Re: [OSM-legal-talk] some interesting points from the bing license

2010-12-02 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 3:47 PM, Steve Coast st...@asklater.com wrote: On 12/01/2010 02:31 PM, David Groom wrote: - Original Message - From: Anthony o...@inbox.org Isn't http://opengeodata.org/microsoft-imagery-details the prior written consent from Microsoft. I'm not sure

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Bing - Terms of Use

2010-12-02 Thread Anthony
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: I think it's the fact that we have an actual documentation of the permission to trace. Yahoo's is pretty much just an unwritten/informal agreement. Except that at the point we don't. At this point, we have an unclear

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New phrase in section 2

2010-12-02 Thread Anthony
On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 6:42 PM, David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.net wrote: - Original Message - From: Anthony o...@inbox.org I have no idea why it was actually put there, but one positive thing it does (besides nullifying the ODbL) is that it puts us all on an equal footing with OSMF

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] some interesting points from the bing license

2010-12-01 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 6:34 AM, David Groom revi...@pacific-rim.net wrote: Whereabouts is the prior written consent from Microsoft which would enable us to trace and thus create derivative works? David [1]  http://opengeodata.org/microsoft-imagery-details Isn't

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New phrase in section 2

2010-12-01 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 6:57 PM, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: On 12/01/2010 11:40 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, fx99 wrote: 2 Rights granted. Subject to Section 3 and 4 below, You hereby grant to OSMF and any party that receives Your Contents a worldwide, . can somebody explain

Re: [OSM-talk] routing across open spaces

2010-11-30 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Robert Kaiser ka...@kairo.at wrote: Robin Paulson schrieb: or am i missing a tag? do i need to tag parks, etc. with area=yes foot=yes, access=yes or would that be a case of tagging for the routing engine Note that in some park, stepping on the grass is

Re: [OSM-talk] routing across open spaces

2010-11-30 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:29 AM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 15:30 +, Ed Avis wrote: As a rough rule, leisure=park and landuse=grass could be considered walkable, unless tagged access=no or access=private. You may also find timed access restrictions

Re: [OSM-talk] routing across open spaces

2010-11-30 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 5:22 PM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 11:43 -0500, Anthony wrote: On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 11:29 AM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 15:30 +, Ed Avis wrote: As a rough rule, leisure=park and landuse

Re: [OSM-talk] routing across open spaces

2010-11-30 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 1:24 PM, Felix Hartmann extremecar...@gmail.com wrote: I don't think routing over areas will ever work well. It might work for 2-3 areas and that is already really difficult for calculation. Just routing onto an open space is no problem, but calculating a route over a

Re: [OSM-talk] routing across open spaces

2010-11-30 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.com wrote: but it's getting away form the point: parks are only one implementation/manifestation of the situation. i'm enquiring about routing across areas in general, and whether anyone does/will do it. I don't think anyone

Re: [OSM-talk] routing across open spaces

2010-11-30 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Just take the n ways which connect to the area, and run http://www.loria.fr/~lazard/Publications/Curvature-constrained_shortest_path_in_a_convex_polygon/Curvature-constrained_shortest_path_in_a_convex_polygon.html Actually

Re: [OSM-talk] routing across open spaces

2010-11-30 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 6:57 PM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: On Wed, 2010-12-01 at 12:01 +1300, Robin Paulson wrote: That's nonsense.  A way does not show a right of passage.  A particularly tagged way shows a right of passage.  And a park is a particularly tagged way. No,

Re: [OSM-talk] routing across open spaces

2010-11-30 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 December 2010 13:14, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: I'd love it.  It's a feature I'm quite looking forward to.  One day OSM will be able to route me from Linkwood Avenue to Pine Bay Drive through the park (http

Re: [OSM-talk] routing across open spaces

2010-11-30 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 7:48 PM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: On Tue, 2010-11-30 at 19:14 -0500, Anthony wrote: That's nonsense.  A way does not show a right of passage.  A particularly tagged way shows a right of passage.  And a park is a particularly tagged way

Re: [OSM-talk] routing across open spaces

2010-11-30 Thread Anthony
One day OSM will be able to route me from Linkwood Avenue to Pine Bay Drive through the park (http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=28.07187lon=-82.550402zoom=18layers=M), saving me 50 minutes of walking. Imagine if you tried to save 50min by getting routed across Albert Park[1].  

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Why is the data protected?

2010-11-29 Thread Anthony
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 2:51 PM, Andreas Perstinger andreas.perstin...@gmx.net wrote: Isn't the content the users provide just facts (at least the coordinates, some tags could be questionable)? I don't think it's quite that simple. If I draw a complex intersection on a piece of paper, that's

Re: [talk-au] Fwd: license change map

2010-11-28 Thread Anthony
On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 6:02 AM, Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote: I can see the legal line of thought for paying to belong to a company / organisation. I can too. Annual membership dues provide a mechanism for a member to 1) show who they are (thereby making it more difficult to obtain

Re: [talk-au] Fwd: license change map

2010-11-27 Thread Anthony
On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Steve Bennett wrote: Elizabeth Dodd ed...@billiau.net wrote: 1. OSMF needs a written out strategic plan. Hear, hear. The equivalent of Patches welcome in this case is: OSMF is a democratically elected body.

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CT, section 3

2010-11-26 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 7:56 AM, Matthias Julius li...@julius-net.net wrote: The LWG say that the new CT are a sub-set of CT 1.0. They clearly are not, as of the 1.2 draft. Among other things, the section 2 grants are expanded, to include database right or any related right.

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CT, section 3

2010-11-26 Thread Anthony
Maybe we should work on that bit then. Not give the individual an opt-out right, but instead force OSMF to publish. Something like: As a condition of this agreement, OSMF agrees not only to license the database under the licenses given, but also to make the database publicly available or so.

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Database and its contents

2010-11-26 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 4:08 AM, Matthias Julius li...@julius-net.net wrote: No, a license cannot protect any work or restrict what one can do with the work.  It can only give permissions.  Of course, these permissions might have some conditions (like BY-SA).  The protection comes from the law

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Database and its contents

2010-11-26 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 6:15 AM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: Rob Myers r...@... writes: What seems to throw people when we are talking about geodata in a database rather than a collection of poems/photos/songs is the granularity of the contents. But it doesn't really matter whether we

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CT, section 3

2010-11-26 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Picture yourself next to 100 people who have come after you, who have taken what you have given to the project and who have built on it, improved it, made it their project. Do you *really* think it is right to say:

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CT, section 3

2010-11-26 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 10:06 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I would sincerely ask anyone who feels the desire to pull the rug from under the project's feet in 10 years time if the project doesn't do what one likes: please recosider, and if you still cannot trust the project

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CT, section 3

2010-11-26 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: How can we have the hubris to say we know what's best for OSM in 10 years? Preserving the right to opt out of future changes doesn't say that. On the contrary, it is an expression of uncertainty over the future.

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] CT, section 3

2010-11-26 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Anthony,   you seem to be missing context. I have re-added the quote from Mike to which I replied: On 11/26/10 16:53, Anthony wrote: If you have a license, then make it closed, dont leave any loopholes or blank

Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion for an Unconference

2010-11-26 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 3:27 AM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: I think everyone agrees that detailed legal discussion belongs on the legal list. Questions such as how any licence transition should proceed, deletion of existing bits of map, and how to organize the voting process are not

Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion for an Unconference

2010-11-26 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 4:59 AM, Simon Ward si...@bleah.co.uk wrote: Any posting of topics specifically covered by a list is now not only arrogant, but demeaning to the whole community (on talk) in that they are assumed to be incapable of subscribing to another list and choosing what subjects

Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion for an Unconference

2010-11-26 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 4:36 PM, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: Have a look at commercial data and OSM and do a diff, what are the main things missing? The main thing missing is consistency. You'll often find a highly detailed section of map right next to a much more sparsely detailed

Re: [OSM-talk] Suggestion for an Unconference

2010-11-26 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 6:06 PM, Mike N. nice...@att.net wrote:  I would be surprised if there is any realistic way to crowdsource 99% of addr:housenumber in the US.   It's mindnumbing work, dangerous in some areas where pedestrians and bikes are not safe. In most areas of the US you can

Re: [OSM-talk] New site about the license change

2010-11-20 Thread Anthony
On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 8:18 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: The CT is a separate issue, and that was only ratified in (I believe) 2010 in its current form. Ratified by the LWG. Neither the membership nor the community got to vote on it.

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Best license for future tiles?

2010-11-19 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: Since the data isn't covered by BY-SA, if I recreate the data it isn't covered by BY-SA. Is the data covered by ODbL? If you recreate the data is it covered by ODbL? ___ legal-talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Best license for future tiles?

2010-11-19 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: On 11/19/2010 01:43 PM, Anthony wrote:  The ODbL does not *say* (i.e. contain the text) you can make Produced Works and release them as CC-BY. Combined with the DbCL it might be the case that you can do so, but the ODbL does

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Best license for future tiles?

2010-11-19 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: For me, as a PD advocate, the more licenses you license the stuff under the better as it will combine the loopholes of every single one. If, however, you intend to protect our data by putting it under a share-alike

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Best license for future tiles?

2010-11-18 Thread Anthony
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 9:58 AM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: Richard Fairhurst rich...@... writes: Yes. ODbL is very clear that there's an attribution requirement (4.3). Yes, that's right, but I also wanted to ask about the other requirement that at times has been ascribed to the ODbL:

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Best license for future tiles?

2010-11-18 Thread Anthony
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: Rob Myers r...@... writes: It's enforcable for much the same reason that if you send ten of your friends a few seconds of a Lady Gaga song and they put them back together to make the original track, whether they realise it or not

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Best license for future tiles?

2010-11-18 Thread Anthony
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: Exactly. And the copyright (or DB right) in the original data is an entirely separate issue. Yes - it's quite separate - you do not receive any licence to the original data but you do get a licence to all copyright interest

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Best license for future tiles?

2010-11-18 Thread Anthony
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: On 11/18/2010 05:28 PM, Ed Avis wrote: Indeed, this is another point of contention where different people say different things about what the ODbL permits or does not permit.  And it's not some abstract conundrum but part

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Nearmap vs CTs: any progress?

2010-11-18 Thread Anthony
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: Anthony o...@... writes: However, this part remains: Subject to Section 3 and 4 below, You hereby grant to OSMF and any party that receives Your Contents a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable licence

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Best license for future tiles?

2010-11-18 Thread Anthony
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: Anthony o...@... writes: Yes - it's quite separate - you do not receive any licence to the original data but you do get a licence to all copyright interest in the small bit of map you received As you have correctly pointed out

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Nearmap vs CTs: any progress?

2010-11-18 Thread Anthony
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: Anthony o...@... writes: The way I read it, Your Contents = the material contributed by You, as distinguished from the preexisting material employed in the work So, if I just bulk-uploaded data from somewhere else, the 'Your

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Best license for future tiles?

2010-11-18 Thread Anthony
On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 11:42 AM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: You would not imagine the record company saying on the one hand 'yes, you can make short clips of our music and release them as CC-BY' but on the other hand 'no, if you try to exercise the rights granted by the CC-BY licence

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [DRAFT] Contributor Terms 1.2

2010-11-17 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 7:31 AM, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: Francis Davey fjm...@... writes: No, the data contributed to OSM must be licensed to OSMF under the contributor terms: You hereby grant to OSMF and any party that receives Your Contents a worldwide, royalty-free, non-exclusive,

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change

2010-11-17 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 2:25 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, On 11/17/10 04:26, Anthony wrote: They left what process?  The goal of the process was not to find a license like the ODbL.  The goal of the process was to address the sui generis database right within the CC

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change

2010-11-17 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 4:40 AM, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: On 11/17/2010 04:25 AM, Mike Linksvayer wrote: A bigger problem, in my mind, would be facilitating a fracturing of the copyleft universe. ODbL Produced Works may be BY-SA. Possibly. But if so that BY-SA doesn't extend to

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Best license for future tiles?

2010-11-17 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 2:30 PM, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 1:19 PM, 80n 80n...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone care to point to the language in ODbL that would stop someone tracing from a Produced Work? I

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New site about the license change

2010-11-16 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: I release all my OSM work as public domain anyway and believe that CC-BY-SA is a deeply inequitable licence when applied to data. I really don't get this. What is inequitable about CC-BY-SA? The requirement to

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change

2010-11-16 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 6:23 AM, ke...@cordina.org.uk wrote: It strikes me as two issues - changing to ODbL and, separately, the inclusion of a clause in the CTs allowing a future unspecified relicensing by the OSMF.  The two aren't, necessarily, interlinked. And for some reason the part

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New site about the license change

2010-11-16 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 2:01 PM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Anthony wrote: I really don't get this. We have been through this before. I have no interest in engaging with you Why would you send an email to the list explaining that? By doing so aren't you engaging with me

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change

2010-11-16 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: If Creative Commons had been more friendly towards the data licensing issue, a similar window could have been opened in a hypothetical CC-BY-SA 3.1 If Creative Commons wanted to support the export of sui generis database

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-legal-talk] [talk] New site about the license change

2010-11-16 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote: Conversely, if OSM resolved to stick with CC-BY-SA then I'd leave as would several others. You'd leave if OSM resolved to stick with CC-BY-SA? Why? When did you decide that CC-BY-SA was so horrible, and why do you

Re: [OSM-talk] New site about the license change

2010-11-15 Thread Anthony
On Mon, Nov 15, 2010 at 8:20 PM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: If someone was to approach OSM and say they were using OSM data in their project, but their projects licence was changing and therefore they'd like OSM to relicence our data under some licence theyve created for their

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] license change map

2010-11-13 Thread Anthony
On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: The discussion started with the license change map http://osm.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/map/, and someone said that the bits that are red on the license change map will be deleted. That person was asked to use would, not

Re: [OSM-talk] license change map

2010-11-13 Thread Anthony
On Sat, Nov 13, 2010 at 9:31 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, Florian Lohoff wrote: The above shows me there is no place for dissent in this project. There is place for dissent. There's no place however (a) for license discussions on talk and (b) for failing to apply simple

Re: [OSM-talk] license change map

2010-11-12 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 4:02 AM, Fabian Schmidt fschm...@informatik.uni-leipzig.de wrote: Am 11.11.10 schrieb Anthony: What exactly does it mean for a way to be created and edited only by people who did accept the ODBL?  Specifically, are you looking at the underlying nodes

Re: [Talk-us] Proposal: delete census-designated place polygons

2010-11-12 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Nov 12, 2010 at 7:04 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: The original point was you wanted to find area which would be negatively impacted by your proposal. People have shown you several now. The proposal was for Florida. The example was from Maryland. Meanwhile, here in

Re: [OSM-talk] license change map

2010-11-11 Thread Anthony
On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Fabian Schmidt fschm...@informatik.uni-leipzig.de wrote: Out of 68 million ways 46% are created and edited only by people who did accept the ODBL. What exactly does it mean for a way to be created and edited only by people who did accept the ODBL?

Re: [OSM-talk] license change map

2010-11-11 Thread Anthony
On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 8:37 PM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: From looking at a few different cities in this map, it is quite telling what areas support the licence and which areas will be devastated by the data loss. On the bright side, the removal of 90% of the human-edited

Re: [OSM-talk] Historical Data in OSM database

2010-11-10 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 5:31 PM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: On Wed, 2010-11-10 at 22:25 +0100, Laurence Penney wrote: For the record, I'm 100% against OSM becoming a place for general  historical data ... Just out of interest, are you 100% against OSM keeping recent history

Re: [OSM-talk] Google fumbles again in latin america

2010-11-08 Thread Anthony
On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 11:26 PM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: David Murn writes:   On Sat, 2010-11-06 at 22:58 -0400, Russ Nelson wrote:   Apollinaris Schoell writes:     I consider it improving osm by a human mapper according the spirit     of the project instead a container full

Re: [OSM-talk] Google fumbles again in latin america

2010-11-07 Thread Anthony
On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 6:28 PM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: If we're only talking about administrative boundaries, thats a different story, as theres no easy way to verify that data on-the-ground Since when is no easy way to verify equivalent to unable to be corrected? If the

Re: [OSM-talk] Google fumbles again in latin america

2010-11-05 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: We're not talking about human surveyed data- that is already addressed by tiger_reviewed- we're talking about disassociating the original feature from an import from its current incarnation. That doesn't even make any

Re: [OSM-talk] Google fumbles again in latin america

2010-11-05 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Richard Mann richard.mann.westoxf...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 1:50 PM, Steven Johnson sejohns...@gmail.com wrote: +1  This is why I object to removing the TIGER tags in the US. Retaining the source and lineage of data (or, as it turns out NOT

Re: [OSM-talk] Google fumbles again in latin america

2010-11-05 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Apollinaris Schoell ascho...@gmail.com wrote: hmm, sorry got the wrong name here Oops. Sure screwed up your ad hominem reasoning. Hilarious. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM data and Google Maps

2010-11-02 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 5:04 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote: Does it matter? Does it matter that there is some company out there that is making lots of money selling map data while violating our (very

Re: [OSM-talk] OSM data and Google Maps

2010-11-02 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 8:01 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/11/3 Anthony o...@inbox.org: Why?  According to the very organization distributing the data, the license doesn't apply. Well, isn't it more it might not apply? Maybe we won't win a case but maybe we would

Re: [OSM-talk] Anyone read the CC0 legal code?

2010-11-01 Thread Anthony
On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 6:36 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 November 2010 02:40, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: Currently the checkbox has absolutely no bearing on the license that your data is distributed under. It really is just a statement of purpose which is

Re: [Talk-us] Route Tagging Consensus

2010-10-30 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 11:57 PM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Rather than jumping to an answer The tags shall be this! can we look at what our ideal goals would be? Sure, in this order: Avoid ambiguity. Avoid subjectivity. Avoid redundancy. Add detail. Try to maintain as much

Re: [Talk-us] Route Tagging Consensus

2010-10-30 Thread Anthony
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 8:42 AM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: On 10/30/10 8:32 AM, Anthony wrote: On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 11:57 PM, Richard Weaitrich...@weait.com  wrote: Rather than jumping to an answer The tags shall be this! can we look at what our ideal goals would

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] stop signs

2010-10-26 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: But a stop sign isn't a restriction; it has the main effect of slowing average speed. If our router is so precise that the seconds added by a stop sign count, it can easily calculate the nearest intersection to each

Re: [Talk-us] Highway Tagging Consensus to Improve OSM (and address some of 41 latitude's concerns)

2010-10-26 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Alex Mauer ha...@hawkesnest.net wrote: On 10/26/2010 12:15 PM, Richard Weait wrote: These rendering decisions are completely unrelated to the discussion of how shields might best be tagged. This portion of the thread clearly moved on to a different but

Re: [Talk-us] Highway Tagging Consensus to Improve OSM (and address some of 41 latitude's concerns)

2010-10-26 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Alex Mauer ha...@hawkesnest.net wrote: On 10/26/2010 12:42 PM, Anthony wrote: As for the question of tagging, basically you can use relations, or you can hack something up to simulate relations (specifically, to handle the very common situation where

Re: [OSM-talk] Amenity key

2010-10-25 Thread Anthony
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 5:23 AM, Markus Lindholm markus.lindh...@gmail.com wrote: What constitutes a primary tag? A tag which is meant to be exclusive of other primary tags. To avoid infinite recursion, amenity is a primary tag. How should one know which tags are considered primary when

Re: [OSM-talk] Amenity key

2010-10-25 Thread Anthony
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 7:04 AM, Peter Wendorff wendo...@uni-paderborn.de wrote: Let's take the following entities: A museum showing old buildings arranged to villages from the far past (there are a lot of in Germany, but also in other countries). As that's not a building (it includes

Re: [OSM-talk] [Tagging] Amenity key

2010-10-23 Thread Anthony
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 7:09 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: everything can be something you might want to navigate to, so this is a bad definition IMHO. The fact that categories are used as keys is a bad design. So, whatever.

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] how to tag US townships?

2010-10-22 Thread Anthony
On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Alex Mauer ha...@hawkesnest.net wrote: On 10/21/2010 07:12 PM, Anthony wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Alex Mauerha...@hawkesnest.net  wrote: The point of admin_level is *not* primarily to record which governments are above another.  It’s to indicate

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] how to tag US townships?

2010-10-21 Thread Anthony
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Greg Troxel g...@ir.bbn.com wrote: So if we have whole-multiple-counties=5 (eg NYC) county=6 township=7 city/town=8 then it would make sense everywhere. What would be an example of a township that would be at admin_level=7? On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:29 AM,

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] how to tag US townships?

2010-10-21 Thread Anthony
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 4:05 PM, Alex Mauer ha...@hawkesnest.net wrote: On 10/20/2010 03:59 PM, Anthony wrote: Can someone please turn off my need to constantly enter a capatcha (User:User_5528)? Is it because you’re adding external references?  That always triggers a CAPTCHA… I can't

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] how to tag US townships?

2010-10-21 Thread Anthony
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Alex Mauer ha...@hawkesnest.net wrote: On 10/21/2010 08:06 AM, Anthony wrote: On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Greg Troxelg...@ir.bbn.com  wrote: So if we have whole-multiple-counties=5 (eg NYC) county=6 township=7 city/town=8 then it would make sense

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License Question

2010-10-20 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 8:20 AM, Kevin Sharpe kevin.sha...@btinternet.com wrote: I think the solution is to host the database on sourceforge with an PDDL license and then automatically upload the data to OSM. If you're going to do that, you might want to look into hosting the database in

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] how to tag US townships?

2010-10-20 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Jim McAndrew j...@loc8.us wrote: There are townships in other states that are managed differently, but in PA and NJ, they are just county subdivisions, and are not points to put on a map. I think you're right here, though I probably would indicate the township

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] how to tag US townships?

2010-10-20 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote: Anthony o...@inbox.org writes: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Jim McAndrew j...@loc8.us wrote: There are townships in other states that are managed differently, but in PA and NJ, they are just county subdivisions

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] how to tag US townships?

2010-10-20 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Alex Mauer ha...@hawkesnest.net wrote: On 10/20/2010 03:01 PM, Alex Mauer wrote: Townships are at the same level as cities/towns/villages/other municipalities[1], [2]. I’m sure someone correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding is you won’t find a chunk of

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] how to tag US townships?

2010-10-20 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:13 PM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote: Anthony o...@inbox.org writes: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:49 PM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote: Anthony o...@inbox.org writes: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Jim McAndrew j...@loc8.us wrote: There are townships

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] how to tag US townships?

2010-10-20 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:21 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: None of this has anything to do with place=*, which discusses settlements, not administrative divisions. IOW, a municipality may also be a settlement, but then, it may not be. On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Alex Mauer ha

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] how to tag US townships?

2010-10-20 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:38 PM, Alex Mauer ha...@hawkesnest.net wrote: On 10/20/2010 03:24 PM, John F. Eldredge wrote: Not all US states use the same administrative hierarchy. Yeah, but for example we use the same admin_level regardless of whether it’s called a county, a borough, or a

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] how to tag US townships?

2010-10-20 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 4:47 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: At the very least it would be nice to have a table outlining exactly what municipality or minor civil division means for each state. Is there one somewhere already?  Should I start one? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] how to tag US townships?

2010-10-20 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:09 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Okay, here's another wrench to throw in: In Pennsylvania:  School districts can comprise of one single municipality, like the School District

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] how to tag US townships?

2010-10-20 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:15 PM, Brad Neuhauser brad.neuhau...@gmail.com wrote: To save you some work, you might look at this report, Government Organization, published in 2002 by the Census: http://www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/gc021x1.pdf Oh, I'm only planning on doing PA, NJ, and FL. Also

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] how to tag US townships?

2010-10-20 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Oh, I'm only planning on doing PA, NJ, and FL.  Also maybe NY, as it's the other one of the four states I've lived in. Okay, well, I started New York, and concluded that it doesn't fit into the design of admin_levels. --- [New York

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] how to tag US townships?

2010-10-20 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Oh, I'm only planning on doing PA, NJ, and FL.  Also maybe NY, as it's the other one of the four states I've lived in. Okay, well, I started New York, and concluded

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] how to tag US townships?

2010-10-20 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 6:34 PM, Alex Mauer ha...@hawkesnest.net wrote: I’d put town at 7, city and village at 8, based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_divisions_of_New_York#Town and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administrative_divisions_of_New_York#Village Specifically,

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] how to tag US townships?

2010-10-20 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 6:50 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Alex Mauer ha...@hawkesnest.net wrote: On 10/20/2010 05:37 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: Why can't something with admin_level=x cross a border with admin_level less than x? There are a

Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] how to tag US townships?

2010-10-20 Thread Anthony
On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 6:50 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Alex Mauer ha...@hawkesnest.net wrote: On 10/20/2010 05:37 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: Why can't something

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License Question

2010-10-19 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:55 AM, Kevin Sharpe kevin.sha...@btinternet.com wrote: I posted these questions to the Forum and it was suggested that I try here; We wish to add to OSM data relating to electric vehicle charge point locations and capabilities. However, it is not clear to me whether

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License Question

2010-10-19 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Kevin Sharpe kevin.sha...@btinternet.com wrote: In what jurisdiction? People will be adding data worldwide. Basically, I think you have three choices. 1) You consider your data to be valuable enough to hire a lawyer to try to figure out a way to keep people

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] License Question

2010-10-19 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 1:16 PM, Kevin Sharpe kevin.sha...@btinternet.com wrote: Do you [Kevin] want your data to be usable without restriction, or are you trying to restrict it? We want the data to be available without restriction. Okay, I misunderstood you, and I'm going to have to pass on

Re: [OSM-talk] some notes, ostensibly from MapQuest (sorry if this is spam)

2010-10-19 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:40 PM, Antony Pegg anttheli...@gmail.com wrote: Or, to put it another, even simpler way, Anthony - I hope that in some small way, when you have a choice of commercial map/directions vendors to use for some / any reason (if you ever do, not to offend your refined

Re: [Talk-us] Highway Tagging Consensus to Improve OSM (and address some of 41 latitude's concerns)

2010-10-19 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Alex Mauer ha...@hawkesnest.net wrote: On 10/18/2010 04:54 PM, Anthony wrote: First of all, the ref tags aren't valid.  The numbers are references of *routes*, not of *ways*. [snip] You could equally say “the name tags aren’t valid; the names are references

Re: [Talk-us] Highway Tagging Consensus to Improve OSM (and address some of 41 latitude's concerns)

2010-10-19 Thread Anthony
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 3:06 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Don't tag for the renderer. Don't tag *incorrectly* for the renderer. Exactly! ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk

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