Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

sent from a phone > On 8. Dec 2019, at 16:13, Volker Schmidt wrote: > > : (Unilever-owned) GROM produce their ice cream concentrate in a factory and > then convert that stuff locally into ice-cream for which people queue.("Un > gelato come una volta"). > Is that industrial or "artigianale"

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

We all tend to think in pre-established categories. Another one: " The distinction that I find important is between ice cream made in an artisanal fashion (like cakes, pastry) vs. ice cream that is produced industrially," We have a famous (at least expensive) hybrid between the two her in Italy:

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

11 Nov 2019, 12:04 by dieterdre...@gmail.com: > Am Mo., 11. Nov. 2019 um 11:55 Uhr schrieb Mateusz Konieczny <> > matkoni...@tutanota.com> >: > >> Again, is there some difference >> in use by general population of mappers? >> >> I am not looking for differences in use >> wanted by specific

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

Am Di., 12. Nov. 2019 um 14:15 Uhr schrieb Paul Allen : > from the description, light meals aren’t a hard requirement, or it could >> be seen as satisfied by selling cakes (or ice cream cups in the case of >> cuisine =ice_cream): >> > > I suspect that, over the years, people have forced things

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

On Tue, 2019-11-12 at 18:04 +0100, Markus wrote: > > I wouldn't look for a café if i were hungry. Instead i would look for > a restaurant, pub or fast food booth. > > In mainland Europe i expect from a café that i can drink a coffee > there and maybe have a sweet snack. While some also serve

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 at 14:15, Paul Allen wrote: > > On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 at 00:23, Martin Koppenhoefer > wrote: >> >> from the description, light meals aren’t a hard requirement, or it could be >> seen as satisfied by selling cakes (or ice cream cups in the case of cuisine >> =ice_cream): > >

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

On Tue, 12 Nov 2019 at 00:23, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > On 11. Nov 2019, at 14:38, Paul Allen wrote: > > For better or worse, shop=cafe is documented as selling beverages AND > light meals, and this > is how it is understood in British English. > > > from the description, light meals

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

sent from a phone > On 11. Nov 2019, at 14:38, Paul Allen wrote: > > For better or worse, shop=cafe is documented as selling beverages AND light > meals, and this > is how it is understood in British English. from the description, light meals aren’t a hard requirement, or it could be seen

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

sent from a phone > On 11. Nov 2019, at 14:38, Paul Allen wrote: > > I think these are important distinctions: consume on the premises or off > the premises. They are different operating models and customers have > different > expectations. indeed, and you can buy alcohol in a lot of

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 at 11:55, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > Is there some consistent difference how > this two tags are actually used? Unfortunately i can't answer your question (too little amenity=ice_cream and no shop=ice_cream around where i live), but i just discovered that 349, that's 15.2%,

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

On Mon, 11 Nov 2019 at 09:49, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Note I didn't write a bar cannot have seats, I wrote it isn't a strict > requirement, while it is for pubs I would say. > >From my experiences, seats are normally present in both, the difference between the two being the types of drinks

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

> I have not found non-shops tagged as shop=ice_cream, have you? The example photo on the shop=ice_cream wiki page shows an "ice cream parlour", which I would not call a shop. Previously it was claimed that a shop has to be in a building rather than in a booth, stand or van. However, I don't

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

Am Mo., 11. Nov. 2019 um 11:55 Uhr schrieb Mateusz Konieczny < matkoni...@tutanota.com>: > Again, is there some difference > in use by general population of mappers? > > I am not looking for differences in use > wanted by specific mappers active here. > > I am not looking for how > "place selling

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

Again, is there some difference in use by general population of mappers? I am not looking for differences in use wanted by specific mappers active here. I am not looking for how  "place selling ice cream" may be split into smaller groups. I am not looking for purely theoretical implications of

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

I would definitely dispute the sentence that was now added to shop=ice_cream: "exact duplicate of amenity=ice_cream", as it describes only a part of what amenity=ice_cream can cover. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

Am Mo., 11. Nov. 2019 um 03:19 Uhr schrieb Joseph Eisenberg < joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com>: > [is there a] "consistent difference between shop=ice_cream and > amenity=ice_cream in real tagging by mappers", or not? > > It does not appear that these tags are consistently used in a > different way,

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

Am Mo., 11. Nov. 2019 um 01:10 Uhr schrieb Paul Allen : > On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 at 23:51, Martin Koppenhoefer > wrote: > >> >> > On 10. Nov 2019, at 21:57, Paul Allen wrote: >> > >> > I also see a clear parallel between amenity=bar and amenity=ice_cream: >> go in, sit down >> > and consume (there

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

Since this discussion is about documented tags which are currently in use, rather than discussing a proposal for a new way of tagging, It would be helpful to focus on the way things are in reality. As Mateusz Konieczny asked: [is there a] "consistent difference between shop=ice_cream and

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 at 23:51, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > > On 10. Nov 2019, at 21:57, Paul Allen wrote: > > > > I also see a clear parallel between amenity=bar and amenity=ice_cream: > go in, sit down > > and consume (there may be an option to purchase to take out). > > I would not see

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

sent from a phone > On 10. Nov 2019, at 21:57, Paul Allen wrote: > > I also see a clear parallel between amenity=bar and amenity=ice_cream: go in, > sit down > and consume (there may be an option to purchase to take out). I would not see sitting as a requirement for any of these two. It is

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

sent from a phone > On 10. Nov 2019, at 18:33, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > Are you claiming that there is some consistent difference between > shop=ice_cream and amenity=ice_cream in real tagging by mappers? I have no idea about consistent use of these tags, but I am claiming they are not

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

sent from a phone > On 10. Nov 2019, at 15:57, Markus wrote: > > Are there really shops that only or mainly sell packaged ice cream for > taking home? it doesn’t say anything about “packaged” and I would rather expect an ice cream shop not to sell packaged ice cream. Ice cream (in Italy)

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 at 19:42, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: I agree here that there is difference between ice cream kiosk and ice cream > parlour. > We agree on that, then. Even though it's possible that in US usage an ice cream parlour may also include a kiosk (Wikipedia says it does, but

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

10 Nov 2019, 18:50 by pla16...@gmail.com: > On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 at 17:33, Mateusz Konieczny <> matkoni...@tutanota.com > > > wrote: > > >> Are you claiming that there is some consistent difference between >> shop=ice_cream and amenity=ice_cream in real tagging

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 at 18:21, Paul Allen wrote: > >> However, shop=ice_cream says to take home, not to take away. > > > Then the wiki is unclear and misleading. And it looks like somebody has > taken an > alread-misleading page, decided it was a synonym of amenity=ice_cream and then > made it

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 at 17:33, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: Are you claiming that there is some consistent difference between > shop=ice_cream and amenity=ice_cream in real tagging by mappers? > I would hesitate to claim that mappers tag anything consistently. What I am claiming is that there are

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

On Sun, 2019-11-10 at 17:20 +, Paul Allen wrote: > "Take home" and "take away" share an important property: "not for > consumption on > the premises." Whether you take the stuff home or take it off the > premises and > consume it nearby, you are not consuming it on the premises. > > Try a

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

10 Nov 2019, 18:20 by pla16...@gmail.com: > On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 at 16:45, Markus <> selfishseaho...@gmail.com > > > wrote: > >> >> However, shop=ice_cream says to take home, not to take away. >> > > Then the wiki is unclear and misleading.  And it looks like

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 at 16:45, Markus wrote: > > However, shop=ice_cream says to take home, not to take away. Then the wiki is unclear and misleading. And it looks like somebody has taken an alread-misleading page, decided it was a synonym of amenity=ice_cream and then made it even more

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 at 17:56, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: > > nitpick: tag is without underscore > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:takeaway Sorry and thanks for correcting me! Markus ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

10 Nov 2019, 17:44 by selfishseaho...@gmail.com: > On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 at 17:00, Paul Allen wrote: > >> >> Me neither. But that's a bit of a false dichotomy. It isn't just eat on >> premises or take home. >> There's also take away. As in an ice cream van on a fixed pitch. Rather >>

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 at 16:31, Philip Barnes wrote: > > I was covering both take away kiosks and ice cream parlours in probably > too few words. > > Take away is far more common in my experience. > I've never encountered an ice cream parlour in real life, but I've seen them in US TV shows. So

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 at 17:00, Paul Allen wrote: > > Me neither. But that's a bit of a false dichotomy. It isn't just eat on > premises or take home. > There's also take away. As in an ice cream van on a fixed pitch. Rather > common at the > seaside. Or a kiosk selling only, or mainly,. ice

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

On Sun, 2019-11-10 at 15:57 +, Paul Allen wrote: > On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 at 15:30, Philip Barnes > wrote: > > > I have never come across somewhere only selling Ice-cream to take > > home. > > Me neither. But that's a bit of a false dichotomy. It isn't just > eat on premises or take home. >

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 at 15:30, Philip Barnes wrote: I have never come across somewhere only selling Ice-cream to take home. > Me neither. But that's a bit of a false dichotomy. It isn't just eat on premises or take home. There's also take away. As in an ice cream van on a fixed pitch. Rather

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

On Sun, 2019-11-10 at 15:56 +0100, Markus wrote: > Strangely enough, the page > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dice_cream > > says that shop=ice_cream is "for places selling ice cream to take > home", but shows an image of an ice cream parlour. > > Are there really shops that

Re: [Tagging] shop=ice_cream vs amenity=ice_cream and OSM Wiki vs tagging

Strangely enough, the page https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dice_cream says that shop=ice_cream is "for places selling ice cream to take home", but shows an image of an ice cream parlour. Are there really shops that only or mainly sell packaged ice cream for taking home?