Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Often all broadleaf trees are called hardwoods, and all conifers are called softwoods, but that's not really true. For example, aspens have much softer wood than do larch. I'm not sure of a technical definition -- a certain hardness or strength or something? Or in this case it seems like we're looking for a certain chemical composition, which could vary with soil type as well? Z On 5/11/06, Scott Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not an expert in these matters, but I know that Oak and I think Walnut and Maple are hardwoods. I'm not sure about elm and cherry. Sounds to me like it'd be a good source. --Scott Burton -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 4:57 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst my father is a forester, and is very much involved with resource management (hes the coordinator) at a forest preserve where i grew up, every three years a logging company is called in to thin out a small section of the park, and these sections are rotated every cycle. my father collects the tops from the trees that are removed and cuts them for firewood, which is all oak, walnut, maple, cherry, and elm. would this group of woods be a suitable supply of ash for KOH? i know the article calls for hardwood, but there are some non-pine varieties that dont qualify. anyway, im rambling. this supply would be a good way to heat an alcohol distillery or even just basic home heating, but there need not be any real waste of energy in the pursuit of wood ash, and anyone with a rain barrel can make their own KOH. there are a thousand ways around any obstacle but the most fitting is the least obvious. Jason ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 5/5/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
As I understand it, hardwoods when split with an axe will not necessarily 'go with the grain' of the wood, whereas softwoods (fir, hemlock, etc) will... Nice smooth splits, no splintering off to one side, which hardwoods can, but not always will... HTH Al - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 6:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst Often all broadleaf trees are called hardwoods, and all conifers are called softwoods, but that's not really true. For example, aspens have much softer wood than do larch. I'm not sure of a technical definition -- a certain hardness or strength or something? Or in this case it seems like we're looking for a certain chemical composition, which could vary with soil type as well? Z On 5/11/06, Scott Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not an expert in these matters, but I know that Oak and I think Walnut and Maple are hardwoods. I'm not sure about elm and cherry. Sounds to me like it'd be a good source. --Scott Burton -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 4:57 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst my father is a forester, and is very much involved with resource management (hes the coordinator) at a forest preserve where i grew up, every three years a logging company is called in to thin out a small section of the park, and these sections are rotated every cycle. my father collects the tops from the trees that are removed and cuts them for firewood, which is all oak, walnut, maple, cherry, and elm. would this group of woods be a suitable supply of ash for KOH? i know the article calls for hardwood, but there are some non-pine varieties that dont qualify. anyway, im rambling. this supply would be a good way to heat an alcohol distillery or even just basic home heating, but there need not be any real waste of energy in the pursuit of wood ash, and anyone with a rain barrel can make their own KOH. there are a thousand ways around any obstacle but the most fitting is the least obvious. Jason ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 5/5/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Ah, interesting definition. I've never tried to split anything like oak or hickory or such, so I didn't even think that they might not split nicely. On 5/12/06, A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I understand it, hardwoods when split with an axe will not necessarily 'go with the grain' of the wood, whereas softwoods (fir, hemlock, etc) will... Nice smooth splits, no splintering off to one side, which hardwoods can, but not always will... HTH Al - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 6:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst Often all broadleaf trees are called hardwoods, and all conifers are called softwoods, but that's not really true. For example, aspens have much softer wood than do larch. I'm not sure of a technical definition -- a certain hardness or strength or something? Or in this case it seems like we're looking for a certain chemical composition, which could vary with soil type as well? Z On 5/11/06, Scott Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not an expert in these matters, but I know that Oak and I think Walnut and Maple are hardwoods. I'm not sure about elm and cherry. Sounds to me like it'd be a good source. --Scott Burton -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 4:57 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst my father is a forester, and is very much involved with resource management (hes the coordinator) at a forest preserve where i grew up, every three years a logging company is called in to thin out a small section of the park, and these sections are rotated every cycle. my father collects the tops from the trees that are removed and cuts them for firewood, which is all oak, walnut, maple, cherry, and elm. would this group of woods be a suitable supply of ash for KOH? i know the article calls for hardwood, but there are some non-pine varieties that dont qualify. anyway, im rambling. this supply would be a good way to heat an alcohol distillery or even just basic home heating, but there need not be any real waste of energy in the pursuit of wood ash, and anyone with a rain barrel can make their own KOH. there are a thousand ways around any obstacle but the most fitting is the least obvious. Jason ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 5/5/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
oak in fact does not split cleanly, and hickory is a real monster to split w/o a hydraulic ram splitter - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:38 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst Ah, interesting definition. I've never tried to split anything like oak or hickory or such, so I didn't even think that they might not split nicely. On 5/12/06, A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I understand it, hardwoods when split with an axe will not necessarily 'go with the grain' of the wood, whereas softwoods (fir, hemlock, etc) will... Nice smooth splits, no splintering off to one side, which hardwoods can, but not always will... HTH Al - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 6:57 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst Often all broadleaf trees are called hardwoods, and all conifers are called softwoods, but that's not really true. For example, aspens have much softer wood than do larch. I'm not sure of a technical definition -- a certain hardness or strength or something? Or in this case it seems like we're looking for a certain chemical composition, which could vary with soil type as well? Z On 5/11/06, Scott Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not an expert in these matters, but I know that Oak and I think Walnut and Maple are hardwoods. I'm not sure about elm and cherry. Sounds to me like it'd be a good source. --Scott Burton -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 4:57 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst my father is a forester, and is very much involved with resource management (hes the coordinator) at a forest preserve where i grew up, every three years a logging company is called in to thin out a small section of the park, and these sections are rotated every cycle. my father collects the tops from the trees that are removed and cuts them for firewood, which is all oak, walnut, maple, cherry, and elm. would this group of woods be a suitable supply of ash for KOH? i know the article calls for hardwood, but there are some non-pine varieties that dont qualify. anyway, im rambling. this supply would be a good way to heat an alcohol distillery or even just basic home heating, but there need not be any real waste of energy in the pursuit of wood ash, and anyone with a rain barrel can make their own KOH. there are a thousand ways around any obstacle but the most fitting is the least obvious. Jason ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 5/5/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
2nd run dropped down to 6% ffa. The 1st run separated beautifully with base transesterification. The 2nd run solidified to soap. I'm going to do a 3rd run reusing the catalyst. Best, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Tan Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 4:53 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst I tried to make the stuff from cotton without the Nitrogen. I did the pyrolysis and the sulfonation for half the time. I guess I was too impatient. I tested it with WVO with 12% FFA. After treatment, the FFA content went down to only 5%. To make sure that it wasn't the leftover acid that was doing the job, I'm doing another run, using the same sample I made. Then I will try to transesterify both runs. Best, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:48 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst Hi Chris The way I see it, this new catalyst isn't environment friendly at all. So much energy is needed to pyrolyse sugar at 400 degrees centigrade for 15 hours. On top of that, you need to heat it at 150 degrees with 200mL of concentrated sulfuric acid for another 15 hours. Then you need to wash it to remove the acid. So then where will the acid wash water go? Down the drain? Not to mention the fumes produced during the whole process. Yes. Hot concentrated sulphuric acid lacks appeal. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Actually, you were heading in the right direction, Zeke. All conifers are technically softwoods, period. Softwoods are distinguished from other plants by their reproduction method. All softwoods are cone bearing. Hardwoods are flower bearing. As a general rule of thumb, if it's a broadleaf or also very roughly, if it's deciduous, it's probably a hardwood (don't be fooled though, there are many exceptions in both camps - for example here in New Zealand most of the indigenous hardwoods, except for one are evergreen and on the other side, Larches and some cypresses, both conifers, are deciduous) The term softwood, though has little bearing on the hardness of the wood, though in general, they are softer than hardwoods. Again, exceptions abound. Balsa is a hardwood, Yew which is harder than most hardwoods is a softwood. Confused yet? Having said that all of the trees you mentioned are hardwoods and therefore fine for producing lye. Now, I'm not an expert on making lye from wood ashes but veside the JtF info, I did find this on the net regarding softwood vs hardwood ashes for soapmaking: http://www.endtimesreport.com/making_lye.html Soft wood ashes yield a lye that will only produce soft soap. Hardwood ash lye will make harder soap for bars, and the best ash of all is from seaweed, such as kelp. Kelp ash lye produces an extremely hard, durable soap. I can't quite reconcile that with the info on JtF because this might suggest that hardwood ash would contain more NaOH than softwood - which for soap making would be far better, but maybe lye from softwood ash would be better for biofuel production? Maybe someone else can clarify this. I would imagine that most of the lye making techniques from the past using wood ashes had soap making as a goal. Maybe softwoods just don't produce as much lye? or not just the type of lye affects the hardness of soap? I'm beyond my realm of knowledge at this point, so more questions than answers. In any case, your source would be fine. Steve On Saturday 13 May 2006 01:57 am, Zeke Yewdall wrote: Often all broadleaf trees are called hardwoods, and all conifers are called softwoods, but that's not really true. For example, aspens have much softer wood than do larch. I'm not sure of a technical definition -- a certain hardness or strength or something? Or in this case it seems like we're looking for a certain chemical composition, which could vary with soil type as well? Z On 5/11/06, Scott Burton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not an expert in these matters, but I know that Oak and I think Walnut and Maple are hardwoods. I'm not sure about elm and cherry. Sounds to me like it'd be a good source. --Scott Burton -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 4:57 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst my father is a forester, and is very much involved with resource management (hes the coordinator) at a forest preserve where i grew up, every three years a logging company is called in to thin out a small section of the park, and these sections are rotated every cycle. my father collects the tops from the trees that are removed and cuts them for firewood, which is all oak, walnut, maple, cherry, and elm. would this group of woods be a suitable supply of ash for KOH? i know the article calls for hardwood, but there are some non-pine varieties that dont qualify. anyway, im rambling. this supply would be a good way to heat an alcohol distillery or even just basic home heating, but there need not be any real waste of energy in the pursuit of wood ash, and anyone with a rain barrel can make their own KOH. there are a thousand ways around any obstacle but the most fitting is the least obvious. Jason ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 5/5/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Hi Jim, Chris and all Hi Chris, Keep in mind we are talking about two Separate catalysts here one is this Sugar Acid catalyst and the other is the ACID/BASE catalyst one developed by the University of IA. I agree with you the Sugar acid Catalyst sound rather energy intense and may not do the whole job ether. Now on the other hand the University of IA catalyst is one that can be used for the whole job and holds the promise of not having to spend the energy of washing and drying the fuel. Nothing is known how it is made so it is yet to be learned what kind of energy goes into is making. But there are so many new catalysts. I get the impression it's a sort of wide open subject to publish a paper on, especially if the whole subject has caught people's attention. And universities, especially US ones, have their publicity departments now and their magic marketplace imperatives for commercial spin-offs, along with publish or perish. So it's been quite hard to find a new catalyst that wasn't going to save the world. I suppose they all worked well, after all there aren't any pink elephants within thousands of miles of here. Very few of them ever come out of the laboratory. You know, like the famous supercritical methanol method. I don't as yet see anything much different about the U of IA effort. Of course it's worth checking, but I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not that bothered by pink elephants anyway. It's not as if we don't have everything we need right now. Which is not to say there's no need to go on developing it, and exploring all options, a major reason we're all here. This is an interesting piece about catalysts, by William Christie (apparently where Biox got it from): Methylation of fatty acids, William W. Christie, Scottish Crop Research Institute: Three interesting papers online: Preparation of methyl esters -- Part 1. Lipid Technology, 2, 48-49 (1990). Preparation of methyl esters -- Part 2. Lipid Technology, 2, 79-80 (1990). Why I dislike boron trifluoride-methanol. Lipid Technology, 6, 66-68 (1994). http://www.lipidlibrary.co.uk/topics/methests/ I wonder how much energy and fossil fuel goes into manufacturing a gram of KOH? A good question. Maybe none. You can find a gram of KOH in a bit of woodash. Not the only thing you'll find there, true, but it's mostly KOH. You can certainly make good liquid soap with it, and some people do use it for making biodiesel. There's been a page on it at our website for six years, but not much attention has been paid to it. I don't think a good approach to using it has been developed, and I'd really like to see such a thing. It's been on my do list for ages, I really must get round to it. Several people have written to me about it in the last month or two but I haven't heard back from them yet. There's woodash and woodash, it's not all the same. Best Keith Jim Chris Tan wrote: The way I see it, this new catalyst isn't environment friendly at all. So much energy is needed to pyrolyse sugar at 400 degrees centigrade for 15 hours. On top of that, you need to heat it at 150 degrees with 200mL of concentrated sulfuric acid for another 15 hours. Then you need to wash it to remove the acid. So then where will the acid wash water go? Down the drain? Not to mention the fumes produced during the whole process. With 200mL of sulfuric acid you could have treated 200L of WVO. They say the new stuff is reusable but I'm pretty sure it is impossible to complete recover 100% of the catalyst after use. Best regards, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JJJN Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 2:37 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst Mike, I think you have hit it on the head, The sugar catalyst is plays the role of the Acid in the two stage reaction but I don't think it will complete a reaction all on its own. And the fact that it is reusable is on its own a benefit but unless times and temps are increase beyond the layman grasp I remain very skeptical of it. Now on the other hand this IA State catalyst really shows promise as it would eliminate washing altogether -no?. Well enough of my presumptions - we are witnessing some interesting developments in biofuels. Best Jim Mike McGinness wrote: John, It says the particles are made of sand and calcium. The actual catalysts are attached to the surface of the particle and the active catalyst compound is not described (except to call them mixed oxides). I say catalysts because they mention having both acid and base catalysts on the same particles. by creating a mixed oxide catalyst that has both acidic and basic catalytic sites. Acidic catalysts on the particle can convert the free fatty acids to biodiesel while basic catalysts can convert
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
I tried to make the stuff from cotton without the Nitrogen. I did the pyrolysis and the sulfonation for half the time. I guess I was too impatient. I tested it with WVO with 12% FFA. After treatment, the FFA content went down to only 5%. To make sure that it wasn't the leftover acid that was doing the job, I'm doing another run, using the same sample I made. Then I will try to transesterify both runs. Best, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keith Addison Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:48 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst Hi Chris The way I see it, this new catalyst isn't environment friendly at all. So much energy is needed to pyrolyse sugar at 400 degrees centigrade for 15 hours. On top of that, you need to heat it at 150 degrees with 200mL of concentrated sulfuric acid for another 15 hours. Then you need to wash it to remove the acid. So then where will the acid wash water go? Down the drain? Not to mention the fumes produced during the whole process. Yes. Hot concentrated sulphuric acid lacks appeal. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
my father is a forester, and is very much involved with resource management (hes the coordinator) at a forest preserve where i grew up, every three years a logging company is called in to thin out a small section of the park, and these sections are rotated every cycle. my father collects the tops from the trees that are removed and cuts them for firewood, which is all oak, walnut, maple, cherry, and elm. would this group of woods be a suitable supply of ash for KOH? i know the article calls for hardwood, but there are some non-pine varieties that dont qualify. anyway, im rambling. this supply would be a good way to heat an alcohol distillery or even just basic home heating, but there need not be any real waste of energy in the pursuit of wood ash, and anyone with a rain barrel can make their own KOH. there are a thousand ways around any obstacle but the most fitting is the least obvious. Jason ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
I'm not an expert in these matters, but I know that Oak and I think Walnut and Maple are hardwoods. I'm not sure about elm and cherry. Sounds to me like it'd be a good source. --Scott Burton -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jason Katie Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 4:57 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst my father is a forester, and is very much involved with resource management (hes the coordinator) at a forest preserve where i grew up, every three years a logging company is called in to thin out a small section of the park, and these sections are rotated every cycle. my father collects the tops from the trees that are removed and cuts them for firewood, which is all oak, walnut, maple, cherry, and elm. would this group of woods be a suitable supply of ash for KOH? i know the article calls for hardwood, but there are some non-pine varieties that dont qualify. anyway, im rambling. this supply would be a good way to heat an alcohol distillery or even just basic home heating, but there need not be any real waste of energy in the pursuit of wood ash, and anyone with a rain barrel can make their own KOH. there are a thousand ways around any obstacle but the most fitting is the least obvious. Jason ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/333 - Release Date: 5/5/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.6/337 - Release Date: 5/11/2006 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
The way I see it, this new catalyst isn't environment friendly at all. So much energy is needed to pyrolyse sugar at 400 degrees centigrade for 15 hours. On top of that, you need to heat it at 150 degrees with 200mL of concentrated sulfuric acid for another 15 hours. Then you need to wash it to remove the acid. So then where will the acid wash water go? Down the drain? Not to mention the fumes produced during the whole process. With 200mL of sulfuric acid you could have treated 200L of WVO. They say the new stuff is reusable but I'm pretty sure it is impossible to complete recover 100% of the catalyst after use. Best regards, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JJJN Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 2:37 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst Mike, I think you have hit it on the head, The sugar catalyst is plays the role of the Acid in the two stage reaction but I don't think it will complete a reaction all on its own. And the fact that it is reusable is on its own a benefit but unless times and temps are increase beyond the layman grasp I remain very skeptical of it. Now on the other hand this IA State catalyst really shows promise as it would eliminate washing altogether -no?. Well enough of my presumptions - we are witnessing some interesting developments in biofuels. Best Jim Mike McGinness wrote: John, It says the particles are made of sand and calcium. The actual catalysts are attached to the surface of the particle and the active catalyst compound is not described (except to call them mixed oxides). I say catalysts because they mention having both acid and base catalysts on the same particles. by creating a mixed oxide catalyst that has both acidic and basic catalytic sites. Acidic catalysts on the particle can convert the free fatty acids to biodiesel while basic catalysts can convert the oils into fuel. Mike McGinness John Beale wrote: Searching the Des Moines Register website, I found this article: http://snipurl.com/q4m4 Searching the Iowa State University website, I found this article: http://snipurl.com/q4mj It says on the second article that the catalyst is made of calcium and sand, not sugar and sulfuric acid. -John On May 6, 2006, at 11:35 PM, JJJN wrote: My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the (Des Moines?) Register. The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can be filtered. The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale. Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds very much like the glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound. BUT I do not know if it is or something new. Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon. My best Jim. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists. org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.o rg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Hi Chris The way I see it, this new catalyst isn't environment friendly at all. So much energy is needed to pyrolyse sugar at 400 degrees centigrade for 15 hours. On top of that, you need to heat it at 150 degrees with 200mL of concentrated sulfuric acid for another 15 hours. Then you need to wash it to remove the acid. So then where will the acid wash water go? Down the drain? Not to mention the fumes produced during the whole process. Yes. Hot concentrated sulphuric acid lacks appeal. With 200mL of sulfuric acid you could have treated 200L of WVO. They say the new stuff is reusable but I'm pretty sure it is impossible to complete recover 100% of the catalyst after use. I rather agree. You could use biodiesel for the heating, or by-product maybe. But the fact remains. Anyway it's not a new catalyst, it's just a different vehicle for sulphuric acid, the same old catalyst of choice for acid esterification. Still I think it's worth investigating, though like Jim I'm also sceptical about the transesterification. They say it's as good as or better than the ordinary catalyst, but they don't seem to claim any special properties for it. If it's better than ordinary sulphuric maybe that's because they're using more sulphuric. You can afford to if you're reusing it. Full text of sugar catalyst paper http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/sugarcatalyst.pdf 304kb Acrobat file Supplement: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/sugarcatalystsupplement.doc 40kb MSWord file Supplementary Information Methods Preparation of carbon material 20 g of D-glucose or sucrose powder was heated for 15 h at 400 °C under N2 flow to produce a brown-black solid. The solid was then ground to a powder and heated in 200 cm3 of conc. H2SO4 (96%) or 150 cm3 of fuming sulfuric acid (15 wt% SO3) at 150 °C under N2. After heating for 15 h and then cooling to room temperature, 1000 cm3 of distilled water was added to the mixture to form a black precipitate. The precipitate was washed repeatedly in hot distilled water (80 °C) until impurities such as sulfate ions were no longer detected in the wash water. Production of higher fatty acid esters Esterification of higher fatty acids was typically carried out at 80 °C in an ethanol-oleic acid (C17H33COOH)) mixture (ethanol, 0.10 mol; oleic acid, 0.010 mol) and ethanol-stearic (C17H35COOH) acid mixture (ethanol, 0.10 mol; stearic acid, 0.010 mol) under Ar. All tested catalysts except sulfuric acid were evacuated at 100-180 °C for 1 h prior to reaction to remove adsorbed water, and 0.2 g of each catalyst was used in the reactions. The liquid phase during reaction was analyzed by a gas chromatograph mass spectrometer with capillary columns. After the reaction for 4-10 h, the samples were recovered by simple decantation and were reused repeatedly for the reaction. The table doesn't make sense in ASCII so I left it out, check the Word doc. Manick wrote: ... Also I do not believe sugar char is the ideal since we have not seen other chars,including activated carbon and silicas. Further progress is inevitable so let us all keep open mind. I was thinking that too, charcoal or activated carbon wouldn't need the first 15 hours. The report says: Carbon catalysts identical to those described here have also been successfully produced from carbonized starch and cellulose (results not shown). Silica is an interesting idea. We use rice husk ash as a refractory material, but charred rice husk might work well. The Japanese use charred rice husk for making bokashi (sort of inebriated compost), though I don't think much of bokashi. Zeolyte has been made from rice husk. What does sulphuric acid do to clay? How would you get the sulphuric acid into a suitable medium without all that heat? Best Keith Best regards, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JJJN Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 2:37 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst Mike, I think you have hit it on the head, The sugar catalyst is plays the role of the Acid in the two stage reaction but I don't think it will complete a reaction all on its own. And the fact that it is reusable is on its own a benefit but unless times and temps are increase beyond the layman grasp I remain very skeptical of it. Now on the other hand this IA State catalyst really shows promise as it would eliminate washing altogether -no?. Well enough of my presumptions - we are witnessing some interesting developments in biofuels. Best Jim Mike McGinness wrote: John, It says the particles are made of sand and calcium. The actual catalysts are attached to the surface of the particle and the active catalyst compound is not described (except to call them mixed oxides). I say catalysts because they mention having both acid and base catalysts on the same particles. by creating a mixed oxide catalyst that has both acidic
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Hi Chris, Keep in mind we are talking about two Separate catalysts here one is this Sugar Acid catalyst and the other is the ACID/BASE catalyst one developed by the University of IA. I agree with you the Sugar acid Catalyst sound rather energy intense and may not do the whole job ether. Now on the other hand the University of IA catalyst is one that can be used for the whole job and holds the promise of not having to spend the energy of washing and drying the fuel. Nothing is known how it is made so it is yet to be learned what kind of energy goes into is making. I wonder how much energy and fossil fuel goes into manufacturing a gram of KOH? Jim Chris Tan wrote: The way I see it, this new catalyst isn't environment friendly at all. So much energy is needed to pyrolyse sugar at 400 degrees centigrade for 15 hours. On top of that, you need to heat it at 150 degrees with 200mL of concentrated sulfuric acid for another 15 hours. Then you need to wash it to remove the acid. So then where will the acid wash water go? Down the drain? Not to mention the fumes produced during the whole process. With 200mL of sulfuric acid you could have treated 200L of WVO. They say the new stuff is reusable but I'm pretty sure it is impossible to complete recover 100% of the catalyst after use. Best regards, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JJJN Sent: Sunday, May 07, 2006 2:37 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst Mike, I think you have hit it on the head, The sugar catalyst is plays the role of the Acid in the two stage reaction but I don't think it will complete a reaction all on its own. And the fact that it is reusable is on its own a benefit but unless times and temps are increase beyond the layman grasp I remain very skeptical of it. Now on the other hand this IA State catalyst really shows promise as it would eliminate washing altogether -no?. Well enough of my presumptions - we are witnessing some interesting developments in biofuels. Best Jim Mike McGinness wrote: John, It says the particles are made of sand and calcium. The actual catalysts are attached to the surface of the particle and the active catalyst compound is not described (except to call them mixed oxides). I say catalysts because they mention having both acid and base catalysts on the same particles. by creating a mixed oxide catalyst that has both acidic and basic catalytic sites. Acidic catalysts on the particle can convert the free fatty acids to biodiesel while basic catalysts can convert the oils into fuel. Mike McGinness John Beale wrote: Searching the Des Moines Register website, I found this article: http://snipurl.com/q4m4 Searching the Iowa State University website, I found this article: http://snipurl.com/q4mj It says on the second article that the catalyst is made of calcium and sand, not sugar and sulfuric acid. -John On May 6, 2006, at 11:35 PM, JJJN wrote: My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the (Des Moines?) Register. The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can be filtered. The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale. Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds very much like the glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound. BUT I do not know if it is or something new. Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon. My best Jim. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists. org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.o rg Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
I hope it leads to some good results as well. The second article from the Iowa State shed much more light on it and I'm glad John found it and passed it on. I'm not trying to be negative. We need more Mr.Lins. I just wish that with his knowledge and training he could remain focused on research rather than having to split his time starting a company and campaigning for research dollars to continue his work. On the other hand having a reality check with new ideas to see if they produce economically viable results in the marketplace is important too. I wish Mr.Lin well but just think of the progress if we threw some real dollars at this area - like for example a fraction of the military and defense research spending. Steve On Monday 08 May 2006 10:55 am, JJJN wrote: Hello Steve, Yea it a bummer to see our think tanks beg, but the bottom line is if they start producing the catalyst for sale, chances are we can buy it, not so different than going to your local chemical supply and buying KOH eh? I think Mr Lin is trying to use his minute in the limelight to express what they have done and give the State a good kicking in the butt to start supporting what they at the university do (Academics vs Sports) and after the Hawkeyes Basketball season why not? I don't agree with -see below... Best Jim Steve Racz wrote: Here is the article online (using snipurl!) http://snipurl.com/q4st If the catalyst is reusable, but only 20 times, what happens then? Can the catalyst be recycled? The details are vague but it seems that this is intentional as it seems Mr. Lin and his colleagues and especially the University of Iowa are trying to cash in on their research, not share it. Sorry if I sound like a cynic, but the article sounds more like a free informercial touting the benefits of university and industry collaboration (read - how to raise $$$ for the University) with the work with renewable fuels being only the buzzword to bind it together. Not that I don't think that there shouldn't be collaboration, it's that this is blatantly using biodiesel research as a headliner and not much else. Not much else? Then Why is the Coop going to start Commercially testing the Catalyst? I'm actually saddened that with all the blah, blah about being addicted to oil, that begging is still required by universities for funding of research that seems so basic and that people like Mr.Lin are forced into the commercial world when clearly it's not ready for commercialization. Right the catalyst is not ready for commercialization but it is ready to test for that purpose. Please don't misunderstand me, I hope it becomes available but until the next 1000 yards of research and testing is complete I am not going to cancel any orders for KOH. It does state : Grants from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the U.S. Department of Energy and the state's Iowa Values Fund have helped support the ISU researchers' work. but that doesn't stop them from saying this: If the work with West Central shows the catalysts will work on a commercial scale, Lin may form a company to produce the catalysts. But that, as well as continuing research on campus, will take significant funding, he and others said. If we could get support from the state and from these local companies, there is no reason why it would not stay here, Lin said. I see opportunity in Iowa. Steve On Sunday 07 May 2006 03:35 pm, JJJN wrote: My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the (Des Moines?) Register. The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can be filtered. The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale. Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds very much like the glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound. BUT I do not know if it is or something new. Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon. My best Jim. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Steve Racz (03) 383 8167 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Looking in Prof Lin's publications, you can see a few references that appear to be about the catalyst. If you are like me and were wondering about the chemistry behind it, then perhaps check out this one: http://snipurl.com/q4no from Journal of Catalysis, 2003. (If you don't have a subscription, you may not be able to view) There are others. The list of publications can be found here: http://www.chem.iastate.edu/faculty/Victor_Lin/publication.html -John On May 6, 2006, at 11:35 PM, JJJN wrote: My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the (Des Moines?) Register. The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can be filtered. The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale. Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds very much like the glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound. BUT I do not know if it is or something new. Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon. My best Jim. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Searching the Des Moines Register website, I found this article: http://snipurl.com/q4m4 Searching the Iowa State University website, I found this article: http://snipurl.com/q4mj It says on the second article that the catalyst is made of calcium and sand, not sugar and sulfuric acid. -John On May 6, 2006, at 11:35 PM, JJJN wrote: My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the (Des Moines?) Register. The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can be filtered. The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale. Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds very much like the glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound. BUT I do not know if it is or something new. Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon. My best Jim. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Thank you for the information John it is helpfull now to get reading. Best Jim John Beale wrote: Looking in Prof Lin's publications, you can see a few references that appear to be about the catalyst. If you are like me and were wondering about the chemistry behind it, then perhaps check out this one: http://snipurl.com/q4no from Journal of Catalysis, 2003. (If you don't have a subscription, you may not be able to view) There are others. The list of publications can be found here: http://www.chem.iastate.edu/faculty/Victor_Lin/publication.html -John On May 6, 2006, at 11:35 PM, JJJN wrote: My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the (Des Moines?) Register. The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can be filtered. The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale. Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds very much like the glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound. BUT I do not know if it is or something new. Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon. My best Jim. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Here is the article online (using snipurl!) http://snipurl.com/q4st If the catalyst is reusable, but only 20 times, what happens then? Can the catalyst be recycled? The details are vague but it seems that this is intentional as it seems Mr. Lin and his colleagues and especially the University of Iowa are trying to cash in on their research, not share it. Sorry if I sound like a cynic, but the article sounds more like a free informercial touting the benefits of university and industry collaboration (read - how to raise $$$ for the University) with the work with renewable fuels being only the buzzword to bind it together. Not that I don't think that there shouldn't be collaboration, it's that this is blatantly using biodiesel research as a headliner and not much else. I'm actually saddened that with all the blah, blah about being addicted to oil, that begging is still required by universities for funding of research that seems so basic and that people like Mr.Lin are forced into the commercial world when clearly it's not ready for commercialization. It does state : Grants from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the U.S. Department of Energy and the state's Iowa Values Fund have helped support the ISU researchers' work. but that doesn't stop them from saying this: If the work with West Central shows the catalysts will work on a commercial scale, Lin may form a company to produce the catalysts. But that, as well as continuing research on campus, will take significant funding, he and others said. If we could get support from the state and from these local companies, there is no reason why it would not stay here, Lin said. I see opportunity in Iowa. Steve On Sunday 07 May 2006 03:35 pm, JJJN wrote: My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the (Des Moines?) Register. The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can be filtered. The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale. Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds very much like the glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound. BUT I do not know if it is or something new. Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon. My best Jim. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Steve Racz (03) 383 8167 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
John, It says the particles are made of sand and calcium. The actual catalysts are attached to the surface of the particle and the active catalyst compound is not described (except to call them mixed oxides). I say catalysts because they mention having both acid and base catalysts on the same particles. by creating a mixed oxide catalyst that has both acidic and basic catalytic sites. Acidic catalysts on the particle can convert the free fatty acids to biodiesel while basic catalysts can convert the oils into fuel. Mike McGinness John Beale wrote: Searching the Des Moines Register website, I found this article: http://snipurl.com/q4m4 Searching the Iowa State University website, I found this article: http://snipurl.com/q4mj It says on the second article that the catalyst is made of calcium and sand, not sugar and sulfuric acid. -John On May 6, 2006, at 11:35 PM, JJJN wrote: My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the (Des Moines?) Register. The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can be filtered. The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale. Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds very much like the glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound. BUT I do not know if it is or something new. Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon. My best Jim. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Mike, I think you have hit it on the head, The sugar catalyst is plays the role of the Acid in the two stage reaction but I don't think it will complete a reaction all on its own. And the fact that it is reusable is on its own a benefit but unless times and temps are increase beyond the layman grasp I remain very skeptical of it. Now on the other hand this IA State catalyst really shows promise as it would eliminate washing altogether -no?. Well enough of my presumptions - we are witnessing some interesting developments in biofuels. Best Jim Mike McGinness wrote: John, It says the particles are made of sand and calcium. The actual catalysts are attached to the surface of the particle and the active catalyst compound is not described (except to call them mixed oxides). I say catalysts because they mention having both acid and base catalysts on the same particles. by creating a mixed oxide catalyst that has both acidic and basic catalytic sites. Acidic catalysts on the particle can convert the free fatty acids to biodiesel while basic catalysts can convert the oils into fuel. Mike McGinness John Beale wrote: Searching the Des Moines Register website, I found this article: http://snipurl.com/q4m4 Searching the Iowa State University website, I found this article: http://snipurl.com/q4mj It says on the second article that the catalyst is made of calcium and sand, not sugar and sulfuric acid. -John On May 6, 2006, at 11:35 PM, JJJN wrote: My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the (Des Moines?) Register. The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can be filtered. The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale. Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds very much like the glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound. BUT I do not know if it is or something new. Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon. My best Jim. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/ biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
Hello Steve, Yea it a bummer to see our think tanks beg, but the bottom line is if they start producing the catalyst for sale, chances are we can buy it, not so different than going to your local chemical supply and buying KOH eh? I think Mr Lin is trying to use his minute in the limelight to express what they have done and give the State a good kicking in the butt to start supporting what they at the university do (Academics vs Sports) and after the Hawkeyes Basketball season why not? I don't agree with -see below... Best Jim Steve Racz wrote: Here is the article online (using snipurl!) http://snipurl.com/q4st If the catalyst is reusable, but only 20 times, what happens then? Can the catalyst be recycled? The details are vague but it seems that this is intentional as it seems Mr. Lin and his colleagues and especially the University of Iowa are trying to cash in on their research, not share it. Sorry if I sound like a cynic, but the article sounds more like a free informercial touting the benefits of university and industry collaboration (read - how to raise $$$ for the University) with the work with renewable fuels being only the buzzword to bind it together. Not that I don't think that there shouldn't be collaboration, it's that this is blatantly using biodiesel research as a headliner and not much else. Not much else? Then Why is the Coop going to start Commercially testing the Catalyst? I'm actually saddened that with all the blah, blah about being addicted to oil, that begging is still required by universities for funding of research that seems so basic and that people like Mr.Lin are forced into the commercial world when clearly it's not ready for commercialization. Right the catalyst is not ready for commercialization but it is ready to test for that purpose. Please don't misunderstand me, I hope it becomes available but until the next 1000 yards of research and testing is complete I am not going to cancel any orders for KOH. It does state : Grants from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, the U.S. Department of Energy and the state's Iowa Values Fund have helped support the ISU researchers' work. but that doesn't stop them from saying this: If the work with West Central shows the catalysts will work on a commercial scale, Lin may form a company to produce the catalysts. But that, as well as continuing research on campus, will take significant funding, he and others said. If we could get support from the state and from these local companies, there is no reason why it would not stay here, Lin said. I see opportunity in Iowa. Steve On Sunday 07 May 2006 03:35 pm, JJJN wrote: My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the (Des Moines?) Register. The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can be filtered. The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale. Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds very much like the glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound. BUT I do not know if it is or something new. Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon. My best Jim. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] New Biodiesel Catalyst
My mother in law sent me an article by Anne Fitzgerald writing for the (Des Moines?) Register. The article states that Victor Lin and two fellow University of Iowa Chemists have created a new catalyst that is reusable (20 times) and can be filtered. The catalyst will be quite a bit more expensive than what we are using now but will pay out over time because of the reuse. West Central cooperative is going to test the catalyst on a commercial scale. Anne Fitzgerald can be reached at 515 284 8122 or at [EMAIL PROTECTED] This sounds very much like the glucose/carbon/sulfur carbon compound. BUT I do not know if it is or something new. Well lets hope this becomes available to us all very soon. My best Jim. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
