Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
sent from a phone > On 28. Oct 2020, at 17:40, Rob Savoye wrote: > > I'm not 100% sure on the best tagging other than maybe parking=yes and > access=emergency is appropriate these really aren’t parking areas, nobody parks there, and you may not, they are rather the opposite, no parking areas. Emergency vehicles would use the space while fighting an emergency, otherwise they won’t be there. These are alleys and other space required for emergency vehicles to reach to parts of buildings that are away from the street, to turn their vehicles and bring them in position, etc. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
On 10/28/20 8:28 AM, Jonathon Rossi wrote: > Apologies for bringing dedicated reserved parking into the thread since > that is the only experience or interpretation I had. I think parking is > a worthwhile tag and I'd use emergency=parking for that, but let's get > back to your topic since it sounds more complex. Around here there are special parking areas for emergency vehicles but they're only used at crowded trailheads, or busy commercial shopping areas. We try to never park next to a burning building. :-) Where we park a large fire truck is up to the responders, and is based on a variety of criteria that aren't always obvious until you arrive, like an ability to turn a big vehicle around... Also areas near buildings often have other obstacles, like dumpsters, bike racks, etc... The cleared areas near buildings we think of as fire-mitigation zones. ie.. Zone 0 is within 2m of the building, Zone 1 is more like 15m, etc... While we might park there sometimes, we usually park out on the main road as it's safer. Running a few hundred meters of hose is common. I'm not 100% sure on the best tagging other than maybe parking=yes and access=emergency is appropriate. - rob - -- Senior Tech Lead Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team https://www.hotosm.org ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
Apologies for bringing dedicated reserved parking into the thread since that is the only experience or interpretation I had. I think parking is a worthwhile tag and I'd use emergency=parking for that, but let's get back to your topic since it sounds more complex. On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 6:34 PM Nüssli Christian (SRZ) < christian.nues...@zuerich.ch> wrote: > I wanted to ask you if there's a correct mapping of fire service areas. > That's areas in fire protection guidelines that will be reserved for > emergency vehicles.I found quite a few that are tagged as landuse=military > which is in my opinion – the incorrect way. How are they reserved for emergency vehicles? On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 10:13 PM Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > these areas are usually not access=no, there will be no parking / stopping > signs, but otherwise these are "normal" areas where other activities (like > walking, playing with a ball, etc.) will take place. Think of it as part of > the building regulation picture. The precise requirements may also depend > on the vehicles and equipment that is used by the local fire station. > Or are they just areas with a useful normal purpose but have been designed to allow emergency personnel to perform their job better? I saw the photo of a sign which translates to "fire service installation area", do you have any photos of these areas so we can better understand what they look like (or did I miss that)? For us in Australia emergency services basically use anywhere they like, even if that means blocking a road, but it appears from the video you linked that Germany has very narrow streets and so these areas are important because the streets don't have enough space? If there is a sign declaring a "fire service area" how do you know the extent of that area? -- Jono ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 at 12:14, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > these areas are usually not access=no, there will be no parking / stopping > signs, but otherwise these are "normal" areas where other activities (like > walking, playing with a ball, etc.) will take place. Think of it as part of > the building regulation picture. > Perhaps true of such areas set aside for firefighters. But there are other areas used by other emergency services. In the UK there are small parking areas set aside for use by police vehicles. Ostensibly where they wait for something to happen, probably just so they can have lunch. Here's one: https://goo.gl/maps/76Yv2vKKhpSnuDMd6 It's a bit weird because it's parking for police patrol vehicles and also a turning area (it's not specified who can use it, but it is an important part of a local bus route where the bus does a 180-degree turn with passengers still on it). It probably doesn't fall under emergency=* even though only vehicles of one of the emergency services can park there. I tagged it as private parking, years ago, for lack of anything better. If whatever we come up with for the fire service can accommodate this then I'll retag it. -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
Am Mi., 28. Okt. 2020 um 12:35 Uhr schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org>: > access=no should be enough, if parking searcher is not handling > access=no/access=private > it is broken anyway > these areas are usually not access=no, there will be no parking / stopping signs, but otherwise these are "normal" areas where other activities (like walking, playing with a ball, etc.) will take place. Think of it as part of the building regulation picture. The precise requirements may also depend on the vehicles and equipment that is used by the local fire station. Usually these are defined during the process of getting building permission (speaking about Germany here), where you have to present the project also to the fire department, and they can tell their objections and add requirements (you do not have to have these areas, it all depends on the individual project, and guaranteeing accessibility for fire fighters and their vehicles and equipment). For example requirements will tell how much load the area must be able to carry, how wide and height access roads have to be, ecc. and individually, where and if you have to provide these areas, how they have to be marked, etc. here's an example of signposted areas: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gNFFj27hLg4/T9ET3pVtdfI/A1A/3n5SZnT2_0Q/s1600/460280_322434661165880_471895782_o.jpg https://www.feuerwehr-neuried.de/?a=freie_fahrt_fuer_die_feuerwehr Here's an example requirement definition from Munich: https://www.muenchen.de/rathaus/dam/jcr:89f1f227-a071-4efa-ab22-1afa11e3f78b/Antrag_F_Schlie%C3%9Fung_Objekte_ohne_BMZ_20160525.pdf Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
access=no should be enough, if parking searcher is not handling access=no/access=private it is broken anyway Oct 28, 2020, 09:19 by lrich...@posteo.de: > > I think here it would better to use the primary name space of emergency, > similar to disused/abandoned, so that routers/data providers that don't > consider this tag won't lead people to park there. > > On 28/10/2020 05:21, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: > >> >> >> >> Oct 28, 2020, 03:22 by >> andrew.harv...@gmail.com>> : >> >>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 at 13:20, Jonathon Rossi<>>> >>> j...@jonorossi.com>>> >wrote: >>> We've got emergency=landing_site for helicopters, maybe just emergency=parking? >>> >>> I like that, areas set aside for parking by emergency >>> vehicles. >>> >> >> amenity=parking access=no emergency=yes >> seems a better fit to me >> >> ___Tagging mailing list>> >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
I that case amenity=parking would not fit. I thought that "areas set aside for parking by emergency vehicles" would be parking with special restrictions (and some of them exist, for example hospitals or healthcare locations may have dedicated parking spaces or entire parking lots reserved for emergency vehicles, https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/407300815 is an internal parking of a fire station and so on). Oct 28, 2020, 09:39 by supap...@riseup.net: > > "parking" should not be used for this, because in many cases these areas > have nothing in common with a parking lot. This meadow, for example, is > explicitly a rescue area, but definitely not a parking lot: > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/503246160> (and I think, by the way, that > in case of an emergency it's not just about "parking", but also setting > up equipment, turning vehicles around etc.) > > > In my opinion the key "emergency" is perfect for such cases. > > > For the use at roads, however, there is "parking:lane: = > fire_lane" if a lane is designated like this. > > > > > Am 28.10.20 um 06:21 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging: > >> Oct 28, 2020, 03:22 by >> andrew.harv...@gmail.com>> : >> >>> On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 at 13:20, Jonathon Rossi <> >>> j...@jonorossi.com>>> > >>> > wrote: >>> We've got emergency=landing_site for helicopters, maybe just emergency=parking? >>> I like that, areas set aside for parking by emergency vehicles. >>> >> amenity=parking access=no emergency=yesseems a better fit to me >> >> ___Tagging mailing list>> >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
sent from a phone > On 28. Oct 2020, at 03:02, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > Thanks, Supa - it's not a concept that I've ever heard of in Australia! maybe you don’t signpost these? Every country has fire regulations for buildings which include guaranteeing accessibility for fire fighters in case of fire (not all may enforce them), for example German regulations date back to the middle ages. The areas in question are about accessibility of the building from the outside (space where equipment like vehicles and ladders are placed), and they do not exist for every building, only bigger buildings (not everything reachable from the street), like big public buildings or residential complexes have to provide them. I would see these as a property more than a feature (this lawn will also be used by fire fighters, or this paved area has to be kept free of parking vehicles and other potential obstacles because of fire regulations), because it is about additional usage restrictions for parts of the outside areas. Admittedly in some cases you could also see them as proper features (“Feuerwehraufstellfläche”) if the space really isn’t used otherwise, it may be a question of interpretation Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
Better use the key "description" instead of "name". Apart from that in my opinion you can do it like this. More problematic is the access road (apparently not mapped by you): On some sections it is drawn twice over the footways/path and "name" is used here as well. As I already mentioned in a mail from yesterday, it would probably be better to assign an access value like "motor_vehicle = emergency" to the footways/path instead? Am 28.10.20 um 06:51 schrieb Nüssli Christian (SRZ): > Hello Supaplex > > Thank you very much for your explanation for others. It's exactly what I > meant. It's areas especially designed for emergency vehicles, e.g a ladder > which will reach most of the areas from a bulding. I think parking would be > the wrong approach, because it's not really a parking, more a working are. I > like emergency=service_area or better emergency=rescue_area. > > I made the mentioned military area to the real situation with your taggings: > https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/860308598 > What do you think about? > > Kind regards > > Christian > > Freundliche Grüsse > Christian Nüssli > Applikationsverantwortlicher ELZ > > Stadt Zürich > Schutz & Rettung > Direktwahl +41 44 411 22 85 > > Schutz & Rettung Zürich ist Top Employer 2020! > Weitere Infos: > www.stadt-zuerich.ch/srz-top-employer<https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/pd/de/index/schutz_u_rettung_zuerich/medien/medienmitteilungen_-berichte/2020/februar/srz_erneut_als_einzigeverwaltungmittopemployerlabelausgezeic.html> > Von: Supaplex > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Oktober 2020 00:40 > An: tagging@openstreetmap.org > Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency > > > We (or Christian) are talking about areas that must be kept free, especially > near buildings, so that fire brigade vehicles can stand and work there in > case of an emergency. For example, it is not allowed to park there, no > objects may be placed there etc. In German-speaking countries it is very > common to find areas that are specially designated for this use (I don't know > what the situation is like in other countries). These areas can be e.g. paved > areas or just grass, sometimes with surface=grass_paver (these areas must be > able to carry vehicles weighing up to 16 tons). I think tagging of these > areas is very useful for use by rescue services, as Christian apparently > intends to do, or for micro mapping purposes. > > How about "emergency = rescue_area" (very rarely in use)? I agree that > landuse should not be used in this case, but we have "emergency" for this. > For fire fighters access ways there is already "highway = service" + "service > = emergency access" in use (see > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:service%3Demergency_access). > > (Another question I ask myself in this context: How do you mark footways/path > that serve as fire fighter access - i.e. are designated, suitable and wide > enough for this purpose? I have already used "highway = footway" + > "motor_vehicle = emergency" in these cases.) > > Am 28.10.20 um 00:05 schrieb Robert Delmenico: > > I'm not sure what you're referring to but I'll put some options here to > > discuss: > > > > Fire districts: used for declaring total for bans in Australia > > https://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/warnings-restrictions/find-your-fire-district > > > > > > Neighbourhood safer places in Victoria - where you can go as a last resort > > in a bushfire situation > > https://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/plan-prepare/neighbourhood-safer-places > > > > > > There are also administrative fire service regions/districts in Victoria > > but there would be minimal value in mapping these. > > https://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/about/where-we-are > > > > > > There are training grounds used solely for training emergency service > > personnel > > https://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/about/victorian-emergency-management-training-centres > > > > > > > > There is land which the fire stations sit on > > amenity=fire_station > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dfire_station > > > > > > Then there is the fire stations > > building=fire_station > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dfire_station > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Rob > > > > > > On Wed, 28 Oct 2020, 9:20 am Graeme Fitzpatrick, > <mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Christian > > > > On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 at 18:35, Nüssli Christian (SRZ) < > > christi
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
"parking" should not be used for this, because in many cases these areas have nothing in common with a parking lot. This meadow, for example, is explicitly a rescue area, but definitely not a parking lot: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/503246160 (and I think, by the way, that in case of an emergency it's not just about "parking", but also setting up equipment, turning vehicles around etc.) In my opinion the key "emergency" is perfect for such cases. For the use at roads, however, there is "parking:lane: = fire_lane" if a lane is designated like this. Am 28.10.20 um 06:21 schrieb Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging: > > > Oct 28, 2020, 03:22 by andrew.harv...@gmail.com: > >> On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 at 13:20, Jonathon Rossi <> j...@jonorossi.com> > wrote: >> >>> We've got emergency=landing_site for helicopters, maybe just >>> emergency=parking? >>> >> I like that, areas set aside for parking by emergency vehicles. >> > amenity=parking access=no emergency=yes > seems a better fit to me > > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
I think here it would better to use the primary name space of emergency, similar to disused/abandoned, so that routers/data providers that don't consider this tag won't lead people to park there. On 28/10/2020 05:21, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote: Oct 28, 2020, 03:22 by andrew.harv...@gmail.com: On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 at 13:20, Jonathon Rossi mailto:j...@jonorossi.com>> wrote: We've got emergency=landing_site for helicopters, maybe just emergency=parking? I like that, areas set aside for parking by emergency vehicles. amenity=parking access=no emergency=yes seems a better fit to me ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
Sounds line what are signed as “fire lanes” in the United States. -- Sent from my phone, please forgive my brevity. > On Tuesday, Oct 27, 2020 at 6:59 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick > mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com)> wrote: > > > On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 at 09:43, Supaplex (mailto:supap...@riseup.net)> wrote: > > > > We (or Christian) are talking about areas that must be kept free, > > especially near buildings, so that fire brigade vehicles can stand and work > > there in case of an emergency. > > > > > > > Thanks, Supa - it's not a concept that I've ever heard of in Australia! Our > firies just park in the street as needed! > > > > I think tagging of these areas is very useful for use by rescue services, > > > > > > Yes, probably would be. > > > > > > > > > > > How about "emergency = rescue_area" (very rarely in use)? I agree that > > landuse should not be used in this case, but we have "emergency" for this. > > > > > > As I say, I've never looked at it, but would emergency=clear_area work? > > > Thanks > > Graeme > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
Hello Supaplex Thank you very much for your explanation for others. It's exactly what I meant. It's areas especially designed for emergency vehicles, e.g a ladder which will reach most of the areas from a bulding. I think parking would be the wrong approach, because it's not really a parking, more a working are. I like emergency=service_area or better emergency=rescue_area. I made the mentioned military area to the real situation with your taggings: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/860308598 What do you think about? Kind regards Christian Freundliche Grüsse Christian Nüssli Applikationsverantwortlicher ELZ Stadt Zürich Schutz & Rettung Direktwahl +41 44 411 22 85 Schutz & Rettung Zürich ist Top Employer 2020! Weitere Infos: www.stadt-zuerich.ch/srz-top-employer<https://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/pd/de/index/schutz_u_rettung_zuerich/medien/medienmitteilungen_-berichte/2020/februar/srz_erneut_als_einzigeverwaltungmittopemployerlabelausgezeic.html> Von: Supaplex Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Oktober 2020 00:40 An: tagging@openstreetmap.org Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency We (or Christian) are talking about areas that must be kept free, especially near buildings, so that fire brigade vehicles can stand and work there in case of an emergency. For example, it is not allowed to park there, no objects may be placed there etc. In German-speaking countries it is very common to find areas that are specially designated for this use (I don't know what the situation is like in other countries). These areas can be e.g. paved areas or just grass, sometimes with surface=grass_paver (these areas must be able to carry vehicles weighing up to 16 tons). I think tagging of these areas is very useful for use by rescue services, as Christian apparently intends to do, or for micro mapping purposes. How about "emergency = rescue_area" (very rarely in use)? I agree that landuse should not be used in this case, but we have "emergency" for this. For fire fighters access ways there is already "highway = service" + "service = emergency access" in use (see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:service%3Demergency_access). (Another question I ask myself in this context: How do you mark footways/path that serve as fire fighter access - i.e. are designated, suitable and wide enough for this purpose? I have already used "highway = footway" + "motor_vehicle = emergency" in these cases.) Am 28.10.20 um 00:05 schrieb Robert Delmenico: I'm not sure what you're referring to but I'll put some options here to discuss: Fire districts: used for declaring total for bans in Australia https://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/warnings-restrictions/find-your-fire-district Neighbourhood safer places in Victoria - where you can go as a last resort in a bushfire situation https://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/plan-prepare/neighbourhood-safer-places There are also administrative fire service regions/districts in Victoria but there would be minimal value in mapping these. https://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/about/where-we-are There are training grounds used solely for training emergency service personnel https://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/about/victorian-emergency-management-training-centres There is land which the fire stations sit on amenity=fire_station https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dfire_station Then there is the fire stations building=fire_station https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dfire_station Kind regards, Rob On Wed, 28 Oct 2020, 9:20 am Graeme Fitzpatrick, <mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Christian On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 at 18:35, Nüssli Christian (SRZ) < christian.nues...@zuerich.ch<mailto:christian.nues...@zuerich.ch>> wrote: I wanted to ask you if there's a correct mapping of fire service areas. That's areas in fire protection guidelines that will be reserved for emergency vehicles. Sorry, but what do you mean by "fire service areas", & "reserved for emergency vehicles"? Are you referring to fire stations & emergency lanes? I found quite a few that are tagged as landuse=military which is in my opinion – the incorrect way. No, not even knowing for sure what we're talking about, but I can see that would be wrong! Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org<mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org<mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
Oct 28, 2020, 03:22 by andrew.harv...@gmail.com: > On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 at 13:20, Jonathon Rossi <> j...@jonorossi.com> > wrote: > >> We've got emergency=landing_site for helicopters, maybe just >> emergency=parking? >> > > I like that, areas set aside for parking by emergency vehicles. > amenity=parking access=no emergency=yes seems a better fit to me ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 at 13:20, Jonathon Rossi wrote: > We've got emergency=landing_site for helicopters, maybe just > emergency=parking? > I like that, areas set aside for parking by emergency vehicles. ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
On Wed, Oct 28, 2020 at 12:02 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 at 09:43, Supaplex wrote: > >> How about *"emergency = rescue_area"* (very rarely in use)? I agree that >> landuse should not be used in this case, but we have "emergency" for this. >> > As I say, I've never looked at it, but would emergency=clear_area work? > I've seen "ambulance only" and "no parking emergency vehicle only" painted on the ground in shopping centre car parks near entrances and in front of large buildings here in Australia. I assume the intent for this tag isn't just firies? We've got emergency=landing_site for helicopters, maybe just emergency=parking? -- Jono ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
On Wed, 28 Oct 2020 at 09:43, Supaplex wrote: > We (or Christian) are talking about areas that must be kept free, > especially near buildings, so that fire brigade vehicles can stand and work > there in case of an emergency. > Thanks, Supa - it's not a concept that I've ever heard of in Australia! Our firies just park in the street as needed! > I think tagging of these areas is very useful for use by rescue services, > Yes, probably would be. > How about *"emergency = rescue_area"* (very rarely in use)? I agree that > landuse should not be used in this case, but we have "emergency" for this. > As I say, I've never looked at it, but would emergency=clear_area work? Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
We (or Christian) are talking about areas that must be kept free, especially near buildings, so that fire brigade vehicles can stand and work there in case of an emergency. For example, it is not allowed to park there, no objects may be placed there etc. In German-speaking countries it is very common to find areas that are specially designated for this use (I don't know what the situation is like in other countries). These areas can be e.g. paved areas or just grass, sometimes with surface=grass_paver (these areas must be able to carry vehicles weighing up to 16 tons). I think tagging of these areas is very useful for use by rescue services, as Christian apparently intends to do, or for micro mapping purposes. How about *"emergency = rescue_area"* (very rarely in use)? I agree that landuse should not be used in this case, but we have "emergency" for this. For fire fighters access ways there is already "highway = service" + "service = emergency access" in use (see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:service%3Demergency_access). (Another question I ask myself in this context: How do you mark footways/path that serve as fire fighter access - i.e. are designated, suitable and wide enough for this purpose? I have already used "highway = footway" + "motor_vehicle = emergency" in these cases.) Am 28.10.20 um 00:05 schrieb Robert Delmenico: > I'm not sure what you're referring to but I'll put some options here to > discuss: > > Fire districts: used for declaring total for bans in Australia > https://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/warnings-restrictions/find-your-fire-district > > > Neighbourhood safer places in Victoria - where you can go as a last resort > in a bushfire situation > https://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/plan-prepare/neighbourhood-safer-places > > > There are also administrative fire service regions/districts in Victoria > but there would be minimal value in mapping these. > https://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/about/where-we-are > > > There are training grounds used solely for training emergency service > personnel > https://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/about/victorian-emergency-management-training-centres > > > > There is land which the fire stations sit on > amenity=fire_station > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dfire_station > > > Then there is the fire stations > building=fire_station > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dfire_station > > Kind regards, > > Rob > > > On Wed, 28 Oct 2020, 9:20 am Graeme Fitzpatrick, > wrote: > >> >> Hi Christian >> >> On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 at 18:35, Nüssli Christian (SRZ) < >> christian.nues...@zuerich.ch> wrote: >> >>> I wanted to ask you if there's a correct mapping of fire service areas. >>> That's areas in fire protection guidelines that will be reserved for >>> emergency vehicles. >>> >> Sorry, but what do you mean by "fire service areas", & "reserved for >> emergency vehicles"? >> >> Are you referring to fire stations & emergency lanes? >> >> I found quite a few that are tagged as landuse=military which is in my >>> opinion – the incorrect way. >>> >> No, not even knowing for sure what we're talking about, but I can see that >> would be wrong! >> >> Thanks >> >> Graeme >> >> ___ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
I'm not sure what you're referring to but I'll put some options here to discuss: Fire districts: used for declaring total for bans in Australia https://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/warnings-restrictions/find-your-fire-district Neighbourhood safer places in Victoria - where you can go as a last resort in a bushfire situation https://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/plan-prepare/neighbourhood-safer-places There are also administrative fire service regions/districts in Victoria but there would be minimal value in mapping these. https://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/about/where-we-are There are training grounds used solely for training emergency service personnel https://www.cfa.vic.gov.au/about/victorian-emergency-management-training-centres There is land which the fire stations sit on amenity=fire_station https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dfire_station Then there is the fire stations building=fire_station https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dfire_station Kind regards, Rob On Wed, 28 Oct 2020, 9:20 am Graeme Fitzpatrick, wrote: > > > Hi Christian > > On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 at 18:35, Nüssli Christian (SRZ) < > christian.nues...@zuerich.ch> wrote: > >> I wanted to ask you if there's a correct mapping of fire service areas. >> That's areas in fire protection guidelines that will be reserved for >> emergency vehicles. >> > > Sorry, but what do you mean by "fire service areas", & "reserved for > emergency vehicles"? > > Are you referring to fire stations & emergency lanes? > > I found quite a few that are tagged as landuse=military which is in my >> opinion – the incorrect way. >> > > No, not even knowing for sure what we're talking about, but I can see that > would be wrong! > > Thanks > > Graeme > > ___ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging > ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
Hi Christian On Tue, 27 Oct 2020 at 18:35, Nüssli Christian (SRZ) < christian.nues...@zuerich.ch> wrote: > I wanted to ask you if there's a correct mapping of fire service areas. > That's areas in fire protection guidelines that will be reserved for > emergency vehicles. > Sorry, but what do you mean by "fire service areas", & "reserved for emergency vehicles"? Are you referring to fire stations & emergency lanes? I found quite a few that are tagged as landuse=military which is in my > opinion – the incorrect way. > No, not even knowing for sure what we're talking about, but I can see that would be wrong! Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
Re: [Tagging] Tagging from fire_service_areas - landuse:emergency
sent from a phone > On 27. Oct 2020, at 09:35, Nüssli Christian > wrote: > I wanted to ask you if there's a correct mapping of fire service areas. > That's areas in fire protection guidelines that will be reserved for > emergency vehicles. > > I found quite a few that are tagged as landuse=military which is in my > opinion – the incorrect way. > > > > I would like to propose a tag like this: landuse:emergency=fire_service_area > or landuse:emergency=fire_department > I would not make a landuse of these. My suggestion would be for using a different key for it, maybe “emergency”? No idea about the correct term in english, deepl suggests fire brigade area. Cheers Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
