RE: t-and-f: rivals
Correction: the Rivals Network has gone belly up. The individual publishers may or may not go under. The situation varies among the 600 independent publishers who contracted with Rivals to host their sites. Many of them, like DyeStat, were publishing before Rivals and are publishing after Rivals with very little disruption. Only those who depended totally on Rivals are affected badly. John Dye [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] DyeStat - www.dyestat.com http://www.dyestat.com Internet home of high school track field cc -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Doug Lynch Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 8:06 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: rivals so the rivals websites are totally going belly up? Doug Lynch www.Lynxphotos.com
Re: t-and-f: Why Kalenjins Win the Boston Marathon
Randall--it is what I know. They won the Olympic gold medal, which was merely a slip of keyboard. Either way, the point is made: your "thesis" is pure speculation and conflicts with all the evidence. Mine is congruent with all the evidence. On 4/13/01 3:10 AM, "Randall Northam" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 13/4/01 1:17 AM, Jon Entine at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BOTH THE Nigerians and Cameroonians won the world cup. As I said - stick to what you know. Both the Nigerians and Cameroons reached the world cup finals, No African country has won it. Eygpt - East Africa - has been in the finals three times, Nigeria four. Randall Northam -- Jon Entine RuffRun 6178 Grey Rock Rd. Agoura Hills, CA 91301 (818) 991-9803 [FAX] 991-9804 http://www.jonentine.com
t-and-f: Nigerian soccer victory
Randall may be confused by the Nigerian national soccer team's Olympic victory in Athens, Georgia in 1996. The Super Eagles beat Argentina 3-2 to win the Olympic gold medal. As most association football fans will know, many of the better soccer nations don't even participate in the Olympic soccer tournament. Quite a feat to earn the Olympic title, but not a World Cup win. Eamonn Condon WWW.RunnersGoal.com - Original Message - From: "Randall Northam" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Jon Entine" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: "posting" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 3:10 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why Kalenjins Win the Boston Marathon on 13/4/01 1:17 AM, Jon Entine at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BOTH THE Nigerians and Cameroonians won the world cup. As I said - stick to what you know. Both the Nigerians and Cameroons reached the world cup finals, No African country has won it. Eygpt - East Africa - has been in the finals three times, Nigeria four. Randall Northam
t-and-f: Re: Nigerian soccer victory
And now I'm confusing Randall and Jon. Oops. Eamonn - Original Message - From: "Eamonn Condon" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Track Field" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 7:57 AM Subject: Nigerian soccer victory Randall may be confused by the Nigerian national soccer team's Olympic victory in Athens, Georgia in 1996. The Super Eagles beat Argentina 3-2 to win the Olympic gold medal. As most association football fans will know, many of the better soccer nations don't even participate in the Olympic soccer tournament. Quite a feat to earn the Olympic title, but not a World Cup win. Eamonn Condon WWW.RunnersGoal.com - Original Message - From: "Randall Northam" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Jon Entine" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: "posting" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 3:10 AM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Why Kalenjins Win the Boston Marathon on 13/4/01 1:17 AM, Jon Entine at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BOTH THE Nigerians and Cameroonians won the world cup. As I said - stick to what you know. Both the Nigerians and Cameroons reached the world cup finals, No African country has won it. Eygpt - East Africa - has been in the finals three times, Nigeria four. Randall Northam
Re: t-and-f: Another View on NCAA Regionals
There is absolutely NO WAY that a team will go to the regional with a one week rest after a conference meet. That would be absurd. The meet to have to get the kids qualified for the Big Dance? Not a chance. And, regarding the SC-UCLA dual, part of the problem is due to the fact that SC ends school so early, their finals are normally in the later part of April which puts additional pressure on everything. Main reason they have never appeared at the Cal-Nevada meet, traditionally held on the last weekend of April. This meet, if it is to continue, will now also have to move. The whole thing will be a mess. Scott Davis
t-and-f: Old High Schoolers...
Dear Listers, I just read an article in the Star Ledger (NJ) pertaining to the allowance of a HS athlete to compete at the Penn Relays at the age of 20. I'm aware that this particular athlete had incredible circumstances that contributed to his being that age and not out of HS, but I feel that a 20 year-old should not be allowed to compete with 18 and under athletes. I do feel that there is a pure physical advantage in this situation. I was also checking out the results of the Jamaican HS Championships and they have HS athletes with 1981 and 1982 dates of birth. Alot of these athletes compete at and dominate the Penn Relays every year. Is this fair the regular HS age athletes? Larry A. Morgan, Sr. Elizabeth Heat TC
t-and-f: Totalsports
I just heard that the deal between Quokka and zuniversity.com has fallen through. As a result, Totalsports is shutting down. A whole bunch of colleges are scrambling to relocate their web sites. With rivals.com and others gone, the failure of to make money on the web is a classic case of art imitating life. When the dust settles, those who sprinted at the start will have died, and the race will go to the dyestat.com's and TrackMeets.com's of the world who are in it for the love of the sport. Gotta go run... Kamal. DR KAMAL JABBOUR - Engineer, Educator, Runner, WriterO o 2-222 Center for Science and Technology /|\/ |\ Syracuse University, Syracuse NY 13244-4100 | | Phone 315-443-3000, Fax 315-443-2583 __/ \ \/ \ http://running.syr.edu/jabbour.html\ \
Re: t-and-f: MJs farewell tour
In a message dated Thu, 12 Apr 2001 6:55:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Brian McGuire" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gary Radnich is usually a great interviewer with a good rapport with his subjects. It sounds like he met his match in MJ, who it sounds like gave Radnich all the S**T he deserved. Radnich is a great interviewer with a good rapport with. baseball, football and basketball players. Yesterday he aliented track fans, this morning he's raising the hackles of hockey fans. He makes up for his lack of knowledge by turning from a gentleman to a boor. gh
Re: t-and-f: Why Kalenjins Win the Boston Marathon
Anyone who follows soccer knows that Olympic games to World cup is like Goodwill Games to Olympics in Athletics. A brief look at the current FIFA ranking shows that the top two african countries are South Africa (22nd) and Morocco (30th) - both are powerhouses as far as distance running is concerned. So much for not having the "body type" to compete in distance events and soccer. How did we go from running to chess to soccer? :) Oleg. Randall--it is what I know. They won the Olympic gold medal, which was merely a slip of keyboard. Either way, the point is made: your "thesis" is pure speculation and conflicts with all the evidence. Mine is congruent with all the evidence. On 4/13/01 3:10 AM, "Randall Northam" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 13/4/01 1:17 AM, Jon Entine at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BOTH THE Nigerians and Cameroonians won the world cup. As I said - stick to what you know. Both the Nigerians and Cameroons reached the world cup finals, No African country has won it. Eygpt - East Africa - has been in the finals three times, Nigeria four. Randall Northam -- Jon Entine RuffRun 6178 Grey Rock Rd. Agoura Hills, CA 91301 (818) 991-9803 [FAX] 991-9804 http://www.jonentine.com
Re: t-and-f: Re: Scholarships
In a message dated Thu, 12 Apr 2001 9:43:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually, as Title IX became more of an issue, scholarships on one side withered away, while on the other the pot of gold came raining down. That is why the women have much better competitions these days Yeah, let's go back to the first 60-odd years of the NCAA where women not only didn't get any scholarships, they were in general also denied access to university athletic facilities. The pendulum may have (well, clearly has) swung a bit too far to the women's side at this point, but viewed as a whole, the NCAA is far from parity. Isn't it fun being treated like a second-class citizen? gh
Re: t-and-f: Why Kalenjins Win the Boston Marathon
on 13/4/01 3:26 PM, Jon Entine at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Randall--it is what I know. They won the Olympic gold medal, which was merely a slip of keyboard. Either way, the point is made: your "thesis" is pure speculation and conflicts with all the evidence. Mine is congruent with all the evidence. It is basic errors like this that make me wonder how much of the rest of what John Entine says is correct. The Olympic football tournament is not nearly as prestigious as the World Cup. It is a junior tournament for players under 23 years of age, with three overage players in each squad. The big European countries don't send full squads because their players are on league duty. Indeed there is no British team in the tournament Granted Nigerians are better at football than Kenyans, they are a little bit better than the Egyptians and Tunisians and Europe has plundered their players. The Nigerians are better than the South Africans as well but football is an even bigger deal in South Africa. There are many factors that stop Kenyans from being good at football. I'm not a physiologist but their body "types" look good for footballers to me. Apart from eating and drinking, the two things I know about are athletics and football and I have seen so many basic errors of fact in John Entine's posts that I have to question the rest of his scholarship. Randall Northam
Re: t-and-f: Why Kalenjins Win the Boston Marathon
Randall: Rather than QUESTIONING my scholarship why don't you actually take the book out of the library and CRITIQUE it. Otherwise you will continue to make statements that are not supported by the facts, such as that Kenyans have a great body type for soccer, a fact that you are now apparently withdrawing. My minor factual error slipping World Cup for Olympic gold medal does in NO way effect the issue or substantive argument. You are creating a straw men. If you read the book and find errors, I would be happy to correct them. If you find the reasoning fallacious, go at it: I'll revise the book and eat humble pie. That's what discourse is all about, not questioning that WHICH YOU HAVE NOT READ. On 4/13/01 8:48 AM, "Randall Northam" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 13/4/01 3:26 PM, Jon Entine at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Randall--it is what I know. They won the Olympic gold medal, which was merely a slip of keyboard. Either way, the point is made: your "thesis" is pure speculation and conflicts with all the evidence. Mine is congruent with all the evidence. It is basic errors like this that make me wonder how much of the rest of what John Entine says is correct. The Olympic football tournament is not nearly as prestigious as the World Cup. It is a junior tournament for players under 23 years of age, with three overage players in each squad. The big European countries don't send full squads because their players are on league duty. Indeed there is no British team in the tournament Granted Nigerians are better at football than Kenyans, they are a little bit better than the Egyptians and Tunisians and Europe has plundered their players. The Nigerians are better than the South Africans as well but football is an even bigger deal in South Africa. There are many factors that stop Kenyans from being good at football. I'm not a physiologist but their body "types" look good for footballers to me. Apart from eating and drinking, the two things I know about are athletics and football and I have seen so many basic errors of fact in John Entine's posts that I have to question the rest of his scholarship. Randall Northam -- Jon Entine RuffRun 6178 Grey Rock Rd. Agoura Hills, CA 91301 (818) 991-9803 [FAX] 991-9804 http://www.jonentine.com
Re: t-and-f: Why Kalenjins Win the Boston Marathon
Randall: Rather than QUESTIONING my scholarship why don't you actually take the book out of the library and CRITIQUE it. Otherwise you will continue to make statements that are not supported by the facts, such as that Kenyans have a great body type for soccer, a fact that you are now apparently withdrawing. My minor factual error slipping World Cup for Olympic gold medal does in NO way effect the issue or substantive argument. You are creating a straw men. If you read the book and find errors, I would be happy to correct them. If you find the reasoning fallacious, go at it: I'll revise the book and eat humble pie. That's what discourse is all about, not questioning that WHICH YOU HAVE NOT READ. On 4/13/01 8:48 AM, "Randall Northam" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 13/4/01 3:26 PM, Jon Entine at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Randall--it is what I know. They won the Olympic gold medal, which was merely a slip of keyboard. Either way, the point is made: your "thesis" is pure speculation and conflicts with all the evidence. Mine is congruent with all the evidence. It is basic errors like this that make me wonder how much of the rest of what John Entine says is correct. The Olympic football tournament is not nearly as prestigious as the World Cup. It is a junior tournament for players under 23 years of age, with three overage players in each squad. The big European countries don't send full squads because their players are on league duty. Indeed there is no British team in the tournament Granted Nigerians are better at football than Kenyans, they are a little bit better than the Egyptians and Tunisians and Europe has plundered their players. The Nigerians are better than the South Africans as well but football is an even bigger deal in South Africa. There are many factors that stop Kenyans from being good at football. I'm not a physiologist but their body "types" look good for footballers to me. Apart from eating and drinking, the two things I know about are athletics and football and I have seen so many basic errors of fact in John Entine's posts that I have to question the rest of his scholarship. Randall Northam -- Jon Entine RuffRun 6178 Grey Rock Rd. Agoura Hills, CA 91301 (818) 991-9803 [FAX] 991-9804 http://www.jonentine.com
t-and-f: Mad Conference Disease
In posts I've received both on and off the list, there has been a steady flow of "the sky is falling" talk regards what Regionals are going to do to conference meets. Other than all the apparently uninformed spongiform babbling, does anybody actually have any FACTS on this subject, or does Henny Penny rule? Instead of letting the tourists handle the blow-the-ballast button on this submarine, how about we hear some facts from the crew first? I'll stop now before my metaphoric overload over-ride switch kicks in. gh.
t-and-f: Online Coverage
I don't believe this site was mentioned, but www.iwon.com has decent coverage of track and field. Go to sports and choose "Track Field" from the dropdown box on the right-hand side. It looks like they pull their track articles from the AP wire... There's an article there right now about Tommy Smith selling his Olympic gold medal and other mementos. -- Brian Kavanaugh Lotus/Domino R5 CLP, Development Multi-Option Systems, Inc. 11920 Burt Street, Suite 100 Omaha, NE 68154-1598 (402) 431-8000 / (800) 551-MOSI [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
Re: t-and-f: Re: t-and-f-digest V1 #3543
Testing at birth wouldn't tell you much since your growth is to a large degree genetically programmed. It would have to be after the last growth spurt. Well, then there would be no good way to test for genetic lung capacity because after birth you will improve your lung capacity by your activity (running to and from school, tending to the flock). It could be that a certain group of people turn out to be great runners because the walk and run a lot as children. Take a look at US history over the past 50 years. We have turned more and more away from our rural roots. Our children sit around, watch TV and get fat. That is why we have the highest child obesity rate in the worldwe are lazy as a whole. That was not true 50 years ago. Alan _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
t-and-f: About the genetics of lung capacity
That's just not true Alan. We can't test for the specific gene frequencies in 99 percent of the phenotypic characteristics that are rooted in the genome, even such common things as the ability to have five fingers. Yet, scientists can and have tested for the genetics of lung capacity in animals and found there is a very significant (more than 70 percent I believe the tests show) of a genetic component. They have also done this through twin studies. Then applied to humans, they have found how "plastic" human lung capacity is or is not. It's not very plastic -- it only has a circumscribed response to conditioning. I believe you are confusing apples and oranges. We can definitively know something is genetically grounded in part without knowing the exact mechanisms for it. That's true for most scientific theories, from gravity to evolution to Copernican theory. Testing at birth wouldn't tell you much since your growth is to a large degree genetically programmed. It would have to be after the last growth spurt. Well, then there would be no good way to test for genetic lung capacity because after birth you will improve your lung capacity by your activity (running to and from school, tending to the flock). It could be that a certain group of people turn out to be great runners because the walk and run a lot as children. Take a look at US history over the past 50 years. We have turned more and more away from our rural roots. Our children sit around, watch TV and get fat. That is why we have the highest child obesity rate in the worldwe are lazy as a whole. That was not true 50 years ago. Alan -- Jon Entine RuffRun 6178 Grey Rock Rd. Agoura Hills, CA 91301 (818) 991-9803 [FAX] 991-9804 http://www.jonentine.com
Re: t-and-f: Online Coverage
There is a decent news seervice that you can add to your own site that has a good selections of stories. You can see how we added it easily to our site at http://www.espikes.com in the drop down menu after entering our shop. Doug Lynch www.Lynxphotos.com - Original Message - From: "Brian Kavanaugh" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Track and Field Listserv" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 10:05 AM Subject: t-and-f: Online Coverage I don't believe this site was mentioned, but www.iwon.com has decent coverage of track and field. Go to sports and choose "Track Field" from the dropdown box on the right-hand side. It looks like they pull their track articles from the AP wire... There's an article there right now about Tommy Smith selling his Olympic gold medal and other mementos. -- Brian Kavanaugh Lotus/Domino R5 CLP, Development Multi-Option Systems, Inc. 11920 Burt Street, Suite 100 Omaha, NE 68154-1598 (402) 431-8000 / (800) 551-MOSI [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1
Re: t-and-f: More on NCAA news
On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Ed Grant wrote: Not content with already reducing much of the college scene, indoors and out, to mark-chasing, they now insure that most conference meets will either be held much too early or will lose their top competitors in many events. I really don't think we need to worry about the conference meets. Coaches keep their jobs based on their conference performance not their NCAA performance (in all but a few cases). This alone should ensure that the conference meets stay competitive with the top people competing. Regards, Paul Talbot *** Paul Talbot Department of Geography/ Institute of Behavioral Science University of Colorado, Boulder Boulder CO 80309-0260 (303) 492-3248 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
t-and-f: when gambling becomes part of track
this from a friend in Oz: Obadele Thompson has arrived for the Stawell Gift in the Victorian country town of Stawell. The big controversy this year is that the Victorian Athletics League's chief sprints handicapper, Ricky Dunbar, has given his own son, Cam Dunbar, a favourable mark of 8.50m (in front of the scratch backmarker, Oba. The biggest mark only goes out to 9.00m). The race is held on grass over 120 metres. If Cam Dunbar wins, the mail is the punters will burn the grandstand down in protest. The Oztrack chatline has been full of this alleged scandal for weeks, but no one has filed a complaint to the Victorian Casino and Gaming Authority - I know coz I checked. gh
Re: t-and-f: More on NCAA news
Ed Grant wrote: The NCAA has already destroyed the rest of the college basketball season---except in that lone holdout, the Ivby League, by redycing the regular season league competition to nothing more than exhibition statyus (something like the NBA). And they have constructed a 64-team national tournament in which half the teams present have no business being there. To me and I suspect to millions of other Americans, the college basketball tournament is just about the most exciting sports event there is. I'll agree that it is notthe best method of discovering the best team, but it certainly is great from a fan's viewpoint. And I think that dozens of universities who sell out every game all season would disagree with you about the exhibition status of the regular season. As for regional qualifying, if done correctly, it has the potential to accomplish one thing which strikes me as more important than anything else - fostering competition as opposed to time trials. I do not know enough about the current proposal to know if it will really accomplish this but it is a noble goal. My suggestion for fixing some of the problems with NCAA track would have been a lot more radical - do away with the NCAA indoor meet and any other school-sponsored indoor meets after mid-February. This would give athletes more time to train and prepare properly for the meet that counts - the outdoor meet. Start the outdoor season no earlier than10 weeks before the NCAA meet. Only allow meets with 2-5 schools the first four weeks of the season. Designate the weekend before the regional meet as a "Last chance qualifier" weekend, with only invitationals allowed. Tinker with rules and qualifying procedures so that those first four weeks of meets have meaningful team competition. Of course this is radical, and yes it would destroy some of the oldest meets in the country. It's not realistic, it will never happen, and it is good to avoid destroying so much tradition. But it serves to illustrate that even the regional system being implemented now is a far cry from what would truly be needed to put the priorities of collegiate track and field back where they belong -team and individual competition throughout the entire season being the highest priority. - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: Why we question Chinese marks
Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:06:29 From: "Kurt Bray" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Conway says: So I don't th ink we should bandy about disparagingly regarding any record simply beause it is so much better than the individual did before ... Because most records end up being that way ... I don't disagree, but you seem to be forgetting that there was a lot more to the Chinese Explosion back in '93 than simply a few unexpectedly good performances that were never repeated. It was also the amazing depth of the performances by the Chinese women. Chinese women coming in second and third were also smashing the old WRs. Kurt Bray From: "Post, Marty" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Probably the most unbelievable part of Wang's 29:31.78 WR was not the time itself, but the way she ran it. She passed 7000m in 21:14.31, just slightly off pace to beat Kristiansen record. And then reeled off an 8:17.47 last 3000. Five seconds faster than the standing 3000m record which had been around for 9 years and was set by a woman many folks believe used performance-enhancing drugs. Both Kurt and Marty understate the situation: - Wang not only smashed the 10k record by breaking the 3k record at the end of the race, she still has the fastest 5k ever run of 14:26 in the last half of the race. She then came back to break the 3k WR TWICE more in the semis two days later and the final next day. She also broke the WR in the 1500 the final day while finishing second. She broke FIVE WRs in the space of FIVE days--an achievement NEVER remotely approached by any distance runner, and only Jesse Owens one-day wonder performance in 1935. And despite being the 10k WC, Wang never approached any of these marks in any other competition. - Other Chinese women went crazy. The 3k WR was set in the first semi, and then broken in the second semi! Several women went under the WR in those semis. Then I believe 5 more women went under the WR in the finals. I don't believe that more than 3 athletes have ever broken the WR in a single event. I don't have the resources available and some can check these, but I believe those events were the 1968 Olympics in the altitude-assisted triple jump and the 1974 Commonwealth Games 1500 where Bayi totally changed the face of world class miling strategies. (Someone might bring up the Sacramento Night of Speed in 1968, but the ambiguity of hand-timing makes this comparison doubtful). Several women broke the WR in the 1500 final as well, after scaring the WR in the semis. As for the other marks that Conway list, Garry rightly points out that other factors affected them. Also, ALL of those athletes were well known with long productive careers. Beamon's mark is the most akin to the Chinese mark, (which is why the term "Beamonesque" was coined) but he was only ONE athlete, not 14! In addition, the long jump has always been the event most likely to have discreet performance jumps and long-lived records. Look at Owen's record. I think the event is the hardest one for an athlete to judge their relative performance while they are actually doing the event which leads to greater inconsistency. Something was wrong in Beijing in 1993, but we really don't know what. RMc Richard McCann
Re: t-and-f: Why we question Chinese marks
Richard McCann wrote: Something was wrong in Beijing in 1993, but we really don't know what. RMc The marks were fast because they laid the new track over an existing track which had a curb. Screwed up everything. Joking. JL
Re: t-and-f: National class runner runs only 5 days a week?
Shouldn't the title of this post be "National class runner trains 135 miles a week at high intensity"? Don't miss the forest for the trees. Bill Bahnfleth At 12:19 PM 4/13/2001 -0700, Edward Nigma wrote: Noticed the following exchange in Runnersworl Online's recent interview with up and coming marathoner Todd Reeser. Reeser explains how he only runs 5 days each week, but puts in a ton of miles on those days... has anyone ever heard of this approach? Do you think the logic is sound? Wouldn't his body take less of a beating overall if he spread the running out over 7 days? Maybe some coaches and physiologists on the list have an opinion... Thanks, ED RWD: With each year, can you handle more in training? TR: Actually, I'm running less now than in the past. This year, I've only run five days a week, but on those days I'm running 26, 27, 28 miles, and both workouts each day are very, very hard. But on my days off, I devote the entire day to resting, and to my strengthening and stretching routine. I don't think it was my hard workouts that got me hurt; I think it was being a slave to going out and running on my easy days, and pushing the pace on those too hard. The best thing is to rest; I'm not going to gain anything from running on my easy days. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ _ William P. Bahnfleth, Ph.D., P.E. Associate Professor Department of Architectural Engineering The Pennsylvania State University 224 Engineering Unit A University Park, PA 16802-1416 USA voice: 814.863.2076 / fax: 814.863.4789 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.engr.psu.edu/ae/faculty/bahnfleth.htm _
t-and-f: Regionals
It seems to me that the simplest way to solve most of the problems involving regionals would be to set back the NCAA championship meet by a week or two -- where it used to be.
Re: t-and-f: More on NCAA news
In a message dated Fri, 13 Apr 2001 2:12:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Ed Grant" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The NCAA has already destroyed the rest of the college basketball season---except in that lone holdout, the Ivby League, by redycing the regular season league competition to nothing more than exhibition statyus (something like the NBA). And they have constructed a 64-team national tournament in which half the teams present have no business being there. Gee, and here I thought March Madness was a major part of the U.S. sporting scene, drawing millions (and i mean millions) of people to follow it who never used to pay any attention to collegiate basketball. Must be that they all hate it ever time Siena beats Stanford, Coastal Carolina upsets someone or a Gonzaga makes a surprise run through a couple of rounds. By all means, let's go back to the days when there were only 16 teams in the tournament, and some conferences wouldn't even let their No. 2 team compete. gh
Re: t-and-f: Regionals
In a message dated Fri, 13 Apr 2001 4:24:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It seems to me that the simplest way to solve most of the problems involving regionals would be to set back the NCAA championship meet by a week or two -- where it used to be. the Nationals is indeed now going to be run a week later. The latest the Nationals was ever held was June 21-22 of 1946. One thing we can hope for is that the pushing back of the NCAA will also force the USATF meetwhere it should be, even later in the year. Like the last week of June, or even in July. gh
Re: t-and-f: Regionals oops
i missed one: the latest nationals ever was June 22-23 of 1934. The first time the meet was ever held with competition in May didn't come until 1977. gh
Re: t-and-f: Another View on NCAA Regionals
At 09:55 AM 4/12/2001 -0700, t-and-f-digest wrote.. Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:54:53 -0400 From: "Kebba Tolbert" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Another View on NCAA Regionals I'm with you Scott! I think regionals is a huge, huge mistake. I really feel like the best kids in the country are already getting to nationals. Kebba Tolbert ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) = Mr Tolbert misses at least two of the primary reasons for switching to regionals: 1) We are choosing the best COMPETITORS not the best time trialers, which is too often the current situation. Head to head competition is the only means of determining this. I think we fundamentally differ over what defines the "best" athletes, and the NCAA committee currently agrees with my viewpoint. 2) The qualification process should be exciting to fans as well. It currently is not. Regional meets will add four more exciting meets, and with the inclusion of conference champions as regional qualifiers, those meets also will take on added meaning. Fans will now see meaningful competition in more places in the country. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I would also suggest for all of you gleeful folks to consider getting a ticket to either Mt. SAC, Penn or Drake this year to see what will probably be the last editions of these meets as you currently know them. I will check in with you next year after the big, established meets take horrific attendance hits from the colleges to see whether you still feel this is helping US track and field. Athletes generally are not brought to Drake or Penn to qualify for the NCAAs, (except possibly in the 10k, which continues under the old rules anyway, which I stated earlier that I endorsed). They come for the relays, of which almost none are NCAA events. At Penn the conditions make qualifying for the NC's in the 4x1 and 4x4 difficult anyway (try scratch starts in the heats for one thing!) Athletes still need topline competition in April. As I said earlier, Mt SAC is in a unique position, and Scott needs to reconsider how he structures the meet. I would hope he plumbs this list for ideas, because it is an excellent competition. However, we can't hold up reform to maintain the status of one meet. BTW, we will move from having 3 big meets in April, to four big meets in May. Seems to be a net addition. The regional structure will have an additional benefit. It will relieve the pressure to hit qualifying times early in the season and then try to maintain a peak through May. I know that requirement hurt me in my senior year at UCB. Now all you have to do is be ready in May. I'm sorry if that means diminished performances in April, but I'd rather see athletes not have to overreach as they do now. Richard McCann
Re: t-and-f: Regionals
gh wrote: One thing we can hope for is that the pushing back of the NCAA will also force the USATF meetwhere it should be, even later in the year. Like the last week of June, or even in July. Which would then make it easier to create a nationwide set of local and regional meets - with the USATF meet where it is now, it isn't feasible to conduct an effective lead-in to nationals other than the big invitationals. (which are fine for a few elite and for the fans but do little to develop the sport) gh - what would you see as the most logical date if you were in charge of scheduling? I suppose it might vary depending on the WC and/or Olympic dates, although really it should stay the same weekend every year if we wanted to maximize promotion. I'd love to see a variation on golf's U.S. open scenario, where 25% of the USATF nationals participants come via local and regional qualifiers. It would create more local publicity for the national meet without affecting the top places very much. More importantly, it would create a logical and easily publicized set of competition opportunities at the sub-elite level. To some extent, this second item may be assisted by the USATF club nationals being introduced this July, but that doesn't help the current nationals. Another question - when do the various national championships of the European countries occur? And when do the Kenyan nationals occur? - Ed Parrot
t-and-f: Kalenjins Who Have Won Boston
Following is a list of the Kalenjin women who have won the Boston Marathon: Gee, with all the tribes that make up the Kalenjin "tribe", you'd think they could have won something. Bruce Meyer KUKIMBIA Chicago
Re: t-and-f: Mad Conference Disease
Steve Lynn and Dick Lee, of Iowa State, have told me that scheduling Regionals on the last weekend in may will force their conference meet into April. The reason is that one school or another is in finals week the first three weeks of May (we sometimes forget they are students, I know). Thus, as I believe Scott Davis mentioned, they will not be able to compete in the Drake Relays, the biggest and best meet in the region. As a fan, I think regionals sound great. I detest the qualifier chasing that dominates the collegiate season. But currently the best meets I go to are conference championships. Even without considering the impact on invitational meets like Drake, forcing conference championships into April, especially here in the north, is destructive of what is currently the highlight of the season. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 12:09:26 EDT To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: Mad Conference Disease In posts I've received both on and off the list, there has been a steady flow of "the sky is falling" talk regards what Regionals are going to do to conference meets. Other than all the apparently uninformed spongiform babbling, does anybody actually have any FACTS on this subject, or does Henny Penny rule? Instead of letting the tourists handle the blow-the-ballast button on this submarine, how about we hear some facts from the crew first? I'll stop now before my metaphoric overload over-ride switch kicks in. gh.
Re: t-and-f: Regionals
Another question - when do the various national championships of the European countries occur? And when do the Kenyan nationals occur? The third or fourth week of July, when the European circuit pretty much "shuts down" to allow athletes to return to their home countries for their NC's. And that's where it makes most sense to have the USATF meet. The complaint has always come from collegiate coaches that it stretches the season way too long for their athletes after the NCAA's- it would be an entire month of "down time" waiting for USATF NC's. But for elite athletes, the IAAF tour starts at the end of May and goes full steam up to mid-July, then takes that break. So they usually miss a key meet or two in June right now to have to come to USATF NC's if they want to be assured of a berth on whatever international team happens to be formed that year. The answer for the collegiate athletes: if you're not good enough to go to Europe (or can't accept any prize money), here's the opportunity for USATF to set up a USATF Tier II Grand Prix circuit from mid-June up to NC's at end of July. The CAN AM series (for middle-distance and distance track races) is a superb example. Don't EXPECT too many top elite athletes (they'll be in Europe), so do anything dumb like depend on sale of a lot of gate tickets or anything. Fund it out of development funding or corporate sponsorships. Who knows, if successful, one or two of these Tier II meets might qualify for IAAF GPII staus, or at least IAAF-permit status. But don't make that the end-all objective. Also keep in mind that a USATF NC at end of July makes venues such as New Orleans EVEN WORSE as far as heat and humidity, so the slate of candidate host cities might migrate a little northward. So much the better (for everybody except sprinters). Sorry Darrell. Seattle or Minneapolis or Buffalo would be great in July. RT
t-and-f: Syedikh, Farmer-Patrick record attempts?
Y ask Y: Kansas Relays reports: LAWRENCE, Kan. -- Yuriy Syedikh (Yur-ee Sid-yeak), the world record holder in the men's hammer throw with a mark of 284-7 will compete at the 2001 Kansas Relays, "An Olympic Return." Syedikh, a former Track and Field News athlete of the year, has had over 204 documented throws over 80 meters. Syedikh is a veteran of multiple Olympic teams for the Soviet Union. The Bill Penny hammer throw takes place on April 19 at 5 pm just outside Memorial Stadium. "As far as athletes go and as far as the hammer throw goes this guy is an absolute legend," Kansas Relays meet director Tim Weaver said. "I've seen studies done that have marked consistency over time and this guy ranks above Michael Johnson as far as athletic excellence. They don't get much bigger then Yuriy and I hope that we have enough field to contain his throws." Me again: It's not likely that YS will throw 80 meters at Kansas, but if he's in good shape he'll have a good shot at the world age-group record for me 45-49. (He was born June 11, 1955.) The current M45 WAVA record is 64.70 (212-3) by American Dave McKenzie on 6- 4-95. YS already holds the M40 record at 75.66 (248-3) on 6-29-95. In addition, Sanda Farmer Patrick is set to run the 400 hurdles at Kansas. She's 38, having been born August 8, 1962. The single-age world record for 38 is 62.82 by Leonie Louwrens of South Africa on 7-19-97. That's a soft record. WAVA records in that event: W35 52.94 Marina Stepanova(URS) 36 9/17/86 W40 62.08 Maria Sangous Espina(ESP) 40 6/22/95 Ken Stone http://www.masterstrack.com
t-and-f: Old high schoolers
Netters: On the question of how old a high school athlete should be before being ruled ineligible: At one time, New Jersey had a simple rule: when a boy (no girls competing then) reached his 20th birthday, he became ineligible that day even if it was in mid-season of a sport. This was based on the state law which guaranteed (and still does, I believe) free oublic education to anyone below the age of 20. (In fact, I heard last year that there was a move to go back to this, based on the simple fact that any student eligible for education should be eligible for anything connected with it. (Ofcourse, we also have an eight-term rule which would make 99 e=per cent of all our HS students ineligible long before they reach 20). The usual rule around the country is that an athletes becvomes ineligible if he/she passes a 19th birthday before Sept. 1 of the school year concerned. New York changed this to July 1 a couple of years ago and, as Walt Murphy notes, Pennsylvania still has the ancient limit. I could be wrong on this, but I believe that, in Texas, most athlketes (read football players) are at least 18 in their senior season (and 19 if the birthday is in the proper place, after Sept. 1). This would make a majority of the track persons among them 19 by the outdoor season. Ed Grant
Re: t-and-f: Regionals
What about the existing U.S. IAAF meets? While I would love to have my meet later in the summer when the weather in Oregon is likely to be better, I am sure that the quality of the fields would be lessen by more competition with the European circuit. Both the Pre Classic and the adidas Oregon Track Classic were able to do ok last year despite the European conflicts because of the importance for many Americans of the upcoming Olympic Trials and their interest in staying home. I don't think that would carry over to non-Olympic years. I would think that continuing to have the U.S. IAAF meets in late May and early June would work best with additional meets held during the summer, whether the U.S. Champs changes dates or not. Paul Banta adidas Oregon Track Classic 503-620-4052 www.oregontrackclassic.com - Original Message - From: "Randy Treadway" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 3:33 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Regionals The answer for the collegiate athletes: if you're not good enough to go to Europe (or can't accept any prize money), here's the opportunity for USATF to set up a USATF Tier II Grand Prix circuit from mid-June up to NC's at end of July. Who knows, if successful, one or two of these Tier II meets might qualify for IAAF GPII staus, or at least IAAF-permit status. But don't make that the end-all objective.
Re: t-and-f: Regionals
What about the existing U.S. IAAF meets? They are at the beginning of the IAAF season, right? So a U.S. athlete will run the U.S. meets before going to Europe. Then, head over to Europe for 4-5 weeks, then back for USATF nationals during the break. No extra trips to Europe and gives athletes a chance to get their feet wet at home before heading to Europe. - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: Regionals
Another question - when do the various national championships of the European countries occur? And when do the Kenyan nationals occur? The third or fourth week of July, when the European circuit pretty much "shuts down" to allow athletes to return to their home countries for their NC's. And that's where it makes most sense to have the USATF meet. The complaint has always come from collegiate coaches that it stretches the season way too long for their athletes after the NCAA's- it would be an entire month of "down time" waiting for USATF NC's. This is one of the ironies of NCAA track field. The best athletes in each event will generally qualify for USATF meet and some of them will be vying for international team spots. And the entire NCAA Division I setup is geared towards these individuals. Much of the complaints about lack of competition during the NCAA can be directly linked to the steps being taken to accomodate these top 100-200 athletes. Yet if we really wanted to serve these individuals, their season wouldn't start until mid-may, period. But that wouldn't be acceptable because it doesn't fit with college calendars and it would bring home the fact that those athletes who are not in the top 100-200 don't really matter that much to the NCAA. So what we have is the worst of all possible compromises, with a schedule that doesn't serve the elite athletes well becuase they have to compete from early April on, and doesn't serve the non-elite athletes, either, because little is done to enhance their experience. I have always believed that the current development structure in the U.S. is out of whack and the inability of USATF, the NCAA and high schools to form a cohesive program that actually serves the athletes is the main problem. It is easy enough to see that the NCAA has the most power of the three, which is why both USATF and high schools build their programs around the NCAA to a large extent. I'm all for having the USATF meet at the end of July where it belongs. In three out of four years, the meet is a selection race for international teams, and if the collegians can't be expected to be ready in late July, they certainly won't be ready for a championship meet the following month. Keeping the USATF meet in June simply assures that we will have more athletes competing for us internationally who are way past their peak. - Ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: Kalenjins Who Have Won Boston
on 13/4/01 10:51 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Following is a list of the Kalenjin women who have won the Boston Marathon: Gee, with all the tribes that make up the Kalenjin "tribe", you'd think they could have won something. Bruce Meyer KUKIMBIA Chicago That's because they are all trying to become football players but they don't realise they have the wrong body shape! Randall Northam
RE: t-and-f: Regionals
I am sure that the quality of the fields would be lessen by more competition with the European circuit. What scheduling conflicts from July 10 - July 28? malmo Both the Pre Classic and the adidas Oregon Track Classic were able to do ok last year despite the European conflicts because of the importance for many Americans of the upcoming Olympic Trials and their interest in staying home. I don't think that would carry over to non-Olympic years. I would think that continuing to have the U.S. IAAF meets in late May and early June would work best with additional meets held during the summer, whether the U.S. Champs changes dates or not. Paul Banta adidas Oregon Track Classic 503-620-4052 www.oregontrackclassic.com - Original Message - From: "Randy Treadway" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 3:33 PM Subject: Re: t-and-f: Regionals The answer for the collegiate athletes: if you're not good enough to go to Europe (or can't accept any prize money), here's the opportunity for USATF to set up a USATF Tier II Grand Prix circuit from mid-June up to NC's at end of July. Who knows, if successful, one or two of these Tier II meets might qualify for IAAF GPII staus, or at least IAAF-permit status. But don't make that the end-all objective.
Re: t-and-f: Regionals
Ed- (and list) your problem here is you think it is the NCAA's( and schools themselves) job's to get these kids ready for International comp?? GET REAL, this list is so off base when they talk about this stuff, it isnt funny. If those 100 or more kids want to start in mid may that is fine, just let them pay their respective tuitions and do their thing. College Track is way more than the 1% who go to nationals, and as many of our european folks will say, "school is for learning and Athletics is run by clubs" School is for people who wish to learn, school's sponsor sports (especailly non revenue one's) to give an all around experience for "mind and body". While most schools love the press that having an athlete of theirs make the Olympic team or such gets them, don't think for a second that school Ad's or presidents give two shits what USATF wants or does. 98% of Kids who do NCAA Track will never go to a NCAA Meet, most schools never send anyone, and they dont stop having teams. These kids do it for their love of the sport, and the schools have the sport to enhance kids experiences, and they know they will see that money back many times over in donations and the like. Fire away! nick (with first hand experience at many different levels)
t-and-f: Stripper
Alright, I don't want to be the guy known as the porn peddler but. yeah so I've got a link here to some pictures that leave nothing to the imagination. http://www.angelfire.com/my/flabby/leilani.html#29 Enjoy! dan ps. just to let you know what you're getting into, there are some pics of her with a pair of Zoom Kennedys... ONLY a pair of Zoom Kennedys. Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
t-and-f: regionals won't kill the NCAA schedule
The NCAA meet will be one week later than right now, running from Weds-Sat as always. The regionals will be held one week prior to the current NCAA weekend, meaning 11-15 days before the new NCAA date, depending on event. This date for the regional is currently a non-competition weekend. The week before - since the complaint seems to be about not wanting to compete the weekend before the regional - is currently limited to conference championships and designated last-chance meets. The last chance meets won't really exist anymore - which is fine because the people currently using those meets to qualify for the national meet should have no trouble qualifying for the regional. Thus if your conference meet is not on the "last chance" weekend, this change will have NO impact on your schedule - except that the number of non-competitive "competitions" you engage in for the purpose of getting qualifying marks will be reduced, hopefully increasing the number of times you do truly adventurous things like keep score and race to see who can reach the finish line first. About half of the major conferences do run that weekend; the others are earlier. For those conferences, they will face the choice of competing 6-7 days before the regional, or moving one or more weeks earlier. The problem of exams in the Big 12 has been brought up. But those schools use the same academic calendar that is in place everywhere else in the country. The SEC manages to hold its meet a week earlier, and with 12 schools it is a safe bet that they have a variety of different schedules. I am willing to bet that other spring sports in the Big 12 manage to work around the exam schedules. If they really have trouble with it, they could move to Sat/Sun instead of Fri/Sat and greatly reduce the conflicts. The problems of the Big Three relay meets have also been brought up. Excuse me, but what percentage of the time when a gun is fired at Penn is there even the theoretical possibility of an NCAA qualifying mark being recorded? The crowds there are paying, more than anything else, for high school races and sunshine. Even among the college competitors, how many of them are a) competing in an event contested at the NCAA meet, and b) have even a 1% chance of competing at the NCAA meet in that event this year? One thing that is certainly true for all three meets is that if it becomes easier for the best athletes (or any given athlete, for that matter) to reach the NCAA regional standard than it is to reach the current national standard, it becomes more likely that that athlete will seriously contest relay events rather than taking every possible shot at improving their individual mark. Given what I know of the crowd at Drake, it seems that it is also largely motivated by social factors and should not be seriously affected by this change. As for Mt.SAC - how many different schools and individuals (including pre- and post-collegians) compete there, and we are hearing it will be destroyed because the USC-UCLA dual might have to be moved to the following weekend? From 2500 miles away, this meet to me has always seemed to be most about stellar open athletes, who won't be affected at all by what the NCAA does. Yes, the colleges fill the races and pay the bills, but we achieve the same thing on a smaller (but still huge) scale in Raleigh, and I've seen enough to know that no matter where you are most of those people aren't even thinking about NCAA qualifying. Mt.SAC probably loses more and gains less than either of the other meets, but this is not crippling. Another way of looking at this for any meet director: How many of your competitors are NCAA division I athletes? The others aren't affected. Of those DI athletes, how many have conference meets the last possible weekend? If not, they will not be affected by the schedule. Of those who are not affected by schedule concerns, how many come only for the opportunity to get an NCAA qualifying mark, but would not need to come to get a regional qualifying mark? On the flip side, how many might now show up to try for the regional mark when the national mark was unrealistic, and how many will now come to the meet for the competition instead of going somewhere else to chase marks? The questions of cost - particularly the cost of keeping athletes on campus longer - are legitimate, but they have not been widely discussed here. I just don't understand all the whining about a change that seems so clearly positive from the point of view of encouraging competition. david honea
Re: t-and-f: Regionals
On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 20:18:46 EDT, you wrote: While most schools love the press that having an athlete of theirs make the Olympic team or such gets them, don't think for a second that school Ad's or presidents give two shits what USATF wants or does. Agreed. So why should USATF bend itself into a pretzel to fit around an NCAA schedule? The USATF doesn't depend on collegians even one tenth as much as its federation predecessors did 30 years ago. USATF should set its own calendar based on its OWN needs, then provide opportunities to help bridge any gaps between the NCAA calendar and the USATF calendar, as development opportunities for the top tier collegians. RT
t-and-f: Re: t-and-f-digest V1 #3545
That's because Kalenjin women are, by and large, not permitted to run, as I explain in "Taboo." But let's not let the facts get in the of pseudo-science. For the record, the last four Boston Marathon women's division races have been won by East African women from the identical western rim of the Great Rift Valley and an shared genetics with the Kalenjin. But let's not let the facts get in the of pseudo-science. I guess you're right Randall. It's because Kalenjins and other highlander East Africans smile more that explains why they win in Kenya. On 4/13/01 5:19 PM, "t-and-f-digest" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 00:59:10 +0100 From: Randall Northam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: t-and-f: Kalenjins Who Have Won Boston on 13/4/01 10:51 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Following is a list of the Kalenjin women who have won the Boston Marathon: Gee, with all the tribes that make up the Kalenjin "tribe", you'd think they could have won something. Bruce Meyer KUKIMBIA Chicago That's because they are all trying to become football players but they don't realise they have the wrong body shape! Randall Northam -- Jon Entine RuffRun 6178 Grey Rock Rd. Agoura Hills, CA 91301 (818) 991-9803 [FAX] 991-9804 http://www.jonentine.com
Re: t-and-f: National class runner runs only 5 days a week?
I think his training is based on two things: 1. he got hurt a lot in the past when he ran really high mileage. 2. he experimented with a variation of a training method developed for swimmers, a couple of years ago and ran a 1:03/1:04 half marathon off of it and has been tinkering with it since. I think the program works like: go very very hard two days then take two one to two days completely off. An australian (??) guy came up with this and one of his pupils medaled in the commonwealth games. Supposedly running hard repeatedly over such a short time span (24 hours)is better than waiting two days before the next workout. To me it(I still keep he oldschool running program) sounds like a recipe for injury but it's worked for some people... Another point that motivates the theory is "what purpose do easy runs serve if you're going significantly slower than pace?" Also, the 5 days are not contiguous. i hope i'm not divulging too much of his program but i think a lot of this stuff can be found on the web and he's not the only one who's tried something like this. Joel (currently injured member of Team Brownstone) [.sig] AXAF Public Outreach: http://xrtpub.harvard.edu Morceli Home Page: http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/tetreaul/morceli.html On Fri, 13 Apr 2001, Edward Nigma wrote: Noticed the following exchange in Runnersworl Online's recent interview with up and coming marathoner Todd Reeser. Reeser explains how he only runs 5 days each week, but puts in a ton of miles on those days... has anyone ever heard of this approach? Do you think the logic is sound? Wouldn't his body take less of a beating overall if he spread the running out over 7 days? Maybe some coaches and physiologists on the list have an opinion... Thanks, ED RWD: With each year, can you handle more in training? TR: Actually, I'm running less now than in the past. This year, I've only run five days a week, but on those days I'm running 26, 27, 28 miles, and both workouts each day are very, very hard. But on my days off, I devote the entire day to resting, and to my strengthening and stretching routine. I don't think it was my hard workouts that got me hurt; I think it was being a slave to going out and running on my easy days, and pushing the pace on those too hard. The best thing is to rest; I'm not going to gain anything from running on my easy days. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
Re: t-and-f: Regionals
On Fri, 13 Apr 2001 20:18:46 EDT, you wrote: While most schools love the press that having an athlete of theirs make the Olympic team or such gets them, don't think for a second that school Ad's or presidents give two shits what USATF wants or does. and RT wrote: So why should USATF bend itself into a pretzel to fit around an NCAA schedule? The USATF doesn't depend on collegians even one tenth as much as its federation predecessors did 30 years ago. USATF should set its own calendar based on its OWN needs, then provide opportunities to help bridge any gaps between the NCAA calendar and the USATF calendar, as development opportunities for the top tier collegians. Absolutely. But guess who makes the decision - the men's and women's track and field committees of USATF. Technically I guess the Board of Directors has to approve it, but it's a hard to see them disagreeing with the two track field committees unless the athletes advisory committee made a huge deal about it. Want to take a guess who makes up a substantial majority of the track field committees - NCAA coaches, that's who. Want to take a guess who has the most influence in those committees - NCAA Division I coaches. If the NCAA coaches don't want the date moved, it probably won't be moved. - ed Parrot
Re: t-and-f: regionals won't kill the NCAA schedule
Well, the USC-UCLA meet has traditionally been the first Saturday in May, and the weather has generally been pretty good for it. Moving it a week earlier would probably invite poorer weather. The Pac-10 Championships have indeed been only 10 days before the NCAA Championships, and it has been difficult for teams to perform well in both the Pac-10s and the NCAAs. Adding regionals might make this problem worse. Even fewer athletes would have seasonal bests in the NCAAs. Still, the regional qualifiers might work if it cut down the NCAA Championships in size and reduced the number of heats. Steven
