Re: [Talk-ro] Stabilirea ref-ului la intersecția drumurilor

[Razvan]

Bună,

Exact cum ai presupus s-a aplicat și pana acum. Exista și o documentație
wiki în privința asta.

On Wed, Aug 7, 2019, 12:34 Doina Munteanu 
wrote:

> Salut,
>
> Cum se practică plasarea tagului ref pe porțiunea în care două drumuri se
> intersectează?
> Presupun că rațional ar fi, atunci cand se intersectează două drumuri de
> același rang, gen DN cu DN sau DJ cu DJ, referințele să fie separate prin
> punct și virgulă. În cazul în care se intersetează DN cu DJ, se fixează
> ref=DN și reg_ref=DJ?
> O altă variantă ar fi ca porțiunea respectivă să aibă ref=DN;DJ,
> reg_ref=DJ și nat_ref=DN.
> Cum considerați că ar fi ok?
>
> Mulțumesc!
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] 15 bougies pour OSM !

[Jérôme Amagat]

Vous parlez de chose que je n'ai pas connu, osm et moi, ça fait 6 ans.

L'exemple du tag déprécié power=sub_station, on peut voir sur taginfo (
https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/power=sub_station#map ) qu'il n'est
pas bien choisit si on ne parle que de la France :)
C'est pas pareil en dehors de la France par contre.
(J'ai fait le changement pour ce point rouge au milieu de la France qui
faisait tache :) )



Le sam. 10 août 2019 à 22:08, marc marc  a
écrit :

> Le 10.08.19 à 21:42, Eric SIBERT via Talk-fr a écrit :
> > la question de l’exhaustivité (ou son absence) sur certains types de
> > données m'interroge. Par exemple, je peux constater des erreurs de
> > connexion entre routes pouvant affecter le routage et qui sont présentes
> > depuis plusieurs années, y compris en ville.
>
> c'est ce qui m'étonne aussi le plus :
> - des erreurs "grave" comme tu décris bien détecté par osmose
> et qui ont régulièrement des années lors que j'en corrige
> - loin de l'exhaustivité pour les adresses.
> - des tags dépréciés parfois depuis... longtemps... parfois
> pour des bonnes raisons (power=sub_station à double sens)
> par contre on pourra bientôt faire des stats de la densité
> des plaques d'égout dans certains endroits... surprenant
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Re: [Talk-GB] Rowmaps importing in South Gloucestershire

[Robert Whittaker (OSM lists)]

On Fri, 9 Aug 2019 11:59 Dave F via Talk-GB, 
wrote:

>
> >
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#Public_Rights_of_Way_Data_from_local_councils
> > . While there's nothing listed there, it's definitely not ok to use
> > the data in OSM.
>
> Rubbish.
>
> Just because one person isn't aware of a fact, it doesn't make it untrue.
> No one person has authority over other OSM contributors.
>

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here. My point was that if any
mapper is using data under a licence that requires attribution, then they
can only do so if the required attribution is given on either
https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright or
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors . Otherwise OSM would be
violating that licence by distributing a derived work without the
attribution.

So assuming permission to use the South Gloucestershire data is conditional
on some attribution (which is the case for e.g. the OGL) then it needs to
be listed as a source on the contributors page, with the appropriate
attribution given.

(Separately, I think it's also important from a community verification
point of view that sources and licences are documented, so other mappers
can check we have the necessary rights to use any claimed sources, and
there is evidence if anyone challenges our use of particular data.)

Robert.

>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] 15 bougies pour OSM !

[osm . sanspourriel]

> Gesendet: Samstag, 10. August 2019 um 22:08 Uhr
> Von: marc marc - marc_marc_...@hotmail.com
> An: "talk-fr@openstreetmap.org" 
> Betreff: Re: [OSM-talk-fr] 15 bougies pour OSM !
>
(...)
> c'est ce qui m'étonne aussi le plus :
> - des erreurs "grave" comme tu décris bien détecté par osmose
> et qui ont régulièrement des années lors que j'en corrige
> - loin de l'exhaustivité pour les adresses.
> - des tags dépréciés parfois depuis... longtemps... parfois
> pour des bonnes raisons (power=sub_station à double sens)
> par contre on pourra bientôt faire des stats de la densité
> des plaques d'égout dans certains endroits... surprenant
D'accord sur le constat.
Par contre comme c'est fait par des bénévoles, si un a un TOC des plaques 
d'égout (ou des attaches wtf ;-)) et que personne ne rectifie les erreurs 
"grossières". Je sais que même dans ma commune je suis peu motivé pour ajouter 
les nouveaux lotissements.
Et oui bénévole veut dire qui veut bien.
Par contre il manque peut-être des outils de QA pour voir les zones 
veillissantes ou faiblement détaillées afin qu'on essaye d'adopter une zone.

> (power=sub_station à double sens)
Tu ne vois pas ça sur la carte, sans requête overpass ou outil QA, ça va 
effectivement rester des années.

Éric, un arbuste avait dû pousser lors de la vérification terrain ;-).
J'ai aussi vu des suggestions dues aux traces GPS me suggérer de passer une 
voie en sens unique. Là le contributeur s'est peut-être basé sur la vitesse 
observée, ça vaudrait le coup que tu commentes le changeset.

Jean-Yvon


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] 15 bougies pour OSM !

[Eric SIBERT via Talk-fr]

c'est ce qui m'étonne aussi le plus :
- des erreurs "grave" comme tu décris bien détecté par osmose
et qui ont régulièrement des années lors que j'en corrige


Un peu plus subtil, sur les limites de vitesses: il y a deux ans, je 
constate une nouvelle "zone 30" sur la "route Napoléon" au sud de 
Grenoble (classée "route à grande circulation"). Je repasse il y a 
quelques jours: toujours la "zone 30" sur le terrain mais plus dans OSM, 
où elle est retournée à 50. Dans l'historique, je constate qu'elle a été 
remise à 50 il y a un an et demi. Commentaire : "Updated some road 
infos" Source: survey".



- loin de l'exhaustivité pour les adresses.


Gros chantier de mon point de vue quand même.

Eric

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] 15 bougies pour OSM !

[marc marc]

Le 10.08.19 à 21:42, Eric SIBERT via Talk-fr a écrit :
> la question de l’exhaustivité (ou son absence) sur certains types de 
> données m'interroge. Par exemple, je peux constater des erreurs de 
> connexion entre routes pouvant affecter le routage et qui sont présentes 
> depuis plusieurs années, y compris en ville.

c'est ce qui m'étonne aussi le plus :
- des erreurs "grave" comme tu décris bien détecté par osmose
et qui ont régulièrement des années lors que j'en corrige
- loin de l'exhaustivité pour les adresses.
- des tags dépréciés parfois depuis... longtemps... parfois
pour des bonnes raisons (power=sub_station à double sens)
par contre on pourra bientôt faire des stats de la densité
des plaques d'égout dans certains endroits... surprenant
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] 15 bougies pour OSM !

[Eric SIBERT via Talk-fr]

Le 10/08/2019 à 18:45, Christian Quest a écrit :

Avant Bing, il y a eu... Yahoo, Spot, entre autres.


Ah oui!!!

Je fais aussi partie des crypto-dinosaures inscrit depuis plus de 11 
ans. J'ai aussi commencé, en prévision, à collecter des traces GPS de 
mes déplacements en 2002. Ça m'a bien aidé pour Madagascar. À l'époque, 
il n'y avait que Yahoo sur la capitale. Quand je regarde le rendu 
"2011", je constate (avec plaisir) que ma contribution était majeure sur 
les aspects routiers. Ensuite Bing est arrivé d'abord sur quelques 
villes puis sur tout le pays. Sinon, toujours pas de cadastre, de 
limites administratives, d'occupations du terrain et j'en passe, de 
libre. En 2010, j'ai aussi mis un œuf de pâques façon nez au milieu de 
la figure dans une grande ville. Il est toujours là ;-) soulignant la 
faiblesse de la communauté locale :-(


Pour revenir à la France, la question de l’exhaustivité (ou son absence) 
sur certains types de données m'interroge. Par exemple, je peux 
constater des erreurs de connexion entre routes pouvant affecter le 
routage et qui sont présentes depuis plusieurs années, y compris en ville.


Eric

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Re: [Talk-si] divje in neustrezno spreminjanje klasifikacije poti

[Blaž Lorger]

Preden sem včeraj poslal sporočilo v to mailing listo sem mu poslal 
sporočilo. Ni bilo odgovora, preprosto nadaljuje s "popravljanjem" karte.


Si pogledal zahodni del Pohorja? Vse gozdne ceste in traktorske vlake je 
preklasificiral kot običajne ceste. *Vse* spremembe klasifikacij cest so 
napačne. Če bo kdo skušal z avtom peljati po teh poteh bo neprijetno 
presenečen.


Problem je da preprosto spreminja obstoječe podatke. Dodal je bolj malo 
lastnih. Tam kjer jih je dodal pa so dodane ceste spojene z zgradbami, 
vegetacijo, mejami, ...
Zanima me ali imaš kak predlog kako popraviti zmešnjavo, ki jo je 
naredil, brez da bi preprosto revertal vse njegove spremembe. Ampak 
glede na to da ne reagira na sporočilo ne vidim druge možnosti.


Pozdrav
  Blaž

On 10. 08. 19 18:11, colored stone wrote:
Malce sem pogledal in gre verjetno za novejšega uporabnika, ki še ni 
dovolj dobro seznanjem s pravili urejanja. Niso čisto vse njegove poti 
popolnoma napačno klasificirane.


Primerno bi ga bilo prijazno opozoriti in ga napotiti na obstoječo 
dokumentacijo glede urejanja cest.


Po mojem še ni čas za kako revertanje.


Lep pozdrav,

Martin

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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Hi Marc,

On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 7:36 PM marc marc  wrote:

> could you share a link that shows that it is the local community that
> solicited facebook as the wiki page claims and not facebook that invents
> a collaboration to "whashing" their wishs ? given the frequent issues
> (about both the quality and the lack of collaboration and opt-in from
> the local communities where it took place before), it seems important to
> me not to repeat this error
>

Unfortunately, I cannot provide you with a link since we communicated with
Facebook's OSM team privately. This is completely our own initiative and
was not initiated from Facebook's side.

I completely understand your concern regarding Facebook's actions
especially with the problems and issues encountered by the local mapping
community in Thailand. As such, we stipulated with Facebook that any
mapping in the Philippines will only be done by local mappers and not by
Facebook's map team.

Cheers,
Eugene
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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Hi Frederik,

On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 5:55 PM Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> do I understand correctly that you and your local partners aim to
> recruit new mappers to OSM, who will not learn the "old fashioned"
> workflow of tracing stuff from imagery by hand, but be mainly taught to
> work with pre-processed Facebook road data?
>

Not at all. We have no plans to teach new contributors to *only* contribute
using the RapiD editor or using FB-provided data. We simply want to
incorporate these road-detections as an optional complement to the
trainings and workshops that we have been conducting over the past decade.


> How will you ensure that your partners give those new mappers a training
> that is good enough to know when to *not* trust the pre-processed AI
> data? All too often people automatically assume that "the computer is
> always right", and this would be especially the case in a mapathon setup
> where time is limited. Will local new recruits be taught to amend the
> raw machine-generated data with their own knowledge, like street names,
> road classification, surface...?
>

We are all too aware of the limitations of AI/ML-derived data and so we
plan to stress that AI is not infallible and to always use one's best
judgement. We will provide examples of false positives and false negatives
to show that the data still needs human judgement.


> [...] How will you ensure that you do not generate more contributions than
> you can ensure the quality for?
>

We have already browsed through the road-detections data provided by
Facebook and based on our assessment, most of the country's roads have
actually already been mapped. So we are pretty confident that the local
community can properly review/validate contributions and that we won't be
overwhelmed. We also plan to use the tasks-assisted instance of the HOT
Tasking Manager to coordinate mapping and validation. We have done a pilot
of mapping using RapiD with a small province as a test[1] and we think this
process is feasible. In addition, we do not plan to initiate wholesale
mapping of the country with Facebook's AI-derived data. Our plan is to wait
for local mappers, local government units, or organizations to contact us
if they want to help complete the road network their local area. Only then
will we create tasks and provide trainings or workshops in case they need
it.

[1] https://tasks-assisted.hotosm.org/project/9

Cheers,
Eugene
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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

[Nuno Caldeira]

Hi Martin,

For another perspective, imagine someone making a world map with 85% 
OpenStreetMap data and 15% XY inc. data, if someone looks on a part of 
this map which is fed by these 15% XY data, you would not want to have 
it incorrectly attributed to OpenStreetMap (although we are generally 
the principal data provider).
Well, the example i gave previously 
https://janaodaparaabastecer.vost.pt/ is a good example of what you are 
saying. What do you do to fix it? Mapbox will say nothing or "believe 
this is the common, VOST won't say anything. Meanwhile 99.9% of that map 
is OSM a the gas station status update is provided by Waze. Sounds fair 
doesn't it?



I believe the 50% rule is ok, if it refers to the displayed objects on 
the screen (although this can also be arbitrary, since you can always 
split a way, or interpolate nodes to get more of them).
Imagine a map which chooses a different data provider per country. For 
zoomed in maps (you only see data from one provider) you would want 
this one provider prominently attributed. If you attribute to someone 
else more prominently and show the actual data provider only in 
„others“, you will inevitably create a wrong impression about the 
source, and if it’s us who miss out on visible attribution, we should 
care.


Good that you mention this. On my email from 10th of October 2018 to 
facebook and Mapbox (both stopped replying), i pointed out these 
examples which have zero issues about having multiple sources being 
attributed visibly and not hiding them:


Microsoft - Uses HERE and OSM and attributes both visibly on the 
footer 
https://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2=48.187141%2C%2016.349561=48.187141%2C16.349561=48.18694871145921~16.349901334904583=18=1 



ARCGIS Web - Uses OSM and ESRI data, credits both 
https://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=fae788aa91e54244b161b59725dcbb2a


European Commission  - credits OSM and other sources 
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/infrastructure/tentec/tentec-portal/map/maps.html 
and 
http://emergency.copernicus.eu/mapping/copernicus-emergency-management-service#zoom=2=23.42974=16.28085=00B0T


Sadly, some say this is hard to implement. The above sites, must have a 
hell of a research UX dept to make it possible and others just say it's 
hard. Google does the same on "dynamic attribution". It's not rocket 
science, especially when it's for desktop use, there's plenty of space 
to attribute visibly. It's just excuses.



What about maps that display an overlay over a basemap? This would 
lead to the overlay data provider mostly being pushed in the second 
row because it is quantitatively less, but the overlay data might be 
the rare unique data that is interesting. In case someone displayed an 
OpenStreetMap based overlay over a different background, why would we 
deliberately renounce from attribution in these cases?



We shouldn't as it would violate the license.


It is crucial that the 50% relate to the actually visible map 
features, and not to the total map. If the latter was possible, you 
could just fill your db with random crap in the middle of the ocean 
and distort the proportion.
Obviously, we know those dirty tricks. Fatmap is a perfect example of 
that 
https://fatmap.com/adventures/@38.6755407,-9.1596113,3096.1899062,-40.2439178,19.7162561,31.6575309,normal 
and there's is plenty of room to add the attribution visibly.



To be honest i'm kinda fed up of all of this, nothing happens. And it's 
a shame stating "the license doesn't say this or that", it neither says 
you must attribute with the exact text “© OpenStreetMap contributors”, 
must be unreasonable calculated to acknowledge. Common sense and 
fairness is all needed, not crappy legal interpretations and placing 
fear for legal actions from corporate interests. Sadly i'm starting to 
believe the concerns that some have shared on the list that OSMF is 
being "controlled" by corporate interests and not by the spirit that it 
was created.



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Re: [Talk-it] PCN2006 non funziona?

[liste DOT girarsi AT posteo DOT eu]

Il 10/08/19 17:40, Volker Schmidt ha scritto:
> Di nuovo non riesco a caricare le foto PCN2006:
> "wms.pcn.minambiente.it is taking too long to respond"
> 
> Qualcuno sa di più?
> 
> Grazie
> 
> Volker
> 
> 

E di nuovo in manutenzione:

https://www.minambiente.it/notizie/geoportale-nazionale-avviso-di-temporaneo-rallentamento-dei-servizi-online-manutenzione



-- 
_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_
|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|_|
Simone Girardelli

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] 15 bougies pour OSM !

[Christian Quest]

Avant Bing, il y a eu... Yahoo, Spot, entre autres.

On voit encore bien l'emprise des images haute définition de Yahoo qui ne
couvraient que les grandes villes, exemple (2009):
https://osm.cquest.org/archeosm/#11/48.6647/2.6762 car sur cette zone le
landuse "pre Corine Land Cover" ne pouvait se faire correctement qu'avec
cette source.

Bing a ensuite pris le relais de Yahoo avec une couverture globale, Corine
Land Cover est arrivé, le cadastre, puis l'extraction du bâti du cadastre,
etc... :)


Adopter une zone moins cartographiée est vraiment un excellent moyen de
compenser les disparités.
Parfois j'ai envie de réagir sur des niveaux de détails de mapping qui me
semblent extrêmes alors qu'il manque encore beaucoup d'éléments de base à
de nombreux endroits ou que ce qui existe n'a pas été mis à jour depuis
bien longtemps.
Certaines de ces zones ne sont pas si éloignées d'une grosse agglo... j'ai
vu ça dernièrement tout à côté de Nîmes (en vérifiant l'orthohr du Gard).
De nombreuses villas manquent ainsi que bon nombre de voies de
communication résidentielles.

Je vois donc quelques challenges (inchangés) pour les années qui viennent:
- assurer un minima d'exhaustivité sur l'ensemble du territoire pour des
données de base
- conserver à jour ces données de base... encore plus délicat quand on
n'est pas sur le terrain pour constater les changements
- maintenir la motivation pour les contributeurs et recruter de nouveaux
contributeurs


Le sam. 10 août 2019 à 14:55, Christian Rogel <
christian.ro...@club-internet.fr> a écrit :

> Mon inscription remonte à 11 ans moins 2 mois. Je me souviens qu’il
> manquait de grandes parties des grandes et moyennes villes. Les petites
> villes et les villages existaient peu.
> Le saut quantitatif a eu lieu, en France, en 2009 et 2010 (janvier 2010 :
> ouverture du cadastre).
> Il faut rappeler que le seul outil de traçage était les « trackers GPS »,
> dont la précision affichée était de 5 à 10 mètres. En 2009, je crois,
> MicroSoft avait mis à disposition son imagerie satellitaire Bing, dont le
> calage était souvent défectueux.
> On voit maintenant que les agglomérations sont toutes là, mais, on tombe
> très souvent sur des voiries approximatives, des voies manquantes ou mal
> qualifiées, quand ce n’est pas des fausses liaisons. Bref, ce n’est pas
> fini.
> C’est pourquoi, j’alterne le mapping de zones que je fréquente avec celui
> d’espaces que je ne verrai jamais, en me cantonnant à des rectifications
> des tracés et à des objets très visibles sur la merveilleuse ortho de l’IGN.
> C’est en « adoptant » des coins délaissés qu’on peut espérer empêcher que
> ne se creuse trop l’écart entre les grandes villes « surmappées » et la
> campagne proche ou lointaine.
>
> Christian R.
>
> --
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
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Re: [Talk-si] divje in neustrezno spreminjanje klasifikacije poti

[colored stone]

Malce sem pogledal in gre verjetno za novejšega uporabnika, ki še ni dovolj
dobro seznanjem s pravili urejanja. Niso čisto vse njegove poti popolnoma
napačno klasificirane.

Primerno bi ga bilo prijazno opozoriti in ga napotiti na obstoječo
dokumentacijo glede urejanja cest.

Po mojem še ni čas za kako revertanje.


Lep pozdrav,

Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] Survey on global and local communities in OpenStreetMap

[joost schouppe]

Hi,

We had a tight schedule for this survey, because we want to be able to
present something by the next SotM. That explains why some questions aren't
exactly worded perfectly. It would have been better to get more people
involved and do more testing. But that inevitably slows things down. We did
ask the science mailing list for feedback, but the only response was a
volunteer to translate to Hungarian (thanks Levente!). And while I think
there are clearly some issues that we missed, the output will still be
quite useful.

I think we would like to get more people involved next time. The first
survey was really last minute, this one is a bit better prepared but still
made a few mistakes. The next one can be built over a bit more time. Oh

The "remote mapping" was added as a "nice to know" and wasn't even deeply
discussed between the three of us writing the actual survey questions.

We did intend to publish "raw data", and consulted with LWG to get a proper
wording for that. We understood that the "Publicly, aggregated and
anonymously " meant "answers presented together" in whatever form
(spreadsheet etc) and was not referring to a summary. If we misenterpreted
that (unfortunately that feels kind of obvious now), than we'll make sure
the wording is better next time.

And there is also the option to become an OSMF volunteer who has signed ad
NDA, for those who want to work with the raw data.

-- 
Joost Schouppe
OpenStreetMap  |
Twitter  | LinkedIn
 | Meetup

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[Talk-it] PCN2006 non funziona?

[Volker Schmidt]

Di nuovo non riesco a caricare le foto PCN2006:
"wms.pcn.minambiente.it is taking too long to respond"

Qualcuno sa di più?

Grazie

Volker
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[Talk-us] Indego Import

[Joseph Coscia via Talk-us]

Hello,

I would like to propose an import of Indego bikeshare stations located in 
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States. I have already contacted Indego, and 
permission to use their data has been granted. Their GBFS feed would be used to 
collect the relevant data.

I've put an outline together at 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Indego_Import

Sincerely,
jcoscia

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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

sent from a phone

On 10. Aug 2019, at 11:27, Nuno Caldeira  wrote:

>> can't they use more than one data source?
>> Yes, i do agree. Sounds like a good argument to remove the 50% of the 
>> guideline.
>> 
> Yes, i do agree. Sounds like a good argument to remove the 50% of the 
> guideline.
> 



I believe the 50% rule is ok, if it refers to the displayed objects on the 
screen (although this can also be arbitrary, since you can always split a way, 
or interpolate nodes to get more of them).
Imagine a map which chooses a different data provider per country. For zoomed 
in maps (you only see data from one provider) you would want this one provider 
prominently attributed. If you attribute to someone else more prominently and 
show the actual data provider only in „others“, you will inevitably create a 
wrong impression about the source, and if it’s us who miss out on visible 
attribution, we should care.

For another perspective, imagine someone making a world map with 85% 
OpenStreetMap data and 15% XY inc. data, if someone looks on a part of this map 
which is fed by these 15% XY data, you would not want to have it incorrectly 
attributed to OpenStreetMap (although we are generally the principal data 
provider).

It is crucial that the 50% relate to the actually visible map features, and not 
to the total map. If the latter was possible, you could just fill your db with 
random crap in the middle of the ocean and distort the proportion.

What about maps that display an overlay over a basemap? This would lead to the 
overlay data provider mostly being pushed in the second row because it is 
quantitatively less, but the overlay data might be the rare unique data that is 
interesting. In case someone displayed an OpenStreetMap based overlay over a 
different background, why would we deliberately renounce from attribution in 
these cases?


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] 15 bougies pour OSM !

[DH]

Le 10/08/2019 à 14:53, Christian Rogel a écrit :

Mon inscription remonte à 11 ans moins 2 mois. Je me souviens qu’il manquait de 
grandes parties des grandes et moyennes villes. Les petites villes et les 
villages existaient peu.
Le saut quantitatif a eu lieu, en France, en 2009 et 2010 (janvier 2010 : 
ouverture du cadastre).
Il faut rappeler que le seul outil de traçage était les « trackers GPS », dont 
la précision affichée était de 5 à 10 mètres. En 2009, je crois, MicroSoft 
avait mis à disposition son imagerie satellitaire Bing, dont le calage était 
souvent défectueux.
On voit maintenant que les agglomérations sont toutes là, mais, on tombe très 
souvent sur des voiries approximatives, des voies manquantes ou mal qualifiées, 
quand ce n’est pas des fausses liaisons. Bref, ce n’est pas fini.
C’est pourquoi, j’alterne le mapping de zones que je fréquente avec celui 
d’espaces que je ne verrai jamais, en me cantonnant à des rectifications des 
tracés et à des objets très visibles sur la merveilleuse ortho de l’IGN.
C’est en « adoptant » des coins délaissés qu’on peut espérer empêcher que ne se 
creuse trop l’écart entre les grandes villes « surmappées » et la campagne 
proche ou lointaine.

Christian R.

J'ai bien peur de faire  partie des vieux dinosaures avec une 
inscription il y a 11 ans et presque 8 mois. Je partage l'expérience 
(j'ai acheté mon premier GPS grâce ou à cause d'OSM) et le souci de 
Christian sur l'équité entre les territoires hyper bien décrits et ceux 
qui manquent cruellement de contributeurs ou d'attentions.


On peut être sacrément fiers de tout le boulot abattu et j'entends 
souvent des collègues (ou anciens collègues) dire leur stupéfaction 
devant le niveau de richesse contenu dans la base.


Ce qui m'épate le plus, c'est qu'au bout de tout ce temps, la motivation 
est intacte : il reste tellement de choses à faire encore. Mais quand on 
aime, on ne compte pas


Vivement les 20 ans

Denis


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tr : Vhello - New Cycle Nodes Network / Nouveau réseau Points-Noeuds Vélo / Niew Fietsknooppunten

[Jo]

Hi Corentin,

I started by adding all the nodes and integrating them with our data.

For the itineraries, it will take a bit longer. If you like, it might be a
good idea to do a Hangout, so I can show you how to do it using JOSM and a
plugin of which I'm  I'm overseeing the development. I would probably
invite some folks I met at SotM-FR who also had an interest in mapping
bicycle itineraries.

I wouldn't mind adding all the itineraries between the points. That will
take me a few days, would it be possible for the province of Hainaut to
provide me with a few nights accommodation in the region? Then I'd come
over and actually cycle (part of) the network (and make pictures for
Mapillary of it). Sort of a vacation for me, but very useful for OSM and, I
suppose, for the province as well.

Polyglot

On Thu, Aug 8, 2019 at 2:20 PM marc marc  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Le 08.08.19 à 14:05, corentin.marec...@hainaut.be a écrit :
> > we translated in french the following page:
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Cycle_Node_Network_Tagging
> > How can I add it for the community ?
>
> clic on "Toutes les langues", and "Français",
> save your translation there, including wikicode,
> use preview before saving
>
> Regards,
> Marc
>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] 15 bougies pour OSM !

[Christian Rogel]

Mon inscription remonte à 11 ans moins 2 mois. Je me souviens qu’il manquait de 
grandes parties des grandes et moyennes villes. Les petites villes et les 
villages existaient peu.
Le saut quantitatif a eu lieu, en France, en 2009 et 2010 (janvier 2010 : 
ouverture du cadastre).
Il faut rappeler que le seul outil de traçage était les « trackers GPS », dont 
la précision affichée était de 5 à 10 mètres. En 2009, je crois, MicroSoft 
avait mis à disposition son imagerie satellitaire Bing, dont le calage était 
souvent défectueux.
On voit maintenant que les agglomérations sont toutes là, mais, on tombe très 
souvent sur des voiries approximatives, des voies manquantes ou mal qualifiées, 
quand ce n’est pas des fausses liaisons. Bref, ce n’est pas fini.
C’est pourquoi, j’alterne le mapping de zones que je fréquente avec celui 
d’espaces que je ne verrai jamais, en me cantonnant à des rectifications des 
tracés et à des objets très visibles sur la merveilleuse ortho de l’IGN.
C’est en « adoptant » des coins délaissés qu’on peut espérer empêcher que ne se 
creuse trop l’écart entre les grandes villes « surmappées » et la campagne 
proche ou lointaine.

Christian R.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

[Nuno Caldeira]

Oh right that sounds fair...not.

Same applies to this https://janaodaparaabastecer.vost.pt/ theres Mapbox 
logo, there's VOST logo, then under  "i" crap load of sources...oh yeh 
that's OSM for sure, i know my edits well. clearly the 50% rule needs to 
be removed from the guidance as users are using already in a misleading 
way. And again another Mapbox tied map.



Às 11:58 de 10/08/2019, Andrew Harvey escreveu:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 at 17:27, Joseph Eisenberg 
mailto:joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com>> wrote:


It's even hard to recommend apps like Maps.me when they don't
attribute Openstreetmap, instead putting their own logo in the lower
right corner.

If people don't know that OSM is the source of the data in a map, they
won't know how to get involved to improve it.


They do provide the attribution, tt's under Settings | About (then 
again under Settings | About | Copyright).


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[Talk-GB] Joy Diversion currently live in Manchester

[Jez Nicholson]

Our friends at Open Data Manchester are currently live in Manchester
running another if their innovative "Joy Diversion" events where groups
explore the city based on old maps and OSM. They report their findings live
on Twitter under the hashtag
https://mobile.twitter.com/hashtag/JoyDiversion?src=hashtag_click=live

This sort of event is introducing OSM to a new audience. You could give
them some encouragement by commenting, or liking their posts.
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Re: [talk-ph] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative

[maning sambale]

Thank you announcing Eugene.
Also for everyone, we announced this initiative to the international
community [0].
We would love comments from both community to make this initiative successful.

[0] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2019-August/083104.html

On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 2:26 PM Eugene Alvin Villar  wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> We are pleased to announce an initiative to use AI or machine learning 
> (ML)-derived data to help improve the coverage of OpenStreetMap in the 
> Philippines and we are calling it Tabang-AI. This is word play on on Cebuano 
> word tábangay which means "collaboration" or "teamwork". We believe that AI 
> and ML, when used properly, and always with the local mappers leading the 
> effort, is a fruitful complement to conventional forms of mapping in OSM.
>
> One of the first projects under this initiative is related to the AI road 
> detection technology developed by Facebook under their Map With AI 
> (https://mapwith.ai/) service. We requested Facebook to run their machine 
> learning models in the Philippines and they have provided the detected road 
> data through their RapiD editor.
>
> Together with various local partners (LGUs, NGOs, etc.) that we have forged 
> from the recent Pista ng Mapa conference in Dumaguete, we plan to promote 
> baseline road mapping throughout the country to further increase data 
> coverage. This will be implemented in several phases to ensure that the data 
> added to OSM conforms to the defined quality standards outlined by the local 
> community.
>
> You can read more about this initiative on the OSM Wiki:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Philippines/Tabang-AI
>
> If you want to start coordinating map tasks within your community, please 
> feel free to reply to this email, or sent a private message to 
> osm.pilipinas+aimappingrequ...@gmail.com or create a GitHub ticket here: 
> https://github.com/OSMPH/Tabang-AI/issues/new
>
> Happy mapping!
> Eugene
>
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-- 
cheers,
maning
--
"Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
https://github.com/maning
http://twitter.com/maningsambale
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Re: [Talk-se] Lantmäteriets öppna data

[Andreas Vilén]

Hej Eva!

Nu när jag sitter vid ett riktigt tangentbord ska jag utveckla lite mer vad
jag menar.

Höjdkurvorna är över huvud taget inte relaterade till Openstreetmap, utan
är inlagda som en bakgrund från en annan källa. Du kan komma i kontakt med
de som skapat denna rendering här: https://www.thunderforest.com/. De
renderingar som finns på huvudsidan är utvalda som de "bästa" för att
demonstrera OSM:s databas, men exakt hur de valts ut har jag inte insyn i.

Jag svarar dig nedan avsnitt för avsnitt eftersom det nog blir lättast så.

Du skrev:
"Det jag är ute efter är som sagt att få in data i områden där det inte
finns något alls just nu. Titta gärna på länken i mitt första inlägg. Om
jag eller någon annan ska rita in objekt från satellitbilder eller
flygfoton eller mäta in dem med handhållen GPS blir det med stor
sannolikhet mindre korrekt än Lantmäteriets (eller Trafikverkets) kartor
och jag skulle hellre koncentrera mig på saker som inte finns karterade
någon annanstans som tex lokala namn och detaljer som inte finns på
vanliga kartor."

Jag förstår lockelsen att lägga in data som redan finns karterad och öppen
att använda. Jag vill dock ändå att du provar att kartera manuellt först.
Du behöver inte gå ut med handhållen GPS och mäta i sådana här områden,
utan kartera direkt i någon OSM-editor baserat på flygbilder duger bra. Det
verkar enkelt och snabbt att importera data, men att importera något till
OSM är en lång process. Data behöver bearbetas, justeras, kontrolleras mot
redan karterat (visst saknas mycket data i din länk, men helt fri från data
är inte området). Det finns dessutom en lång och tidskrävande process man
måste följa om man ska importera data till OSM. Mer info om denna process
kan hittas här:  https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines. En
av grundreglerna är att man ska bekanta sig ordentligt med OSM. Nu vet jag
inte om du redigerat tidigare, men om du inte har det kan det vara bra att
börja just med att prova att redigera i ett område du kan, och kanske då
prova på att rita in dessa skogar med mera manuellt.

Angående lokala namn, är det troligen lättast att lägga in även dessa
manuellt baserat på en bakgrundskarta som Ekonomiska kartan eller liknande.

Du skrev:
"Terrängkartan har stora byggnader som objekt. Det finns även objekt för
hus och gårdar, men vid närmare eftertanke går de inte att använda som
byggnader. Det är i princip ett hus/gård per tomt och jag vet inte om de
går att använda på något sätt. De symboliserar ju bebyggda tomter. Kan
man använda den informationen på något sätt? Det finns även andra
intressanta kategorier i skiktet bs som kyrkor och vindkraftverk."

Som du själv föreslår går det inte att använda generaliserade rutor för
byggnader till OSM-databasen. Det går att kartera byggnader som noder, dvs
en enskild punkt med building=yes, men det rekommenderas att man ritar hela
geometrin. Man ska aldrig gissa en geometri, som att exempelvis göra varje
byggnad till en kvadrat. Kyrkor och vindkraftverk är definitivt intressanta
att lägga in som noder, men även här misstänker jag att omfattningen är så
pass liten att det inte skulle löna sig att göra en automatiserad import
med allt förarbete det kräver. Troligen är det lättare att leta och lägga
in manuellt, kanske med terrängkartan som hjälp som bakgrund i OSM-editorn
du använder.

Du skrev:
"Jag har startat den här diskussionen för att jag försöker följa
instruktionerna för att importera data, som jag för övrigt tycker är
vettiga. Jag vill helt enkelt veta om det finns intresse för att få in
denna information i OSM. Om det är fler som är intresserade av att få in
informationen för områden som de vill kartera så vill jag gärna
diskutera med dem. Om ingen är intresserad så vill jag i så fall ta in
informationen för områden som jag har intresse för, i första hand
området i min länk och i förlängningen hela Anundsjö församling och
andra delar av Örnsköldsviks kommun där inget finns för tillfället."

Ja, och det är jättebra att du tar upp det här och inte bara laddar upp
data utan föregående diskussion. Jag är säker på att du har goda motiv och
det är inte vanligt att förslag till importer är så här välformulerade (jag
har läst många skräckexempel, framförallt utanför Sverige). Datan du nämner
är intressant, men det finns en allmän skepticism inför importer av fri
data till OSM, eftersom datan man importerar ofta behöver efterbearbetas,
och den som vill importera underskattar tiden det kommer ta.

Som några exempel kan jag nämna att jag importerat alla byggnader i Lomma
kommun. Detta dataset såg jättebra ut och jag laddade upp datan efter långa
diskussioner utan invändningar. När jag väl laddat upp insåg jag att i
princip varenda byggnad hade en liten, liten överlappning med huset intill,
och jag la säkert två hela (obetalda) arbetsdagar på att städa upp detta.
Jag importerade alla husnummer i Helsingborgs kommun, och la många
frivilliga timmar på att matcha ihop dessa med respektive hus, ett arbete
som 

Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative

[marc marc]

Hello,

 > The community of OSM mappers in the Philippines

could you share a link that shows that it is the local community that 
solicited facebook as the wiki page claims and not facebook that invents 
a collaboration to "whashing" their wishs ? given the frequent issues 
(about both the quality and the lack of collaboration and opt-in from 
the local communities where it took place before), it seems important to 
me not to repeat this error

Regars,
Marc
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Re: [Talk-se] Lantmäteriets öppna data

[Mats Elfström]

Hej!
Vad är egentligen motivet för att kopiera öppna och levande dataset till OSM?
Det blir ju ett snapshot av data som är inaktuella nästa dag. Dessutom är det 
oerhört svårt att kvalitetsmärka data. Till exempel Terrängkartan består av 
data från lång tid tillbaka, fångad på ett otal olika sätt. Det är dessutom en 
kartografisk databas, avsedd för presentationsskalan 1:5.
Tar den som kopierar data sedan ett evigt ansvar för att hålla det uppdaterat?

Hälsning / Regards
Mats.E

Skickat från min / Sent from my iPad, Ursäkta att jag är kortfattad / Excuse my 
brevity. 
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] 15 bougies pour OSM !

[Jacques Lavignotte]

Le 10/08/2019 à 10:57, Christian Quest a écrit :

Et oui... déjà 15 ans !


Je viens de naître à OSM

Mais BRAVO !


J.
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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

[Andrew Harvey]

On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 at 17:27, Joseph Eisenberg 
wrote:

> It's even hard to recommend apps like Maps.me when they don't
> attribute Openstreetmap, instead putting their own logo in the lower
> right corner.
>
> If people don't know that OSM is the source of the data in a map, they
> won't know how to get involved to improve it.
>

They do provide the attribution, tt's under Settings | About (then again
under Settings | About | Copyright).
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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

[Tobias Knerr]

On 09.08.19 16:35, Frederik Ramm wrote:
> I wonder if we could perhaps get rid of the "Contributors" mention
> altogether.

This idea makes a lot of sense. Especially as both the guideline draft
and the current FAQ already allow this "if space is limited":

> Because OpenStreetMap is its contributors, you may omit the word
> "contributors" if space is limited

So aside from making it much less awkward to attribute OSM in
non-English or multilingual contexts, this change would also simplify
the rules a bit and remove one source of ambiguity. I like it!

Tobias



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Voies d'accès aux stations-essence

[Julien djakk]

Salut !

Un peu à voir, à Paris les panneaux indiquent "Piste" pour les voies
sur trottoir. Je crois que ça s'applique aussi aux quelques station
services parisiennes ?

Julien "djakk"

Le mar. 6 août 2019 à 10:52, marc marc  a écrit :
>
> Bonjour,
>
> Le 06.08.19 à 10:48, Florian LAINEZ a écrit :
> > dégommer du rouge
>
> dans quel outil ?
>
> > service=driveway
> > "desserve une entreprise"
>
> c'est ce que j'utilise
>
> Cordialement,
> Marc
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] 15 bougies pour OSM !

[Julien djakk]

Bon anniversaire OSM !

Moi déjà 9 ans OMG 


Julien "djakk"

Le sam. 10 août 2019 à 10:58, Christian Quest
 a écrit :
>
> Et oui... déjà 15 ans !
>
> Quel formidable travail collaboratif accomplit, il suffit de regarder un peu 
> en arrière pour mieux s'en rendre compte.
>
> Voici une bonne occasion de rappeler l'existence de 
> https://osm.cquest.org/archeosm/
> Vous pouvez y explorer l'état de la carte au 1er janvier 2007, 2008 jusqu'à 
> 2011, avec le rendu FR actuel.
>
> 15 ans et toujours une grande défiance de la part des institutions... comme 
> l'a très rugueusement rappelé Gaël il y a quelques semaines: 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9es9773wgIs=1805
>
> PS: dans moins d'une semaine je fêterai mes 10 ans d'ouverture de compte ;)
> --
> Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
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Re: [OSM-talk] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative

[Frederik Ramm]

Eugene,

do I understand correctly that you and your local partners aim to
recruit new mappers to OSM, who will not learn the "old fashioned"
workflow of tracing stuff from imagery by hand, but be mainly taught to
work with pre-processed Facebook road data?

How will you ensure that your partners give those new mappers a training
that is good enough to know when to *not* trust the pre-processed AI
data? All too often people automatically assume that "the computer is
always right", and this would be especially the case in a mapathon setup
where time is limited. Will local new recruits be taught to amend the
raw machine-generated data with their own knowledge, like street names,
road classification, surface...?

I think that while it is good to have quality measures in place, recent
experience with mapathons of all sorts have shown that quality assurance
for newbie-contributed stuff takes approximately as many person-hours as
contributing the stuff in the first place. How will you ensure that you
do not generate more contributions than you can ensure the quality for?

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

[Nuno Caldeira]

So maybe it is an unauthorized use of Mapbox. Anyone can sign up free. 
You should report it to Mapbox.


Nah, they stop replying me, they must have me on blacklist. Which goes a 
bit against their values "*Be respectful and humble.* To everyone — 
always." https://www.mapbox.com/about/values/


Speaking of them, seems their interpretation of ODbL is the same as mine:

The /text attribution/ contains at least three links: |© Mapbox| 
, |© OpenStreetMap| 
 and |Improve this map| 
. This 
_*attribution is strictly *__*/required/*_ when using the Mapbox 
Streets tileset due to OpenStreetMap's data source ODbL 
 license.


https://docs.mapbox.com/help/how-mapbox-works/attribution/



About DJI, i presume you know they stopped using Altitude Angel
(the company that omitted the attribution and runs
https://dronesafetymap.com/) and are now using Mapbox instead as
you can see here https://www.dji.com/pt/flysafe/geo-map Mapbox
owns me a cup of tea for another client, oh well i can refuse that
cup of tea for adding the attribution proudly and not behind "i"
or even omitting. Sometimes i think they are ashamed of using OSM
data instead of proudly showing it. It's not about the data, it's
what you do with it that matters and Mapbox does it well, but
hiding the source is dirty.

How do you know that they stopped using Altitude Angel? I can see from 
the map that they use Mapbox now, but can't they use more than one 
data source?


Yes, i do agree. Sounds like a good argument to remove the 50% of the 
guideline.



That might be your opinion, but I think a court would disagree. Courts 
often look at norms in order to interpret a licence.


This is the issue and feels like we are being abuse and pressured with 
the court/judge motive. When we shouldn't even go there but doing what's 
common sense. Maybe we should just switch to a public domain license, 
because that's what seems we have.



 The objects don't say anything about strict attribution requirements. 
In fact, requirements that are too strict will *discourage* the 
"distribution of free geospatial data" by making it too difficult to 
use. That's the opposite of "providing geospatial data for anybody to 
use and share."


Sure, i have send those concerns to the board. I don't see any 
difficulty to use it, you just need to attribute.



Great, so now you are saying that OSM has been doing it wrong since 
the beginning?


Well apparently we were tricked when we switched from CC to ODbL, 
judging by your opinion, we don't need this guidance or the copyright at 
all, with the argument of license doesn't say so.



"You must keep intact" means don't delete them, not, "can't be a 
link". That last clause is "to the extent reasonably practicable, the 
Uniform Resource Identifier, if any, that Licensor specifies to be 
associated with the Work." In other words, include a link if the 
Licensor wants you to include a link! No one has suggested that the 
attribution should be only (c) OpenStreetMap with no link back to 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright


So we are living in a lie since the beginning and dont need the 
attribution page at all. Please Board explain.



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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

[Richard Fairhurst]

Kathleen Lu wrote:
> "reasonably calculated" means "reasonable." What does reasonable mean? 
> Well a court would look at what other people in the industry do. Do others 
> in the industry list attribution, especially to multiple data sources,
> after 
> a click (or many clicks)? Yes, all the time.

It would be interesting to get some data behind this.

OSM's position when the current attribution text was drawn up in 2012 has
been exactly that: "reasonably calculated" means "what people would expect
for other data providers".

There are only three other geodata providers with a similar product to OSM,
i.e. a worldwide street-level database used for display maps: Google,
TomTom, and Here. In 2012 all three generally required direct on-map
attribution and my impression is that this is still the case, but real data
about current usage and practices would be great.

> A court would also look at what OSM does. Does OSM list its data sources
> after a link? Yes, sometimes two links (first to
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright, then to
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors). Some of this data is
> also under ODbL! Why is this not reasonable?

OSM expressly states that our "after a link" behaviour is not compliant with
licences such as ODbL and the CC-BY family. Instead, we need to get an
attribution waiver before using any data licensed under such terms. As per
https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Licence_Compatibility :

"Many sources simply require attribution of the source as a condition of
use, however as we cannot provide attribution on works created or derived
from OpenStreetMap data and our licence only requires attribution of the
overall data source, permission for attribution via our central
'Contributors' pages needs to be obtained and documented."

cheers
Richard



--
Sent from: http://gis.19327.n8.nabble.com/General-Discussion-f5171242.html

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[OSM-talk-fr] 15 bougies pour OSM !

[Christian Quest]

Et oui... déjà 15 ans !

Quel formidable travail collaboratif accomplit, il suffit de regarder un
peu en arrière pour mieux s'en rendre compte.

Voici une bonne occasion de rappeler l'existence de
https://osm.cquest.org/archeosm/
Vous pouvez y explorer l'état de la carte au 1er janvier 2007, 2008 jusqu'à
2011, avec le rendu FR actuel.

15 ans et toujours une grande défiance de la part des institutions... comme
l'a très rugueusement rappelé Gaël il y a quelques semaines:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9es9773wgIs=1805

PS: dans moins d'une semaine je fêterai mes 10 ans d'ouverture de compte ;)
-- 
Christian Quest - OpenStreetMap France
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Re: [talk-au] Considering future Open Geospatial conferences in Oceania

[John Bryant]

Hi all, forwarding a response from Alyssa Wright (with her permission):

Hi!
>
> I wanted to say that I think it's very important to have an Oceania FoSS4G
> / SOTM. The geography is so expansive in both mileage and innovation. There
> is so much going on.
>
> Maybe a bi-annual conference and/or coordination with HOT efforts in
> Indonesia would lighten the burden and diversify the funding/attendance/etc.
>
> And, if it makes a difference, we also have been having trouble finding
> hosts for SOTMUS.
>
> Anyway, I am not sure I can manage joining another email list ;( but I
> wanted to share my support for ongoing Oceania events. Let me know what I
> can do to help!
>
> Best,
> Alyssa.
>

On Thu, 8 Aug 2019 at 11:19, John Bryant  wrote:

> Hi all, please see the following message below:
>
> “What should we do about upcoming conferences for Free and Open Source
> Software for Geospatial (FOSS4G) and State of the Map (SotM) within our
> Oceania region?”
>
> Image by @mapmakerdavid
> 
>
> We didn’t have an answer to this question at the last OSGeo Oceania board
> meeting. At the moment, no one is volunteering to chair. No one is backing
> a city with commitment, and that is a problem we hope to solve.
>
> Pertinent is that the international FOSS4G will be held somewhere outside
> of Europe or North America in 2021 and a call for a two-page Expression Of
> Interest is coming in September
> . We have a very 
> compelling
> case
> 
> for bringing the international community to our region, if we try.
>
> Are you keen to see FOSS4G & SotM continue in our region? Do you have
> ideas about where and how? Would you like to help make it happen? Are you
> interested in mentoring or being mentored by a bunch of committed
> volunteers who have worked on prior FOSS4G events? If so, why don’t you
> talk to us? Come join our email list
>  and introduce
> yourself. We particularly want to hear ideas about what we should do about
> FOSS4G in the next two years.
>
> Some history:
>
>-
>
>2009: FOSS4G-International in Sydney. During the global financial
>crisis, we had lower attendance than expected, but managed to stay
>profitable when similar conferences were losing money.
>-
>
>2018: FOSS4G SotM Oceania in Melbourne. Exceeded expectations for
>size, sponsorship, activities, and engagement.
>-
>
>2019: FOSS4G SotM Oceania Wellington :
>Has already exceeded sponsorship targets and sold out early bird tickets
>within a week.
>-
>
>*2020: FOSS4G SotM Oceania: Where?*
>-
>
>*2021: FOSS4G-International Should we bid for it?*
>
>
> We are looking forward to hearing from you,
>
> John Bryant (OSGeo Oceania president) and Cameron Shorter (scribe).
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] Attribution guideline status update

[Joseph Eisenberg]

I'm just an individual mapper who would like more people to be aware
of Openstreetmap. I'm not a professional cartographer, nor do I have
any ties to any map providers.

My concern right now is that most of my friends and family are
completely unaware of the existence of Openstreetmap, even though our
data is powering many of the maps on their cell phones and many
website.

It's even hard to recommend apps like Maps.me when they don't
attribute Openstreetmap, instead putting their own logo in the lower
right corner.

If people don't know that OSM is the source of the data in a map, they
won't know how to get involved to improve it.

However the license wording is changed, the OSMF needs to convince
Mapbox and company to start actually attributing Openstreetmap in all
views, especially on mobile apps and platforms that the majority of
users see.

There shouldn't be exceptions which hide the Openstreetmap name.

This isn't a matter of pride, it's a matter of whether Openstreetmap
will grow and be recognized as an important source of geodata which
people ought to get involved in improving.

Joseph Eisenberg
Wamena, Indonesia

On 8/10/19, Kathleen Lu via talk  wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 9, 2019 at 3:27 PM Nuno Caldeira 
> wrote:
>
>> Your complaint about LiveStream is that their attribution is completely
>> missing, not that it's behind a click. I agree that it's missing and that
>> it should be somewhere. It's not clear at all where they are getting
>> their
>> data (the rendering looks like Leaflet). If they are looking into it,
>> then
>> why not believe they are looking into it? They will probably fix it after
>> they figure it out. DJI fixed it after investigating, and it took them a
>> while to investigate as well.
>>
>> By inspecting their code from the link i shared you get. src=
>> "https://b.tiles.mapbox.com/v3/livestreamllc.i64m05c3/16/18179/27868.png;
>> 
>> unless they are using Mapbox without their attribution which i presume
>> would be unauthorized use of Mapboxeither that or are premium clients
>> (i did asked them that, they didn't reply obviously). None the less I
>> gave
>> up on asking Mapbox to make sure their clients comply with our license
>> and
>> their terms of service, as they ignore it. Which is a shame coming from a
>> OSMF corporate member. Anyway i have asked, several times, even public,
>> another OSMF corporate member to do the same, still displaying HERE logo
>> on
>> our data. Probably they take HERE seriously (legal) and not OSMF or OSM
>> contributors.
>>
>> So maybe it is an unauthorized use of Mapbox. Anyone can sign up free.
>> You
> should report it to Mapbox.
>
>
>> About DJI, i presume you know they stopped using Altitude Angel (the
>> company that omitted the attribution and runs
>> https://dronesafetymap.com/)
>> and are now using Mapbox instead as you can see here
>> https://www.dji.com/pt/flysafe/geo-map Mapbox owns me a cup of tea for
>> another client, oh well i can refuse that cup of tea for adding the
>> attribution proudly and not behind "i" or even omitting. Sometimes i
>> think
>> they are ashamed of using OSM data instead of proudly showing it. It's
>> not
>> about the data, it's what you do with it that matters and Mapbox does it
>> well, but hiding the source is dirty.
>>
> How do you know that they stopped using Altitude Angel? I can see from the
> map that they use Mapbox now, but can't they use more than one data source?
>
>>
>> "reasonably calculated" means "reasonable." What does reasonable mean?
>> Well a court would look at what other people in the industry do. Do
>> others
>> in the industry list attribution, especially to multiple data sources,
>> after a click (or many clicks)? Yes, all the time.
>>
>> Discussing the reasonable definition is nonsense. Also comparing us to
>> the
>> others in the industry is not reasonable as we do not accept money for
>> providing data or removing attribution.
>>
> That might be your opinion, but I think a court would disagree. Courts
> often look at norms in order to interpret a licence.
>
>
>> Why not 100 click attribution? well that wasn't, isn't and never will be
>> the spirit of open data. Unless OSMF is going against it's owns Objects
>> of
>> the foundation articles:
>>
>> OBJECTS
>>
>> 3. The Foundation is established for the purposes listed below:
>> (1) encouraging the growth, development and distribution of free
>> geospatial data; and (2) providing geospatial data for anybody to use and
>> share.
>>
>>  The objects don't say anything about strict attribution requirements. In
> fact, requirements that are too strict will *discourage* the "distribution
> of free geospatial data" by making it too difficult to use. That's the
> opposite of "providing geospatial data for anybody to use and share."
>
>
>> A court would also look at what OSM does. Does OSM list its data sources
>> after a link? Yes, sometimes two links (first to
>> 

Re: [Talk-at] Way: 357911189

[forster]

Friedrich
Thanks for your comments
I changed waterway=riverbank to natural=scree
The map already had 2 river channels indicating a braided stream
I referenced our conversation in the changeset comments.
Tony


On 06.08.19 04:40, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote:
Way: 357911189 renders as a lake, in reality it is a scree   
slope/gravel bed with a braided stream running through it.


It is tagged waterway riverbank. Do you have any suggestions  
for better tagging?


This should be micro-mapped from aerial images. You need to compare
images from different years to see which parts of the area are
frequently changing, and which are not.
natural=scree seems fine for most oft that area. The green parts are
certainly natural=fell. waterway=riverbank is ok on the area around  E
11.6636714 / N 47.0004158, which is covered most of the time by the
varying branches of the stream.

I have never been to that region, but in general the alpine waterways
carry a lot more water in spring and early summer due to snowmelt. You
don't see these water levels in aerial images because they are taken
when the snow is gone. So it's possible that waterway=riverbank is
correct on a bigger area, but then it should be accompanied by
intermittent=yes. See
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/ephemeral for
ideas how to specify the season.

The waterway=stream itself should be adapted to the latest aerial
image. This may by outdated anyway, but it's still better than what is
mapped by now.

--
Friedrich K. Volkmann   http://www.volki.at/
Adr.: Davidgasse 76-80/14/10, 1100 Wien, Austria

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[OSM-talk] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Hello!

The community of OSM mappers in the Philippines are pleased to announce an
initiative to use AI or machine learning (ML)-derived data to help improve
the coverage of OpenStreetMap in the Philippines and we are calling it
Tabang-AI. This is word play on the Cebuano word *tábangay* which means
"collaboration" or "teamwork". We believe that AI and ML, when used
properly, and always with local mappers leading the effort, is a fruitful
complement to conventional forms of mapping in OSM.

One of the first projects under this initiative is related to the AI road
detection technology developed by Facebook under their Map With AI service (
https://mapwith.ai/). We requested Facebook to run their machine learning
models in the Philippines and they have provided the detected road data
through their RapiD editor.

Together with various local partners (LGUs, NGOs, etc.) that we have forged
from the recent Pista ng Mapa conference[1] in Dumaguete, we plan to
promote baseline road mapping throughout the country to further increase
data coverage. This will be implemented in several phases to ensure that
the data added to OSM conforms to the defined quality standards outlined by
the local community.

You can read more about this Tabang-AI initiative on the OSM Wiki:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Philippines/Tabang-AI

If you are in the Philippines and want to start coordinating map tasks
within your community, please feel free to reply to this email, or sent a
private message to osm.pilipinas+aimappingrequ...@gmail.com or create a
GitHub ticket here: https://github.com/OSMPH/Tabang-AI/issues/new

[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/GOwin/diary/390452

Regards,
Eugene
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[talk-ph] Announcing the Tabang-AI initiative

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

Hello!

We are pleased to announce an initiative to use AI or machine learning
(ML)-derived data to help improve the coverage of OpenStreetMap in the
Philippines and we are calling it Tabang-AI. This is word play on on
Cebuano word *tábangay* which means "collaboration" or "teamwork". We
believe that AI and ML, when used properly, and always with the local
mappers leading the effort, is a fruitful complement to conventional forms
of mapping in OSM.

One of the first projects under this initiative is related to the AI road
detection technology developed by Facebook under their Map With AI (
https://mapwith.ai/) service. We requested Facebook to run their machine
learning models in the Philippines and they have provided the detected road
data through their RapiD editor.

Together with various local partners (LGUs, NGOs, etc.) that we have forged
from the recent Pista ng Mapa conference in Dumaguete, we plan to promote
baseline road mapping throughout the country to further increase data
coverage. This will be implemented in several phases to ensure that the
data added to OSM conforms to the defined quality standards outlined by the
local community.

You can read more about this initiative on the OSM Wiki:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Philippines/Tabang-AI

If you want to start coordinating map tasks within your community, please
feel free to reply to this email, or sent a private message to
osm.pilipinas+aimappingrequ...@gmail.com or create a GitHub ticket here:
https://github.com/OSMPH/Tabang-AI/issues/new

Happy mapping!
Eugene
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