Re: [Tagging] Is highway=service, service=drive_thru a good idea?

2010-10-20 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: > It is for this reason that I prefer underscores myself. > > So service=drive_through it is? I think so. Could we also start recording deprecated synonyms on the wiki? In this case, service=drive-through and service=drive_thru should

Re: [Tagging] Paper streets?

2010-10-20 Thread Steve Bennett
>I was not aware that having OSM map streets was the kiss of death for any >further development. Hi. These are the kinds of sarcastic, unhelpful remarks that make OSM lists suck. Please don't do it. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap

Re: [Tagging] Paper streets?

2010-10-20 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 2:51 AM, Anthony wrote: > It doesn't feel right to call something a highway=* if it isn't usable > for travel.  If it is usable for travel, then it should be tagged > highway=track/path/etc as appropriate. highway=proposed and highway=construction aren't usable for travel.

Re: [Tagging] Paper streets?

2010-10-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Pieren wrote: > I think that OSM should by a project about mapping the present, not the past > or the future. What is the "near future" ? 2 months, 2 years, 20 years ? We > have far enough to do just to keep the data up to date. The focus should be the present, b

Re: [Tagging] Paper streets?

2010-10-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Steve Bennett wrote: > IMHO yes. If you remember a few months ago I was asking about a > confusing situation where a street appeared on Google Maps, but not on > OSM. When I arrived at the location, it didn't exist. If it had been > mapped o

Re: [Tagging] Paper streets?

2010-10-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 6:17 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > I'm wondering if there's any benefit in mapping "paper streets" - IMHO yes. If you remember a few months ago I was asking about a confusing situation where a street appeared on Google Maps, but not on OSM. When I arrived at the location,

Re: [Tagging] Is highway=service, service=drive_thru a good idea?

2010-10-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 4:48 AM, Anthony wrote: > I'm not aware of any hyphens which are converted into underscores, let alone > that this is "predominantly" the case.  And even if it is "predominantly" man_made=pier power=sub_station A key or a value don't have to be correct grammatical English

Re: [Tagging] Layer=* tags disappearing

2010-10-12 Thread Steve Bennett
They don't all have to be highway/railways. Drains, pedestrian walkways, any ground level object, and overhead cables could all count in that 11. Steve (contributing to the spam) On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Lennard wrote: > On 12-10-2010 20:49, Lennard wrote: > >> I'd rather not see an

Re: [Tagging] Fwd: Schema-rama rama

2010-10-09 Thread Steve Bennett
Sure. There are all kinds of obvious problems that need to be confronted: - any group making decisions about tags will invariably meet challenges to its authority from other groups - different OSM subcommunities have different tagging ideas (eg, Germany) - there are many people who believe that usa

Re: [Tagging] What exactly is a greenfield?

2010-10-05 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Jason Cunningham wrote: > I think Brownfield would be useful for mapping current status of previously > developed land, not currently used, and where the future use is unknown or > not agreed upon. Agreed. There are plenty of tracts of land you can see in aerial ph

Re: [Tagging] What exactly is a greenfield?

2010-10-04 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 8:00 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > According to the wiki, landuse=greenfield "Describes land scheduled > for new development where there have been no buildings before". Does > this mean that any undeveloped land owned by a developer or zoned as > planned development is a gre

Re: [Tagging] Tagging average speed [Was: Re: Residential roads]

2010-10-03 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 1:17 AM, Anthony wrote: > I very much disagree that this should be a tag.  If it's going to be > included, it should be in a separate table or set of tables. Agreed. The entire world is not in scope for OSM. When we hit things like this, we need to say "this is not in scope

Re: [Tagging] Residential roads

2010-10-02 Thread Steve Bennett
On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 6:52 PM, Pieren wrote: > Could you provide some examples of such "various programs" because this > distinction is new for me. I think cloudmade does this. Also, GPSes that do routing estimate speeds based on road type, I believe. I'm sure I've read someone's analysis of ho

Re: [Tagging] Residential roads

2010-09-29 Thread Steve Bennett
Hi Stephen, You've highlighted two grey areas I often struggle with. On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Stephen Hope wrote: > First, I've recently done a couple of roads in the country. They're > either dead end roads or form some sort of web but are not connecting > roads in the sense that they

Re: [Tagging] musings on landuse

2010-09-26 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > It seems to me that landuse is a mess. There are the obvious values > like residential, commercial, and industrial, but beyond those are a > lot of minor values that could be grouped much better into a few > values. For example: > landuse=

Re: [Tagging] how to tag hockey rink - NOT ice hockey

2010-09-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Sep 20, 2010 at 12:36 PM, Antony Pegg wrote: > I need to tag a hockey rink - regular hockey, not ice hockey. > > There is no leisure=rink, only leisure=ice_rink > > http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rink > > this is an outdoor boxed-in structure with asphalt or concrete ground to > play hoc

Re: [Tagging] sneaking in tags in the wiki

2010-09-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 11:59 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > If people would ask here before simply sneaking in tags, there would > probably be less mess in the wiki and our tagging structure. IMHO the wiki suffers more from under-updating rather than over-updating. If people would be a little

Re: [Tagging] tall masts supported by guy wires

2010-09-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Anthony wrote: > On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 9:26 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: >> One test to apply when considering stuff like this: what would happen >> if a renderer supported "man_made=tower" but none of the sub-tags. >> Would it be

Re: [Tagging] [OpenStreetMap] social facility

2010-09-12 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 6:28 AM, Sean Horgan wrote: > social_facility=emergency_shelter (a shelter for homeless people e.g. in > case of a disaster) The description there looks horribly confusing to me. The words "homeless shelter" leap off the page, even though that's not what it's describing.

Re: [Tagging] tall masts supported by guy wires

2010-09-12 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 12:00 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > (I am not really sure if this is nice: tagging as a tower, which it > technically isn't, and then specify in the tower-subtag, which kind of > "non-tower" it really is. Though we (? some?) do this with tunnels as > well (I don't actua

Re: [Tagging] Relation for saying "x is attached to y"?

2010-09-05 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Peter Wendorff wrote: > I'm sure, there has to be a way for renderers to collapse parallel ways to > one - without explicit tagging in the database. > The railway example is only one of more examples. Right, to do this well we'd really need to work out some good us

Re: [Tagging] Relation for saying "x is attached to y"?

2010-09-03 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 9:59 AM, John F. Eldredge wrote: > The problem is that, even if you have a tag on the shared way indicating "use > this only for zoom X or below", and tags on the separate ways saying "use > this only for zoom Y and above", there are likely to be some rendering > programs

Re: [Tagging] Relation for saying "x is attached to y"?

2010-09-03 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 2:37 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > so you are talking about rendering? Primarily, yes. But could be useful for other applications. For example, to do public transport routing, you would want to operate at the level of "the train line", not at the level of an individual t

Re: [Tagging] Relation for saying "x is attached to y"?

2010-09-02 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 1:46 AM, Phil! Gold wrote: > There is a proposal for a tracks= tag: > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Multiple_Tracks Ok, two points: 1) That's a mechanism for only having a single way, and coding information about the number of tracks. I'm talking a

Re: [Tagging] sport=beachvolleyball?

2010-09-02 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 3:18 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > I'm wondering if there's a reason this is beachvolleyball rather than > beach_volleyball. Most other tags seem to have underscores where > spaces would go between words. The tagging scheme is essentially a folksonomy. This is the natural c

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Sauna

2010-08-30 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 11:34 PM, Peter Körner wrote: > Hi Kim, > > why exactly do you want to convert a widely used tag (amenity=sauna, ~1000 > uses) to a very rarely used tag (leisure=sauna, ~13 uses). Agreed. Unless there is something very clearly broken with the naming of the tag (power=sub_s

Re: [Tagging] now i'm completely stumped...

2010-08-30 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 3:29 AM, Richard Welty wrote: > > > Weight Watchers? > > Dale Carnegie Training? > > Arthur Murray Dance Studio? OSM is not setting out to build an ontology of business types. Does that help? Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagg

Re: [Tagging] Relation for saying "x is attached to y"?

2010-08-30 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Richard Welty wrote: > i'd lean towards site relations being useful because i think that > the computational complexity of doing lots of polygon intersections > is being underestimated. yes, for small bounding boxes it's ok, > but consider if you needed to do it o

Re: [Tagging] Relation for saying "x is attached to y"?

2010-08-30 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 2:09 AM, Sebastian Klein wrote: > Isn't it kind of obvious, that a "photovoltaic" type power generator is > located on top of the building rather than inside or below? > > You may assume a basic level of intelligence from the user of the data and > add only information that

Re: [Tagging] Tagging "natural" borders

2010-08-24 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Steve Bennett wrote: > To pick a random example: > http://osm.org/go/uG2Mh6iR Oops, sorry for spam, but nearby I spotted a convenient example of the alternative approach: one way that serves as both administrative boundary and river. http://osm.org/go/uG2

Re: [Tagging] Tagging "natural" borders

2010-08-24 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 3:48 AM, Erik G. Burrows wrote: > 3. Most renderers draw line features on top of polygon features making the > rendering nicer looking In practice, having two independent ways actually renders worse, because they tend to criss-cross each other arbitrarily. In the Australia

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an unsigned bike lane?

2010-08-23 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > Hell no. Mind cutting out the inflammatory language? > That would be a parking lane, not suitable for cycling. http://www.gleneira.vic.gov.au/Files/draft_Glen_Eira_Bicycle_Strategy_v3.2.pdf See page 16, and repeated references to "bik

Re: [Tagging] Is cycleway:right=lane necessary on a one-way street?

2010-08-22 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > Oh, bleh. You're talking about a situation where a bike lane on one > side of the road is two-way: > http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/pedbike/05085/chapt15.cfm#pra > I don't know how I'd tag that, but I'd certainly add

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an unsigned bike lane?

2010-08-22 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > Around here there are a few roads that have spaces striped as if they > were bike lanes, but they're not actually marked as such, so they > don't fall under the mandatory bike lane law ("shall ride in the lane > marked for bicycle use").

Re: [Tagging] Is cycleway:right=lane necessary on a one-way street?

2010-08-20 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 1:45 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > I've seen this called a contraflow bike lane. The only difference > between an actual contraflow bike lane and a one-way street that's > two-way for bikes is a centerline, and we don't normally tag whether a > street has a centerline. So I

Re: [Tagging] Is cycleway:right=lane necessary on a one-way street?

2010-08-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:32 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > but doesn't this not just reduce the bike traffic to the opposite > direction? Would you say that the oneway direction is already > implicit? cycleway=opposite_lane means travel in *both* the forward direction, and the backward directi

Re: [Tagging] Is cycleway:right=lane necessary on a one-way street?

2010-08-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 7:47 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > If you say on onewaystreets cycleway=lane is the same as > cycleway:right=lane, how would you tag a oneway street that has a > bike-lane for both directions? And one that has 2 bikelanes, one for > each direction (left and right)? I do

Re: [Tagging] mapnik tags used

2010-08-18 Thread Steve Bennett
I'm glad you asked: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/user:Stevage/tagsupport Not just Mapnik, but Osmarender, Kosmos, and presets for several editors. Steve On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Sam Vekemans wrote: > hi, > does anyone have a complete list of what osm tags that mapnik > currently

Re: [Tagging] Vacant shop tagging...

2010-08-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 6:48 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > I don't think that this is a good idea. An empty shop is still a shop, > so shop=no is simply wrong. IMHO, for the scope of OSM (producing maps), a vacant shop, a closed shop, a non-shop, a shop that's actually an apartment are all the

Re: [Tagging] Tagging for streets with sharrows?

2010-08-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > Perhaps it's best to think of the cycleway tag as a newspeak term for > anything cycle-related, whether properly called a cycleway. A street > with an unmarked narrow strip becomes a cycleway=lane when signs are > posted or symbols are pai

Re: [Tagging] Tagging for streets with sharrows?

2010-08-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Anthony wrote: > On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: >> Any arguments against cycleway=sharrow? > > Yes, a cycleway should be mainly/exclusively for bicycles. Hmm, I guess we're interpreting "cycleway=x" differen

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] proposal: rental=*

2010-08-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 11:58 AM, John Smith wrote: > Which is why I added a bunch of tags after describing what it does rent... Which only a few diehards are ever going to tag. Ease of use for taggers is a major consideration. More tags=more powerful information, but less usability. > >> means

Re: [Tagging] Vacant shop tagging...

2010-08-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Aug 16, 2010 at 7:30 AM, John Smith wrote: > I'm not sure this is the best way to do things, what do others think? > > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Map_Features:shop&oldid=517645&diff=next I think I'd prefer shop=no personally, in an effort to reduce all the sy

Re: [Tagging] Tagging for streets with sharrows?

2010-08-17 Thread Steve Bennett
> Incorrect.  A sharrow is used on a designated bicycle route [in Paul Johnson's part of the world] > to indicate what part of a shared lane bicyclists should use > [Stephen Hope] has never >seen them anywhere except on a route Let's make an effort to keep tagging schemes globally applicable, and

Re: [Tagging] Tagging for streets with sharrows?

2010-08-15 Thread Steve Bennett
>He wasn’t saying that bicycle=designated is always a sharrow, but that a >sharrow is effectively the same thing as a sign saying “bike route”. >They’re both ways of marking something as a designated route for bicycles. I don't agree with this. A single isolated road could have a sharrow, but woul

Re: [Tagging] Tagging for streets with sharrows?

2010-08-12 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 5:35 AM, Paul Johnson wrote: > bicycle=designated is all a sharrow means in OSM terms. No, there are other kinds of designation covered by bicycle=designated. I think we should pick a specific tag, write it up in the wiki, and go for it. Either: cycleway=sharrow or cyc

Re: [Tagging] What do others call this?

2010-08-09 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 11:32 AM, John Smith wrote: > On 10 August 2010 11:30, Richard Welty wrote: >> not sure it's wise to try and tag for crop types. many farms >> do rotate their crops, after all. not the same from year to year, >> and all that. > > In the area I grew up in they rotated twice

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Helmet cameras for mapping?

2010-08-09 Thread Steve Bennett
On 3/08/2010 10:50 PM, Serge Wroclawski wrote: Do these cameras store orientation data? No, it's just a camera. My GPS does, though, so theoretically I could stick my GPS on my helmet as well. Would be heavy, though. Steve ___ Tagging mailing list

Re: [Tagging] What do others call this?

2010-08-09 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 4:49 AM, Paul Johnson wrote: > Do they actually have a vineyard on site?  At least locally (US:OR), a > winery can't call itself a vineyard unless they're growing their grapes > on site, though you can call yourself a winery whether or not you grow on- > site (and indeed, th

Re: [Tagging] Shoulder and traffic indicator tags

2010-08-03 Thread Steve Bennett
Hi all, Did this discussion die out? The following two suggestions seem pretty sensible: cycleway=shoulder (There is no bike lane, but a rideable shoulder). cycleway=sharrow (There are marking on the road for bikes, but not an exclusive bike lane). The term "sharrow" was unfamiliar to me,

Re: [Tagging] Road closed in wet weather

2010-08-02 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Stephen Hope wrote: > If it's the discussion I'm remembering, I think the debate may have > started with the tag 4wd_only, (something like that, may not be > exact).  Which had the same issues - people were debating the > questions, while my point of view is that th

Re: [Tagging] tag groupings

2010-08-02 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 9:32 PM, Daniel Tremblay wrote: > I've suggested a shoulder=yes/no tag.  Somebody came out with a complex > structure (probably valid) for shoulders.  Does it really have to be that > complicated? I don't know.  You, speclists, know better than me. > > What are the objectiv

Re: [Tagging] Polite request for when replying.

2010-08-02 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 5:52 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > I suspect the problem is partly that people who are only subscribed to talk@ > are replying to the discussion, which is crossposted to talk@ and tagg...@. > The tagging@ list then rejects their messages because they're not > subscribed, ca

Re: [Tagging] Road closed in wet weather

2010-08-02 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 8:10 PM, John Smith wrote: > On 2 August 2010 20:05, Dave F. wrote: >> I see - a permanent sign. >> I've no idea was this was objected to. Was the discussion on how it was to >> be tagged? > > I can't remember what happened, and there is nothing really useful on > the discu

Re: [Tagging] Polite request for when replying.

2010-08-01 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 9:01 PM, Dave F. wrote: > Can I please ask that when replying to a previous message that they do it in > line so that they display in one thread. Sorry, what do you mean, "in line"? Fwiw, I'm using Gmail, which groups but doesn't tree-structure threads. So my issue is tha

Re: [Tagging] Builders' Merchants -> Timber Merchant

2010-07-30 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 4:03 PM, ael wrote: > Many of these places sell a very wide range of goods, so something like > building_supplies is sufficiently general to cover such cases. > Individual tags for every line would not be feasible, even if the > average mapper could get the information, and

Re: [Tagging] What do others call this?

2010-07-30 Thread Steve Bennett
My two cents: "winery" is a better term than "vineyard" because, in some contexts at least, the two have distinct meanings. "cellar door" is a bad term because it will be taken literally by many people and lead to confusion. Given that there are wineries that don't sell direct to the public, and

Re: [Tagging] Builders' Merchants -> Timber Merchant

2010-07-29 Thread Steve Bennett
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 9:13 PM, pavithran wrote: > I like the trade=* but why call it shop=trade . I doesnt sound good . > Is there a restrictions on 'keys' can't there be a key called 'trade' The benefit of shop=* is that renderers can use a generic shop icon. My suggestion: shop=trade_suppli

Re: [Tagging] Service=* used for highways and railways

2010-07-28 Thread Steve Bennett
On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 1:16 AM, John Smith wrote: >> electrified=yes). I'm sure soon enough we'll have a major collision, >> so to speak... > > you mean like power=station/generator etc? No. From a technical standpoint, there's actually not a problem there, it's technically a massive scale user

Re: [Tagging] Service=* used for highways and railways

2010-07-28 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 5:36 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > Actually it's railway=rail service=*. Yeah, that's the bit I found odd. I guess there are other examples of a tag meaning two different things depending on what the "main" tag is (eg, voltage=* can go with power=line, or railway=rail, ele

[Tagging] Service=* used for highways and railways

2010-07-28 Thread Steve Bennett
For some reason it completely escaped me that service=* is supposed to be used for both railways (eg, service=spur) and roads (service=alley). I don't really want to debate this situation with a view to changing it, but could someone give me a quick explanation on how this arose? It seems a little

Re: [Tagging] emergency=*

2010-07-27 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 3:19 PM, John Smith wrote: > In Australia the ambulance service is a completely different > organisation to fire and police and I can almost bet some would be > tagged amenity=ambulance or amenity=ambulance_station... That isn't to > say we should keep doing this if nothing

Re: [Tagging] paved=yes/no

2010-07-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 11:54 PM, Richard Mann wrote: > I don't think we're reaching any consensus that key:paved is an idea > to be positively recommended, so I think it's probably best to record > it in the wiki as "some people do this". > > I think the wiki would also benefit from a few notes s

Re: [Tagging] paved=yes/no

2010-07-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Richard Mann wrote: > I think surface started as a binary paved/unpaved for roads (with > paved assumed by default, and paved meaning tarmac), and has got > extended to cover cobbled roads, and (subsequently) as a way of adding > more info for tracks/paths. > > So

Re: [Tagging] paved=yes/no

2010-07-19 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 2:42 AM, Tobias Knerr wrote: > While the list of surface values is *potentially* unbounded, it is > finite at any given time. For practical purposes, just teach that list > of surface values on the wiki to your renderer, do a quick tagwatch > check to find out whether there

Re: [Tagging] paved=yes/no

2010-07-18 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 11:15 PM, Richard Welty wrote: > ummm, does this type of semantic (with two inconsistent tags, one has > priority) > appear anywhere else in OSM? There are lots of places where tag inconsistency can arise (eg, highway=cycleway, bicycle=no) but I'm not aware of anyone forma

Re: [Tagging] paved=yes/no

2010-07-17 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Alan Mintz wrote: > The current planet tagwatch has 19243 different keys, and shop, leisure, and > amenity have over 1000 values each. Many of these are mis-spellings, > capitalization errors, import-source-specific tags, etc., but it also > seems like a lot of peo

Re: [Tagging] paved=yes/no

2010-07-16 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Richard Welty wrote: > from a data modeling perspective, though, it's redundant and thus creates > the opportunity for inconsistency and unresolvable error. Do "data modelling perspectives" normally deal with folksonomies though? By its very nature, the data enter

Re: [Tagging] paved=yes/no

2010-07-15 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 8:43 AM, John Smith wrote: > That was what I was trying to figure out, is there a good reason for > such a tag, or is it going to just confuse people. IMHO yes it's useful, because the paved/unpaved distinction is by far the most important one for roads. The problem is tha

Re: [Tagging] Greenery adjacent to roads

2010-07-13 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > It probably doesn't render at all currently, but if it's used more > (I've used it for large expanses of roadway at toll booths where > highway=motorway area=yes is inappropriate because traffic flow is > controlled) it can be added to the

Re: [Tagging] Greenery adjacent to roads

2010-07-13 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 11:23 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: > Perhaps landuse=highway covering the entire highway right-of-way > (including sidewalks), and then surface=grass for the green areas? Oh, I like that. Because the use of the land really _is_ "highway"-related. I wonder how such a thing

Re: [Tagging] Greenery adjacent to roads

2010-07-13 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:37 PM, wrote: > How might I go about tagging the often quite extensive green stretches of > land to the side of larger roads here in Abu Dhabi (and indeed in many parts > of the world)?  Sometimes this is just grass (in which case landuse=grass > kind of makes sense) but

Re: [Tagging] sport=rugby

2010-06-30 Thread Steve Bennett
On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 11:47 AM, John Smith wrote: > On 1 July 2010 09:34, Steve Bennett wrote: >> What context are you thinking of? Forgive my ignorance, but if tagging >> leisure=pitch, don't the two codes use the same pitch? > > No, the size differs and the line mar

Re: [Tagging] sport=rugby

2010-06-30 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 10:11 PM, John Smith wrote: > Currently the neither the sport wiki page nor the sport=rugby wiki > page define what sport=rugby actually is, and I can't find anything > for 'union' or 'league' so I don't think this has been documented > properly. > > While I assume the curr

Re: [Tagging] What classification for a connecting link?

2010-06-21 Thread Steve Bennett
On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Simone Saviolo wrote: > The wiki seems pretty clear to me: the definition for trunk_link says > > "The link roads (sliproads/ramps) leading to/from a trunk road from/to > a trunk road or lower class highway." > > So if this connection leads from a trunk to a primar

Re: [Tagging] [Talk-us] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?

2010-06-16 Thread Steve Bennett
On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Zeke Farwell wrote: > Lots of good discussion here.  We seem to be split into two camps: > > Those who think an airport specific, verifiable, subset of of tags would be > best > Those who think a general importance tag with numeric values would be best 3: Those w

Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?

2010-06-15 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 3:17 PM, Stephen Hope wrote: > I think this concept is important.  People can come up with all sorts > of algorithms for ranking things according to all sorts of rules, and > none of them will work on every occasion.  We need some explicit > method of hinting to a renderer

Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?

2010-06-15 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 12:40 PM, Zeke Farwell wrote: > This is similar to the concept that the definition of highway=primary can > vary greatly depending on the area of the world you are looking at.  I'm not > sure how we can use things like runway length, size of airport polygon, or > annual air

Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?

2010-06-15 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 4:31 PM, John Smith wrote: > Numbers can be just as bad, what does 10 mean? is 1 the highest or lowest? Whatever it says in the wiki. See the difference? The more arbitrary the labelling system, the less likely people are to misuse their own intuition. (Ideally, it wouldn

Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?

2010-06-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:49 PM, John Smith wrote: > On 15 June 2010 13:33, Zeke Farwell wrote: >> Steve, >> I like this as a possible solution as well.  Perhaps the admin_level tag >> could be used?  Same as for boundaries.  The challenges in my eyes are not >> making the tagging scheme overly c

Re: [Tagging] highway=motorway and motorroad (implies)

2010-06-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 11:49 AM, Anthony wrote: > In any case, I don't think it should be called a motorway if bicycles are > allowed.  I suppose if bicycles are restricted to the shoulder it's arguably > still a motorway, but still, I think I'd rather see them tagged as > highway=trunk. This do

Re: [Tagging] [education] tag insttitute

2010-06-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Steve Bennett wrote: > College means about fifty different things in different schools. err, different countries. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] [education] tag insttitute

2010-06-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 8:01 AM, pavithran wrote: > Hi , > The education heirarchy goes like this : > > University  ->College -> School University is unambiguous. College means about fifty different things in different schools. ("University" in the US, "part of a university" in UK, "place studen

Re: [Tagging] Cable distribution cabinet

2010-06-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Liz wrote: > I've been to see a couple in my lifetime, most underground as part of > hydroelectric installations. > There is not a relationship between the visible building and the position of > the turbines which generate the power Maybe we could simplify everyth

Re: [Tagging] Aeroway=Aerodrome Modifier Tags?

2010-06-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 6:47 AM, Zeke Farwell wrote: > Hi everyone, > You may or may not know that currently in OSM there is only one [rendered] > tag to describe the many different types of places where planes can take off > and land (aeroway=aerodrome).  I'm trying to figure out how we can tag t

Re: [Tagging] route=fitness_trail

2010-06-14 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 12:06 AM, Thomas Ineichen wrote: > 'Station' sounds like a big shape.. (Ok, I started using it :) ) Although I just made up the term, "station" can be used in the sense of one step in a sequence (eg, "stations of the cross", "station in life") > Would fitness_post also be

Re: [Tagging] Cable distribution cabinet

2010-06-13 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 6:40 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > I'd see this similary, but in the end would rely on the wiki, which is > quite clear: > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dstation I don't see how "rely on the wiki" is a solution to the problem. The problem is not any of th

Re: [Tagging] route=fitness_trail

2010-06-13 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 12:51 AM, Thomas Ineichen wrote: > I started a map for fitness trails, a concept which seems to be known > mainly in german speaking europe; but there are a few trails around the > world: These were pretty big in Australia too, maybe in the 80s and early 90s. I don't see m

Re: [Tagging] What is this called?

2010-06-09 Thread Steve Bennett
On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 8:35 PM, André Riedel wrote: > I would prefer "barrier=horse_stiles". I think singular: "barrier=horse_stile". There's definitely very little google support for "horse hops". All in favour of barrier=horse_stile? Steve ___ Tagg

Re: [Tagging] Cable distribution cabinet

2010-06-08 Thread Steve Bennett
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 6:59 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > following recent discussions on Talk-DE, this would be power=station, > while the power station (generating station) itself is called > power=generator. At least that's what they wrote. > > This would be the sub_station according to that

Re: [Tagging] Cable distribution cabinet

2010-06-07 Thread Steve Bennett
As has been pointed out before, the power=station / power=sub_station situation is basically a disaster. I think the thing being described here is the same as a "power=sub_station", but really I don't know the best way to proceed to fix this mess. Perhaps deprecate "power=sub_station" completely.

Re: [Tagging] Slag heap

2010-06-07 Thread Steve Bennett
2010/6/7 y...@o2.pl : > Hi, I'm searching for tag for a slag heap (strictly, something that > Germans call Halde): > > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Salzberg_kaliwerk_wintershall_heringen.jpg > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Terril_Loos-en-Gohelle_2006-01-14.jpg > http://commons.wi

Re: [Tagging] difference between park and garden

2010-06-06 Thread Steve Bennett
Fwiw, I tag them all "park". Is there any legal difference? It occurs to me that many gardens have fences and gates and are only open during certain hours, but I don't know if that's a general property. Note that most of the parks in central Melbourne are called "garden" (Flagstaff Gardens, Treasu

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - traffic jam warning

2010-05-31 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 6:31 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: > can you explain how linking of 2 databases can be achieved in a > consistent and permanent way without having the data in OSM? By "permanent" you presumably mean "stable". Nodes and ways have IDs, so it doesn't seem like a difficult pr

Re: [Tagging] religion

2010-05-31 Thread Steve Bennett
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 6:04 PM, Simone Saviolo wrote: > Would you tag the Parthenon as religion=ancient_greek or something > like that? IMHO, the religion tag should only be used for what is > actively used for religious ceremonies. No, that would be the amenity=place_of_worship tag. religion= s

Re: [Tagging] Highway=raceway, leisure=track

2010-05-31 Thread Steve Bennett
Thanks, I've made notes on the wiki. On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 4:56 PM, John Smith wrote: > On 31 May 2010 16:47, Steve Bennett wrote: >> What's the difference? Neither is documented in the wiki? > > highway=raceway while not documented properly shows a picture o

[Tagging] Highway=raceway, leisure=track

2010-05-30 Thread Steve Bennett
What's the difference? Neither is documented in the wiki? Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - traffic jam warning

2010-05-30 Thread Steve Bennett
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Martin Bober wrote: > Hi folks, > > I have filled in a proposal for a tag indicating a high risk of traffic jams > and > would like to hear your comments. > > Summary: > This tag marks roads or intersections with a high risk of traffic jams. This > does not indica

[Tagging] What is a marina?

2010-05-28 Thread Steve Bennett
When tagging an area leisure=marina, do you include: - just the area on water - the water and the immediate area around it (ie, slipways, mooring points etc) - facilities like boat storage How do you define the edge of the marina if it's just a series of jetties? Two examples: http://www.openstre

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Orphanage

2010-05-27 Thread Steve Bennett
2010/5/27 y...@o2.pl : > Sounds like a good idea. > > There is also another proposal: residental home > (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Residential_home) > with tagging amenity=residential_home + > residents=childen/veterans/disabled/etc. Maybe we should merge these > proposal

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