Re: [Biofuel] Pendulum
Oh yes I read what you wrote. You seem to think I should be concerned about the latent energy from the atmosphere and count it as the input cost. The input cost is what we need to do to make it work. Here in the real world where I live I can buy 8221 Btu (2.383Kw) of electrical energy for about 35.5 cents Canadian and turn it into $1.36 worth of energy. When I use just a little of the energy from the sun I increase the return on the input cost to $1.77. Who do you think I should pay to balance the account. I have no argument with you saying the latent energy in the atmosphere is the difference so you can balance your equation. Calculating the energy extracted from the atmosphere simply allows one to calculate what the over unity factor is. Seems pretty simple to me. I am glad the engineers who first built this system seemed to see things the way I do. I am sorry you don't agree. Wes -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:51 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pendulum Huh? Did you actually read what I wrote? On 1/11/07, Wes Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes and this is why what does not work in theory sometimes works in practice Wes On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:25 PM On 1/11/07, Wes Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Taking the data for a unit similar to mine for an example: 30,000btu McQuay with a typical condition 50F entering water temp @ 6.1 GPM with return air temp @ 70, requires 2.383 KW to operate the pump. This is 8,221 BTU's input. . The output under these conditions is 31,413 BTU's indicating a COP of 3.86. My system draws from a 2,000 gallon pool connected to a thermal solar system . when the pool is 70 to 80 degrees my COP is around 5. I work in this industry and most of my colleagues refer to this as over unity. The actual input to this system is somewhere above 31,413 BTUs -- not the 8,221BTUs you indicate -- some input being electrical energy, and some being thermal energy in that 50F entering water. When defining a thermodynamic system, it does not matter what form energy crosses the boundry of the system -- thermal, mecahnical, electrical, it all counts. Perhaps in the heat pump industry they refer to this as over-unity, but to a physicist, just hearing that immediately makes us discount it as nonsense. I can't speak for everyone else, but I don't think the arguement here is about whether heat pumps work, or how they work, but whether the definition over-unity can be applied to them. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pendulum
Hi Keith: I am afraid egos have entered this discussion. The reality I see from all of the objections is some folks would like to be physicists. I think being a good physicist requires extreme depth. The objections I have seen are valid to understand where the extra energy is coming from. Once this is understood, it is helpful to look at what energy is required as input and what we receive at the other end. I am grateful for this discussion, it has been useful to me to organize these procedures in my mind, and to be able to re-iterate them in an intelligible way. Beyond that I am only seeing a distortion of egos. Farmers seem to have a handle on this, they know the sun is providing a certain amount of energy to help them grow corn. But they are smart enough to focus on what energy input is necessary from them. Perhaps this is why so many farmers just shake their head in disbelief when a physicist speaks Wes On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 4:39 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pendulum Wes Moore wrote: Oh yes I read what you wrote. You seem to think I should be concerned about the latent energy from the atmosphere and count it as the input cost. The input cost is what we need to do to make it work. Here in the real world where I live I can buy 8221 Btu (2.383Kw) of electrical energy for about 35.5 cents Canadian and turn it into $1.36 worth of energy. When I use just a little of the energy from the sun I increase the return on the input cost to $1.77. Who do you think I should pay to balance the account. I have no argument with you saying the latent energy in the atmosphere is the difference so you can balance your equation. Calculating the energy extracted from the atmosphere simply allows one to calculate what the over unity factor is. Seems pretty simple to me. I am glad the engineers who first built this system seemed to see things the way I do. I am sorry you don't agree. Wes And did you actually read what I wrote? http://snipurl.com/17co2 [Biofuel] Pendulum Wed Jan 10 2007 Keith On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:51 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pendulum Huh? Did you actually read what I wrote? On 1/11/07, Wes Moore mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes and this is why what does not work in theory sometimes works in practice Wes On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:25 PM On 1/11/07, Wes Moore mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Taking the data for a unit similar to mine for an example: 30,000btu McQuay with a typical condition 50F entering water temp @ 6.1 GPM with return air temp @ 70, requires 2.383 KW to operate the pump. This is 8,221 BTU's input. . The output under these conditions is 31,413 BTU's indicating a COP of 3.86. My system draws from a 2,000 gallon pool connected to a thermal solar system Š when the pool is 70 to 80 degrees my COP is around 5. I work in this industry and most of my colleagues refer to this as over unity. The actual input to this system is somewhere above 31,413 BTUs -- not the 8,221BTUs you indicate -- some input being electrical energy, and some being thermal energy in that 50F entering water. When defining a thermodynamic system, it does not matter what form energy crosses the boundry of the system -- thermal, mecahnical, electrical, it all counts. Perhaps in the heat pump industry they refer to this as over-unity, but to a physicist, just hearing that immediately makes us discount it as nonsense. I can't speak for everyone else, but I don't think the arguement here is about whether heat pumps work, or how they work, but whether the definition over-unity can be applied to them. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pendulum
Zeke I think one thing that trumps the laws of physics are results. Physics, as the heat pump example explains identifies where the mysterious energy comes from. From there I think an intelligent engineer would proceed accepting this gift of energy and create the system to operate accordingly. Some people seem to think if physics can not explain something, a machine should not be built. In my experience inventions seem to operate in reverse to that model. Is the physicist who explains how something works, in any way better than the inventor who produced the results?. You raised 2 points here : 1 Economics are inconsistent depending on prices. . It does not matter whether you are paying 1 cent / KW or 30 cents, the ratio remains constant. 2 A common heating system where tenants are charged by consumption only transfers the advantage to the owner of the central system. I would still count the energy from the atmosphere as a gift. The question you raise only questions who gets the gift. In an ideal situation the power plant owner is honest and charges according to his input cost. Wes On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pendulum Wait... you make an economic arguement for why not to count the thermal input, then claim that engineers designed it based on economics, not physics? I've got two engineering degrees, and was always taught that the laws of physics govern how stuff works. Economics is so inconsistent depending on particular prices and economic systems, that trying to design something based on it would rarely work. What if you were charged for the thermal input from some central heat distribution system -- would the heat pump suddenly stop functioning? According to your definition, it seems like it would. Yet, it would be exactly the same machine as before. On 1/11/07, Wes Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh yes I read what you wrote. You seem to think I should be concerned about the latent energy from the atmosphere and count it as the input cost. The input cost is what we need to do to make it work. Here in the real world where I live I can buy 8221 Btu (2.383Kw) of electrical energy for about 35.5 cents Canadian and turn it into $1.36 worth of energy. When I use just a little of the energy from the sun I increase the return on the input cost to $1.77. Who do you think I should pay to balance the account. I have no argument with you saying the latent energy in the atmosphere is the difference so you can balance your equation. Calculating the energy extracted from the atmosphere simply allows one to calculate what the over unity factor is. Seems pretty simple to me. I am glad the engineers who first built this system seemed to see things the way I do. I am sorry you don't agree. Wes -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 10:51 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pendulum Huh? Did you actually read what I wrote? On 1/11/07, Wes Moore mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes and this is why what does not work in theory sometimes works in practice Wes On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:25 PM On 1/11/07, Wes Moore mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Taking the data for a unit similar to mine for an example: 30,000btu McQuay with a typical condition 50F entering water temp @ 6.1 GPM with return air temp @ 70, requires 2.383 KW to operate the pump. This is 8,221 BTU's input. . The output under these conditions is 31,413 BTU's indicating a COP of 3.86. My system draws from a 2,000 gallon pool connected to a thermal solar system . when the pool is 70 to 80 degrees my COP is around 5. I work in this industry and most of my colleagues refer to this as over unity. The actual input to this system is somewhere above 31,413 BTUs -- not the 8,221BTUs you indicate -- some input being electrical energy, and some being thermal energy in that 50F entering water. When defining a thermodynamic system, it does not matter what form energy crosses the boundry of the system -- thermal, mecahnical, electrical, it all counts. Perhaps in the heat pump industry they refer to this as over-unity, but to a physicist, just hearing that immediately makes us discount it as nonsense. I can't speak for everyone else, but I don't think the arguement here is about whether heat pumps work, or how they work, but whether the definition over-unity can be applied to them. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail
Re: [Biofuel] Pendulum
Yes in all cases I have referred to KW hours. But you are right this does not take into account the few minutes of operation that would be wasted at start up for each cycle. I have set my t stat to 1 cycle per hour so this is not as much of a concern as I sometimes see up to 5 or 7cycles per hour with some electric heat settings. If a system is sized properly 1 CPH does not compromise occupant comfort. Wes -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 11:44 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pendulum Holy crap Wes you're paying 15 cents per Kwh? (yes don't forget the hours unit, or are you taking almost 3 hours to do this work?) I pay 6 cents or near a third of that. Where do you live man? Joe Wes Moore wrote: Oh yes I read what you wrote. You seem to think I should be concerned about the latent energy from the atmosphere and count it as the input cost. The input cost is what we need to do to make it work. Here in the real world where I live I can buy 8221 Btu (2.383Kw) of electrical energy for about 35.5 cents Canadian and turn it into $1.36 worth of energy. When I use just a little of the energy from the sun I increase the return on the input cost to $1.77. Who do you think I should pay to balance the account. I have no argument with you saying the latent energy in the atmosphere is the difference so you can balance your equation. Calculating the energy extracted from the atmosphere simply allows one to calculate what the over unity factor is. Seems pretty simple to me. I am glad the engineers who first built this system seemed to see things the way I do. I am sorry you don't agree. Wes ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pendulum
LOL Joe I live in Ontario as well, my calculations are derived from adding in PST, GST, Delivery charge, Debt Retirement, Administration charge and anything else they seem to add to our bill. I simply divide the total bill with the number of kilowatts consumed. It varies between 18 to 15 cents per KW Wes PS: I hope they are not giving you folks in western Ontario preferential treatment!! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 11:44 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pendulum Holy crap Wes you're paying 15 cents per Kwh? (yes don't forget the hours unit, or are you taking almost 3 hours to do this work?) I pay 6 cents or near a third of that. Where do you live man? Joe Wes Moore wrote: Oh yes I read what you wrote. You seem to think I should be concerned about the latent energy from the atmosphere and count it as the input cost. The input cost is what we need to do to make it work. Here in the real world where I live I can buy 8221 Btu (2.383Kw) of electrical energy for about 35.5 cents Canadian and turn it into $1.36 worth of energy. When I use just a little of the energy from the sun I increase the return on the input cost to $1.77. Who do you think I should pay to balance the account. I have no argument with you saying the latent energy in the atmosphere is the difference so you can balance your equation. Calculating the energy extracted from the atmosphere simply allows one to calculate what the over unity factor is. Seems pretty simple to me. I am glad the engineers who first built this system seemed to see things the way I do. I am sorry you don't agree. Wes ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pendulum
Kirk wrote: A machine that actually worked without input of heat or mechanical; or electrical work, or produced more work than was input would be an over unity machine. Underline emphasis by me The operation of a heat pump utilizes liquid phase change. The systems on the market choose a specific Freon gas for instance Freon 22 is a CHFC compound. This particular product when compressed to a liquid at say 250 psi would be sprayed through an orifice in an outside evaporator. When the pressure is released to for instance 60 PSI it flashes to a gas. The energy is extracted from latent heat in the atmosphere. The gas is drawn back to the compressor, re compressed to liquid which requires a release of energy. This energy is added to the inside atmosphere and the liquid returns to repeat the cycle. Taking the data for a unit similar to mine for an example: 30,000btu McQuay with a typical condition 50F entering water temp @ 6.1 GPM with return air temp @ 70, requires 2.383 KW to operate the pump. This is 8,221 BTU's input. . The output under these conditions is 31,413 BTU's indicating a COP of 3.86. My system draws from a 2,000 gallon pool connected to a thermal solar system . when the pool is 70 to 80 degrees my COP is around 5. I work in this industry and most of my colleagues refer to this as over unity. If anyone wishes to check this data it is available here: http://www.mcquay.com/mcquaybiz/literature/lit_at_wshp/Catalogs/Cat_1100-5.p df Wes PS: my apologies to Keith for not trimming a post. I have changed from daily digest to individual emails so I can't make this mistake again From: Kirk McLoren [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pendulum Actually Wes a heat pump ins a heat transport machine. The amount it transports is proportional to the difference in temperature of the 2 coils. Source and sink in other words. The amount they transport is compared to that amount of heat produced in a resistor. If you think of it as a train carrying heat and the difference in temperature the hill the train carries it over you can see that the definition of standard conditions determines the theoretical COP. I would have to look it up as I dont remember the conditions any more but I seem to recall that a perfect machine would Have a COP of 12 or 13. A machine of 6 would be a pretty good compromise in materials as a machine to be perfect would have huge heat exchangers and a monstrous compressor to keep mass velocities low. At an arbitrarily small difference in temperature the ratio would of course approach infinity. But it is just transporting heat. A machine that actually worked without input of heat or mechanical; or electrical work, or produced more work than was input would be an over unity machine. As an example think of a pipe with an osmotic membrane on one end - a reverse osmosis membrane. As you inserted it into the ocean at some depth the pressure would be adequate to cause pure water to flow into the pipe. Since sea water is 3% denser than fresh water at some depth the weight of the column of fresh water and the required pressure to operate the membrane would be supplied by the weight of the external salt water. At that point fresh water would flow out the top of the pipe sans pump. That would be an over unity machine. Kirk ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Pendulum
Yes and this is why what does not work in theory sometimes works in practice Wes On Behalf Of Zeke Yewdall Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 9:25 PM On 1/11/07, Wes Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Taking the data for a unit similar to mine for an example: 30,000btu McQuay with a typical condition 50F entering water temp @ 6.1 GPM with return air temp @ 70, requires 2.383 KW to operate the pump. This is 8,221 BTU's input. . The output under these conditions is 31,413 BTU's indicating a COP of 3.86. My system draws from a 2,000 gallon pool connected to a thermal solar system . when the pool is 70 to 80 degrees my COP is around 5. I work in this industry and most of my colleagues refer to this as over unity. The actual input to this system is somewhere above 31,413 BTUs -- not the 8,221BTUs you indicate -- some input being electrical energy, and some being thermal energy in that 50F entering water. When defining a thermodynamic system, it does not matter what form energy crosses the boundry of the system -- thermal, mecahnical, electrical, it all counts. Perhaps in the heat pump industry they refer to this as over-unity, but to a physicist, just hearing that immediately makes us discount it as nonsense. I can't speak for everyone else, but I don't think the arguement here is about whether heat pumps work, or how they work, but whether the definition over-unity can be applied to them. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Pendulum
Robin, As with all new applications to old concepts it is necessary to take time for in-depth understanding of both old and new applications in order to form a new qualified response. I have been experimenting with this concept and made a few observations. 1, there seems to be a difference in the transfer of energy according to the material used to suspend the pendulum. String, wire, or rope seems to absorb some of the motive energy. I am presently using all thread rod. 2, you need more info on the individual pump he is using. Even if the pump design calls for a 3 stroke, if it works with a 1/2 stroke because of an inherent principle in the design, then so be it. You may have noticed this if you have ever used an old homestead water pump. 3, the distance factor in transference of energy seems to bother so many folks. I live in Canada, space just is not that crowded here! I have spent a bit of time speaking with qualified minds about this project. I have discovered that every thing this man is doing is easily explained by physics. This does not preclude that he is using energy in a way that is more efficient than other methods and therefore is putting in a certain amount of energy and receiving 9 more units back. This is not more astounding than the heat pump that heats my home. It is giving me a COP of 5. This is documented by ASHRAE tech data that comes with the unit. I have verified it with my amp meter. Heat pumps are recognized to be over unity devices but it seems they have not been criticized possibly because there is no obvious way to translate this energy back to electricity. 4, researching this concept has led me to info that idicates by pulsing a DC electric current at 10,000 to 20,000 hertz you give the energy a kick in the pants allowing it to take advantage of motive force. This is seen in the example of pushing a child on a swing. 5, it has helped me to understand how the new furnace fan motors operate that work on DC current so much more efficiently. The DC motor comes with a motor controller that is explained as a simple AC/DC convertor. However, at trade shows they demonstrate the magic by connecting a small 9v battery just like you would have in your smoke detector. They show this battery start and operate the fan (they demonstrate only for a bit less than a minute of course) Wes -- From: R Pentney [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Biofuel] Pendulum Pick up a 10 lb weight with a rope or chain and swing it so you can feel the extra weight at the bottom of the swing. Now shorten the rope by half and try it again. The impulse is less, of course much faster reps and therefore the time during which the impulse is applied is much less - therefore less work is done. Now look again at his pictures. That pendulum has such a ridiculously short length it cannot possibly pump water on its own. The impulse time is too short to move the pump lever far enough. Anybody care to try the math? Robin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Pendulum
-Original Message- Doug Being a pump does not preclude a device from being over unity. It does not violate physics because it extracts energy from one place and utilizes it at the other end of the cycle. From our perspective, we do not have to pay for all of the energy that we extract so it is over unity to us. If you choose to use the word free energy instead, it may suit you better. The system if rated as COP 5 means that if you put one unit of energy and you receive 5 back .. so for units are free. This bears out in that it costs 1/5th the cost of resistance heating (most water source or geothermal systems) This is done through phase change of Freon from liquid to gas. An air conditioner has the same advantage, but since it has to over come the inefficiency of the pump/motor as heat this same machine would have a COP of about 3 in the cooling cycle. Wes ) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pendulum A heat pump is a *pump*. It moves heat from one place to another, at an energy cost. It does not create heat. It is not an over-unity device. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada On Wed, 10 Jan 2007, Wes Moore wrote: This is not more astounding than the heat pump that heats my home. It is giving me a COP of 5. This is documented by ASHRAE tech data that comes with the unit. I have verified it with my amp meter. Heat pumps are recognized to be over unity devices but it seems they have not been criticized possibly because there is no obvious way to translate this energy back to electricity. -- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 17:05:22 -0700 From: JAMES PHELPS [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Algae To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed You wouldn't have the name of the specific protozoa they use would you? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Algae Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 12:49:49 +1300 Past research - commercial production of biofuel from algae by end of this year. The kiwi company site states it is 'wild algae' or 'pond algae' growing in settling ponds. http://aquaflowgroupcom.axiion.com/Home http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1objectid=10381404 http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/default.aspx?id=68635cat=1037 Quoting JAMES PHELPS [EMAIL PROTECTED]: H, food too? http://www.atcc.org/common/catalog/numSearch/numResults.cfm?atccNum=40750 http://www.foodrisk.org/dynamic3.cfm?keyword=Docosahexaenoic%20Acids Say can any one give me the trade name or Specific Name of Algae protozoa that are currently being used in research of Biodiesel production? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 18:39:22 -0700 From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] GM unveils Volt plug-in concept To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 The local news report on it here gave some rather bizzarre information on the battery they said it cost $5 to $10k, which is what had to be improved before it had a chance of becoming commercially viable. Funny, because when I priced out a 16kWh lithium ion battery for my electric car, it came to about $50k+. If could get one for $10k, I'd be very very happy Zeke On 1/9/07, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Comment: 3-4 years if the battery technology is available. Why does PNGV spring to mind I wonder? - K http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070107/BUSINESS03/70 1110330/1002/BUSINESS GM unveils Volt plug-in concept January 7, 2007 By MARK PHELAN and JEWEL GOPWANI FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITERS If there's a truly revolutionary car at this year's auto show, it could be the Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid. That's a really big if, though. Advertisement The system in the Volt could allow most U.S. drivers to run their cars all year long without ever gassing up, but it avoids the drawbacks of limited cruising range and multiple-hour recharging times that limited
[Biofuel] pendulum/lever
Frank, I think the link shows some experiment of him attempting to apply the use in a go cart, I didn't understand what he was trying to do. The most interesting concept to me might be to configure it with a magnet and coil similar to the induction flashlights that work by shaking (sliding a magnet back and forth through a coil). Somewhere in the link you will also see the idea to attach magnets at either end of the pendulum swing. This or electro magnets should keep the unit in motion indefinitely. All in all I think the most beautiful part of this invention is a water pump for developing nation's farmers. http://www.rexresearch.com/milkovic/milkovic.htm Wes Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 23:31:04 -0500 From: Frank Navarrete [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Castor oil as a therapy To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed Hi Wes, Interesting link to Milkovic's work. I wonder if you could apply added pendulum energy to a bicycle, and have a sort of long-distance low-effort gear. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] pendulum/lever
Hi Keith At the referenced website there are videos in operation. Unfortunately you have to copy paste to access the video links. I know that you must go through a ton of info daily so I will attempt to provide a few direct links here: http://www.micropixel.biz/veljkomilkovic/videos/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-4)_Me chanical_hammer.wmv http://www.micropixel.biz/veljkomilkovic/videos/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-5)_La boratory_pump.wmv http://www.micropixel.biz/veljkomilkovic/videos/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-7)_Un iversal_oscillator-generator.wmv Apparently Milkovic has done public demonstrations of the water pump as seen in the pictures at the main page http://www.rexresearch.com/milkovic/milkovic.htm In this concept a person would be able to swing the pendulum every once in a while to maintain a constant water flow. He claims that one pendulum swing oscillates for about 130 xs. Putting a load on the pump end seems to have little effect on the oscillation although it must have a dampening effect on the energy transferred to the lever action. The dangling magnets does not quite describe the proposed application. It was postulated that 2 stationary magnets placed at the proximity of the extreme ends of the oscillation with like magnets mounted on the pendulum would force the motion. In my opinion however I think this would dampen the swing. I think opposing magnets would draw the swing and if they are positioned so they can not make contact would release at the end of the swing. Barring this, I suppose solenoids with a trip switch may be effective. The beauty of this is that anyone can replicate a toy to experiment with these concepts due to its simplicity. Regarding other over unity devices: Keelynet posted this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6MDHF39XmU from Budapest. They claim a coordinated effort from labs in Toronto and London. It achieves 1.4 over unity according to the claim. I am hoping this is true and that it does not get utilized by energy companies without passing the savings on to the consumer. This might be similar in concept to the 1.2 over unity that Mitsubishi was speaking of a few years back. Hope this helps Wes N.B. over unity and free energy are not the same. While the energy to pump the lever is not considered free energy it can be considered over unity just as a person with a car jack can use perhaps 20 lbs of force to lift a 2 ton car. I agree with being skeptical. However, it would not be surprising to me if energy interests use a portion of their might to discredit anything deemed to threaten the profit line. http://www.rexresearch.com/milkovic/milkovic.htm http://www.gyogyitokezek.hu/fe/pendpump.htm The water hand-pump with pendulum of Veljko Milkovic Keith wrote: It would be beautiful if there are or ever were any working examples that actually pumped water with 9:1 over-unity energy, or any over-unity, do you know of any such examples? Do you know of any other working, real-world, attested, authenticated examples of this over-unity device working? Or of any over-unity device working? I think this about sums it up: I did look at several sites describing the pendulum of Veljko Milkovic. It seems like a neat little device and it does provide for hands-free operation because the human force is stored in the pendulum swing so that the pump continues to pump for awhile after the push. The machine is not a free energy device. All the energy for the pump comes from the person pushing the pendulum. If it were really overunity (one claim was 9 times as much energy out as in), it would be easy to set it up to pump forever. Its a neat little invention. It is not free energy. It is not perpetual motion. It is not over-unity. It is a cool hand pump. There are many hand pumps of many designs available. Show me one that pumps without input energy from a person or other source and then we will have free energy. http://www.steorn.net/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=35461#Item_6 I doubt dangling magnets off it will help much. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] pendulum/lever
Keith and Doug: Some of the points you both have expressed I consider corrections to my thinking. And it is appreciated. Re the car jack and lever/bate example I had overlooked the distance of moving 2 tons . I am convinced but not totally satisfied. I have been through this example before. My mind keeps reverting back to when I jacked up the 2 storey shed/workshop. It still amazes me that I was able to lift that thing with a bait . sure seemed an efficient use of my breakfast that day! I still wonder how many calories would have been consumed if I was able to lift it the old fashioned way. I think I could have lifted this thing perhaps 100 xs with the bait before I needed to refill at lunch time. I also compare the energy it takes to push a child on a swing. If the timing is right a little energy input from the 'pusher' goes a long way. This example has been used by some researchers.. if you could get the timing right and pulse the electricity in a harmonized way you can use motive force to your advantage. There are at least 2 examples of motor controllers that show an increased efficiency and run noticeably cooler to touch when using a solid state controller with a given load. If it is the mechanism I described here I suppose the effect would be lost at full load if the motor was sized and designed properly. Still in reality a saving is shown in the real world. A local college professor once said 'we sometimes make things work in the lab that won't work in theory So in short, while I share your disappointment in many of the offerings, I anticipate breakthrough anytime now. There are probably some cons out there but I should like to think most inventors are trying hard and honest. I hope, Keith, if you have time for just one video you will be able to watch this one where ten wind up flashlights are able to be lit with the energy it takes to light one. This is obviously not meant for anything more than a demonstration, but I think it will lead to more. I am sure there are plenty of folks at this site who would be very capable of furthering this. http://www.micropixel.biz/veljkomilkovic/videos/Veljko_Milkovic_(video-7)_Un iversal_oscillator-generator.wmv Regarding the EBM overunity motor posted at Keelynet. Sorry I did not post their website Here it is http://www.gammamanager.com/ one of the links commenting said they have not in fact achieved enough energy to be self running, but it did not indicate a date. The company's certified engineering data states a 24.9 KW input is delivering 32.29 KW output produced as heat, obviously this is not what we are looking for. The second test shows a 101.8 KW unit is putting out 108.6 KW as electrical energy and heat. This is impressive but still a little disappointing, I hope they can improve on this. This data was published in Aug of this year. Wes Hello Wes Hi Keith At the referenced website there are videos in operation. Unfortunately you have to copy paste to access the video links. I know that you must go through a ton of info daily so I will attempt to provide a few direct links here: Thanks, but the ton of info usually passes me by these days, very little time to spare for keyboards, and, sad to say, I have trouble accessing video online. But I'll try... http://www.micropixel.biz/veljkomilkovic/videos/Veljko_Milkovic_(vide o-4)_Mechanical_hammer.wmv http://www.micropixel.biz/veljkomilkovic/videos/Veljko_Milkovic_(vide o-5)_Laboratory_pump.wmv http://www.micropixel.biz/veljkomilkovic/videos/Veljko_Milkovic_(vide o-7)_Universal_oscillator-generator.wmv Apparently Milkovic has done public demonstrations of the water pump as seen in the pictures at the main page http://www.rexresearch.com/milkovic/milkovic.htm In this concept a person would be able to swing the pendulum every once in a while to maintain a constant water flow. He claims that one pendulum swing oscillates for about 130 xs. Putting a load on the pump end seems to have little effect on the oscillation although it must have a dampening effect on the energy transferred to the lever action. Yes, but as the guy said, a neat little device but not free energy. The dangling magnets does not quite describe the proposed application. It was postulated that 2 stationary magnets placed at the proximity of the extreme ends of the oscillation with like magnets mounted on the pendulum would force the motion. In my opinion however I think this would dampen the swing. I think opposing magnets would draw the swing and if they are positioned so they can not make contact would release at the end of the swing. Barring this, I suppose solenoids with a trip switch may be effective. The beauty of this is that anyone can replicate a toy to experiment with these concepts due to its simplicity. Regarding other over unity devices: Keelynet posted this link: :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6MDHF39XmU from Budapest. They claim a coordinated effort
[Biofuel] Castor oil as a therapy
Thanks to D. Mindock for the Castor oil post. Here is one comment from someone whom I passed this on to: Hi Wes, since Dr. Hamilton left I`ve been without a doctor, anyway to make a long story short I found a narouapathis [sp?] practitioner in Glen Tay, he`s kept me going when I thought I`d had it! castor oil is his fixit for everything, blueberries are his favourite followed by flax seed oil, I know it sounds delightful but a little bit of honey makes the medicine go down! See you S. Appreciating beneficial posts like this I think some folks may be interested in this: http://www.rexresearch.com/milkovic/milkovic.htm I believe the link was contributed from Keelynet.com. A fellow from Serbia has discovered over unity energy from the application of a pendulum used in conjunction with a lever. There seems to have been a resurgence of advances in over unity lately. Including that unspeakable magnetic motion. . hope this is not offensive to anyone., Wes ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] humanure to humus
I would be surprised if I am the only one on this list thinking it is a good thing to discourage this fellow. In our town I was shocked a few years ago when our town fathers decided to palletize our sewage and sell it to farmers. Fortunately other than spending good tax dollars there was little harm done. They could not find a market. If I am not mistaken environmentalists have been telling us that medicines are actually ending up in the rivers and streams in measurable amounts from waste water sewage plants. I had a friend (died of cancer) who once ran a small motel. He often offered produce from his garden that sat over his weeping tile. I always graciously declined. Of course I am not suggesting his cancer was related. For all I know the meds from plants may have helped him. Wes Luke Hansen Sat, 23 Dec 2006 09:05:09 -0800 Ya know, I'm actually kinda curious to know how this guy is going about composting his waste...I've read a little about it, but never talked to anyone who's done it him/herself. I'm reading a cool book right now called Goodbye to the flush toilet... some late 70's idealistic commie-lib propaganda designed to make good honest folks think that the system that's in place now might not be very efficient. Pshaw, that's like saying the current administration isn't very efficient...just ludicrous. But anyways, this book (a good read, but might be a little hard to find...edited by Carol Hupping Stoner, Rodale Press, 1977) says that it takes some ungodly amount of time for the compost to reach a safe level to be mixed into garden manure. Something like a minimum of six months. And also...what kind of fascist housing authority is this guy dealing with...taking his house away...hmmm...does he have a history of pissing off the neighborhood, or does he just live in some posh upperclass development where the Bourgeoisie don't want to smell his decomposing shit. Best of luck anyways, ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] oil pulling
Luke: Have you ever noticed that when washing a bucket, the water gets dirty before it gets clean. If only a portion of the bucket is dirty, when you clean it you get the rest of the bucket dirty before it gets clean. For a more comprehensive understanding you could probably google healing crisis I have recently started trying the oil pulling method and I think it is beneficial. I think it was either at a DMSO list or perhaps Whitegold list it was posted as well. Wes Luke wrote: Luke Hansen Sat, 09 Dec 2006 16:51:15 -0800 I'm always a little skeptical of miracle cures that tell you that getting sicker is a step towards getting better ;P ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] TiO2 (Titanium Dioxide) Lights
Hi Luke: Any UV light that operates between (I think 230nm to 165nm) will produce noticeable O3. this UV spectrum might be referred to as UV E . the problem with producing ozone this way is the life span of the bulbs. They reach half life rather quickly, perhaps 6 months, after this they are producing longer wave lengths of UV. I think cold plasma is a better way to go. I have one operating with copper grounding. The copper has turned dark gray to black rather than green. You may be interested in this article http://www.oxygenmedicine.com/ozonetoxicity.html . I think it is more or less accepted that O3 that is not contaminated with Fe based metals is good (to a point) metal ductwork perhaps increases the incidence of NO2. this author also speculates the same for high temp corona discharge in air (nitrogen) Luke Hansen wrote: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:31:17 -0800 Hello all, I was just wondering if anyone has heard anything about the effects of these Ozone Lights. I guess that they don't actually create O3, but they do kill airborne pathogens. Most of the online literature that I've found goes back to one study that showed this light effective in killing E. Coli bacteria in clinical trials. Anyone have experiences with this, or anything similar? Thanks, Luke ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] HEAT PUMP APPLICATION
With reference to heat pump applications, you will find useful info at the Mcquay website. They offer complete data specs for each unit model showing efficiencies for each temperature application. The COP for individual temp applications will give you a better concept of performance for your application. http://www.mcquay.com/McQuay/ProductInformation/WSHP/WSHPpage if anyone chooses to use their system please email me [EMAIL PROTECTED] I will be happy to show you a shortcut to get around some of the complications they have designed into their logic board. They have designed the Mark 4 logic board with 24VAC input but 24VDC outputs for auxiliary components which causes unnecessary complication for controls. Otherwise I think it is a very nice unit. Wes -- Joe Street wrote: Hey I just thought of something. If I used your heatpump and connected the output heat exchanger to a sterling motor generator set with an overall efficiency of lets say 50%, I could get 1.5 KW of electrical power from the 3 KW heat energy coming out of the heatpump. Since the heatpump has a CP of say 3 in this case then it only requires 1 KW electical input energy and I have a net 500 watts if I run the heatpump from the sterling generator! Ahh this sounds like a perpetual motion machine eh? But really it is not because there is energy input on the input heat exchanger to the tune of more than 3 KW. Not a very efficient system and using the thermal energy directly as a motive force is still much more eficient but a cool idea since it is completely self powered once it gets started. Hmmm did I miss something obvious here? Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Alum as coagulant
After a few months of experimenting with Alum (1 liter test batches) I have concluded that Alum is effective to congeal water and most of the black sludge in used cooking oil. By adding about 1 teaspoon of alum to a liter of dirty oil, stirring and leaving to settle for a day or two, there is an obvious clarity to the oil and a layer of sediment at the bottom of the container. To make this process even more attractive, by adding more oil after pouring the clarified oil off the top, the alum seems to be able to clarify the next couple of batches without adding more alum. Adding powdered bentonite seems to help, although I have not tried to separate the effects of each. I would be interested to hear the experiences of others. Wes ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots
Hi Bob I really hope you are wrong about this. He seems to be such a kind old gentleman. I agree that some of his assertions seem to be way out there, but when I look at all of the other things that we all don't seem to understand, I try to live with an open mind. Wish I could remember the name of the British Knight who first said I am too much of a skeptic to disbelieve anything I had thought/assumed that all of his degrees where awarded through his career in the US Army. Please don't tell me that was bogus as well. Wes -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bob allen Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 3:21 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots Howdy Wes, Wes Moore wrote: I think you have it wrong, Mr Allen. you can call me bob, but if you want to use titles, try Professor Allen. Whether or not this is viable, there is a world of difference. Dr Tom Bearden is an accredited scientist with a reputation that stands on its own. oh really? He claims he has a Science PhD, but then he also claims that his PhD was awarded the Ph.D. for life experience and for life accomplishment (from Trinity College - Ed.)... http://www.cheniere.org/correspondence/011403.htm when I goggle Trinity College it turns up at least ten different Trinity Colleges, so it would be difficult to trace his credentials. Do you know which one? no wait, I found it (trinity college now defunct was a diploma mill http://web.archive.org/web/19970601203026/http://www.trinityuni.org/index.ht ml he also is an adherent to cold fusion: http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2004/05/27/TomBeardenGrievesMalloveLos s/ he also does weather weapons: http://www.gaiaguys.net/weatherwar.htm also see how tom bearden also does chemistry, http://www.altcancer.com/vidgal.htm#beardon and anti gravity: http://antigravitypower.tripod.com/exper.html and on and on, so no, I don't really think his credentials are all that good. The main thing I see from his web site are outlandish claims and calls for money (vide supra) from: http://www.cheniere.org/ THE FUTURE Could be now-if development funding were made available. Look if this or any other free energy device worked why is money needed. Just hook up your working model to the grid, sell power, make money, , build bigger devices, make more money, etc. etc, etc. In a very short time one could rule the world. From coal miners to nuclear engineers and everything in between would be your slaves. In addition I think Joe Bedini has been able to demonstrate enough to show that anyone with the attitude you have shown is simply out of the flux. out of the flux? I've been out of the loop, out of my head, out of pocket, out to lunch, but never out the flux. I think some of the info from Coral Castle probably demonstrates that it is our lack of comprehension that fosters your polarized attitude. I don't think it is my problem of comprehension, but rather his problem of reality. Sorry to be so blunt, but free energy, magnetic energy, over unity, etc, leave me cold. See quote below from a real scientist. -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves - Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots
Hi Joe I am from near Ottawa, 6 hours from you. The magic, I think is not in the magnet, but in the universe. I hope that you can take all that you know about magnets, and program your mind to understand there is possible that much times 400 more to be known. Wasnt it Einstein who said a genius would be someone who knows ¼ of 1 percent about any one thing. Have you read or tried to read Ed Leedskalnin s book on magnetism ? I am not going to tell you that Mr Radus lab was destroyed, and as far as I know, Westinghouse is still in business. But I hope you would not try to tell me that this sort of thing is not within the scope of corporate and government affairs. Wes -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 2:04 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots Hey Wes, last time I checked the difference between randomized and synchronized electron spin involved energy. Try as I might I haven't found a way to violate the law of conservation of energy otherwise I would. But my offer still stands. I see you are posting from Canada as well so why don't you get your hands on one of these magical magnets and bring it down to the university and we'll see what's what. I've got Gauss meters here and lots of other instrumentation that will put an end to the discussion in short order. All anyone has to do is produce it. Man I sure hope you are right 'cuz I'll be the first to rip that nasty old diesel out of my golf and jam in a free energy motor. Just think too when I get home all I have to do is back that baby up to the wall and give 'er hell and since the wheels aren't turning the rotor windings will now become a generator and I can power my house and get off the grid. Hell I can sell some of that free energy to the city and turn a tidy profit. Is this the point where you are going to tell me that some evil government agents destroyed his labs and now nobody can figure out what the beleaguered genius had discovered? Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Removing water from WVO
Hi Emil Not me, but I do have 3 500ml samples of waste canola oil from a chip wagon. They have been sitting for about a week at room temperature with about 1 to 3 teaspoons of alum dropped in and stirred (not shaken or pumped) . The results look good but I have nothing to report. If anyone has tried this I would be interested in feedback. I have also been toying with the idea of using DE (diatomaceous earth) it is used for swimming pools and apparently as a vacuum filter it can filter down to .5 microns that is ½ micron. Wes -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Manzo, Emil Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:45 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Removing water from WVO Greetings. Has anyone tried using an absorptive polymer to remove water from WVO? It is a cheap product that is used in sandy soils to increase water retention for plants. It is also used in products that remove water from the bottom of fuel tanks at gas stations. I think one brand is called water sock. The WVO could be pumped through a vessel containing the crystals as it was being filtered. The crystals expand with water and turn to jello then they can be dried out in the sun and reused. There is a similar product used in diapers but that is starch based and wouldnt work as well. If it works, we might save time and energy removing water. Am I making sense to anyone? Regards, Emil ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Magnetic boots
I received the following a few days ago. I suspect there may be folks on this list who would find this interesting. The source is from Anthony Craddock who organizes info for Dr Tom Bearden . the page that is linked at the bottom also has Tom Beardens website linked. Wes Try finding the original magnetic astronauts boots that were developed by NASA. The original boots were excellent. For the acceptance tests, an engineer clad as an astronaut walked across the bottom of a steel beam in a high bay research area, upside down against the pull of Earth's gravity. He stepped as he walked, putting his foot down and then picking it up. There is no problem in finding magnets strong enough to hold the astronaut firmly in such an upside position. The problem with simple magnetic boots using such strong magnets is that, once the foot is planted, unless he is King Kong himself, the astronaut cannot pick up the foot again. However, the Radus boots completely solved that problem. If the permanent magnet fields are switched off for that foot that the astronaut wishes to lift, he can lift it easily and take another step. Then if the fields are switched on again as he places his foot down, this switching of the fields allows him to walk in a manner resembling normal walking, though a little slower. To do that switching by normal battery and coils would be prohibitively bulky and heavy and awkward to say the least. With the Radus boots, the astronaut could pick up his foot by simply switching off the permanent magnetic fields easily. They switched on again when he placed the foot down. And he did not have to carry a huge battery around with him, to furnish enormous current to do that. Well, it doesn't take a genius to see that, when you can switch a permanent magnet's fields easily, and the magnet also has a built-in memory as did the Radus magnets, then with a little ingenuity in switching one could use such switchable magnets to produce a self-switching, self-powered permanent magnet motor. The magnet, being a permanent dipole, is already a particular kind of free energy generator, since it continuously gates magnetic energy directly from the vacuum due to its asymmetry in the energetic vacuum flux. >From the energy barons' viewpoint, those Radus magnets and Radus boots had to go, and go quickly. And go they did. So NASA then developed the present shuffler kind of magnetic boots where the astronaut can't pull his boot loose from the surface, but must scoot his feet along in a sliding and painfully awkward fashion. That way, you see, no one can use the boot magnets which now are just rather ordinary permanent magnets, without memories and without switchable fields to make an overunity device or a self-powering permanent magnet engine. Tom Bearden Radus family members have now very kindly provided photos of the original boots, which can be seen at http://www.cheniere.org/misc/astroboots.htm ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots
I think you have it wrong, Mr Allen. Whether or not this is viable, Dr Tom Bearden is an accredited scientist with a reputation that stands on its own. In addition I think Joe Bedini has been able to demonstrate enough to show that anyone with the attitude you have shown is simply out of the flux. I think some of the info from Coral Castle probably demonstrates that it is our lack of comprehension that fosters your polarized attitude. Wes -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bob allen Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:18 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots ah yes, magnets once again -hold on to your wallet ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots
Why wouldnt you just switch your own -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Street Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:58 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Magnetic boots Kewl dude! Ask them to send us one of them 'switchable permanent magnets' to play with so we can build a perpetual motion machine! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] RE: NaOH source in Canada
Hi Ray I have not been able to keep up with the list, so I missed your first message. I bought my NaOH at a local animal feed store in Smiths Falls On Can . the price was either $25 or $35 for 5 Kg. the price was current a few months ago . I am sure it will be available at most 'feed stores'. If they do not know what you are asking for simply ask for Lye. Wes -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of mark manchester Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 8:28 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) Hi Ray, No answers? don't despair. Our dear Darryl must be busy. He's up near you. The lye is not expensive, a Cdn Tire thing, and he told me last year where to get methanol. Erg, I'm looking for it in the old letters. Jesse From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2005 14:50:48 -0400 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] (no subject) Hello to my fellow brewers from Ontario, Canada: I just tried pricing MeOH and NaOH from Fisher Scientific (via Good Health and Safety in Mississauga). MeOH @ $79CAD for 20L and NaOH @ $267CAD for 5kg both before tax and shipping. That won't do! There must be cheaper sources. I'm near Ottawa. How do you make it economically viable? Diesel is running at about $0.90CAD per litre right now, but at these prices I can only hope to break even. Ray -- Ray or Shiraz Ings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 1-613-253-1311 Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] RE:Jill and her defenxe of US aggression in foreign countries
Well, Jill, as a Canadian, or should I say an individual who is from Canada and from what I observe, I do not agree. I believe you are existing in a country that has capitalized on the short term removal of the USSR as a perceived world power, and has become pretty much what society had feared from the USSR. As a case in point, I understand that recent polls throughout Europe now view the US as the greatest threat to world peace, they now term the US as an aggressor. Personally I see a country that has departed from democracy, and is now ruled by a government out of control. Having said this, don't be surprised if I do not continue to participate in a discussion of this, ... I have found for my peace of mind in need to limit the attention I offer to this line of thinking as I attempt to design a peaceful and pleasant life for myself, family, and friends. I too joined this list to learn about bio-diesel and continue to recognize my choice to read or delete according to the subject line. Please know that even if you find my opinion offensive, I consider this to be a detached and mechanical conclusion and will continue to view the American people as individual friends and allies. I do not believe informed citizens of your country would approve of your governments actions if you had the facts before you. Wes Subject: Re: [Biofuel] It's imperialism, stupid Okay, I joined this list to talk about how to create run engines on biofuel, now I find I'm bombarded with talk show chatter in my e-mail box? This debate runs into our daily lives and affects our thoughts and pocketbooks tremendously. However, it would be nice if we were respectful by not stating that people have lack of and disjointed reasoning and stating to get their head out of their own stink. In doing this, you insult all of us who have the view that the war in Irag is essential to our security. Baghdad, for the past 30 years, was THE hotbed of terrorist support. If YOU look at the information out there, you will find the basis for the war. Most people I know, and I'm from the New England, next to California, the most liberal minded area of the country, have found that once they've reviewed ALL the information out there, not just what they hear on the news and in the newspapers (God help us with the Boston Globe!) that the reality is that Hussein PAID, in thousands of US dollars, people to blow themselves up, encouraged the terrorist training camps, supplied Bin Laden with safe have, worked with Syria to provide comfort to our enemy and threatened us with creating nuclear arms. Does this mean that Iran and N. Korea should be ignored? No, as Iran is a complicated mess and N. Korea has a leader who is varifiably insane. Both would love to wipe us off the map. But, Iraq being a healthy country will help us in influencing other countries to discourage terrorists. You do not have to agree with me, that's what is beautiful about this country. I have friends fighting and training Iraqi troops, their culture is one of fear, they don't dare disagree with a leader, it's been ingrained in them from birth. It will take some years of US presence to help alleviate this. You and I don't have that, we are allowed to speak, but what is essential is that we do it respectfully. I enjoy a good debate, but not one that tears others down. I ask that if you are posting to a public site, like this one, that you keep it respectful. A well-respected talk show host said the following yesterday, If we were united in this country, if we all understood what the purpose here was, that it's all about guarding against another terrorist attack for our kids and grandkids, all about making sure there's not another 9/11 -- or if there is, we'll know of it in enough time to stop it. That's what we're trying to achieve. But as long as we're not united here and the voices of opposition to this continually misrepresent what our objective is, and continually misrepresent our purpose as just we want oil, Bush and Cheney want oil, or Halliburton needs more money, or what have you, as long as it keeps being obfuscated like that, it's just going to make the task all that much more difficult, as World War II would have been that much more difficult had we not been unified in beating Hitler and Japan and all the others, Mussolini, that we faced. So it's not easy. It's very, very hard. But the answer ultimately, the short version is, we have to establish circumstances that we know exist because they work here. Culturally it doesn't matter; all cultures come to this country and thrive because of freedom. We need to establish the same circumstances where human beings around the world have the same grand, God-given freedom we do to determine their own fate. The vast majority of free people want to pursue life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, not learning how to fly airplanes into buildings. - Rush Best regards, Jill Mello - Original Message - From:
RE: [Biofuel] How many trees were killed to build your home ?
I think I am seeing a pattern here. I have noticed that some folks seem to think that whatever is being done is bad... end of story . not just in this forum, but it seems to be abundant here. I would like to suggest to anyone who witnesses this tendency that they withhold criticism until they feel they can offer a solution. I try to exercise this method with myself, and I suggest it may be helpful to others. You will notice that Keith, for instance, seems to offer solutions. Others can only describe what they feel is wrong with the system. This is not a complete solution to a negative personality, but should go a long way in making life more pleasant for all. I enjoy the constructive criticism and solutions offered here, but am slightly frustrated when folks endlessly tell us that everything in the world is wrong. Wes Hello Chris Trees are renewable and the lumber industry now replants more trees than it takes. The only problem with repanting trees, period, that i'm shocked no one has mentioned (unless i missed it), is that the earth in a particular area can only support 4-5 generations of trees before the soil is completely exhausted. Trees take more nutrients out of the soil to grow than just about anything else, and after several generations they will NOT grow any longer. So yeah, replanting after clear cutting is nice and all, but after a few times at the the soil stops growing... anyhting... I don't think there's any basis for this assumption, quite the opposite. Forests can continue indefinitely. Some forests are 30 million years old. What sort of forests are you talking about? Can you provide some references please? And as far as deforestation goes, i'm more worried about places outside developed countries where no one really cares if trees are replanted. A lot of the slash and burn Some, not most. taking place in the rainforest is regular old people who are trying to grow food or make money, clearing land for cattle and farms. Mostly they've been marginalised, or they wouldn't need to do it. It's worth checking what marginalised them, for a clearer picture. They're the most widely blamed, though they're probably the least to blame. In tropical forests most of the nutrients are in the trees, with very little in the soil. Slash-and-burn provides some mineral-rich ash which fertilises the soil for a couple of years, and then, as the fertility levels sink, pioneer weeds invade, their purpose to begin restoring the fertility reserves. These weeds are generally very tough, very hard to fight, like lalang grass in Southeast Asia. The peasants are forced out, and have to slash-and-burn another site, and use it for another couple of years. There are initiatives to stabilise this cycle, several through agroforestry principles. If the leaves and small branches of the trees that are cut down were composted instead of burnt the poor forest soils could be maintained at much higher fertility levels, with no pioneer weeds invading and no need to move on. Those people don't replant trees, Quite often they do plant trees. and they aren't part of a multibnation company with lots of enviromental regulations to uphold. Or ignore. Best Keith _Chris N - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Joe Street To: mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgBiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 11:55 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How many trees were killed to build your home ? Hi Hakan; 100% in agreement with all of that. Clearcutting IS bad, I thought I made that distinction. It is also true that clearcutting does not hurt snip ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] converting shortening to bio-diesel
I have been lurking at this group for a couple of weeks as I discover the process of WVO conversion to bio-diesel. Just today I chose to contact a few local sources, the first to respond replied with a message that he uses shortening (I assume vegetable source) for his potato chip wagon. Can shortening be used for this purpose? Is it more complicated than other sources? Thank you for any help Wes ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
