Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-03-06 Thread Alvaro P.
Same happens to me. It works and looks great until I show my boss or client. Alvaro tedd wrote: At 10:44 AM -0500 3/6/07, csnyder wrote: On 3/5/07, Paul Houle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It always seems that it's the gatekeepers of life who run funky web browsers. It will be the people at your

Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-03-06 Thread Allen Shaw
tedd wrote: And don't forget that the first time you show anyone anything you've programmed, it's going to fail regardless of how many times you have tested it. Or, at least that's been my experience -- but perhaps I'm the only SOB that this happens to. :-) I wish you were... -- Allen Shaw P

Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-03-06 Thread tedd
At 10:44 AM -0500 3/6/07, csnyder wrote: On 3/5/07, Paul Houle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It always seems that it's the gatekeepers of life who run funky web browsers. It will be the people at your next job interview, the venture capitalists, the thesis advisor, the people on the grant committee

Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-03-06 Thread Cliff Hirsch
On Tue, 6 Mar 2007 10:44:34 -0500, csnyder wrote > On 3/5/07, Paul Houle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It always seems that it's the gatekeepers of life who run > > funky web browsers. It will be the people at your next job interview, > > the venture capitalists, the thesis advisor, the people on

Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-03-06 Thread csnyder
On 3/5/07, Paul Houle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: It always seems that it's the gatekeepers of life who run funky web browsers. It will be the people at your next job interview, the venture capitalists, the thesis advisor, the people on the grant committee, who have cookies or Javascript turned of

Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-03-05 Thread Paul Houle
Cliff Hirsch wrote: Whatever happened to building a robust PHP application and only then layering on the client-side enhancements? To me this lack of progressive fall-back is just laziness, arrogance, or the victim of the usual time pressures. This isn’t an opinionated group — right?! So I c

Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-02-28 Thread csnyder
On 2/26/07, Chris Shiflett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What's the best-of-breed solution for changing a regular form submission button to initiate an Ajax call instead of submitting the form? I've got a hacky solution that involves rewriting the button, adding an onsubmit() action, and trying to

Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-02-26 Thread Chris Shiflett
Chris Snyder wrote: > I'm a big fan of the "unobtrusive" approach, where you build > interfaces in Plain Old HTML + CSS and then use wicked DOM > mojo to convert them into rich applications on the client. If > Javascript isn't available, everything still works but with a > lot more clicking. This

Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-02-26 Thread inforequest
Cliff Hirsch cliff-at-pinestream.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote: On 2/26/07 6:28 PM, "csnyder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 2/26/07, Cliff Hirsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm seeing more and more applications that simply do not work if JavaScript is turned off. In fact, I

Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-02-26 Thread Cliff Hirsch
On 2/26/07 6:28 PM, "csnyder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 2/26/07, Cliff Hirsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> I'm seeing more and more applications that simply do not work if JavaScript >> is turned off. In fact, I'm looking at purchasing a slick shopping cart that >> seems great, but I t

Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-02-26 Thread csnyder
On 2/26/07, Cliff Hirsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm seeing more and more applications that simply do not work if JavaScript is turned off. In fact, I'm looking at purchasing a slick shopping cart that seems great, but I think the lack of progressive fallback is a show stopper. I'm a big f

Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-02-26 Thread inforequest
Cliff Hirsch cliff-at-pinestream.com |nyphp dev/internal group use| wrote: I’m seeing more and more applications that simply do not work if JavaScript is turned off. In fact, I’m looking at purchasing a slick shopping cart that seems great, but I think the lack of progressive fallback is a sho

Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-02-26 Thread tedd
At 9:26 AM -0500 2/26/07, Cliff Hirsch wrote: I'm seeing more and more applications that simply do not work if JavaScript is turned off. In fact, I'm looking at purchasing a slick shopping cart that seems great, but I think the lack of progressive fallback is a show stopper. Whatever happened

Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-02-26 Thread Jiju Thomas Mathew
Hi If we are writing howtos and documentations, we can avoid javascript, but when doing coding for an earning, we need buyers, where the real money is.. Just tell me now a days how many of you will create a webpage which will look like a standard howto documentation? With just Hx, b, p, dl, ul

Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-02-26 Thread michael
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 10:08:19 -0500 "Mark Withington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I agree. With absolutely no data to back this up, I bet any "serious" > web user has JavaScript on and probably [relatively] up-to-date on > their browser version. On the contrary.. "serious" web users have it tur

RE: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-02-26 Thread Urb LeJeune
I usually use http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp as a rough guide. It shows 94% JavaScript on, 6% off for January 2007. Be a little careful generalizing this number as applied to shopping cards. In many cases, JaveScript is off for people coming from behind corpora

Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-02-26 Thread Cliff Hirsch
/browsers_stats.asp as a rough > guide. It shows 94% JavaScript on, 6% off for January 2007. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Mark Withington > Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 10:08 AM > To: NYPHP Talk > Subjec

RE: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-02-26 Thread Andy Dirnberger
Talk Subject: Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back I agree. With absolutely no data to back this up, I bet any "serious" web user has JavaScript on and probably [relatively] up-to-date on their browser version. So, like the proverbial Willy Su

Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-02-26 Thread Brian Dailey
I have a split opinion on this. I've set up a lot of applications where javascript really was required for some things that I wanted to do. Sometimes it really just isn't an option. However, I think it's good practice to at least *warn* the user that javascript is required. This is really true

Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-02-26 Thread Mark Withington
I agree. With absolutely no data to back this up, I bet any "serious" web user has JavaScript on and probably [relatively] up-to-date on their browser version. So, like the proverbial Willy Sutton reply, [Why do you rob banks, Willy?] "Cause that's where the money is" Why do we write code with

Re: [nyphp-talk] Thoughts on using JavaScript with no progressive fall-back

2007-02-26 Thread Kenneth Downs
Cliff Hirsch wrote: I'm seeing more and more applications that simply do not work if JavaScript is turned off. In fact, I'm looking at purchasing a slick shopping cart that seems great, but I think the lack of progressive fallback is a show stopper. Whatever happened to building a robust PHP