Re: [SWCollect] Vintage games w/fatal flaws
Darklands (and Daggerfall) had a fair share of bugs, but they'd rarely crash after the final patch. At least they crashed less than several modern games fully patched! ;) -- Pedro R. Quaresma Salvador Caetano IMVT Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492) Toyota Prius '01, Verdi Steel, 37K km. Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A/C: Ref: cc: Assunto: Re: [SWCollect] Vintage games w/fatal flaws Dan Chisarick [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05-12-2003 05:07 Solicita-se resposta a swcollect One word: Darklands. On Dec 4, 2003, at 10:26 AM, Pedro Quaresma wrote: Darksun 2 (SSI) was an excellent RPG with the exception that it was virtually unfinishable due to the huge amount of bugs it had. SSI later released a patch but some of the bugs remained (having your best weapons occasionally vanish can be the most frustrating thing on a RPG), so IIRC they officially canceled support for the game, on the grounds that it had too many bugs to patch. Later on there were other flawed games, like Shogo, that could not be finished unless you had downloaded and installed the 21Mb patch! The most serious case IMHO was Ubisoft's Pool of Radiance 2. The game couldn't be uninstalled because if you attempted to, it'd delete your windows partition! :O Many users found this bug the hard way. -- Pedro R. Quaresma Salvador Caetano IMVT Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492) Toyota Prius '01, Verdi Steel, 37K km. Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] A/C: Ref: cc: Assunto: Re: [SWCollect] Vintage games w/fatal flaws Chris Newman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04-12-2003 15:23 Solicita-se resposta a swcollect Mines of Titan by Westwood / Infocom from 1989 comes to mind. The game plot involves travelling to cities on the surface of Titan. The key city, Procesnium, was expected to be discovered and entered via an underground network. However, if you find the city on the surface of the planet and attempt to enter it the game freezes and throws up strange graphics chunks in the display window. At the time I assumed I had a bad copy, or played it on an incompatable machine (Tandy), etc. I went back to this game, on and off, for years but was hit with the same problem. I found out only recently that the problem is a coding bug. Drove me nuts! I spent many hours playing that game only to give up completely frustrated. - Original Message - From: Dan Chisarick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 9:13 AM Subject: [SWCollect] Vintage games w/fatal flaws Just wondering if anyone has any good stories of an older game they were playing that was somehow unbeatable due to a coding flaw, or just downright not fun for design reasons. I've been looking for an original 'Doriath' for years. I stumbled on this site, and my free time being what it is these days, say what the hell and just read the walkthrough. The game is unbeatable! That's not in the good sense: http://members.shaw.ca/Doriath/Walkthru.htm If you read the walkthrough and then follow the links at the bottom, you never get an acknowledgment from the game that you've won. There's a link to an interview w/the developers that explains you've essentially won once you make it to a certain room. Its sad to see a game never being polished because of artificial deadlines (like that never happens anymore) or even more frighteningly, running out of memory/disk space. Second to this are games that take hours to beat, give you one life, have no save feature, and you can put the game in an unwinable state and not realize it. Console games (at least earlier ones) seem particular guilty of such offenses. Thrown in certain Mindscape games (Spell of Destruction and Fairlight I think fell into this hole, at least partially). Third would have to be needless player frustration: Jumping puzzles, tedious movement puzzles (Sierra 3D games are notorious for this), and I'd have to throw in my entering the words of Truth, Love and Courage in the wrong order after spending 2.5 hours getting to the bottom of a certain 8-level dungeon to get the Codex of Infinite Wisdom just to be kicked back to the surface. Augh! (Its corveramo , no veramocor :) Last, and somewhat humorously, ever type in a game in Basic or assembly from a magazine, and it didn't work? Seems the feature title ALWAYS had some little typo in it that would require you to buy next month's issue to resolve? :) With DVD-ROM titles, cheat codes, strategy guides, and every game
Re: [SWCollect] Vintage games w/fatal flaws
Jim Leonard wrote: I'd have to throw in my entering the words of Truth, Love and Courage in the wrong order after spending 2.5 hours getting to the bottom of a certain 8-level dungeon to get the Codex of Infinite Wisdom just to be kicked back to the surface. Augh! (Its corveramo , no veramocor :) Which Ultima game was that? OK let's see if my memory doesn't betray me (again!) It was Ultima 4, but veramocor was the word used to get into the final dungeon, not the word to be used in the end of it. In the end, the word infinity had to be used (after the principles and its virtues), but if you typed the wrong word you'd get kicked back to the surface. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. It's been quite some time since I played Ultima 4. -- Pedro R. Quaresma Salvador Caetano IMVT Div. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information Division Administração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development [EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492) Toyota Prius '01, Verdi Steel, 37K km. ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Online http://www.toyota.pt
Re: [SWCollect] Vintage games w/fatal flaws
Dan Chisarick stated: That reminds me about The Immortal on the PC. *Twice* I played it to the dragon, twice the @#(%@(#*% thing froze on me on that board. And that reminds me about Trog. It was an Acclaim port of the arcade game. (It' s, for lack of a better term, a Pac-Man-like game featuring dinosaurs and cavemen. See http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=Tgame_id=10201.) I'd work my way up in levels and then it would freeze. It never happened at exactly the same point (as far as I could tell), just after I'd been playing a game for quite a while. I thought it had something to do with my PC being a non-standard 20 MHz 286 clone, but when I got my next computer (133 MHz Pentium), it did the same thing. At least now I have MAME (but it still bugs me). -- Lee K. Seitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
RE: [SWCollect] Vintage games w/fatal flaws
Title: Message Yeah, you're correct about being kicked back to the top of the Abyss. Pretty uncool. Another Ultima with a big problem is Ultima 5. When you find Lord British in the mirror at the bottom of the Dungeon Doom, which is at the bottom of the Underworld, if you do NOT have the Sandalwood Box that's hidden behind his bookcase in his magically locked bedroom atop Castle Britannia, you are screwed and are stuck in the room with him forever. If you do have the box, the game ends normally. And you don't get any kind of warning whatsoever that this will happen. - John -Original Message-From: MASTER [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pedro QuaresmaSent: Friday, December 05, 2003 1:25 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Vintage games w/fatal flawsJim Leonard wrote: I'd have to throw in my entering the words of "Truth, Love and Courage" in the wrong order after spending 2.5 hours getting to the bottom of a certain 8-level dungeon to get the Codex of Infinite Wisdom just to be kicked back to the surface. Augh! (Its "corveramo" , no "veramocor" :)Which Ultima game was that?OK let's see if my memory doesn't betray me (again!) It was Ultima 4, but "veramocor" was the word used to get into the final dungeon, not the word to be used in the end of it. In the end, the word "infinity" had to be used (after the principles and its virtues), but if you typed the wrong word you'd get kicked back to the surface. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. It's been quite some time since I played Ultima 4.--Pedro R. QuaresmaSalvador Caetano IMVTDiv. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information DivisionAdministração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development[EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492)Toyota Prius '01, Verdi Steel, 37K km.ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Onlinehttp://www.toyota.pt
RE: [SWCollect] Vintage games w/fatal flaws
Title: Message
Hehe...I remember shlepping that box around throughout most of the game,
wondering what the heck it could possibly be. My Dad thought it was a coffin,
and that at the end of the game you would find Lord British's corpse and have to
bring it back in the box. : )
Stuart
-Original Message-From: John Romero
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:39
AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [SWCollect]
Vintage games w/fatal flaws
Yeah, you're correct about being kicked back to the top of the
Abyss. Pretty uncool.
Another Ultima with a big problem is Ultima 5. When you find Lord
British in the mirror at the bottom of the Dungeon Doom, which is at the
bottom of the Underworld, if you do NOT have the Sandalwood Box that's hidden
behind his bookcase in his magically locked bedroom atop Castle Britannia, you
are screwed and are stuck in the room with him forever. If you do have
the box, the game ends normally. And you don't get any kind of warning
whatsoever that this will happen.
- John
-Original Message-From: MASTER
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pedro
QuaresmaSent: Friday, December 05, 2003 1:25 AMTo:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Vintage games
w/fatal flawsJim
Leonard wrote: I'd have
to throw in my entering the words of "Truth, Love and Courage"
in the wrong order after spending 2.5 hours getting to the bottom of a
certain 8-level dungeon to get the Codex of Infinite Wisdom
just to be kicked back to the surface. Augh! (Its
"corveramo" , no "veramocor" :)Which Ultima game was
that?OK let's see if my
memory doesn't betray me (again!) It was Ultima 4, but "veramocor" was the word used to get into the
final dungeon, not the word to be used in the end of it.
In the end, the word "infinity" had
to be used (after the principles and its virtues), but if you typed the
wrong word you'd get kicked back to the surface. Someone please
correct me if I'm wrong. It's been quite some time since I played Ultima
4.--Pedro R.
QuaresmaSalvador Caetano IMVTDiv. Sistemas de Informação / Systems
and Information DivisionAdministração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes /
Lotus Notes Administration and
Development[EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext.
3492)Toyota Prius '01, Verdi Steel, 37K
km.ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota
Onlinehttp://www.toyota.pt
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Fw: [SWCollect] Repairing floppies (long)
(Sorry for the duplicate message to you, Jim, didn't realize you had replied in private.) - Original Message - From: C.E. Forman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jim Leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 2:28 PM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Repairing floppies (long) Yes, that completely answers my question, thanks Jim. I think the problem my German friend had was the fact that, if you did rewrite it, the disk would NOT have been written at the factory. Even if the buyer couldn't tell, the seller who repaired it would know. As I recall, we were having a discussion on how people could replace missing game parts with substitutes that couldn't be distinguished -- HHGG fluff, reprint of the Suspended folio parser bug letter, I've seen palm-tree swizzle sticks very similar to the one in Hijinx, etc. (This preceded all the counterfeiting crap in the last couple of years, BTW.) His attitude was that rewriting the disk was the equivalent of that: The user would assume he was buying an original factory-written disk, when in fact, though the disk was an original, the software on it had been rewritten. For the record, I don't agree, I just think it's an interesting dilemma. - Original Message - From: Jim Leonard [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: C.E. Forman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 1:09 AM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Repairing floppies (long) C.E. Forman wrote: Fascinating stuff, Jim, and well explained for us less technical collectors. Your paragraph on disk rewrites made me think of something I've brought up briefly in one or more of my columns but never really discussed, which is: Is it okay to rewrite a collectible disk? I personally would say yes, but the last time I was in Europe one of my German collector friends insisted no, that would devalue it in his mind. He even went so far as to say he'd prefer a non-functional but unrewritten disk to a rewrite that worked perfectly. Anybody else have feelings on this? (For the record, I would write in my description that the media was rewritten, just in case it mattered that much to anyone else.) To give my thoughts on the issue, you have to define what you mean by okay. For example, is it okay from a collecting standpoint, technical standpoint, etc.? From a technical standpoint, I would have to say that it would be OK if the disk is NOT working, meaning you wrote to it in an effort to repair it (or restore it to it's factory condition, like erasing somebody's old high scores and saved games). Case in point: Due to a slipup on my part, I accidentally damaged my original PC booter 1986 Tass Times in Tonetown disk about four years ago. (In case you're wondering how that happened, I fat-fingered the wrong drive unit number during some sector editing and had forgot to put a write-protect tab on my original.) I spent a few days repairing it looking through older disks to find my backup and then copied the first sector back onto the original disk (it was the first sector that I had erased by accident). By writing to the disk, I restored it to perfect condition -- a bytewise comparison would have been identical to the diskette before I had messed it up. So in that case, I wholeheartedly say that writing to disks to fix them is not only acceptable but encouraged *if the end result is identical to when the diskette was first written at the factory*. I have to say I am completely puzzled by your collector friend who claims he would rather have a non-functional disk that was not written to. If it doesn't work, how can he ever know if it hasn't been written to? :-) Now, from a collecting standpoint, I would have to say that writing to the disk is probably not a good idea if there is nothing wrong with it. If you had an opened box and wanted to test the game before, say, selling it, and you played the game and got a high score that was written to disk before you could turn off the computer, then I would definitely say that you degraded the disk from a purity standpoint. You couldn't ever call that disk Near Mint... Well... Playing devil's advocate, if you could replace the affected sector(s) to become original again from a backup copy, you could effectively turn the disk back into NM status because nobody could ever know that the disk had been written to :-). But I still think that it's not adviseable, because drives can have their alignment slip over time, and a disk that has been written to in one drive has the slight possibility of not being read in a different one. In other words, don't tempt fate. Does that answer your question? -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.oldskool.org/ Want to help an ambitious games project? http://www.mobygames.com/ Or check out some trippy MindCandy at http://www.mindcandydvd.com/
Re: [SWCollect] Repairing floppies (long)
Games enjoy a particular virtue in that their data is digital and can be copied exactly 'till the end of time (to a point, but that's another story about nibble counts and the like). So even if you made an exact copy of the game, using the same data on the same media, has it retained its original value? Since it is indistinguishable from the original item, yes. I'm assuming you're referring only to software (the non-physical aspect of the game) here. B-) -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Vintage games w/fatal flaws
Infocom's Spellbreaker. There's a puzzle early on where you have to get past an ogre to get a scroll and gold box in the next room. There's a time-stop spell, and if you use it, the ogre is frozen, but so are the scroll and gold box, so you can't take them. In a few turns the spell wears off and the ogre comes back and kills you. This is supposed to happen, because the correct solution is to bring in a weed that makes him have a sneezing fit. BUT. There's another spell, called blorple, that you use to travel from location to location by casting it on various magic cubes in the game. If you cast it on a non-cube object, though, you go to a nondescript room. So... After casting the time-stop spell, you can use blorple on some object you're carrying, wait in the non-descript room until after the spell wears off, leave, it takes you back to where you were before, the scroll and gold box are unfrozen, and the ogre doesn't come after you! This damn bug had me stuck for MONTHS on this game, because you can only use the time-stop spell once, and I was using it in the wrong place! I still count Spellbreaker as a game I finished without any help, becuase I would have if it weren't for the bug. B-) - Original Message - From: Dan Chisarick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 8:13 AM Subject: [SWCollect] Vintage games w/fatal flaws Just wondering if anyone has any good stories of an older game they were playing that was somehow unbeatable due to a coding flaw, or just downright not fun for design reasons. I've been looking for an original 'Doriath' for years. I stumbled on this site, and my free time being what it is these days, say what the hell and just read the walkthrough. The game is unbeatable! That's not in the good sense: http://members.shaw.ca/Doriath/Walkthru.htm If you read the walkthrough and then follow the links at the bottom, you never get an acknowledgment from the game that you've won. There's a link to an interview w/the developers that explains you've essentially won once you make it to a certain room. Its sad to see a game never being polished because of artificial deadlines (like that never happens anymore) or even more frighteningly, running out of memory/disk space. Second to this are games that take hours to beat, give you one life, have no save feature, and you can put the game in an unwinable state and not realize it. Console games (at least earlier ones) seem particular guilty of such offenses. Thrown in certain Mindscape games (Spell of Destruction and Fairlight I think fell into this hole, at least partially). Third would have to be needless player frustration: Jumping puzzles, tedious movement puzzles (Sierra 3D games are notorious for this), and I'd have to throw in my entering the words of Truth, Love and Courage in the wrong order after spending 2.5 hours getting to the bottom of a certain 8-level dungeon to get the Codex of Infinite Wisdom just to be kicked back to the surface. Augh! (Its corveramo , no veramocor :) Last, and somewhat humorously, ever type in a game in Basic or assembly from a magazine, and it didn't work? Seems the feature title ALWAYS had some little typo in it that would require you to buy next month's issue to resolve? :) With DVD-ROM titles, cheat codes, strategy guides, and every game either being Real Time Strategy or 3D shooter, endings are very well defined :) How else would they sell level add-on packs? -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Repairing floppies (long)
C.E. Forman wrote: It is a little depressing to me personally that adventure, strategy, and wargaming genres are the only genres that seem to be collectable. I guess it's just traditional supply and demand... I dunno, I've seen quite a few early Apple II arcade games fetch huge bids. Star Blazer by Tony Suzuki topped $120 once. I should have clarified IBM PC action games. If anyone has ever heard of an older IBM PC non-adventure non-strategy game ever fetching more than $30 I would love to hear about it. -- Jim Leonard ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) World's largest electronic gaming project:http://www.MobyGames.com/ A delicious slice of the demoscene:http://www.MindCandyDVD.com/ Various oldskool PC rants and ramblings: http://www.oldskool.org/ -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Repairing floppies (long)
On Fri, 5 Dec 2003, Jim Leonard wrote: [snip] I should have clarified IBM PC action games. If anyone has ever heard of an older IBM PC non-adventure non-strategy game ever fetching more than $30 I would love to hear about it. An IBM version of Microsoft Decathlon is easily worth more than $30. Then again, you said older, not oldest. :) -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Repairing floppies (long)
I should have clarified IBM PC action games. If anyone has ever heard of an older IBM PC non-adventure non-strategy game ever fetching more than $30 I would love to hear about it. An IBM version of Microsoft Decathlon is easily worth more than $30. That's Microsoft's ONLY action game of the 1980s. Name at least one more ;-) Flight Simulator? (Okay, technically not pure action, but definitely non-adventure, non-strategy.) -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Vintage games w/fatal flaws
Pedro Quaresma schrieb: OK let's see if my memory doesn't betray me (again!) It was Ultima 4, but veramocor was the word used to get into the final dungeon, not the word to be used in the end of it. In the end, the word infinity had to be used (after the principles and its virtues), but if you typed the wrong word you'd get kicked back to the surface. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. It's been quite some time since I played Ultima 4. I think that's pretty much correct. BTW, anyone remember The Fabulous Wanda? Must have been from 1983/84. You stranded on some planet and had to find this woman, who knew the answer to life, the universe and the rest. It was written in BASIC and unfinishable, if you didn't alter the listing yourself. Although I'm not sure if that was by intention or just bad programming. I have to admit, until I found that out I had fun with the game :-) Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] [Fwd: Re: 5.25 disks?]
Edward Franks schrieb: Gamasutra had an interesting article http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20011017/dodd_01.htm -- you may need to register on Gamasutra to read it -- on the developer's attempts to simply slowdown the cracking of Spyro: Year of the Dragon. Their goal was simply to try to keep pirates from cracking the game for the first few months of the game's sale life (when up to half the sales of the game occur). The idea that came across was that they realized that the crackers would eventually win, so all the developers could do is try to slow them down. It included allowing partial cracks to work for a while, so that if you didn't play the game for 10 to 12 hours you might think your crack worked. It is a bizarre world when developers spend so much time trying to make a game work correctly and then turn around and break their own game. I doubt that it made much of a difference. A good enough coder can quickly identify any subroutine depending on the protection. IMHO the best copy protection still is a neat box, a nice and sufficient manual and some props to go along. If all you get is a DVD case and a PDF manual on the CD, most people don't see enough physical evidence of the game's worth, compared to what is readily available on the net. Marco -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] [Fwd: Re: 5.25 disks?]
On Dec 5, 2003, at 5:58 PM, Marco Thorek wrote: [Snip] I doubt that it made much of a difference. A good enough coder can quickly identify any subroutine depending on the protection. From the article it apparently did. Enough that the dev team decided it was worth the effort then and in the future. IMHO the best copy protection still is a neat box, a nice and sufficient manual and some props to go along. If all you get is a DVD case and a PDF manual on the CD, most people don't see enough physical evidence of the game's worth, compared to what is readily available on the net. I pretty much agree with that. People have gotten used to the idea that cheaper is always better -- zero cost being the cheapest -- without understanding or giving a damn about the eventual long term consequences. But, I'll save the economics rant for another day. ;-) -- Edward Franks -- This message was sent to you because you are currently subscribed to the swcollect mailing list. To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of 'unsubscribe swcollect' Archives are available at: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Re: [SWCollect] Vintage games w/fatal flaws
Veramocor was the word of passage for the Codex chamber at the bottom of the Abyss. It's right before it asks you the virtue questions and infinity. I had the same problem with veramocor... I completely forgot the clues from the Lycaeum, Empath Abbey Serpent's Hold. I think it gives you three guesses and then kicks you out of the Abyss. That was evil... Steve - Original Message - From: Pedro Quaresma To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 2:25 AM Subject: Re: [SWCollect] Vintage games w/fatal flaws Jim Leonard wrote: I'd have to throw in my entering the words of "Truth, Love and Courage" in the wrong order after spending 2.5 hours getting to the bottom of a certain 8-level dungeon to get the Codex of Infinite Wisdom just to be kicked back to the surface. Augh! (Its "corveramo" , no "veramocor" :)Which Ultima game was that?OK let's see if my memory doesn't betray me (again!) It was Ultima 4, but "veramocor" was the word used to get into the final dungeon, not the word to be used in the end of it. In the end, the word "infinity" had to be used (after the principles and its virtues), but if you typed the wrong word you'd get kicked back to the surface. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. It's been quite some time since I played Ultima 4.--Pedro R. QuaresmaSalvador Caetano IMVTDiv. Sistemas de Informação / Systems and Information DivisionAdministração e Desenvolvimento Lotus Notes / Lotus Notes Administration and Development[EMAIL PROTECTED] // +351 22 7867000 (ext. 3492)Toyota Prius '01, Verdi Steel, 37K km.ToyotaShopping - A sua Loja Toyota Onlinehttp://www.toyota.pt
