Re: [Tagging] Hot springs
That's true - this is a specific pool, and would be an amenity offered, usually to the public next to the sidewalk out front ( usually anyone walking by can stick them in) not an overall feature - like a drinking fountain. Sometimes they are inside, in a common waiting area, so if you decide not to bathe with friends, you can at least soak your feet. Perhaps amenity=foot bath? Maybe it's not best for bath type then. I dunno. Javbw PS @dieterdreist - I found the mailing list! I'll be asking about that civic land use shortly. Sent from my iPad > On Mar 8, 2014, at 4:23 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer > wrote: > > > 2014-03-07 17:29 GMT+01:00 Satoshi IIDA : >> * bath:type = foot_bath >> ** foot_bath is usually are a (free) service offered in the front of the >> onsen to passerbys. It's very shallow, and surrounded by seats, it's like a >> big sink, rather than a pool. "Ashiyu" in Japanese. >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashiyu > > > not sure if this is really a bath type, my suggestion would be to make it a > pool:type or something similar, as it seems to be not refering to the complex > as a whole (what I think onsen is) but to a part of an onsen, i.e. a specific > pool inside the onsen? Or maybe I got you wrong? bath:type=foot_bath to me > suggests a foot_bath only place... > > cheers, > Martin > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Hot springs
2014-03-07 17:29 GMT+01:00 Satoshi IIDA : > * bath:type = foot_bath > ** foot_bath is usually are a (free) service offered in the front of the > onsen to passerbys. It's very shallow, and surrounded by seats, it's like a > big sink, rather than a pool. "Ashiyu" in Japanese. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashiyu > not sure if this is really a bath type, my suggestion would be to make it a pool:type or something similar, as it seems to be not refering to the complex as a whole (what I think onsen is) but to a part of an onsen, i.e. a specific pool inside the onsen? Or maybe I got you wrong? bath:type=foot_bath to me suggests a foot_bath only place... cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Hot springs
Also, as was pointed out earlier in the thread, some onsen are not associated with hot springs, but have hot sand instead. Original Message From: Martin Koppenhoefer Sent: March 7, 2014 7:34:57 AM CST To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools" Subject: Re: [Tagging] Hot springs 2014-03-07 13:12 GMT+01:00 johnw : > well hot diggity-dog. There we go. +1, in your case I think I'd most probably use "onsen" to have a very specific tag for the very specific feature you are trying to map, something like "hot spring bath" is not as specific as "onsen" (e.g. also refering to style and the legal requirements you laid out above: "The water of "onsen" bathing amenity is from always natural. And in precise, it is upper 25'C and must have mineral element. (by law)"), an onsen is a japanese bath, and this is IMHO worth pointing out, just as a restaurant will have typically warm meals, but there is still a big difference between e.g. japanese and say russian kitchen. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Hot springs
Thx all! I'm very surprised Onsen is in the Oxford Dictionary :) So I would add following description table and some samples to "amenity=public_bath" page in next a few days. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dpublic_bath * bath:type = onsen ** amenity has bathing amenity, and the waters from natural hot spring. Common in Japan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onsen * bath:type = foot_bath ** foot_bath is usually are a (free) service offered in the front of the onsen to passerbys. It's very shallow, and surrounded by seats, it's like a big sink, rather than a pool. "Ashiyu" in Japanese. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashiyu * bath:open_air = [yes|no] ** bathing amenity which has "open air" bath. "Roten buro" in Japanese. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Onsen_in_Nachikatsuura,_Japan.jpg > Sento is basically a bath from heated water, right? so basically amenity=public_bath, right? Yes. so I'll make a comment for it as samples. 2014-03-07 22:34 GMT+09:00 Martin Koppenhoefer : > > 2014-03-07 13:12 GMT+01:00 johnw : > > well hot diggity-dog. There we go. > > > > +1, > in your case I think I'd most probably use "onsen" to have a very > specific tag for the very specific feature you are trying to map, something > like "hot spring bath" is not as specific as "onsen" (e.g. also refering to > style and the legal requirements you laid out above: "The water of "onsen" > bathing amenity is from always natural. And in precise, it is upper 25'C > and must have mineral element. (by law)"), an onsen is a japanese bath, and > this is IMHO worth pointing out, just as a restaurant will have typically > warm meals, but there is still a big difference between e.g. japanese and > say russian kitchen. > > cheers, > Martin > > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > > -- Satoshi IIDA mail: nyamp...@gmail.com twitter: @nyampire ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - drinkable
Le 07/03/2014 10:33, Rudolf Martin a écrit : I'm thinking about transfering my proposal "drinkable" to a new proposal "drinking_water". The proposed values can be the same. +1 This means migration of "drinkable=yes/no" to "drinking_water=yes/no". The new tagging-scheme use one tag for standalone features that can provide drinking water and to indicate whether water is drinkable for humans. It don't include a legal relevance. But the question remains of who says that the water is drinkable. Following the discussions we have add on the French ML, the French community will surely keep in mind the legal aspect. Then "drinkable=" will be deprecated. +1 -- FrViPofm ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fixing wrong opening_hours automatically
On 3/7/14 7:03 AM, Dan S wrote: > > I'm sorry but if it is description-like, then it is free text and > shouldn't be auto-standardised in the manner you propose. You need to > decide if you think it is description-like (== free text, local > language) or formalised (==set of possible labels, british english). > Opening hours really needs to be parseable, it contains data that is of value to data consumers (like routing software.) for example, the opening_hours format gets used for turn restrictions that have times attached and for seasonal roads. treating it as free form would be a disaster. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS & IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Hot springs
2014-03-07 13:12 GMT+01:00 johnw : > well hot diggity-dog. There we go. +1, in your case I think I'd most probably use "onsen" to have a very specific tag for the very specific feature you are trying to map, something like "hot spring bath" is not as specific as "onsen" (e.g. also refering to style and the legal requirements you laid out above: "The water of "onsen" bathing amenity is from always natural. And in precise, it is upper 25'C and must have mineral element. (by law)"), an onsen is a japanese bath, and this is IMHO worth pointing out, just as a restaurant will have typically warm meals, but there is still a big difference between e.g. japanese and say russian kitchen. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Hot springs
>> > 'Onsen' is in the Oxford Dictionary, defined as 'In Japan: a hot spring, esp. > one thought to have medicinal properties; a hot spring resort'. well hot diggity-dog. There we go. Javbw ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Fixing wrong opening_hours automatically
2014-03-06 17:13 GMT+00:00 Robin `ypid` Schneider : > On 06.03.2014 10:47, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: >> 2014-03-05 21:25 GMT+01:00 Robin `ypid` Schneider : >> >>> There is no key öffnungszeiten, but yes it is only about the key >>> opening_hours. >>> As said before I am not going to change the meaning. The value '"nach >>> Vereinbarung"' is used more often so that's another reason for that. >>> >> >> >> I am generally opposing german language values in formalized tags *), >> especially where a generic fact is expressed that has a corresponding word >> in English like here. For this reason I am opposing that you normalize >> those tags as it would distort the actual tagging numbers and next time >> you'd be able to say that there are even more of these values, all unified >> in the same clean format ;-) > > In general I agree with you. But I see the comment in opening_hours more like > the description key which can (or should) be in local language. I'm sorry but if it is description-like, then it is free text and shouldn't be auto-standardised in the manner you propose. You need to decide if you think it is description-like (== free text, local language) or formalised (==set of possible labels, british english). Dan ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Hot springs
On 07/03/2014 08:37, johnw wrote: But I don't know the correct word to represent "Onsen" in English. Is "[something]=hot_spring_bath" better? XX=hot_spring_bath would be perfect. I think, "Onsen" is the very unique word to represent "bathing amenity, that water from natural hot spring". So, I would like to hear the situations of other countries. There is no single word in english that means onsen, so it would have to be several words at once. But there are other words that have been adopted (wadi, for example) to succinctly describe something that would need multiple words in english, so maybe they'll adopt the Japanese word here. 'Onsen' is in the Oxford Dictionary, defined as 'In Japan: a hot spring, esp. one thought to have medicinal properties; a hot spring resort'. -- Steve ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - drinkable
I'm thinking about transfering my proposal "drinkable" to a new proposal "drinking_water". The proposed values can be the same. This means migration of "drinkable=yes/no" to "drinking_water=yes/no". The new tagging-scheme use one tag for standalone features that can provide drinking water and to indicate whether water is drinkable for humans. It don't include a legal relevance. Then "drinkable=" will be deprecated. Up to now there is no approval and no wiki-page about "drinkable". So we mustn't change a definition-page in the wiki. All changes refers to elements that already contains a hint to "drinkable=". Up to now there is no approval about "drinking_water". We mustn't change an approved definition. I don't prefer "potable", because it is not in common use in OSM. What do you think? Going on with the existing scheme or making a new one? Rudolf ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Hot springs
On Fri, Mar 07, 2014 at 12:38:14AM -0800, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: > Just saying: > > Tradition among both cavers and hot springs bathing enthusiasts is to > keep quiet about locations, > passing the word though caving societies and word of mouth. Why? > Because caves and hot springs > that become well known get trashed, crowded, muggled, and/or shut down > due to the above. yes, quite often am I wondering whether I should add a particular little known gem to OSM for this exact reason. For the foreseeable future I don't think OSM is likely to be a major factor trashing them, other media are quicker spreading the news and lists of POIs. With an OSM map, I don't want to be the last one knowing;) Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Hot springs
On Fri, Mar 07, 2014 at 05:45:51PM +0900, johnw wrote: > > On Mar 7, 2014, at 5:38 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: > > > I know of a number of each type of facility that I won't be adding to > > the map > > > This is for an amenity for a building - like Sauna. not a natural=hot_spring > (which is what you are talking about), so cool your waters. no longer I have changed it to natural_hot_spring and it is supposed to be the hole where hot water exits, along with a tag describing the water characteristic. We have many other ways to map amenitie.s and tourist attractions so that these are merely listed in the proposal Richard ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Hot springs
On Mar 7, 2014, at 5:38 PM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote: > I know of a number of each type of facility that I won't be adding to > the map This is for an amenity for a building - like Sauna. not a natural=hot_spring (which is what you are talking about), so cool your waters. Searching the word "onsen" in Japanese returned 58,000 pins in Japan - It's no secret. Javbw ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Hot springs
Just saying: Tradition among both cavers and hot springs bathing enthusiasts is to keep quiet about locations, passing the word though caving societies and word of mouth. Why? Because caves and hot springs that become well known get trashed, crowded, muggled, and/or shut down due to the above. I know of a number of each type of facility that I won't be adding to the map. I can't stop anyone from mapping them, but unfortunately it would be a shame if osm contributed to their demise. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Hot springs
> But I don't know the correct word to represent "Onsen" in English. > Is "[something]=hot_spring_bath" better? XX=hot_spring_bath would be perfect. > I think, "Onsen" is the very unique word to represent "bathing amenity, that > water from natural hot spring". > So, I would like to hear the situations of other countries. There is no single word in english that means onsen, so it would have to be several words at once. But there are other words that have been adopted (wadi, for example) to succinctly describe something that would need multiple words in english, so maybe they'll adopt the Japanese word here. In the US, there are actually several onsens setup by Japanese people for Japanese tourists, but Americans don't know they exist. There are natural hot baths and springs (Murrieta Hot Springs in East Los Angeles, for example) but there is absolutely no culture of public hot spring bathing, nor locations easily available in the US, as opposed to a sauna/steam room or spa resorts that can be found in every major city. > > > Martin > > amenity=public_bath + subtag > Thank you. It seems nice approach with no conflict to existing scheme. > So detailed possible values are ... > > 1. bath:type = * > * [onsen or hot_spring_bath] > * [sento or not_from_spring] > * [foot_bath] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashiyu) Sento is basically a bath from heated water, right? so basically amenity=public_bath, right? For others reading this: Noting foot_bath is good, as they are usually are a (free) service offered in the front of the onsen to passerbys - a way to try the water without going inside, or in public areas. it's very shallow, and surrounded by seats, it's like a big sink, rather than a pool. Locating them (there's usually several in a hot spring resort town) is great for finding them when walking around a big resort area like Kusatsu or Ikaho. They are common throughout Japan, and there are several famous ones as well (like the one next to the hot springs in the center of town in Kusatsu). > (I'm not a native speaker, suggestions for more proper expression are > welcome!) I'm just learning Japanese here in Gunma. > > And, to represent existent of "Roten buro(open air bathing amenity)" or not, > what about to use following tag? > Like the key:open_air. (Although only 3 use.) > http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/open_air > 2. bath:open_air = [yes|no] Nice to tag open_air too. I went to an onsen in Toyama near the beach, and I was surprised there was no open air bath. having it tagged would be great. I hope that people here recognize how common Onsens are in Japan, How essential they are to domestic and international tourists, and they are distinct compared to any other bathing amenity (like a sauna). Javbw > > Cheers ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
