Re: [OSM-talk] [tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - (historic=stocks)
Matthew Flint wrote: Deal all, I'd like to propose a new tag, historic=stocks. Stocks are devices used in medieval times for public humiliation and corporal punishment, and are still to be found (but not used, alas!) around the UK. I would welcome comments on the Proposed Features page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features/stocks Matthew Perhaps if you made it amenity=stocks, they might get used? But seriously I think this is a small enough usage that you just do it; it isn't going to get rendered unless by a historical society. Any idea how many there actually are? If we had one round here the vandals would burn it down. Probably whilst in it.. Mark ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Missing tiles?
Lukasz wrote: Also could you add in generate_tiles.py what is what: #bbox( left, bottom, right ,top) #bbox( minlong, minlat maxlong ,maxlat) correct? Without being an expert I don't know what is min long max long, and min lat vs max lat. The way I remember it is lines of *long*itude are all as *long* as each other, so they run North-South(-North) around the globe, and so measure how far East-West you are. Lines of latitude vary in size being a maximum at the equator and a minimum at the poles (so measure how far North or South you are). From that I would be able to confirm that you are correct above. Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Tiles for mobile devices
Hi! I want to make a set of tiles for mobile devices. Its easier for a mobile device if you use 64x64 pixel tiles rather than 256x256. To do this, I need to edit generate_tiles.py. The file is pretty poorly documented. Does anyone have any tips on where to start? Do I need to change the projection stuff up top? Thanks! -Joseph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 6:34 PM, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Adam Schreiber wrote: Not if you consider that roads are to be marked down their center line and typically the parking area ends to the outside of the center line of the road demarking their boundary. An argument that I would accept if we'd be tagging roads as areas. But as long as we tag roads as idealized zero-width lines which any renderer will draw as it sees fit, it does not make a lot of sense to let the area end precisely at the roadside. It makes more sense - to me - to place nodes with their actual latitude and longitude, so if the edge of the carpark is right here where I'm standing then marking it in the database as being somewhere 5-10m over to my left seems wrong. Same with two buildings either side of a road, where the edges of both are 10 metres apart, not touching down its centerline. This is because I'm in the centerline camp - those of use who believe we're marking the middle of the road for expedience's sake see no problem with a park - for cars or otherwise - coming up short of the road. And it means that areas preserve their actual dimensions instead of growing outwards beyond their actual boundary - an increasingly proportionately large problem as we add ever smaller details to OSM. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
Hi, On 25.09.2008, at 12:03, Andy Allan wrote: And it means that areas preserve their actual dimensions instead of growing outwards beyond their actual boundary - an increasingly proportionately large problem as we add ever smaller details to OSM. But is that not a problem for roads as well? What use is it to have the car park exactly where it is in reality when the *road* next to it will grow outwards beyond its actual boundary because people thought in unnecessary to actually map the extent of the road surface? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
Andy quoted Frederik: An argument that I would accept if we'd be tagging roads as areas. But as long as we tag roads as idealized zero-width lines which any renderer will draw as it sees fit, it does not make a lot of sense to let the area end precisely at the roadside. And added: It makes more sense - to me - to place nodes with their actual latitude and longitude, so if the edge of the carpark is right here where I'm standing then marking it in the database as being somewhere 5-10m over to my left seems wrong. Same with two buildings either side of a road, where the edges of both are 10 metres apart, not touching down its centerline. I would agree, and if Frederik does want to tag roads as areas he could use the width= and/or est_width= tags, although it is unlikely that the renderers use them, assuming that the widths they currently render are based on just the highway= value and doesn't take into account any width tags (though I may be wrong). Ed ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
Hi, On 25.09.2008, at 12:23, Ed Loach wrote: I would agree, and if Frederik does want to tag roads as areas he could use the width= and/or est_width= tags, although it is unlikely that the renderers use them, assuming that the widths they currently render are based on just the highway= value and doesn't take into account any width tags (though I may be wrong). Well I don't necessarily want to tag roads as areas, I just want to map the fact that something (e.g. a forest) extends exactly up to the road. If the road is 0 metres wide (or as wide as the renderer wants it to be), then the only way to map this is to re-use the road centreline as a forest border. If the road had a left and right shoulder line then I could use that to delineate the forest border. It all boils down to whether the forest border and the road are independent of each other or whether you simply wanted to express the forest stops at the road (which is often the case for landuse or administrative areas, less often for forests). Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
This is an interesting topic which is well worth discussion, but to return to the original question for a moment. The issue is that mapnik is not capable of rendering a way that is both a path and an area. The example given was highway=service, amenity=parking. Regardless of whether people are centerlineists or not, there are always going to be mappers who will tag ways this way. We have a free form tagging scheme so we cannot prohibit such things. For example, a way tagged as highway=waterway, power=line (two linear tags) might be unusual (water and electricity generally don't mix ;) but we cannot disallow it. So, if a way is tagged as highway=service to describe a road, but also amenity=parking to indicate that the road *is part of the car park and defines its boundaries* then that's the way it is. Suggesting that the data be changed to accommodate the deficiency of a particular renderer is very much a case of mapping for the renderer. This is a principle that is important to uphold. Fix the renderer not the data. Back to the centerlineist discussion... 80n On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On 25.09.2008, at 12:23, Ed Loach wrote: I would agree, and if Frederik does want to tag roads as areas he could use the width= and/or est_width= tags, although it is unlikely that the renderers use them, assuming that the widths they currently render are based on just the highway= value and doesn't take into account any width tags (though I may be wrong). Well I don't necessarily want to tag roads as areas, I just want to map the fact that something (e.g. a forest) extends exactly up to the road. If the road is 0 metres wide (or as wide as the renderer wants it to be), then the only way to map this is to re-use the road centreline as a forest border. If the road had a left and right shoulder line then I could use that to delineate the forest border. It all boils down to whether the forest border and the road are independent of each other or whether you simply wanted to express the forest stops at the road (which is often the case for landuse or administrative areas, less often for forests). Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
Frederik Ramm escribió: Hi, On 25.09.2008, at 12:23, Ed Loach wrote: I would agree, and if Frederik does want to tag roads as areas he could use the width= and/or est_width= tags, although it is unlikely that the renderers use them, assuming that the widths they currently render are based on just the highway= value and doesn't take into account any width tags (though I may be wrong). Well I don't necessarily want to tag roads as areas, I just want to map the fact that something (e.g. a forest) extends exactly up to the road. If the road is 0 metres wide (or as wide as the renderer wants it to be), then the only way to map this is to re-use the road centreline as a forest border. If the road had a left and right shoulder line then I could use that to delineate the forest border. It all boils down to whether the forest border and the road are independent of each other or whether you simply wanted to express the forest stops at the road (which is often the case for landuse or administrative areas, less often for forests). Bye Frederik in my opinion a more practical aproach is better. i think they must be independent because is easier to edit and correct in the future. a road around a forest can share nodes or the way can be tagged with bouth things, but if i buy land close to the road and take out the trees to build a house its easyer to edit just the landuse. so i would not do any of the cases. with JOSM i can zoom and put very close independent paths not touching each other making them practicaly coincident. the only case ill bother about what distance to draw it is if the barrier=fence finally gets aproved because maybe the road wich renders over the landuse will hide the fence if its to close to it. but again is up to each render the width of the road and if it renders differet width upon the number of lanes, there is even less control. sergio ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
80n wrote: This is an interesting topic which is well worth discussion, but to return to the original question for a moment. The issue is that mapnik is not capable of rendering a way that is both a path and an area. The example given was highway=service, amenity=parking. [...] Suggesting that the data be changed to accommodate the deficiency of a particular renderer is very much a case of mapping for the renderer. This is a principle that is important to uphold. Fix the renderer not the data. Getting into specifics a bit (they both qualify as the renderer), this is perhaps more an osm2pgsql issue than a Mapnik issue. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 11:58 AM, Richard Fairhurst [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: 80n wrote: This is an interesting topic which is well worth discussion, but to return to the original question for a moment. The issue is that mapnik is not capable of rendering a way that is both a path and an area. The example given was highway=service, amenity=parking. [...] Suggesting that the data be changed to accommodate the deficiency of a particular renderer is very much a case of mapping for the renderer. This is a principle that is important to uphold. Fix the renderer not the data. Getting into specifics a bit (they both qualify as the renderer), this is perhaps more an osm2pgsql issue than a Mapnik issue. Agreed. And something that should be fixed, right? cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:47 PM, 80n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Suggesting that the data be changed to accommodate the deficiency of a particular renderer is very much a case of mapping for the renderer. This is a principle that is important to uphold. Fix the renderer not the data. It's not tagging for the renderer, it's Occam's razor : OSM tagging is a computer language and accommodating all kinds of seldom used quirks is bad practice. It will make it very difficult for an outsider to write and debug new software Back to the centerlineist discussion... Mungewell mentioned that he wants routing programs to be able to route through parking areas. So it's a good idea that the service way and the parking area share all the nodes. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
80n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Regardless of whether people are centerlineists or not, there are always going to be mappers who will tag ways this way. We have a free form tagging scheme so we cannot prohibit such things. For example, a way tagged as highway=waterway, power=line (two linear tags) might be unusual (water and electricity generally don't mix ;) but we cannot disallow it. That is true, but the good practice page in the wiki says One feature, one osm-object. So, noone should be too suprised if a renderer is only rendering either the waterway or the powerline. IMHO renderers should encourage good practices by not being to lax in what they render. I am just thinking of the problems arising from web browsers trying to render everything that looks vaguely like html. Christoph (Xoff) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] OSM Mapnik not displaying
Can somebody help to find out what has gone wrong with my system? (Windows XP, ZoneAlarm Firewall). With Firefox 3 (which is generally working as expected) the Mapnik tiles at http://www.openstreetmap.org don't display - just the logo and ...more OSM coming soon (yuk). Osmarender, the Cyclemap, NoNames all display ok. With Internet Explorer and Firefox 2, Mapnik is ok, but it is not with some other programs, http://www.informationfreeway.org, http://geo.topf.org/comparison/index.html and http://sautter.com/map/. This behaviour may have started when I had to re-install Firefox 2 to get the Yahoo image background in JOSM. The firewall doesn't report blocking anything relevant, as far as I can see. Any suggestions? Chris ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
Hi, On 25.09.2008, at 12:53, sergio sevillano wrote: with JOSM i can zoom and put very close independent paths not touching each other making them practicaly coincident. Exactly... and then someone comes along and makes the road a bit more accurate, and you force him to do the job twice OR leave a no-man's- land gap between road and forest. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Christoph Boehme [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: 80n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Regardless of whether people are centerlineists or not, there are always going to be mappers who will tag ways this way. We have a free form tagging scheme so we cannot prohibit such things. For example, a way tagged as highway=waterway, power=line (two linear tags) might be unusual (water and electricity generally don't mix ;) but we cannot disallow it. That is true, but the good practice page in the wiki says One feature, one osm-object. So, noone should be too suprised if a renderer is only rendering either the waterway or the powerline. This is a distinction that will be lost on most casual mappers. Its complicated enough for them already. You are arguing for a scheme where seemingly arbitrary combinations of tags can or cannot be combined on one osm-object. highway=road can be shared with abutters=residential but cannot be shared with historic=battle because its an area (I'm thinking of things like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Concord_Retreat.png and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_of_Death both of which are battles that took place along roads). Where are these combination rules defined? Certain tag combination may or may not make sense, but there's no semantics in place to prohibit them. While I agree that it is good practice not to overload an object, renderers need to be tolerant and able to deal with unexpected tag combinations. 80n IMHO renderers should encourage good practices by not being to lax in what they render. I am just thinking of the problems arising from web browsers trying to render everything that looks vaguely like html. Christoph (Xoff) ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 11:47 AM, 80n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an interesting topic which is well worth discussion, but to return to the original question for a moment. The issue is that mapnik is not capable of rendering a way that is both a path and an area. The example given was highway=service, amenity=parking. Regardless of whether people are centerlineists or not, there are always going to be mappers who will tag ways this way. We have a free form tagging scheme so we cannot prohibit such things. For example, a way tagged as highway=waterway, power=line (two linear tags) might be unusual (water and electricity generally don't mix ;) but we cannot disallow it. Umm... I don't like that argument. Saying we have a free form tagging scheme, and saying all the renderers should just cope with absolutely anything someone happens to have done are two very different things. We may not be able to disallow something, but we can sure as hell disagree with it and refuse to support it in a particular tool. Just because everything is allowed does not mean there is no such thing as wrong either, it just means our mechanisms for coping with it are different. So, if a way is tagged as highway=service to describe a road, but also amenity=parking to indicate that the road *is part of the car park and defines its boundaries* then that's the way it is. Suggesting that the data be changed to accommodate the deficiency of a particular renderer is very much a case of mapping for the renderer. This is a principle that is important to uphold. Fix the renderer not the data. And this is the point -- it's not a deficiency... as far as I'm concerned the car park has been incorrectly modelled. There is no sense in tagging a feature as both a line and an area... that way madness lies. And tagging a way/area with more than one feature can be just confusing. One feature per object is an entirely sensible rule that people are of course free to ignore... just don't expect anything to ever work if people make a regular habit out of it. The problem is that all sense of predictability has just been thrown out... does this represent a road around a car park, a road in a car park, an area of service road you can park on, or a centre line of a service road you can park on? Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:47 PM, 80n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a distinction that will be lost on most casual mappers. Its complicated enough for them already. You are arguing for a scheme where seemingly arbitrary combinations of tags can or cannot be combined on one osm-object. No he's not. He's arguing that arbitrary combinations of *real-world* objects should be avoided. Given that roads and parks are actually separate things, I'm sure we can spare a way for each of them. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:42 PM, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On 25.09.2008, at 12:53, sergio sevillano wrote: with JOSM i can zoom and put very close independent paths not touching each other making them practicaly coincident. This technique implies an accuracy that is normally unwarranted. How can you distinguish between someone using this zoomed in technique to indicate that a feature abuts a road and, say, Andy Allen armed with some high-tech wizardry, who is mapping it to 2cm precision? 80n Exactly... and then someone comes along and makes the road a bit more accurate, and you force him to do the job twice OR leave a no-man's- land gap between road and forest. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mapnik not displaying
On 25/09/2008 12:28, Chris Morley wrote: Can somebody help to find out what has gone wrong with my system? (Windows XP, ZoneAlarm Firewall). With Firefox 3 (which is generally working as expected) the Mapnik tiles at http://www.openstreetmap.org don't display - just the logo and ...more OSM coming soon (yuk). Osmarender, the Cyclemap, NoNames all display ok. With Internet Explorer and Firefox 2, Mapnik is ok, but it is not with some other programs, http://www.informationfreeway.org, http://geo.topf.org/comparison/index.html and http://sautter.com/map/. This behaviour may have started when I had to re-install Firefox 2 to get the Yahoo image background in JOSM. The firewall doesn't report blocking anything relevant, as far as I can see. ...more OSM coming soon is a tile served in response to a request, isn't it? I often get them when the server takes too long. So the problem must be server side. I got one such tile just now, in among a the rest. I'm running FF3 + Win XP like you. David ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Dave Stubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 11:47 AM, 80n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an interesting topic which is well worth discussion, but to return to the original question for a moment. The issue is that mapnik is not capable of rendering a way that is both a path and an area. The example given was highway=service, amenity=parking. Regardless of whether people are centerlineists or not, there are always going to be mappers who will tag ways this way. We have a free form tagging scheme so we cannot prohibit such things. For example, a way tagged as highway=waterway, power=line (two linear tags) might be unusual (water and electricity generally don't mix ;) but we cannot disallow it. Umm... I don't like that argument. Saying we have a free form tagging scheme, and saying all the renderers should just cope with absolutely anything someone happens to have done are two very different things. We may not be able to disallow something, but we can sure as hell disagree with it and refuse to support it in a particular tool. Just because everything is allowed does not mean there is no such thing as wrong either, it just means our mechanisms for coping with it are different. So, if a way is tagged as highway=service to describe a road, but also amenity=parking to indicate that the road *is part of the car park and defines its boundaries* then that's the way it is. Suggesting that the data be changed to accommodate the deficiency of a particular renderer is very much a case of mapping for the renderer. This is a principle that is important to uphold. Fix the renderer not the data. And this is the point -- it's not a deficiency... as far as I'm concerned the car park has been incorrectly modelled. There is no sense in tagging a feature as both a line and an area... that way madness lies. You're proposing that a field with a hedge around it should be tagged as two separate ways that share the same set of nodes right? A single object tagged with landuse=field, border=hedge seems pretty reasonable and intuitive to me. Where's the madness in this? In this case a renderer might choose to render the field as an area or the border as a line or, indeed, both. Sometimes it can be the renderer that needs to decide whether something is rendered as an area or a line or even a point. A roundabout being a good example where at some low zoom level it could be an icon, at another it's a filled in blob (an area), and at a high zoom level its a road with a hole in the middle. 80n And tagging a way/area with more than one feature can be just confusing. One feature per object is an entirely sensible rule that people are of course free to ignore... just don't expect anything to ever work if people make a regular habit out of it. The problem is that all sense of predictability has just been thrown out... does this represent a road around a car park, a road in a car park, an area of service road you can park on, or a centre line of a service road you can park on? Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 80n wrote: On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:42 PM, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On 25.09.2008, at 12:53, sergio sevillano wrote: with JOSM i can zoom and put very close independent paths not touching each other making them practicaly coincident. This technique implies an accuracy that is normally unwarranted. How can you distinguish between someone using this zoomed in technique to indicate that a feature abuts a road and, say, Andy Allen armed with some high-tech wizardry, who is mapping it to 2cm precision? 80n indeed, who wants to? My 2p - I would separate them, the unglue tool in JOSM is good for this, and have them as distinct entities. I do it my way - My car parks look OK to me on the map, I like the data as it is, and the only reason I have seen to date in this thread to do it differently is Frederik's point about later edits needing both items to be moved. Fair, but not the end of the world... One of my reasons is that if I were to come in change it from one model to another, there is potential for data loss in reducing the node count, whereas an increase in nodes does not lose any data, but (if done accurately) improves it. I tend to regard loss of data in OSM as a bad thing, unless the world has really changed. Mark -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFI24UYJfMmcSPNh94RAguZAJ0Y4wf/ibttTXLGzXZcAzLCUpgYCACbBeXY FPzcZxgEIQW/r87NjHYvU1w= =N1LO -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 11:16 AM, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, On 25.09.2008, at 12:03, Andy Allan wrote: And it means that areas preserve their actual dimensions instead of growing outwards beyond their actual boundary - an increasingly proportionately large problem as we add ever smaller details to OSM. But is that not a problem for roads as well? What use is it to have the car park exactly where it is in reality when the *road* next to it will grow outwards beyond its actual boundary because people thought in unnecessary to actually map the extent of the road surface? It is a problem for roads, but that's just an argument for mapping road areas. My main problem with mapping areas to the centre line (I'm not really counting landuse here, its possibly an exception) is the farcical situations to which it leads. The buildings example is the best: it's not uncommon at all to have a road abutted on both sides by buildings. If we map them to the centreline then we possibly increase their size by 50%, and happily record that they share a wall. Obviously they don't, and if you somehow figure out there's also a road in there, you might be able to reconstruct the real situation given a road width (which very few people actually record). So we say not to do it for buildings, but only for parks and car parks (I've seen this advice given). So now we have these sticking out into the road compared to a building right next to them. And there's lots of roads with grass verges; how big do they get before the object doesn't abut the road, and where is this width accounted for? The situation is confused greatly as soon as you try to map the park's fence or wall (if it exists): where's the road, inside or outside? Or we have a post box on the side of the road on the pavement: these are almost universally mapped as nodes where they are, rather than as a way node -- if we mapped to the centre line these post boxes are now inside the park? Or if the park diverges from the road at some point, do we maintain the offset and get the angles right, break the angles, or introduce an arbitrary curve? I get that the roads are being mapped as abstractions, and I get that it makes a lot of sense to stay abstracted, but on the whole I'd say the number of questions raised by this approach makes it a lot easier in the long run to just give up. We already break the abstraction for so many features precisely because coming up with tagging schemes to cope is just too hard, and because users find it so much easier to just plonk something on a satellite photo. Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 1:22 PM, 80n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Dave Stubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 11:47 AM, 80n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an interesting topic which is well worth discussion, but to return to the original question for a moment. The issue is that mapnik is not capable of rendering a way that is both a path and an area. The example given was highway=service, amenity=parking. Regardless of whether people are centerlineists or not, there are always going to be mappers who will tag ways this way. We have a free form tagging scheme so we cannot prohibit such things. For example, a way tagged as highway=waterway, power=line (two linear tags) might be unusual (water and electricity generally don't mix ;) but we cannot disallow it. Umm... I don't like that argument. Saying we have a free form tagging scheme, and saying all the renderers should just cope with absolutely anything someone happens to have done are two very different things. We may not be able to disallow something, but we can sure as hell disagree with it and refuse to support it in a particular tool. Just because everything is allowed does not mean there is no such thing as wrong either, it just means our mechanisms for coping with it are different. So, if a way is tagged as highway=service to describe a road, but also amenity=parking to indicate that the road *is part of the car park and defines its boundaries* then that's the way it is. Suggesting that the data be changed to accommodate the deficiency of a particular renderer is very much a case of mapping for the renderer. This is a principle that is important to uphold. Fix the renderer not the data. And this is the point -- it's not a deficiency... as far as I'm concerned the car park has been incorrectly modelled. There is no sense in tagging a feature as both a line and an area... that way madness lies. You're proposing that a field with a hedge around it should be tagged as two separate ways that share the same set of nodes right? A single object tagged with landuse=field, border=hedge seems pretty reasonable and intuitive to me. Where's the madness in this? Sounds pretty sensible to me too. Border implies it's a property of the field, and you don't normally use hedges for anything else. If we get really super accurate you /might/ find someone mapping hedge areas, and wondering whether you mapped the centre line or not, but I doubt it. Here's another: military=airfield, border=fence, fence_height=3, fence_type=chain_link_with_razorwire, highway=unclassified. Where's the fence/road? In this case a renderer might choose to render the field as an area or the border as a line or, indeed, both. Sometimes it can be the renderer that needs to decide whether something is rendered as an area or a line or even a point. A roundabout being a good example where at some low zoom level it could be an icon, at another it's a filled in blob (an area), and at a high zoom level its a road with a hole in the middle. Absolutely true. Dave ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] German Supreme Court uses OpenStreetMap
The German Supreme Court (Bundesverfassungsgericht) uses OpenStreetMap maps on its web site: http://www.bundesverfassungsgericht.de/organisation/anfahrt.html Jochen -- Jochen Topf [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.remote.org/jochen/ +49-721-388298 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] clean gpx tracks
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 02:35:49PM +0200, Lambert Carsten wrote: Maybe someone can point me to some editor with which I can easily clean up the tracks without clearing out the time stamps (personally I don't have a problem uploading that info). I use viking (http://sourceforge.net/projects/viking/) you can use it to split tracks, get nice graphics about altitude and speed, and also to check against osm maps, (Add new map layer, select osm maps, alpha 150 or so, and autodownload maps) and also you can submit the gpx to osm from the same program. The only thing i miss is to merge several gpx layers -- Celso González (PerroVerd) http://mitago.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] clean gpx tracks
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 5:35 AM, Lambert Carsten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I tried to upload a couple of gpx tracks that I had cleaned up with Josm. They were refused with a message that seems to suggest thy are missing time stamps (possibly missing altitude). Why does openstreetmap want timestamps? There is no reason for this. I want to clean up my tracks to prevent uploading garbage from when I forgot to switch off my logger. I know in time (in theory at least) the garbage will be lost as noise behind good data. But where I collect data (mostly Amsterdam) there is already so much garbage and bad tracks in many area's rendering those tracks useless. In other area's there are no tracks at all and and these are exactly the area's I am trying to locate and track. Also I hope by adding more good tracks the balance will tip in favor of the good data. What is the reasoning here? There is also a privacy advantage not uploading the unnecessary time stamps. I am sure there are many that hesitate to upload tracks for privacy reasons. If the problem is with the missing altitude: some of my original trackpoints had an altitude of of over 6km in the Netherlands!! I can solve my problem by not uploading my tracks anymore and just use them personally to enter osm data. At least with my own tracks I know which bits are good, which are so so and which bits are bad. But I thought the whole point was to share all this data. Maybe someone can point me to some editor with which I can easily clean up the tracks without clearing out the time stamps (personally I don't have a problem uploading that info). Lambert Carsten Check out Viking (viking.sf.net). I've used it to clean up my tracks (for the privacy reasons you mention). It supports OSM tiles for background map display, and allows you to upload your tracks to OSM from within the program, too. Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] clean gpx tracks
Lambert Carsten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is also a privacy advantage not uploading the unnecessary time stamps. I am sure there are many that hesitate to upload tracks for privacy reasons. A while ago I wrote a small shell script which did the following things: - It removes trackpoints in a number of defined polygons (around your house, around your workplace, ...) - It changes all timestamps by a random time interval (one interval for all timestamps, of course). - It removes cmt, desc and name tags from trackpoints. - It removes waypoints and routes from the file. - It simplifies the route by discarding trackpoints which are in a straight line. The script is probably not particularly well written and it depends xsltproc and gpsbabel. An output directory and the polygonal areas to exclude are defined directly in the file. I put the script on my wiki page in case someone is interested in it: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/User:Xoff Maybe someone can point me to some editor with which I can easily clean up the tracks without clearing out the time stamps (personally I don't have a problem uploading that info). I am using viking on Linux (http://sourceforge.net/projects/viking/). It seems to be in an relatively early development stage and I find the user interface a bit peculiar, but it allows me editing gpx tracks and waypoints while preserving the timestamps. It also supports underlaying the gps data with maps/sat images. Cheers, Christoph ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] German Supreme Court uses OpenStreetMap
On Thursday 25 Sep 2008 6:48:22 pm Jochen Topf wrote: The German Supreme Court (Bundesverfassungsgericht) uses OpenStreetMap maps on its web site: http://www.bundesverfassungsgericht.de/organisation/anfahrt.html Jochen w00t -- regards Kenneth Gonsalves Associate, NRC-FOSS http://nrcfosshelpline.in/web/ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
Greetings, The argument that we map street center lines and add width= or est_width= tags to give them an area is persuasive. Probably because that's what I already believed. ;-) We can also estimate width by using the highway= or lanes= tags. Mapping a car park to its edge (sidewalk, curb and gutter, etc.) also gives us something with an area. I suppose ways could even be drawn to show the entries to the car park. So... applications that use the data (renderers, etc.) should be able to deal with the case where the street center line is close to, but not coincident with, the bounds of an area such as a car park. The applications should also deal with the case where (part of) the bounds of an area is also a highway or waterway. Consider the case where a political boundary is defined by the center of a river. A single zero-width way serves as both the river center line and the political boundary. We have a similar case where a highway is carefully designed to follow a political boundary. It looks like we're back to map what's on the ground and our data consumers will use or ignore it as appropriate. -- - Joseph Scanlan http://www.qsl.net/n7xsd +1-702-455-3679 http://n7xsd.dyndns.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] (work) (not work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] - So he went inside there to take on what he found. But he never escaped them, for who can escape what he desires? --Tony Banks of Genesis in The Lady Lies ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] German Supreme Court uses OpenStreetMap
2008/9/25 Kenneth Gonsalves [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thursday 25 Sep 2008 6:48:22 pm Jochen Topf wrote: The German Supreme Court (Bundesverfassungsgericht) uses OpenStreetMap maps on its web site: http://www.bundesverfassungsgericht.de/organisation/anfahrt.html Jochen w00t Great :) They could have used the mlat/mlon like that ;) http://openstreetmap.org/?mlat=49.01279mlon=8.40148zoom=15layers=B000FTF for a proper visibility. Someone who speak german could tell them... ? -- Steven Le Roux Jabber-ID : [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0x39494CCB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2FF7 226B 552E 4709 03F0 6281 72D7 A010 3949 4CCB ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] German Supreme Court uses OpenStreetMap
Jochen Topf skrev: The German Supreme Court (Bundesverfassungsgericht) uses OpenStreetMap maps on its web site: http://www.bundesverfassungsgericht.de/organisation/anfahrt.html Jochen Nice... Maybe we can get one of their judges to look over the licenses pro bono, in gratitude for their use of OSM. Frederik, can't you give them a call ;) /Just for the record, the above was a joke - In case we have Germans and Swedes without humour reading the list :P Dutch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] sponsor letter draft
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Gregory [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: I called Garmin to sponsor my sub-project of OSM ( http://www.livingwithdragons.com) and the U.K. marketing manager hadn't heard of OpenStreetMap. Later I found Garmin have some guidelines on their website for sponsoring a fund raising project that makes use of GPS receivers (they will supply the required GPSes if you meet the guidelines and contact them). I don't know about the other manufacturers, they all seemed to big and US-centred to care about me. Who did you talk to at Garmin? Over here in the states we're trying to get a group of GPS receivers donated for mapping parties and perhaps your contact would be helpful to us. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] German Supreme Court uses OpenStreetMap
J.D. Schmidt wrote: /Just for the record, the above was a joke - In case we have Germans and Swedes without humour reading the list :P It's been pointed out on IRC that the reason the German Supreme Court was looking into OSM in the first place is that, under pressure from talk-de, they actually want to enshrine BAN POTLATCH!!!??!!lolwtfbbq into German law. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] clean gpx tracks
Lambert Carsten wrote: This decision needs more thought. Although I personally don't have a privacy issue here there are clearly those that do Just don't set your track as public - then the timestamps won't be exposed. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] clean gpx tracks
On Thursday 25 September 2008 17:21:59 Richard Fairhurst wrote: Lambert Carsten wrote: This decision needs more thought. Although I personally don't have a privacy issue here there are clearly those that do Just don't set your track as public - then the timestamps won't be exposed. I am not looking to just solve my own personal 'problem'. What concerns me is that someone has made a decision that doesn't seem to be motivated and it is unclear (to me at least) who made it. I think that is a problem for an organization like openstreetmap. The issue itself is not insignificant for more than one reason. My concern is about good data and this 'rule' makes it a lot harder for me to upload clean data. Others might be concerned about privacy and change the data. And others again might not make their data available to save themselves the hassle of changing the data. Lambert ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] clean gpx tracks
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Lambert Carsten [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday 25 September 2008 17:21:59 Richard Fairhurst wrote: Lambert Carsten wrote: This decision needs more thought. Although I personally don't have a privacy issue here there are clearly those that do Just don't set your track as public - then the timestamps won't be exposed. I am not looking to just solve my own personal 'problem'. What concerns me is that someone has made a decision that doesn't seem to be motivated and it is unclear (to me at least) who made it. I think that is a problem for an organization like openstreetmap. The issue itself is not insignificant for more than one reason. My concern is about good data and this 'rule' makes it a lot harder for me to upload clean data. Others might be concerned about privacy and change the data. And others again might not make their data available to save themselves the hassle of changing the data. Lambert The GPX tracks are intended to show the basis for the ways and other data that is in the database, so I think one motivation for timestamps hearkens back to a desire to show your work to defend the source of OSM data against potential future claims of copyright infringement. In other words, with timestamps, it's more plausible that it was collected with an actual GPS receiver, instead of mocked up into GPX from some tainted source (with a license not compatible with OSM). Obviously timestamps could be synthesized (and I think there are even scripts that will do it for you if you want to upload your timestamp-less GPX tracks to OSM), but anyway, that's one reason I seem to recall why timestamps are required. Karl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] German Supreme Court uses OpenStreetMap
Richard Fairhurst skrev: J.D. Schmidt wrote: /Just for the record, the above was a joke - In case we have Germans and Swedes without humour reading the list :P It's been pointed out on IRC that the reason the German Supreme Court was looking into OSM in the first place is that, under pressure from talk-de, they actually want to enshrine BAN POTLATCH!!!??!!lolwtfbbq into German law. cheers Richard And rightly so ! First Germany, then the rest of EU. There can be only one ! JOSM forever!! :P Dutch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mapnik not displaying
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 12:59 PM, David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...more OSM coming soon is a tile served in response to a request, isn't it? I often get them when the server takes too long. So the problem must be server side. Not necessarily. The 404.png is fetched by the JS API when the javascript gets a 404 from the tileserver or otherwise can't fetch the requested tile. The 404 tile lives on www (at http://www.openstreetmap.org/openlayers/img/404.png ) so potentially if you have tile.osm.org blocked/firewalled somehow the javascript will show you the 404.png instead. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] clean gpx tracks
On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 5:01 PM, Karl Newman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The GPX tracks are intended to show the basis for the ways and other data that is in the database, so I think one motivation for timestamps hearkens back to a desire to show your work to defend the source of OSM data against potential future claims of copyright infringement. In other words, with timestamps, it's more plausible that it was collected with an actual GPS receiver, instead of mocked up into GPX from some tainted source (with a license not compatible with OSM). Obviously timestamps could be synthesized (and I think there are even scripts that will do it for you if you want to upload your timestamp-less GPX tracks to OSM), but anyway, that's one reason I seem to recall why timestamps are required. Yes, that's the reason. Whoever wrote that stuff on the wiki page was making it up (shock horror). It's a simple hurdle to discourage using one of the many trace-over-X-maps websites and then uploading the end result into OSM. The stuff about using timestamps to work out speeds is inaccurate. Lambert, it's really worth your while not to believe everything that you read on the wiki, the quality of stuff there is often particularly poor. Nor even believe everything on the mailing lists, this warning (perhaps?) included! Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] clean gpx tracks
Lambert Carsten wrote: Sent: 25 September 2008 5:36 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] clean gpx tracks On Thursday 25 September 2008 18:01:36 Karl wrote: The GPX tracks are intended to show the basis for the ways and other data that is in the database, so I think one motivation for timestamps hearkens back to a desire to show your work to defend the source of OSM data against potential future claims of copyright infringement. In other words, with timestamps, it's more plausible that it was collected with an actual GPS receiver, instead of mocked up into GPX from some tainted source (with a license not compatible with OSM). Obviously timestamps could be synthesized (and I think there are even scripts that will do it for you if you want to upload your timestamp-less GPX tracks to OSM), but anyway, that's one reason I seem to recall why timestamps are required. I understand that reasoning but it is not enough to impose the timestamps requirement in my view. Anybody who is going to go through the trouble to create fake gps tracks most likely has enough motivation to create fake time stamps, enter copyrighted material directly. The rule doesn't protect opentstreetmap in any way. It is not intended to protect OSM against infringement at all. It's there as a statement about the ethos of the project that you don't upload data from copyright sources. Of course we all know it's possible to circumvent, but that goes against the ethos of the project and hence the community wouldn't stand for abuse if it was spotted. As far as I am aware the requirement for a timestamp was established by the project founder SteveC when he first set up the system all those years ago, it's engrained within the very basis of the project and thus unlikely to ever change. As has been pointed out, if you don't want to expose the timestamp simply don't make your trace public. Anyone wanting to know about the map data will be looking at the history of the data item for the contributor details rather than who made perhaps one of the many GPX tracks that lie underneath. Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Kosmos 2.2
Hello mappers, I just want to inform you that a new version of Kosmos is out. For those interested, please read my blog post (http://igorbrejc.net/openstreetmap/kosmos-22) for more information about what's new in this release. Best regards, Igor -- http://igorbrejc.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] [ANN] GPSdisplay v0.1.5
Hi! This is v0.1.5 of GPSdisplay, downloadable at wget http://lug-owl.de/~jbglaw/gpsdisplay/gpsdisplay-latest.tar.gz git clone http://lug-owl.de/~jbglaw/gpsdisplay.git GPSdisplay is a small application using Mapnik and thus PostGIS to display your current position, north-wise, with the track you already left behind you. Position fixes are read off the system DBUS (from gpsd), a GPX file with the positions as well as POIs can be written (think of here's a post box, traffic lights, ...), Bugs for OpenStreetBugs can be submitted. It's also nice for testing osm.xml changes. Suggestions, complaints and patches welcome :) MfG, JBG -- Jan-Benedict Glaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] +49-172-7608481 Signature of: Fortschritt bedeutet, einen Schritt so zu machen, the second : daß man den nächsten auch noch machen kann. signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Kosmos 2.2
Igor, I just want to inform you that a new version of Kosmos is out. For those interested, please read my blog post (http://igorbrejc.net/openstreetmap/kosmos-22) for more information about what's new in this release. I'm not a Kosmos user myself but sometimes I get queries from people who want to render their own maps and depending on what type of user they are I tend to send them in the Kosmos direction. Recently there was one guy who wanted to do a rendering of the whole of Germany, and I wasn't sure whether Kosmos could do that or not. Can you tell us something about the resource usage of Kosmos - if I feed it the whole of Germany, will it work but be slow, or will it break because it cannot load it all into memory? Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] OSM Mapnik not displaying
On Thu, 2008-09-25 at 12:28 +0100, Chris Morley wrote: Can somebody help to find out what has gone wrong with my system? (Windows XP, ZoneAlarm Firewall). With Firefox 3 (which is generally working as expected) the Mapnik tiles at http://www.openstreetmap.org don't display - just the logo and ...more OSM coming soon (yuk). Osmarender, the Cyclemap, NoNames all display ok. With Internet Explorer and Firefox 2, Mapnik is ok, but it is not with some other programs, http://www.informationfreeway.org, http://geo.topf.org/comparison/index.html and http://sautter.com/map/. This behaviour may have started when I had to re-install Firefox 2 to get the Yahoo image background in JOSM. The firewall doesn't report blocking anything relevant, as far as I can see. Any suggestions? You say other applications work. This makes me think that maybe you accidentally added tile.openstreetmap.org to either adblock or blocked images from this domain. If all else fails, try creating a new profile. http://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Managing+profiles The Mapnik layer definitely works fine in FF3. I use it all the time. Jon ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] clean gpx tracks
On Thursday 25 September 2008 18:53:00 Andy Robinson (blackadder-lists) wrote: It is not intended to protect OSM against infringement at all. It's there as a statement about the ethos of the project that you don't upload data from copyright sources. Of course we all know it's possible to circumvent, but that goes against the ethos of the project and hence the community wouldn't stand for abuse if it was spotted. That is why we want all the tracks that we can get so anybody trying to 'infect' the data with copyrighted material doesn't have a hope in hell since there is so much more from non copyright sources. As far as I am aware the requirement for a timestamp was established by the project founder SteveC when he first set up the system all those years ago, it's engrained within the very basis of the project and thus unlikely to ever change. I really don't get this. Although I am not a programmer I find it very hard to believe that the 'importer' cannot be changed to accept tracks without time stamp data. O.k. so the decision was made at a very early stage, so that is why there is no real record of it. But if it is a bad decision (with hindsight of course and under different circumstances: geotagged photos, Yahoo imagery etc)), that is to say it has negative effects, it seems only logical to change it. As has been pointed out, if you don't want to expose the timestamp simply don't make your trace public. What I personally want is to upload clean data because it helps me as a mapper when there is as little noise as possible in the gps data. So therefore I don't want to burdon others with my noisy data. I want to upload my tracks because when I enter data I like every bit of confirmation that my data is good, that I can get. Obviously if I like others to upload their tracks I need to upload mine, that's the basis of why a project like this works! If I could cut out the garbage out of my tracks as easily as I can in Josm but without destroying the timestamp info the issue that triggered this 'quest' would be gone (or rather would not even have come up). However the other issues I hadn't thought about before remain. If people are not uploading their tracks because of privacy issues it is a loss to everyone. The question with any 'rule' always remains: is it useful, is it adding or taking away? Anyone wanting to know about the map data will be looking at the history of the data item for the contributor details rather than who made perhaps one of the many GPX tracks that lie underneath. Absolutely, common sense approach is best! Lambert ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] [Announcement] talk-pt - Portugal
There is now a talk-pt - Portugal specific topics and discussion (in Portuguese) - mailing list available. Thank you to Filipe Roque for initiating and hosting this forum. For details on how to subscribe to this and other country, language, and topic-specific OSM mailing lists, see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Mailing_lists Mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] German Supreme Court uses OpenStreetMap
Actually, their black circle and blackened buildings stand out a lot better than the little icon in your sample, so their choice has its advantages. Could OSM show a particular place in a way more comparable to what the Bundesverfassungsgericht did? It should be noted that they are serving a static image which they have edited. If you would like to serve your own version of the slippy map (just a few lines of HTML which call the OpenLayers javascript) you can place additional items as overlays to the maps. These can include: 1) PNG images used a markers. 2) Polygons/Circles. 3) OSM routes/ways (although these must be hosted locally or proxied locally as they have to come from your own http server). You could blacken the building outline by overlaying it's way ontop of the slippy map. If you are unable to host your own slippy map for some reason, maybe the nice people at the OSM slippy map could provide a number of marker styles (a 'mstyle=2' for example in the URL) to highlight in different ways. This could be PNGs of a flag, a small circle, a large circle, etc... Cheers, Mungewell ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Parking aisle as boundary of car park not showing
My main problem with mapping areas to the centre line (I'm not really counting landuse here, its possibly an exception) is the farcical situations to which it leads. The buildings example is the best: it's not uncommon at all to have a road abutted on both sides by buildings. If we map them to the centreline then we possibly increase their size by 50%, and happily record that they share a wall. Obviously they don't, and if you somehow figure out there's also a road in there, you might be able to reconstruct the real situation given a road width (which very few people actually record). One option may be to differentiate between; - a road, represented by a line and - a corridor, represented by an area. The corridor would be that area of land over which the relevant road authority has responsibility and control. Ie the road authority is in charge of not only the bitumen, but also the grass verge, drains, signs, flower stalls, etc... The road would exist inside the corridor, in fact multiple roads can exist inside a single corridor (think of complex intersections). Or a corridor could have no roads at all (think of a road that is planned, but not yet constructed). The road line would still be used for routing, but the road corridor would be used to define that area which is exclusively road, and which neighbouring features butt up against. But now we are talking about a cadastre map, not a street map. nick *** WARNING: This e-mail (including any attachments) may contain legally privileged, confidential or private information and may be protected by copyright. You may only use it if you are the person(s) it was intended to be sent to and if you use it in an authorised way. No one is allowed to use, review, alter, transmit, disclose, distribute, print or copy this e-mail without appropriate authority. If this e-mail was not intended for you and was sent to you by mistake, please telephone or e-mail me immediately, destroy any hardcopies of this e-mail and delete it and any copies of it from your computer system. Any right which the sender may have under copyright law, and any legal privilege and confidentiality attached to this e-mail is not waived or destroyed by that mistake. It is your responsibility to ensure that this e-mail does not contain and is not affected by computer viruses, defects or interference by third parties or replication problems (including incompatibility with your computer system). Opinions contained in this e-mail do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the Queensland Department of Main Roads, Queensland Transport or Maritime Safety Queensland, or endorsed organisations utilising the same infrastructure. *** ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Funding NLNet - initiatief gevraagd.
Ja dat zou zeker jammer zijn. Ik zit te springen om luchtfoto's van Ede... kunnen we die ermee kopen? Geert. On Thu, 2008-09-25 at 01:48 +0200, Jeroen Dekkers wrote: Beste mensen, Ik zie op dit moment niemand naar voren stappen die het voortouw wilt nemen. Martijn heeft geen tijd en ik heb er zelf ook de tijd niet voor. Als niemand het doet betekent het gewoon dat het geld terug gaat naar NLnet. Dus bij deze ook een laatste oproep van mij. Als je trouwens een goed idee hebt en het valt niet onder het voorstel wat nu op de wiki staat, dan is het eventueel ook mogelijk om het geld aan andere dingen te besteden, mits NLnet hier natuurlijk mee akkoord gaat. Ik zou het heel jammer vinden als we het geld niet uitgeven... Groeten, Jeroen Dekkers At Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:16:33 +0200, Martijn van Exel wrote: Hoi allemaal, Bij deze een (laatste?) oproep om een bestemming te organiseren voor het geld van NLNet. We hebben in de lente 15.000 euro gekregen waarvan er nu pas zo'n 1.000 zijn besteed. Het geld is bestemd voor software- ontwikkeling langs de lijnen beschreven in het voorstel zoals dat op de wiki staat [1]. Diverse pogingen om het in internationale context goed te besteden hebben geen constructief resultaat gehad, vooral omdat er niemand echt het voortouw wil nemen. Vandaar nu een nieuwe oproep in NL-context. Wie heeft er zin èn tijd om een project dat past in de geest van het voorstel uit te werken en te trekken? Het zou zonde zijn als we het geld grotendeels moeten teruggeven. Martijn ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Funding NLNet - initiatief gevraagd.
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008, Jeroen Dekkers wrote: Ik zie op dit moment niemand naar voren stappen die het voortouw wilt nemen. Martijn heeft geen tijd en ik heb er zelf ook de tijd niet voor. Als niemand het doet betekent het gewoon dat het geld terug gaat naar NLnet. Dus bij deze ook een laatste oproep van mij. Als je trouwens een goed idee hebt en het valt niet onder het voorstel wat nu op de wiki staat, dan is het eventueel ook mogelijk om het geld aan andere dingen te besteden, mits NLnet hier natuurlijk mee akkoord gaat. Ik zou het heel jammer vinden als we het geld niet uitgeven... Zo ver ik weet is Milo bezig? Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Funding NLNet - initiatief gevraagd.
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008, Geert Schuring wrote: Ja dat zou zeker jammer zijn. Ik zit te springen om luchtfoto's van Ede... kunnen we die ermee kopen? Als je nog even wacht hebben we daar iets anders voor ;) Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Vandalisme of een foutje?
Myckel Habets wrote: Ik zie ook regelmatig situaties waar iemand een weg ingetekend heeft, maar dat de aansluiting met andere wegen niet verbonden worden (je ziet het pas als je er met de node gaat slepen). Ik weet niet of dit problemen met routering kan geven, maar ik verbeter ze altijd even voor dat geval). Ja dat geeft subiet problemen met routering, dus graag blijven oplossen! Deze fout komt volgens mij het meeste voor bij de online editor gebruikers. Bij mijn weten is het erg moeilijk om dit voor elkaar te krijgen in JOSM. Wat betreft het foutje van Geert; dit lijkt me een onbedoelde wijziging van een gebruiker die is gaan slepen terwijl hij/zij de map wilde verschuiven... ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] [OSM-talk] YOURS now supports route using only cycleroutes - Update
Heb je daarna wel de Gosmore .pak file opnieuw aangemaakt (gosmore rebuild)? Die config file wordt alleen gebruikt tijdens de rebuild. Ik denk het wel. Dat kan maar dan bepaald je dus je tagging door de huidige standaard in Gosmore, dat lijkt me ook niet de bedoeling... Op kote termijn is het gewoon het beste om op elke weg waar niet gefietst mag worden dit als zodanig te taggen. Die informatie klopt dan en is altijd geldig, wat er ook voor uiteindelijke oplossing komt. Ik zie niet in waarom op grote schaal informatie toevoegen aan de database beter is dan het fixen van gosmore. Het is in josm nu soms al moeilijk om door de bomen (AND tags, creator tags) het bos te zien. Verkeersborden kunnen overbodig zijn. Dan zou je ze eventueel weg kunnen laten. Hoewel ik me ook voor kan stellen dat OSM voor een wegbeheerder een basis kan vormen voor een consistency check. Het zou natuurlijk ideaal zijn als de wegbeheerder wijzigingen in verkeersborden gewoon aan zou leveren. Ik zie niet in hoe alle verkeersborden samen met de verkeersregels te weini g informatie kunnen bevatten. Dat zeg je juist *met de verkeersregels*, die regels in Nederland kent Gosmore dus (nog) niet... Dat heeft twee kanten: 1) er geen config file Nederland. Dat is geen probleem, die kunnen we gewoon gaan maken. 2) Maar het grotere probleem: we kunnen de huidige verkeersregels niet uitdrukken in de gosmore config file vanwege beperking in gosmore. Punt twee is denk ik het belangrijkste. Dat kan gefixd worden zonder dat iedereen het eens hoeft te zijn over de uiteindelijke oplossing voor dit probleem. Voor ieder land een definitie was ook mijn idee maar daar is nog niet iedereen het mee eens en dus (nog) geen standaard. Het zou denk ik handig zijn als gosmore ook krachtig genoeg zou zijn dat he t ook een realistische optie is. Hoe bedoel je dat? Een oplossing voor het maken van onderscheid tussen de verschillende landen is niet alleen nodig voor Gosmore maar voor elke routplanner die iets met OSM data wil doen. Zonder zo'n definitie kan een routeplanner alleen maar een gok doen. Dat klopt. Maar het lijkt me helemaal niet logisch dat er heel veel routing engines komen. Misschien naast gosmore nog 1 of 2, maar dan heb je het denk ik wel gehad. De rest is denk ik user interface. Gosmore is n van de (zoniet d) krachtigste opensource routeplanners die ik ken en die iets zinnigs kan doen met OSM data. Als je een beter alternatief hebt hoor ik dat graag :) Ik denk dat het juist van belang is om gosmore verder te ontwikkelen in een richting die voor 'ons' gunstig is. Ja, als er binnen OSM geen overeenstemming komt over hoe de verkeersregels van verschillende landen tot uiting komen in de data dan zullen we dat moeten doen. Tenzij je alleen maar naar Nederland wilt kijken en de rest buiten beschouwing laat. Ik denk dat je als demonstratie project best een 'gosmore-nl' zou kunnen maken die config files heeft voor Nederland en een default voor de rest van de wereld, die dan in Nederland de nederlandse regels toepast. Ik denk dat dan al gauw mensen uit andere landen ook config files gaan maken. Stel dat er een nieuwe regel komt dat bromfietsen wel op een autoweg mogen behalve als er een bord staat dat het niet mag? Dan zou het automatische update script waarschijnlijk op alle snelwegen moped=yes aanmaken (of moped=no verwijderen) en moeten alle stukken die hiervan afwijken opnieuw getagd worden. Dat lijkt mij toch een situatie die voorkomen moet worden. Als je 1 keer een weg invoert inclusief verkeersborden dan wil je toch niet later die weg nog een keer langs moeten lopen omdat iemand een script gedraaid heeft? Er zijn natuurlijk wel andere mogelijkheden. Je zou bijv. alles kunnen taggen met 'nl:' tags, en dan automatisch de echte tags genereren. Dus bijv. een nl:weg=autosnelweg, en dan automatisch highway=motorway, bicycle=no, etc. toevoegen. En dan bijv. een nl:motorvoertuigen=verboden of nl:maximumsnelheid, die dan omgezet worden in wat het op dat moment betekent. Als dat doet dan weet je redelijk zeker dat de output van scripts ook echt correct is. Alleen moet dan iedere editor config files hebben voor verschillende landen. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Funding NLNet - initiatief gevraagd.
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008, Rob wrote: Op 25 september 2008 08:56 schreef Stefan de Konink [EMAIL PROTECTED] het volgende: On Thu, 25 Sep 2008, Geert Schuring wrote: Ja dat zou zeker jammer zijn. Ik zit te springen om luchtfoto's van Ede... kunnen we die ermee kopen? Als je nog even wacht hebben we daar iets anders voor ;) 15.000 dollar is genoeg om je wens te doen uitkomen ;) dan schieten we overal luchtfoto's Voor 100.000 kopen we onze eigen Cessna Skyhawk :P Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Funding NLNet - initiatief gevraagd.
Ja, dat klopt. Hij heeft ook contact gehad met NLNet zover ik weet? Milo, kun je ons eens updaten over hoe dit gaat? Martijn Op 25 sep 2008, om 08:55 heeft Stefan de Konink het volgende geschreven: On Thu, 25 Sep 2008, Jeroen Dekkers wrote: Ik zie op dit moment niemand naar voren stappen die het voortouw wilt nemen. Martijn heeft geen tijd en ik heb er zelf ook de tijd niet voor. Als niemand het doet betekent het gewoon dat het geld terug gaat naar NLnet. Dus bij deze ook een laatste oproep van mij. Als je trouwens een goed idee hebt en het valt niet onder het voorstel wat nu op de wiki staat, dan is het eventueel ook mogelijk om het geld aan andere dingen te besteden, mits NLnet hier natuurlijk mee akkoord gaat. Ik zou het heel jammer vinden als we het geld niet uitgeven... Zo ver ik weet is Milo bezig? Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] [OSM-talk] YOURS now supports route using only cycleroutes - Update
Dit is een persbericht waard !!! Ik heb er op de Software Freedom Day-webstek melding van gemaakt. -- Met vriendelijke groet, Bas de Lange 06 - 166 26 950 Software Freedom Day Nederland hoofdorganisator Bringing freedom to a street near you! http://www.softwarefreedomday.eu begin:vcard fn:Lange n:de;Bas email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] open communities drink @ picnic
Beste Talk'ers, Ter herinnering, vanmiddag vanaf 17:00 uur zijn de OpenStreetMappers welkom tijdens de Open Communities Drink in Amsterdam tijdens PICNIC. Zoran Kovacevic wrote: Uit de ISOC mailinglist: === En natuurlijk ben je - kaartje of niet - van harte welkom bij de open communities drink op donderdag 25 september 2008 vanaf 17.00 uur. Naast Internet Society Nederland zullen onder meer Open-CI, OpenDoc Society, Gridforum.nl, OpenDomein, nl.OpenOffice.org en NLnet acte de presence geven. Lokatie: Westergasterras, Amsterdam. Gratis toegankelijk. Meer info: http://www.picnicnetwork.org/page/24486/en Met vriendelijke groet, Internet Society Nederland === (op de site staat Wibautstraat 150, 1091 GR Amsterdam als locatie) -- Met vriendelijke groet, Bas de Lange 06 - 166 26 950 Software Freedom Day Nederland hoofdorganisator Bringing freedom to a street near you! http://www.softwarefreedomday.eu begin:vcard fn:Lange n:de;Bas email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] open communities drink @ picnic
Ik zal daar m'n gezicht eens laten zien. Tot vanmiddag! Floris Bas de Lange schreef: Beste Talk'ers, Ter herinnering, vanmiddag vanaf 17:00 uur zijn de OpenStreetMappers welkom tijdens de Open Communities Drink in Amsterdam tijdens PICNIC. Zoran Kovacevic wrote: Uit de ISOC mailinglist: === En natuurlijk ben je - kaartje of niet - van harte welkom bij de open communities drink op donderdag 25 september 2008 vanaf 17.00 uur. Naast Internet Society Nederland zullen onder meer Open-CI, OpenDoc Society, Gridforum.nl, OpenDomein, nl.OpenOffice.org en NLnet acte de presence geven. Lokatie: Westergasterras, Amsterdam. Gratis toegankelijk. Meer info: http://www.picnicnetwork.org/page/24486/en Met vriendelijke groet, Internet Society Nederland === (op de site staat Wibautstraat 150, 1091 GR Amsterdam als locatie) -- Met vriendelijke groet, Bas de Lange 06 - 166 26 950 Software Freedom Day Nederland hoofdorganisator Bringing freedom to a street near you! http://www.softwarefreedomday.eu ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] open communities drink @ picnic
Ik neem aan dat het op de Pazzanistraat 41 is? Floris Looijesteijn schreef: Ik zal daar m'n gezicht eens laten zien. Tot vanmiddag! Floris Bas de Lange schreef: Beste Talk'ers, Ter herinnering, vanmiddag vanaf 17:00 uur zijn de OpenStreetMappers welkom tijdens de Open Communities Drink in Amsterdam tijdens PICNIC. Zoran Kovacevic wrote: Uit de ISOC mailinglist: === En natuurlijk ben je - kaartje of niet - van harte welkom bij de open communities drink op donderdag 25 september 2008 vanaf 17.00 uur. Naast Internet Society Nederland zullen onder meer Open-CI, OpenDoc Society, Gridforum.nl, OpenDomein, nl.OpenOffice.org en NLnet acte de presence geven. Lokatie: Westergasterras, Amsterdam. Gratis toegankelijk. Meer info: http://www.picnicnetwork.org/page/24486/en Met vriendelijke groet, Internet Society Nederland === (op de site staat Wibautstraat 150, 1091 GR Amsterdam als locatie) -- Met vriendelijke groet, Bas de Lange 06 - 166 26 950 Software Freedom Day Nederland hoofdorganisator Bringing freedom to a street near you! http://www.softwarefreedomday.eu ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] open communities drink @ picnic
Yup! On Thursday 25 September 2008 20:06:35 Floris Looijesteijn wrote: Hmm, niet echt bekenden gezien daar, dus wat folders gedropped en een biertje met mezelf gedronken en daarna maar weer richting huis. Ik ga binnenkort toch maar eens werk maken van de t-shirts zodat ik wat herkenbaarder was geweest. Meer geinteresseerden? Groet, Floris Floris Looijesteijn schreef: Ik neem aan dat het op de Pazzanistraat 41 is? Floris Looijesteijn schreef: Ik zal daar m'n gezicht eens laten zien. Tot vanmiddag! Floris Bas de Lange schreef: Beste Talk'ers, Ter herinnering, vanmiddag vanaf 17:00 uur zijn de OpenStreetMappers welkom tijdens de Open Communities Drink in Amsterdam tijdens PICNIC. Zoran Kovacevic wrote: Uit de ISOC mailinglist: === En natuurlijk ben je - kaartje of niet - van harte welkom bij de open communities drink op donderdag 25 september 2008 vanaf 17.00 uur. Naast Internet Society Nederland zullen onder meer Open-CI, OpenDoc Society, Gridforum.nl, OpenDomein, nl.OpenOffice.org en NLnet acte de presence geven. Lokatie: Westergasterras, Amsterdam. Gratis toegankelijk. Meer info: http://www.picnicnetwork.org/page/24486/en Met vriendelijke groet, Internet Society Nederland === (op de site staat Wibautstraat 150, 1091 GR Amsterdam als locatie) -- Met vriendelijke groet, Bas de Lange 06 - 166 26 950 Software Freedom Day Nederland hoofdorganisator Bringing freedom to a street near you! http://www.softwarefreedomday.eu ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] open communities drink @ picnic
In your letter dated Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:06:35 +0200 (CEST) you wrote: Hmm, niet echt bekenden gezien daar, dus wat folders gedropped en een biertje met mezelf gedronken en daarna maar weer richting huis. Ik ga binnenkort toch maar eens werk maken van de t-shirts zodat ik wat herkenbaarder was geweest. Meer geinteresseerden? Ik was er even langs gefietst, en ik heb geen daar geen enkele organisatie herkend. Er waren voornamelijk wat groepjes mensen die elkaar leken te kennen. Dus het is me niet helemaal duidelijk hoe de organisatoren die borrel bedoeld hebben. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] open communities drink @ picnic
Floris, T-shirts zijn altijd welkom ;).. laat maar weten wat het kost.. wil je een webshop?.. zetten we die even in elkaar.. Kan het trouwens gesponsord worden via NLNet? of moet dat echt software zijn? gr, Daniel Op 25 sep 2008, om 20:06 heeft Floris Looijesteijn het volgende geschreven: Hmm, niet echt bekenden gezien daar, dus wat folders gedropped en een biertje met mezelf gedronken en daarna maar weer richting huis. Ik ga binnenkort toch maar eens werk maken van de t-shirts zodat ik wat herkenbaarder was geweest. Meer geinteresseerden? Groet, Floris Floris Looijesteijn schreef: Ik neem aan dat het op de Pazzanistraat 41 is? Floris Looijesteijn schreef: Ik zal daar m'n gezicht eens laten zien. Tot vanmiddag! Floris Bas de Lange schreef: Beste Talk'ers, Ter herinnering, vanmiddag vanaf 17:00 uur zijn de OpenStreetMappers welkom tijdens de Open Communities Drink in Amsterdam tijdens PICNIC. Zoran Kovacevic wrote: Uit de ISOC mailinglist: === En natuurlijk ben je - kaartje of niet - van harte welkom bij de open communities drink op donderdag 25 september 2008 vanaf 17.00 uur. Naast Internet Society Nederland zullen onder meer Open-CI, OpenDoc Society, Gridforum.nl, OpenDomein, nl.OpenOffice.org en NLnet acte de presence geven. Lokatie: Westergasterras, Amsterdam. Gratis toegankelijk. Meer info: http://www.picnicnetwork.org/page/24486/en Met vriendelijke groet, Internet Society Nederland === (op de site staat Wibautstraat 150, 1091 GR Amsterdam als locatie) -- Met vriendelijke groet, Bas de Lange 06 - 166 26 950 Software Freedom Day Nederland hoofdorganisator Bringing freedom to a street near you! http://www.softwarefreedomday.eu ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] open communities drink @ picnic
Als het gesponsord wordt hou ik me aanbevolen voor de klompsokjes. On Thursday 25 September 2008 21:32:48 Daniel Paulus wrote: Floris, T-shirts zijn altijd welkom ;).. laat maar weten wat het kost.. wil je een webshop?.. zetten we die even in elkaar.. Kan het trouwens gesponsord worden via NLNet? of moet dat echt software zijn? gr, Daniel Op 25 sep 2008, om 20:06 heeft Floris Looijesteijn het volgende geschreven: Hmm, niet echt bekenden gezien daar, dus wat folders gedropped en een biertje met mezelf gedronken en daarna maar weer richting huis. Ik ga binnenkort toch maar eens werk maken van de t-shirts zodat ik wat herkenbaarder was geweest. Meer geinteresseerden? Groet, Floris Floris Looijesteijn schreef: Ik neem aan dat het op de Pazzanistraat 41 is? Floris Looijesteijn schreef: Ik zal daar m'n gezicht eens laten zien. Tot vanmiddag! Floris Bas de Lange schreef: Beste Talk'ers, Ter herinnering, vanmiddag vanaf 17:00 uur zijn de OpenStreetMappers welkom tijdens de Open Communities Drink in Amsterdam tijdens PICNIC. Zoran Kovacevic wrote: Uit de ISOC mailinglist: === En natuurlijk ben je - kaartje of niet - van harte welkom bij de open communities drink op donderdag 25 september 2008 vanaf 17.00 uur. Naast Internet Society Nederland zullen onder meer Open-CI, OpenDoc Society, Gridforum.nl, OpenDomein, nl.OpenOffice.org en NLnet acte de presence geven. Lokatie: Westergasterras, Amsterdam. Gratis toegankelijk. Meer info: http://www.picnicnetwork.org/page/24486/en Met vriendelijke groet, Internet Society Nederland === (op de site staat Wibautstraat 150, 1091 GR Amsterdam als locatie) -- Met vriendelijke groet, Bas de Lange 06 - 166 26 950 Software Freedom Day Nederland hoofdorganisator Bringing freedom to a street near you! http://www.softwarefreedomday.eu ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] Renderen
Graag wil ik het over het renderen hebben. Soms lees ik hier klachten over editors die zich niet aan de tag-standaarden houden. Maar nu wil ik het hebben over de andere kant van het verhaal. op de volgende web-pagina: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Proposed_features kunnen nieuwe tag's worden voorgesteld. Op deze voorstellen kan vervolgens worden gestemd. Na een zekere tijd worden de stemmen geteld, waarna de nieuwe tag wordt aangenomen of verworpen. Als de nieuwe tag is aangenomen, moet dit op een bepaalde manier worden medegedeeld aan de diverse partijen zoals de de web-pagina's http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Map_Features http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Kaart_eigenschappen maar ook de programmeur's van de programma's van JOSM en Potlach. en ook de beheerders van het renderen van de web-pagina's zoals www.openfietskaart.nl www.opencyclemap.org www.openstreetmap.org dienen dit te weten De manier waarop dit gebeurt is belangrijk, immers als dit goed gebeurt dan mag ik er vanuit gaan dat als ik de presets van b.v. JOSM gebruik, dat mijn resultaat vervolgens goed is (overeenkomstig de tag-standaarden) en dus zichtbaar moet zijn. Kan iemand mij inlichten hoe dit geregeld is? Leuk voorbeeld:in JOSM revision 928 is de tag service:parking_aisle tezien op de pagina http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Rejected_features is te lezen dat deze tag is afgewezen. Ronald ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Renderen
Ronald wrote: Leuk voorbeeld:in JOSM revision 928 is de tag service:parking_aisle tezien op de pagina http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Rejected_features is te lezen dat deze tag is afgewezen. Dat komt omdat er 2 voorstellen waren. De afgewezen versie is highway=parking_aisle. Je haalt die door elkaar met de andere, die wel is aangenomen: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Approved_features/service%3Dparking_aisle Taggen met: highway=service ; service=parking_aisle -- Lennard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] Bezigheidstherapie
Ik ben de laatste 3 dagen aan het mappen geweest (/me heeft momenteel vakantie). Het resultaat: Stukje Leiden Noorderkwartier (stukje tussen kanaal en schipholweg): http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=52.16700047374421lon=4.488182287851338zoom=17layers=0B000F000F Stukje Leiden Stevenshof (Veel straatnamen ontbreken, straten en paden ontbreken en enkele straten foutieve naam; Dit schijnt over heel Stevenshof het geval te zijn; zeer geschikt voor een mapping party): http://www.informationfreeway.org/?lat=52.153570612121854lon=4.444977274397389zoom=17layers=0B000F000F Morgen vertrek ik naar het oosten (Nijverdal om precies te zijn). Zijn er nog mappers daar in de buurt die zin hebben om komend weekend iets te ondernemen? Groetens, Myckel signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Renderen
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:11:38 +0200 Ronald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Leuk voorbeeld:in JOSM revision 928 is de tag service:parking_aisle tezien op de pagina http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Rejected_features is te lezen dat deze tag is afgewezen. Die ben ik sinds afgelopen middag ook gaan gebruiken (aangezien hij in JOSM en Map Features op de wiki zat), en hij rendert ook nog. Blijkbaar is hij toch niet zo rejected. ;-) Myckel signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Renderen
Op 25 september 2008 22:25 schreef Myckel Habets [EMAIL PROTECTED]het volgende: On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:11:38 +0200 Ronald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Leuk voorbeeld:in JOSM revision 928 is de tag service:parking_aisle tezien op de pagina http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Rejected_features is te lezen dat deze tag is afgewezen. Die ben ik sinds afgelopen middag ook gaan gebruiken (aangezien hij in JOSM en Map Features op de wiki zat), en hij rendert ook nog. Blijkbaar is hij toch niet zo rejected. ;-) renderen moet je ook (hoe moeilijk ook) los zien van OpenStreetMap osm is wat er in de database staat. geen enkele kaart laat momenteel zien wat we allemaal aan informatie erin hebben zitten (dat zouden ook lelijke kaarten worden maar dat is een ander verhaal) mis je iets op een kaart dan zul je met de maker/beheerder in discussie moeten gaan of het wenselijk is dit te renderen zo is op openstreetmap.org al tijden een discussie over het renderen van het bierglas icoontje voor pubs Rob, openfietskaart ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Renderen
Ah... dat is dus ook die JOSM (en de renderer) gebruikt. Myckel On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:21:35 +0200 Lennard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ronald wrote: Leuk voorbeeld:in JOSM revision 928 is de tag service:parking_aisle tezien op de pagina http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Rejected_features is te lezen dat deze tag is afgewezen. Dat komt omdat er 2 voorstellen waren. De afgewezen versie is highway=parking_aisle. Je haalt die door elkaar met de andere, die wel is aangenomen: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Approved_features/service%3Dparking_aisle Taggen met: highway=service ; service=parking_aisle -- Lennard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] NLUUG najaarsconferentie/Embedded Linux Conference Europe
*, voor degenen die geinteresseerd zijn in het ontwikkelen van allerlei mobiele applicaties op basis van OSM data: op 6 en 7 november worden de NLUUG najaarsconferentie (onderwerp 'Mobility') en de Embedded Linux Conference Europe georganiseerd in Ede (Gld.). Onderwerpen zijn o.a. UMTS, GUI libraries voor mobiele devices, flash wear levelling, Bluetooth en nog veel meer dingen die best handig zijn om te weten als je niet wilt dat je mobiele OSM applicatie suckt (zowel stroom als in gebruik). Het programma is te vinden op de conferentiewebsite: http://www.nluug.nl/events/nj08/ De inschrijving is inmiddels gestart. armijn -- - [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.uulug.nl/ | UULug: Utrecht Linux Users Group - ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] straatnamen (vervolg)
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 10:37:56PM +0200, Freek wrote: curl -g 'http://xapi.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/way[highway=*][bbox=5.856765,51.8358 14,5.867068,51.840174]' om de straten van een stukje Nijmegen op te halen? Ik krijg niks terug. Ik wel met exact dat commando, misschien lag xapi er net even uit of zo? Voor de volledigheid: was inderdaad blijkbaar iets tijdelijk, is nu weer OK. -- Met vriendelijke groeten, Dieter Homepage: http://people.vrijschrift.org/~dieter/ ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] straatnamen (vervolg)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 Dieter Van Uytvanck schreef: On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:22:35PM +0200, Stefan de Konink wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- http://kinkrsoftware.nl/contrib/osm/wegen-nl-def.txt.gz select t2.v from way_tags as t1, way_tags as t2 where t1.way = t2.way and t1.k = 'highway' and t2.k = 'name' and t2.v '' group by t2.v order by t2.v; ...als ik gisteren wilt wat je bedoelde, en ik de mogelijkheid had om te boundingboxen op Nijmegen had ik wel iets voor je gebakken. Maar bboxen blijft nog iets wat ik moet implementeren. Dankjewel! Jouw lijst bevat ook Belgische en Duitse straatnamen, diegene die ik probeerde te maken was die voor Nederland alleen. Maar gezien de grote verschillen qua aantallen (164.937 tov 17.601 bij mij) denk ik dat ik nog ergens een fout heb gemaakt en niet alle straten heb. Zal voor volgende week worden om uit te zoeken hoe dat zit. Wat jij wilt kan wel... maar dan moet je van een administratieve grens gebruikmaken. Ik heb gewoon planet-nl genomen. Stefan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEAREKAAYFAkjcB/UACgkQYH1+F2Rqwn0hTACdEVsGs4PA0OcUTS6MiU4crpHT k7sAnihQuj9saY94cXpDrxjpq4MS3VJD =Wkh5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Rendering highway=path op osm.nl
na onze (lennard ik) speurtocht is gebleken dat de stylesheet voor grens data rendering kijkt is naar de planet_osm_roads tabel.. why ?? (select way,admin_level from planet_osm_roads where boundary='administrative') as admin Martijn v.O. , kun je de de import aanpassen hiervoor, of iemand vragen waarom ze het hebben veranderd Rob Op 24 september 2008 09:28 schreef Lennard [EMAIL PROTECTED] het volgende: Martijn van Oosterhout wrote: Waren die er eerder wel? Zijn ze op de gewone OSM tileserver te zien? Uiteraard stonden de grenzen op de kaart: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.4396lon=4.9408zoom=14layers=B000FTF http://tile.openstreetmap.nl/?lat=51.4396lon=4.9408zoom=14layers=B00F En nu, foetsie! Weg! Wat ik wel vreemd vind, omdat je de stylesheet hebt gepakt uit svn, die naar ik aanneem ook op osm.org gebruikt wordt. -- Lennard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Rendering highway=path op osm.nl
Rob wrote: na onze (lennard ik) speurtocht is gebleken dat de stylesheet voor grens data rendering kijkt is naar de planet_osm_roads tabel.. why ?? (select way,admin_level from planet_osm_roads where boundary='administrative') as admin Martijn v.O. , kun je de de import aanpassen hiervoor, of iemand vragen waarom ze het hebben veranderd Kijk eens wat een beetje graven met svn log osm.xml naar boven brengt: r7946 | jonb | 2008-05-26 21:26:34 +0200 (Mon, 26 May 2008) | 1 line Optimise some SQL queries to minimise data from DB. Remove some unnecessary rule filters since the data is now filtered in the query. Boundary=administrative is now in the roads table to improve efficiency at low zooms (requires osm2pgsql update). Convert tabs to spaces. -- Lennard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Funding NLNet - initiatief gevraagd.
Ik kan de funding kontakten overnemen. Ik stel voor dat Martijn e.a. met mij opneemt ??? TAV voorstellen : Ik loop al een tijdje met het idee een OSM GPS te bouwen. Een microprocessor met goede GPS ontvanger, klein display en een flink toetsenbord. USB stick of memory card voor geheugen. Compleet te configureren en te monteren op fiets ed. Opties : video cam / fototoestel en GSM modem. Het resultaat wordt een bouwkit voor Europa. Ik kan zelf zorgdragen voor ce markering (mijn toko). Ik wil voorstellen het budget (of gedeeltelijk) te besteden aan de ontwikkeling van dit product en de bijbehorende software. Ik kan de regie nemen over de hardware, en ik neem aan dat er voldoende vrijwilligers zijn voor software. Gert Gremmen - Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest) -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Martijn van Exel Verzonden: Thursday, September 25, 2008 11:58 AM Aan: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Funding NLNet - initiatief gevraagd. Ja, dat klopt. Hij heeft ook contact gehad met NLNet zover ik weet? Milo, kun je ons eens updaten over hoe dit gaat? Martijn Op 25 sep 2008, om 08:55 heeft Stefan de Konink het volgende geschreven: On Thu, 25 Sep 2008, Jeroen Dekkers wrote: Ik zie op dit moment niemand naar voren stappen die het voortouw wilt nemen. Martijn heeft geen tijd en ik heb er zelf ook de tijd niet voor. Als niemand het doet betekent het gewoon dat het geld terug gaat naar NLnet. Dus bij deze ook een laatste oproep van mij. Als je trouwens een goed idee hebt en het valt niet onder het voorstel wat nu op de wiki staat, dan is het eventueel ook mogelijk om het geld aan andere dingen te besteden, mits NLnet hier natuurlijk mee akkoord gaat. Ik zou het heel jammer vinden als we het geld niet uitgeven... Zo ver ik weet is Milo bezig? Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] Zonneenergie
Ik ga dit najaar investeren in zonne-energie. (3500 Wp onder de SDE subsidieregeling) Kunnen we op de NL server een overlay maken waarop mensen met zonnepanelen (maar ook andere zonne- en of wind oplossingen) hun installatie zichtbaar kunnen maken ?? Ik denk dat de zonne-energie community best wel te porren is om hun installatie op de kaart te zetten. Het levert waarschijnlijk een goede bijdrage aan de popularisering van zonneenergie. Ik zou een intelligente overlay willen waar het geïnstalleerde vermogen maat wordt voor de (bijv stipgrootte) Dat kan in 4-5 categorieën. Gert Gremmen - Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest) image001.gif___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [talk-au] Google nearly up to date
I searched today until I found a sign Manning Street. If that failed I
was
going to see the lady at the post office to ask her {ref=local_knowledge}.
Excellent, I suspect that those two roads running north off Queen Street
that Google has as Stephens St and Dickinson St may
well be LATPO candidates.
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[Talk-de] Worldfile vom 24. September 2008
Hallo, die neuen Daten stehen auf meiner Wikiseite mal wieder zum Download bereit: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/User:Computerteddy#Kartendateien_.2F_Maps_vom_24._September_2008 Neuerung: in den Unterverzeichnissen mit den Einzelkacheln (img und osm) befinden sich 5-Stellige Verzeichnisse, in denen die Dateien liegen, die mit diesen 5 Stellen beginnen. Das habe ich wegen Problemen der Anzeige der Verzeichnisse in Browsern so einsortiert. -- Viele Gruesse Computerteddy ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Welche API Server gibt es?
Hallo Liste, ich beschäftige mich gerade mit der API und habe auf der Wikiseite nur Beispiele für http://api.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/... gefunden. Für Osmxapi finde ich vier Server: * http://www.informationfreeway.org/api/0.5/... will redirect to a suitable server for the request. * http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org/api/0.5... is a fast server located in San Diego, but prone to instability. * http://xapi.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5... is the standard OSM provided service, it runs on a relatively slow server. * http://osm.bearstech.com/osmxapi/api/0.5/... is a medium capacity virtual machine donated by Bearstech. Gibt es für die einfache API nur den einen Server? Tschuess Michael ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Welche API Server gibt es?
Hallo. Am Donnerstag, 25. September 2008 schrieb Michael Buchberger: Gibt es für die einfache API nur den einen Server? Ja, da die normale API auch Schreibzugriffe erlaubt und die (logischerweise) in *einer* zentralen Datenbank landen müssen (Transaktionssicherheit). Gruß, Bernd -- Manchmal hab' ich den Eindruck, hier poste der eine oder andere Fünfjährige unter Drogen. - Jens Dittmar in de.newusers.questions signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] lcn_ref Mau auf dem Großen Wannsee
Hallo, Johann H. Addicks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: was ist auf http://www.openstreetmap.com/?lat=52.4392lon=13.1631zoom=14layers=B000FTF die Relation Mau? (oder ist es überhaupt eine Relation?) ich sehe da keine Relation in der Nähe. Das Bezeichnet eine Fahrradroute: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=52.4392lon=13.1631zoom=14layers=B000FTF Warum die Mau heißt musst du jemand in der Nähe oder den Ersteller fahren. Viele Grüße Sebastian Waschik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Qualitätsoffensive
Moin, also an der Qualitätsverbesserung arbeite ich ja schon. Allerdings mangelt es an Mitstreitern. Da gibt es nämlich so viel Arbiet selbst bei dem vorhandenen Material, dass man es nicht glauben mag. Was mir dazu einfiel und was ich gemacht habe steht hier: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Qualit%C3%A4tssicherung Unter anderem gibt es da unmapped places, momentan als Liste von Orten je Bundesland. Ich arbeite gerade daran, das auch mal grafisch aufzubereiten. Weiterhin gibt es den Waycheck: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/De:WayCheck Beim Autobahncheck wurde an drei Ländern schon gearbeitet und man kann die Fortschritte in der Statistik erkennen. Da können sich alle qualitätswütigen - auch aus der Ferne! - erst mal austoben. (Falls jemand Daten aktualisiert haben möchte: email.) Mit der Zeit werden sicherlich noch andere Checks dazukommen. Weiterhin: Nach dem ersten Mappen eines Gebiets müsste es auch ab und an mal kontrolliert werden, auf Veränderungen. Die Arbeit wird uns nicht ausgehen! Ciao Gary68 __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] hamlet = Bauernhof
Bernd Wurst schrieb: Hallo. Am Mittwoch, 24. September 2008 schrieb Jens Müller: Sogenannte Einsiedlerhöfe? Also bei uns (Ba-Wü) nennt man das Aussiedlerhof. ;-) Hmm, ja, ich glaube, Du hast recht. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Elbehochwasser?
Hallo, was ist denn hier passiert oder zeigt mein Browser da etwas falsches an? Bei mir ist da ein rieses Quadrat in der Farbe von Wasser. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.533lon=10.237zoom=10 Ein ähnliches Problem scheint hier zu sein: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.411lon=7.464zoom=10 In der Nähe von Hamburg erscheint dies nicht in allen Zoom-Levels. Aber das mag ja vielleicht daran liegen, dass das Rendering noch nicht fertig ist. Viele Grüße Sebastian Waschik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Qualitätsoffensive
Hallo Bernd und alle, nur ein Mapper in der Region aktiv Autodidakt Genau so fühle ich mich! getane Arbeit irgendwo zu bewerben: Schaut mal typische Anfänger-Fehler finden. Ja bitte: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.5973lon=11.3385zoom=12layers=B000TTF Alles was in boundary=administrative, admin_level=9, name=Simmelsdorf ist... Herzlichen Dank! Markus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] hamlet = Bauernhof
Am Mittwoch 24 September 2008 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: Moin ! nach FeatureList ist ein Hamlet eine Ansammlung von Häusern. Nun gibt es bei uns auch einsame Bauernhöfe mit Namen - sind das auch Hamlet's ein hamlet = weiler kann miener meinung nach auch aus nur einem hof bestehen. ich halte das folgendermassen: wenn irgendwo dieses gruene schild mit einem namen steht, dann ist es ein hamlet. wenn nur das uebliche weisse strassenschild steht, wird die strasse entsprechend getaggt. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Rolltreppe
Am Donnerstag 25 September 2008 schrieb Frederik Ramm: Hi, Detlef Reichl wrote: wie tagge ich eine Rolltreppe? Hm, highway=steps automated=yes vielleicht ;-) Oder highway=escalator oder amenity=escalator, das waere der uebliche Begriff. Die Dinger kommen halt vorrangig im Innenraum von Gebaeuden vor, und dieses Micro Mapping ist bei uns noch nicht so gross. da es eine art eines wegs darstellt, highway=escalator, analog zu highway=steps. vielleicht sollte man aber bei solchen ohne wechselnde richtung noch ein oneway=yes dazunehmen. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Elbehochwasser?
Am Donnerstag, 25. September 2008 09:06 schrieb Sebastian Waschik: Hallo, was ist denn hier passiert oder zeigt mein Browser da etwas falsches an? Bei mir ist da ein rieses Quadrat in der Farbe von Wasser. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.533lon=10.237zoom=10 Ein ähnliches Problem scheint hier zu sein: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.411lon=7.464zoom=10 In der Nähe von Hamburg erscheint dies nicht in allen Zoom-Levels. Aber das mag ja vielleicht daran liegen, dass das Rendering noch nicht fertig ist. Ja, irgendwo hat die Elbe ein Leck, und deshalb steht jetzt halb Hamburg im Wasser. Ich hab gerade keine Zeit, aber wer sich das ansehen will, kann evtl. den Coastline-Checker (mal im Wiki suchen) benutzen. Gruß Sven ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Rolltreppe
Guenther Meyer schrieb: Am Donnerstag 25 September 2008 schrieb Frederik Ramm: Hi, Detlef Reichl wrote: wie tagge ich eine Rolltreppe? Hm, highway=steps automated=yes vielleicht ;-) Oder highway=escalator oder amenity=escalator, das waere der uebliche Begriff. Die Dinger kommen halt vorrangig im Innenraum von Gebaeuden vor, und dieses Micro Mapping ist bei uns noch nicht so gross. da es eine art eines wegs darstellt, highway=escalator, analog zu highway=steps. vielleicht sollte man aber bei solchen ohne wechselnde richtung noch ein oneway=yes dazunehmen. In manchen Ecken dieser Welt werden Rolltreppen oder auch Laufbänder, wenn sie etwas länger sind, auch schon mal dem ÖPNV zugeschlagen. Highway passt daher glaube ich besser. Thorsten ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] 1. OSM-Treffen Göttingen
Hallo, am kommenden Dienstag findet das 1. Göttinger OSM-Treffen statt, siehe auch hier: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/G%C3%B6ttingen Der Ort: Cafe Zentral im Zentralen Hörsaalgebäude der Uni um 19 Uhr. Alle Mapper, Interessierte, Sympathisanten sind herzlich eingeladen!! TO wird spontan vor Ort entwickelt. Bis dann Michael ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Rolltreppe
Am Donnerstag 25 September 2008 schrieb Thorsten Feles: Guenther Meyer schrieb: Am Donnerstag 25 September 2008 schrieb Frederik Ramm: Hi, Detlef Reichl wrote: wie tagge ich eine Rolltreppe? Hm, highway=steps automated=yes vielleicht ;-) Oder highway=escalator oder amenity=escalator, das waere der uebliche Begriff. Die Dinger kommen halt vorrangig im Innenraum von Gebaeuden vor, und dieses Micro Mapping ist bei uns noch nicht so gross. da es eine art eines wegs darstellt, highway=escalator, analog zu highway=steps. vielleicht sollte man aber bei solchen ohne wechselnde richtung noch ein oneway=yes dazunehmen. In manchen Ecken dieser Welt werden Rolltreppen oder auch Laufbänder, wenn sie etwas länger sind, auch schon mal dem ÖPNV zugeschlagen. Highway passt daher glaube ich besser. eben. laufbaender muessten dann uebrigens highway=conveyor heissen... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Qualitätsoffensive
Hallo. Am Donnerstag, 25. September 2008 schrieb Markus: Ja bitte: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.5973lon=11.3385zoom=12layers=B000TTF Dein Permalink war incl. Maplint und der scheint momentan kaputt zu sein. Jedenfalls kam bei mir da nur eine graue Fläche, bis ich Maplint ausgeschaltet habe. Alles was in boundary=administrative, admin_level=9, name=Simmelsdorf ist... Ist admin_level=9 eine Grenze die gerendert wird? Ich hab nicht auf Anhieb erkannt, wie groß das Gebiet ist, das du meinst... Ich habe mal ganz grob drüber geschaut und finde, das sieht doch sehr passabel aus! Etwas jammern auf hohem Niveau muss natürlich immer sein... ;-) Der Reiterhof Steckenpferd hat ein landuse=farm. Das wirkt auf mich schonmal sehr richtig. Aber an der Stelle überlagern sich landuse=farm und das landuse=residential. Das sollte wenn möglich immer vermieden werden, dass sich mehrere landuse überlagern. Gleiches gilt noch für ein paar andere Landuse, z.B. die Albflor Milchwerke. Die Adresse Am Hopfenbeet Nummer 3 hat die Hausnummer an allen drei Eckpunkten des Gebäudes. Ist vermutlich beim Markieren etwas schief gegangen. Der Bach Haunach ist eine kurze Strecke als waterway=river / tunnel=yes geführt. Momentan stehen viele auf dem Standpunkt, dass ein tunnel nie ein river sondern immer ein canal ist. Schließlich sind die wenigsten Flüsse natürlich in einem Tunnel sondern i.d.R. wird da kanalisiert. Mapnik rendert das dann auch richtig. Von Simmelsdorf nach Au geht ein higway=service (unter der Autobahn durch). Ich verstehe service als expliziter Zufahrtsweg wie z.B. Hofeinfahrt, Weg auf Firmengelände und sowas. Ist das vielleicht ein Feldweg (highway=track / tracktype=1)? Au ist ein hamlet, die Bushaltestelle Au aber als Busbahnhof eingetragen. Eine einfache Bushaltestelle ist bus_stop. Gegenüber der Reithalle hast du ein historic=wayside_cross eingetragen. Ist das etwas anderes als ein wayside_shrine (Bildstock)? Ich kenne mich mit dem Thema nicht aus und will auch den Bayern nicht in religiösen Dingen reinreden, aber ich dachte bisher das sei meist beides, ein Kreuz und ein Heiligenbild. Ist das noch in deinem Gebiet: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.603704lon=11.34123zoom=18 Da sind drei tertiary-Straße, die nur über eine residential verbunden sind. Das ist normalerweise nicht so, normalerweise wird die Straße nicht kurz für ein paar Meter kleiner und dann wieder größer. Entweder sie hat Durchgangscharakter oder nicht. ;-) Zudem ist links und rechts der Pferdeweide eine tertiary. Ist das wirklich so? In Bayern mag das anders sein, aber bei uns ist meist nur Geld für eine gut ausgebaute Straße vorhanden. :) Die tertiary-Straßen sind bei dir ohne K-Nummer. Auch wenn tertiary schon manchmal für nicht-Kreisstraßen benutzt werden kann, so finde ich bei dir gar keine K-Nummern. Vielleicht kannst du mal schauen, ob nicht die, die du als Durchgangs-Straße erkannt hast, sogar schon eine K-Nummer haben. Okay, doch recht viel Kritik, aber es sind alles Kleinigkeiten. Das große und ganze sieht doch sehr gut aus! ;-) Gruß, Bernd -- Es ist schwieriger eine vorgefasste Meinung zu zertrümmern, als ein Atom. - Albert Einstein signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Audio-Mapping - deutsche Anleitung
Ulf Möller wrote: Markus Stürmer schrieb: Dann erstellt JOSM für jeden Wegpunkt einen Abspielbutton. OK, soweit bin ich jetzt gekommen (die Wegpunkte müssen in der selben GPX-Datei stehen wie der Track). Aber der play head steht an einer ganz falschen Stelle. Manchmal lässt er sich gar nicht verschieben, manchmal schon, aber nicht da hin, wo er hin soll: You need to Drag the play head near to the GPX track whose associated sound track you were playing. In welchem Modus muss JOSM sein, damit man den play head verschieben kann? Zumindest im Select-Modus geht es. Man muss den Abspielpunkt allerdings dabei am zugehörigen Track entlang ziehen; das ist vermutlich auch mit der Formulierung drag the play head near to the GPX track ... gemeint. Beim normalen Verschieben dieser Art wird nur der momentane Abspielpunkt verschoben (wie es auch mit F6 für Rückwärts und F7 für Vorwärts geschieht. Hält man dagegen beim Anklicken (und Ziehen?) die Shift/Umschalt-Taste gedrückt, dann wird die Beziehung zwischen GPS-Track und Audio-Datei geändert, und zwar wird der Abspielpunkt der Audio-Datei beibehalten und mit dem neuen Punkt des GPS-Tracks assoziiert (dieselbe Verschiebung gilt dann auch für den darauf folgenden Teil der Audiodatei). Ich muss aber zugeben, dass ich mit Wegpunkten noch nicht gearbeitet habe, weil das bei meinem GPS-Logger einfach zu kompliziert ist; ich starte GPS-Logger und Diktiergerät immer synchron, so dass die Assoziation zwischen Sound- und GPS-Track von vorneherein genau stimmt. Gruß, Hatto ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Elbehochwasser?
Sebastian Waschik wrote: was ist denn hier passiert oder zeigt mein Browser da etwas falsches an? Bei mir ist da ein rieses Quadrat in der Farbe von Wasser. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.533lon=10.237zoom=10 Ein ähnliches Problem scheint hier zu sein: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.411lon=7.464zoom=10 Das ist anscheinend der Möhnesee ausgelaufen. :-) Im Ernst: Das ist kein Problem des Browsers, und anscheinend auch nicht der Datengrundlage. Es liegt am Renderer Mapnik, denn nur der zeigt es falsch an, während Osmarender und Cyclemap den Fehler nicht haben. Gruß, Hatto ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Qualitätsoffensive
Hallo, Bernd Wurst wrote: Etwas jammern auf hohem Niveau muss natürlich immer sein... ;-) Das macht natuerlich Appetit ;-) Befindet sich direkt neben der Kirche Buehl tatsaechlich ein Berggipfel (natural=peak)? Die armen Kirchgaenger, die diesen auf dem Weg zum angrenzenden Friedhof ueberqueren muessen ;-) Westlich der Kirche Buehl ist ein building=yes, das aber nur die Form eines C hat (also nicht geschlossen). Am Lerchenbuehl Ecke Schulstr. gibt es einen Zahnarzt, der doppelt getaggt ist - einmal als Node amenity=dentist, dann noch als Gebaeude mit name=Zahnarzt. Ich wuerde direkt das Gebaeude mit amenity=dentist taggen (spaeter mal vielleicht eine Relation, die besagt, dass nicht das ganze Haus eine Zahnarztpraxis ist, sondern diese sich nur in dem Haus befindet, aber das waere die Kuer). Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Wiedermal die Lizenz
Hi, ich habe einen Artikel, über OSM, für die Novemberausgabe des freiesmagazin geschrieben und hübsche OSM Bilder (Zoo von Berlin, etc.) dazu gegeben. Nur werden diese Bilder nicht im Artikel landen, weil die Lizenz theoretisch vorschreiben würde die Autoren zu nennen. Ohne die Bilder ist der Artikel natürlich nicht mehr ganz so toll. Magazine wie c't drucken OSM Karten ab ohne Autoren zu nennen. Im Prinzip wäre das schon strafbar, oder? Gibt es in der Lizenz nicht ein Hintertürchen, dass man für Werbezwecke keine Autoren angeben muss, oä? mfg, Florian (Kelvan) PS: Gibt es schon Ideen wie man die Lizenz ändern kann (ist ja meines Wissens nach geplant) ohne verklagt werden zu können. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wiedermal die Lizenz
Nunja, OSM ist zusächt einmal die Datenbank und nicht bunte Bildchen. Der artikel wird ja nicht die Datenbank abdrucken sondern die AUSGABE eines Programms = eine gerenderte Karte. Marcus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wiedermal die Lizenz
Müsste nicht also der Renderer alle Autoren angeben? So wie's auch mal war mit (c)name. Ich kann verstehen das man die Karten nicht verwendet, solange die Lizenz nicht klar ist. Irgendein deutscher Sender wollte doch mal die Karte verwenden in den Nachrichten, nur haben sie's wegen der Lizenz gelassen. mfg, Florian (Kelvan) Am 25. September 2008 11:14 schrieb Marcus Wolschon [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Nunja, OSM ist zusächt einmal die Datenbank und nicht bunte Bildchen. Der artikel wird ja nicht die Datenbank abdrucken sondern die AUSGABE eines Programms = eine gerenderte Karte. Marcus ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wiedermal die Lizenz
Hallo, Florian Schweikert wrote: ich habe einen Artikel, über OSM, für die Novemberausgabe des freiesmagazin geschrieben und hübsche OSM Bilder (Zoo von Berlin, etc.) dazu gegeben. Nur werden diese Bilder nicht im Artikel landen, weil die Lizenz theoretisch vorschreiben würde die Autoren zu nennen. Zunaechst einmal hast Du als Artikelschreiber natuerlich ein gewisses Zitierrecht. Du darfst ja zur Illustration Deines Artikels auch eine Karte von Google abdrucken. Dieses Recht ist voellig unabhaengig von den Nutzungsbestimmungen, die der Rechteinhaber gesetzt hat, und daher auch von der CC-BY-SA-Lizenz. Details kannst Du im §51 UrhG nachlesen. Selbst wenn Du das aber ausser Acht liessest, so greift ja immer noch der Passus der Lizenz, der besagt, dass die Namensnennung in einer der von Ihnen vorgenommenen Nutzung angemessenen Form stattzufinden hat. Nun ist es voellig offensichtlich, dass eine Auflistung von 50.000 Namen fuer einen Zeitschriftenartikel nicht mehr angemessen ist. Daher besteht weitgehend Konsens, dass der Verweis auf www.openstreetmap.org reicht. Wenn Du es ganz genau machen willst, verweise auf http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Attribution Bye Frederik PS: Gibt es schon Ideen wie man die Lizenz ändern kann (ist ja meines Wissens nach geplant) ohne verklagt werden zu können. Verklagt werden kannst Du eh immer. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
