Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Soy is making kids 'gay'

[Andy Karpay]

Don't know anything about the subject.  However, I'll bet "dollars to
donuts" that this 'rumor' was started by someone associated with the meat
industry, a lobbyist, or Karl Rove himself. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of no
shi
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 12:55 PM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Soy is making kids 'gay'

I see no lack of fertility (or 'gayness' )with the
Asian population and soy is used everywhere in Asia.

But if it is proven to be "feminizing" then all the
more reason to just use it as diesel fuel and not eat
it!

ns
--- Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Not if it is my grandchildren - and I assume you
> would share this re your own. Since this is an
> established medical fact the continuance of approval
> for soy formula sort of tips their hand doesnt it?
> Yes- I believe soy is being used for population
> control.
>   This was posted to encourage the avoidance of a
> toxic food being sold as a health food. Without your
> health you have nothing.
>   As for testosterone needed by males it most
> certainly is and I suspect by females as well.
>   DHEA supplementation has done wonders for me.
> Anyone over 40 should investigate it. By 60 your
> natural production is woefully inadequate. So to
> ingest an antaganon to testosterone is very very
> bad. 
>   Kirk
> 
> Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   Given the population pressures the world is facing
> (or least the developed
> world with our extravagant lifestyle), wouldn't this
> be a good thing?
> 
> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Kirk McLoren wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=39253
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Soy is making kids 'gay'
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


> >
> > Posted: December 12, 2006
> > 1:00 am Eastern
> >
> > (c) 2008
> >
> > Read all of Rutz's columns on soy for the whole
> story:
> >
> > Soy is making kids 'gay'
> > The trouble with soy - part 2
> > The trouble with soy - part 3
> > The trouble with soy - part 4
> > The trouble with soy - part 5
> > The trouble with soy - part 6
> >
> > There's a slow poison out there that's severely
> damaging our children and
> > threatening to tear apart our culture. The ironic
> part is, it's a "health
> > food," one of our most popular.
> >
> > Now, I'm a health-food guy, a fanatic who seldom
> allows anything into his
> > kitchen unless it's organic. I state my bias here
> just so you'll know I'm
> > not anti-health food.
> >
> > The dangerous food I'm speaking of is soy. Soybean
> products are feminizing,
> > and they're all over the place. You can hardly
> escape them anymore.
> >
> > I have nothing against an occasional soy snack.
> Soy is nutritious and
> > contains lots of good things. Unfortunately, when
> you eat or drink a lot of
> > soy stuff, you're also getting substantial
> quantities of estrogens.
> >
> > Estrogens are female hormones. If you're a woman,
> you're flooding your
> > system with a substance it can't handle in
> surplus. If you're a man, you're
> > suppressing your masculinity and stimulating your
> "female side," physically
> > and mentally.
> >
> > In fetal development, the default is being female.
> All humans (even in old
> > age) tend toward femininity. The main thing that
> keeps men from diverging
> > into the female pattern is testosterone, and
> testosterone is suppressed by
> > an excess of estrogen.
> >
> > If you're a grownup, you're already developed, and
> you're able to fight off
> > some of the damaging effects of soy. Babies aren't
> so fortunate. Research is
> > now showing that when you feed your baby soy
> formula, you're giving him or
> > her the equivalent of five birth control pills a
> day. A baby's endocrine
> > system just can't cope with that kind of massive
> assault, so some damage is
> > inevitable. At the extreme, the damage can be
> fatal.
> >
> > Soy is feminizing, and commonly leads to a
> decrease in the size of the
> > penis, sexual confusion and homosexuality. That's
> why most of the medical
> > (not socio-spiritual) blame for today's rise in
> homosexuality must fall upon
> > the rise in soy formula and other soy products.
> (Most babies are bottle-fed
> > during some part of their infancy, and one-fourth
> of them are getting soy
> > milk!) Homosexuals often argue that their
> homosexuality is inborn because "I
> > can't remember a time when I wasn't homosexual."
> No, homosexuality is always
> > deviant. But now many of them can truthfully say
> that they can't remember a
> > time when excess estrogen wasn't influencing them.
> >
> > Doctors used to hope soy would reduce hot flashes,
> prevent cancer and heart
> > disease, and save millions in the Third World from
> starvation. That was
> > before they knew much about long-term soy use. Now
> we know it's a classic
> > 

[Biofuel] Anyone in Tampa (Florida) area willing to mentor?

[Andy Karpay]

I've seen a post or two from this area (recalling the sighting of an EV on a
flatbed truck crossing Howard Frankland bridge).  I've got WVO collection
down, and have run some WVO in Mercedes.  Looking to progress to BD but have
some concerns about setup, chemicals (where bought, how stored, etc).
Florida is humid and I am concerned about water in the materials.  I've been
through the JtF site numbers of times, understand the principles and steps,
etc, but not sure about any required 'construction' of vessels, pumps etc.
If I can see it done it would perhaps ease my fears

Reply here, or via my personal [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thanks to all for the information, insights, and entertainment.




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Re: [Biofuel] Depleted Uranium Shells Used by U.S. Military - again

[Andy Karpay]

I never said DU was harmful to those who handled it, only those who were
around (nearby) after its impact.

2) check with your local charcoal manufacturing company (if they let you).
Wood is a raw ingredient. (what types used?)  How much fly ash is added?
What other binders are used?  If you ask them they will say "all hardwoods,
and no binders", then you know they are hiding something.  Typical binders
are either flyash from the local power plant and/or some liquid waste
product.  Watch what kinds of trucks enter the plant.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Terry Wilhelm
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2008 3:18 AM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Depleted Uranium Shells Used by U.S. Military - again

Please tell me what brand of briquettes you are referring to?  I live very
close to a major manufacture and am very sure that I know what they are made
of.
   
  Also, for all the rest about DU, it does not appear that anyone here has
actually handled any DU in their life, only read about it.  That is a
reference.  If you are looking for live reference to handling DU I will be
more then happy to answer questions.  The US Navy uses shells that are DU
and I have years of experience of handling them and the very tight
procedures that are involved.  
   
  on good assumption - more people die from lung cancer than those that
handle DU
   
  Terry



   
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Re: [Biofuel] Depleted Uranium Shells Used by U.S. Military Worse Than Nuclear Weapons

[Andy Karpay]

Just check the ingredients (if you can) used to manufacture charcoal
briquettes. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Keith Addison
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 2:10 PM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Depleted Uranium Shells Used by U.S. Military Worse
Than Nuclear Weapons

Hi Andy

I wonder what happened to the US plans to recycle radioactive nuclear 
wastes into common household appliances like kitchen cutlery and 
babies' prams and so on? The proposals came up a couple of times. Did 
they just drop it or are they going ahead without telling anybody? 
Similar sort of insanity to industry's "reycling" thousands of tons 
of hazwastes - lead, arsenic, cadmium, mercury and so on - as fill 
for fertiliser, which US farmers happily spread on their fields to 
grow their food crops. All perfectly legal too.

>The fact that it pollutes the immediate area, its users as well as anyone
in
>the area of its firing is not important to the US Government, nor will it
>ever be.

I'm sure you're right about that. :-(

Best

Keith


>Here in Florida we have 'gypsum stacks' which are huge piles of ... Gypsum
a
>by-product from the processing of phosphate to "fertilizer".  It is
somewhat
>(very low level) radio-active, and as such cannot be used for road beds,
>construction etc.  I'll bet that DU is stronger, and worse for the
imbibers.
>And excreted or not, we are seeing high rates of deformities in babies in
>Afghanistan, Iraq, (where the DU is used) and among returning soldiers'
>families as well. 
>DU is a great way to dispose of waste products that normally would not be
>allowed to be disposed of most places in the US.  Why not make it into
>munitions (yes, its high density makes it a perfect armor piercing weapon).
>The fact that it pollutes the immediate area, its users as well as anyone
in
>the area of its firing is not important to the US Government, nor will it
>ever be.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
>Chip Mefford
>Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 1:32 PM
>To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Depleted Uranium Shells Used by U.S. Military Worse
>Than Nuclear Weapons
>
>Chip Mefford wrote:
>>  Craig Barrett wrote:
>>>  H... while DU may be dangerous, this article doesn't help much with
>the
>>>  way it's written - poor use of statistics, no references to support its
>>>  claims.  It's exactly this kind of shoddy work that causes the raising
of
>>>  the skeptical eyebrow at those who're fighting against things like DU.
>This
>>>  is a real pity because I think it hampers what might otherwise be a
>really
>>>  good cause.
>>
>>  Wholly agreed.
>
>  >SNIP
>
>I kinda want to change my language, but it's already posted, so I'll
>just add my after-thoughts.
>
>Point, my use of 'non-issue' just doesn't feel right. But it really
>does seem that the who has really played this down.
>
>Point. I agree with the basic premise of the original article.
>However, this statement "The genetic future of the Iraqi people, for the
>most part, is destroyed. The environment now is completely radioactive."
>I've read before, elsewhere, I can't substantiate it.
>Against the background radiation of other areas in the region, yeah,
>it's up a bit. And it's my feeling/opinion, that a 'bit' is a huge
>amount, but with what passes for 'expertise' in these areas, folks
>seem to think that's okay, when going for health expert citations.
>See the who report I linked earlier.
>
>yes, I think that service folks are paying a terrible price, and the
>people of the area we all call Irag are paying a staggeringly price
>orders of magnitude above.
>
>This is all happening whether there is 'consensus' by us or not.
>Uranium is just fine, left in the ground, in it's natural state,
>unrefined, and not touched, the way it should be. Doing anything
>else with it, is just insane. That's my take.
>
>Proving that, otoh, has proven to be pretty difficult.


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Re: [Biofuel] Depleted Uranium Shells Used by U.S. Military Worse Than Nuclear Weapons

[Andy Karpay]

Here in Florida we have 'gypsum stacks' which are huge piles of ... Gypsum a
by-product from the processing of phosphate to "fertilizer".  It is somewhat
(very low level) radio-active, and as such cannot be used for road beds,
construction etc.  I'll bet that DU is stronger, and worse for the imbibers.
And excreted or not, we are seeing high rates of deformities in babies in
Afghanistan, Iraq, (where the DU is used) and among returning soldiers'
families as well.  
DU is a great way to dispose of waste products that normally would not be
allowed to be disposed of most places in the US.  Why not make it into
munitions (yes, its high density makes it a perfect armor piercing weapon).
The fact that it pollutes the immediate area, its users as well as anyone in
the area of its firing is not important to the US Government, nor will it
ever be.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Chip Mefford
Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 1:32 PM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Depleted Uranium Shells Used by U.S. Military Worse
Than Nuclear Weapons

Chip Mefford wrote:
> Craig Barrett wrote:
>> H... while DU may be dangerous, this article doesn't help much with
the
>> way it's written - poor use of statistics, no references to support its
>> claims.  It's exactly this kind of shoddy work that causes the raising of
>> the skeptical eyebrow at those who're fighting against things like DU.
This
>> is a real pity because I think it hampers what might otherwise be a
really
>> good cause.
> 
> Wholly agreed.

 >SNIP

I kinda want to change my language, but it's already posted, so I'll
just add my after-thoughts.

Point, my use of 'non-issue' just doesn't feel right. But it really
does seem that the who has really played this down.

Point. I agree with the basic premise of the original article.
However, this statement "The genetic future of the Iraqi people, for the 
most part, is destroyed. The environment now is completely radioactive."
I've read before, elsewhere, I can't substantiate it.
Against the background radiation of other areas in the region, yeah, 
it's up a bit. And it's my feeling/opinion, that a 'bit' is a huge
amount, but with what passes for 'expertise' in these areas, folks
seem to think that's okay, when going for health expert citations.
See the who report I linked earlier.

yes, I think that service folks are paying a terrible price, and the
people of the area we all call Irag are paying a staggeringly price
orders of magnitude above.

This is all happening whether there is 'consensus' by us or not.
Uranium is just fine, left in the ground, in it's natural state,
unrefined, and not touched, the way it should be. Doing anything
else with it, is just insane. That's my take.

Proving that, otoh, has proven to be pretty difficult.

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Re: [Biofuel] ask a bootlegger

[Andy Karpay]

It just doesn't taste as good

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Michael Miller
Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 3:20 PM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ask a bootlegger

Do you mean corn silage would work even better than whole kernel corn?

Michael

On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>   If they want to make alcohol, they should ask a bootlegger.
>  Corn works well but not the way they are trying to do it.  Much more
sugar
> can be excracted if they use the whole plant, and harvest before the ears
> complete,but they can't use their giant machines to do this so they only
use
> part.  Stupid, stupid, stupid.
>
>
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Re: [Biofuel] Fascists at it again

[Andy Karpay]

Just to make a point, I was reading the "ask Umbra" column at Grist
magazine.  She was re-answering a question about lead in container grown
(urban) gardens.  She goes on talking about the (U.S.) government's
knowledge that lead was unhealthy used in gasoline (and paint) but was
allowed because it "was good for commerce".  That, is corporatism mixed with
government.  Making profits at the expense of the general population.  And
who pays for any sickness from this?  The public.
http://grist.org/advice/ask/2008/05/05/?source=ask




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Chip Mefford
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 3:52 PM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fascists at it again

Chris Burck wrote:
> the wiki articles place too much emphasis imho on fascism as a
> philosophy, though they do discuss corporatism,
> production/productivism, and strong government intervention in favor
> of the economic elites.

im(not so -h)o that has to do with the fact that it's a pejorative
term that gets tossed about rather than an apt description.
wikipedia is correct to focus on fascism as an economic/governmental
philosophy, as that is what it is.
Where the fascists and the corporate autocracy cross paths,
folks jump for joy and scream fascisti! fascisti! when in point,
it's a term that no longer has meaning, rather like nazi, commie,
hippie, etc, ad nausium.

> 
> On 5/5/08, Kirk McLoren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Good URL Andy. Everyone should look at it.
>>   Most politicians seem to be a sick breed of cat. Power mad sociopaths.
How
>> they can be so toxic and not even have a hint of their pathology is
beyond
>> me.
>>
>>   Kirk
>>
>> Andy Karpay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>   For "some reason" Wikipedia definition of fascism has lost its
references
>> to
>> merging corporatism with the state (it's what I don't like about
Wikipedia).
>> However, some common threads can be seen here.
>>
>> 14 Points of fascism: The warning signs
>> http://oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm
>>
>> AK
>> .The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient
margin
>> of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and
>> possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding
power
>> in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone
>> --- Benito Mussolini
>>
>> The fascist rat bags who think themselves our betters are now promoting
>> their pharma income. The state is a myth. Mussolini got what all good
>> fascists deserve. Basically these people will rule you into the ground if
>> you let them
>>
>> Chip Mefford wrote:
>> Was that fascist as in /extreme/ nationalism?
>> Or is that fascist as in pejorative label applied
>> to things we don't like, without any real definition
>> or meaning?
>>
>>
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Re: [Biofuel] Fascists at it again

[Andy Karpay]

For "some reason" Wikipedia definition of fascism has lost its references to
merging corporatism with the state (it's what I don't like about Wikipedia).
However, some common threads can be seen here.

14 Points of fascism: The warning signs
http://oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm

AK
The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin
of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and
possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power
in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone 
  --- Benito Mussolini
   
  The fascist rat bags who think themselves our betters are now promoting
their pharma income. The state is a myth. Mussolini got what all good
fascists deserve. Basically these people will rule you into the ground if
you let them

Chip Mefford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  Was that fascist as in /extreme/ nationalism?
Or is that fascist as in pejorative label applied
to things we don't like, without any real definition
or meaning?


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Re: [Biofuel] Pantone-Reactor

[Andy Karpay]

While working for another scam-artist company we investigated his system.  I
took the 1 week course ($1000) and bought a 3-engine license to build his
system.  I saw the "blue Suburban" run, and witnessed his demo run on pickle
juice, water, and (oh yes, some gasoline).  Notes:  I put my finger inside
the exhaust pipe of the (gasoline) Blue Suburban and it was covered with
soot.  I came to believe that the operating principle (reality) was that he
lowered the pressure in the "fuel mix" tank such that the gasoline vapors
were able to provide fuel to the engine i.e.: the water did nothing but act
as his "smoke and mirrors", as it is said.  We never were able to duplicate
his system in our shop.

I DID purchase 2 anodized aluminum plates that, when slipped into one's
(back) pocket are supposed to relieve back pain (my souvenir of the trip).
To this day my wife still swears by them and still wears both almost every
day.
I am sorry to see him suffering health problems - NO ONE deserves that.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Keith Addison
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 2:12 PM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pantone-Reactor

>If this is Paul Pantone hold on to your wallet.  I met him in around 1998
>with his GEET processor.  He is a scam artist.

http://www.slweekly.com/index.cfm?do=article.details&id=FE7B10D0-1372-FCBB-8
3E8C5C66C046345
Salt Lake City Weekly

Fuel Injected Lunatic

Inventor Paul Pantone hoped to save the world. Now, will the world save him?

By Stephen Dark

Posted 07/26/2007

Led by a bailiff into Judge Royal Hansen's 3rd District Court in West 
Jordan on June 7, Paul Pantone's shuffling gait might have been 
caused by a broken big toe-gone untreated for more than year and a 
half-rather than by his wrist and ankle manacles.

The 56-year-old's tall frame was stooped, his face, gray and long. He 
sat down between his two lawyers and looked up almost in bewilderment 
as Hansen called the hearing to order, the outcome of which Pantone 
has been awaiting for the 16 months of his incarceration in the state 
mental hospital.

A broken toe isn't Pantone's only ailment. He has untreated Hepatitis 
C, persistent migraines, skin rashes, rotten teeth and infected gums. 
But all this, it might be argued, pales beside what he fears will be 
the impact on his health if the hearing's outcome goes against him.

What Hansen has to decide is whether or not the Attorney General's 
Office can forcibly medicate Pantone to make him competent for trial.

The state wants Pantone competent so he can be sentenced on two 
charges of securities fraud, to which he pleaded guilty in October 
2004. Concerns over Pantone's ability to understand legal proceedings 
after his plea agreement led Hansen to commit him for evaluation Dec. 
12, 2005, to the male forensic unit in the Utah State Hospital, which 
lies at the base of the east bench in Provo. But, because of the lack 
of available hospital beds, he spent the next three and a half months 
in Salt Lake County Jail before he was admitted. Four hospital staff 
evaluations found him incompetent. Related to his treatment, court 
documents state, "He exhibits grandiose and persecutory delusions, 
complicated by a personality disorder and a history of substance 
abuse."

The only way Pantone can be sentenced and justice can be served, 
according to the AG's office, is if he takes antipsychotic drugs. 
Pantone and his supporters fear the medications will erase his 
memory, turn him into a zombie-or even kill him.

Pantone's voice, as far as talking to the press, is silenced by 
hospital regulations designed to protect patients' privacy. The only 
clue to Pantone's current thoughts is from his younger brother Rocky, 
who lives in Tennessee and talks to him regularly on the phone.

"I try to talk to him, help him stay calm," he says. "He's confused, 
he's up and down. Š He's pissed and hurting. Š If I read him right, 
he's extremely scared; he doesn't want to be medicated."

This institutionally imposed silence must be frustrating to a man 
who, for decades, hawked inventions to a highly skeptical world. 
Extraordinary Technology magazine publisher Steve Elswick says 
Pantone's a very accomplished inventor. He's also, Elswick says, 
outspoken and egotistical. "You've got to be somewhat egotistical to 
believe you can do something everyone else says is impossible."

Not everyone. Alternative-energy obsessives scattered across the 
United States have long followed Pantone's litigious battles with 
ex-partners and his largely undocumented claims for his 20-year-old 
invention, Global Environmental Energy Technology (GEET), with 
fascination. And then there are those seeking to get rich quick by 
investing in a device that Pantone claims offers, when attached to an 
automobile engine, not only clean exhaust, but also double or even 
triple the gas mileage (see sidebar, p. 22).

With gas prices reaching all-t

Re: [Biofuel] Pantone-Reactor

[Andy Karpay]

If this is Paul Pantone hold on to your wallet.  I met him in around 1998
with his GEET processor.  He is a scam artist.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
robert and benita
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2008 10:20 AM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Pantone-Reactor

Fritz Friesinger wrote:

>Hello all,
>i received lately a Video showing a Dieseldriven car with a modified engin!
>Apparentli this results in great fuelsavings beside very clean burning!
>  
>

Well, that's the claim.  The truth is something very different . . 
.  I've talked to THIS guy at length:

  http://jeremiahsviolins.com/metro.html

Skepticism of Paul Pantone is a GOOD thing!

robert luis rabello
"The Edge of Justice"
"The Long Journey"
New Adventure for Your Mind
http://www.newadventure.ca

Ranger Supercharger Project Page
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/


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Re: [Biofuel] Vaporized gasoline enginesworkasproventotheworldbyShell Oil Company in 1973

[Andy Karpay]

I'm no 'gear-head' but, also to consider that there is approximate 18,000:1
ratio volumetric from liquid to vapor.  Therefore, there could be some
expected advantage to vaporizing the atomized (liquid) fuel inside the
cylinder.  The expansion of the gas alone may account for some
energy/torque, while also using some of the available heat.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Kirk McLoren
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 2:15 PM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vaporized gasoline
enginesworkasproventotheworldbyShell Oil Company in 1973

Talk about grasping at straws.
  The most efficient conversion would be at the highest temperature. It is ,
after all, a HEAT engine. Unfortunately we have no commercial materials that
can withstand a stoichiometric mix. An engine run with a stoichiometric mix
first burns the exhaust valves and if it runs long enough devours the
pistons as well. Hitlers boys researched an engine that ran red hot but
never got it out of the lab.
  The best practical engine I know of is a Bourke. The Experimental Aircraft
Association had and perhaps still publishes a paper about it. Had 50:1
compression for those that understand why.
   
  Kirk




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Re: [Biofuel] O.T.: Gore will run for president as independent

[Andy Karpay]

Dohh! They got me too! (April fools)

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Chip Mefford
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 3:10 PM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] O.T.: Gore will run for president as independent

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Bruno M. wrote:
| News from Grist magazine, they've got this scoop before it reached the
headlines in the bigpapers and TV stations.



This was an April Fools joke.



-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFH8ohzlwL/NsEHg6sRAi5FAJ9xWja3XKivIqniiSHsregZhTnvdgCgtUNs
w1BFat690uyUgzhlOIXXHik=
=ezRQ
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Re: [Biofuel] bush league

[Andy Karpay]

What doesn't make sense to me is that they tell us there is a shortage due
to whatever reason is the reason du Jour.  But yet, I have seen no evidence
of shortages, lack of supply at the pumps or anywhere.  I have not seen
pumps closed, or long lines, or rations.  As long as you've got the money,
there seems to be supply enough.  I have yet to see more bicycles on the
road, or more bus riders on the poorly supported local system.  If supply
and crude oil prices were the true reasons for our high price at the pump
then the oil company's who are "passing this additional cost" along to the
consumers should have had level profit margins from pre-Katrina and Iraq,
but instead they are profiting from selling oil extracted from occupied
countries around the world.  To quote our president: "Mission Accomplished".

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Chip Mefford
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2008 9:19 AM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] bush league

Steve Rhodes wrote:
> Does anyone realize that when the gov was saying there was no surplus of
> crude oil and thus the high prices of gasoline & Exxon's billions of
> quarterly profit Dollars, there were at least 16 fully laden ships waiting
> outside Bolivar Roads  (entrance to Houston) refineries waiting for the
> price to climb before they were brought into the refineries by their
> agents.  It's all a crock of s--- 'this oil shortage'.  It's man made by
the
> bushmeister & fellow cronies. Capnbio

I don't think there is anything particularly 'bush-ite' about this.
It's an old story, as old as Standard Oil, as old as the east india
trading company, or even older.

I too agree there is no oil shortage, as such. But for different
reasons.

I think there is reasonable case to be made that there is 
overconsumption on a few orders of magnitude. There is plenty
of oil, but there is also excessive, careless, and thoughtless
demand.

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Re: [Biofuel] [BULK] Re: Hydrogen Car Sighting

[Andy Karpay]

Did some work with Hydrogen in the 1999's - 2000.  When burned with diesel
(we didn't use biodiesel) it amounts to cleaning up the exhaust, so that
much of the emissions, soot, smoke, etc are virtually eliminated.  In doing
so, you are essentially getting more energy out of the diesel burned (the
'unburned amount' plus the approx 600 btu/ft3 for the H2.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Ken Riznyk
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 1:37 PM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [BULK] Re: Hydrogen Car Sighting

I was at a Penn State lecture on global warming. In the parking lot they had
a hybrid car. Biodiesel and electric. There was also a tank of hydrogen in
the trunk. The fellow there said that the hydrogen boosts the power of the
biodiesel. He didn't seem to know much. I asked if the hydrogen was stored
as a metal hydride and he looked at me blankly and shrugged. He didn't seem
to know how much extra power the hydrogen added. All he knew was that the
fuel tank was 6 gallons and the range of the car was about 300 miles. He
didn't know how much the battery power contributed to the range. Anybody
hear about boosting power with hydrogen? Seems like a lot of extra trouble
to me.
Ken

- Original Message 
From: Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2008 5:38:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [BULK] Re: Hydrogen Car Sighting


Just 
the 
batteries.

Z

On 
Feb 
2, 
2008 
5:20 
AM, 
John 
Mullan 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
Zeke:  
Are 
you 
talking 
about 
$30K 
to 
change 
out 
a 
battery 
pack, 
or 
a
> 
whole 
lithium 
based 
vehicle 
for 
$30K?  
Seems 
to 
me 
that 
would 
be 
a 
real
> 
bargain.
>
> 
Cheers
> 
John
>
> 
Zeke 
Yewdall 
wrote:
> 
> 
...snip...
> 
>  
  
For 
about
> 
> 
$30k, 
you 
can 
fairly 
easily 
get 
100+ 
mile 
range 
on 
a 
plain 
battery 
EV.
> 
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
___
> 
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mailing 
list
> 
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> 
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>
> 
Biofuel 
at 
Journey 
to 
Forever:
> 
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
>
> 
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Biofuel 
and 
Biofuels-biz 
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Re: [Biofuel] [BULK] Re: Hydrogen Car Sighting

[Andy Karpay]

1) if the hydrogen is obtained from methane, or other hydrocarbons then CO2
is generated as a by-product.
2) If not, generally nuclear (pronounced "NU-KU-LER") power is touted as the
"clean" method to generate Hydrogen from, say, water.

Also (he did say "fuel cell") but hydrogen can be burned in a car set-up to
run on methane or propane (but may need adjustments to regulators, and
ratios).

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Frank Oliver
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 12:42 PM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [BULK] Re: Hydrogen Car Sighting

I am confused about your analysis James. How is a fuel cell the same as
a current car technology?

A hydrogen fuel cell has 0 moving parts, and produces electricity for an
electric car. The Fuel Cell is a replacement for batteries.

Frank

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of James McCain Jr
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 8:34 AM
To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [BULK] Re: [Biofuel] Hydrogen Car Sighting
Importance: Low

I am not that excited about hydrogen fuel cells.  Yes it will be better
for the environment, but it is a super inefficient way to fuel a car.
Not to mention it is the same type of setup; you buy your overpriced
car, you now only have one choice on where to get fuel, you pay for
expensive maintenance on an inefficient engine with a zillion moving
parts. 

The better answer to this problem that wouldn't involve an IV like hook
up to fuel companies is ELECTRICITY.  It can be produced tons of
different ways, the car has 7 or less moving parts.  No maintenance and
no IV to the fuel companies.  

James

Alan Petrillo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: John Mullan wrote:
> Maybe just a research vehicle heading to some testing place?

That possibility does exist.  There are several vehicle manufacturers 
that test their vehicles in Florida, so maybe Ford is one of them.


AP

> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>> robert and benita wrote:
>>   
>>> Alan Petrillo wrote:
>>>
>>> 
 I saw a hydrogen fuel cell powered Ford Focus in traffic this
afternoon. 
  It was on I-275 North going across the Howard Frankland bridge
going 
 toward Tampa, Florida.

 On the back of a flatbed truck.
  

   
>>>  . . . because it didn't have the range to get anywhere on its
own?
>>>
>>>  . . . because it couldn't find fuel?
>>>
>>>
>>>: - )
>>> 
>> All of the above?




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Re: [Biofuel] Fwd:Aspartame poisoning

[Andy Karpay]

I agree with Keith.  I just saw a report on Democracy Now! (go Amy Goodman).
http://www.democracynow.org/2007/6/27/headlines#11
from June of 07.  If you search on that site under "Aspartame" there are two
stories.  One has to do with Donald Rumsfeld's involvement in getting
Aspartame approved in the first place.  Think of "FDA approved" as a house
appraisal (for the bank) prior to your purchase.  The appraisal doesn't give
the house's value.  It compares prices recently spent in that neighborhood
to see how it compares.  Too high? No good.  Too low, questions too. 
FDA's rules have been so relaxed they are not interested in any long term
affects.  They simply look at the facts as provided by the food, or drug
manufacturing company, and believe their tests.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:40 AM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fwd:Aspartame poisoning

Hello E.

>Hi Marylynn,
>
>I don't know a thing about snoops.com but what I like about snopes.com is
that they usually give references for the basis of their opinion.

There are references and references though.

>>google snopes.com,  they say this is a hoax

... and they cite as their references such stalwarts in championing the
public interest as the FDA and Elizabeth Whelan's Astroturf group the
American Council on Science and Health, right.

"American Council on Science and Health
"... In the latest years for which information is available, some 40
percent of ACSH's budget was supplied directly by industry, including
a long list of food, drug and chemical companies that have a vested
interest in supporting [CEO Elizabeth] Whelan's message..."
- SourceWatch (many refs and further links):
http://snipurl.com/1wmws

Along with the usual suspects ASCH funders include Monsanto, NutraSweet
and Searle.
`
The FDA is just the food and drug industries' enabling wing, their
Washington Bureau, it's a hub of revolving doors.

Snopes.com is useful but it's not an authority and it's not above the need
for checking. SourceWatch for one is much better:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/

You can find stuff like this there:

"... One thing is certain, despite what appears to be a concerted effort
on the part of aspartame's makers to negate the allegations of health
problems, adverse reactions from aspartame are real.

"This was eloquently borne out in 1996, when Ralph G. Walton, MD,
professor and chairman of the Department of Psychiatry at Northeastern
Ohio University's College of Medicine, conducted an analysis of all the
medical studies-164 of them at the time-dealing with human safety as it
relates to the use of aspartame. The studies were separated into two
categories: 74 of the studies were sponsored by the aspartame industry and
90 of them were non-industry-sponsored studies. Dr. Walton found that of
the 74 studies sponsored by the aspartame industry, 100 percent of them
claimed there were no health problems associated with aspartame use. Of
the 90 studies that had no connections to industry, all but seven of them
identified one or more problems with aspartame use. Interestingly, of the
seven studies that did not find problems, the FDA had conducted six.
Critics suggest that since a number of FDA officials eventually went to
work for the aspartame industry, these six studies should be considered
industry-sponsored research as well."
http://www.westonaprice.org/modernfood/aspartame.html

Or this, how aspartame was approved by the FDA:

Aspartame Gate: When Donald Rumsfeld was CEO of Searle (manufacturers of
aspartame)
http://snipurl.com/1wmwz

More here, about halfway down:

http://www.onlinejournal.com/health/080604Mazza/080604mazza.html
Aspartame, anti-depressants and Bush

Here too:

http://snipurl.com/1wmwv
Biofuel - Rumsfeld +aspartame 43 matches

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8N0z8stino
Aspartame & Rumsfeld

http://snipurl.com/1wmwy
Biofuel - Aspartame - 135 matches

Also this:

"Aspartame Poisoning - NOT an Internet Hoax

"DORway.com opened Searle's "Pandora's" book of facts on aspartame during
September of 1996. For over four years Monsanto (who bought Searle in
1985), their many PR and law firms, visited DORway.com many thousands of
times (documented by IP addresses). The FDA, CDC and other entities
visited, as well. The highly litigious Monsanto was unable to find
anything to use against the site in an effort to close it down and relieve
the growing pressures on its dying aspartame cash cow. Obviously, they
cannot argue with the documentation (the most damning of which comes from
the FDA and sworn testimony).

"While two anti-aspartame Web sites (1996) grew to tens of thousands (as
of October, 2001, Google.com had over 80,000), and while Nutrasweet's 28
million pounds of aspartame sold during 1996 slipped to only 20 million
pounds during 1998, Monsanto sought to counter the truth (and their
negative "good growth") with pro-aspartam

Re: [Biofuel] In other news. Milk labeling controversy in US

[Andy Karpay]

Hi all.  I've been following this milk labeling, and bovine "growth hormone"
controversy for a while now.  A few weeks ago I got a very confusing
thought:  Why is it illegal for ball players to use (human) performance
enhancing drugs, and seems to be a subject for the congress and the US
President to weigh in on, and yet it is OK to feed a very similar formula to
cows to enhance their performance (milk production) even if it makes the
cows sick, causes them potentially shorter life and higher upkeep cost
(medical).  The milk has never been tested for excess hormone, or any other
effects it may have on the cows or humans who consume milk from cows that
use this product?

Merry Christmas to all

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 1:30 PM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] In other news. Milk labelling controvery in US

Hi Chip

>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Hi Chip
>>
>> Aurora Organic Dairy's allegedly organic milk fiasco is another side to
>> the story.
>>
>> http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iEPGS-Y0dThhK9jWDvh0OaaJUfQQD8TGE5RO0
>> Lawsuits Allege Milk Wasn't Organic
>> "These cows are all penned in factory-confinement conditions."
>>
>> Walmart, Target, Costco, Wild Oats are being sued for selling fake
organic
>> milk from Aurora.
>>
>> Aurora itself is currently being sued by consumers in 27 states for
>> selling milk labeled "organic" that was not produced in accordance with
>> the USDA's National Organic Program regulations.
>>
>> The USDA's organic standards are pro-corporate anyway, a lot of real
>> organic farms won't have anything to do with the standards. They say they
>> don't need the label, their customers know them and trust them.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Keith
>
>Yes indeed.
>
>In the US, this is quite true.

Not only in the US, but more so there than most places.

>The Organic movement, a good idea at the
>outset, has been heavily co-opted by the factory farms, and seemingly
>repurposed to get small farmers out of the game. It's heavily
>bureaucratic, and very difficult to remain in compliance unless you have
>a high degree of control over the area wherein the farm resides.

I think it was coopted by the USDA on behalf of the factory farms.

>This is a shame, really. Many folks invested in making these changes,
>and have had the standards shift, costing them money and effort and
>ultimately, a lot of people have dropped out of the program.
>
>Many farmers resent the heck out of the whole process, with good reason.
>A stranger, (and it must be a stranger) comes to *your* farm, goes
>through *your* entire process and establishment with a fine toothed
>comb, and decides if *you* are good enough. Someone you don't even know.

But they don't seem to resent it in other places, in Britain where the
Soil Association are the main organic certifiers, or the Biodynamics
associations in Europe or elsewhere, they're happy to do it. Here too, in
Japan.

Maybe they resent it in the US because they know it's all twisted out of
shape there and it works against them, though they're the ones who did all
the development work, just to have it grabbed by Washington and Walmart et
al.

>I know people who do this. They are hard working, dedicated and
>knowledgeable folks who put a lot of effort into qualifying to be
>inspectors, not just for the work, but to be part of the fix, rather
>than part of the problem. It's very frustrating for all.

It must be. But I'm not sure the NOP can be fixed.

>The talk 'round these parts is that 'local is the new organic'. Lot of
>folks, and I mean a lot, would much prefer food from a local grower,
>over anything labeled organic. This is a good thing, imo.

Definitely a good thing, but there's a downside to it. Hm. Needs a
separate post, later...

>let's see, it took what? 30 years for people to pay attention to
>organic?

Sixty years for organic, 76 years for Biodynamic, if you take 2000 as the
year it changed.

>I don't think we have another 30 to wait for them to pay
>attention to local. The upside is, after visiting a few farmers markets
>over this last year, I am stunned at the level of attendance, and very
>happy to see how fast growers are selling out of their csa shares.

The food sustainability survey results I posted are interesting, it
confirms what we've been saying here for awhile, especially recently.

>It's changing, and it's changing for the better. Lotta work to
>do though.

Definitely again, on both counts.

Regards

Keith






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Re: [Biofuel] In other news. Milk labeling controversy in US

[Andy Karpay]

It's all here.  Monsanto doesn't want any information out that they do not
control.  We cannot say we don't use their product because it IMPLIES  there
is something wrong with it, even if we don't use it because we don't like
the color.  This has gone on forever.  Monsanto 'coincidently' was also the
manufacturer of "agent orange" used in Vietnam, and still claim it is
harmless to humans. Anyone who is sick must be from some other reason.

http://www.foxbghsuit.com/

>BIG SNIP

Not necessarily;

There has been significant push back.

This 'law' (passed under less than auspicious
circumstances) is prompting lawsuits against
the state. Personally, I tend to view lawsuits
as counterproductive, but then again, I also
wish folks would just behave. :)

In short, there has been a lot of flack
over this, and I expect it will get a
lot worse if the ban actually goes into
place.

Pa -for instance- is one of the few
places in the US that one can actually
still buy raw milk, in glass bottles,
directly from the dairy. Some dairys
take this stuff quite seriously.

However, this is a very good insight
into how outfits like Monsanto work.

--

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Re: [Biofuel] Interesting Spin

[Andy Karpay]

This opens a file too large for me to write about.  Can you say Fascism? 
Just Google "Monsanto Milk" and the whole story will be unveiled, if you are
willing to think for yourself.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Ken Dunn
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 12:33 PM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Interesting Spin

I'm sure glad that I can go straight to the source and get beyond this
sort of garbage.

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/211388

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Re: [Biofuel] Something called "nanodiesel" what's the deal with this?

[Andy Karpay]

Doug, see this
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2001_April_27/ai_73706352
I worked on this project, in this field.  It is entirely possible to break
down carbonaceous materials in an oxygen free or deficient atmosphere, to
gas, oil, and carbon.  I never was a believer in the "catalyst", I always
thought it was hocus-pocus.  It was never explained to me how it worked.

At least theoretically, there is enough energy contained in the materials to
create enough heat to break down, the material, and throw off additional
oil/gas beyond what is required to operate the process.  (someone was also
doing this with turkey carcasses near a turkey processing plant).  Think of
it as burning a huge candle and continuing to pour off the liquid wax before
it all burns.  There is also a plant constructed in Japan which uses a high
voltage arc plasma to de-polymerize material (garbage), and one proposed for
a Florida site, to mine the landfill for fuel (waste to energy for a gas
turbine electric generation site).

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
doug swanson
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 8:00 PM
To: Biofuel List
Subject: [Biofuel] Something called "nanodiesel" what's the deal with this?

I'd like to get the opinions of those on this list, regarding the info 
on the following site:

http://www.cleanenergyprojects.com/

from their first page:


A new technology of global importance now offering unrivalled potential 
for energy recycling, waste management and optimized environmental 
protection is about to break through:

CDP (CATALYTIC PRESSURE-LESS DEPOLYMERIZATION (OILING))

New crystalline catalysts combined with a highly innovative process 
technology now allow the competitive production of synthetic oil 
products directly from residual and biologically regenerating raw materials!

The future way of economical production of high quality synthetic Diesel 
fuel:

. After years of intensive catalyst and process research the 
breakthrough of reproducing the natural way of fossil oil production 
within a process duration turned down from hundreds of millions of years 
to now only 3 (three) minutes has finally become reality!
. This causes the synthetic Diesel fuel "NanoDieselT" produced by this 
method to be fully competitive.
. With most of the input materials the quality of the synthetic fuel 
produced by this new ground breaking method is even higher than that of 
regular Diesel fuel available at gas stations.
. Cost per Gallon of Diesel produced between 0,52 & 0,58 US$ without 
Government subsidies.
. Elimination of almost all environmental pollution through inorganic 
transformation of harmful substances into salts and crystals, based on 
the ion changing characteristics of the GP-Cat, our proprietary Catalyst.
. For the first time this method now allows active environmental 
protection as well as optimized energy production from industrial 
residuals, waste and biologically regenerating raw materials in perfect 
combination and free of any conflicts.
. Environmental protection as future leading sources of energy and job 
production

-- 
Contentment comes not from having more, but from wanting less.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

All generalizations are false.  Including this one.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software.


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Re: [Biofuel] Depleted Uranium - was Mindseeds.com.au

[Andy Karpay]

There are NOW some reports getting out (not on mainstream US media) about US
soldiers coming home, getting sick, or having babies with birth defects (due
to DU exposure).  Once the munitions explode they spread and leave the
radioactive residue "everywhere".  It is small enough particulate (even
though heavier than lead) to be airborne and spread by winds.  So,
essentially, complete areas surrounding combat areas are now toxic sites.  

So, who is using chemical warfare?
I'm sure there is more information to be found at www.democracynow.org


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Keith Addison
Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:24 AM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Depleted Uranium - was Mindseeds.com.au

See:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article18242.htm
U.S. Use of Radiological Weapons 
Calls for an International Tribunal
By Mark H. Gaffney
08/23/07 "ICH"

(Long article, 12,600 words.)

>And nobody seems to notice, eh? Except the victims.

... "Long ago, historians of the Vietnam war noted that the intense 
debate about the war that gripped America rarely made much reference 
to the suffering of the Vietnamese people. Only "peaceniks" on the 
far left paid much attention to the two million or more Vietnamese 
who died, to the corpses and torched villages and napalmed children 
that were the living - and dying - reality of the war. In the 
mainstream, where the "serious" discussion unfolded, the only 
question that mattered was: What is this war doing to the USA? Is it 
to our benefit to keep on fighting, or are we better off 
withdrawing?"...
-- The Forgotten Vietnam - Iraq Parallel, by Ira Chernus, August 23, 2007
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/23/3352/

If you talk to Americans now about the Iraq war victims they almost 
always think you mean dead US soldiers.

Best

Keith


>Hi Doug, thanks
>
> >Hi,
> > it may be worth keeping an eye on this site.
> >
> > I have just read a book available from this site (more a 
>leaflet), written by
> >Pauline Rigby called 'Your future with Depleted Uranium'.
> > I found it a bit of an eye-opener. I had never realised exactly 
>what depleted
> >uranium really is: It is the by-product from the enrichment process. It
is
> >still highly radioactive, consisting almost entirely of U-238.
> > The U-238 is 1.7 times heavier than lead, & has incredible
armour-piercing
> >characteristics. It also turns anything it contacts radioactive. This has
> >lead to deaths of servicemen, & civilians, and all the problems of a
> >radioactive area causing birth defects, etc long after the conflict has
> >finished. As a shell is fired, it burns, releasing Uranuim Oxide a deadly
> >poison.
> > The booklet also states that Bush Senior was convicted of war 
>crimes for the
> >use of DU armaments.
> >
> >regards Doug
>
>And nobody seems to notice, eh? Except the victims. But some people
>have been agitating about it for a while, and there has been some
>mainstream news coverage, eg:
>
>http://snipurl.com/1ovjj
>[biofuel] Dirty Bombing
>  Published on Sunday, March 30, 2003 by the Los Angeles Times
>  Uranium Warheads May Leave Both Sides a Legacy of Death for Decades
>
>Lots of responses linked at the end of the page...
>
>Also:
>
>http://snipurl.com/1ovjg
>[biofuel]
>"Depleted Uranium"
>1 - 10 of 112 matches
>
>Worth keeping an eye on this site too! :-)
>
>Best
>
>Keith


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Re: [Biofuel] Random thought

[Andy Karpay]

Don't forget that in the 50's we were told that nuclear power would be
so plentiful and cheap that a mere 'thimble full' of "the fuel" would be
enough to power an entire city, and so cheap that there would be no need
to even meter it.

-Original Message-
From: Chip Mefford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 1:26 PM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: [Biofuel] Random thought

That hit me over the weekend as I was doing a medium distance drive (~ 4
hours), and was listening to NPR as they played up some kinda chat about
nuclear energy, and how greenies are lining up behind it.

It hit me, , ,

"So, who benefits the most from Global Warming?"

Duh!

The so-called Nuclear Energy Industry.

Never mind that there is no way to draw a line between nuclear energy
and nuclear weapons, or if there is, no one in the current political
dialogue has found it.

Never mind that the path To the reactor cuts a horrific swath though
the enviroment, Never mind that it is neither sustainable, nor
renewable. And of course, never mind that the "challenge' of waste
disposal, some 50 years later, remains a challenge that gets bigger
by the day, not smaller.

Never mind that on it's surface, the deals that have been struck for
uranium rights make international behind-the-scenes deals for oil
look like a girlscout cookie sale.

Never mind that when you press for hard facts, they all seem
to creep back behind that veil of 'national security' from whence
all this stuff came in the first place.

Sure, once all those things are successfully ignored, nuclear fuel
happily fissioning away in a 'it's safe, REALLY!, trust us, we'd
never LIE about it' reactor, it looks clean enough.

But it's just funny that these questions never seem to enter the
dialogue, and to even bring them invites the label of luddite.

So, who really benefits?

interesting, that's all.






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Re: [Biofuel] Disney

[Andy Karpay]

"Cut and Run" is a term coined by the Republicans to explain the
complete Democratic solution (in three words or less, the max amount
they can comprehend in one sitting).  I suggest that the opposite (their
solution) is "Stay and Die".

-Original Message-
From: Mike Weaver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2006 7:58 PM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Disney

I think it's closer to two billion a week...and there a surprising 
number of Democrats in on the goodies at Carlyle...

Bob Molloy wrote:

> Hi Fred,
> You mentioned a running "debt' of two billion a month 
> to support the Iraq venture but omitted to say that the money is not 
> spent there, it's spent in the good ole US of A. The dollars go to the

> various members of the Carlyle Group whose military/industrial complex

> supplies American forces worldwide. For Carlisle Group read Bush, 
> Cheny, the Saudi family and a scattering of the top hierarchy of the 
> Republican Party. You didn't think the war was really about Bin Ladin,

> did you?  Google "Carlyle Group for details.
> Regards,
> Bob.
>  
>  
>  Original Message -
>
> *From:* Fred Finch 
> *To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 12, 2006 10:46 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Disney
>
> Let me get this straight...
>
> We goto Afganistan to get OBL, which had bipartisan support...  
>
> But get sidetracked into Iraq to get "WMD" that never existed, had
> limited support, to get the inspectors back into Iraq, but went in
> because Saddam let the inspectors back in, to free an oppressed
> people in a war that would "last less than 6 months" and have
> nearly "Zero casualties,"  to bring democracy to the middle east, 
> and bring specialists from Afganistan to get all the bad guys in
> Iraq, and have 2600+ American military casualties, plus countless
> Iraqi deaths, and civil war, and insurgents, debt to the tune of 2
> billion a month, with limited water and electrical service...
etc.
>
> What were we looking for in Afganistan again?
>
> When you get outmatched in a fight that you should not have
> started in the first place, it is worse than leaving the fight. 
> America is getting it's international backside handed to them on a
> platter and you say that cutting and running is a bad idea.
>
> Well, let's stay the course then,
>
> you go first.
>
> fred
>
> On 9/11/06, *Gregg Davidson* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
>
> *While I do not subscribe to your theory that all presidents
> are idiots, I do think that some are a lot smarter than
> others. When you run away from a bully, you only embolden him
> that much more. I hope that it DOES NOT take another 9/11 to
> wake folks up. *
>
>
> */Jason& Katie <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >/*
> wrote:
> oh, PLEASE, you two. why cant we agree that all presidents are
> idiots no
> matter how many degrees they have(or dont have), and also
> agree that the
> present one has stepped in a pretty big pile. and "we the
> people" usually
> get caught in the middle regardless of affiliation,?
> this would be a REAL step in the right direction.
> Jason
> ICQ#: 154998177
> MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> - Original Message -
> From: Gregg Davidson
> To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
> 
> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 6:21 PM
> Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Disney
>
>
>
>
> Mike Weaver wrote:
> Yeah! And I wish Clinton's legacy would stop forcing us to
> borrow all
> that money - what is it - 2 billion a week?
>
> And I'm really mad about Clinton's Legacy making up all those
> stories
> about WMD in Iraq! "Der Schlickmeister" didn't make up any
> stories during
> his reign. Everything he said was honest to God fact.
>
> And I really wish Clinton's Legacy would follow through on its
> promise
> to catch Osama bin Laden. I do too. He was only interested in
> getting BJ's
> in the "Oral Orifice".
>
> Stop it, Clinton's Legacy, Stop it now! You're all to blame.
> I'm not at
> fault, I wasn't dumb enough to vote for him.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gregg Davidson wrote:
>
>> I hope Disney grows some major cojones, ones the size of 16lb
> bowling
>> balls, calls the Democrat/Liberal bluff, & runs the mini series
>> anyway. Sounds to me like the Clinton Admistration's Legacy
> will stand
>> up to what's in the mini series like a vampire does to sunlight.
>>
>> */Mike Weav

Re: [Biofuel] Has Orwell's 1984 come 22 years later?

[Andy Karpay]

The short answers to your two questions
are:

Yes – 1984 is here “22 years
later”

  And

A lot – (it will get a lot worse)

 

-Original Message-
From: Kirk McLoren
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2006 12:00
PM
To: biofuel
Subject: [Biofuel] Has Orwell's
1984 come 22 years later?

 

++
| Has Orwell's '1984' Come 22 Years
Later?  
|
|   from the his-words-are-still-precient
dept. 
|
|   posted by Cliff on Friday July 28, @23:55
(Privacy) 
|
|   http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/29/0223253
 |
++

[0]gabec asks: "This weekend my mother bought a grille lighter, 
something
like this [1]butane lighter. The self-scanner at Kroger's locked itself
up and paged a clerk, who had to enter our drivers license numbers into
her kiosk before we could continue. Last week my girlfriend bought four
peaches. An alert came up stating that peaches were a restricted item 
and
she had to identify herself before being able to purchase such a
decidedly high quantity of the dangerous fruit. [2]My video games spy 
on
me, reporting the applications I run, the websites I visit, the 
accounts
of the people I IM. My ISP [3]is being strong-armed into a two-year
archive of each action I take online under the guise of catching
pedophiles, [4]the companies I trust to free information are my 
enemies,
[5]the people looking out for me are being watched. As if that weren't
enough, [6]my own computer spies on me daily, [7]my bank has been
compromised, [8]my phone is tapped--has been for [9]years--and [10]my
phone company is A-OK with it. What's a guy that doesn't even consider
himself paranoid to think of the current state of affairs?" The sad 
state
of affairs is that Big Brother probably became a quiet part of our 
lives
a lot earlier. The big question now is: how much worse can it get?

This story continues at:
    http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/29/0223253

Discuss this story at:
    http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=06/07/29/0223253

Links:
    0. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
    1. http://www.broilkingbbq.com/grillpro/products.asp?CID=16
    2. 
http://www.rootkit.com/blog.php?newsid=358
    3. 
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/02/1238237&tid=158
    4. 
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=17180
    5. 
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/15/1922209&tid=158
    6. 
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20060608002958907
    7. 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/23/AR2006062300167.html
    
8. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5399264
    9. 
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=abIV0cO64zJE&refer=#
   
10. http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/21/1718219&tid=158


  







Open multiple messages at once with the all
new Yahoo! Mail Beta. 






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Re: [Biofuel] Fluorescent fuel?

[Andy Karpay]

Logan- think of it this way.  The plant 'consumes' the CO2, we burn it
to which releases CO2, the plant then takes THE SAME CO2 out of the
atmosphere.  So there is a NET 0 addition of new CO2...  As opposed to
burning Coal, oil, natural gas, which is Carbon long ago stored in the
earth (taken out of the atmosphere a long time ago).  Think of it this
way: carbon that is on the surface of the earth is  OK to burn,
let's say.  But carbon that needs to be dug up, drilled, or is otherwise
NOT on the earth's surface should remain where it is, and not be burned
or consumed.

-Original Message-
From: Logan Vilas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 8:07 PM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fluorescent fuel?

The plants require co2 for all of their growth, stem, seeds, leaves,
roots
and we only use a portion of the plant for making fuels. Wouldn't that
left
over part of the plant be using more co2 then is put out by the burning
of
the oil?

Logan Vilas

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of bob allen
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 9:23 AM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fluorescent fuel?

only in that the process in theory is carbon neutral, and replaces 
fossil fuel which is carbon positive.

first we stop increasing the CO2...



Joe Street wrote:
> So if we use a plant to remove CO2 from the atmosphere and that plant 
> makes oil that we then burn and release CO2 to the atmosphere how is 
> that supposed to reduce atmospheric CO2?
> 
> Joe
> 
> Bob Molloy wrote:
> 
> snip
> 
>> Phytoplankton, like other plants, absorb carbon dioxide as they grow.

>> Scientists have examined the possibility of stimulating growth of the

>> single cell plants as a means of reducing the amount of CO2 in the 
>> atmosphere.
>> CO2, liberated by burning fossil fuels like coal, oil and gas, is
widely 
>> held responsible for global warming.
>>  
>> Bio Fuel Systems said its new fuel would reduce CO2, was free of
other 
>> contaminants like sulphur dioxide and would be cheaper than fossil
oil 
>> is now.
> 
> 
> ___
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> 
> Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):
> http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
--
Bob Allen,http://ozarker.org/bob
--
-
The modern conservative is engaged in one of Man's oldest exercises
in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral
justification for selfishness  JKG
 


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Re: [Biofuel] Logic out the window at the White House

[Andy Karpay]

I just viewed the DVD movie "Why we fight".  Look for it either via the
internet for purchase, or to be viewed locally at independent theaters.
It is illustrative and informative.  Should be viewed by all earthlings,
especially those from the United States.


Andy Karpay

-Original Message-
From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 6:05 AM
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Logic out the window at the White House


Tom,

It would be positive, if the oil was an US asset, 
but it is not. Money is an instrument, at the end 
secured by the assets of the country of origin. A 
higher oil price does mean that US have to pay 
more, but other currencies move higher against 
the dollar. The Euro have strengthen from around 
0.89 to over 1.20, which means that US assets 
have lowered its value and are cheaper to buy. US 
assets are moving at a lower value and it is a 
current reversal of the international strengths 
that US built, when the dollar had a high value 
and they bought up a lot of international assets.

Yes, US can cause a lot of havoc, but do not have 
neither the military nor the financial strength 
to maintain a long term occupation and a US 
empire. This means that it is expensive 
fireworks, not a solid long term business. The 
corporations are stateless, in fact the large 
ones are today comparable to a nation. The 
corporations are gaining, not the American people, who are getting
poorer.

Hakan


At 10:57 13/03/2006, you wrote:
>Hi Hakan,
>
>Can you explain how the dollar debt is effected 
>negatively by higher oil prices? If the value of 
>the dollar is pegged to the price of oil doesn´t 
>a doubling in the price of oil halve the 
>effective dollar debt? I imagine that the 
>treasury is working overtime to print up all 
>those hundred dollar bills so the rest of the world can buy oil.
>
>I also imagine that you can cordone off Iran´s 
>southern oil fields with a long term radioactive 
>kill zone. I wonder what Iran´s air strength is?
>
>Tom
>
>
>
>--
>From: Hakan Falk [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Sent: Sun, 12 Mar 2006 20:22:40 -0300
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Logic out the window at the White House
>
>
>Hi Tom,
>
>The dollar debt is effected negatively by higher
>oil prices. However, the only real support that
>the dollar have today, is that it is the oil
>trading currency. If oil would be traded in Euro,
>the dollar would lose its base and US economy
>would be in severe trouble. That is why an oil
>bourse with oil traded in Euro, is worse than any physical attacks and
war.
>
>An attack on Iran is many times more dangerous
>than the Iraq venture. Iran is far more capable
>and motivated, than Iraq ever was. Iraq would be
>the first situation to explode, when the Shiites
>would directly attack. The US presence in Iraq
>and a popular armed resistance, will not be
>possible to "shock and awe" with terror bombings,
>as was possible in the previous Iraq war. Iraq
>will again be the battle field and US will face
>both an uprising and troops from Iran. US will
>again resort to terror bombing, both within Iraq
>and in Iran. It will under no circumstances be a short war.
>
>If US thought that they had some major incident
>in other Arab countries. It will be nothing,
>compared with the guerilla attacks that will
>follow in all Arab countries. If you then
>consider the lack of oil deliveries, that all
>developed countries will suffer, it will be
>difficult for US to wage a war. A very large part
>of the military would be locked up in securing
>deliveries of the scarce oil resources that they
>could get their hands on, only to maintain the
>war effort. The whole world will be hit by an
>economic depression and US will never be able to recover its current
standing.
>
>I really hope that Bush is capable to some
>logical reasoning and common sense, but I am not
>overly optimistic. This time he cannot even hope
>for a token support from the international
>community, which probably will turn against him instead.
>
>Hakan
>
>
>At 23:20 12/03/2006, you wrote:
> >Hi Keith and All,
> >
> >There is little doubt that the U.S. will hit
> >Iran. That oil bourse is supposed to open in a
> >week or two. The only open question is will the
> >U.S. hit before or after it opens. I also think
> >that the U.S. will use nukes albiet low yield
> >ones. Their detonation underground will cause
> >but a small nuclear signature and given the
> >target is allegedly a nuclear facility I imagine
> >and radioactive spillover will be blamed on the
> >facility. I foresee cruise missiles raining on
> >Iraq´s air force, followed by U.S. air a

Re: [Biofuel] Hybrid efficiency

[Andy Karpay]

First, it should be noted that, while relative costs can be informative,
it is difficult to compare the cost of bottled water to gasoline,
diesel, etc.  What would the water cost if you brought a 20 gallon tank
to the "water plant" and filled it?  What would gasoline cost if sold in
1 liter or 4 liter containers off the shelf?

Second:  Hybrid automobiles do not necessarily tout to "save" money.  It
is a system that uses less fuel/mile.  That's less pollution, CO2 etc.
The overall cost to operate may be less, or more than "conventional",
but shouldn't matter.  Those who can afford the up front costs should
use the technology.  (Give up their SUV for a hybrid?).  In the long
run, it is a valuable investment in our future.  Oh yeah, by the way,
You'll also run "lower" than average fuel costs in operation.  I'm sure
there is a pattern of use (long over road miles vs. short in-town
commuting) that will obtain maximum efficiency, and can yield the user
monetary benefit over conventional.  Those outside the curve may not get
the max benefit, but will benefit the world. Cost of battery
maintenance/life is an unknown.

A similar comparison is solar voltaic electric.  Costs now run
$25,000-$30,000 US to solar power a house.  Depending on where you live
the cost and % augmentation required will vary, obviously.  Payback is
probably 15-20 years.  Again, at first more wealthy can afford the
technology.  But as more and more is purchased and manufactured the cost
will come down, technology will improve, and by and by more will be able
to afford - until we see micro generation occurring at most houses.
Power plants will still be required to supplement, and for industry, but
a large percent can be produced this way.  Point is, that at first the
cost is almost unreachable for most, but further use will bring it in
for all, and for the betterment of the world.  If as much money were
subsidized into solar as they use for nuclear, coal (and the war) etc it
wouldn't be too long before we all had collectors on our houses.




Hakan,

The price depends on volume purchased and it doesn't make much
sense. 
Distilled water costs 60 cents to 1.50 for a gallon depending on brand.
1/2 
liter bottled water costs 1 dollar, but at the same store I can buy 1
gallon 
of the same brand for .80 cents. I just have to walk down the isle
instead 
of grabing it at the checkout counter. Then you can buy filtered water
for 
as cheap as 30 cents a gallon. At least that's the local grocery store
here 
in Louisiana, USA

So if you buy water by the 1/2 liter it is more expensive then gas,
but 
gallon by gallon it's 1/3rd the price or cheaper.

Logan Vilas
Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc.

- Original Message - 
From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] hybrid efficiency


>
> David,
>
> I do not understand why it is silly to want to know the facts about
> the following,
>
> Jeromie Reeves wrote:
>
>>Are you serious? N. America has cheap fuel? Please show me this cheap
>>fuel as I pay WAY
>>more for a gallon of gas then I do a gallon of bottled water.
>>
>>Jeromie
>>
>>Andrew Netherton wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I'll bet that research would show a mighty quick return on investment
>>>if they had done the study based on European fuel costs, and not our
>>>cheaper-than-bottled-water fuel here in North America.
>>>
>>>Andrew Netherton
>
> I live in Europe and we pay WAY more for the fuel than bottled water.
>
> Hakan
>
>
> At 22:44 09/03/2006, you wrote:
>>Hakan Falk wrote:
>> > That means that bottled water is more expensive than gasoline, as I
>> > understand,
>> >
>>
http://www.bairdpet
ro.com/gasoline_prices/index.htm
>> > @ $1.453 per gallon.
>> >
>> > So, what was wrong with the original statement?
>> > Nothing as I understand it.
>> >
>>
>>This is just silly.
>>
>>People want to make a point that gasoline is cheap in the US so they
>>come up with something that makes it sound cheaper than water.
>>
>>It's not enough that we're going to compare gasoline, an industrial
>>fuel, to food quality water that's packaged for individual
consumption.
>>
>>Now we're going to compare the industrial, bought in large dollar
>>quantities, price of gasoline without any kind of road or sales tax to
>>water packaged for individual consumption with any and all applicable
>>taxes applied.
>>
>>If you really want to compare the price of gasoline to water, how
about
>>using the price of water from the water company?  Oh, right, it's
>>because they charge cents per cubic foot and all of a sudden our
>>comparison looks silly.
>>
>>
>>Gasoline IS cheap in the US.  It's not highly taxed compared to the
rest
>>of the world, and it doesn't include any of the external costs which
>>might double or triple the price.  It doesn't include the costs of its
>>use (global warming, pollution, health side-effects), the costs of
it's
>>production (pollution, economic an

[Biofuel] Thanx Keith

[Andy Karpay]

Thanks Keith.  I'm back IN, receiving, and loving it.



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[Biofuel] excessive bounces

[Andy Karpay]

Keith:
I guess I've been dropped.  My reply to the 'bounce' notice was
returned.
I've talked to my isp and they have turned on/off the bounce protection.

I should be good now.  Thanks

Andy Karpay
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: [Biofuel] Rammed down our throats

[Andy Karpay]

Um Monsanto in the news again?  I followed the BGH story fairly
close, when the reporters were fired for trying to air a show about the
Growth hormone fed to cows (made by Monsanto)
http://www.foxbghsuit.com/
It was found that companies who put "Contains no hormones" or other
words to imply that they don't use BGH were attacked by Monsanto and the
lawyers, that they were implying somehow it was bad, and shouldn't
advertise that they don't use it.  I believe Canada has banned its use,
and the US has decided that since it is injected in cows, it is not a
human issue.
Glad to have friends like you (all) in the world.

Andy



Message: 1
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:21:50 +0900
From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Biofuel] Rammed down our throats (GMOs)
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed"

http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/Newsletter/Sept05Rammeddownourt 
hroats/index.cfm
Sept 05
Spilling the Beans, September 2005

Jeffrey Smith travels this month to South Africa. Here is a reprint 
of a hard hitting interview with him by noseweek, an influential 
South African investigative magazine.

Rammed down our throats

Jeffrey Smith, author of Seeds of Deception, the best-selling book on 
genetic engineering, spills the beans to noseweek about the hidden 
dangers in the foods we eat and the way massive seed and agrichemical 
corporations such as Monsanto are manipulating governments and 
science to foist their questionable products on us. South Africa 
(along with Brazil and India) is one of Monsanto's key targets.

noseweek: What motivated you to write 'Seeds of Deception'?
Jeffrey Smith: In addition to having the inside scoop on many of the 
dangers of GM foods, I was also aware of several scandalous stories 
about the biotech industry that would make good reading. Scientists 
were offered bribes or threatened. Evidence was stolen. Data was 
omitted or distorted. Government employees who complained were 
harassed, stripped of responsibilities, or fired. Laboratory rats fed 
a GM crop developed stomach lesions and seven of the 40 died within 
two weeks. The crop was approved. When a top scientist tried to alert 
the public about other alarming discoveries, he lost his job and was 
silenced with threats of a lawsuit. The warnings of US government 
scientists were ignored and denied by the Food and Drug 
Administration, whose policy chief was a former attorney, and later 
vice president, for Monsanto. A University of California professor 
claimed he was threatened by a senior Mexican government official who 
allegedly implied, "We know where your children go to school," trying 
to get him to withdraw an incriminating paper from publication. And 
news reports about GMOs were cancelled due to threats from Monsanto's 
attorneys.

I figured that these stories alone would be fascinating to readers. 
So I weaved the science and facts about the technology into the 
stories, and the book became the international bestseller on the 
topic.

What is your interest in Africa?
Many senior African officials I have met at various international 
conferences have confided that they have been pressurised by the US 
government and biotech companies, and have little access to the type 
of information that I have documented. I hope to pierce the biotech 
myths that advocates propagate, so that the public and Africa's 
leaders can make decisions based on facts, not spin.

Scientists representing the biotech industry claim that GM foods have 
been extensively tested and are safe. They say that anti-GM 
campaigners like you are unscientific and base their arguments on 
emotion. Can you comment?A recently published linguistic analysis of 
biotech advocates concludes what many of us have observed for years. 
Using unscientific, emotional, and even irrational arguments, GM 
proponents attack critics as unscientific, emotional and irrational. 
In reality, critics demand more science, not less. We demand facts, 
not PR hype.

There are many ways in which a GM food could create toxins, 
allergens, carcinogens, or nutritional problems. The process of 
inserting a gene into a DNA can dramatically disrupt the normal 
genes. One study showed that as many as 5% of the natural genes 
changed their levels of expression when a single gene was inserted. 
Genes can get turned off or deleted, switched on permanently, 
scrambled, duplicated, or relocated. Gene insertion coupled with 
growing cells from tissue culture, creates hundreds or thousands of 
mutations throughout the genome. On top of all this, the inserted 
gene can get mutated, truncated, or blended with the crop's natural 
gene code. And it appears that the inserted genes get rearranged over 
time as well. Any of these changes can create serous problems in 
themselves, or set in motion a chain of reactions that can lead to 
problems.

Tragically, the studies conducted on GM crops are not d

[Biofuel] Biodiesel gunks up engines in Washington State (DB)

[Andy Karpay]

It seems the worst thing mentioned in the article was changing fuel
filters. Probably gunk from the dino fuel.

BTW- the article mentions that we don't have enough acreage to grow
enough vegetable oil to replace just the diesel being currently consumed
in this country. Anyone know if that is a reasonable statement?


> Follow up
> http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/249964_gbio28.html
>
> DB wrote:
>
>>I heard this report on NPR last week. They were interviewing some govt
>>person about biodiesel in the ferryboat engines. All they said was
that it
>>gunked up the engines. Anybody there in Washington state have any more

>>info
>>on this matter?  DB




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[Biofuel] How a White House "Cabal" Hijacked U.S. Foreign

[Andy Karpay]

Keith-
It does my heart good seeing you referring to Amy Goodman, and her
excellent reporting on Democracy Now.  That entire transcript can be
read, or streamed at www.democracynow.org along with additional good
info.

By the way, Today Maxine Waters discussed how the Col. Was "forgetful"
regarding the facts surrounding Aristide's ouster from Haiti.  Why in
world did our government not protect the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED
PRESIDENT of that country?  Seems to me that would be the cornerstone of
democracy, and this president should have fought to defend THAT, instead
of delivering our "democracy" via bombers and US Marines.

Happy Thanksgiving.



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[Biofuel] Jeep Liberty CRD

[Andy Karpay]

Interesting post.  I was looking at the Jeep Liberty diesel, (back when
...) and have just thrown out the literature I collected.  The glossy
they (the dealer) supplied me stated compatibility for B20.  In fact,
the units were shipped with (B20) in the tank, I think to make the
exhaust smell less 'diesel' for sales purposes.

I wondered why not B100 other than component compatibility etc?  I am
more interested in determining if it will run on WVO at 100%, or 50% or
what?  I'm finding that blending WVO with percent dino is (so far)
acceptable (1981 Mercedes 300SD).  I'm expecting to need higher percent
(50%?) diesel for the cold winter starts we are expecting here in
Florida.  Other than viscosity issues, anybody know what happens to WVO
at lower (say 35-40F) temps?


If they'd let me put about 10 gallons of my finest processed WVO into
the CRD engine's tank and run a few miles, and if it ran, I'd buy the
sucker.  If it didn't, well, they'd have to pump the tank out I guess.
It's a gamble I won't take.


Message: 11
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:48:12 -0600
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Biofuel] Jeep Liberty CRD
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=iso-8859-1


After doing some (about 3 hours worth) of research, I have not found any

straight answers regarding the use of bio-diesel in the Jeep Liberty
with 
the VM 2.8 liter CRD (common rail diesel). As a state and ASE certified 
master mechanic at a Chrysler/Jeep dealership, my coworkers and I have
alot 
of interest in the compatibility of bio-diesel with this new engine
option. 
DCX and VM Industries both state that #2 diesel is the preferred fuel
but 
don't say anything about bio-diesel in any percentage. My interest is in

making my own WVO bio-diesel to use in a Liberty but also in the 
compatibility and availability of the "premixed" BDs (B2, B20, ETC) in
the 
greater Detroit area. Particularly in the Warren, Eastpoint, Roseville 
areas. Does anyone have and hands on experience with the Liberty CRD?




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[Biofuel] fuel from dead turkeys, and plasma technology

[Andy Karpay]

I've followed this one since seeing an article in "Discover" magazine,
and having worked on a similar project
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/11/1125_031125_turkeyoil.ht
ml

One of many such technologies.
http://www.magnegas.com/

I can also post pictures of the device I built that looks awfully
similar :) 
Andy

**



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[Biofuel] changing trash into fuel

[Andy Karpay]

I've seen this before, and it works.  Worked about a year on a similar
project.  The problem, as I see it, is what energy source is strong
enough to create the plasma?  If you believe in the law of conservation
of energy (which I do) then you need either a big wire to the power
plant, or else a VERY LARGE solar collection system to make enough
power.  We experimented with a 450kw marine diesel generator.  I don't
remember the numbers but can tell you this: starting with say, 10-20
gallons of (water, anti-freeze, pig manure, whatever) you could run
creating about 15-20 SCFM of Hydrogen gas with CO and other trace
hydrocarbon gases.  A great amount of heat is also generated (about
400kW).  So, unless you have a use for the heat, you have created 400 kW
worth of (waste) heat and about 50 kW worth of gas.  And that assumes no
other losses.  Then you must collect, filter and compress the collected
gas.  Is that free?
Anyone who says they have an operational unit is looking for stock
'investors', and I would be leery of giving more than 10 cents.  Yes, it
can be done, but is economically infeasible, IMHO.  
Also note: the waste material you are reacting in the plasma reactor
doesn't go away fast.  Run all day and you'll loose about 5 gallons?
(maybe 10? OK, 20)  We're talking about running a half meg generator to
make 10 gallons (if that) go away?  If interested, I can find links to
those doing it.

Andy



Message: 7
Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 14:31:36 -0600
From: Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] changing trash into fuel
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

http://www.nrel.gov/csp/lab_capabilities.html#hfsf
I had read a few years ago about NREL using their solar furnace to
turn waste into plasma.  At the time they were just trying new ideas
to get rid of toxic waste, but solar is a possible fuel source for a
plasma reduction unit that doesn't use electricity.  At the time they
were saying that this concentrator could produce the hottest man made
temperature outside of a hydrogen bomb.  I saw a piece of 1/2" high
strength steel sheet with a 2" hole blasted through the middle in
about two and a half seconds.

On 9/15/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The plasma torch system of changing trash into fuel appears to
> be catching on in Japan. This article says it can produce three to
> four times as much energy in carbon-rich gas, and 50% more
> energy than it uses in the form of hydrogen gas. Does anyone
> know more about it?
> 
> htmttp://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2004-02-26-hot-garbage
> _x.htm
> 
> "Hot trash-to-fuel technology gathering steam By Timothy
> Gardner, Reuters
> 
> NEW YORK ? Got garbage? Toxic trash? Zap it with a torch three
> times hotter than the sun and gather the resulting gas to fuel
> pollution-free cars and home power units.
> 
> It may seem like an idea out of a mad scientist's notebook, but
> the method ? known as plasma torch technology ? is gaining
> acceptance with governments and corporations, especially
> those with growing waste problems.
> 
> "If you can reduce trash and at the same time produce a valuable
> gas, more power to you," said Charles Russomanno, a U.S.
> Department of Energy renewable energy expert.
> 
> Hospital waste, municipal trash and polychlorinated biphenyls
> (PCBs), an industrial compound suspected of causing cancer,
> all can be blasted with a plasma torch to make gases that can
> be burned to produce electricity.
> 
> Companies including privately owned Westinghouse Plasma
> Corp., spun off from Westinghouse Corp., Georgia-based
> Geoplasma, LLC, and British-based Tetronics Plasma ionize air
> or other gases until they conduct electricity. The process is
> similar to what goes on in a fluorescent lightbulb ? only at an
> extreme temperature of 30,000 degrees Fahrenheit.
> 
> Plasma torches break waste into an obsidian-like stone, heavy
> metals that can be recovered for resale, and carbon and
> hydrogen-rich gases that burn like natural gas. One company,
> Startech Environmental, takes the process a step further, refining
> the gas through a membrane to make pure hydrogen gas for fuel
> cells.
> 
> Hydrogen quest
> 
> Automobile and energy companies have invested billions of
> dollars in hydrogen fuel cells that produce power through a
> chemical reaction, with water vapor as the only byproduct.
> 
> President Bush has encouraged the race to hydrogen by
> seeking for next year's budget $228 million, a 43% increase, to
> develop fuel cell cars and suitable service stations. Last year, he
> launched a five-year, $1.2 billion research initiative with the aim
> of reducing dependence on foreign oil and putting fuel cell cars
> on the road by 2020.
> 
> Japan, where dumping costs are high, is becoming a world
> leader in plasma technology. In 2002, Hitachi Metals along with
> Utashinai City, helped build the first plasma plant, which
> produces 8 megawatts

[Biofuel] Fuel from dead cats

[Andy Karpay]

There was a company doing something similar, working next to a turkey
processing plant, turning the entrails, feet, heads, feathers, etc into
oil, gas, and minerals.  Cats are not unique in their carbonaceous make
up. 



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[Biofuel] Biodiesel shelf life - energy extraction

[Andy Karpay]

I suspect the mis-information is from dapplers, who do not know the
difference between biodiesel, WVO, SVO - as I hear from many people
talking.

A comment on extracting energy from tides, wind etc:  I have thought
about the results of energy extraction from "earth generated" sources.
While certainly possible, I think the amount extracted from, say, the
Gulf Stream, or Wind, is relatively negligible (I haven't done any calcs
on this)  You've heard the theory "Line up all the cars facing one way
and all accelerate at one time to change earth's rotation":  Can't be
done.
Solar Energy will also cause a diminishment of, well, solar energy to
the earth surface.  It is returned as heat from the operation of the
electrical device, motor, or water heat exchanger.

The Gulf Stream is a function of many things such as temperature and
salinity differentials.  It has been suggested that the melting ice caps
will cause enough salinity change to cause changes in the gulf stream.
So, it could be argued that if extracting energy from the stream reduces
CO2 emissions, it would be a "lesser evil" (?).  Obviously, too much of
a good thing could be damaging.

Regards to all
Andy Karpay

>>Who is putting about mis- or disinfo that biodiesel has a very short
>>shelf-life?
>>
>>We keep getting enquiries from people who seem to think so.
>>
>>"Does the biodiesel have a shelf life?"
>>
>>Or:
>>
>>"I read somewhere that biodiesel has a short shelf life."
>>
>>And so on and on and on. "Somewhere", hm.
>>
>>Any ideas where this BS is coming from?
>>
>>Best
>>
>>Keith Addison
>>Journey to Forever
>>KYOTO Pref., Japan
>>http://journeytoforever.org/




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[Biofuel] Thanks to Keith

[Andy Karpay]

By the way Keith, I have a hard time just reading the posts, and keeping
up with most of the threads, or the ones of interest for me.  Whatever
you do keep and maintain this is OK with me.  Thanks for all YOUR HARD
WORK (The President would be proud of you :) )
Andy



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[Biofuel] Vacation is over

[Andy Karpay]

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2005 08:15:34 -0400 (Eastern Standard Time)
From: "Jerry Eyers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vacation is Over... an open letter from Michael
Moore   to George W. Bush
To: 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>Have you ever worked for the federal government?  Do you know the real

Actually, yes.  That is why I know what I know, and am amazed at times
that the government can accomplish anything! :-) (*doh*)
BUT THAT IS THEIR PRIMARY FUNCTION

>dedicated, intelligent and caring people (Democrats) took it to the

And Republicans, I don't think this follows any "party" line, but rather
a
more conservative/liberal line, not party lines.  There hasn't been a
presi that has followed "party" lines for several election cycles.

>They chose to have no follow on plan in Iraq.  It's eerily similar to
NA.
THEY ALSO CHOSE TO HAVE NO ANTI TERRORISM PLAN BEFORE 9/11.  RUMSFELD
WAS SUPPOSED TO "HEAD" THE ANTI-TERRORISM GROUP, BUT NEVER HAD ONE
MEETING!!!

True.  Their goal in Iraq was different than any other (like
Afghanistan).
In Afghanistan their goal was to topple the regime and the entire ruling
body and replace it with a different one (not learn the lesson from
Russia??)  BUT THE TALIBAN IS BACK IN BUSINESS- - - -
while
in Iraq, the goal was to get one man, and minimize the collateral
damage. (OOPS, WELL ONE OUT OF 2 AINT BAD)
They should have known that wasn't going to work.  When they tried to
arrange post war reconstructionist, they were blasted for trying to make
their "constituents" wealth (remember a certain film) so they were
gun-shy
when it came to Iraq, and did nothing.  Neither was a good approach.

But, neither of these incidents have anything to do with N.O., nor the
lack of response to N.O.  ALTHOUGH I AGREE THAT BUSH HAD LITTLE TO DO
WITH POST HURRICANE HELP, HE DID CUT FUNDS FOR FEMA, LEVEE WORK.  IN
ADDITION, NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS WERE BUSY "FIGHTING TERRORISM" IN IRAQ
AND AFGHANASTAN AND IRAN (OOOPS - YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO KNOW THAT YET).

QUESTION: WHAT IF "AL KADA" HAD OPENED THE LEVEE?  WHERE'S THE PLAN??
WHERE'S 'HOMELAND SECURITY' OR "HOMELAND INSECURITY"
JMHO - AK

That blame falls squarely on D.H.S., not the
presi.  He had (to his mind) placed those in position that were supposed
to handle that kind of incident.  His fault is that when he saw they
were
not doing their job, he should have stepped in and took command
(i.e. job of commander and chief) and got the ball rolling.  He didn't.
That's where his fault is in this incident.  YEAH - HE CUT HIS
FUNDRAISING TRIP SHORT AND FLEW OVER THE CITY.  TOLD HIS WORKER BEES
THEY BETTER DO SOME OF THAT 'HARD WORK'.  NOW IT'S ALL BETTER.
 
Let's not spout political garbage and rhetoric that you hear in the
media,
let's look at the facts.  He didn't respond to the incident when he saw
that the folks he put in charge were not doing their job.  That's his
failure as a leader.  It has nothing to do in this case with
conservatism
or lack there of, or any war anywhere, but rather a lack of good
leadership
with regard to this incident.  
IT HAS TO DO WITH CONTINUING CUTTING TAXES (REMEMBER, WE HAD A SURPLUS?
AND IT'S 'YOUR MONEY' ?) NOW WE HAVE A DEFICIT, AND TAX CUTS CONTINUE.
AND FUNDING FOR PROJECTS DIMINISHES WITH DWINDLING FUNDS.
THOSE LUCKY FOLKS IN N.O. CAN BUILD THE CITY BACK ON THEIR SAVED
INHERITENCE (DEATH)TAX ALONE. (LOL) (BTW: FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW, THE
INHERITENCE TAX APPLIED ONLY TO MONEY OVER 1 MILLION OR 5 MILLION (SAME
DIFFERENCE FOR ME).


Now, is this starting to show a pattern??  Possibly.  POSSIBLY??? HE
SHOWS A PATTERN OF SLEEPING IN CLASS AND GETTING THE ANSWERS THE DAY
BEFORE THE TEST FROM RUMMY OR CHENEY.  AK

Jerry*



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[Biofuel] How close to this are we?

[Andy Karpay]

fas.cism   n.

   1. often Fascism
 1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority
under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the
opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of
belligerent nationalism and racism.
 2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating
such a system of government.
   2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

___

-- 
Mike K
AntiFossil
MN, USA

For in reason, all government without the 
consent of the governed is the very definition 
of slavery:
Jonathan Swift
-- next part --




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Re: [Biofuel] Is Katrina the end to Bush's conservatism

[Andy Karpay]

Tim Wise, who is a brilliant anti-racism activist, and lived in New
Orleans 1986-1996, just sent us this...We will continue to forward his
commentaries on the unpreventable hurricane, and its preventable
aftermath, over the coming days...
-- Forwarded Message
From: Tim Wise <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2005 17:03:23 -0500
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: article on Katrina

I have been paralyzed this last few days, unable to write anything.

That changed today.

This is the first of several things I'm going to be getting off my
chest.
Hope you all find them useful, or confirming, or cathartic, or whatever.
If
not, just delete them and move on I guess.
_


A God With Whom I am Not Familiar
By Tim Wise

This is an open letter to the man sitting behind me at La Paz today, in
Nashville, at lunchtime, with the Brooks Brothers shirt:

You don't know me. But I know you.

I watched you as you held hands with your tablemates at the restaurant
where
we both ate this afternoon. I listened as you prayed, and thanked God
for
the food you were about to eat, and for your own safety, several hundred
miles away from the unfolding catastrophe in New Orleans.

You blessed your chimichanga in the name of Jesus Christ, and then
proceeded
to spend the better part of your meal--and mine, since I was too near
your
table to avoid hearing every word--morally scolding the people of that
devastated city, heaping scorn on them for not heeding the warnings to
leave
before disaster struck. Then you attacked them--all of them, without
distinction it seemed--for the behavior of a relative handful: those who
have looted items like guns, or big screen TVs.

I heard you ask, amid the din of your colleagues "Amens," why it was
that
instead of pitching in to help their fellow Americans, the people of New
Orleans instead--again, all of them in your mind--chose to steal and
shoot
at relief helicopters.

I watched you wipe salsa from the corners of your mouth, as you nodded
agreement to the statement of one of your friends, sitting to your
right,
her hair neatly coiffed, her makeup flawless, her jewelry sparkling.
When
you asked, rhetorically, why it was that people were so much more decent
amid the tragedy of 9-11, as compared to the aftermath of Katrina, she
had
offered her response, but only after apologizing for what she admitted
was
going to sound harsh.

"Well," Buffy explained. "It's probably because in New Orleans, it seems
to
be mostly poor people, and you know, they just don't have the same
regard."

She then added that police should shoot the looters, and should have
done so
from the beginning, so as to send a message to the rest that theft would
not
be tolerated. You, who had just thanked Jesus for your chips and
guacamole,
said you agreed. They should be shot. Praise the Lord.

Your God is one with whom I am not familiar.

Two thoughts.

First, it is a very fortunate thing for you, and likely for me, that my
two
young children were with me as I sat there, choking back fish tacos and
my
own seething rage, listening to you pontificate about shit you know
nothing
about.

Have you ever even been to New Orleans?

And no, by that I don't mean the New Orleans of your company's sales
conference. I don't mean Emeril's New Orleans, or the New Orleans of
Uptown
Mardi Gras parties.

I mean the New Orleans that is buried as if it were Atlantis, in places
like
the lower 9th ward: 98 percent black, 40 percent poor, where bodies are
floating down the street, flowing with the water as it seeks its own
level.
Have you met the people from that New Orleans? The New Orleans that is
dying
as I write this, and as you order another sweet tea?

I didn't think so.

Your God--the one to whom you prayed today, and likely do before every
meal,
because this gesture proves what a good Christian you are--is one with
whom
I am not familiar.

Your God is one who you sincerely believe gives a flying fuck about your
lunch. Your God is one who you seem to believe watches over you and
blesses
you, and brings good tidings your way, while simultaneously letting
thousands of people watch their homes be destroyed, and perhaps ten
thousand
or more die, many of them in the streets for lack of water or food.

Did you ever stop to think just what a rancid asshole such a God would
have
to be, such that he would take care of the likes of you, while letting
babies die in their mother's arms, and old people in wheelchairs, at the
foot of Canal Street?

Your God is one with whom I am not familiar.

But no, it isn't God who's the asshole here, Skip (or Brad, or Braxton,
or
whatever your name is).

God doesn't feed you, and it isn't God that kept me from turning around
and
beating your lily white privileged ass today either.

God has nothing to do with it.

God doesn't care who wins the Super Bowl.

God doesn't help anyone win an Academy Award.

God didn't get you your last raise, or your SUV.

And if God is even half as tired as I am of having to listen to

[Biofuel] Source for WVO

[Andy Karpay]

Manny: it sounds like you're in the US.  One of the biggest recyclers is
Griffin Industries.  Most of their plants process the WVO to soaps and
commercial cleaners, some ship to KY where they make BioD.  I don't
think they'll sell their raw "feed stock" to you as it might seem like a
conflict of interest.  To be above boards they'd need to charge taxes,
road tax, etc and it might get sticky.

In addition, for all the reasons you want to make it happen, they DON'T
WANT IT TO HAPPEN.  What would happen to their business if all the
restaurant's WVO went to people fueling cars?  It is the same reasons
the US had the democratically elected president of Chile assassinated
(1973 - Allende).  Why was that?  "What would the US do if a "Socialist"
country actually succeeded?"  That wouldn't be good for OUR business,
now, would it?  Same in Argentina, Honduras, Cuba,  and today,
Venezuela.

I suggest you find an agreeing restaurant who will give you the WVO and
collect it yourself.  Perhaps, as I do, I use a few different ones, and
still don't take it all, so the collector still comes and gets the
bottoms every so often.  If the contract ends with the collection
company then you'll also need to supply a collection barrel for them to
use.  

A friend of mine has an agreement with a restaurant or two where they
put the oil into the original 35# box/plastic containers.  He simply
picks it up.  For that I believe he takes care of the one's who actually
take the time to do that with some home made soaps, and other favors. 

Look up "rendering" or "trap grease".  Or look on the side of the 
restaurant barrel.

Manny Elgarresta wrote:

> Hello!  this is my first post to the list.  I am a newcomer to 
> biofuel, but I am quickly learning a lot, thanks in no small part to 
> this list.  For example, just a week ago I thought the FuelMeister was

> great!  Now I can see it is an overpriced and underperforming. 
>  
> I have not yet decided on going with biodiesel or SVO, but as I learn 
> more, I am leaning towards BD. 
>  
> Regardless of my ultimate choice, I am going to need a source for 
> veggie oil that's cheap and convenient. 
>  
> Obviously the cheapest source is free restaurant oil.  I know that.  
> Thanks.
>  
> Another idea I am playing with is to set up a 300 to 500 gallon tank 
> next to my garage and buy in bulk from a recycler of WVO.  The trouble

> is, I can find nothing in google, Alta Vista, etc on the prices of 
> this product, or even if it is available in those relatively small 
> quantities.  If I can get it for say, a dollar a gallon or less, it 
> will still be a huge moeny saver for me, and I dare say much more 
> convenient than collecting my own.
>  
> You may think I am lazy...and you would be right.. but there IS 
> another reason for my wanting to find an ultra-convenient way for 
> doing this.  The area I live in is chock full of popular 
> international celebrities, like Ricky Martin, the Bee Gees, J-Lo, etc,

> and I want to "show off" this biofuel thing to the whole 
> neighborhood.  Now, while I may have fun with the DIY aspect of 
> getting my own WVO for free, and I would love to save the extra money 
> free WVO represents, I also want to make using WVO MORE CONVENIENT 
> than going to the gas station.  If I can accomplish that, start 
> getting some of my more famous neighbors to convert to this, and put 
> the stories on TV (I'm a freelance TV producer), the movement may get 
> a shot in the arm.
>  
> So...does anyone know of a WVO recycling plant I can call?  Or at 
> least the correct search words I can plug into google?



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[Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day

[Andy Karpay]

It would seem that NOT buying gas on Sept 1 will do nothing.  If
errands, and gasoline (burning) continues without BUYING it will only be
delayed until, say, Sept 2, or 3.  You'd need a global (or at least
national) NO DRIVE WEEK.  If everyone didn't drive, or use gasoline for
a week it could cause a dip in their profits.  I would imagine that if
we were able to cut our gasoline purchasing down to ONE GALLON PER WEEK
FOR THE ENTIRE NATION that they would charge 1 billion dollars for that
gallon, and find a reason because it was so expensive to produce and
transport that ONE GALLON.  Better you should not USE any petroleum
products on Sept 1.  Walk or bicycle, or bio, or veggie instead.
I suggest reading it for yourself at the link previously provided by
Stan (see below).  It reiterates what I have just spewed, and should
have just copied it to save my finger's energy (veggie powered).

Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 02:37:32 -0400
From: Stan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sept 1 declared no buy gas day


This is mostly an incorrect rumor. 
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/nogas.asp - It'd better serve 
everyone to forward accurate information about alternatives to
petroleum.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>This was forwarded to me, so I am sending it to all of  you to 
>forward if you want to.
>
>
>It has been calculated that if everyone in the United States and 
>Canada did not purchase a drop of gasoline for one day and all 
>at the same time, the oil companies would choke on their 
>stockpiles.
>
>At the same time it would hit the entire industry with a net loss of 
>over 4.6 billion dollars which affects the bottom lines of the oil 
>companies.
>
>Therefore September 1st has been formally declared "stick it up 
>their behind " day and the people of these two nations should not 
>buy a single drop of gasoline that day.
>
>The only way this can be done is if you forward this e-mail to as 
>many people as you can and as quickly as you can to get the 
>word out.
>
>Waiting on the government to step in and control the prices is not 
>going to happen. What happened to the reduction and control in 
>prices that the Arab nations promised two weeks ago?
>
>Remember one thing, not only is the price of gasoline going up 
>but at the same time airlines are forced to raise their prices, 
>trucking companies are forced to raise their prices which effects 
>prices on everything that is shipped. Things like food, clothing, 
>building materials, medical supplies, etc. Who pays in the end? 
>We do!
>
>We can make a difference. If they don't get the message after 
>one day, we will do it again and again.
>
>So do your part and spread the word. Forward this email to 
>everyone you know.
>
>Mark your calendars and make September 1st a day that the 
>citizens of the United States and Canada say "enough is 
>enough"
>



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[Biofuel] biodiesel from plastic

[Andy Karpay]

Message: 8
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2005 16:01:50 -0500
From: "John Mullan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel from plastic
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org

But what are you going to burn to attain "high enough temperatures" to
break down the plastics so you can get more fuel to process more
plastics?

Well, this borders on "over unity", (which it is not), and is mostly
theoretical in nature, but I have seen it almost work.
Imagine a piece of paper (or plastic) burning.  Now, this give off
enough energy to 1) emit light 2) emit heat  3) emit enough energy to
heat a portion next to the flame enough to vaporize and  4) ignite to
continue burning. 

Now, imagine, taking the constituents out into separate paths, use the
gas and some oil for a heat source, continue processing.  In theory,
there is enough energy to heat the plastic and vaporize (but not burn).
Instead of burning the gas you re-introduce it to burn externally and
give its heat to the process.  Thermal Depolymerization or Pyrolisis, is
being used, or at least experimented with.  It works for not only
plastics but also rubbers, tires, manures, coal, and other carbonatious
materials such as 'turkey guts'.  Some have greater energy output than
others.

AK

On 8/28/2005, "Andy Karpay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
>If my memory serves me right, "biodiesel from plastic" is neither "bio"
>nor "diesel"  The petroleum products from the feedstock (oil) in
>plastics can be reclaimed by heating in an oxygen deficient atmosphere.
>High enough temperatures will break the plastics down to a liquid and
>then gas.  The gas is collected and has the approximate btu content of
>methane (perhaps more).  Some will coalesce, or condense into an oily
>substance.  I suppose this substance can be refined to act like a
diesel
>fuel.  It has many btu's in it too.
>
>AK
>
>







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[Biofuel] biodiesel from plastic

[Andy Karpay]

If my memory serves me right, "biodiesel from plastic" is neither "bio"
nor "diesel"  The petroleum products from the feedstock (oil) in
plastics can be reclaimed by heating in an oxygen deficient atmosphere.
High enough temperatures will break the plastics down to a liquid and
then gas.  The gas is collected and has the approximate btu content of
methane (perhaps more).  Some will coalesce, or condense into an oily
substance.  I suppose this substance can be refined to act like a diesel
fuel.  It has many btu's in it too.

AK



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[Biofuel] 50/50 WVO mix in MB 300D

[Andy Karpay]

--

>___
>
>
>  



Using a heater is usually recommended.  If you are in a colder climate
(I am in Florida) some also use a separate small dino diesel tank for
starting.  This also requires a switch (tank A / tank B).  You should
switch tanks before shutting down to get the dino into the fuel system
for the next start.

That being said, if your WVO is gelling at too high a temperature
consider the source.  Does it have too much animal fat?  Is there water
in it?  
I am running a 300SD on pretty much 100% FILTERED WVO.  It is obtained
from a fairly upscale restaurant.  Mostly has been used for light frying
of vegetables.  Sometimes it is 'cloudy' and thick, sometimes it is
clear and golden in color.  I discard the cloudy oil, or put it into a
settling tank.  I do not use the bottom of this tank.

I expect to need to increase my dino input for winter's operation even
here.

Regards to Hakan and Keith - I am with you, brothers

_

I have a 300D Mercedes that runs fine on 50/50 mixture of diesel and 
virgin soybean oil. I am going to try
to convert it to run WVO. The  WVO  I  have  collected  gels  at  too  
high  a  temperature. I guess I will have
use a heater.

For parts, try www.germanstar.net


Bob




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[Biofuel] Pat Robertson's business affiliation with Hugo Chavez

[Andy Karpay]

I sent a letter (email) to the 700 club asking that they take Mr.
Robertson off the air, as he offended us all.  I got a response back
from them with about a 2 page dance-around in his defense which included
direct quotes from his statement.  One of the telling remarks was that
he (Robertson) had no fear of losing oil from Venezuela on Chavez's
demise.  Oh, so I am to infer that, if we WERE to lose oil shipments
from them it might be a bad thing to kill him?  It's all about the oil
(pronounced M-O-N-E-Y).  

It was stated here earlier, but the US is responsible for Allende's
death in Chile (1973?), Guevara's death, death in Honduras (Iran-Contra
scheme where arms were sold to Iran, our "ally" of the day, and the
proceeds sent to the death squads in Honduras), on and on.  
It is stated many times in this country that "communism has failed"
therefore it is no good.  The truth is that much of communism's failure,
in this hemisphere particularly, is due to our country's intervention to
ensure the demise of democratically elected leaders (you can, and we do
have democratic communism).  The US's fear is that if the country is
communist, then we cannot exploit the labor and resources for our own
gain, and the gain of the wealthy.  Remember, without poverty there is
no wealth.

AK


Message: 2
Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:43:32 -0400
From: Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Robertson et al VS. followers
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I once sent them (Oral Roberts?) a brick.  They were asking for 25.00 to

buy a brick, so I sent them a letter saying I could get a much better 
price and did they want more.
Cost me something like 4.00 for 4th class postage but it was worth it.

Manick Harris wrote:

> Hi everybody,
> I do not know about Robertson, but thereare many so-called 
> 'evangelists' whose sole purpose is to collect money from naive 
> believers. My late mother once donated !R 200 to a well known TV 
> evangelist.and received a hasty letter back from the guy stating that 
> it wasn't enough even for one brick. God, what kind of bricks do you 
> use anyway. The Indian evangelists often use resurrection trick to con

> target groups into parting with large amounts of cash. When one such 
> fellow who was claiming how he resurrected a corpse noticed how I was 
> frowning he turned me in anger. With these guys no public accounts are

> kept at all and everything goes into their pocket. One fellow here was

> exorcising a young girl  with her dress up and sitting on him, not 
> knowing a police party was watching him...I think anyone who collects 
> money should be accountable to prevent fraud of the divine kind. LOL
>
> */BT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
>
> Greetings fellow revolutionary alchemists!
>
> The question I have is, How do we help separate the good-hearted
> followers from their devious leaders?
>
> For example:
> I often forward news and interesting articles (much of which I
> find on this list, thanks to you all)  to a few friends and
> family. I never get any responses. One of my friends I know is a
> 700 Club 'member' and his church preaches along the same political
> lines. After forwarding the news about Robertson's comments, I
> received this reply from my friend:
> 
> "He is a passionate man who speaks from his heart and who has said
> some stupid stuff in the past and probably will say some stupid
> things in the future but he apologized and that's good in my
> book.  Heck, it's alot more than most political or public figures
> would do."
>  
>
> "Is it right to call for assassination? No, and I apologize for
> that statement," Robertson said. "I spoke in frustration that we
> should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill
him."
>
> http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/24/robertson.chavez/index.html
>
> 
> To which I responded with a more complete quote from Robertson's
> "apology", a page of links relating to Robertson's money-making
> operations in Africa (included at the bottom of this long email,
> in case anyone is interested)  and a comment:
>
> "Obviously Pat Robertson does not have any business interests in
> common with Hugo Chavez, otherwise Robertson would be defending
> Chavez instead of condemning him."
>
> My friend's reply:
> --
>
> "I heard from a story on NPR the other day regarding a current
> State Governor that when in the political spotlight and "riding a
> white horse" the dirt shows up easier.  Too many resources have
> been wasted on putting Pat Roberts[on] on public "trial". 
> Everyone knows that he is a religous man but the primary word in
> that description is "man".  He is not God.  Man makes mistakes. 
> When shadey politicians make mistakes it's OK because nobody
> expect

Re: [Biofuel] Chemical engineer's letter

[Andy Karpay]

A few years ago I was working in "alternate energy" as a (mechanical)
engineer.  We tried many different sources to extract energy from waste
tires (very high BTU) to pig manure to water.  Converting Biomass to
extract energy is not impossible, but can get expensive.  Your 'friend'
seems a bit cynical, yet I also agree with most of what she said.  Many
people in that field are looking for grants, stock buyers, etc, but some
are really out there trying to look for true alternative energy sources
(alternative to petroleum).  I have followed this project for a few
years, and it looks like they are doing it.
http://www.cfact.org/site/view_article.asp?idCategory=7&idarticle=459

Bush's plan to use Hydrogen will require large Nuclear power stations to
provide the electricity to break the bonds of the H2O.  These guys
(above) also put energy into the process.  But are converting current
useless waste into hydrocarbons, carbon, and minerals.  I think we must
all have an open mind.  That being said, I've seen plenty of crazy
people and ideas from folks attempting to run cars on water, pickle
juice etc.  I've been told that if you distill water at a vacuum (lower
temperature) it doesn't cost as much (not true, it is actually more).  I
am rambling now, but just make the point that even if 1000 people make
"vinegar" there will be one who finds a good process.



Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 15:02:18 GMT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Biofuel] Chemical engineer's letter
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Message-ID:

<[EMAIL PROTECTED]
.org>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

HELP! 
How can I respond to the negative email below? It's from a 
chemical engineer friend researching ethanol from cellulose. I 
sent him some info from this list to help his research, and was 
surprised by the anger. Anyone have specific things I can say in 
response?

The email: 

Hi Marilyn

Those guys are out in left field. From my perspective -- having 
followed and evaluated various biomass gasification processes 
(technology and economics) for 27 years -- is that the 
Bioengineering Resources guys are opportunistic promoters -- 
looking for suckers (e.g., U.S. DOE or some naive investors with 
money to waste). The technology is neither prove nor 
economical. And who needs more vinegar (dilute acetic acid).

Fermentation of synthesis gas to acetic acid is nonsense. 
Producing synthesis gas from biomass is itself unproven at any 
significant scale (not even in a decent pilot plant) -- and if it could 
be achieved, would be very expensive relative to other options for 
producing synthesis gas. FYI -- Synthesis gas is a mixture of 
hydrogen and carbon monoxide, which can be reacted over 
various catalysts at elevated temperatures to produce many 
different products -- such as alcohols, hydrocarbons, and 
various oxygenated organic compounds. The synthesis gas first 
has to be purified (made extremely clean), and the H2/CO ratio 
also has to be adjusted for the specific application. After the 
synthesis, further processing is usually required. 

Most of these assorted biomass energy promoters (and I have 
seen many come and go over 27 years) don't understand 
chemical engineering, process economics, resource 
availability/supply/transportation economics, etc., etc. Yet every 
every 5-10 years a new "generation" of biomass advocates and 
promoters emerge (or are otherwise born into the light) who 
don't know their asses from first base -- but think that biomass 
will save the world -- and so promote all kinds of technically 
dumb and uneconomical ideas -- and make life miserable for 
the people who are doing reasonable work. They all stroke each 
other and keep each other going and feeling self-righteous.

This whole business is too complicated and emotion-ridden for 
the biomass zealots (and apparently for me too) for me to begin 
discussing the many dimensions of it in an e-mail.

I personally favor the idea of exploiting biomass (intelligently) as 
a renewable energy resource -- and think that we can be utilizing 
it. However, a lot has to change (mostly politically, socially, 
economically, educationally, etc.) for that to ever happen. The 
cause is not helped by promoters of dumb ideas.







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[Biofuel] RE: High energy electrode process

[Andy Karpay]

I didn't read the Patent, and I'm not an electrical engineer, but have
worked on processes that involved high energy electrodes in liquids to
produce combustible fuels (Hydrogen, CO, and other hydrocarbons).  3-5
kV is going to be difficult to attain.  I guess it's possible at ultra
low current.  If allowed to arc it will produce a combustible gas in the
make-up described above.  This gas can be dangerous not only due to its
combustible nature, but also, I believe, to be hazardous to health if
breathed.  I have worked with the stuff, and have friends harmed
(permanent) from being around the gas.  I have no idea what the electric
will do to the chemical reaction, but as an energy source I believe it
will be expensive.  Just chiming in...

Regards to all
Andy



Message: 1
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:06:46 -0400
From: Joe Street <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ws Sodium Methoxide MSDS (Sodium methylate) now
alternative biodiesel process
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Hi Bob;

Well although I agree if it aint broke don't fix it but according to the

original post this electrically activated process does not require 
methoxide.  If it is true what a nice advancement.  According to the 
original post IIRC it said the process involves adding 15% methanol and 
the reaction happens at 85 deg C while passing by a DC electrode of 3 to

5kv potential.  Here I just found and copied the text out of a reply to 
a previous post.  The subject line of the thread was Titanium (?)

snip -

Hi There:

The following US patent offers making biodiesel by adding 15% MeOH
and running the mix at 85degC past very high DC electrode to get
100% conversion - no glycerine, it is converted to 1,2,3-proprionate.
The only other byproduct is hydrogen.  Very cool, just a little
scary.

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u
=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=bio
deisel&OS=biodeisel&RS=biodeisel  
http://tinyurl.com/8hjv7

Ray

snip-


The patent reference does not appear to be the right one.  Ray??

Joe



bob allen wrote:

> Joe Street wrote:
>
>> Howdy Pardner
>>
>> bob allen wrote:
>>
>>> Howdy Joe (I just had to write "Hey Joe" before.  its the lead to a 
>>> Jimmy hendrix song I enjoy.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah I get that a lot. When they ask me "where you goin with that gun

>> in your hand" I say "This is my rifle and this is my gun,  This is 
>> for shooting and this is for fun"
>>
>> Ok thanks for your corrections and information below.  As a chemist 
>> you are a boon to this list.  Have you given any thought to the other

>> thread about using some form of energy input to make the 
>> esterification reaction go?  Apparently it can be done with a high 
>> electric field strength and passing the oil/alcohol mixture at 
>> elevated temperature (and pressure I am guessing since the vapor 
>> pressure of methanol at 85 deg C must be above atmoshpere).  I was 
>> also wondering about using intense UV light.  Any thoughts?
>>
>
>
> To drive a chemical reaction, you need two things:  Provide activation

> energy to move the reaction along and some way to force any 
> equilibrium in the direction you want it to go (for reversible 
> processes). Traditional base catalyzed transesterification uses heat 
> to provide the activation energy and excess methanol to drive the 
> equilibrium further.
>
>
> Other ways to provide the activation energy may be possible, but I 
> would question whether one process was any more cost effective or 
> energy efficient than the traditional methods.  To make a long story 
> short, I haven't given it a lot of thought, but for your average 
> Joe(ok another feeble pun), stick with what works.





--

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:33:57 -0500
From: bob allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ws Sodium Methoxide MSDS (Sodium methylate)
now
alternative biodiesel process
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

Joe, just a couple of comments.  all kinds of claims can be made in 
patent applications, whether they work or not remains to be seen.  the 
process is simple enough that one could try it and see.  I did look at 
the  patent application.  some of their nomenclature is ambiguous, so it

is not clear exactly what the products are claimed to be.


BTW, the link you provided is unrelated. It discusses an enzyme 
catalyzed process.


Joe Street wrote:
> Hi Bob;
> 
> Well although I agree if it aint broke don't fix it but according to
the 
> original post this electrically activated process does not require 
> methoxide.  If it is true what a nice advancement.  According to the 
> original post IIRC it said the process involves adding 15% methanol
and 
> the reaction happens at 85 deg C while passing b

[Biofuel] RE: WVO Filtration

[Andy Karpay]

Mike:

Filter very carefully.  I first collect it, and transfer to a
"holding/settling tank".  There it sits for at least 7-10 days.  It is
then filtered thru cloth.  A final filtration is passed thru an auto oil
filter.
I still see fine particulate in it at times.
Andy


--

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 20:34:06 -0400
From: Mike Weaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] SVO/WVO conversion
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Do you filter your WVO?

Andy Karpay wrote:

>Chris:
>I'm by no means an expert (just getting started myself).  It has been
>suggested to me by a friend to check out http://greasel.com/ , who seem
>to know what they are doing.  As I understand the systems, you'll need
a
>small dino fuel tank to use for cold starts.  You need to switch to the
>dino tank BEFORE SHUTTING DOWN in order to purge the lines of the SVO -
>especially in colder climates.  I live in Florida and have been running
>a 1981 300SD on 90% WVO for a few months now.  (Can't quite let myself
>go 100% yet).  I imagine I'll need to get to somewhere around 30%-50%
>dino diesel for the winter as I have no heater.  You also need to keep
>your eye on the fuel filter(s) - especially on Waste oils.  I keep a
>spare in the trunk, with the right screwdriver and a flashlight (I just
>know it will give up at night, when it's raining, on a new moon, when
>I'm driving across the everglades).  Loss of power is the first sign of
>a plugged fuel filter.  Although they say there is less BTU in the WVO,
>I notice better performance in the car, quieter engine noise, and
>certainly no black soot in the exhaust.  I pity the folks behind me who
>keep looking for the restaurant where that delicious smell is coming
>from.  Good Luck!
>
>--
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 10:31:30 -0700 (PDT)
>From: chris davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: [Biofuel] SVO Kits
>To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>Hello all,
>
>After a few years of dreaming, I am about to finally
>buy a Mercedes to convert to SVO! In the last year or
>more, I have learned so much from this biofuels list,
>it's a great resource, and I would be grateful to get
>some opinions on what the best SVO kit is to use. This
>kit will be on a 1979 - 1985 MBZ 300 series TD. I will
>have $700 - $1000 to spend on the kit, and most likely
>will install it myself. I like the idea of a One Tank
>System. Any preferences on 1 or 2 tank systems? Which
>1 tank systems are better? Thanks for the help.
>
>-Chris Davidson 




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[Biofuel] SVO/WVO conversion

[Andy Karpay]

Chris:
I'm by no means an expert (just getting started myself).  It has been
suggested to me by a friend to check out http://greasel.com/ , who seem
to know what they are doing.  As I understand the systems, you'll need a
small dino fuel tank to use for cold starts.  You need to switch to the
dino tank BEFORE SHUTTING DOWN in order to purge the lines of the SVO -
especially in colder climates.  I live in Florida and have been running
a 1981 300SD on 90% WVO for a few months now.  (Can't quite let myself
go 100% yet).  I imagine I'll need to get to somewhere around 30%-50%
dino diesel for the winter as I have no heater.  You also need to keep
your eye on the fuel filter(s) - especially on Waste oils.  I keep a
spare in the trunk, with the right screwdriver and a flashlight (I just
know it will give up at night, when it's raining, on a new moon, when
I'm driving across the everglades).  Loss of power is the first sign of
a plugged fuel filter.  Although they say there is less BTU in the WVO,
I notice better performance in the car, quieter engine noise, and
certainly no black soot in the exhaust.  I pity the folks behind me who
keep looking for the restaurant where that delicious smell is coming
from.  Good Luck!



--

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 10:31:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: chris davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Biofuel] SVO Kits
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Hello all,

After a few years of dreaming, I am about to finally
buy a Mercedes to convert to SVO! In the last year or
more, I have learned so much from this biofuels list,
it's a great resource, and I would be grateful to get
some opinions on what the best SVO kit is to use. This
kit will be on a 1979 - 1985 MBZ 300 series TD. I will
have $700 - $1000 to spend on the kit, and most likely
will install it myself. I like the idea of a One Tank
System. Any preferences on 1 or 2 tank systems? Which
1 tank systems are better? Thanks for the help.

-Chris Davidson 


**



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[Biofuel] Still not worth it

[Andy Karpay]

I happen to agree with Cindy Sheehan 100%, and hang my head in shame and
disgust for what our (once) great country has done to her and her son.

Candle light vigils are being created around the country in her support.
You can find one near you by going to
http://political.moveon.org/event/events/?action_id=24&search_distance=3
0& =&search_zip=33609&submit=1&id=5895-628389-26lCX3IDaU5P13tc9Jmn9g&t=4

I'll drive my WVO fueled car..
Andy

--

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 09:39:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Biofuel] Cindy Sheehan: "Still Not Worth It"
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


Still Not Worth It

by Cindy Sheehan

http://www.lewrockwell.com/sheehan/sheehan10.html

Last January, I was bumped from the Larry King Live
show for an appearance by the soon to be proven
innocent Michael Jackson. I was going to be on the
program to answer the question: Did I feel my son's
murder in Iraq was "worth it" after the "free"
elections in the war torn country on January 30th. I
wrote an article then called: "Not Worth It."

I never thought I would be invited back on as a guest
after I pretty much burned the Larry King bridge with
my article. However, to my astonishment, I was invited
to be a guest on June 28th. I was asked to be on the
broadcast in order to give my impressions and rebuttal
to George's speech on Iraq that he delivered in front
of the less than enthusiastic (what the White House
spin doctors call: respectful) troops at Ft. Bragg, NC.

I felt like I was in Bizarro World as I heard George
speak about 9/11 five times and mention terrorism 31
times, even though these rationales for war have been
disproved repeatedly. I think George thinks that since
we believed him once about terrorism vis-à-vis Iraq,
that we must therefore be gullible enough to believe
him this time. I don't know, and I am not a
professional pundit, but my theory is he might have
mentioned 9/11 to manipulate our emotions and maybe
even frighten us a little again?

The thing that struck me when I was watching that
vacuous man giving his hollow speech was the fact that
he could have always replaced the word "terrorists"
with the phrase: "my moronic and callous foreign
policies" For example, when he said that terrorists
spread death and destruction on the streets of Baghdad
and kill innocent people, he could have just as easily
said: "My moronic and callous foreign policies spread
death and destruction on the streets of Baghdad and
kill innocent people." When he said that we need to
stop terrorists from toppling governments in the
region, he could have just as easily said: "We need to
stop my moronic and callous foreign policies from
toppling governments in the region." People have
characterized the speech-lite in many ways, but if I
had to pick a few words to describe it, I would say:
"Hypocritical, manipulative, condescending, meaningless
drivel."

I sat through an entire hour in the CNN studio in DC
hearing not one person say that the invasion was a
mistake and if it was a mistake, then our troops should
be brought home immediately. Even the "Democratic"
Senators (Kerry and Bayh) on the program just gave
their recipes for "success" in Iraq, which did not
include any exit strategies. The guest host for that
hour was Bob Costas and he asked one guest, Sen. John
McCain, an intriguing question: "If you could push
Button One and have an eventual wonderful outcome in
Iraq, or if you could push Button Two and never have
had it happen, which one would you pick?" Of course,
Sen. McCain chose Button One. He hasn't had a loved one
killed in this enormous tragedy of a war, nor does he
have a loved one in harm's way. It has not affected him
personally one bit. What skin is it off McCain's nose
if our troops remain for a highly unlikely rosy outcome
at the cost of thousands of more lives? I would push
the button that would bring back my son, Casey, and the
tens of thousands of other victims who have been killed
for nothing but outright lies and bald-faced betrayals.
I would push the button that would give Iraq back its
power, water, and infrastructure.

My absolute favorite guest of the evening was Sen. John
Warner, powerful chair of the Senate Armed Disservices
Committee. Of course, he fell in lockstep behind his
Führer and praised the speech and how, although we have
"all" paid a terrible price for this invasion and
occupation, bringing freedom and democracy to the Iraqi
people is worth all the sacrifices that the world is
making. I sat in the Green Room with Sen. Warner's
entourage. I wondered (even out loud) what price they
have paid for our administration's misdeeds in Iraq.
They all looked like happy, well-fed, well-dressed,
well-educated, and well-hydrated Americans. They looked
to me like they had plenty of electricity to blow-dry
their hair and charge their cell phones and laptops.
They looked 

[Biofuel] Honda Civic MPG

[Andy Karpay]

One thing not discussed previously is tire pressure.  Low tire pressure
can cause drastic loss of mpg.  Just because an engine is "100 HP" does
not mean it needs to output the full 100HP.  Once the vehicle is "up to
speed" then, as previously stated, you only need to only overcome
friction.  The newer Caddie must be more efficient.  Just because your
engine is smaller does not automatically make it more efficient.  Look
at the old VW Bugs.  In the '70s we thought them to be 'economical'.
Now, those bugs only get 18-19 mpg. 

NDK


I am 18 and not sure where I want to go to college. I might take the
year off, as it is so late to be signing up. My question for everyone
is, does anyone here know of some good colleges, preferably in the New
England area, that have specialty biofuel(or related) courses? That
would be a great help to me.  Also, I wanted to add an amazing
discovery/question that I found this past week. I drive a 1992 honda
civic. I just did a full tune up, including O2 sensor, plugs, wires,
cap & rotor, etc. I drove from FL to MA, and i got about 23 MPG. This
is in a 1.5L engine in a  car weighing maybe 1600 lbs fully loaded
with 106 base HP. I then drove my father's car south( a 2000 Cadillac
Deville), from Ma to FL, and got an amazing surprise : his 4.6L
American engine with about 300 base HP pulling a car weighing maybe
3000Lbs empty got  28MPG. I also found that in the city, his car's
gas mileage was 18 MPG, where mine is about 13. Now I admit to owning
a foot of lead, but does anyone know how this is possible as i drove
both vehicles, and with regular gas? The calculations were correct for
MPG. Any input would be appreciated. ~ Paul

*



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[Biofuel] Running on WVO

[Andy Karpay]

Hi all.  I am relatively new to the list, and enjoy all the topics.
Some mighty thoughtful folks in the group.  I am currently running a
1981 Mercedes 300SD on filtered WVO.  It runs great, and my wife swears
it even runs better than on dino fuel.  I am looking to purchase a newer
vehicle to operate for my job which involves traveling about 3000 miles
per month (sales).  I live in Florida so heating has not been an issue
(yet) and I have calculated that by using between 10% to 50% dino diesel
(depending on ambient temperature) it'll be more cost effective than
having to make the biodiesel year round.  I figure December, January,
February I can run 50-50, then increase WVO content as the spring and
summer arrive.  It has worked well so far and am looking to perhaps
purchase a new or newer vehicle for that purpose.  My dilemma is whether
to buy a Dodge 2500 with the Cummins, which is way more vehicle than I
really need, (but I like the engine) or (what else is there?).  I
recently looked at the Chrysler Jeep Liberty with the diesel engine.  It
would seem to fulfill all my needs.  Since this is the first year out
for them there are uncertainties, but does anyone know about the chances
of good operation with WVO on this vehicle/engine?

Andy Karpay - Tampa FL 



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[Biofuel] RE: Turd Blossom

[Andy Karpay]

I love that name "Turd Blossom".  Although it may have a different
meaning in Texas, it sure seems to describe him well.  Throughout this
entire event the White House Administration has denied all
accountability for anyone on 'their' staff.  Scott McLellan has also
clearly and without ambiguity announced that Turd Blossom and his boss
had NO INVOLVEMENT.  Now see the video of him dancing when the press
asks a few questions.
http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Scotty_Rove.mov



--

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 17 Jul 2005 07:32:51 -0500
From: MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Biofuel] Turd Blossom aka Karl Rove
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

 'Turd Blossom' in full flower: Traitor in the White House
 July 15, 2005
 By Bill Press
 http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45290

 Nixon had Watergate. Reagan, Contragate. Clinton, Monicagate.
 Now George W. Bush has own scandal: Turdgate. Named after Karl Rove,
 the top White House aide whom Bush calls "Turd Blossom" - a term of
 endearment unique to Texas. 

 It started in January 2003, when President Bush, using his
 State of the Union address to build a case for war in Iraq,
 accused Saddam Hussein of shopping for yellowcake uranium in Niger.
 Bush's dishonesty was revealed in July by former Ambassador
 Joseph Wilson. Writing in the New York Times, Wilson reported
 that he'd been sent to Africa by the CIA, before the speech,
 to investigate the yellowcake claim and came back and reported
 it was bogus. An embarrassed White House had to admit Bush was wrong. 

 That's when the Bush smear machine kicked in. Eight days later,
 citing sources at the White House, columnist Bob Novak charged that
 Wilson was not to be taken seriously because he'd actually been sent to
 Niger by his wife, CIA employee Valerie Plame. The next week, Matt
Cooper
 wrote a follow-up piece for Time magazine, also based on anonymous
 White House sources. Judith Miller researched, but did not publish,
 an article for the New York Times. 

 That might look like business as usual. Only one problem. In this case,
 the leak blew the cover of an undercover CIA agent working on
 weapons of mass destruction. That's a federal crime. A special
 prosecutor was named to investigate
 who in the Bush White House broke the law. 

 For two years, Turd Blossom himself denied any involvement in the case.
 He also instructed hapless White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan
 to tell reporters: "I have spoken to Karl Rove. He was not involved
 in this." Now we know that is a big, fat lie. Rove's attorney admits
 he spoke with Cooper four days before Novak wrote his column. In an
 e-mail obtained and published by Newsweek, Cooper recounts having been
 warned by Rove to distrust Wilson because "it was Wilson's wife,
 who apparently works at the agency on WMD issues, who authorized the
trip." 

 And there you have it: Turd Blossom busted. On two counts.
 Rove is clearly guilty of a political dirty trick:
 attacking the credibility of Wilson, simply because he dared question
 Bush's phony arguments for the war in Iraq. This is a pattern for the
 Bush White House. They targeted similar, personal, attacks against
 Richard Clarke and Paul O'Neill. 

 But Rove is also guilty of something far more serious. By revealing the
 identity of an undercover CIA agent, he compromised our nation's
security
 and put countless lives at risk. That's nothing short of an act of
treason.
 Much worse than Nixon's goons breaking into Democratic Party
headquarters.
 And much, much worse than Clinton's act of consensual oral sex. 

 But Republicans don't care.
 They've launched an orchestrated campaign to defend Turd Blossom.
 In official "talking points" distributed by the Republican National
Committee,
 they insist, for example, that Rove did not call Cooper, but that
Cooper called
 him. So what? What matters is not who placed the call, but what was
 said during the call. 

 The GOP cheat sheet also credits Rove with trying to do Cooper a favor,
 by warning him about Wilson. The Bush administration going out its way
 to help the liberal media? That, you must admit, is laugh-out-loud
funny.
 Rove apologists also make a big deal out of the fact that Wilson
endorsed
 John Kerry for president. Yes, he did - but not until October 2003,
 three months after Rove had attacked him and blown his wife's cover.
 By then, can you blame him? 

 Weakest of all, Republicans argue that Turd Blossom didn't actually
give
 Cooper the name of Wilson's wife. Give me a break. In July 2003, simply
 Googling Joe Wilson would tell you his wife was the "former Valerie
Plame."
 What Google did not tell you was that she worked for the CIA.
 That's what Rove let out of the bag. That's where Rove committed
treason. 

 The big question is: Now that we know, without a doubt, it was Karl
Rove
 who spilled the beans, why does he still have a job at the Wh