Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

Sorry for perhaps adding further complexity, but if you haven't noted, one thing that crawls under the surface when it comes to names in nature is this "holy" principle: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Verifiability Names of natural features often don't have strict borders. Wetlands as

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

Relations are quite obnoxious in regular editing and also during actually using the data. Dec 14, 2020, 08:07 by and...@torger.se: > > Why is the relation problematic (honest question)? > > > I was starting to think that some sort of naming relation could be the > answer, ie you put both peaks

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

It sounds like what we are asking for is the ability to tag a rough polygon in the approximate area where a label should be placed for a known but not strictly bounded toponymic feature (mountain range, water body, etc). That would give a hint to renderers as to the location and most importantly,

Re: [Tagging] How to tag entire group of rentable holiday cottages?

On 14.12.2020 07:19, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: There are cases where there is group of multiple holiday cottages, each rentable independently. I know about cases with just 2 and big groups, 25 in one place. How it should be tagged? I found

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

Hello Frederik, good and clearly communicated points! I very much appreciate that, and I agree with the issues you describe. Those are indeed real problems. However, these fuzzy regions also exist on a small scale, and in my case it's always been about that. The features I'm mapping now are

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

> Anders Torger hat am 14.12.2020 07:59 geschrieben: > > > I'll gladly answer questions, but I think you need to rephrase. I > suppose it is some hidden critique in there, but I honestly do not > understand the question. It would be better for me if you put words on > the critique instead

Re: [Tagging] How to tag entire group of rentable holiday cottages?

sent from a phone > On 14. Dec 2020, at 09:46, Paul Allen wrote: > > Yes, that's for one. But there is nothing for a group, Operator on each > ties them together loosely, but it would be nice to have a relation or > a boundary for them that could be rendered as a name for the grouping, >

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

> 13 dec. 2020 kl. 16:15 skrev Christoph Hormann : > > I am trying to understand what the issue is with the recommendation for > mapping you have received from multiple sides here. Just to clarify, could you summarise what that recommendation is, for the Rijmmoáhpe case? The thread has become

Re: [Tagging] How to tag entire group of rentable holiday cottages?

On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 at 10:57, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: So my questions are: what is the UK (or English in general) word for > location with group > of holiday cottages? > I can't think of an English term, other than "holiday cottages." These places

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

Hi, On 14.12.20 12:20, Anders Torger wrote: > My sense is that OSM community do want naming in nature as well, but > only if it can be made very simple. Unfortunately that is not always > compatible with reality, and here we are... Personally I think naming is desirable for clear features. This

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

To make a specific answer to "what additional verifiable local knowledge" this relation is intended to cover, is that the wetland is a single named entity, not multiple entities named the same. And here's some elaboration. This is 4 km wide wetland, in the real world named as a single entity,

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

For reference, here's Rijmmoáhpe again, a wetland which is about 4 km across, consisting of both bog and marsh: https://www.torger.se/anders/downloads/Screenshot_2020-12-13-OpenStreetMap.png It's located in Muddus national park, Sweden. I'm quite sure the recommendation Christoph refers to is

Re: [Tagging] How to tag entire group of rentable holiday cottages?

On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 at 06:22, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > There are cases where there is group of multiple holiday cottages, > each rentable independently. I know about cases with just 2 and big > groups, 25 in one place. > I know many of those. It

Re: [Tagging] How to tag entire group of rentable holiday cottages?

Dec 14, 2020, 10:07 by marius...@gmail.com: > On 14.12.2020 07:19, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: > >> >> There are cases where there is group of multiple holiday cottages, >> >> each rentable independently. I know about cases with just 2 and big groups, >> 25 in one place. >> >> How it

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

Yeah, you may be right, but I see it like this: in cases where "complex" naming is a reality, complex schemes are unavoidable, if we want to support it at all. It's not like one would use the most complex method in every case, just where it's needed. To use an old saying, Einstein I think:

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - crossing=priority

sent from a phone > On 13. Dec 2020, at 21:37, stevea wrote: > > This is problematic to my thinking. In California (my state), at an > UNCONTROLLED intersection (no traffic_signal, stop sign, other traffic > control device...), for example where the sidewalk "would continue to another >

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

I should have added that a long-term solution is probably some sort of collective concept to handle fuzzy natural areas, and then this wetland will also be named as a fuzzy natural area, although less fuzzy than your typical natural fuzzy area :-). But how long will that take to get

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

Yes, I agree in full, and I forgot to add in that post that I believe the long-term solution for this wetland and other natural features like it is indeed to use some fuzzy-area feature. For some reason (I wonder why...?) I've got the sense that such a feature could be debated for years to

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

> Anders Torger hat am 14.12.2020 14:01 geschrieben: > > > To make a specific answer to "what additional verifiable local > knowledge" this relation is intended to cover, is that the wetland is a > single named entity, not multiple entities named the same. But i already explained that the

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

On 2020-12-14 15:22, Christoph Hormann wrote: Anders Torger hat am 14.12.2020 14:01 geschrieben: But i already explained that the fact that in OSM we add name tags to parts of roads, waterways, wetlands, forests or woods does not mean these are somehow separate from other features with the

Re: [Tagging] How to tag entire group of rentable holiday cottages?

I suppose we also lack a way to distinguish extended-stay hotels which are designed for 1 week to multi-month stays; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartment_hotel " There are currently 27 extended stay chains in North America with at least 7 hotels, representing over 2,000 properties.[*citation

Re: [Tagging] How to tag entire group of rentable holiday cottages?

On 12/14/2020 3:11 PM, Paul Allen wrote: I'd expect a motel to be set up to handle very short duration (one or two day) at very short notice (turn up and ask for a room) and to offer meals unless there are diners/restaurants nearby... Take a look at https://www.canllefaes.com/

Re: [Tagging] How to tag entire group of rentable holiday cottages?

On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 at 19:41, Jmapb wrote: > > At least In the rural USA, there's a continuum between motels that have > an array of rentable rooms in one or two buildings and those where each > room is an individual cabin, or sometimes half of a duplex cabin. It's > common to see motels

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

Ok, understood. However as far as I know OSM lacks a standard document for render implementors to actually know how data should be interpreted. And if OSM-Carto does it wrong (albeit due to technical limitations), how can we expect that anyone else would do it right? Unfortunately I think the

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

> Anders Torger hat am 14.12.2020 15:49 geschrieben: > > Okay, but why does the OSM-Carto renderer, and all other renderers known > to man(?) make multiple text labels then, when it should be a single > one? OSM-Carto renders labels primarily based on the following constraints: * due to

Re: [Tagging] How to tag entire group of rentable holiday cottages?

I've been using tourism=motel for these, if there are no other features that would tip them into leisure=resort. At least In the rural USA, there's a continuum between motels that have an array of rentable rooms in one or two buildings and those where each room is an individual cabin, or

Re: [Tagging] How to tag entire group of rentable holiday cottages?

On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 at 20:38, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > I suppose we also lack a way to distinguish extended-stay hotels which are > designed for 1 week to multi-month stays; > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartment_hotel > If it's a single building, maybe it's still a hotel. Maybe some

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

14 dec. 2020 kl. 15:49 skrev Anders Torger : > > Okay, but why does the OSM-Carto renderer, and all other renderers known to > man(?) make multiple text labels then, when it should be a single one? Look > at the result, it looks horrible. Do you really think this is the way it > should be

Re: [Tagging] Changes to clarify the Hazards proposal during the vote

Thanks Brian. As far as I am concerned, those changes are fine. Graeme On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 at 10:53, Brian M. Sperlongano wrote: > Hello, > > I recently received late feedback on the hazards proposal. Based on the > feedback, I felt it was necessary to make small changes to this proposal. >

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 at 21:41, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > What I don't like in OSM is naming for large geographic areas, Thanks for the explanation, Frederik, but I'd like to make a couple of points like "the Alps", "the Black Forest", or "the Bay of Biscay", for two > reasons: > > First, there

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

> 14 dec. 2020 kl. 19:06 skrev Ture Pålsson (that’s me!): > > I think it would be good to keep the set of possible values for the ’type’ > tag small, so I’d like to propose another level of indirection; something like > > type=named_area, named_area=natural, natural=wetland, name=Peter’s

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

> 14 dec. 2020 kl. 22:30 skrev Anders Torger : > > Cool! It would be really nice to see a demo :-) Rijmmoáhpe renders sort of reasonably now at http://lab3.turepalsson.se/map . (On the generated PDF, not on the ”slippy map”. And it’s a bit hard to find, since

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

Fascinating thread, fascinating activities it seems to have given rise to! I applaud this dialog as I enjoy it. > On Dec 14, 2020, at 9:22 PM, Ture Pålsson via Tagging > wrote: >> 14 dec. 2020 kl. 22:30 skrev Anders Torger : >> >> Cool! It would be really nice to see a demo :-) > >

Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - RFC 2 - Pumping proposal

Hi Volker Le lun. 14 déc. 2020 à 06:58, Volker Schmidt a écrit : > My main point got lost: the proposal should explain how the mapping of > pumps in pumping stations should be handled, short of using indoor mapping, > especially as your cover photo shows an indoors pump in an industrial >

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

Re; "Don't adjust your mapping to what you believe is most convenient for data users" I know this recommendation is unpopular with some mappers, because many of us just want to see a good-looking map, and if it takes duplicating relations and extra mapping work we will do it. But remember that

[Tagging] Changes to clarify the Hazards proposal during the vote

Hello, I recently received late feedback on the hazards proposal. Based on the feedback, I felt it was necessary to make small changes to this proposal. I believe these changes are sufficiently minor that they do not invalidate the voting which has occurred so far. Since this proposal has begun

Re: [Tagging] How to tag entire group of rentable holiday cottages?

On Mon, 14 Dec 2020 at 21:28, Paul Allen wrote: > I can't think of an English term, other than "holiday cottages." These > places > generally call themselves "Foo Holiday Cottages" or "Foo Holidays" or > "Foo Farm Cottages" or things like that. > I'm with Paul for Holiday Cottages. How about

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

Cool! It would be really nice to see a demo :-) I would be fine with your naming scheme, however you'll have to rely on the adjacent rendering as I will be removing all relations per request. As said I actually had them mostly for make my editing easier (without them it becomes harder to

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

I agree with Mateusz that the wiki IS the project's standard document for the meaning of tagging (from the perspective of data consumers) and how to tag (from the perspective of mappers). Note that both perspectives are important. But to address the specific point, there is no standard document

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

Dec 14, 2020, 22:03 by and...@torger.se: > Ok, understood. However as far as I know OSM lacks a standard document > for render implementors to actually know how data should be interpreted. > In part it is https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/ in part it is decision of authors of map style how they

Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - RFC 2 - Pumping proposal

On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 5:11 PM François Lacombe wrote: > Hi Brian, > > Thank you for your comments > > Le lun. 14 déc. 2020 à 00:40, Brian M. Sperlongano > a écrit : > >> 1. The proposal states "It is proposed to discourage the use of >> undocumented pump:type=* to state pump mechanisms in

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

I certainly agree that we should not waste mapper's time, but in this case it was mainly actually to make it easier for myself with JOSM to find my way back to all small pieces in a fragmented landscape. Not having this relation makes editing a fair bit harder as you can't really see which

Re: [Tagging] Feature proposal - RFC 2 - Pumping proposal

Hi Brian, Thank you for your comments Le lun. 14 déc. 2020 à 00:40, Brian M. Sperlongano a écrit : > 1. The proposal states "It is proposed to discourage the use of > undocumented pump:type=* to state pump mechanisms in favour of new > pump_mechanism=*." It is not clear what is meant by

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

Some more points after a night's sleep: I just remembered, another issue with opentopomap is that it doesn't render wetland names at all, which may be a bit strange for a map with topology. But we could look at some other map, geofabrik for example, and of course it renders the same way as

Re: [Tagging] How to put a name tag on an area with more than one type?

Impressive work! I had missed myself that the river flows through. To tie it together I would have made a multipolygon with two outers one on each side of the river, and I think I've already done that in some other wetland with the same issue. However that is not a fool-proof solution, as in