[OSM-talk-be] Test website for OSM streets
Hi all, I've been doing a little programming and I would like to share the results with you: if you go http://users.edpnet.be/kknecht/ you arrive at a website where you can find the state of the OSM maps for some municipalities in the neighbourhood of Gent. In detail you can find - the missing streets, which are in official lists (these can be found in general at municipality websites, often reading the HTML source of the streetmap website) - the streets in OSM NOT in the official list: personally I think these are the most important,because that way we can clean our database! - some history shots where the coverage per km^2 on a three-monthly basis (this is just some graphic sugar, but it is nice to see your work evolve isn't it?) Now the good news is that it's a piece of cake to do this for ANY Belgian municipality, so if you want yours added, all you have to send me is a text file just containing all the official street names, each on a separate line, and I add the info soon... if I have time ;-) If you have comments or suggestions: just let me know. So long, Kenny ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk] If you want to help with OSM, and dont know what to do, help out with the Kosovo and Albania project
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: looks good! I will share that with the others. mike On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Rob r...@robreid.co.nz wrote: Maarten Deen wrote: That wiki table is a good idea. Let me know if you can't make it today (your day), maybe I can continue. Quick attempt: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kosovo_iMMAP_Import I'm not a wiki expert so feel free to improve as required or let me know what changes you want to the table and I'll try to sort it out. rcr Just a heads up if you are working on these imports. It looks like Malenki is attempting to import the whole block of data so beware of conflicts. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Kosovo_iMMAP_Import rcr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] If you want to help with OSM, and dont know what to do, help out with the Kosovo and Albania project
Thanks for heads up, The idea of doing smaller chunks is to avoid conflicts, but if you get the latest data from the server we should be alright. Also the big deal is to not overwrite existing streets. There is alot of data! mike On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:20 AM, Rob r...@robreid.co.nz wrote: jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: looks good! I will share that with the others. mike On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Rob r...@robreid.co.nz wrote: Maarten Deen wrote: That wiki table is a good idea. Let me know if you can't make it today (your day), maybe I can continue. Quick attempt: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kosovo_iMMAP_Import I'm not a wiki expert so feel free to improve as required or let me know what changes you want to the table and I'll try to sort it out. rcr Just a heads up if you are working on these imports. It looks like Malenki is attempting to import the whole block of data so beware of conflicts. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Kosovo_iMMAP_Import rcr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] If you want to help with OSM, and dont know what to do, help out with the Kosovo and Albania project
Todos: * don't overwrite existing streets. * run the validator, merge street segments * join streets that end near each other. * don't upload points that are not connected. code: Here is the hack to shp2osm.pl that does the splitting, please use that if you want to do mass imports. http://pastebin.com/f30247bfb It splits by street count, not node count to get a clean cut. It is what I used to produce those files. the shape file is also online on archive.org On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:58 AM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: There is a reason I split them up by streets and not by node count, it is to avoid lonly points with no streets like this : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/624505841 that whole section of the map is full of points with no streets. :( On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:47 AM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Thanks for heads up, The idea of doing smaller chunks is to avoid conflicts, but if you get the latest data from the server we should be alright. Also the big deal is to not overwrite existing streets. There is alot of data! mike On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:20 AM, Rob r...@robreid.co.nz wrote: jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: looks good! I will share that with the others. mike On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Rob r...@robreid.co.nz wrote: Maarten Deen wrote: That wiki table is a good idea. Let me know if you can't make it today (your day), maybe I can continue. Quick attempt: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kosovo_iMMAP_Import I'm not a wiki expert so feel free to improve as required or let me know what changes you want to the table and I'll try to sort it out. rcr Just a heads up if you are working on these imports. It looks like Malenki is attempting to import the whole block of data so beware of conflicts. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Kosovo_iMMAP_Import rcr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk shp2osm.pl Description: Perl program ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] If you want to help with OSM, and dont know what to do, help out with the Kosovo and Albania project
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Todos: * don't overwrite existing streets. * run the validator, merge street segments Very important. I see that different roads have their own nodes and when two roads connect, there are two nodes in the same spot. In JOSM, use the validator plugin and be sure to have duplicated nodes checked. What I've also seen is a lot of nodes (in ways) that have is_in=kosovo on them. I find that superfluous and delete those tags. I hope nobody objects to that. Maarten * join streets that end near each other. validator does a good job there too. Maarten On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:58 AM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: There is a reason I split them up by streets and not by node count, it is to avoid lonly points with no streets like this : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/624505841 that whole section of the map is full of points with no streets. :( On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:47 AM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Thanks for heads up, The idea of doing smaller chunks is to avoid conflicts, but if you get the latest data from the server we should be alright. Also the big deal is to not overwrite existing streets. There is alot of data! mike On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:20 AM, Rob r...@robreid.co.nz wrote: jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: looks good! I will share that with the others. mike On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 12:20 PM, Rob r...@robreid.co.nz wrote: Maarten Deen wrote: That wiki table is a good idea. Let me know if you can't make it today (your day), maybe I can continue. Quick attempt: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kosovo_iMMAP_Import I'm not a wiki expert so feel free to improve as required or let me know what changes you want to the table and I'll try to sort it out. rcr Just a heads up if you are working on these imports. It looks like Malenki is attempting to import the whole block of data so beware of conflicts. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Kosovo_iMMAP_Import rcr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] If you want to help with OSM, and dont know what to do, help out with the Kosovo and Albania project
Before you join streets that end near each other, I would recommend making sure that the streets actually connect to each other. Streets sometimes have barriers, or two disconnected segments, as a means of making sure that a particular street segment is used only within a particular neighborhood, not as a through route. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] If you want to help with OSM,and dont know what to do,help out with the Kosovo and Albania project From :jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com Date :Mon Feb 01 05:16:05 America/Chicago 2010 Todos: * don't overwrite existing streets. * run the validator, merge street segments * join streets that end near each other. * don't upload points that are not connected. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Hi! Kai Krueger wrote: Even if promoting to the company did not work, it might still be worth promoting OSM in the media coverage / blogs of the Nav4All shutdown as a reason why it is important to have free and open map data to prevent anti-competitive activities by a few large companies. I am fully aware that many people will not want to hear that - but why promote something that OSM cannot deliver? I can understand why Nav4All will rather shutdown than attempt to switch to OSM. A while ago, I had approached another company which produces mobile navigation software, where I know some people. I tried to advertise OSM data and maybe get some support for their software. To my great surprise, they had spent a considerable sum of money on converting OSM data into their format and had already evaluated it. The result of the evaluation was disillusioning: The geometry is pretty good, but the attribution is way below what would be required to substitute the commercial data. They decided to not use it, in spite of the work already invested. Which is rather close to the statement from Nav4All. OSM is quite suitable for any hobby project, but I believe that the anarchistic nature and the often controversial and sometimes disputed and chaotic tagging are reason enough to deter the use of OSM in any professional area where you are talking about warranties. The commercial map data has fixed tagging schemes and minimum quality standards. It contains no nasty surprises in general and if it does fail in some places, there's a provider who is liable to fix this ASAP. As long as OSM has no comparable standards (and I don't expect it will have - I'd like to point at my favorite example that there's still no agreed way to tag something as simple as a bicycle way), it is unlikely to meet the existing standards of commercial providers. I am aware that other than Nav4All and the company I talked to, Skobbler is trying to switch to OSM. They are probably running into all the problems with ambiguities and controversial tagging right now. So I am very interested what sort of navigation they will manage. bye Nop -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Fwd-Nav4All-navigation-shut-down-by-Navteq-tp4488024p4494366.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
format and had already evaluated it. The result of the evaluation was disillusioning: The geometry is pretty good, but the attribution is way below what would be required to substitute the commercial data. Can you give any more details? Although general tagging is an anarchy, 'automobile highway' tagging is generally well defined. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
2010/2/1 NopMap ekkeh...@gmx.de: standards (and I don't expect it will have - I'd like to point at my favorite example that there's still no agreed way to tag something as simple as a bicycle way), it is unlikely to meet the existing standards of commercial providers. well, how many professional map data providers provide mapdata for simple things like cycleways? The fact that there is not one agreed way to tag cycleways, but there is 2 agreed ways to do it doesn't IMHO turn all related data useless, does it? Have a look at cyclemap for more proofs ;-) cheers, Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] please revert two changesets
An import I did yesterday failed. Would somebody be so kind to revert these changesets: 3760931 3763181 thanks in advance malenki ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
NopMap wrote: Hi! Kai Krueger wrote: Even if promoting to the company did not work, it might still be worth promoting OSM in the media coverage / blogs of the Nav4All shutdown as a reason why it is important to have free and open map data to prevent anti-competitive activities by a few large companies. I am fully aware that many people will not want to hear that - but why promote something that OSM cannot deliver? I can understand why Nav4All will rather shutdown than attempt to switch to OSM. A while ago, I had approached another company which produces mobile navigation software, where I know some people. I tried to advertise OSM data and maybe get some support for their software. To my great surprise, they had spent a considerable sum of money on converting OSM data into their format and had already evaluated it. The result of the evaluation was disillusioning: The geometry is pretty good, but the attribution is way below what would be required to substitute the commercial data. They decided to not use it, in spite of the work already invested. I've been saying this since the first week I start working in OSM. I was basically told to shut up by people here claiming that OSM was a database with foibles that the maps providers would have to sort out themselves; they could take it or leave it. Sounds like they're leaving it - VERY disillusioning. Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Mike N. wrote: format and had already evaluated it. The result of the evaluation was disillusioning: The geometry is pretty good, but the attribution is way below what would be required to substitute the commercial data. Can you give any more details? Although general tagging is an anarchy, 'automobile highway' tagging is generally well defined. In the SW UK, I would say not. Inner Urban seems OK as long as you want to stop artery road rather than at the door; outer urban even less accuracy. Rural areas - it's lucky dip really, whole villages still missing even their connecting roads are absent. I would hazard a guess that foot routes are nearer to completion than vehicle. I'm off to fill in some gaps. Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 2:31 PM, NopMap ekkeh...@gmx.de wrote: OSM is quite suitable for any hobby project, but I believe that the anarchistic nature and the often controversial and sometimes disputed and chaotic tagging are reason enough to deter the use of OSM in any professional area where you are talking about warranties. I have to agree with Nop, up to a point. OSM is a great project and I invest a lot of my free time in it, but I still think it has a lot of failure points. The first time I wanted to use OSM data for a professional job, the data simply failed me. And I'm only talking about generating a high-scale UK map, not some complex routing application. Even drawing land borders between England, Scotland and Wales proved to be big PITA because of different approaches to tagging between the three regions (not to mention that England's regional boundaries were tagged the same way as the border with Scotland). I don't whether this has been improved in the meantime. So you are forced to manually post-process the data, which kind-of invalidates the whole tagging approach in OSM. I think this will sooner or later have to be addressed by the OSM community. Or we will have to build much better mapping applications which will be able to go around these obstacles. Best regards, Igor ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] If you want to help with OSM, and dont know what to do, help out with the Kosovo and Albania project
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: There is a reason I split them up by streets and not by node count, it is to avoid lonly points with no streets like this : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/624505841 that whole section of the map is full of points with no streets. :( Changeset 3760931 and my next one belonged to the big import I tried and failed with since someone else made edits in that region. Thats why I am asking for a revert some threads above. I had splitted the files with osmcut-hash, the only tool I had found so far working for me. I was working on that before the collaborating wiki-page and your script for splitting showed up. Now I will do smaller chunks using the splitted files now available at archive.org. regards malenki ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
On 01/-10/-28163 08:59 PM, NopMap wrote: Hi! Kai Krueger wrote: Even if promoting to the company did not work, it might still be worth promoting OSM in the media coverage / blogs of the Nav4All shutdown as a reason why it is important to have free and open map data to prevent anti-competitive activities by a few large companies. I am fully aware that many people will not want to hear that - but why promote something that OSM cannot deliver? I can understand why Nav4All will rather shutdown than attempt to switch to OSM. I'd agree with you if you'd insert a OSM cannot _yet_ deliver. No, I don't think OSM can currently quite compare with the full Navteq on a global scale in those countries that Navteq has good coverage for turn-by-turn applications. And I would probably even go as far as say I can also understand why they would rather shutdown then currently use OSM depending on where their main user base is. But that doesn't mean we can't use the fact that a company (potentially) has to shutdown due to licensing dispute between competitors, to make the point why it is important to have open data and try and convince people that is worth their while to contribute to such an effort to ensure that it does become a viable alternative. And I am convinced that OSM will continue to become viable in more and more applications including eventually turn-by-turn navigation. A while ago, I had approached another company which produces mobile navigation software, where I know some people. I tried to advertise OSM data and maybe get some support for their software. To my great surprise, they had spent a considerable sum of money on converting OSM data into their format and had already evaluated it. The result of the evaluation was disillusioning: The geometry is pretty good, but the attribution is way below what would be required to substitute the commercial data. They decided to not use it, in spite of the work already invested. Interesting. I think that could also be spun positively ;-) It means people in the industry are starting to take OSM seriously and actually invest money to evaluate how far it has come and be prepared for when it does reach a sufficient quality or need to quickly switch. It also means they must have had some confidence in that the process of crowd sourcing map data can work. Again I would agree with you that geometry is good and attribution still somewhat lacking. Osm is missing loads of turn restriction, height or weight restrictions, speed restrictions and housenumbers to name a few, even in areas with very good geometry coverage. But from a point of view of being disillusioned, I think in the majority of cases they are missing and seldomly wrong. So it just needs a lot more mappers and some time and that should be achievable too. Without knowing the company and any more of what they concluded I obviously can't say if the above statement is true for your example. But I have at least been peripherally involved with writing the turn-by-turn routing support of GpsMid that is based on OSM data and in my limited testing, the routes it found in high coverage areas, were not really worse than those found by a TomTom or Navigon that I had for comparison. Each had parts where it was better and worse than the others. So I do think it would be possible to make good routing from OSM, given good (commercial?) software. Which is rather close to the statement from Nav4All. OSM is quite suitable for any hobby project, but I believe that the anarchistic nature and the often controversial and sometimes disputed and chaotic tagging are reason enough to deter the use of OSM in any professional area where you are talking about warranties. The commercial map data has fixed tagging schemes and minimum quality standards. It contains no nasty surprises in general and if it does fail in some places, there's a provider who is liable to fix this ASAP. As long as OSM has no comparable standards (and I don't expect it will have - I'd like to point at my favorite example that there's still no agreed way to tag something as simple as a bicycle way), it is unlikely to meet the existing standards of commercial providers. So as I stated above, I don't think the _main_ problem at the moment is the anarchistic tagging, but still too limited coverage, especially on tagging relevant for routing. You just need to look at the Navteq and Teleatlas maps and see how many errors they contain and particularly how outdated in many areas, even on major roads in the middle of major cities they are, that you must realize that commercial companies can and have to be able to live with errors, inaccuracies and nasty surprises. And companies aren't liable for the errors, I don't think, or has any company been successfully sued for drivers driving into railway tracks, into rivers, getting stuck on unpassable roads as one can occasionally read in the media,
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Igor Brejc wrote: I have to agree with Nop, up to a point. OSM is a great project and I invest a lot of my free time in it, but I still think it has a lot of failure points. The first time I wanted to use OSM data for a professional job, the data simply failed me. And I'm only talking about generating a high-scale UK map, not some complex routing application. Even drawing land borders between England, Scotland and Wales proved to be big PITA because of different approaches to tagging between the three regions (not to mention that England's regional boundaries were tagged the same way as the border with Scotland). I don't whether this has been improved in the meantime. (1) My experience is that commercial and government GIS map data is less than perfect; particularly if you're crossing international borders. Even if you're targeting North America, it turns out the whole architecture of commercial information (generally built on top of the national census) is entirely different in Mexico, Canada and the US. Project #2 in the pipeline is a fundamentally international GIS system that wouldn't be possible at all w/o dbpedia, geonames, freebase, Yahoo's shapes, and Open Street Maps; unless I had the kind of resources that Google has. (2) A big part of the Web 2 - Web 3 transition is going to be finding a way to clean up the tagging morass. When it comes down to it, tags suck for two reasons: (i) they're a lot of work to create, and (ii) people don't use them consistently. There's are many approaches, but it's one of the biggest problems that I see in front of me personally. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] If you want to help with OSM, and dont know what to do, help out with the Kosovo and Albania project
Thanks for all your help and enthusiasm malenki, of course such things happened to me as well. On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 6:46 PM, malenki o...@malenki.ch wrote: jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: There is a reason I split them up by streets and not by node count, it is to avoid lonly points with no streets like this : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/624505841 that whole section of the map is full of points with no streets. :( Changeset 3760931 and my next one belonged to the big import I tried and failed with since someone else made edits in that region. Thats why I am asking for a revert some threads above. I had splitted the files with osmcut-hash, the only tool I had found so far working for me. I was working on that before the collaborating wiki-page and your script for splitting showed up. Now I will do smaller chunks using the splitted files now available at archive.org. regards malenki ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Hi, NopMap wrote: OSM is quite suitable for any hobby project, but I believe that the anarchistic nature and the often controversial and sometimes disputed and chaotic tagging are reason enough to deter the use of OSM in any professional area where you are talking about warranties. I don't think that the line is between hobby and professional. OSM with their volunteers does one kind of mapping, and TeleAtlas with their vans does another kind of mapping. Each has its own distinctive advantages. There are professional users wo spend money on OSM data when they *already have* TeleAtlas data. The commercial maps have fixed tagging schemes, minimum quality standards and only accept trained personnel as mappers. They have long turnaround times and cost a lot of money to maintain. At OSM we have no fixed tagging schema, no minimum quality standards, and anyone can map. We have super fast turnaround times and cost nothing to maintain. Different approaches - different results. Not worse or better; different. I don't see how you could have the advantages without the disadvantages. Add a fixed tagging scheme and peer review to OSM and you get more quality but less data and longer turnaround times; before long you are TeleAtlas v2.0 and have to charge for maps to pay your mappers because nobody does it for fun any more. So, yes, in my eyes the approach is really take it or leave it, and if someone decides he'd rather use TeleAtlas or Navteq then by all means, let him do it. I don't know why Dave F finds this VERY disillusioning; what was his illusion then? For OSM to rule the world? I think the world is much better of with a few map datasets following different approaches that with a one size fits all dataset. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Frederik, All this is true, but I think we are too concentrated on generating content (i.e. mapping) as opposed to actually using this data for some meaningful purpose. I guess this is natural, since majority of OSM users are mostly map data producers, and only the minority is actively involved in map consuming. My point is that we should listen to people who are trying to use our mapping data (both for non-profit and commercially). After all, isn't it the whole point of OSM to produce something useful? Or is just so that we can show a nice world map on the main page? Regards, Igor Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, NopMap wrote: OSM is quite suitable for any hobby project, but I believe that the anarchistic nature and the often controversial and sometimes disputed and chaotic tagging are reason enough to deter the use of OSM in any professional area where you are talking about warranties. I don't think that the line is between hobby and professional. OSM with their volunteers does one kind of mapping, and TeleAtlas with their vans does another kind of mapping. Each has its own distinctive advantages. There are professional users wo spend money on OSM data when they *already have* TeleAtlas data. The commercial maps have fixed tagging schemes, minimum quality standards and only accept trained personnel as mappers. They have long turnaround times and cost a lot of money to maintain. At OSM we have no fixed tagging schema, no minimum quality standards, and anyone can map. We have super fast turnaround times and cost nothing to maintain. Different approaches - different results. Not worse or better; different. I don't see how you could have the advantages without the disadvantages. Add a fixed tagging scheme and peer review to OSM and you get more quality but less data and longer turnaround times; before long you are TeleAtlas v2.0 and have to charge for maps to pay your mappers because nobody does it for fun any more. So, yes, in my eyes the approach is really take it or leave it, and if someone decides he'd rather use TeleAtlas or Navteq then by all means, let him do it. I don't know why Dave F finds this VERY disillusioning; what was his illusion then? For OSM to rule the world? I think the world is much better of with a few map datasets following different approaches that with a one size fits all dataset. Bye Frederik -- http://igorbrejc.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Am 01.02.2010 20:03, schrieb Frederik Ramm: I don't see how you could have the advantages without the disadvantages. Add a fixed tagging scheme and peer review to OSM and you get more quality but less data and longer turnaround times; before long you are TeleAtlas v2.0 and have to charge for maps to pay your mappers because nobody does it for fun any more. Hmmm, a lot of the mappers I was talking to told me that it was a burden to find the right tag for something, in the hope that it will appear on the map. Seems a lot of mappers would be quite happy to follow an at least more fixed tagging scheme than what we currently have today. Unfortunately, there's no magic wand to get to this quickly ... Regards, ULFL ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Hello Frederik, It is very easy to sit back and say we'll let the community fix the tagging over time. It is even conceivable that some players who build a business around OSM (and I'm not mentioning names here) may secretly want the tagging mayhem to continue because they already have software to work around the issues and they view that as a competitive advantage. It's another thing to be involved and choose a side. Something very simple is the ability to add tags for which no documentation exist (on the wiki). Someone who does that either made a spelling mistake, is too lazy to write documentation, or, even worse, did not bother to look at what other people did. And writing software to prohibit this is quite easy. Regards, Nic On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, NopMap wrote: OSM is quite suitable for any hobby project, but I believe that the anarchistic nature and the often controversial and sometimes disputed and chaotic tagging are reason enough to deter the use of OSM in any professional area where you are talking about warranties. I don't think that the line is between hobby and professional. OSM with their volunteers does one kind of mapping, and TeleAtlas with their vans does another kind of mapping. Each has its own distinctive advantages. There are professional users wo spend money on OSM data when they *already have* TeleAtlas data. The commercial maps have fixed tagging schemes, minimum quality standards and only accept trained personnel as mappers. They have long turnaround times and cost a lot of money to maintain. At OSM we have no fixed tagging schema, no minimum quality standards, and anyone can map. We have super fast turnaround times and cost nothing to maintain. Different approaches - different results. Not worse or better; different. I don't see how you could have the advantages without the disadvantages. Add a fixed tagging scheme and peer review to OSM and you get more quality but less data and longer turnaround times; before long you are TeleAtlas v2.0 and have to charge for maps to pay your mappers because nobody does it for fun any more. So, yes, in my eyes the approach is really take it or leave it, and if someone decides he'd rather use TeleAtlas or Navteq then by all means, let him do it. I don't know why Dave F finds this VERY disillusioning; what was his illusion then? For OSM to rule the world? I think the world is much better of with a few map datasets following different approaches that with a one size fits all dataset. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:08 PM, Igor Brejc igor.br...@gmail.com wrote: Frederik, All this is true, but I think we are too concentrated on generating content (i.e. mapping) as opposed to actually using this data for some meaningful purpose. I guess this is natural, since majority of OSM users are mostly map data producers, and only the minority is actively involved in map consuming. It is right that we are all concentrating on creation of content. But, what we haven't had yet is any commercial map data consumers telling us what they need. Well, in a way, maybe Nav4All is telling us what it needs... and I sometimes hear Cloudmade banging on about routing. It would be interesting to have some map consumer tell us what their minimum mapping needs. Statements like OSM has been looked at but is no solution because there is no full coverage don't help us to provide what they need. While mappers might be uncomfortable to mark out an area and tag it with ok_for_Nav4All=yes, I think I would be happy to mark out areas with road_network=complete and cycle_network=complete, based on some definition provided by someone who would actually use that information. Come on guys tell us what you need. 80n My point is that we should listen to people who are trying to use our mapping data (both for non-profit and commercially). After all, isn't it the whole point of OSM to produce something useful? Or is just so that we can show a nice world map on the main page? Regards, Igor Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, NopMap wrote: OSM is quite suitable for any hobby project, but I believe that the anarchistic nature and the often controversial and sometimes disputed and chaotic tagging are reason enough to deter the use of OSM in any professional area where you are talking about warranties. I don't think that the line is between hobby and professional. OSM with their volunteers does one kind of mapping, and TeleAtlas with their vans does another kind of mapping. Each has its own distinctive advantages. There are professional users wo spend money on OSM data when they *already have* TeleAtlas data. The commercial maps have fixed tagging schemes, minimum quality standards and only accept trained personnel as mappers. They have long turnaround times and cost a lot of money to maintain. At OSM we have no fixed tagging schema, no minimum quality standards, and anyone can map. We have super fast turnaround times and cost nothing to maintain. Different approaches - different results. Not worse or better; different. I don't see how you could have the advantages without the disadvantages. Add a fixed tagging scheme and peer review to OSM and you get more quality but less data and longer turnaround times; before long you are TeleAtlas v2.0 and have to charge for maps to pay your mappers because nobody does it for fun any more. So, yes, in my eyes the approach is really take it or leave it, and if someone decides he'd rather use TeleAtlas or Navteq then by all means, let him do it. I don't know why Dave F finds this VERY disillusioning; what was his illusion then? For OSM to rule the world? I think the world is much better of with a few map datasets following different approaches that with a one size fits all dataset. Bye Frederik -- http://igorbrejc.net ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] mapgen.pl
hi, just published the first really usable version of my new renderer here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapgen.pl enjoy, if you are interested... feedback welcome! cheers gerhard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
2010/2/1 80n 80n...@gmail.com: Come on guys tell us what you need. 80n How about generic tagging system for the start and improve from there? Some sort of *generic* standards for tagging before tag it and it will come. Problem is that there are people who are ready to map before working on tagging. And people who would like to work on tagging, but have difficulties to get first party to agree. We need some kind of beloved imperator, be it human being or unofficial tagging/mapping guide, who says what is what and that's it. Problem is that we *know* what map consumers want - consistent data where they are available - but there are people in OSM who simply aren't ready to agree for this. People like me have been talking about this for some year. Cheers, Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Ulf Lamping wrote: Seems a lot of mappers would be quite happy to follow an at least more fixed tagging scheme than what we currently have today. Unfortunately, there's no magic wand to get to this quickly ... It's beginning to happen already. As OSM's data structures (principally creative and unexpected uses of relations) and tags become more complex, and as the project expands beyond the initial audience of geeks, the editing tools are inevitably starting to abstract away the nitty-gritty. In two years' time, most users won't know or care what the cycleway tags are; they'll just click the cycleway icon(s) in their editor and tick the appropriate options, and the editor will invisibly sort the tags out. cheers Richard -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Fwd-Nav4All-navigation-shut-down-by-Navteq-tp4488024p4496813.html Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapgen.pl
sounds exciting, so It does what mapnik does, but in perl? mike On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 9:38 PM, Gary68 g...@gary68.de wrote: hi, just published the first really usable version of my new renderer here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapgen.pl enjoy, if you are interested... feedback welcome! cheers gerhard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] for the examiner.com
this person is asking for assistance / comments on an article http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/cpalmer/diary/9435 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapgen.pl
Hi Gary, where do I get the OSM module? cpanplus claims it is not on CPAN. Or is it compatible with Geo::OSM ? Cheers, and thanks for your good work, Jochen On Lun 01 Feb 2010, Gary68 wrote: just published the first really usable version of my new renderer here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapgen.pl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Hi, Richard Fairhurst wrote: It's beginning to happen already. As OSM's data structures (principally creative and unexpected uses of relations) and tags become more complex, and as the project expands beyond the initial audience of geeks, the editing tools are inevitably starting to abstract away the nitty-gritty. In two years' time, most users won't know or care what the cycleway tags are; they'll just click the cycleway icon(s) in their editor and tick the appropriate options, and the editor will invisibly sort the tags out. I don't think that will make the we need fixed rules fraction happy. We have renderers with fixed rules today - several of them - but that kind of fixed rules is not what they are looking for. If we have several different editors with different icons, I don't think that will help. You'll only move the fight to somewhere else. People will discuss endlessly about what should be on the tool tip of the cycleway button. Use this only if there is a blue sign with a bicycle on it - But my country has no blue signs with bicycles. Ulf wrote: Seems a lot of mappers would be quite happy to follow an at least more fixed tagging scheme than what we currently have today. You make this sound as if this is about the freedom of the new mappers. But they are, even today, free to follow any ruleset, cheatsheet, or book that they want to use. It's just that they don't get a guarantee that everyone else is using the same ruleset but that's ok - there might be rulesets much too complex for a newcomer, or the newcomer ruleset for rural Peru might be different from the one for urban Japan. Trying to make them all the same will needlessly reduce OSM's richness. These rulesets are unlikely to be devised by the same body; it would be too complex and the result would be less than optimal for everyone involved. (In my OSM talks I like to show a communist-era poster about a five-year command economy plan. Command economy sounds like a good idea on paper but it turns out that the amount of planning required to get it to work is more than mankind can muster. The same, I think, is true for a world-wide OSM Ontology.) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapgen.pl
There might be an osm module in the svn from osm iirc. On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Jochen Plumeyer joc...@plumeyer.org wrote: Hi Gary, where do I get the OSM module? cpanplus claims it is not on CPAN. Or is it compatible with Geo::OSM ? Cheers, and thanks for your good work, Jochen On Lun 01 Feb 2010, Gary68 wrote: just published the first really usable version of my new renderer here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapgen.pl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapgen.pl
Hi again, what I really like is, that in the generated example PDF you can find street names in Acrobat Reader via normal text search. And thanks to the simpler rendering scheme, using just single colour lines, the PDF seems to be small as well. Very nice. Jochen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Hi Frederik, On Lun 01 Feb 2010, Frederik Ramm wrote: (In my OSM talks I like to show a communist-era poster about a five-year command economy plan. Command economy sounds like a good idea on paper but it turns out that the amount of planning required to get it to work is more than mankind can muster. The same, I think, is true for a world-wide OSM Ontology.) But hey, the old failed communists had bad computers. Modern logistics planning today would be a totally different ... failure, as you can see in Haiti. Cheers, Jochen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Nic, It is very easy to sit back and say we'll let the community fix the tagging over time. It is even conceivable that some players who build a business around OSM (and I'm not mentioning names here) may secretly want the tagging mayhem to continue because they already have software to work around the issues and they view that as a competitive advantage. It is conceivable but would be very short-sighted of them. I can't speak for others of course but if I had something that neatly streamlined OSM data and removed the issues then I would try to make the community (and first and foremost the renderers) use it - because that would be the only way to make sure it works across the breadth of OSM and stays in sync with what's en vogue. And as for competitive advantage - that'd be gone with the new license anyway. It's another thing to be involved and choose a side. It is my honest belief that if all those fixed-rule-enthusiasts had their way, OSM would become uninteresting, mappers reduced to drones filling out forms that other people have provided for them. It might become more commercially viable (with businesses fighting over what presets get put into the most widely-used editors so that drones will create more valuable data), but if I had to choose I'd rather be part of an interesting project than one that's commercially viable. Something very simple is the ability to add tags for which no documentation exist (on the wiki). Someone who does that either made a spelling mistake, is too lazy to write documentation, or, even worse, did not bother to look at what other people did. And writing software to prohibit this is quite easy. Very good, you've come far already: 1. You have named the problem: Tagging mayhem! 2. You have found the culprit: Lazy mappers. 3. You know they are bad people, because they are either not diligent enough, or lazy, or careless. 4. You suggest technical means for getting rid of them: Prohibit! Nothing personal but this is because I react badly to all these rules discussions. Mappers are reduced to lazy idiots, and software has to be written to make them useful. I don't like the thinking behind this. We are a project to which people contribute out of their free will in their spare time. We are not a meat grinder. Having said that, if lack of documentation is your main concern, I could well envisage a pop-up in JOSM that goes: You have just entered a tag that is not documented on the Wiki. Please provide one line of documentation for this new tag in the language of your choice, or click here if you do not want to be asked about this tag again. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Fwd: FOSS4G 2010 Call for Papers
Now look at that guy. Barcelona, Spain - as if he hasn't followed the latest developments on osm-talk! Original Message Subject: FOSS4G 2010 Call for Papers Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:08:44 -0800 From: Paul Ramsey pram...@cleverelephant.ca To: PostGIS Users Discussion postgis-us...@postgis.refractions.net, GEOS Development List geos-de...@lists.osgeo.org We are pleased to announce the Call for Abstract for the FOSS4G (Free and Open Source Software for Geospatial) 2010 conference, being held September 6-9, in beautiful Barcelona, Spain. Held annually, FOSS4G is the premier conference for the open source geospatial community, providing a full-immersion experience in established and leading edge geospatial technologies for developers, users, and people new to open source geospatial. http://2010.foss4g.org FOSS4G 2010 presentations are 25 minute talks, with 5 minute question and answer sessions at the end. Presentations cover the use or development of open source geospatial software. Anyone can can submit a presentation proposal and take part in the conference as a presenter. Some topics of interest for this year are: * Case Studies: Relate the experiences of you and your organization using open source geospatial. Where do things work well? Poorly? What problems did you solve, and at what cost? What do you recommend for others? Why? * Benchmarks: Comparisons between pieces of geospatial software. How do features compare? Speed? Ease of use? What do you recommend for others? * Visualization: Tell about your tips and tricks for effective visualization. How do you present information in a compelling way? 3D? Cartographic tricks? Labelling and naming ideas? Graphs and hybrid map/data combinations? * Development: What are the new developments in your open source geospatial software product? How does it work, how do people use it, what are the technical issues you are running into? * Hacks and Mashing: Have you put together something novel or cool this year? What did you stick together, how did it work, show us your gizmo! * Collaboration: What techniques are you using to improve collaboration between organizations and between individuals. Public geodata, collaborative data collection, data sharing, open standards, de facto standards, and more! If you have an open source geospatial story to tell, we want to hear it! For more information, see the FOSS4G site: http://2010.foss4g.org/presentations.php The deadline for abstract submissions is April 1, 2010. Submit early, submit often! == Academic Track == The FOSS4G 2010 academic track aims to bringing together researchers, developers, users and practitioners carrying out research and development in the geospatial and the free and open source fields and willing to share original and recent research developments and experiences. The academic track will act as an inventory of current research topics, but the major goal is to promote cooperative research between OSGeo developers and the academia. The academic track is the right forum to highlight the most important research challenges and trends in the domain, and let them became the basis for an informal OSGeo research agenda. It will foster interdisciplinary discussions in all aspects of the geospatial and free and open source domains. It will be organized in a way to promote networking between the participants, to initiate and favour discussions regarding cutting-edge technologies in the field, to exchange research ideas and to promote international collaboration. == Submission Guidelines == All submissions to the academic track must be original unpublished work written in English. Papers should not exceed the 6000 words limit. Formatting guidelines will be available soon. Submitted papers will be thoroughly reviewed by three members of the international scientific committee and refereed for their quality, originality and relevance. Submission deadline (full paper for the academic track) - May, 31th, 2010 == Upcoming Milestones == 15 Jan 2010, Call for Workshops/Tutorials opens 30 Jan 2010, Call for Workshops/Tutorials closes 1 Feb 2010, Call for Abstracts opens 16 Feb 2010, Notification of acceptance for workshops/tutorials 22 Feb 2010, Registration for workshop and tutorials opens 1 Apr 2010, Abstract submission deadline 1 May 2010, Presenters notified of acceptance for talks 15 Jun 2010, Author/Early registration deadline 15 Jul 2010 Full article submission deadline Aug 2010, Completed program available 6-7 Sep 2010, FOSS4G Workshops 7-9 Sep 2010, FOSS4G Presentations and Tutorials 10 Sep 2010, FOSS4G Code Sprint ___ geos-devel mailing list geos-de...@lists.osgeo.org http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/geos-devel -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapgen.pl
Hi again, it seems the OSM.pm Perl module used to be at On Lun 01 Feb 2010, Jochen Plumeyer wrote: Hi Gary, where do I get the OSM module? cpanplus claims it is not on CPAN. Or is it compatible with Geo::OSM ? Cheers, and thanks for your good work, Jochen On Lun 01 Feb 2010, Gary68 wrote: just published the first really usable version of my new renderer here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapgen.pl ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapgen.pl
Hi again, it seems the OSM.pm Perl module used to be at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/User:Gary68 , you announced the module like this about 2 years ago. But that URL doesn't work anymore. Cheers, Jochen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapgen.pl
http://svn.openstreetmap.org/applications/utils/gary68/OSM/osm.pm On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 11:20 PM, Jochen Plumeyer joc...@plumeyer.org wrote: Hi again, it seems the OSM.pm Perl module used to be at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/User:Gary68 , you announced the module like this about 2 years ago. But that URL doesn't work anymore. Cheers, Jochen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] New Video Tutorial: Presets in Potlatch
Here's another new video tutorial: OSM Tutorial - Using the Keyboard to Save Presets in Potlatch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAnt2RSaEEAfmt=18 The 55-second video will help you to work more efficiently in OpenStreetMap.org's Potlatch Editor. Reference: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Potlatch/Keyboard_shortcuts Enjoy, Margie -- Margie http://www.BaltimoreUrbanAg.org http://www.Real-Food-Farm.org http://www.FriendlyCoffeehouse.org http://www.packtpub.com/drupal-5-views-recipes/book ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: FOSS4G 2010 Call for Papers
El Lunes, 1 de Febrero de 2010, Frederik Ramm escribió: Now look at that guy. Barcelona, Spain - as if he hasn't followed the latest developments on osm-talk! Yeah. Meanwhile we'll be able to map Venezuela properly: http://osm.org/go/Yla_45u- -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es Un ordenador no es un televisor ni un microondas, es una herramienta compleja. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Am 01.02.2010 22:48, schrieb Frederik Ramm: Hi, Richard Fairhurst wrote: It's beginning to happen already. As OSM's data structures (principally creative and unexpected uses of relations) ROFL ;-) and tags become more complex, and as the project expands beyond the initial audience of geeks, the editing tools are inevitably starting to abstract away the nitty-gritty. In two years' time, most users won't know or care what the cycleway tags are; they'll just click the cycleway icon(s) in their editor and tick the appropriate options, and the editor will invisibly sort the tags out. Yes, like the presets in JOSM, and I guess this will continue. The current relation editing e.g. still has a *lot* of room for improvements. I don't think that will make the we need fixed rules fraction happy. We have renderers with fixed rules today - several of them - but that kind of fixed rules is not what they are looking for. The problem is, that the renderers don't show enough of the variety the mappers want to map. Seems to me that tag discussions very often cool down once a map really is showing a specific feature - maybe except cycleways ;-) Ulf wrote: Seems a lot of mappers would be quite happy to follow an at least more fixed tagging scheme than what we currently have today. You make this sound as if this is about the freedom of the new mappers. But they are, even today, free to follow any ruleset, cheatsheet, or book that they want to use. The problem is: There is no such thing, once you leave the warm and cozy world of presets and Map Features. If you enter the wonderful world of Wiki proposal pages, this becomes a jungle of inconsistent, disputed information. This might be fun for the initial audience of geeks, but today most mappers are pragmatic and just want to get this damn thing on the map :-) I don't think of them as lazy idiots, but simply pragmatic in the way they spend their time. Not everyone want's to spend his/her whole life in the OSM universe. It's just that they don't get a guarantee that everyone else is using the same ruleset but that's ok - there might be rulesets much too complex for a newcomer, or the newcomer ruleset for rural Peru might be different from the one for urban Japan. Trying to make them all the same will needlessly reduce OSM's richness. These rulesets are unlikely to be devised by the same body; it would be too complex and the result would be less than optimal for everyone involved. I'm not convinced that this is actually true. (In my OSM talks I like to show a communist-era poster about a five-year command economy plan. Command economy sounds like a good idea on paper but it turns out that the amount of planning required to get it to work is more than mankind can muster. The same, I think, is true for a world-wide OSM Ontology.) There are lot's of possible solutions somewhere between a five year plan and the Wiki confusion of today ... Regards, ULFL ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
El Lunes, 1 de Febrero de 2010, Richard Fairhurst escribió: [...] they'll just click the cycleway icon(s) in their editor and tick the appropriate options, and the editor will invisibly sort the tags out. *If* we don't ban the editor before :-) -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es Your object is to save the world, while still leading a pleasant life. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
El Lunes, 1 de Febrero de 2010, 80n escribió: It is right that we are all concentrating on creation of content. But, what we haven't had yet is any commercial map data consumers telling us what they need. Well, in a way, maybe Nav4All is telling us what it needs... and I sometimes hear Cloudmade banging on about routing. The problem with this is the sofixit response. OSM works like many other open-source projects, where someone says: Hey, X is bad - and a developer replies Yeah, and this is open source, so fix it. The OSM community works the same way. I'm not going to work for a company just because they ask for it very nicely. Dammit, if a company wants me to fix OSM in some way, I could as well get paid for that! Maybe the time is coming for the business model in where I get OSM data, fork it, fix it in some way, and stamp a certified technicial-approved version on the cover. For just a couple grand. You want OSM to comply with certain quality standards? Well, either invest in that, or pay for that. But it's not gonna magically come from the users. Cheers, -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es Un ordenador no es un televisor ni un microondas, es una herramienta compleja. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 12:13 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Having said that, if lack of documentation is your main concern, I could well envisage a pop-up in JOSM that goes: You have just entered a tag that is not documented on the Wiki. Please provide one line of documentation for this new tag in the language of your choice, or click here if you do not want to be asked about this tag again. How long does it take to log into the wiki and write one or two sentences ? I'm not saying my proposal is the magic wand. A number of small things will slowly shrink the problem. * Richard's idea of an abstraction layer in the editor (that the user can hopefully bypass...). * Various users cleaning up the wiki. Some pages look so much better than a year or two ago. * And when all of the above failed : Bots. But dealing with it upstream is so much better than dealing with it down stream. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Hi, Iván Sánchez Ortega wrote: El Lunes, 1 de Febrero de 2010, Richard Fairhurst escribió: [...] they'll just click the cycleway icon(s) in their editor and tick the appropriate options, and the editor will invisibly sort the tags out. *If* we don't ban the editor before :-) Needless to say that banning Potlatch is one of the core elements of professionalising OSM. Now where was my five year masterplan again ;-) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Igor Brejc wrote: ... I think we are too concentrated on generating content (i.e. mapping) as opposed to actually using this data for some meaningful purpose. I guess this is natural, since majority of OSM users are mostly map data producers, and only the minority is actively involved in map consuming. My point is that we should listen to people who are trying to use our mapping data (both for non-profit and commercially). After all, isn't it the whole point of OSM to produce something useful? Or is just so that we can show a nice world map on the main page? Personally, I'm here as a map consumer. I was looking for handheld GPS maps about 18 months ago and OSM was the only option that was not (a) expensive, (b) a bit rubbish or (c) both. Also, Ordnance Survey paper coverage was a bit poor where I live because it hadn't kept pace with landscape changes (railways, mining etc.). Speaking as someone who spends the occasional weekend walking around the Peak District and dropping by a pub or two, I'm a happy camper - where OSM has coverage it's usually better than anything else. However, wearing another hat, I work for a company that occasionally gets asked by customers how to display business information on a map. Usually they don't have much money to spend (does anyone?). OSM data ought to be an option, but there are a couple of issues: One is coverage, discussed better here: http://fakestevec.blogspot.com/2010/01/shitholes.html than I could. The other is licensing (yes - I know - I'm sorry). I'm not a lawyer, but even I can have a go at navigating through Google's maze of twisty little licence pages, all different and come out with an answer at the end (which is usually no, you can't legally do what you were hoping to). Unfortunately, OSM seems to be more complicated. I've read the legal FAQ in the wiki. I've read the Common licence interpretations page - and I still have no idea whether a particular use constitutes a derivative or a collective work. I suspect that many prospective users will have given up before the we strongly advise you to obtain legal advice bit (despite that being the correct answer, of course). What would really help the interpretations page would be some examples, similar to the ODL Use Cases, but for the current licence. For instance, a company (let's call them Elcheapotech) wants to plot its customers' locations on a map. It doesn't want to update the data, or sell anything based upon it - it just wants a background seeing where things are. They won't object to displaying an attribution on-screen. They probably wouldn't object if someone said that they had to host a copy of the original OSM data, but they would object if they had to make public their overlay. They're not selling their overlaid data - just using it internally. Is that allowed? If yes (or no), why? (or why not?). The way that I read the 1st part of the 4th paragraph of the interpretations page suggests that someone thinks that this would be a derivative work, but the last part suggests collective work. If the 2nd of these is correct, what happens if Elcheapotech wants to sell the expertise that it has gained by doing the same thing that it has internally as a service for other companies? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
Hi, Someoneelse wrote: For instance, a company (let's call them Elcheapotech) wants to plot its customers' locations on a map. [...] but they would object if they had to make public their overlay. If they publish their overlay (for example in their yearly report - it counts as publishing even if the report is only given to selected people) then they have to do so under CC-BY-SA which will allow those who receive the work to copy from it. If they don't publish, then they don't publish. Much like the GPL, this doesn't mean that you have to give the work to everyone - it's just that those whom you give it to have the right to do with it whatever they please (under CC-BY-SA). what happens if Elcheapotech wants to sell the expertise that it has gained by doing the same thing that it has internally as a service for other companies? I give my secret data to Elcheapotech. They plot it on an OSM map and give me a PDF. The PDF is now under CC-BY-SA (because, having left Elcheapotech's business, it is considered published). However, Elcheaptoech hasn't given the PDF to anyone else but me, and doesn't have to. I, in turn, use it internally and neither I nor my employees have an interest in publishing it. So everything is fine. This interpretation of public/publish (as soon as it leaves your house, even if you only hand it to a print shop for copying, it is published) is not shared by everyone; some say that having a contractor work on your data for you does not count as publish. But the distinction is not relevant in your case. And legal-talk is - that way. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Tagging Multiple Services to a Company/Building
Message: 5 Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:24:59 -0500 From: Richard Weait rich...@weait.com Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Wine Farm and Wellness Spa Tagging To: talk@openstreetmap.org Message-ID: a768be481001311124r33827146s316bca459035c...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Ian Mc Shane ianmcsh...@live.co.za wrote: I've been using shop=beauty for spas, tanning, nail salons, and similar. Then discriminating between them with the name tag. shop=beauty name=Something or other Spa Certainly using beauty=spa / tanning / nails / massage / etc. would work if needed. I am going to be doing more reading up on the Spa tagging, but I do like what you have done. Another question that came to mind when reading what you have done: How do I denote the different services that a particular company owned building provides? For example with a bank that provides private banking services as well as foreign exchange and maybe a few other things? not all banks provide all those services, some only provide a small subset. Or, in keeping with the spa example, a particular spa which provides a whole range of different services where another may only provide tanning and massage? Anyone have any thoughts or possible implementations? Thanks, Ian ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Nav4All navigation shut down by Navteq
On 2 February 2010 11:44, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: If they publish their overlay (for example in their yearly report - it counts as publishing even if the report is only given to selected people) then they have to do so under CC-BY-SA which will allow those who receive the work to copy from it. If they don't publish, then they don't publish. If they have their customer locations as a kml file which gets over laid on base tiles then it's not a derivative, just like drawing on a sheet of clear plastic and putting it on top of a map doesn't make it a derivative. This is usually the most common option anyway since people want pointy clicky to pop-up additional information. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Multiple Services to a Company/Building
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 2:57 PM, Ian Mc Shane ianmcsh...@live.co.za wrote: private banking services private_banking_services=yes foreign exchange foreign_exchange=yes tanning tanning=yes massage? massage=yes Note I'm just thinking aloud - but they would do the job, would they not...? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Most of Busselton deleted
I've forwarded a copy of your email to the main talk list, some people have scripts to be able to easily revert changes but I don't have anything set up at present. On 2 February 2010 15:45, Arie Paap wildmy...@gmail.com wrote: Can someone suggest how to deal with this kind of vandalism: Most of Busselton appears to have been deleted by user MAA on 31/1/2010. See following links: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-33.6573lon=115.3547zoom=12layers=B000FTFT http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/MAA/edits http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3756449 Is there an easy way to revert this kind of changeset? Arie ___ Talk-au mailing list talk...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [talk-au] Most of Busselton deleted
will do it, no conflicts detected in dry run edit definitely looks destruction done by a newbie please notify the user why this has been done and explain how to edit. On 1 Feb 2010, at 21:54 , John Smith wrote: I've forwarded a copy of your email to the main talk list, some people have scripts to be able to easily revert changes but I don't have anything set up at present. On 2 February 2010 15:45, Arie Paap wildmy...@gmail.com wrote: Can someone suggest how to deal with this kind of vandalism: Most of Busselton appears to have been deleted by user MAA on 31/1/2010. See following links: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-33.6573lon=115.3547zoom=12layers=B000FTFT http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/MAA/edits http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3756449 Is there an easy way to revert this kind of changeset? Arie ___ Talk-au mailing list talk...@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] If you want to help with OSM, and dont know what to do, help out with the Kosovo and Albania project
jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Todos: * don't overwrite existing streets. * run the validator, merge street segments * join streets that end near each other. * don't upload points that are not connected. In the sections I'm importing at the moment there is a couple existing roads. Based on the changeset info they appear to be based on the low-res yahoo imagery. They don't really match up with the iMMAP data very well. Initially I was trying to merge them in, adding nodes at intersections etc but I sort of suspect they are so inaccurate compared with the iMMAP data that it not really worth the effort. What does everyone else think? A couple of sample here: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/40134025 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/40134040/history Cheers rcr ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] If you want to help with OSM, and dont know what to do, help out with the Kosovo and Albania project
I forgot one more import, We are working on importing the house data from a goverment agency, KPAonline.org that has GPS positions and old streetnames. http://groups.google.com/group/free-software-conference/browse_thread/thread/5fbea63ef8efe659 The streetnames in kosovo have changed many times, there are following names: 1. Serbian and Albanian names under tito http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josip_Broz_Tito 2. Serbian and Albanian names under Milosovic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slobodan_Milo%C5%A1evi%C4%87 3. Serbian and Albanian names under Unmic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Interim_Administration_Mission_in_Kosovo 4. and finally the names that have been changed since becoming a state http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo In Prizren, they have names also in Turkish and English. I have been collecting names here with sources, it will be alot of work. http://kosova.wikia.com/wiki/PrishtinaStreets http://kosova.wikia.com/wiki/PrizrenStreets Not only do we have Serbian and Albanian names, but also at least 3 different spellings for each one. Most roads have no signs. And you have cyrillic forms for the serbian ones. All that lead to utter chaos and most people dont even know the Streetnames at all. Here are some other sources of POIS: www.kta-kosovo.org the privatization agency and the business registry www.arbk.org (we have a scraper for this) I would like to see more tools to manage the storage and association of address data to osm data. We could make a database of all know addresses in Kosovo and then try and find locations for them. Mike On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 8:58 AM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/h4ck3rm1k3/diary/9405 Everybody is invited to help out with Kosovo and Albania. I know that there are alot of new people working on Haiti, and if that project is saturated and you are looking for something to do to help out, please help out the people in the Balkans. We have been getting alot of raw data and there is so much work to do. We have 10 million gps+ points that need to be traced (from Logistic Plus a delivery company) We have The entire streetnetwork of Kosovo that needs to be merged and imported (from iimap, the disaster relief) We have Highres maps of Prishtina with every building , parcel and street on it from the town. And we have lots of cleanup to do, validation, removing of duplicates. We have also the problem of naming of the streets etc. For Albania we also have the GNS names I have converted, We have the street network from DLR in vector format, and we have lots of highres photos that need to be traced. All of these are documented in my diary somewhere, if you are are iterested and cannot find them, let me know. Most of the data is posted on archive.org just look. Now we have a team in Kosovo that is working on mapping, They are doing a great job but many of them are new. There is so much work that we would need another 10 people working on it ! So if anyone has time and wants to help, all help is welcome! mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] OSM op Garmin
Was mevrouw Lambertus een weekendje weg weg ofzo :) Goed werk :) --Roeland On Monday 01 February 2010 09:35:25 Lambertus wrote: Volgens mij komt dit door een nieuwe versie van Mkgmap waar een bug in zit. Het schijnt dat de allernieuwste dit probleem niet meer heeft, dus die ga ik voor de volgende update gebruiken. Voor nu ben ik terug gegaan naar de kaart update van 20 januari. De website heeft dit weekend ook een update gekregen: het laden van de Garmin kaart coordinaten gaat veel sneller en de landen worden dynamisch geconfigureerd (o.a. met dank aan greencaps voor een applicatie die land polygonen matched met Garmin kaart coordinaten). De landenlijst wordt langzamerhand uitgebreid. Ook zorgt het kaartcombineer script op de server er nu voor dat er voldoende ruimte op de hardeschijf is om de kaart aanvraag af te kunnen handelen. Voorheen wilde de hardeschijf ook wel eens vol raken waardoor kaart aanvragen mislukten, nu blijven ze in de wachtrij staan totdat er ruimte is. Al met al een productief weekend ;-) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] OSM op Garmin
Ik geloof niet dat uberhaupt op huisnummer kunt zoeken met kaarten gemaakt met Mkgmap. Ik geeft op mijn 60CSx altijd een standaard nummer (maakt niet uit welke) en dan wil de search nog wel eens werken. Ideaal is het nog niet! Jacob Bax wrote: Weet nog niet hoe het zit met de gps (60CSx) maar in Mapsource zie ik wel plaats en straatnamen tijdens het zoeken naar adressen maar er komt nooit resultaat, heeft het overigens nog gedaan. Ook niet in de gps zelf overigens, het resultaat wat ik in de gps krijg komt van City Navigator af. Jacob Bax jacob...@xs4all.nl http://www.xs4all.nl/~jacobbax/ ICQ: 4271003 ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Ei van Ommel (A67 afslag 38 Asten)
Stefan de Konink wrote: Maar goed, dat is ook direct het probleem met OpenStreetMap, het gaat in de wereld om ons heen om het verzamelen van data, en bij ons om het bijhouden van data. Iedere weg die je opknipt krijgt +1 setje tags die je appart moet bij houden. ik hak dit soort dingen ook altijd in stukjes, leek me logisch omdat de route altijd langs dezelfde kant van de rotonde gaat. wat nou als dit de route is? (ascii alert) ++ ++ ----+ + + +++ als + daar de route is moet je de weg (-) toch echt in stukjes hakken... gr, floris ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Ei van Ommel (A67 afslag 38 Asten)
In your letter dated Mon, 1 Feb 2010 09:44:40 +0100 (CET) you wrote: Stefan de Konink wrote: Maar goed, dat is ook direct het probleem met OpenStreetMap, het gaat in de wereld om ons heen om het verzamelen van data, en bij ons om het bijhouden van data. Iedere weg die je opknipt krijgt +1 setje tags die je appart moet bij houden. ik hak dit soort dingen ook altijd in stukjes, leek me logisch omdat de route altijd langs dezelfde kant van de rotonde gaat. wat nou als dit de route is? (ascii alert) ++ ++ ---1++2-4 + + 3++ als + daar de route is moet je de weg (-) toch echt in stukjes hakken... Ik heb even wat cijfers in je plaatje gezet. Ik neem aan dat je doet op dat stukje tussen 2 en 4. Je kan dat oplossen door een punt in de weg die wel gevolgd moet worden op te nemen (3). ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] Huidige status van NL kaarten
Dag mensen, Ik ben vrij nieuw met het hele OSM gebeuren en heb me maar eens aangemeld op deze mailinglist. Ik ben aan het kijken in hoeverre de OSM kaarten geschikt zijn voor een projectje dat ik op het ookg heb. Zelf ben ik volledig blind en voor deze doelgroep is GPS-navigatie natuurlijk een erg handig hulpmiddel. Nadeel bij commerciele producten is allereerst de prijs, iets dat specifiek voor een doelgroep wordt ontwikkeld mag blijkbaar automatisch 4 maal zo veel kosten dan het standaardproduct waar het van is afgeleid. Om een idee te geven, extra opties die in het desbetreffende product zijn toegevoegd zijn onder andere een lijstje van kruisingen in de buurt en een where am I feature, technisch niet heel spannend dus. Verder zijn de standaardkaarten van TeleAtlas en Navteq gewoon niet handig voor voetgangers. Ik ben weleens omgeleid ivm een eenrichtingsweg waar ik als voetganger natuurlijk geen boodschap aan heb. Om van het gebrek aan info over fiets- en voetpaden die niet langs een autoweg lopen nog maar te zwijgen. Nu een van de producten voor de blinde doelgroep, Wayfinder access, is gestopt door overname van het moederbedrijf door Vodafone, ben ik eens gaan bekijken wwelke mogelijkheden er zijn om een opensource product te bouwen dat vergelijkbare functionaliteit biedt. Hiervoor heb ik het volgende nodig: - Geocoding op basis van straat+huisnummer en reverse geocoding, liefst ook op huisnumemr niveau, om een waar ben ik feature aan te bieden - Info over kruispunten (welke straten maken hier deel van uit in welke richtingen), welke kruisingen zijn er in de buurt - Betere info over beschikbare voetpaden voor voetgangersrouting - Flinke POI database zou leuk zijn Om bovenstaande samen te vatten is mijn vraag dus in hoeverre de Nederlandse kaart op dit moment aan deze wensen voldoet. Voor bijvoorbeeld huisnummers heb ik wel een aantal discussies gevonden ivm import van de AND data, maar geen duidelijke huidige status. Groet, Bram ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Huidige status van NL kaarten
On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:56:09 +0100, Bram Duvigneau b...@bramd.nl wrote: Nu een van de producten voor de blinde doelgroep, Wayfinder access, is gestopt door overname van het moederbedrijf door Vodafone, ben ik eens gaan bekijken wwelke mogelijkheden er zijn om een opensource product te bouwen dat vergelijkbare functionaliteit biedt. Hiervoor heb ik het volgende nodig: - Geocoding op basis van straat+huisnummer en reverse geocoding, liefst ook op huisnumemr niveau, om een waar ben ik feature aan te bieden - Info over kruispunten (welke straten maken hier deel van uit in welke richtingen), welke kruisingen zijn er in de buurt - Betere info over beschikbare voetpaden voor voetgangersrouting - Flinke POI database zou leuk zijn Om bovenstaande samen te vatten is mijn vraag dus in hoeverre de Nederlandse kaart op dit moment aan deze wensen voldoet. Voor bijvoorbeeld huisnummers heb ik wel een aantal discussies gevonden ivm import van de AND data, maar geen duidelijke huidige status. Ten eerste: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_for_the_blind Verder: - straatnamen zijn overal wel aanwezig, huisnummers zeker niet. Er zou wel ergens een bestand met huisnummers zijn, maar die is niet compleet geimporteerd. - info over kruispunten zul je in de applicatie moeten bouwen. De gegevens zijn er en met een simpele look-up is in een applicatie altijd aan te geven wat er in de buurt is. - routing is ook iets wat de applicatie moet doen. Voor voetgangers zijn er natuurlijk andere routeringsregels dan voor auto's. Voetgangers hebben geen eenrichtingsstraat, maar moeten niet over autosnelwegen gestuurd worden. De AND data heeft zelf weinig tot geen aparte voetpaden en fietspaden maar die zijn op verschillende plaatsen wel al bijgevoegd. - POI's zijn nodes in de database, die zijn er met de huidige query mogelijkheden uit te halen. Groeten, Maarten ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Huidige status van NL kaarten
On Monday 01 Feb 2010 10:56:09 Bram Duvigneau wrote: Ik ben vrij nieuw met het hele OSM gebeuren en heb me maar eens aangemeld op deze mailinglist. Ik ben aan het kijken in hoeverre de OSM kaarten geschikt zijn voor een projectje dat ik op het ookg heb. Welkom op de OSM-NL mailing list :) - Geocoding op basis van straat+huisnummer en reverse geocoding, liefst ook op huisnumemr niveau, om een waar ben ik feature aan te bieden Huisnummers zijn aanwezig in OSM, maar nog niet met grote dekking. Er zijn een aantal OSM'ers actief bezig met het invoeren hiervan. - Info over kruispunten (welke straten maken hier deel van uit in welke richtingen), welke kruisingen zijn er in de buurt Simpele kruisingen zijn eenvoudig uit de data te halen. Complexere kruisingen met gescheiden rijbanen, zebrapaden, fietspaden en stoplichten zijn lastiger. Zelf geef ik deze nog wel eens aan met een relatie (een OSM data item dat ways bundelt) zodat software kan zien dat het om één kruising gaat in plaats van een collectie kleintjes. - Betere info over beschikbare voetpaden voor voetgangersrouting Dit gaat zeker beter. Er zijn een aantal standaarden vastgelegd per land. In Nederland staat hier bijvoorbeeld in dat voetgangers (en volgens mij ook fietsers) eenrichtingsverkeer negeren. Ook voet- en fietspaden die niet naast een (auto)weg liggen staan in OSM. - Flinke POI database zou leuk zijn Dat zit ook wel goed. En als er wat mist kan dat makkelijk worden toegevoegd. Om bovenstaande samen te vatten is mijn vraag dus in hoeverre de Nederlandse kaart op dit moment aan deze wensen voldoet. Voor bijvoorbeeld huisnummers heb ik wel een aantal discussies gevonden ivm import van de AND data, maar geen duidelijke huidige status. Volgens mij heeft Floris een grafisch overzicht ergens van waar huisnummers zijn ingevoerd. Hij kan je vast in tekst vertellen hoe de status daarvan nu is. Groet, -- Sybren A. Stüvel syb...@stuvel.eu http://stuvel.eu/ signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Huidige status van NL kaarten
Dag Bram, Volgens mij is OpenStreetMap in principe een natuurlijke bondgenoot voor mensen met een (visuele) handicap. Vrijwel alles is opensource en naar wens aan te passen. Geocoding en reverse geocoding is er al, alleen dan komen meteen bij het grootste minpunt in van OSM: we hebben nog veel te weinig huisnummers. Ook zijn er al een paar projecten binnen OSM dat zich met dit onderwerp bezig houden. Een paar links: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Direction_tool_for_Visually_Impaired http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_for_the_blind Voor mobile applicaties schijnt LoadStone interssant te zijn: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Loadstone Zelf heb ik een speciale interface voor YOURS (opensource online routeplanner) op het verlanglijstje staan. Kortom, OSM kan van dienst zijn maar uiteindelijk draait het natuurlijk om de hoeveelheid mankracht dat ingezet wordt voor specialistische toepassingen. Als er meerdere (blinde) mensen zijn die zich voor een bepaald doel inzetten is gebleken dat er snel grote vooruitgang behaald worden. Bram Duvigneau wrote: Dag mensen, Ik ben vrij nieuw met het hele OSM gebeuren en heb me maar eens aangemeld op deze mailinglist. Ik ben aan het kijken in hoeverre de OSM kaarten geschikt zijn voor een projectje dat ik op het ookg heb. Zelf ben ik volledig blind en voor deze doelgroep is GPS-navigatie natuurlijk een erg handig hulpmiddel. Nadeel bij commerciele producten is allereerst de prijs, iets dat specifiek voor een doelgroep wordt ontwikkeld mag blijkbaar automatisch 4 maal zo veel kosten dan het standaardproduct waar het van is afgeleid. Om een idee te geven, extra opties die in het desbetreffende product zijn toegevoegd zijn onder andere een lijstje van kruisingen in de buurt en een where am I feature, technisch niet heel spannend dus. Verder zijn de standaardkaarten van TeleAtlas en Navteq gewoon niet handig voor voetgangers. Ik ben weleens omgeleid ivm een eenrichtingsweg waar ik als voetganger natuurlijk geen boodschap aan heb. Om van het gebrek aan info over fiets- en voetpaden die niet langs een autoweg lopen nog maar te zwijgen. Nu een van de producten voor de blinde doelgroep, Wayfinder access, is gestopt door overname van het moederbedrijf door Vodafone, ben ik eens gaan bekijken wwelke mogelijkheden er zijn om een opensource product te bouwen dat vergelijkbare functionaliteit biedt. Hiervoor heb ik het volgende nodig: - Geocoding op basis van straat+huisnummer en reverse geocoding, liefst ook op huisnumemr niveau, om een waar ben ik feature aan te bieden - Info over kruispunten (welke straten maken hier deel van uit in welke richtingen), welke kruisingen zijn er in de buurt - Betere info over beschikbare voetpaden voor voetgangersrouting - Flinke POI database zou leuk zijn Om bovenstaande samen te vatten is mijn vraag dus in hoeverre de Nederlandse kaart op dit moment aan deze wensen voldoet. Voor bijvoorbeeld huisnummers heb ik wel een aantal discussies gevonden ivm import van de AND data, maar geen duidelijke huidige status. Groet, Bram ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Huidige status van NL kaarten
On 1-2-2010 11:20, Lambertus wrote: Volgens mij is OpenStreetMap in principe een natuurlijke bondgenoot voor mensen met een (visuele) handicap. Vrijwel alles is opensource en naar wens aan te passen. Inderdaad, dat was ook precies mijn idee. De mogelijkheden om alles vast te leggen zijn er al, nu het vastleggen nog... Voorbeeldje: het zou fantastisch zijn om op een station de volgorde van de sporen te weten en voor blinden die met een stok lopen is de info over aanwezigheid van geleidelijnen interessant. Die kennis is er natuurlijk wel bij een deel van de doelgroep, zo kom ik zelf vaak op stations als Arnhem en Utrecht en ken ik daar prima de weg. [...] Ook zijn er al een paar projecten binnen OSM dat zich met dit onderwerp bezig houden. Een paar links: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Direction_tool_for_Visually_Impaired http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_for_the_blind Die had ik al gezien ja. De tweede link beschrijft veel interessante map features, maar tot dat er echt een bruikbaar navigatieproduct is, is de motivatie voor blinden om te gaan mappen waarschijnlijk ook niet zo hoog. Heb de source van de eerste link uitgecheckt en zal het eens bekijken. Voor mobile applicaties schijnt LoadStone interssant te zijn: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Loadstone Inderdaad, al is het nadeel dat deze tool vooral handig is om van POI naar POI te navigeren. Een OSM import is tegenwoordig mogelijk, maar dat geeft nog niet echt een volledige kaart maar slechts een verzameling punten waarlangs een route kan worden gemaakt. Nadeel is dus ook dat relevante punten door de user in Loadstone moeten worden gezet voor het gebruikt kan worden. Kortom, OSM kan van dienst zijn maar uiteindelijk draait het natuurlijk om de hoeveelheid mankracht dat ingezet wordt voor specialistische toepassingen. Als er meerdere (blinde) mensen zijn die zich voor een bepaald doel inzetten is gebleken dat er snel grote vooruitgang behaald worden. Klopt. Ik ben in overleg met een opensource-minded hulpmiddelen leverancier in Nederland die hier mogelijk wat tijd en/of geld in wil investeren. Ook is er in Nederland wel wat mogelijk op subsidie-gebied, maar dan moet er natuurlijk eerst een goed plan liggen. Ik denk dat de blinde eind-gebruikers snel genoeg zullen volgen als er iets bruikbaars is. Het bijdragen aan bestaande software, of schrijven van nieuwe software, kan ik zelf wel doen voor zover ik tijd heb. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Huidige status van NL kaarten
2010/2/1 Sybren A. Stüvel syb...@stuvel.eu: Dit gaat zeker beter. Er zijn een aantal standaarden vastgelegd per land. In Nederland staat hier bijvoorbeeld in dat voetgangers (en volgens mij ook fietsers) eenrichtingsverkeer negeren. Ook voet- en fietspaden die niet naast een (auto)weg liggen staan in OSM. Daar moet wel bij aangetekend worden dat dit sterk variabel is. Als er in een gebied of stad een enthousiaste mapper is die zich met dit soort dingen bezighoudt, dan kan de informatie over voetpaden zeer uitgebreid zijn. Is er niemand, dan kan het ook maar zo dat er geen enkel voetpad op de kaart staan. -- André Engels, andreeng...@gmail.com ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Huidige status van NL kaarten
On 1-2-2010 13:36, Andre Engels wrote: 2010/2/1 Sybren A. Stüvelsyb...@stuvel.eu: Dit gaat zeker beter. Er zijn een aantal standaarden vastgelegd per land. In Nederland staat hier bijvoorbeeld in dat voetgangers (en volgens mij ook fietsers) eenrichtingsverkeer negeren. Ook voet- en fietspaden die niet naast een (auto)weg liggen staan in OSM. Daar moet wel bij aangetekend worden dat dit sterk variabel is. Als er in een gebied of stad een enthousiaste mapper is die zich met dit soort dingen bezighoudt, dan kan de informatie over voetpaden zeer uitgebreid zijn. Is er niemand, dan kan het ook maar zo dat er geen enkel voetpad op de kaart staan. Natuurlijk, maar dan is de situatie niet slechter dan met commerciële kaarten, er vanuitgaande dat het gewone wegennet dan wel redelijk in kaart gebracht is. Bram ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Huidige status van NL kaarten
In your letter dated Mon, 01 Feb 2010 12:54:14 +0100 you wrote: Inderdaad, dat was ook precies mijn idee. De mogelijkheden om alles vast te leggen zijn er al, nu het vastleggen nog... Voorbeeldje: het zou fantastisch zijn om op een station de volgorde van de sporen te weten en voor blinden die met een stok lopen is de info over aanwezigheid van geleidelijnen interessant. Die kennis is er natuurlijk wel bij een deel van de doelgroep, zo kom ik zelf vaak op stations als Arnhem en Utrecht en ken ik daar prima de weg. Misschien is het handig om goed te documenteren wat en hoe er allemaal gemapt moet worden. En ook hoe bijv. route planners zouden moeten werken. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Huidige status van NL kaarten
Bram Duvigneau schreef: On 1-2-2010 11:20, Lambertus wrote: Volgens mij is OpenStreetMap in principe een natuurlijke bondgenoot voor mensen met een (visuele) handicap. Vrijwel alles is opensource en naar wens aan te passen. Inderdaad, dat was ook precies mijn idee. De mogelijkheden om alles vast te leggen zijn er al, nu het vastleggen nog... Voorbeeldje: het zou fantastisch zijn om op een station de volgorde van de sporen te weten en voor blinden die met een stok lopen is de info over aanwezigheid van geleidelijnen interessant. Die kennis is er natuurlijk wel bij een deel van de doelgroep, zo kom ik zelf vaak op stations als Arnhem en Utrecht en ken ik daar prima de weg. Brengt mij op de volgende vraag: Hoe ga ik deze zaken (zoals geleidelijnen) mappen als mijn gpsje het (in de beschutting van de stationshal) laat afweten? De geodriehoek er bij pakken? OK. Grapje. Serieus: hoe pak ik zoiets aan? [...] Ook zijn er al een paar projecten binnen OSM dat zich met dit onderwerp bezig houden. Een paar links: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Direction_tool_for_Visually_Impaired http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_for_the_blind Die had ik al gezien ja. De tweede link beschrijft veel interessante map features, maar tot dat er echt een bruikbaar navigatieproduct is, is de motivatie voor blinden om te gaan mappen waarschijnlijk ook niet zo hoog. Heb de source van de eerste link uitgecheckt en zal het eens bekijken. Voor mobile applicaties schijnt LoadStone interssant te zijn: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Loadstone Inderdaad, al is het nadeel dat deze tool vooral handig is om van POI naar POI te navigeren. Een OSM import is tegenwoordig mogelijk, maar dat geeft nog niet echt een volledige kaart maar slechts een verzameling punten waarlangs een route kan worden gemaakt. Nadeel is dus ook dat relevante punten door de user in Loadstone moeten worden gezet voor het gebruikt kan worden. Kortom, OSM kan van dienst zijn maar uiteindelijk draait het natuurlijk om de hoeveelheid mankracht dat ingezet wordt voor specialistische toepassingen. Als er meerdere (blinde) mensen zijn die zich voor een bepaald doel inzetten is gebleken dat er snel grote vooruitgang behaald worden. Klopt. Ik ben in overleg met een opensource-minded hulpmiddelen leverancier in Nederland die hier mogelijk wat tijd en/of geld in wil investeren. Ook is er in Nederland wel wat mogelijk op subsidie-gebied, maar dan moet er natuurlijk eerst een goed plan liggen. Ik denk dat de blinde eind-gebruikers snel genoeg zullen volgen als er iets bruikbaars is. Het bijdragen aan bestaande software, of schrijven van nieuwe software, kan ik zelf wel doen voor zover ik tijd heb. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Huidige status van NL kaarten
Misschien is het handig om goed te documenteren wat en hoe er allemaal gemapt moet worden. En ook hoe bijv. route planners zouden moeten werken. Ik haak er hier even in. Bram, ik vindt dat je een heel mooi punt hebt hier. Wat Philip hier al opmerkt, het documenteren van de functionele en data wensen/eisen is de basis hier. Hieruit kun je verder gaan, zoals je zelf al aangeeft om bijvoorbeeld data of andere middelen te krijgen uit leveranciers/overheid. Mocht je dit verder uit willen werken dan wil ik hier ook mijn steentje wel aan bijdragen door te kijken wat er allemaal mogelijk is bij de overheid e.d. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Huidige status van NL kaarten
Op 1 februari 2010 23:34 heeft YRS jav...@hccnet.nl het volgende geschreven: Bram Duvigneau schreef: On 1-2-2010 11:20, Lambertus wrote: Volgens mij is OpenStreetMap in principe een natuurlijke bondgenoot voor mensen met een (visuele) handicap. Vrijwel alles is opensource en naar wens aan te passen. Inderdaad, dat was ook precies mijn idee. De mogelijkheden om alles vast te leggen zijn er al, nu het vastleggen nog... Voorbeeldje: het zou fantastisch zijn om op een station de volgorde van de sporen te weten en voor blinden die met een stok lopen is de info over aanwezigheid van geleidelijnen interessant. Die kennis is er natuurlijk wel bij een deel van de doelgroep, zo kom ik zelf vaak op stations als Arnhem en Utrecht en ken ik daar prima de weg. Brengt mij op de volgende vraag: Hoe ga ik deze zaken (zoals geleidelijnen) mappen als mijn gpsje het (in de beschutting van de stationshal) laat afweten? De geodriehoek er bij pakken? OK. Grapje. Serieus: hoe pak ik zoiets aan? Je kunt je afvragen of het nut heeft om 't te mappen als je het al niet kunt tracken, dan kan een gebruiker het ook niet gebruiken bij gebrek aan gps signalen.. geleidelijnen is een zowiezo een vorm van micromapping wat met met de huidige gps resolutie niet lekker lukt.. (lijkt mij) ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Huidige status van NL kaarten
2010/2/1 YRS jav...@hccnet.nl: Brengt mij op de volgende vraag: Hoe ga ik deze zaken (zoals geleidelijnen) mappen als mijn gpsje het (in de beschutting van de stationshal) laat afweten? De geodriehoek er bij pakken? OK. Grapje. Serieus: hoe pak ik zoiets aan? Gewoon, kijken waar het is, en het daar op de kaart zetten. Zeker, dat zal niet precies zijn, maar dat is een gps ook niet. Ik heb maanden gemapt vóór ik een gsm kocht, en ik ga nu ook rustig door hoewel het ding kapot is. -- André Engels, andreeng...@gmail.com ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[talk-au] Most of Busselton deleted
Can someone suggest how to deal with this kind of vandalism: Most of Busselton appears to have been deleted by user MAA on 31/1/2010. See following links: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-33.6573lon=115.3547zoom=12layers=B000FTFT http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/MAA/edits http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3756449 Is there an easy way to revert this kind of changeset? Arie ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Most of Busselton deleted
I've forwarded a copy of your email to the main talk list, some people have scripts to be able to easily revert changes but I don't have anything set up at present. On 2 February 2010 15:45, Arie Paap wildmy...@gmail.com wrote: Can someone suggest how to deal with this kind of vandalism: Most of Busselton appears to have been deleted by user MAA on 31/1/2010. See following links: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-33.6573lon=115.3547zoom=12layers=B000FTFT http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/MAA/edits http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/3756449 Is there an easy way to revert this kind of changeset? Arie ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[Talk-br] Pardais
Alguém já mapeou pardais? -- Flávio Bello Fialho ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Pardais
Em Seg, 2010-02-01 às 18:00 -0200, Flavio Bello Fialho escreveu: Alguém já mapeou pardais? Tenho colocado os radares fixos como pontos da via com a tag highway=speed_camera http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dspeed_camera Abraço, -- Samuel Vale srcv...@minaslivre.org signature.asc Description: Esta é uma parte de mensagem assinada digitalmente ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-de] Autoschalter
Am 01.02.2010 08:28, schrieb Michael Kugelmann: Hallo, ich finde nirgends eine Beschreibung für einen Autoschalter. Meine Lösung: drive-in_counter == yes Leo.org liefert für Autoschalter im Englischen drive-in counter. Die Lösung ist m.E: so allgemein sein, dass man sie überall als Tag dazu packen kann. Kommentare dazu? Hallo, die Idee finde ich gut. Mir fallen spontan noch viele Beispiele ein, wo es Autoschalter gibt. Man sollte dabei auch mal wieder den Blick über den (deutschen) Tellerrand wagen. In anderen Ländern (z.B. westlich des Atlantiks und südlich von Kanada) sind Autoschalter ja sehr weit verbreitet. Dem Tag stehe ich aber kritisch gegenüber. Der Begriff Drive-in wird im deutschen fälschlicheweise oft statt drive-through verwendet. Dabei gibt es zwischen drive-in und drive-through eine klare Abgrenzung: * Ein drive-in ist Kino/Restaurant/etc. wo man reinfährt, parkt und dann vom Personal im Auto bedient wird [1] * Ein drive-through ist ein Schalter an dem man kurz anhält, seine Bestellung aufgibt, seine Ware erhält und dann sofort weiter fährt. [2] Selbst in der englischen Wikipedia wird darauf hingewiesen, dass der Begriff drive-in im deutschen fälschlicherweise auch an Stelle von drive-through verwendet wird [3]: In the German-speaking world, the term is now often used instead of drive-through for that kind of service. Die Thematik wird auch in der deutschen Wikipedia erklärt [4]. Grüße Max [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive-in [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive-through [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive-in [4] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drive-in ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Autoschalter
Am Montag 01 Februar 2010 08:28:42 schrieb Michael Kugelmann: Meine Lösung: drive-in_counter == yes Finde ich jetzt intuitiv viel zu kompliziert. Ich würde davon ausgehen, dass es auch einen kürzeren, prägnanteren Begriff gibt, den die natives für den Zweck wählen würden. Spontan würde ich den counter einfach weglassen und drive-in=yes setzen. Aber ich bin auch kein navie english speaker. :) Gruß, Bernd -- Von einer gewissen Summe an sagt man zum Geld Kapital signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Autoschalter
Am 01.02.2010 08:28, schrieb Michael Kugelmann: Meine Lösung: drive-in_counter == yes Willkommen in Pseudoanglesien! Wenn englisch, dann bitte einen Begriff der bei Muttersprachlern kein Stirnrunzeln hervorruft. drive thru bitte! -jha- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Vektorkarten auf Windows-CE/Mobile?
Am 01.02.2010 08:56, schrieb Stefan Dettenhofer (StefanDausR): NaviPOWM http://sourceforge.net/projects/navipowm/ stellt nur Vektordaten dar. Die OSM-Daten müssen in das eigene MAP-Format gewandelt werden (1°x1° pro Datei). GermanyPlus wird sogar täglich neu berechnet. Danke. Habe ich mir angeschaut. Aber ich finde leider nirgends eine Bedienungsanleitung dazu. Ich habe es nach einiger Zeit aufgegeben, die Zoom-Funktion zu suchen. Zum Kartendownload: Da finde ich überall nur Verzeichnisse mit mehreren Dutzend 7z-Dateien. Die einzeln herunterzuladen finde ich extrem beschwerlich. Gibt's das auch ohne WGET-tricks? -jha- ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Autoschalter
Hallo, Johann H. Addicks wrote: Willkommen in Pseudoanglesien! handy=yes Bye Frederik ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OpenLinkMap umgezogen
Alexander Matheisen schrieb: Am Freitag 29 Januar 2010 19:36:34 schrieb Martin Czarkowski: Hi, gefällt mir gut, allerdings sind die Marker jetzt genau über dem Gebäudesymbol, dh. man sieht jetzt die Restaurant- bzw. Bankensymbole usw. nicht mehr. Wahrscheinlich werden dieselben Koordinaten verwendet wie für die Symbole. Vielleicht kann man die Marker um eine Idee verschieben? Gefällt mir persönlich nicht sio gut, denn dann sind die Marker wieder verschoben. Zumindest kann man jetzt schon immer die Namen lesen. Vielleicht löse ich das anders, dass zum Beispiel das Icon eines Markers ausgeblendet wird, wenn man mit der Maus drüberfährt. Martin Alex Wie wäre es, wenn die derzeitigen Marker (Sterne und Weltkugeln) durch Symbole ersetzt werden, die den jeweiligen Objekten entsprechen? Die Unterscheidung Stern/Kugel halte ich für unwichtig. Ich weiß jetzt auch nicht, was angezeigt wird, wenn Website UND Wikipedia-Artikel vorhanden sind. Ich würde mir das so vorstellen, dass die Marker den Symbolen, die in der normalen Mapnik oder Osmarender Karte entsprechen und vllt nen markierten Rand bekommen, wenn eine Website vorhanden ist oder größer werden, wenn man mit der Maus drüberfährt. Das hätte den vorteil, dass diese Punktwolken verschwinden und die Übersichtlichkeit der Karte auch bei vielen Websites nicht drunter leidet. Leider habe ich von den Programmiermöglichkeiten keine Ahnung und vermute, dass diese Symbole dann auf jedem Kartenhintergrund anders aussehen müssten... Vielleicht hilft das ja trotzdem weiter. Liebe Grüße Christian ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Vektorkarten auf Windows-CE/Mobile?
Johann H. Addicks schrieb: Am 01.02.2010 08:56, schrieb Stefan Dettenhofer (StefanDausR): NaviPOWM http://sourceforge.net/projects/navipowm/ stellt nur Vektordaten dar. Die OSM-Daten müssen in das eigene MAP-Format gewandelt werden (1°x1° pro Datei). GermanyPlus wird sogar täglich neu berechnet. Danke. Habe ich mir angeschaut. Aber ich finde leider nirgends eine Bedienungsanleitung dazu. Ich habe es nach einiger Zeit aufgegeben, die Zoom-Funktion zu suchen. hier z.B.: http://forum.pocketnavigation.de/forum1000188-medion-gopal-pna-v3/1143624-integration-von-navipowm-in-gopal/ ist eine gute Zusammenstellung! Zum Kartendownload: Da finde ich überall nur Verzeichnisse mit mehreren Dutzend 7z-Dateien. Die einzeln herunterzuladen finde ich extrem beschwerlich. Gibt's das auch ohne WGET-tricks? Ja, schau mal hier: http://forum.pocketnavigation.de/forum1000212-openstreetmap/1147854-automatik-osm-downloader/ Du musst Dir den gewünschten Bereich nur einmal einrichten. Wenn Du noch Fragen hast, melde dich! Gruß, Stefan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Autoschalter
On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 10:46:49AM +0100, Johann H. Addicks wrote: drive thru bitte! British oder American English? Ich haette gerne colour und through ... Sind ja nicht beim Hip Hop Battle ... Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de Es ist ein grobes Missverständnis und eine Fehlwahrnehmung, dem Staat im Internet Zensur- und Überwachungsabsichten zu unterstellen. - - Bundesminister Dr. Wolfgang Schäuble -- 10. Juli in Berlin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Sternchen / Re: OpenLinkMap
Am Samstag, 16. Januar 2010 schrieb Alexander Matheisen: manche von euch kennen die OpenLinkMap vielleicht schon Hallo Alexander, danke für dieses vielversprechende Projekt, das ich bisher noch nicht kannte. Verstehe ich es richtig, dass die Weltkugeln Wikipedia-Links kennzeichnen und die Sterne URLs, die OSM getaggt wurden? Ich habe gestern (Sonntag!) versuchshalber 2-3 POIs mit einem url-Tag versehen - kann sie aber heute nicht auf der Karte als Sternchen finden. Sollte ich vielleicht doch das website-Tag nehmen, oder sind (außer einem name-Tag) weitere Voraussetzungen erforderlich, damit der Stern leuchtet? Danke Gruß Ralf ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] [Fwd: MDR-Beitrag Lücken bei GPS und Auto-Navis]
Hallo liebe Mitstreiter, ich habe diesmal eine Anfrage von Herrn Erbe, der für den MDR recherchiert. Das Thema (s.u.) war ja schon öfter in Diskussion auf der ML. Bitte helft dem Mann - hier können wir ja ein bisschen glänzen. Grüße Christian (OSM Presse) Original-Nachricht Betreff:MDR-Beitrag Lücken bei GPS und Auto-Navis Datum: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 10:58:42 +0100 Von:blauwerk media (Rechercheredaktion) h.e...@blauwerk-media.de An: o...@postkammer.de Sehr geehrter Herr Hartnick, wie wir eben besprochen haben recherchiere ich gerade für einen MDR-Fernsehbeitrag über Probleme bei der GPS-Navigation und dem Kartenmaterial von Auto-Navis. Dafür suche ich die Punkte im Kartenmaterial, welche den Autofahrer auf einen falschen Weg schicken oder im Navigationsgerät Straßen, Plätze, Landmarken etc. nicht oder falsch angezeigt werden, kurz gesagt: alle Orte, wo sich Realität und Navigationsanzeige widersprechen und es dann zu groben Fehlnavigationen oder sogar gefährlichen Situationen für Autofahrer kommen kann. Von besonderem Interesse sind dabei für mich solche Stellen in Thüringen/Sachsen/Sachsen-Anhalt (MDR-Sendegebiet) und hier vor allem Thüringen. Ich würde mich freuen, wenn mir die Open-Streetmaps-Community und Sie in den nächsten Tagen einige Informationen zur Verfügung stellen könnte und möchte mich schon jetzt dafür bedanken. Mit freundlichen Grüßen *Hartmut Erbe * *(Rechercheredaktion)*** * * *__* * * *signatur* * * * * * * *blauwerk* media werbe-, film- und fernsehproduktion Inhaber Dirk Ebert Regierungsstraße 57 99084 Erfurt Tel.: 0361.60 11 870 Fax: 0361.60 11 871 *blauwerk* media-sieh mal an! unter www.blauwerk-media.de http://www.blauwerk-media.de/ ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Vektorkarten auf Windows-CE/Mobile?
Hi, vielleicht interessiert dich ja das Programm Gosmore http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Gosmore Hat auch nen Routing integriert. Allerdings ist die Benutzerfreundlichkeit nicht gerade hoch angesiedelt. Und ich glaub da ist auch schon ne Weile nix mehr passiert. Bin ich mir aber nicht sicher. -- schönen Gruß Alex ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OpenLinkMap umgezogen
Am 30.01.2010 12:07, schrieb Alexander Matheisen: Am Samstag 30 Januar 2010 10:27:34 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: Hi ! kann mir einer sage warum die Wiki vom Holstentor nicht angezeigt wird ? http://olm.openstreetmap.de/?zoom=17lat=53.86616lon=10.67981layers=B0TTT Hab da wohl etwas von Mitja falsch verstanden. Die Daten für Europa werden nur wöchentlich von Sonntag auf Montag aktualisiert. Werde das mal schnell auf der Seite verbessern. Noch ein bisschen Abwarten bis Montag, und dann kommen die Sternchen und Weltkugeln von ganz alleine... ;-) Gruß Jan :-) Alex hi ! haben jetzt Montag mittag - aber kein Symbol. hier nochmal der Link zum Objekt http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/27075168 gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Sternchen / Re: OpenLinkMap
Am Montag 01 Februar 2010 13:46:00 schrieb RalfGesellensetter: Am Samstag, 16. Januar 2010 schrieb Alexander Matheisen: manche von euch kennen die OpenLinkMap vielleicht schon Hallo Alexander, danke für dieses vielversprechende Projekt, das ich bisher noch nicht kannte. Verstehe ich es richtig, dass die Weltkugeln Wikipedia-Links kennzeichnen und die Sterne URLs, die OSM getaggt wurden? Korrekt. Wenn beides vorhanden ist, dann wird eine Weltkugel angezeigt, da der Wikipedia-Link höherwertiger ist. Ich habe gestern (Sonntag!) versuchshalber 2-3 POIs mit einem url-Tag versehen - kann sie aber heute nicht auf der Karte als Sternchen finden. Die Aktualisierung läuft in der Nacht von Sonntag auf Montag, aber kann noch bis in den späten Nachmittag des Montags laufen. Aber spätestens am Di. sollte alles abgeschlossen sein. Sollte ich vielleicht doch das website-Tag nehmen, oder sind (außer einem name-Tag) weitere Voraussetzungen erforderlich, damit der Stern leuchtet? Damit der Stern erscheint braucht man nur einen (Wikipedia)-Link angeben. Ob das website oder url ist, spielt keine Rolle, die werden beide berücksichtigt. Ein Name ist auch nicht zwingend erforderlich, das hatte ich nur bei meiner alten Karte so eingerichtet. Danke Gruß Ralf Alex ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OpenLinkMap umgezogen
Am Montag 01 Februar 2010 14:31:27 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: Am 30.01.2010 12:07, schrieb Alexander Matheisen: Am Samstag 30 Januar 2010 10:27:34 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: Hi ! kann mir einer sage warum die Wiki vom Holstentor nicht angezeigt wird ? http://olm.openstreetmap.de/?zoom=17lat=53.86616lon=10.67981layers=B0 TTT Hab da wohl etwas von Mitja falsch verstanden. Die Daten für Europa werden nur wöchentlich von Sonntag auf Montag aktualisiert. Werde das mal schnell auf der Seite verbessern. Noch ein bisschen Abwarten bis Montag, und dann kommen die Sternchen und Weltkugeln von ganz alleine... ;-) Gruß Jan :-) Alex hi ! haben jetzt Montag mittag - aber kein Symbol. Hat mich auch schon gewundert und habe daraufhin Mitja angeschrieben. Laut ihm wurde der Updatevorgang zwar schon in der Nacht gestartet, aber läuft noch bis in den späten Nachmittag des Montags hinein. Spätestens morgen sollte also alles drin sein und der Vorgang abgeschlossen sein. ;-) hier nochmal der Link zum Objekt http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/27075168 gruß Jan :-) Alex ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Vektorkarten auf Windows-CE/Mobile?
Am 1. Februar 2010 02:06 schrieb Johann H. Addicks addi...@gmx.net: Hallo, Welches der vielen Programme zur Darstellung von Offline-OSM-Karten beherrscht Vektordarstellung? Du kannst dir mal die Übersicht unter http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Software/Mobilephones anschauen (falls noch nicht getan). Die zweite Tabelle enthält auch den Punkt Shows OSM as Vektor und Stores Map-Data On-board. ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Software/Mobilephones#Map_display_features ) Viel Auswahl neben Glopus bleibt aber nicht übrig, wenn man sich auf WM beschränken muss. Unter JRME ist die Auswahl schon größer. (siehe auch: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Software/Mobilephones#JavaME_Midlets_on_Windows_Mobile ) Hab auch leider von der WindowsMobile-Software wenig Ahnung. Dafür habe oder hatte ich schon fast alle Software für Java auf dem Handy. Hierbei sind GPSMid (Vektormap) und Trekbuddy (Rastermap) meine Favoriten. Würde mich freuen, wenn ihr fehlende Software ergänzen könntet. Ich weiss die Tabellen unter http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Software/Mobilephones sind recht unübersichtlich, aber ich hatte nicht vermutet, dass sich in kurzer Zeit so viele Programme finden würden, als ich die Tabellen damals angelegt hatte. Überlege momentan, wie ich das übersichtlicher gestalten kann, aber was wirklich Schlaues fällt mir nicht ein, das im Wiki funktioniert. Werde mir die Tabellen wohl mal ins Excel ziehen, wenn die Wiki mal wieder auf read-only ist und ein wenig aufräumen. Gruß Torsten ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Autoschalter
Bernd Wurst schrieb: Am Montag 01 Februar 2010 08:28:42 schrieb Michael Kugelmann: Meine Lösung: drive-in_counter == yes Finde ich jetzt intuitiv viel zu kompliziert. Ich würde davon ausgehen, dass es auch einen kürzeren, prägnanteren Begriff gibt, den die natives für den Zweck wählen würden. Spontan würde ich den counter einfach weglassen und drive-in=yes setzen. Aber ich bin auch kein navie english speaker. :) Wie wäre es, statt mit =yes zu handieren, Folgendes zu verwenden: drive-through=counter drive-through=[andere mögliche Werte, die mir Landei nicht einfallen ;)] Gruß malenki ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OpenLinkMap umgezogen
Am Montag 01 Februar 2010 11:23:21 schrieb C. Brause: Alexander Matheisen schrieb: Am Freitag 29 Januar 2010 19:36:34 schrieb Martin Czarkowski: Hi, gefällt mir gut, allerdings sind die Marker jetzt genau über dem Gebäudesymbol, dh. man sieht jetzt die Restaurant- bzw. Bankensymbole usw. nicht mehr. Wahrscheinlich werden dieselben Koordinaten verwendet wie für die Symbole. Vielleicht kann man die Marker um eine Idee verschieben? Gefällt mir persönlich nicht sio gut, denn dann sind die Marker wieder verschoben. Zumindest kann man jetzt schon immer die Namen lesen. Vielleicht löse ich das anders, dass zum Beispiel das Icon eines Markers ausgeblendet wird, wenn man mit der Maus drüberfährt. Martin Alex Wie wäre es, wenn die derzeitigen Marker (Sterne und Weltkugeln) durch Symbole ersetzt werden, die den jeweiligen Objekten entsprechen? Die Unterscheidung Stern/Kugel halte ich für unwichtig. Ich weiß jetzt auch nicht, was angezeigt wird, wenn Website UND Wikipedia-Artikel vorhanden sind. Dann würde man nicht mehr so gut erkennen können, dass da ein Link ist. Wenn Website und Wikipedia-Link vorhanden sind, wird eine Weltkugel angezeigt, da der Wikipedialink höherwertig ist. Ich würde mir das so vorstellen, dass die Marker den Symbolen, die in der normalen Mapnik oder Osmarender Karte entsprechen und vllt nen markierten Rand bekommen, wenn eine Website vorhanden ist oder größer werden, wenn man mit der Maus drüberfährt. Das hätte den vorteil, dass diese Punktwolken verschwinden und die Übersichtlichkeit der Karte auch bei vielen Websites nicht drunter leidet. Wenn man die gleichen Symbole wie in der Karte verwenden würde, könnte man die Marker nur noch schwer von den Kartenicons unterscheiden und hätte Probleme, im Drüberblicken die beiden Typen (mit/ohne Link) auseinanderzuhalten. Leider habe ich von den Programmiermöglichkeiten keine Ahnung und vermute, dass diese Symbole dann auf jedem Kartenhintergrund anders aussehen müssten... Vielleicht hilft das ja trotzdem weiter. Liebe Grüße Christian Alex ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Autoschalter
Am Montag 01 Februar 2010 14:59:29 schrieb malenki: drive-through=counter drive-through=[andere mögliche Werte, die mir Landei nicht einfallen ;)] Mir fallen zwar auch keine anderen ein, aber wenn es welche gäbe und es gäbe sie am selben Objekt, dann muss man schon wieder einen Semikolon-Krampf machen um mehrere Eigenschaften an dem Objekt unter zu bringen. Gruß, Bernd -- Gegen das zunehmende Wissen der Menschheit wäre nichts einzuwenden, wenn sie dadurch gescheiter würden. - Ernst R. Hauschka (dt. Aphoristiker 1926) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Autoschalter
Bernd Wurst schrieb: Am Montag 01 Februar 2010 14:59:29 schrieb malenki: drive-through=counter drive-through=[andere mögliche Werte, die mir Landei nicht einfallen ;)] Mir fallen zwar auch keine anderen ein, aber wenn es welche gäbe und es gäbe sie am selben Objekt, dann muss man schon wieder einen Semikolon-Krampf machen um mehrere Eigenschaften an dem Objekt unter zu bringen. Ich meinte nicht, dass man mehrere Eigenschaften zugleich hineinschreiben soll. Das war als ODER gedacht. Ansonsten könnte man mit der gleichen Argumentation alle highway=* tags bis auf einen einstampfen :) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Autoschalter
Am Montag 01 Februar 2010 15:22:50 schrieb malenki: Ich meinte nicht, dass man mehrere Eigenschaften zugleich hineinschreiben soll. Das war als ODER gedacht. Ansonsten könnte man mit der gleichen Argumentation alle highway=* tags bis auf einen einstampfen :) Eine Straße ist selten in sich von unterschiedlicher Bedeutung. Aber ich könnte mir einen Dienstleister vorstellen, der sowohl einen Auto- Schalter als auch einen Auto-Automaten oder whatever-Drive-through-Feature hat. Gruß, Bernd -- Alle vier Sekunden bekommt eine Frau ein Baby. Das Problem liegt also zunächst einmal darin, diese Frau ausfindig zu machen und zu stoppen. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OpenLinkMap umgezogen
Vermutlich gibt es auch vorher noch zwei Fragen: 1. Was soll die OLM anzeigen?/Welche Funktion hat sie? (Standardfrage) 2. Was passiert, wenn die Links sich so häufen, dass sie sich gegenseitig überlagern und es unübersichtlich wird? Ich persönlich halte die OLM für eine Karte, die Funktionen hat, die in jede normale Karte im Netz gehört. Somit könnte man sie eigentlich, leicht überarbeitet, als Hauptkarte bei OSM übernehmen. (persönliche Meinung) Die Links dürften dann aber nur Zusatz und nicht Hauptfunktion sein. Werden die Links zu unübersichtlichen Haufen, müssen sie sortiert oder Abgestuft werden. Lösungen, dass sich beim Anklicken sternförmig weitere Popups öffnen mag ich persönlich nicht. Und die Links nach Wichtigkeit zu sortieren um manche erst bei hohen Zoomstufen einzublenden, halte ich nichts von. Aus welchem Grund besucht man die OLM? Noch um zu gucken ob es georeferenzierte Websites irgendwo gibt. Irgendwann, so stell ich mir das im Moment vor, besuche ich die Seite um zu gucken, ob ich nicht eben was über die eine oder andere Sehenswürdigkeit gibt, indem ich auf der Karte rumklicke. Einfach um mehr zu erfahren. Das geht doch am besten, wenn man mit der Maus über die Karte fährt und auf Objekte klicke, die mich interessieren. Dazu möchte ich diese auch sehen. Und alle anderen Links versperren doch quasi den Blick auf die restliche Karte, oder? Ich hab grad das Gefühl, ich klinge irgendwie böse. Das solls aber garnicht. Ich find das Projekt echt toll und möchte es durch konstruktive Kritik unterstützen! Liebe Grüße Christian Alexander Matheisen schrieb: Am Montag 01 Februar 2010 11:23:21 schrieb C. Brause: Alexander Matheisen schrieb: Am Freitag 29 Januar 2010 19:36:34 schrieb Martin Czarkowski: Hi, gefällt mir gut, allerdings sind die Marker jetzt genau über dem Gebäudesymbol, dh. man sieht jetzt die Restaurant- bzw. Bankensymbole usw. nicht mehr. Wahrscheinlich werden dieselben Koordinaten verwendet wie für die Symbole. Vielleicht kann man die Marker um eine Idee verschieben? Gefällt mir persönlich nicht sio gut, denn dann sind die Marker wieder verschoben. Zumindest kann man jetzt schon immer die Namen lesen. Vielleicht löse ich das anders, dass zum Beispiel das Icon eines Markers ausgeblendet wird, wenn man mit der Maus drüberfährt. Martin Alex Wie wäre es, wenn die derzeitigen Marker (Sterne und Weltkugeln) durch Symbole ersetzt werden, die den jeweiligen Objekten entsprechen? Die Unterscheidung Stern/Kugel halte ich für unwichtig. Ich weiß jetzt auch nicht, was angezeigt wird, wenn Website UND Wikipedia-Artikel vorhanden sind. Dann würde man nicht mehr so gut erkennen können, dass da ein Link ist. Wenn Website und Wikipedia-Link vorhanden sind, wird eine Weltkugel angezeigt, da der Wikipedialink höherwertig ist. Ich würde mir das so vorstellen, dass die Marker den Symbolen, die in der normalen Mapnik oder Osmarender Karte entsprechen und vllt nen markierten Rand bekommen, wenn eine Website vorhanden ist oder größer werden, wenn man mit der Maus drüberfährt. Das hätte den vorteil, dass diese Punktwolken verschwinden und die Übersichtlichkeit der Karte auch bei vielen Websites nicht drunter leidet. Wenn man die gleichen Symbole wie in der Karte verwenden würde, könnte man die Marker nur noch schwer von den Kartenicons unterscheiden und hätte Probleme, im Drüberblicken die beiden Typen (mit/ohne Link) auseinanderzuhalten. Leider habe ich von den Programmiermöglichkeiten keine Ahnung und vermute, dass diese Symbole dann auf jedem Kartenhintergrund anders aussehen müssten... Vielleicht hilft das ja trotzdem weiter. Liebe Grüße Christian Alex ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] OpenLinkMap umgezogen
Am 01.02.2010 14:41, schrieb Alexander Matheisen: Am Montag 01 Februar 2010 14:31:27 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: Am 30.01.2010 12:07, schrieb Alexander Matheisen: Am Samstag 30 Januar 2010 10:27:34 schrieb Jan Tappenbeck: Hi ! kann mir einer sage warum die Wiki vom Holstentor nicht angezeigt wird ? http://olm.openstreetmap.de/?zoom=17lat=53.86616lon=10.67981layers=B0 TTT Hab da wohl etwas von Mitja falsch verstanden. Die Daten für Europa werden nur wöchentlich von Sonntag auf Montag aktualisiert. Werde das mal schnell auf der Seite verbessern. Noch ein bisschen Abwarten bis Montag, und dann kommen die Sternchen und Weltkugeln von ganz alleine... ;-) Gruß Jan :-) Alex hi ! haben jetzt Montag mittag - aber kein Symbol. Hat mich auch schon gewundert und habe daraufhin Mitja angeschrieben. Laut ihm wurde der Updatevorgang zwar schon in der Nacht gestartet, aber läuft noch bis in den späten Nachmittag des Montags hinein. Spätestens morgen sollte also alles drin sein und der Vorgang abgeschlossen sein. ;-) hier nochmal der Link zum Objekt http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/27075168 gruß Jan :-) Alex bhhh - was wird da denn alles geschaufelt mit einem tägl. updaten ist dann wohl nicht zu rechnen ! gruß Jan :-) ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Autoschalter
Am 1. Februar 2010 11:55 schrieb Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de: British oder American English? Ich haette gerne colour und through ... Sind ja nicht beim Hip Hop Battle ... +1. countre für den Schaltre gibt's wohl allerdings nicht. ;-) Gruß Martin ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Autoschalter
Am 01.02.2010 15:29, schrieb Bernd Wurst: Am Montag 01 Februar 2010 15:22:50 schrieb malenki: Ich meinte nicht, dass man mehrere Eigenschaften zugleich hineinschreiben soll. Das war als ODER gedacht. Ansonsten könnte man mit der gleichen Argumentation alle highway=* tags bis auf einen einstampfen :) Eine Straße ist selten in sich von unterschiedlicher Bedeutung. Aber ich könnte mir einen Dienstleister vorstellen, der sowohl einen Auto- Schalter als auch einen Auto-Automaten oder whatever-Drive-through-Feature hat. Gruß, Bernd Naja, ob es da soviel unterscheidliches gibt, ich weiß ja nicht so recht. Ich denke mit drive-through=yes erschlagen wir alles. Ob es sich dabei um einen Geldautomaten oder eine Mc-Doof Drive-In handelt wird aus dem Kontext klar. Wenn ein Geldautomat zusätzlich mit drive-through=yes getaggt ist, dürftenklar sein, das es sich um einen Automaten handelt und wenn ich McDoof mit drive-through=yes getaggt ist, dürfte klar sein, dass es sich um ein Fensterchen handelt hinter dem eine mehr- minderfreundlichen Bedienung sitzt. Grüße Max ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] OpenLinkMap umgezogen
Jan Tappenbeck schrieb: bhhh - was wird da denn alles geschaufelt Alle Änderungen der OSM-Datenbank in ganz Europa von einer ganzen Woche werden mit osmosis geladen. Die Datenbank ist auch für andere Projekte gedacht. Am Ende die Spezialtabelle für Links zu generieren dauert nicht lange, aber die allgemeine Aktualisierung davor dauert fast 12 Stunden. mit einem tägl. updaten ist dann wohl nicht zu rechnen ! Ursprünglich wurde die Datenbank für Deutschland täglich aktualisiert, aber ich möchte den devserver nicht unnötig belasten. Bisher wird die Datenbank nur von sehr wenigen Projekten genutzt, da halte ich häufige Aktualisierung für übertrieben. Mal abwarten was sich auf der FOSSGIS Konferenz ergibt. Gruß, Mitja ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Autoschalter
Max Andre schrieb: Naja, ob es da soviel unterscheidliches gibt, ich weiß ja nicht so recht. Ich denke mit drive-through=yes erschlagen wir alles. Ob es sich dabei um einen Geldautomaten oder eine Mc-Doof Drive-In handelt wird aus dem Kontext klar. ...stimmt auch wieder ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Logger gesucht
er will aber einen _langen_ urlaub loggen aber von denen gibts auch SD-karten logger zb http://www.transystem.com.tw/products/index_detail.php?mcat_no=2cat_no=33pno=56ver=en logger uebersicht http://www.transystem.com.tw/products/index_list.php?mcat_no=2cat_no=33ver=en Stephan Knauss wrote: Sebastian Niehaus wrote: für den Urlaub wäre ein Logger eine nette Sache, Mag mir jemand Empfehlungen geben? ich bin mit meinem i-blue 747 sehr zufrieden. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GPS_Reviews#Transystem_i-Blue_747 Den Nachfolger gibt's für 55 EUR. Schau mal bei ebay nach i-Blue 747A+ Ist ein Logger+bluetoth GPS-Maus, falls du das mit Handy/Laptop koppeln willst. Standalone nur logger. Hat kein Display. Dafür eben extrem klein und leicht. Speicher ist fest eingebaut, reicht für etwa 120.000 Punkte. Lässt sich mit vielen Open-Source Tools bequem einstellen und auslesen. Aufzeichnung bis 5Hz. Genauigkeit ist für mich als Laie schwer zu beurteilen. Aber wenn ich die Tracks in google reinlade, dann ist die Markierung und das Luftbild übereinstimmend. Falls die Luftbilder genau sind, dann liefert der Logger auch eine Genauigkeit von 1-2 Metern. Stephan ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
