[Talk-si] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Test Import of forum.osm.org to community.osm.org

[Stefan Baebler]

-- Forwarded message -
From: Grant Slater 
Date: Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 1:27 PM
Subject: [OSM-talk] Test Import of forum.osm.org to community.osm.org
To: Talk Openstreetmap 


Hi OSM Talk,

In the near future we will be moving the old forum.osm.org content to
community.openstreetmap.org

If you used the old forum, please login to the test import site
https://forum-import-test.openstreetmap.org/ to check your old posts.

The imported content is at the bottom half of the test import site.
The database snapshot used for the test is from 02 Feb 2023.

The old forum has 847000+ posts by 35000+ users in 91 categories. The
longest thread has 14700+ posts!
The old forum used fluxbb bbcode markdown, while
community.openstreetmap.org uses discourse's flavour of markdown.
The import markdown conversion can never be 100%, but it now appears
to have reached "good enough".

We heavily extended the original fluxbb discourse importer with
additional features:
* Significantly improved fluxbb bbcode -> discourse markdown
converter, including fixes.
* Added Permalink support (To test for now use old forum url path +
parameters on forum-import-test.openstreetmap.org)
* OSM specific old forum to community account merging allowing
seamless login using osm.org account oauth flow.
* Added unit tests

We are trying to contribute the improvements upstream where appropriate.

There will also be a few tasks the forum governance team will be
responsible for post final import, notably:
* Manually merge duplicate categories (eg: country categories)
* Mark old abandoned categories as read-only.
* Manually merge duplicate users where the importer did not
automatically merge (very limited cases).

Big thank you to Harry Wood, Tom Hughes and others who have helped
write code, fix bugs or assisted in other ways.

Kind regards,

Grant
Part of the OpenStreetMap Ops Team

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Re: [Talk-si] OSM discourse

[Stefan Baebler]

Na https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/slovenia-subcategory/3325/18
poteka glasovanje o predlaganih moderatorjih.

Vabljeni!

lp,
Štefan

On Wed, Nov 9, 2022 at 5:53 PM Stefan Baebler  wrote:
>
> Živijo!
>
> Kot ste verjetno že opazili se OSM forum
> https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=58
> počasi poslavlja in ga nadomešča sodobnejši discourse, kjer smo že
> zaprosili za podkategorijo za Slovenijo:
> https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/slovenia-subcategory/3325
> ...kjer trenutno izbiramo moderatorje.
>
> Vabljeni, da se nam pridružite!
>
> lp,
> Štefan

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[Talk-si] OSM discourse

[Stefan Baebler]

Živijo!

Kot ste verjetno že opazili se OSM forum
https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewforum.php?id=58
počasi poslavlja in ga nadomešča sodobnejši discourse, kjer smo že
zaprosili za podkategorijo za Slovenijo:
https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/slovenia-subcategory/3325
...kjer trenutno izbiramo moderatorje.

Vabljeni, da se nam pridružite!

lp,
Štefan

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Re: [Talk-si] menjava e-maila

[Stefan Baebler]

Zanimiva situacija.

Za avtomatsko ponastavitev gesla je potrebno imeti dostop do poštnega
predala, ki ga imaš nastavljenega v svojem OSM profilu, zato to ne bo šlo.

Prepričati boš moral kakšnega skrbnika, da si ti res ista oseba ki je imela
račun, saj s tem varujejo podatke in zasebnost originalnega lastnika računa
(tebe ;-)). Malenkost lažje bi bilo, če bi v svojem profilu imel še kakšno
povezavo na svoje druge profile, do katerih še imaš dostop.

Razmisli tudi o tem, da skrbnika tvojega bivšega poštnega predala
prepričaš, da naj ti vsaj začasno posreduje (samodejno ali ročno le to)
pošto na tvoj novi naslov.

Lahko poskusiš stopiti v stik s skrbniki po kakem drugem kanalu:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contact_channels

Če boš potreboval kakšno pomoč pri dokazovanju svoje identitete ali borbo z
lokalno oblastjo pa le povej.

Lp,
Štefan


On Fri, May 1, 2020 at 5:56 PM Roman Maurer  wrote:

> Zdravo!
>
> V OpenStreetMap.org sem bil pred leti registriran z e-naslovom, ki ga zdaj
> ne uporabljam več in niti nimam več dostopa do njega za ponastavitev gesla.
> Zdaj sem se spet spomnil, da bi nekaj prispeval, a bi rad uporabljal stari
> račun (romanm), seveda z novim e-naslovom.
>
> Ali morda kdo od vas ve, komu naj pišem, da mi spremenijo podatke za
> prijavo na nov e-naslov?
>
> LP, Roman
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

[Stefan Baebler]

Yes, this is the one.
I don't mind waiting for the approval process, but when the user has no
feedback "thanks for the photo, please wait few days for review before it
can be seen" it might give impression that something didn't work,
discouraging them from further uploads. You could even show the photos (on
map and panorama) to their logged-in authors/uploaders without any approval.

Interestingly, when i open my uploaded panorama on the phone (same as the
picture was taken with) it says:
"Your panorama is too big for your device! It's 8704px wide, but your
device only supports images up to 8192px wide. Try another device. (If you
are the author try scaling down the image.)"
Some quick googling confirmed that this is a WebGL device driver limitation.
https://github.com/mpetroff/pannellum/issues/444

br,
Štefan

On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 7:23 PM Nick Whitelegg 
wrote:

>
> Hello Stefan,
>
>
> Sorry - I have to approve panos before they go live, I've done this now.
> This is to guard against panos with privacy violations or unsuitable
> content. I presume yours is the one in the Alps at:
>
>
> https://www.opentrailview.org/?id=82
>
>
> I generally check for updates daily. This is the only one I can see, did
> you try others? Note that you have to upload them one at a time, it will
> not do multiple file uploads in one go.
>
>
> Thanks for your suggestions, will implement them as soon as I can.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick
>
> --
> *From:* Stefan Baebler 
> *Sent:* 30 August 2019 07:46:23
> *To:* Nick Whitelegg 
> *Cc:* Simon Polster ; osm-talk 
> *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates
>
> Thanks, the uploading works now!
>
> However, I cannot see my uploaded photospheres anywhere on the site, not
> even while being logged in, logging in again Neither on the map nor on
> some list. Not sure if it was successful or not.
>
> Few suggestions:
> - make it so that the uploader sees his own uploads immediately (no
> pending approvals etc needed) with a status clearly shown
> - allow for lower zoom levels. Panning away from your demo area is slow in
> high zooms.
> - search box should trigger searching when enter key is pressed
> - after login you should remove oauth_token from the URL (either via
> JavaScript history.push or http redirect)
> - persist current coordinates in the URL, so it is easy to share and
> bookmark links (there are plugins for leaflet, eg leaflet-hash)
> - make the site more mobile friendly (text is extremely unreadable,
> buttons hard to hit...)
>
> Thanks,
> Stefan
>
> V sre., 28. avg. 2019 19:11 je oseba Nick Whitelegg <
> nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk> napisala:
>
>
> Hello Stefan,
>
>
> Have increased limit to 15 MB now - let me know if you still have
> problems. Still not mobile friendly just yet - will do this when I have the
> time.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick
>
> --
> *From:* Stefan Baebler 
> *Sent:* 25 August 2019 22:33:38
> *To:* Nick Whitelegg 
> *Cc:* Simon Polster ; osm-talk 
> *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates
>
> Hi!
>
> I have problems uploading full 360°*180° photospheres. All of them are
> around 10MB, and could not find any below 5MB to test with. The error does
> not say much - no photo uploaded and no error code.
>
> The size limit should be raised (eg to 15MB) in my opinion as there is no
> easy option to compress such images (eg by lowering the resolution).
>
> Also the website is really hard to use on mobile devices. :-(
>
> Br,
> Stefan
>
>
>
>
> V pet., 16. avg. 2019 19:05 je oseba Nick Whitelegg <
> nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk> napisala:
>
>
> Hello Simon,
>
>
> Glad it's working for you!
>
>
> It looks like it should be possible to show the view field on the map - a
> Leaflet plugin exists to draw semicircles for example, so I'll have a look
> into that - shouldn't be too difficult to implement.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick
>
> --
> *From:* Simon Polster 
> *Sent:* 15 August 2019 18:17:46
> *To:* talk@openstreetmap.org 
> *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates
>
> Looks very nice and works very smoothly for me, thank you!
>
> One functionality I think would be useful for orientation: somehow make
> the current viewfield of the panorama visible in the little overview map
> (or if that's too difficult to implement at least link the rotation of
> the panorama with the overview map so that they always share the same
> geographic direction).
>
> Cheers
> Simon
>
> Am 06/08/2019 um 16:58 schrieb Nick Whitelegg:
> >
> > Hi,
> >

Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

[Stefan Baebler]

Thanks, the uploading works now!

However, I cannot see my uploaded photospheres anywhere on the site, not
even while being logged in, logging in again Neither on the map nor on
some list. Not sure if it was successful or not.

Few suggestions:
- make it so that the uploader sees his own uploads immediately (no pending
approvals etc needed) with a status clearly shown
- allow for lower zoom levels. Panning away from your demo area is slow in
high zooms.
- search box should trigger searching when enter key is pressed
- after login you should remove oauth_token from the URL (either via
JavaScript history.push or http redirect)
- persist current coordinates in the URL, so it is easy to share and
bookmark links (there are plugins for leaflet, eg leaflet-hash)
- make the site more mobile friendly (text is extremely unreadable, buttons
hard to hit...)

Thanks,
Stefan

V sre., 28. avg. 2019 19:11 je oseba Nick Whitelegg <
nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk> napisala:

>
> Hello Stefan,
>
>
> Have increased limit to 15 MB now - let me know if you still have
> problems. Still not mobile friendly just yet - will do this when I have the
> time.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick
>
> ------
> *From:* Stefan Baebler 
> *Sent:* 25 August 2019 22:33:38
> *To:* Nick Whitelegg 
> *Cc:* Simon Polster ; osm-talk 
> *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates
>
> Hi!
>
> I have problems uploading full 360°*180° photospheres. All of them are
> around 10MB, and could not find any below 5MB to test with. The error does
> not say much - no photo uploaded and no error code.
>
> The size limit should be raised (eg to 15MB) in my opinion as there is no
> easy option to compress such images (eg by lowering the resolution).
>
> Also the website is really hard to use on mobile devices. :-(
>
> Br,
> Stefan
>
>
>
>
> V pet., 16. avg. 2019 19:05 je oseba Nick Whitelegg <
> nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk> napisala:
>
>
> Hello Simon,
>
>
> Glad it's working for you!
>
>
> It looks like it should be possible to show the view field on the map - a
> Leaflet plugin exists to draw semicircles for example, so I'll have a look
> into that - shouldn't be too difficult to implement.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick
>
> --
> *From:* Simon Polster 
> *Sent:* 15 August 2019 18:17:46
> *To:* talk@openstreetmap.org 
> *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates
>
> Looks very nice and works very smoothly for me, thank you!
>
> One functionality I think would be useful for orientation: somehow make
> the current viewfield of the panorama visible in the little overview map
> (or if that's too difficult to implement at least link the rotation of
> the panorama with the overview map so that they always share the same
> geographic direction).
>
> Cheers
> Simon
>
> Am 06/08/2019 um 16:58 schrieb Nick Whitelegg:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > To follow up my post of a couple of months ago, I have made a few
> updates to OpenTrailView, a StreetView-like application which allows users
> to upload 360 panoramas which will then be automatically linked using
> underlying OSM ways, allowing users to navigate from panorama to panorama.
> >
> >
> > It now allows you to login with your OSM credentials, removing the need
> to create a separate account - in fact I have removed the signup facility
> so if you signed up before, you should now login using your OSM username
> instead.
> >
> >
> > It also has a facility to allow you to set the position of a panorama if
> EXIF latitude and longitude metadata is not present. This can be done
> either by clicking on the map to position the panorama, or by using a GPX
> file recorded at the same time to position panoramas automatically by using
> EXIF and GPX timestamps.
> >
> >
> > URL: https://www.opentrailview.org/
> >
> >
> > <https://www.opentrailview.org/>
> >
> > Gitlab repo: https://gitlab.com/nickw1/opentrailview/
> >
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates

[Stefan Baebler]

Hi!

I have problems uploading full 360°*180° photospheres. All of them are
around 10MB, and could not find any below 5MB to test with. The error does
not say much - no photo uploaded and no error code.

The size limit should be raised (eg to 15MB) in my opinion as there is no
easy option to compress such images (eg by lowering the resolution).

Also the website is really hard to use on mobile devices. :-(

Br,
Stefan




V pet., 16. avg. 2019 19:05 je oseba Nick Whitelegg <
nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk> napisala:

>
> Hello Simon,
>
>
> Glad it's working for you!
>
>
> It looks like it should be possible to show the view field on the map - a
> Leaflet plugin exists to draw semicircles for example, so I'll have a look
> into that - shouldn't be too difficult to implement.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nick
>
> --
> *From:* Simon Polster 
> *Sent:* 15 August 2019 18:17:46
> *To:* talk@openstreetmap.org 
> *Subject:* Re: [OSM-talk] OpenTrailView - updates
>
> Looks very nice and works very smoothly for me, thank you!
>
> One functionality I think would be useful for orientation: somehow make
> the current viewfield of the panorama visible in the little overview map
> (or if that's too difficult to implement at least link the rotation of
> the panorama with the overview map so that they always share the same
> geographic direction).
>
> Cheers
> Simon
>
> Am 06/08/2019 um 16:58 schrieb Nick Whitelegg:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> > To follow up my post of a couple of months ago, I have made a few
> updates to OpenTrailView, a StreetView-like application which allows users
> to upload 360 panoramas which will then be automatically linked using
> underlying OSM ways, allowing users to navigate from panorama to panorama.
> >
> >
> > It now allows you to login with your OSM credentials, removing the need
> to create a separate account - in fact I have removed the signup facility
> so if you signed up before, you should now login using your OSM username
> instead.
> >
> >
> > It also has a facility to allow you to set the position of a panorama if
> EXIF latitude and longitude metadata is not present. This can be done
> either by clicking on the map to position the panorama, or by using a GPX
> file recorded at the same time to position panoramas automatically by using
> EXIF and GPX timestamps.
> >
> >
> > URL: https://www.opentrailview.org/
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > Gitlab repo: https://gitlab.com/nickw1/opentrailview/
> >
> >
> > Nick
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] handling street names in speech

[Stefan Baebler]

I think IPA (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet
) would address that problem, but that would require many more tags, which
are not trivial for mappers to write.

Br,
Štefan


V tor., 16. jul. 2019 17:55 je oseba Colin Smale 
napisala:

> The reason for wanting to expand abbreviations in OSM is surely to avoid
> ambiguity, not specifically to aid pronunciation or recognition. In the
> case of "1e ..." in a certain language context, would that not be
> unambiguous? Would a speech synthesiser not know how it should be spoken in
> its working language?
>
> Slight digression: The question does arise of which rules to use to
> pronounce foreign names. If I am in Warsaw for example and my satnav
> started pronouncing street names in pure Polish I might not recognise any
> of them (apologies to any Poles in the audience). But how would it speak
> such that I would recognise it, if I was looking for a string with loads of
> Ws and Zs that means nothing to me? Use English rules to pronounce a Polish
> word?
>
> On the other hand, if I was in Paris, I would expect it to use French
> rules, because I understand French and using English rules would sound
> weird although it might well give a lot of laughs...
>
>
>
> On 2019-07-16 17:36, John Whelan wrote:
>
> This approach I like.  Name:expanded perhaps?
>
> To go back to earlier ideas.
>
> Expanding the name sounds sensible but unfortunately the street signs are
> posted with the abbreviation and some local mappers have a what is on the
> sign goes in the map mentality.  Also we have had discussions about street
> names in Canada before and the decision was what the municipality declares
> the street name is correct.  That was to do with either "rue Sparks" or
> should it be "Rue Sparks" in Quebec it would be one way but in Ontario the
> other.
>
> Thoughts
>
> Thanks John
>
> Colin Smale wrote on 2019-07-16 11:30 AM:
>
> On 2019-07-16 16:54, John Whelan wrote:
>
> One or two are problematic usually as the street name is an
> abbreviation.For example 1e Avenue in French meaning First Avenue.
>
> Any suggestions on how these should be handled?  This particular
> application is aimed at partially sighted people but I feel we should be
> able to come up with a generic solution.
>
> Some kind of phonetic (IPA?) representation would be the ultimate generic
> solution. Here in NL (and I guess in many other countries) there are street
> names which are partially or entirely in other languages, and the
> expectation is that they are pronounced as such. For example, Boeing Avenue
> would sound completely weird if it were pronounced according to Dutch
> rules. Truly multi-lingual countries like Belgium and Switzerland should be
> able to make use of name:XX.
>
> If we had name:XX:ipa=* we would have a place to put it, but the client
> app would need to have a way of turning that into sounds. It will only be
> needed if the pronunciation deviates from the standard for the language in
> question, but speech synthesisers are never perfect and often make
> mistakes
>
>
> https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/264239/is-there-any-online-tool-to-read-pronounce-ipa-and-apa-written-words
>
> Of course we will also need a way of entering IPA symbols
>
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] handling street names in speech

[Stefan Baebler]

Hints to the speaker (human or TTS engine) can be provided via:
1) pronunciation tag:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Phonetics eg
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name:pronunciation
2) teach it how to expand appreviations in different languages, eg
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name_finder:Abbreviations
3) Both :)

br,
Štefan

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 5:23 PM Mateusz Konieczny 
wrote:

> The same happened in Poland, abbreviations are expanded.
>
>
> 16 Jul 2019, 17:02 by nunocapelocalde...@gmail.com:
>
> in Portugal the community has agreed not to use abreviations.
>
> A terça, 16/07/2019, 15:58, John Whelan  escreveu:
>
> One or two are problematic usually as the street name is an
> abbreviation.For example 1e Avenue in French meaning First Avenue.
>
> Any suggestions on how these should be handled?  This particular
> application is aimed at partially sighted people but I feel we should be
> able to come up with a generic solution.
>
> Thanks John
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Sent from Postbox 
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Re: [Talk-si] Začetniška vprašanja

[Stefan Baebler]

Popravek popravka :-)

Pri avtocestah in drugih večjih cestah, kjer sta nasprotni vozišči fizično
ločeni sta običajno vrisana vsako vozišče posebej kot enosmerna cesta
(smerno vozišče)

Vnaša se lahko tudi pasove, vendar praviloma ne kot ločene (vzporedne)
poti, ampak s tagi na osnovni cesti (oz voziščem).

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lanes

Stvar renderinga je pa ali se to kje prikaže ali ne. Jaz tega še nisem
videl izrisanega s takšnimi podrobnostmi na spletnem zemljevidu, se pa to
pojavlja v navigacijah, kjer vozniku pomaga pri razporejanju pred
križiščem. Nekaj takšnih primerov je videti na
https://github.com/osmandapp/OsmAnd-ios/issues/148

Lp,
Štefan

ned., 10. feb. 2019 18:05 je oseba Igor Brejc 
napisala:

> Zdravo,
>
> En popravek glede voznih pasov:
>
> On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 11:16 AM colored stone 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> *Ali se da kako zrenderirati ceste tako, da se vidijo tudi vozni
>> pasovi? Lahko tudi samo ob velikem zoomu. Po možnosti z oznakami, kam se
>> iz katerega pasu lahko zavija? *
>>
>> Nekatere ceste (npr. dvopasovnice, avtoceste) se vnašajo z vsaki voznim
>> pasovom posebej.
>>
>
> Verjetno si mislil(a) z vsakim smernim voziščem posebej (terminologija iz
> https://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avtocesta). Pasovi se načeloma ne vnašajo
> posebej, razen mogoče pri dvopasovnicah z nivojskimi križišči, ko se
> pojavijo dodatni pasovi za zaviti v levo ali desno. Drugače se ena smer
> npr. avtoceste riše kot en sam way, ne glede na to, ali ima enega, dva, tri
> ali več voznih pasov. Glej
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway#How_to_map
>
> Lep pozdrav,
> Igor
>
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Re: [Talk-si] Geodetski podatki license

[Stefan Baebler]

Aaah, tnx for the hint, I thought it should be a valid GeoJSON, will try
that instead!

Br,
Štefan

pon., 19. nov. 2018 19:38 je oseba Cascafico Giovanni 
napisala:

> AFAIK conflator input should be a json, kinda this:
>
> [
> {
>   "id"  : 2383,
>   "lat" : 45.465571,
>   "lon" : 9.16906,
>   "tags" : {
>"ref:MI_ds634" : "2383",
>"addr:street" : "Corso Magenta",
>"addr:housenumber" : "75",
>"addr:city" : "Milano"
>}
> }
> ,
> [...]
> ]
>
> To check json syntax, you can use command line jsonlint. I use to compile
> a json starting from csv thru openrefine, which features an easy export
> with preview.
>
> Il giorno lun 19 nov 2018 alle ore 14:37 Stefan Baebler <
> stefan.baeb...@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
>> Hey!
>>
>> Yes, the import is being prepared, see
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Slovenia_Address_Import
>> and there is some code
>> https://github.com/openstreetmap-si/GursAddressesForOSM
>> which produces the geojson files for whole Slovenia, broken down to
>> individual places, eg:
>> https://gist.github.com/stefanb/89717192016bf16d00e455a156cc0a2c
>>
>> Currently we need to master the conflation (planned to use OSM
>> conflator). I have reached out to Ilya Zverev (author of osm conflator) for
>> some hints, but am still waiting for his response.
>> Perhaps you have some hint for us, considering that you dealt with
>> conflation in Milan - https://github.com/cascafico/MilanoHousenumbers ?
>> :)
>>
>> with your conflation profile (
>> https://github.com/cascafico/MilanoHousenumbers/blob/master/conflation/profile.py
>> ) on my sample data (gist linked above) i get an error:
>>
>> GursAddressesForOSM stefanb$ conflate -i
>> data/slovenia/Log-Dragomer/Lukovica_pri_Brezovici-housenumbers.geojson -v
>> -c
>> data/slovenia/Log-Dragomer/Lukovica_pri_Brezovici-housenumbers-preview.geojson
>> -o data/slovenia/Log-Dragomer/Lukovica_pri_Brezovici-housenumbers.osm
>> miprofile.py
>> 14:31:33 Loading profile > 0x10a212780>
>> 14:31:33 Failed to parse the source as a JSON
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/usr/local/bin/conflate", line 11, in 
>> sys.exit(run())
>>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/conflate/conflate.py",
>> line 140, in run
>> dataset = read_dataset(profile, options.source)
>>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/conflate/dataset.py", line
>> 61, in read_dataset
>> required='returns a list of SourcePoints with the dataset'))
>>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/conflate/profile.py", line
>> 56, in get
>> raise ProfileException(attr, required)
>>   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/conflate/profile.py", line
>> 9, in __init__
>> super().__init__('Field missing in profile: {} ({})'.format(attr,
>> desc))
>> TypeError: super() takes at least 1 argument (0 given)
>>
>> Same happened with a profile i wrote based on one of the reference ones
>> in the conflator github repository.
>>
>> The building outlines raster from same source (GURS) is available as
>> underlay in JOSM and and ID editor (I prepared that with help and hosting
>> on the server of German OSM community - FOSSGIS).
>> I am considering to have buildings imported at the same time as
>> housenumbers, including the building heights :)
>>
>> br,
>> Štefan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 19, 2018 at 11:32 AM Cascafico Giovanni 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your detailed answer.
>>>
>>> During a brief stay in Dravograd I mapped some addresses and I used
>>> building shape dataset to make some adjustments, so I wanted to be sure I
>>> don't need to revert :-)
>>>
>>> Then, browsing other GURS CC-BY data, I ran into a nationwide addresses
>>> dataset. I don't have any contacs with slovenian OSM community, so wonder
>>> if an import has already been planned. If so, I'd be interested in import
>>> approach, since in the future it could be replicated in Italy, particularly
>>> in already well mapped areas that need conflation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Il giorno mer 7 nov 2018 alle ore 13:30 Stefan Baebler <
>>> stefan.baeb...@gmai

Re: [OSM-talk] JOSM plugin to import GeoJSON?

[Stefan Baebler]

Hi!

On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 12:56 AM, Stefan Keller  wrote:
>
> I of course know Shapefiles but they are deprecated because e.g. they
> cut-off field names at 10 chars. GeoJSON or GeoPackage are better
> alternatives.
>

For RABA-KGZ landuse import in Slovenia we pushed the-10 character limit in
shapefiles / dbf to 11 characters and even inserted special characters
(colons) in field name (to allow us to have "source:date" tag) by altering
the binary data using bbe (sed-like binary block editor) as the last step
of data preparation:
bbe -e "s/SOURCEDATE\x00/source:date/" source.dbf -o target.dbf

JOSM reads it nicely using OpenData plugin, as well as QGIS and other
editors.

Full example and context can be seen at
https://github.com/stefanb/RabaSplitForOSM/blob/master/makeOneSplitExplode.sh#L94

Example shapefiles can be seen (in browser and in JOSM) at
http://raba.openstreetmap.si

best regards,
Stefan
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[OSM-legal-talk] Preventing vandalism by omitting attribution?

[Stefan Baebler]

Hi!

Over the weekend i noticed an insurance company's advertisement for driver
grading app, which is:
a) showing OSM map tiles with no attribution (neither by the map nor in any
legalese text)
b) presumably using OSM's maxspeed data to detect traffic violations from
driver's traces

The insurance company is giving discounts to safe drivers based on their
grades.
Nice approach to improve traffic safety and increase their profits.

It is fairly obvious that they should add the attribution for the tiles at
least, but increased OSM visibility/recognition might encourage vandalism
(raising maxspeed limits or simply deleting them or even deleting the whole
roads / areas) with monetary incentive.

How about if they show other (eg Google tiles) but still use OSM data in
their backend for grading? Where should the attribution be placed in such
case?

We haven't contacted the offender yet, so we don't know yet if they even
realize their contractor is offering the service based on OSM data or are
they purposely omitting attribution, violating the OSM license in the
process.

How can we accurately verify OSM use in the backend without introducing
bogus (copyright easter egg) maxspeed data?

Are there any legal requirements regarding their data (driver's gathered
traces, their OSM data fixes) towards OSM? Probably not for  traces, but
any possibly fixed OSM data should be contributed back to OSM. (Easter eggs
in form of 1km/h speed limit around their offices comes to mind :) )

Is there any prior practice with such situations? Any suggestions as to how
to proceed in this specific situation apart from what is already written in
wiki ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lacking_proper_attribution ) ?

best regards,
Stefan
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Re: [OSM-talk] a, b and c.tile.openstreetmap.org refer to the same server?

[Stefan Baebler]

18. maj 2015 10.30 pop. je oseba Andrew Guertin andrew.guer...@uvm.edu
napisala:
 Whether the new limits are sufficiently high for OSM I haven't
investigated enough to answer.

Browser limits, network speeds and screen resolutions all increased in the
recent years, but tile size stayed at 256*256.

To put this in perspective, currently trending 1920*1080 needs 40-54 tiles
for a full screen map, whereas 1024*768 (most popular in 2009) only needed
12-20.
Source: http:// http://www.screenresolution.org/www.screenresolution.org/
http://www.screenresolution.org/ + quick calculation.

Average tile complexity also increased somewhat, increasing their average
size in kB.

Using a,b,c hostname aliases only increases initial DNS resolution time.

This hack IMO still serves as a relatively cheap performance boost... until
HTTP 2 is widely used.

best regards,
Stefan
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Re: [OSM-talk] iD name suggestion index - asking non-English-speaking mappers to review

[Stefan Baebler]

I see Petrol is categorized under discardedNames, but is is in fact a
valid full name of company with chain of gas pumps in Slovenia (
www.petrol.si).

Are there many other similar cases that would make it worthwhile to make
this functionality location-aware, dependant on regions (countries,
continents, languages)?

Best regards,
Štefan
 16. maj 2015 11.08 pop. je oseba Mateusz Konieczny matkoni...@gmail.com
napisala:

 On Sat, 16 May 2015 20:07:00 +0200
 Michał Brzozowski www.ha...@gmail.com wrote:

  I ask non-English speakers to find anything they are sure it's a noun
  and not a proper name. name-suggestions.json specifies name
  suggestions and filter.json specifies what non-names should be
  filtered.

 Sklep spożywczy (Polish for grocery store)
 Apteka (Polish for pharmacy)

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Re: [Talk-si] nov maper razsaja po Sloveniji

[Stefan Baebler]

Absolutno, sem mu povsod prijazno napisal razlog revertanja in predlog za
izboljšavo (uporaba relacij).

Lp,
Štefan
Najboljse da se mu se napise kaj dela narobe. Ceprav se to malokdaj
uposteva. Sam sem poiskusal nekega mariborskega mapperja prepricat da naj
uporablja ustaljeno shemo za wifi in ostalo pa vstraja na svoji ki se
seveda ne prikazuje nikjer in vstavlja podatke v bistvu brez ucinka.

Sent from my BlackBerry® PlayBook™
www.blackberry.com

--
*From:* Stefan Baebler stefan.baeb...@gmail.com
*To:* Blaž Lorger blaz.lor...@krs.net
*CC:* OSM-Talk-Si talk-si@openstreetmap.org
*Sent:* May 1, 2015 10:53 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Talk-si] nov maper razsaja po Sloveniji

Sem pregledal še vse njegove ostale prispevke in je žal v vseh zelo grobo
dodajal bodisi pešpoti ali kolesarske steze po obstoječih poteh, zato sem
revertal še vse ostale njegove prispevke.

lp,
Štefan

2015-05-01 21:55 GMT+02:00 Stefan Baebler:

 Ja, tudi od Ljubljanie do Višnje gore je naredil eno takšno dolgo stezico:
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/341018171
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/30557944
 Posnetek: http://imgur.com/DLZpqqg
 Sem mu vpisal komentar k chagesetu in brez zadržkov naredil revert (
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/30701724 )
 Ponavadi bi najprej odprl debato in mu predlagal, da zadevo popravi,
ampak se bojim, da bi pri tem nastalo več škode kot koristi, odlašanje pa
bi kvečjemu otežilo kasnejši revert.

 Ostali uporabnikovi prispevki:
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Tanch/history
 Po komentarjih changesetov se bojim, da so vsi zelo podobni.

 lp,
 Štefan


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Re: [OSM-talk] Find all your unresolved Notes

[Stefan Baebler]

Odlično / Excellent!
Just fix the case sensitivity of usernames during search.
Filtering for unresolved notes should be implemented also on the user's
notes page on the main OSM website somehow to encourage mappers to
follow-up on them and resolve them.

Štefan
Dne 3. feb. 2015 23.22 je oseba Matija Nalis 
mnalis-openstreetmapl...@voyager.hr napisala:

 OSM Notes are quite useful feature, and if you take advantage of it, you'd
 have a lots of Notes.  Vast majority of them resolved and closed, of
 course,
 since you're an active mapper.

 However, those that remain open will likely be lost forever, as browsing
 your OSM user pages through dozens (and hundreds) of closed Notes (until
 you
 find open one) is very tedious. And if you have multiple accounts (and/or
 are
 tutoring your SO and friends in OSM), the pain in finding older unresolved
 Notes increases exponentially.

 So I've made a web script that shows you ONLY open notes for specified user
 (or several of them).

 You can use it at: http://my-notes.osm-hr.org/

 (or go grab the source yourself at https://github.com/osm-hr/my-osm-notes
 )

 --
 Opinions above are GNU-copylefted.


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Re: [Talk-si] shifted boundaries between Slovenia, Croatia and Hungary

[Stefan Baebler]

Yes, i too was fixing the broken relations a while ago:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/26805749
when user foringas moved the border without taking care of the relations as
well.
I resisted from moving the border in any way, just fixed the broken
relations.

The border between Croatia and Slovenia is disputed in some places, most
notably the maritime border in the Adriatic sea and along the ever-shifting
river meanders in Panonian plain.
The arbitration in The Hague is still ongoing:
http://www.pca-cpa.org/showpage.asp?pag_id=1443
I suggest we wait for the outcome of arbitration instead of moving the
border back and forth in a futile edit war.

all best,
Štefan

On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 12:13 AM, arch_a...@t-online.de 
arch_a...@t-online.de wrote:


 Hi,

 can someone with local knowledge take a look at the edits of the mapper
 foringas? He has damaged the country boundaries between Hungary, Slovenia
 and Croatia several times in the last few months. He has also shifted the
 borderline between those countries. I can't evaluate if the changes of the
 country boundaries are ok or if those changes are politically motivated.

 boundary changes between Croatia and Slovenia:
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/27773009
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/26795077

 changes between Hungary and Croatia:
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/26772180
 There may be other changes I didn't notice.

 I've already fixed some damaged boundaries [1] but I didn't revert the
 shifted boundaries as far as possible.

 Best regards,

 4rch

 [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/27811545

 
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Re: [Talk-si] shifted boundaries between Slovenia, Croatia and Hungary

[Stefan Baebler]

There is the brief discussion i had with the user foringas about his
changes: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/26795077

All best,
Štefan

On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 1:08 AM, Stefan Baebler stefan.baeb...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Yes, i too was fixing the broken relations a while ago:
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/26805749
 when user foringas moved the border without taking care of the relations
 as well.
 I resisted from moving the border in any way, just fixed the broken
 relations.

 The border between Croatia and Slovenia is disputed in some places, most
 notably the maritime border in the Adriatic sea and along the ever-shifting
 river meanders in Panonian plain.
 The arbitration in The Hague is still ongoing:
 http://www.pca-cpa.org/showpage.asp?pag_id=1443
 I suggest we wait for the outcome of arbitration instead of moving the
 border back and forth in a futile edit war.

 all best,
 Štefan

 On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 12:13 AM, arch_a...@t-online.de 
 arch_a...@t-online.de wrote:


 Hi,

 can someone with local knowledge take a look at the edits of the mapper
 foringas? He has damaged the country boundaries between Hungary, Slovenia
 and Croatia several times in the last few months. He has also shifted the
 borderline between those countries. I can't evaluate if the changes of the
 country boundaries are ok or if those changes are politically motivated.

 boundary changes between Croatia and Slovenia:
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/27773009
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/26795077

 changes between Hungary and Croatia:
 https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/26772180
 There may be other changes I didn't notice.

 I've already fixed some damaged boundaries [1] but I didn't revert the
 shifted boundaries as far as possible.

 Best regards,

 4rch

 [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/27811545

 
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Re: [Talk-si] Fwd: [OpenStreetMap] Imamo dovoljenje!

[Stefan Baebler]

Pozdravljeni!

Za boljše razumevanje smo pripravili pregledovalnik podatkov, ki jih lahko
uvozimo v OSM: http://raba.openstreetmap.si/
Več o tem in debata pa na:
Forumu: http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=27289
Wikiju:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Slovenia_Landcover_Import_-_RABA-KGZ

Vzemite si nekaj časa in preglejte svoja področja in podajte svoje
komentarje, opažanja, pripombe, predloge...

lp,
Štefan


2014-09-16 14:57 GMT+02:00 Stefan Baebler stefan.baeb...@gmail.com:

 Debata teče naprej na forumu:
 http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=26891

 Na to temo pa se dobimo v živo v Kmečkem Hramu v Ljubljani, ta petek 19.
 septembra ob 18. uri.
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/46.07873/14.53623

 Dobrodošli!

 lp,
 Štefan


 2014-09-08 14:15 GMT+02:00 Igor Brejc igor.br...@gmail.com:

 Zdravo,

 Fajn novica. V QGISu sem naložil .shp rabe (600 MB), ni mi pa uspelo
 dodati OSM map layerja, javlja napako, nisem se poglabljal.
 Tukaj sta dva primera rabe za MB in LJ:
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6894864/temp/raba-mb.jpg in
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6894864/temp/raba-lj.jpg

 Prvo, kar se da ugotoviti je, da so poligoni razbiti v pravokotno mrežo.
 Torej če bomo tole importali, je eno od vprašanj ali to združevati v večje
 multipoligone ali ohraniti tako, kot je. In kako bi se sploh lotili importa
 (in kdo).

 lp Igor

 2014-09-07 18:57 GMT+02:00 Stefan Baebler stefan.baeb...@gmail.com:

 FYI:
 http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=26891

 Ima kdo možnost iz shapefile-a narediti kak enostaven overlay čez OSM
 zemljevid, da preverimo vir?

 Lp,
 Štefan
  -- Posredovano sporočilo --
 Od: gvil m-454892-b65...@messages.openstreetmap.org
 Datum: 5. sep. 2014 12:09
 Zadeva: [OpenStreetMap] Imamo dovoljenje!
 Za: stefan.baebler+...@gmail.com
 Kp:

 Pozdravljeni, StefanB,

 Uporabnik gvil http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/gvil vam je prek
 OpenStreetMap poslal novo sporočilo glede Imamo dovoljenje!:
 ==

 rkg.m...@gov.si

 11.47 (pred 19 minute)

 Za meni Spoštovani,

 podatki evidence dejanske rabe so javni in se lahko uporabljajo v vse
 namene, ob predpostavki, da je naveden vir in datum podatkov ter navedba,
 da se evidenca dejanske rabe kmetijskih in gozdnih zemljišč sprotno
 posodablja, glede na dostopnost virov in informacij in da stanje, ki ga
 prikazujete ne odraža vedno trenutnega stanja.

 Lep pozdrav, Alenka Rotter

 27.06.2014 09:29 Prosim, odgovorite za rkg.mkgp

 Za:rkg@gov.si,
 kp:
 Zadeva:Prošnja za soglasje za uporabo grafičnih podatkov RABA 
 v OpenStreetMap

 ==

 Lahko tudi preberete sporočilo na
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/message/read/454892 in lahko odgovorite
 na http://www.openstreetmap.org/message/reply/454892


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Re: [Talk-si] Fwd: [OpenStreetMap] Imamo dovoljenje!

[Stefan Baebler]

Debata teče naprej na forumu:
http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=26891

Na to temo pa se dobimo v živo v Kmečkem Hramu v Ljubljani, ta petek 19.
septembra ob 18. uri.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/46.07873/14.53623

Dobrodošli!

lp,
Štefan


2014-09-08 14:15 GMT+02:00 Igor Brejc igor.br...@gmail.com:

 Zdravo,

 Fajn novica. V QGISu sem naložil .shp rabe (600 MB), ni mi pa uspelo
 dodati OSM map layerja, javlja napako, nisem se poglabljal.
 Tukaj sta dva primera rabe za MB in LJ:
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6894864/temp/raba-mb.jpg in
 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6894864/temp/raba-lj.jpg

 Prvo, kar se da ugotoviti je, da so poligoni razbiti v pravokotno mrežo.
 Torej če bomo tole importali, je eno od vprašanj ali to združevati v večje
 multipoligone ali ohraniti tako, kot je. In kako bi se sploh lotili importa
 (in kdo).

 lp Igor

 2014-09-07 18:57 GMT+02:00 Stefan Baebler stefan.baeb...@gmail.com:

 FYI:
 http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=26891

 Ima kdo možnost iz shapefile-a narediti kak enostaven overlay čez OSM
 zemljevid, da preverimo vir?

 Lp,
 Štefan
  -- Posredovano sporočilo --
 Od: gvil m-454892-b65...@messages.openstreetmap.org
 Datum: 5. sep. 2014 12:09
 Zadeva: [OpenStreetMap] Imamo dovoljenje!
 Za: stefan.baebler+...@gmail.com
 Kp:

 Pozdravljeni, StefanB,

 Uporabnik gvil http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/gvil vam je prek
 OpenStreetMap poslal novo sporočilo glede Imamo dovoljenje!:
 ==

 rkg.m...@gov.si

 11.47 (pred 19 minute)

 Za meni Spoštovani,

 podatki evidence dejanske rabe so javni in se lahko uporabljajo v vse
 namene, ob predpostavki, da je naveden vir in datum podatkov ter navedba,
 da se evidenca dejanske rabe kmetijskih in gozdnih zemljišč sprotno
 posodablja, glede na dostopnost virov in informacij in da stanje, ki ga
 prikazujete ne odraža vedno trenutnega stanja.

 Lep pozdrav, Alenka Rotter

 27.06.2014 09:29 Prosim, odgovorite za rkg.mkgp

 Za:rkg@gov.si,
 kp:
 Zadeva:Prošnja za soglasje za uporabo grafičnih podatkov RABA v 
 OpenStreetMap

 ==

 Lahko tudi preberete sporočilo na
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/message/read/454892 in lahko odgovorite na
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/message/reply/454892


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[Talk-si] OsmAnd 1.0

[Stefan Baebler]

Včeraj je bila izdana verzija 1.0 programa za navigacijo OsmAnd.

Glavni fičrji:
- uporablja OpenStreetMap zemljevide
- turn-by-turn navigacija
- Opensource (GPL 3)
- Več kot 50% preveden v slovenščino, veliko večino Aleš (v cc, ker še ni
na listi)
- Govorjena navodila (tudi slovensko, če kdo pozna kak slovenski TTS engine
za Android)

Več: http://www.osmand.net/
Market: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=net.osmand
Debate: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!forum/osmand
Koda: https://github.com/osmandapp/Osmand
Prevodi: http://translate.osmand.net/

Toplo priporočam!

lp,
Štefan
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[Talk-si] Osebni gps sledilec

[Stefan Baebler]

Pozdravljeni!

Tokrat se na vas obračam v imenu prijateljice, katere oče ima že dokaj
hudo demenco. Zato se jim večkrat dogaja, da zapusti dom in se izgubi,
ter nato tava naokrog. V teh primerih bi se ga najhitreje našlo po
koordinatah. Govorna komunikacija v pravem trenutku (klic takoj ko
zapusti dom) bi tudi morda še pomagala. Problem pa je, da se ne da
zanašati, da bo s seboj vedno nosil telefon ali podoben sledilec, niti
da ga bo dosledno vsako noč napolnil in si ga zjutraj spet nadel.
Zapestnica, ki jo nosijo zaporniki v domačem priporu v ameriških
filmih bi bila nekak približek idealu (vsaj kar se tehnike tiče, za
psiho nisem prepričan).

Zagotovo to ni edinstven primer, a so podobni problemi dovolj poredki,
da se o njih ne govori na vsakem vogalu in da problematika ni
komercialno dovolj zanimiva in rešitve širše dostopne.

Ima kdo od vas (ali vaših znancev) podobno izkušnjo? Kakšno praktično
priporočilo, nasvet, morda celo rešitev?

hvala in lp,
Štefan

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Re: [Talk-si] Nadzor kakovosti

[Stefan Baebler]

Oj!

Poleg omenjenega tagwatch-a je mogoče spremljati:

Prispevke sledi:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/traces/tag/Slovenia
http://www.openstreetmap.org/traces/tag/Slovenija
http://www.openstreetmap.org/traces/tag/Ljubljana
...
žal le po tagih, ne po lokaciji

Spremembe zemljevida:
http://www.itoworld.com/static/openstreetmap.html
To je možno nastaviti poljubna področja in orodje analizira spremembe
v njih (s tem se izogneš nerelevantnim large edits, ki jih je videti
na osm.org).

Vpise v dnevnik:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/diary/sl
to je omejeno po jeziku, ne po lokaciji

Vse te je možno spremljati tudi v obliki RSS (in vsaj dnevnik celo kot geoRSS).

Zagotovo pa obstaja še kaj.

lp,
Štefan

2010/5/21 Gasper Zejn z...@kiberpipa.org:
 Zdravo,

 zanima me kako je z nadzorom nad kakovostjo podatkov - če Slovenska OSM
 skupina uporablja kako orodje, ki bi to olajšalo? Katera se uporabljajo,
 katera mislite, da bi bilo dobro, če bi se?

 Če namreč malo nekoordinirano zajemamo sledi, se utegne zgodit, da bodo
 podatki nekvalitetni oz. da bo treba več truda, kot bi to želeli. Pripravljen
 sem tudi kaj postavit ali pa se pogovarjat z že obstoječimi sistemi, ki jih
 nekateri ponujajo, kot je npr. tagwatch.

 Lp,
 Gašper

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Re: [Talk-si] OSM in slovenska Wikipedija

[Stefan Baebler]

Oj!

Se strinjam, da bi sodelovanje bilo dobro oživiti.
Ko smo se najprej pogovarjali je bilo kar nekaj očitkov, da so
zemljevidi pomanjkljivi (kar je bilo takrat še bolj res).
Kasneje sem k članku o Ljubljani priložil 2 zemljevida, ki sta bila
lepo sprejeta in se sedaj na široko uporabljata za ilustracijo raznih
povezanih člankov.
Večina zemljevidov Ljubljane na Commons je prav iz OSM:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Maps_of_Ljubljana

OSM zemljevidi že več let dosegljivi preko geohack orodja (linka na
koordinatah) v večini jezikov wikipedije, vendar je v planu tudi
nadgradnja na slippy map OSM zemljevidov v lokalnih jezikih (npr
sl.wikipedia.org bi uporabljala name:sl) za ilustracijo vseh člankov s
koordinatami, vendar ne vem kako daleč je stvar prilezla.

Več o sodelovanju:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Collaboration_with_Wikipedia

Bi pa izpostavil tale lokalen seznam, kjer je OSM primaren link na zemljevid:
http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seznam_cest_in_ulic_v_Ljubljani
bi pa ga bilo potrebno dopolniti, da se dosledno uporablja template.
Zanimivo bi bilo pripraviti analizo podatkov - presek in kaj je le v
OSM in kaj le v Wikipediji (todo za OSM).

lp,
Štefan

2010/5/26 Roman Maurer roman.mau...@amis.net:
 Igor Brejc pravi:
 Opazil sem, da na slovenski Wikipediji obstajajo templati za Geopedijo
 in Najdi.si, nisem pa zasledil OSM-ja. Primer članka o Mariboru
 (http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maribor):

 Zdaj sem v omenjeno predlogo dodal še predlogo za OSM:

  {{Infopolje Naselje v Sloveniji
  ...
  |osm={{openstreetmap|lat=46.5549|lon=15.6453|zoom=14}}
  ...
  }}

 Glavno delo pa zdaj zainteresirane še čaka: treba se je sprehoditi skozi 
 naselja, ki nam niso v sramoto, pri vsakem določiti optimalne tri parametre, 
 in to spraviti kot parametre v predloge v wikipedijske člankih o teh naseljih.

 Prav tako bi nekdo, ki ima kakšno urico ali dve časa, malo posodobil
 članek o OSM: http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap
 Namesto angleških zemljevidov bi lahko dal kakšno dobro pokrito območje
 Slovenije (npr. center Ljubljane, Pohorje), pa tudi vabilo k sodelovanju.

 Članka nisem posodobil, sem pa zamenjal zemljevid z ljubljanskim (Ljubljana 
 je vsem kolikor-toliko domača).

 Vabilo k sodelovanju ne sodi v sam wikipedijski članek o OpenStreetMap, sodi 
 pa na projektno stran, kjer je Štefan nekoč že začel navezovati stike: 
 http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedija:Sodelovanje_z_OpenStreetMap
 Iz tega bi lahko bilo še kaj več, saj pri obeh projektih delujemo po enakih 
 načelih, plus obstaja neprazen presek ljudi na obeh.

 Jaz sem za članek o Pohorju dodal linke na OSM zemljevid.

 Lepo.
 --
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          Roman

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] PublicEarth and their Terms of Use

[Stefan Baebler]

Also interesting to note is that their current (initial?) data set
contains POIs that were seemingly contributed by random (english
sounding) user names. Even in non-english speaking countries most
(all?) contributors have english names. Descriptions are of course in
perfect local (non english) language. In a town with 20 POIs they are
contributed by 18 diferent people, which makes a very low average for
someone getting over the burden of registering to contribute.

Seems to me that they are using crowd sourcing public as a facade to
do their data laundry.

Stefan

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:
 Hi,

 Tim Waters wrote:
 Then there's the nice issue of making a database from users
 identifying locations based on Google Maps.

 You mean that issue nobody except OSM seems to care about ;-)

 If they'd be using OSM, would they have to CC-BY-SA all their data? [Is
 that why the aren't?]

 I don't think the business will fly but it's worth a try. It's one of
 these things that I'd never attempt because I'd think it is so obvious
 how I'm trying to siphon off community knowledge and not let the
 community use that knowledge - but quite a few businesses thrive on that
 and I can literally hear armies of PublicEarth fanboys cry out how cool
 is that!. Bet they have some kind of iPhone app to go along with it.

 Bye
 Frederik


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] PublicEarth and their Terms of Use

[Stefan Baebler]

http://publicearth.com/places/ice-rinks/olimpija-ljubljana
On this small map the POI was created by WilliemBlaeu

While on the big (main) map there are 2 POIs, created by JohnSpeed
and JohnMelish and the names change randomly with each reload!
Try 
http://publicearth.com/explore/2c508cb2-c99f-11de-8c6b-00163e75a173?swx=14.445133209228514swy=46.007335618361644nex=14.59464111328ney=46.09978087997012
(no easy way to find a permalink, but this seems to provide al teast
consistent list on the left)
Or you can just browse POIs in Ljubljana, Slovenia.

Stefan

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Barnett, Phillip
phillip.barn...@itn.co.uk wrote:
 Link here, sorry

 http://publicearth.com/places/arts-and-cultural-centers/kettles-yard-gallery




 PHILLIP BARNETT
 SERVER MANAGER

 200 GRAY'S INN ROAD
 LONDON
 WC1X 8XZ
 UNITED KINGDOM
 T +44 (0)20 7430 4474
 F
 E phillip.barn...@itn.co.uk
 http://WWW.ITN.CO.UK
 P  Please consider the environment. Do you really need to print this email?
 -Original Message-

 From: Barnett, Phillip
 Sent: 18 November 2009 14:34
 To: 'Licensing and other legal discussions.'
 Subject: RE: [OSM-legal-talk] PublicEarth and their Terms of Use

 They are using OSM data.

 If you look at Cambridge, UK, for instance, you'll see the entry for Kettles 
 Yard and The Junction have both been credited to OSM.



 -Original Message-
 From: legal-talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org 
 [mailto:legal-talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Frederik Ramm
 Sent: 18 November 2009 12:10
 To: Licensing and other legal discussions.
 Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] PublicEarth and their Terms of Use

 Hi,

 Tim Waters wrote:
 Then there's the nice issue of making a database from users
 identifying locations based on Google Maps.

 You mean that issue nobody except OSM seems to care about ;-)

 If they'd be using OSM, would they have to CC-BY-SA all their data? [Is
 that why the aren't?]

 I don't think the business will fly but it's worth a try. It's one of
 these things that I'd never attempt because I'd think it is so obvious
 how I'm trying to siphon off community knowledge and not let the
 community use that knowledge - but quite a few businesses thrive on that
 and I can literally hear armies of PublicEarth fanboys cry out how cool
 is that!. Bet they have some kind of iPhone app to go along with it.

 Bye
 Frederik


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Re: [Talk-si] uporaba QA orodij

[Stefan Baebler]

Sem preveril nekaj vozlišč v Trbovljah in Hotiču in res ni opaziti
ničesar napačnega, zato sem jih ozačil kot false positive.
Nakar sem se premaknil v Ljubljano in je tudi tu vse oranžno, pa prej
ni bilo. Očitno gre za napako v orodju KeepRight.

Zanimivo pa je, da tega problema v tujini ni videti, ampak se pojavi v
bližini naše meje, čeprav sta obe strani meje dobro povezani s cestami
npr:

http://keepright.ipax.at/report_map.php?db=osm_EUzoom=13lat=46.52417lon=13.72517layers=B00Tch=ch%3D0%2C130show_ign=1show_tmpign=1
http://keepright.ipax.at/report_map.php?db=osm_EUzoom=12lat=45.92085lon=13.54407layers=B00Tch=ch%3D0%2C130show_ign=1show_tmpign=1
http://keepright.ipax.at/report_map.php?db=osm_EUzoom=13lat=46.4283lon=16.28378layers=B00Tch=ch%3D0%2C130show_ign=1show_tmpign=1

Ali gre za zaroto ali pa vsi mapiramo nekako narobe?

lp,
Štefan

2009/10/25 Roman Maurer roman.mau...@amis.net:
 Blaž Lorger pravi:
 Mislim da bi bilo dobro če bi vsak malo pogledal področje, ki ga je mapiral.
 Kamorkoli v Sloveniji pogledaš najdeš precej napak. Začetni link za Slovenijo
 je
 http://keepright.ipax.at/report_map.php?db=osm_EUzoom=9lat=46.10223lon=14.91447.

 Hvala za to povezavo, vidim, da je (v glavnem moje) Zasavje čisto oranžno.  
 Ampak ne vem, kaj bi to orodje rado povedalo s tem:

 floating islands, way 40513490
 This way is not connected to the rest of the map

 Prebral sem definicijo:

 floating islands ... Any highways drawn on the map should be accessible by 
 car starting anywhere in the world. Ferries and highways (even railway 
 platforms) are included in this check, so almost any island in the sea should 
 be reachable starting from the mainland.

 Toda moje ceste so, kolikor vidim, normalno spojene z drugimi cestami (morda 
 se najde kakšna izjema, ampak večinoma so).  Kdo se moti, jaz ali orodje Keep 
 Right?
 --
        Pozdrav,
          Roman

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Re: [Talk-si] vzdrževanje SI:Garmin_Map

[Stefan Baebler]

Hojla!

Če resursi niso pretirano omejujoči bi lahko:
- vzdrževali lokalno kopijo podatkov (izseka do celih stopinj v
postgres/postgis bazi)
- hosting openstreetmap.si z zemljevidom tega področja (s srtm izohipsami)
- mapnik rendering zemljevida s prioriteto name:sl variantam imen (zna
biti zanimivo v obmejnih področjih)
- arhiv izsekov osm podatkov (npr tedenski ali mesečni dump področja,
da se vidi rast)
- podatki v drugih oblikah (garmin img, navit...pač po potrebi in zmožnostih)
- izdelave raznih statistik, trendov, tagwatch ipd
- študentje bi lahko imeli to kot poligon za svoje projekte na realnih
podatkih, zanimivejše dosežke bi lahko predstavili na spletu (tudi v
živo s trenutnimi podatki)
...

Bi ta virtualka bila od zunaj dosegljiva prek porta 80?
Kakšne bi bile omejitve (disk, ram...) in ali bi se jih dalo po
potrebi dvigniti?

lp,
Štefan

2009/10/13 Roman Maurer roman.mau...@amis.net:
 Igor Brejc pravi:
 Ali je kdo od vas zainteresiran, da bi prevzel vzdrževanje Garmin mape
 za Slovenijo? Sam namreč imam dosti drugih OSM-obveznosti in se redko
 spomnim, da bi updatal mapo. Poleg tega je problem, da so na OSMXAPI
 omejili količino podatkov ki jih lahko downloadaš v enem kosu in zdaj ne
 zadostuje niti razdelitev Slovenije na 4 kose.

 Javljam se za to dolžnost, a opozarjam, da sem v OSM začetnik in še niti vseh 
 pojmov ne poznam.  Zaenkrat sem:

 (a) reproduciral postopek po navodilih iz 
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GroundTruth_For_Dummies na manjšem delu 
 osrednje Slovenije in

 (b) ugotovil, da za celo Slovenijo (-b 45,13,47,17) strežnik javlja napako, 
 ki potem zmede makemap: errorQuery limit of 1,000,000 elements 
 reached/error.

 Kako lahko združim posebej pobrane kose v output.osm (omenjaš 4)?

 Jaz lahko providam vse potrebne skripte in SW za generiranje map
 (teoretično dela tudi na Linuxu). Samega dela ni veliko, mogoče je
 največ z updatanjem SLO OSM podatkov, vendar se tudi to da
 avtomatizirati, če postavite PostGIS bazo (tukaj lahko pomagam z
 izkušnjami).

 Pri tem bi te prosil za pomoč oz. usmeritev na kakšna navodila.

 Martin Vuk pravi:
 Jaz lahko ponudim gostovanje datotek na našem strežniku (Fakulteta za
 računalništvo in informatiko). Lahko ponudim tudi virtualni linux
 strežnik za avtomatsko generiranje map, če je kdo pripravlje namestiti
 in skonfigurirati programsko opremo.

 Za gostovanje datotek se priporočam.  Z avtomatskim generiranjem map misliš 
 nekaj takega, kar bi moral biti 
 http://cassini.toolserver.org/tile-browse/browse-sl.html , če bi bil 
 pogosteje osveževan?
 --
        Pozdrav,
          Roman


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Re: [OSM-talk] Google Maps v.s. OSM routing in Berlin

[Stefan Baebler]

On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 12:43 AM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
ava...@gmail.com wrote:
 Why doesn't OSM ever tell me to take a 270 degree turn into oncoming
 traffic on a 6-lane highway and get onto the motorway_link on the
 other side?

 http://maps.google.com/maps?f=dsource=s_dsaddr=B2%2FB5%2FHeerstra%C3%9Fedaddr=A115geocode=FQQ6IQMdPXrKAA%3BFX38IAMdsmvKAAhl=enmra=lssll=52.493736,13.266249sspn=0.002567,0.009645ie=UTF8t=hll=52.502622,13.277648spn=0.001283,0.004823z=18
Nice catch!

 http://cloudmade.com/maps?lat=52.505434lng=13.272686zoom=15directions=52.50880994711401,13.27127609253,52.49494458610386,13.267847299575806travel=carstyleId=1
Try reversing this route it starts with 2 consecutive U-turns in
instructions (on left) in two different intersections while it goes
straight on map.

Stefan

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Monopoly City Streets

[Stefan Baebler]

Look also at the positive site:

This mechanism might be in place to prevent a sudden surge of fantasy
streets (or even whole new cities) popping up all over OSM,
vandalizing our data.

Of course, this doesn't make all things all right.

Their final OSM derivate is a subset of OSM (intersection of OSM and
other google's sources), which makes it less attractive for importing
into OSM, but it still has high value (double/triple checked data...).
But before even coming to that stage they have an intermediate phase
that could be even more interesting for us (missing roads, which they
use to make the derivate).

Stefan



2009/9/9 Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es:
 El Miércoles, 9 de Septiembre de 2009, Jukka Rahkonen escribió:
  By the sound of that, it seems that they're joining up the GMaps data and
  the OSM data, and filtering out the street names in common.

 Do you think there might be something wrong in doing so?

 I do. I think that their DB is a derivative work of the OSM data and that
 share-alike should apply.

 --
 --
 Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es

 http://ivan.sanchezortega.es
 MSN:i_eat_s_p_a_m_for_breakf...@hotmail.com
 Jabber:ivansanc...@jabber.org ; ivansanc...@kdetalk.net
 IRC: ivansanchez @ OFTC  freenode

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Re: [OSM-talk] Brainstorming: Simple Revert-Tools

[Stefan Baebler]

On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 3:13 AM, Martin
Koppenhoeferdieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
 2009/9/2 Pieren pier...@gmail.com:
 2009/9/2 Peter Körner osm-li...@mazdermind.de:
 Revert should
 be possible from the main site everywhere changesets are listed : from
 the history tab on a bbox or the recent changes without bbox ([1]) or
 from an individual contributor ([2]) edits. A new élink revert could
 be added at the right side of every changeset line. One click might
 report succeed or conflict/failed, do it manually.
 +1
also already reverted to prevent the late commers from spending too
much time manually finding out that there's nothing left from the bad
changeset.

Generalizing a bit: changesets could have a metrics of reversibility:
100%=no changed object was changed afterwards (trivial to revert),
95%=5% of objects were changed since the changeset was done (there
will be some conflicts),
0%=all objects were changed (probably a very old changeset or a bad
changeset, undone either manually by various users or by admins, or a
small changeset where another translation of a city name was added
afterwards...).
It would be fairly trivial (but still consuming some resources) to
keep this metric updated in the database by keeping the number of all
objects within a changeset and a counter of changed objects that would
be updated every time an object is changed (find changed object's last
changeset and increase the counter there).

This Persistance of objects (POO for short :)) could also be used
(as one of the metrics) to determine how established the user is, if
needed.

The revert link/button should not be placed directly on lists, but
should only be accessible after carefully inspecting the new,
friendlier changeset diff (see below).

 As a possible watchdog, the system could send automatically a message
 to the author of the reverted changeset like User:XXX reverted your
 changeset 12345.
 +1, that's a good idea

 I would also find it very helpful to have renderings of the different
 states on the api-history-pages (of elements way/node), as well as for
 changesets (before/after), although this might not be possible in some
 cases (e.g. when the area is very big / a way very long).

Yes, visualizing changesets (and generally all object history) could
be better than it is now: highlighting new/deleted/changed tags (down
to individual characters in keys and values and numeric difference for
numbers, possibly even calculating the distance and direction of
movement for latlon), with an aggregated summary of changes.

Of course all this wouldn't say that a way or relation changed if one
of it's node was moved...should it?

Stefan

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Re: [OSM-talk] dissapearing country border

[Stefan Baebler]

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Matthias Versens...@mversen.de wrote:
 BTW: Why are there 2 different border lines ?
Because some parts of the border (notably maritime and along shifting
rivers) are disputed and we try to represent this fact in OSM instead
of using OSM as a battlegrund to find or define the one and only
truth. Disputed parts are tagged
disputed=yes
and it is also mentioned in the name (eg Border SI-HR (Disputed)) to
make it clearer.

Of course most parts aren't disputed and in such cases the better
source could probably be used. One is an import from wikimedia (with a
note = rough estimate in some places, please refine)
while the other one is imported from official Slovenian source
(source=GURS). Later is probably better, but we don't want to force
this down the throats of Croats. Of course they are welcome (and
encouraged!) to reuse the acceptable parts of that border to refine
their version of the border. It could also be interesting to get some
official Croatian source imported to identify those disputes (and
probably find some nice pockets of no man's land by the river :) )

Discussion on talk-si@ list in Slovenian:
http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-si/2009-August/

Some info in Croatian:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mvrban/diary/7626

Stefan

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Re: [Talk-si] Dovoljenje za uvoz meje

[Stefan Baebler]

Super!

Hkvaška enklava:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.6902lon=15.303zoom=14layers=B000FTFTrelation=218657
Slovenska eksklava na tromeji SI-HR-HU bo pa malenkost trši oreh:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=46.47186lon=16.60426zoom=15layers=B000FTFTrelation=218657

Morda bi bilo dobro na wikiju dokumentirati postopek uvoza, vsaj kar
se tiče lokalnih posebnosti kot je npr pretvorba GK koordinat v WGS84.

lp,
Štefan

2009/8/27 Damjan Gerli dam...@damjan.net:
 Ravnokar pred kašno urico se je končalo nalaganje meje. Meje sem razrezal,
 naredil novo relacijo. Enklavo in eksklavo pa nisem označil :-( . Tudi tag
 na vseh node manjka. Vidim da bo treba tudi tage posodobiti...
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/218657

 lp
 Damjan

 -Izvirno sporočilo-
 Od: talk-si-boun...@openstreetmap.org
 [mailto:talk-si-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namesto Stefan Baebler
 Poslano: 27. avgust 2009 8:30
 Za: Igor Brejc
 Kp: talk-si@openstreetmap.org
 Zadeva: Re: [Talk-si] Dovoljenje za uvoz meje

 Ta naš uvoz sem dodal na seznam:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue#Ongoing_Imports

 in pripravil stran za seznam datasetov, polno navedbo vira ipd:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Geodetska_uprava_Republike_
 Slovenije
 (in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/GURS )
 in rezerviral source=gurs tag:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:source%3Dgurs

 Se uvoz kaj premika naprej? Potrebuje kdo kakšno pomoč ali se zdaj
 čakamo med seboj? :)

 Malo sem pogledal podatke, ki jih je pripravil Damjan in so precej
 dobri, je pa seveda treba zadevo še precej dopolniti pred uvozom
 (razrezati meje, poimenovati sosednje države, ustvarti relacijo,
 drugače označiti pomorske meje, urediti enklavo in eksklavo...).

 na vsak node bi dal še kratek tag source=gurs

 lp,
 Štefan


 2009/8/24 Igor Brejc igor.br...@gmail.com:
  Sem videl, da si se ze zmenil glede morebitnih konfliktov
 pri SLO-CRO
  meji... Super :)
 
  lpi
 
  2009/8/23 Stefan Baebler stefan.baeb...@gmail.com
 
  Ha, pri ogledu obstoječih relacij [1] sem opazil svežo južno mejo,
  uvoženo iz wikimedie, s prošnjo po izboljšavi:
 
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/39438746
  Urejeno ob:     nedelja, 23. avgust 2009 20:02 +
  Uredil:         mvrban
  Različica:      1
  V paketu sprememb:      2234718
  Oznake:
  admin_level = 2
  boundary = administrative
  left:country = Slovenia
  name = Border SI-HR
  note = rough estimate in some places, please refine
  right:country = Croatia
  source = WIkimedia recif map
 
  In avtorjev vnos v dnevnik:
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mvrban/diary/7626
 
  lp,
  Štefan
 
  [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/16483 in
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/16438
 
 
 
 

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Re: [OSM-talk] Awards

[Stefan Baebler]

You mean a mechanism much like trust points, but instead of
aggregating all activitiy in a single number giving people various
colorful awards in different areas for recognizing their work and some
motivation? One of the awards being OSMF membership (or a significant
discount on membership fee)? Sounds nice!

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Stefanb/TrustPoints

(we can call it karma, georank, osm longitude ... :)
Stefan

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Frederik Rammfrede...@remote.org wrote:
 Hi,

    I just stumpled across this list of awards that Wikipedia seem to
 have for their contributors:

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Service_awards

 One part of me finds them funny, and interesting, almost as if they come
 from some sort of role playing game. Another part of me abhors the
 implicit hierarchy conferred by such awards, it is almost like service
 ranks in the military.

 But whatever one thinks of them, they surely are fun for a lot of
 people, and give them a sense of achievement.

 In light of the recent discussions (mostly on osmf-talk) about how we
 might find a way to automatically let people who have a certain number
 of edits or some other small contribution threshold become members of
 OSMF (or at least confer some voting rights to them), we could maybe
 think about how one would algorithmically value contributions to OSM,
 yielding not only a set of funny awards we can give to people, but
 perhaps also a definition of who is an established contributor.

 Bear in mind that contributions to OSM are not only edits, but also
 tracks uploaded, Wiki pages edited, code commited to SVN, or tiles
 rendered for ti...@home... and that some edits may require lots of work
 while others can be done almost automatically.

 I'm interested to hear everybody's thoughts on the matter.

 Bye
 Frederik



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Re: [Talk-si] Dovoljenje za uvoz meje

[Stefan Baebler]

Pri toliko dokumenti, kolikor jih imajo objavljenih, lahko res vsak
najde sebi najbolj ustreznega :)
Na strani s podatki
http://www.gu.gov.si/si/delovnapodrocja_gu/podatki_gu/brezplani_podatki/
so izpostavljeni le pogoji, nam ugodnejši cenik pa je precej bolj skrit.

Zagovorniki odprte kode bi se nad takimi interpretacijami najbrž
križali, Če je nekaj po ceniku zastonj (free as in beer) to še ne
pomeni, da se lahko mirno zanemari vse druge pogoje, ki pridejo s
predmetom poželenja (recimo GPL licence pri programih ali CC licenca
pri podatkih).

Slovenski in angleški pogoji so praktično identični, le da so angleški
v obliki besedila, ki ga je laže kopirati in citirati, zato bom
seciral tega (tokrat z mislijo na cenik):

The Client shall undertake to ensure that in case of internet
publication the data shall be used only as a basis for presenting
other content and shall not be presented independently.
Ok, temu se na začetku še nekako izognemo, ker imamo tudi druge
podatke za pokazat. Nikomur pa ne smemo preprečevati, da iz OSM ne bi
izluščil samo teh podatkov in jih razpečeval naprej pod drugačnimi
pogoji (konkretno cc-by-sa licenca namesto GURSovih pogojev).

The Client shall not be permitted to distribute the data to third
persons unless it is expressly permitted in a contract or by other
means.
Ok, tu lahko smatramo, da imamo izrecno dovoljenje by other means.

The Client shall secure data and products thereof from unauthorized
access by third parties.
Se pravi, da imajo tretje osebe avtomatsko pravico (avtorizacijo
dostopa) do brezplačnih podatkov? Po mojem to avtorizacijo dobijo šele
ko GURSu javijo za kakšen namen bodo uporabljali podatke in sprejmejo
GURSove pogoje, kar pa je daleč od duha cc-by-sa licence.

Če si tisti cenik interpretiramo enako kot za državno mejo bi enako
moralo veljati tudi za občine in vse ostale podatke na
http://www.gu.gov.si/si/delovnapodrocja_gu/podatki_gu/brezplani_podatki/
ki imajo ceno v ceniku 0€.

Papirologijo se da urediti (oz bolje rečeno izsiliti) tudi s
priporočenim dopisom posameznika (ker zaenkrat pač še nismo drugače
organizirani), s katerim se jih zaradi nejasnih pogojev obvesti o
razumevanju njihovih pogojev in namenu uvoza podatkov v OSM (in vsemi
posledicami) v kolikor temu izrecno ne nasprotujejo. Za razmislek in
morebiten odgovor se jim pusti kak mesec (da pride do prave osebe,
preštudirajo licence...). Če po poteku tega roka nasprotovanja ni, oz
je odgovor v stilu pogoje imamo objavljene na spletu je to za nas
zelena luč za uvoz, ker smo jih seznanili s svojo interpretacijo
njihovih pogojev in namenom.

lp,
Štefan

2009/8/20 Damjan Gerli dam...@damjan.net:
 Takole. File osm z mejo dobite tukaj:
 http://www.damjan.net/tmp/slo_meja_gurs.7z

 Upam da bo prav, saj je prvič da sem naredil nekaj takega (pretvorba iz
 GaussKrugerjevih koordinat v wgs84 je bila narejena s 7-parametrično
 pretvorbo)...

 Kar se tiče meje na italijanski strani lahko pregledam in zamenjam jaz.
 Namreč italijanska meja je bila pred kratkim ažurirana, vseeno pa se mi zdi
 sloveska verzija boljša, saj predstavlja vsaka točka en mejni kamen, ki je
 tudi dosegljiv na terenu. Po pregledu nekaj kamnov na mejnem prehodu
 Šempolaj/Gorjansko pa menim da je slovenska verzija meje točnejša in se
 italijanska ne ujema s postavljenimi mejnimi kamni.

 Kar se pa tiče GURS-a bi jaz povprašal, če bi se morda isto dalo narediti
 tudi za občine...

 lp
 Damjan G.

 -Izvirno sporočilo-
 Od: talk-si-boun...@openstreetmap.org
 [mailto:talk-si-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namesto Ales rom
 Poslano: 20. avgust 2009 18:56
 Za: talk-si@openstreetmap.org
 Zadeva: Re: [Talk-si] Dovoljenje za uvoz meje

 Roman, zelo dobro si zadel.
 Ko sem se pogovarjal z GURS so ves čas trdili, da so njihovi
 brezplačni podatki na voljo vsakomur. Tudi OSM sem jim dovolj
 podrobno opisal, da vedo, kaj bo s temi podatki. (tudi sedaj
 se zavedajo, da ni sledljivosti) Prav tako sem jih seznanil s
 CC licenco pod katerimi so na voljo OSM podatki. Kar se tiče
 njihovih pogojev uporabe pa pravijo, da prvenstveno veljajo
 za podatke, ki jih nekdo pridobi za plačilo in preprečujejo
 preprodajo. Vem, da bi se pravniki zgrozili nad tako dikcijo,
 ampak 
 Ustno, so mi trije različni zaposleni z GURS zagotovili, da
 naj jih kar uporabimo. Kljub temu sem vztrajal naj to
 napišejo, saj previdnost ni nikoli odveč. Povedali so mi, da
 je tudi njihov interes, da je meja čimbolj natančno označena.
 Če mene vprašate, verjamem, da je e-sporočilo v tem primeru
 dovolj in ne potrebujemo papirne odločbe ali kaj podobnega.

 Verjetno nas čaka le še sladko delo. Uvoz celotne meje, nato
 pa preverjanje, koliko se razlikuje od že vnešene. Morda bi
 vsakdo vzel eno državo in jo natančno obdelal. Kolikor sem
 sam gledal tudi meja z Avstrijo nekje ni najbolj natančna.

 Hvala, Aleš


 2009/8/20 Roman Maurer roman.mau...@amis.net


       Citiram Stefan Baebler stefan.baeb...@gmail.com:

        Njihovi pogoji pa so vseeno tricky, namreč

Re: [OSM-talk] [Osmf-talk] OPENSTREETMAP FOUNDATION - NOTICE OF ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING

[Stefan Baebler]

It can easily happen that there are several very active OSM
contributors employed by the same (larger) company. Company's primary
business might not be OSM (or even GIS) related, it might just be
large enough to gather enough geo geeks. Those people might work in
various branches, possibly not even knowing each other trough other
channels than OSM.

Introducing strict rules for specific situations is no good. CM
could easily set up a new daughter company to employ Nick or Steve to
bypass that rule if they wanted. Or a completely new, unrelated
company entity and outsource the CM management position...

What it would work is:
- full disclosure of candidates' affiliations (done?)
- any OSMF member can propose _anything_ to be voted upon at GM. This
might be a general rule that Richard Weait suggested or a special
voting round to eliminate one of the candidates in worst case (if
voters determine that both candidates are individually good, but
having both on board might be bad for the future of OSMF and none of
them steps down, AND if voters first agree to vote about that in the
first place)

At the same time substantial part of OSMF membership (=voting body)
can easily be bought by anyone with enough money and people to act as
members, allowing them to change rules, statues or to dissolve OSMF
(quickly  visibly or subtly and slowly, taking OSM down with it). :)

The bottom line: let's use common sense and try not to too quickly
come up with general rules to cover specific issues.

Stefan
PS: i wonder if trust points could solve these issues as well :)

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 8:32 PM, SteveCst...@asklater.com wrote:

 On 15 Aug 2009, at 18:20, Richard Weait wrote:

 On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 5:43 AM, Frederik Rammfrede...@remote.org
 wrote:
 Nick,

 Nick Black wrote:
 I'm going to be standing for election to the OSM Foundation Board
 again
 this year.

 Do you and Steve have any comment on Richard Weait's suggestion that
 from every commercial organisation, at most one person should be a
 member of the OSMF board (http://weait.com/cloudmade-layoffs)? I'm
 very
 supportive of that, although not exactly out of fear that you might
 both
 be looking for a new job at the same time, but more along the lines
 of
 what RichardF said in the comments section on that page.

 This would mean that *either* your *or* SteveC should be on the board
 but not both of you. It is of course everyone's right to stand for
 election and let the voters decide if they support Richard's
 suggestion
 or not - but I would be interested in hearing your opinion.

 Nick followed up several times, but I can't see any answer to
 Frederik's direct question.  I'd like to hear replies from each of the
 candidates on this.

 Should any single company be able to hold an unlimited number of seats
 on the Foundation board?  A majority?  All?

 I agree with others that the members should be the ones to decide. I
 don't think arbitrary rules will help much at this stage and I don't
 think it would ever get to the stage of being a majority or more
 anyway from any one organisation.

 There are eleven excellent candidates on the wiki,
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Foundation/AGM09/Election_to_Board
 each qualified and suitable to hold a seat on the board.  Each worthy
 of my vote.  How does more than a single candidate from any company
 benefit the Foundation and the project?

 I'm not standing on a platform of 'I'm at CloudMade therefore vote for
 me' so really the company issue is a tertiary one. I think you should
 judge Nick and I on what we've done with our time helping OSM, which
 is very substantial, and not get hung up on this. The protections in
 OSM are very strong against anyone taking it over and I'm happy to
 make them stronger still.

 And as for the issue of Nick or I being let go from CloudMade... I can
 assure you I would still work just as hard on OSM.

 Yours c.

 Steve

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Re: [Talk-si] meje in zakoni]

[Stefan Baebler]

V svojem odgovoru je GURS zapisal V brezplačne in nepridobitniške
namene dovoljujemo uporabo podatkov
OSM fundacija je res neprofitna ustanova, OSM projekt sam po sebi ni
profitno naravnan,
posamezniki, ki bi te podatke pripravili in uvozili s tem ne služimo.

...ampak...

Licenca OSM (trenutno cc-by-sa, nekoč najbrž odbl) [1] dovoljuje
komercialno (plačljivo in pridobitno) rabo podatkov.
Rezultate projekta v poslovne namene uporablja več podjetij. Nekatera
tesno sodelujejo in prispevajo projektu [1], medtem, ko je najbrž
mnogo več takih, ki samo koristijo rezultate (razne iphone
aplikacije...)

Sporna bi lahko bila že definicija pridobitnosti, ker projekt že
samo z novimi podatki pridobi, kakor tudi posameznik, ki samo
pregleduje zemljevid na spletu ima od tega korist (pridobiva
znanje ali mu vsaj ni dolgčas in ne zapravlja denarja za tiskane
zemljevide ali druge oblike zabave).

Skratka, po mojem mnenju podatki s tako omejujočimi pogoji uporabe [3]
niso primerni za uvoz v OSM.

Dobro bi bilo, da bi z GURSom to razčistili in po možnosti dosegli kak
dogovor, ki bo sprejemljiv za uvoz v OSM.

lp,
Štefan

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/License
[2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Category:Company
[3] http://prostor.gov.si/vstop/fileadmin/narocanje/pogoji_uporabe_podpisani.pdf


2009/8/7 Damjan Gerli dam...@damjan.net:
 Pozdravljeni! Tudi sam sem se spraševal o uporabi podatkov državne meje in o
 tem tudi pisal na GURS. Moje vprašanje in odgovor, ki so mi ga poslali,
 prilagam tu spodaj. Jaz sem predvsem gledal mejo med Italijo in Slovenijo,
 ki je bila nato pred kakšnim tednom ponovno uvožena iz novih podatkov dežele
 Furlanije-Julijske krajine in je sedaj zelo boljša kot prej. Vseeno pa se mi
 zdijo podatki iz Gurs-a še boljši od trenutno vrisane meje na
 OpenStreetmapu. Glede na odgovor, ki so mi ga dali, bi jaz kar uporabil
 podatke o meji in jih uvozil v Openstreetmap. Namreč imam že pripravljeno
 osm datoteko s celotno slo mejo... Isto bi lahko naredili za slovenske
 občine...

 LP,
 Damjan G.

 
 
 Od: mateja.gabrov...@gov.si [mailto:mateja.gabrov...@gov.si]
 Poslano: 14. julij 2009 9:52
 Za: dam...@**.***
 Kp: Blaz Barboric; darja.komo...@gov.si; kristina.pe...@gov.si
 Zadeva: Re: FW: Vprašanje glede uporabe brezplačnih podatkov s portala
 Prostor



 Spoštovani g. Gerli!

 V brezplačne in nepridobitniške namene dovoljujemo uporabo podatkov o
 državni meji Republike Slovenije, ki jih s pojasnilom pridobite na naši
 spletni strani portala Prostor.
 Lep pozdrav!

 Mateja Gabrovšek
 Oddelek za državno mejo





 prostor pros...@geod-is.si
 Sent by: Blaz Barboric blaz.barbo...@geod-is.si
 14.07.2009 08:36

  To
  mateja.gabrov...@gov.si
 cc  kristina.pe...@gov.si, darja.komo...@gov.si


 Subject  FW: Vprašanje glede uporabe brezplačnih podatkov s portala Prostor






 Pozdravljeni,

 Prosimo za informacijo glede vprašanja g. Gerlija o uporabi podatkov državne
 meje.

 Lep pozdrav,

 Blaž Barborič
 Geodetski inštitut Slovenije


 -Original Message-
 From: Damjan Gerli [mailto:dam...@**.***]
 Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 5:59 PM
 To: prostor
 Subject: Vprašanje glede uporabe brezplačnih podatkov s portala Prostor

 Pozdravljeni!
 Imam vprašanje glede uporabe podatkov Državna meja Republike Slovenije, ki
 jih dobimo na portalu Prostor
 (http://prostor.gov.si/vstop/fileadmin/BREZPLACNI_POD/slo_meja.zip in tudi
 http://www.gu.gov.si/fileadmin/gu.gov.si/pageuploads/ogs/nov_drz_koord_sist/
 24_regij/Regionalni_24_TRF_DXF.zip).
 Rad bi uporabil te podatke kot bazo za popravilo vrisane meje v projektu
 OpenStreetMap (http://www.openstreetmap.org/), saj je, posebno na nekaterih
 delih, vrisana meja med Slovenijo in Italijo popolnoma napačna (tudi 200 in
 več metrov pogreška - podatki v openstreetmap so: Based on ISTAT data - 2001
 Italian Census). Zato Vas sprašujem, če je takšna (brezplačna in
 nepridobitniška) uporaba podatkov dovoljena in lahko podatke o meji uporabim
 kot bazo za popravilo podatkov v OpenStreetMap-u?

 Hvala za odgovor
 Damjan Gerli
 Nabrežina / Trst / Italija

 
 


 -Izvirno sporočilo-
 Od: talk-si-boun...@openstreetmap.org
 [mailto:talk-si-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namesto Igor Brejc
 Poslano: 6. avgust 2009 10:00
 Za: Ales rom
 Kp: talk-si@openstreetmap.org
 Zadeva: Re: [Talk-si] meje in zakoni]

 Zdravo Ales,

 Zanimiv pristop, se popolnoma strinjam. Mogoce kasneje
 najdemo se kaksno drugo open-source karto z boljso
 resolucijo, pa tisto uvozimo naknadno.
 Edino bi pripomnil, da je treba vrisati le manjkajoco mejo s
 Hrvasko, ker so ostale ze vrisane iz drugih (verjetno bolj
 natancnih) virov.

 Strinjam se tudi s Stefanom glede groznje GURS-u :)
 Kar se tice Hrvatov, pa se vedno lahko dodajo tudi svojo
 razlicico meje, bo pac dvojna.

 lp Igor


 2009/8/6 Ales rom gab...@gmail.com


       

Re: [OSM-talk] Title bars (dynamic updating of)

[Stefan Baebler]

Cool!

For SEO reasons it could be really nice if this title would be present
in html title tag already while the html is being sent to the
client...and not delaying the initial response at the same time :)

Stefan

On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Ed Avise...@waniasset.com wrote:
 OJ W ojwlists at googlemail.com writes:

Imagine if it said OpenStreetMap Oxfordshire, United Kingdom instead...

http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/TitlebarDemo/?zoom=11lat=51.76lon=-1.282

 You mean instead of OpenSteetMap Oxfordshire, United Kingdom?  Yes that
 would be cool!

 Spelling apart, this is a really neat feature.  Perhaps 'Oxfordshire, United
 Kingdom - Openstreetmap' would be even better.

 --
 Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com




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Re: [OSM-talk] i18n-rich areas on the map

[Stefan Baebler]

Very nice!

What i miss is getting a bigger map. If there is a thumbnail map
embedded into an article people would normally click it in order to
see the map in better detail (normally on a bigger map), not to
navigate in a thumbnail sized slippy map. There needs to be some
intuitive way to switch from the embedded (slippy or static) map to a
full screen (or so) slippy map (can be lightbox javascript, so that
user doesn't leave the page). If user doesn't have javascript (or has
it disabled) clicking on a map should result in a bigger map (with
higher zoom to show roughly the same area).

Stefan

On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:47 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð
Bjarmasonava...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð
 Bjarmasonava...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Ed Avise...@waniasset.com wrote:
 Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason avarab at gmail.com writes:

http://cassini.toolserver.org/browse-fr.html
http://cassini.toolserver.org/browse-nl.html

 The rest are now up at http://cassini.toolserver.org/tile-browse/

 And here's a test wiki to play with:

 http://u.nix.is/wiki/index.php/Maptest

 See this maps-l posting:

 http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/maps-l/2009-July/000158.html

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Re: [OSM-talk] Duplicate place=city capital=yes and other place nodes

[Stefan Baebler]

Yes, i also encountered them.

There seem to be many broken imports of various country names,
creating new nodes instead of updating existing ones:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/1558061
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/1558170
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/1558184
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/1725949
(notice v1 at all nodes in all of the above changesets!)

Some of them seem ok though:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/1558224

Stefan

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Ævar Arnfjörð
Bjarmasonava...@gmail.com wrote:
 I don't know if this has been noted previously but there seem to be a
 lot of recent duplicate place= nodes in the database from different
 users:

  http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/27564988
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/435916947

  http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/428339584
  http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/265958490

 Then there were a lot of duplicate place=country nodes by user
 balrog-kun, but these seem to be mostly cleaned up now:

  249399354 | Ísland                                   | country
  424314784 | Ísland                                   | country
  424312027 | Ísland                                   | country
  424298323 | Ísland                                   | country
  424317955 | Ísland                                   | country
  432425001 | Ísland                                   | country

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Re: [OSM-talk] i18n-rich areas on the map

[Stefan Baebler]

Looks very nice!

Are there any further plans to translate the maps based on wikipedia data?
Would that various names be better imported into main OSM db or just
into the DB for rendering?
Will this translation be done based only on language links in existing
articles or also based on lists of exonyms [1], which would cover also
places without wikipedia articles?
Can we help in some way?

Stefan

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Exonyms

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 1:34 AM, 80n80n...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 8:48 PM, Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason ava...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Mikel Maronmikel_ma...@yahoo.com wrote:
  The rest are now up at http://cassini.toolserver.org/tile-browse/
 
  These are great!!
  (though I think we may just have crashed your renderd with loads of
  requests)

 That was part of the plan:) Let's see how it does with added caching
 though.

  I realize this is just a proof of concept, but is this generally your
  plan
  right now,
  to generate tile sets for every language, with caching?

 Yes but on-demand as they're added to pages on Wikimedia projects with
 the Slippy Map extension. We're not aiming for having a general
 purpose google-maps-alike in 279 languages but rather just a way for
 users to embed maps into articles in their language.

 Those articles will each have their own peephole view of the planet so
 hopefully we won't have to generate a huge amount of static maps /
 tiles for each language.

  Since the underlying geometries are the same for all tiles, and only the
  text changes,
  one thought has been to decouple these into different tile sets (geoms
  and
  various localised text tiles),
  which are then combined on the server before pushing out, or on the
  client
  in OL.

 Yeah a basemap + text would be neat. But I couldn't find a way to do
 it so I thought I'd try the brute-force way first and see how it
 works.

 ti...@home uses this technique of a basemap with no captions and a text
 layer  for lowzoom tiles (z1 through z6) .  Currently they are combined on
 the server to create a composite image using some GD library I think.  This
 seems to works very well and avoids duplicating the most compute intensive
 part of generating a map tile.

 Etienne


  This would reduce space requirements, and load on the database.
  Not sure how much more cost it is to overlay the text on geom tiles, on
  the
  server,
  but there are possibly clever ways to make this efficient.
 
  There's a need for this on osm.org itself. If an efficient way to
  localise
  tiles can be found
  through your work on wikipedia, it's all very good!

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Re: [OSM-talk] OSM TrustPoints

[Stefan Baebler]

Hi!

First, some clarifications:

The possible measures and use limitations were only provided as an
example what can be observed and measured and what could be limited
before earning enough trust in a wat that would be much more effective
and less annoying than captchas. It was not a specific proposal, but
listing possibilities to spark the debate. Probably not all measures
and all limitations are needed and proposals for improvements are
welcome.

We don't need to implement every feature from every example site, but
we have the chance to review those tried examples and see how their
system would work for us, and pick only the best features.

Now some specific issues:

Fixing subway stations in Rome wouldn't be prohibited to newcomers if
they limit themselves for that day to Rome, encouraging them to focus
on an area rather than jumping around the globe changing things (True
value of OSM is _local_ knowledge!). They could be first only allowed
to map within some kilometers around their home, but that might be too
restrictive and demotivating. As for number of daily affected nodes
the number shouldn't be too low, but low enough to prevent moving or
deleting whole cities (whether accidental or malicious) or importing
some data without consulting the community (about legal and technical
issues) and having some help from experienced members.

Let's admit that adding Arabic names to all countries isn't something
a newcomer would be doing in his first months.

Due to seasonal mapping (eg. only during summer) we could prolong the
time after which points start to decay, or make it significantly
slower or drop decaying altogether. Although after some consecutive
years of no activity it might be safe to pronounce someone dead (in
terms of further OSM contributions, at least for statistical reasons).

For simplicity's sake and easier understanding points could be
summarized in at most 5 discrete levels, and additional rights given
to users according to those levels. Levels could be stated in place
where that is needed, eg. mappers near me, so i know who i can ask
some local mapping question, probably also shown in profiles (publicly
or jut to account owners). Better support for mentoring could also be
very good thing.

Involving other systems wouldn't mean a user has to use all of them,
but perhaps 2 of them constructively and not doing extremely annoying
things in others to be considered more trusted. This would also allow
people to shift focus (eg editing wiki in winter) while maintaining
their points or even gaining new ones.
Here even map editing api, track uploads and diaries could be
considered as separate systems.

Randomly checked changesets also seem nice. But it might be hard to
check the first mapper in a blan area

Spam in diaries is existing fact. Volume is orders of magnitude lower
than in email but even that could be eliminated or filtering can be
crowdsourced without annoying admins (while still annoying those that
encounter it before it is tagged by enough people).

Overall, there should be very low threshold before user is given
almost the same permissions as now (curently no limits,so even a new
sock puppet account could be used to import some commercial maps in
hopes of legalizing them this way for their use), starting with a
limited set of rights, and very trusted ones would get additional
powers.

There were also some comments in wiki [1] and additional example site
[2] was given there, so please let us not disregard those in further
discussion.
Also we should give people at SOTM some time to digest their mails and
give some opinions. They are hopefully using their time there for
better things than reading email :)

Stefan

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:Stefanb/TrustPoints
[2] http://stackoverflow.com/faq#reputation

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[OSM-talk] OSM TrustPoints

[Stefan Baebler]

I've put some thoughts towards preventing vandalism and spam and how
that could be automated without getting in a way of normal, legitimate
users.

Draft is available at
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Stefanb/TrustPoints
It's also included below for your convenience.

Feedback, contributions and ideas are welcome.

enjoy,
Stefan
==
Goal

Prevent creation of new sock puppet accounts for potential acts of
vandalism on larger scale and spam. Gradually give trust to users, and
give them additional privileges. It should not be in the way when new
users want to contribute normally. It should not encourage competition
so that itself doesn't become an abuse target.

Use

* Allow editing
* allow larger daily bbox for changes
* allow more daily edits (number of affected nodes, ways...)
* Allow more daily diary entries and comments
* allow sending larger Geomessages
(http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/1852)

Measures

* Accepted the licence (as it is done already today) Extra points
for digitally signing, extra points if signed with a PGP key in a
strong set (permanent, doesn't decay)
* Confirmed, active email address (as it is done already today)
* Time since signing up
* Regular editing activity
* Track uploads
* Passed a quiz involving some tagging and some legal questions
(just making sure user reads the licence and tagging FAQ and
understands it). Points decay, but user can re-take it to regain
points.
* Regular activity in other systems? (mailing lists, forums, wiki,
svn repository, diary/blog, trac...) Perhaps totally different systems
shouln't be mixed - one who can program or is very vocal doesn't
necessarily yet know how to map well and shouldn't be trusted with
enormous imports and vice versa)
* Rated by other users (manualy: reverted changesets, reported
spam in diary, getting comments to a diary entry while not being
flagged as spam...) ?
* Friend of a trusted user (mentor, introducer, bot owner)
* only the last 12 months count, points start to gradually decay
after 6 months. Moderate activity should be enough to maintain
high-enough score.

Further reading

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reputation_service
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moderation_system
* https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/Karma - seems to work nicely
* http://slashdot.org/moderation.shtml - it works, most famous?
* http://www.cacert.org/index.php?id=19 - summarized such rules
* https://www.ohloh.net/people/rankings - encouraging competition

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Re: [OSM-talk] Map legends: Another option

[Stefan Baebler]

It's nice seeing changing road width with zoom also in the legend!

It would  be also interesting to hide features that are not appearing
in the map currently being shown.
Sure it would require a bbox query, but it would be much more user
friendly (eg when matching 2 shades of green in a map to 5 shades in
the legend) and it would also allow showing relevant POI icons
OTOH new mappers should see also not yet existing features (as their
palette of features to choose from) with links to wiki :)

Stefan

On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 1:17 AM, Lars Ahlzenl...@ahlzen.com wrote:
 Hi All,

 I know that there's been some talk about generating map legends/keys
 lately, and I don't know if there's a need for another option. It
 generated some interest when I mentioned it in my diary recently, however...

 I created a python script that generates an HTML legend (with images)
 based on a description of features to be included and one or more Mapnik
 XML configuration files. Thus, I can automatically generate legends for
 each zoom level of my map. If I modify the map style, I can just run the
 script again.

 Example at: http://toposm.com/ma/

 (click on Show/Hide Legend at the bottom right). It's dynamic, so it
 will reload when you zoom in and out.

 It was created for the TopOSM project, but it may be useful to other
 projects that use Mapnik for rendering.

 The script itself, and more info, is available at:

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TopOSM#Map_legend

 - Lars

 --
 Lars Ahlzen
 l...@ahlzen.com

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[OSM-legal-talk] signup notice

[Stefan Baebler]

While carefully translating osm rails website into Slovenian i noticed
that signup notice at
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/new currently reads:

By creating an account, you agree that all work uploaded to
openstreetmap.org and all data created by use of any tools which
connect to openstreetmap.org is to be (non-exclusively) licensed under
this Creative Commons license (by-sa).

the all data created by use of any tools which connect to
openstreetmap.org  part can be problematic, as my browser connects to
openstreetmap.org. Heck, my computer and router also connect there,
and so does my phone and so does my ISP and my email provider
occasionally. Should all the work done using these tools  be lincensed
with the osm license (cc-by-sa for the moment)?

I guess a re-wording is needed here to calm down and invite the most
paranoid would-be contributors.

Stefan

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] signup notice

[Stefan Baebler]

Well, translation itself wasn't a problem, but faithfully translating
this rather important message made me read original several times
carefully (and noticing this problem) and then reading the translation
again, to make sure the very same ambiguity is kept (semantic
equivalence) while being grammatically correct.

Stefan

On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 11:50 PM, Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com wrote:

 On Jun 1, 2009, at 5:30 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:

 But even though that interpretation is rather laughable, the original
 poster is right: The wording might unnecessarily upset some people, so
 why not fix it.

 Agreed.  The original question was How do I translate this??, but
 the answer is well, it's pants anyway, so we should fix it.  I think
 that the consensus was to leave it as is until the ODbL comes along.
 Change it all at once.

 --
 Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - 
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson
 r...@cloudmade.com - Twitter: Russ_OSM - 
 http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson


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[OSM-talk] mapof / osmarender export broken

[Stefan Baebler]

MapOf [1], which is called from the export tab on the main map page,
currently only produces an error instead of nice, big Osmarender maps.

Stefan


[1] http://tah.openstreetmap.org/MapOf/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Donations and bank accounts

[Stefan Baebler]

  Gary68 wrote:
  I for sure won't sign on to PayPal. And I won't give my bank
 xxEUR for
  shipping a few bucks across the channel.

Within Europe SEPA [1] transfers are probably the cheapest (for both
parties, in some cases even free with certain bank accounts) way to make
international money transfers.

When I just tried to make such donation per instructions [2], i got an
error: BIC code is either invalid or not in the list of codes for SEPA
orders. (original slovenian: Nepravilna BIC koda, ali BIC koda ni v
šifrantu za SEPA naloge)

Can someone please check if account can recieve such transfers and the
Co-operative Bank is included in the SEPA system before i contact my bank?

thanks,
Stefan


[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area
[2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Donations#International_Donations



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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[OSM-talk] Fwd: data release statement

[Stefan Baebler]

Hi!

Since legal-talk@ list is busy discussing new licensing options I'd
like to hear your opinion about importing a dataset into OSM.

Namely I'm interested in:
- what legal precausions (if any) should be taken when importing data into OSM?
- how was this dealt with previously donated data? (AND etc)

Read my monologue (so far) bellow (in chronological order).
thanks /Stefan

On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Stefan Baebler
stefan.baeb...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi!

 We, the OSM community in Slovenia are in talks with a local company
 GlobalVision [1] that is willing to donate some of their data (mostly
 POIs) to the OSM project. And we have some legal questions for you.

 If we do accept their data, how can we be sure that they have all the
 rights to donate it (as they are claiming and probably also is the
 case). We would like to avoid any chance of legal troubles to come
 haunting us after some time. Questionable data could easily be removed
 (source tag, dedicated import user), but old planets are being mirrored
 and distributed so the data would be out there in the wild and cannot be
 erased.

 In hypothetical worst case scenario, that the true owner is someone else
 and comes up to us with this issue we'd need some way to turn them (and
 their pack of lawyers) to our source, not us (we'd probably still just
 remove the questionable data to avoid further distribution).

 Some kind of a statement from the donor could help, but we're not sure
 what exactly should it contain.

 The company X is hereby donating the dataset of Y map_features to the
 OpenStreetMap project, to be published under CC-BY-SA licence with
 attribution to X (in source tag of the data). The company X owns the
 dataset and has all the rights to make this donation.
 (Same in Slovenian and in English)

 How was this handled in cases of other such imports (eg. AND data could
 be derived from TeleAtlas or an unlicensed paper map). Is there any
 legal safety net needed?

 Data was checked by several most active members of local OSM community
 and we approve the quality. This legal question is the only one bugging
 us. Maybe we are just too paranoid and too strictly following the
 guidelines[2]? Technical part of the import isn't an issue.

 Any thoughts?
 Stefan

 [1] http://www.globalvision.si
 [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines


-- Forwarded message --
From: Stefan Baebler stefan.baeb...@gmail.com
Date: Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Subject: Re: data release statement
To: legal-t...@openstreetmap.org


Hi again!

Further investigation shows, that they are already publishing same
data (and more)
- with freely (as in beer) downloadable localized (Slovenian) version
of mapyx [1]
- in (payable) Slovenian map packs for mapyx in their store [2]

They want to include OSM support in mapyx (in localized version at
least) so that they could bundle better maps for free with it.

Would it make any legal difference if they perform the actual import
(with our precise instructions and preparing the .osm file) to avoid
all the paperwork?

Is any paperwork required and how was this handled in other, similar situations.

If so, seeing rather high activity towards ODbL relicensing, would it
make sense to specifically mention that one in the donation paper?

Any opinions, hidden dangers...?
Stefan

[1] http://www.mapyx.com/ / http://www.kje.si/
[2] http://www.mapyx.com/index.asp?tn=shop2c=227 /
http://www.kje.si/index.asp?tn=shop2c=217

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] data release statement

[Stefan Baebler]

Hi again!

Further investigation shows, that they are already publishing same
data (and more)
- with freely (as in beer) downloadable localized (Slovenian) version
of mapyx [1]
- in (payable) Slovenian map packs for mapyx in their store [2]

They want to include OSM support in mapyx (in localized version at
least) so that they could bundle better maps for free with it.

Would it make any legal difference if they perform the actual import
(with our precise instructions and preparing the .osm file) to avoid
all the paperwork?

Is any paperwork required and how was this handled in other, similar situations.

If so, seeing rather high activity towards ODbL relicensing, would it
make sense to specifically mention that one in the donation paper?

Any opinions, hidden dangers...?
Stefan

[1] http://www.mapyx.com/ / http://www.kje.si/
[2] http://www.mapyx.com/index.asp?tn=shop2c=227 /
http://www.kje.si/index.asp?tn=shop2c=217



On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 8:31 PM, Stefan Baebler
stefan.baeb...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi!

 We, the OSM community in Slovenia are in talks with a local company
 GlobalVision [1] that is willing to donate some of their data (mostly
 POIs) to the OSM project. And we have some legal questions for you.

 If we do accept their data, how can we be sure that they have all the
 rights to donate it (as they are claiming and probably also is the
 case). We would like to avoid any chance of legal troubles to come
 haunting us after some time. Questionable data could easily be removed
 (source tag, dedicated import user), but old planets are being mirrored
 and distributed so the data would be out there in the wild and cannot be
 erased.

 In hypothetical worst case scenario, that the true owner is someone else
 and comes up to us with this issue we'd need some way to turn them (and
 their pack of lawyers) to our source, not us (we'd probably still just
 remove the questionable data to avoid further distribution).

 Some kind of a statement from the donor could help, but we're not sure
 what exactly should it contain.

 The company X is hereby donating the dataset of Y map_features to the
 OpenStreetMap project, to be published under CC-BY-SA licence with
 attribution to X (in source tag of the data). The company X owns the
 dataset and has all the rights to make this donation.
 (Same in Slovenian and in English)

 How was this handled in cases of other such imports (eg. AND data could
 be derived from TeleAtlas or an unlicensed paper map). Is there any
 legal safety net needed?

 Data was checked by several most active members of local OSM community
 and we approve the quality. This legal question is the only one bugging
 us. Maybe we are just too paranoid and too strictly following the
 guidelines[2]? Technical part of the import isn't an issue.

 Any thoughts?
 Stefan

 [1] http://www.globalvision.si
 [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines


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Re: [OSM-talk] name tags on place=country and how they're rendered on lowzoom

[Stefan Baebler]

 where is a local language being set for a country or a region?
 It isn't at all. The software doesn't know which language name is in, only
 the mapper does.
Software can only gues the language of the default name from an
identical name value with a specified language.

eg:
name=Venezia
name:en=Venice
name:sl=Benetke
name:de=Venedig
...
can additonally be tagged with
name:it=Venezia

This could be used to make nice maps of default languages, if only it
was used more than just on major cities (smaller places rarely have
foreign names)

With just one tag precisely describing the name (with language) all
other translations could be pulled from wikipedia (enriching maps with
additional languages) when needed
eg such precise tag could be
wikipedia:en=Venice

Stefan

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Re: [OSM-talk] name tags on place=country and how they're rendered on lowzoom

[Stefan Baebler]

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Donald Allwright 
donald_allwri...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Software can only gues the language of the default name from an
 identical name value with a specified language.

 eg:
 name=Venezia
 name:en=Venice
 name:sl=Benetke
 name:de=Venedig
 ...
 can additonally be tagged with
 name:it=Venezia
 
 This could be used to make nice maps of default languages, if only it
 was used more than just on major cities (smaller places rarely have
 foreign names)

 How would you deal with something like:
 name=Paris
 name:fr=Paris
 name:es=Paris
 name:en=Paris

name:sl=Pariz
so we can scratch at least that one out from the list of all possible local
languages to give that Paris pixel a bit more yellowish tone ;)
I did say such language maps could be nice, not necessarily exact.

Stefan



 ?
 You can't really tell the default language from this. It would only work if
 we can guarantee that only where the name is different in a specific
 language is it tagged - I've not checked but I'd guess there are lots of
 examples of (strictly speaking superfluous) tags like this. There will also
 be cases where the only difference is an accent on a letter - this will work
 if correctly tagged, but there will probably be a lot of errors in the
 tagging where an accent missed off in the native language. (e.g. Peru vs
 Perú).

 Cheers,
 Donald


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[OSM-talk] Fully funded GIScience PhD study opportunities in Ireland

[Stefan Baebler]

Some of you might be very interested in (but others can safely ignore):
-
National Centre for Geocomputation (NCG) at the National University of
Ireland, Maynooth (NUIM) has at present several openings for fully
funded PhD positions in various areas of Geotechnologies and
Geographic Information Science within the StratAG project:
- PhD studentships: http://www.stratag.ie/index.php?id=phd,
- StratAG project: http://www.stratag.ie
- NCG: http://ncg.nuim.ie

At the moment there are 4 places advertised, but there will be a few
more in the coming weeks (in total there will be between 10-12
positions). Depending on the PhD topic, we are looking for students
with (preferably master) degrees in Civil Engineering, Surveying
Engineering, Mathematics, Computer Science, Physics, Electronic
Engineering. These are all fully funded positions for 3 years, which
is the duration of the PhD in Ireland and they are to start in
September 2009. Additionally, the funding covers EU tuition fees. More
information available at the websites listed above.

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Re: [OSM-talk] A top tip for winter mapping

[Stefan Baebler]

That, my friends, is so last year's fashion!

A photo to prove it: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/StefanB

I'm glad it's finally catching on though :)

Stefan

Douglas Furlong wrote:
 2008/12/13 LeedsTracker leedstrac...@gmail.com
 mailto:leedstrac...@gmail.com
 
 Hello all,
 
 I was out mapping on foot around town and found my bluetooth GPS was
 getting poor reception in my coat pockets.
 
 It was cold out, so I stuck the GPS on top of my head and pulled my
 woolly hat over it.
 
 Anyone looking closely might have seen a few flashing LEDs on my
 bonce, but a price worth paying for better traces, I'm sure you'll
 agree.
 
 
 Not a bad idea :)
 
 While I was cycling a bit more, I was very tempted to some  velcro on
 the back of it, and some more on the strap of my ruck sack, so that it
 can be attached and always have clear line of sight.
 
 Your idea is some what less hassle though :)
 
 Doug
 
 
 
 
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[OSM-talk] [Fwd: job opening: postdoc in Geovisual Analytics at NCG]

[Stefan Baebler]

Hi!

I got this offer and thought some of you might be interested in a
postdoc position in Ireland. /Stefan



National Centre for Geocomputation (http://ncg.nuim.ie) at the
National University of Ireland, Maynooth (http://www.nuim.ie) is
recruiting a Postdoctoral Research Fellows to be based at NUI
Maynooth, a university in a town 30km west of Dublin, Ireland.
Research area is in Geovisual Analytics and Geovisualisation and the
successful candidate will work on the following two projects:
1. Novel marine information extraction from very large acoustic sensor
databases using Geovisual Analytics
2. Dimensionality reduction for spatial visualisation and visual
knowledge discovery
Duties will include conducting research, publishing in international
refereed journals, assisting PhD students and generally helping with
the activities of the StratAG research cluster (Strategic Research in
Advanced Geotechnologies, http://www.stratag.ie), through which this
post is funded.

Requirements: PhD in a relevant discipline: GIScience, geocomputation,
geoinformatics, spatial statistics, computer science, applied
mathematics, or similar with an emphasis on a topic related to the
above-mentioned projects (i.e. visual analytics, information
visualisation, geovisual analytics, geovisualisation, visual data
mining, visual knowledge discovery or similar)

Duration: 1 year post with a possibility of extension for further 2 years
Starting date: 1 Jan 2009 or as soon as possible thereafter

Salary : €46,043 p.a. in year 1

Application: by email to StratAG (at) nuim.ie, DL: 1 Dec 2008

More details about the position, the projects and the application
process available here:
http://www.stratag.ie/index.php?id=postDoc
http://www.stratag.ie/downloads/PostDocAd-Visualisation-GeovisualAnalytics.pdf

Or else, if you have any further questions, you can write to me.

Regards,
Urska Demsar


-
Dr. Urska Demsar
National Centre for Geocomputation
John Hume Building
National University of Ireland, Maynooth
Maynooth, Co. Kildare, Ireland
E-mail: urska.demsar (at) nuim.ie
Phone: +353-1-7086178
Fax: +353-1-7086456
http://ncg.nuim.ie
-



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Re: [OSM-talk] is this wiki spam?

[Stefan Baebler]

maning sambale wrote:
 Is it spam?
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_talk:Bill2100
sure looks like it. Interestingly spammers still use wiki for spamming
even if it adds rel=nofollow to all the links.

Added the page to
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Spam
removed the content and marked it for deletion.

Stefan

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[OSM-talk] nicer wiki URLs

[Stefan Baebler]

Hi!

IMO I would be good to have nicer  shorter URLs in our wiki.

Eg http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Map_Making_Overview
could  probably should be shortened to:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/Map_Making_Overview

The change would also need to redirect old URLs to the new, shorter ones

The manual is at
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Short_URL

enjoy the day,
Stefan

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Re: [OSM-talk] nicer wiki URLs

[Stefan Baebler]

Tom Hughes wrote:
 Grant Slater wrote:
 Stefan Baebler wrote:
 IMO I would be good to have nicer  shorter URLs in our wiki.

 Eg http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Map_Making_Overview
 could  probably should be shortened to:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/Map_Making_Overview

 The change would also need to redirect old URLs to the new, shorter ones
   

 Fix now... there have been many requests for this.

 I have gone for this format:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Main_Page
 -
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page
 
 I don't really see the point of that - if you were going to get rid of
 the middle bit then fine, but just changing it seems a bit silly.
Yes, my initial proposal was to cut the unnecessary part of url.
Also having wiki twice in URL makes little sense.

 As I said last weekend I had planned on getting rid of it when we moved
 machines, but the mediawiki manual scared me off.
good, i wasn't aware of that. I guess mediawiki guys are covering all
the possible scenarios as detailed as we are when it comes to maps, api
... probably scaring off newcomers :)

Some of the solutions are just a few lines of mod_rewrite config in
apache and some settings in mediawiki.

Stefan

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Re: [OSM-talk] Wiki-Admin: Allow external images

[Stefan Baebler]

another example:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Press
Should be easy to use for journalists but clicking the icons takes
them to the icon, not to the desired content

I guess you want similar functionality for linking to external pages.
That could be also useful for linking to external tools in city pages,
but it shouldn't be abused.

Stefan



On Wed, Nov 12, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Claudius Henrichs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Grant Slater:
 Claudius Henrichs wrote:
 Can any of the OSM wiki admins please set $wgAllowExternalImagesFrom to
 allow external images from wiki.openstreetmap.org? I would like to add
 a OSM2Go manual with pictures and have a 1-click-install image that
 links to a download page. I and proably others would need this setting
 for wiki-scenarios like this.


 I don't follow... what is wrong with the standard wiki syntax for
 linking an image?

 eg:
 [[Image:ImageName.jpg]]

 / Grant

 It doesn't allow to link this image with an external link target like
 www.openstreetmap.org. Even linking it with an wiki-internal article is
 difficult to do.


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Re: [OSM-talk] A project for winter - Building heights

[Stefan Baebler]

a fun way for checking the dataset would surely be to have OSM maps in
3d simulations or games, such as
http://torcs.sourceforge.net/ or
http://sourceforge.net/projects/trigger-rally/ (picked at random,
other targets are welcome)

Imagine roadsigns showing restrictions, place  street names,
buildings as blocks, srtm for general terrain relief, show landuse and
some natural features

A benefit would be to be able to make use JOSM remote control plugin
(or open up potlatch) to fix up spotted errors while game is paused :)

How about piste maps in Tux racer ? :D

Stefan


On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 10:23 PM, Frederik Ramm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 Jon Burgess wrote:
 Like this? http://artem.dev.openstreetmap.org/files/osm_3d.png

 or

 http://igorbrejc.net/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-3d-short-video

 Bye
 Frederik

 --
 Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail [EMAIL PROTECTED]  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

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Re: [OSM-talk] elephant trekking

[Stefan Baebler]

According to osmxapi statistics [1] there are already 2 elephants in OSM data.
Should we see a sudden increase now?

:)
Stefan

[1] http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org/total.xml

On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Nic Roets [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I'd tag it as tourism=zoo and add a note explaining what's there.

 It will allow people searching for attractions to find it. As an added
 benefit, the icon for a zoo is an elephant on mappaint?, gosmore and
 possibly other renderers.

 On Sat, Oct 18, 2008 at 6:23 PM, Joe Richards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I am putting in a tourist attraction - elephant trekking in Thailand -
 since it's the kind of thing that when you visit you would want to know
 about, but how do I tag it?


 Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

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Re: [OSM-talk] Relations Proposals for boundary, country and is_in

[Stefan Baebler]

Knut Arne Bjørndal wrote:
 Raphael Studer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 I've founde three relation proposals with nearly the seam aims.

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Relations/Proposed/Boundaries
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Relations/Proposed/Country
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Relations/Proposed/Is_In

 I've also seen relations with type=nation meaning nearly the same as country.
Seeing some use of undocumented nation relation I beg to differ.
nation is not a country.

Countries are administratively (or by force) defined geographical 
entities. Countries generally don't overlap, have precise (although 
sometimes disputed) borders, can have exclaves, enclaves...can be mapped 
precisely
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country

Nation are people with common culture. Nations can overlap, can have 
minorities in other countries, borders between nations are generally 
blurring with globalisation...can be mapped only vaguely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation

Sure, some countries might represent a nation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation-state
but this certainly cannot be applied globally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State#Usage

So, I'm voting for country relation by using it in our parts of the wood. :)

Stefan

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[OSM-talk] empty relations

[Stefan Baebler]

Hi!

While analyzing current uses of relations (relations-latest.osm) it came 
to my attention that relations with no members can exist in the DB while 
they probably have no meaning in the real world. What's more, current 
editors never show such relations because they can't be related to the 
area that is being edited (it can't show up in any bbox API call, just 
in full DB dumps).

One example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/relation/2339
(this was obviously replaced by 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.5/relation/2340 )
There are probably more, but i guess it is easier to run an appropriate 
query on the MySql console to determine the magnitude of the problem.

Should relations with no members be allowed?
If so, how can one use such existing, but empty relations and how could 
one delete an obsolete relation?

Not sure if the same problem occurs with empty ways, with no nodes 
referenced. Or are they already disallowed/deleted by API?

Stefan

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Re: [OSM-talk] empty relations

[Stefan Baebler]

Frederik Ramm wrote:
 Hi,
 
 While analyzing current uses of relations (relations-latest.osm) it came
 to my attention that relations with no members can exist in the DB while
 they probably have no meaning in the real world.
 
 That's a leftover of the time when relations were planned to be generic 
 entities.
 
  The idea behind these is to make it possible to have generic objects
  that can take part in other relations (as members).

Ok, so it is basically (ab)using the only locationless entity available 
in OSM model to store some data, which _may_ be referenced by other 
relations. It is still not clear to me how could one reference it 
without having it retrieved in some bbox.

 Say you have a road and you want to say this road is operated by 
 company X. You could put a tag on the way saying operator=X. But now 
 assume that you want to store a lot of extra info with X, e.g. not only 
 the name but also telephone numbers and so on. You'd end up having a set 
 of tags (operator_name, operator_telephone and so on). So you can 
 create an object representing X, and you would use a relation without 
 members for that and tag it type=company, name=..., telephone= Now 
 you can use a second relation to link the way you are talking about to 
 the company X.

Why not store the data about the company in that latter, second 
relation, and using this same relation to group all the roads operated 
by a particular company at the same time?

Is it just a bad example or I misunderstood it somehow? Are there any 
other, meaningful uses?

 The feature is not used yet but why disable it if it doesn't hurt.
We could just as well just deprecated segments, but decision was to 
ditch them completely. Now we find ourselves splitting ways into chunks 
no longer than a segment and gluing them together with relations (way 
has to be split whenever there is a bridge, speed limit change, bus or 
cycle route joins the way...). This might be a bit radical, but we could 
as well ditch ways and replace them with relations (of ordered nodes to 
compose ways). /thinking aloud

 What's more, current
 editors never show such relations because they can't be related to the
 area that is being edited (it can't show up in any bbox API call, just
 in full DB dumps).
 
 As of tonight, JOSM will have a way to download all members of a 
 relation, and this would then also download the X relation in my example.
goodie!
But it doesn't make non-referenced relations with no members any more 
useful. One still won't be able to retrieve them to reference them.


Stefan

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Re: [OSM-talk] Downloading map images (update to MapOf)

[Stefan Baebler]

OJ W wrote:
 http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/GetMap/layers_xml.php
 http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/GetMap/layers_source.php
 i.e. a list of free tileservers.  Are there any layers we should
 add/remove from that list?  Are the fields sufficient for other
 peoples' uses?

few minor improvements:
- Add trailing slash in the URL of osmarender tiles
   tag k=tiles v=http://tah.openstreetmap.org/Tiles/tile/
   to have it written uniformly
- minZoom (defaulting 1)  maxZoom levels (mapnik vs. osmarender tiles)
- bbox (if limited to not cover whole world, such as slovakia)
- slippy URLs could include layers parameter to go directly to that 
layer in browser

Maybe adding lat, lon  zoom parameters would also go to specific 
location...khm, but parameter namse can differ over sites, so it would 
have to be sth like

http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat={lat}lon={lon}zoom={zoom}layers=0BFT
but that won't work if parameters are not known (url 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=lon=zoom=layers=0BFT shows nothing)
, so they'd need to be taken out or have all that info in an additional 
parameter named slippyPermalink or so.
(eg i want my phone to send permalinks, not just coordinates, so that 
recipient can go directly to my cycling/skiing/road map and see my 
whereabouts).

Permalink URLs accepting degrees or some arbitrary openlayers units as 
parameters is another issue, out of the scope here.

Is that stored in some db? It could be put in main db as nodes tagged 
with config=slippy_map_layer and all other keys? Clients could then 
fetch it from osmxapi ... that would be convinient, but abusing the main 
DB and opening clients to abuse by editors :)
Probably having it in SVN is better than abusing the DB.

Stefan

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Re: [OSM-talk] Filtering GPX tracks when they're good enough to make ways from but contain too many points

[Stefan Baebler]

Simplify way in JOSM does it (lowermost icon on the left toolbar, if
memory serves me well).

Stefan

On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 9:14 AM, Beau Gunderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I've succeeded in uploading a large portion of my GPX tracks from Mexico 
 South America and now would like to map out some of the highways.

 In many portions the GPX track (when converted to a data layer) is good
 enough for a way--the only sticking point is that there are way too many
 data points.

 I tried osmtrackfilter.pl with '--filter-reduce --out-raw-gpx' but the
 resulting file is actually bigger and doesn't seem to remove any points.

 Anyone know a filter that does a good job of achieving a large decrease in
 points without altering the shape of the track too much? These have got a
 lot of very straight portions and osmtrackfilter.pl was supposed to do a
 good job with those...


 Thanks,

 Beau

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Re: [OSM-talk] Transparent slippy map of a GPX

[Stefan Baebler]

Nice indeed, i just wonder if it wouldn't be easier (on the server) to
show it using openlayers - it can handle KMLs, and will handle GPXs in
version 2.7
http://trac.openlayers.org/ticket/1272
and some older support:
http://www.gnunux.info/projets/openlayers-gpx/

Now, a GPX slippy map image layer  with all GPX trackpoints in the DB
would be very nice, and probably easy to do from this. Hint, hint :)

Stefan


On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 11:36 AM, Hakan Tandogan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 On Fri, May 23, 2008 00:02, OJ W wrote:
 Sorry, example URL should be:


 http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/gpx/?gpx=112168zoom=10lat=52.08314lo
 n=-0.71864

 Really nice, how about adding a link to that page from the overview of the
 trace itself? Maybe next to of (map / edit) a overlaid on map?


 Regards,
 Hakan

 --
 The key to immortality is first living a life worth remembering...



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Re: [OSM-talk] Downloading map images (update to MapOf)

[Stefan Baebler]

OJ W wrote:
 of course:
 http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/GetMap/layers_xml.php
Tnx, that was fast!

 apologies for the confusion over country names!
No offense taken, we're used to have our international snail mail 
occasionally routed via Bratislava (specially if it originates over the 
pond) :) It's amazing, but this still happens.

Stefan

 
 
 
 On Sun, May 18, 2008 at 5:56 AM, Stefan Baebler
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 OJ W wrote:
 http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/GetMap/layers_source.php

 i.e. a list of free tileservers.  Are there any layers we should
 add/remove from that list?  Are the fields sufficient for other
 peoples' uses?

 Ehm...

   slovenia = Array(
 tiles =http://www.freemap.sk/layers/allinone/?/;,
 description=Slovenian localisation of OSM,
 update=,
 license=CC-BY-SA 2.0,
 source=OpenStreetMap,
 hosted=OpenStreetMap Slovenia,
 format=png,
 slippy=http://informationfreeway.org/;
 ),

 I believe that would be _Slovakia_, not _Slovenia_. Also slippy map url
 seems wrong (should be http://www.freemap.sk/ ).

 It should be trivial to spit it out in xml for non-javascript clients,
 right?

 Stefan

 


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Re: [OSM-talk] Downloading map images (update to MapOf)

[Stefan Baebler]

OJ W wrote:
 http://dev.openstreetmap.org/~ojw/GetMap/layers_source.php

 i.e. a list of free tileservers.  Are there any layers we should
 add/remove from that list?  Are the fields sufficient for other
 peoples' uses?
   
Ehm...

slovenia = Array(
  tiles =http://www.freemap.sk/layers/allinone/?/;,
  description=Slovenian localisation of OSM,
  update=,
  license=CC-BY-SA 2.0,
  source=OpenStreetMap,
  hosted=OpenStreetMap Slovenia,
  format=png,
  slippy=http://informationfreeway.org/;
  ),

I believe that would be _Slovakia_, not _Slovenia_. Also slippy map url 
seems wrong (should be http://www.freemap.sk/ ).

It should be trivial to spit it out in xml for non-javascript clients, 
right?

Stefan




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Re: [OSM-talk] Zero point tag?

[Stefan Baebler]

It might be that François wasn't talking about geographic centre of
countries, but established (read: old) reference points from times
where each country / region had their own coordinate system, or not
even real coordinate system, just measuring road distance from that
defined point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilometre_Zero

enjoy,
Štefan

On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 8:52 AM, Mike Collinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 At 05:00 AM 15/05/2008, Francois De Ryckel wrote:
Hello everyone,

How would you tag the zero point of a country?

Shouldn't be an important tag as distances in a country are measure from
that point?

Thanks for the advices.


François de Ryckel

 François,

 I don't know if this will suit your particular requirements, but I've 
 published a list of country bounds here which includes a centre lat/lon:

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/User:Ewmjc/Country_bounds

 This was generated from US government (public domain!) GNIS data.  This is a 
 dataset of several million location points around the world conveniently 
 categorised by country.  I simply calculated a bounding box for each country 
 and then the centre point of that box.

 I then generated about 80% of the OSM place=country tags using the centre 
 point to locate the tag.  The OSM database should now have a tag for every 
 country in the world (at least as defined by the US government).

 There are some inaccuracies though and I am working on  a version two.  In 
 particular, I included marine features which makes several boxes too large, 
 and may throw the centre point to a strange location.  Once I have this 
 sorted, I intend to add a lat_max ... lon_min or some such tags to the 
 country tags.  You could then derive a zero point directly from the OSM 
 database.

 Mike



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[OSM-talk] rendering of nature_reserve

[Stefan Baebler]

Good morning!

While mapping boundaries of an Kornati archipelago national park it came 
to my attention that leisure=nature_reserve assumes land cover in 
mapnik, rendering it green with NR pattern. Osmarender doesn't render 
it, but am not sure whether that is intentional or just forgotten.

Because my efforts aren't yet rendered in mapnik i found other examples 
where nature_reserve includes water, but is rendered green, as is the 
case of a bay at
http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=-41.10877lon=174.85456zoom=17layers=B0FT
(switch between Mapnik and Osmarender)
Author there tried fixing this by moving the nature reserve under other 
features to layer=-1, but it only worked for footpaths etc, not for 
coastline.

While in above case the problem might be fixed by moving the border of a 
nature reserve to coastline it certainly cannot be done for areas where 
water areas are being specifically protected (archipelagos, bays, 
fjords), such as Kornati archipelago national park: 
http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=43.7992lon=15.3375zoom=12layers=0BFT

Is it a Mapnik problem or my (and appearantly other's people also) wrong 
understanding that nature reserve can include water areas. I believe 
Mapnik should just render this non-physical feature only with NR 
pattern, without coloring the area green. In cases of grass or forest 
(physical features) other tags or sub-areas should be added.

I tried to come up with a workaround by using border=national_park 
instead, but this isn't rendered by neither renderer. Is adding 
admin_level=10 (or so) the only solution to mark a group of islands?

Stefan


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Re: [OSM-talk] Rocky beaches

[Stefan Baebler]

natural=scree perhaps?

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Key:natural
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scree

Stefan


On Mon, Apr 14, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Steve Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  I'm attempting to trace some of the Gower coastline from the (very fuzzy)
  Yahoo images.  But I'm not sure how to tag beaches made up of flat rock.

  For example, the type of thing shown by this Google aerial view:
   
 http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=qhl=engeocode=jsv=107ie=UTF8ll=51.561598,-4.302907spn=0.003855,0.015836t=hz=16
  And photograph of the same location:
   http://www.nexusuk.org/photos/other/gower/2006/04/15/img_3465/view

  I don't really want to tag it with just natural=beach since that would
  imply a sandy/shingle beach (i.e. something nice for bathing on), but I
  can't really see an appropriate tag.

   - Steve
 xmpp:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.nexusuk.org/

   Servatis a periculum, servatis a maleficum - Whisper, Evanescence


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Re: [OSM-talk] Name finder and home page search working again

[Stefan Baebler]

On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 12:55 AM, David Earl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On 26/03/2008 19:31, OJ W wrote:
   Is it doing anything with the multilingual names in OSM (name:de=... and
   similar)?
  Yes, that should have been on my list in the previous message.
  This always was included. e.g. try searching for Cologne and Köln (or Koln)

Venice in Italy has name:sl=Benetke
Italy has name:sl=Italija

Searching either for benetke or italija works as expected.
searching for benetke, italija (sl, sl) fails miserably - returning
empty page.

However searching for benetke, italy (sl, en) or benetke, italia
(sl, it) works flawlessly.

how exactly is the context determined?
a) is_in tag on the node, thus requiring additional (imo redundant)
is_in:sl=Italija, Evropa tag on Venice
b) closeness of the nodes (might be ok for cities, but countries vary
a lot in size)
c) inclusion in a context polygon (country, city)

Similar problem is with dunaj, avstrija (sl, sl) = vienna, austria
(en, en) = wien, osterreich (de, de)

Perhaps matches in the same language should be ranked higher than
matches fro mmixed languages

Bigger entities should also be ranked higher (continent  country 
city  town  village  street ...) if no difference in context is
found
Try searching for europe or austria. For the latter unique
avstrija (sl) gives far better results :)

Performance is much better than yesterday!

greets,
Stefan
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Re: [OSM-talk] Cooperative Differential GPS

[Stefan Baebler]

Gora Mohanty wrote:
 (Please note that I am copying this message to the OpenStreetMap
  folk: http://openstreetmap.org as we will hopefully find more
  GPS/mapping experts there. Please edit the list of recipients
  if you need to.)

 On Thu, 27 Mar 2008 14:24:56 +0100
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   
 Hi all!

 After hours of searching the web for information about the new Antaris GPS 
 chip I am still not sure if it will be possible to use the raw data output 
 of 
 the ATR0635 (message type RXM-RAW) on the Neo FreeRunner. This message 
 should, according to the protocol specification [1], contain information 
 about the per-satellite errors necessary to build something like 
 a cooperative differential GPS [2]. Such an application could - in theory 
 - 
 greatly improve the accuracy of the Neo-GPS and therefore open it up to a 
 whole new range of use-cases.
 
 [...]

 Thanks for bringing this up, as this is is a topic that I am very much
 interested in. We are just starting to explore this area, but the AGPS
 capabilities of the Neo 1973 was one reason that we went ahead and bought
 this. However, I do not know what AGPS support means in real terms.
   
As far as I understand from globallocate's (globallocate.com) 
implementation of AGPS in my iPaq it seems that AGPS means obtaining 
orbital data of all GPS satellites in advance. Once downloaded (looks 
like same set of files regardless of the device's position in the 
world!) such data can be used for up to 52 hours to assist the GPS in 
locating the device. This can only mean that the downloaded files 
contain precisely predicted orbital data of all GPS satellites, which 
can drastically shorten the time to get a GPS fix after a cold start, 
saving time and battery (and potentially lives in marketing speech :) ).

I can try getting the files' content (or URL), but that is most likely 
encrypted somehow, with some part of encryption/decryption done in their 
hardware (GPS receiver chip) to ensure sales of own chipset, and 
stopping others from piggybacking on their orbital data.

As far as i am familiar with Neo 1973, its GPS chipset is also made by 
globallocate (recently acquired by Broadcom), so the principle might be 
very similar to the one i described above.

DGPS requires a fixed, stationary GPS nearby, broadcasting position 
drifts (due to atmospheric effects) either via internet or a radio 
channel.
 My naive understanding of this is that a cooperative differential GPS needs
 no external support. One just sits at a base station, and averages GPS
 readings until one knows the position of the base station to an arbitrary
 level of accuracy. After that, the reception of realtime GPS signals at
 the base station provides information about random errors, which I understand
 are largely due to atmospheric fluctuations. Corrections for these are
 derived from the difference between the  well-known actual position of the
 base station, and the received realtime position. These can be broadcast
 through various means, e.g., an Internet DGPS server, and should be good for
 a few hundred km around the base station. The cooperative aspect of this
 comes in because of the benefits of multiple base stations.
   
Yes, this would (to my understanding) be DGPS, cooperative meaning that 
errors (drifts of averaged position) between stationary GPS recievers 
are interpolated to obtain local correction (drift) data. The denser the 
grid, the more precisely the error can be interpolated to accommodate 
for local atmospheric disturbance.
 I would love to be corrected on the above by someone who knows better,
 as this is little more than a surmise on how DGPS should work.
   
Hope i got this right :)

Stefan

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Re: [OSM-talk] FW: Re: New to osmosis and it won't work for me

[Stefan Baebler]

Nathan Scott wrote:
 Ok this may seem like a daft question, but how do you set the path so it 
 uses version 1.6?

 I've installed JAVA1.6 from Sun, but not sure how to force the JAVA calls to 
 use it?
   
you need to change variables
PATH to include java executable directory (or you need to call the java 
executable by full name, including path) and
JAVA_HOME to jre or jdk's base directory (eg JAVA_HOME=C:\Program 
Files\Java\jdk1.6.0_01)

Normally Java installers do this for you i believe.

hope it helps
Stefan
 Thanks and Regards,

 Nathan
 - Original Message - 
 From: Hakan Tandogan [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: talk@openstreetmap.org
 Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 5:38 PM
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] FW: Re: New to osmosis and it won't work for me



 On Fri, February 29, 2008 18:19, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 Hi,


 Better but I now get:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/osmosis-0.24$ sh do_it
 Exception in thread main java.lang.ClassFormatError:
 com.bretth.osmosis.core.Osmosis (unrecognized class file version) at
 java.lang.VMClassLoader.defineClass(libgcj.so.70) at
 

 o.k., next try: that libgcj suggests that you are using the GCJ VM,
 which, according to its web page, supports most of the 1.4 libraries plus
 some 1.5 additions.

 As far as I remember, Osmosis uses some 1.6 features, especially the
 Geometry classes. There is a link to a 1.5 compatible version on the wiki
 ( http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Osmosis#Downloading ), but I'm
 not sure how current that one is or if GCJ+Gnu Classpath is mature enough
 to intepret that version.

 You wrote in an earlier email that you already downloaded JDK1.6 for your
 box. Maybe you need to explicitly set your path to that version?


 Regards,
 Hakan

   


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[OSM-talk] api www down

[Stefan Baebler]

It seems that OSM suddenly got a bit more attention than our servers can handle:
http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/02/26/1255213

www  api are responding slowly or not at all at the moment.

wiki is still up: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Platform_Status

greets,
Stefan

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Re: [OSM-talk] BSSID database

[Stefan Baebler]

Try http://www.wigle.net
It's the place I initialy heard about OSM.

Stefan

Anthony wrote:
 Anyone know where I can get a free database of BSSID locations?  I'm
 trying to hack together a wifi positioning system for my iPod Touch.

 Any chance OSM would be interested in including such a database?  It
 seems like a project well geared toward thousands of people collecting
 local data by driving around recording stuff.

 Sorry if this is a FAQ.  I searched the archives for BSSID and
 didn't come up with anything.

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Re: [OSM-talk] As on ground country names

[Stefan Baebler]

Dave Stubbs wrote:
 On Jan 9, 2008 4:22 PM, Michael Collinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 At 03:06 PM 1/9/2008, Stefan Baebler wrote:
 
 Hi!

 I'd imagine that OSM's as on ground rule for primary names should
 also apply for country nodes (tagged with place=country), however this
 doesn't seem to be the case at the moment.
 http://osmxapi.hypercube.telascience.org/api/0.5/node%5bplace=country%5d
 shows that primary names are english names for most of the countries.

 Any thoughts?
 Do we bend the rule here in favor of english over local name?
 How about multilingual countries (eg. Switzerland)
   
 The main use at the moment will be for the international generic
 map that OSM hosts directly (as 80n writes) but more will come.

 I suggest therefore for the moment that the default name should
 English, repeated as name:en and (at least) the name(s) of the
 country in its own language(s) and script be entered using the ISO
 639-1  [1] language namespace tag:

 

 I'd suggest keeping the exact same philosophy as used everywhere else.
 If you want a generalised english map at the top layer, then just
 rejig the renderer to use the name:en tag. There aren't that many
 countries so it shouldn't be too hard to ensure they all have an :en
 tag. And that way we're not special-casing data entry.

   
Even if there is no name:en, the international renderer can fallback to 
the int_name and then finally to local name attribute.

Sticking to the as on ground rule can probably elegantly avoid some of 
the known naming disputes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Geographical_naming_disputes

Stefan



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