Hi All,
Sorry for the late reply after starting this thread a few days ago.
I was surprised to see how far this topic has expanded (even into OSM
should have fault lines so we can re-align after earthquakes!), so I just
want to refocus on cycling.
1. A Quick Recap
From the countries that I
In Denmark, they use lanes/tracks that are immediately alongside the road
and separated by a shallow kerb, and turn into lanes on the approach to
junctions. You can certainly move on and off them very easily.
OK. I assume they are not allowed to be used by cars? In these cases the
track can be
There seems to be a need for a new value for the access tags. The new value
would indicate that the way can be used (as it is not illegal /
prohibited), but it is advised to use a different route. There are at least
2 cases I am aware of where this would help:
1. For cycle tracks drawn as
or footpath nearby.
I see that something like alternative may end up being used for suggested
routes, but is there any other (potential new) values for the access tag
that may help here?
RobJN
2012/5/30 Rob Nickerson rob.j.nickerson at gmail.com
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
.
Regards,
Rob
On 9 August 2012 17:14, Pieren pier...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com
wrote:
* maxspeed=120; 80?wet; 60?wet+hgv
Here '?' can be interpreted as 'if' and '+' as 'and'.
It's maybe more readable if you write 120; wet ? 80
Hi All,
I've been thinking a bit more about this and would like to improve on my
initial thoughts from yesterday. So expanding on the existing opening_hours
type tag, I would like to suggest the following format for extended access
tags:
* rule:vehicle=condition1 value1; condition2 value2...
Eckhart wrote:
* - you lose backward compatibility** ** The proposal falls back to
existing tag schemas therefore providing** backwards compatability.*
No, it doesn't. If you set maxspeed=120; wet 80, then none of the
existing routing programs can use this tag anymore. The Extended
Conditions
Thanks both,
I will look into options for better maintaining compatibility. One possible
solution would be to prefix extended tag keys with e: for a transitional
period. I'm not a big fan of this as it is messy. The problem is sometimes
you just have to make big changes even if this breaks
-- Tobias wrote: --
Have you seen the Conditional restrictions proposal that was linked
here yesterday?
http://wiki.osm.org/Proposed_features/Conditional_restrictions
It is basically the same idea. The most important difference is that it
uses a :conditional suffix.
Although I don't know the history of the access tag, I would expect that
designated and permissive might have something to do with Public Rights
of Way in the UK:
* If a path is designated as a Public Footpath then you have a legal
right to walk on it and there is a legal structure protecting
Dear List,
{This is a cross post - please reply to the tagging mailing list or the
proposals [2] talk page }
- - - Announcement - - -
Several attempts have in the past been made to develop a tagging scheme
that is capable of handling the more complex access restrictions (e.g. No
motor vehicles
Hi All,
Despite some of the perceived benefits of this proposal being challenged
(mainly in regards to their relevance), the overwhelming thing that was
clear was that this proposal was well thought out. Ole looked carefully at
the feedback that was given during previous proposals and worked to
Hi everybody,
it probably comes as no surprise that I am against the Conditional
Restrictions proposal and in favor of the Extended Conditions proposal.
My main reason is that I believe the Conditional Restrictions proposal is so
complicated it will kill mapping of those conditions almost
Hi,
I'm looking how to tag a road with seasonal opening or closing. ...
Up to now, I was using opening_hours=* with Nov-Apr off.
Hi Éric,
Have you tried: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Conditional_restrictions
Work is under way to help make the page clearer, but essentially your tag
would
As noted some of these things change very quickly (I know some of the other
things you mentioned can and do change, but the frequency is a lot less).
The issue of then using these tags in a routing app / software is one a
staleness. Perhaps the router should not use them when deciding the best
-- Éric wrote: --
For mountain pass in Alps, this could be just
access:conditional = no @ Nov-Apr
For African tracks, something like
smoothness:conditional = horrible @ May-Oct
smoothness:conditional = very_horrible @ Nov-Apr
or
smoothness = horrible
smoothness:conditional = very_horrible @
*One of the main mountain highways here is closed to licensed
vehicles*during the winter months, but snowmobiles are permitted.
Would
vehicle:conditional apply to snowmobiles?
--
Clifford
Hi Clifford,
vehicle does include snowmobiles. Essentially there is a hierarchy of
transportation modes
* For more details see [1]** and [2]. Essentially there is a hierarchy of
subcategories for** transportation modes.** [2]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Access_hierarchy_simple.png*
This scheme should be more wildly used. It seems to be use only in the
German wiki.
Eric
---
Hi Eric,
Hi Eckhart,
Your right, voting has come to an end for the Conditional Restrictions
proposal, which was approved. A statement was not made on this list as Ole
and I are working on how best to write the feature page so that some of the
concerns raised (about complexity / difficulty to understand)
To draw the comparison with Conditional Restrictions the above tags
cover of restriction type, transportation mode and the tag value.
There is no need to specify direction as this is already captured in
the relation (from, via, to).
I am not sure you can say this. It should work where the
I'm still not convinced that you need to introduce a new tag (be that
applies or condition).
1. Although it is difficult to calculate how many turn restrictions have
some form of condition, the numbers can't be that many in comparison to
normal restrictions that apply at all times. Adding the
On 16 October 2012 23:38, Eckhart Wörner ewoer...@kde.org wrote:
Hi Rob,
(Putting tagging ML back in To since this might be of interest to other
people as well, I hope you don't mind.)
On topic: In your suggestion you proposed applies = *. What would you
do
with the following:
*
Hi,
In the UK I've spotted that some maximum weight road signs have just the
weight limit on the sign, whilst others also include a picture of a HGV.
I've only realised this difference recently and have not had time to
research the legal side of things but the brief description on the
Department
Thanks Eckhart,
I've just had a bit more time to have a look at different weights and found
the following terms:
1. *gross vehicle weight rating* (also *gross vehicle mass*, *GVWR*, *GVM*)
- This appears to be a maximum operating weight specified by the
manufacturer (hence a rating) and includes
I've just checked the UK road sign guidance too [1].
Section 5.15 (page 35 describes the sign with the image of a HGV and a
weight restriction number. It clearly states that this is a restriction for
environmental reasons (e.g. where roads are narrow and unsuitable for
large vehicles, or to
Hi Rob,
Am Montag, 26. November 2012, 20:33:08 schrieb Rob Nickerson:
* Conclusion - in the UK all weight limits are Gross Vehicle Weight
Rating** limits and thus maxweight=* and hgv:maxweight=* would be enough.*
except that maxweight does *not* limit the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating
Hi martinq,
Good summary. We must have been working on it at the same time as I have
just copied the wiki discussion to [1] (and liberally edited it to break it
into sections and make it easier to follow). I suggest we keep discussions
to this mailing list and the maxweight talk page (where it is
-- Forwarding message from talk as more appropriate to tagging list
--
Hi,
A mapper who is new to my area is interested in mapping disabled access at
a micro level. Specifically he would like to achieve door-to-door mapping
for key shops and amenities, and has made a good start
The conditional access restrictions proposal did not specify that this :wet
tag suffix would be deprecated (in fact it stated quite the opposite). From
a developers point of view however, it is beneficial if we use a consistent
tagging scheme, which is what the conditional tag was designed to
Quiet often if such a change is made (does not deprecate - recommend to
stop using) it is by someone other than the original proposal author.
Irrespective of this the proposal procedure is a RFC - Request For Change -
process. What it does is to say hey guys, I think we should change this,
if you
How about:
overtaking:trailer:conditional=no @ (05:00-22:00 AND weight0.75 )
The access wiki page lists trailer=* (needs to be towed by another
vehicle which has its own restrictions), which suggests that trailer
should be seen as a separate identity, thus weight applies to the trailer
only.
Good start :-)
One point that jumps to mind: I would imagine that you will find the
layer=* tag to be better than level=*.
All the best,
Rob
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I'm not a fan of garde1 ... grade5. I always, always, always have to
look up the meanings when using it for track type (even though JOSM has a
drop down list, the meaning are not given within JOSM).
How about something like light (push back with hands, walk around),
medium (as with light but may
I would like to see a tagging proposal that covers more general cases such
as trees planted in memory of someone (for example see
http://www.thenma.org.uk/ ). For this we would need tags describing when
the tree was panted, who it was planted by (if planted by a well known
person or charity), and
Hi,
I hadn't looked at the milestone wiki page before, assuming it referred
to (the now historic) actual stone distance markers. Looking at the page,
it seems to be used for modern signs. In the UK we have distance markers
along motorways (Driver Location Signs). An example can be seen here:
Hi,
The next steps with any tag proposal that reaches a hung jury is to read
through the comments and update the proposal to address the issues raised.
In this case I think the wiki page needs to be clearer about what this tag
is for (a few photo/aerial image examples would help), and how it
@Rob:
Did you ever try to describe the junction with the Lane and Road
Attributes?
No, I didn't. And as I've been busy with organising SOTM I didn't even
fully read the tag proposal (hence I didn't vote). I hope you agree that my
general comment about reading through and attempting to address the
Hi,
I agree that the meaning is correct (legally), but I think we need to try
and simplify the jargon in the one line summary section. How about:
maxgross_weight: All vehicles have a registered upper limit on their
allowable mass (when fully loaded). This is often known as the Gross
Weight, and
Daniel wrote:
- Make it easier to edit the wiki.
Hi Daniel,
I agree - the wiki can be hard to edit if you have never done this before.
This is why I requested a visual editor (that is now used by Wikipedia) to
be added. Unfortunately this requires an update to the version of MediaWiki
that we
Quote:
I'm not sure I'd rush into
it, anyway. Even granted
that en.wikipedia
probably uses more complex
markup and templates than we
do, uptake of the
visual editor (among new
editors and otherwise)
doesn't seem very high, and
no one outside of the WMF
seems very impressed by its
current state of
Hi All,
I have some winter gritting/salting routes that I am trying to work out how
best to tag them. I was thinking of creating a route relation, but I may
need to add some new roles:
* forward:grit implies the gritting truck grits this road whilst
travelling in the direction of the way.
*
Thanks,
Happy to ignore JOSMs error, but don't want to have someone else change my
route relation if it flags as a QA bug (hence posting here to gather
people's thoughts ideas).
They're as stable as bus routes in my area as the local authority has to
ensure the correct roads are gritted and the
Craig said:
What is the point in mapping roads where the gritter drives, if it is
not gritting there? How is that useful for anyone?
In the UK any government data based on a map tends to be derived from the
national mapping agency and as such creates licence issues. We therefore
opt to use the
Going slightly off topic, I notice the UK listing is missing byway, a
recognised highway classification.
Dave F.
Hi Dave,
The highway=byway tag is deprcated:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dbyway
The legal status of UK Rights of Way now belong in the designation tag,
and the
...@madasafish.com wrote:
On 21/05/2014 23:28, Rob Nickerson wrote:
Going slightly off topic, I notice the UK listing...
Hi Rob
I believe byway shouldn't be deprecated. In my area most of them are signed
as just 'byway' on the ground. There is no indication of their legal status
(BOATs etc
There's no onewayness for natural gas pipelines. They may have a
prevailing direction, but the direction of flow is not determined by the
pipe. It's determined by the pressure differential (gas will flow from high
to low pressure) and this can be changed via use of compressor stations.
A natural
Hi,
Sorry to raise this issue again but it really does need resolving:
* for ensuring good data; and
* to prevent forest and wood being rendered as the same thing [1]
Currently the descriptions in the green box on the right of the wiki page
(and thus those that get picked up by taginfo and
On 20 August 2014 18:45, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote:
Wood: Woodland with no forestry
Forest: Managed woodland or woodland plantation.
I think for me the wording isn't quite right. For me landuse=forest is
something that has been planted for the purpose of harvesting trees
Thanks for the responses so far.
I'm not suggesting a business=tag_what_ever_you_like tag. In fact I only
really care about having a suitable key. I like business=* as this covers
everything, but you could say that business is used as a level 1 tag and
then level 2 tags would be shop=, craft=,
Dave,
My understanding is the same as yours. That is, I map them according to the
wiki guidelines:
Forward means the route follows this way only in the direction of the
way, and backward means the route runs only against the direction of the
way.
Adding these roles to the members that make up
Hi all,
Following on from the RFC on the Unique Property Reference Number (UPRN)
and Unique Street Reference Number (USRN) for use within Great Britain,
please note that these are now open for voting:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/ref:GB:uprn
Hi all,
Mappers in the United Kingdom are looking to agree two tags for mapping
'Unique Property Reference Numbers' and 'Unique Street Reference Numbers'.
To support this effort I volunteered to create the relevant proposal pages
on the wiki.
To view and comment on these please see:
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