Re: [Tagging] Non Proposed Features

2010-08-30 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/8/29 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: culvert=yes is ambiguous: does it refer to the object on top or underneath? our tags refer to the object they are associated with. Simple like that, isn't it? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list

Re: [Tagging] No proposal labeling

2010-08-30 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
Am 30. August 2010 08:08 schrieb Matthias Meißer dig...@arcor.de:  multitude of options to choose from Yes ok but the problem with this options is that the brainstorming process is so distributed and for every channel you need logon etc. For me for example I dont like mailinglists that much

Re: [Tagging] Non Proposed Features

2010-08-30 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/8/30 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 5:47 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/8/29 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: culvert=yes is ambiguous: does it refer to the object on top or underneath? our tags refer to the object

Re: [Tagging] Relation for saying x is attached to y?

2010-08-30 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/8/30 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: Yep. Polygon collisions can also be accidental, like when two objects from slightly different sources (say one gps, one aerial imagery) are near each other. I'd consider this mapping failure actually. More than believing in gps- and

Re: [Tagging] Relation for saying x is attached to y?

2010-08-30 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/8/30 M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com: - these objects express the same thing as that object but in more detail (eg, one line representing a pair or more of train lines) in this actual example you don't need relations but can do as with streets (lanes-tag). I'm not sure

Re: [Tagging] now i'm completely stumped...

2010-08-30 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/8/30 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 3:29 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: Weight Watchers? Dale Carnegie Training? Arthur Murray Dance Studio? OSM is not setting out to build an ontology of business types. Does that help? why not? OSM is

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-dev] Extracting national boundaries

2010-08-30 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/8/30 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Colin Smale colin.sm...@xs4all.nl wrote: But France and Slovakia for example don't seem to have a single relation as a starting point. There is the one for France (land_area):

Re: [Tagging] Non Proposed Features

2010-08-30 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/8/30 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 9:08 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Can you show me the example? I don't understand structure and I would like to know, which kind of way it is (what are the other tags?). http

Re: [Tagging] sidewalks

2010-08-30 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/8/30 Anthony o...@inbox.org: The definition you quoted said: way or path. In the aerial images posted here there was neither of them. If was just grass. No way. I'm not sure which aerial you're referring, but I also don't see why a strip of grass wouldn't qualify as a way or path.

Re: [Tagging] sidewalks

2010-08-31 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/8/31 Anthony o...@inbox.org: Huh?  You realize this is the same location as your aerial, right? The aerial which you said showed no footway, and the google street view which you say does have the same lat/lon. yes, you can see that arthur st/wastell ct. in the east has an informal

Re: [Tagging] Non Proposed Features

2010-08-31 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/8/31 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: Oops it's not lost. It's on the waterway=river and waterway=stream wiki pages. So how do you specify that (a) you mapped a waterway but don't know the direction of flow, (b) it's a stagnant channel with no real flow, or (c) it's an artificial

Re: [Tagging] Relation for saying x is attached to y?

2010-08-31 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/8/31 Tom Chance t...@acrewoods.net: Based on this discussion, it seems that the best advice to put on my proposal for power generators is: - use site relations where the power=generator objects don't obviously overlap with the buildings they relate to, particularly where you are dealing

Re: [Tagging] Waterway direction

2010-08-31 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/8/31 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 1:11 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/8/31 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: Adding a oneway tag explicitly says that it flows that way. no, according to the oneway-definition in the wiki

Re: [Tagging] Waterway direction

2010-09-01 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/1 Anthony o...@inbox.org: Couldn't incline=up/incline=down work for waterways too? Then incline=down could be default, and incline=unknown could be added where the incline is unknown. This is not always true, think about culverts: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:D%C3%BCker.jpg

Re: [Tagging] Waterway direction

2010-09-01 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/1 Anthony o...@inbox.org: honestly, I can't figure out what that is or how it applies. I don't know how you call this in English (but probably it is called culvert), this is a closed tube for water which goes down on one side of the obstacle (e.g. road), the horizontally under it and up

Re: [Tagging] Using route=road to group the segments of a street (was: Re: Reasons for associatedStreet?)

2010-09-01 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/1 Elena of Valhalla elena.valha...@gmail.com: On 9/1/10, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: No, I know what you're grouping. It's the why that I'm unsure about. Where's the benefit in this relation? it would be useful to manage common data (e.g. the name) in the relation

Re: [Tagging] Using route=road to group the segments of a street (was: Re: Reasons for associatedStreet?)

2010-09-01 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/1 David Paleino da...@debian.org: On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 05:26:26 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote: But why does this logical unit need to be grouped in a relation? I don't see any benefit to it. The benefit is intrinsic in data organization. +1, e.g. it allows you to download and select

Re: [Tagging] Waterway direction

2010-09-01 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/1 Anthony o...@inbox.org: On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 3:03 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Ah, I see.  But that wouldn't be tagged as a waterway, would it? Why shouldn't it? Because it's not navigable, therefore it's not a waterway.  And because the wiki says

Re: [Tagging] Waterway direction

2010-09-01 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/1 Anthony o...@inbox.org: examples of waterways on that wiki page are open.  A culvert is more like man_made=pipeline, type=drain. yes, but if it is part of a waterway, it would for consistencies sake IMHO be better to keep it there. Above there was an example given about a river that

Re: [Tagging] Relation for saying x is attached to y?

2010-09-02 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/2 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com: On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 1:46 AM, Phil! Gold phi...@pobox.com wrote: There is a proposal for a tracks= tag: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Multiple_Tracks Ok, two points: 1) That's a mechanism for only having a single way, and

Re: [Tagging] Advice on names for disused/abandoned railways?

2010-09-03 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/3 Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net: old_name is documented for other objects. old_operator makes sense instead of operator, too. I don't like old_name or old_operator very much, because what do you do with 2, 3 or more old names/operators? For old names it could be

Re: [Tagging] Advice on names for disused/abandoned railways?

2010-09-03 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/3 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 9:19 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I don't like old_name or old_operator very much, because what do you do with 2, 3 or more old names/operators? For old names it could be name:[1835-1918]=blabla but... I

Re: [Tagging] Using route=road to group the segments of a street (was: Re: Reasons for associatedStreet?)

2010-09-03 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/3 Anthony o...@inbox.org: On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: Split a way and save the change without updating the relation that contains the way. Voila, broken relation. This happens more often than one might think; for example downloading

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Geographic objects

2010-09-03 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/3 Christian H. Bruhn br...@arcor.de: Hi! If we look at the OSM-map (you can take each), there will be missing the name of most of all geographic objects. You will not find the Atlantic Ocean, the Alpes or anything else. I second this. I liked the idea expressed by Martin Simon on

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Homeless Shelter

2010-09-04 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/4 Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com: the building tag is used when no other key would be appropriate for it. no, the building-tag is to describe the building. You can have building=cathedral, building=barn, building=detached_house, building=highrise, but building=fast_food or

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Homeless Shelter

2010-09-04 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/4 Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatra...@gmail.com: a key 'social' does work for homeless_shelter,  are there any other values (that are in other keys) that would fit with this social key? bingo_hall I don't know these well, but I thought they would more belong to leisure? ...

Re: [Tagging] landuse=single family houses/apartments

2010-09-04 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/4 Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de: And AFAIK it's not a good idea to translate every value like you do it here. The translations/languages should only apply to names, not on classes. If your Application wants to use different languages than English, it should use a dictionary

[Tagging] tagging single trees

2010-09-05 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
Many people are tagging single trees, and usually use natural=tree for this. Now there are some voices on the German ML that say, natural=tree is reserved for special trees, and can therefore not be used for ordinary trees. I changed the wiki according to what I perceive actual usage, by changing

Re: [Tagging] tagging single trees

2010-09-06 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/6 Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com: In practice, it seems unlikely that any one will try to tag every tree in a forest It's entirely possible to map every tree in a city. I agree to both of you. For subtagging I think that there is already some documentation in the wiki (not all are

Re: [Tagging] tagging single trees

2010-09-06 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/6 NopMap ekkeh...@gmx.de: Are you seriously pretending that all those are mapped according to your interpretation of the wiki? My guess is that the ones you would think that fit into this definition are less then 1%. No. I say that we don't know how many of them have been used that way

Re: [Tagging] tagging single trees

2010-09-06 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/6 NopMap ekkeh...@gmx.de: - fix the new generic trees in the cities to use denotation=urban - keep the default meaning for trees without denotation as landmarks, compatible with existing definition as you seem to insist I propose to go voting for this. I just don't see the point in

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - power generator rationalisation

2010-09-06 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/6 André Riedel riedel.an...@gmail.com: Fission power plants could use 'clean' uranium 238 or (with a special license) a plutonium uranium mixture (MOX) or Thorium MOX. does this on the other hand suggest I don't need a special license to run my fission reactor in the attic with ordinary

[Tagging] VOTING amenity=ice_cream

2010-09-06 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
I'm following a plead by Federico Cozzi and announce that there is voting going on for the tag amenity=ice_cream. Personally I already opposed this tag in the currently proposed form. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Ice_cream#Voting cheers, Martin

Re: [Tagging] tagging single trees

2010-09-06 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/6 NopMap ekkeh...@gmx.de: I have done a statistical analysis of the distribution of tree nodes in Germany. The result indicates that 4585 trees are actually single trees. (They don't have another tree within 50m). That makes about 15.8 %. Assuming the same rate globally, you'd throw

Re: [Tagging] tagging single trees

2010-09-07 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/7 NopMap ekkeh...@gmx.de: I dont't think so. Considering that 75% of the trees are from only 3 users, they could be quickly fixed. IMHO tagging ordinary trees as non-significant _or_ not lone (which is the wiki definition) is an absurdity. If we cannot agree on tagging special trees in

Re: [Tagging] tagging single trees

2010-09-07 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/7 Anthony o...@inbox.org: On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 11:27 AM, NopMap ekkeh...@gmx.de wrote: Anthony-6 wrote: Where does the 58,000 number come from again? If you scale up the result of the German analysis to the global numbers, you'd get about 59000 individial trees that are intended

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

2010-09-07 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
I already voted yes, but actually agricultural_engines doesn't correspond to Landmaschinen, it might be agricultural_machinery, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agricultural_machinery (but this article actually looks like it was created by a German, maybe someone else can help us). The

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

2010-09-07 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
craft=fashion should be fashion_designer to correpond to the translation, but still this is not a craft. I would put it in office. jeweler is AE ,use jeweller (BE) craft=photo is too generic, there is not explanation given (just questionmarks), and it isn't a craft IMHO. instead of staging I'd

Re: [Tagging] power=tower or pole?

2010-09-07 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/7 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: Or this, where a single pole is made of metal with diagonals: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stork_nest_on_power_mast.jpg nice pictures, but I can't see any pole in it. The thing in the middle is a pole. Again, it's only not a pure pole

Re: [Tagging] power=tower or pole?

2010-09-07 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/7 Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net: ... elaborated tagging, I'd like to see this in the wiki. cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

2010-09-07 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/7 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: craft=mechanic mechanic=[agriculture|marine|automotive] +1, I also thought about this. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] power=tower or pole?

2010-09-07 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/7 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: As an example, I drove past two nearby poles today that carry two lines, one 69 kV (the step between intercity lines and lines on every street) and one below at a lower voltage. One was solid reinforced concrete; the other was (presumably) hollow

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

2010-09-07 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/7 Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de: Am 07.09.2010 18:27, schrieb John Smith: I'd also consider things like hairdresser to be in shop, even though it might be seen as a craft, I'd too regard craft=hairdresser as an uncommon combination. Any votes against removing craft=hairdresser

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

2010-09-07 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/7 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: How many lock smiths actually make something? The ones here sell and install alarm/security systems, cut keys etc... They don't make their own locks... probably that would be better shop=alarm_systems? or burglar_alarm? I think you'll find

Re: [Tagging] power=tower or pole?

2010-09-07 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/7 ed...@billiau.net: no, this is definitely not a pole. Poles have to be solid cylinders, but you might be right that they can be hollow, not sure about the latter. A power pole made of concrete (as used in new south wales, australia, is hollow. It's a material used and

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Homeless Shelter

2010-09-07 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/8 Sean Horgan seanhor...@gmail.com: something similarly named).  How can I get hold of the user kerosin? http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/kerosin cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

2010-09-07 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/7 ed...@billiau.net: This discussion is because 'craft' is not the best English word. there is a WIkipedia-article that is translated in German into Handwerk: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_%28occupation%29 but you can already see by the content and length of the article that it

Re: [Tagging] landuse=single family houses/apartments

2010-09-07 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/8 Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net: At 2010-09-04 09:12, Erik Johansson wrote: I've taken a slightly different approach. I use landuse=residential to outline the entire related area. I then add that way to a relation with role=boundary. I add the various buildings, roads leading

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] Feature Proposal - Voting - Craft

2010-09-08 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/8 Eric Jarvies e...@csl.com.mx: I've never seen a locksmith shoe repair store either :-) there is a big franchise in Germany who offers exactly this: http://www.misterminit.de/ cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Tagging] landuse=single family houses/apartments

2010-09-08 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/8 Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net: At 2010-09-07 20:28, John F. Eldredge wrote: Other arrangements are common as well, such as duplexes (buildings holding two households); the same property owner owns both halves of the building, and the land underneath both; he or she may live

Re: [Tagging] landuse=single family houses/apartments

2010-09-08 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/8 Erik Johansson erjo...@gmail.com: But wikipedia is very vague on this subject so I think it's pretty hard to be able to get good terminology. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_building_types#Residential_Buildings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_tenure have a look here:

Re: [Tagging] tagging single trees

2010-09-08 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/8 Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@googlemail.com: Please: someone write a bot to add landmark=probably to every tree in Germany, -1, please just for the Nürnberg area. and stop this debate. If it's a landmark, then it's worth adding a tag to say so. +1 cheers, Martin

Re: [Tagging] landuse=single family houses/apartments

2010-09-08 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/8 Alan Mintz alan_mintz+...@earthlink.net: above. Seems like these should be drawn as residential buildings and then add POIs for the shops. Of course that's a way to tag them (and it is already done widely in Europe), but when talking about typology they could merit their own type-tag.

Re: [Tagging] landuse=single family houses/apartments

2010-09-08 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/8 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: One point of clarification: mobile home, in US usage, refers to a prefabricated structure that, while it can be towed by a large truck, is too large to be towed by an ordinary car or most (perhaps all) pickup trucks.   Many of them are mobile

Re: [Tagging] power=tower or pole?

2010-09-08 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/8 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: Another complication: all examples but one on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dpole are metal with trusses. It's a pity. What do the English natives say, is mast a good word? Actually I think that pole isn't because it is (language)

Re: [Tagging] power=tower or pole?

2010-09-08 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/8 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: When I get a chance I'm going to compile a table of all the different types I can find. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:NE2/power Does anyone have a type that is

Re: [Tagging] tagging single trees

2010-09-10 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/10 Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de: For the record, I think that the denotation=cluster tag is a bad idea. It's vague, overlaps with the other values of denotation and doesn't add any information that wasn't there before. as I already expressed here: I completely agree. cheers,

[Tagging] tagging towers WAS Re: tall masts supported by guy wires

2010-09-11 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/11 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 5:27 AM, David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.net wrote: What's the preferred way of tagging a mast like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rowridge_from_entrance_gate_200704270010.jpg From memory I had thought it was

Re: [Tagging] tagging towers WAS Re: tall masts supported by guy wires

2010-09-11 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/11 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 11:39 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/9/11 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: It's a guyed tower. a tower is self-supporting, which might be read as contradictory to guys (unless you consider

Re: [Tagging] tagging towers WAS Re: tall masts supported by guy wires

2010-09-11 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/11 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: On 12 September 2010 01:39, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I would like to be able to tag something like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/b/b5/Stundturm_Schaessburg.JPG or this with parametrical values

Re: [Tagging] tagging towers WAS Re: tall masts supported by guywires

2010-09-11 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/11 David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.net: Personally I'd like to see a different top level tag to differentiate between more solid structural towers such as towers http://www.visitingdc.com/images/eiffel-tower-picture.jpg

Re: [Tagging] trees and waterways

2010-09-14 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/13 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: No, that's exactly the same as 'oneway=no' on two-ways roads. When the tag is not present, we assume that the road is two ways. That's it. If it's wrong, then fix it by adding the oneway tag. It is the same for waterways and the direction of the way. If

Re: [Tagging] tall masts supported by guy wires

2010-09-14 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
yes, it should be both (or could be also building=tower instead of yes). cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] tagging government garages

2010-09-15 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/15 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: On 15 September 2010 08:48, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: so depot really sounds ok. So... highway=depot depot=bus|communication|road_works| yes for the subtags, but why highway? cheers, Martin

Re: [Tagging] tagging government garages

2010-09-15 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/15 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: A garage is highway-related, but it isn't a way.  As far as I know, all of the other usages of the highway tag are a road, path, track, motorway, or some other type of way. I agree (the only exception I am aware of is highway=bus_stop on nodes

[Tagging] sneaking in tags in the wiki

2010-09-15 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
Recently I stumbled upon a tag sneaked into the wiki without (AFAIK) any discussion or announcement on this list. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dgive_way Actually we do have a proposal process and if the creator would have used it, there probably wouldn't be such a bad

Re: [Tagging] sneaking in tags in the wiki

2010-09-15 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/15 Pieren pier...@gmail.com: On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 3:59 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: There are no indications on how to use this (on a node part of the highway or beside it). Why is this a highway-tag? Consistent with the very similar tag highway=stop

Re: [Tagging] sneaking in tags in the wiki

2010-09-15 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
Am 15. September 2010 19:53 schrieb Matthias Meißer dig...@arcor.de: Hi Martin, you spot exactly the point. There are a few tags in different tagging pages that have one of this: no discussion, not wellknown, unvoted the problem is, that until they fit into our common logics they are quite

Re: [Tagging] sneaking in tags in the wiki

2010-09-15 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/15 Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net: I would have put 'craft' under industrial, and then used 'trade' but craft is too far processed to consider a complete alternative. this might be a cultural difference, but IMHO craft is the mere opposite of industrial cheers, Martin

Re: [Tagging] sneaking in tags in the wiki

2010-09-15 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/15 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:59 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: Recently I stumbled upon a tag sneaked into the wiki without (AFAIK) any discussion or announcement on this list. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway

Re: [Tagging] sneaking in tags in the wiki

2010-09-16 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/15 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: On 16 September 2010 06:52, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: this might be a cultural difference, but IMHO craft is the mere opposite of industrial It's somewhere between hobby and industrial... It is not industrial, because

Re: [Tagging] sneaking in tags in the wiki

2010-09-16 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/16 Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com:  On 15/09/2010 21:53, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: of course stop is also bad. traffic signals is bad as well. Err... Why? because it doesn't work well. It is a simplistic approximation to indicate that a crossing is controlled by traffic lights

Re: [Tagging] sneaking in tags in the wiki

2010-09-16 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
another example for sneaking in tags is IMHO http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fuel:electricity with electricity not being fuel and actually IMHO not being helpful to be used in conjunction with petrol stations (amenity=fuel). Why don't we use charging station or something else for these?

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental

2010-09-16 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/16 Jonas Stein n...@jonasstein.de: You can rent a lot of things. Today (2010-08-16) there is a different approach for each thing you can rent.    * car    * bicycle    * boat All have common keys like operator and so on. They only differ in the item you can rent. This proposal

Re: [Tagging] sneaking in tags in the wiki

2010-09-16 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/16 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: You made this point exactly, you claim it should be charging station based on the assumption these locations only sell electricity, but do you know that for a fact? yes, I know that for a fact as of now and for the locations I know of. This

Re: [Tagging] sneaking in tags in the wiki

2010-09-16 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/16 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: 2010/9/17 Matthias Meißer dig...@arcor.de: If we 'allow' it to one user, we have to allow it everybody. How should this anarchy work fine? How should it guide newbies to point out what are the important and approved tags (for now)? At present I

Re: [Tagging] sneaking in tags in the wiki

2010-09-16 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/16 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: Regardless of descriptions, do you agree that there is disputes over the key/value pairs? yes, and this would be the same with numbers, shifted to the descriptions, and there would be the same disputes for the descriptions, especially if they are

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental

2010-09-16 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/16 André Riedel riedel.an...@gmail.com: Selling cars and sometimes letting of cars: shop=car rental=yes selling cars and renting motorbikes. shop=car rental=yes? Better use the syntax of the proposal: selling cars and letting of cars: shop=car rental=car selling only few ski

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental

2010-09-17 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/17 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com: I won't use shop or rental with yes/no because it is against the convention. I don't know which convention you are talking about, as there is none today in that regard. there is the convention for shop: shop=shop category yes/no are no

Re: [Tagging] How to start?

2010-09-17 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
I also found recently information attached to a bridge (in a more technical and less representative way), actually a really small pedestrian bridge: http://www.23hq.com/dieterdreist/photo/5953091 http://www.23hq.com/dieterdreist/photo/5953084 Sorry that they are hard to read due to reallife

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - rental

2010-09-17 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/17 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: At a guess, the combination of amenity=fuel and shop=yes means that there is a retail shop in addition to fuel sales.  This most likely is what Americans call a convenience store.  Typically, most of the inventory will be beer, candy, soft

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - maze

2010-09-17 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/17 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: On 18 September 2010 03:31, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: No, absolutely no, a maze (actually a labyrinth) was the first piece Thanks for the history lesson, but that hardly applies to most modern mazes which tend

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - maze

2010-09-17 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/17 John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com: Well, amusement parks sometimes contain mazes, but I wouldn't classify mazes as a type of amusement park.  They are also sometimes a feature of formal gardens; some hedge mazes have been in existence for centuries. +1 That was my intention to

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - maze

2010-09-18 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/18 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: On 18 September 2010 10:27, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: I know of an amusement park, it's main attraction is it's castle. You really need to work on your analogies, maybe you should have suggested it's main attraction

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - maze

2010-09-19 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/18 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: attraction, however you just jogged my memory, there is a castle attraction near to here: http://www.sunshinecastle.com/ As for the maze place, it has maze in the name Bellingham Maze http://www.bellmaze.com/ you might have gotten me wrong: I

[Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-20 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
Hi, I'm asking for comments to the new barrier types listed here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/New_barrier_types If you miss something, please report here so that we can extend the proposal. I somehow forgot about it, but want to close the process now in some weeks time

Re: [Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-20 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/20 Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com:  On 20/09/2010 19:27, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: Spike/Teeth Barriers http://www.entryparkingposts.com/ These don't allow travel unless retracted. yes, this is nice, I have never seen them, which value do you suggest? There's also the less

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - maze

2010-09-21 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/20 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: That might cover mazes, but how about the rest of the amusement/theme park options? I'm think someone suggested attraction=maze the other day... In which case attraction=castle|dodgem_cars|ferris_wheel|water_slide|wave_pool|

Re: [Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-21 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/21 Stephen Hope slh...@gmail.com: On 21 September 2010 10:08, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: maybe you can spot a more technic term? I'm sure they have a proper name ;-) Wikipedia seems to think they're just a subset of a Jersey Barrier - mind you, even jersey

Re: [Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-21 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/21 Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net:  On 9/21/10 2:19 AM, Stephen Hope wrote: maybe you can spot a more technic term? I'm sure they have a proper name http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_barrier#Plastic_Jersey_barriers Wikipedia is a little disjointed on this. Attenuator is

Re: [Tagging] RFC: more barrier types

2010-09-21 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/21 Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net: i would note that jersey barrier refers to a specific type, which has two different slopes, designed to manage the direction in which vehicles hitting it go. that's the one I was aiming at. some of the plastic barrier systems do look like

Re: [Tagging] name:English, name:Español and lei sure:pitch pitch:? or sport:?

2010-09-21 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/21 Eric Jarvies e...@csl.com.mx: or is it?: leisure:pitch sport:baseball +1, generally this one. btw.: What do others use for swimming pools? leisure=pool? leisure=swimming_pool? leisure=pitch? cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list

Re: [Tagging] name:English, name:Español and lei sure:pitch pitch:? or sport:?

2010-09-21 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/21 char...@cferrero.net: Brad Neuhauser (brad.neuhau...@gmail.com) wrote: I've used leisure=swimming_pool.  Using just pool seems ambiguous, and using pitch (i.e. field) for water just seems too weird. Ditto.  Though mapnik doesn't seem to render leisure=swimming_pool, which is a

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - maze

2010-09-21 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/21 John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com: On 21 September 2010 19:14, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: add your proposals there (or on the discussion pages). Attraction Done... obviously only in case we can agree that this key can also be used in parks and other

[Tagging] BE vs AE: kerb

2010-09-22 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
Recently someone noted on the tagging-ML, that curb is AE and the OSM-style would be kerb. Unfortunately curb is quite frequent in the wiki (and probably in tagging although I think tagging kerbs is not yet a well established practise). I encourage everybody to stick to one of our golden rules and

Re: [Tagging] Re-organizing food things?

2010-09-27 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/27 David Paleino da...@debian.org: I'd say +1 to retail=food and food=cafe|restaurant|... though. -1, I wouldn't tag restaurants, cafes and others as retail. I am not opposing food=cafe / restaurant, etc., this would also be compatible with the current amenity-tag, but I don't see a big

[Tagging] inconsistencies in bridge

2010-09-27 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
recently there was introduced some weird stuff in bridge: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:bridge bridge=yes bridge=aqueduct bridge=viaduct bridge=swing bridge=abandoned bridge=... I'm fine with yes, but also aqueduct, viaduct, swing may be OK, indicating all a

Re: [Tagging] inconsistencies in bridge

2010-09-27 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
I already proceeded and removed abandoned cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] amenity=ice_cream: approved?

2010-09-27 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/27 Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com: On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 3:48 AM, David Paleino da...@debian.org wrote: On Sun, 26 Sep 2010 21:26:27 -0400, Nathan Edgars II wrote:

Re: [Tagging] Give Way and Stop in two-way street

2010-09-27 Thread Mrtin Koppenhoefer
2010/9/27 Noel David Torres Taño env...@rolamasao.org: Hello all: There are some streets which, being two-way, one way has a Stop or Give Way and the other has not. How to tag them? tag the signs at their position (i.e. in countries driving on the right, put a node right of the way and tag

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