Re: [talk-ph] Proposed OpenStreetMap Philippines Logo
Hi guys, Here's another version incorporating the three stars and a sun elements of the Philippine flag: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:OSMPH_Logo_test.png So which one do you prefer? Comments and suggestions area welcome. :-) Eugene (aka: seav) On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.comwrote: Hi guys, I created a possible logo for OpenStreetMap Philippines: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=File:OSMPH_Logo.svg This is based on the official OSM logo: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=File:Public-images-osm_logo.svg I know that the OSMPH logo is a bit too detailed and complex for a logo, but I aimed to preserved as much of the official OSM logo which is a complex logo as well. If you have any suggestions or comments, feel free to speak up! Hopefully, we can use this to produce banners, stickers, and other materials that we can use to promote OSMPH in various events, like the Open Data Day this coming February 23 (hint, hint!). Cheers! Eugene ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Proposed OpenStreetMap Philippines Logo
suggestion, wrapping the philippine flag around the magnifying glass handle? On Feb 11, 2013 8:16 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys, Here's another version incorporating the three stars and a sun elements of the Philippine flag: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:OSMPH_Logo_test.png So which one do you prefer? Comments and suggestions area welcome. :-) Eugene (aka: seav) On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.comwrote: Hi guys, I created a possible logo for OpenStreetMap Philippines: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=File:OSMPH_Logo.svg This is based on the official OSM logo: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=File:Public-images-osm_logo.svg I know that the OSMPH logo is a bit too detailed and complex for a logo, but I aimed to preserved as much of the official OSM logo which is a complex logo as well. If you have any suggestions or comments, feel free to speak up! Hopefully, we can use this to produce banners, stickers, and other materials that we can use to promote OSMPH in various events, like the Open Data Day this coming February 23 (hint, hint!). Cheers! Eugene ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Proposed OpenStreetMap Philippines Logo
I like them both! Although I prefer the first version (PH map only). One personal request is to remove the star (Manila country capital), never been a fan of Manila as much more important than the rest of the country. :) Can we run a like campaign on facebook? Great work Eugene (as always)! On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 8:16 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys, Here's another version incorporating the three stars and a sun elements of the Philippine flag: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:OSMPH_Logo_test.png So which one do you prefer? Comments and suggestions area welcome. :-) Eugene (aka: seav) On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: Hi guys, I created a possible logo for OpenStreetMap Philippines: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=File:OSMPH_Logo.svg This is based on the official OSM logo: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=File:Public-images-osm_logo.svg I know that the OSMPH logo is a bit too detailed and complex for a logo, but I aimed to preserved as much of the official OSM logo which is a complex logo as well. If you have any suggestions or comments, feel free to speak up! Hopefully, we can use this to produce banners, stickers, and other materials that we can use to promote OSMPH in various events, like the Open Data Day this coming February 23 (hint, hint!). Cheers! Eugene ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
[OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a
This is about the translation of a wiki page to Dutch as a result of our gathering in Lier yesterday. So the rest of the text is in Dutch. We hebben heel wat kunnen bespreken op de bijeenkomst gisteren in Lier. Eén van de pijnpunten is het moeilijk terugvinden van *pertinente *informatie op de wiki. Iedereen was het erover eens dat op de Duitstalige pagina DE:how_to_map_a de informatie wat toegankelijker was en we hebben besloten dat we die pagina in het Nederlands willen vertalen. Er is gisteren wat foutgelopen. De pagina was niet volledig overgekopieerd. Dat heb ik vanmorgen hersteld. Ik heb ook een index aangemaakt die naar de Duitstalige secties doorverwijst. Verder heb ik veelvoorkomende termen omgezet van Duits naar Nederlands met search/replace in een teksteditor. Enerzijds betekent dat wat minder typwerk en een meer consistent gebruik van termen. Anderzijds kunnen daar hier een daar wel wat foutjes ingeslopen zijn en is het nu niet meer puur Duits, wat hopelijk niet voor teveel verwarring zorgt. Wat met bushaltes te maken heeft, heb ik al trachten te vertalen. Wie had ooit kunnen denken, dat ik daarmee zou beginnen..? :-) De rest laat ik aan jullie over, dus allen daarheen: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NL:How_to_map_a Misschien hier wel even vermelden onder welke letter/sectie je aan het werk bent. Edit conflicts are a pain. mvg, Jo ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a
On Sunday 10 February 2013 10:19:58 Jo wrote: We hebben heel wat kunnen bespreken op de bijeenkomst gisteren in Lier. Eén van de pijnpunten is het moeilijk terugvinden van *pertinente *informatie op de wiki. Je had misschien toch een herinnering moeten sturen naar de mailing list want ik was het al compleet vergeten. Maar goed, 'k moest toch werken dus 'k had er waarschijnlijk toch niet kunnen zijn. Iedereen was het erover eens dat op de Duitstalige pagina DE:how_to_map_a de informatie wat toegankelijker was en we hebben besloten dat we die pagina in het Nederlands willen vertalen. Goed idee. Wel een kleine kanttekening: hoe wordt het op de pagina aangepakt als er een verschil qua tagging is tussen België en Nederland? Kan nu niet direct een concreet voorbeeld vinden, maar verschillen zijn er zeker. Wat met bushaltes te maken heeft, heb ik al trachten te vertalen. Wie had ooit kunnen denken, dat ik daarmee zou beginnen..? :-) De rest laat ik aan jullie over, dus allen daarheen: Dan zal het aan mij waarschijnlijk wel zijn om alles van spoorwegen te vertalen zeker :-) Als ik er vandaag nog niet toe kom zal het wel iets voor de volgende dagen zijn. Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a
Op 10 februari 2013 12:55 schreef Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com het volgende: On Sunday 10 February 2013 10:19:58 Jo wrote: We hebben heel wat kunnen bespreken op de bijeenkomst gisteren in Lier. Eén van de pijnpunten is het moeilijk terugvinden van *pertinente *informatie op de wiki. Je had misschien toch een herinnering moeten sturen naar de mailing list want ik was het al compleet vergeten. Maar goed, 'k moest toch werken dus 'k had er waarschijnlijk toch niet kunnen zijn. Ja, we hebben je gemist. Grappig dat we elkaar na al die jaren nog steeds niet ontmoet hebben. Er waren mensen van heinde en verre, maar niemand van het relatief dichtbije Antwerpen. Iedereen was het erover eens dat op de Duitstalige pagina DE:how_to_map_a de informatie wat toegankelijker was en we hebben besloten dat we die pagina in het Nederlands willen vertalen. Goed idee. Wel een kleine kanttekening: hoe wordt het op de pagina aangepakt als er een verschil qua tagging is tussen België en Nederland? Kan nu niet direct een concreet voorbeeld vinden, maar verschillen zijn er zeker. Ik zou het er gewoon bij noteren. Wat de meeste thema's betreft, zou het beter zijn dat we het erover eens worden om het op dezelfde manier te doen. Wat met bushaltes te maken heeft, heb ik al trachten te vertalen. Wie had ooit kunnen denken, dat ik daarmee zou beginnen..? :-) De rest laat ik aan jullie over, dus allen daarheen: Dan zal het aan mij waarschijnlijk wel zijn om alles van spoorwegen te vertalen zeker :-) Als ik er vandaag nog niet toe kom zal het wel iets voor de volgende dagen zijn. Oh, er vroeg iemand waar al dat detail bij de gemapte spoorlijnen vandaan kwam... De volgende keer zal weer wat dichter bij Leuven doorgaan. (Behalve als er iemand anders eerder elders een meeting organiseert, Ben Abelshausen wanneer beginnen jullie met die regelmatige meet ups in Gent?) Jo ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a
On 2013-02-10 10:19, Jo wrote : This is about the translation of a wiki page to Dutch as a result of our gathering in Lier yesterday. So the rest of the text is in Dutch. J'ai jeté un coup d'œil à la page en français et je constate qu'elle concerne essentiellement la France. Et un peu comme les pages qu'on trouve sur le Web concernant la législation ou les règlements concernant la santé et qui ne prennent pas la peine de dire qu'elles concernent la France. So, will the page in Dutch apply to Belgium or Netherlands? Do not forget to mention it. Side note: when translating from one language to another, GoogleTrans first translates to English and then to the other language. So, it's better to make an English translation first, to correct the mistakes in English (in which the OSM term are best defined) and then to translate to the other language. Cordialement, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a
There are of course some minor differences between The Netherlands and Belgium, but they are not big enough to warrant 2 separate wiki pages. Thus the NL page is the translation in Dutch of the German page. Where there are differences for specific tags/sections of the page, this can be added in the topic itself. As far as I'm concerned, it would be better to try and find common ground though. As for using the English translation as an intermediate because this happens to be what Google translate does, I'm sorry, but German and Dutch are near enough to each other in structure that it makes a lot more sense to translate directly. If somebody is more familiar with English, they are, of course, free to grab the section from the English translation and translate that one to Dutch. What is most important with translations performed by humans is to translate towards your own native language with good knowledge of the language one is translating from. The rules are different for machine translation. Jo 2013/2/10 A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com On 2013-02-10 10:19, Jo wrote : This is about the translation of a wiki page to Dutch as a result of our gathering in Lier yesterday. So the rest of the text is in Dutch. J'ai jeté un coup d'œil à la page en français et je constate qu'elle concerne essentiellement la France. Et un peu comme les pages qu'on trouve sur le Web concernant la législation ou les règlements concernant la santé et qui ne prennent pas la peine de dire qu'elles concernent la France. So, will the page in Dutch apply to Belgium or Netherlands? Do not forget to mention it. Side note: when translating from one language to another, GoogleTrans first translates to English and then to the other language. So, it's better to make an English translation first, to correct the mistakes in English (in which the OSM term are best defined) and then to translate to the other language. Cordialement, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a
What I mean is that if anything is specific to one country, I suggest to add a picture or sign containing the two letters of that country in front of that anything. Dutch is read by more than BE and NL. Making the same page in English would help reading and translating by those who don't understand the other languages. Cordialement, André. ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a
2013/2/10 A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com What I mean is that if anything is specific to one country, I suggest to add a picture or sign containing the two letters of that country in front of that anything. Dutch is read by more than BE and NL. Making the same page in English would help reading and translating by those who don't understand the other languages. You're probably right about that. I was convinced the page had already been translated into English, but apparently it wasn't. Ideally it would be translated by a native English speaker. Jo ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a
I don't mind taking a throw at translating anything from English to Dutch. I've been americanised enough by work that I probably write better English than Dutch by now. That being said, someone better prepare him/herself to edit my work so it doesn't sound like a techie wrote it and the Dutch actually sounds ok. Any page in particular that still needs someone assigned ? I'll probably can finish it by mid-week somewhere, but I like to know if someone can play editor afterwards. My Dutch isn't really that good and I lost the feeling for the Dt-rules, or what is tD ? ;-) Glenn On 02/10/2013 05:02 PM, Jo wrote: 2013/2/10 A.Pirard.Papou a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com mailto:a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com What I mean is that if anything is specific to one country, I suggest to add a picture or sign containing the two letters of that country in front of that anything. Dutch is read by more than BE and NL. Making the same page in English would help reading and translating by those who don't understand the other languages. You're probably right about that. I was convinced the page had already been translated into English, but apparently it wasn't. Ideally it would be translated by a native English speaker. Jo ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a
Ik denk dat we verkeerd bezig zijn: Deze pagina is GEEN vertaling van de orginele How-to-map_a (engelstalig). Ik vrees ook dat de pagina te groot is. PS: heb het hulp-scherm aangepast (verwees constant naar DE) Op 10 februari 2013 20:06 schreef Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com het volgende: On Sunday 10 February 2013 10:19:58 Jo wrote: De rest laat ik aan jullie over, dus allen daarheen: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NL:How_to_map_a Is die pagina soms te lang voor de server? Als ik iets wil aanpassen krijg ik voortdurend timeouts. Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be -- Ivo De Broeck Valleilaan 13 3360 Korbeek-lo tel +32 16 43 84 93 gsm +32 486 17 61 13 ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a
Deze pagina is GEEN vertaling van de orginele How-to-map_a (engelstalig). Dit lijkt mij in te gaan tegen de regels van de wiki. Dat de pagina (te) groot is, is een ander probleem. Op 10 februari 2013 20:38 schreef Jo winfi...@gmail.com het volgende: Ik kreeg die errors ook als ik de hele pagina ineens wilde aanpassen. Het is waarschijnlijk beter om het sectie per sectie te doen, maar dan moet je wel steeds 2x editeren. 1x om iets toe te voegen en 1x om de Duitse versie weg te halen. Als je back doet, staat het editorvenster er weer en kan je opnieuw proberen. Jo Op 10 februari 2013 20:35 schreef Ivo De Broeck ivo.debro...@gmail.comhet volgende: Ik denk dat we verkeerd bezig zijn: Deze pagina is GEEN vertaling van de orginele How-to-map_a (engelstalig). Ik vrees ook dat de pagina te groot is. PS: heb het hulp-scherm aangepast (verwees constant naar DE) Op 10 februari 2013 20:06 schreef Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com het volgende: On Sunday 10 February 2013 10:19:58 Jo wrote: De rest laat ik aan jullie over, dus allen daarheen: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NL:How_to_map_a Is die pagina soms te lang voor de server? Als ik iets wil aanpassen krijg ik voortdurend timeouts. Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a
Of het nu een vertaling is van de Duitse, de Engelse of de Chinese versie is, wat heeft dat voor belang. Als het maar duidelijk is voor de (beginnende) gebruiker. Dat was toch het doel van onze beslissing in Lier. Het zou spijtig zijn als deze eindeloze discussie er toe leidt dat er niets gedaan wordt. Verder hoop ik dat er meer energie gestoken wordt in het vertalen dan het zoeken van argumenten om helemaal niets te doen. Guy Vanvuchelen Van: Ivo De Broeck [mailto:ivo.debro...@gmail.com] Verzonden: zondag 10 februari 2013 20:42 Aan: winfi...@gmail.com; OpenStreetMap Belgium Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-be] wiki how_to_map_a Deze pagina is GEEN vertaling van de orginele How-to-map_a (engelstalig). Dit lijkt mij in te gaan tegen de regels van de wiki. Dat de pagina (te) groot is, is een ander probleem. Op 10 februari 2013 20:38 schreef Jo winfi...@gmail.com het volgende: Ik kreeg die errors ook als ik de hele pagina ineens wilde aanpassen. Het is waarschijnlijk beter om het sectie per sectie te doen, maar dan moet je wel steeds 2x editeren. 1x om iets toe te voegen en 1x om de Duitse versie weg te halen. Als je back doet, staat het editorvenster er weer en kan je opnieuw proberen. Jo Op 10 februari 2013 20:35 schreef Ivo De Broeck ivo.debro...@gmail.com het volgende: Ik denk dat we verkeerd bezig zijn: Deze pagina is GEEN vertaling van de orginele How-to-map_a (engelstalig). Ik vrees ook dat de pagina te groot is. PS: heb het hulp-scherm aangepast (verwees constant naar DE) Op 10 februari 2013 20:06 schreef Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com het volgende: On Sunday 10 February 2013 10:19:58 Jo wrote: De rest laat ik aan jullie over, dus allen daarheen: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NL:How_to_map_a Is die pagina soms te lang voor de server? Als ik iets wil aanpassen krijg ik voortdurend timeouts. Ben ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be ___ Talk-be mailing list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
[OSM-talk] SOTM-FR online registration open
Online registration for the upcoming State Of The Map France are now open on eventbrite: http://sotmfr2013.eventbrite.fr/ It will take place in Lyon on 23rd and 24th of february (that's in 2 weeks). For more details about this event, please have a look at the wiki pages: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:SotmFR (french) http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/SotmFR (english) Do not hesitate to forward this news in you local community, everybody is welcome ! -- Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France - http://openstreetmap.fr/u/cquest ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] mapping bridges - some ideas
i've been thinking about this for a while and it's bugging me, so i'd like to hear what the rest of you think. the way we map bridges at the moment is by adding tags to the road/railway/footpath/etc., something like this: bridge = yes layer = 1 which seems a bit clumsy, and doesn't reflect very well what's happening. the problem shows itself best when there is one bridge with several ways on it, for example this near where i live: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-36.850112lon=174.793894zoom=18layers=M and this: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-36.830896lon=174.745834zoom=18layers=M all of these roads/railways go over a single bridge, but from the mapping each appears to have its own separate bridge, that is one bridge per way. i'm sure there are many other examples what i would like to hear feedback on is this: perhaps we change the way we map this, and instead map the bridge and the way as entirely separate entities. so, the bridge could be represented with a rectangle, tagged as follows: man_made = bridge layer = 1 name = Auckland Harbour Bridge the ends of the rectangle would be traced over the ends of the bridge structure. then the ways go over, but they no longer have bridge tags or layer tags applied to them, as they are applied to the bridge instead. it would also allow tagging of the bridge without interfering with tagging of the road which goes over it. the second place this will benefit us is the situation where there are bridges with nothing on them. i'm thinking abandoned rail bridges in the ex-industrial cities of uk, where the rails have been ripped up, leaving nothing to apply the bridge tags too, but there are more than likely other examples. we could maybe apply a similar logic to cuttings, tunnels and similar features so, comments, suggestions, revisions, problems, etc. please? cheers, -- robin http://universitywithoutconditions.ac.nz - Auckland's Free University ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] mapping bridges - some ideas
On 02/10/2013 11:50 PM, Robin Paulson wrote: comments, suggestions, revisions, problems, etc. please? Please don't start another discussion on the same subject in yet another place, but join the existing ones. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/man_made%3Dbridge and the two mailinglist threads mentioned at the bottom of that wiki page. -- --- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [Talk-br] Palestra Técnica do CISL: Apresentando o OpenStreetMap
Pessoal, subi o vídeo no YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1wJajkzWe4 Apesar do vídeo estar disponibilizado no site do CISL/Serpro (inclusive num codec livre, o OGG) acho que o YouTube é um bom canal para quem esteja procurando por OSM nele. Lembrando, os slides estão disponíveis em http://nighto.net/palestra-apresentando-o-openstreetmap-cisl-serpro/ e disponibilizados numa licença livre. Compartilhem! =) []s Arlindo Pereira 2013/1/28 Arlete Meneguette arletemenegue...@gmail.com O Comitê Técnico de Implementação de Software Livre do Governo Federal, convida você a participar da palestra Apresentando o OpenStreetMap, que será realizada no dia 01 de fevereiro de 2013. Resumo: Cartografia digital; licenciamento; problemas com dados em copyright; motivação de um mapa em licença livre; utilizações comerciais e governamentais e em dispositivos diversos; criação de mapas: editores, renderizadores; personalizações possíveis; modelo de dados cartográficos; comunidade brasileira e internacional. Transmissão: A atividade será transmitida via internet pelo serviço Assiste - Vídeo Streaming Livre do Serpro. Para acompanhar, acesse: assiste.serpro.gov.br/cisl/ Horário: 10h ás 12h Local: Auditório Serpro Andaraí Palestrante: Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Junior, é um especialista em cartografia colaborativa com OpenStreetMap. Colabora desde 2007 com o projeto, já tendo palestrado em diversos eventos, como FISL, Campus Party, ENECOMP e State of the Map, a conferência internacional do OSM. Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação na Unirio, trabalha também com programação web na Caos Design e escreve um blog nighto.net ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-br] Palestra Técnica do CISL: Apresentando o OpenStreetMap
Arlindo Postei ambos os links na nossa FanPage de Geocolaboração em https://www.facebook.com/Geocolaboracao Arlete Em 10 de fevereiro de 2013 15:46, Arlindo Pereira openstreet...@arlindopereira.com escreveu: Pessoal, subi o vídeo no YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1wJajkzWe4 Apesar do vídeo estar disponibilizado no site do CISL/Serpro (inclusive num codec livre, o OGG) acho que o YouTube é um bom canal para quem esteja procurando por OSM nele. Lembrando, os slides estão disponíveis em http://nighto.net/palestra-apresentando-o-openstreetmap-cisl-serpro/ e disponibilizados numa licença livre. Compartilhem! =) []s Arlindo Pereira 2013/1/28 Arlete Meneguette arletemenegue...@gmail.com O Comitê Técnico de Implementação de Software Livre do Governo Federal, convida você a participar da palestra Apresentando o OpenStreetMap, que será realizada no dia 01 de fevereiro de 2013. Resumo: Cartografia digital; licenciamento; problemas com dados em copyright; motivação de um mapa em licença livre; utilizações comerciais e governamentais e em dispositivos diversos; criação de mapas: editores, renderizadores; personalizações possíveis; modelo de dados cartográficos; comunidade brasileira e internacional. Transmissão: A atividade será transmitida via internet pelo serviço Assiste - Vídeo Streaming Livre do Serpro. Para acompanhar, acesse: assiste.serpro.gov.br/cisl/ Horário: 10h ás 12h Local: Auditório Serpro Andaraí Palestrante: Arlindo Saraiva Pereira Junior, é um especialista em cartografia colaborativa com OpenStreetMap. Colabora desde 2007 com o projeto, já tendo palestrado em diversos eventos, como FISL, Campus Party, ENECOMP e State of the Map, a conferência internacional do OSM. Bacharelando em Sistemas de Informação na Unirio, trabalha também com programação web na Caos Design e escreve um blog nighto.net ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br ___ Talk-br mailing list Talk-br@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br
Re: [Talk-de] Tags für die grüne Welle
Hallo, ich bin skeptisch. Das ist ja nochmals komplizierter als ÖPNV Relationen und die versteht doch schon kaum einer. Außerdem frage ich mich, wie man an solche Informationen ran kommen soll? Beim ÖPNV kann ich einfach eine Linie abfahren und kenne damit die Relation. Zusätzlich gibt es dann auch noch Aushänge. Ich glaube, dass die grünen Wellen zu speziell sind, als dass sie in OSM aufgenommen werden müssten und die Informationsbeschaffung ist für eine ordentliche Wartung der angelegten Relationen mit zu großen Hürden verbunden. Ich vermute nicht, dass zu den grünen Wellen regelmäßig Dokumente veröffentlicht werden und deine Information eher Insiderwissen ist? Daher mein Votum: Dagegen, solche Relationen aufzunehmen - unabhängig von dem Taggingschema. Grüße und sorry Timo Am 09.02.2013 21:22, schrieb Martin Schafran: Hallo, ich möchte ein paar tags für die grüne Welle vorschlagen. Falls nicht bekannt, hier ist die Implementierung: www.ampelmeter.com Für eine Fahrbeziehung (relation mit members from, via, to), die am Montag zw. 6 und 20 Uhr 35 sek. grün und 50 sek. rot ist. glosa:timing:conditional=35,50 @ MONDAY @ (06:00-20:00 UTC) GLOSA - green light optimal speed advisory Es gibt (selten) Ampeln, die innerhalb eines Umlaufs (Periode), der für ein Subnetz gilt, mehrmals ticken. Das Beispiel: glosa:timing:conditional=15,20,25,25 @ MONDAY @ (06:00-20:00 UTC) hat den gleichen Umlauf von 85 sek., tickt aber in der Zeit 2 mal auf grün und rot. Die Ampeln bzw. Fahrbeziehungen müssen untereinander synchronisiert werden, dazu dient eine Zwischenzeitenmatrix (inter_green_matrix). Die ist hier etwas anders definiert als in der Verkehrstechnik und zwar so: Fahrbeziehung 1 schaltet um 0 auf Grün, Fahrbeziehung 2 schaltet auf Grün um 23. Die Zwischenzeit ist also 23. Voraussetzung ist gleiche Umlaufzeit. Das ist eine Relation mit zwei Fahrbeziehungen (Relationen) als members. Die erste ist die Referenzrelation und die zweite ist die referenzierte Relation. glosa:inter_green:conditional=23 @ MONDAY @ (06:00-20:00 UTC) Um über verkehrsabhängige Ampeln bescheid zu wissen werden Ampelknoten mit tags versehen glosa:control_procedure=phase_adaptation,green_extension oder glosa:control_procedure=adaptive das wars was haltet ihr davon? schönen gruß martin thread im forum: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=20041 ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tags für die grüne Welle
On Sun, 10 Feb 2013, Timo Schaal wrote: Hallo, ich bin skeptisch. Das ist ja nochmals komplizierter als ÖPNV Relationen und die versteht doch schon kaum einer. Außerdem frage ich mich, wie man an solche Informationen ran kommen soll? Beim ÖPNV kann ich einfach eine Linie abfahren und kenne damit die Relation. Zusätzlich gibt es dann auch noch Aushänge. Ich glaube, dass die grünen Wellen zu speziell sind, als dass sie in OSM aufgenommen werden müssten und die Informationsbeschaffung ist für eine ordentliche Wartung der angelegten Relationen mit zu großen Hürden verbunden. Ich vermute nicht, dass zu den grünen Wellen regelmäßig Dokumente veröffentlicht werden und deine Information eher Insiderwissen ist? Daher mein Votum: Dagegen, solche Relationen aufzunehmen - unabhängig von dem Taggingschema. Ich habe hier eine sog. 'gruene Welle' Strecke vor der Haustuer, die genau bei der vorgegebenen Geschwindigkeit bei der 2. Ampel auf rot schaltet. Da waere es z.B. sinnvoll, die echte gruene Welle von ca 60 km/h innerorts einzutragen ;) Kleine Anekdote am Rande (die ist aber echt), ansonsten enthalte ich mich meiner Stimme... A.___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tags für die grüne Welle
Am 10.02.2013 13:12, schrieb Alexander Lehner: On Sun, 10 Feb 2013, Timo Schaal wrote: Hallo, ich bin skeptisch. Das ist ja nochmals komplizierter als ÖPNV Relationen und die versteht doch schon kaum einer. Außerdem frage ich mich, wie man an solche Informationen ran kommen soll? Beim ÖPNV kann ich einfach eine Linie abfahren und kenne damit die Relation. Zusätzlich gibt es dann auch noch Aushänge. Ich glaube, dass die grünen Wellen zu speziell sind, als dass sie in OSM aufgenommen werden müssten und die Informationsbeschaffung ist für eine ordentliche Wartung der angelegten Relationen mit zu großen Hürden verbunden. Ich vermute nicht, dass zu den grünen Wellen regelmäßig Dokumente veröffentlicht werden und deine Information eher Insiderwissen ist? Daher mein Votum: Dagegen, solche Relationen aufzunehmen - unabhängig von dem Taggingschema. Ich habe hier eine sog. 'gruene Welle' Strecke vor der Haustuer, die genau bei der vorgegebenen Geschwindigkeit bei der 2. Ampel auf rot schaltet. Da waere es z.B. sinnvoll, die echte gruene Welle von ca 60 km/h innerorts einzutragen ;) Kleine Anekdote am Rande (die ist aber echt), ansonsten enthalte ich mich meiner Stimme... A. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de Ich wäre dafür solche Tags zu benutzen und das auch einzutragen, auch wenn ich das im Moment nicht könnte da mir die Infos fehlen. Wenn es aber eine gute Beschreibung gäbe, wie die Werte ermittelt werden können, dann würden die auch vermehrt eingetragen. Gruß Gisbert ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Tags für die grüne Welle
Am Sonntag, den 10.02.2013, 12:54 +0100 schrieb Timo Schaal: Hallo, ich bin skeptisch. Das ist ja nochmals komplizierter als ÖPNV Relationen und die versteht doch schon kaum einer. Außerdem frage ich mich, wie man an solche Informationen ran kommen soll? Beim ÖPNV kann ich einfach eine Linie abfahren und kenne damit die Relation. Zusätzlich gibt es dann auch noch Aushänge. Ich glaube, dass die grünen Wellen zu speziell sind, als dass sie in OSM aufgenommen werden müssten und die Informationsbeschaffung ist für eine ordentliche Wartung der angelegten Relationen mit zu großen Hürden verbunden. Ich vermute nicht, dass zu den grünen Wellen regelmäßig Dokumente veröffentlicht werden und deine Information eher Insiderwissen ist? Daher mein Votum: Dagegen, solche Relationen aufzunehmen - unabhängig von dem Taggingschema. Grüße und sorry Timo [...] +1 Ich kann Timo nur voll und ganz zustimmen. Bei allen möglichen Eingangsparametern wie Uhrzeit, Wochentag, Feiertag, Verkehrsdichte, Verkehrsfluß usw. lassen sich IMHO ohne Kenntnis der genauen Programmierung nur mit erheblichem Aufwand erfassen. Und bei chaotischer Ampelsteuerung unmöglich. Wenn dann in einer externen Datenbank und nicht in OSM. Schönen Sonntag noch Gruß Jörg ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-it] modus operandi ?
On 08.02.2013 20:27, David Paleino wrote: On Thu, 7 Feb 2013 02:28:41 +0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2013/2/7 Mario Pichetti mario.piche...@gmail.com: Il 05/02/2013 22:40, David Paleino ha scritto: Un numero di telefono certamente non deve contenere spazi. personalmente preferisco spazi, perché rendono molto più trasparente il numero, ed altri mappatori possono verificare meglio se giusto. Al solito metto i numeri nel formato internazionale (esempio): phone=+39 06 3243234 gli spazi aiutano anche a distinguere le varie parti del numero (prefisso internazionale, città, numero) ...che aveva senso una volta, forse, visto che adesso in Italia anche per chiamare dentro lo stesso distretto telefonico si deve comunque usare il prefisso. Ma non serve solo a distinguere, serve anche per aumentare la leggibilità (o per ricordarselo). Per questo anche ci sono i separatori nei numeri: 1.000.000.000 è più leggibile di 10. Per il database il numero telefonico si potrebbe anche tenerlo senza separatori e formattarlo quando viene mostrato sullo schermo, ma senza algoritmi diversi per ogni paese, non è fattibile, per questo sono in favore di usare i spazi, perché già includono il formato corretto, e si possono semplicemente trasformare in un numero senza spazi (l’altra direzione non è possibile in tutti i casi). Persino i numeri normali per esempio in India si gruppano diversamente: 1 milliardo diventa 1'00'00'00'000, in Cina 10''. -- Cheers, Alex ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] modus operandi ?
Anche io sono per i numeri telefonici con gli spazi. All'inizio lo mettevo solamente tra il prefisso nazionale ed il numero telefonico (il prefisso nazionale non è più un prefisso, ma fa parte integrante del numero), mentre gli ultimi tempi ho optato per usare lo spazio anche tra il prefisso di una volta ed il numero, perché è molto più leggibile. Quindi phone=+39 040 123123 Damjan 10.02.2013 - 13:37 - Alexander Roalter: On 08.02.2013 20:27, David Paleino wrote: On Thu, 7 Feb 2013 02:28:41 +0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2013/2/7 Mario Pichetti mario.piche...@gmail.com: Il 05/02/2013 22:40, David Paleino ha scritto: Un numero di telefono certamente non deve contenere spazi. personalmente preferisco spazi, perché rendono molto più trasparente il numero, ed altri mappatori possono verificare meglio se giusto. Al solito metto i numeri nel formato internazionale (esempio): phone=+39 06 3243234 gli spazi aiutano anche a distinguere le varie parti del numero (prefisso internazionale, città, numero) ...che aveva senso una volta, forse, visto che adesso in Italia anche per chiamare dentro lo stesso distretto telefonico si deve comunque usare il prefisso. Ma non serve solo a distinguere, serve anche per aumentare la leggibilità (o per ricordarselo). Per questo anche ci sono i separatori nei numeri: 1.000.000.000 è più leggibile di 10. Per il database il numero telefonico si potrebbe anche tenerlo senza separatori e formattarlo quando viene mostrato sullo schermo, ma senza algoritmi diversi per ogni paese, non è fattibile, per questo sono in favore di usare i spazi, perché già includono il formato corretto, e si possono semplicemente trasformare in un numero senza spazi (l’altra direzione non è possibile in tutti i casi). Persino i numeri normali per esempio in India si gruppano diversamente: 1 milliardo diventa 1'00'00'00'000, in Cina 10''. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
[Talk-it] Mappare la M5
Da oggi la prima parte della metropolitana lilla di Milano è aperta. Qualcun* vuole mappare la nuova metro e farsi un giro sulla metro senza conducente? - MM -- Michael Moroni (+39)3313151159 @Airon90 Non stampare questa email se non necessario! Pensa all'ambiente! Ne presu ĉi tiun retpoŝton se nenecese! Pripensu al medio! ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] Mappare la M5
Il 02/10/2013 01:59 PM, Michael Moroni scrisse: Da oggi la prima parte della metropolitana lilla di Milano è aperta. Qualcun* vuole mappare la nuova metro e farsi un giro sulla metro senza conducente? Guarda che e' gia' mappata da un bel po'... :-) http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/85594146 Oddio, mancano un po' di dettagli relativi alle fermate... ciao maxx ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-it] modus operandi ?
Il 10/02/2013 13:48, Damjan Gerl ha scritto: +39 040 123123 fatto http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IT:How_to_map_a:-) Ciao Mario. ___ Talk-it mailing list Talk-it@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-it
Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Reminder: Social this Thursday (7th Feb)
Hi Florian, All, On Thursday, Stuart showed us his example map page [1] which is a good starting point (although I still think some banner across the top like the log-in banner we saw on Thursday would be nice). Today I found a very useful blog that discusses how to create Mapbox/Tilemill functionality with leaflet. Very interesting read - I was particularly interested in how Mapbox do the interactive/pop-up bits without constantly querying a database [3]. The resulting map [4] provides very swift and low overhead display of legend and pop-up data (much better than when I was experimenting with pulling vector data from a MySQL database in my attempted allotments map last year). I will see if I can find the time to play with this before next months meeting. Rob [1] http://mappa.stulester.co.uk/map-test/ [2] http://blog.thematicmapping.org/2012/11/exploring-mapbox-stack-mbtiles-tilejson.html [3] http://mapbox.com/blog/how-interactivity-works-utfgrid/ [4] http://earthatlas.info/nz/ On 10 February 2013 22:26, Florian LAINEZ winner...@free.fr wrote: I'm in ! Good news that we plan a new website by the way. Regards 2013/2/8 Andy Robinson ajrli...@gmail.com Florian (and others not there last night), ** ** Next month’s meeting on the 7th March will be at my place in Sutton Coldfield. We plan to spend some time as a group with Stu to work on the content of the new Mappa-Mercia website. ** ** I’ve got limited space (8 max really) so please if you were not at the social last night let me know if you would like to come along. ** ** Cheers Andy ** ** *From:* Florian LAINEZ [mailto:winner...@free.fr] *Sent:* 08 February 2013 15:24 *To:* Rob Nickerson *Cc:* talk-gb-westmidlands *Subject:* Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Reminder: Social this Thursday (7th Feb) ** ** I coudn't do it yesterday sorry. I hope you had a good time through. See you next month, regards Florian PS if you need my help for SOTM I'll have some spare time next weeks, just tell me. ** ** 2013/2/3 Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com Hi all, Hope you are well. Just a quick reminder of our next social. As always there's plenty to talk about - SoTM, helping Stu with the new website, piwik, mapping stories from the last month, etc.. The *next social* of the Midlands OSM User Group will be on *Thursday, 7th February, 2013, 8pm to 10pm-ish*. - *Venue*: The Bull, Price Street, Birmingham Rob ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands -- *Florian Lainez* http://twitter.com/overflorian http://www.nouslesgeeks.fr -- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2897 / Virus Database: 2639/6088 - Release Date: 02/07/13 -- *Florian Lainez* http://twitter.com/overflorian http://www.nouslesgeeks.fr ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands ___ Talk-gb-westmidlands mailing list Talk-gb-westmidlands@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb-westmidlands
[Talk-es] Un juez se fía más de los datos de Google Earth que del catastro
http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/noticia/galicia/2013/02/08/fiscala-urbanismo-vigo-dice-fia-google-earth-catastro/0003_201302G8P12994.htm Tiene huevos que usen las fotos de Google Earth antes que PNOA o similares. Eso o que el periodista no se ha empapado de una (cosa harto probable...). De todas formas, nada nuevo bajo el sol... la verdad es que un proyecto de reconocimiento de edificios en imágenes por satélite para depurar el catastro sería muy guapo y tendría un impacto de puta madre. Nos vemos. ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] Un juez se fía más de los datos de Google Earth que del catastro
On Domingo, 10 de febrero de 2013 12:21:26 Cruz Enrique Borges Hernandez wrote: http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/noticia/galicia/2013/02/08/fiscala-urbanismo-v igo-dice-fia-google-earth-catastro/0003_201302G8P12994.htm Tiene huevos que usen las fotos de Google Earth antes que PNOA o similares. Eso o que el periodista no se ha empapado de una (cosa harto probable...). De todas formas, nada nuevo bajo el sol... la verdad es que un proyecto de reconocimiento de edificios en imágenes por satélite para depurar el catastro sería muy guapo y tendría un impacto de puta madre. Nos vemos. ¿PNOA tiene registro histórico? La fiscal (o fiscala como dice el periódico) utilizó fotos de varias fechas que Google sí proporciona, con autor y fecha. En ese caso, a mí me parecen una prueba perfectamente sólida. Saludos Noel er Envite - A: Because it breaks the logical flow of discussion. Q: Why is top posting bad? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-es] Un juez se fía más de los datos de Google Earth que del catastro
¿PNOA tiene registro histórico? Digo yo que si, por lo menos para un juez. Estas cosas se hacen de vez en cuando y no creo que se tiren al cubo de la basura. ___ Talk-es mailing list Talk-es@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-es
Re: [Talk-ar] Reunión OSM-Geoinquietos en DOT 6/2
El sáb, 09-02-2013 a las 21:18 -0300, Fernando Toledo escribió: Para este caso es posible hacer a través de SoLAr - Software Libre Argentina (www.solar.org.ar), es una asociación civil sin fines de lucro constituida legalmente y seguro no van a tener problemas por poner a dispocición la personería jurídica (si hay algún gasto administrativo deberíamos hacernos cargo, pero creo que en éste caso no habría problemas) Hola Fernando! Más allá de que siempre tengo presente a SolAr, dado que fuí unos de sus miembros fundadores, no creo viable que el IGN haga un convenio para uso de sus datos con SolAr, ya que de ceder datos debería ser por alguno de los siguientes caminos: I. Liberar los datos para que sean de dominio público, por los menos los mas importantes como límites, datos de ríos, etc. II. Ceder los datos para uso de OSM haciendo un convenio con la Fundación OpenStreetMap. Creo que SolAr si puede ayudar a que se lleve a cabo la opción I, dado que promueve las libertades de uso del software y las tecnologías abiertas. Por otro lado lo que se puede hacer desde SolAr, es promover el uso del Software Libre en el ámbito del IGN, ya que cada vez se usa menos allí. Por ejemplo luego de meses de planificación para que se use OpenOffice (cuando aún era IGM), se consiguió el objetivo y se usó durante todo el año 2008. Lamentablemente la nueva administración que asumió en el 2009 erradicó de un día para el otro el uso de OpenOffice volviendo a reemplazarlo por MS Office. Saludos, -- Martin Andres Gomez Gimenez web: http://www.i-nis.com.ar e-mail: mggime...@i-nis.com.ar Jabber: mggime...@i-nis.com.ar Usuario Linux: #306000 gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-key 0x52C123F7 Key fingerprint = 9155 6573 EE6D 1D80 5E2B 6F5B F14A AF1E 52C1 23F7 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Talk-ar mailing list Talk-ar@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ar
[Talk-at] LUGT/OSM-Stammtisch Innsbruck am 14. Feber 2013
Servus! Wir möchten zum nächsten gemeinsamen LUGT-/OSM-Stammtisch einladen/erinnern: am Donnerstag, 14. Feber 2013 um 19:00 Uhr im Restaurant Kastanie Innsbrucker Straße 4, 6176 Völs Wir freuen uns auf ein zahlreiches Erscheinen! Die Einladung ist wie immer auch im OSM-Wiki zu finden: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Innsbruck/Stammtisch Grüße Simon ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] Changesests in Leonding revidieren
Hallo, ich habe die genannten Changesets revertiert: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14977120 Dazu habe ich das Reverter-Plugin in JOSM verwendet und die drei Changesets von der höchsten zur niedrigsten Nummer revertieren lassen. Grüße aus Tirol Simon On Sun, 2013-02-10 at 00:47 +0100, Flaimo wrote: Hallo, ich kenn mich mit dem revidieren ganzer Changesets leider nicht aus. Könnte das vielleicht wer von euch übernehmen? Konkret geht es um die Changesets 14972678 , 14972806 und 14973002 wo ein neuer User gleich mal einen Haufen Sachen rausgelöscht hat, z.B. Verbindungsknoten von Gehwegen mit Straßen in Kreuzungsbereichen entfernt hat. Ich hab den User schon angeschrieben und ihm gesagt, dass er so nicht vorgehen kann und er in Zukunft zuerst nachfragen soll. Ich vermute aber stark, dass er es selber nicht schaffen wird die Änderungen rückgängig zu machen. flaimo ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] Changesests in Leonding revidieren
Liebe Community, ich bin der oben angesprochene dumme und vorschnelle neue User! Ich bin - zwar im Glauben etwas positives zu tun- übers Ziel hinausgeschossen!! Ich danke auch @flaimo, dass er mich sofort angeschrieben hat und auf meine Fehler aufmerksam gemacht hat. Ich möchte diese Fehler gerne ausmerzen, aber ich bin leider wirklich zu schwach auf der Brust, um die obigen Chancesets selbst zu revidieren. Ich bin soweit gekommen, dass ich JOSM installiert habe und auch das Reverter-Plugin, aber nun sollte ich zig Konflikte lösen und da steige ich aus! Außerdem sind in JOSM in der heruntergeladenen Karte meine falschen Änderungen (noch) gar nicht drinnen -- gibt es deswegen die ganzen Konflikte? Bitte helft mir - auch wenn ich ein blöder vorschneller neuer User bin. :-( moema ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] Changesests in Leonding revidieren
Hallo moema! Ich möchte diese Fehler gerne ausmerzen, aber ich bin leider wirklich zu schwach auf der Brust, um die obigen Chancesets selbst zu revidieren. Ich habe das heute vormittags bereits erledigt. Das dürfte auch die vielen Konflikte bei dir erklären. Erklärung: Du versuchst jetzt etwas zurückzusetzen, was sich in der Zwischenzeit (durch mein Changeset) geändert hat. Zusammengefasst: jetzt ist der Stand (bis auf die Versionsnummern der Objekte) so wie vor deinen Änderungen. Leider sind jetzt auch deine wertvollen Änderungen an nicht mehr vorhandenen Zebrastreifen verloren gegangen. Bitte helft mir - auch wenn ich ein blöder vorschneller neuer User bin. :-( Kein Problem (insbesondere, weil sofort reagiert wurde). Jeder macht anfangs Fehler. :-) Ich bin soweit gekommen, dass ich JOSM installiert habe Es gibt eine Vielzahl von Editoren (JOSM, Potlatch, Merkaartor, iD) und jeder Editor hat seine Bedienkonzepte und Vor-/Nachteile. Probier einfach aus, was dir am besten zusagt. :-) Grüße Simon ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] Changesests in Leonding revidieren
Hat jemand die Emailadresse von dem neuen User aus Leonding? Wohne ja auch dort, und da wäre es interessant sich mal zusammen zu setzen Lg -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Simon Legner [mailto:simon.leg...@gmail.com] Gesendet: Sonntag, 10. Februar 2013 09:45 An: talk-at@openstreetmap.org Betreff: Re: [Talk-at] Changesests in Leonding revidieren Hallo, ich habe die genannten Changesets revertiert: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14977120 Dazu habe ich das Reverter-Plugin in JOSM verwendet und die drei Changesets von der höchsten zur niedrigsten Nummer revertieren lassen. Grüße aus Tirol Simon On Sun, 2013-02-10 at 00:47 +0100, Flaimo wrote: Hallo, ich kenn mich mit dem revidieren ganzer Changesets leider nicht aus. Könnte das vielleicht wer von euch übernehmen? Konkret geht es um die Changesets 14972678 , 14972806 und 14973002 wo ein neuer User gleich mal einen Haufen Sachen rausgelöscht hat, z.B. Verbindungsknoten von Gehwegen mit Straßen in Kreuzungsbereichen entfernt hat. Ich hab den User schon angeschrieben und ihm gesagt, dass er so nicht vorgehen kann und er in Zukunft zuerst nachfragen soll. Ich vermute aber stark, dass er es selber nicht schaffen wird die Änderungen rückgängig zu machen. flaimo ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
Re: [Talk-at] Changesests in Leonding revidieren
On 02/11/2013 08:38 AM, DI (fh) Lukas Dorn-Fussenegger wrote: Hat jemand die Emailadresse von dem neuen User aus Leonding? Wohne ja auch dort, und da wäre es interessant sich mal zusammen zu setzen Siehe http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-at/2013-February/005447.html Der User hat sich gestern auch auf der ML gemeldet. Norbert ___ Talk-at mailing list Talk-at@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-at
[OSM-Talk-ZA] Cleaning up an old import
Hi List! I searched an address in the eastern parts of Cape Town, and I was suprised that nomatim didn't report it as residential. I checked the data, and found that vast parts of Cape Town's residential areas are made up from unclassified roads instead of residential! From the metadata, this seems to be the result of an import some years ago. I feel this should be fixed. I don't know if this can be done auto- matically, or a manual community effort is required. My proposal would be to select user=Firefishy maxspeed=60 highway=unclassified in JOSM and change all to residential. Now, a few roads that should be unclassified will be residential, but the ratio seems to be 99% wrong now vs. 1% wrong after this change. Of course, roads that have been touched since the import will missed by this, but there will be an improvement for sure. Another thing that I noticed is that the roads are massively over-noded. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/32216567 demonstrates both. It should be residential, and if you compare to aerial images, the straight section is represented with 6 nodes, 3 of them within 5m. I presume this comes from calculating the centerline of a full shape, as the road widens towards the east, where the many nodes are. (I would map that road with 3 nodes, with the two on the eastern sides interfacing between the NW-SE road, going away at 90° from there. I.e. making a slight right turn when going east. The data is just the opposite, going to the left, which gives an odd angle that is not there in reality when you come from the south and turn east.) I downloaded a section of Cape Town, exported to GPX and used gpsbabel to apply the Douglas-Pecker algorithm with 1m max deviation. The number of nodes went down to less than half! So maybe removing some excess nodes could be performed during any update. Best, David ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Cleaning up an old import
This is an excellent idea. I didn't even notice this. THe bandwidth and storage perks of doing this across large areas could be tremendous. I hope this can be done, I would not have even suggested this in fear of it going nowhere. Think I am going to start looking for similiar problems in my vicinity. Regards Marlon On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:05 AM, David Schneider d.schnei...@tradermail.info wrote: Hi List! I searched an address in the eastern parts of Cape Town, and I was suprised that nomatim didn't report it as residential. I checked the data, and found that vast parts of Cape Town's residential areas are made up from unclassified roads instead of residential! From the metadata, this seems to be the result of an import some years ago. I feel this should be fixed. I don't know if this can be done auto- matically, or a manual community effort is required. My proposal would be to select user=Firefishy maxspeed=60 highway=unclassified in JOSM and change all to residential. Now, a few roads that should be unclassified will be residential, but the ratio seems to be 99% wrong now vs. 1% wrong after this change. Of course, roads that have been touched since the import will missed by this, but there will be an improvement for sure. Another thing that I noticed is that the roads are massively over-noded. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/32216567 demonstrates both. It should be residential, and if you compare to aerial images, the straight section is represented with 6 nodes, 3 of them within 5m. I presume this comes from calculating the centerline of a full shape, as the road widens towards the east, where the many nodes are. (I would map that road with 3 nodes, with the two on the eastern sides interfacing between the NW-SE road, going away at 90° from there. I.e. making a slight right turn when going east. The data is just the opposite, going to the left, which gives an odd angle that is not there in reality when you come from the south and turn east.) I downloaded a section of Cape Town, exported to GPX and used gpsbabel to apply the Douglas-Pecker algorithm with 1m max deviation. The number of nodes went down to less than half! So maybe removing some excess nodes could be performed during any update. Best, David ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-Talk-ZA] Cleaning up an old import
Hi I would suggest downloading the section in JOSM if you don't already use it. You can then very easily apply a filter and then select all the objects and apply/change a preset where required. I would also suggested contacting the contributor privately first before mailing to public forums. There might have been a good reason for the classification and other issues you mentioned. Regards On 10 February 2013 09:05, David Schneider d.schnei...@tradermail.infowrote: Hi List! I searched an address in the eastern parts of Cape Town, and I was suprised that nomatim didn't report it as residential. I checked the data, and found that vast parts of Cape Town's residential areas are made up from unclassified roads instead of residential! From the metadata, this seems to be the result of an import some years ago. I feel this should be fixed. I don't know if this can be done auto- matically, or a manual community effort is required. My proposal would be to select user=Firefishy maxspeed=60 highway=unclassified in JOSM and change all to residential. Now, a few roads that should be unclassified will be residential, but the ratio seems to be 99% wrong now vs. 1% wrong after this change. Of course, roads that have been touched since the import will missed by this, but there will be an improvement for sure. Another thing that I noticed is that the roads are massively over-noded. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/32216567 demonstrates both. It should be residential, and if you compare to aerial images, the straight section is represented with 6 nodes, 3 of them within 5m. I presume this comes from calculating the centerline of a full shape, as the road widens towards the east, where the many nodes are. (I would map that road with 3 nodes, with the two on the eastern sides interfacing between the NW-SE road, going away at 90° from there. I.e. making a slight right turn when going east. The data is just the opposite, going to the left, which gives an odd angle that is not there in reality when you come from the south and turn east.) I downloaded a section of Cape Town, exported to GPX and used gpsbabel to apply the Douglas-Pecker algorithm with 1m max deviation. The number of nodes went down to less than half! So maybe removing some excess nodes could be performed during any update. Best, David ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za -- Gerhardus Geldenhuis ___ Talk-ZA mailing list Talk-ZA@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-za
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Extraction parcours cyclable
Le 09/02/2013 10:53, Christian Quest a écrit : Ca c'est ce que t'affiche ton navigateur... mais le contenu complet que tu as reçu (en XML) contient toutes les data... il suffit de visualiser le source de la page. 2013/2/9 Claude claude.mar...@gmail.com: Le 09/02/2013 10:20, Christian Quest a écrit : ou en plus rapide: http://api.openstreetmap.fr/api/0.6/relation/31297/full Bonjour cette url renvoie juste The data included in this document is from www.openstreetmap.org. The data is made available under ODbL. normal? merci cordialement Claude ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr Bonjour Effectivement j'avais regardé les sources de la pages mais j'avais pas attendu assez longtemps que les données s'affichent merci Claude -- Envoyé avec Mozilla Thunderbird --- ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Mise en place d'un miroir OSM
2013/2/9 Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.fr: Ce système de proxy/cache c'est ce que nous avons mis en place sur 2 Je ne ferais pas la promotion de ce proxy/cache tant que le problème de la confidentialité des authentifications ne sera pas résolu. Pieren ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Mise en place d'un miroir OSM
Une remarque au sujet de ces stats : l'utilisation des inodes à 30% dépasse largement l'utilisation du volume en terme d'espace (voisin de 8%), cela suggère que les tuiles stockées sont 4 fois trop petites et que le serveur de tuiles devrait soir retourner des tuiles 4 fois plus grandes en surface, soit stocker des tuiles 4 fois plus grandes en surface, quitte à faire un split à la volée (et vu l'usage de la CPU ce complément de travail ne devrait pas lui demander beaucoup d'effort, surtout si le redécoupage à la demande utilise aussi un autre cache disque qui n'a pas besoin d'être très gros non plus). Bref au lieu de stocker des tuiles 256x256, stocker des tuiles 512x512 serait plus optimal, même si le serveur continue de retourner aux clients des tuiles 256x256 (quarts d'image). Si cela ne marche pas (limite de CPU atteinte), un tuning du système de fichiers pour étendre le taux entre la taille de la table des inodes et la taille du volume pourrait être utile, afin de déterminer la bonne taille minimale du système de fichiers à utiliser pour le cache de tuiles. (Dans l'état actuel, ce cache de tuiles précalculées me semble très largement surdimensionné en taille totale de volume, et le serveur semble donc taillé déjà pour accueillir de nouvelles couches de rendu alternatif ; réduire ce système de fichiers à ce qui est suffisant permettrait même des optimisations en terme d'I/O, avec une taille plus réduite de la table d'inodes et de la bitmap d'allocation. D'autres optimisations sont encore possibles : utilisez-vous une config RAID5 pour la sécurité du cache ? Cela ne semble pas utile, aucune de ces données n'est critique, il me semble que la vraie limite sur les iops ne peut être résolue qu'en multipliant le nombre de disques dans la grappe et en utilisant des stripes assez petits pour bien équilibrer les charges entre les disques; des stripes de 4 ou 8Ko seraient suffisants pour les tuiles, plutôt que les classiques stripes de 64Ko, sachant que les tuiles PNG 256x256 ont une taille voisine de 16Ko ; cependant en quadruplant leur surface elles monteraient autour de 64Ko et les stripes monteraient à 16Ko aussi de façon quasi optimale). Reste alors à multiplier les disques en parallèle (pas nécessairement en RAID, on peut aussi les distribuer par un hachage sur une collection de petits systèmes de fichiers chacun sur des disques différents ; le reste des disques pourra servir à faire des volumes RAID pour les données critiques à préserver, mais pas pour les caches de tuiles sur disque, surtout qu'il y a de la marge en plus dans le cache en mémoire avant d'accéder à ces disques ; des baies RAID à 16 disques ne sont pas difficiles à trouver et monter, sur chacun on met un petit bout du cache de tuiles, et un processeur dédié pour les calculer en local, le reste est partagé; et on peut alors utiliser tout le reste des disques pour des tonnes d'autres volumes précieux sur divers agencements RAID entre les disques, par exemple pour la base de données qui prend un temps fou à charger, ou pour les services d'exports de données, les backups systèmes ou pour expérimenter des VMs supplémentaires) Le 9 février 2013 18:54, Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.fr a écrit : Ce système de proxy/cache c'est ce que nous avons mis en place sur 2 de nos serveurs OSM-FR, la version monde tourne dans une VM et n'utilise que 512Mo de RAM (le reste sera utilisé par le cache disque), et 140Go de disque pour la DB. Voici ses stats: http://munin.openstreetmap.fr/osm11.free.org/osm103.openstreetmap.fr/index.html ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
[OSM-talk-fr] [forum-osm-fr] Ouverture des inscriptions en ligne pour SOTM-FR 2013
Le message suivant de : ## Voilà, les inscriptions sont ouvertes sur eventbrite: http://sotmfr2013.eventbrite.fr/ Une participation aux frais d'organisation de 30 euros est demandée, elle inclu les petits-déjeuner et les pique-nique de samedi et dimanche, ainsi que les goodies. Pour samedi soir, un diner optionnel est organisé. Vous pouvez régler par carte bancaire sur le site eventbrite ou par chèque, voir sur place (avec un supplément de 5 euros). a été posté sur le forum http://forum.openstreetmap.fr/viewtopic.php?f=6t=500 Une réponse par mail sur l'adresse d'expédition n'arrivera nulle part Une réponse à la liste ne sera pas transmise au forum, ce qui n'empêche pas une concertation sur la liste avant de recopier la/les meilleures réponses sur le forum. Notez qu'il n'est pas necessaire d'avoir un compte sur le forum pour répondre. -- Les questions sur ce robot de transfert forum-liste peuvent être posées à sylvainaletuffe.org ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Mise en place d'un miroir OSM
A part le fait que tu es complètement hors sujet dans ce fil de discussion, je suppose que tu t'es monté ton propre serveur de tuiles pour tester. Tu peux nous dire les perfs que tu obtiens pour comparer ? Le dimanche 10 février 2013 à 12:49 +0100, Philippe Verdy a écrit : Une remarque au sujet de ces stats : l'utilisation des inodes à 30% dépasse largement l'utilisation du volume en terme d'espace (voisin de 8%), cela suggère que les tuiles stockées sont 4 fois trop petites et que le serveur de tuiles devrait soir retourner des tuiles 4 fois plus grandes en surface, soit stocker des tuiles 4 fois plus grandes en surface, quitte à faire un split à la volée (et vu l'usage de la CPU ce complément de travail ne devrait pas lui demander beaucoup d'effort, surtout si le redécoupage à la demande utilise aussi un autre cache disque qui n'a pas besoin d'être très gros non plus). Bref au lieu de stocker des tuiles 256x256, stocker des tuiles 512x512 serait plus optimal, même si le serveur continue de retourner aux clients des tuiles 256x256 (quarts d'image). Si cela ne marche pas (limite de CPU atteinte), un tuning du système de fichiers pour étendre le taux entre la taille de la table des inodes et la taille du volume pourrait être utile, afin de déterminer la bonne taille minimale du système de fichiers à utiliser pour le cache de tuiles. (Dans l'état actuel, ce cache de tuiles précalculées me semble très largement surdimensionné en taille totale de volume, et le serveur semble donc taillé déjà pour accueillir de nouvelles couches de rendu alternatif ; réduire ce système de fichiers à ce qui est suffisant permettrait même des optimisations en terme d'I/O, avec une taille plus réduite de la table d'inodes et de la bitmap d'allocation. D'autres optimisations sont encore possibles : utilisez-vous une config RAID5 pour la sécurité du cache ? Cela ne semble pas utile, aucune de ces données n'est critique, il me semble que la vraie limite sur les iops ne peut être résolue qu'en multipliant le nombre de disques dans la grappe et en utilisant des stripes assez petits pour bien équilibrer les charges entre les disques; des stripes de 4 ou 8Ko seraient suffisants pour les tuiles, plutôt que les classiques stripes de 64Ko, sachant que les tuiles PNG 256x256 ont une taille voisine de 16Ko ; cependant en quadruplant leur surface elles monteraient autour de 64Ko et les stripes monteraient à 16Ko aussi de façon quasi optimale). Reste alors à multiplier les disques en parallèle (pas nécessairement en RAID, on peut aussi les distribuer par un hachage sur une collection de petits systèmes de fichiers chacun sur des disques différents ; le reste des disques pourra servir à faire des volumes RAID pour les données critiques à préserver, mais pas pour les caches de tuiles sur disque, surtout qu'il y a de la marge en plus dans le cache en mémoire avant d'accéder à ces disques ; des baies RAID à 16 disques ne sont pas difficiles à trouver et monter, sur chacun on met un petit bout du cache de tuiles, et un processeur dédié pour les calculer en local, le reste est partagé; et on peut alors utiliser tout le reste des disques pour des tonnes d'autres volumes précieux sur divers agencements RAID entre les disques, par exemple pour la base de données qui prend un temps fou à charger, ou pour les services d'exports de données, les backups systèmes ou pour expérimenter des VMs supplémentaires) Le 9 février 2013 18:54, Christian Quest cqu...@openstreetmap.fr a écrit : Ce système de proxy/cache c'est ce que nous avons mis en place sur 2 de nos serveurs OSM-FR, la version monde tourne dans une VM et n'utilise que 512Mo de RAM (le reste sera utilisé par le cache disque), et 140Go de disque pour la DB. Voici ses stats: http://munin.openstreetmap.fr/osm11.free.org/osm103.openstreetmap.fr/index.html ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr -- Christophe Merlet (RedFox) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
[OSM-talk-fr] Asso OSM-FR : Je VEUX payer ma cotise !
Bonsoir, derrière l'objet un rien provocateur, se cache le besoin de connaître certaines infos sur l'asso. En particulier, les coordonnées du Trésorier et les références du compte bancaire. Comme ça les adhérents n'auront plus besoin de râler, pourront faire des virements et le Trésorier sera tout content de n'avoir pas à gérer des piles de chèques, hein Jeff ? Je n'ai rien trouvé sur les pages relatives à l'asso, en partant de là : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_France/OSM-FR mais j'ai peut-être mal cherché. Alors, comment que je paye ma cotise ? Amitiés, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Asso OSM-FR : Je VEUX payer ma cotise !
Et voila :) http://openstreetmap.fr/adherer Le 10 février 2013 20:37, Jean-Francois Nifenecker jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net a écrit : Bonsoir, derrière l'objet un rien provocateur, se cache le besoin de connaître certaines infos sur l'asso. En particulier, les coordonnées du Trésorier et les références du compte bancaire. Comme ça les adhérents n'auront plus besoin de râler, pourront faire des virements et le Trésorier sera tout content de n'avoir pas à gérer des piles de chèques, hein Jeff ? Je n'ai rien trouvé sur les pages relatives à l'asso, en partant de là : http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/**wiki/WikiProject_France/OSM-FRhttp://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_France/OSM-FR mais j'ai peut-être mal cherché. Alors, comment que je paye ma cotise ? Amitiés, -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux __**_ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-frhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Asso OSM-FR : Je VEUX payer ma cotise !
Le 10/02/2013 20:47, Etienne Trimaille a écrit : Et voila :) http://openstreetmap.fr/adherer :-)) -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Asso OSM-FR : Je VEUX payer ma cotise !
Le 10/02/2013 20:47, Etienne Trimaille a écrit : Et voila :) http://openstreetmap.fr/adherer ok, mais je ne trouve pas les coordonnées bancaires :-P Ce serait bien de pouvoir faire des virements. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Asso OSM-FR : Je VEUX payer ma cotise !
Ne te réjouis pas trop vite, je viens de voir qu'il n'y avait pas le rib, mais que les coordonnées de Jeff ;-) 2013/2/10 Jean-Francois Nifenecker jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net Le 10/02/2013 20:47, Etienne Trimaille a écrit : Et voila :) http://openstreetmap.fr/**adherer http://openstreetmap.fr/adherer :-)) -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux __**_ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-frhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Asso OSM-FR : Je VEUX payer ma cotise !
Le 10/02/2013 20:56, Etienne Trimaille a écrit : Ne te réjouis pas trop vite, je viens de voir qu'il n'y avait pas le rib, mais que les coordonnées de Jeff ;-) hé hé... -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Asso OSM-FR : Je VEUX payer ma cotise !
Comme j'ai donné une mauvaise réponse, je me dois de rectifier : http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-fr/2012-February/040851.html PDF en bas de la page :) Le 10 février 2013 20:58, Jean-Francois Nifenecker jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net a écrit : Le 10/02/2013 20:56, Etienne Trimaille a écrit : Ne te réjouis pas trop vite, je viens de voir qu'il n'y avait pas le rib, mais que les coordonnées de Jeff ;-) hé hé... -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux __**_ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-frhttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Asso OSM-FR : Je VEUX payer ma cotise !
Le 10/02/2013 21:05, Etienne Trimaille a écrit : Comme j'ai donné une mauvaise réponse, je me dois de rectifier : http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-fr/2012-February/040851.html PDF en bas de la page :) \o/ - sur le site ? -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Import SIG-AEV
Bonsoir, Le 09/02/2013 22:29, Christian Quest a écrit : Pas d'objection pour moi. J'ai les shapefiles d'origine pour regarde si ça vaut le coup et comment intégrer ça à l'existant... Le 9 février 2013 22:05, Vincent de Chateau-Thierry v...@laposte.net a écrit : J'ai reconstitué le jeu de données issu des 2 changesets. Je procèderai au revert (donc à l'effacement des données) demain soir, si pas d'objection. Les données ont été effacées : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14986567 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14986799 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14987004 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14987207 vincent ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Asso OSM-FR : Je VEUX payer ma cotise !
Avant de publier ce RIB, t'es-tu assuré que ce compte ne permettait pas les virements en sens inverse (depuis ce compte vers un tiers) ? Sinon c'est risqué de publier ce RIB comme ça sur Internet ! A voir avec le Crédit Coopératif, car ce genre de compte publié pour recevoir de l'argent devrait être à part du compte principal (sécurisé et gardé secret) que l'asso utilise pour ses propres paiements. Le 10 février 2013 22:33, Olivier Griffet oliviergriffetli...@gmail.com a écrit : Bonjour à toutes et à tous. @Jean-Francois Nifenecker Voici en pièce-jointe le PDF du RIB ( Coordonnées de la banque de l'Association OpenStreetMap France ). ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Mise en place d'un miroir OSM
Le 10 février 2013 13:44, Christophe Merlet red...@redfoxcenter.org a écrit : A part le fait que tu es complètement hors sujet dans ce fil de discussion, je suppose que tu t'es monté ton propre serveur de tuiles pour tester. Tu peux nous dire les perfs que tu obtiens pour comparer ? Usage purement local et certainement pas comparable en matière de matériel. Je n'ai tout bonnement pas besoin des mêmes performances, le nombre de requêtes à traiter est ridicule en comparaison. Au delà de ça, vous devez savoir comment optimiser le stockage sur vos serveurs, il n'y a de toute façon pas d'urgence de changer quelque chose au vu des ressources utilisées. Mais puisque vous avez donné ces stats pour répondre à la demande de quelqu'un pour lui suggérer de monter un serveur de tuiles, ces stats ne sont utiles que pour montrer les ressources réellement nécessaires. Bref ma réponse restait bien DANS le sujet. Si ce n'est pas le cas, alors même la réponse donnée avant moi au sujet de ces statistiques est également hors sujet. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Mise en place d'un miroir OSM
En plus mon serveur local n'a pas de table d'inodes puisque son stockage est sous Windows. Le tuning est tout à fait différent, même si c'est du RAID (que j'ai monté en stripes de 64 Ko classiques). Je n'ai pas encore tenté d'augmenter la taille des tuiles stockées (cela demanderait une modif du serveur pour qu'il en retourne des fragments de 256x256 au lieu de la tuile stockée 512x512, et une autre modif du code générant ces tuiles stockées). Ce n'est pas ridicule : rien que pour gérer jusqu'au niveau 12 les tuiles du monde entier, on monte très vite en nombre de fichiers, et cela impose une charge importange sur le système de fichiers si on stocke tout dans le même dossier cache. Répartir les fichiers sur des dossiers multiples aide beaucoup l'OS à gérer les modifications et recherches rapides dans ce dossier (on sait que NTFS devient particulièrement lent à partir du moment où on met plus de 2000 fichiers dans un même dossier, mais on a aussi le même problème avec FAT pour les recherches où c'est le temps d'accès qui devient de plus en plus long, avec une charge supplémentaire sur la taille du cache en mémoire, sans compter aussi des problème de verrous exclusifs lors des modifs par des processus ou threads concurrents). Je n'ai aucune idée de la façon dont vous organisez le stockage sur votre serveur, en terme d'organisation des fichiers. D'une façon générale les système de cache de stockage cherchent à diviser les fichiers en de nombreuses sous-collections (thème déjà abordé concernant le cache JTiles intégré à JOSM qui souffre sévèrement de ce problème de manque d'organisation et qui impose une charge trop importante à l'OS hôte). Ces solutions se retrouvent dans tout bon navigateur Internet (même l'installation la plus simple d'IE crée un cache divisé en au moins 4 ou 5 sous-dossiers avec une distribution pseudo-aléatoire des contenus entre les sous-dossiers ; on a la même solution dans le cache de déploiement Java, et dans les caches des autres navigateurs comme Firefox, Chrome, Opera, ou dans les caches de proxy frontaux comme Squid... Ca demande un peu de tuning si on veut maintenir des collections importantes de fichiers). Le 11 février 2013 04:53, Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr a écrit : Le 10 février 2013 13:44, Christophe Merlet red...@redfoxcenter.org a écrit : A part le fait que tu es complètement hors sujet dans ce fil de discussion, je suppose que tu t'es monté ton propre serveur de tuiles pour tester. Tu peux nous dire les perfs que tu obtiens pour comparer ? Usage purement local et certainement pas comparable en matière de matériel. Je n'ai tout bonnement pas besoin des mêmes performances, le nombre de requêtes à traiter est ridicule en comparaison. Au delà de ça, vous devez savoir comment optimiser le stockage sur vos serveurs, il n'y a de toute façon pas d'urgence de changer quelque chose au vu des ressources utilisées. Mais puisque vous avez donné ces stats pour répondre à la demande de quelqu'un pour lui suggérer de monter un serveur de tuiles, ces stats ne sont utiles que pour montrer les ressources réellement nécessaires. Bref ma réponse restait bien DANS le sujet. Si ce n'est pas le cas, alors même la réponse donnée avant moi au sujet de ces statistiques est également hors sujet. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Asso OSM-FR : Je VEUX payer ma cotise !
N'ayant jamais eu d'accès en ligne à la banque il est difficile pour moi de suivre les virements et d'actualiser Galette. c'est pour cela que je n'ai pas diffusé le RIB tant que je n'avais d'accès pour suivre les mouvements. Jeff Le dimanche 10 février 2013 à 20:55 +0100, Jean-Francois Nifenecker a écrit : Le 10/02/2013 20:47, Etienne Trimaille a écrit : Et voila :) http://openstreetmap.fr/adherer ok, mais je ne trouve pas les coordonnées bancaires :-P Ce serait bien de pouvoir faire des virements. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
[OSM-talk-fr] D'une usine a stub proposed
Bonjour, Je vous parle à propos de http://osm.org/go/0ApGprud2--, l'endroit nommé La Cartonnerie. Voici comment cet endroit était lorsque la google car y est passe : http://goo.gl/maps/XYSid Et voici comment l'endroit est en réalité aujourd'hui : http://flic.kr/p/dTZ5M1 ! J'ai passé les landuses de construction à brownfield. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14954632 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Brownfield Cependant, on voit, si on parcourt les données de la carte, que ce terrain, qui parait constitué d'un seul bloc, est en fait constitué de 4 parcelles - merci au cadastre, je suppose. Ces parcelles n'ont aucune réalité sur le terrain ; de plus, le nom Cartonnerie n'est attaché sur la carte qu'à une seule de ces parcelles, alors qu'il concerne tout le terrain. Je m'étais dit que pour ce cas j'allais constituer ma PREMIÈRE RELATION, pour regrouper toutes ces parcelles ! Ne sachant trop que mettre comme type de relation, je subbodore que site http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Site#Examples_of_sitesest celle qui va bien, mais malheureusement, c'est une Proposed Feature... ? Déjà que brownfleld était une page stub, ce qui m'a bien perturbé, si en pllus j'utilise une proposed feature... j'aurai donc tagué un espace vide en Stub Proposed Feature comme relation ??? Que faire, que penser, que dire ? Merci. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-talk-fr] D'une usine a stub proposed
Bonjour, Je te propose une solution plus simple: - Tu regroupes les polygones (Outils/Joindre les zones superposées (Maj-J). - Tu le nettoies un peu (nœuds inutiles, ajuster les bords, ...) - et tu supprimes ou ajoute les tags qui vont bien sur le polygone. Ou alors, tu supprimes ce qui n'existe plus. Et tu ajoutes ce qui y est maintenant. A+ Cedric Le 11/02/2013 08:38, Ista Pouss a écrit : Bonjour, Je vous parle à propos de http://osm.org/go/0ApGprud2--, l'endroit nommé La Cartonnerie. Voici comment cet endroit était lorsque la google car y est passe : http://goo.gl/maps/XYSid Et voici comment l'endroit est en réalité aujourd'hui : http://flic.kr/p/dTZ5M1 ! J'ai passé les landuses de construction à brownfield. http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14954632 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Brownfield Cependant, on voit, si on parcourt les données de la carte, que ce terrain, qui parait constitué d'un seul bloc, est en fait constitué de 4 parcelles - merci au cadastre, je suppose. Ces parcelles n'ont aucune réalité sur le terrain ; de plus, le nom Cartonnerie n'est attaché sur la carte qu'à une seule de ces parcelles, alors qu'il concerne tout le terrain. Je m'étais dit que pour ce cas j'allais constituer ma PREMIÈRE RELATION, pour regrouper toutes ces parcelles ! Ne sachant trop que mettre comme type de relation, je subbodore que site http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Site#Examples_of_sites est celle qui va bien, mais malheureusement, c'est une Proposed Feature... ? Déjà que brownfleld était une page stub, ce qui m'a bien perturbé, si en pllus j'utilise une proposed feature... j'aurai donc tagué un espace vide en Stub Proposed Feature comme relation ??? Que faire, que penser, que dire ? Merci. ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr ___ Talk-fr mailing list Talk-fr@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
Re: [OSM-ja] Post Import Cleanup of KSJ2 data?
Hi, Thank you for mentioning, cleaning KSJ2 would be great as the other imports. Unfortunately, Bing coverage is not perfect at Japan. So it seems difficult to check all the waterlines. (rivers on mountain, culverts underground...) But we have permission to trace JP government data (Basic Map, 基盤地図情報). It covers whole Japan area. We could survey it out using the data as clues. [japanese] いいだです。 過去に行われた河川インポートのお掃除ですが、確かに、 インポートされたデータに付与されている layerタグは -1 ~ -3の値が入ってることが多いですね。 重複している河川も散見されますので、 指摘していただいているとおり修正したほうがよいデータだな、と思っています。 Bingのカバー範囲外であったり、 暗渠になっていて確認できないこともしばしばだと思いますので、 基盤地図情報と実地調査で調査することも視野に入れるのがいいのかな、って思っています。 修正は、リストアップしていただいたページのリンクから JOSMを起動させることもできますし、 また、JOSMの「OSMミラーからダウンロード」の機能を使って 河川だけをダウンロードすると、かなり効率よく編集することができます。 プラグインの mirrored_downloadを適用して項目追加、 XAPIクエリの項目に [waterway=*] と入力してダウンロードです。 エラー箇所が2600超ある状態なので気長な編集になると思いますが、 ポチポチ直して整えたいものですね。 ついでに、経路チェック用のスクリプトwaycheck20.pl、便利そうです。 Yahoo/ALPSデータのインポート後チェックとか、 高速道路の接続チェックにも使えないかな。。。 2013/2/1 malenki osm_talk...@malenki.ch: Hi, since I accidentially discovered several intersecting waterways in Japan I had a deeper look into the data. I looked for intersections of ways tagged with waterway=canal waterway=drain waterway=ditch waterway=stream waterway=river with the tool waycheck20.pl¹. On the script I disabled not matching for layers since all the imported waterways I checked had generally a layer= tag from -1 to -3 on them regardless the reality (compared with Bing). The waterways I extracted from japan.osm.pbf at download.geofabrik.de using osmfilter². The result with 2670 intersections you can find here³. A cleanup by the importers would be nice. It also would be interesting to check the other parts of the import but I leave that to other people. :) An updated check I will only deliver on request since the script is quite slow. As you can see on bottom of the result page it took more then 80 hours to run. I put the text above also to the matching wiki page: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue/Japan_KSJ2_Import#Post_Import_Cleanup Best regards Thomas ¹ http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=WayCheckaction=editsection=30 ² http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Osmfilter ³ http://malenki.ch/OSM/out_ignore_layer_no_riverbanks.html ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja -- Satoshi IIDA mail: nyamp...@gmail.com twitter: @nyampire ___ Talk-ja mailing list Talk-ja@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ja
Re: [Talk-GB] Rights of way - LAs and OS
On 6 February 2013 21:43, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote: In regards to public rights of way and the relationship between Local Authorities and Ordnance Survey, see my recent blog post: http://opendatauser.posterous.com/loacal-authorities-in-bed-with-the-ordnance-s I would be interested if anyone with knowledge of the legal system has an answer to the question posed in the A ray of hope? section. If not, I might just have to get in touch with Defra. I've done a bit of digging online. It seems that there are two ways the Definitive Map and Statement can get changed: 1/ Via a confirmed Definitive Map Modification Order, which is designed to correct the map, and cannot introduce new rights of way that don't already exist or extinguish existing rights of way that do. These orders are solely about correcting errors and omissions in the map. 2/ Via a Public Path Order which may create, divert or extinguish a Right of Way. Once such an order has been confirmed a separate Legal Event Modification Order [1] is then required to allow the Definitive Map to be updated. The legal basis for the list of Prescribed Organisations in the document linked from the blog post appears to come from three Statutory Instruments (a type of specific secondary legislation, which some Acts give Ministers the power to issue to set out the finer detail of specific things): 1/ The Town and Country Planning (Public Path Orders) Regulations 1993 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1993/10/contents/made 2/ The Public Path Orders Regulations 1993 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1993/11/contents/made 3/ The Wildlife and Countryside (Definitive Maps and Statements) Regulations 1993 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1993/12/contents/made Each of these Regulations has a Schedule (essentially an appendix) that sets out a list of bodies that need to be served with notice of any Public Path or Modification Orders. In order to get OSM (or maybe a UK lcoal chapter / PRoW special interest group) added to that list, I think we would need to convince the Environment Secretary to re-issue an updated version of the Regulations. However, those lists seem to be more about specifying bodies that need to be consulted about proposed changes to the PRoW network so they have the ability to comment on / object to them, rather than being a list of bodies that need to be sent the final versions of confirmed orders to be able to use the information to update their records. It's the latter use that I presume OSM mappers would be more interested in. Ideally, what we might want to do is have the clause in each of the three regulations that reads something like After a public path order has been confirmed the authority shall send a copy of it as confirmed to the Ordnance Survey. altered so that OpenStreetMap (or some UK / PRoW sub-group / chapter) is listed alongside Ordnance Survey. Or, maybe better still, we could suggest that the regulations be changed to require LAs to publish all confirmed orders online under the Open Government Licence. Then (a) it's a level playing field for anyone who wants to use the information, and (b) the use of the OGL means that the copyright situation is clear. Hope that helps, Robert. [1] http://www.iprow.co.uk/gpg/index.php/Legal_Event_Orders -- Robert Whittaker ___ Talk-GB mailing list Talk-GB@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
Re: [Talk-us] Changeset 14828923 review
On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:20 AM, stevea stevea...@softworkers.com wrote: ** ... Marsland Street (way 12700863) has many extraneous tags which are nonsense and can/should be removed: access, area, bridge, cutting, embankment, junction, oneway and tunnel, if not more. ... I believe the presence of all these tags is the user clicking through all the tabs in Potlatch2 and filling changing them from unset to whatever seems to make sense for them. By convention, we know that streets are assumed to be two-way and there is no need to add the oneway=no tag, but now that I look at P2, there's no indication of this and even if you jump to the wiki, it doesn't really give any suggestion to omit the oneway tag for two-way streets. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:oneway For access restrictions, there's this complicated page which lists defaults values by country. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_tags_for_routing/Access-Restrictions#United_States_of_America I wouldn't expect a new mapper to know that. I can't honestly decide if this is a real noob (no offense to noobs, I enjoy helping noobs...) or somebody bent on subtle but foolish vandalism. ... I'd lean toward a new mapper that needs guidance here. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
Out of curiosity, is asking someone to leave the project something that we have done before? I'm wondering what kind of precedents we've set for ourself. I am only vaguely familiar with the circumstances around this user being removed from the list, so I'm curious about the decision to ban someone from the list while still allowing him or her to make edits, even though they can no longer participate in public discourse. I'm certainly not trying to suggest that it was the wrong decision, just mentioning my curiosity. On Feb 10, 2013 12:31 AM, stevea stevea...@softworkers.com wrote: Russ, I second your vote/motion, not that anybody called for a second, or even that I am able to offer it. What I AM able to do is be civil and use the talk-us list, as it is our nationwide forum to discuss. There are plenty of other consensus understandings that might be loosely called rules which make up the fabric of OSM as a community. NE2 has again proven that he is either unwilling or unable to abide by those. Consequently, I think we should inform him that serious discussion of permanently banning him from OSM (this thread) is underway, and his behavior can either change for the better, or he can count on eventually being permanently banned. He has had plenty of opportunities to do so, and so I am not optimistic he will be around much longer. But if the community wants him, that can emerge as a consensus as well. His better (than nothing) edits are in a clear minority compared to the usual messes he makes. He DOES, for better or worse, stir controversy, which is why we discuss, which is part of the community. If, for that reason alone (that he is controversial), there are those who do not wish to ban him, speak up now, as you may (may) be able to make the case that we need somebody like him as an example of what to do with difficult contributors. I think it is unanimous that he is that, at least. I wouldn't miss him if he were gone, either. SteveA California He's banned from (at least) this list. Consequently, you cannot expect him to discuss this issue here. We had a discussion of whether to ban him from editing in the past, which never really got resolved. It just died out. Yes, he's done a lot of editing, and yes, some of his edits have been fruitful, but no, some of his edits have been less than helpful. I wouldn't miss him if he were gone. I vote, not that anybody called for a vote, to ask him to leave. -russ __**_ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ushttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
I don't agree. NE2’s edits, most of all the route relations, are enormously valuable to OSM in the US. I'm not aware of any precedent for banning a user like this, and I'm not eager to see one set. -mike. --- michal migurski http://mike.teczno.com On Feb 9, 2013, at 9:30 PM, stevea stevea...@softworkers.com wrote: Russ, I second your vote/motion, not that anybody called for a second, or even that I am able to offer it. What I AM able to do is be civil and use the talk-us list, as it is our nationwide forum to discuss. There are plenty of other consensus understandings that might be loosely called rules which make up the fabric of OSM as a community. NE2 has again proven that he is either unwilling or unable to abide by those. Consequently, I think we should inform him that serious discussion of permanently banning him from OSM (this thread) is underway, and his behavior can either change for the better, or he can count on eventually being permanently banned. He has had plenty of opportunities to do so, and so I am not optimistic he will be around much longer. But if the community wants him, that can emerge as a consensus as well. His better (than nothing) edits are in a clear minority compared to the usual messes he makes. He DOES, for better or worse, stir controversy, which is why we discuss, which is part of the community. If, for that reason alone (that he is controversial), there are those who do not wish to ban him, speak up now, as you may (may) be able to make the case that we need somebody like him as an example of what to do with difficult contributors. I think it is unanimous that he is that, at least. I wouldn't miss him if he were gone, either. SteveA California He's banned from (at least) this list. Consequently, you cannot expect him to discuss this issue here. We had a discussion of whether to ban him from editing in the past, which never really got resolved. It just died out. Yes, he's done a lot of editing, and yes, some of his edits have been fruitful, but no, some of his edits have been less than helpful. I wouldn't miss him if he were gone. I vote, not that anybody called for a vote, to ask him to leave. -russ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
On 2/10/13 8:56 AM, Michal Migurski wrote: I don't agree. NE2’s edits, most of all the route relations, are enormously valuable to OSM in the US. I'm not aware of any precedent for banning a user like this, and I'm not eager to see one set. i'm with mike. while i, like many, have butted heads with NE2 in the past and no doubt will do so in the future, he has made a lot of valuable contributions. in this particular case, the turn restriction has a direct bearing on routing and so fits in with something he has been working hard at. his main weaknesses are twofold: 1) he armchair maps a lot and doesn't play well with local mappers 2) related to the latter, he seems to be fairly antisocial in his interactions with others in the community. the oft impersonal nature of email doesn't help much with this. he has gotten better over the past several years, but i suspect he still doesn't really connect to the rest of us as people rather than usernames and handles. i find myself wishing he would attend an SOTM US or something like that, not because of the talks, but for the opportunity to sit down with a bunch of committed mappers over a couple of beers. the issue of any sort of temporary or permanent ban defaults, i believe, in the hands of the DWG (Data Working Group), and i understand that they haven't really ever been given a clear cut case in one of these disputes. richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
This issue has come up before and the problem is that it falls through the cracks of OSM's governing bodies. The DWG often handles issues of vandalism or copyright violation, but NE2's edits are neither obvious vandalism, nor direct copyright violations as far as anyone can tell. But this type of behavior has been identified as damaging to the community on numerous occasions and in several ways. The issue here is that unlike others, NE2's behavior always rides a more delicate line. Nonetheless, I think it's time we step up as a community and request OSMF assistance on this issue. - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 8:56 AM, Michal Migurski m...@teczno.com wrote: I don't agree. NE2’s edits, most of all the route relations, are enormously valuable to OSM in the US. I'm not aware of any precedent for banning a user like this, and I'm not eager to see one set. Mike, Your information on NE2 is grossly inaccurate. NE2 makes very few positive edits, and many, many destructive ones, as well as previous threats to make more edits that conform with his (and only his) vision of the world. I realize that from a numerical standpoint, it may seem like he is a positive contributor, but this is due to our general acceptance of people even in the face of disagreement. But in NE2's case, he is a bully, and having a bully does not serve the community well. Regarding precedent, this would not be the first person that the OSMF has had to take action on. Others have been banned, but NE2's particular brand of edit has always ridden the line, as he's not explicitly doing anything illegal (ie not copyright violation). But OSM is not his personal playground, and his view that this project is his sandbox to impose his will on (reality and community consensus be damned) is just unacceptable. It's understandable that if you are not familiar with NE2's behavior first hand, that you would see this as a a misunderstanding, but NE2's behavior has been damaging to the project for so long that we simply have no choice but to take actions to protect the project's cohesiveness. - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
I'm familiar with his work and have run afoul of his views in the past, most recently when I performed a large scale edit to US route relation tags, some of which he did not agree with. I don't know if any were reverted. Nevertheless, I don't see the value in running him out on a rail without more actual evidence of malice, detailed precedents from other bans, and some expectation that the OSMF could help here. These days I'm happier with NE2 than I am with the foundation, believe it or not. -mike. --- michal migurski http://mike.teczno.com On Feb 10, 2013, at 8:53 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 8:56 AM, Michal Migurski m...@teczno.com wrote: I don't agree. NE2’s edits, most of all the route relations, are enormously valuable to OSM in the US. I'm not aware of any precedent for banning a user like this, and I'm not eager to see one set. Mike, Your information on NE2 is grossly inaccurate. NE2 makes very few positive edits, and many, many destructive ones, as well as previous threats to make more edits that conform with his (and only his) vision of the world. I realize that from a numerical standpoint, it may seem like he is a positive contributor, but this is due to our general acceptance of people even in the face of disagreement. But in NE2's case, he is a bully, and having a bully does not serve the community well. Regarding precedent, this would not be the first person that the OSMF has had to take action on. Others have been banned, but NE2's particular brand of edit has always ridden the line, as he's not explicitly doing anything illegal (ie not copyright violation). But OSM is not his personal playground, and his view that this project is his sandbox to impose his will on (reality and community consensus be damned) is just unacceptable. It's understandable that if you are not familiar with NE2's behavior first hand, that you would see this as a a misunderstanding, but NE2's behavior has been damaging to the project for so long that we simply have no choice but to take actions to protect the project's cohesiveness. - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
+ 4 to what Mike said. What is the precedent from other bans? Is there a wiki page of bannination? Randy Randal Hale, GISP North River Geographic Systems, Inc http://www.northrivergeographic.com 423.653.3611 rjh...@northrivergeographic.com twitter:rjhale http://about.me/rjhale On 02/10/2013 11:04 AM, Michal Migurski wrote: I'm familiar with his work and have run afoul of his views in the past, most recently when I performed a large scale edit to US route relation tags, some of which he did not agree with. I don't know if any were reverted. Nevertheless, I don't see the value in running him out on a rail without more actual evidence of malice, detailed precedents from other bans, and some expectation that the OSMF could help here. These days I'm happier with NE2 than I am with the foundation, believe it or not. -mike. --- michal migurski http://mike.teczno.com On Feb 10, 2013, at 8:53 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 8:56 AM, Michal Migurski m...@teczno.com wrote: I don't agree. NE2’s edits, most of all the route relations, are enormously valuable to OSM in the US. I'm not aware of any precedent for banning a user like this, and I'm not eager to see one set. Mike, Your information on NE2 is grossly inaccurate. NE2 makes very few positive edits, and many, many destructive ones, as well as previous threats to make more edits that conform with his (and only his) vision of the world. I realize that from a numerical standpoint, it may seem like he is a positive contributor, but this is due to our general acceptance of people even in the face of disagreement. But in NE2's case, he is a bully, and having a bully does not serve the community well. Regarding precedent, this would not be the first person that the OSMF has had to take action on. Others have been banned, but NE2's particular brand of edit has always ridden the line, as he's not explicitly doing anything illegal (ie not copyright violation). But OSM is not his personal playground, and his view that this project is his sandbox to impose his will on (reality and community consensus be damned) is just unacceptable. It's understandable that if you are not familiar with NE2's behavior first hand, that you would see this as a a misunderstanding, but NE2's behavior has been damaging to the project for so long that we simply have no choice but to take actions to protect the project's cohesiveness. - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
I would suggest inviting him back on the mailing lists, with the knowledge that being banned from the mailing lists means being banned from OSM. This situation where he is allowed to edit, but he isn't allowed to join the mailing lists to discuss his edits, is an utter failure. On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 12:30 AM, stevea stevea...@softworkers.com wrote: Russ, I second your vote/motion, not that anybody called for a second, or even that I am able to offer it. What I AM able to do is be civil and use the talk-us list, as it is our nationwide forum to discuss. There are plenty of other consensus understandings that might be loosely called rules which make up the fabric of OSM as a community. NE2 has again proven that he is either unwilling or unable to abide by those. Consequently, I think we should inform him that serious discussion of permanently banning him from OSM (this thread) is underway, and his behavior can either change for the better, or he can count on eventually being permanently banned. He has had plenty of opportunities to do so, and so I am not optimistic he will be around much longer. But if the community wants him, that can emerge as a consensus as well. His better (than nothing) edits are in a clear minority compared to the usual messes he makes. He DOES, for better or worse, stir controversy, which is why we discuss, which is part of the community. If, for that reason alone (that he is controversial), there are those who do not wish to ban him, speak up now, as you may (may) be able to make the case that we need somebody like him as an example of what to do with difficult contributors. I think it is unanimous that he is that, at least. I wouldn't miss him if he were gone, either. SteveA California He's banned from (at least) this list. Consequently, you cannot expect him to discuss this issue here. We had a discussion of whether to ban him from editing in the past, which never really got resolved. It just died out. Yes, he's done a lot of editing, and yes, some of his edits have been fruitful, but no, some of his edits have been less than helpful. I wouldn't miss him if he were gone. I vote, not that anybody called for a vote, to ask him to leave. -russ ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
Michal Migurski writes: I'm familiar with his work and have run afoul of his views in the past, most recently when I performed a large scale edit to US route relation tags, some of which he did not agree with. I don't know if any were reverted. Nevertheless, I don't see the value in running him out on a rail without more actual evidence of malice, detailed precedents from other bans, and some expectation that the OSMF could help here. These days I'm happier with NE2 than I am with the foundation, believe it or not. His malice is encapsulated in his inability to work with other people. For example, I dislike a particular global modification to my work that he has made. I know that he has more spare time than me to pursue his ideas, and so I haven't bothered to fighting on it, because I know he will fight me, and I know he will win. So I have resigned myself to allowing OSM to be a little bit worse because of him. How many other people have made the same decision? How much worse is OSM because of NE2? Does this outweigh his positive accomplishments? -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: His malice is encapsulated in his inability to work with other people. Furthermore, he makes mass edits. There are not edits that one can accomplish simply by hand. He is doing many thousands of edits, and we have evidence that this must be automated. He ignores local mappers, local edits, and insists that he's right (with edits) even when told by on the ground mappers that he's wrong). So what we have is someone running around, bullying the mappers, and running bots on the system. For example, I dislike a particular global modification to my work that he has made. I know that he has more spare time than me to pursue his ideas, and so I haven't bothered to fighting on it, because I know he will fight me, and I know he will win. So I have resigned myself to allowing OSM to be a little bit worse because of him. How many other people have made the same decision? From my interactions with mappers, more than a few. And these are just the mappers who have talked to me about it. How much worse is OSM because of NE2? Have people here read The No Asshole Rule? In this book, the author outlines how bad behavior (bullying especially) is not neutral, but had major negative impacts on workplaces. NE2 is a bully, plain and simple, and his impacts are felt throughout the community. To answer others questions, we have banned others, mostly temporarily. It is an extreme action that the community has taken in order to bring the seriousness of a situation to light. In my view, those who are the defending NE2 the most are the ones who have dealt with him the least. OSM should not be Mad Max, or a cowboy environment, and by allowing assholes to be allowed to bully communities, we are making the problem worse. - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
Hi all, This thread is getting unproductive and crossing into personal attacks. Please consider if talk-us is the best place to talk about one person behind essentially behind their back. If you feel there's a problem with a particular mapper please contact the mapper and the Data Working Group to help mediate the discussion so that it doesn't run rampant and one-sided on the mailing list. Remember that there are lots of people that get these messages and what might appear as defense of the project to the vocal minority might look extreme and intimidating to the quiet majority that want to participate. -Ian (as a talk-us moderator) On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: His malice is encapsulated in his inability to work with other people. Furthermore, he makes mass edits. There are not edits that one can accomplish simply by hand. He is doing many thousands of edits, and we have evidence that this must be automated. He ignores local mappers, local edits, and insists that he's right (with edits) even when told by on the ground mappers that he's wrong). So what we have is someone running around, bullying the mappers, and running bots on the system. For example, I dislike a particular global modification to my work that he has made. I know that he has more spare time than me to pursue his ideas, and so I haven't bothered to fighting on it, because I know he will fight me, and I know he will win. So I have resigned myself to allowing OSM to be a little bit worse because of him. How many other people have made the same decision? From my interactions with mappers, more than a few. And these are just the mappers who have talked to me about it. How much worse is OSM because of NE2? Have people here read The No Asshole Rule? In this book, the author outlines how bad behavior (bullying especially) is not neutral, but had major negative impacts on workplaces. NE2 is a bully, plain and simple, and his impacts are felt throughout the community. To answer others questions, we have banned others, mostly temporarily. It is an extreme action that the community has taken in order to bring the seriousness of a situation to light. In my view, those who are the defending NE2 the most are the ones who have dealt with him the least. OSM should not be Mad Max, or a cowboy environment, and by allowing assholes to be allowed to bully communities, we are making the problem worse. - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote: Your information on NE2 is grossly inaccurate. NE2 makes very few positive edits, and many, many destructive ones, as well as previous threats to make more edits that conform with his (and only his) vision of the world. There's still a lot of ways incorrectly tagged trunk from when he carried out such a threat to mass-retag everything in route=road; network=US:US as trunk (even when the vast majority of these aren't expressways, even if they are the primary route). Regarding precedent, this would not be the first person that the OSMF has had to take action on. Others have been banned, but NE2's particular brand of edit has always ridden the line, as he's not explicitly doing anything illegal (ie not copyright violation). But OSM is not his personal playground, and his view that this project is his sandbox to impose his will on (reality and community consensus be damned) is just unacceptable. And given that this situation hasn't changed over time, I believe this will continue to be the case indefinitely. The ball is in our court. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: His malice is encapsulated in his inability to work with other people. For example, I dislike a particular global modification to my work that he has made. I know that he has more spare time than me to pursue his ideas, and so I haven't bothered to fighting on it, because I know he will fight me, and I know he will win. Which was the thrust of my interaction in private messaging that I was trying to get at when I referenced a vacuum. Never argue with a fool, for they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. NE2 is demonstrably quite experienced at that. So I have resigned myself to allowing OSM to be a little bit worse because of him. How many other people have made the same decision? I know I have, particularly since I returned to Oklahoma and now spent far more time collecting GPX tracks and bugfixing than actively editing just due to the level of effort required. How much worse is OSM because of NE2? Does this outweigh his positive accomplishments? We'll never know on the former, but I think the Archives will hear me out when I say we're wasting some *serious* man-hours debating this issue once a quarter. Any other organization other than, perhaps, some rather poorly run fandom conventions, would have ditched him a while ago now. Honestly, the only other way I can think of to handle such a situation is going to a more Google Maps style verified edits model where Someone Else has to second every edit anybody makes. I highly doubt we want to do that simply to keep a single contributor involved. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
On 2/10/2013 10:32 AM, Russ Nelson wrote: So I have resigned myself to allowing OSM to be a little bit worse because of him. How many other people have made the same decision? How much worse is OSM because of NE2? Does this outweigh his positive accomplishments? I don't think I'm the only person who decided to basically stop contributing and do other things that don't involve butting heads with people who think they know ground truth better than people who have actually been there. -Nathan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] User pxptyrone's edits
Hi John, On 29 January 2013 03:21, the Old Topo Depot oldto...@novacell.com wrote: Message sent to user via osm messaging Have you had any success communicating with pxptyrone? If not then I think it makes sense to undelete the objects and tags that were removed by this user. Some of it was apparently imported data, but a lot was user contributed or enhanced with local knowledge. pxptyrone has 39 changesets altogether and his last 35 changesets consist of removals, some changesets containing 1000s of objects. Cheers ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
NE2 asked me to share this diary entry with the list: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/NE2/diary/18600 richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
So he's conveniently ignoring the left turn only arrow there preventing a straight-on movement? On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.netwrote: NE2 asked me to share this diary entry with the list: http://www.openstreetmap.org/**user/NE2/diary/18600http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/NE2/diary/18600 richard __**_ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ushttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 15:51:43 -0500 From: dygitulju...@gmail.com To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute At the risk of sounding like I'm defending NE2, one of Ian's points is that NE2 is banned from the list and that discussing this, here, does not allow ALL of the parties in the case to be involved in the discussion. One of the things that we need is a formal and transparent grievance process to correct poor behavior (and to build cases for banishment, when appropriate). In this case, it seems likely to me that the remediation process would have been resisted and the mediators, themselves, would have had their own case(s). For the sake of the strength of the project, for the sake of due process, and for the sake of being able to defend any sort of ban or other action, NE2 must have his day in court. He (and those that may defend him) must be able to speak their minds. On the other hand, those the present situation isn't fair to those of us with grievances. The present situation also is, in total, harmful to the project. I'll second this. If you want to ban somebody in this project, you should t least give them a chance to defend themselves. This isn't a guy posting porn on a forum visited by children (who should always be banned). He is doing useful edits. In fact, as of late, he's been doing a lot of work twinning highways that need it in Florida. We don't have as enough people as we need to get all highways that are divided twinned here in the USA. --James ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
On 2/10/2013 6:12 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: So he's conveniently ignoring the left turn only arrow there preventing a straight-on movement? I would just observe that the red line can be seen as a large version of the white left turn arrow above it.(Other than that, no opinion). ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
Richard Welty writes: NE2 asked me to share this diary entry with the list: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/NE2/diary/18600 That's interesting, but I'll note three things: o the tire tracks with one exception turn left, and o the one set of tire tracks that goes left-right was left by a car skidding its tires, implying that the movement was done surreptitiously, in haste. o There are fewer things you can do when a policeman is watching than not. The point behind turn restrictions is that a routing algorithm is going to be looking for them to create a route. While it's fine that NE2 is willing to make that turn on a lazy Sunday, would he send his mother that way? -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
The question isn't whether or not it's popular. It's popular to drive the wrong way on one-way streets or left of the centerlines in Portland. But that doesn't make it legal. On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:21 PM, James Mast rickmastfa...@hotmail.comwrote: Well, if you do look at the imagery, it seems that's a popular moment to go straight there from ramp to ramp. There are several tire marks proving people do it a lot. --James -- Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2013 17:12:15 -0600 From: ba...@ursamundi.org To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute So he's conveniently ignoring the left turn only arrow there preventing a straight-on movement? On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.netwrote: NE2 asked me to share this diary entry with the list: http://www.openstreetmap.org/**user/NE2/diary/18600http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/NE2/diary/18600 richard __**_ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ushttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
I think that what he would say to the judge, when defending his traffic ticket in court, was that he *did* make a left ... and then a quick right. Since at no time did he move against the flow of traffic, he might prevail. There's a traffic light at that intersection, so it seems safe enough, if a bit unconventional. But isn't that our beef with NE2? That he makes edits which he thinks are obvious, but which we think are unconventional? Paul Johnson writes: So he's conveniently ignoring the left turn only arrow there preventing a straight-on movement? On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.netwrote: NE2 asked me to share this diary entry with the list: http://www.openstreetmap.org/**user/NE2/diary/18600http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/NE2/diary/18600 richard __**_ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-ushttp://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us div dir=ltrSo he#39;s conveniently ignoring the left turn only arrow there preventing a straight-on movement?/divdiv class=gmail_extrabrbrdiv class=gmail_quoteOn Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Richard Welty span dir=ltrlt;a href=mailto:rwe...@averillpark.net; target=_blankrwe...@averillpark.net/agt;/span wrote:br blockquote class=gmail_quote style=margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1exNE2 asked me to share this diary entry with the list:br br a href=http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/NE2/diary/18600; target=_blankhttp://www.openstreetmap.org/u/uuser/NE2/diary/18600/aspan class=HOEnZbfont color=#88br br richard/font/spandiv class=HOEnZbdiv class=h5br br br __u/u_br Talk-us mailing listbr a href=mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org; target=_blankTalk-us@openstreetmap.org/abr a href=http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us; target=_blankhttp://lists.openstreetmap.u/uorg/listinfo/talk-us/abr /div/div/blockquote/divbr/div ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
Looking through the making turns section of the Florida driver's manual, the maneuver NE2 proposes and the argument you're giving to explain it still doesn't work. You turn into the corresponding lane after a turn in Florida, no lane changes permitted in the intersection. You can only turn left into the farthest left lane without changing lanes in the intersection. It's on page 30 of the Florida driver's manual. On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: I think that what he would say to the judge, when defending his traffic ticket in court, was that he *did* make a left ... and then a quick right. Since at no time did he move against the flow of traffic, he might prevail. There's a traffic light at that intersection, so it seems safe enough, if a bit unconventional. But isn't that our beef with NE2? That he makes edits which he thinks are obvious, but which we think are unconventional? Paul Johnson writes: So he's conveniently ignoring the left turn only arrow there preventing a straight-on movement? On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.net wrote: NE2 asked me to share this diary entry with the list: http://www.openstreetmap.org/**user/NE2/diary/18600 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/NE2/diary/18600 richard __**_ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-us http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us div dir=ltrSo he#39;s conveniently ignoring the left turn only arrow there preventing a straight-on movement?/divdiv class=gmail_extrabrbrdiv class=gmail_quoteOn Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Richard Welty span dir=ltrlt;a href=mailto: rwe...@averillpark.net target=_blankrwe...@averillpark.net/agt;/span wrote:br blockquote class=gmail_quote style=margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1exNE2 asked me to share this diary entry with the list:br br a href=http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/NE2/diary/18600; target=_blankhttp://www.openstreetmap.org/u/uuser/NE2/diary/18600/aspan class=HOEnZbfont color=#88br br richard/font/spandiv class=HOEnZbdiv class=h5br br br __u/u_br Talk-us mailing listbr a href=mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org; target=_blank Talk-us@openstreetmap.org/abr a href=http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us; target=_blankhttp://lists.openstreetmap .u/uorg/listinfo/talk-us/abr /div/div/blockquote/divbr/div ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
The same one. It also says to look at the diagram for examples, and shows turns into the nearest available lane. On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 6:09 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Heh, by the way, I just looked at the 2012 Florida Driver's Handbook (page 32). It explicitly says A left turn may be completed in any lane lawfully available, or safe, for the desired direction of travel. I'm not sure which driver's manual you were looking at. On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: You turn into the corresponding lane after a turn in Florida, No. While the broader point is arguable, what you said there is absolutely wrong. The driver of a vehicle intending to turn left at any intersection shall approach the intersection in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of travel of such vehicle, and, after entering the intersection, the left turn shall be made so as to leave the intersection in a lane lawfully available to traffic moving in such direction upon the roadway being entered. ( http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_StatuteSearch_String=URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.151.html ) On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: Looking through the making turns section of the Florida driver's manual, the maneuver NE2 proposes and the argument you're giving to explain it still doesn't work. You turn into the corresponding lane after a turn in Florida, no lane changes permitted in the intersection. You can only turn left into the farthest left lane without changing lanes in the intersection. It's on page 30 of the Florida driver's manual. On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: I think that what he would say to the judge, when defending his traffic ticket in court, was that he *did* make a left ... and then a quick right. Since at no time did he move against the flow of traffic, he might prevail. There's a traffic light at that intersection, so it seems safe enough, if a bit unconventional. But isn't that our beef with NE2? That he makes edits which he thinks are obvious, but which we think are unconventional? Paul Johnson writes: So he's conveniently ignoring the left turn only arrow there preventing a straight-on movement? On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.netwrote: NE2 asked me to share this diary entry with the list: http://www.openstreetmap.org/**user/NE2/diary/18600 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/NE2/diary/18600 richard __**_ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-us http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us div dir=ltrSo he#39;s conveniently ignoring the left turn only arrow there preventing a straight-on movement?/divdiv class=gmail_extrabrbrdiv class=gmail_quoteOn Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Richard Welty span dir=ltrlt;a href=mailto:rwe...@averillpark.net; target=_blankrwe...@averillpark.net/agt;/span wrote:br blockquote class=gmail_quote style=margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1exNE2 asked me to share this diary entry with the list:br br a href= http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/NE2/diary/18600; target=_blankhttp://www.openstreetmap.org/ u/uuser/NE2/diary/18600/aspan class=HOEnZbfont color=#88br br richard/font/spandiv class=HOEnZbdiv class=h5br br br __u/u_br Talk-us mailing listbr a href=mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org; target=_blankTalk-us@openstreetmap.org/abr a href=http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us; target=_blankhttp://lists.openstreetmap .u/uorg/listinfo/talk-us/abr /div/div/blockquote/divbr/div ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
On Sun, 2013-02-10 at 18:22 -0500, Russ Nelson wrote: The point behind turn restrictions is that a routing algorithm is going to be looking for them to create a route. And I think this is enough reason that the turn restriction should stay; I wouldn't want directions to include it and I doubt most of the users would either. Remember, garbage in, garbage out (GIGO). -- Shawn K. Quinn skqu...@rushpost.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
Yes, because it also says not to change lanes. Also, it says you can only cross a solid lane line to avoid a hazard. I'm seeing more ways to interpret what's going on as not allowing the ramp-to-ramp movement than those allowing it to the point where you'd pretty much have to be making the argument for argument's sake (ie, NE2's MO) to not see this as obvious. On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: So you read the part where it specifically says you can complete the turn using any lane lawfully available, and you're still holding that you have to complete the turn using the left-most lane? On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: The same one. It also says to look at the diagram for examples, and shows turns into the nearest available lane. On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 6:09 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Heh, by the way, I just looked at the 2012 Florida Driver's Handbook (page 32). It explicitly says A left turn may be completed in any lane lawfully available, or safe, for the desired direction of travel. I'm not sure which driver's manual you were looking at. On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: You turn into the corresponding lane after a turn in Florida, No. While the broader point is arguable, what you said there is absolutely wrong. The driver of a vehicle intending to turn left at any intersection shall approach the intersection in the extreme left-hand lane lawfully available to traffic moving in the direction of travel of such vehicle, and, after entering the intersection, the left turn shall be made so as to leave the intersection in a lane lawfully available to traffic moving in such direction upon the roadway being entered. ( http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_StatuteSearch_String=URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.151.html ) On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: Looking through the making turns section of the Florida driver's manual, the maneuver NE2 proposes and the argument you're giving to explain it still doesn't work. You turn into the corresponding lane after a turn in Florida, no lane changes permitted in the intersection. You can only turn left into the farthest left lane without changing lanes in the intersection. It's on page 30 of the Florida driver's manual. On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: I think that what he would say to the judge, when defending his traffic ticket in court, was that he *did* make a left ... and then a quick right. Since at no time did he move against the flow of traffic, he might prevail. There's a traffic light at that intersection, so it seems safe enough, if a bit unconventional. But isn't that our beef with NE2? That he makes edits which he thinks are obvious, but which we think are unconventional? Paul Johnson writes: So he's conveniently ignoring the left turn only arrow there preventing a straight-on movement? On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Richard Welty rwe...@averillpark.netwrote: NE2 asked me to share this diary entry with the list: http://www.openstreetmap.org/**user/NE2/diary/18600 http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/NE2/diary/18600 richard __**_ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.**org/listinfo/talk-us http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us div dir=ltrSo he#39;s conveniently ignoring the left turn only arrow there preventing a straight-on movement?/divdiv class=gmail_extrabrbrdiv class=gmail_quoteOn Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 5:09 PM, Richard Welty span dir=ltrlt;a href=mailto:rwe...@averillpark.net; target=_blankrwe...@averillpark.net/agt;/span wrote:br blockquote class=gmail_quote style=margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1exNE2 asked me to share this diary entry with the list:br br a href=http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/NE2/diary/18600; target=_blankhttp://www.openstreetmap.org/ u/uuser/NE2/diary/18600/aspan class=HOEnZbfont color=#88br br richard/font/spandiv class=HOEnZbdiv class=h5br br br __u/u_br Talk-us mailing listbr a href=mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org; target=_blankTalk-us@openstreetmap.org/abr a href=http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us; target=_blankhttp://lists.openstreetmap .u/uorg/listinfo/talk-us/abr /div/div/blockquote/divbr/div ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
For the sake of the strength of the project, for the sake of due process, and for the sake of being able to defend any sort of ban or other action, NE2 must have his day in court. He (and those that may defend him) must be able to speak their minds. On the other hand, those the present situation isn't fair to those of us with grievances. The present situation also is, in total, harmful to the project. Agreed. NE2 may need to be banned, or may be valuable to OSM It should not be decided here, but by a formal procedure. My insight in this from past discussions and interaction is that NE2 has to be beaten over the head with incontrovertible evidence before he is willing to back down. The problem is he isn't offering similar evidence to begin with, and refuses to give other users views similar weight to his own. Regarding the restriction in question. As mentioned it would be illegal based on not using the innermost lane, and crossing a solid traffic line. Note that the on-ramp turn lane is the only one with a solid line from where traffic has to stop. On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Bill R. WASHBURN dygitulju...@gmail.comwrote: At the risk of sounding like I'm defending NE2, one of Ian's points is that NE2 is banned from the list and that discussing this, here, does not allow ALL of the parties in the case to be involved in the discussion. One of the things that we need is a formal and transparent grievance process to correct poor behavior (and to build cases for banishment, when appropriate). In this case, it seems likely to me that the remediation process would have been resisted and the mediators, themselves, would have had their own case(s). For the sake of the strength of the project, for the sake of due process, and for the sake of being able to defend any sort of ban or other action, NE2 must have his day in court. He (and those that may defend him) must be able to speak their minds. On the other hand, those the present situation isn't fair to those of us with grievances. The present situation also is, in total, harmful to the project. Add a side note, I actually do think that the idea of putting changeset approval processes in on new accounts and as a remediation measure in cases like NE2's is a fantastic idea. This would give the community an opportunity to prevent newbie mistakes from making it to the published map, correcting their newbie edit errors for a few edits until it's clear that they get the swing of things, and for sending rogue editors back to get-along-with-the-community school. Bill, aka dygituljunky On Feb 10, 2013 1:57 PM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: If you feel there's a problem with a particular mapper please contact the mapper and the Data Working Group to help mediate the discussion so that it doesn't run rampant and one-sided on the mailing list. Could we get the DWG in on this thread? Enough members of this project are involved in this issue that having this discussion in public where all parties concerned can by a part of the discussion, or at least see the thought process on the DWG's part, that it would be a disservice to hide this in an ivory tower. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Dale Puch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
Paul Johnson writes: Looking through the making turns section of the Florida driver's manual, the maneuver NE2 proposes and the argument you're giving to explain it still doesn't work. Mercy, Jesus, Mary, Mother of God!! I can't believe we're arguing the minutia of Florida traffic law here! What is the conservative approach? What is least likely to get someone a ticket or get them in an accident? What do most drivers do at this intersection? There's no sign? But there are road markings. Put the turn restriction back in. And NE2, if you're reading this? Leave it there. And Paul? For the love of God, stay out of Florida. Don't kick the bear and then wonder why he's biting you. -- --my blog is athttp://blog.russnelson.com Crynwr supports open source software 521 Pleasant Valley Rd. | +1 315-600-8815 Potsdam, NY 13676-3213 | Sheepdog ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: Put the turn restriction back in. And NE2, if you're reading this? Leave it there. Done. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
Wait, what? It's clearly part of the same intersection. On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: Put the turn restriction back in. And NE2, if you're reading this? Leave it there. Done. Now put the split for the off-ramp at a point after the logical intersection. :) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] ref tags
Someone with local knowledge might want to look over the ref=* tags in Florida, a lot seem to be missing the context that let you know what network they're a part of. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/14989711 NE2 has ignored the discussion intentionally and reverted against consensus. On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 7:43 PM, Paul Johnson ba...@ursamundi.org wrote: On Sun, Feb 10, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: Put the turn restriction back in. And NE2, if you're reading this? Leave it there. Done. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
