Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On 2018-09-20 17:16, Kevin Kenny wrote: On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 9:55 AM André Pirard > wrote: Belgium speaks 3 official languages and their very official borders *have been* mapped. This subject was presented several times on this list and "raised"

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 9:55 AM André Pirard wrote: > Belgium speaks 3 official languages and their very official borders *have > been* mapped. > This subject was presented several times on this list and "raised" a total > lack of interest. > Especially regarding the need to define a language bou

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

Hi, Yes, only official languages should be mapped. They're difficult enough already to be verified "on the ground" in a survey. Belgium speaks 3 official languages and their very official borders have been mapped. This subject was presented several times on t

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On Sun, 16 Sep 2018 at 20:26, Christoph Hormann wrote: > > I am not really familiar with the legal status of aboriginal lands in > various parts of the world and how use of the names differs betweeen > the inside and the outside. I have a hard time imagining an aboriginal > land with a distinct

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

FYI, the U.S. NGA ( National Geospatial Agency ) provides the NGA GEOnet Names Server (GNS) with both a viewer and text lookup . Also available are various web services

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On Sunday 16 September 2018, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > "you would need extensive external data to determine how to > actually display combinations of names (which obviously depends on > the languages and scripts involved)" > > Do you mean how to decide which name is displayed "first"? On the > lef

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

"you would need extensive external data to determine how to actually display combinations of names (which obviously depends on the languages and scripts involved)" Do you mean how to decide which name is displayed "first"? On the left / on top etc? I think that's up to map designers. But I supp

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

Sorry, the example may not have been clear. It was simple an example of a bilingual tag that might be used in a place where signs show the name in Chinese characters, plus a latin alphabet version. This might happen in an overseas Chinese community. I was mainly looking for a combination of two tag

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On Sunday 16 September 2018, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > > *Would it be feasible for database users to query > boundary=aboriginal_lands along with the admin boundaries*? As said i can't really form an opinion on this without a real world example, the corresponding data and a suggestion how this sh

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 12:21 PM, Joseph Eisenberg < joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> wrote: [...] I don't (yet) have an opinion either way on the feasibility or desirability of tagging languages used in a region. But this... It should be interpreted with the individual language name tags. > If the d

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 7:26 PM Christoph Hormann wrote: > > would it be a problem to also search for boundaries of > > aboriginal_lands in addition to 8 admin boundary levels? > > I am not really familiar with the legal status of aboriginal lands in > various parts of the world and how use of th

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On Sunday 16 September 2018, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 1:23 AM Christoph Hormann wrote: > > > Are you objecting to the idea of tagging places as well as > > > boundaries? What about the protected area / aboriginal lands > > > boundaries? > > > > * I don't think any tagging

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

sent from a phone > On 16. Sep 2018, at 06:23, Joseph Eisenberg > wrote: > > boundary=administrative may have up 9 levels in some places (admin_level 2 to > 10) even admin_level 11 in some places: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/admin_level#values https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On Sat, Sep 15, 2018 at 9:24 PM Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > > If it's necessary, I'm willing to make a proposal to change aboriginal / > native lands to an administrative boundary, without an admin_level > Would that solve the problem? > > Please don't suggest changing aboriginal lands tag. I'm ver

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

Colin, the theread title is now incorrect. I no longer think it is feasible to map the boundaries of languages. The proposal will just seek to document the format of default name=* tags. This will also provide information about the language used within in a particular administrative boundary, as a

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On Sun, Sep 16, 2018 at 1:23 AM Christoph Hormann wrote: > > Are you objecting to the idea of tagging places as well as > > boundaries? What about the protected area / aboriginal lands > > boundaries? > > > > > * I don't think any tagging concept where the language format tag of a > feature other

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On 16/09/18 01:37, Colin Smale wrote: Joseph, I have to admit I am getting a bit lost as to what you are trying to define with this proposal. Whatever tagging we end up with, who is the target audience? What are the use cases? Is it an aid to interpreting and pronouncing the contents of the "

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On Saturday 15 September 2018, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > please let us not use "complicated" characters, on some keyboards > those aren't even indicated and you might need multifinger > combinations to type them. If the key says "language format" I > believe for the value we only have to defin

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

2018-09-15 18:22 GMT+02:00 Christoph Hormann : > The > most common way to do that is to prefix symbols with a special > character. An alternative would be to enclose symbols in special > characters (like braces, e.g. language_format={de} - {fr}). > please let us not use "complicated" character

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On Saturday 15 September 2018, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > * the choice of suggesting tagging the language information on either > > > the administrative boundary relations or the individual features > > but not on any other feature with a meaning beyond the feature > > itself was not arbitrary. > >

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

Joseph, I have to admit I am getting a bit lost as to what you are trying to define with this proposal. Whatever tagging we end up with, who is the target audience? What are the use cases? Is it an aid to interpreting and pronouncing the contents of the "name" tag? Is it a (strong) hint to mappers

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

* the choice of suggesting tagging the language information on either > the administrative boundary relations or the individual features but > not on any other feature with a meaning beyond the feature itself was > not arbitrary. > Are you objecting to the idea of tagging places as well as boundar

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

Re: "How about "name:language_order=fr;nl"? No confusion possible there, whereas "name:language=fr;nl" would not specify the order, unless you define the list of languages to be an ordered list, which AFAIK would be a new concept to OSM." In Brussels they would actually like to be able to display

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On Friday 14 September 2018, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > > Christoph (@Imagico) has suggested tagging the official language > information on administrative boundary relations: > http://blog.imagico.de/you-name-it-on-representing-geographic-diversi >ty-in-names/ A few remarks here regarding this: *

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On 2018-09-15 15:18, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > Re: "A default should not require multiple values! It is the single value to > be used in the absence of an explicit value. If you think you need multiple > defaults, see my comment above about different contexts." > > The idea is to allow a commu

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

Re: "A default should not require multiple values! It is the single value to be used in the absence of an explicit value. If you think you need multiple defaults, see my comment above about different contexts." The idea is to allow a community to choose 2 languages to be displayed together as the

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On 2018-09-15 06:33, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > I like the word "default"; it doesn't make a value judgement or have positive > / negative connotations. And it sounds like it has to do with how the > database should function, which is the right idea. The most common language > used for names sho

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

sent from a phone > On 15. Sep 2018, at 08:47, Joseph Eisenberg > wrote: > > Graeme, > Are aboriginal lands already in OSM as boundary relations? I believe there is > some debate about whether to use boundary=protected_area or > boundary=aboriginal_lands it doesn’t matter, we don’t need b

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

Graeme, Are aboriginal lands already in OSM as boundary relations? I believe there is some debate about whether to use boundary=protected_area or boundary=aboriginal_lands? I know that many Reservations in the USA are still yet to be mapped, though the data should be available from the government.

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On Sat, 15 Sep 2018 at 08:14, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > I speak with a couple of people on other forums, one who manages the > stores in some of these communities in the Northern Territory & Western > Australia, & the other was Head Nurse in a local hospital, so I'll bounce > the question of

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

I started a draft proposal focused on the use of the language tag as a default for names. I'm inclined to use a tag that is clearly limited to verifiable features of human geography. The terminology should also show that the tag is meant to be used in this database to help interprete name=* tags i

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

Graeme, If the level 2 admin_boundary is tagged, it wouldn't be strictly necessary to tag each level 4 (State/Province) boundary if all are the same as the national level. Thank you for bringing up Aboriginal / Native American / First Peoples / Minority Ethnic Group language communities. I would s

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

this would also be useful for „micromapping“, e.g. the tag could be added to places like https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5314074411 (ignore the position for the purpose of this discussion) currently you can’t see it is a place where English is spoken. Or less „famous“ features like embassies

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On Fri, 14 Sep 2018 at 23:14, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > Would "language:en=yes" be enough for the mainland USA? Or > "language:en=main"; "langauge:en=majority"? > I was wondering the same thing for Australia? The official language is English so the level 2 (1 ?) admin zone would be tagged langua

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

Good points everyone! Thank you for the link, I'm sorry that I missed the April discussion (It's difficult to search these lists). But I’m glad to see that this is not a novel idea. It looks like some of the same issues came up, and tagging admin boundaries was the best solution, though places cou

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

sent from a phone On 14. Sep 2018, at 10:18, Colin Smale wrote: >>> On 2018-09-14 08:47, Frederik Ramm wrote: >>> >> I'd go for a mixed approach - tag the (largest useful) administrative >> boundary first, and then allow lower level admin boundaries and finally, >> place nodes, to override th

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

On 2018-09-14 08:47, Frederik Ramm wrote: > I'd go for a mixed approach - tag the (largest useful) administrative > boundary first, and then allow lower level admin boundaries and finally, > place nodes, to override the default. Sounds good! Let's use that approach for e.g. maxspeed as well. It l

Re: [Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

Hi, On 14.09.2018 04:43, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > It would be useful to tag the primary language of wider communication in > a place, because this information is already implicit in the names of > places but hard to access. See also a longer thread on this list from April: https://lists.openstr

[Tagging] Mapping language borders, tagging offical languages?

Currently the primary language of a place can be guessed by looking at the name=* tags and comparing to name:= or loc_name, if you can read the local characters and know the language. For example, by looking at the map in Pakistan, I can tell that they use Arabic characters to name places and geog