Re: [GTALUG] No keyboard at boot?

[Peter King via talk]

The consensus seems to be that the Lenovo board is a middling-range B550 
AM4 board, so there are lots of options; people have reported success in 
swapping it out for models from Asus, Gigabyte, MSI, and perhaps 
others.  I ordered a Gigabyte B550M DS3H AC AM4, which several people 
said worked well -- the only drawback is that the connectors for the 
gamer mod lights need extensions; since I don't care about the lights, 
that was no bother.  (Oh, and a CPU fan: somehow the Lenovo one doesn't 
fit in the normal sockets.)  Still waiting for that motherboard to come 
in, but at least I swapped in another computer so I can get work done 
until the MB arrives and I have time to do the swap.


Oddly enough, if on the ailing Lenovo Legion T5 26AMR the heat sensor 
alarms are turned off, now the only sign that anything is awry is that 
it won't hold the time/date.  (It isn't the battery, which I've changed 
twice; it's one of the common symptoms.)  I check the internal 
temperatures and they are fine; apparently the motherboard thinks that 
the fans aren't working, but they certainly are -- I can see them 
spinning.  Go figure.



On 10/26/23 03:00, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:


| From: Peter King via talk

| Apparently the problems/errors/failures I reported are a known problem that
| Lenovo has refused to address:
|http://reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/ztvro4/lenovo_legion_5_t5_are_seemingly_bricked_with_no/

Wow!  That's truly terrible.  And very hard to understand how Lenovo
could let this bleed on.

Reading that, it makes me wonder if you could do a firmware update
every month to ward off the bug.  But I cannot think of a rational
mechanism that would make that work.

Does the T5 victim community have a preferred replacement motherboard?
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Re: [GTALUG] No keyboard at boot?

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: Peter King via talk 

| Apparently the problems/errors/failures I reported are a known problem that
| Lenovo has refused to address:
| 
http://reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/ztvro4/lenovo_legion_5_t5_are_seemingly_bricked_with_no/

Wow!  That's truly terrible.  And very hard to understand how Lenovo
could let this bleed on.

Reading that, it makes me wonder if you could do a firmware update
every month to ward off the bug.  But I cannot think of a rational
mechanism that would make that work.

Does the T5 victim community have a preferred replacement motherboard?
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Re: [GTALUG] No keyboard at boot?

[Peter King via talk]

Apparently the problems/errors/failures I reported are a known problem 
that Lenovo has refused to address: 
http://reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/ztvro4/lenovo_legion_5_t5_are_seemingly_bricked_with_no/


This is bad enough, and widespread enough, that owners of these 
computers trying to bring a class-action lawsuit against Lenovo: 
https://topclassactions.com/lawsuit-settlements/consumer-products/electronics/lenovo-class-action-claims-some-desktops-contain-severe-freezing-crashing-defect/


There is a genuine hardware problem with the motherboard, curable only 
by swapping out the motherboard for a non-Lenovo equivalent.


So, I am simply going to swap the motherboard, take it as a bad decision 
to have bought this computer, and never do business with Lenovo again.  
A pity; I have used and enjoyed the ThinkPad series for a long time.  
But no more dealings with a company that acts like this.



On 10/25/23 16:21, D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk wrote:

| From: Peter King via talk

| Booted from a USB with Arch Linux on it; chroot into the now-working computer;
| ran a system update (massive: 500+ packages).  Something in there -- likely
| the new kernel and firmware -- fixed the keyboard problem.  So I didn't have
| to reinstall, just get far enough in to do an upgrade.

Wow.  Heroic measures.

| I now have a functional computer to replace the Lenovo T5.  For those of you
| keeping score, I *still* do not have the replacement MB I ordered from Canada
| Computers on 27 September.

I'm a broken record: I'd cancel the MB order and get Lenovo Warranty
service.


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   CANADA

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Re: [GTALUG] No keyboard at boot?

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: Peter King via talk 

| Booted from a USB with Arch Linux on it; chroot into the now-working computer;
| ran a system update (massive: 500+ packages).  Something in there -- likely
| the new kernel and firmware -- fixed the keyboard problem.  So I didn't have
| to reinstall, just get far enough in to do an upgrade.

Wow.  Heroic measures.

| I now have a functional computer to replace the Lenovo T5.  For those of you
| keeping score, I *still* do not have the replacement MB I ordered from Canada
| Computers on 27 September.

I'm a broken record: I'd cancel the MB order and get Lenovo Warranty
service.

I have to admit my experience with warranty service hasn't been
stellar.  Problems still being resolved.  Here are the ones I've dealt
with today:

- an Asus notebook died (lights on but not POST).  Sent it in.  They
  now say that their are going to transfer the patient to the US.  In
  return for the inconvenience, they are extending the warranty 90 days.
  I hope that isn't an indication of how long they will have my
  machine.

- HP Aero with flaky WiFi.  I know how to make it work in Linux
  (suppressing sleep modes on the card) but I think that that impairs
  battery life.  In Windows, it is unreliable.  Talked for hours with
  support, getting nowhere.  Fun fact: asked ChatGPT (through Edge or
  Bing on Windows).  It came up with an answer that was congruent
  with my beliefs -- impressive.  Support Chat fails now.  Grrr.

- got a Dyson refurbished ed vacuum in July.  One broken part and one
  missing part.  They sent a replacement for the broken part promptly.
  But the missing part was out of stock.  I had to phone them today to
  remind them to send it to me.  CSR didn't know what a "wand clip"
  was (neither do I -- I've never had one).  After perhaps half an
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Re: [GTALUG] No keyboard at boot?

[Peter King via talk]

Booted from a USB with Arch Linux on it; chroot into the now-working 
computer; ran a system update (massive: 500+ packages).  Something in 
there -- likely the new kernel and firmware -- fixed the keyboard 
problem.  So I didn't have to reinstall, just get far enough in to do an 
upgrade.


I now have a functional computer to replace the Lenovo T5.  For those of 
you keeping score, I *still* do not have the replacement MB I ordered 
from Canada Computers on 27 September.  (And, yes, when I ordered it 
they listed it as in stock.)  I got an email from them yesterday telling 
me they hoped to have the order ready in a week.  I got another email 
from them today asking if I wanted to cancel my order.  I am very 
tempted to do so and yank the components and build up a new computer 
from scratch at this point.



On 10/10/23 14:29, Peter King via talk wrote:


The saga continues.

While waiting for a replacement motherboard for my Lenovo T5, I hauled 
out a computer I had taken out of service about 16 months ago to have 
a working machine until I finally can install the motherboard.  But 
here's the thing. When it boots up, I can use the keyboard and mouse 
at the BIOS screen and through most of the process -- but near the 
end, after enabling the network fails, it loses the keyboard.  The 
mouse stays connected.  So I get a login screen but no way to talk to 
it.  Same problem using other keyboards.  Eventually I figured out how 
to boot from a USB stick, and that gets all the way up with the 
keyboard, so it's something odd in the setup on the computer itself.  
I haven't tried to ssh in, because at the moment it tries to boot into 
a static ethernet address which isn't available, and so network 
connectivity fails.


The system runs Arch Linux.  The "easy" thing to do is just re-install 
Arch and start with a clean slate, which is likely what I'll do, but 
if anyone knows a quick and dirty fix I'd at least be able to save 
some configuration information from the computer.  (Yes, I can do that 
from an Arch install USB by mounting / chrooting into it, but I'd 
rather understand the problem first.)


Any idea what gives?  Obviously a module for running the keyboard 
isn't being loaded somewhere...



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Department of Philosophy
170 St. George Street #521
The University of Toronto  (416)-946-3170 ofc
Toronto, ON  M5R 2M8
   CANADA

http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/

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Re: [GTALUG] No keyboard at boot?

[BCLUG via talk]

Peter King via talk wrote on 2023-10-11 08:50:


Checked the logs, which wasn't helpful; there was no persistent log


Unsure of your setup, but this may be useful for someone:

## See the selection of previous boot logs:
journalctl --list-boots

## Check the logs from the *previous* boot:
journalctl --boot -1

## To check the *previous* boot logs for udev and postfix
## (random examples):
journalctl --boot -1 --unit udev* --unit postfix



## If booted from USB and wanting to check previous non-USB boot,
## add a --directory pointing to the HD:
journalctl --directory /mnt/myHD/var/log/journal/... --boot -1



etc.


Was very concerned about "systemd is using binary logging, this breaks 
everything!" way back when, however...


Turns out, journalctl is pretty powerful and has some really great features.

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Re: [GTALUG] No keyboard at boot?

[Peter King via talk]

I did change the battery.  It still won’t hold time/date.  Hence the technical 
term ‘flaky’.

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 11, 2023, at 1:56 PM, Aurelian Melinte via talk  wrote:


On 11/10/2023 11:50, Peter King via talk wrote:

This, mind you, to get a replacement machine for the one with the flaky 
motherboard (which runs just fine once it has booted as long as you reset 
time/date and don't try to run X).

Change the BIOS battery for the old MB? I would expect the BIOS to beep at you 
for a dead battery but time issues suggest me only the battery as a cause

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Re: [GTALUG] No keyboard at boot?

[Aurelian Melinte via talk]

On 11/10/2023 11:50, Peter King via talk wrote:


This, mind you, to get a replacement machine for the one with the
flaky motherboard (which runs just fine once it has booted as long as
you reset time/date and don't try to run X).


Change the BIOS battery for the old MB? I would expect the BIOS to beep
at you for a dead battery but time issues suggest me only the battery as
a cause

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Re: [GTALUG] No keyboard at boot?

[Peter King via talk]

Checked the logs, which wasn't helpful; there was no persistent log, and 
I can only maneuver when booting from the USB stick -- which doesn't 
have the problem in the first place -- so no easy way to see what is or 
isn't loading when there is a problem.  Found a suggestion on Reddit 
that the problem might be in changes to vconsole.conf, specifically to 
use a private keymap, so I changed that file to longer use a private 
keymap, but it didn't help.  I also tried changing the boot network 
configuration, and the only result of that seems to be a more complete 
freeze, so now the computer doesn't even boot to a login prompt.  I 
think it's time for a full reset of the BIOS to the defaults, pull all 
the installed hard disks, and do a complete wipe/reinstall.  There is a 
reason the machine was out of service.


This, mind you, to get a replacement machine for the one with the flaky 
motherboard (which runs just fine once it has booted as long as you 
reset time/date and don't try to run X).


On 10/10/23 14:39, Aurelian Melinte via talk wrote:
Try unplugging the keyboard then plug it back in. If it is USB, try 
changing the port. Try another keyboard. Try booting an USB stick with 
some other live distro then peek into the Arch logs.

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Re: [GTALUG] No keyboard at boot?

[D. Hugh Redelmeier via talk]

| From: Peter King via talk 

| I haven't tried to ssh in, because at the moment it tries to boot
| into a static ethernet address which isn't available, and so network
| connectivity fails.

When I have my ethernet ports configured in an inconvenient way, I
have plugged in a USB ethernet dongle and SSHed in through that.
Usually the dongle will have a default configuration that is
functional in an ordinarly LAN.

Where is the inconveniet network configuration?  Do you use
NetworkManager (config seems to be in /etc/NetworkManager) or the old
scripts (/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts on some system).  If you can
hide that obsolete configuration, you might be ahead.
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Re: [GTALUG] No keyboard at boot?

[Peter King via talk]

Thanks.  Tried unplugging/plugging, changing ports, other keyboards; 
still nothing.  Will try looking at the logs when I'm back at the 
machine -- that is a good thought that just hadn't occurred to me.


On 10/10/23 14:39, Aurelian Melinte via talk wrote:
Try unplugging the keyboard then plug it back in. If it is USB, try 
changing the port. Try another keyboard. Try booting an USB stick with 
some other live distro then peek into the Arch logs.


On 10/10/2023 14:29, Peter King via talk wrote:


The saga continues.

While waiting for a replacement motherboard for my Lenovo T5, I 
hauled out a computer I had taken out of service about 16 months ago 
to have a working machine until I finally can install the 
motherboard.  But here's the thing.  When it boots up, I can use the 
keyboard and mouse at the BIOS screen and through most of the process 
-- but near the end, after enabling the network fails, it loses the 
keyboard.  The mouse stays connected.  So I get a login screen but no 
way to talk to it.  Same problem using other keyboards.  Eventually I 
figured out how to boot from a USB stick, and that gets all the way 
up with the keyboard, so it's something odd in the setup on the 
computer itself.  I haven't tried to ssh in, because at the moment it 
tries to boot into a static ethernet address which isn't available, 
and so network connectivity fails.


The system runs Arch Linux.  The "easy" thing to do is just 
re-install Arch and start with a clean slate, which is likely what 
I'll do, but if anyone knows a quick and dirty fix I'd at least be 
able to save some configuration information from the computer.  (Yes, 
I can do that from an Arch install USB by mounting / chrooting into 
it, but I'd rather understand the problem first.)


Any idea what gives?  Obviously a module for running the keyboard 
isn't being loaded somewhere...



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Toronto, ON  M5R 2M8
   CANADA

http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/

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Re: [GTALUG] No keyboard at boot?

[Aurelian Melinte via talk]

Try unplugging the keyboard then plug it back in. If it is USB, try
changing the port. Try another keyboard. Try booting an USB stick with
some other live distro then peek into the Arch logs.

On 10/10/2023 14:29, Peter King via talk wrote:


The saga continues.

While waiting for a replacement motherboard for my Lenovo T5, I hauled
out a computer I had taken out of service about 16 months ago to have
a working machine until I finally can install the motherboard.  But
here's the thing. When it boots up, I can use the keyboard and mouse
at the BIOS screen and through most of the process -- but near the
end, after enabling the network fails, it loses the keyboard.  The
mouse stays connected.  So I get a login screen but no way to talk to
it.  Same problem using other keyboards.  Eventually I figured out how
to boot from a USB stick, and that gets all the way up with the
keyboard, so it's something odd in the setup on the computer itself. 
I haven't tried to ssh in, because at the moment it tries to boot into
a static ethernet address which isn't available, and so network
connectivity fails.

The system runs Arch Linux.  The "easy" thing to do is just re-install
Arch and start with a clean slate, which is likely what I'll do, but
if anyone knows a quick and dirty fix I'd at least be able to save
some configuration information from the computer.  (Yes, I can do that
from an Arch install USB by mounting / chrooting into it, but I'd
rather understand the problem first.)

Any idea what gives?  Obviously a module for running the keyboard
isn't being loaded somewhere...


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[GTALUG] No keyboard at boot?

[Peter King via talk]

The saga continues.

While waiting for a replacement motherboard for my Lenovo T5, I hauled 
out a computer I had taken out of service about 16 months ago to have a 
working machine until I finally can install the motherboard.  But here's 
the thing.  When it boots up, I can use the keyboard and mouse at the 
BIOS screen and through most of the process -- but near the end, after 
enabling the network fails, it loses the keyboard.  The mouse stays 
connected.  So I get a login screen but no way to talk to it.  Same 
problem using other keyboards.  Eventually I figured out how to boot 
from a USB stick, and that gets all the way up with the keyboard, so 
it's something odd in the setup on the computer itself.  I haven't tried 
to ssh in, because at the moment it tries to boot into a static ethernet 
address which isn't available, and so network connectivity fails.


The system runs Arch Linux.  The "easy" thing to do is just re-install 
Arch and start with a clean slate, which is likely what I'll do, but if 
anyone knows a quick and dirty fix I'd at least be able to save some 
configuration information from the computer.  (Yes, I can do that from 
an Arch install USB by mounting / chrooting into it, but I'd rather 
understand the problem first.)


Any idea what gives?  Obviously a module for running the keyboard isn't 
being loaded somewhere...
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