Re: t-and-f: MJ's splits in his 43.18 WR (was Negative splits in 440)

Yep, that 200m was Beamonesque. That was MJ with nothing to save it for and positively at the top of his game - Ed Parrot - Original Message - From: Jimson Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:51 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: MJ's splits in his 43.18

Re: t-and-f: Negative splits in 4400?

Actually, it is not all that common (it happens, but not in a lot of cases) to see world records set with anything other than a very slight negative split even in a distance race. As for the 400, I have wondered myself whether there is a physiological reason to go out fast, because one might

Re: t-and-f: Negative splits in 4400?

Actually, it is not all that common (it happens, but not in a lot of cases) to see world records set with anything other than a very slight negative split even in a distance race. I meant to say anything more than a slightly negative split, not anything other than :) - Ed

Re: Re: t-and-f: Negative splits in 4400?

Actually, I'd be shocked if his last 200 WAS faster for his record. More than shocked - shaken to the core :) - Ed - Original Message - From: Andrew Lilly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: edndana [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Athletics [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 5:08 PM Subject: Re: Re: t

Re: t-and-f: Radcliffe rival left out by Japanese

Yeah, but read what constitutes fading - second place at a major marathon. Personally, I have always been flabbergasted when a federation says they will be picking on the results of four races and that is their sole criteria. It's like an open invitation to overrace. Let's say that a different

Re: t-and-f: Endurance Athletes Are Taking Up Snowshoe Racing to Stay Fit Year-Round

I was thinking the same thing :) - Ed - Original Message - From: Martin J. Dixon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 8:26 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Endurance Athletes Are Taking Up Snowshoe Racing to Stay Fit Year-Round Don't know how people ever used

Re: t-and-f: Re: multiple postings

Thanks error handler. I was about to get in touch with the inner postal worker in me. Close call, whew! malmo Why do I think that getting in touch with your inner postal worker would not have required massive effort :) - Ed Parrot

Re: t-and-f: Robinson re steroids

Actually, those are the five stages of grief developed by Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, M.D. Not really an appropriate analogy for drugs unless you already assume the outcome will be accepting that athletes are going to do drugs and we can't catch them. - Ed - Original Message - From: Randy

t-and-f: Trials resuts - top 5

1.Culpepper 2:11:41 2.Meb 2:11:46 3.Browne 2:12:02 4.Trent Briney 2:12:36 5.Clint Verran

Re: t-and-f: Chambers warned of liver damage

Wada is also set to challenge the International Association of Athletics Federations if it does not ban Chambers's training partner Kelli White for two years after she tested positive for modafinil. She faces being stripped of the gold medals she won in the 100m and 200m at the world

Re: t-and-f: Distance and Sprint Dominance

I don't particuarly agree with the ol' adage, but I don't think that's exactly what it is saying. The gist of the argument is that distance runners can overcome a lack of talent through hard work, whereas sprinters either have it or they don't. That doesn't mean a sprinter with immense

Re: t-and-f: Distance and Sprint Dominance

. The gist of the argument is... Very first thing I said. If it's unclear to anyone that I was clarifying the argument, not stating my own position, then I suggest you enroll in remedial preschool classes. --- edndana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which is a load of crap. --- Steve Shea [EMAIL

Re: t-and-f: NYTimes.com Article: Results of Steroid Testing Spur Baseball to Set Tougher Rules

Who does the MLB testing? USADA? Not to suggest any great conspiracy, but history has certainly shown that the entity doing the testing can have an impact on the outcome. - Ed - Original Message - From: Michael Bartolina [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 14,

Re: Re: t-and-f: NYTimes.com Article: Results of Steroid Testing Spur Baseball to Set Tougher Rules

14, 2003 12:34 PM Subject: Re: Re: t-and-f: NYTimes.com Article: Results of Steroid Testing Spur Baseball to Set Tougher Rules How has history shown that the entity doing the testing can have an impact on the outcome.? malmo From: edndana [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2003/11/14 Fri AM 11:13

Re: t-and-f: LaSalle Bank Chicago Marathon Olympic Payout

You assert that the men and women each set their own qualifying standards. Do they? Are the actual aspirants polled? Yes - both the women's and men's committees have sent out questionnaires to the athletes on several occasions. I don't know their criteria - certainly anyone under the

t-and-f: Re: walking issue

Walking has the ability to implement strict technical standards, but it refuses to do so. Oh it does? Could you name these standards? The so-called devices that measure whether someone has left the ground do not work in practical tests. Video is certainly not an option - it would make things

Re: t-and-f: LaSalle Bank Chicago Marathon Olympic Payout

Different philosophies between the men's committee and women's committee. Believe you me the question comes up and the athlete reps largely support the standards as they are. So, get the athletes who are upset to contact the LDR committee in numbers and I'm sure it would change. Speaking as a

Re: t-and-f: Washington Post - another name

. malmo - -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of edndana Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 11:29 AM To: Athletics Subject: t-and-f: Washington Post - another name We have a third name. I'll tell you, USADA are doing a great job

Re: t-and-f: Who's got the real juice?

with it. Football is more popular than it was 40 years ago and it ain't because the athletes in that sport are clean. It has more to do with betting lines than anything else. Steve S. - Original Message - From: edndana [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Athletics [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday

Re: t-and-f: more or less cheating

Okay I am a cynic, but does anyone else think that the current scandal will lead to MORE cheating, not less. Doesn't this raise the bar to the level where those who use drugs will want a designer steroid. Didn't every unethical chemist just get an amazing amount of free publicity? Wouldn't

Re: t-and-f: USATF announces Zero Tolerance anti-doping plan

Excellent point Wayne. Maybe the specifics will involve having to prove the coach knew. - Ed Parrot - Original Message - From: Wayne T. Armbrust [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 2:02 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: USATF announces Zero Tolerance

Re: t-and-f: USATF announces Zero Tolerance anti-doping plan

Good point. Coaches would just not become members of USATF. Now maybe they would be denied coaching credentials at USATF and IAAF championships, but that doesn't mean they couldn't sit in the stands. - Ed Parrot - Original Message - From: malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Wayne T. Armbrust'

Re: t-and-f: Chambers positive

Not that i'm saying this is the case, but it just got me wondering how so many high profile athletes could get caught up in something illegal that they all could potentially get caught doing. I wouldn't wonder, the answer is simple. For a decade, they couldn't test for EPO. Then, they come

Re: t-and-f: Fire Masback now!

- that USATF and Craig have simply failed to address problems that needed addressing and thus failed as an NGB. Certainly it would not be an open and shut court case. - Ed Parrot - Original Message - From: malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'edndana' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 'Athletics' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent

Re: t-and-f: rutto

As for your blanket suspicions, again they simply undermine interest in the sport. Fans are not interested in a sport where it's assumed that many athletes are breaking the rules. If it's factually known that the majority of athletes are using drugs and the sport decides to accept that as

Re: t-and-f: How big?

type. That sorta throws all the averages out the window, unless what you're interested in is what it takes to finish back in the pack. Dan --- edndana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I tend to think you're both right - lighter 10K guys can and do move up, but the average numbers will continue

Re: t-and-f: How big?

In the marathon you must have muscles and connective tissue strong enough to handle the pounding. Larger muscles and connective tissue will be stronger. Makes sense - and ultrarunners are bigger still, although the sample size for ultrarunners is so small that I don't think we can make many

Re: t-and-f: How big?

I tend to think you're both right - lighter 10K guys can and do move up, but the average numbers will continue to be heavier for the marathoners because on average there is a little more muscle resistance required. Now here's an interesting question - at what point between 10K and marathon would

Re: t-and-f: How big?

Somewhat surprising is the ranges of tallest/heaviest to shorest/lightest in the 5K and marathon - really big ranges in weight especially. I think it's also notable that the average weight increases by 13 pounds from the 10k to the marathon, suggesting that the extra weight might be necessary for

t-and-f: who would use drugs?

So those who say that most are cheating must be telling the rest of us that the cheaters are not very intelligent in that they knowingly use drugs that they know will cause them great bodily harm and premature death just to be World Class and/or Win! I prefer to think that the majority of

Re: t-and-f: who would use drugs?

What Martin is saying is exactly what I remember. The same study was also done with a group of potential 1992 Olympians was actually on my final exam in grad school in 1992. I am trying to remember if maybe it was in medecine and science in sport and exercise or where we got it from. - Ed

Re: t-and-f: 'soft' marathon record

Our friend Jack Daniels associates a 2:04:57 marathon with a 59:38 half, 27:07, 10 km, 13:01 5km for velocity at max so the good Doctor may agree with Marty. Tom Not sure if the above comparisons take into account a road vs. track surface, but the difference is still obviously substantial.

Re: t-and-f: 'soft' marathon record

Curiousanyone ever think that maybe the marathon record has always been behind the prediction equations? What does that say? Alan Clayton's 1969 Antwerp was equivalent to around 27:37 and 13:12 according to Purdy-Gardner. Of course, the extent to which they used the world records of the

Re: t-and-f: 'soft' marathon record, other Berlin stuff

I've calculated a pace-slowdown factor using Solver in Excel by minimizing the differences in the predicted equivalent 10k performance for distances ranging from the 1500 to marathon. This is similar to what Jack Daniels and others have calculated. The underlying presumption is that all of

t-and-f: Perceptions

The whole drug issue is still one which is based primarily on emotion and moral bases ... Data is thrown out in an attempt to support these assumptions ... But as you yourself lhave repeated stated these arguments are based on perceptions ... In most professions perceptions are hardly enough

Re: t-and-f: forwarded message (drugs, difference in philosophy, etc.)

But let me repeat something that is being regularly ignored or overlooked by the anti-drug crowd. This isn't about being pro-drugs. Not by any stretch. It's about accepting the cold hard fact that drugs CANNOT be eliminted from track and field and that continuing down this road will only

Re: t-and-f: forwarded message (drugs, difference in philosophy, etc.)

Seems we can't get past the right or wrong thing. Using the same thinking to get us out of the hole that put us there in the first place is a sure recipe for failure. I can't begin to respond to all of Dan's observations - most of them are situations where one can only see the logic in the

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

And certainly people who do consume that much have potential health effects. What, like yellow teeth and shaky hands? And higher blood pressure. And higher heart rate. And degradation of heart tissue. And higher stress hormone levels (like adrenaline). And higher risk of breast cancer

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

VERY few average people consume enough caffeine to reach the banned level on a regular basis. And certainly people who do consume that much have potential health effects. And doctors using steriods are aware of the potential side effects - it's a question of whether the risks of taking outweigh

Re: t-and-f: major philosphy difference for the sport

Probably not, but if it were shown to be safe, would we be any worse off than we are now? Just throwing ideas out there. Some may work, some may not, but we've already got a system that's as close to a disaster as possible. Hard not to improve on it with wholesale changes. You have to

Re: t-and-f: Get rid of the IAAF

Can this be done? What would need to be done? I know there are a ton of things to get that in place, but why not start now? I have to speculate that the only way the IOC would even consider it would be for literally a mass boycott of an Olympic Games by track field athletes. I think the

Re: t-and-f: Get rid of the IAAF

I tend to agree. I'd be just as happy to see the reaction time limit removed and an NCAA-style no false start rule. That would really force those who are truly guessing to take the ultimate risk, while removing the arbitrariness. Because under the old rules, there weren't big penalties for

Re: t-and-f: Now the spotlight is on Kelli White

Martin - First, USATF isn't going to have the decision on her situation - she tested positive at an IAAF event. Even at a U.S. event, USATF would not be the ones ruling, it would be USADA. So, let's save the sarcastic references for a time when they are actually relevent. Second, the

Re: t-and-f: Now the spotlight is on Kelli White

off on a technicality. edndana wrote: Martin - First, USATF isn't going to have the decision on her situation - she tested positive at an IAAF event. Even at a U.S. event, USATF would not be the ones ruling, it would be USADA. So, let's save the sarcastic references for a time

t-and-f: TV coverage

Ooh! Can't decided which event - 50k walk/wheelchair - I would more NOT want to watch! That's right, I have some paint drying and grass growing that should provide some excitement ;] I'll vote for the high jump and the discus as the events I would least want to watch myself, but that's

t-and-f: Worlds on TV - non PC

OK, I have resisted commenting on the quality of the announcing - there has been some good and some bad and there's really no point in castigating people for inaccuracies. But. . . close to 10:00 of coverage of the two wheelchair races and less than 1:00 of the 50 km race walk? Or did I miss

Re: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000

] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of edndana Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 5:22 PM To: Athletics Subject: Re: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000 Joe - Well. ..you and I are arguing over semantics, and I don't think our argument has anything to do with whatever problem there is. Five years

t-and-f: Seiko Timing

Here's an article someone sent me (not sure what paper) on the Seiko Timing for the World Swimming champs - they provide timing for a myriad of other things, including the World Champs for TF. I've heard a couple rumors about problems with the timinng - anyone know any more? - Ed Parrot July

Re: t-and-f: The unknown positive?

OK, if USATF can't comment, then who the hell even confirmed it for the article? If this is the name that we've all been wondering about (OK, some of us knew - not me), how did it come out now? And our buddy Dick Pound hopped right on the bandwagon, but wasn't this athlete cleared, and didn't

Re: t-and-f: Drummond et al.

Ok then, where's the overwhelming coverage of the women's 100m final? For the Afghani situation to not hurt the sport, I posit that it has to actually increase the coverage devoted to the true world class competitors. If it takes away from that coverage or even does not affect it, then at

Re: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000

. From: malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'edndana' [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:18:03 -0400 I'm basing my wager on this crowd: My guess is that Culpepper is the only one who

Re: t-and-f: Drummond DQ

First, I agree with RT's interpretation of the way the rule is worded as regards not being allowed to jump if someone goes before you. I do not think this is necessarily a good idea, because in theory an entire Olympic final would have to be DQ'd if someone bolted and everyone else reacted. But.

Re: t-and-f: DQ Farce in Paris Men's 100

If Jon is right that an athlete can run under protest (and I'm not familiar with that rule one way or the other), then it sure sounds like he has a point. I must confess that on one or two occasions I have disrupted a meet when the officials on the track made a blatently wrong decision. It is

t-and-f: Re: Pro track league

I don't have a problem including women in theory - in fact, I suppose we could consider going with only women rather than men. But I'm not convinced that the type of format I'm envisioning would be streamlined enough with both genders. And more importantly, I would not expect to get a pro track

Re: t-and-f: Drummond et al.

Speaking of farce, in one heat of the womens' 100, there was a competitor from Afghanistan. Glad as I am to see women (or even men) from that country now able to compete, she ran over 18 seconds, which I find hard to believe qualifies as elite level even in Afghanistan. By all means, I

Re: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000

Perhaps our 10k guys (and 5k guys) go about training too much like they would for a marathon and don't focus enough on speed. Geb constantly talks about improving his speed. How many of our 10k guys can run 24.5 flat out let alone at the end of a 10k? Jeez, I'm sure at least 8 of our top 10

Re: Re: t-and-f: DQ Farce in Paris Men's 100

Drummond was not 'cheated'. He broke the rules as set forth for the competition. If he didn't want to compete under those rules, there was nothing to 'force' him to fly to Paris. He may not have been cheated, but he has the right to expect the competition to be conducted in a professional

Re: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000

wasn't doing 100+ miles per week of distance training like I should have been. - Ed Parrot - Original Message - From: malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'edndana' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 3:10 PM Subject: RE: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000 I'd be a big seller

Re: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000

200m to 2-mile ratio. - Ed Parrot - Original Message - From: malmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'edndana' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 5:18 PM Subject: RE: t-and-f: 12:57 last 5000 I'm basing my wager on this crowd: My guess is that Culpepper

Re: t-and-f: What is a professional sport

Interesting comments by Ed Grant. I'll add a couple of additional points: 1.While the golden age of track field (presumably you mean sometime between 1950 and 1975) may have been great for fans (and I have no idea since it wasn't around), it was terrible for the athletes. Both then and now,

Re: t-and-f: Track and Field on television

I agree witha lmost everything that Keith pointed out, except the following: Track and Field has very high participatory numbers so I would venture to say that there is a ready made market which would be receptive and supportive of broadcasts in the proper format which is simply SHOW THE MEET!

t-and-f: TItle IX

RT - I agree with everything you've said, but I'll tell you what the main counter-argument to your last question is: The majority of basketball and football programs are NOT revenue producing, they are just called revenue producing. Most of the track programs we have lost are from schools

Re: t-and-f: Timing yourself in an indoor 5,000M?

Amen to that. I won't mention any names, but there's a reasonably quick miler here in California (sub-4:10) who has been known to take his own splits every 100m in a 1500. This is the same guy whom I have heard once stopped abruptly in the middle of the last turn because he only wanted to get in

Re: t-and-f: Serious WMA violations of WMA rules

I think that Buck's reaction is the same one that many might have. It strikes me that the big problem with the way the article was presented was that it tried to cover too much without defining the specific issues well. For instance, one issue is how the WMA feels about non-sanctioned events. I

Re: t-and-f: NCAA Performances

Winning both events is one thing, but to do so with a 28:20 10,000m time followed by an 8:26 steeple really is one of the best distance doubles that I can remember. No question, and he simply dominated the last 2 laps of the Steeple. Tiffany McWilliam's 4:06 had to be amazing to watch. She

t-and-f: Re: [racewalking] Chief Judge: Mr. Blackwell?

You should see the other track field events - in some states where the officials are very strict, multiple people are dq'd at every big meet for jewelry. The mentality of the national high school federation and many local officials on this is disgraceful - a bunch of fat old men who are control

Re: t-and-f: Sandrock: Wetmore no fan of NCAA meet setup

Great performances are no longer rewarded, said Wetmore. Head-to-head competition does not mean we will have the best people there (at NCAAs). Just as head to head competition at the Olympic Trials does not mean we will have the best people at the Olympics. - Ed Parrot