil (ie. good oil). The batch we made titrated at .5 and was a mix of restaurant oil and crude olive oil. Ken showed me a batch of coconut-methel-ethel-esters which smelled like you could eat it (pinapple/coconut scent). It was just awesome! BTW, Follow the directions accurately, to the tee and don't add other process confusion into it. James Slayden On Thu, 13 Mar 2003, Ken Provost wrote: Murilo writes: The tips given by Ken Provost do not help a lot, since at the end even he says that it is like lottery (matter of good luck and fervent prayer). I cannot get reproducibility in my lab tests. Sometimes it works and sometimes not, as he said. The same recipe! 600 g refined oil (for soy oil, 0.2 acidic index) is firstly treated with1.5 g of CaCO3 at 120ºC and filtrated. Then 182 ml anhydrous ethanol previously mixed with 2.5 g NaOH is added to the oil. After 20 min mixing at 60ºC, 3.5g of NH4Cl is added (catalyst poison). Then filtration of the precipitate and addition of 17 ml of HCl (36%). Then settling for a couple of hours, separation and washing with water + bicarbonate. The authors say that the HCl acid is added to enhance settling of glycerol. I don't know the point of the calcium carbonate, or the ammonium chloride, or the hydrochloric acid -- I've never heard of using any of them in this way. The stated ratios of NaOH, alcohol, and oil seem about right for methanol, but I would use twice as much NaOH for ethanol, and KOH would be better still. All that said, I don't think I'd have much trouble with refined oil (what's acidic index mean in terms of % FFA?) and anhydrous ethanol. The problem comes when you try to use waste oil and ethanol that have water contamination. -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Hemp is not the myth that others would tend topropagate.
interesting, I was also thinking it looked like a mint. On Tue, 18 Mar 2003, kirk wrote: I don't think it is a hybrid. When I was a youngster our ranch house didn't have a well as we had a spring. We used to get monster stinging nettles at the overflow. I know, I had to scythe them. I am told the growing tips are one of the few vegetable sources of that B vitamin you normally only get from meat. Eat them raw. I don't experience any stinging from the tips. This hemp nettle looks like mint by the leaves. I think the word hemp got in there because it may have fibers. It has a little resemblance to the flowering stage (colas) of cannabis but still looks a lot different to me. Kirk -Original Message- From: bratt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 8:48 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hemp is not the myth that others would tend topropagate. I doubt if there would be any legal problems growing hemp-nettle. The hemp-nettle wouldn't contain any appreciable canabis resin, and probably does grow naturally in areas where hemp was once a field crop. I did not pay attention to the seed, whether it was oily, or abundant. Some areas in North Dakota and Minnesota still had wild hemp in the 1970's because a friend of mine used to go gathering it. He said it was left from the commercial crops. He moved away, retiring in the south, a few years ago. The growth of hemp-nettle I had, that was over 6 feet tall, was in a low lying part of my beach cottage grounds. It was growing in black loam, only a few inches deep, over yellow clay. It was sheltered by trees, and a bit damp. The clay is quite similar to the kind that adobe is made from in California. I am located 120 miles north of the US border, above northeast Montana. Ed - Original Message - From: Greg and April To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hemp is not the myth that others would tend to propagate. I wonder if this stuff can legally be grown in the US, it might provide a alternative to hemp ( seed oil and fiber ) if it can. Does anyone know? Greg H. - Original Message - From: bratt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 21:11 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Hemp is not the myth that others would tend to propagate. Hemp is a fairly close relative of the common nettle, and will cross with it in the wild. I have seen hemp-nettle grow to 6 feet. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.461 / Virus Database: 260 - Release Date: 3/10/2003 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [berkeleybiodiesel] [biofuel] crosspost schoolbus conversions (fwd)
Just crossposting. James Slayden -- Forwarded message -- Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2003 12:28:31 -0800 (PST) From: James Slayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [berkeleybiodiesel] [biofuel] crosspost schoolbus conversions (fwd) So, here is what I found out. The Certificate to haul waste grease (oil) is $100 per year for the 1st vehicle, and $75 for every vehicle there after. The certificate is annually renewable in January and you get both a certificate paper and a sticker for the vehicle. No hazzardous materials training is necessary. So, basically it's only if ya get caught oil diving where this would really be an issue. I'm sure that no one is going to stop ya and see what's in the 5 gal pails (or other container). It's more of a comfortability issue with those people who get nervous with legal issues. But, it might be good to get it to be on the safe side. James Slayden Yahoo! Groups Sponsor To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Your own Online Store Selling our Overstock. http://us.click.yahoo.com/rZll0B/4ftFAA/46VHAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Positions in biodiesel sales
I don't think that petrol people could do biodiesel justice. Interesting World's push now that there are two VERY large plants in the works out here (Cali). Maybe the thought of loosing market share is sending them to revamp their effort. ;-) Interesting they aren't seeking lower level positions to really get some BD sold to the folks that want it. Oh well, still the Fleet manager focus. James Slayden On Thu, 17 Apr 2003, girl_mark_fire wrote: I was laughing too, a little bitterly. Unfortunately they're trying to recruit one of these fine Petroleum people to come sell biodiesel in our area, Ken. it's heating up here for commercial biodiesel. mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mandatory skills include enthusiasm for product, excellent verbal and written persuasive abilities, meticulous follow-up and closing ability, creative problem-solving, as well as profound resourceful- ness, reliability and ambition. Petroleum business background and/or MBA considered favorably. I love it :-) !! This is the funniest thing I've seen in weeks (and it HASN'T been a funny few weeks!) Petroleum experience viewed favorably, experience brewing bioD in your garage IRRELEVANT, HA HA!. Oh the irony, the irony...Keep it coming! -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] U.S./california diesel options
Called and they documented my interest in the following: Passenger Diesel Hybrid SUV Diesel Hybrid Truck Diesel Hybrid It only takes a few minutes so I would encourage everyone to call. I also mentioned that I was calling from California, and I know they take interest in that as they sell lots of vehicles here. James Slayden On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, Sam Clarkson wrote: Hey folks, at the moment the only diesel passenger cars sold in the u.s. are german: Mercedes are cost prohibitive, and VWs are unreliable (consumer reports rates the passat as average reliability, and every other VW ispoor or Bad Volkswagen is through selling cars in california after this year, so every new tdi in the state is going for msrp or more, and most are already sold. Here's a little grassroots organization idea, as there are relatively no decent diesel passenger vehicles or small trucks in the U.S., take ten minutes to call toyota to request that they start importing their diesel engine to the states. it gets over fifty mpg in a camry sized car, and is a low emissions engine. everyone else in the world gets to drive it, why shouldn't we? I just called and said I'd buy a new prius if they sold one as a diesel. someone wrote it down. probably no effect, but if 1000 people did it toyota's comment # is 1800 331 4331 pass this on to your friends who are interested in biofuels. even if you can't afford a new car, they don't know that, and that means five and ten years down the road we will have used reliable cars around. ten minutes. we all know the frustration of trying to find a bio-rig do you really want a full sized truck that might get 20 mpg with the right gearbox? do you really want a 1982 isuzu with 25 miles on it? do you really want your kids in a old VW rabbit? call toyota if you can. thanks, sam Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Removing water from oil - was: steam versus oil heating for commercial plants
This is interesting because Ken P. boils off his water for his Eth/Meth process and has no issues with increased FFA's. Ken, maybe I missed something wilst I was over, so please correct me if that is the case. James Slayden On Sat, 24 May 2003, Keith Addison wrote: Hello Andreas, Bill Just to add that it can be difficult to remove the water content from animal fats in used oil. Andreas, you raise a good point with water-soluble contaminants (which can also throw out titration results). In some severe cases I've found it useful to wash the oil first - a hot bubblewash: heat the oil to about 70 deg C, add 50% of water at near boiling point, bubblewash for half an hour or longer while maintaining heat at 70 deg C, settle and cool, drain off water, then dry oil as usual. This has the advantage of removing the water-solubles, whereas, as you say, simply heating the oil to remove the water will leave them behind, and possibly some water with them. But it's quite energy-intensive. I like Girl Mark's advice here - find better oil! Bill, you are right (in principle) - allthough this process is dangerous because: - Water in oil can suddenly start boiling (like a mini-explosion) and spit oil around. To avoid this keep stirring the oil. - Water on the bottom (where it usually is because of the higher density) underlies a higher pressure then at the top - thus the boiling point rises according to the height of oil above. So the boiling point may not be 10 degrees Celsius but above. - If mixtures of water and other substances occur (in our case e.g. salt or sugar solved from the french fries etc.) the boiling point is significantly above 100 degrees. This and the fact that you need (some, not much) more energy to heat up to the boiling point you usually prefer to just heat the oil to 60 - 70 degrees and then wait for the water to separate (which it usually does in about the same amount as if you would boil it). If it does not, you will have the same problems removing it by vaporiszing because in this case the oil will be additionaly impurified with all the stuff that has been solved in the water and that's now left behind because the vapour is pure water... One point on energy use in comparing the two main dewatering methods is that heating to 60-70 deg C and settling loses the heat, whereas with boiling it off, while using lots of energy, you can at least catch it on the way down and start processing the oil once it's cooled to 55 deg C, saving some of the extra energy. But more heat carries the danger of creating more FFAs, which adds to boiling being the less preferred method. Hope this helps... Me too! :-) Best Keith Andreas Ohnsorge William Clark eufclarkTo: biofuel@yahoogroups.com @bellsouth.net cc: Subject: Re: [biofuel] steam versus oil heating for commercial plants 23.05.2003 04:21 Please respond to biofuel Hello Andreas, Perhaps you could help me with a chemistry question. When water boils, the temperature of a solution will not exceed 100 deg. C until all water is boiled off, correct? If oil containing water is heated, does this still apply? More to the point, can the absence of water be determined by a rise in oil temp beyond 100 deg. C? I truly have no clue if any of this is right. Your help or others would be most appreciated. Bill Clark snip Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Click Here! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: solar colector
Mark, If you can get your hands on a used trough solar collector (the kind used professionally to heat water to steam) that might be the best bet. Anyone have any experience with this, or know of a salvage place? James Slayden On Wed, 21 May 2003, girl_mark_fire wrote: Spent part of the morning out at our nice new big 'experimental' site (Team Canola, a not-very-official 'coop' of sorts), installed our first shiny new over- feature-ified 110 gallon processor, Yay! anyway it was blazing hot out there, just a few miles inland and it's about 10 degrees hotter than where I live. Made me think about getting more serious about the solar batch collector bit to at least take advantage of this - there were certainly a lot of BTU's diffusely floating down all over the place threatening me with skin cancer, and here I was slathered with sunscreen and installing a few kilowatts of electric heating (temporary). Batch solar box heater is a probably a bit undersized for what we have in mind, though. The start of the eventual real solar heated biodiesel project (ie with panel collectors, not the batch solar oven type heater) is building the backup gas heated system (we don't have a roof at this place so the backup heat comes before the roof and the panels). We'll probably have to 'bite the bullet' very soon and buy a cheap propane domestic water heater (I am cursed with the fact that I work at three biodiesel-making sites and at none of them can I run a natural gas line, yet every free heater I run across here is natural gas). I want to use the propane heater (or two?) to heat water as a heat exchange medium, then run that water into the manifold heat exchanger system I'd described, into the various tanks. (heat is mostly going for the processors of course, we'll have two processors since we're into ... you guessed it, acid- base, and the theory is that we'll eventually be doing two batches every time we go out there- one batch of acid and one batch of base, to compensate for the fact that commuting to make fuel is complicated and very simple processors are nearly free.. in fact we got an awesome donation of a stirred stainless steel 150-200 gallon tank, already containing a motor and agitation paddles installed, just needs insulation and heating to make big old batches). So I'm curious about steam and have a very basic question about it, in the application that Ken describes: Why is steam used for this application rather than hot water like I'm planning? is it because one can heat steam much hotter? thanks, mark -- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 0. I'd like to plumb my workshop with steam lines the way some shops are plumbed with compressed air. Then you could have some immersion coils and a few steam-jacketed kettles. Just hook up to the closest steam valve. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Click Here! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] food industry is full of fraud
Yep, that is why I am a Veggie ... On Thu, 12 Jun 2003, kirk wrote: Another good reason to be a vegetarian! Meat factory was 'rat-infested' The meat was fit only for pet food and fertilizer Tons of condemned poultry, unfit to be eaten by humans, were sold to major food manufacturers for five years, a court has heard. Nottingham Crown Court was told that millions of chicken and turkey carcasses, fit only for pet food or fertilizer, were distributed across the UK from a dilapidated, rat-infested factory in Derbyshire. It is alleged some of the chicken and turkey ended up in supermarkets, old people's homes and curry houses. The meat, often left exposed to the elements in giant skips, was sold to processing companies who marketed the food as fillets, goujons or mince. Significant risk The court was shown footage shot by police scenes-of-crimes officers that featured skips filled with rancid meat and the crude processing plant where the poultry was trimmed and packaged into crates and bags. Jurors also saw a pool of standing water in the middle of the factory, which was later discovered to contain raw sewage. Jurors heard evidence that Denby Poultry Products Limited, in Denby, Derbyshire, bought waste chicken from companies across the country for as little as £25 per ton and sold it as food at between £1,568 and £1,792 per ton. It was a most unhygienic set-up Ben Nolan Prosecutor Five men, three from the company and two who were customers, are on trial and deny a charge of conspiracy to defraud. Peter Roberts, 68, of Francis Street, Chaddesden, Derby, and Simon Haslam, 39 of Alder Road, Belper, Derbyshire along with Brian John Davies, 64, of Walmersley Road, Bury, Brian Paul Davies, 37, of Moor Road, Bury, and David Watson, 38, of Paxton Crescent, Bletchley, Buckinghamshire, are all alleged to have carried out the scam. Jurors were told that Mr Roberts had failed to appear at court and is being tried in his absence. Meat paste Jurors heard that the chicken waste was picked up from processing plants in maggot-infested vans and that the same, unrefrigerated vehicles were used to deliver the dressed and packaged poultry to customers. Ben Nolan QC, prosecuting said: It is a most unhygienic set-up. The buildings are dilapidated and in places open to the elements, said Mr Nolan. Companies who bought meat from Denby included food manufacturers in Milton Keynes, Northampton and Bury. Mr Nolan said that MK Poultry, in Northampton, used the chicken to produce a leading brand of meat paste and also for food supplied to care homes for the elderly. The court was told that another customer, B Davies Meats, in Bury, sold on the poultry to another leading supermarket chain and that a third firm, S J Watson, based in Milton Keynes, packaged the poultry to be sold at markets. The case continues. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: Diesel bikes - was Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1618
To be a beta tester, it will cost you $6,500 (ie, the price of the bike) and at the end of the testing period they will take it back and you will have to wait for a production bike. At least that is what they told me when I was going to apply. I decided not to, but others may be more interested. James Slayden On Sun, 22 Jun 2003, HempCycle Webmaster wrote: I don't know the status of the army bike, but eCycle is in the process of recruiting beta testers and raising the money to build a test run of 100 bikes. I'll be one of the beta testers, and I'll be using hempseed oil provided by Don Wirtshafter and processed into biodiesel by Todd Swearingen. Will Dwyer -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 1:11 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Diesel bikes - was Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1618 We have talked about this one before. And the all diesel motorcycle that the US army is putting through trials. Greg H. More details here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_bikes.html Diesel motorbikes What's the status of the army diesel bike, anybody know? Seems to have been testing for a long time. Same goes for the eCycle, still not in production AFAIK. Keith - Original Message - From: Mike Pelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2003 00:53 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1618 How about a 180 miles per gallon Diesel hybrid/electric motorcycle that goes 0 to 60 in 6 seconds and can do 80 miles per hour. Who ever said greeners can't have a good time? http://www.ecycle.com/powersports/hybrid.htm From Mike Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Biogas and glycerin - was To Chris problems sep. glycerine
here is some interesting info on Glycerine: http://www.indiainfoline.com/sect/chor/ch09.html James Slayden On Tue, 1 Jul 2003, Appal Energy wrote: Hi Maria, You bet I have some ideas on that thought. It wouldn't take much to put a few 5 gallon pails of the acidulated glycerin in the hands of some concrete finishers around here, some who still do wall pouring with wooden forms. A lot more attractive than watching them coat forms with fossil oils. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: girl_mark_fire [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 6:44 AM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Biogas and glycerin - was To Chris problems sep. glycerine Discussing the glycerol disposal 'problem' in class this weekend, we also wondered if it could be used to lubricate forms for pouring cement. I believe I was told that this is sometimes done commercially (I've never seen it myself) with purchased glycerine. This seems like a much better way to get rid of a huge quantity of the stuff than soapmaking for instance. Any ideas, anyone? I'd acidulate it first if I tried it. mark --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, pan ruti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello , dear and respected KEITH and TODD Well Thank you all, bringing the composting or biodigestion problems of cock tails or purified glycerin.I am pesonaly against treating glycerin as waste, but need to be treated as raw material for making soap, making polishing adhesivos pastes with glycerinated starch, cosmetics formulations after simple seperations outlined by Keith . These are possible to arrive at local market before thinking of disposal as waste . Our biofuel group need to also have think of bioproducts as future vision. Thus this liquid waste can be the raw material for the production of hih value biosurfactant and high valued yeast products Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Click Here! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] No need for conservation?
Hrmm, 50 - 70 mpg Hybrids .. Interestingly enough I was riding in a friends Prius just yesterday and the average MPH for the 180 mile round trip was 45.9 mpg. That included various grade climbs, including Altimont Pass. So, how far off is that from your projected 50-70 mpg. Not much, about 1.1 % for 50mpg. And we even gassed up at a 76 station that uses 10% ethanol. I seriously don't think that even a diesel truck (or SUV) running on B100 getting 20 (or less) mpg could do better in consumption or emissions, only the TDI running B100 besting this. Now when diesel hybrids and high milage diesels come out int the US, that will be a different story. Some people like the convience of the Prius. My friend being a woman over the age of 50 and not interested in making her own B100 fuel, can pretty much anywhere with her Prius and gas up. She is doing her part for not being on the fringe, a B100 geek, or having her lifestyle impacted. I applaud her decision to take a chance on a new technology, helping the evironment, and using a bio-blended fuel. I'm sure when B100 becomes ubiquitous at the pump everywhere, then she might just think about getting that TDI or Lupo (we can hope). Until then, I have the feeling that the masses can and will make this jump to an intermediate solution that serves their lifestyle. For me, I am a fringe person anyway so the choice is clear. :) James Slayden On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, Tim Castleman wrote: First off, many thanks for the correction on the capacity of a barrel, which in fact could be anywhere from 31 to 42 gallons liquid, but then even that actual amount could change somewhat if we consider Imperial gallons rather than US. There is a variety of barrels established by law or usage. For example, federal taxes on fermented liquors are based on a barrel of 31 gallons; many state laws fix the barrel for liquids at 31 ½ gallons; one state fixes a 36 gallon barrel for cistern measurement; federal law recognizes a 40-gallon barrel for proof spirits; by custom, 42 gallons comprise a barrel of crude oil or petroleum products for statistical purposes, and this equivalent is recognized for liquids by four states. ( http://www.apparelsearch.com/capacity_volume.htm ) However, other than pointing out my error, that contribution doesn't do much to help answer the question, which was, do we have enough farmland to produce enough biofuel, without reducing demand? Your points about extrusion making oilseed meal digestible are also interesting, but really, who do you know that actually eats extruded oilseed meal (or any other meal) without some sort of at least semi-industrial scale processing? Even livestock gets to have some other stuff added in to the actual feedcake, such as hay, molasses or whatever. A freshly extruded bowl of oilseed meal just doesn't make it to my menu. You also make an excellent point about the obscene waste of front and back yards to NOT produce food. I agree, it is insane to water and fertilize a grass lawn, only to mow it down every Saturday, using a gross polluter! Nevertheless, that IS what people do. Folks just don't grow their own food. I share the vision of one of our founding fathers, Thomas Jefferson, for an agrarian society, despite your accusation to the contrary. I also recognize that folks have always 'gone to market' to get the food they could not produce themselves. It would even be unfair to require everyone to produce their own food or starve, wouldn't you agree? I mean some are just old, or perhaps busy teaching school, or building community structures, or producing a newspaper or performing whatever service to the community and need others to pick up the slack and help them with their food supply, in exchange for their services. So there will always be centralized production, at least on some scale, right? I completely agree the industrial grade agribusiness a la ADM/Cargill/Monsanto is clearly doing more harm than good, and we do need more local production - but just how do you propose we will get there? I don't see that happening. There are, and have been for years, many small farm cooperatives a la http://www.csacenter.org/index.html people can participate in, but THEY DON'T. It is just easier, and more cost effective, to visit the local supermarket and get dinner. So, while the vision of individual families independently producing everything they need, with no reliance on industry, seems quite romantic, in reality it just doesn't work. Take one simple thing for example, barbed wire. Who would consider running a ranch or farm without it? But realistically, there must be a steel foundry to produce the steel to make the wire, and another industrial process to twist it into its final form. Or would you propose the local blacksmith should take those tasks on? I would suggest that even if he were willing to, the final cost would exceed its value
Re: [biofuel] Researchers find new metal combination forcheaperproduction of hydrogen as fuel
I really like the idea of producing H2 and Meth that this method proposes. It would be a great source of Bio-Methanol for other processes as well as supplying H2 for various applications (think stationary fuel cells for backup power generation). James Slayden On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Greg and April wrote: True, but, this method also gives of CO2 as well as the H2. These two together, are precursors for Methanol which is a basic feedstock for many of the common chemicals made / used today, in the petrochemical industry. With the right catalyst, H2 and CO2 can be made into a multitude of different products ( including gasoline ). I know, I said the bad G word, but, let's face it, this world is not going to get of it's habit over night. One thing about this method, is that by altering the metal catalyst a bit, you produce CH4 -- methane, which is another petrochemical feedstock, as well as the H2 and CO2. I think that in the future, that if any petrochemical wants to truly be green, this might be one of the way they will do it, for their raw feedstock. Ethanol has a few things that detract from it as a feedstock, namely a higher carbon to hydrogen ratio, not much, but, enough to cause an increase in cost, of manufacture, because of the need to do something with it, be it getting rid of it or collecting it for other purposes. Another problem with ethanol, is it's affinity for water, the added cost of denaturing, and the denaturing materials themselves, all of which may be unsuitable for feedstock purposes. On the other hand, the CO2 and H2 or the CO2, H2, and CH4 ( depending on the catalyst and what the final product is to be ) would be a good starting feedstock. Greg H. - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 23:24 Subject: Re: [biofuel] Researchers find new metal combination forcheaperproduction of hydrogen as fuel Greg and April wrote: True, but, this speeds the process, way up from what I understand. Greg H. I ran an experiment with anaerobic hydrogen production from a sugar solution many years ago. It works just like methanogenesis. If you want more hydrogen, or want it in a hurry, build a larger digester. . . I abandoned the project because fermentation into ethanol produces a fuel that is much easier to handle. There's a bit less energy involved in hydrogen production, but the need for gas compression narrows that gap considerably. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] No need for conservation?
I agree that B100 in any application is a great idea, but most people are just not there yet, nor are there the clean high milage diesels in any great numbers in the US (but we can hope on the Lupo!!). Personally I am waiting for the diesel Jeep Liberty this fall. James Slayden On Thu, 3 Jul 2003, Ken Provost wrote: On Thursday, July 3, 2003, at 10:40 AM, James Slayden wrote: I seriously don't think that even a diesel truck (or SUV) running on B100 getting 20 (or less) mpg could do better in consumption or emissions, only the TDI running B100 besting this. Now when diesel hybrids and high milage diesels come out int the US, that will be a different story. My main concern has always been CO2 rather than emissions, in keeping with the view that humans get what's coming to them if they choose to live in cities, whereas CO2 (yes,yes, I know about acid rain :-)) affects the whole planet. In that sense, crappy biodiesel mileage can still be better than good petro mileage -K Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Click Here! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Get A Free Psychic Reading! Your Online Answer To Life's Important Questions. http://us.click.yahoo.com/Lj3uPC/Me7FAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] Power plant uses coal, grass
There was a pilot project several years back that was in a midwestern state with good emission reductions. There also is a company that makes switchgrsss pellets for pellet stoves, just can't find it now. James Slayden On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, murdoch wrote: http://www.augustachronicle.com/stories/070603/met_energy3.shtml Interesting comments about switchgrass, project results. Also, the comments of the International Paper person were interesting to me. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sOykFB/k9VGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] A thought on Hydrogen vs. Ethanol vs. Whatever
It also seems to me that Ethanol could be used is a mixed spark/EV Hybrid as a single fuel source. This could also be said of straight Hydrogen, with without the headache. Something that an interrim solution could met out. James Slayden On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, robert luis rabello wrote: murdoch wrote: Ethanol is produced, distributed and sold in virtually every nation on earth. It is easy to do, and operates under some severe restrictions in some countries, ostensibly because it can be sold as a drug (i.e. alcohol). This is a serious impediment. Ethanol is the easiest renewable fuel to convert for an externally mixed, spark ignited engine. I'm confident that with high pressure fuel injection, it would be even easier. The legal paranoia about non taxed ethanol sales leads to some very restrictive legislation. Here in Canada, it is illegal to own and operate an ethanol still as an individual. If I own a company, I can apply for a permit, but it can never be sold or dismantled without permission. What I wish to examine is whether a commonly available and easily produced chemical such as ethanol (or methanol, or any of a variety of chemicals) wouldn't be, in some ways and cases, superior to Hydrogen. In my view, and I have been a hydrogen fuel enthusiast for many years, is that ethanol beats hydrogen as a transportation fuel hands down. It's easier and cheaper to produce. It's easier and safer to handle, and it requires significantly fewer engine modifications than hydrogen. Getting around the legal issues is ethanol's biggest hurdle. I wonder if Hydrogen is being suggested as a sort of cure-all for World Energy storage and conversion in part because it is a solution which favors larger businesses and the like rather than at-home producers and distributors and users. In the case of Mr. Bush's proposal, I think you're bang on. However, hydrogen CAN be produced at home with relatively simple and inexpensive equipment. Storage is a serious issue that has to be dealt with wisely. I was trying to envision someone living on a few acres with a year-round stream. Could they make and store and use their own hydrogen? Yes, if the creek had enough volume and vertical fall. Would it be easier to do this with ethanol or some other more-common and more easily handled chemical? I think so. As we go forward, devices are being researched with great earnestness that will allow the everyday person to manufacture and store hydrogen, hopefully without too much fanfare. Good. That Hydrogen can readily be used in fuel cells seems to not be in doubt. The need for hydrogen stems from the fact that all bets seem to be on proton exchange membranes for fuel cells. This technology requires very pure hydrogen. Right now, the best fuel cells are running in the 30% efficiency range on pure hydrogen. A decent diesel engine beats this hands down, represents a significantly lower capital investment and is mature technology ready for use right now. Further, less than completely pure hydrogen could be run in a modified spark ignited engine, and if that engine is designed intelligently, its efficiency would exceed that of a fuel cell--and again, for a LOT less money. Less than completely pure hydrogen can be derived from steam reformed wood gas. For stationary applications in areas with excess biomass, this approach makes a lot of sense and effectively eliminates storage concerns. I'm very skeptical of the current administration's drive for hydrogen. But I wonder if the same level of earnestness is being put into researching fuel cells that could more easily use already-easily-produceable chemicals such as ethanol. I have seen little or no evidence of this. A few years ago, I attended an investment seminar in this area. A gentleman designed an ethanol fuel cell around a monopole motor, with a clever centrifugal mechanism for removing the waste chalk. This idea could be coupled with an electric drive train to eliminate range concerns with battery electric vehicles. As far as I know, the ethanol fuel cell idea didn't pan out--not because it wasn't a good idea, but because everyone was so afraid of monopole motors (which are supposed to be inefficient, I've heard) the company couldn't raise enough money to move forward. All of the stories I've seen which suggest an attempt to use non-Hydrogen alternatives in fuel cells seem to focus on those fuels which are presently products of the fossil fuel industry (natural gas, gasoline) and which are not quite as readily produced or handled or stored at home. There's a reason for that. . . This is a sloppy hypothesis, and I do not suggest it will hold up firmly, but when we consider the present hurdles to the everyday guy making and storing and using his own H2, I had to wonder out
[biofuel] RE: Question about the Process Flowchart (fwd)
An interesting sumation of what some of the soy BD producers are doing with their FFA co-product. Who woulda guessed .. Better living through Bovine FFA recycling. James Slayden -- Forwarded message -- Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 11:29:12 -0500 From: Ron Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'James Slayden' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Question about the Process Flowchart James, The FFA's are a coproduct of manufacturing Biodiesel. We transesterify the soy oil to make methyl esters. The FFA we have is because of the oil having about 1% FFA. We sell the FFA to people that are interested. Generally it goes to an animal feed outfit. Ron -Original Message- From: James Slayden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 12:23 PM To: Ron Brown Subject: Question about the Process Flowchart Hello Ron, I was recently perusing the REG webpage and have a question about the process flowchart. It indicates that one of the by-products is FFA's. Was this due to Glyc purification or some other process? What are the installed facilities doing with the FFA's? Thanks, James Slayden Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy No Snore Get a Good Night's Sleep. Natural Oral Spray -- $24.95 (1 bottle, 1 month supply, with sweet almond oil, eucalyptus oil more). http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2881lp=h515.html http://us.click.yahoo.com/2oMABA/nuYGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: caches of filtered WVO - was Re: Digest Number 1657
hrmm, it seems to me that Jerry wants one to lead him to water .. Well Jerry, here is the scoop: search, search, search. There are really no BIG caches of WVO to be had, unless you know a chip, taco shell, or other fried food producer. Most often they will have a contract with a renderer, so it may be diffucult to get free WVO, although it can happen with some tanacity. As for small caches of WVO, lots exist; they are called Restaurants. I lowest titrating ones I found seem to be the upscale, Chinese food, and Sushi joints (really clean oil!!). They usually titrate around 2ml. I actually work with the restaurant and supply them 5 gal buckets so that the oil I am getting is directly from the fryer and has no trap grease from the grill. They are VERY happy to work with ya cause they don't want to pay the renderer. I would try to stay away from chains as they are less interested in setting aside the oil for you. Good luck! James Slayden On Sat, 19 Jul 2003, Keith Addison wrote: What happened to a discussion list focused on caches of filtered WVO? That's what I joined this list for, but I'm ready to leave because I have to read through so many post titles (never mind the lengthy posts themselves), to find something on topic. Jerry Hello Jerry You complain about having to read through so many post titles but you send a message titled Re: [biofuel] Digest Number 1657? That doesn't help a lot, and it also makes the archives much more difficult to use. If you're replying to a Digest, please give it a relevant subject heading. Anyway, it averages about 20 messages a day, I don't think it can be such a huge strain to scan through 20 subject headings a day, especially as you get the digest and it's all there for you right at the top in a numbered list. I don't know where you might find a discussion list focused on caches of filtered WVO. Caches of filtered WVO? I can't even figure out what that means. This is a biofuels discussion list, it's focused on that. Biofuels is a very wide-ranging subject and there are members here from more than a hundred countries, what's on-topic or not is a matter of widely varying opinion. In other words it's all on-topic, it depends who you are. Sometimes indeed it does go right off-topic, but it never goes too far, and it's been found many times that what might appear at first to be digressions end up yielding on-topic information that would not otherwise have arisen. As for *your* particular topic, well, you've been here for more than a year and this is your first post. If you want information why don't you ask? If you want a discussion on a topic that interests you, start one. Best Keith Addison List owner Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy No Snore Get a Good Night's Sleep. Natural Oral Spray -- $24.95 (1 bottle, 1 month supply, with sweet almond oil, eucalyptus oil more). http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2881lp=h515.html http://us.click.yahoo.com/2oMABA/nuYGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] ASTM Fuel
Capstone power generation turbines can run on biodiesel, so I assume that the mod for jet engines wouldn't be that difficult. http://www.microturbine.com/technology/specsheets.asp James Slayden On Tue, 5 Aug 2003, Keith Addison wrote: That's GREAT news!!! Well done! Multiple :-) 's! Jack, remind me please - which process are you using? And what are your plans now you've made the grade? Jet engines... rings a vague bell, but I don't know. Interesting. All best Keith Hey All - just thought I would let you all know that I just received my results from the ASTM tests and we passed all categories. Just another good example of a homebrewer in a remote setting (Bahamas) making spec-grade biofuel! One other question: has anyone ever done any testing for using biodiesel in a jet engine? Jet fuel is so close to diesel fuel, I was wondering if anyone had done the research. Thanks. Jack Jack Kenworthy Sustainable Systems Director The Cape Eleuthera Island School 242-359-7625 ph. 954-252-2224 fax www.islandschool.org Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/sO0ANB/LIdGAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: [biofuels-biz] Brine wash to dry WVO?
I think this is done on a commercial scale to decrease FFA's crude VO. Anyone have some insite into that? James Slayden On Fri, 8 Aug 2003, Keith Addison wrote: Sounds like an interesting idea, anybody tried it, or heard of it being done? Tim wrote to me direct, he's not a list member, though I suggested he join, so you might cc any responses to him. Best Keith From: Tim Desson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: biodiesel Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2003 08:07:43 + Dear Keith, just been reading about the fantastic biodiesel stuff on the web! I'm going to give the foolproof process a go (when my broken collar bone mends!) I was wondering if a brine wash has been tried to dry the WVO before transesterification (I'm a research chemist, and this is often done on wet solutions of organic solvents to dry them, the water in the fat gets salted out ) I look forward to hearing from you Tim Desson Wokingham, UK Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://webconx.green-trust.org/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] good diesel to buy
and on that note, I have a friend that is still trying to sell both a rabbit and mercedes. Included are the specs. James Slayden - 1981 Rabbit 149K miles $2100 OBO 5 spd w/ large engine (1.9Ltr ??), 4 dr, tan color in/out. New motor mounts, shocks, tires, paint, interior. Runs Great. -- 1983 Mercedes SD Turbodiesel211K miles $3800 OBO Silver w/ blue interior New paint, valve job, tires. Sun roof, A/C. Runs great and looks great. -- Both will need Vitron fuel lines and a cheap fuel line filter to run biodiesel. My friend who is selling the vehicles is Lee and his number is 408-297-2961 On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Gunilla, Jens Bent Haagerup wrote: A rabbit. Mccall Tom WP US wrote: What would be a good diesel to buy, make and model for Biod. For SVO? Tom Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Oil depletion and Global warming
Hakan, Interesting I always wondered why that wasn't addressed. Seems to me that surface temp is a very important quotant, considering the global deforestation issue. James On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, Hakan Falk wrote: I read the article about oil depletion based on research by Prof. Aleklett, that MM published on EV world. Thought it was interesting and downloaded the research paper and looked at it. It is very interesting and you can download it from Aleklett's home page at, http://www.isv.uu.se/uhdsg/ It is the PDF files at the links for, http://www.isv.uu.se/UHDSG/OilIPCC/IntroPDF.pdfIntroduction http://www.isv.uu.se/UHDSG/OilIPCC/Part1PDF.pdfPart 1 http://www.isv.uu.se/UHDSG/OilIPCC/Part2PDF.pdfPart 2 http://www.isv.uu.se/UHDSG/OilIPCC/ResultsPDF.pdfResults http://www.isv.uu.se/UHDSG/OilIPCC/ConclusionsPDF.pdfDiscussion and Conclusions Apart from the faster depletion, which is very worrisome, the good news is that it is not enough fossil resources for worst case scenario of Global warming trough Green house gases. Personally I agree with Michael Allen that only greenhouse gases might be a simplified opinion. I think that the average change in the heat absorption coefficient for the earth surface could even be a more important factor. Hakan ** If you want to take a look on a project that is very close to my heart, go to: http://energysavingnow.com/ http://hakan.vitools.net/ My .Net Card http://hakan.vitools.org/ About me http://vitools.com/ My webmaster site http://playa.nu/ Our small rental activities ** No flag is large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people -- Howard Zinn Nobody grows old merely by living a number of years. We grow old by deserting our ideals. Years may wrinkle the skin, but to give up enthusiasm wrinkles the soul. - Samuel Ullman Democracy is the worst possible system, except for all the others. - Churchill Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] BP says new fuels will cut emissions
I also use the 76 station 87 octane for my truck. You can actually smell the alcohol in the fuel (at least I can) when you pump up. I don't get the same smell of alcohol at other stations. James Slayden On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, murdoch wrote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 02:16:55 +0900, you wrote: http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/22492/story.htm BP says new fuels will cut emissions UK: October 9, 2003 LONDON - BP BP.L launched a new set of motor fuels this week that it said would deliver better engine performance while also cutting down on emissions of harmful pollutants, enabling the oil major to step up its battle for market share of higher value petrol and diesel. This is sort of interesting. One of the things that sticks in my mind is the hisory, as recounted in Doyle's Taken For A Ride, that the Big Oil companies would introduce some new RFG that would burn cleaner and better, if and when pressed by seemingly impending mandates to come up with cleaner gas or cars. I'm not saying I see that happening here. I just like following developments and improvements in fuels. If BP comes up with better fuels, then great. Over the last year or so I usually by 87 Octane at 76 stations because they've been remarkably clear in their promotions against MTBE (virtually every station seems to have a very large sign proclaiming no MTBE) and they may (or may not) have ethanol in their fuel, according to their pumps. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] small diesel engines made in US for passenger cars?
I noted somewhere that Feel Good Cars offered a diesel ZENN in Europe. Can anyone confirm this? James Slayden On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, murdoch wrote: We discussed some of the very few diesel options out there available to the U.S. consumers buying passenger cars (such as the VW TDI). As we project some increase in US consumers driving diesels (such as when Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel becomes more available) I was wondering as to how it's going to be accomplished for more manufacturers to offer diesel passenger vehicles. Of the U.S. manufacturers, are there any who have maintained production or any expertise in this area? Even some of their pickup truck diesel capabilities seem to be imported (Isuzu-manufactured engines in GM trucks, or just Isuzu technology contributions?). There do seem to be respectable diesel-pickup truck offerings from various manufacturers. I don't know any of the answers to these matters just wondering a few things. We have discussed that diesel engines were projected into the PNGV prototypes, but those prototypes seem to have been mothballed with such extreme prejudice that I don't know what could be produced within the next few years. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] small diesel engines made in US for passenger cars?
10-20 miles?! I like the figures on CalCars that dictate 30-60 . Now that would have me instantly interested! James Slayden On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, murdoch wrote: On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:34:32 -0700, you wrote: I would expect to see the first moves from Chrysler, especially now that they have merged with Mercedes Benz. The Jeep Liberty, for example, will be available soon with a diesel here in the U.S.. Since most of the recent techno-car-babble revolves around hybrids, and Toyota has a clear advantage, I wouldn't be surprised to see Chrysler enter the market with a diesel hybrid. Such a move would undoubtedly make people take notice, especially if such a vehicle could be made to go 80 miles on a gallon...a whopping 30 more than a gasoline hybrid. We can all hope, right? :) Ryan Absolutely. That would be awesome. And a grid-chargeable diesel-hybrid, operable in EV-only mode for 10 or 20 miles... man-oh-man. You'd have the best of many worlds. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Hydrogen as a Fuel for Automobiles
I think that the beauty of the Ovonic system is that it uses process heat to release the H2 from the storage tanks. The heat generated either from an H2 ICE or a FC could also help with this: http://www.ovonics.com/res/2_4_solid_hydrogen/solid_hydrogen.htm My gut tells me that although pressurized lightweight tanks are fairly safe these days (see NGV lightweight vehicle tanks), there is what I call the Hindenburg perception of gaseous hydrogen storage, even though that was proven a falsity. Liquid H2 storage is too difficult to implement and maintain so that will be weeded out fairly quickly. Another plus of the metal-hydride storage is the higher energy density. That will also be a factor in what form H2 storage will occur in vehicles. James Slayden On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Hakan Falk wrote: MM, Formation and reformation of hydrogen/whatsoever combinations as storage techniques are obviously the way to go forward. It is however a storage process that in itself require energy and I have not yet seen any substantial discussions of the energy costs for this. The energy has to come from somewhere. We have so many times agreed that hydrogen is a storage technology, if generated from renewable sources, and now we are talking about storage technologies of the storage technology. We need overall comparable figures, viability analysis and costs. We also need to know where the energy should be originating from, because this is an open question that everybody seems to do almost anything to avoid. We have a major energy supply problem ahead of us, not a major energy storage problem. Hakan At 01:51 PM 10/21/2003, you wrote: This article assumes onboard pressurized storage. It should at least mention the future possibility of Liquid H2 (such as BMW has been working on) or metal hydride storage) such as Ovonic seems to have implemented with a modified Prius: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031020/dem017_1.htmlhttp://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/ 31020/dem017_1.html As always, I'm not advocating these solutions, just mentioning them. I tend to think a chemical solution (such as carrying H2 in molecules of C2H5OH) will continue to be the solution of choice for many. On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:37:59 +0200, you wrote: Although I can see large advantages in hydrogen as storage in stationary power generation and military mobile applications, I see that it is going to take a long time before we see the hydrogen economy for propelling transport in general. Hydrogen as a Fuel for Automobiles http://energy.saving.nu/hydrogen/hydrogenstorage.shtmlhttp://energy.sav ing.nu/hydrogen/hydrogenstorage.shtml Hydrogen as a Fuel for Automobiles By mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Carl Johnson, BA Physics, Univ of Chicago, http://mb-soft.com/public2/index.htmlhttp://mb-soft.com/public2/index.htmlI dex of Public Service Pages. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: Weekend fire destroys backyard biodiesel operation
Hrmm, http://www.thoughtsnmemories.net/bioschema.htm Looking at Tom's Plant Schema and not knowing how far the dewatering unit is from the processor, I would say that if he didn't have a sealed processor (although it does kinda look like he has one in the schema) there might be some issues, especially if he got the oil up past meth fuming point. It's difficult to tell how Tom has his processor set up without physically seeing it. Lemme check his site for pics. Whoops!! Now I see the problem: http://www.yellowbiodiesel.com/factory.htm Looks like an open processor to me!! Bad idea Tom. Also looking at the processor and the way the electric motor stirrer is sitting, it could be a spark accident waiting to happen (which it may have ). Do we know of any accidents with sealed/pump processors? There was a similar accident to Tom's out here in Cali, which I couldn't accurate info on it (even though I knew the person buying the BD from the accident victim). I think that some mistakes just want to be covered up. So, for all of you newbies (realitive newbies) out there this should be a lesson to you, DO NOT USE AN OPEN TOP PROCESSOR!! Even if your not using a pump, you can have a closed system (ask Mark or Biosmell how!!), not only is it better for fire safety, but also for chemical inhalents during the processing. Tom, really sorry to hear that your going to give up, but if you saw one of Mark's sealed processors, you might change your mind. :( And I hope that your recovery is going well. :) James Slayden ** sealed and safe even at 5 gal processing ** On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Dan Maker wrote: I'm looking for an alternative source for that article but in the meantime a google search turns up all kinds of hits on Tom: http://www.google.com/search?q=Tom+Leuesourceid=operanum=0ie=utf-8oe=utf-8 I used my spam address to gain access to the site, and the full contents of the original article have already been posted to the list. You don't miss anything by not registering. Dan Appal Energy said: http://www.projo.com/ap/ma/103231.htm This ain't a good source for the article!!! SOBs ask for more damned personal data than a group of flight sturgeons pouring over an astronaut returning from Mars. Not worth the invasion of privacy just to read the article. Any other route would be appreciated. Todd Swearingen -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs Online - Over 14,500 titles. No Late Fees Free Shipping. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vhSowB/XP.FAA/3jkFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] UCSC Biodiesel program update
Aaron, Have you checked out the following for process heat: http://www.freeheatmachine.com/ James Slayden On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Aaron F. Wieler wrote: On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, shawstafari wrote: Aaron, any word on the program at Hampshire? Recommendations from the CU Biodiesel peeps? Recommendations? Regards, Dave at hampshire: we're waiting on a $500 US grant from the school to build the processor. Receiving the money does not mean they'll let us have the processor on campus. Ashfield, where Tom Leu just had the fire, is only a few towns away from hampshire, which is in amherst, MA. Some people here know Tom, even took a field trip to see his processor, and we've been working to assure people that our processor will not have the same risks. we were thinking about trying to set up a heat exchanger from a wood stove in the same shack, which would be the only heating system for the reactor and oil/fuel storage area, but it sounds like we should have no sparks anywhere near the processor, if not for real safety concerns then for leverage to assure the college administration that we're legitimate. It will help to have a chemistry professor on our side too. We're working on that this week. dave, i'll keep you posted about progress. -aaron Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs from home. Over 14,500 titles. Free Shipping No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ybSovB/hP.FAA/3jkFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Separating glycerin and FFA's ( continued )
It sounds like a reprocess would be in order to see if he gets a two layer seperation. If you get a good two layer seperation, then your proportions are truely off. Keith, I think your right in doing a water wash test w/ 50%water, 50%biodiesel and seeing how much emulsion forms, and if it even seperates within a good timeline. I have found that a good reaction will seperate within an hour on a water wash test. You should see a milky white layer (soaps in water) on the bottom, and a somewhat clear golden (or lighter/darker) layer on top. If the whole thing looks like a orangish (or yellowish) milky bile then you have some serious emulsion problems indicating an incomplete reaction. Go back and reprocess and then try the test again. Good luck! James Slayden On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, Keith Addison wrote: Hi Pieter Hi Keith, I don't know for sure whether it is FFA's or something else ( BD ? ), but the color is black and the BD is goldish, so I think it must be FFA's. But the proportions are really all wrong. Still, it probably is FFA, but that you can't get it to separate more than that, with only so little FFA and no separation of the glycerine and catalyst, indicates that something else is wrong. Your conclusion that the by-product is almost 100% glycerine can't be right, your previous expectations (at least half) should be about right. How do you know it's FFAs? The glycerine layer can continue to leak small amounts of biodiesel for some time after the process. I expected at least half of the lot being FFA's, so I have been looking for the separation at about 50% of the volume. I don't find any NaOH at the bottom. My conclusion is, that the bottomlayer of the BD process is almost 100% glycerine. I'm afraid I'm left wondering quite what the top layer might be, considering what follows. I use 3.5 grams of lye and 150 ml methanol in the process and do not titrate. Not enough lye for WVO and 25ml excess methanol (12.5% stoich for soy) is unlikely to be enough, especially at such low temps for only three hours. The mixing takes two or three hours, just to make sure that the whole reaction has taken place. Hm. Temperature is 15° C or a bit more. 40 more would be better. The oil I use is WVO ( soya ), which has been used for one or two days That doesn't mean much Pieter, it could be lightly used or very heavily used. Used for how many hours, at what temperature? The oil has been used for about 20 hours all together at 140° C. In which case the basic 3.5 gm/litre of lye is definitely not enough. You should try titrating it, it's not very difficult and it would tell you a lot. Lots of info on titration here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html Start here: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo Then see: Basic titration http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#titrate Better titration http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#bettertitrate Do you test the WVO for water content, by the way? Put a litre in a saucepan and heat it on a stove; stir it and monitor the temperature; if it starts crackling and emitting little streams of bubbles from the bottom at about 50-55 deg C it should be dewatered. If not, no problem. to bake fish in. So it also has some fish oil in it. After processing, I let it stand for a week or more. Before separating the biodiesel from the glycerin layer? Or do you remove the glycerine layer first? What proportion of the total is the glycerine layer? Is it usually solid or liquid? What colour? I don't separate BD and glycerin layer. I just siphon ( is that the right word ? ) The right word, and the right technique too - when you drain from the bottom the biodiesel gets drained past any residual by-product still adhering to the lower walls and bottom and can reabsorb it. It will settle to the bottom again, but siphoning from the top is best. the BD from the top of the lot, every time I need some BD, untill I reach the bottom. I think you may have said so before, but how long does that take? How often do you make biodiesel, and what size batches? Settling it for a long time definitely helps. The glycerin layer is about 15% of the total volume. I think that's about right for quite clean oil using more methanol than you do. In your case it might be too little. Titration would help to confirm that. Not really solid and not liquid. Somewhere inbetween solid and liquid. The color is black. After treating it whith phosphoric acid, the color turns a little bit lighter. The color of the top layer is black. I don't wash the BD ( not that I recommend this way of working, but in my case it works OK ). The pH of the BD is just over 7. Have you ever tried washing your biodiesel? I'd be interested to know what happens. Will you try
Re: [biofuel] filtering process
Todd, Are you allowing the BD to settle up over that time, or are you doing meth recovery as soon as the drum is filled? I was wondering how people were dealing with the meth recovery on a smallish level. I will be getting some plans for a solar still using 55gal drums and I am wondering if that will be useful for glyc meth recovery. James Slayden On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Appal Energy wrote: Doug, In response to what type of filter is best to use in your quest? The simplest and least expensive (more often than not) is time. Time as a filter?? A good bit of glycerin can remain solute in biodiesel, as can much biodiesel remain solute in the glycerin cocktail, long after a substantial waiting period. Hence the need to wash the biodiesel and the wise choice of aggregating the glycerin cocktail batch after batch, letting the remaining fraction of biodiesel settle up over time. What you might expect out of 55 gallons of glycerin cocktail over a two week period of time is a settling up of perhaps 4-5 gallons of biodiesel. Nature (gravity) is a pretty good filter in this case, if you can afford her the storage capacity and time. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Doug L [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 1:25 PM Subject: [biofuel] filtering process We have succeeded in our first batch and all is running well. We seperated the biodiesel from the glycerine the day after the reaction and then found that there was still lots of seperating to occur. We are getting down to the end of the batch and finding that the fuel is mixed with quite a bit of glycerine and needs some serious filtering. We have tried a 10 micron filter and a big cone filter with cloth filters. These do not seem do be doing the job. We need something that will do a good job filtering in an efficient amount of time. Any suggestions? Doug Loewen Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Converting to FFV
I was talking to my friend at Anderson Performance here locally and we were basically discussing the jet metering that goes on in an FFV due to the viscosity sensor. He was ruminating about some of the other peices that will need to come together to get the whole conversion correct; re-chipped to allow for variable timing, etc ... On the surface it seems simple, but then the devil is in the details. James Slayden On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, shawstafari wrote: I have a 2003 Toyota Sequoia. I want to convert it to a Flex Fuel Vehicle(FFV). Which will use the E85 as well as normal gasoline. David, It is unfortunate that Toyota does not yet make FFVs available from the factory. Ford, GM, Isuzu and Mercedes do, but not Toyota. As far as converting your Sequoia (I always hated that they took our sacred tree and named a gas guzzler after it), you can convert it to run solely on ethanol, and than switch it back to gasoline when/if you need to. To make it flexible or dual fueled is a bit more involved (and less in some ways). That would require a fuel controller with enough capacity to hold data tables (for fuel/air mixture, timing, etc.) for all the different mixtures of gasoline and ethanol. Do such third-party controllers exist? What is the FFV controller like that comes stock from the dealer? Dave Shaw Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs from home. Over 14,500 titles. Free Shipping No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/ybSovB/hP.FAA/3jkFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] forest fires and using wood biomass as fuel
One wood fuel that I could think of as being a fire hazzard up here in NorCal is Manzanita(sp). It grows like weeds and in a forest fire the roots continue to burn. It has no value as either a construction wood nor is it a good wood for a wood stove as it burns too hot. James Slayden On Sat, 1 Nov 2003, murdoch wrote: The one I heard about was in Oroville, CA, USA (1 hour or so North of Sacramento) and it came up because I was talking with someone about home ownership there and fire concerns, among other things. He said that if you owned a bit of land, there were a couple of options as to keeping your land clear of debris. He pointed out to me a bit of wood that was of a certain type, and mentioned that it wasn't much good for firewood (BTU too low or something) and also was not much good for building (not at all strong enough) but that with the advent of this device into their community, homeowners now had a clear place to get rid of this wood. He said that, at this point, the machines and trucks which would come out to your place to cut and haul the wood would spend the night at or near this incineration facility, because this process of going to your house and then to the facility was firmly established. On Sat, 1 Nov 2003 09:51:42 -0800 (PST), you wrote: When you figure in the cost to fight forest fires and to rebuild after, biomass turned into electricity costs are looking better all the time. Not to mention, that if burned properly, atmospheric pollution could be greatly minimized, which would also lower health costs. I doubt if anyone will get subsidised for cleaning up the forests but, it is a good idea. I think that Murdoch is referring to the PMC Biomass Agripower, which is a 225 KW Brayton cycle CHP (combined heat and power) unit which will cost around a half million dolars to purchase. The company claims that there is only a 2 year payback if the operators have enough biomass to keep it running continuously and have a use for all that power. It shouldn't be too hard to set up semi trailers with huge battery banks to move the power from the woods to a place that can use the power. If this is true, then I for one would like to buy such a cheap utility company. kris book --- Heath Blount [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks, like all these are highly subsidized by PGE, which means the local energy dollar leaves northern California for NYSE. Not to mention the relative inefficiency of Wood to electric generation. A wood to hot water boiler for heating building space is much more efficient. Heath From: murdoch Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com CC: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED],[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [biofuel] forest fires and using wood biomass as fuel Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:08:03 -0800 http://www.covantaenergy.com/energy/biomass.php4 As I said a few months ago, I ran across this wood-biomass-to-electricity plant north of Sacramento this summer and was told by one local how clean it was, and how it allowed homeowners to have an option for clearing their land of some wood not-suitable-for-firewood-or-building. Later I learned that this was a few years old, but still, it seems relatively obscure. As Southern California and Denver and others now belatedly search for a better forest and fire policy, what I'd love to see is not so much any one measure as a cure-all but use of measures such as this in limited moderate ways, to help communities not only do a better job with fire prevention and mitigation, but also to generate power and make money. other links of interest that came up: http://www.calbiomass.org/county.htm (San Diego, San Bernadino, Orange, Los Angeles Counties not listed! Riverside has only one entry. These are the five disaster-area counties of the recent fires. If I'm not mistaken, San Bernadino is the single biggest county in the US or the lower 48. Much of it is desert, though certainly not all of it.) _ Fretting that your Hotmail account may expire because you forgot to sign in enough? Get Hotmail Extra Storage today! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org
Re: [biofuel] demystifying algae
This is true. When I called NREL about a year ago to find out if they had organic strains, they were somewhat suprised that I didn't want the GM strain that could produce more oil. I indicated that as well as balancing the oil content, it was also and ethical principle that the strains be organic. They do natural hybrid selection for the top oil producers, but I can only assume the GM strains have a large factor of oil production over the natural strains. And with usual GM crops I'm sure they are difficult to maintain without some sort of high inputs. James Slayden On Tue, 4 Nov 2003, Greg and April wrote: Not to be picky or anything, but, I would be interested to know the type of the GM in the reference to genetically modified algae, after all some people think that breeding hybrids of one kind or another is the same as genetically modifying by going in and directly manipulating the genes like for BT corn. It has been my understanding that the algae that was used for the oil experiments have true hybrids from regular strains. Sorry, it is just a pet peeve of mine to have companies claim that BT corn ( or related crops ) is the same as hybrids, and the reverse, to have purest claim that hybrid crops and animals are no better than the BT corn. Greg H. - Original Message - From: girl mark To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 00:11 Subject: [biofuel] demystifying algae Message: 8 From: aronow/turner To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 09:51:36 -0800 Subject: [Burnveggies] Re: Algae snip 4) about 1/3 of the algae in the NREL project was genetically modified, = which is not good for all the birds who come to feast on the ponds [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Rent DVDs Online - Over 14,500 titles. No Late Fees Free Shipping. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/xlw.sC/XP.FAA/3jkFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Bubble Wash Assembly
Ask Ken Provost about his better longer lasting bubbler. I use it now and it works great. For some reason I was also using standard bubblers that would degrade quite rapidly with BD contact, then I transitioned to Ken's design which is all brass. James Slayden On Sun, 23 Nov 2003, Tan wrote: Keith, It seems my bubble stones clog up with soap and sometimes with bd. A basketball pin (I think that's what it's called) is the thin metal tube you insert into a basketball or any other ball to inflate it. I'm thinking that to make a jet of air in water, a strong pump is needed. But perhaps you are right. I might be an over kill and I may end up with biodiesel icing. =) Thanks, Chris =-Original Message- =From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] =Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2003 9:16 AM =To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com =Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bubble Wash Assembly = = =Hello Chris = =Hi all: = =Could you give your input on this? = =How about using a basketball pin and a portable air compressor (the kind =used to inflate tires) to deliver a jet of air into a bd wash tank? = =Sounds like severe overkill. But I don't know what a basketball pin is. = =I found =that using aquarium type bubble stones tend to clog up after a few wash. = =Clog up with what? = =Best = =Keith = = = =Do =you think this idea could work? = =Thanks, = =Chris = = = =Biofuel at Journey to Forever: =http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html = =Biofuels list archives: =http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel = =Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. =To unsubscribe, send an email to: =[EMAIL PROTECTED] = =Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ = = Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Bubble Wash Assembly
Is Mark going Corp?!! ;-) hrmmm, stainless steel . Actually the same thing could be done with black steel, if someone could find the mufflers in stainless. I have yet to find them. James Slayden On Tue, 25 Nov 2003, Ken Provost wrote: on 11/25/03 1:53 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: so what would be a good gas to bubble through the biodiesel. Nitrogen does not strike me as a good one to use around glycerine, and Hydrogen would saturate any unsaturated biodiesel? Let's not get TOO obsessive-compulsive, here Air is OK -- unless you have a lot of linolenic acid in there (y'know, you tried to make your biodiesel out of a DRYING oil, fer chrissakes!) Nitroglycerine is not the same as nitrogen plus glycerine. Assuming the usual frying oils, I've never noticed a lot of polymer formation during my bubble washes (sheesh). Stainless would be better, N2 would be better, but I'm trying to do this down-on-the-farm style. -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Bubble Wash Assembly
So, I am going to eat crow as I looked up Dan's Reference and it is the part that one would use to do the bubbler in stainless steel. =) Thanks Dan, I really searched for one and couldn't find it. Actually, the stainless steel ones are about the same price as the bronze; $6.19 for the 1/4, and $10.31 for the 1/2. Not too much of a budget breaker. I guess Mark gets to keep her ludite status. ;-) Now for those stainless steel water heaters and drums not to mention stainless plumming. James Slayden On Tue, 25 Nov 2003, Dan Maker wrote: skillshare said: brass, biodiesel, and air bubbles is a terrible combination. Brass contains copper and zinc, both catalysts for oxidation (I think) of biodiesel. Air bubbling is one way to speed up breakdown of biodiesel as well, very quickly. go stainless. I've seen the same sort of air difuser/mufflers made from stainless. Type 316 Stainless Steel Exhaust Muffler/Filters from McMaster-Carr ( http://www.mcmaster.com/ ) That's what I've been thinking of using. Dan -- Jack of all trades, master of none. Fiber Artist - Genealogist - Kilt Maker - Linux Geek - Piper - Woodworker http://www.xmission.com/~redbeard Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT click here Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol Process BioD
same with me, IRC will speed up your typing dramatically!! James Slayden On Wed, 26 Nov 2003, Dan Maker wrote: snip That's still WAY cool! Why make a professional call at all, when you can IRC it and have a permanent record? Still you have to be able to type fast, which my daughter does nicely but I never have.-K Yes, it is cool, and I didn't type fast untill I started hanging out on IRC. Now I type about 60wpm. Before I did well to make 35wpm. Dan -- Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Re: Bubble Wash Assembly
Where do you live? The parts that Dan listed From McMaster-Carr orderable and listed here:
Re: [biofuel] Re: Ethanol, Alcohol, Veg Oil
I was reviewing my info on gopherweed recently and it seems that a distillant of it would be a perfect denaturant, or even bio-meth from a smallish scale methane source. Al Rutan would come in handy here (or someone of that ilk). James Slayden On Sat, 29 Nov 2003, Keith Addison wrote: Biodiesel's not poisonous, I think the denaturant has to be poisonous. Biodiesel plus methanol maybe? You can get permits for fuel ethanol production from the ATF, we're told it's not that difficult. Best Keith Would say 5% biodiesel work as a denaurant/lubricant? We are waiting to hear back. Dave Shaw Alcohol Can Be A Gas! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] I called the EPA today- Jim Caldwell's explanation
Hrmm, Well, some ideas might be to get some grant money for 1/2 of the Tier I testing from both public and private sources which would lower the 100 producer input to $1,500. If a non-profit was set up to handle the small producers Tier I testing data it would make the buy in process a lot easier and possibly cover more than 1/2 of the Tier I testing. It is something that was mentioned before, a biodiesel board specifically for WVO processors, only this could be just serving small (sub 1/2 million gal) producers, both SVO and WVO. James Slayden On Tue, 16 Dec 2003, skillshare wrote: snip Costs of Tier I are anywhere from $100,000 to $250,000. The NBB spent some $600,000 I believe. Jim Caldwell suggested it would cost approximately $300,000 and that getting 100 producers together to spend $3,000 would make this affordable. In my opinion, it would be a massive undertaking to make this happen, but this is an option to explore if nothing else works. Lastly, I reiterated that I was talking about commercial producers of onroad fuel for sale, and not about homebrewers making fuel for themselves. I said that my idea of small producer is someone under 500,000 gallons a year or something along those lines (which seems to be `pilot plant' scale for the industry). He then told me that there is no registration process for people who wish to make fuel for their own use- that we are essentially exempt from all of the registration requirements. I also mentioned research and university projects (I'm thinking of student-run projects here rather than something like Iowa State's mechanical engineering program which operates a whole plant for research). He then said that the EPA has a research exemption but it is temporary- he gave some theoretical examples of university projects which typically produce their own fleet onroad fuel for about 5 busses, figuring out the logistics for a couple of years as exempt producer- and that the EPA would require registration and testing once such a theoretical project upscaled to something like 50 busses past the first couple of years of research. He said such research of course needs to be actual research- keeping records, conducting experiments. SO I am now very much wondering about strategy on where to go with all this. I think we're finally reaching the point (at least in California biodiesel) where there could be significant public support for legal challenges and the like. I do agree with Jim's point that legal challenges wouldn't get far if the first option, arbitration with the NBB, didn't get tried. The other route besides arbitration with the NBB would be challenging the EPA itself to change it's rules (which sounds difficult, plus these rules apply across the board to all manufacturers of new fuels and fuel additives and it seems to me like a generally good thing that they are conservative!). The other route besides arbitration and challenging the EPA would be to form a producers' coop to run Tier I testing and making this info public domain (yeah right). Knowing what I know of small business owners, it'd be quite difficult to organize 100 would-be businesses or otherwise take on a project of this scope. Plus there's a catch-22 situation- it's hard to include such a plan as a cornerstone of your business plan while looking for investors to put money into your biodiesel business. Thoughts? mark Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Test Batches and Theory vs Practice
Ken, I wonder how things would go with titrations between 2-3 ml NaOH? That seem to be somewhat average WVO that I am collecting. I sure do need to get over to MAX's to get some of that stuff your collecting .. ;-) This is a great thread and I am glad your doing the experiments to figure out what is the limit for Eth processing. And for everyone out there, I have been over to Ken's for processing and the setup is EXTREEMELY ludite and Ken is getting good results with a 5:1 Eth:Meth ratio for titrations under 2 ml NaOH. So, it is possible to be as Eco as possible using just a small amount of Meth. Good work Ken!!! James Slayden BTW, did you ever get another drum of that Parallel Products Eth? I know you and Dave Shaw were in contact so I wanted to see if it finally got off the ground. On Tue, 30 Dec 2003, Ken Provost wrote: on 12/30/03 8:26 AM, Dan Maker at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want to make biodiesel from WVO and Ethanol. So far the only ethyl esters I've heard discussed are from virgin oil, or mostly virgin oil with only a small percentage of WVO. Well, not exactly. I've been using about half 'n' half WVO and flush oil (overall 0.9 ml NaOH titer), but I'm doing a sample of straight WVO (1.7 ml NaOH) tonite with 90:10 eth:meth just to prove you wrong :-) Now I know that's not very high still, but I'm truly shocked to read of fokes trying to use 8- and 9-ml stuff. Hey, garbage is garbage -- we can't work miracles here. I get my oil from Hammerhead Fish House and Maxx's Ribs -- it's 1.7 after 6 mos. in my garage. There's no need (for me at least) to get any worse. If I really needed to use the WORST I've EVER seen in my area (4.0 ml Na titr), and I wanted to use mostly ethanol, I'd do acid-base with 9:1 eth:meth. I bet it would work, tho I can't say fer sure. -K Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
