Ok, I will use that with the tag for the physical obstructions.
Thanks all for the discussion
August 24, 2020 7:07:08 PM CEST Joseph Eisenberg
wrote:
RE: "Would something like hindrance:target = lying_down or hindrance:target =
sitting be more clear?"
While this is somewhat less ambiguous,
sent from a phone
> On 26. Aug 2020, at 00:37, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>
> If we put access=no on a road, we (usually) don't then show if the road is
> physically blocked, or it just has a "No Entry" sign.
actually we do, access is about legal access.
Cheers Martin
On Tue, 25 Aug 2020 at 19:45, Martin Koppenhoefer
wrote:
>
> > On 25. Aug 2020, at 11:02, Niels Elgaard Larsen wrote:
> >
> > Better. But why not sitting=no, etc
>
> it is not clear whether you cannot physically sit there or whether it is
> legally forbidden
>
Does it really matter?
If we put
sent from a phone
> On 25. Aug 2020, at 11:02, Niels Elgaard Larsen wrote:
>
> Better. But why not sitting=no, etc
it is not clear whether you cannot physically sit there or whether it is
legally forbidden
Cheers Martin
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Joseph Eisenberg:
> RE: "Would something like hindrance:target = lying_down or hindrance:target =
> sitting
> be more clear?"
I do no like negative formulations.
>
> While this is somewhat less ambiguous, it looks and sounds quite strange in
> English,
> and it's quite long.
>
> How about
RE: "Would something like hindrance:target = lying_down or hindrance:target
= sitting be more clear?"
While this is somewhat less ambiguous, it looks and sounds quite strange in
English, and it's quite long.
How about "lying_down=obstructed", "sitting=obstructed",
"skating=obstructed" or
Just to clarify an important point. The hostile_architecture key was suggested
as a main/category tag to go along with specific keys (lying_hindrance,
sitting_hindrance).
Used alone, I agree that it would be very vague and could be difficult to
verify. I would say to only use it in combination
sent from a phone
> On 24. Aug 2020, at 15:46, Vucod via Tagging
> wrote:
>
> length and width keys on benches were refused because they judged that it was
> going too much into details
I don’t know who “they” are, but “they” can well stick with this opinion and
not map these properties
Hi
Vucod via Tagging skrev: (24 augusti 2020 15:43:37
CEST)
>Just to clarify an important point. The hostile_architecture key was
>suggested as a main/category tag to go along with specific keys
>(lying_hindrance, sitting_hindrance).
>Used alone, I agree that it would be very vague and could be
Wouln't it be more osm to describe visible and verifiable attributes of
features, rather than architectural design principles or supposed intentions?
Mvg Peter Elderson
> Op 24 aug. 2020 om 12:11 heeft Florian Lohoff het volgende
> geschreven:
>
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 01:22:38PM -0700,
On Sun, Aug 23, 2020 at 01:22:38PM -0700, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
> The term "hostile architecture" is too vague. As an alternative
> "anti-homeless" is also not precise enough. We are getting closer with the
> initial suggestion that the feature is to prevent lying down, sleeping or
> sitting.
Hi,
On 24.08.20 02:46, Paul Allen wrote:
> I'm not seriously suggesting we map them this way but speed bumps are
> technically hostile architecture. :)
As are cattle grids if you're a cow!
Bye
Frederik
--
Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
On Mon, 24 Aug 2020, 01:48 Paul Allen, wrote:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 at 01:27, Martin Koppenhoefer
> wrote:
>
>>
>> > On 24. Aug 2020, at 01:45, Paul Allen wrote:
>> >
>> > It's hostile to public urinators.
>>
>> agreed, but isn’t publicly urinating an offense anyway?
>
>
> In most
sent from a phone
> On 24. Aug 2020, at 02:48, Paul Allen wrote:
>
> I'm not seriously suggesting we map them this way but speed bumps are
> technically hostile architecture. :)
If we would go this way this should probably be hostile_engineering
:)
Cheers Martin
On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 at 01:27, Martin Koppenhoefer
wrote:
>
> > On 24. Aug 2020, at 01:45, Paul Allen wrote:
> >
> > It's hostile to public urinators.
>
> agreed, but isn’t publicly urinating an offense anyway?
In most jurisdictions. So is sleeping on a public bench in many
jurisdictions.
On 8/23/20 19:43, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
> One of our local councillors came up with her own way of deterring
> teenagers from hanging around the bus stops in the CBD, & also homeless
> from sleeping there overnight.
>
> She had vandalism-proof speakers installed over them, that play
>
On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 at 09:43, Paul Allen wrote:
>
> Either we come up with very specific tags for ever particular variation
> of every type of object that could be used to deter sleeping (or
> skateboarding, or urination, or whatever) or we come up with a
> a general tag
sent from a phone
> On 24. Aug 2020, at 01:45, Paul Allen wrote:
>
> It's hostile to public urinators.
agreed, but isn’t publicly urinating an offense anyway? Speed limits are also
hostile to people who like to drive fast for example.
Cheers Martin
Aug 24, 2020, 01:41 by pla16...@gmail.com:
> On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 at 00:22, Martin Koppenhoefer <> dieterdre...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> Or benches which are right away designed to not let you even sit
>> comfortably, like the Rome bus stops:
>>
>>
On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 at 00:38, Martin Koppenhoefer
wrote:
>
> great you mention it, also quite common in Rome are inside corners of
> buildings filled with masonry (typically up to 1,5m) so people do not
> urinate (not a recent feature, most look as if they were hundreds of years
> old). And in
On Mon, 24 Aug 2020 at 00:22, Martin Koppenhoefer
wrote:
>
> Or benches which are right away designed to not let you even sit
> comfortably, like the Rome bus stops:
>
>
>
sent from a phone
> On 23. Aug 2020, at 23:39, Joseph Eisenberg
> wrote:
>
> Hostile architecture is also employed to deter skateboarding, littering,
> loitering, and public urination."
>
> There is an example of a 1800s church with a sloped wall, designed to deflect
> urine
great you
sent from a phone
> On 23. Aug 2020, at 23:20, Peter Elderson wrote:
>
> The British really call bench construction "architecture"?
I may be misguided but I believe the term is “urban decor” for these things,
including street lights, bins, planters etc. and yes, it is often designed by
sent from a phone
> On 23. Aug 2020, at 22:24, Joseph Eisenberg
> wrote:
>
> We want to make it clear that lying down or sitting down is not allowed or
> physical obstructed, right?
I think the focus is on physically obstructed, although this is also not very
easy to decide in every
Hi,
Well, in defense of Oliversimmo, we have MANY subjective tags in OSM that
require a second look. Like accessible=yes... accessible to whom? Even if
you’re just assuming accessible to wheelchairs: wheelchair users have such a
wide breadth of preferences, needs, and risks they’re willing to
On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 at 22:20, Peter Elderson wrote:
> The British really call bench construction "architecture"? Amazing.
>
>From the wikipedia article I provided a link to earlier: "Hostile
architecture is
an urban-design strategy that uses elements of the built environment to
purposefully
I understand that it's the normal term for the general concept, but it
includes a large number of things:
"measures include sloped window sills to stop people sitting; benches with
armrests positioned to stop people lying on them, and water sprinklers that
"intermittently come on but aren't
The British really call bench construction "architecture"? Amazing. I can see
this going the same way as village green.
Mvg Peter Elderson
> Op 23 aug. 2020 om 22:59 heeft Andy Townsend het volgende
> geschreven:
>
> On 23/08/2020 21:22, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
>> The term "hostile
On 23/08/2020 21:22, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
The term "hostile architecture" is too vague.
It is the normal British English (at least) description of this stuff.
Best Regards,
Andy
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On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 at 21:24, Joseph Eisenberg
wrote:
The term "hostile architecture" is too vague.
>
However, it is a "term of the art." It's what it's called out in the real
world, so
is likely to be used in the media. As with many phrases in colloquial
English, the sum is greater than the
The term "hostile architecture" is too vague. As an alternative
"anti-homeless" is also not precise enough. We are getting closer with the
initial suggestion that the feature is to prevent lying down, sleeping or
sitting.
However, I think the tags "sitting_hindrance=" and "lying_hindrance" are
On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 at 18:22, Oliver Simmons wrote:
Someone else can probably think of a better suggestion
>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_architecture
--
Paul
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Good point.
By "hostile" I meant against homeless people.
Without the context it would be hard to understand what is meant.
`anti_homeless` maybe?
Someone else can probably think of a better suggestion
On Sun, 23 Aug 2020, 18:01 Martin Koppenhoefer,
wrote:
>
>
> sent from a phone
>
> > On 23.
sent from a phone
> On 23. Aug 2020, at 18:40, Oliver Simmons wrote:
>
> I agree with the `hostile_architecture=` tag as this could be expanded on in
> the future
I can see the point, but it is probably not verifiable in many instances (it
could be seen as hostile but it could have other
On Sun, 23 Aug 2020, 17:38 Oliver Simmons, wrote:
> I agree with the `hostile_architecture=` tag as this could be expanded on
> in the future.
>
> Other types of common hostile architecture I know of:
> - sloped bus stop benches
> - spikes on the floor
> - bike racks in annoying places
>
> I
I agree with the `hostile_architecture=` tag as this could be expanded on
in the future.
Other types of common hostile architecture I know of:
- sloped bus stop benches
- spikes on the floor
- bike racks in annoying places
I propose `hostile_architecture=spikes`
and `hostile_architecture=yes`
"length was refused as an official key for bench"
Why? Is there some valid reason, or maybe it was part of proposal that
failed for other reasons.
lying_hindrance=yes - there are some cases where it is fairly obvious, but
there are some borderline situations (like quite short benches that could
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