Re: [GTALUG] Windows in Boxes was Re: preliminary adventures with RDP / Remmina / Flatpak

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sat, Mar 2, 2024 at 6:10 PM Michael Hill via talk 
wrote:

> So The Day Job has required that I upgrade to Windows 11 in order to
> RDP because Windows 10 isn't secure. I purchased an upgrade license
> from my installed Windows 10, secure in the belief that  one of the
> strategies in this Tom's Hardware article would allow me to circumvent
> the TPM requirement (it didn't).
>
>
You mean to say that there actually 'has' been a version of M$ Win that was
secure?

Would love to know!

TIA
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Re: [GTALUG] war story: Brother printer won't turn on

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sat, Jan 20, 2024 at 11:26 AM Don Tai via talk  wrote:
>
> "I'd like to say that soldering is a basic life-skill, but it isn't. " I 
> think it is.
>
> If you do any kind of electronics repair or hacking, then you must know how 
> to solder. It isn't difficult. You just need practice. Tutorials abound on 
> YT. Knowing how to use a multimeter is also an essential life skill. Without 
> these fundamental skills you must trash equipment that somehow went awry and 
> buy another one. This is similar to mending your clothing. You can just pitch 
> the clothing and buy new, or buy better quality and learn to mend what you 
> have. The choice is yours.
>
> With the quality of product dropping as time passes, there is more of a need 
> to repair older but better quality products (computer tech excluded) than to 
> simply buy new. Learn how to solder and sew yourself, find someone that 
> knows, or pay someone to do it for you.
>

Hm - - - - you pretty much  put your age in neon with a comment
like that - - - lol.
Not that I disagree in fact.

The ethos has evolved to where from about 15 to 20 years ago it is now
considered
ethically imperative to discard and buy new on a very very regular basis.
Someone has to be spending money quite regularly to make all those nice salaries
that mid and upper management from most large companiesand the increase the
wealth of the financial elite. Heaven forfend if the financial elite's
net worth isn't increasing
by at least 15% per annum!

HTH
(tongue firmly in cheek)
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Re: [GTALUG] "AI" on getting correct technical answers

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Jan 16, 2024 at 4:23 PM Kevin Cozens via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2024-01-15 18:15, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> > In rural Canada (more accurately in rural Manitoba) - - - that this is
> > surprising
> > is actually quite astounding to me. Service is this bad in significant
> > amounts of
> > rural Canada. So bad in fact that emergency responders (flooding/forest 
> > fires)
> > have refused to assist in certain areas. "The safety of their personnel 
> > would be
> > compromised was the response." Not much concern for those living there.
> That seems ridiculous. First responders should not be relying on use of a
> cell phone. They always(?) have radios. If the problem is that bad they
> should be using sat phones instead of regular cell phones.
>
>
If I can find the specific groups that were involved at that time - -
- - are you willing
to inform them of that?

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] "AI" on getting correct technical answers

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 2:46 PM Alvin Starr via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2024-01-15 13:53, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> [snip]
>
> FWIW, much of my most important supplemental authentication -- including a 
> number of government accounts -- is done through an authenticator app which 
> does not rely on SMS.
>
> Well some authenticator apps may only run on phones but not all of them.
> a number have standalone workstation versions.

Had not heard of such to date - - - thank you.
>
> So there is no need for a cell phone at all.
>
> Of course if you have lost control of your workstation or your phone then 
> your authenticator app is compromised.

Of course!
>
>
>
> Hmm - - - you're still using a stupid phone - - - - - lets say
> your stupid phone service died and you would not be able to
> replace said service for 60 days - - - what would you do then?
>
> Use your workstation.
>
> It doesn't seem like you're getting the extent of the issue - - -
> you're offerring solutions that just don't work if one
> doesn't have access to cellphone service.
>
> The solutions work but it may require a slight compromise on your end.

Compromise being?
>
> I have one - - - use it when I go into town - - - - otherwise - - -
> imo - - - - its a stupidly expensive
> (and quite useless here) communication device - - - - and not much else.
>
> Where do you live that the service is so bad?
>
In rural Canada (more accurately in rural Manitoba) - - - that this is
surprising
is actually quite astounding to me. Service is this bad in significant
amounts of
rural Canada. So bad in fact that emergency responders (flooding/forest fires)
have refused to assist in certain areas. "The safety of their personnel would be
compromised was the response." Not much concern for those living there.
Lived in one are where you had to drive some 30 odd km to get to the closest
point where you just might get a cell phone signal - - - that's when
its really bad.
Here I could walk north of the yard a couple hundred meters and I would get a
poor signal  - - - still tough to use with my desktop - - - yes?

Thanks for the info!

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] "AI" on getting correct technical answers

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 1:08 PM Alex Kink  wrote:
>
> Not trying to be a smartypants. Genuinely curious regarding the following:
>
> Sending a secure email to my secure email account would be a start.
>
>
> What is the definition of secure email or secure email account in the above 
> sentence?

Have an account at proton - - - one of the services where they seem to
actually try
to not track one.
A secure email would, by my definition, not have any links in the originating
website from the quadrivium (you know X (was twitter I think), crackbook,
mz googly and can't remember the fourth but my bank is quite proud to
display that
its totally cool and is totally connected so I see them when I do my banking!
(Not all the time but imo that they're connected anytime is bad!)
>
> Except the preferrence is to gmail - - - to feed the advertising
> engine you know!
>
>
> Do I understand correctly that you've run into websites that insist on users 
> signing up with a gmail account, or am I understanding this wrong? If so, 
> what are some examples of such services?
>
That's when they're asking me to log in using mz googly's services.
Man - - - - there's lots - - - I don't do that but there are plenty that do.

HTH
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Re: [GTALUG] "AI" on getting correct technical answers

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 12:21 PM Alvin Starr via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2024-01-15 11:47, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 8:56 AM Alvin Starr via talk  
> > wrote:
> >> On 2024-01-15 07:35, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> >> [snip]
> >>
> [snip]
> > Was not aware of this. As I'm now on a reasonable IP connection (previously
> > on fixed point wireless which is garbage imo) I am considering using voip
> > if not for everything as voip dies when the power does and that's a serious
> > flaw!
> Bell and Rogers are now both offering VOIP based home phone services.
> I assume that they have batteries to keep things running in the event of
> a power outage but It would be interesting to have someone on list
> confirm that.

Bell reminds me of the company that ordered a 1" mesh steel door for a WWI
submarine in a modern naval battle.
Rogers is possibly worse - - - its only about their profit and not much else!


> I remember many years ago working with an ISDN ATA device from Bell that
> had NiCad batteries that did not last all that long and had real
> degradation problems.
>
> You could fix the power issue with a UPS.

Likely if the power outages were short - - - ie under 4 hours. For the 40 hour
ones - - - not so good - - - we had one of those in 22 I think it was.
That was uproariously funny when the power company was posting bulletins
to their website for information - - - and no power to get any of that - - -
enormously amusing the absolute stupidity of the thinking (what there was
of it!).

> You could likely pay for the UPS in the phone line savings in the first
> year.
>
Going off grid is looking more and more attractive! (grin!)
>
>
> >> Multi-factor authentication via SMS is an improvement in security.
> >> It is not the bee all and end all but it is better than just a password.
> >> So I am not sure about your comment about privacy and security.
> > Hm - - - - it was some time in the first 1/2 of 2012 when a VP at Microsoft
> > issued the announcement that for those that were logging in off campus
> > that it would be thenceforth required to use 2FA (as either SMS or email).
> > It was about 2019 when the federal bureacracy started barking about this
> > and the banking industry (finding another area to look good and possibly
> > generate MORE fees) started complying.
> >
> > What none of these boffins seems to be aware of is that the same individual
> > in early 2019 sent a similar email to the same recipients that " . . .
> > due to the
> > inherent insecurity of both SMS, SMS based and open email systems it would
> > no longer be possible to use such for authentication." (Notice what he
> > said - - -
> Any chance for a link to that?
> I would love to know the inherent insecurity.

I copied what I found into a doc that I have here.
Would have to dig for it - - - do you want it?

> > the inherent INSECURITY blah blah blah) So so many people have
> > heard of the first instance and it seems that the second has been ignored
> > by almost all of those that have read the first. (Except Microsoft 
> > employees - -
> > AIUI they are using a USB token/chip/whatever the official name for the
> > dongle is - - - and that is their reality.)
> > There are options - - - yes but they cost some money - - - - the feds
> > just don't
> > give a rip and the banking industry is loathe to offer such reasonably or
> > (shock and horror) to offer for free so that a secure system 'could' be
> > set up - - - so we're stuck with garbage with platitudes for our privacy and
> > security.
> >
> >> Not sure about all the banks but I know a few will use a phone call that
> >> reads out a number over the phone to be used as a second factor in the
> >> login process.
> > Bank I'm dealing with - - - doesn't.
> That sucks.
> I know RBC and Scotia both support call back MFA.

Stopped dealing with RBC when I saw that I was paying for any deposit on
a small business account. It just doesn't make sense to pay to deposit
something like an under $20 check. RBC isn't about banking - - - its about
making serious $ for its mid and upper level management (and stock owners).

> >
> >> Also not sure about all governments and services but a large chunk of
> >> the Ontario government use call back.
> > Apologies - - - - the world doesn't really begin - - - nor end - - - in
> > Ontario. (Even if the banking industry centered in Toronto bends even
> > our clocks (in the rest of Canada) to suit their 'whatever you want to
> > call it'!
> I don't know what PEI or BC governments are doing so I am not commenting
> on 

Re: [GTALUG] "AI" on getting correct technical answers

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 11:38 AM Evan Leibovitch  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 7:37 AM o1bigtenor via talk  wrote:
>
>> One doesn't use a cell phone (well I wouldn't) but a cellphone number is 
>> demanded to verify one's identity. Without a working cellphone connection 
>> one is today - - - a NON-person.
>
>
> OK, what other ways of verifying identity would you prefer?

Sending a secure email to my secure email account would be a start.
Except the preferrence is to gmail - - - to feed the advertising
engine you know!

> You can still do most of what needs to be done with banks and government 
> through in-person and/or postal service that can be done without connectivity 
> of any kind.

Postal service - - - - what a misd nomer!!!

Post office hours are such so that that would necessitate a special
trip into town. (Gross costs about $35.)
Bank I am dealing with doesn't do in person stuff any more - - - they
might upon special request but as I'm
neither part of the 'elderly' (yet) nor infirm that's also a no go.
>
>> I understand that you don't get the problem but then you are an urban dweller
>
>
> As are more than 80% of Canadians.

Its actually 93% or Canuckistanis - - - which is why its so
frustrating for the other 7% - - - the 93% asks
why should we give a c**p - - - they see no need for the fix.
Except even among urban dwellers there is a rapidly widening
availability of services and the probelm is
increasing rather than diminishing. (Cell phone access is based upon
maximal profit for the providers
not upon providing a service. This has supposedly been an election
issue for just short of some 25 years
here and still no changes - - - just more platitudes!)
>
>> who has absolutely no idea what its like trying to connect to an ever 
>> increasing number of entities that demand SMS connectiviity
>
>
> You're right, I have no idea. I logically assume that if someone wants to 
> "connect" that first they possess a device capable of "connecting".
>
> Please explain why this should not be the case.

Why should this method of 'connecting' be imposed upon those who don't
even have the option to use it?
>
> FWIW, much of my most important supplemental authentication -- including a 
> number of government accounts -- is done through an authenticator app which 
> does not rely on SMS.

Hmm - - - you're still using a stupid phone - - - - - lets say
your stupid phone service died and you would not be able to
replace said service for 60 days - - - what would you do then?

It doesn't seem like you're getting the extent of the issue - - -
you're offerring solutions that just don't work if one
doesn't have access to cellphone service.

I have one - - - use it when I go into town - - - - otherwise - - -
imo - - - - its a stupidly expensive
(and quite useless here) communication device - - - - and not much else.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] "AI" on getting correct technical answers

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 8:56 AM Alvin Starr via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2024-01-15 07:35, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> [snip]
> > One doesn't use a cell phone (well I wouldn't) but a cellphone number
> > is demanded to
> > verify one's identity. Without a working cellphone connection one is
> > today - - - a NON-person.
> >
> > I understand that you don't get the problem but then you are an urban
> > dweller who has
> > absolutely no idea what its like trying to connect to an ever
> > increasing number of entities
> > that demand SMS connectiviity (you know like the banks, the bloody
> > government - - - shall
> > I go on???!!!) all the while prating about maintaining my
> > privacy and security - - -
> > bollocks) - - - this is our contemporary situation. That
> > urban dwellers don't get it
> > is also our contemporary situation. The pity is that they don't even
> > try to understand
> > the enormity of the situation or the helplessness of those caught in
> > the squeeze - - - - .
> You don't need a cell phone number but need to have a number that will
> accept SMS.
> VOIP services offer numbers with SMS features.
>

Was not aware of this. As I'm now on a reasonable IP connection (previously
on fixed point wireless which is garbage imo) I am considering using voip
if not for everything as voip dies when the power does and that's a serious
flaw!

>
> Multi-factor authentication via SMS is an improvement in security.
> It is not the bee all and end all but it is better than just a password.
> So I am not sure about your comment about privacy and security.

Hm - - - - it was some time in the first 1/2 of 2012 when a VP at Microsoft
issued the announcement that for those that were logging in off campus
that it would be thenceforth required to use 2FA (as either SMS or email).
It was about 2019 when the federal bureacracy started barking about this
and the banking industry (finding another area to look good and possibly
generate MORE fees) started complying.

What none of these boffins seems to be aware of is that the same individual
in early 2019 sent a similar email to the same recipients that " . . .
due to the
inherent insecurity of both SMS, SMS based and open email systems it would
no longer be possible to use such for authentication." (Notice what he
said - - -
the inherent INSECURITY blah blah blah) So so many people have
heard of the first instance and it seems that the second has been ignored
by almost all of those that have read the first. (Except Microsoft employees - -
AIUI they are using a USB token/chip/whatever the official name for the
dongle is - - - and that is their reality.)
There are options - - - yes but they cost some money - - - - the feds
just don't
give a rip and the banking industry is loathe to offer such reasonably or
(shock and horror) to offer for free so that a secure system 'could' be
set up - - - so we're stuck with garbage with platitudes for our privacy and
security.

>
> Not sure about all the banks but I know a few will use a phone call that
> reads out a number over the phone to be used as a second factor in the
> login process.

Bank I'm dealing with - - - doesn't.

> Also not sure about all governments and services but a large chunk of
> the Ontario government use call back.

Apologies - - - - the world doesn't really begin - - - nor end - - - in
Ontario. (Even if the banking industry centered in Toronto bends even
our clocks (in the rest of Canada) to suit their 'whatever you want to
call it'!
>
> So far as I know all banks and governments still have phone lines that
> are answered and will eventually get you to a person to help you with
> your issue.


Have tried that when I was required to authenticate to do a credit card
transaction. The ultimate answer - - - sorry - - - - nothing we can do to
help. (I used a credit card with much higher fees that hasn't jumped on
that band wagon yet - - - their problem!)

Given the reaction here it is quite clear that this PROBLEM really hasn't
hit the radar for most of the tech community in Canuckistan (you know
- - - that 3rd world country north of the USA). (Emphasis because I'm
quite tired of the prissy pussy footing that I've gotten in trying to get
even just the community to understand the magnitude of the issue.
(My bank when implementing this garbage 2FA  had ever so many
words about the increase in security and privacy and really didn't want
to talk to me about any of it - - - - because I'm just a dumb knuckle
dragger to them!)

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] "AI" on getting correct technical answers

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Mon, Jan 15, 2024 at 7:14 AM Don Tai  wrote:
>
> The current social assumption made by companies is that all people have a 
> cellphone, all people know how to use them, and all people are almost always 
> connected. This is not the case for much of our society, but from the 
> viewpoint of data architects, developers and tech companies, this is their 
> view.
>

Agreed - - - but how does one get the attention of this technical
elite to notify them that some of their basic
assumptions are just - - - wrong?

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] "AI" on getting correct technical answers

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sun, Jan 14, 2024 at 3:03 PM Evan Leibovitch  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 14, 2024 at 7:20 AM o1bigtenor via talk  wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 14, 2024 at 3:06 AM ac via talk  wrote:
>> >
>> snip
>>
>> > > And, it's just a generic LLM.  I've heard experienced developers
>> > > saying surprisingly positive things about GitHub's Copilot for quite
>> > > a while now.
>> > > As for the SQL issue - all search queries on Qwant / DDG / Google
>> > > lead to "how to join tables in SQL"; utterly useless. I know that
>> > > reasonably well.
>> > > And, who hasn't had a search lead them to StackOverflow where the
>> > > highest rated answer is strongly condemned further in the comments as
>> > > being wrong / out of date / insecure, etc.?
>> > >
>> > Actually, this is an interesting point.
>> >
>> > Google search seems to prioritise answers from humans and human sources.
>> >
>> > I searched on Microsoft the other day and was surprised to see that I
>> > could supply .js snippets (which I did not code and was too lazy to
>> > read through) and receive a correct answer direct from "search"
>> >
>> > So, us humans will be replaced as 'coders" - Machines will be writing
>> > the code which powers machines. Not only is that something for us to
>> > understand fully, but we also have to comprehend where we are all
>> > choosing to go.
>> >
>> > It is like watching episodes of "the Traitors" and seeing how the
>> > majority votes out a faithful.
>> >
>> > there is just nothing to do but be along for the ride :)
>> >
>> > > Lots of incorrect answers supplied by humans.
>> > >
>> > indeed, if only there was some way to 'sort' or use advanced search to
>> > set dates... (to exclude popular answers from 2009) or do more settings
>> > on search options... oh, wait - and then there are no search
>> > results... when is "search" not "search" and just becomes "answer" -
>> > interesting! - it is like a mobile phone - it is hardly even a mobile
>> > phone any longer, why do so many people still call it a 'phone' or a
>> > mobile phone...
>> >
>> > I think though that I will still be using Google for search, although
>> > when looking at it all from my perspective we are all already screwed,
>> > unless we can vote out all of the tratitors. (which seems increasingly
>> > unlikely)
>> >
>> Re: search engines - - - - to me they are totally frustrating.
>>
>> If I'm asking for a search where I want terms  'a + b + c + d + e' well -
>> I'm looking for where ALL 5 terms show up. Not where any one term is or
>> any two (etc etc). So if one is looking for very generic kind of items - -
>> well search is useful - - - if you're looking for the specific - - - - search
>> - - - well - - its quite useless!
>>
>> (tried to sign up for chatgpt but as I'm unable to use a cellphone at my 
>> location that's a no for even signup (and no way to reach the idiots - - - - 
>> sorry I guess I should use people but I wonder - - to let them know that I 
>> can't because its only after registration that connection is allowed - - - 
>> total circular logic that is!)
>
>
> I'm having a hard time parsing this.
>
> I have never used a cellphone to access https://chat.openai.com -- this is 
> where I signed up for free and later where I upgraded to Plus. The process to 
> register is quite easy, I don't quite understand the issues you and Kevin are 
> having.
>
One doesn't use a cell phone (well I wouldn't) but a cellphone number
is demanded to
verify one's identity. Without a working cellphone connection one is
today - - - a NON-person.

I understand that you don't get the problem but then you are an urban
dweller who has
absolutely no idea what its like trying to connect to an ever
increasing number of entities
that demand SMS connectiviity (you know like the banks, the bloody
government - - - shall
I go on???!!!) all the while prating about maintaining my
privacy and security - - -
bollocks) - - - this is our contemporary situation. That
urban dwellers don't get it
is also our contemporary situation. The pity is that they don't even
try to understand
the enormity of the situation or the helplessness of those caught in
the squeeze - - - - .
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Re: [GTALUG] "AI" on getting correct technical answers

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sun, Jan 14, 2024 at 3:06 AM ac via talk  wrote:
>
snip

> > And, it's just a generic LLM.  I've heard experienced developers
> > saying surprisingly positive things about GitHub's Copilot for quite
> > a while now.
> > As for the SQL issue - all search queries on Qwant / DDG / Google
> > lead to "how to join tables in SQL"; utterly useless. I know that
> > reasonably well.
> > And, who hasn't had a search lead them to StackOverflow where the
> > highest rated answer is strongly condemned further in the comments as
> > being wrong / out of date / insecure, etc.?
> >
> Actually, this is an interesting point.
>
> Google search seems to prioritise answers from humans and human sources.
>
> I searched on Microsoft the other day and was surprised to see that I
> could supply .js snippets (which I did not code and was too lazy to
> read through) and receive a correct answer direct from "search"
>
> So, us humans will be replaced as 'coders" - Machines will be writing
> the code which powers machines. Not only is that something for us to
> understand fully, but we also have to comprehend where we are all
> choosing to go.
>
> It is like watching episodes of "the Traitors" and seeing how the
> majority votes out a faithful.
>
> there is just nothing to do but be along for the ride :)
>
> > Lots of incorrect answers supplied by humans.
> >
> indeed, if only there was some way to 'sort' or use advanced search to
> set dates... (to exclude popular answers from 2009) or do more settings
> on search options... oh, wait - and then there are no search
> results... when is "search" not "search" and just becomes "answer" -
> interesting! - it is like a mobile phone - it is hardly even a mobile
> phone any longer, why do so many people still call it a 'phone' or a
> mobile phone...
>
> I think though that I will still be using Google for search, although
> when looking at it all from my perspective we are all already screwed,
> unless we can vote out all of the tratitors. (which seems increasingly
> unlikely)
>
Re: search engines - - - - to me they are totally frustrating.

If I'm asking for a search where I want terms  'a + b + c + d + e' well -
I'm looking for where ALL 5 terms show up. Not where any one term is or
any two (etc etc). So if one is looking for very generic kind of items - -
well search is useful - - - if you're looking for the specific - - - - search
- - - well - - its quite useless!

As I've been pondering the AI stuff (tried to sign up for chatgpt but as I'm
unable to use a cellphone at my location that's a no for even signup (and
no way to reach the idiots - - - - sorry I guess I should use people but I
wonder - - to let them know that I can't because its only after registration
that connection is allowed - - - total circular logic that is!) what
I've come up
with is from looking at the past.

Truly innovative and unique ideas/things are rarely enough even designed
or developed by a 'team' (that's changing in advanced materials these days
though) most often its an individual that finds something that the thundering
herd has either ignored or doesn't know about. Somehow to date AI is more
about the thundering herd (and a technique that when fully utilized will allow
major chip makers (and some small group of other hardware vendors) to
really cache in the bucks ('Follow the money' is the adage!). Am wondering
if that is the reason for AI's proliferation?

What say you?

TIA
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Re: [GTALUG] Browsers (and Thorium to be specific)

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Thu, Nov 23, 2023 at 2:56 PM Ron / BCLUG via talk  wrote:
>
> Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote on 2023-11-23 11:38:
>
> > It is pretty annoying that chrome has become the new IE. Lots of web
> > developers only use chrome and don't care that their javascript or html
> > doesn't work on other browsers anymore.
>
> I too find it annoying.
>
> Especially since the standards are so well implemented by all (both) the
> major browsers, and the cutting edge features should gracefully degrade
> but not break the site.
>
>
> Any examples of a site that doesn't work with Firefox?
>
>
> I might give one a try; it's beautiful and sunny outside and I'm not
> just not feeling angry enough.  Need something to fix that.
>
>
Chuckling

I can really empathize!!

I use FF as my main browser it usually seems to work - - - - its the
only browser that
doesn't barf at my using more than 1 virtual desktop (I use a lot!!!).

To get some chromium connection - - - well I have Brave, Vivaldi,
Opera, as well as
Links 2 and Min which I only use sporadically.

I am starting to think of using a non-javascript browser - - - I'm
just so tired of the
bloated number of linked in domains I've found to almost 350 at times - - - now
that's nuts!!!

HTH
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Re: [GTALUG] Linux friendly email providers?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Wed, Nov 22, 2023 at 8:25 PM Karen Lewellen via talk  wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
> let me be more specific..some of you tech wizards run your own mail
> servers laughs.
> for context, although google is removing access to basic html in January,
> they pulled my access to it early..and without warning on Monday.
> So, what I am seeking now is a provider that  can..
>   1, allow me to export all of my gmail content to them.
> 2, either allows for user name / password log in directly with a web
> interface, or where I can ssh into a shell or workspace and find an email
> client, think Alpine for example.
> 3, where I can also send email, in theory once I have all of my gmail
> content, I can set that email to forward without losing access to a great
> deal of personal, professional, and legal files.

Haven't checked lately but in the googleverse (IIRC) its called 'takeout'
where you can download all the stored (or which ones you wish) from their
server.
My registrar (I think that is the correct term) not only offers to takes my
money to keep my domain name(s) alive but also offers email hosting
 namespro.ca . Their pricing and service for domain registration is
excellent dunno their hosting though.

A mentor (gone some time now) recommended using claws email
I haven't run it yet.

HTH
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Re: [GTALUG] (very off topic) torque spec of impact wrench

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Fri, Nov 3, 2023 at 10:03 AM William Park via talk  wrote:
>
> This is what happened after getting 4 new brakes and 2 new calipers at
> the dealership.  They over-tightened it!

This would get me to take it back to said dealer with the instructions
to 'fix it' .

If they refuse there would be some repercussions!
I would escalate the problem through VW channels if necessary.

>
>  - I tried 12in pipe (it's all I have).  It slips, and I don't want
> to step on that.  Maybe longer pipe will work.

I was afraid you would not have something a couple feet long - - argh
Have some specific tools (read pipes/bits of tubing) that are stored as
tools for just this kind of use.

This kind of probelm should be the responsibility of the idiot outfit
that created
the problem not yours.
A good 1/2" air impact fed using a 5/16" id hose that not more than 15' from
the compressor should develop in the range of 450 to 500 + ft#s of
removal torque.
There are models (or at least used to be) that would develop up to 650 ftlbs.
(then the 3/4" was good for circa 800 ft lbs and the 1" (good one) for
up to 100 ftlbs.
That's for big truck and heavy equipment stuff - - - even then sometimes a good
snip with a 12# hammer would crack something that the impact couldn't - - but
those are some extreme measures!)

You could use a 6 or 8# hammer on your bar - - - warning bars can be bent.

HTH
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Re: [GTALUG] (very off topic) torque spec of impact wrench

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Fri, Nov 3, 2023 at 2:07 AM William Park via talk  wrote:
>
> Hi (another very off topic),
>
> Wheel bolts on my VW are seized pretty hard.  Standing on 24in breaker
> bar doesn't help, and that's 300ft-lb torque.  So, I'm thinking about
> getting an impact wrench.  Those with greater than 300ft-lb are very
> expensive.  I found one with 250ft-lb spec at my price range.
>
> Question is, is there difference between static torque vs impact torque?
>   In other words, will 250ft-lb impact wrench loosen 300ft-lb bolt?
>
> Browsing YouTube, I learned that torque specs are always misleading and
> inflated.  This means, I have to find 600ft-lb or greater, and that's
> serious money.
> ---

An easier and far cheaper option - - - - find yourself a 2' long chunk of
pipe or tubing that fits over the breaker bar. (Need to overlap at
least a couple if
not 3 inches.) Place bar combination so it is slightly above horizontal.
STOMP on the end of the sucker (your heel is better than at the instep
especially in softer shoes - - - unless you're wearing decent 'work' boots).
Its the impact that does the trick - - - far more than the weight.
If you're thinking this might be problematic then put the combination (of
bar and pipe) so the motion is upwards and lift up - - - using your legs

(I've bent pipes and bars doing this but most definitely NOT on something
as small as a VW. If you want a word for the pipe (extender) I was taught
to call it a snipe. Have used such to exert as much as 2500 ft#s - - - that was
using some more than a short snipe though!)

HTH
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Re: [GTALUG] (very off topic) where to buy old AM/FM receiver?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 1:37 AM Evan Leibovitch via talk
 wrote:
>
> On Tue, Oct 31, 2023 at 1:31 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk  
> wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't know if this phono pre-amp is any good, but its from an OK brand.
>> It currently costs $29.99.  There is a newer model with two vacuum
>> tubes(!).
>> 
>
>
> I saw that too. You can also pay nearly $1000 for a cartridge alone. The 
> makers of those things clearly know the audio-snob market to whom they're 
> selling.
>
There were cartridges selling for up to $1800 lots of years ago.
The higher the $$$ the lower the down pressure needed and the wider
the operating parameters iirc.
(But that's from the early 80's so   - - - memory is not infallible - - grin!)

HTH
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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi 5 announced (shipping starting near the end of October)

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2023 at 10:39 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
 wrote:
>
> 


For me the huge question would be availability.
If I can only buy them one at a time the freight costs are absolutely
stupid - - -
its one of the reasons I've been working at finding a good alternative.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] looking for a general purpose boot media to keep in case of distasters

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 1:56 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
 wrote:
>
> 1. I use what I'm used to.  That's Fedora.
>
> 2. I don't plan ahead, so I just use the Fedora live installation medium
>
> 3. Your distro is probably as good as Fedora.
>
> 4. Yes, you can install to a USB drive and have that drive function as an
>emergency tool.  But I find that I don't use the emergency tool enough
>to be worth that investment in time.
>
>The main advantage is that you can make changes to the system and they
>persist.
>
> 6. What I miss on the Fedora live installation medium:
>- gparted
>- my private SSH keys
>- my notes files
>
> 7. My Fedora Live Installation stick has lots of free space.
>I've never figured out whether I could add a file-system to
>store persistent state.
>
> 8. There are systems to allow multiple installation images (.iso)
>to live on a single stick.  I haven't tried ventoy.
> ---

I have found "SystemRescueDisc" (IIRC the actual name) to be a
most wonderful tool in this kind of situation.
Included is gparted - - - one would have to add one's own keys and files
though. I first started using this on a CD, think I have a copy on
stick somewhere.
(Should make sure to either find it or create another!)

HTH
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Re: [GTALUG] installing Windows is uselessly worse than installing Linux

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sat, Sep 16, 2023 at 3:13 PM Giles Orr via talk  wrote:
>
> On Fri, 15 Sept 2023 at 14:35, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
>  wrote:
> >
> > [Always do backups before such drastic measures.]
> >
> > The best way to install Windows is to go to another Windows box and use
> > the the Window Media Creation Tool to create a bootable USB stick
> > 
> > Alternatively you could download the WIndows 11 Disk Image.
> >
> > During installation, you have to answer a lot of questions.  It is
> > extremely hard to evade linking the installation with a global Microsoft
> > account (google to learn the ever-evolving tricks).
> >
> > Good news: Windows can let other partitions on the disk remain.  In
> > earlier years, it would just grab the whole disk.
> >
> > Once it is installed, Windows will spend a lot of time installing updates
> > and rebooting.  Installing updates is quite slow (perhaps due to
> > anti-malware software).
> >
> > And it lies about whether there are more updates.  When it says there are
> > none, ask it to look again.
> >
> > You also need to separately run the Microsoft app store app and ask it to
> > do updates.
> >
> > You also need to run you system vendor's update thingee too for some
> > driver and firmware updates.  Even then, it is useful to see what firmware
> > is available on the vendor's web site
> >
> > This whole process involves multipler reboots, each requiring babysitting.
>
> Regular readers of this list may recall that I recently bought a
> mini-mini-computer: the slim instruction manual basically said that if
> you wanted to avoid trouble (which I take to mean "having to connect
> to a global M$ account"), I should boot WITHOUT a network connection.
> Which I did, and it seemed to create a local account without
> hesitation.  At which point I shut the machine down, imaged the drive,
> wiped it, and installed Linux.  Windows might have fought me hard the
> second I booted with a network connection, but that really seems to be
> a great way to win that first fight.  How long they'll leave that door
> open I don't know - I expect Windows 12 to say "I have no network
> connection, therefore this is not a real computer.  Shutting down
> now."
>
AIUI Win 11 does not run on an air gapped system.

(Know someone who is still on Win7 but air gapped.)

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] USB to Ethernet Dongles WAS: Debian Linux as-a-router Guide

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sat, Sep 9, 2023 at 10:20 AM Evan Leibovitch via talk
 wrote:
>
> On Sat, Sep 9, 2023 at 9:56 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk  
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Notebooks are almost supplanting "regular" PCs.
>
>
> IMO we're well beyond the "almost" in that statement.
> COVID led to work-from-home which necessitated laptops for employees in the 
> services sector.
> Even though the COVID threat has reduced, WFH is never going away.
> For typical business use there is no compelling reason for a desktop.

Dunno - - - I would say that I see no compelling reason for a laptop.
Power headaches, tiny monitor space (I have a seriously multi-monitor
system (think 8620 x 3000 pixels almost all of it visible))
unable to use an ergo keyboard - - - - I wonder why anyone would want
to use a laptop (lol)?
>
> But also, for the purpose of this thread, even "regular" PCs are increasingly 
> coming with wifi as an alternative to wired networking. Ditto printing, where 
> only premium units have Ethernet but most have wifi. This makes sense as most 
> homes are well wired for RJ11 POTS service, but few are wired for RJ45. So 
> the usual solution I have seen lately is to blanket even large houses with 
> mesh wifi like the TP-Link Deco line. This seems good enough for most people 
> as even 4K televisions are fine with wifi.

If one is into privacy and security - - - wifi - - - not so hot - - -
sorry! (radio waves are very indiscriminate!)
>
> I was fortunate enough to buy a house from a developer when all that existed 
> at the time of purchase was a sales office and a hectare or two of dirt. So I 
> was able to do custom wiring. Requesting almost every room wired with RJ45 
> was so unusual it took me almost a full afternoon to explain it to the 
> contractor. Then they brought in a commercial team that tried to sell me 
> massively overpriced Ethernet switches. But I ended up happy with the result, 
> though I have no idea if it will affect the house's resale value.

Gret for you but did they use cat 5 or 5e wiring. Today you might need
cat 8 (6 and 7 seems to have been obsoleted - - - dunno).
I would have dragged in conduit then you would be very future proof -
- - with just cable runs you will have to redo every 20 odd years.
>
> I have three USB-to-Ethernet devices. One was supplied by Asus with the 
> laptop. Another is a TP-Link UE300C That is used with other laptops. But the 
> one I use the most is a $21 hub I bought on Aliexpress that also includes an 
> HDMI port, an SD card reader, and some additional USB-A ports. All have 
> worked well under both Windows and Linux (KDE Neon), though I haven't exactly 
> stress-tested them. The hub is fussy about the order of plugging things in 
> but it works.
>

I may have found a unicorn. Label says its a Tripp-Lite (model
U209-006-RJ-45-X) usb to RJ-45 cable made by Eaton.
FreeBSD also gives that baby passing marks - - - -its the one one
there that gets that.

Wasn't cheap though (it was a newegg purchase and shipping was quick).

Might be worth a look if you need such - - - I did/do because buying
used commercial computers
it seems that a second RJ-45 is considered irrelevant although there
might be 4 or 5 USB 3.x
ports. Big business doesn't think long term - - - its for use in the
period of the lease (at most
3 years possibly 4) then the systems are replaced. M$ loves this and I
like getting cheap reasonably
high speced small form factor systems (they help keep my power costs
down and space
considerations lower as well).

HTH
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Re: [GTALUG] Landline and Bell revisited.

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 1:19 PM James Knott via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2023-09-07 13:27, Evan Leibovitch via talk wrote:
>
> Forgive me for insisting that technical curiosity take a back seat to the 
> real-world medical needs of people. But I will insist. This is a real 
> problem, not an experiment nor a business decision.
>
>
> Doesn't Bell have a department for helping people with medical issues?  Seems 
> to me they used to.
>
> Indeed, that is Bell's problem that it MUST solve. If the transition has 
> broken backwards compatibility (to use our lingo), they must fix the 
> breakage. Their current digital-to-analog solution may work for many users 
> (such as my landline) but clearly isn't sufficient for Karen's needs.
>
>
> How do you know it's Bell's problem.  All we know is something changed when 
> she moved.  I defy anyone to listen to a good analog line and compare it to a 
> digital line and tell me what the difference is, other than perhaps better 
> quality audio on the digital line.  You can consider things like level, 
> frequency response, phase shift, noise, distortion and more.  Incidentally, 
> when digital trunks started to be used, people complained they were too 
> quiet!  They were used to all the noise that accompanied analog calls.
>
> BTW, many years ago, I used to measure those things on various circuits, 
> including the CBC radio feed in Northern Ontario.
>
>
We were on a party line a lot later than 1975.
I can hear the difference between a 12 bit AD conversion and a 16 bit one.
(Its the difference between listing to a solo soprano recorder and a
full Wanger or Mahler orchestra.
I remember hearing the discussion between the differences on
instruments and different materials
in their manufacturer (just in case others think I'm totally
crackers!) if you want detail.)
There are are audible differences between CODECS - - - likely few
people can tell the difference.
To most engineers - - - - well - - - the mythical 'average' numbers
get trotted out.
(Something like the average sized human when talking about airplane
seats - - - another pet
peeve of mine.)
I would suggest not being quite so arbitrary on human capabilities.

HTH
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Re: [GTALUG] internet service speed test tip

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 10:06 AM David Mason  wrote:
>
> Speedtest (the app) gives consistent results for a variety of test sites, 
> including UofToronto, Bell Canada, Primus. All are significantly higher 
> numbers than testmy.net (320Down, 450Up versus 190Down, 215Up on testmy.net 
> Toronto site).
>
>
AIUI 'speedtest' is most often optimized by the various vendors to
give 'great looking numbers'.
Testmy.net, imo anyway, seem to be more 'real world numbers.
The graphs of the test I find very very revealing - - - - after a
while one gets a really good idea of the
connection possibilities.

Thanks for sharing
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Re: [GTALUG] internet service speed test tip

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Fri, Aug 25, 2023 at 7:39 AM Alvin Starr via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2023-08-24 10:50, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
> > Rogers and Bell have web sites for testing your internet speed.  The
> > advantage of using one should be that it is a pretty pure test of the
> > ISP's infrastructure.
> >
> I know that Bell has tuned their traffic management rules to prioritize
> speed test sites.
>
> I would be very surprised if Rogers is not also doing the same thing.
>
> The Bell and Rogers hosted sites are the most likely to take advantage
> of traffic management to enhance their stats.
> So you may get results that are close to the maximum that the network
> can support but nowhere near what the network is able to deliver under
> its current load.
>
>
> Network performance testing is best done with tools like iperf.
>
I found a website called testmy.net  that seems to do a very good job.
Gives graphing of the results and shows the variability of connection
quite well imo.

HTH
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Re: [GTALUG] Favorite desktop manager?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 5:07 PM BCLUG via talk  wrote:
>
> o1bigtenor wrote on 2023-07-27 14:23:
>
>  In my view computers should change to suit humans, not the
>  other way around.
> 
> 
> >>> So thankful that I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Is
> >>> there any way to make this louder
> >>
> >> Sounds like you guys hate CLI environments and probably use Siri /
> >> Google Assistant / Alexa / *voice*  as a near ideal human-like
> >> user interface then?
> >
> > Hmm - - - - I remember the advertisements early on in
> > microcomputers - - - - you know - - - - "computing your way"
> > implying that an IT department wasn't going to force you to do things
> > the way they wanted. That was considered a great idea - - - - until
> > those same IT departments - - - - now responsible for fleets of
> > microcomputers - - - well - - - they decided that they're the only
> > ones who understand how a computer should be used.
>
> Those IT departments weren't wrong.

Snickering (its the only possible response!).
>
> You may have noticed that the world has changed, and for example,
> letting users store all their documents all over their PCs is a disaster
> when it comes to backing up business documents.
>
> So, IT removed some options from users, because typical users don't
> "understand how a computer should be used".

Nope IT removed almost all options from users because they think that they're
the only ones that understand how to use a computer.

Its something like the debate between gnome and kde. The debate boils down
to how one processes things - - - - ergo - - - how one thinks.
>
> Do what you want on your own computers, but at work you cannot store
> critical documents in C:\WINDOWS\VERYIMPORTANTFINANCIALS\THISMUSTBESAVED.doc
>
Interesting example - - - - seems like the staff at the company you work for
really have no clue about how to do business. Rescue yourself from such
tedium - - - find a better job!
>
>
> > You know  - - - - where you only have a gui environment - - - or
> > where you only have a cli environment - - - - or where your cli
> > environment stifles flexibility - - - - (shall I go on ?).
>
> Again, do what you want with *your own* computers.
>
>
> And what's with - - - - the - - - - writing - - - - "style" - - - - ? Is
> there - - - - a - - - - reason?

Yes there is - - - have you ever noticed how in speech there is a rhythm
to it? Or perhaps you interact seldom with mouth breathers? Its an attempt
at massaging written language into a shape closer to that of speech.
>
>
>
>
> >> Desktop environments take their name and derive the concept from
> >> offices in the pre-electronic age. Window managers sound like
> >> something only pertinent to computers. Like terminals.
> >
> > As such the technology makes it easier to work with for most of us.
> > (Except for the idea of 0 being an actual counter as it is in only
> > the computing world.)
>
> I'm confused as to what point you're trying to make now.
>
>
> >> Sounds quite un-Linuxy.
> >
> > What - - - - you're not going to regale us on how you use VT-100
> > terminals for so very many years as you perfected your use of
> > assembly language?
>
> No, that would be stupid.
>
> I'm just pointing out "computers that work like humans" (or "change to
> suit humans") and "command line interfaces" seem rather mutually exclusive.
>
> Humans communicate verbally for the most part until we all learned to
> type - we changed to work in a more computer-centric manner.
>
>
> And I love working in a CLI. But I'm working in the computer's way,
> it's not working in a human way.
>
> It's highly efficient to know bash, etc., yet shells are rather unlike
> any human to human communication techniques.

Hmm - - - mathematics, motion control are two areas that
come to mind where one can use either a cli or a much more natural language.
Whatever it takes to get the job done.
>
>
> Hence my semi-jesting message about how much we really want computers to
> suit humans, as the computer interfaces that most suit typical humans
> are anathema to computer geeks and LUG members.

It might come down to a very different way of looking at things.
I suffer from being multi-lingual - - - it is fascinating to me that
the first computer
that I used was easiest to use along with the widest capabilities - - - - some
almost 40 years ago. Even today I find trying to use multiple languages in a
document is a right royal pita. Supposedly I can use special characters but I
find the still remembered character groupings from the Mac far more intuitive
than anything that I've seen in linux - - - - even though linux is available in
far more languages than any other system that I know about. But then it
seems that programmers don't find it too important to communicate with
people - - - - its just more fun to communicate with a computer, and
therein lies the rub.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] Favorite desktop manager?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 1:09 PM BCLUG via talk  wrote:
>
> o1bigtenor via talk wrote on 2023-07-27 03:50:
>
> >> In my view computers should change to suit humans, not the other way
> >> around.
> >>
> >>
> > So thankful that I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
> > Is there any way to make this louder
>
> Sounds like you guys hate CLI environments and probably use Siri /
> Google Assistant / Alexa / *voice* as a near ideal human-like user
> interface then?

Hmm - - - - I remember the advertisements early on in microcomputers
- - - - you know - - - - "computing your way" implying that an IT department
wasn't going to force you to do things the way they wanted.
That was considered a great idea - - - - until those same IT departments - -
- - now responsible for fleets of microcomputers - - - well - - - they decided
that they're the only ones who understand how a computer should be used.
You know  - - - - where you only have a gui environment - - - or where you
only have a cli environment - - - - or where your cli environment stifles
flexibility - - - - (shall I go on ?).

I do know what those user interfaces are and as I find that even trying to
use an actual human to get things done makes for an incredible pita so
for me to use something that forces me to do things the way one particular
person or 'team' decides to do so - - - - it just ain't going to happen.
>
>
> Desktop environments take their name and derive the concept from offices
> in the pre-electronic age. Window managers sound like something only
> pertinent to computers. Like terminals.

As such the technology makes it easier to work with for most of us.
(Except for the idea of 0 being an actual counter as it is in only the computing
world.)
>
>
> Sounds quite un-Linuxy.
>

What - - - - you're not going to regale us on how you use VT-100 terminals
for so very many years as you perfected your use of assembly language?

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I say this partially in jest, but also to point out the seeming
> contradiction in what I inferred as the points being made.
>
I love contradictions - - - - why do I have to do it that other way
all the time?

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] Favorite desktop manager?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 7:30 PM Robert Brockway via talk
 wrote:
>
> On Wed, 26 Jul 2023, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
>
> > I hate investing in customization because in the long term, it all gets
> > washed away.
>
> That's one of the reasons I stuck with a window manager rather than moving
> to a desktop environment.  In most cases to get fvwm2 running I install
> the package, copy one config file and login.
>
> In my view computers should change to suit humans, not the other way
> around.
>
>

So thankful that I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
Is there any way to make this louder (so its heard in a greater area?!?!?!?

Kudos man kudos
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Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools.

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 12:09 PM Scott Allen via talk  wrote:
>
> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 at 12:49, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> > That means  one for each room?  or one for each outlet where a power strip
> > will be run?
>
> Think of a UPS as a power bar. If you can power all of the equipment
> you'd like to protect on one power bar or outlet, you need one UPS. If
> the equipment is in different rooms or on different circuits, you will
> need more than one, just like you would use multiple power bars.
>
>
If you're buying ones that are rated at some 600W or so (1500 VA - - - -
which should be watts but somehow isn't) you might be surprised at what all
you can run. The cost in the mid $200 range - - - if I were buying 4 or 5
I think I might be asking for a bit off of each too.
One thing to keep in mind is that you don't want to count on them too hard.
If you drain the battery dead a couple times you capacity is going to hit the
toilet! - - - These are short term tools - - - - NOT serious UPS where you have
hours of backup.

HTH
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Re: [GTALUG] computer hardware testing tools.

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Thu, Jul 13, 2023 at 11:26 AM Scott Allen via talk  wrote:
>
> On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 at 10:56, Karen Lewellen via talk  wrote:
> > for example the fridge is on an outlet with other  items
>
> The Canadian and Ontario electrical codes require a fridge to have its
> own dedicated circuit. (Actually, you're allowed to have an additional
> outlet above the fridge location, on the same circuit, for a 120V AC
> electric clock, which isn't commonly used or provided these days.) If
> there are other things on the fridge circuit, you should remove them
> if it's under your control. If these other items aren't under your
> control, you should inform your landlord that it's a violation of the
> electrical code.

You bet - - - - totally accurate as to about 2023 - - - any idea what
the code was
in ??? when that particular house was built? AIUI the fridge on a separate
circuit is from some time in the 80s so if the house was built in the 70s it
would have been code legal to do otherwise.
Is it a good idea to have the fridge on with other items - - - nope - - - but
codes change over time - - - sometimes in good ways and sometimes in
not so good ways.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] Red Hat Paywall...

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Jul 4, 2023 at 10:01 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
 wrote:
>
> | From: Giles Orr via talk 
>
> Thank you and others for telling us about your experience.
>
> |   If I need something newer, I can "pin" a
> | package, getting it either from testing or backports.  This is
> | admittedly a PITA to set up, and I hardly ever use it because of that
> | ... but I _have_ used it, and it proved reasonably reliable in
> | practice.  Although getting your head around pinning weights is ...
> | nasty.
>
> Can you use that to get the newer FireFox that you need?
>

I've been using Firefox-esr for years from debian testing.
Seems to work reasonably. At present its my predominant use
browser.

HTH
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Re: [GTALUG] Red Hat Paywall...

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Jun 27, 2023 at 10:22 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
 wrote:
>
> This Red Hat change concerns me.
>snip

>
>   It feels as if RH steers the future of Linux by making so many
>   contributions.
>
> - Ubuntu LTS + fresh Ubuntu has been pretty good.  I've had more
>   problems with package updates on Ubuntu than of Fedora, but it has
>   been pretty good.  Distro version upgrades have been good but not
>   perfect in my modest experience.
>
>   Canonical has repeatedly acted in ways that offend or scare me.  So
>   Ubuntu, although easy, feels like a potential trap.

Found this to be true - - - - spent a lot of time a number of years ago
looking into LXD  - - - the snap environment is one that NEVER will
be seen here again if I can help it.

Canonical is, imo, desperately looking for ways to monetize their
brand - - - - - someone's just have to have more $.
>
> - debian Stable + Testing + Unstable.  I don't have much experience
>   with debian.  I fear that the lack of full-time paid engineers might
>   reduce the safety relative to RH (that could easily just be FUD).
>   debian's goals are good by me.
>
> So: I'm thinking of switching to debian.

I was with Debian for over 10 years - - - have now switched to
Devuan - - - thereby getting rid of another item of 'control'.
>
> I'd like to learn from others.  How do you choose to solve these
> problems?  Maybe some of them are non-problems.

The problem is that the small encroachments don't tend to isolate
- - they tend to grow - - - somewhat like microbes! (With similar results
in my experience!).
>
> 
>
> Giles has a problem with needing a stable distro with a more recent
> FireFox.  I suggested, against my preferences, that this might be a
> perfect use for Snaps/Flatpacks.

Snaps are a system controlling adventure - - - be aware of this BEFORE
starting down that road. Haven't used flatpacks.

I find that browsers are needing updates almost on a daily basis.
Am wondering if there is a way of reducing the 'encroachment' of
the nefarious bits of cruft adhering to all browsers (at least as far
as I see).
>
> I wonder if I should be using a stable distro everywhere but with
> containerized upgraded packages where they matter.  I yet don't think
> so.
>
> The rest of my family uses Fedora on their workstations.  But they
> hate applying updates (even when I do the work).  They are way behind
> most of the time.  Maybe a stable distro + a fresh FireFox would be
> best for them too.

I've already been informed that if I weren't doing updates windows would be
applied post haste - - - something about the devil they know (Work systems
are all M$ Win!)
>
> How many other packages would I need to have fresher-than-stable?
>
> - support for newer hardware
>
> - compilers etc.
>
> - more pain-points would be discovered.
>
> 
>
> A fundamental problem is that feature changes and bug fixes are
> usually mingled in upstream.  In some cases, it is a false
> distinction.  Few developers want to maintain a bunch of old releases.
> It is very hard for a distro to correctly separate these two, and yet
> that is required to maintain a stable distro.

I tend to run in debian's equivalent of 'testing'. Found over the last more
than 10 years that that was a reasonable compromise to stability  and
currentness.

HTH
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 6:32 PM Scott Allen  wrote:
>
> On Sun, 30 Apr 2023 at 18:53, o1bigtenor via talk  wrote:
> > PasberryPi Pico w lan 8720 module (I lprefer wired communications - - 
> > security)
>
> I found this article:
> https://www.raspberrypi.com/news/how-to-add-ethernet-to-raspberry-pi-pico/
>
> If you follow it, your Pico will obtain an IP address from the router
> (or other DCHP server) using DHCP. Therefore, for example, if you set
> your router's DHCP server to assign addresses for 172.16.0.0 with a
> mask of 255.255.0.0 (or 172.16.0.0/16), it would be able to hand out
> up to 65534 IPv4 addresses (not including the router itself) in the
> range of 172.16.0.1 to 172.16.255.254
>
> If you need the Pico to have a fixed IP address, most DHCP servers can
> be set to assign specific IP addresses based on the device's MAC
> address.
>
> I haven't looked further but it's also very likely that you can
> configure the ethernet port of the Pico itself to have a static IP
> address and a mask of any length.
>
>
Also the article that I had read.

What you have written is the direction that I've been thinking. Its
easy- - its straightforward. I understand its not sexy - - - like using
the 192.168.1.1/16 but it will get the job done.
My only concern is what I do for when I switch to ipv6 (its in the
cards likely inside of 18 to 24 months) - - - - the information that
I've found on ipv6 so far is all for small scale networks - - - under 30
or so devices - - - - maybe I'll have to start looking for information
on ipv6 and 500 to 2000 devices.

Oh well - - - - thanks to one and all for the information.

Hopefully was at least somewhat interesting - - - - grin.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 5:21 PM James Knott via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2023-04-30 17:55, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> > I just spent over 1/2 hour looking at a number of SoCs (3) and 
> > microcontrollers
> > (also 3) and I can't find one where I can give it this 'classless'
> > address you're
> > talking about.
>
> Is there nowhere to set the subnet mask?  Either with / notation or
> a.b.c.d.  If you can set the address, you should be able to do that, one
> way or the other.
>
> For example, a typical network would be a /24.  It could be expressed as
> 10.0.0.0 /24 or 10.0.0.0 255.255.255.0, depending on the equipment.
>

Nope - - - - all I'm allowed is a quad - - - - or ipv6.

You likely quite disbelieve me - - - you are welcome to check for yourself.
I would be quite happy to be proven wrong!

(RaspberryPi 4B
PasberryPi Pico w lan 8720 module (I lprefer wired communications - - security)
beagleBoneBlack
ESP32 microcontroller
can't find the other 2  - - - - sorry)

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 9:52 AM James Knott via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2023-04-30 10:40, o1bigtenor wrote:
> > You seem to have this mastered - - - - then:
>
> Yep.  I also had some courses when I was at IBM, in the late 90s, and
> also went for my CCNA a few years ago.
> >
> > How do I write more than 254 addresses in ipv4 using only the quad?
> >
> > (You get no / anything - - - - just the 4 quads!
> > The idea is that these are all permanently set - - - not just flitting
> > temporary
> > demands a la Mikkie D's example.)
>
> You have fallen into the trap that I've been describing.  That sort of
> thinking has been obsolete for 30 years.  Have you seen any equipment
> that does not allow you to specify the subnet size on IPv4, at least
> other than consumer level gear?  All the "/" does is tell you how long
> the network and host portions of the address are.
>
>

I think the issue here is that we are thinking of the use from 2
different ends.

You are thinking solely from the router - - - and then your
impassioned responses
are likely correct.

I just spent over 1/2 hour looking at a number of SoCs (3) and microcontrollers
(also 3) and I can't find one where I can give it this 'classless'
address you're
talking about.

I am limited to using the quad - - - unless I am using ipv6.

Perhaps - - - - how can I run ipv6 inside (on my lan) and communicate
out using ONLY
ipv4?

(Popcorn ready!)

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sat, Apr 29, 2023 at 8:28 PM James Knott via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2023-04-29 21:18, Kevin Cozens via talk wrote:
> > On 2023-04-29 16:04, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> >> (My head is swimming with all the explanations on IP routing - - -
> >> have spent about 3 hours now looking at various documents - - - - I
> >> just can't find a clear answer. The first statement is my present
> >> network - - - I'm trying to figure out how to move beyond the access
> >> of only 254 devices at one time.
> >
> > The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) has assigned several
> > address ranges to be used by private networks.
> >
> > Address ranges to be use by private networks are:
> > Class A: 10.0.0.0 to 10.255.255.255
> > Class B: 172.16.0.0 to 172.31.255.255
> > Class C: 192.168.0.0 to 192.168.255.255
> >
> > If 0 and 255 should not be used for the last number then the 192 block
> > gives you 254 address, 172.16 gives you 65534, and 10 gives you
> > 16777214 addresses.
> >
>
>
> And this continues the misunderstanding that the OP has that available
> address block size depends on the address.  Yes I know the 3 ranges have
> different amounts of addresses available.  What he has to learn is how
> to subnet, not follow obsolete info.
>
> I have been working with IP since early 1995, when I took some courses
> through Humber College.  Even back then, address classes were obsolete.
> And back then, sitting in the class, I realized 32 bits was nowhere near
> enough, which is why I have been advocating for IPv6, ever since I first
> read about it, in the April 1995 issue of Byte magazine.
>
>

You seem to have this mastered - - - - then:

How do I write more than 254 addresses in ipv4 using only the quad?

(You get no / anything - - - - just the 4 quads!
The idea is that these are all permanently set - - - not just flitting
temporary
demands a la Mikkie D's example.)

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sat, Apr 29, 2023 at 8:20 PM James Knott via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2023-04-29 17:48, Scott Allen wrote:
> > On Sat, 29 Apr 2023 at 17:39, James Knott  wrote:
> >> That's only true because people have learned a lot of bad habits with IPv4.
> > No, it's because IPv4 addresses are annotated as x.x.x.x
> > Sticking with class size masks makes it easy to separate the network
> > address part from the device address part.
> >
>
> But then we get to the situation that led to the question in this
> thread, where people think the available addresses depends on which
> address range they're working with.  As long as the subnet size fits
> within the allocated space, there is no problem.  However it is better
> to think of address space in terms of need.  For most, that would be a
> /24, as is commonly provided.  It makes absolutely no difference whether
> that /24 is in the 192.168.0.0 /16 or 10.0.0.0 /8 blocks.  If you really
> need more, then just think of subnet mask size.
>

This sounds like a reasonable solution until you actually set up the router.
On 192.168.0.0 - - - - well I haven't found a way to talk directly to more than
254 devices - - - - or have you?

Now if you want to blow a lot of money on routers you could have a router
for each of the 253 addresses in 192.168.a.x   (the "a" section) - - - then you
would need one more router to manage all the other routers - - - - which to me
seems rather redundant power hungry and not worth my time.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sat, Apr 29, 2023 at 3:31 PM James Knott via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2023-04-29 16:04, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> > If I set up a router using the 192.168.1.1 I can access some 254
> > distinct IP addresses from my router.
> >
> > If I set up a router using the 176.10.1.1 how many distinct IP
> > addresses can I access?
>
> You're looking at the wrong numbers.  What determines the max is the
> subnet mask, no matter the address range.  So, a /24 gives you 254
> usable addresses, etc..  Also, forget about address classes. They've
> been obsolete for over 30 years.
>
> Now, if you really want to have fun, a LAN on IPv6 will have 18.4
> billion, billion addresses available.
>
Perhaps you might persuade my ISP to get their collective posteriors
in gear - - - yes?

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[GTALUG] how many addresses possible

[o1bigtenor via talk]

Greetings

(My head is swimming with all the explanations on IP routing - - -
have spent about 3 hours now looking at various documents - - - - I
just can't find a clear answer. The first statement is my present
network - - - I'm trying to figure out how to move beyond the access
of only 254 devices at one time. Please - - - this is not my business
- - - - I'm just using a highly connected system design idea in the
planning and trying to figure out how to get what I would like - - -
done. )

If I set up a router using the 192.168.1.1 I can access some 254
distinct IP addresses from my router.

If I set up a router using the 176.10.1.1 how many distinct IP
addresses can I access?

(I'm thinking some 64k worth but dunno!)

TIA
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Re: [GTALUG] Canadian hosting?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Fri, Apr 14, 2023 at 1:01 AM Kevin Cozens via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2023-04-11 09:13, Stewart Russell via talk wrote:
> > US ownership is fine:
>
> There was a big fuss some years ago about the US government being able to
> force ISPs to provide access to users accounts, or something like that. I
> don't remember the specifics but it was enough that I went with a Canadian
> owned company. The situation may have changed since then and they may not
> have as easy access to peoples data as they did back then.
>
>
AFAIK nothing has changed.
IIRC part of the bruha was due to the IRS pushing its nose into
'everyone's' business.
A US company is subject to US regulations so if their authorities say cough up
- - - -well most companies find it far easier to just cough up.
Doesn't matter that
you are in Canuckistan and so is your company  - - - - your
data/website/whatever
is NOT - - - - so you are now also subject to American regulations.

IMO its bad enough trying to placate the powers that be here - - - -
trying to keep
a second set happy without that being a deliberate choice (actual
physical export
of product) - - - - my question would be why.

So I would suggest that using an ISP based here is a good idea.
(One never knows when some bureaucratic entity decides to go on a rampage - - -
and its even harder to follow when its now not even part of one's national
information system - - - - if you think I'm full of it - - - - look
into the trucking
industry and California and there is LOTS of freight moving to and from there
from here.)

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Re: [GTALUG] war story: gtalug.org's filled up

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Wed, Apr 5, 2023 at 12:23 PM Kevin Cozens via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2023-04-04 17:50, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
> > GTALUG's server's filesystem filled up: little disk space left.
>
> I've had that happen to me in the past where the disk space on a server
> suddenly runs out. One of the reasons it happened was due to the log file of
> some program growing out of control.
>
> To avoid the problem in the future I always have servers running logwatch.
> It gives me a daily report of system activity based on various log files. Of
> particular relevance to the topic of this message thread is the bit near the
> bottom. It reports on in use and available disk space. Assuming nothing
> major happens in a day to fill up the space I can keep an eye on disk usage
> and take action long before the amount of free space gets to a dangerously
> low level.
>
> The other part of keeping an eye on things is running logrotate to keep the
> size of log files under control. Both logwatch and logrotate run daily.
>

Quite  a number of years ago a now deceased mentor advised that a great way
to reduce the problem caused by a runaway var file was to use separate
/var and /usr partitions (from / and /home).

Together with the foregoing - - - - well you should just never have a problem.

HTH
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Re: [GTALUG] Reminder: General Meeting - Tuesday, March 14th at 7:30 PM

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 7:45 AM Alan Heighway via talk 
wrote:

> NFTs: seizing the memes of production
>  with Warren McPherson
> 
>
> 14 March, 2023 at 7:30 PM
>
> Warren will lead a discussion about NFTs.
>
>
>
Please pardon the unknowing but are NFTs - - - - equivalent to  New
Technology File Systems - - - - a la M$ male bovine excrement?

(I can't find any information on NFTs - - - only on NFTS - - - - so I'm not
sure what's a happening!)

TIA
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Re: [GTALUG] New WiFi router?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 10:56 AM James Knott via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2023-03-08 11:34, William Park via talk wrote:
> > I'm paying for 100M/30M and I want 100M/30M.  Nowadays, everything is
> > AC or AX something.  I don't need all that on wireless side, but I
> > want 100M+ on the wired switch side, in case I move to Cable 300/500.
> > Though unlikely since I'm cheap. 
>
> I'm paying for 500/30 on Rogers and here's what I got just now.
>
> https://www.speedtest.net/result/14450988834
>

Suggest you use testmy.net  - - - in my experience speedtest has
been optimized for the provider - - - - so they look real good.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] Ubuntu Pro - a new, non-optional walled garden from Canonical

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 8:22 AM Stewart Russell via talk
 wrote:
>
> I should really stop running Ubuntu for the good of my health. This morning, 
> my various Ubuntu systems announced that a whole bunch of packages would be 
> unavailable unless I registered for Ubuntu Pro — https://ubuntu.com/pro
>
> Ubuntu Pro is free-of-charge for "personal" users for up to five machines. 
> Otherwise, pay up. I didn't see rates listed: you have to contact Canonical 
> to find out. Whenever I see that, I expect an Oracle-style shakedown in the 
> absence of transparency.
>
> The following packages seem to be under 'esmapps', only available through 
> Ubuntu Pro:
>
> ansible imagemagick imagemagick-6-common imagemagick-6.q16
> libimage-magick-perl libimage-magick-q16-perl libjs-jquery-ui
> libmagick++-6-headers libmagick++-6.q16-8 libmagick++-6.q16-dev
> libmagickcore-6-headers libmagickcore-6.q16-6 libmagick++-dev
> libmagickwand-6-headers libmagickwand-6.q16-6 libmaven3-core-java
> libopenexr25 libopenexr-dev libpython2.7-dbg libpython2.7-minimal
> libpython2.7-stdlib python2.7 python2.7-dbg python2.7-minimal
>
> Ubuntu Pro also seems to require snapd, my least favourite Canonical 
> 'innovation'. On the system I have it blocked completely it tried and failed 
> to install, hopefully with no hilarious side-effects.
>
> Anyone else experiencing this? I suppose I should've seen it coming with all 
> the little messages that Ubuntu had been peppering into my apt chatter every 
> day.
>

About 5 years ago I spent some few hundred hours investigated lxd - -
- - so I was introduced to snapd as well.

I declined that 'joy' and it was incredibly painful to revert - - - -
was only possible for me by a total
reinstall - - - - a la M$ world, which I still resent. At the time I
could think of no reason as to why
canonical would want to force a captive audience for their updates.
Your news in the other boot
dropping. Mr Mark is (and has been) really really wanting to monetize
his baby - - - - and he wants an at least
Ellison sized grab bag for all 'his' work.

I returned to Debian and after frustration with systemd am now
presently with Devuan.
So far so good - - - - but then I'm not any kind of serious 'under the
hood tinkerer' with
Linux - - - - so ymmv - - - - I'd be dumping Ubuntu but then I don't
like being shoved into
a corner and told what to do very much.

HTH
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Re: [GTALUG] At the GTALUG AGM: How we handle Internet services

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Wed, Nov 30, 2022 at 6:50 PM Evan Leibovitch via talk
 wrote:

snip
> There's a good reason for that ;-).
>
> Let's face it. Email discussion lists are legacy. They're cumbersome and 
> fighting a never-ending battle with spammers and phishers. The main server 
> software choices in current use are listserv (36 years old and proprietary) 
> or mailman (23 years old and FOSS), and you gotta find a host and suitable 
> admins. Plus we still need to maintain an SMTP server, along with anti-spam 
> tools such as RBL hooks which only add more complexity. As a result, most 
> third-party providers of list-based email services these days are 
> one-directional and campaign-based (ie Mailchimp), sources of spam rather 
> than fighters of it. I know very few people younger than 40 for whom email is 
> a preferred means to engage in discussion.
>
> GTALUG has been experimenting with other tools such as a presence on Discord, 
> but email remains the preferred tool of people here for reasons I can best 
> ascribe to inertia. That's OK, but the effort to tame this email beast, in 
> its current form, is too much to bear for our limited resources. (If I had my 
> way we'd be a series of group chats on Signal). Google offers a path for 
> continuing to use email lists that we can live with.
>
Speaking only for myself - - - - well there is a good reason for that inertia!

I am finding that I limit my checking communication time to hopefully
only 2x per day.
(I try not to get too frustrated with 3X but do that if I'm not
getting any work done - - - I'm already tired so then its not like I'm
using valuable work time!)

Adding another communication technique to the list of
1. cell phone texts (I can't do this as I live rural and am in a
reception hole but most people would put that first!)
2. phone calls
3. emails (multiple accounts)
4. texts using a secure service (telegram/signal et al)
5. snail mail
6. other

well that would just takes more 'usable time' from my work day.

I do not get paid to amble around my communications so o o - - - I ask
that entities that I 'treat' with
respect my need to get work done.

Have read of companies that have studied this in their employees and
found that limiting communication time to
only 2 separate times per day results in a greater amount of work
product (assuming that the object isn't closely
tied to communication!!!). And this idea is driving my communication practices.

Viewing anything business related from the desires of the 'under 40' crowd.
Well - - - imo the common malaise is that too many people today go to
work for a paycheck.
They do NOT go to work to get the job or work done. Have run into a
few exceptions to that
but they literally are 'exceptions'!!
That difference needs to be understood.

Moving to multiple methods of communication would likely fragment
communication even further
and would, imo, further reduce the amount.

IMO an even bigger problem is convincing people that they actually
'need' to communicate!

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] Forced off DSL by Bell

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sat, Nov 26, 2022 at 6:13 AM James Knott via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2022-11-26 06:53, o1bigtenor via talk wrote:
> > I'm in a similar situation - - - they're dragging in fiber out in the 
> > country.
> > Its being worked on at this point so I'm not connected yet but soon I hope.
>
> I checked yesterday and saw 8 Gb was available here.  I checked the
> price and decided against it.
> >
> > Lennart - - - you're talking about connecting direct to your firewall
> > (likely an
> > appliance). I've acquired a mini pc (like the intel nucs), a second mini pc
> > that I will be dropping likely pfsense (firewall) on and also a managed
> > switch.
>
> That's what I have here.  I have a Qotom mini PC, with i5 CPU, 4 GB RAM
> 64 GB SSD and 4 1 GB Ethernet ports.  I run pfSense on it and have a
> managed 8 port Cisco switch.  Works very well.
>
No router?

TIA
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Re: [GTALUG] Forced off DSL by Bell

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 1:29 PM Lennart Sorensen via talk
 wrote:
>
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 01:36:04PM -0500, James Knott via talk wrote:
> > I use a separate firewall, pfSense, and proper access point.  I have the
> > modem configured for bridge mode.  It's very easy to do.  It's in the
> > settings.
>
> I guess I will find out eventually what their equipment consists of.
> I have read that a Nokia XS-020X-A ONT is involved in addition to rogers
> normally also providing a router/AP as well.
>
> At least looking up one of the houses I know is occupied already in the
> development, rogers is offering up to 2.5Gbit symetric FTTH service for
> $125/month or something like that.  Bell says they don't have info on
> service to that location at this time.
>
> And I did find some posts from people that said they just connected
> their own firewall directly to the ONT set to DHCP and it just worked
> so hopefully it's that simple.
>

Greetings

I'm in a similar situation - - - they're dragging in fiber out in the country.
Its being worked on at this point so I'm not connected yet but soon I hope.

Lennart - - - you're talking about connecting direct to your firewall
(likely an
appliance). I've acquired a mini pc (like the intel nucs), a second mini pc
that I will be dropping likely pfsense (firewall) on and also a managed
switch.

I got this equipment idea from reading recommendations for businesses.

Besides less equipment - - - - is there any other advantages to only
running a firewall and then your home lan?

TIA
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Re: [GTALUG] Forced off DSL by Bell

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 5:35 PM Michael Galea via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2022-11-21 17:51, Tom Low-Shang via talk wrote:
> > On Mon, Nov 21, 2022 at 04:13:28PM -0500, Michael Galea via talk wrote:
> >> Hi, Bell notified me that they will soon be shutting down my copper
> >> telephone service, no options.  My DSL to TekSavvy will go with it. Joy.
> >
> > Have you contacted TekSavvy about it? They do provide service on a dry
> > loop at no extra charge. That's how my TekSavvy DSL is setup.
> >
> I spoke to the sales guy at TekSavvy first. He asked "Are they going to
> remove the copper?", which I thought was ominous.
>
> I spoke to two Bell service reps and one said the copper would stay. The
> second went away to tech support (10 minutes!) and then said "Bell
> management was committed to a completely fibre based network".  I crupt
> in to the technical support line and a tech confirmed the bad news, the
> copper is being yanked.

Germany has gone to a 100% non-POTS system.
>
> PS: Thank you to Alex and Mike for confirming that I could run PPPoE
> through the Bell modem.
>
> PPS: Oddly enough, my daughter, a Globe and Mail reporter, is
> interviewing the head of the CRTC today. I wish she could ask him why
> I'm going to have to pay Bell double the cost of my TekSavvy Internet
> and what he expects TekSavvy to do when all the DSL and Cable is gone.
>
(Hopefully you won't be too insulted with a rhetorical question - -  )

Do you really think Bell gives one rat's fart about anything than their profit?

(Please note - - - service is somewhat similar(!!!) in their structure
- - - yes I
am now also a 'Bell' customer - - - so speaking from experience ;-( !! )
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Re: [GTALUG] Mail server Problems?: Re: Tonight's meeting announcement?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Nov 15, 2022 at 10:58 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
 wrote:
>
> | From: Znoteer via talk 
> | Never having set foot in a local meeting (the commute from Montreal is too
> | long :) ) I'm not known to any of you except through my rare contributions
> | to this list.  But, it's a job that can be done remotely and I am often near
> | a computer, so I'd be willing to help with moderation.
>
> Thanks very much for stepping forward.  The board will surely respond.
>
> Thanks for the history -- very interestsing.
>
> Do consider attending our tele-meetings.  Each meeting since the start
> of the pandemic has been remote.  Most recently, on Big Blue Button.
> To "attend" you only need a GUI browser and a good internet connection.
> But this is a limited-time offer: many are hoping to get back to
> face-to-face meetings.

I would suggest that it be considered that GTALUG broadcast the meetings at
the same time as they are face-to-face.
I'm betting that more of us remote types would appreciate that option!!!

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] Linux on Chromebook

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sun, Sep 4, 2022 at 11:00 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
 wrote:
>
> A dirt cheap Windows netbook.  Not very good (screen is TN 1366 x 768).
> Should easily run Linux.
>
> https://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/p/laptops/lenovo/windows-edu-laptops/lenovo-100e-2nd-gen-(amd)/len101l0021
>

Managed to get one of these.

Want to use it for digital books from the public library and maybe a
little more.
I would like to install *nix on it but - - - -
am having a hard time finding any information for how to access the bios.
(So that I can get it to boot from a usb stick where I have a web
install version
of the OS I want.)

Can't find anything searching using Lenovo E100 Gen 2  - - - -

please - - - - ideas???

TIA
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Re: [GTALUG] desktops [was Default VNC in GNOME?]

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sat, Jun 11, 2022 at 10:19 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
 wrote:
>
> This is an interesting thread.  It is great to hear what works for other
> people.

Ditto!
>
> | From: Lennart Sorensen via talk 
>
> | And given all I want a linux desktop to do is display windows, let me
> | minimize, maximize and resize the windows in a normal way, and be able
> | to launch programs by hitting alt+f2 and typing the name, I tend to just
> | stick with xfce which is nice and lightweight.  I don't want a file
> | manager of any kind nor do I care to have menus for launching things. :)
>
> I like Gnome, ignoring any load it adds to my machine.
>
> GNOME has a nicely sparse desktop.  Good.
>
> If I wish to run a GUI program, I just type the Windows key and start
> typing the name.  By the time I'm a few characters in, it shows me that it
> knows what I meant and I can type ENTER to start it.  Surely easier than
> ALT-F2 (I almost never type function keys -- too far from the home row).
>
> I can cycle between GUI programs that are running using Windows-TAB.
>
I have a cleaner and more useful solution - - - - more screen real estate!
Then you have your program up and you just activate the program do your stuff
and do what you wish with the results.


> On the surface, GNOME is simple.  Underneath is a bit of a mystery to me.
> It sure seems complicated. That makes me a little uncomfortable, but only
> when something doesn't work or doesn't work the way I expect.
>
I found that KDE seemed to fit my thinking better that Gnome did - - -
maybe this is a very personal right - left brain balance kind of thing - -
- - dunno what drives it.

> I really like that Fedora comes out of the box in a pretty much
> usable state.  I change a very few things.  I just don't waste
> any effort creating the perfect desktop environment.

I spend some time on this.
Have north of 24 desktops and designate them for discrete functions.
That means that I only need to go to a specific desktop and the tools
I generally use are waiting for me - - - ready to use.
>
> Conceptually, I dislike large complex code bodies.  But I feel stuck
> with them.
> - web browsers
> - video drivers
> - kernels
> - desktop environments
> - spreadsheets and word-processors
> - database systems
>

For myself - - - I'm starting to wonder if there is a way to limit things like
web browsers - - - - and if its time to push back at their developers.
Seems like the crazier the ideas the faster they get implemented and
that those ideas are more to benefit the less than ethical or for more
'eye candy' (I'm very tired of stupid emoticon kiknd of things).

> I have a friend that turned his back on this and uses Plan 9.  I don't
> have the energy for the simple life.
>
I have too many things to do already without adding learning something
this 'unusual'.

> I suspect Lennart is trying to only use things that he understands.
> I've mostly given up that requirement.
>

Hm - - - - does anyone really understand any of the 7 items
you listed in their totality? (Sections maybe but the entire environment - - -
doubt it.)

Interesting topic - - - hopefully I'm not bending it too far!

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] From Slackware to which distro?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Apr 26, 2022 at 11:37 PM William Park via talk  wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I've been running Slackware since forever.  It's time to grow up and see
> the world.  Which distro would you recommend that I move to?  Yes, I
> know it's personal, and reasons will be varied and educational.
>
> - Ubuntu -- OK.  I use it at work in VM and in WSL (Windows Subsystem
> for Linux).  For me, Mint is another flavour, just like Kubuntu,
> Xubuntu, etc.
>
> - Oracle -- I use it at work too.  Was CentOS, but switched to Oracle
> because they said delivering end-of-life OS is bad marketing.
>
> - Fedora -- OK.  Doesn't seem to have its equivalent in Ubuntu side.
>
> - OpenSUSE -- Difficult to pin down.  It uses RPM but in their own way.
> It has rolling release (Tumbleweed) and versioned release (Leap).
>
> - Arch -- no.  I don't need/want to learn what they are trying to teach.
>   I run Slackware, so I already know all that.
>
>
Suggest Devuan - - - I'm working on moving more of my systems that way
over time.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] Google Gsuite Legacy domain replacement

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 2:50 PM Andrew Heagle via talk  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2022 at 2:22 PM Kevin Cozens via talk  wrote:
>>
>> On 2022-04-13 13:40, Andrew Heagle via talk wrote:
>> > But the pricing they are asking for is a bit high for use. $7.80 (Plus
>> > tax I assume) per user per month, or $420/yr.
>>
>> I think that must be a typo. Assuming with tax it isn't more than $10/month
>> that is only $120 per year, not $420.
>>
> Google wants Legacy Gsuite users to upgrade to the Google Workspace 
> https://workspace.google.com/intl/en_ca/pricing.html
> The price is per user per month.
>
> There is some free option, but you cannot use your own personal domain name 
> anymore and cannot do user management anymore. I'm not sure how that would 
> even work.
>
>

Hm - - - I guess the >$10 BILLION/month in revenues from the value
of the data they suck just isn't enough any more.
I'd say its time to replace the regular gmail addresses as well.

Note to self: get a cracking on the hosting stuff!

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] Sane Email System?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Thu, Mar 3, 2022 at 7:25 PM Howard Gibson via talk  wrote:
>
> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 20:18:14 -0500
> Peter King via talk  wrote:
>
> > Hello!
> >
> > I've just been informed that "legacy authentication" is going to be
> > disabled at the University of Toronto for my email account.  Well, I
> > suspected something like this was in the works when they adopted MS Outlook
> > 365+ as the mail server, but it still isn't welcome.
> >
> > Up to now, I've been able to use mutt and getmail for all my needs; I run a
> > daemon that picks up (and then deletes) email from a variety of servers
> > (University of Toronto, GMail, and so on) onto a single computer.  There
> > I apply all the filters, spam protection, sorting into various inboxes,
> > and so on.  To read email I just ssh in from any computer anywhere and run
> > mutt.  All configurable with nice text-based scripts.  The email files are
> > automatically backed up and sychronized to other computers, too.  When I'm
> > out of town I have the mail be downloaded/deleteed manually, and I have
> > full fallover capability, so if one machine is offline I can switch to
> > another without any hiccups.
> > --
> > Peter Kingpeter.k...@utoronto.ca
> > Department of Philosophy
>
> Peter,
>
>I use the email client Sylpheed to access gmail among other things.   I 
> use POP to download email.  I don't like leaving personal information up on 
> the cloud.   Sylpheed stores it email in MH format, just like mutt.
>
A long time mentor, no deceased, espoused Claws - - - which itself
is a fork of Slypheed. IIRC Sylpheed is sorta 'long in the tooth' (OK
it seems its sometimes called Slypheed-Claws - - - sorry).

HTH
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Re: [GTALUG] ot: perhaps, headphones?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Fri, Jan 14, 2022 at 4:34 PM Erica Peterson via talk  wrote:
>
> Karen, if this is for a reader (not music), maybe you could visit (or email) 
> Radioworld and talk with them about their headphones and headsets?  
> Unfortunately there don't seem to be good product filtering options on the 
> website, but I would think they would be knowledgeable about the specific 
> parameters you care about.
>

If particular frequencies are the issue then dropping an equalizer
into the system and dropping those specific frequencies on something
like a short tight (like 18dB roll off) cutoff could help.

If its sound wave attenuation - - - that's going to be very tricky trying
to 'fix' it.


Find it interesting - - - the talk has come around to audiophile.
Bought my stereo some 30 odd years ago.
In the process found speakers that I really liked - - - that time the
Infinity Quantum Reference II s.
They were very very nice.
I was auditioning using a recording of the Montreal Symphony doing
Stravinski's Rite of Spring (Dances Sacre et Profane is a serious
test). The 12' bass drum and the serious amount of cymbals and
triangle are tough on systems.
Then there was a recording of Bach's organ music (some of it) with the
Toccata and Fugue in d using a 32' stop.
Found out what that sounded felt like in a cathedral in Europe where
the organist played the pedals using 'only' the 32' stop. That organ
had some 70 hp on the blower and I was about 125' from the pipes - - -
could feel a lot of energy through my feet that time! (that's also 16
Hz!)
Then I was also using a recording of music feature Placido Domingo - -
- the male voice is tough on speakers because the frequencies are
moving from the mid/upper bass into the mid-range areas.

Wished I could have bought those speakers (company now called Genesis)
but they cost almost as much as I spent on the system that time.

Brings back a few memories - - - -

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] decent cheap ChromeOS tablet -- can run debian in a container

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 11:06 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
 wrote:
>
> | From: James Knott via talk 
> |
> | I borrowed one from the Mississauga Library and wasn't impressed. You pretty
> | much had to do everything in the "cloud", though having Linux built in would
> | improve on that.
>
> The idea of ChromeOS is "cloud first".  But there is some provision
> for doing offline work.
>
> If you use Android apps on this tablet, you get and Android
> experience.  But better because you device support is much longer.
>
> If you install Linux, you get a Linux experience.  With the expected
> amount of cloudiness.

Chose to get one of these babies for trying a tablet.

wondering -- - so a couple questions:

Is dual boot better than blowing away the android system and installing
an OS?

I'm a long time debian user - - - trying to decide between debian or
galliumOS - - - suggestions?

TIA
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Re: [GTALUG] [GTALUG-Announce] January Meeting Reminder

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 12:27 AM Alan Heighway via talk 
wrote:

> *Speaker:* Chris Sullivan
> *Topic:* Radio Direction Finding with the Raspberry Pi
> *Date/time:* 2022-01-11 T19:30:00
> *Location:* Virtual - Big Blue Button (link below)
>
> *Topic description:*
>
>
> Home-brew pseudo Doppler radio direction finding systems are typically based 
> on discrete
>
> components. Much of the hardware complexity can be replaced with a software 
> design, using
>
> minimal external components to the Raspberry Pi. This can dramatically lower 
> the
>
> cost of implementation, provide additional signal processing capabilities, 
> and provide remote
>
> control capabilities that permit the coordination of multiple units for 
> instant triangulation.
>
> *We're going to use Big Blue Button for this meeting: *
> https://blue.lpi.org/b/eva-zjc-gjy-kgl
>
>
 Hmmm - - - - so I need to sign up for an account at this location to
participate?

Will this work on my tv (used for streaming)? (FAQs do not indicate)

TIA
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Re: [GTALUG] Index Exchange is hiring (a lot), and I can recommend it

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 5:36 AM William Park via talk 
wrote:

> Thanks.  Perl -> Go is big jump.  I'm currently dabbling in Dart,
> because few guys here are dabbling in Flutter.  Go is next on my list.
> I was an early adopter of Python but it went sour after awhile.  Looking
> for something better.
>

Curious - - - - what went sour with Python?

TIA
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Re: [GTALUG] Booting linux from nvme disk?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 5:34 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk 
wrote:

> | From: Peter King via talk 
>
> | Anyone had success with getting linux to boot from an nvme disk?
>
> Installation just worked for me (Fedora).  But I've only installed
> them in recent computers.  Mind you, I might be using knowledge that I
> don't remember I'm using.
>
> Back in the Haswell days, firmware would not boot from NVMe.  I don't
> remember when that changed but it was several Intel generations ago.
>
> Computers built as complete units (i.e. not sold as parts to be
> assembled) sometimes have very limited firmware setup screens.  In
> particular it can sometimes be very hard to set a boot target.  But if
> I remember correctly, your computer was assembled from components by
> you or your dealer.
>
> One funny trick: have one ESP (EFI System Partition) on the system,
> even if there are two drives.  I do that sometimes.  That means that
> you steer the firmware between .efi files in that ESP rather than
> between drive-and-thus-ESPs.  I'm not advocating this.
>
> | (Over the years I've learning to approach installing Linux with fear and
> | loathing, with almost all the problems being with the bootloader -- from
> | LILO through GRUB and GRUB2 now down to UEFI.)
>
> Do it enough and it becomes second nature?
>
> I claim to have no problems but I just upgraded to Fedora 35 on my
> main desktop and had the nvidia driver fail (because my card is too
> old).  Grrr.
>

If your needs are not overly complex nouveau does a reasonable job.
If, on the other had, you are asking a lot from my graphics - - - - well
then
nouveau may not cut it. Nouveau does multi-monitor far better than
nvidia, if your monitors are hdmi - - - - dunno how things will work.

Regards
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[GTALUG] Looking users of the Kenisis Advantage keyboards

[o1bigtenor via talk]

Greetings

In the thread re: keyboards the Kenisis Advantage keyboards have come
up in discussing ergonomic keyboards.

Wondering - - - is there anyone out there that was a quite proficient user
of a regular keyboard that moved to the Kenisis Advantage?

I keep hearing about how it takes a month or two to 'relearn' the skills
due to differences in the key layout. I know that moving from even a M$
4000 ergonomic to my present Kensington has shown me that little things
like a touch of space between the 'caps lock' and the 'a' show up. Maybe
I'm just sloppier on the keyboard than I thought. I remember finding moving
from a 'regular' keyboard to an ergonomic model (IIRC that was a Logitech)
was a breeze. Somehow I'm wondering about that time to get comfortable on
the Advantage keyboard.

I would really like to know how challenging you found the change and/or how
long it took until you were comfortable. If you would rather not share the
thread private emails would be fine.

TIA
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Re: [GTALUG] keyboards

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Fri, Oct 22, 2021 at 11:24 AM Giles Orr via talk  wrote:

> On Thu, 21 Oct 2021 at 16:40, o1bigtenor via talk  wrote:
>
snip (trying to keep the length somewhat reasonable!)

> >>
> >> There are many web pages that describe the colours of switches.
> >> <https://geargaminghub.com/cherry-mx-switches/>
> >>
> >> My wife likes "blue" keys (noisy and tactile).
> >> I like "brown" keys (less noisy but tactile).
> >>
> >> If you care a lot, you may care about the company that produced the
> >> switches.  I haven't bothered to sudy this aspect.
> >>
> >
> > Interesting comments from all of the responders so far.
> > Is anyone using an ergonomic keyboard from this group.
> > The old rectangular keyboard makes my hands ache at the
> > thought of using only this. I have some cheap keyboards gotten
> > with machine purchases - - - my working keyboard for anything
> > more than a few keystrokes is an ergonomic version. I'm about
> > 60 cm across the shoulders so a keyboard that's some 35 cm
> > just isn't comfortable.
> >
> > I also like my numeric keypad - - - - do a lot of entries on that
> > for business use and would like to have it part of the keyboard
> > if at all possible.
> >
> > I have used the mechanical keys in a very long time - - - think
> > I would prefer less noise rather than more but for high quality
> > would like give on that!
> >
> > Re: gaming - - - - I'm having too fun fun and use far too much time
> > on my system without playing any games - - - tend to relax with a
> > book (most often a physical copy too).
> >
> > Thanking one and all for their input!
>
> There appear to be a lot of definitions of what "ergonomic" means when
> it comes to keyboards.  I tend to the most extreme example: I own
> three (working) Kinesis Advantage keyboards.  The Advantage2 can be
> had for $400-$450 Canadian - not cheap.  They come with Cherry brown
> switches, but I have a habit of retrofitting them with Cherry blues -
> which makes them noisier and more expensive.
>
> Everybody is recommending the keyboard(s) they love ...  I have a
> CoolerMaster with Cherry Blues, and several IBM model Ms, and have had
> many other types of "ergonomic" keyboards over the years.  I love the
> feel of the switches in both the CoolerMaster and the model Ms, but I
> find I need the two halves of the keyboard farther apart for comfort.
> I also prefer vertical columns of keys - as opposed to the now totally
> unnecessary leftward slant of key columns on almost all modern
> keyboards.  I've experimented with keyboards a lot to end up where I
> am: the Kinesis Advantage took a month to adjust to, but has been
> worth it ... for me.  It's my daily driver both at home and at work.
> You have to make your own call on these things.
>
> A note about gaming keyboards: gamers seem to tend to prefer low
> activation force, linear keys (Cherry Blacks or Cherry Reds).  Most
> people who type for a living (as opposed to gaming) seem to prefer
> "tactile" keys, which is quite different from the "linear" keys which
> don't have any feedback at all until they bottom out.  I hate linears
> (but again - personal taste).  And then there's the "clicky" thing:
> the noise the IBM model M makes can be enough to clear a small room.
> Some people really really hate that noise.  I get that, but I still
> love the feel of those things.
>
> Further reading (my intro to keyboard layouts and key types):
> https://www.gilesorr.com/blog/computer-keyboards.html
>
> Interesting article and thanks for the response!

I learnt my typing skills on a manual typewriter using a 'Gregg
typing manual' as a class way back in junior high school.
My typing timed tests from those days were well north of
50 wpm - - - - its proved to be quite a useful skill over the
years.

I am also quite appalled at the total apathy most display
regarding their keyboards. It would seem that cheap is
the only useful attribute. This is not to say that I 'like' even
the idea of the seriously expensive Kinesis models but
I've been thinking about them for a couple years already.

Wish we didn't get hit so hard at the border when getting
them though!!!

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] keyboards

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 4:05 PM Jason Shaw  wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021, 16:40 o1bigtenor via talk  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 2:41 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <
>> talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
>>
>>> | From: Evan Leibovitch via talk 
>>>
>>> |   The emergence of high-end gaming on PCs has led to a quest for
>>> | keyboards that are super-responsive and comfortable for long periods.
>>>
>>> Yeah.  That seems like the best place to look.
>>>
>>> Beware: I've found their goals are not completely aligned with mine.
>>> Here are some.
>>>
>>> One feature that I don't care about is rainbow coloured lights for the
>>> keys.  Benign, but you are paying for this.  On mine (a Razer Blackwidow
>>> Ultimate -- love the names), I've got a green light per key, solidly on
>>> unless I install a daemon to change that.
>>>
>>> Another is "tenkeyless" which means "without numeric keypad".  I use
>>> the numeric keypad and don't want to lose it.
>>>
>>> Another is low-latency: I've never noticed keyboard latency.
>>>
>>> Another is: ugly seems to be valued.
>>>
>>> All support n-key rollover, for large n.  This requires sending multiple
>>> USB packets per keystroke.  This in turn confuses the firmware on a
>>> couple
>>> of our machines: if we wish to adjust firmware settings, we have to plug
>>> in a different keyboard.  As you can imagine, that took some effort to
>>> figure out.
>>>
>>> There are many web pages that describe the colours of switches.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _._,_._,_
>>>
>>> Groups.io Links:
>>>
>>> You receive all messages sent to this group.
>>>
>>>
>>>> View/Reply Online (#155011) | Reply To Group | Reply To Sender | Mute
>>>> This Topic | New Topic
>>>
>>> Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [
>>>> o1bigte...@gmail.com]
>>>
>>> _._,_._,_
>>>
>>> <https://geargaminghub.com/cherry-mx-switches/>
>>>
>>> My wife likes "blue" keys (noisy and tactile).
>>> I like "brown" keys (less noisy but tactile).
>>>
>>> If you care a lot, you may care about the company that produced the
>>> switches.  I haven't bothered to sudy this aspect.
>>>
>>>
>> Interesting comments from all of the responders so far.
>> Is anyone using an ergonomic keyboard from this group.
>> The old rectangular keyboard makes my hands ache at the
>> thought of using only this. I have some cheap keyboards gotten
>> with machine purchases - - - my working keyboard for anything
>> more than a few keystrokes is an ergonomic version. I'm about
>> 60 cm across the shoulders so a keyboard that's some 35 cm
>> just isn't comfortable.
>>
>> I also like my numeric keypad - - - - do a lot of entries on that
>> for business use and would like to have it part of the keyboard
>> if at all possible.
>>
>> I have used the mechanical keys in a very long time - - - think
>> I would prefer less noise rather than more but for high quality
>> would like give on that!
>>
>> Re: gaming - - - - I'm having too fun fun and use far too much time
>> on my system without playing any games - - - tend to relax with a
>> book (most often a physical copy too).
>>
>
> I switched to a split keyboard about a year ago, a Kinesis freestyle pro,
> and after a few month learning curve, I honestly can't imagine switching
> back. My shoulders feel so much better after a day of typing that I can
> hardly believe it. It has quiet mechanical switches that feel nice and
> responsive and should be fine for open concept offices.
>
> Not the cheapest, especially once the tilting kit and wrist rests were
> added in, but my posture is worth it.
>
> Hmmm - - - - had you used an ergonomic keyboard previously?

TIA
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[GTALUG] keyboards

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 2:41 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk 
wrote:

> | From: Evan Leibovitch via talk 
>
> |   The emergence of high-end gaming on PCs has led to a quest for
> | keyboards that are super-responsive and comfortable for long periods.
>
> Yeah.  That seems like the best place to look.
>
> Beware: I've found their goals are not completely aligned with mine.
> Here are some.
>
> One feature that I don't care about is rainbow coloured lights for the
> keys.  Benign, but you are paying for this.  On mine (a Razer Blackwidow
> Ultimate -- love the names), I've got a green light per key, solidly on
> unless I install a daemon to change that.
>
> Another is "tenkeyless" which means "without numeric keypad".  I use
> the numeric keypad and don't want to lose it.
>
> Another is low-latency: I've never noticed keyboard latency.
>
> Another is: ugly seems to be valued.
>
> All support n-key rollover, for large n.  This requires sending multiple
> USB packets per keystroke.  This in turn confuses the firmware on a couple
> of our machines: if we wish to adjust firmware settings, we have to plug
> in a different keyboard.  As you can imagine, that took some effort to
> figure out.
>
> There are many web pages that describe the colours of switches.
> 
>
> My wife likes "blue" keys (noisy and tactile).
> I like "brown" keys (less noisy but tactile).
>
> If you care a lot, you may care about the company that produced the
> switches.  I haven't bothered to sudy this aspect.
>
>
Interesting comments from all of the responders so far.
Is anyone using an ergonomic keyboard from this group.
The old rectangular keyboard makes my hands ache at the
thought of using only this. I have some cheap keyboards gotten
with machine purchases - - - my working keyboard for anything
more than a few keystrokes is an ergonomic version. I'm about
60 cm across the shoulders so a keyboard that's some 35 cm
just isn't comfortable.

I also like my numeric keypad - - - - do a lot of entries on that
for business use and would like to have it part of the keyboard
if at all possible.

I have used the mechanical keys in a very long time - - - think
I would prefer less noise rather than more but for high quality
would like give on that!

Re: gaming - - - - I'm having too fun fun and use far too much time
on my system without playing any games - - - tend to relax with a
book (most often a physical copy too).

Thanking one and all for their input!

Regards
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[GTALUG] Was Re: Heads up: Ubuntu 21.10 kills your desktop icons now - keyboards

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 6:59 PM Stewart C. Russell via talk 
wrote:

> On 2021-10-20 11:03, Lennart Sorensen via talk wrote:
> >
>
snip

> I've just switched to xubuntu. I think it uses XFCE. So far (10 minutes
> in) it mostly works. It does fail on one thing, though:
>
> > Let me alt+tab between the windows.
>
> I can't seem to do that. And I can't cycle between workspaces, either. I
> hope it's not because I'm using an Apple keyboard. It's the least
> disappointing keyboard I've tried, but Linux barely understands it.
>
>
Is it maybe not so much that Linux doesn't understand the keyboards but
that the keyboard manufacturers are making such junk that Linux just
struggles to understand the signals?

I've been using ergonomic keyboards for some about 20 years.
Started with a logitech (IIRC) and then was forced to move to the M$ 4000
as they were the only game left in the 'reasonable' market. The last one is
a Kensington but the last 3 M$ and this Kensington - - - they're real cheap
POS! Its gotten to where 24 months is a great lifetime for a keyboard.

I'm a fairly quick touch typist but I'm also seriously multi-lingual so a
good keyboard is quite important. Crap - - - the old manual typewriters
were far easier on me than these new items!!

To get something that is going to last a bit better - - - is the only
option the quite pricey items where they use the mechanical switches?
Suggestions - - - -

TIA
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Re: [GTALUG] Looking for assistance with Firefox

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 5:46 PM Stewart Russell via talk 
wrote:

> So my "only one window and if I can't read each tab title, close some" is
> well outside the norm here. I think I seldom reach 10 tabs
>
>
>
Greetings

I suppose that's the expected behavior desired by Mozilla.

It must be and then the programmers love their 19" monitors - - - you know
the
1280x1024 size that was a great idea some 25 or is it 30 years ago and only
one
monitor - - - - wouldn't want too much screen real estate now - - -yes?

Well - - - - its interesting that some can hold things to 10 tabs on a page
but
if FF expects that kind of workflow - - - - why isn't it up front about it?
(Question is more for the general ether rather than Mr Stewart)

Oh well - - - I suppose I should just return to under my bridge . . . .

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] Looking for assistance with Firefox

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 10:24 AM Lennart Sorensen via talk 
wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 10:11:47AM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
> wrote:
> > I have an urge, that I'm resisting, to see what happens with 500 tabs
> > in one window.
> >
> > If you get more tabs than can fit in the tab bar (is that the right
> > name?), the list can scroll.  Scrolling through 500 would seem very
> > awkward.  There is also a drop down menus showing you the tabs.  But
> > 500 in one menu sounds unwieldy.  I guess you can fall back on
> > searching for a tab ("% " in the URL.).
> >
> > Len: how do you navigate through 503 tabs in a window?
>
> Apparently I don't for the most part.  I have a few tabs pinned to the
> start (gmail, facebook, etc) that I use all the time, then other tabs
> for stuff I opened to read or look at.  Sometimes I forget about them
> (seems to happen a lot).  Of course you can also open a new tab, type
> the name of a tab and one of the options is to jump to a matching tab
> that is already open.
>
> I would not claim this is working very well. :)
>
> But firefox puts up with it most of the time.  Chrome would have been
> dead long ago with this kind of abuse.
>
>
>
Ah yes - - - - my kind of main page - - - - except I've gotten a lot more
than
500 tabs on a page. I open tabs to get information - - - just don't get to
reading and saving useful stuff. I try to do less but adding 10 tabs in a
week
is very very easy. Now think say 20 by 8 months . . .   (grin!).

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Re: [GTALUG] Looking for assistance with Firefox

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 8:12 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk 
wrote:

> All my knowledge of FF is superstition, not science.  The
> specifications, the manual, and the code base are too large to
> understand.
>
> If I type ^Q in FF, I am currently told that I have 53 windows with
> 386 tabs.  Then I tell it not to quit.  This shows bad discipline on
> my part.
>

'bad disciple' regarding what - - - - not following through with the quit
or 

>
> Go to URL "about:performance" for some hints about what different tabs
> cost.  I'm not sure that it is accurate.
>
> Superstition: when things get bad, quit and restart.
> Model: garbage collection of something is imperfect.
>
> Superstition: some pages are way more expensive than others -- a
> simple page-count isn't a great measure
>

I've found that parking a page on a 'new tab' helps longevity (smile).

>
> Superstition: javascript eats my CPU.  Sometimes it makes my coputer's
> fans sping up.  Sometimes FF tels me FF is taking a lot of CPU..
> Often it is on Globe and Mail pages.
>
> | From: o1bigtenor via talk 
>
> | > Are there hard limits that force Firefox to not renew pages as they
> were
> | > (so more than xx number of pages)?
>
> What do you mean by "renew pages"?  Is that "reload"? ^R
>

I'm not sure what the 'correct' term is!!!
You've restarted your system.
You ask for FF to be started.
Typically I have been asked if I wish to 'restore' to the previous.
(Firefox is set to restore previous session.)

>
> | > Are there hard limits that force Firefox to not renew 'a' page (I've
> had
> | > this happen where one page doesn't renew but all the rest do)?
>
> I'd take it as a sign to close tabs you don't need any longer, quit
> FF, and then restart it.
>

FF has already been shut down and then asked to restore.
My question is - - -  at what point in the use of resources does FF decide
to
'not' honor the requested 'restore previous session'.
That not restore can be selective - - - if one page has a plethora of tabs
- -
such a page may 'not' be restored even if all the other pages are.
This last iteration for me - - - - well all the pages and all the tabs were
not
restored. That was the prompt for asking about what the are.

>
> | > If there are no 'hard' limits (programmed in per se) are there amounts
> of
> | > pages or tabs or perhaps tabs/page or something else from this stew
> that
> | > greater than xx tabs or yy pages or even a small number of pages having
> | > more than xy tabs where such activity results in firefox not
> restarting as
> | > it is listed to do so (restart the pages and tabs present upon
> shutdown) is
> | > considered 'usual'?
> | > I am trying to find parameters where I'm not faced with what I have
> right
> | > now.
>
> I think that it just runs out of RAM or processor cycles.
>

Hm - - - - so how many TB of ram does it take so this condition doesn't
happen?

snip

Thanks for the response

Regards
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[GTALUG] Looking for assistance with Firefox

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 3:30 PM o1bigtenor via talk  wrote:

> Greetings
>
> Question re: Firefox behavior on a clean shutdown and reboot.
>
> Firefox is set to reload previous pages and tabs upon a restart.
> My system is LOADED with memory - - - - 64 GB in fact.
> Am also running multi-gpu and wanting to run with all 5 of my monitors but
> nouveau isn't up to running the 4k monitor yet! I use a large number of
> virtual desktops as well.
> As a result I get grumpy when programs don't allow me to work using my
> particular system.
> I will admit that I can get to over 25 pages open - - - I start a page for
> every topic I'm looking at.
> That's a page for every interest or every function (online
> tools/activities). There also tends to get to be a lot of tabs.
> I work had at keeping to under 40 to 50 tabs per age but there are usually
> a few pages where the number of tabs goes nuts.
> Because nouveau really doesn't like functioning with my setup (proprietary
> code is far worse!!! nvidia hates multi-gpu now although they didn't when I
> set up the system!) so system restarts are forced upon me far more often
> that I would like. Because of the forced system restarts I get to task
> firefox-esr in setting up the way it was before the system went down.
>
> Are there hard limits that force Firefox to not renew pages as they were
> (so more than xx number of pages)?
> Are there hard limits that force Firefox to not renew 'a' page (I've had
> this happen where one page doesn't renew but all the rest do)?
> If there are no 'hard' limits (programmed in per se) are there amounts of
> pages or tabs or perhaps tabs/page or something else from this stew that
> greater than xx tabs or yy pages or even a small number of pages having
> more than xy tabs where such activity results in firefox not restarting as
> it is listed to do so (restart the pages and tabs present upon shutdown) is
> considered 'usual'?
> I am trying to find parameters where I'm not faced with what I have right
> now.
> There were about 30 odd different pages and from 15 to who knows how many
> tabs per page. Some tabs were held as I was working on business deals.
> Re-establishing this amount of stuff is a royal pita. If I know that any
> behavior over a level described as 'x' is dangerous then I can work hard to
> stay under those levels.
>
> Please advise
>
(edited to add subject - - - argh!)
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[GTALUG] (no subject)

[o1bigtenor via talk]

Greetings

Question re: Firefox behavior on a clean shutdown and reboot.

Firefox is set to reload previous pages and tabs upon a restart.
My system is LOADED with memory - - - - 64 GB in fact.
Am also running multi-gpu and wanting to run with all 5 of my monitors but
nouveau isn't up to running the 4k monitor yet! I use a large number of
virtual desktops as well.
As a result I get grumpy when programs don't allow me to work using my
particular system.
I will admit that I can get to over 25 pages open - - - I start a page for
every topic I'm looking at.
That's a page for every interest or every function (online
tools/activities). There also tends to get to be a lot of tabs.
I work had at keeping to under 40 to 50 tabs per age but there are usually
a few pages where the number of tabs goes nuts.
Because nouveau really doesn't like functioning with my setup (proprietary
code is far worse!!! nvidia hates multi-gpu now although they didn't when I
set up the system!) so system restarts are forced upon me far more often
that I would like. Because of the forced system restarts I get to task
firefox-esr in setting up the way it was before the system went down.

Are there hard limits that force Firefox to not renew pages as they were
(so more than xx number of pages)?
Are there hard limits that force Firefox to not renew 'a' page (I've had
this happen where one page doesn't renew but all the rest do)?
If there are no 'hard' limits (programmed in per se) are there amounts of
pages or tabs or perhaps tabs/page or something else from this stew that
greater than xx tabs or yy pages or even a small number of pages having
more than xy tabs where such activity results in firefox not restarting as
it is listed to do so (restart the pages and tabs present upon shutdown) is
considered 'usual'?
I am trying to find parameters where I'm not faced with what I have right
now.
There were about 30 odd different pages and from 15 to who knows how many
tabs per page. Some tabs were held as I was working on business deals.
Re-establishing this amount of stuff is a royal pita. If I know that any
behavior over a level described as 'x' is dangerous then I can work hard to
stay under those levels.

Please advise
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Re: [GTALUG] Firefox 93 now supports PDF XFA forms

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 2:43 PM Stewart C. Russell via talk 
wrote:

> On 2021-10-09 7:24 a.m., o1bigtenor wrote:
> >
> > Now - - - - how long until this hits firefox-esr? - - - - musing.
>
> Depends what ESR cycle you're on. Debian considers 78.14 their ESR
> release (at least in Buster, which I haven't upgraded from yet), while
> Mozilla offers 91.2 as ESR. So if we review release dates:
>
> 78.142020-07-ish
> 91.2 2021-08-10
> 93.0 2021-10-05
>
> So maybe in 15 months, at the outside?
>
>
> Thank mr Stewart

I was just musing and hadn't taken any time to check things.
Had some issues with FF on a clean shutdown and reboot so thought it might
be useful to at least check things.

Debian world numbers (search on debian + packages + firefox-esr)

78.15   2021.10.06 (for stable and old stable - - - - testing not so much!!)
91.2 2021.10.06 (for unstable and a slightly older version 91.1 for
experiemental)
no listing on 93.0  - - - yet (grin!)

confusing (IMO) but there it is.

Maybe it won't take 15 months - - - let's hope!

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] Firefox 93 now supports PDF XFA forms

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 8:35 PM Stewart C. Russell via talk 
wrote:

> via  mastodon:
> Implementing form filling and accessibility in the Firefox PDF viewer -
> Mozilla Hacks - the Web developer blog —
> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2021/10/implementing-form-filling-and-accessibility-in-the-firefox-pdf-viewer/
>
> This appears to mean that Firefox on Linux can open and fill those pesky
> Canadian Government forms that were created with Adobe Livecycle. These
> used to appear as "*Please wait... If this message is not eventually
> replaced by the proper contents of the document, your PDF viewer may not be
> able to display this type of document*." but now open as proper forms.
>
> This must have been non-trivial to implement, because even Adobe couldn't
> create XFA forms outside the Windows-only Livecycle.
>
>
> Now - - - - how long until this hits firefox-esr? - - - - musing.

If I have questions regarding some problems with firefox - - - - would you,
or anyone else out there in gtalug land, know of a way to achieve a
'conversation' rather than a bug report.
Or is a bug report the only way of having such 'conversation'.

TIA
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Re: [GTALUG] Fedora 34 with EFI boot on Raspberry Pi 4

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 6:34 AM Stewart Russell via talk 
wrote:

> At last night's Raspberry Pi meetup, Chris Tyler demonstrated Fedora 34
> (aarch64) on Raspberry Pi 4. It's supposed to be a fully supported
> distribution, although the documentation hasn't quite caught up.
>
> It looked pretty neat, and I might be tempted to try it. I've been a
> Debian user this entire century so far, though, so there might be some
> friction. Audio over HDMI isn't supported yet, which will mean some
> hardware juggling for me.
>
> The EFI boot hasn't made it to other distros on Raspberry Pi yet, so the
> installation has to be from a raw image or Fedora's arm-image-installer
> tool.
>
> Fedora Workstation is here: https://getfedora.org/en/workstation/download/
> and you'll be wanting the aarch64 raw image.
>
>
Useful information - - - but - - - - it was Fedora that I moved FROM and it
was DEBIAN that I moved TO some 15 or so years ago.

That the documentation is late or poor or hasn't caught up - - - - its that
'the new normal'?  (Has been for as long as I've been using Linux.)

I'll wait for a while - - - things will shake out further.
Bleeding edge stuff has really lost its appeal.

This is good news though.
(Wonder how the hdmi code that would be used on that Pi is going to work -
- - - I'm having issues with HDMI and nouveau - - - - anyone 'know'?)

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] Win 11 requirements may be windfall for cheapskate Linux users

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sun, Aug 29, 2021 at 12:19 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk <
talk@gtalug.org> wrote:

> Win 11 has requirements that seem to obsolete a bunch of quite recent
> processors and devices.
>
> Windows can be manually updated on these machines but they will feel
> obsolete.
>
> - TPM 2.0 required.  Documented a lot of places.  It can be added to many
>   systems that don't have it.
>
> - obsolete: Ryzen 1 and older AMD
>
> - obsolete: most Intel Core 7th gen and all older
>
> - obsolete: any device that has no DCH driver (these can include things on
>   the motherboard)
>
> - unknown: Atom-based processor (like I'm  typing this on).
>
> All these will still work fine with Linux.
>
> I don't think any of my systems will qualify for Win 11.
>
> <
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/loosened-windows-11-requirements-cover-the-surface-studio-2-but-not-much-else/
> >
> <
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/08/why-windows-11-has-such-strict-hardware-requirements-according-to-microsoft/
> >
>


Started reading the article and almost entered paroxysms of laughter.

 Seeing ". . . Windows 11's stringent security-focused . . .  ."  is what
did the trick!
Somehow I'm supposed to believe that Windows is serious about security - -
- - tough for me to believe.
Yes they will eliminate a couple deep security flaws but what about the 10s
of thousands of other flaws?

I found 'linux' back in early 2000 after I got a virus on Win 98 SE.
Did some thinking at the time and realized that even at that time the
anti-virus/bug killing industry was
'only' worth $4 billion USD and today likely 'far much more'.
I remain unconvinced that M$ wants this part of its cash cow to disappear.
They are just trying to
appease some vocal detractors and will be able to point at these
couple three flaws and say - - - -
look Ma - - - we fixed the holes - - - - whilst creating ever more - - - -
what a royal joke!
These changes will force about 85% of users to upgrade - - - I suppose its
part of the plan to
drive profit margins up but this could backfire if john q public figures
out how they're getting
hosed! (Hope it does get out!!)
Likely Win 11 is also part of the forced upgrade routine too - - - - argh!!

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] intel graphics announcement

[o1bigtenor via talk]

Greetings

Found an announcement from INtel that they are getting back, I think, into
graphics cards - - - in a big way.

Did some searching - - - - all I can find is 'purdy pitchers' and swag for
sale.

Is this some more fud or is intel serious?

Anyone out there know - - - if so I'm guessing it will be 24 months before
anything useful shows up - - -yes?

Please advise
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Re: [GTALUG] Today! Re: [GTALUG-Announce] Meeting Tomorrow

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 9:13 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk 
wrote:

> The actual meeting will be at 7:30 PM on 2021 August 10.
> I think that the rest of the message is correct.
>

Thought that timing was likely but did find the previously listed
possibility
as 'interesting'.

>
> We are really lucky getting Alyssa Rosenzweig to talk.  She's doing
> important and tricky work providing open drivers for pervasive hardware.
> Reverse engineering hardware as complex as a GPU is astonishingly
> difficult.
>
> The Linux graphics stack is enormous and I don't understand it at all
> well.  I really look forward to Alyssa's talk: it should fill in one tile
> of the mosaic.  I hope to ask Alyssa if she knows a Royal Road to
> understanding the stack.
>

Having long term issues in trying to run a multi-gpu system and lately
adding
a 4k hdmi monitor monitor into a now 5 monitor display sub-system I also
have more than a question or two that I would love some answers for.
Likely won't be asking any questions as I'm finding that most of the Linux
community doesn't use multi-gpu setups unless its for computing horse
power or electronic currency mining which needs are quite different than
for a very heavy screen real estate system (better not to frustrate other
attendees!).

Thanks for confirming the scheduling.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] [GTALUG-Announce] Meeting Tomorrow

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 9:03 PM hi--- via talk  wrote:

> https://gtalug.org/meeting/2021-08/
>
> The Linux 3D graphics stack with Alyssa Rosenzweig
>
> GPUs and spinning cubes - what could go wrong? In this talk, we'll learn
> how 3D graphics works on Linux, from an OpenGL or Vulkan application down
> to the hardware, detouring through the dizzying world of shader compilers.
>
> Lightning talks
>
> This is GTALUG's version of an un-conference, a loosely structured short
> talks emphasizing the informal exchange of information and ideas between
> participants, rather than following a conventionally structured GTALUG
> meetings.  If you already have a topic in mind please send an email to
> speak...@gtalug.org to be added to the list of scheduled talks.
>
> Location
>
> We're going to use Zoom for this meeting
>
> Time: Mar 9, 2021 07:30 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)
>
>
Hmm - - - - dunno how you're able to do this - - - - this
go forward to back in time but I'd bet if you can that this would be quite
readily salable!

Please advise as to actual meeting time.

Is it possible to 'attend' meeting after the fact?

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] long war story: growing the ESP (/boot/efi)

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Wed, Jul 7, 2021 at 5:52 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
 wrote:
>
> == why you might wish to grow the ESP ==
>
> In a UEFI system, booting starts with the ESP (EFI System Partition).
>
> Apparently Windows creates a 100M ESP during a fresh install.
>

Thank you for your post!!

Does this also happen if there is no Win quotient in the partition?

TIA
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Re: [GTALUG] ftp helper app, and how to screenshot on Ubuntu 21.04?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 12:31 PM Giles Orr via talk  wrote:
>
> On Fri, 4 Jun 2021 at 19:28, Stewart C. Russell via talk
>  wrote:
> >
> > also it seems this upgrade has borked xclip, which is a can't-live-without
> >
> > Did anyone think Wayland was a good idea? A desktop without a working
> > clipboard?? And by working, I mean "the way it always did before"
>
> When change makes things better, we love it.  When it interferes with
> the way we work, we hate it.  But the reality is that Linux has to
> evolve.  And you can either learn how to rewrite 'xclip' yourself or
> find a replacement if it doesn't work anymore.  That's the wonder and
> horror of open source.  Yes, Wayland is causing a lot of grief.  But
> go talk to Scott about it sometime: he's got me convinced that it's a
> very good idea ... we just have to struggle through the rough spots.
>

Hmm - - - - well - - - - I've been running a multi-gpu system since
early 2012. Initially I ran the nvidia proprietary drivers and SLI. Later I
switched to nouveau. For 4 monitors that worked not too bad. Then I needed
to replace a gpu. Then decided to add a 4k monitor. The 5th monitor
has really shown a lot of cracks in the underlying systems. It seems that
HDMI code is not where it needs to be. I got tired of graphics subsystem
freezes so I am presently not using the 5th monitor. I had tried nvidia's
proprietary code - - - - except its now adamantly anti multi-gpu so there
is this wonderful hole that seems to be quite ignored by the dev community.
I've had many ask why I would want all that screen real estate - - - -
I wouldn't
want to work without it!
Wayland - - - - no way even close to allowing such (multi-gpu + multi-monitor)
- - - - so - - - from me it gets a shrug - - - - I've got enough
issues without trying
to pummel Wayland into something useful. I understand that Xorg is severely
pooh poohed - - - still works better than any of the alternatives - -
- - - wish it
handled multi-lingual better than it does.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] e-reader recommendations

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 9:00 PM David Mason via talk  wrote:
>
> I have a reMarkable https://remarkable.com/ which is great for PDFs, writing 
> notes, etc. and it will also read.
>
> It’s quite nice. I generally use it instead of paper for notes. You can even 
> transfer web pages to it (from a Chrome plug-in) to read them in more comfort.
>
An interesting tool!
For $750 inc taxes - - - - dunno.
Find the idea that handwriting is wonderful just a little goofy - - -
- my typing is easily 3x my handwriting speed - - - - accuracy is
likely far better than any ocr program as well.

The limitations of these devices are quite interesting.
The whole genre seems like toys for those with lots of toys.
It would help if technical books were not so expensive and so hard to
get. (Reader use)
Oh well - - - not designed for my kind of uses.

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Re: [GTALUG] e-reader recommendations

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, May 11, 2021 at 10:54 AM James Knott via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2021-05-11 10:26 a.m., Trevor Woerner via talk wrote:
> > I'm looking for recommendations for e-readers. Ideally these
> > recommendations would come in the form of "I have used  > e-readers> and  is the one I like best for " ;-)
> >
> > Nice to have features:
> > - be able to read websites (i.e. surf the web)
> > - be able to mirror a screen from my desktop (or act as another monitor)
> > - be able to take notes
> >
>
> Get a decent tablet.  I used to use a Kobo reader and find a tablet is
> much superior.  In addition to reading books, a tablet does so much
> more, including browsing a web site.  You can also get remote desktop
> apps for them.  And so much more...
>
> The only advantages of an e-reader, such as the Kobo, are battery life
> and using in bright sunlight.
>

Interesting - - - you forgot to mention a huge negative on most tablets - - -
no real keyboard with the system.  That to me is enough to preclude me
from even considering a tablet.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] ot: headphone jac replacement?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Apr 20, 2021 at 10:14 PM James Knott via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2021-04-20 9:38 p.m., Karen Lewellen via talk wrote:
> > what is loosekite?
>
> Loctite is a type of adhesive that is placed on screws or nuts to keep
> them from loosening.  You put it on after the screw or nut is tightend,
> so that it will not loosen.
>
>
Sorry - - - if you put locktight on AFTER assembly you will NOT get
positive results. What you need is one drop on the threads, but only
on the threads and then insert socket from the backside and
tighten on the nut from the front side, wait a bit and bob's your
uncle - - - - I like the waiting before stressing as it takes a few
minutes to do the anaerobic set as I remember.

For parts like this I might even recommend using red locktite but
that is only designed to come apart with heat. The blue version
should be sufficient.

As to getting this done - - - - I'm some 2500 km away or I'd offer to
do this - - - - even if soldering a new end on is required this is a
very easy and very very short fix.

Miss Karen - - - - any decent handyman should be able to effect this
fix - - - - so if you number one of those in your circle ask them.
Locktite is much easier to find today than when I first ran into it.
Would suggest that you ask to have all such nuts removed and
daubed and retighted. I'm finding it unusual that such a nut would
ever loosen - - - - but there you are.

Regards
Great product with lots of alternative formats for lots of uses - - -
good company.

HTH
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Re: [GTALUG] WSL, threat or boon? [was Re:Surveillance Capitalism [was another thread]]

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sun, Apr 4, 2021 at 8:28 AM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
 wrote:
>
> | From: Russell Reiter via talk 
>
> | I do have an interest in current events tho. What I see most recently is
> | that RMS called out canonical for surveillance capitalism and bashed WSL
> | for being a ploy to undermine free software.
>
> I missed or forgot that.  I guess he expressed this in 2017 (it seems like
> a lifetime ago).  I haven't found what he actually said (too lazy).
>
> Personally, I think that imitation is fair game.  GNU and LINUX
> certainly copied UNIX (and killed it but propagated many of its ideas).
>
> Evan's talk this month will be another step down that road.
>
> Fair competition is health for everyone (but not every thing).
>
> I see, for example, the competition between Intel and AMD on the X86
> front as killing Itanium, the favoured path of Intel.
>
> On the other hand, enclosure is scary to me.  Linux has been enclosed
> in the appliance world.  And those folks have rarely upstreamed any of
> their work.
>
> Is WSL enclosure?  It doesn't seem to be.
>
> Is WSL somehow better than Linux?  If so, we have work to do to catch
> up.---

I would posit from my corner of the world that Win10 is not an advancement.
Nor does WSL help much. If running win10 makes something wonderfully
easy - - - - then by all means run it but - - - -

Win10 insists on being a keystroke logger and updating a little bit like a
totally blotto individual wandering down the street. Neither activity is
actually a benefit for the user but does allow an extreme level of control
to be implemented by the OS.

As I still remember the slogan from in the early days of PCs : "computing
- - your way" and refuse to relinquish control to any other entity and
having found that my 'style' of using a system is quite unusual so would
be quite constricted in any such 'controlled' atmosphere (I won't touch
Ubuntu anymore either because of their also flying down this path) so
I will disagree, vehemently so in fact, that WSL is better.

If you needs are very very simple I doubt that there would be a
problem and if you don't care about intellectual freedom run WSL- - - - I
think that as your needs get more complex the more you need to have
computational organizational freedom. That computational organizational
freedom just doesn't exist in WSL (and a few other areas as well).

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] Has the graphics-card world gone mad?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

Mr Russell
>
> What I am assuming

When one works from assumptions - - - - well its very easy to be quite
out to lunch.
>
> Maybe because they already know what to do with information as postulated and 
> assume their readership does as well. It's not all that farfetched to assume 
> that people using linux do read the fine manual.
>

Had you actually read the page that I linked.
I would posit not - - - you might have responded differently if you had.

> Products are rebranded all the time. It's not really necessary to change 
> every bit of esoterica in informatics.

Hm - - - - every bit of esoterica - - - - the edid information is
at best 30% correct - - - - the rest is esoterica by your definition
(that incorrect information
included mode lines and physical information at a minimum).

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] Has the graphics-card world gone mad?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 3:24 PM James Knott via talk  wrote:
>
> On 2021-03-30 2:53 p.m., Kevin Cozens via talk wrote:
> >> Um, LG is an abbreviation for (and 1995 rebranding of "Lucky Goldstar"
> >
> > Really? I remember when I first started seeing ads for LG TVs and
> > appliances. The ads used to say "Life's Good". I always thought that
> > is what the letters stood for.
>
> Life may be good, but LG products aren't.  I've had a monitor and cell
> phone made by them.  I wasn't happy with either.
>

So far so good for the 4k monitor here.
They do make some decent white goods as well.

Time will tell though - - - - monitor is only in use for some few months.
I'll know much better in a few years.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] Has the graphics-card world gone mad?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 9:21 AM Russell Reiter  wrote:
>
> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 9:50 AM o1bigtenor via talk,  wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 8:00 AM Russell Reiter via talk  
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 1:33 AM Evan Leibovitch via talk,  
>> > wrote:
>>
>> Having spent quite a few hours working on things in this area I have
>> found a few things.
>> >
>> >
>> > IMO I think the issue is actually due the display EDID provided by many 
>> > monitor / tv manufacturers is lacking in certain format/reporting 
>> > respects. While linux autodetection generally works well in most use 
>> > cases, this is the type of problem linux users have historically faced. I 
>> > think this is probably due, not in any small part, to certain anti 
>> > competetative practices.
>>
>> Linux auto-detection is based on manufacturers adhering to standards.
>>
>> EDID has become a joke - - - - the kernel docs talk about this - - -
>> so its not just my opinion.
>
>
> I wouldnt nesessarily call EDID a joke. I mean what exactly is the 
> alternative. With it you are at least able to parse the binary and output 
> more human understandable xml structure, which you may then use to try and 
> craft a customised solution for yourself.

Hmm - - - I don't think you're understanding - - - - you are assuming
that the data parsed is relevant and accurate.
When it is not accurate and/or incomplete - - - - what is it?
IMO that's a sick joke.
>
>
>> DeviceID should work better but really doesn't have any kind of real
>> linux connection.
>> At least nvidia - - - - well - - - - they're not too worried about
>> adhering to any standard either - - - why should they - - - they KNOW
>> they own the market (at least only some 80+%).
>> My LG 4k monitor is actually made by Goldstar.
>> The extreme level of profits desired in the industry means that cheap
>> manufacture wins.
>> Also means that details that aren't considered crucial - - - -well - -
>> - they're just ignored!
>> >
>> > Take for example the issues with devices using ccd. The lack of linux 
>> > friendly colour profiles for ccd is one of the largest barriers to linux 
>> > users in their choices of scanners and cameras etc.
>> >
>> > I think in this case a closer look at the EDID for each monitor, assuming 
>> > they are not exact duplicates of each other, may provide a workable 
>> > solution. In fact it may be fixed already in a kernel/firmware upgrade.
>> >
>> > If that is not possible/desirable then xrandr, get-edid and parse-edid 
>> > will provide a better understanding of the autogeneration of the display 
>> > modelines used by Xorg or whatever server is used.
>>
>> What is so very fascinating is that both get-edid and parse-edid
>> really aren't that useful.
>
>
> I have found them very useful in the past in conjunction with xrandr but 
> personally havent had to use them for quite a number of years. As others have 
> said Linux just works.

You bet - - - - it just works until it doesn't work.
What does one do then?
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v5.9/admin-guide/edid.html
Except I just couldn't find anything besides this " "make" in
tools/edid/ " which didn't do anything here.
You bet I didn't know what I was doing - - - - but I also couldn't
find anyone talking about what to do either!

>
>> Its not that the tools don't work but the tools rely on information
>> provided and that information is all too often not correct.
>> Changing the incorrect information - - - - well - - - I couldn't find
>> a way to do that.
>
>
> In some cases is as easy as calling xrandr to author a modeline with the 
> exact specifications it detects after probing as opposed to relying solely on 
> information provided by the manufacturers who may not be entirely concerned 
> with the fact that some users cant just buy the dashboard app they use in 
> their day to day business.

Hmm - - - - how does one find a modeline?
That oh so wonderful EDID indicated that the monitor was made in 2017 and
the company released the product in 2020. Sorta looks like inaccurate
information
and that wasn't the only thing inaccurate so it was time to find
something else.

>
>> Enough of the information sites are themselves outdated (lists 4 and 5
>> years old really aren't helpful when working with product release in
>> the last 18 months).
>> >
>> > In fact several solutions I have read in the past point to the fact that 
>> > you can counterfit a manufactures EDID to overcome video tearing and 
>> > flicker on both linux and windows.
>>
>> This is possible but to do so means hacking at the kernel level.
>
>
> Not necessarily, I dont hack kernels, I operate in userland. I've solved 
> issues with these tools for this sort of thing in the past and fully expect 
> to do so in the future.
>
Best wishes and the best of luck!
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Re: [GTALUG] Has the graphics-card world gone mad?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 8:00 AM Russell Reiter via talk  wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 30, 2021, 1:33 AM Evan Leibovitch via talk,  
> wrote:

Having spent quite a few hours working on things in this area I have
found a few things.
>
>
> IMO I think the issue is actually due the display EDID provided by many 
> monitor / tv manufacturers is lacking in certain format/reporting respects. 
> While linux autodetection generally works well in most use cases, this is the 
> type of problem linux users have historically faced. I think this is probably 
> due, not in any small part, to certain anti competetative practices.

Linux auto-detection is based on manufacturers adhering to standards.

EDID has become a joke - - - - the kernel docs talk about this - - -
so its not just my opinion.
DeviceID should work better but really doesn't have any kind of real
linux connection.
At least nvidia - - - - well - - - - they're not too worried about
adhering to any standard either - - - why should they - - - they KNOW
they own the market (at least only some 80+%).
My LG 4k monitor is actually made by Goldstar.
The extreme level of profits desired in the industry means that cheap
manufacture wins.
Also means that details that aren't considered crucial - - - -well - -
- they're just ignored!
>
> Take for example the issues with devices using ccd. The lack of linux 
> friendly colour profiles for ccd is one of the largest barriers to linux 
> users in their choices of scanners and cameras etc.
>
> I think in this case a closer look at the EDID for each monitor, assuming 
> they are not exact duplicates of each other, may provide a workable solution. 
> In fact it may be fixed already in a kernel/firmware upgrade.
>
> If that is not possible/desirable then xrandr, get-edid and parse-edid will 
> provide a better understanding of the autogeneration of the display modelines 
> used by Xorg or whatever server is used.

What is so very fascinating is that both get-edid and parse-edid
really aren't that useful.
Its not that the tools don't work but the tools rely on information
provided and that information is all too often not correct.
Changing the incorrect information - - - - well - - - I couldn't find
a way to do that.
Enough of the information sites are themselves outdated (lists 4 and 5
years old really aren't helpful when working with product release in
the last 18 months).
>
> In fact several solutions I have read in the past point to the fact that you 
> can counterfit a manufactures EDID to overcome video tearing and flicker on 
> both linux and windows.

This is possible but to do so means hacking at the kernel level.
I'm not up to that and I'd bet I'm not the only one out there that is
that limited.
>
> I think linux tools for finer grained control of hi-def monitors are out 
> there, you just have to figure out how to stitch them all together.

That would be a reasonable assumption - - - - except that the
divergence between what should be and what is - - - - well - - - to be
kind - - - it seems that there is absolutely no connection.

I would support the original subject  - - - but - - - its only one
more example of our present climate of 'who gives a @#$%^&  about the
customer'.
Am expecting things to only get worse.

But then most of the world now wants to live on a 'stupid phone' or
maybe a laptop - - - in extremis - - - so its a Sysiphisian job of
gargantuan dimensions to effect ANY change.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] Has the graphics-card world gone mad?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 12:33 AM Evan Leibovitch via talk
 wrote:
>
> Yeah, but it won't be about video cards (thankfully).
>
> (FWIW, the issues I am having driving two 4K monitors with an RX 550 exist in 
> both Windows and Linux, suggesting that it's not capable of driving both 
> monitors at full spec. Either I need to dial down the frequency as Russell 
> suggests, or I need a new horsepower card...)
>

Hmmm - - - the card isn't current so finding specs isn't
straightforward - - - but - - - -
https://www.cnet.com/products/xfx-radeon-rx-550-graphics-card-radeon-rx-550-4-gb/
gives a possible reason for the problem - - - - (one sales agency
lists a 'Resolution and refresh rate' and for an RX6900XT said space
is 7680x4320 or an 8k space) the gpu just isn't rated for a 7680x2180
space.

Here I have a 7680x3000 space - - - but - - - - I'm running 2 gpus - -
- that has its own 'problems'!

If I had to rebuild my system (not retaining any monitors) I would
likely go to 3 - 4k monitors and maybe 3 moderate gpus or if finances
were available - - - seldom are - - - 3 mid-upper end - - - - just
checked and even an nvidiia 3090 (brand I will no longer consider)
where there are 5 ports yet only 4 monitors are supported and a space
of 7680x4320@60Hz - - - so a multi-gpu system is what I would need - -
- and it works.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] Partitioning Question

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sat, Mar 27, 2021 at 2:04 PM Jim Ruxton via talk  wrote:
>
> I have a partitioning question I am hoping someone can help with. I have
> 2 hard drives in my laptop , a SSD and a standard hard drive. I dual
> boot Windows and Ubuntu. Here is an image of my partitions from gparted.
> The top is my SSD and the bottom is my other drive.
> https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u7Rcn1_W95Z1PlV122IhPdR1VXJFxkAJ/view?usp=sharing
> 
> .
>
>   My Linux system except for Home (which has it's own partition on the
> other drive) is on the SSD as well as Windows.  I'm running out of room
> on the Windows partition on the SSD. I have other partitions on the
> other drive that has lots of space. Is there a way I can allocate some
> of that to Windows? For example as you can see in the image I have an
> ntfs data partition of 100 Gigs that is almost empty. Any way to take
> some of that and share it with the Windows SSD partition? Otherwise what
> would people recommend to give Windows more space based on what I have
> available. I should also probably move some of my Linux out of the SSD
> but not sure what? I assume if I do move stuff I would need to do it
> from gparted running on a USB stick? Thanks for your suggestions.
>
Dunno if this is a 'good' idea but I've used this moving info from shorter term
storage to longer term storage.

Setup a similar directory on the drive that has space (dunno if M$ will let you
do this) and then use scp to move all the directories and files. Next you setup
a soft link from almost full to the empty (sort of) disk.

I've been doing this from connecting files/directories from the single
hard drive
that is the operating system and the Raid-10 array which is where I want
most everything that I don't want to lose.

This might just be a 'hacky' solution and I really have no idea if it will work
on M$ but it does get the job done.

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Re: [GTALUG] The FOSS world's most famous incel is back...

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 8:46 PM Evan Leibovitch via talk
 wrote:
>
> ... hopefully, not for long.
>
> https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/03/free-software-advocates-seek-removal-of-richard-stallman-and-entire-fsf-board/
>
> I propose that GTALUG as an organization add its name to the petition, 
> already signed by a healthy cross section of the FOSS world.
>
> https://rms-open-letter.github.io/
>

tl;dr
IMHO the complete brouha is political correctness run amok!

I would request that we return to the matter at hand - - - - computers
and computing and its tools and leave the
political correctness to the bureaucratic elite for whom it has become
a driving passion.
One needs to remember that the language of political correctness was
design to allow one to describe how to pick up a turd by its clean
end.
Secondly the bigger the bureaucracy the greater the likelihood that it
is a refuge for the unable, the unwilling and/or the incompetent.
Sloth and indogence are rewarded rather than activity and output.
This present direction is in process of destroying our society with
that end looming very very close.

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Re: [GTALUG] Raspberry Pi

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 11:33 PM Stewart C. Russell via talk
 wrote:
>
> On 2021-03-07 11:14 a.m., D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:
> >
> > And subsidized shipping.  It is often cheaper to mail from China or Hong
> > Kong than from within Toronto.
>
> Canada's mail pricing is iniquitous. I sent a Raspberry Pi Pico (okay,
> and a tiny piezo speaker so it would play the rickroll tune when plugged
> in …) to Halifax, NS the other week. Small padded bag, 35 grams: $18.
>
> I've also had DHL be faster from China than Canada Post's fastest
> service can make it across Toronto.
>

(Re: DHL) Hmm - - - - did you enjoy the insecure (only a http NOT
https) web form you got to use for giving them your information? Did you
'like' the fact that you were set up so that you couldn't clear the shipment
yourself? Did you like the 'nice' fee you were charged for their rather
lackadaisical halding of the same?

I didn't!

Then Canada Post - - - - - dunno how they manage to do it but they are
largely technologically incompetent and mostly unable to get the job
(their mandate) done. In fact - - - they're so incompetent that they
think they're competent (dunno how they manage this but they do!).

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Re: [GTALUG] question re: bug filing

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 7:28 PM Lennart Sorensen via talk
 wrote:
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 03:12:49PM -0800, Dhaval Giani via talk wrote:
> > I also imagine you are paying the debian volunteers for their time to
> > help you with a bug you are hitting. You are joining a community, and
> > it would be great to respect the rules and processes that community
> > follows. Seriously, this is a volunteer effort people are involved in.
> >
> > FWIW, reportbug is *NOT* monitoring your system. It is just populating
> > your bug report with almost everything the maintainer would ask you up
> > first. Such as, are you on the latest package? Can you test with the
> > latest package? Has your bug already been reported? If so, can we add
> > to that report? Are you running the originally shipped package or
> > doing something custom?
>
> Yes the debian bug reporting is a script collecting info.  It can send it
> directly as an email, if email sending is configured on your system, or it
> can save it as a file you can send from an email client by yourself, and
> of course being a text file you can read what it in it before sending it.
>
Reading the 'official' Debian page on 'reportbug' really didn't even seem to
hint that sending anything in myself was possible. There were directions on
setting up this and that and the next thing and everything was supposed to
then 'just happen' (an automatic function). There was also no mention of
any limits in the 'sending'. Like does it function autonomously after the first
time, that seemed to be what was suggested - - - - but - - - - - it
really wasn't
clear.

Any tool that doesn't have clearly defined limits usually doesn't get installed
here. My trust factor in software isn't very high - - - - if it even
exists in all
honesty - - - that's called experience. In fact I have four systems - - - one
main computer and an older server - - - - don't use it much but bought it
looking forward. Then there is a test bed system for each of the first two.
There are still issues that happen because the test bed system for my main
machine isn't multi-gpu and multi-monitor so I 'have' been trying to set up
things to minimize my main system(s) being taken out because of software
but even this trialing system isn't detailed enough. Its starting to seem
like I need to have my trial system be more similar to its counterpart.
I just don't have the time to fight to get things working well after I do a
system upgrade and those issues are taking at least part of my system
down even 3 to 4 days. Kernel 5.0.5 was far worse there were times I
had to do a reboot every few hours - - - hard to get work done when you
need about 1/2 hour to set up things the way you want them and then
within a few hours you need to do it all over again.

So what do I do - - - - no clear path at this point yet except perhaps to
install kernel 5.4.99 (last time I looked at the kernel info) and then run that,
maybe I can keep that kernel and just update everything else - - - dunno.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] question re: bug filing

[o1bigtenor via talk]

> Dhaval
On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 5:14 PM Dhaval Giani  wrote:
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 3:09 PM o1bigtenor via talk  wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 2:17 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk 
> > >
> > > | Each distro has its own way of reporting bugs
> > >
> > > I forgot to mention: google a lot first.  There may be others with the
> > > same problem and perhaps even a solution.
> >
> > 1. You're still using google for a search engine - - - - - wow - - - - can
> > I introduce you to Duckduckgo? So far, at least, they're not not harvesting
> > your data and all your searches.
> > 2. A multi-gpu and multi-monitor system on LInux is considered very extreme
> > fringe. Almost all the upper level coders seem to find that more than one
> > gpu is no fun so they run maybe 2 monitors. Its not the same thing when you
> > get to multi-gpu AND multi-monitor. Those with serious technical expertise
> > just don't seem to run this kind of stuff.
> >
> > The gamers, well they're into monitor latency and not into screen real 
> > estate,
> > what used to be called the power user - - - - in (and on) LInux is 
> > considered
> > not worth wasting time on - - - so finding expertise - - - - -
> > incredibly difficult.
> >
>
> If it is worth your time, maybe you can develop the expertise. We
> welcome you to contribute to the community.
>
Haven't found any interest - - - - in fact mostly the opposite.

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Re: [GTALUG] question re: bug filing

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 5:13 PM Dhaval Giani  wrote:
>
> On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 3:04 PM o1bigtenor via talk  wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 12:53 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > | From: o1bigtenor via talk 
> > >
> > > | Kernel 5.4.0-4 was the last kernel where I didn't find my second
> > > | graphics card not able to move out of sleep.
> > >
> > > Each distro has its own way of reporting bugs.  Here's an unofficial
> > > description of the debian process (untested by me -- I don't use
> > > debian):

> I also imagine you are paying the debian volunteers for their time to
> help you with a bug you are hitting. You are joining a community, and
> it would be great to respect the rules and processes that community
> follows. Seriously, this is a volunteer effort people are involved in.
>
There are a lot of these 'official' volunteers that are working day jobs that
strangely are very very like their volunteer interests.

When I was beating my head against the wall for over 2 months when I
first set up this system the amount of information available or offered to
me was close enough to zero so as to make it a moot point for open source
support.
In the years since I've found that most coder types really don't get into
screen real estate - - - - in fact some serious programmers were still using
19" monitors (within the last year) where I had moved to a 1600x1200 crt
some 20 years ago.
Horses for courses except I've far too often found my screen real estate
far too confining when I'm working on something complicated. All of what
I've found only reinforces the point that what I'm doing is w   ay
out there!

> FWIW, reportbug is *NOT* monitoring your system. It is just populating
> your bug report with almost everything the maintainer would ask you up
> first. Such as, are you on the latest package? Can you test with the
> latest package? Has your bug already been reported? If so, can we add
> to that report? Are you running the originally shipped package or
> doing something custom?
>
Interesting - - - - the one thing that you don't mention and that I think
might be the case here is that the actual bug may be a specific confluence
of things. So even with a complete listing of all of what you have - - - - the
actual problem still isn't visible. I spent a few hours reading through files
in /var/log/  and haven't been able to find anything. Which is why I was
asking for assistance in where to ask. (The assumption seems to be
that I don't have any idea - - - - and maybe I don't . . . .   .)

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] question re: bug filing

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 2:17 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
 wrote:
>
> | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk 
>
> | Each distro has its own way of reporting bugs
>
> I forgot to mention: google a lot first.  There may be others with the
> same problem and perhaps even a solution.

1. You're still using google for a search engine - - - - - wow - - - - can
I introduce you to Duckduckgo? So far, at least, they're not not harvesting
your data and all your searches.
2. A multi-gpu and multi-monitor system on LInux is considered very extreme
fringe. Almost all the upper level coders seem to find that more than one
gpu is no fun so they run maybe 2 monitors. Its not the same thing when you
get to multi-gpu AND multi-monitor. Those with serious technical expertise
just don't seem to run this kind of stuff.

The gamers, well they're into monitor latency and not into screen real estate,
what used to be called the power user - - - - in (and on) LInux is considered
not worth wasting time on - - - so finding expertise - - - - -
incredibly difficult.

Thanks for the ideas.

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] question re: bug filing

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 12:53 PM D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk
 wrote:
>
> | From: o1bigtenor via talk 
>
> | Kernel 5.4.0-4 was the last kernel where I didn't find my second
> | graphics card not able to move out of sleep.
>
> Each distro has its own way of reporting bugs.  Here's an unofficial
> description of the debian process (untested by me -- I don't use
> debian):
>
>   <https://itsfoss.com/bug-report-debian/>
>
> Here's official documentation:
>
>   <https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting>

Hmmm - - - interesting - - - - in this area Debian is sounding a lot
like M$ - - - - "please setup this system so that we can monitor your system
 or . . .   ." and there seems to be no other way to report bugs .
As I don't do that for anyone  - - - - - sounds like I am going to not be on
debian for much longer. (I'm easy - - - - you work with me - - - or
I'm history.)
>
> | I did a system upgrade
> | (using apt) more than once and then one did a 'apt autoremove' where
> | the 5.4.0-4 was removed.
> | This behaviour of my second card not coming out of sleep has become
> | quite annoying - - it takes some 20 minutes to set most everything
> | back up to like it was before the forced reboot.
>
> Is the second card online at this point?
>
> I'd guess that you can re-install 5.4.0-4.

The kernel report has things at 5.4.99 already.

>
> | To me there is a confluence between the kernel, nvidia, nouveau, lxqt,
> | the browsers and likely JS (although the multitudinous nefarious
> | techniques used by various entities to try and control my computer
> | from this last section would likely be disavowed by any and all
> | involved).
>
> Are you using the proprietary nvidia driver?  If so, good luck getting
> support.  With my distro, bug reports are only dealt with if no
> proprietary drivers are loaded.  Ditto for upstream (the kernel
> bugzilla).
>
> Nouveau is not proprietary so it is OK.  But it is pathetic.

Hmm - - - - that really isn't good news.

Oh well sounds like same old same old!

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions!

Regards
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[GTALUG] question re: bug filing

[o1bigtenor via talk]

Greetings

I'm running a computer on Debian testing trying to stay somewhat
current for updates.

Setup using nouveau for my graphics running 2 graphics cards.
LXQT is my desktop 'environment' (if that's the right word??).
I'm also running Opera, Firefox LTS and Vivaldi for browsers.
Tend to have lots of windows and a plethora of tabs open.
Trying to always leave a window with the blank 'home' page to minimize
JS issues.
Running both uBlock and privacy badger trying to reduce my use
information harvesting.

Kernel 5.4.0-4 was the last kernel where I didn't find my second
graphics card not able to move out of sleep. I did a system upgrade
(using apt) more than once and then one did a 'apt autoremove' where
the 5.4.0-4 was removed.
This behaviour of my second card not coming out of sleep has become
quite annoying - - it takes some 20 minutes to set most everything
back up to like it was before the forced reboot.

So where do I complain (bug report)?

To me there is a confluence between the kernel, nvidia, nouveau, lxqt,
the browsers and likely JS (although the multitudinous nefarious
techniques used by various entities to try and control my computer
from this last section would likely be disavowed by any and all
involved).

IMO this is not the kind of behavior that should be allowed for and by
anything called stable (ie Debian is moving to a freeze looking toward
a release of a new version of 'stable').

Suggestions?

TIA
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Re: [GTALUG] micro controllers

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 10:22 AM o1bigtenor  wrote:
>
> Greetings
>
> I'm wanting to use micro controllers in more of an industrial setting.
> Don't want to spend the $$$ to get the officially hardened etc
> etc etc models.
>
> Looking for information - - - - - there's piles on using Arduino,
> Raspberry Pi but they're not really developed for serious use (one
> point - - - - almost always have to add a cape or a shield to get real
> connectivity - - - - don't need the the hp waste that's RPi so I"d
> rather not use that . . .   .)
> Trying to find other ucontroller boards - - - - can find plenty of SoB
> - - - - but not boards.
> Hoping to use open source tools for the programming and control.
>
> Any suggestions as to where to look for this kind of stuff?
>

I'm not sure I'm doing this right - - - - no - - - - I"m not answering my own
question (have had to do that a few times - - - grin) but there are some
great ideas in the thread - - - - but - - - - .

Yes I had red of the RPi Pico.
RPi is rather interesting in that you can buy quantity 1 of the board
reasonably and then if you want more than 1 - - - - - well you have to buy
their cables and wall wart and and and making the purchase not so
reasonable!
One project - - - - there have been questions over what I'm trying to do
- - - sorta like this. If anyone knows what a gang saw is then you have
some idea of what I'm doing.

I want to have one electric motor for moving like a large mass of material
forwards (and back if I wish), then there is a higher hp motor to power a
whole bunch (2 m worth) of blades and then there is a third moderately
sized motor that moves the gang setup up and down. The gang is turning
at a fairly high rpm (7500 rpm in the prototype and 10k in the design) and
moving quite quickly, 2 m in under 10 to 12 seconds. So the load on the
gang is monitored so that if the load moves over say 103% of rated that
the gang movement speed is slowed or if the load is under 80% that the
gang movement speed is increased. So there, planning is anyway, a vfd
on all three items - - - - with a ucontroller per motor (maybe I don't need
to do one on each- - - - dunno) and the whole being controlled from some
small system. This system may be working for as much as hours per time
and multiple times per day. Overloads/heating will also be monitored.
This is the kind of equipment that I don't want to have to babysit but it
must work.

(another project is a small animal feeder - - - weighing in and out,
body temperature, control the mixing, id reading water heating, - - - may
not sound to complicated but there would be at least 6 or 7 different
functions that need to work is a particular sequence - - - - - ja - - - I know
I'se more than a little touched - - - grin!)

So I have some Arduino kind of boards here - - - - they may work but
they need added cape for this and shield for that. Looked in PLCs and
in some ways they are more robust - - - - but pricing - - - - ouch! It is
possible to get an arduino clone for likely under $5 can w/o shipping
on the web - - - - a cheap plc is $85 usd and a good one might be
some $250 USD.

Does that help point more as to the issues?

I can find a lot of information on the SoC for the umpteen different variants
of ucontrollers. Sure can't find much info for boards - - - maybe large
companies can roll their own designs  - - - - but I'm hoping that there is
some info hidden someplace for smaller companies. I just haven't been
able to find anything - - - yet!

Thanks to one and all for the suggestions and assistance
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[GTALUG] micro controllers

[o1bigtenor via talk]

Greetings

I'm wanting to use micro controllers in more of an industrial setting.
Don't want to spend the $$$ to get the officially hardened etc
etc etc models.

Looking for information - - - - - there's piles on using Arduino,
Raspberry Pi but they're not really developed for serious use (one
point - - - - almost always have to add a cape or a shield to get real
connectivity - - - - don't need the the hp waste that's RPi so I"d
rather not use that . . .   .)
Trying to find other ucontroller boards - - - - can find plenty of SoB
- - - - but not boards.
Hoping to use open source tools for the programming and control.

Any suggestions as to where to look for this kind of stuff?

Am I wasting my time? (I hope not!!)

TIA

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] How do you send out email?

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Sun, Feb 7, 2021 at 9:30 PM Slackrat via talk  wrote:
>
>
> On 02/05/2021 08:28 AM, Peter King via talk wrote:
>
> On Thu, Feb 04, 2021 at 03:20:37PM +, William Park via talk wrote:
>
>
>The solution that worked for Fetchmail is not working for Sendmail.  I
>guess, it's time for upgrade to Postfix.  But, I suspect, I'll have the
>same problem.
>So, bigger question for you guys...
>- How do you send out email?  via Postfix/Sendmail?  Or, via
>Thunderbird?
>
> My Mail is currently sent out via Thunderbird.
>
> After using Emacs/GNUS for many years I have finally had to abandon it for 
> mail unfortunately because at 81 years my eyes cannot handle the tiny print 
> on the menu bars. Claws I tried but although it will automatically bring in 
> GNUS mails I abandoned > it for several reasons.

I, for one, would be interested in knowing why you did not continue with Claws.

TIA
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Re: [GTALUG] Fwd: HISTORIC opportunity for cheaper Internet in Toronto

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 7:05 AM Alvin Starr via talk  wrote:
>
> On 1/28/21 7:18 PM, James Knott via talk wrote:
>
> On 2021-01-28 5:45 p.m., David Collier-Brown via talk wrote:
>
> A proposal for a community broadband, in Toronto!
>
>
> Several years ago, Toronto Hydro had the same idea.  I  believe they sold 
> their fibre to Cogeco.  Back when I was with Unitel, working with Rogers, 
> we'd use Hydro fibre to reach customers in the downtown core.
>
> Not sure of steps in between but Cogeco ended up with Toronto Hydro Telecom 
> and bundled it with Peer1 which they recently sold to 
> https://www.digitalcolony.com/ and its now called Aptum.
> https://aptum.com/newsroom/cogeco-peer-1-acquistion-by-digital-colony-closes/
>
> So a large chunk of Ontario's telecom infrastructure is in the hands of  a 
> bunch of fund managers.
> I have a feeling that will not end well for Ontario users of telecom services.

Of course not - - - - but - - - - the fund managers will make a crap
load of money in the process.

Bell bought MTS - - - - there were promises of some $4+ billion for
infrastructure improvements.
Don't think I've seen any improvements - - -rather the opposite in
fact - - - - things are getting
suckier!
How can you tell when a mega corp exec or a politician are lying - - -
- are their lips moving?

Same old same old!
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Re: [GTALUG] Odd VLC problem

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 10:24 AM Giles Orr via talk  wrote:
>
> On Mon, 25 Jan 2021 at 02:23, Evan Leibovitch via talk  
> wrote:
> > Last week, in an attempt to make my desktop more readable to my ageing 
> > eyes, I bought a $40 stand and set up my monitors vertically (see 1st pic).
> >
> > Changing the KDE setup to accommodate this (Kubuntu 20.04 LTS) was easy, 
> > and all of my apps seem to work fine with the new setup ... except VLC.
> >
> > VLC no longer works the way it used to.
> >
> > Videos will now play only if I decouple the video window from the VLC 
> > interface ("Integrate video in interface" must be unchecked). And now if I 
> > try to resize the interface, it visually "stutters" (see second photo) and 
> > remains stuttered in this form until I resize the window again.
> >
> > I have tried multiple options for video output with no change in behaviour. 
> > Again, the videos display fine but only if I separate the video window from 
> > the interface window.  Resizing the video window works fine. Also, videos 
> > displayed inside the browser (ie Plex and YouTube) work fine.
> >
> > All suggestions are appreciated.
>
> Hi Evan.
>
> I apologize for not directly addressing the problem you're asking
> about, but I'll offer a couple possible solutions.
>
> If you're not tied to 'vlc', try 'mpv' as a movie player.  I have both
> installed and used vlc as my main video program for many years, but
> now mostly lean to mpv.  Can't promise it won't have issues with the
> layout, but I think it's worth a try.
>
> The "aging eyes" issue is one I'm familiar with: my desktop now has a
> 43"(!) primary monitor that's flanked by a couple vertical monitors
> (those are different computers, and not always on).  Re-arranging the
> login screens to be vertical can be a real PITA depending on which
> login manager it is, otherwise it works quite well.  If money (and
> desk real estate) aren't an issue, I would recommend seeing if you can
> find a big-ass monitor in the 40" range - I love that thing.  Your
> eyes will thank you.  I was lucky though: it's actually a "monitor"
> rather than a repurposed TV, it's 4K, and I managed to get it for
> under $600 a couple years ago.  (Looking at current prices of 40"+
> monitors, I'm thinking I should be using the phrase "spectacularly
> lucky.")  That's not a popular market segment, so such items are thin
> on the ground and/or quite expensive.  If you're okay with a TV (I'm
> not clear on the disadvantages - distorted colour palettes, high
> contrast, limited ports?), those are available at lower prices.
>

I'm presently fighting with videogen (mode utility) trying to find some way
tp dp exactly this. Got the TV for just over $500 including all the taxes and
sundry other 'fees'. I want to use it as one more
monitor - - - - except EDID is not working so I'm trying to find a way to
develop a custom modeline then I will have 3840x2160_30 - - - - likely
quite good enough for CAD work.
(Any ideas/suggestions please let me know (on knees begging!!!))

Regards

Regards
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Re: [GTALUG] Odd VLC problem

[o1bigtenor via talk]

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 1:23 AM Evan Leibovitch via talk
 wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Last week, in an attempt to make my desktop more readable to my ageing eyes, 
> I bought a $40 stand and set up my monitors vertically (see 1st pic).
>
> Changing the KDE setup to accommodate this (Kubuntu 20.04 LTS) was easy, and 
> all of my apps seem to work fine with the new setup ... except VLC.
>

Quite some years ago I chose to have more than even 2 monitors - - - -
I do have one that is in portrait mode and absolutely love it for
reading pdfs!
(So I 'get' at least somewhat of your gist - - - grin!).
I use LXQT and I've not found such behavior - - - - -maybe check that out.

Regards
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