Re: [GTALUG] alternatives to gmail working well in Ubintu?

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hi Karen,

I'm not sure if I fully understand your requirements.

But I myself went through a very long and arduous search for an email hosting 
service provider a few years ago, when AT shut down their email hosting 
service,

I decided to register my own domain name so that I would never ever again have 
to fo thorugh the huge task of notifying recipients of the change in my emaii 
address. And not go through the even more onerous task of upating numerous 
online services and forums where I am registered through my email address.

For sure you would be wise  to get away from an evil player like Google. Make 
competition work for you by going with a  large established provider, but not a 
monstrous monopoly like Google.

* * *
* * *

The task for me came down to finding a good reliable web hosting service that 
also offered email hosting.

Although there are many other equally great hosting services out there, I am 
happy I chose to use 

www.siteground.com

They are not the least expensive service but well worth the money I pay every 
month. Rock-solid reliable infrastructure and exceptionally literate and 
knowledgeable support team.

The spam filtering offered by Siteground as basic functionality works well for 
me. Never a false rejection of a legitimate email and very few 
spam-suspect-quarantined emails for me to handle.

Siteground provides a choice of three (3) HTML webmail user interfaces. I use 
RoundCube, the open source one, because I favour open source if at all 
possible. I use the Comodo Dragon web browser with RoundCube webmail interface, 
as Dragon seems to work better that Firefox.

Although I actually fetch all my emails via POP3 and keep them on my local PC, 
I also use the Siteground webmail interface as a backup and to help me with 
issues when MS Outlook Express on WIn XP mysteriously fails to fetch the 
occasional email via POP3.

I acces RoundCube webmail from an ancient Dell Win XP PC, using a slow dialup 
landline modem. The low screen resolution is not a problem. I'm somewhat 
sight-impaired so I zoom in a little for better readability. 

* * *
* * *

I am now working to migrate off the Win XP PC to a new PC running debian Linux.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Steve

* * *

Steve Petrie, P.Eng.

Oakville, Ontario, Canada
(905) 847-3253
apet...@aspetrie.net

- Original Message - 
  From: Karen Lewellen via talk 
  To: Evan Leibovitch 
  Cc: Karen Lewellen ; GTALUG Talk 
  Sent: Friday, November 15, 2019 12:53 PM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] alternatives to gmail working well in Ubintu?


  Hi Evan
  I am using Pine to write this e-mail as Shellworld makes it available.
  Again, for this  gmail address , I prefer Google's front 
  end.
  I actually cannot add an extra client to this shell service as it 
  functions more  as an iSP.
  Thanks,
  Karen


  On Fri, 15 Nov 2019, Evan Leibovitch wrote:

  > Hi Karen,
  >
  > I haven't done this in a while from a desktop, but the access from
  > Thunderbird etc to Gmail is not done through screen readers but rather the
  > venerable IMAP protocol which is supported.
  > https://support.google.com/mail/answer/7126229?hl=en
  > This is most commonly used by mobile, where there are a number of email
  > interfaces that people may prefer to Gmail's front end. Even Outlook for
  > Android supports this.
  >
  > From a low-graphics PoV I have to go back to my brain's archives, but there
  > are still readers out there that don't require a GUI. My old favourite
  > "Pine" is no longer under development but its successor and a few others
  > are.
  > https://fedoramagazine.org/3-cool-text-based-email-clients/
  >
  > HTH,
  >
  > - Evan
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > On Fri, 15 Nov 2019 at 11:25, Karen Lewellen via talk 
  > wrote:
  >
  >> sorry James, i did not realize you were using adaptive technology.
  >> May I ask how you will manage once Google, as they plan, block all third
  >> party  screen readers?
  >> Sorry if I seem frustrated, but I asked a very specific question, not to
  >> have   my choices dismissed because you do things differently.
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> On Thu, 14 Nov 2019, James Knott via talk wrote:
  >>
  >>> On 2019-11-14 10:00 PM, Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
    I was going to just ask for alternatives to consider, but want to keep
  >> the
    Linux element here as I mainly use a Ubuntu shell.
    Now that google is making it  profoundly difficult reaching basic html
  >> in
    low graphics environments, I may need a new home.  I prefer reading on
    the web for this account, especially as I use it largely for research
    needing to follow article links and work with file attachments.
    Any solid ideas?
  >>>
  >>> I prefer using an email client such as Seamonkey or Thunderbird, to a
  >>> browser.  They work fine.
  >>>
  >>> ---
  >>> Post to this mailing list talk@gtalug.org
  >>> Unsubscribe from this mailing list
  >> https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
  >>>
  >>> ---
  >> 

Re: [GTALUG] Samsung router?

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Consider Asking About Network Gear Options On The DragonFlyBSD OS Email 
Forum (dfly, dragonflybsd.org) ??


I gave been an entranced lurker on the dfly forum for years. Still have 
an experimental dfly installation on a hosted virtual server. Not 
touched it in years, due to other priorities.


However, I get the impression that dfly is a highly reliable and 
performant, resource efficient os with an outstanding file system option 
(hammer, hammer2) and a networking stack of notable efficiency.


Sime dfly forum posts have given me the impression that dfly finds use 
running networking functionality (e.g. router, switch) of the sort under 
disscussion on this GTALUG thread.


* * *
* * *

My interest here is more than academic.

Presently I am migrating my business and personal computing lives, to a 
custom-built PC running linux debian 9, from an ancient Dell PC running 
Windows XP SP3.


I plan initially to continue using POTS dial-up over twsted-pair copper 
landline, for Internet access on the new debian box. Thanks to earlier 
GTALUG advice, I already connect the new debian box using a U.S. 
Robotics USB modem.


But my plan is to upgrade the new debian PC with higher speed Internet 
access in the 100's mbs range. And a separate dedicated box running dfly 
+ nw app software, might be an option there.


* * *
* * *

Frankly, the subject of networking just gives me a sinking feeling. I 
really have no desire to learn more than the bare minimum about 
networking !! My ideal would be for experts to give me a shopping list 
of acronyms and the elevator pitch on each acronym, that I can use when 
shopping for the new networking solution for the debian PC ...


Steve

- Original Message - 
From: James Knott via talk

To: talk@gtalug.org
Cc: James Knott
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2019 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Samsung router?


On 2019-08-28 08:34 PM, Alvin Starr via talk wrote:

When looking for a switch it is always worth while to go on the
manufacturers web site and check the user manuals.
The retailers are a bit slipshod with their technical information at
times.



Take a look at the specification tab on that site. There's also a link
to the data sheet, on the documentation tab. A bit more searching might
turn up a manual. We agree that the Canada Computers site is a bit
short on info.


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Re: [GTALUG] Looking for Someone to Answer some Question

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

- Original Message - 
From: "xerofoify via talk" 

To: "Tim Tisdall via talk" 
Cc: "xerofoify" 
Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Looking for Someone to Answer some Question


On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 10:53 PM William Park via talk 
 wrote:


On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 07:49:15PM -0500, Kevin Cozens via talk 
wrote:

> On 2019-01-14 12:35 a.m., William Park via talk wrote:
> > It so happens that I'm looking for interpretor suitable for 
> > embedded

> > applications. I read up on "Lua".  Maybe there are other options?
>






Main feature I need is ability to save "state" of some data 
structure,

say variables, array, or dictionary, without having to parse/reparse
when writing/reading from filesystem.  Python can do that.  I can do
that in C too.  My last choice would be SQLite, though, it has its
advantages.
--
William Park 
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This is my reply to both Tim first.

Tim: My Recommendations would be to see if you can find an embedded
version of SQLite or another
library that meets your requirement.




BerkelyDB might be another option for storing an enbedded application's 
non-volatile data.


BerkelyDB is now owned by Oracle, but I believe there is an open-source 
version available) BerkelyDB could be more performant than SQLite and 
also could have a smaller footprint. In complexity, BerkelyDB would fit 
between SQLite and parsing the embedded app's non-volatile date out of a 
file(s) in the barebones filesystem.


I myself an considering migrating a PostgreSQL database (used by a 
PHP-based website app) to (an open source version of) BerkelyDB, because 
of the BerkelyDB claim that it requires "zero administration". If true, 
this "zero administration" feature sounds to me like a great fit for an 
embedded app..


Steve

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Re: [GTALUG] Looking for Someone to Answer some Question

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

  - Original Message - 
  From: xerofoify via talk 
  To: Tim Tisdall via talk 
  Cc: xerofoify 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2019 11:57 AM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Looking for Someone to Answer some Question


  On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 10:53 PM William Park via talk  
wrote:
  >
  > On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 07:49:15PM -0500, Kevin Cozens via talk wrote:
  > > On 2019-01-14 12:35 a.m., William Park via talk wrote:

  
  >
  > Main feature I need is ability to save "state" of some data structure,
  > say variables, array, or dictionary, without having to parse/reparse
  > when writing/reading from filesystem.  Python can do that.  I can do
  > that in C too.  My last choice would be SQLite, though, it has its
  > advantages.
  > --
  > William Park 
  > ---
  > Talk Mailing List
  > talk@gtalug.org
  > https://gtalug.org/mailman/listinfo/talk

  This is my reply to both Tim first.

  Tim: My Recommendations would be to see if you can find an embedded
  version of SQLite or another
  library that meets your requirement. 

  
  Thanks for all the help for everyone,

  Nick
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Re: [GTALUG] looking for a tool to transform table relationships

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

You could also consult the PostgreSQL users email forum 
pgsql-gene...@lists.postgresql.org

Needs registration, but when I was receiving the forum messages, I noticed that 
participants were always promptly helpful to all comers. But sometimes there is 
a LOT of email traffic.

I dropped out from this PosthreSQL forum a while ago, just because I chose 
another direction for my database application. Nothing wrong with PostgreSQL at 
all -- it's a great product.

Steve

- Original Message - 
  From: Alex Volkov via talk 
  To: GTALUG Talk 
  Sent: Friday, July 20, 2018 1:42 PM
  Subject: [GTALUG] looking for a tool to transform table relationships


  Hey Everyone,

  I'm looking for a tool to transform (possibly migrate) data from one 
  postgres db to another.

  I have two postgres databases -- old (not normalized) has all the data 
  and new (normalized with some major schema changes) has no data.

  The new db has more tables and table relationship structured 
  differently, some data residing in old db is in text column in csv 
  format, whereas in new database it's a separate table, and so on.

  I've been thinking of writing a script that would just transform data 
  from one format to the other, but before writing a bunch of code that's 
  going to be run exactly once, I'm wondering if there a tool out there 
  which I can use to express one-way transformation rules for these databases.


  Thanks,


  Alex.

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Re: [GTALUG] Web hosting companies providing Linux shell accounts?

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

- Original Message - 
From: "Karen Lewellen via talk" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2018 8:56 PM
Subject: [GTALUG] Web hosting companies providing Linux shell accounts?



Hi All,
The organization for whom I work presently has a shared hosting 
account with dreamhost.  Recently though they made a change that 
prevents me from accessing my work shell account with the combination 
of adaptive technology tools I must use.
so, I am seeking a new hosting that includes shell accounts with their 
offerings,  Dreamhost used Ubuntu, but I have done this with freebsd 
as well.

Ideas of where to start?
Thanks,
Karen


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Hi Karen,

Not sure what you're looking for in technical facilities, but here are 
my recommendations.


I use two (2) hosting services, one for my personal / business hosting, 
and the other for a specific website hosting project, that has been 
dormant for some time:


www.siteground.com

I use SG for POP3 & SMTP email hosting (personal and business), hosting 
a few web pages http://aspetrie.net/ and hosting some documents for 
secure FTP access by other people.


I find SG to be an excellent company. Rock-solid reliable 
infrastructure. It just works (has for me). Exceptionally knowledgeable 
and responsive technical support. Not the least expensive hosting 
service, but worth every dollar for hassle-free and worry-free hosting.


SG are focused more on clients using mainstream tools for website 
building and operation (e.g. WordPress). Not sure about shell accounts. 
It's something I have had in the back of my mind to ask SG about ...


www.elastichosts.com

I chose EH for running my own choice of operating systems on a hosted 
virtual server setup. Running  two operating systems: debian Linux and 
DragpnFlyBSD. Both under QEMU / KVM virtualization.


Did a bunch of prelimary work to get both these OSs up and running 
successfully on EH VPSs in shell text-conaole mode. Due to other 
priorities, haven't worked on this EH setup fior many months. But I keep 
paying the bill becaue I don't want to lose all the work already done.


Like SG, EH is not the least expensive, but worth every dollar.

The few times I've checked my EH virtual servers, everythig started up 
just fine.


I get occasional notificaiton emails from EH about planned service 
maintenance / upgrades. Also advisories regarding fixes I should install 
for critical security patches.


As with SG above, the EH infrastructure seems rock-solid and the 
technical support I experienced was excellent, too.


For sure you can use EH to run Linux with remote shell access. EH also 
have the VNC stuff for when your Linux is borked and you still need to 
be able to mess around with some terminal access to the borked-Linux 
virtual machine.


HTH.

Steve 


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Re: [GTALUG] New Desktop PC -- debian Linux - Proposed 2 TB HDDPartitioning;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Perfect timing for continuation of this thread.

My new ly builtPC (replacing Windows XP on a ancient Dell) is home and I'm 
getting acquainted with a simple standard debian Linux installation that is 
all-in-one-partition except for swap.

Now finalizing the partitioning design for the "real" debian install.

So the resumption of this thread, with tips on partitioning, UEFI and SSD is 
most welcome !!

Ideas duly extracted from the messages for further consideration.

Steve

From: Russell via talk 
  To: D. Hugh Redelmeier ; GTALUG Talk ; D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk 
  Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2018 8:20 AM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] New Desktop PC -- debian Linux - Proposed 2 TB 
HDDPartitioning; 


  On April 11, 2018 7:02:56 PM EDT, "D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk" 
 wrote:
  >| From: Giles Orr via talk 
  >
  >Clunk Clunk Clunk (I'm nodding my head).
  >
  >| I'm with Len - simplify if you can.  Although Unlike him, I believe
  >you
  >| should have at least two (Linux) OS partitions - if one is messed up,
  >you
  >| can boot from the other to fix it.  And I've also - more than once -

  I also follow this practice. In fact in my current build, I'm looking at 
overprovisioning my SSD using small fencing stripes. This would so as to be 
able to gain several spaces on the disk which I could format in an emergency. I 
can then recover a backup of the superblock and realign things. In theory 
anyway.

  >had to
  >| tinker with two OSes (usually Debian vs. Fedora) to figure out which
  >worked
  >| best on a particular machine.  So I always have at least two OS

  Currently I have two versions of the same os on the same machine. One on M.2 
Xpoint nvram and one on a standard SSD. I'm playing around with tweaking before 
I do a final config. So far the Xpoint direct hw access appears 3x as fast as 
the SSD while real world throughput shows up about twice as fast on the Xpoint, 
recent INTEL cache fencing notwithstanding.

  dd if=/dev/zero bs=1M count=1024 | md5sum
  1024+0 records in
  1024+0 records out
  1073741824 bytes (1.1 GB, 1.0 GiB) copied, 1.35008 s, 795 MB/s
  cd573cfaace07e7949bc0c46028904ff -

  795 is just under twice as fast as writing to the conventional SSD.

  >
  >I used to always have two / partitions for two separate OSes.  When a
  >new OS release came out, I always did a fresh install into the other /
  >partition.  This meant that the old system could still be run.  Now
  >I've gotten a bit lazy and do upgrades in place.  Still, having space
  >for a separate installation is comforting.
  >
  >Fedora seems to have been trustable with upgrades-in-place for a few
  >years.

  I'm currently on Fedora 27 with Gnome using the Nouveau driver. I usually 
never automatically update but while I sort this new box and throughout the 
Spectre stuff, updates are automatic. This release had both the gnome update 
notifier and dnfdragora enabled by default which was confusing at first but I 
got used to it.

  >According to Lennart, debian has been trustable for a long long time.

  I was frozen at 2.6 on Debian till 2010 or so. I didn't automatically upgrade 
during that time but as I recall when I did there were few problems. Notably 
the introduction of pulse audio and ongoing issues with xsane and colord 
profiles. Although recently I switched back to RH for myself. I did this once 
it looked like SElinux was sorted in respect of systemd. I made the switch, 
mostly to align myself more in keeping with FOSS libraries.

  >
  >|  And in the name of simplicity, each OS partition includes its
  >| own /var, /usr, /usr/local ... the only separate partitions are swap
  >and
  >| /home, because I want that to be separate and accessible to each of
  >the OS
  >| partitions - and separate and not affected by OS upgrades.
  >
  >Superstitiously, I won't let different distros share a /home.  I fear
  >a conflicting set of config files.  I don't know that this is a
  >problem, I just don't really want to find out.

  When I first started my switch from DOS to *nix, I was told you absolutely 
don't want to run two versions of init on the same machine. I believe this is 
why userland programming uses telinit. It seems to me that not letting 
different distros share a home is a pretty sound idea, even if it is based on 
superstition.

  I forget the exact reasons I was given for always using telinit. However 
given the fine granularity and ballistic nature of the bits and dword bytes, I 
assume that it could be catastrophic to request pid1 and receive pid 1001. The 
audit trail to follow for recovery would be hard to follow without being able 
to distinguish the id as being from userland rather than kernelspace.

  >
  >For this reason, I don't tend to let /home fill the drive.  I invent
  >another filesystem to occupy any spare space.  Usually /space.

  I use /DATA, using caps is the way I remind myself, at a glance, that I 
created the space. 
  >
  >|  These days it
  >| 

Re: [GTALUG] New Desktop PC -- debian Linux - Proposed 2 TB HDDPartitioning;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Many Thanks To Lennart, Bob, Giles and D. Hugh,

All very helpful. Lots to think about.

* * *
* * *

As a result of earlier advice from GTALUG members, I have already prepared two 
(2) USB memory stcks with bootable images, for verifying that the fresh PC 
build can indeed (at least): 1. boot System Rescue and 2. do a standard Linux 
installation:
  a.. System Rescue;
  b.. debian Linux install;
Once I get this new "baby" home, I'll start tinkering to get a final HDD 
configuration and debian Linux installation.

* * *
* * *

Thanks also for much useful information around using VMs to run both Linux and 
Windows, elicited by Michael G. in thread subject "[GTALUG] VM decisions for 
school laptop..".

* * *
* * *

One poster remarked that I'm "overthinking" the partitioning. So true. My 
Mother was a pathologically nit-picking bookkeeper -- what can I say ?? This 
thoroughness heritage was both the strength and the weakness of my IT career. 

The unfortunate "overthinking" mental condition has much improved during the 
slow slide, since retirement, into old age (when mercifully, most of the brain 
cells for anxiety have died off from overuse :) ...

Kudos to GTALUG !!

Best,

Steve

- Original Message - 
  From: Giles Orr via talk 
  To: D. Hugh Redelmeier ; GTALUG Talk 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 7:56 PM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] New Desktop PC -- debian Linux - Proposed 2 TB 
HDDPartitioning; 


  On 11 April 2018 at 23:02, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk  
wrote:

| From: Giles Orr via talk 
|  These days it
| seems you want a /boot partition though - but I'm not the one to explain
| the ins and outs of that.

I've not seen a use for a /boot partition.

With UEFI booting, you need a separate EFI System Partition.  This
will be shared by all systems that boot off that drive.  This gets
mounted on the mount point /boot/efi.  It will be some variant of FAT
but the partition type will be distinct.



  To correct my own post based on what Hugh said ... I was both right and 
horribly wrong about that.  I was entirely correct "I'm not the one to explain 
[this]."  And horribly wrong: what you usually want is what Hugh said: an EFI 
System Partition.  I'd conflated that with a /boot/ partition because it 
appears there.  My apologies.


  -- 

  Giles
  https://www.gilesorr.com/
  giles...@gmail.com


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Re: [GTALUG] New Deaktop PC -- To Run debian Linux - PCPartPickerRecipe;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Many thanks to so many responders impossible to mention all individually !!

Have duly noted around a half-dozen configuration items of the build recipe, 
for review and no doubt at least some already for revision.

All postings greatly appreciated ...

Steve
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Re: [GTALUG] New Deaktop PC -- To Run debian Linux - PCPartPicker Recipe;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Giles, thanks for reply.

My remarks, questions below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
  From: Giles Orr 
  To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2018 12:14 PM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] New Deaktop PC -- To Run debian Linux - PCPartPicker 
Recipe;


  On 27 March 2018 at 09:08, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk <talk@gtalug.org> 
wrote:

Greetings To GTALUG,

At long last I have created a final build recipe for my new desktop PC to 
run debian Linux. Replacing an ancient Dell PC running WIndows XP:
  a.. https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/user/Steve_Petrie/saved/#view=krFNNG
 The configuration is an Asus LGA1151 socket motherboard with Intel i5-6500 
CPU and 16 GB DDR4 memory..

A dialup modem remains to be added: US Robotics USR5637 V.92 USB Faxmodem

Comments welcome.

* * *
* * *

My plan is to be ordering the parts by Friday 30 March or or Monday 2 April 
at the latest. The HP PS/2 keyboard and HP PS/2 mouse are already ordered (from 
PC-Canada) but that order is still on hold, pending addition of items to the 
order..


  It's probably too late to convince you of this (as I suspect it would 
strongly imply a move to a newer and more expensive processor) but getting 
USB-C and USB3.1 on the motherboard would be good.  You can _probably_ get a 
PCI-E card later, but I wonder if it will fully support USB-C's relatively 
complex alt-modes and etc.  Of course, it may not support them on the 
motherboard either, but I think it's worth a try.



***Good points. I will look into a possible motherboard upgrade to add USB-C 
and USB3.1.

  I'd also encourage you - fairly strongly - to not get PS/2 accessories.  
You're already encountering one of the problems, trying to plug two devices 
into one port - I suspect that won't go well for you.  Not only is USB much 
more versatile, it's much easier to "split," and add more ports.



***
*** I know that PS/2 is an ancient interface. I only chose PS/2 because it is 
my understanding that a PS/2 keyboard and mouse combination is better supported 
and earlier, during the actual Linux boot process, than a USB keyboard and 
mouse combination. So PS/2 keyboard and mouse offer more liklihood of 
functionality when there are Linux boot problems.

*** I also understand that USB keyboards and mice, take far more and more 
complex software drivers to be loaded before keyboard and mouse functionality 
appears. So a non-bootong Linux may not offer a functional USB keyboard / mouse 
service, whereas a PS/2 cpmbination might already be alive and functional.

*** If I'm wrong on this PS/2 versus USB keyboard / mouse boot-friendliness 
business, I will happily switch to using  USB keyboard / mouse.
  And finally, I'm in awe of your memory strategy.  But I totally agree: max 
out every slot - when you can afford it.  That's the way to go.  And 16G is 
already a decent baseline.

*** Confession: Actually, the choice of a single 16 GB memory DIMM came about 
at the end of an arduous and desperate search for ANY memory available in 
Canada at reasonable price, that is listed on the Asus motherboard's memory QVL 
(qualified vendor list).

*** But yes, I'm not unhappy to be keeping the full 64GB address space open. 

*** Is it just a superstition that I read somewhere, that there is there a 
memory access speed advantage, to using more DIMMs to get the desired total 
memory size ?? For example, that a dual-DIMM 2x8GB configuration provides 
faster memory access than a single DIMM 1x16GB ??

-- 

  Giles
  https://www.gilesorr.com/
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Re: [GTALUG] New Deaktop PC -- To Run debian Linux - PCPartPicker Recipe;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Lennart, thanks for reply.

My remarks below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
  From: Lennart Sorensen 
  To: Giles Orr ; GTALUG Talk 
  Cc: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2018 12:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] New Deaktop PC -- To Run debian Linux - PCPartPicker 
Recipe;


  On Tue, Mar 27, 2018 at 12:14:57PM -0400, Giles Orr via talk wrote:
  > It's probably too late to convince you of this (as I suspect it would

  Well I discovered on my laptop a few years ago that suspend to disk takes
  a very long time when you put 24GB ram in a laptop and use a 5400rpm disk.

  An SSD makes it much better of course.

*** Nice tip. I'll be sure to use the SSD not only for fast software loading, 
but also for suspend workspace.

-- 
Len Sorensen---
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[GTALUG] New Deaktop PC -- To Run debian Linux - PCPartPicker Recipe;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Greetings To GTALUG,

At long last I have created a final build recipe for my new desktop PC to run 
debian Linux. Replacing an ancient Dell PC running WIndows XP:
  a.. https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/user/Steve_Petrie/saved/#view=krFNNG
 The configuration is an Asus LGA1151 socket motherboard with Intel i5-6500 CPU 
and 16 GB DDR4 memory..

A dialup modem remains to be added: US Robotics USR5637 V.92 USB Faxmodem

Comments welcome.

* * *
* * *

My plan is to be ordering the parts by Friday 30 March or or Monday 2 April at 
the latest. The HP PS/2 keyboard and HP PS/2 mouse are already ordered (from 
PC-Canada) but that order is still on hold, pending addition of items to the 
order..

Steve

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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion.

All comments read with great interest.

* * *
* * *

I have been able to use a public-access workstation at my local public library 
branch, to download onto my USB hard drive (WD "Elements" model, pre-fomatted 
with NTFS):
  a.. the three debian Linux installation DVD isos; 
  b.. the System Rescue iso; 
  c.. the Windows installer .exe for unetbootin;
We are allowed to plug in our own USB devices (at least a USB hard drive works) 
to the library's public-access worlstations, and download files over the very 
fast Internet connection there.

* * *
* * *

I had thought that the three (3) DVDs listed on the 
:
   https://cdimage.debian.org/debiabn-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/

page, were all I needed to get a fairly current debian Linux installed on my 
new PC.

But now, with Lennart's comment about 3 BDs versus 13 DVDs, I'm very confused.

Looks like I need to do more research to understand exactly how many GB of 
debian Linux installation & update files, I am going to need to download.

I'm not a huge fan of doing massive software updates. I tend to be leery of 
just blindly updating software that is working fine. So picking and choosing 
what I update works for me.

Regardless, looks like its Back to the Browser, for more self-education ...

* * *
* * *

There is some kind of CD burning utility software icon, on the main desktop 
display of the library workstation, so I'm going to see if this software can 
create a bootable Syatem Rescue image on a USB memory stick, from the System 
Rescue iso I have already downloaded to my USB hard drive.

Given the low prices i am seeing for USB memory sticks, my thinking is to buy 
two (2) and use one for a System Rescue boot stick, and the other for a debian 
Linux installation boot stick.

Thanks again to all commenters ...

Best Regards,

Steve

* * *
Steve Petrie, P.Eng.

Oakville, Ontario, Canada
(905) 847-3253
apet...@aspetrie.net

- Original Message - 
  From: Lennart Sorensen via talk 
  To: Antonio Sun ; GTALUG Talk 
  Sent: Monday, March 05, 2018 10:16 AM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To 
Canadian Destination ??


  On Sat, Mar 03, 2018 at 10:52:45AM -0500, Antonio Sun via talk wrote:
  > - System Rescue iso is good for some one-off hacks e.g. disk manipulation
  > but not a good way to do Debian Linux Installation.
  > - Even if you get all three installation DVD images onto that 1TB USB
  > drive, that may still be a less optimal option as you most probably need
  > massive update during or right after the installation.
  > 
  > The least-trouble option, contrary to what it seems, is to take your
  > machine to your friend's place with high speed Internet connection, and do
  > the initial installation there. All other options just defer the problems,
  > which you will bump into sooner or later.

  Debian is not 3 DVD images.  It is 14 DVD images or 3 BD images.
  About 60GB total for the images.

  -- 
  Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - ShippedTo Canadian Destination ??

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Replies below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
  From: Russell via talk 
  To: Antonio Sun ; GTALUG Talk ; Antonio Sun via talk 
  Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2018 12:26 PM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - ShippedTo 
Canadian Destination ??




  On March 3, 2018 10:52:45 AM EST, Antonio Sun via talk  
wrote:
  >On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Steve Petrie P.Eng. wrote:
  >
  >>
  >> >3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking
  >hard
  >> >disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the
  >> >debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
  >> >

  

  >IMO,
  >
  >- System Rescue iso is good for some one-off hacks e.g. disk
  >manipulation
  >but not a good way to do Debian Linux Installation.

  Why not? It's a very small download, fits on a cd and as a live distro it 
supports multiple file systems. Its a pretty good way to get started with the 
look and feel of GNU linux. 

  Just remember to type startx at the console and you are good to go. You could 
explore and scarify old disks for reuse, or lay the foundations for the new. 

  >- Even if you get all three installation DVD images onto that 1TB USB
  >drive, that may still be a less optimal option as you most probably
  >need
  >massive update during or right after the installation.

  Updates are optional. If there is an issue for some security reasons, or 
something needs to be  managed under some policy or other, you will be glad you 
wet your feet on a live distro first.

  >
  >The least-trouble option, contrary to what it seems, is to take your
  >machine to your friend's place with high speed Internet connection, and
  >do
  >the initial installation there. All other options just defer the
  >problems,
  >which you will bump into sooner or later.

  I find a usb pen and a few disks to be a lot easier to carry around with me 
than an entire system assembly. They get heavy and you can bump into problems 
there as well. At least optical disks are cheap and resilient.
My mind did wander back to the advantages of DVD versus USB memory sticks. And 
the mention of "cheap and resilient" adds to the attraction. Maybe start with 
System Rescue on a CD / DVD.

And use USB memory stick(s) for the regular debian Linux install isos, that 
will need to be updated on a frequent basis ??

I need the optical drive on the new PC anyway, for playing music on a few CDs.

-- 
Russell
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Appreciate the offer of assist with dial-up !!

Steve

- Original Message - 
  From: Kevin Cozens via talk 
  To: talk@gtalug.org 
  Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2018 12:20 PM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To 
Canadian Destination ??


  On 2018-03-03 09:45 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
  > Probably�true that dial-up under Linux will be fiddly as heck ... 

  In my early days of using Linux I had used dial-up for Internet access. I 
  also wrote information in a book about how I had set things up so I could 
  reference the should I need it again.

  I have notes from 1995 about how I configured Linux to access the network of 
  the company I was working at via dial-up using pppd. I have notes from 
  October of 1996 where things had changed and the way to get a PPP link via 
  dial-up in Linux 2.0 was using dip.

  It has been a long time since I last used dial-up. I don't know if dip is 
  still the way to get dial-up network access or if there is something newer 
  available.

  pppd and dip will give you something to research. The GUI configuration 
  tools might have options that will make setting up dial-up easy. If not, I 
  can type up some of my notes for you of what I did back in the day.

  -- 
  Cheers!

  Kevin.

  http://www.ve3syb.ca/   |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
  Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
   | powerful!"
  #include  | --Chris Hardwick
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Pls. see below.

Steve

Oakville, Ontario, Canada
(905) 847-3253
apet...@aspetrie.net

  - Original Message - 
  From: Antonio Sun via talk 
  To: GTALUG Talk 
  Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2018 10:52 AM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To 
Canadian Destination ??






  On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Steve Petrie P.Eng. wrote:


  >3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking hard
  >disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the
  >debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
  >
  >4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet connection
  >so I'll see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto
  >that USB drive. We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that,
  >unfortunately. Then I'll try the Linux install from that USB drive.

  I know your final target is lxde but the System Rescue iso has a very 
small footprint and it is great for slow connections. I have done it for 
several people in the past and it contains number of very useful tools for disk 
manipulation. 

  IMO, 


  - System Rescue iso is good for some one-off hacks e.g. disk manipulation but 
not a good way to do Debian Linux Installation.
  - Even if you get all three installation DVD images onto that 1TB USB drive, 
that may still be a less optimal option as you most probably need massive 
update during or right after the installation. 


  The least-trouble option, contrary to what it seems, is to take your machine 
to your friend's place with high speed Internet connection, and do the initial 
installation there. All other options just defer the problems, which you will 
bump into sooner or later. 
I likely will be building the new PC at my friend's place. Before I teke the 
new PC home with me, to do all the work of installing debian Linux for regular 
use, I want to check the new PC to make sure that at least it can boot Linux 
and mess around with the hardware (e.g. create files).

System Rescue seems perfect to me, for doing this Linux compatibility 
pre-qualification at my friend's place.

* **
* * *

Certainly I could probably use my friend's high-speed link to do a painless 
install of debian Linux.

But I want to perform the debian install in such a way that I am completely 
independent of any other facilities. And also to be independent of any need for 
a network connection to be able to do a fresh installation of debian Linux.

So I need to have the debian Linux installation isos on portable physical media 
in a format that will boot into the installation process.




--


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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

See below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
  From: Lennart Sorensen 
  To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk 
  Cc: Giles Orr 
  Sent: Friday, March 02, 2018 11:24 AM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To 
Canadian Destination ??


  On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 10:25:16AM -0500, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
  > Many thanks to the many helpful responders !!
  > 
  > Too many for me to thank individually ...
  > 

  

  > 5. Thanks also for the cautionary advice re: dial-up modem on Linux. I did 
some research earlier, but of course the proof will be in the actual attempt to 
use the modem :) I do plan to upgrade to a faster (and dedicated) Internet link 
!! Just wanted to try first with the dial-up modem. Trying to simplify my life 
by postponing the networking upgrade. And also out of plain perverse curiosity, 
more than anything else.

  Nothing could simplify life more than avoiding dial-up.

  -- 
  Len Sorensen
Probably true that dial-up under Linux will be fiddly as heck ... But if I give 
up on dial-up under debian Linux without a fight, then I won't be the same 
rabidly independent Windows XP "orphan" outlier, migrating to Linux instead of 
Windows 10 ...
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Russell -- thanks for the tip about small footprint system rescue -- I'll try 
it.

Steve
  - Original Message - 
  From: Russell 
  To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk 
  Sent: Friday, March 02, 2018 11:01 AM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To 
Canadian Destination ??




  On March 2, 2018 10:25:16 AM EST, "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" 
<talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
  >Many thanks to the many helpful responders !!
  >
  >Too many for me to thank individually ...
  >
  >* * *
  >* * *
  >
  >Here is what I have digested and decided, based on GTALUG advivce
  >received:
  >
  >1. Thanks for the multiple offers to burn & ship DVDs and / or other
  >media.
  >
  >2. I'll accept the USB device advice, and use a USB device for the
  >installation media.
  >
  >3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking hard
  >disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the
  >debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
  >
  >4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet connection
  >so I'll see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto
  >that USB drive. We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that,
  >unfortunately. Then I'll try the Linux install from that USB drive.

  I know your final target is lxde but the System Rescue iso has a very small 
footprint and it is great for slow connections. I have done it for several 
people in the past and it contains number of very useful tools for disk 
manipulation. It uses Debian apt tools for repository management and is based 
on well documented Gentoo linux.

  http://www.system-rescue-cd.org

  >
  >5. Thanks also for the cautionary advice re: dial-up modem on Linux. I
  >did some research earlier, but of course the proof will be in the
  >actual attempt to use the modem :) I do plan to upgrade to a faster
  >(and dedicated) Internet link !! Just wanted to try first with the
  >dial-up modem. Trying to simplify my life by postponing the networking
  >upgrade. And also out of plain perverse curiosity, more than anything
  >else.
  >
  >* * *
  >* * *
  >
  >Thanks again to GTALUG members for all the advice. Makes this whole
  >shift from Windows XP to debian Linux s much more comfortable. No
  >doubt I'll be back in touch again at some point, during the build
  >adventure... :)

  I use system rescue to prepare dual boot systems and troubleshoot with it all 
the time. My copy is on a very old 1gig usb pen drive. I wouldn't start a fresh 
install without having a copy available.

  Good luck with the build.
  >
  >Best,
  >
  >Steve
  >
  >- Original Message - 
  >  From: Giles Orr 
  >  To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk 
  >  Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2018 2:24 PM
  >Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set -
  >Shipped To Canadian Destination ??
  >
  >
  >On 1 March 2018 at 09:28, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk
  ><talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
  >
  >Greetings To GTALUG,
  >
  >I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run
  >debian Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell
  >desktop PC with MS Windows XP.
  >
  >* * *
  >* * *
  >
  >I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE)
  >installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does
  >not yet support live install with UEFI).
  >
  >I need the installation DVDs because I use a very slow telephone-grade
  >dial-up line modem for my Internet connection, so a Linux installation
  >via network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up
  >line with the new debian Linux PC, at least for the first while. GTALUG
  >advice put me on to the idea of using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.)
  >
  >Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org but am concerned
  >about getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian
  >customs duties, that may be collected by courier delivering to the
  >Canadian address from U.S.A
  >
  >* * *
  >* * *
  >
  >Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux
  >(LXDE) DVD installation sets ??
  >
  >I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell
  >Fibe, and download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the
  >DVDs myself, but I prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes.
  >
  >Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially
  >messy detail of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install DVDs,
  >greatly appreciated !!
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >The last time I had to help someone with a modem on Linux 3-4 years
  >ag

Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Many thanks to the many helpful responders !!

Too many for me to thank individually ...

* * *
* * *

Here is what I have digested and decided, based on GTALUG advivce received:

1. Thanks for the multiple offers to burn & ship DVDs and / or other media.

2. I'll accept the USB device advice, and use a USB device for the installation 
media.

3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking hard disk 
backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the debian Linux 
(LXDE) installation device.

4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet connection so I'll 
see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto that USB drive. 
We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that, unfortunately. Then I'll try 
the Linux install from that USB drive.

5. Thanks also for the cautionary advice re: dial-up modem on Linux. I did some 
research earlier, but of course the proof will be in the actual attempt to use 
the modem :) I do plan to upgrade to a faster (and dedicated) Internet link !! 
Just wanted to try first with the dial-up modem. Trying to simplify my life by 
postponing the networking upgrade. And also out of plain perverse curiosity, 
more than anything else.

* * *
* * *

Thanks again to GTALUG members for all the advice. Makes this whole shift from 
Windows XP to debian Linux s much more comfortable. No doubt I'll be back 
in touch again at some point, during the build adventure... :)

Best,

Steve

- Original Message - 
  From: Giles Orr 
  To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk 
  Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2018 2:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To 
Canadian Destination ??


  On 1 March 2018 at 09:28, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk <talk@gtalug.org> 
wrote:

Greetings To GTALUG,

I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run 
debian Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell desktop PC 
with MS Windows XP.

* * *
* * *

I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) 
installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not yet 
support live install with UEFI).

I need the installation DVDs because I use a very slow telephone-grade 
dial-up line modem for my Internet connection, so a Linux installation via 
network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up line with the 
new debian Linux PC, at least for the first while. GTALUG advice put me on to 
the idea of using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.)

Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org but am concerned about 
getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian customs duties, 
that may be collected by courier delivering to the Canadian address from U.S.A

* * *
* * *

Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux (LXDE) 
DVD installation sets ??

I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell Fibe, 
and download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the DVDs myself, 
but I prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes.

Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially messy 
detail of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install DVDs, greatly 
appreciated !!




  The last time I had to help someone with a modem on Linux 3-4 years ago, it 
was kind of a nightmare.  Before you buy, make sure it has Linux support - and 
then spend some time researching what they mean by that, because one of the 
things I encountered was "has Linux support" meant "if you go pay someone else 
for a driver that only works with a specific kernel."  I don't consider that 
real Linux support, so do your homework.


  Keep in mind that every time a new kernel comes out (~once a month with 
Debian stable, ~every two weeks with testing??) you're in for an overnight (or 
at least multi-hour) download.  I'm afraid you're going to find yourself 
dreading the 'apt-get dist-upgrade' command, which you _should_ run often.


  I'd also add a vote for seeing if you can get USB media: it's a lot easier to 
deal with these days, and more common.  It could also allow you to skip putting 
an optical drive into your new machine if you don't otherwise need it.


  -- 

  Giles
  https://www.gilesorr.com/
  giles...@gmail.com---
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[GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Greetings To GTALUG,

I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run debian 
Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell desktop PC with MS 
Windows XP.

* * *
* * *

I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) 
installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not yet 
support live install with UEFI).

I need the installation DVDs because I use a very slow telephone-grade dial-up 
line modem for my Internet connection, so a Linux installation via network is 
not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up line with the new debian 
Linux PC, at least for the first while. GTALUG advice put me on to the idea of 
using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.)

Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org but am concerned about 
getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian customs duties, 
that may be collected by courier delivering to the Canadian address from U.S.A

* * *
* * *

Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux (LXDE) DVD 
installation sets ??

I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell Fibe, and 
download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the DVDs myself, but I 
prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes.

Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially messy detail 
of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install DVDs, greatly appreciated 
!!

Best Regards,

Steve
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[GTALUG] Fw: Meltdown and Spectre on HTTP workload

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Warm Greetings To GTALUG,

FYI.

Below is a forward of an email from one of the developers of the DragonFlyBSD 
(dfly) operating system. 

The PDF at the link target gives a nice one-page graph showing the performance 
hits due to fixes for Meltdown and Spectre.

Dfly is not LInux but a highly performant BSD flavour I have installed dfly for 
testing under a VPS. Thinking to use dfly, instead of Linux, for better HTTP 
server resource efficiency. But also always keeping the website operational 
under a debian Linux for development, reference, maintenance and emergency 
fallback.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: Sepherosa Ziehau 
To: us...@dragonflybsd.org 
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2018 8:44 AM
Subject: Meltdown and Spectre on HTTP workload


Enjoy:
https://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/~sephe/melt_spectre.pdf

Meltdown+spectre means that performance is dropped by 35%, and 99th
percentile of latency is increased by 55%!

Thanks,
sephe

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[GTALUG] Intel Meltdown Bug -- Conundrum For New Desktop PC Build Spec (to run debian Linux) -- Switch From Intel CPU To AMD CPU ??

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Warm Greetings To GTALUG Members,

Just as year 2018 arrived and I prepared to push the Order button, on the 
various parts for building a new desktop PC to run debian LInux, replacing an 
ancient Dell Windows XP PC, along comes revelation of the Intel Meltdown CPU 
bug, to muddy the picture.

My present new desktop PC build spec (much modified according to some excellent 
earlier advice from GTALUG members) has an Intel Z97 LGA 1150 Intel 4-Core 
i5-4460 3.2GHz Haswell Processor. (I know, I know, the Intel Haswell CPU series 
is obsolete, but let's just ignore this fact for the present discussion.)

I attach a copy of the present build spec:
  a.. ; 
  b.. ;
* * *
* * *

It seems to me that, with regard to the Intel Meltdown bug, I have two basic 
options:
  a.. 1. Just accept the Meltdown bug situation, proceed with the PC build 
using the Intel CPU, and live with the perforrmance hit that comes with the fix 
in the Linux kernel for the Meltdown bug.

  b.. 2. Invest a week or two to investigate AMD CPU options that will avoid 
altogether the Intel Meltdown bug. This strategy could lead to a lengthy 
necessary respecification of other components in the PC build spec, depending 
on how an AMD architecture fits with peripherals.
An ARM CPU is not an option, as one of the other operating system I plan to run 
on the new PC is DragonFlyBSD, which only runs on Intel and AMD processors (not 
ARM).

* * *
* * *

*** LATE BREAKING NEWS ***

Speaking of DragonFlyBSD, here is an interesting snippet just in from the dfly 
 email discussion forum:

Subject: Re: Meltdown and Spectre information update

Matthew Dillon wrote:
> (2) Intel is supplying a Microcode patch for newer CPUs, but it's hard
> to say how many BIOS makers will ever adopt it.

I wouldn't count on it very much, especially nowadays when hardware is
very usable far longer than vendors are even willing to support it.

But that's the reason why Linux kernel provides a way to update a
microcode early during boot or even in runtime. Maybe it's a good idea
to implement it for DragonFly as well.

https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/Documentation/x86/microcode.txt

Could be a promising fix for Meltdown, using the Linux microcode update 
facility to install the Intel microcode patch for the Meltdown bug. I may need 
to switch to a newer Intel CPU (than Haswell), if no Meltdown microcode fix is 
forthcoming from Intel for Haswell.

* * *
* * *

Do GTALUG members have any opinions on the relative merits of the strategies I 
suggest above ??

Any comments / advice from GTALUG members, regarding the above strategies (or 
any other strategy that comes to mind) would be gratefully received.

And then there is the Spectre bug also lurking ...

Thanks in advance,

Steve

apet...@aspetrie.net

ca.pcpartpicker.com -- deb8_PC_business_24_7_duty_bare_v1 - accessories - Steve_Petrie - 20170722.odt.pdf
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ca.pcpartpicker.com -- deb8_PC_business_24_7_duty_bare_v1 - summary - Steve_Petrie - 20170722.odt.pdf
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[GTALUG] pnc empower browser;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Brief comments below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: Myles Braithwaite  via talk

To: GTALUG Talk
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2017 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] [browser bitching] Re: Programming languages (in 
comparison?) - -was Learn Swift for Apple/iOS. Learn ??? for 
Google/Android.


Jamon Camisso via talk wrote:

I haven't read the article yet, but I always see people resorting to
selenium, when other tools seem like they might have less overhead. 
Is

there any mention of phantomjs? http://phantomjs.org/


I've used it a couple of times, generating PDFs from a web page in PHP
and using it like I would Selenium in Node. I've never really thought 
of

using it with Python but I just found this SO answer that says you can
use it as a WebDriver in Selenium:
.
So I'm definitely going to start using it.

Thanks for helping me see stuff from a different angle.


PhantomJS looks quite potent.

Seems a little ironic, that the predecessor discussion thread was 
badmouthing javascript, when it turns out that JS seems to offer 
(unsurprisingly, I guess) lots of rich functionality of potential use in 
a pnc empower browser.


I expect that a production version of a pnc browser would be delivered 
as an installable binary (not as e.g. python source code). So long as 
all the JS programming used is built in to the pnc browser's binary 
installation package, this would e,iminate the foolishmess of repeatedly 
fetching the JS (used directly by pnc) dynamically via the Internet.



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[GTALUG] pnc empower browser;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Proposed New Subject Line For This Topic:

pnc empower browser;

pnc == pick-and-choose;
empower == empower the user to control what part(s) of the web page will 
be rendered / actioned;


* * *

Please see my comments below on Myles's python prototype.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: Myles Braithwaite 

To: GTALUG Talk
Cc: Steve Petrie, P.Eng.
Sent: Friday, December 15, 2017 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] [browser bitching] Re: Programming languages (in 
comparison?) - -was Learn Swift for Apple/iOS. Learn ??? for 
Google/Android.



Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
Headless Chrome and the Puppeteer Library for Scraping and Testing 
the

Web   Wednesday 29 November
http://www.i-programmer.info/news/87/11344.html

With the advent of Single Page Applications, scraping pages for
information as well as running automated user interaction tests has
become much harder due to its highly dynamic nature. The solution?
Headless Chrome and the Puppeteer library.
...
There's just one caveat. Since CDP only works with Chromium, Chrome 
and
other Blink-based browsers, so does Puppeteer. If you require more 
than
that, then sticking to Selenium and its WebDriver API still remains 
the

best option..
===

The Selenium WebDriver API might be a useful code base to be 
considered,

in the design of the p'n'c "subversive incremental load" browser ...

My 2 cents worth.


Thought this was a interesting idea so I prototyped it in Jupyter:

<https://github.com/myles/notebooks/blob/master/Random/2017-12-15-better-web-browser/notebook.ipynb>

My 2 cents worth of programming :-).


Nice work !! I've never had to try to read python code before. Looks 
quite intuitive.


Myles's prototype demonstraes how simple it is to programmatically do in 
python, what a web browser does.


Next step would be for the python app to present the web page to the 
user as a navigable pick-and-choose tree for selective rendering of HTML 
"things".


I don't have a current python installed, and I have vowed to postpone 
all future software dev work until I get moved to debian Linux from Win 
XP. But once there, might be interesting to pursue the pnc empower 
browser idea.


Not sure if python would be the best platform for a serious pnc browser, 
but certainly good for trying out various ideas and libraries. Need some 
GUI power for sure.



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[GTALUG] [browser bitching] Re: Programming languages (in comparison?) - -was Learn Swift for Apple/iOS. Learn ??? for Google/Android.

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Please see my comments below.

With apologies for wordiness ...

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: o1bigtenor via talk

To: Alvin Starr ; GTALUG Talk
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Programming languages (in comparison?) - -was 
Learn Swift for Apple/iOS. Learn ??? for Google/Android.


On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 7:32 AM, Alvin Starr via talk 
 wrote:


On 12/11/2017 12:29 AM, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:

On 2017-12-10 09:50 PM, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:



FF57 is much cleaner than before, and is at least as fast as Chrome. 
You
can quit FF, then have it restart with all your windows and tabs 
open.
The clever part is, it'll only render that tab when it gets focus, 
so
you could have hundreds of tabs open yet only a few loaded. So while 
I'm
pretty sure it won't fit your needs of an entire Starbucks-load of 
pages

in the one browser, it might get a little closer than FF <57.

The trouble is that more and more services, systems and applications 
are using HTML as the interface.
So you will find yourself with pages(tabs) open in your browser 
instead of applications open on your desktop.




It sounds like I'm not the only one who has issues with 
browsers - - - thank you!


Perhaps it is time that browsers were split into parts that do 
separate things,
and things that could be managed by the USERS of those browsers 
rather
than by the advertising  (I'll use the word people although I would 
much rather

not include them as such) people that think they do own my desktop.

If the browser coders were actually listening to their users this 
would have

already been happening!




It seems to me that there's a clue in the above proposal by Dee, quoted 
here:: "Perhaps it is time that browsers were split into parts that do 
separate things, and things that could be managed by the USERS of those 
browsers rather than by the advertising".


Dee complains when current browser technology is unable to cope 
gracefully with his huge web page workload.


I also suffer a browser resource contraint problem, but mine is due to 
my outdated PC and Internet hookup. 1. use an extremely amcient 
operating system (Win XP SP3 until I get moved to a new PC with debian 
Linux.), and 2. the low bandwidth of my current Internet connection 
(approx. 46 Kbps over landline telephone dial-up modem).


My survivalist approach to using current browsers (FF and Comodo Dragon) 
is to start the desired page (or maybe two or three pages, max.) 
loading, and then I turn my attention to some other task, checking 
occasionally to see if the page(s) has(ve) finished loading the vast 
quantities of: useless eye-candy "rich" content, unwanted adware, great 
gobs of JavaScript crud, a zillion videos I don't care to see, etc., 
etc.


* * *
* * *

It seems to me that the clue in Dee's pronouncement that I quoted, is to 
take back control of the page load / display experience from the 
PROVIDER of the page (often an arrogant rich titanic-scale oligarchic 
zillionaire e.g amazon, google) , and give that control back to the 
CONSUMER of the page.


To my way of thinking, regaining browsing control and freedom, begins 
with getting rid of the idea that the web browser is a monolithic opaque 
black box that LOADS AND RENDERS A COMPLETE WEB PAGE AT A TIME. 
Currently, the browser user is faced with an all-or-nothing choice. 
Either start a page loading and wait until the browser has finished 
loading the entire page, or don't try to view that page at all.


I know that browsers do begin to render and display a page in parts, 
before it has all been loaded and rendered internally by the browser. 
But the designer of the browser controls the order of this progressive 
rendering. And the order doesn't usually seem very helpful to me.


* * *
* * *

If we take Dee's idea: "it is time that browsers were split into parts 
that do separate things, and things that could be managed by the USERS" 
as a guiding principle, what can a browser developer do, to give more 
control and power back to the user of the browser, and prevent the 
provider of th page from dominating the page view esperience ??


WHAT I WOULD LIKE, IS TO BE ABLE TO CONTROL THE WEB BROWSER AT THE LEVEL 
OF INDIVIDUAL ELEMENTS OF HTML ITSELF. I WOULD LIKE THE BROWSER START A 
PAGE LOAD, BY PRESENTING TO ME, A COMPACT AND EASILY-NAVIGABLE 
TREE-STRUCTURED LARGELY TEXTUAL REPRESENTATION OF THE WEB PAGE'S HTML 
STRUCTURE.


Then, I can scroll around to inspect all that nicely formatted and 
coloured HTML textual rep, pick the parts of the page that I think would 
be worthwhile actually loading and rendering, and set the browser 
loading only my chosen few page parts. And I can ask for thumbprints of 
graphic elemesnts that might seem interesting to me, And I can see still 
shots from a huge video / movie, without loading/ playing the whole 
thing. And I can hear sample audio clips.


An even more advanced p'n'c browser, could synthesize 

Re: [GTALUG] Programming languages (in comparison?) - -was Learn Swift for Apple/iOS. Learn ??? for Google/Android.

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Pls. see comments below.
  - Original Message - 
  From: o1bigtenor via talk 
  To: D. Hugh Redelmeier ; GTALUG Talk 
  Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2017 6:27 PM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Programming languages (in comparison?) - -was Learn 
Swift for Apple/iOS. Learn ??? for Google/Android.



  On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 11:27 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk 
 wrote:

| From: o1bigtenor via talk 

| On Sun, Dec 10, 2017 at 12:06 AM, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <
| talk@gtalug.org> wrote:




  I have a contact [contract?] that doesn't allow any javascript - - - I'm 
starting to 

  wonder if that might be quite preferable to the bs that the web is becoming. 

  +1 !!!

  A couple of years ago, I developed a simple PHP web app that registers 
members of a club in an SQL database (first using MySQL, then switched to 
PosgreSQL but now planning to switch to BerkeleyDB for "zero admin" 
simplicity.), 

  This simple PHP web app enables visitors to join the club, manage their club 
subscription and also serves club members premiunm content. (The PHP app is 
fully tested but not yet online.) 

  here are a few static pages for the same website already demoed online at 
http://aspetrie.net/ But the PHP app is not online yet.And the website is not 
yet operating under its eventual domain name. And be advised that there has 
been no tuning done at all for the web page demo site.

  * * *
  * * *

  I've always been an engineer with a ferocious focus on resource efficiency. 
Being a frugal SOB, retired and with few time pressures, I still use a plain 
old twisted-copper-pair landline telephone dialup modem connection for my 
Internet access (usually connnects at around 46 Kbps (that's K bits per 
second). There's always something else useful I can do, while waiting for 
bloated web pages that take a long time to load.

  When I designed the website and PHP app, I set a 10-second maximum page load 
time target for users on slow landline dialup connections. Same deal for static 
pages as for dynamic pages served by the PHP app.

  The technology that this website promotes is a highly democratic solution to 
expressway traffic congestion, a solution that treats all drivers, rich and 
poor, with exactly the same priority and respect.

  So the website also has to convey the same overriding ethic -- all visitors 
are welcome, and their time is equally valuable, so even the Internet user who 
can barely afford any Internet connection at all, should get pages displayed 
with maximum 10-second response time.

  * * *
  * * *

  No way was I ever going to buy in to all that Javascript BS.

  It makes absoutely no sense to me that a web app would presumptuously load 
the same Javascript crud again and again, into every single instance of web 
browser visitng my website. Wasting bandwidth. Wasting time.

  So, I decided that the web browser using my website and PHP app, is just 
going to be a plain HTML2 "dumb terminal". The webaite and PHP app should work 
with the lowest common denominator among web browsers.

  Simplicity rocks !!

  Steve



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Re: [GTALUG] Linux Journal, RIP

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Try LinuxQuestions.org ??

I'm not yet actively using this LQ resource (it's not a journal), but I do plan 
to use it (in addition to consulting the  GTALUG forum :), once I get to 
installing debian Linux on my build-it-myself PC.

The occasional emailed LQ e-newsletter I receive, does seem a bit moribund. 
Needs editorial refreshing. But the discussion forums online might be useful.

Steve

- Original Message - 
  From: o1bigtenor via talk 
  To: James Knott ; GTALUG Talk 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:50 AM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Linux Journal, RIP






  On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 8:27 PM, James Knott via talk  wrote:

On 12/05/2017 07:59 PM, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:
> Looks like last month was their last month of even digital publication:

I used to subscribe to it, but when Shawn Powers took over as editor,
the content really suffered.  As a result, I stopped subscribing some
time after they dropped the print version.


  Greetings


  Any ideas as to where to collect information similar to that provided by the 

  magazine?

  (project ideas with examples, news, tips, etc)


  I've looked and there doesn't really seem to be a live magazine focused on 

  LInux anymore - - - they're all doa. Maybe someone out there has some ideas.


  TIA


  Dee 



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Re: [GTALUG] IBM Mainframe and z/OS

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Greetings To R360,

>From someone who worked as independent contract software engineer for 30 
>years, retiring early in the year 2002.

At that time major financial companies used large IBM mainframes extensively. 
They simply wouldn't trust anything else.

The COBOL language often so disparaged by folks coming ftom the *nix world, was 
the robust application language backbone of much custom app code on IBM big 
iron.

The IBM mainframes I worked in COBOL on had their own IBM proprietary operating 
systerms (e.g. MVS - multiple virtual systems). All was rock solid and 
performant. I did work for two large insurance companies. At one, the language 
was COBOL running on IBM's AIX *nix flavour on an IBM (RS-6000?)  But as I 
understand, this COBOL application I worked on was was later migrated intact to 
an IBM mainframe running IBM's proprietary MVS OS

The COBOL language has features making it a robust tool in the hands of 
"bricklayers" (programmers of varied skill and enthusiasm). The female U.S. 
Navy officer who invented COBOL knew what she was doing.

I expect that there is still a large COBOL application code base (representing 
a large $ investment) in operation at these big companies. COBOL is a possible 
career path for someone young but who is also unafraid of jeers frm ignorant 
programmers from the net / *nix world.

The old guard like me are all retired / ing in droves, and not enough new COBOL 
progammers are being produced by colleges and universities. There were (are?) 
some really great COBOL implementations out there. The name Micro Focus comes 
to mind. The MF COBOL on my Win XP PC proved to be rock solid and incredibly 
fast with a great debugger.

* * *
* * *

You should research all this before making any commitment to a particular OS or 
application language.

The advantage of starting your career with a big company (e.g. bank, insurance) 
is that they can manage their staff with a long-term view. They will invest in 
training you, and they provide a populaiton of competent staff to mentor you. I 
worked with many different programming languages over the years, and likely you 
will also. They are all just tools.

Maybe that proprietary IBM OS layer I worked with has now all disappeared. But 
it would surprise mte to learn that our big banks are running their "inner 
jewels" type IT operations on open source LInux ...

Regards,,

Steve

* * *

Steve Petrie, P.Eng.

Oakville, Ontario, Canada
(905) 847-3253
apet...@aspetrie.net

- Original Message - 
  From: R360 Design INC via talk 
  To: talk@gtalug.org 
  Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2017 10:33 PM
  Subject: [GTALUG] IBM Mainframe and z/OS


  Hello everyone,


  Does anyone know how I could gain hands-on experience on an IBM mainframe? 
This is a career path Id like to pursue - i.e. Websphere zOS consultant or 
CICS. I am currently a UoT student and was wondering how people  gain experience




  -- 
  r360design.ca



  -- 
  r360design.ca



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Re: [GTALUG] Web hosting questions

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Many awesome tips posted to this thread !!

The one about the two-phase TTL change (not included in this reply) has been 
added to my DNS bag of tricks.

* * *
* * *

My personal experience -- you can go through a lot of pain and anguish on the 
way to finding good Internet hosting service providers. I used to say the 
Internet is a jungle, but really, it's more like a sewer.

One observation: web hosting services can very significantly in the market they 
are addressing. For example, I currently maintain accounts with two (2) hosting 
providers:

www.siteground.com (SG) -- For general email and website hosting and website 
building tools (I'm NOT a power website builder), I use SG for hosting: 1. my 
email (POP3 inbox, and SMTP), 2. a few (home brewed) web pages, and 3. a few 
FTP accounts for exchanging files. I pay SG annually US $323.40 (no tax 
collected). May strike some people as expensive, but for me, rock-solid 
reliability (especially for email hosting !!) and excellent technical support 
are prime. SG does have less expensive plans. Any hosting service can have an 
outage, but so far SG has been great for reliability. Also I love cPanel for 
admin work.

www.elastichosts.com (EH) -- For working more closely to the "metal" of hosting 
service hardware, I use EH QEMU / KVM virtual machines. I can run more VMs, but 
presently I have two (2) VMs: 1. stock debian Linux for hosting a home brew 
website with transactions and a database, currently under development (not yet 
online), 2. cool DragonFlyBSD (dfly) flavour of Unix, with its native HAMMER1 
(soon to go to HAMMER2) filesystem. The idea is to eventually migrate the 
website (not yet online) from the Linux VM to the more performant (in theory:) 
dfly VM, to squeeze more value from hosting fees. I pay EH annually US $541.60 
(plus 13% tax collected) (discounted @ 12 months hosting for the price of 10). 
Again, may strike some people as expensive, but for me, rock-solid reliability 
and excellent technical support are prime. Haven't done much work with the EH 
VMs lately, but every time I check in, they just start and run. EH has many 
server sites, my stuff runs on EH servers in Toronto.

Steve 

- Original Message - 
  From: Don Tai via talk 
  To: o1bigtenor 
  Cc: GTALUG Talk 
  Sent: Monday, October 30, 2017 8:18 AM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Web hosting questions


  I would also council to separate your domains from your hosting provider. If 
you have a dispute with your hosting provider you should be able to easily 
switch hosts. You cannot do this if your domains and hosting are from the same 
source. It is like separating your email address from your internet provider. 
Maybe you are lucky and the host provider has farmed this out to a domain names 
company? Of provided a domain name for free (transfer after one year)?


  Bots will try to hack into your web site, and if you have business stuff 
there that is a bonus for them. A clear separation between the internet and 
your internal network is always a good idea.


  Whatever you can do at home you should be able to set up on your host 
provider in a test environment. The host should be able to provide a linux 
session, just like at home.


  Take nothing for granted when looking for a host provider. If it does not say 
backups and restores are available and free, then it is not provided. If not 
sure, then ask.


  Web sites are very easy to put up and maintain, depending on the package you 
wish to use. Of course having less money means having to learn more.


  Don


  On 30 October 2017 at 07:39, o1bigtenor  wrote:

Greetings



On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Don Tai  wrote:

  Web hosting can be purchased on the occasional sale, such as Black 
Friday, so renewal costs can be much higher. I always compare renewal costs and 
not the initial loss leader signup cost. The 2.7 times higher hosting costs may 
be valid, depending on the hosting services provided. Moe importantly, what did 
you buy? Some hosts don't even provide on demand backup, and some hosts will 
charge you for a restore. Some hosts don't provide SSH. Shared services or a 
dedicated IP? Reputation, which is very important?


I am getting an education out of this for sure.

What was purchased was 2 domains and a 3 year small business hosting 
package at hostpapa.

I has become quite clear that what I got was something like buying a car. 

Didn't specify that I wanted a steering wheel - - - so I need to add this.

The website builder program - - I didn't use it in the first year - - - its 
now an extra fee.

Sorry - - - in setting up a complicated small business there are a mountain 
of things to be done and the website was/is on the list, its just that money is 
quite short and time keeps disappearing and so things get done when they do.

Its also frustrating when you sign up for x and the renewal is quite a 
large increase. 

Re: [GTALUG] From BTRFS to what?

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Greetings To GTALUG,

- Original Message - 
From: "Anthony de Boer via talk" 

To: "Alvin Starr via talk" 
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2017 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] From BTRFS to what?



Alvin Starr via talk wrote:

On 09/05/2017 09:42 AM, Christopher Browne via talk wrote:
>  ...





Debian and Ubuntu don't seem to have the same support offerings but I
could be wrong on that point.


Debian at least is a volunteer organization and you can't wave the
corporate Amex at them.  They're generally quite reasonable at issuing
fixes to CVE issues and their stuff Just Works but if you want to be
spoon-fed you have to pick up the spoon in your own hand, as it were.



As a Windows XP "orphan" on an ancient Dell desktop, who is now escaping 
from the Microsoft Boa Constrictor, by switching to debian Linux on a 
new custom-built PC (parts specified but not yet built), So it's good to 
have my choice of debian confirmed as a good one.






I hope nobody is looking at redoing their root filesystems in any sort 
of

stampede to a different filesystem.  The choice of filesystem usually
runs for the lifetime of an install, and when Btrfs became ready for
prime-time I used it in a few non-core systems I was setting up, and 
it's

been happily working.  Certainly I'd not now try to swim upstream by
using it on an RH/CentOS installation, but Debian and Gentoo are still
happy with it.  But the vast majority of Linux systems I've built have
had ext2/3/4.



Rignt on about ext2/3/4. After much research, my design for the linux 
disk drive partitioning for the desktop PC uses a blend of all three: 
ext2, ext3, ext4.




* * *
* * *

Regarding more esoteric filesystems along hte lines of: btrfs and zfs.

In another project -- a website -- I plan to start up the website using 
debian Linus ext4 under a cloud-hosted QEMU / KVM vistual server.


But I also have experimented with a very interesting BSD-flavoured *nix 
called DragonFlyBSD (DFLY), again running on a cloud-hosted QEMU / KVM 
vistual server.


My research indicates that DFLY has two major attractions:

1. DFLY seems to be a very high-performance os (particularly its network 
stack). But this is based on comments by other DFLY users, not on my 
personal experience.


2. DFLY offers its own advanced filesystem HAMMER1 (to distinguish the 
current production-ready HAMMER from the new HAMMER2 currently under 
development). HAMMER1 offers may features of advanced file systems (e.g. 
snapshot).


DFLY (and HAMMER!) seems to have an enthusiastic (but very small) user 
base.


One interesting quirk about DFLY: Although DFLY is primarily aimed at 
the physical server hardware market, there are sometimes calls for help 
on the email discussion forum, from courageous DFLY tire-kickers who are 
installing DFLY on personal computers / workstations (especially laptop 
/ notebook computerrs). Seemingly becaue DFLY is so very resource 
efficient it can use otherwise obsolete underpowered hardware. The big 
struggles these DFLY notebook users have, seem to be with getting video 
and other peripherals working.


* * *
* * *

In reference to advanced filesystems, I am wondering about HAMMER1 in 
the context of Linux:


1. Occasionally, there is mention on the DFLY email forum, of the idea 
of porting HAMMER to Linux, but but obviously this would be a huge 
undertaking and not necessarily one with a happy ending.


2. Would there be some way to use a (dedicated server / virtual server) 
DFLY + HAMMER1 setup as a network-addressable filesystem for Linux? Get 
the operational and reliability benefits of DFLY+HAMMER but run them in 
their purely native mode.


Steve



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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry PI wifi problem

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Warm greetings to GTALUG,

Comments below.

(apologies for the messy format -- due to ancient Microsoft Outlook 
Express...)


Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "CLIFFORD ILKAY via talk" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2017 7:04 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry PI wifi problem



On 2017-08-23 06:11 PM, Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote:

Hi all.

Making networking run on Linux desktops has always been IMO one of
the
reasons why it's not caught on. Stuff just shouldn't be this hard.


This is a red herring. The reason why Linux desktops have not caught
on
has nothing to do with the technical merits, or lack thereof. It's
entirely a business decision. Microsoft and various hardware
manufacturers, like Dell, have developed a vast ecosystem of VARs and
other support resources. There are great financial incentives for I.T.
support firms to promote the Windows ecosystem. There is no
counterpart
to Microsoft in the Linux world so there are no financial incentives
for
anyone to push Linux on the desktop. Microsoft and Dell cultivate
relationships with VARs and funnel business their way. Who does that
in
the Linux world? No one. Which large and influential organization
promotes Linux on desktops? No one.

If ease of installation has something to do with desktop adoption,
Windows would have been displaced long ago. Microsoft has a tremendous
advantage in the market because of the OEM relationships it has with
hardware vendors. Most people have no idea how difficult or easy
Windows
is to install because they never have to do it. It comes pre-loaded on
their computer. In corporate environments, there are many tools
designed
to make the mass deployment and management of Windows desktops
relatively pain-free so the complexity of Windows installation and
configuration is, again, hidden from people.



+1.

I am a Windows XP "orphan" on a Dell 3000 PC bought in 2004. Working
(slowly) to move to a new desktop PC running debian Linux as primary OS
with Windows 7 (likely under QEMU) if needed for a Windows-specific app.

My motivation in declining to take the easy route (moving to MS
Windows 7 / 10) is a combination of bloody-mindedness and love of all 
things

open source.

In addition to the powerful arguments provided by Clifford I., 
explaining Microsoft dominaiton, here are

three:

1. Another "iron grip" enjoyed by Microsoft is the MS Office product
suite (and related web-centric stuff) that keeps much of the world
shackled to the MS monolith. There really ISN'T any way to obtain MS
Office functionality elsewere. For a business that does business with
other businesses, lack of MS Office compatibility can be a big problem.
I have had to ask more than one sender to provide a PDF, after they had
blithely sent some MS-Office attachment or other to me. Scheduling
meetings with other organizations that use MS Outlook, can be another
pain for the Outlook-deprived  Thank goodness for the PDF standard !! My
plan in moving to debian Linux is to look for a good document editor
that uses the PDF format as its native representation. And of course
there is Open Office that (on Win XP at least) is ok, but hardly as
slick as equivalent MS product.

2. Another stumbling block for a Windows user looking to "divorce" MS,
is the need to choose a desktop GUI. Way too much ink has been spilt and
far too many pixels lit, in unproductive linux desktop flame wars.
Windows does away with all this productivity-killing confusion over
choice of desktop. Here, in helping me clarify my choice of desktop
software, is where GTALUG (again) provided enormous value. Some recent
discussion around desktops "Re: [GTALUG] Desktop swap" has led me to add
Fvwm (that uses X) as a first trial "minimalist" desktop, but still to
order the debian Linux DVDs with LXDE.

3. If someone isn't using a cloud-based email IMAP hosting service, but
instead using a POP3 / SMTP hosting service and keeping emails on local
disk (as I am), dropping Microsoft Windows means converting the local
MS-based email database to a new email client. Yes, Mozilla Thunderbird
can import emails from MS Outlook and MS Outlook Express (but only when
Thunderbird runs under Windows). But frankly, I have too much invested
in my precious 1.5 GB of email history to trust the standard Thunderbird
import function. So I have written my own C++ program to generate solid
conversion integrity checking for the email database conversion. Call me
paranoid. And this C++ program isn;t fiished yet.

* * *
* * *

The existence of the GTALUG has become a great comfort to me, on this
long road from Win XP to debian Linux. For example, because of GTALUG
advice, I'm going to use bash instead of MKSH, I doubled the RAM on the
new PC, and made other tweaks to the HW configuration, based on advice
from GTALUG members.

Presently I'm working with a distributor to get a quote on the parts for
a do-it-your-self ATX mid-tower build. I hope to be soon booting up
debian Linux 

Re: [GTALUG] Tutorials on Linux command-line -- any interest?

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hugh,

Many thanks for your thoughtful reply.

My remarks are below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk" <talk@gtalug.org>

To: "GTALUG Talk" <talk@gtalug.org>
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Tutorials on Linux command-line -- any interest?



| From: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" <talk@gtalug.org>





vi skills are pretty basic to using Linux.  But I don't have them and
I've survived.  I've used UNIX and then Linux as my primary OS since
before vi existed.  Still, I recommend learning vi if you can stand
it.

For new users there are a lot of reasonable choices: gedit and
nano/pico, for example.

I happily use an emacs-subset "jove" as my editor.  emacs' keystrokes
are known to nano/pico, alpine (Mail User Agent), and to bash so I'm
mostly OK without vi skills.

(vi grew out of UNIX ed, a "line editor".  The concept of modes is in
its DNA.  Modes are a Bad Thing.  "don't mode me in" is a rallying cry
found on Larry Tesler's t-shirt.)

For decades, emacs was much more powerful than vi and some of that
power is quite useful (eg. multiple buffers and multiple panes).  vim
has probably caught up.



Many helpful tips about line editors under linux, much appreciated.

What primarily conditions my choices of various tools (and pretty well
all else) in the transition from Win XP to debian Linux, is an
overriding need for maximum simplicity of working environment. I need to
be able to switch quickly from one of my projects to another, sometimes
not touching a project for many months. Everything I work on better be
plain dead dumb simple to understand and use, because I'm never ever
going to be other than barely scratching the surface of what Linux can
do for me.

This need for simplicity and personal time economy, even conditions the
time I will take to choose tools for my Linux personal toolbox.

It''s a paradox. Computers and the Internet are so vitally importent to
the projects I work on that I am investing a lot of time fine-tuniing
the Windows => Linux move (both hw and sw). At the same time, I have too
many projects on the go, and too little time left in this world in which
to complete them. But I so love working at computers and programming
that only sternest self-denial keeps me from entanglement in the
pleasures of Linux hair-splitting. The last thing I need is to spend too
much time learning neat new stuff about Linux if this takes me away from
pushing around the other chequers on my chequerboard of life ...



I'm not sure why one would pick mksh ("MirBSD Korn Shell") over bash.
Could you explain?



 Lin transition, I am
open to having my mind changed by advice from GTALUG members, Based on
your advice, I'll very likely step up to bash and forget about mksh. I
did take a serious look at Fish Shell. But in the end that team's almost
joyful ease with breaking backward compatibility, aroused my terror of
all things bleeding edge, to rule out Fish shell.

Your point about bash being everywhere rang a loud bell for me. Quite
likely bash is going to rear its friendly head anyway, during my life
with Linux, in the form of tool-specific bash scripting included with
some tool I choose to use.



Pick your fights.  Here are some I've picked:

- I use Linux, not Windows

+1 (soon).


- I use Jove (emacs subset), not vi, not emacs

noted.


use C, not C++

I use C++ mostly like C but with some simple objects and exceptions.



- (lost long ago) Atari ST, not IBM PC


Lost long ago Imsai 8080 (kit) & Commodore 64.


And some I have not fought:

- I use whatever desktop my distro provides


I plan to use LXDE (Win-like & low resource utilization).




| I may install Windows (7 / 10) in case of a dire need for some
Windows
| functionality. E.g. flashing the ASROCK mainboard bios. But just
today
| (24 July 2017), I learned from D. Hugh Redelmeier's posting, about
the
| FreeDOS alternative for flashing firmware, so I've tucked that idea
away
| in a notes file for future reference -- Thanks Hugh !!

I'm glad you found that useful.  I just assumed (with no basis!) that
everyone knew about FreeDOS.


I did know about (the liklihood of things like) FreeDOS.

What I didn't know is that it seems that bios firmware patches must come
in some kind of community-standard representation that frees motherboard
users from being stuck with using the mb-maker's fw update tool.


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Re: [GTALUG] Tutorials on Linux command-line -- any interest?

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Warm Greetings To GTALUG,

>From a Windows XP "orphan" and Linux newbie :)

Lately I haven't had much to say on this GTALUG email forum. No pressing issues 
needing help right now. Not pushy enough to waste GTALUG bandwidth with general 
musings.

However, in response to William Park's observations about the status of GTALUG, 
may say that I find good value in simply "lurking"? Often I am saving a snippet 
of wisdom copied from a GTALUG email, into one of the plain-text notes files I 
keep on various projects.

Actually William, your offer of a Linux command line tutorial caught my 
interest. If only I lived closer to the meeting venue ... 

Except that I'm probably going to be using mksh rather than bash. But having 
some basic vi(m) skills could come in handy. Every time I've had to use vi, 
it's been the most frustrating hair-pulling nightmare just trying to get that 
stupid arcanely-user-interfaced program to do the simplest darn thing ...

* * *
* * *

Earlier, I received a some hugely helpful advice from GTALUG members, regarding 
my list of proposed components for a new desktop PC build. I revised the recipe 
accordingly. Got delayed with the PC build project, but am now back working on 
it. Made more revisions to the parts list, which is "almost" finalized now.

My beautiful new heavy-duty 24/7 desktop PC is replacing a very old Dell 
Windows XP PC. Bye bye Microsoft. Hello Linux. And I'm  counting on GTALUG as 
my go-to source of advice.

* * *
* * *

This new desktop PC will be running debian Linux (+ LXDE) as its primary OS.

I may install Windows (7 / 10) in case of a dire need for some Windows 
functionality. E.g. flashing the ASROCK mainboard bios. But just today (24 July 
2017), I learned from D. Hugh Redelmeier's posting, about the FreeDOS 
alternative for flashing firmware, so I've tucked that idea away in a notes 
file for future reference -- Thanks Hugh !! 

I hope to be building the new PC iwithin the next month. Real sson now.

No doubt, as I work to install debian Linux, and configure the disk drive, etc. 
I will be coming to GTALUG for advice.

* * *
* * *

So, my feedback to GTALUG is that the e-forum aspect of GTALUG is a very 
important resource for me (and I expect for a number of other "lurkers").

In addition, I find GTALUG email forum  to being a source of some very 
interesting wider tech-ralated musings, by knowledgeable members. I've even 
passed some interesting bits (e.g. apps detecting surveillance of cell phone 
traffic) on to the OpenMedia openmedia.org folks (re: concerns about muncipal 
police forces misusing RCMP-provided Sidewinder traffic sniffing).

I do regret that I live so far away from the Yonge St. + Dundas St. area, 
otherwise I would be attending GTALUG meetings.

Thanks to GTALUG for being there / here ...

Steve

* * *

P.S. I have an idea, for something GTALUG could consider doing, to re-energise, 
raise GTALUG visibility (and maybe raise a few dollars for GTALUG initiatives). 
An idea related to my new PC build. Once my build is done, I will raise this 
idea.

Steve Petrie, P.Eng.

Oakville, Ontario, Canada
(905) 847-3253
apet...@aspetrie.net

- Original Message - 
  From: William Park via talk 
  To: talk@gtalug.org 
  Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2017 9:21 PM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Tutorials on Linux command-line -- any interest?


  There was no formal discussion with the GTALUG board.  I just got tired
  of talking about it and decided to show initiative. :-)

  GTALUG has long ceased to be "users group" and has degenerated to social
  get-together.  Symptoms are
  - It has stopped growing.
  - No new idea or people are coming in.
  - It's not doing anything, because the current people are already
expert in what they are doing, so no need to do anything.
  - It's falling behind the time.  There are people who knows Linux
and never heard about GTALUG.  (I see this at work)

  So, what's the cure?  I think that structured tutorials is the best way
  to hold on to people.  "Linux Command-Line" is not the only topics.
  There are many others, even from this mailing list alone.
  -- 
  William

  On Sun, Jul 23, 2017 at 06:40:47PM -0400, Gary via talk wrote:
  > I will attend but I think it would be great if gtalug could get some
  > visibility on this for the public at large. How might this be done.
  > /gary
  > 
  > On 17-07-22 11:17 PM, William Park via talk wrote:
  > > Subject of "tutorial" comes up every year at Linux BBQ.  This year, at
  > > Hacklab, was no different.  OK, I'll bite first.
  > > 
  > > I will give a series of tutorials on "Linux Command-Line", starting with
  > >  - Shell (bash)
  > >  - Vi editor (vim)
  > > It will be workshop style.  So, you can bring laptop (Windows and
  > > Chromebook), try out examples, and ask questions.
  > > 
  > > How many are interested?
  > > We'll work out the logistics later.
  > 
  > ---
  > Talk Mailing List
  > talk@gtalug.org
  > 

Re: [GTALUG] computer to a good home.

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Warm Greetings To GTALUG,

There is a Toronto-based non-profit ISP -- Toronto Free-Net 
http://www.torfree.net/ that provides a free limited dial-up ISP service, and 
inexpensive dial-up and faster services.

I use torfree as my backup dial-up ISP, in case my paid dial-up ISP has a 
service interruption.

Toronto Free-Net welcomes donations of many kinds of computer and 
communications (and other) equipment:

http://www.torfree.net/pitch/contribute-equipment.html

Steve

* * *

Steve Petrie, P.Eng.

http://aspetrie.net/
Oakville, Ontario, Canada
(905) 847-3253
apet...@aspetrie.net

- Original Message - 
  From: Ansar Mohammed via talk 
  To: Alvin Starr ; GTALUG Talk 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2017 8:32 PM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] computer to a good home.


  I also have a DELL 2950 with 500GB of SCSI disks and dual gigE. It can't run 
either VMWare or Hyper-V, but its great for disk IO.




  On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Alvin Starr via talk  wrote:

I was using this system as a file server for a number of years.

The motherboard is a Asus SLI/KFN5-D with 2 AMD quad core Optron CPU's with 
something like 12G of ram.

It also has a 3wear 8port raid controller with 8 SATA cables.

The motherboard and case are ok but the power supply had a problem and in 
trying to fix it managed to fry the drives and drive enclosures.

There are 2 4 drive SATA holders and 5 drive SATA holder but unfortunately 
the back-plane electronics look to be fried.

If someone wants it they are welcome to it otherwise it will be going to 
the recycling dumpster.


-- 
Alvin Starr   ||   voice: (905)513-7688
Netvel Inc.   ||   Cell:  (416)806-0133
al...@netvel.net  ||

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Re: [GTALUG] Portable Backup Drive Compatible with Linux (and Recommended Backup Software)

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

I just ordered 2x:

  WD 1TB Elements Portable Hard Drive USB 3.0 Model WDBUZG0010BBK-EESN 
Black


@ $69.99 each (save $30 off regular price)

From www.newegg.ca

Sale ends tomorrow.

Steve


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Re: [GTALUG] Portable Backup Drive Compatible with Linux (and Recommended Backup Software)

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Please see below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "znoteer--- via talk" <talk@gtalug.org>

To: <talk@gtalug.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Portable Backup Drive Compatible with Linux (and 
Recommended Backup Software)




On Thu, Feb 2, 2017, at 11:01, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:






6. Includes a custom-designed and compact, easily-attached retro-fit



"grip" for the portable HDD, the grip eliminates all cable
strain on the
USB-A connector, yet is small enough so that the portable HDD,
together
with the grip and coiled USB-A-to-USB-C cable, still all easily
fit into
a small Canada Post P.O. box at any Postal Outlet. (Although the fine
print in the CP P.O. Box rental contract, specifically excludes box
use
for "storage". I have never had any problems with my local Postal



Outlet, over my storing backup media in the box.)




Interesting idea to store a backup in a postal outlet.



Not a very good idea, I must admit.







My thinking for this USB HDD docking station design is, once my new



debian Linux PC is operational, to consider developing the docking



station as a saleable product, likely through a crowd-funded



premium-based financing model, where the premium will be a



deeply-discounted early-release model of the docking station.




I hope you'll announce any eventual financing campaign on the list!



I'm kind of hoping for a backup dock "magic bullet" to come flying at me 
from GTALUG, so I won't have to actually develop a new dock.


If I do decide that there's no other satisfactory backup dock solution, 
then certainly GTALUG will be the first to know about any crowd-funded 
initiative. It's GTALUG after all, who are responsible for sparking the 
idea, in the first place :)


I'm thinking of open-sourcing any dock device design anyway, so if I do 
open source it, I would share it with GTALUG.





--



 znot...@hailmail.net





--
http://www.fastmail.com - Access all of your messages and folders
 wherever you are









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Re: [GTALUG] Portable Backup Drive Compatible with Linux (and Recommended Backup Software)

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Please see below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Stewart C. Russell via talk" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Portable Backup Drive Compatible with Linux (and 
Recommended Backup Software)




On 2017-02-02 03:32 PM, znoteer--- via talk wrote:


Interesting idea to store a backup in a postal outlet.


CP likely has the right to remove anything from a box that they 
suspect

is being stored, so I wouldn't rely on this.



Very true. I'm not happy with using the CP P.O. Box, but I really don't 
have much choice at the moment.


I was formerly using a mailbox at a nearby UPS Store, and their 
management had no problems with the backup media storage concept. But 
unfortunately, the owners of that UPS franchise location closed the 
store, and now the nearest available UPS Store is too far away.


I was thinking of approaching the Oakville Public Library, to see if 
they might perhaps be interested in getting in to the offsite storage 
business. They have a very extensive system of branch locations, and 
they run a pretty impressive operation for keeping track of lots of 
small items containing information ...



I hope you'll announce any eventual financing campaign on the list!


SATA docks are already a commodity thing, with video users moving 
tonnes
of data around via bare drives in slip cases. Canada Computers has USB 
3

SATA docks for under $40.



I did look at SATA docks, and found only the one from www.startech.com 
that had a cooling fan, but I'll go back and look again. Maybe a cooling 
fan isn't so important, for a backup drive that isn't being hammered 
constantly 24 / 7 with updates?


It would make me feel a little nervous, the idea of slinging around an 
HDD with an exposed SATA bus connector. USB gives me a better feeling of 
comfort, since the USB connector is designed to be end-user operable, 
and presumably likely is more robust than the SATA, under conditions of 
e.g. static electrical effects.



cheers,
Stewart

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Re: [GTALUG] Portable Backup Drive Compatible with Linux (and Recommended Backup Software)

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Please see below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Michael Galea via talk" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Portable Backup Drive Compatible with Linux (and 
Recommended Backup Software)




On 02/02/17 16:54, Stewart C. Russell via talk wrote:

On 2017-02-02 03:32 PM, znoteer--- via talk wrote:


Interesting idea to store a backup in a postal outlet.


CP likely has the right to remove anything from a box that they 
suspect

is being stored, so I wouldn't rely on this.

A standard 5" hard drive just fits into the smallest safety deposit 
box at my local bank, so that's what I use.  This runs me ~$40 a year, 
but I have other stuff I have to store there anyway so its costless.




Certainly a bank SDB is a far more secure and safe storage facility, 
than a Postal Outlet P.O. Box.


I suppose it depends on how often one swaps the off-site backup. I swap 
mine three (3) or more times a week, and I don't relish the idea of 
going though the linup, signature, etc. rigamarole at my bank, so often.



--
Michael Galea
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Re: [GTALUG] Portable Backup Drive Compatible with Linux (and Recommended Backup Software)

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Warm Greetings To The GTALUG Community,

Portable Backup Drive -- A deeply interesting subject !!

* * *
* * *

I would suggest a NAS box just because you can stick it in a corner 
and
just about everything you will want to backup will connect to the 
network.

Or even backup over wifi.


Sounds like an interesting idea, but:
-- NAS does come with the complexities of networking;
-- is a NAS box likely to be convenient, for frequent off-site / on-site 
cycling of backup media??




I have had mixed luck with USB drives.
I find they are ok for moving some files around but trying to clone a
lot of files tends to break some usb->sata chip-sets.



Are there any particular usb->sata chip-sets, that you would care to 
single out for praise or criticism?


What abou the -- JMicron - JMS561 -- chip-set that is used in the 
www.startech.com HDD docking station that I mention below ??


* * *
* * *

Earlier, thanks to some excellent advice I received via the GTALUG email 
forum, I bought a 1 TB WD My Passport Ultra portable USB HDD. This 
acquisition was done as part of my plan to migrate soon from a very 
ancient Dell Windows XP desktop PC to debian Linux running on a brand 
new custom-configured desktop PC.


While it was somewhat painful to get the WD portable USB drive working 
with Windows XP:
1. the drive comes GPT formatted, which is not a supported partitioning 
scheme under XP ( I used NTFS);
2. tricky to get the drive recognized as a partitioned USB device under 
XP;


The WD drive works fine. Backups can take a long time (the Dell PC is 
USB 2.0, not 3.0), but not longer than I usually sleep in one stretch :)


I'm using backup software SyncBackFree V7.6.28.0 on the Windows XP box, 
for mirroring my many NTFS partitions, on to the WD USB HDD.


* * *
* * *

The advice about the WD Elements versus the Passport came too late for 
me. But I can assure the forum that, after I looked at the backup 
application software that comes with the WD Passport, I chose not to 
touch it at all. Seems way to wedded to the world of Microsoft, for my 
taste.


I plan to buy two (2) more WD USB drives for backup, and I'll definitely 
try to get the Elements model, per GTALUG advice.


* **
* * *

During my research into these portable USB HDDs, I came across several 
complaints (Amazon customer experience postings) about failures of the 
electrical connectivity of the USB cable / connector. With a portable 
USB drive, there can be frequent connector insertion / removal cycles. 
It seems that the early USB connector standards are not engineered for 
this kind of frequent duty cycle.


By contrast, the USB-C connector standard has been designed to be robust 
under conditions of frequent insertion / removal (minimum 10,000 
insertion / removal cycles.)


Being concerned also, about reports I read of portable drives 
overheating, under conditions of sustained intensive data access, I 
looked for a fan-cooled docking station. Found one, that accepts 
insertion of an (internal not USB) SATA-bus drive, and that presents it 
as a USB drive to the host computer:

-- www.startech.com
 -- eSATA USB 3.0 Docking Station 2.5_3.5 Inches SATA 3 UASP Built-In 
Fan (SDOCKU33EF)


But on closer inspection, this docking station seemed to have too many 
disadvantages:

-- big exposed cooling fan would likely be too noisy;
-- clumsy balancing legs to fold out;
-- high-force mechanical latch mechnanism, likely subjects the HDD to 
too much repeaqted mechanical shock;


So, I have designed a simple docking station that:

1.enables low-mechanical-force insertion and removal of the portable 
drive, but still keeps it securely in place;


2. Provides an enclosed drive bay with integral cooling fan inside, for 
quiet efficient cooling operation;


3. Accepts a USB HDD with a USB-A jack, so no need to provide any 
electrical bus contacts at all (e.g. SATA), in the drive bay;


4. Provides a USB-C connector on the outside front of the docking 
station enclosure, so a short USB-A-to-USB-C cable connects the HDD, 
with the USB-A connector staying permanently plugged to the portable 
HDD, while the other end of the cable carries the USB-C conenctor for 
reliable frequent connector insertion / temoval via the USB-C jack on 
the exterior of the docking station;


5. Provides USB-B and USB-C host-side connectors on the rear panel of 
the docking station;


6. Includes a custom-designed and compact, easily-attached retro-fit 
"grip" for the portable HDD, the grip eliminates all cable strain on the 
USB-A connector, yet is small enough so that the portable HDD, together 
with the grip and coiled USB-A-to-USB-C cable, still all easily fit into 
a small Canada Post P.O. box at any Postal Outlet. (Although the fine 
print in the CP P.O. Box rental contract, specifically excludes box use 
for "storage". I have never had any problems with my local Postal 
Outlet, over my storing backup media in the box.)


My thinking for this USB HDD docking station design is, 

Re: [GTALUG] looking for a secondary mx service

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Dave,

- Original Message - 
From: "Dave Cramer via talk" 

To: "GTALUG" 
Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 8:04 PM
Subject: [GTALUG] looking for a secondary mx service



I have 4 domains that I need a secondary mx service for.

Suggestions?


Not sure what you mean by " secondary" mx service, but if you're asking 
for suggestions for a good email hosting service, I can recommend 
SiteGround  www.siteground.com


* * *
* * *

I was using AT for many many years for my email hosting (inherited 
them when IBM sold off their email hosting service (ibmglobal.net) to 
AT


Was never happy with AT Some beautiful screw-ups ... Plus absurdly 
know-nothing AT technical "support" people.


Wanted for a long time to switch from my apet...@attglobal.net email 
address to my own domain name apet...@aspetrie.net  but was intimidated 
by the amount of work this would entail.


Then AT did me a huge favour, by announcing many months in advance, 
the planned termination of their existing attglobal.net email hosting 
service.


* * *
* * *

The upside of using one's own email domain name, of course, is that once 
it's set up, and all the work is done of: 1. informing your list of 
recipients, and 2. updating every place on the Internet, where you are 
registered using your email address as your identifier,


is that in the future, if you are unhappy with your email hosting 
service, you can switch to a new email hosting provider without having 
to go through all the work emtailed in changing the email address. 
Because, of course, the email address stays the same. You just point 
your MX records to the new service provider, and say "bye bye" to the 
old service provider.


* * *
* * *

Once AT announced their planned email service shutdown, I spent a huge 
amount of time researching email hosting service providers


I tested three different email hosting services (going to the trouble of 
setting up a test domain for each, and sending and receiving test 
messages) and walked way from every one, for one reason or another. 
Most;ly because of the lack of quality technical support. It's a jungle 
out there !! But you already know that.


I actually went to live production email operation with the second of 
these three providers, and used them for my production email for a few 
months. But I decided not to stay with them, because I didn't like the 
attitude of their tech support people. They were technically very 
competent, but seemed to take a confrontational approach to clients.


So I kept searching, and after almost giving up, I settled on 
www.siteground.com Made the switchover to SG on 2 July 2015. No regrets 
yet ...


* * *
* * *

SiteGround (SG) are actually focused on website hosting, not email 
hosting. But they happen to offer email hosting (SMTP, IMAP, POP3) as 
part of their web hosting packages. I haven't set up a website at SG 
yet, but I did create an FTP account on SG for someone I'm working with. 
That works fine, too.


I have been very happy with SG. Their technical support is excellent. 
Works through a good ticketing system. The staff are very knowledgeable 
and very responsive. Very literate, too. Always (so far) giving complete 
correct answers, using connected sentences. Nailed the usual startup 
problems very quickly.


The only times I have actually had recourse to SG tech support was: 1. 
during the original switchover to SG, 2. when an email I sent was 
rejected by the SG SMTP server, because it had more than 40 recipients, 
and 3. when I upgraded the SG hosting plan so I could send an email to 
more than 40 recipients.


The SG help pages and FAQ I have found to be useful. Love the CPANEL.

And of course the main thing -- never had any email service down time 
(yet) with SG.


* * *
* * *

SG are not the cheapest provider, but I long ago stopped looking for the 
cheapest service of any kind on the Internet. I'm very focused on value 
for money. And in my opinion, SG give excellent value for the money they 
charge.


Naturally, you will need to do your own research. SG don't do short-term 
deals. And if you go with SG, your results may differ ...


Hope this helps.

Steve

apet...@aspetrie.net
(905) 847-3253

P.S. One rule I follow with hosting services. I always use a different 
provider for DNS hosting (in my case it's Namecheap), than for the 
Internet server (e.g. website, email, ftp) hosting.


If I run into a dispute with the (e.g. website, email, ftp) server 
hosting service, I don't want them to be able to cause me grief by 
holding my DNS registration setup to ransom. This split makes it a 
little more complicated (you don't get the same slick DNS integration, 
if you e.g. upgrade your hosting service plan, and this points you to a 
server with a different IP address).


But in my opinion, the complete independence of control over the DNS 
setup is well worth the extra complication.




Dave Cramer

Re: [GTALUG] curious... Linux vs BSD ?

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Greetings To GTALUG Talk,

- Original Message - 
From: "Christopher Browne via talk" 
To: ; "Myles Braithwaite" ; 
"GTALUG Talk" 

Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2016 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] curious... Linux vs BSD ?




I'm occasionally attracted to take a peek at Dragonfly BSD, as it has
been trying to do some substantial reimplementations of some of the
internals with particular view to improving performance and supporting
clustering.  The HAMMER filesystem is one of the interesting bits;
some data deduplication capabilities, and a BSD flavour on the
"advanced" stuff like snapshotting, journalling, et al.


I'm also intrigued by DragonFlyBSD (dfly). Mainly for the same two 
reasons that Chistopher Browne cites: 1. great speed, 2. robust HAMMER 
file system (HAMMER1).


Although my project to use dfly has been on hold due to other 
priorities, I did install dfly on a QEMU / KVM virtual server at 
www.elastichosts.com. Haven't done much with dfly there yet. The plan is 
to use dfly for a website (php, postgresql, nginx).


I am subscribed to the dfly general discussion list. Mostly just 
lurking. Very encouraged to see the dfly team respond well, to calls for 
help with dfly failures, from another list participant who is running an 
app under dfly on a VM. More than one fix to the dfly virtio drivers has 
been delivered. It seems that most dfly servers run on bare metal. But I 
have argued on the dfly list for good dfly support also for QEMU / KVM 
VMs as they are a good entry point for budget-constrained projects based 
on dfly.


There also are a few people trying to use dfly as a desktop o/s. 
However, the main thrust of dfly seems to be in the server arena.


Steve 


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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Greetings To GTALUG Members,

Having gratefully received an avalanche of helpful postings from GTALUG 
members, and based on that advice, I provide below a summary of the revisions 
to the original specification of components, for the new desktop PC.

Please find attached a PDF summary of the revised PC configuration:
  a.. .
The price may seem high, given that this is not a gamer's PC. There is no video 
graphics support beyond that on the Intel CPU.

This PC is a heavy-duty professional / business PC. The objective of this PC is 
to provide fast performance, with the ability to run cool and cruising (not 
struggling) under constant 24 / 7 duty. Also there is provision for future 
expansion, without overtaxing cooling capacity or power supply.

Please note that the revised specification attached, includes only the Windows 
7 operating system, and makes no mention of the Linux operating system. 
Omission of Linux is intentional, as commercial system builders typically are 
only interested in shipping PCs with Windows. So the plan is to do the Linux 
installation after the PC is received from the builder.

I am now going to request price quotations for the PC as specified, from a 
number of commercial PC builders.

If no satisfactory commercial builder quotation ensues (meaning: acceptable 
price and no component substitutions), then I will likely resort to the 
build-it-yourself option, with kind help from GTALUG. There is a hybrid build 
option: get the motherboard built commercially, and then personally complete 
the build from there.

* * * 
* * *

RAM

Increase the RAM size from 8 GB to 16 GB (2 x 8GB DIMM).

The ASRock Z97 Extreme6 motherboard has 4 DDR-3 slots, providing for  future 
memory expansion to the maximum 32 GB supported by the Intel i5-4460 CPU.

* * * 
* * *

DIALUP MODEMS AND DSL (DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER LINE)

It appears that Linux (and Windows) are keeping up support for: 1. USB  dial up 
modems and 2. PPP network protocol, to enable tethering of GSM  phones to the 
OS, as dial up modems (for e.g. file transfer).

Therefore it is very likely that the same support (for USB dial up  modems and 
PPP) on Linux, should also work on Linux with a real USB dial  up modem (e,g, 
USR5637 56K V.92 USB modem).

Dial up modems today still find uses, in situations where land line  telephone 
service is the only wired Internet connection available: 1. in  some rural 
areas, and 2. with portable computers away from home base,  e.g. in hotel room. 
Also: some point-of-sale payment transaction systems  use dial up modems, for 
improved security.

Terminology: "hard line" = "land line" = POTS (plain old telephone  service) = 
physical twisted pair of copper wires that electrically  connect a subscriber's 
equipment, to the remote telephone exchange and  thereby to the PSTN (public 
switched telephone network).

Terminology: DSL (digital subscriber line) = ADSL (asymmetric digital  
subscriber line), the "asymmetric" means that upstream communications  (from 
local to remote) and downstream communications (from remote to  local) use 
different frequency ranges (Up: 26.075 .. 137.825 kHz, Down:  138 .. 1104 kHz).

DSL service can share the same hard line with analog devices (e.g.  telephone, 
dial up modem, fax machine) because DSL uses much higher  modulation 
frequencies (26.075 .. 1104 kHz) than do conventional (human  voice band) 
analog devices (0 .. 4 kHz).

However, in order for DSL and analog devices to share the same wire pair  hard 
line without interference, the DSL modem must be electrically  isolated from 
the analog devices (and vice-versa), to prevent mutual  interference  caused by 
secondary effects of signals generated by the  various devices on the line.

The necessary isolation between the DSL modem and the analog devices on  the 
same wire pair line, is achieved by adding a DSL filter between each  analog 
device (e.g. telephone, dial up modem) and the line.

For convenience, a variation on the DSL filter, called a DSL filter /  
splitter, provides two jacks on the same filter device, one (unfiltered)  jack 
for connecting the DSL modem and one (filtered) jack for connecting  an analog 
device (e.g. telphone, dial up modem).

Adding decision complexity to a DSL service acquisition, are  availability of 
more modern DSL standards that offer significantly  higher speeds: ADSL2, VDSL 
and VDSL2.

Given that, with DSL service installed on the hard line, it will still  be 
feasible to continue to use on the same hard line, the dial up modem  on the 
existing Windows XP PC, why not go straight to using DSL for the  new Linux PC, 
and skip entirely any use of a dial up modem (e.g. USR5637  56K V.92 USB modem) 
on the new PC?

Here are my reasons for first using a dial up modem on the new Linux PC:
  a.. #1 Postpone the non-trivial task of: specifying and provisioning DSL 
service (service type decision, modem selection, service  implementation). DSL 
will be a too large distraction from the main  

Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Alvin,

Please see my comments inline below.

Steve

apet...@aspetrie.net

- Original Message - 
From: "Alvin Starr via talk" 
To: "James Knott" ; "GTALUG Talk" 


Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 4:28 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP 
PC;




On 08/09/2016 04:15 PM, James Knott via talk wrote:

On 08/09/2016 04:12 PM, Kevin Cozens via talk wrote:
I've given up on the use of tape. I use external hard drives for 
backup.
You should always back up with tar to 9 track tape stands, the way 
the

computer gods intended.  ;-)
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And keep your audio recordings on 1"  reel to reel instrumentation
recorders like we did at Digital Recording.

On 4mm backups.
There was a customer who used a 4mm backup and backed up every night.

The one thing someone forgot to tell them was to replace the tapes.

After about 4 years the disk failed.

The tapes were transparent.



After the customer's nightly backup process wrote to the tape, was there 
also a separate verify phase, that rewound and read through the entire 
tape, and compared its contents with the HDD data?


Surely a verify phase would have failed with unreadable (transparent) 
tapes. And failure of the verify phase, would have alerted the customer 
to the unreadability problem with the tapes.



Guess how this story ended?



The story ended very badly, no doubt. The cruel "nasty surprise" 
downside, of our beautiful profession ...



--
Alvin Starr   ||   voice: (905)513-7688
Netvel Inc.   ||   Cell:  (416)806-0133
al...@netvel.net  ||









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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Alvin,

Thanks for your response.

Please see my comments inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Alvin Starr" <al...@netvel.net>
To: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." <apet...@aspetrie.net>; "GTALUG Talk" 
<talk@gtalug.org>

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2016 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP 
PC;




Tape drives are hard to come by these days.
Have you thought about a USB drive for backup?


I do plan to use portable USB drives for backup on the new Linux PC.

I did consider getting the portable USB drives now, and using them for 
backup on the existing Windows XP PC. However, I prefer not to mess 
around with changing the backup method on the Windows XP PC, since I 
plan to stop using it as soon as the new Linux PC is operational.


There are plenty of inexpensive used DDS-3 tape drives available e.g. on 
eBay, and from other sources.



Or a NAS box.
There are several inexpensive 1 and 2 drive NAS enclosures that you 
can

get to put on your local network.


As with the portable USB drive idea, I prefer not to complicate the 
Windows XP setup, by attaching new devices.





It may be worth looking into getting the drive fixed.
I believe that Memofix(http://www.memofix.com/) will repair tape 
drives.


Thanks for the tip !! I see they are a Canadian firm, so no 
border-crossing complications.


I will investigate further.





On 08/09/2016 09:35 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:

Greetings To GTALUG Members,

A setback has occurred in my project to acquire a new Linux PC.

On the Windows XP PC that is going to be replaced by the new Linux 
PC,

the DDS-3 DAT SCSI tape drive has died, that does backup duty for the
HDD. Died too soon by only a couple of months -- !@#$%^&*(!!

Since it could still take a few months for me to complete the
acquisition of and conversion to the new Linux PC, I am not going to
risk operating the Windows XP PC without regular HDD backup for so 
long.


So, I need to source a replacement tape drive for the Windows XP PC,
before I can continue with acquisition of the new Linux PC.

A soon as I have a replacement tape drive operating on the Windows XP
PC, I will resume the Linux PC acquisition project, and complete the
revisions to
the specification of components, per advice from GTALUG members.

Regards,

Steve

* * *

Steve Petrie, P.Eng.

ITS-ETO Consortium
Oakville, Ontario, Canada
(905) 847-3253
apet...@aspetrie.net

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--
Alvin Starr   ||   voice: (905)513-7688
Netvel Inc.   ||   Cell:  (416)806-0133
al...@netvel.net  ||




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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Greetings To GTALUG Members,

A setback has occurred in my project to acquire a new Linux PC.

On the Windows XP PC that is going to be replaced by the new Linux PC,
the DDS-3 DAT SCSI tape drive has died, that does backup duty for the
HDD. Died too soon by only a couple of months -- !@#$%^&*(!!

Since it could still take a few months for me to complete the
acquisition of and conversion to the new Linux PC, I am not going to
risk operating the Windows XP PC without regular HDD backup for so long.

So, I need to source a replacement tape drive for the Windows XP PC,
before I can continue with acquisition of the new Linux PC.

A soon as I have a replacement tape drive operating on the Windows XP
PC, I will resume the Linux PC acquisition project, and complete the 
revisions to

the specification of components, per advice from GTALUG members.

Regards,

Steve

* * *

Steve Petrie, P.Eng.

ITS-ETO Consortium
Oakville, Ontario, Canada
(905) 847-3253
apet...@aspetrie.net

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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Hugh,

Thanks for your message.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "D. Hugh Redelmeier" 
To: "Russell Reiter" ; "GTALUG Talk" 


Cc: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." 
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP 
PC;




| From: Russell Reiter via talk 

| > So, if I buy a white box (e.g. Dell) I'll have to wipe the HDD and 
start

| again,
|
| Dell is a branded manufacturer. OEM whiteboxes are usually assembled 
by a
| local integrator, or yourself, from branded and or unbranded parts 
you

| source out.







Generally speaking, each manufacturer makes an inexpensive, flashy,
and fast-changing line of products for consumers, and a more
expensive, staid, reliable, stable line for businesses.  (Servers are
another line, but this can blur.)

It sure seems that Steve would want a business model.  Assuming he
wants a pre-built model at all.



Right -- I want a business model.


Most of my experience with business models has been buying them
off-lease.  These machines have been pretty solid and reliable.  Oh,
and old.


I want new hardware, for the last computer I will probably ever buy.





Business desktops often seem to support VGA and DisplayPort.  DVI is
disappearing faster than VGA and HDMI isn't generally supported.  This
might affect the choice of monitor.




Hmmm -- thanks for the tip.

I'd better check my research, re: Intel on-chip video support, versus 
the monitor I have chosen:


LG 22MB35DM-I 21.5" Monitor Full HD 1080p 1920x1080 IPS LED Back-lit, 
DVI-D, D-Sub,
contrast ratios: (static 1,000:1), (dynamic 5M:1), reader mode, 
flicker-safe;







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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Russell,

Thanks for your message.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Russell Reiter" 
To: "GTALUG Talk" ; "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." 


Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP 
PC;









[3] case with plenty of free expansion slots, fan mounts and generous 
air

flow clearances;

Here's the top critical review of your case, at least I think it's the 
same

one. I lifted this from Newegg. Note the issue with SSD mounts.

8/26/2015 8:29:07 PM

   Pros: It looks nice. It's quiet. Cable management is okay.

   Cons: The case came bent near the power supply. This was easily 
fixable

but it says something about how they package the case for shipping. My
friend ordered a Define S case and his came with even more damage. The 
back
of the case was bent and the LED light plug was broken. This does not 
make
me want to buy another fractal design product. The biggest complaint I 
have
about the case is that ssd mounts don't fit either of my ssd's. 
Admittedly
I do have on ssd that is slightly bigger than the other, but the 
smaller
one is a standard 2.5" drive that I can't mount because it's too big 
for
the mount they designed. It makes me wonder if any ssd's can fit in 
this

mount. Overall I'm not impressed.



I'm not impressed, either.

Based on earlier GTALUG advice (from Lennart) that the front door on the 
Fractal Design case (if closed) is inviting a self-ejecting optical 
drive to destroy itself, I already decided to drop the Fractal Design 
case(with its front door) and I'm going to investigate Lennart's 
suggested substitution: Silverstone TJ04-E.



Here's the review which led me to the previous, which I think is your
choice.

http://m.newegg.com/Product/TopReviewDetails?itemnumber=N82E16811352049=True



I couldn't find the exact critical review from which you got the 
critical review snippet, but the damage to the case, and the lack of SSD 
mount space, just confirm my decision to drop the Fractal Design case.





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Russell
Sent from mobile.

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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Loui,

Thanks for your message.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Loui Chang" <louipc@gmail.com>
To: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." <apet...@aspetrie.net>; "GTALUG Talk" 
<talk@gtalug.org>

Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP 
PC;




On Mon 25 Jul 2016 10:47 -0400, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:





I have almost no Linux / Unix experience.


After reading this thread for awhile I feel like I need to be some 
kind of voice
of reason here. I think it would be unwise to replace your main PC by 
struggling

with a new OS, struggling with hardware/build, etc.

My advice:
- Get yourself an inexpensive off the shelf Windows 10 computer.
  Windows 10 isn't really the nightmare that Win 8 was in terms of UI.
  You should do just fine with it.
- Use free and open source software on Windows as much as you can.
- Here you can figure out how to export your emails into a 
free/universal format
- If you still feel like trying Linux, then make yourself some Live 
USB flash

  drives to play around with.
- etc...



It would certainly be a lot less work for me, simply to get an 
off-the-shelf Windows 10 PC, to replace the existing Windows XP PC. But 
there would still be a lot of work, considering that there is no 
transparent upgrade from Windows XP to Windows 10.


I do not want to continue to use a Microsoft OS as my primary OS.

My concession to Microsoft, is to purchase an OEM-license Windows 7 for 
installation on the new Linux PC, as a fall-back environment for Windows 
apps (from the existing Win XP PC or not).


The main reasons I want to get away from Microsoft:

1. From what I understand, Microsoft has been known to sneakily 
automatically "update" a PC to Windows 10 from an earlier version of 
Windows. Is this true? Regardless, I already loathe Microsoft enough 
that I have no desire to continue using a MS OS.


2, I have read that Windows 10 gathers usage statistics and delivers 
them to Microsoft. No thanks !!


3. Linux, being open source, is known to be more secure than a Microsoft 
OS. Plus, considering that so few desktops run Linux, as compared to 
Windows, this makes Linux a much less "interesting" target for malware 
practitioners.


* * *
* * *

Although I have little hands-on Linux experience, I am a "retired" 
software engineer, with over 30 years independent contract programming 
experience.


I have already confirmed that the critical apps I use on Win XP, have 
suitable versions / replacements on Linux.


Years ago, I did some extensive progamming work on a large insurance 
company's IBM AIX (flavour of Unix), using the Korn shell. Hooked up 
that company, to an online securities trading service network, so 3rd. 
party stockbrokers can sell to their clients, the insurance co's 
financial products (GICs, annuities).


I have plenty of command line experience on Win XP: cmd.exe, MySQL 
client, PostgreSQL client.


Also, I am already doing some work on debian Linux and DragonFlyBSD, on 
cloud-hosted KVM VMs.


So I'm not at all afraid of Linux. In fact I look forward to the 
stimulating challenge of learning Linux.


Finally, I look forward to enjoying a tremendous sense of moral 
satisfaction, from having refused to bend the knee to the Microsoft 
monopoly. This will be the last time I pay money to MS (Windows 7 on the 
new Linux PC, will not be the primary OS, the debian 8 will be the 
primary OS).







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Re: [GTALUG] GTALUG - BUILDING DEBIAN 8 PC TO REPLACE WIN XP PC

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Loui,

Thanks for your message.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Loui Chang" <louipc@gmail.com>
To: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." <apet...@aspetrie.net>; "GTALUG Talk" 
<talk@gtalug.org>

Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] GTALUG - BUILDING DEBIAN 8 PC TO REPLACE WIN XP PC



On Sat 30 Jul 2016 01:26 -0400, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
Maybe I'm just a Nervous Nellie, but I would rather try first to get 
the
Linux PC to work with a dial-up modem, so I can continue to use 
dial-up on

the Windows XP PC for my live production email operations.


There is no need. You can use dial up and DSL simulaneously. Thus you 
can keep

using the Windows PC and dialup at the same time as a Linux PC on DSL.


I do realize that the DSL modem provides a dial up "line" in parallel 
with the high-bandwidth DSL link.


However, there is still a difference between: 1. a telephone link over a 
twisted pair of physical copper wires, and 2. an emulation of a 
telephone link, over a DSL modem.


So, I prefer not to make the switch from dial up to DSL, until after the 
new Linux PC is working using a dial up modem with the current plain 
copper twisted-pair connection. While the Win XP system continues to 
work for live production Internet use, as always, via dial up modem over 
the twisted pair.


* * *
* * *

Based on Russell Reiter's advice that a (e.g. USRobotics) USB dial up 
modem looks promising for use with Linux, and based on my subsequent my 
research into this USB modem idea, I am pretty confident that a USB dial 
up modem will work on Linux debian 8.


So the plan will be:

0. Continue to use the existing Win XP PC dial up modem as usual, 
connecting to the dial up ISP over the existing twisted copper pair 
telephone landline.


1. Get the new Linux PC working with a USB dial up modem, connecting to 
the dial up ISP over the same existing dial up twisted copper pair 
telephone landline.


2, Migrate email folders and email operations (sending, receiving via 
POP3) from the Win XP PC to the Linux PC, while the new Linux PC uses 
the USB dial up modem for its Internet connection. Migrate the mail 
folders using a direct high-speed Ethernet crossover cable connection 
between the Win XP PC and the Linux PC.


3. Upgrade the telco twisted copper pair line to DSL service from plain 
landline telephone service.


4. Get the new Linux PC to connect to the (DSL) ISP, using the DSL line 
service, instead of using the USB dial up modem and dial up ISP.


5. Try (as Loui suggests) using the dial up modem on the Windows XP PC, 
through the DSL modem's voice phone link, to connect to the dial up ISP.



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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Christopher,

Thanks for your message.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Christopher Browne" 
To: "GTALUG Talk" ; "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." 


Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP 
PC;




Vis a vis the email part, I would think it possible that it should be
pretty easy to replicate IMAP locally.

I haven't used this in several years, but have installed and used a 
system

called offlineimap (see http://www.offlineimap.org/) which made it
relatively easy to duplicate IMAP repositories on a per user basis.

It needed only a couple lines of configuration per source.  And note 
it is

available as a Debian package :-)
https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=offlineimap



In my case, I prefer to avoid IMAP and find some more direct way to 
mass-convert the Outlook Express local email folders on the Win XP PC, 
over to Thunderbird local email folders on Linux.


However, if using IMAP as an intermediary representation, turns out to 
be a good way to do the email mass-conversion, then the offlineimap 
system could prove a usefully simple way to get IMAP support for the 
conversion.


I took a quick look at the offlineimap website. Looks like the product 
is still active, and also that a replacement product project is ongoing.


 


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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Dee,

Thanks for your message.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "o1bigtenor" <o1bigte...@gmail.com>
To: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." <apet...@aspetrie.net>; "GTALUG Talk" 
<talk@gtalug.org>

Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2016 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP 
PC;




On Sat, Jul 30, 2016 at 12:24 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk
<talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
snip




I cannot speak to whether or not it is actually supported but I can 
tell you

that you can install Linux (Debian in my case) on a system with both
secure boot and UEFI.



You are correct -- according to the debian 8 docs, there is (improved) 
UEFI support in debian 8. It is the secure boot that is not supported.



(My system was in for warranty repair and when I got it back the main
system disc had been replaced. As well the windows boot manager had
been enabled (and used), all this even though I had had Debian 
(testing)

installed previously.


(Shudder.)

So, is it a correct presumption that, when you got the system back from 
warranty repair, the new main system disk had been configured with a PC 
seller's "standard" Microsoft Windows installation, setup to secure boot 
only windows, through the windows boot manager?


I am hoping that it will be feasible for me to specify to the PC system 
builder, both: 1. HDD partitioning configuration (there's only one HDD), 
and 2. multi-boot setup (ready for a drop-in debian 8 installation). So 
the debian installation I will do myself, requires minimal messing with 
the boot setup.



This were not straightforward but I was able to get
things to where I wanted them. Had to disable the windows boot manager
and use the UEFI disc configuration (gpart/gparted is your friend 
here!)

and then determine how to work through the secure boot malaise.
What I did I don't remember


Too bad you don't remember.

But, do you now have your PC configured with multi-boot, so you can boot 
on bare metal, either: 1. Microsoft Windows or 2. debian Linux?


If you do have such a multi-boot setup operational, may I come back and 
pick your brain on your multi-boot setup? (After I have updated my 
proposed PC hardware configuration per GTALUG advice, and also 
established revised benchmark pricing through PCPartPicker.)



just remember that it was quite an odessey and
more than somewhat frustrating but I was successful - - - and I'm not
at all competent as a programmer nor any kind of 'under the hood' 
person

when it comes to computers. I'm just a tool user when it comes to
computers at this point and wishing I could keep it there!)



The "odessey" part I can relate to. I like to refer to those kinds of 
struggles as "character building".


I'm a computer-tool user also, but I do have programming skills, and a 
certain comfort level getting under the hood. However, I would like to 
minimize the dirty hands, by researching ahead and developing an 
understanding of the multi-boot setup (windows + debian).


My preferred scenario has the PC system builder delivering the new PC, 
with Microsoft Windows 7 (OEM) installed to boot onto bare metal, but 
with a pre-agreed HDD partitioning and multi-boot setup, so it's a 
straightforward drop-in installation task, for me to add a debian 8 
Linux, that also boots onto bare metal. The idea is to avoid wiping the 
windows installation and boot setup, as delivered by the PC system 
builder, so as to keep the system builder committed to my mental health 
:)


Once the new Linux PC is settled in and working, as a windows + debian 
multi-boot system, I'd be happy to document in detail, the whole 
partition configuration and multi-boot setup.


To add complication, I would like, once the new PC is booting debian 
Linux from the HDD onto bare metal, to imrove performance by providing 
for debian to boot (mostly) from a "shadow" copy on the HDD, and then do 
all subsequent dynamic loading of debian components, from the SSD.



Regards

Dee 


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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Loui,

Thanks for your message.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Loui Chang" <louipc@gmail.com>
To: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." <apet...@aspetrie.net>; "GTALUG Talk" 
<talk@gtalug.org>

Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP 
PC;




On Thu 28 Jul 2016 13:51 -0400, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:

I would need two portable backup hard drives (one on-site and one
off-site). I estimate a cost of $375 for a SCSI controller card 
together

with a (used) VXA tape drive. Plus the cost of tape cartridges, of
course. So I'll have to see what 2 x 2.5" portable HDDs will cost. 1 
TB

capacity drives should be sufficient.


Portable external usb hard drives are comically cheaper if you 
consider price

per terabyte.



That's good news. 


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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Hugh,

Thanks for your message.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "D. Hugh Redelmeier" <h...@mimosa.com>
To: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." <apet...@aspetrie.net>; "GTALUG Talk" 
<talk@gtalug.org>

Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 6:29 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP 
PC;




| From: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" <talk@gtalug.org>

| - Original Message - From: "Russell Reiter" 
<rreite...@gmail.com>


| > The hylafax site has a good list of Linux comparable modems.
| >
| > http://www.hylafax.org/site1/modems.html
| >
|
| Brilliant !!
|
| >From what I see at the site, this product looks very promising for 
my

| use:
|
| -- "HylaFAX is a telecommunication system for UNIX systems. It 
supports:
| ... transparent shared data use of the modem" which is exactly what 
I'm

| looking for (data use);

I don't think it is useful to you.

The point of HylaFAX is to support FAXing.  Conveniently, it allowed
non-FAX uses to share the same serial port.  But elsewhere you said
you didn't do any FAXing.  So there is no benefit in running HylaFAX.



So for me, HylaFAX is a cumbersome last-resort workaround, if I can't 
find any easier way to get a dial-up modem working under Linux.


 


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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Clifford,

Thanks for your message.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "CLIFFORD ILKAY via talk" <talk@gtalug.org>

To: <talk@gtalug.org>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP 
PC;




On 28/07/16 01:50 PM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
Interesting. And encouraging. Maybe I can hold out a while longer, 
and keep using dial-up with the new Linux PC, postponing the extra 
expense of DSL versus dial-up. I pay today $15 / mo. (+taxes) for 
dial-up access. My ISP (Start.ca) wants $40 / mo. (plus taxes) for 5 
Mbs DSL service.


If you are spending $15 per month on dial-up Internet, you are also 
spending something for your hard line. I was spending $60 per month my 
hard line until I realized everyone in my home had cell phones and had 
made the hard line superfluous. Your hard line plus the dial-up 
service probably will not cost appreciably more and may end up costing 
less than a DSL or cable Internet service. You will also have a much 
better user experience with that compared to dial-up.




I don't understand what you mean by "hard line".

I use no "hard line" apart from my landline telephone service over the 
telco's twisted copper pair. The dial-up modem connects througn this 
same telephone landline (twisted copper pair) service. I use no cell 
phone. And there's nobody else here.


What is "hard line" technology? Is this not just a generic term for DSL 
(over twisted coper pair) or cable or e.g. Bell Fibe?


When I switch to DSL, the connection is going to use the same twisted 
copper pair, with some fancy new interface at the telco central office 
end, where "my" twisted copper pair terminates. My ISP will provide and 
setup the DSL modem at my end of the twisted copper pair.


Your stated goal of comparing the dial-up experience on XP to Linux is 
really pointless unless you run the test on the same hardware hitting 
the same host at the same time. Of course a 12 year old machine with a 
crufty Windows XP installation running a browser that does not support 
modern web standards is going to be slower than a modern machine 
running any modern operating system running any modern browser. It 
seems like a lot of bother to prove something of little consequence.




My main purpose is not curiosity. It's to minimize the psychological 
stress of the switchover from the Win XP PC to the new Linux PC. Please 
see my reply to Lennart where I explain this.


If one of your concerns in sticking with dial-up is that you still 
want the XP machine to have Internet access, you could add a second 
network card to your new machine and have it act as a 
router/firewall/gateway for the XP machine, which is for the best 
anyway given that XP no longer gets security updates.




Once I have switched to using the new Linux PC as my live production 
system, I hope I never ever need to connect the old Win XP to the 
Internet.


You may be able to convert your Outlook mail to Thunderbird following 
this article. <http://kb.mozillazine.org/Import_.pst_files> Once you 
have converted, set up an IMAP server on the new Linux machine and 
store your mail in IMAP format.




I prefer to avoid all such complications like IMAP. I plan to continue 
to use the same POP3 email hosting service I use now, fetch the email to 
the local Thunderbird installation, and delete the mail from the POP3 
server.


I do not remember when Microsoft switched to the .docx and .xlsx 
formats. If the default file extension in Office 2003 is .doc and 
.xls, it should be quite painless to convert those files to 
Libre/OpenOffice. The newer file formats are a bit trickier but it 
usually works without any problems because most people do not use 
features of Word or Excel that causes problems. I have only run into 
issues with heavily formatted documents and with Excel macros.




In my Outlook Express mail store folder in the Win XP filesystem, I see 
only *.dbx files. I believe *.dbx is some kind of ancient FoxPro-like 
indexed file representation.


If Thunderbird can import a complete Outlook Express email folder 
structure, from a Linux directory containing a copy of the Outlook 
Express mail store folder (with all its *.dbx files) then the mail 
should transfer over easily. I do wonder about implications of the 
difference in text line end conventions, between Windows and Linux.


If Thunderbird cannot import the mail as I describe above, then what I 
would prefer to have, is a complete export of my Outlook Express emails, 
with each email in *.eml format, and the mail folder structure 
represented by a directory structure in the file system. This way I will 
have an open-standards-based archive of all my emails from the Win XP 
PC. Then I will need some kind of "loader" program that loads the 
equivalent email structure into Thunderbird, f

Re: [GTALUG] GTALUG - BUILDING DEBIAN 8 PC TO REPLACE WIN XP PC

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Lennart,

Thanks for your message.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Lennart Sorensen" <lsore...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
To: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." <apet...@aspetrie.net>; "GTALUG Talk" 
<talk@gtalug.org>

Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] GTALUG - BUILDING DEBIAN 8 PC TO REPLACE WIN XP PC


On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 01:50:00PM -0400, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via 
talk wrote:
Mainly because I use dial-upon the Win XP system, and I don't want 
the
hassle of changing it to use DSL, before I get the new Linux PC. 
Also,

I'm curious to see if the experience with dial-up is better on Linux
than on Win XP.


I can't imagine anything that would make it better on Linux.  Web 
pages

are simply not designed with low bandwidth in mind these days.



I agree that dial-up is painfully slow loading many web pages. My 
experience used to be that web pages loaded slowly over dial-up. But 
they always used to load successfully. Over the years there's been a 
gradual degradation in page load reliability until today, when far too 
many pages just fail to load completely on the first attempt and I have 
to retry the load. My ISP (understandably) is not interested in finding 
out the cause of these problems.



I do plan, after the Linux PC is operational, to switch to DSL.


Well in that case, it would seem a waste to buy a modem that works 
with
linux at all.  If you already have one, that's different.  Dialup 
modems

are not that cheap these days due to lack of demand.



Here's the complication that motivates me to first, get a dial-up modem 
working on the new Linux PC, and then, switch the Internet link from 
dial-up to e.g. DSL.


Right now, I run my Internet life (email, web browsing) on the Win XP PC 
using dial-up.


If I switch to DSL before I set up the new Linux PC, then I'm going to 
have to update the Win XP PC to work with the DSL modem (e.g. seeing it 
as an Ethernet router). I really am not keen to mess around with 
changing the Windows XP PC to DSL from dial-up, when I'm planning to 
quit using the Win XP PC anyway.


Maybe I'm just a Nervous Nellie, but I would rather try first to get the 
Linux PC to work with a dial-up modem, so I can continue to use dial-up 
on the Windows XP PC for my live production email operations.


Once I have switched to using the new Linux PC for email and web 
browsing via dial-up modem, then I can comfortably upgrade my telco 
twisted copper pair from dial-up to DSL, and I only have to cope with 
getting the new Linux PC to work with DSL. And never bother to switch 
the Win XP PC over to use DSL.




--
Len Sorensen 


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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Lennart,

Thanks for your message.

My comments are inline below.

Steve


- Original Message - 
From: "Lennart Sorensen" <lsore...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
To: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." <apet...@aspetrie.net>; "GTALUG Talk" 
<talk@gtalug.org>

Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP 
PC;



On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 01:51:33PM -0400, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via 
talk wrote:

"Easy, fast, reliable" sounds pretty tempting to me.







I thought all modern tape drives were SAS these days.



They are but SAS is way overkill for my purposes.


Hmm, VXA, that used to be exabyte, which was 8mm helical scan.  After
dealing with DDS I would never trust helical scan for my data.  No 
way.

Wears out tapes so fast and so unreliable.  Well DDS was, although I
guess those were 4mm tapes.  It looks like VXA is better than that,
but I still see it listed as "The most reliable helical scan", not
"the most reliable tape format".



My experience hasn;t been so bad with DDS-4. The occasional hard read 
errors on verify phase of backup. A tape reformat usually fixes these. 
Or discard the tape and use a new one. They're inexpensive.



It's too bad LTO is rather expensive to buy a drive for.



Yes, too expensive. And LTO cartridges are too large for my liking.




My experience with USB drives is that 3.5" drives tend to fail when
transported, while 2.5" drives are much more durable, but slower and 
of

course smaller in capacity.



I'll gladly take a slower and smaller capacity 2.5" USB drive, to get 
durability.



Another annoyance with tape is that should your place burn down, you
now have to locate another tape drive of the right type to read your
backup again.  That can be a hassle depending on how popular the model 
is.

A USB drive is certainly a lot simpler that way being entirely self
contained.



Very good point.


--
Len Sorensen 


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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Lennart,

Thanks for your message.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Lennart Sorensen" <lsore...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
To: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." <apet...@aspetrie.net>; "GTALUG Talk" 
<talk@gtalug.org>

Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP 
PC;



On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 01:49:29PM -0400, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via 
talk wrote:

The first big porting task will be to convert my Outlook Express mail
folders (2.38 GB) to Thunderbird on Linux. And then start using the
Linux PC for my email.


Why am I thinking:

Setup an IMAP server, point outlook at it, copy mail folders there,
then connect other mail program at it and copy again.



Interesting idea. I would not want the complexity of setting up an IMAP 
server myself, but could use my existing email hosting service to 
provide the IMAP server.


I use POP3 for my email hosting. Just fetch the mail to the Outlook 
Express folder on the Win XP PC, and then delete the mail from the POP3 
server. Less exposure to "sniffing" by whoever. And there's absolutely 
no way I'm going to depend on any hosting service, to backup my precious 
2.38 GB of emails.


I am sure there is a good reason not to do it that way though.  I 
would

be surprised if thunderbird can't import from outlook express files
directly.



The reason for me not to do it [bulk transfer email via IMAP & 
Internet], is the slow bandwidth of my dial-up Internet connection. I 
know, I know, I should abandon dial-up for a faster connection. And I 
plan to. But not until the new Linux PC is fully operational, preferably 
using dial-up.


I will need to connect the existing Windows XP PC and the new Linux PC 
via direct Ethernet cable anyway, to transfer the Win XP HDD contents 
over to the new Linux PC. This will be the fastest way to bulk transfer 
the mail.


Maybe thunderbird can import from Outlook Express files. And that would 
be great.



Of course I keep my mail on the server anyhow, so it is already imap,
and I don't have local folders to move around, so I haven't done that.

--
Len Sorensen 


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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Russell,

Thanks for your message.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Russell Reiter" <rreite...@gmail.com>
To: "GTALUG Talk" <talk@gtalug.org>; "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." 
<apet...@aspetrie.net>

Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2016 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP 
PC;



On Jul 28, 2016 1:48 PM, "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" 
<talk@gtalug.org>

wrote:






However, I received (26 July 2016) a very disappointing quotation 
from

NCIX. Hugely expensive, with substitutions (and omissions). So be
assured, I am still open to building myself.


Just out of curiosity, do you mind if I ask what dollar amount hugely
expensive represents? While the business model has changed to single
purchase with full Windows integration, there are other options 
depending

on the budget.



It was hugely expensive because I missed the fact that it included 
Windows 7 (OEM) at $187.99.


Here's the pricing analysis repeated from a summary email I sent to the 
thread, before I fetched your email:


-   NCIX*   PC PartPicker**
-   -
CPU$269.99$249.25
CPU Cooler  $92.98 $79.95
Motherboard$289.99$228.98
Memory  $44.99 $75.98
-
Case   $144.99$129.99
Power Supply   $214.98$159.99
-
Solid State Drive  $135.70$156.99
Hard Drive  $67.99 $81.95
Optical Drive   $92.98 $86.98
-
Video Monitor  $167.98$167.92
Keyboard$15.98 $40.00
Mouse  (incl.) $10.00
-
Dialup Modem$54.58 $50.00
-
-

TOTAL1:   $1593.13   $1517.98
-
-

MS Windows 7   $187.99
Assemble & Test $49.98
Environ. Fees   $16.65
-
-

TOTAL2:   $1897.73
-
-

My point is, if NCIX can match the component pricing I can get, as 
reported by PCPartPicker (and NCIX does match that pricing), and if the 
NCIX price for assembly and test is reasonable (I consider $49.98 very 
reasonable). Then why would an old guy like me, with already too many 
projects ongoing, want to build my own PC? Where is there any 
significant money to be saved? Certainly there's no time to be saved.


By using NCIX, I'm not going to have to shop all over the place to 
source every component, order it, pay for it. I'm not going to have to 
enjoy the dubious pleasure of hair-pulling "logistics" receiving 
multiple separate deliveries by a variety of couriers from a variety of 
suppliers.


An off the shelf white box, given the times, is most usually able to 
run

Linux quite well. It is the bleeding edge, with the fastest newest
chipsets, and largest capacites where stumbling blocks arise, as some 
of

the others who respond to this thread have indicated.



Yes, I expect that I could maybe shave some cost by buying something on 
sale (because being discontinued) from the latest Dell flyer, with 
Windows 7 pre-installed. I ball-parked it once at a 10% saving with a 
plausible Dell desktop PC comparable to my proposed configuration.


But what then? The disk drive partitioning and boot setup very probably 
won't suit my partitioning needs or provide multi-boot capability for 
adding Linux. When I ordered the existing Dell Windows XP desktop in 
2004, the Dell sales agent cheerfully received and acknowledged my email 
specifying the disk drive partitioning. But of course the Dell build 
assembly line grunts thought that was a joke, and I had to do a lot of 
messing around to re-work the partitioning).


So, if I buy a white box (e.g. Dell) I'll have to wipe the HDD and start 
again, including a Windows 7 install. Way too much fussing around with 
Win 7 for me. I don't intend to get that involved with Win 7. It's just 
there in case I need some Win XP compatibility from a bare-metal boot of 
Win 7 (in case of problems with the Win 7 under KVM virtualization under 
Linux). Or maybe I will want to use Win 7 to play some DRM music or 
videos that Linux can't handle.


If I wipe the Dell-installed Win 7, Dell could possibly decline to 
support my Dell PC with it's wierd install of Windows 7. Even the Dell 
hardware warranty could be dishonoured.


If I can't get the white box vendor's ironclad assurance of hardware 
compatibility with Linux, I could wind up stuck with a PC I can't use. I 
agree it's a small risk. But the advent of "secure boot" and UEFI make 
me nervous, I understand that these are not yet supported under Linux.


So my compromise is to specify precisely the components I want (having 
carefully researched their compatibility with Linux) and then decide how 
to get the PC built from those components.



Russe

Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Thanks to GTALUG Members,

for the last series of emails I fetched on this thread.

Many useful ideas and much interesting info. Copious snippets have been 
carefully collected into a text file.

* * *
* * *

I have reviewed the quotation I received from NCIX, and can report:

1. Contrary to my earlier assertion, NCIX in fact has included an item for:
   Microsoft Windows 7 Professional Edition 64Bit DVD SP1 OEM
   Price C$187.99 [Reg. C$214.98]

2. And the the (now corrected) NCIX total price for hardware components alone, 
seems reasonable:
   NCIX: $1593.13   PCPartPicker: $1517.98
   Caution: NCIX has made some hardware substitutions, so the total prices are 
only generically comparable.

I compared the sum of component prices, NCIX versus PCPartPicker, and NCIX is 
acceptably close to PCPartPicker.

Here is a summary of the component price comparison (all prices $C):
  -   NCIX*   PC PartPicker**
  -   -
  CPU$269.99$249.25
  CPU Cooler  $92.98 $79.95
  Motherboard$289.99$228.98
  Memory  $44.99 $75.98
  -
  Case   $144.99$129.99
  Power Supply   $214.98$159.99
  -
  Solid State Drive  $135.70$156.99
  Hard Drive  $67.99 $81.95
  Optical Drive   $92.98 $86.98
  -
  Video Monitor  $167.98$167.92
  Keyboard$15.98 $40.00
  Mouse  (incl.) $10.00
  -
  Dialup Modem$54.58 $50.00
  -
  -
   
  TOTAL1:   $1593.13   $1517.98
  -
  -

  MS Windows 7   $187.99
  Assemble & Test $49.98
  Environ. Fees   $16.65
  -
  - 
   
  TOTAL2:   $1897.73
  -
  -
Not an inexpensive PC. And not a souped-up gamer's PC. But one that I believe 
will run plenty fast and stay cool under 24/7 duty. With lots of expansion 
capacity for additional hardware, that will not stress the power supply or the 
cooling apparatus.

My plan now is to revise the Linux PC specification, taking into account the 
avalanche of advice I have received from GTALUG members. (e.g. increase RAM to 
16 GB from 8, drop the dial-up modem and source later, change HDD to Western 
Digital Black, etc.) 

Then I will ask NCIX for a revised quotation, confirm with NCIX a number of 
picky details (e.g. is the WIndows 7 DVD SP1 OEM at the latest SP level?, etc.) 
and get NCIX agreement on technical details of HDD partitioning (GPT) and boot 
setup (multi-boot, with Windows 7 installed; ready for a Linux (debian 8) 
drop-in installation.

* * *
* * *

I'm probably not going to be able respond to many more individual posts to this 
thread, but I will read any that follow with interest.

Will report back, upon conclusion of my negotiations with NCIX. The self-build 
option for the new Linux PC remains open, should NCIX be unable to satisfy the 
requirements.

Many thanks again to GTALUG !!

Best Regards,

Steve

* * *


Steve Petrie, P.Eng.

ITS-ETO Consortium
Oakville, Ontario, Canada
(905) 847-3253
apet...@aspetrie.net
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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Russell,

Thanks for your response.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Russell Reiter" <rreite...@gmail.com>
To: "GTALUG Talk" <talk@gtalug.org>; "D. Hugh Redelmeier" 
<h...@mimosa.com>

Cc: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." <apet...@aspetrie.net>
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 8:32 AM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP 
PC;



On Jul 26, 2016 9:27 PM, "D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk" 
<talk@gtalug.org>

wrote:


| From: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" <talk@gtalug.org>

| I don't really have a few weeks to spare. I need to get the Linux 
PC up

| and running, so I can get back to the rest of my life.




Just to amplify what Len said:

- external serial modems are very standard and well-supported


I believe as a general rule of thumb any Hayes compatable modem will 
work

with Linux. I've not tested this tho.



I'll keep this in mind.





I tinkered with GSM tethering. I did an install with the phone 
tethered and
linux found the phones modem and created the proper serial nodes at 
the
time. On reboot, I had to fool around with usb modeswitching from 
storage

to modem using a udev rule.


My head is spinning.

Given that I'm still using dial-up on my current Windows XP system, no 
one will be surprised to learn that I carry no mobile and hope to make 
it all the way to my conference with the "Grim Reaper" and never, ever 
walk around with some oligarchic comms carrier knowing where I am.






- avoid "WinModems".  Those require proprietary drivers.  Some have






If you don't have a broadband internet connection, all sorts of 
things

that I don't notice might become problems.  Like updates.


I updated the unit I referred to above using the phones modem for 
about a

year. Even when I went over my Data plan (6gb high  speed the rest
throttled to 30kbs) I had no problems. I could even watch YouTube as 
long

as I used low res and preloaded for a couple of minutes.



Interesting. And encouraging. Maybe I can hold out a while longer, and 
keep using dial-up with the new Linux PC, postponing the extra expense 
of DSL versus dial-up. I pay today $15 / mo. (+taxes) for dial-up 
access. My ISP (Start.ca) wants $40 / mo. (plus taxes) for 5 Mbs DSL 
service.






Good luck and have fun.
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Sent from mobile.



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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Hugh,

Thanks for your response.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "D. Hugh Redelmeier" <h...@mimosa.com>

To: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." <apet...@aspetrie.net>; "GTALUG Talk"
<talk@gtalug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP
PC;



| From: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" <talk@gtalug.org>

| I donlt really have a few weeks to spare. I need to get the Linux PC
up
| and running, so I can get back to the rest of my life.

If you are not used to Linux, and you are used to Windows XP, and you
don't have weeks to spare, you really should think carefully about
switching to Linux.



Sorry for causing the confusion.

There is actually no hard deadline date when my Windows XP system goes
offline. I have the "luxury" of keeping the Win XP system running for as
long asI like. Until it dies from a major hardware failure, and it will
die eventually. The Dell WIn XP system is already 12 years old, and Win
XP is way too obsolete and too insecure now.

So my motivation for getting the new Linux PC up and running now, is
that it's going to be way easier to port files from a functional Win XP
system to a new Linux PC, than it will be to struggle to get the Win XP
stuff from a dead Win XP system.


If you have a bunch of applications that you are used to, you may well
find the Linux substitutes unsatisfactory.  After all, you have likely
invested a bunch of time in learning the old programs.



Good point. You have inspired me to make a list.

The two main applications I use are email (Outlook Express) and web
browsing (Firefox, Comodo Dragon).

The first big porting task will be to convert my Outlook Express mail
folders (2.38 GB) to Thunderbird on Linux. And then start using the
Linux PC for my email.

I hope I can find satisfactory open source software for the porting
task. If not, I'm thinking of writing my own export & import utilities
(or paying someone else to write them), using the standard
Microsoft-provided API on Win XP for access to OE mail folders.

The absolutely vital objective is to get a 100% reliable dump of all the
OE mail folders exported into an equivalent Win XP directory structure
containing *.eml files. With rock-solid byte counts and checksuming.
This will provide a very open and accessible version of all my email
history, that faithfully replicates the OE mail folder structure. Copy
this export over to the Linux PC, import it into Thunderbird, and then
run an independent audit check of the Thundrbird mail folders, of the
byte counts and checksumming (if feasible). Call me paranoid.

Web browsing -- I understand that there are some really great web
browsers for Linux, that will make me weep with joy, as compared with my
Firefox experience under Win XP (even allowing tor my slow dial-up
Internet link).

Other apps -- although I have accumulated a vast quantity of different
applications on the Win XP system, most of them are unused.

Mainly I need:

-- a replacement for Word and Excel in Windows Office 2003 (!!), I've
already switched to using Open Office (Writer, Calc, Impress) on my Win
XP system (Open Office Impress in particular, hugely "impresses" me by
producing presentations that are rock-solid compatible with MS
PowerPoint . The OO apps are not as slick as MS Office apps, but they
are sufficiently useable for my purposes, that my "inner rebel" can cope
with any rough edges, for the pleasure of not paying Microsoft for an
Office upgrade.

-- C / C++ compilers (available on Linux);

-- PostgreSQL (available on Linux);

-- HTTP server for website development (PHP, HTML, SQL) I'm using Apache
HTTP server on Win XP. I'm planning to use Nginx (available on Linux) on
the production Linux server (in the cloud), so I will install Nginx on
the new Linux PC.

-- ftp client, tty client, ssl client, vnc client (should all be
available on Linux);

-- OpenSCAD solid modelling tool www.openscad.org (available on Linux);


You may even have important data in a proprietary format, tied to a
program that isn't available on Linux.



I do have many MS Office documents, that I occasionally need to
reference. But I do not need to convert them all in some massive swoop.


Switching environments is often a challenge and a learning experience.
It is a bit risky to do it in a rush.



Good advice -- be assured -- I do not underestimate the challenges
involved. Fortunately for me, I am a "retired" softeare engineer.

Hope I clarified above -- there really is no "rush" at all. Except for
the fact that an older-type guy like me, is running out of life
expectancy :)

The only real rush is getting the Win 7 (OEM). Because I believe that
Microsoft has announced that Win 7 will not be available after (1? /
31?) October 2016. I want Win 7 for its support for Win XP
compatibility. Win 7 will

Re: [GTALUG] GTALUG - BUILDING DEBIAN 8 PC TO REPLACE WIN XP PC

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Stan,

Thanks for your response.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Stan Witkowski" 

To: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." 
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2016 12:02 AM
Subject: GTALUG - BUILDING DEBIAN 8 PC TO REPLACE WIN XP PC





I suggest:







2. Unless you have a specific need (MUST HAVE backup for stock market
trading, for example),
   don't install a dial-up modem.  Why?   (Everything is Internet
based...)



Mainly because I use dial-upon the Win XP system, and I don't want the
hassle of changing it to use DSL, before I get the new Linux PC. Also,
I'm curious to see if the experience with dial-up is better on Linux
than on Win XP.

I do plan, after the Linux PC is operational, to switch to DSL.


3. Install as much RAM as you can afford.  (This also allows the use
of a ramdisk,
   which can give you VASTLY faster access.)
   Personally I would not build a system with under 16 GB RAM, and
better, 32 GB.



Others have mentioned this too. Makes good sense.

I will change the spec to 16 GB and assure expandability to 32 GB.



re:
Hard Drive Western Digital Caviar Blue Internal Hard Drive
   750GB 3.5" 7200RPM 6Gb/s SATA 64MB cache;

IMPORTANT:  I used Western Digital Green drives (and now their
replacement, the Blue)
ONLY AS BACKUP DRIVES!!!  These are   "environmentally
friendly",
meaning they will spin down down after a short interval
(2 - 3 minutes)
if there is no access to them, to save on electricity.
THIS IS BAD IN A WORKING SYSTEM!!!

They are perfect as external **ARCHIVE** drives (you write
a bunch of stuff
to them for archival use once an hour, say), but as daily
use drives
they can be a disaster.

Example: The drive is written to, and spins down.  A few
minutes later
 it is accessed again, and so spins up.
 Down/up/down/up.

Better: Western Digital Black drives = more expensize, but also
tougher, etc.



Advice worth it's wait in gold !!

I'll look at the Western Digital Black drives.


Stan.

(I'm moving in a week and hence am surrounded by packing and chaos
, so any
 replies may be spotty...)



I saw no "spots" ...

Please accept my extra thanks for taking time out from your move, to
advise me.



(I'll follow your progress - may go the same or similar route at some
point later.)



Stay tuned ...

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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Russell,

Thanks for your response.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Russell Reiter" <rreite...@gmail.com>

To: "GTALUG Talk" <talk@gtalug.org>; "Steve Petrie, P.Eng."
<apet...@aspetrie.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP
PC;



On Jul 26, 2016 9:39 AM, "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk"
<talk@gtalug.org>
wrote:


Hello Russel,






I get nervous when I read "standoofs, odd screws, little odds and
ends"


That's OK as Lennart pointed out name brand stuff usually comes
complete
with the necessary parts.

However in twenty five years of tinkering and a couple of hundred
builds,


Just curious -- did you build those "couple of hundred builds" all for
personal use?


I've learned to plan for my own fumbling fingers and trying to mix and
match from different supply streams.



It's the "fumbling fingers" and "mix and match" that makes me inclined
to use a commercial builder.

However, I received (26 July 2016) a very disappointing quotation from
NCIX. Hugely expensive, with substitutions (and omissions). So be
assured, I am still open to building myself.


...

Hacklab -- I remember vaguely reading about them. Thanks for the
reminder.


I brought them up because GTALUG doesn't have a particular place of
their
own. I checked the Hacklab website and it looks like the list
administrators have their monthly meeting at that location.



Yes, I suspected that GTALUG has no permanent space, so the idea of a
GTALUG-provided system building "clinic" for WinXP "orphans" would be
impractical.


Also FYI Tuesdays after 6pm is the open house.

https://hacklab.to/



I looked at the website -- amazing !! Reminds me of my 1960s "hippie
commune" days. Only Hacklab seems much more grown-up and productive of
real results, than us incredibly naive "sex, drugs & rock'n'roll" hippie
types were ...

One issue with Hacklab is logistics -- I own no car (transit & walking
since 2004) and no longer have a valid driver's license (no car
rentals). I live in Oakville, so after I order and accumulate all the
parts at my apartment, I would need to get them (and myself) to Hacklab
without paying an outrageous taxicab fare. Oh, but there's that
new-fangled thing called Uber ...

Ideally, for operational flexibility, it would be good to have use of
some small temporary secure storage space at Hacklab. I'll check this
out if I decide to build the Linux PC myself.



If I do decide to build the new Linux PC myself, I will check out
Hacklab. And find my "build buddy(ies)" on GTALUG :)


I live close to that location so if it is just unfamiliarity with the
build
process and it can be done there, I'd be happy to lend a hand at some
point.



Really appreciate your generous offer.

If I decide to build the Linux PC myelf at Hacklab, I will contact you
offline.





HTH
Russell





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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Lennart,

Thanks for your response.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Lennart Sorensen via talk" 

To: "Loui Chang" 
Cc: "GTALUG Talk" 
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP 
PC;




On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 10:05:18PM -0400, Loui Chang wrote:

Perhaps for a modest price?
http://www.linuxant.com/drivers/


I don't think that supports the USR5638.

I remember the modems those drivers support.

Multitech has a PCIe modem that should work with linux, but it is
over $200.



Too expensive for me.


Of course an external real serial modem is often more likely to work
with linux.  An external USB modem might work.



Right -- the good old RS-232 serial port.

A fallback solution if I can't find a PCIe modem that works.


--
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Lennart,

Thanks for your response.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Lennart Sorensen" <lsore...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

To: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." <apet...@aspetrie.net>; "GTALUG Talk"
<talk@gtalug.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP
PC;



On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 09:39:25AM -0400, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via
talk wrote:

I get nervous when I read "standoofs, odd screws, little odds and
ends"


In my experience, any case you buy should come with those.  Maybe I
have never had a problem with that because I buy name brand cases.
For all I know the $20 cases don't include those.



The beautiful Fractal Design Define R5 (Black) case I have specified, is
definitely brand name.

If I decide to build the Linux PC myself, before ordering I will confirm
that the Fractal Design case comes with the "odds and ends".


--
Len Sorensen


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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Russell,

Thanks for your response.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "Russell Reiter" <rreite...@gmail.com>

To: "GTALUG Talk" <talk@gtalug.org>; "Steve Petrie, P.Eng."
<apet...@aspetrie.net>
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP
PC;



Sent from mobile.

On Jul 26, 2016 9:41 AM, "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk"
<talk@gtalug.org>
wrote:


Hello Loui,


Thanks for your response.



Perhaps for a modest price?
http://www.linuxant.com/drivers/
---



I took a quick look at the site.

Looks like an interesting possibility.


The hylafax site has a good list of Linux comparable modems.

http://www.hylafax.org/site1/modems.html



Brilliant !!

From what I see at the site, this product looks very promising for my
use:

-- "HylaFAX is a telecommunication system for UNIX systems. It supports:
... transparent shared data use of the modem" which is exactly what I'm
looking for (data use);

-- "WHICH MODEMS CAN BE USED WITH HYLAFAX" the compatibility table shows
some USRobotics (now 3Com) modems, but none are recommended, so I will
look to buy a recommended modem instead;

-- "Download ... HylaFAX is freely available under copyright in complete
source form. ... Various binary packages are available for HylaFAX. They
are currently available in two places";





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Sent from mobile.



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Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Hello Dee,

Thanks for your response.

My comments are inline below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
From: "o1bigtenor" <o1bigte...@gmail.com>

To: "Steve Petrie, P.Eng." <apet...@aspetrie.net>; "GTALUG Talk"
<talk@gtalug.org>
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2016 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP
PC;



On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:47 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk
<talk@gtalug.org> wrote:

Warm Greetings To GTALUG,
BACKGROUND --  BUILDING DEBIAN 8 PC TO REPLACE WIN XP PC

I'm working to replace an old Dell Windows XP SP3 PC with a new PC,
booting
Debian Linux 8 as the primary OS, with Win 7 set up to run under QEMU
/ KVM
vbirtualization under Debian. A multi-boot setup will allow booting
Windows
7 (OEM) on bare metal, if required for occasional use.  I definitely
am NOT
going to use MS Windows as the primary OS in my new desktop PC !!

I have almost no Linux / Unix experience. Some years ago doing
application
programming on IBM AIX / Korn shell and now for personal and business
uses,
getting into Debian Linux (and DragonFlyBSD) on cloud-hosted QEMU /
KVM
virtualization servers. However I do have a strong IT background.
(I'm a
"retired" software engineer).



I haven't run the QEMU/KVM VM setup you are talking about but I have
run
Oracle's VirtualBox VM setup. Not an expert by any stretch but have
found some
holes and some good things in VirtualBox (called VBox sometimes).
Would suggest
that you look into it for an idea. I have a Win7 iteration with it
having no network
connection or one might call it in an electronic jail.


Interesting about VirtualBox -- I like the idea of no network connection
for the virtualized Win7

Might help block Microsoft from trying to do a sneaky "upgrade" of the
Win 7 to Win 10.

This outrageous Microsoft arrogance (sneaky "upgrades") is another
reason why I am looking with great relief, to moving to the world of
Linux.

snip


-
-
CPUIntel 4-Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Processor, 64-bit, 6
MB
cache, max 32 GB RAM, HD graphics;
CPU Cooler Noctua NH-U12S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler, height w/fan
158mm,
clears RAM & PCIe, PWM control;
MotherboardASRock Z97 EXTREME6 ATX LGA1150 Mainboard, PCIe:
2x
3.0x16, 1x 2.0x16, 2x 2.0x1, 1x mini,
 Ultra M.2 Gen3 8Gb/s x4 (uses 4x PCIe 3.0 CPU
socket
lanes), extra large heat sinks;
Memory Crucial Ballistix Tactical Tracer 8GB (2x4GB)
DDR3-1600
RAM, 1.35 volt, timings 8-8-8-24;


would suggest going up a notch to 12 or better 16 GB of RAM - - - with
running
VMs RAM is a useful commodity!!


Good advice. Will likely take it.


-
Case   Fractal Design Define R5 (Black) ATX Mid Tower
Case,
3-speed fan control (max 3 fans),
 bays: fan 9, drive: 2x5.25", 8x3.5", 2xSSD, CPU
cooler
height max 180mm, 2 dust filters;
Power Supply   EVGA SuperNOVA P2 850W 80+ Platinum Certified
Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply;
-
Solid State Drive  Samsung SM951 128GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive,
AHCI PCIe
Gen3 8Gb/s x4, 256 MB cache,
 P/N MZHPV128HDGM;
Hard Drive Western Digital Caviar Blue Internal Hard Drive
750GB
3.5" 7200RPM 6Gb/s SATA 64MB cache;


Would suggest going larger on this as it would only be a few dollars
to go to
1 TB and not that much more to go to 2 TB. The sweet spot for hard
drives
IIRC is right around 3 TB (minimum cost per unit storage per dollar)



Good advice and I will likely take it.


Optical Drive  LG WH16NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer, SATA, 2/3/4
layers
(128GB), 4MB data buffer;
-
Video Monitor  LG 22MB35DM-I 21.5" Monitor Full HD 1080p
1920x1080 IPS
LED Back-lit, DVI-D, D-Sub,
 contrast ratios: (static 1,000:1), (dynamic
5M:1),
reader mode, flicker-safe;


Would suggest running 2 of these - - - you'd find yourself wondering
how you
had done without before! (I'm running 4 (24") and wish I had the money
to add
the 5th!)



I envy you for your two big video monitors :)

Maybe if I win the lottery ...


Keyboard   Dell SK-8110 PS/2 Keyboard, PS/2 Interface, Black,
DP/N
07N242, 104 keys,
 cable with purple 6 pin mini-DIN male (PS/2
STYLE)
connector;


Have you ever considered an ergonomic keyboard?
Love mine and it makes typing fast much easier on the hands!!



I admit the Dell keyboard is absolutely barebones. I like it for the
PS/2 interface, which my Linux research indicates is the most robust
choice for down-and-dirty boot-time issues.

However, I will take your advice and reconsider.

snip


Dialup Modem   US Robotics USR5638 56K* V.92, internal dial-up
faxmodem
card,
 (PCIe) PCI Express x1;


Not sure how well this will work in a *nix system - - - would need to
verify that
drivers are available!!!



Point wel

[GTALUG] Advice -- Building Debian 8 PC To Replace Win XP PC;

[Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk]

Warm Greetings To GTALUG,

Please forgive the long email. -- have to provide some background.

BACKGROUND --  BUILDING DEBIAN 8 PC TO REPLACE WIN XP PC

I'm working to replace an old Dell Windows XP SP3 PC with a new PC, booting 
Debian Linux 8 as the primary OS, with Win 7 set up to run under QEMU / KVM 
vbirtualization under Debian. A multi-boot setup will allow booting Windows 7 
(OEM) on bare metal, if required for occasional use.  I definitely am NOT going 
to use MS Windows as the primary OS in my new desktop PC !!

I have almost no Linux / Unix experience. Some years ago doing application 
programming on IBM AIX / Korn shell and now for personal and business uses, 
getting into Debian Linux (and DragonFlyBSD) on cloud-hosted QEMU / KVM 
virtualization servers. However I do have a strong IT background. (I'm a 
"retired" software engineer).

On 7 January 2016 I sent an inquiry email to h...@gtalug.org and Myles 
Braithwaite responded instantly with helpfull suggestions for which I was very 
grateful. Myles also encouraged to join the talk@gtalug.org mailing list and so 
now here I am.

I'm looking for advice from GTALUG members on two issues:

1. Comments on my proposed PC configuration. I have already researched 
components and developed a detailed hardware configuration for the new PC. 
Please see below. This configuration is not yet published on ca.partpicker.com.

2. Advice on how to get the PC built from components, that I will purchase 
retail and supply to the builder. Here, one option I propose is for a 
"creative" solution from GTALUG (see point 3, next section).

* * *
* * *

HOW TO BUILD THE NEW DEBIAN 8 PC ?

It seems to me that there are three approaches I could take, to get this new PC 
built:

1. BUILD IT MYSELF. I can handle purchasing all the components. However, 
although I am comfortable messing around inside the case of a computer, I've 
never build one from components. I would prefer to have the PC assembled by 
more experienced hands that have the skills and use of the right tools. So 
building myself is a last resort.

2. USE A COMMERCIAL PC SYSTEM BUILDER. Any suggestions from mailing list 
participants, on commercial PC builders would be gratefully received. However, 
I do not want to have to deal with import hassles, so the builder must be 
operating in Canada.(preferably in the GTA)

Problem: It seems it will be difficult to interest commercial PC bulders in 
Canada to supply a competitively-priced PC configured with Linux. So if I use a 
commercial builder, the plan would be to get the PC built and delivered with 
with Windows 7 only installed, but have a multi-boot setup. After I get the PC 
I will install Debian 8 Linux as the primary host operating system, and then 
install Win 7 to run under QEMU / KVM virtualization under Debian.

3. *** CREATIVE IDEA FOR GTALUG *** Perhaps there is a member (or members) of 
GTALUG who would be able to build the PC from comnponents I supply. Naturally I 
would be happy to pay a fee for this service Or (and this would be my 
preference) perhaps GTALUG would be interested in taking on the buuild project 
as a club project. I expect I would be much more happy to pay money to GTALUG 
for helping with the build, and to get the pleasure of working with GTALUG, 
than I would be paying and dealing with a commercial builder. Since I live in 
Oakville in a small apartment, it would make more sense for the build to happen 
in Toronto.

>From my casual research, there are many Win XP "orphans" like me out  there. 
>Not only older-type people stuck on Win XP and wondering what to do before 
>their old PC dies. But also there are plenty of small  businesses still 
>running XP (in fact there are probably more small business XP  users left, 
>than consumer XP users).

You could consider me in a sense, a "poster senior" for a class of people, 
among whom some could possibly go the Linux route as they migrate away from Win 
XP. If only these poster seniors (or small business Win XP "orphans") had a 
helping hand from e.g. GTALUG. For example, run a kind of GTALUG "clinic" that 
Win XP "orphans" could come to (for a fee) and there work with GTALUG members 
to get their Linux PC built. And later get their data (e.g. emails) converted 
over to e.g. Thunderbird.

Just a thought,  for a way that GTALUG could get more involved with the wider 
community. And perhaps also pull in some club revenue to support GTALUG 
initiatives. Perhsps this is an idea the GTALUG Board could consider. I am 
happy to discuss the idea of being the "guinea pig" for such a project.

* * *
* * *

PROPOSED PC CONFIGURATION

Thsi is decidedly NOT a gamer's PC. It is intended to be an ultra-reliable, 
powerful, fast professional / small business workstation . There is no 
overclocking. There are no add-in graphics cards. It uses established CPU 
technology now being price-discounted because of the introduction of new CPU 
technology.

  -
  -
  CPU