Keith: I successfully ran a test batch using the heads and middle portion
of the distillation (light alcohols and ethanol). The wash test and
methanol tests showed a complete conversion. I used 28% alcohol by
volume. The
more dilute tails go in a barrel to be run again at a later date. I
Keith: I successfully ran a test batch using the heads and middle portion
of the distillation (light alcohols and ethanol). The wash test and
methanol tests showed a complete conversion. I used 28% alcohol by volume.
The
more dilute tails go in a barrel to be run again at a later date. I
Hello Lee
Did you have any results yet with heads and tails tests?
Best
Keith
Keith: Thanks for responding. I do a second distillation using calcium
chloride and then 3A molecular sieve to dry the alcohol. So far I have been
using 50% lard mixed with 50% soybean oil (both used) . I am in
Keith: Thanks for responding. I do a second distillation using calcium
chloride and then 3A molecular sieve to dry the alcohol. So far I have been
using 50% lard mixed with 50% soybean oil (both used) . I am in the process
of eliminating the lard and using used soybean oil with a titration
Hello Lee
I have been making biodiesel using ethanol for about a year. Methanol is
$500 a barrel in Hawaii. I'm having some difficulty with partial conversions
with substantial vegetable oil remaining dissolved in the ethyl esters
demonstrable by the methanol test. I have been using 99% alcohol
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Biodiesel New Process)
On Apr 21, 2007, at 5:35 PM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
I suspect I'm not done asking for help though.
After a bit of poking around, I see the best place
to start is (surprise!) Journey
PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Biodiesel New Process)
On Apr 20, 2007, at 7:19 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
Can I bypass sprouting by using enzymes (bacterial amylase) on cracked
grain to break the starch
On Apr 21, 2007, at 12:19 PM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
Why buy enzymes, when sprouting some grain produces the
enzymes needed to digest starch in unsprouted grains, sweet
potatoes, or Jerusalem artichokes.
Have I got it right?
Yup, at least that's how i see it. Traditionally the sprouted grain
though.
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Biodiesel New Process)
On Apr 21, 2007, at 12:19
On Apr 21, 2007, at 5:35 PM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
How much sprouted grain : total starch? Probably better to err
on the side of too much rather than too little.
My notes on mashing corn are all packed away now, but you
should be able to learn the details from appropriate Google
searches (eg,
On Apr 21, 2007, at 5:35 PM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
I suspect I'm not done asking for help though.
After a bit of poking around, I see the best place
to start is (surprise!) Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/
manual6-7.html
JtoF really is an
On Apr 21, 2007, at 5:35 PM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
I suspect I'm not done asking for help though.
After a bit of poking around, I see the best place
to start is (surprise!) Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual6-7.html
JtoF really is an
Thanks,
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2007 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Biodiesel New Process)
On Apr 19, 2007, at 11:06
On Apr 20, 2007, at 7:19 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
Can I bypass sprouting by using enzymes (bacterial amylase) on cracked
grain to break the starch in grain into simple (fermentable) sugars?
Somewhere down the line, if all goes well, I will probably move
towards
other feedstocks that are
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Ken Provost
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Biodiesel New Process)
On Apr 18, 2007, at 10:42 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
Is it actually
]
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Biodiesel New Process)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:58:58 -0700
On Apr 18, 2007, at 10:42 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
Is it actually possible for a person to produce 99+% pure ethanol using
On Apr 19, 2007, at 11:06 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
My questions go to point that you were able to achieve 95+%
completion,
and the fact that, in practice, we would like to maximize ethanol
output as
well as achieving complete sugar utilization.
Google Gert Strand -- they make a
I am very keen to get off the meth also Jim. I have by no means given
up or anything, just haven't got to it yet. I did collect some ethanol
but didn't get as far as you with the sieves. Read up on using corn
grits which looks very promising. I should push myself to get some
progress on
@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Biodiesel New Process)
I am very keen to get off the meth also Jim. I have by no means given up or
anything, just haven't got to it yet. I did collect some ethanol but didn't
get as far as you
ROFL. Sorry I guess I should have gone to bed before 3 am last
nighter this morning. Ahh coffee
Sorry Tom.
Joe
PS Did u recover the ethanol from the keg? ;^
Thomas Kelly wrote:
Hey Joe,
How many times have I asked you not to call me Jim?
Actually, it's quite an
-
From: Joe Street
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Biodiesel New Process)
ROFL. Sorry I guess I should have gone to bed before 3 am last nighter
this morning. Ahh coffee
Sorry Tom.
Joe
PS
On Apr 18, 2007, at 10:42 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
Is it actually possible for a person to produce 99+% pure ethanol
using readily available materials,
and at reasonable cost, or must it be produced on an industrial
scale? Are any of you making it in
your backyard?
I have actually made
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Biodiesel New Process)
Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:58:58 -0700
On Apr 18, 2007, at 10:42 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
Is it actually possible for a person to produce 99+% pure ethanol using
readily available materials
, November 27, 2006 10:09 AM
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Hi Tom;
Yes you got the idea I am thinking about. I worked a bit on the
setup last night. I've got some old pinot noir I made a few years
back ( which is a difficult grape at the best
, December 01, 2006 8:23 AM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Hi Tom
Well I put a couple of bottles of my hooch in a flask and dumped enough
castor oil on top to form a layer about 2cm thick. Heated to 60 degrees C
and started to nod off while
] On Behalf Of Joe Street
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 8:23 AM
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Hi Tom
Well I put a couple of bottles of my hooch in a flask and dumped enough
castor oil on top to form a layer about 2cm thick. Heated to 60
. Navnit
From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:14:19 -0500
Joe,
What's the word?
I've had my fingers, eyes,and heart (?) crossed
.
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Joe Street
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Hi Tom
Well I put a couple of bottles of my hooch in a flask
]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 11:17 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Tom. Castor oil idea is a bum. I pour 100 ml of castor oil ln flask
containing 500ml of fermented broth with about 7.5% ethanol. stirred it
good
and left it over
:* Joe Street mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org
mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Friday, December 01, 2006 9:23 AM
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Hi Tom
Well I put a couple of bottles of my hooch in a flask
: Logan vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Doesn't castor oil absorb alcohol? If so the heat would cause the alcohol
to
evaporate out of the water, but it would combine
Katie [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
its all about the surface area. i assume the flask you were using had an
opening of between three and five cm? try using a wide shallow pan
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Hi Tom;
Yes you got the idea I am thinking about. I worked a bit on the setup last
night. I've got some old pinot noir I made a few years back ( which is a
difficult grape at the best
, Tom
- Original Message -
From: Ken Provost
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
On Nov 26, 2006, at 7:47 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
The idea on denaturing
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Well Tom;
Seives will definitely do but there are the nagging problems we
discussed. You could make a trap by welding or modifying a
suitable pressure vessel. I was thinking of using a scrapped fire
extinguisher
Kerosene works. It is neutral in the reaction and can be separated later by
freezing the bio. (If you would want to??)
From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Date: Mon
Go gettem Joe! we all wait a shivers for your results!
From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 10:09:05 -0500
Hi Tom;
Yes you got the idea I am
] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Kerosene works. It is neutral in the reaction and can be separated later
by
freezing the bio. (If you would want to??)
From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl
@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Kerosene works. It is neutral in the reaction and can be separated later by
freezing the bio. (If you would want to??)
From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL
On Nov 27, 2006, at 5:16 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
Can ethanol be denatured and still be used to make ethyl esters?
Yes. I've used standard paint store denatured ethanol (hardware stores
rarely have anhydrous) with methanol and methyl isobutyl ketone as
denaturants with no problems. As
%?) be suitable for
gas cars?
Tom
- Original Message -
From: JAMES PHELPS
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 11:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Joe
of gas. H
Jim
- Original Message -
*From:* Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
*To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org
*Sent:* Saturday, November 25, 2006 5:42 AM
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Hi Joe,
I didn't follow you when you wrote:
I am really curious
On Nov 26, 2006, at 7:47 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
The idea on denaturing the ethanol is to make it unsuitable for
drinking.
Would ~ 2% BD make it unsuitable for drinking?
If not, couldn't it be denatured with methanol?
There are several levels of denaturing -- fully denatured needs to
Foul tasting eh. In my opinion, beer is foul tasting and thus would be a
suitable denaturant but I suspect the regulatory bodies wouldn't agree
with me.
On 11/26/06, Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Nov 26, 2006, at 7:47 AM, Thomas Kelly wrote:
The idea on denaturing the
think.
Jason
ICQ#: 154998177
MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: Joe Street
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Well Tom;
Seives will definitely do
hesitate to correct me if I have it all wrong.
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Joe Street
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 4:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making
Message -
From: Thomas Kellymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgmailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 5:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol)
Hi Joe,
I didn't follow you when you wrote:
I am
Tom:
I can understand how a keg full of beer could present a problem. I'm sure
however that you will find some volunteers from this list to help you out.
Doug
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Thomas Kelly
Sent: Friday, November 24,
Well Tom;
Seives will definitely do but there are the nagging problems we
discussed. You could make a trap by welding or modifying a suitable
pressure vessel. I was thinking of using a scrapped fire extinguisher.
Put a fitting on the other end end and screens in the bottom to keep
the
The Aussies no doubt!
J;)
Doug Turner wrote:
Tom:
I can understand how a keg full of beer could present a problem. I'm
sure however that you will find some volunteers from this list to help
you out.
Doug
-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL
Doug
I like that help a mate out mentality.
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Doug Turner
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 2:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethyl Esters (was Making Methanol
on 10/13/03 5:50 PM, shawstafari at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was looking at the ATF's formulas for
denatured ethanol and have a question
about ethyl esters. Under formula no. 32
(which is 100 gallons of ethanol, and 5
gallons of ethyl ether as denaturant) it
states that it is authorized
I strongly recommend you start off making methyl esters. Ethyl esters
is much more difficult. Start off with small batches, maybe one
litre, first with new oil (uncooked), then try titration and used
oil.
Keith
What does the term titration mean?
George
Titration determines
Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 7:51 PM
Subject: RE: [biofuel] ethyl esters
You will pardon a newcomer's dumb questions. What is high-FFA?? (FFA?)
Andy
Hi Andy
Questions aren't dumb - it's dumb not to ask questions, eh?
FFA = free
: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2002 5:02 AM
Subject: RE: [biofuel] ethyl esters
Thank you, Keith.
You're welcome.
I am beginning to feel confident enough about this process
to attempt my first BD test scale production with cooking oil
- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 16:51
Subject: RE: [biofuel] ethyl esters
Questions aren't dumb - it's dumb not to ask questions, eh?
Good, I think I have one.
High levels of
free fatty acids retard or stop the reaction. You have
- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 16:51
Subject: RE: [biofuel] ethyl esters
Questions aren't dumb - it's dumb not to ask questions, eh?
Good, I think I have one.
High levels of
free fatty acids retard or stop the reaction. You have
Keith Addison writes:
Ken uses an ethyl esters process that is intolerant of titration
levels much higher than 1 ml.
Above 1 ml titration, good results can be had by including some
methanol in the mix. By using a 3:1 ethanol:methanol mixture, oil
up to 3 ml titer works fine.
It has yet to be
I strongly recommend you start off making methyl esters. Ethyl esters
is much more difficult. Start off with small batches, maybe one
litre, first with new oil (uncooked), then try titration and used
oil.
Keith
What does the term titration mean?
George
You will pardon a newcomer's dumb questions. What is high-FFA?? (FFA?)
Andy
- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Cc: biofuels-biz@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2002 5:23 PM
Subject: [biofuel] ethyl esters
Interesting... so
You will pardon a newcomer's dumb questions. What is high-FFA?? (FFA?)
Andy
Hi Andy
Questions aren't dumb - it's dumb not to ask questions, eh?
FFA = free fatty acids. This is why you do titration in making
biodiesel, to determine the amount of FFAs in the oil. Titration is
not necessary if
]
- Original Message -
From: Andrs Stepkowski [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 8:41 AM
Subject: RE: [biofuel] ethyl esters
You will pardon a newcomer's dumb questions. What is high-FFA?? (FFA?)
Andy
- Original Message -
From: Keith Addison
/
Human powered devices, equipment, and transport -
http://24.190.106.81:8383/2000/humanpower.htm
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: steve spence [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] ethyl esters
Free Fatty
: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 7:51 PM
Subject: RE: [biofuel] ethyl esters
You will pardon a newcomer's dumb questions. What is high-FFA?? (FFA?)
Andy
Hi Andy
Questions aren't dumb - it's dumb not to ask questions, eh?
FFA = free fatty acids. This is why you do titration in making
biodiesel
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