Re: [OSM-talk] naming an item in multiple languages
Robin Paulson robin.paulson at gmail.com writes: so, when i name it, i get something like this: name:en=Mount Eden name:mi=Maungawhau so, what do i put for name=? Put whatever you like - the important thing is that you have unambiguously tagged both the English and Maori names, so people with a preference for one language or the other can be sure of seeing the one they want. Some countries like Belgium have a convention of gluing together two names with a hyphen character and putting that in the name tag. Personally, I don't like that; it seems like tagging for the renderer rather than tagging what is semantically correct. You might want to follow the conventions used by existing paper maps in your country. -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] naming an item in multiple languages
In Brussels we map as follows: name:fr=Avenue Général Jacques name:nl=Generaal Jacqueslaan name=Avenue Général Jacques - Generaal Jacqueslaan Which keeps everybody happy. Names on the signs are bilingual. Polyglot 2011/5/31 Richard Weait rich...@weait.com On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.com wrote: i live in nz, a country with two (three if you count sign langauge) government-approved languages: english and maori. lots of items are named in both, for example the highest volcano in auckland is called Mount Eden/Manugawhau - the latter literally translates as hill of the whau tree so, when i name it, i get something like this: name:en=Mount Eden name:mi=Maungawhau so, what do i put for name=? anything at all? it is mostly known as mount eden, so is it that? some things are more commonly known by their maori name than their english name, e.g.: name:mi=Te Araroa name:en=The Long Path so, it Te Araroa in the name= tag? and then, some only have a maori name. for example, Pukekohe. do i name it name:mi=Pukekohe or name:en=Pukekohe or name=Pukekohe or some combination of these? we also have Auckland, which sits in an area known as Tamaki, although the latter is not clearly enough defined to allow it to be rationally mapped as the city of auckland is*. what to do here? * which makes a nice commentary on the whole highly political nature of mapping, and how a map is a not a benign concept. Some places have a customary arrangement of the alternate names. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.8454lon=4.3472zoom=13layers=M http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=32.606lon=44.035zoom=11layers=M Some places have multiple customary arrangements (or perhaps multiple acceptable arrangements) http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=28.555lon=77.269zoom=9layers=M And others have a history of not agreeing. One fall back guideline for name= is what is on the sign. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] naming an item in multiple languages
See http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/EN:CH:Map_Features (bottom of page) for how we do it in Switzerland. Simon Am 31.05.2011 02:30, schrieb Robin Paulson: i live in nz, a country with two (three if you count sign langauge) government-approved languages: english and maori. lots of items are named in both, for example the highest volcano in auckland is called Mount Eden/Manugawhau - the latter literally translates as hill of the whau tree so, when i name it, i get something like this: name:en=Mount Eden name:mi=Maungawhau so, what do i put for name=? anything at all? it is mostly known as mount eden, so is it that? some things are more commonly known by their maori name than their english name, e.g.: name:mi=Te Araroa name:en=The Long Path so, it Te Araroa in the name= tag? and then, some only have a maori name. for example, Pukekohe. do i name it name:mi=Pukekohe or name:en=Pukekohe or name=Pukekohe or some combination of these? we also have Auckland, which sits in an area known as Tamaki, although the latter is not clearly enough defined to allow it to be rationally mapped as the city of auckland is*. what to do here? * which makes a nice commentary on the whole highly political nature of mapping, and how a map is a not a benign concept. cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] naming an item in multiple languages
On Tue, May 31, 2011 09:30, Robin Paulson wrote: i live in nz, a country with two (three if you count sign langauge) government-approved languages: english and maori. Your own conclusions are fine and sensible. In Korea we have this [1]: name:ko = Korean name in Hangul (Korean characters) name:en = English or Romanised name name = Hangul (English) We also have name:ko_rm=* which is the Romanised version of Korean syllables. There is a similar scheme in Japan. Note that English is not an official language here, but all of the roadsigns are in Korean and English or Romanised English. How it appears depends on the renderer, especially if the renderer can render localised maps based on the user's language choice. There was some discussion a while back about a multi-layered language renderer, which did exactly the Right Thing IMHO. You *should* have something in name=* because that is the 'fall-back' if no other language can be found for the renderer to make a label. Conversely, if there are no other variations in any other language you only need name=*. Finally, you are not limited to just the 'official' languages, e.g. you could add name:fr=* for a French label if there was one. For your examples (IMHO): name:en=Mount Eden name:mi=Maungawhau name=Mount Eden or name=Mount Eden (Maungawhau) name:mi=Te Araroa name:en=The Long Path name=Te Araroa name=Pukekohe we also have Auckland, which sits in an area known as Tamaki If Tamaki can't be defined as a point or area it cannot be mapped. Define it and you can. HTH, Andrew [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Korea_Naming_Convention ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] naming an item in multiple languages
On 31.05.2011 09:19, Andrew Errington wrote: In Korea we have this [1]: name:ko = Korean name in Hangul (Korean characters) name:en = English or Romanised name name = Hangul (English) for Thailand we decided to use the name tag for the official language (Thai). This is in accordance to the common understanding of OSM that the map is mainly for local people, not foreigners. For bilingual maps a special rendering is used printing name:en in addition to the Thai name. All these mapping schemes are quite simple. It could be a lot more complicated and include more attributes for each name. If we see how others do it, Navteq defined four levels for bilingual areas. In the 1200 page document it's in chapter B.1.3 They specify the type of the name and a Language code. Additional names are possible. Each level is based on administrative areas. Level 1 are areas with more than one official language and more than one language is used at the same time, e.g. Brussels in Belgium. All names are tagged as base names. e.g. name:dut:base=Brussel name:fre:base=Bruxelles name:spa:exonym=Bruselas Level 2 are areas in which only one language is used as primary language. e.g. Wales. Other names are tagges as exonymes. Level 3 are areas that have no specific primary language. Navteq decided to use one of the names as the main name based on the primary language of the country. Level 4 are areas that have a different official language than the administrative area e.g. Bernina. In addition they defined types for transcrition and transliterations. So what is the conclusion? We might specify a lot more rules for the naming, possibly creating a reference manual larger than that of the big data providers. That would make it quite easy for the software to pick the right value based on rules. Or we live with the fact that each country uses slight variations of the naming scheme that fits best the need of that country and community. Stephan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] naming an item in multiple languages
i live in nz, a country with two (three if you count sign langauge) government-approved languages: english and maori. lots of items are named in both, for example the highest volcano in auckland is called Mount Eden/Manugawhau - the latter literally translates as hill of the whau tree so, when i name it, i get something like this: name:en=Mount Eden name:mi=Maungawhau so, what do i put for name=? anything at all? it is mostly known as mount eden, so is it that? some things are more commonly known by their maori name than their english name, e.g.: name:mi=Te Araroa name:en=The Long Path so, it Te Araroa in the name= tag? and then, some only have a maori name. for example, Pukekohe. do i name it name:mi=Pukekohe or name:en=Pukekohe or name=Pukekohe or some combination of these? we also have Auckland, which sits in an area known as Tamaki, although the latter is not clearly enough defined to allow it to be rationally mapped as the city of auckland is*. what to do here? * which makes a nice commentary on the whole highly political nature of mapping, and how a map is a not a benign concept. cheers -- robin http://bumblepuppy.org/blog/?p=237 - government bill to remove basic human rights in NZ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] naming an item in multiple languages
On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.com wrote: i live in nz, a country with two (three if you count sign langauge) government-approved languages: english and maori. lots of items are named in both, for example the highest volcano in auckland is called Mount Eden/Manugawhau - the latter literally translates as hill of the whau tree so, when i name it, i get something like this: name:en=Mount Eden name:mi=Maungawhau so, what do i put for name=? anything at all? it is mostly known as mount eden, so is it that? some things are more commonly known by their maori name than their english name, e.g.: name:mi=Te Araroa name:en=The Long Path so, it Te Araroa in the name= tag? and then, some only have a maori name. for example, Pukekohe. do i name it name:mi=Pukekohe or name:en=Pukekohe or name=Pukekohe or some combination of these? we also have Auckland, which sits in an area known as Tamaki, although the latter is not clearly enough defined to allow it to be rationally mapped as the city of auckland is*. what to do here? * which makes a nice commentary on the whole highly political nature of mapping, and how a map is a not a benign concept. Some places have a customary arrangement of the alternate names. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=50.8454lon=4.3472zoom=13layers=M http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=32.606lon=44.035zoom=11layers=M Some places have multiple customary arrangements (or perhaps multiple acceptable arrangements) http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=28.555lon=77.269zoom=9layers=M And others have a history of not agreeing. One fall back guideline for name= is what is on the sign. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] naming an item in multiple languages
We have the same sort of thing in Canada. Ottawa is a particular problem as the streets have both an English name and a French name. The way I've set up Ottawa is to use name=Albert Street and name:frrue Albert. The normal rendering systems show the English name but I have a set of rules set up in Maperitive that displays the name:fr values if desired. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.42033lon=-75.6927zoom=16layers=O shows the normal English display. To get the French you need to use a different rendering system such as custom rules with Maperitive. The link with an off-line map of Ottawa and the Maperitive rules is here. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WkJzx5NffRv0TIQgCFFGTQzyqbQ9XDphSLqcjuM8wGM/edit?hl=en_US If you have a dig in the wiki that's the recommended method. Cheerio John On 30 May 2011 20:30, Robin Paulson robin.paul...@gmail.com wrote: i live in nz, a country with two (three if you count sign langauge) government-approved languages: english and maori. lots of items are named in both, for example the highest volcano in auckland is called Mount Eden/Manugawhau - the latter literally translates as hill of the whau tree so, when i name it, i get something like this: name:en=Mount Eden name:mi=Maungawhau so, what do i put for name=? anything at all? it is mostly known as mount eden, so is it that? some things are more commonly known by their maori name than their english name, e.g.: name:mi=Te Araroa name:en=The Long Path so, it Te Araroa in the name= tag? and then, some only have a maori name. for example, Pukekohe. do i name it name:mi=Pukekohe or name:en=Pukekohe or name=Pukekohe or some combination of these? we also have Auckland, which sits in an area known as Tamaki, although the latter is not clearly enough defined to allow it to be rationally mapped as the city of auckland is*. what to do here? * which makes a nice commentary on the whole highly political nature of mapping, and how a map is a not a benign concept. cheers -- robin http://bumblepuppy.org/blog/?p=237 - government bill to remove basic human rights in NZ ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
