Re: [talk-au] Blank map in remote country areas

[Warin]

The OSM map is great in hi density places like Europe and USA.
The map is configured to show these places well, this is where most 
people look.


In low density places like Australia, Africa, Siberia the map is devoid 
of information.


What is needed is a bit of detection that the map lacks content and then 
to add features that would normal show when zoomed in, at this zoom level.

How can this detection be done?
Possibly by the number of nodes, ways and relations rendered would be 
simplest. If that number is low add more things in until a minimum is 
reached.
This would get around the inclination of mapping for the render and give 
us a better map everywhere.
Of course this only works where there is data not shown! Adding sand 
hills in the Simpson is not fun, I have done some in the east ... should 
do some in the west too.


I assume the same problem is evident in other online/gps maps. The 
advantage of a GPS map is that they usually cover an area smaller than 
the world so can implement local rules.


On 22/01/19 14:26, Ben Kelley wrote:


Hi.

So there are 2 issues (it seems): At what zoom does the road show, and 
at what zoom does the name show?


Take for example https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/-31.7211/150.4649

At this zoom no roads have names.

Zoom in to 12, and you see highway=unclassified roads that weren't 
visible at 11.


You don't start to see the names of any roads at all until zoom 13. At 
zoom 15 you see the names of all roads.


I think showing more detail a little bit sooner when there is less 
detail to show is going to be a difficult problem for a renderer to 
solve in a way that makes more sense than the current popular renderers.


I think going from some roads to all roads over 2 zooms (13->15) is 
not a bad compromise.



 - Ben.

On 22/1/19 13:50, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
A while back, there was mention on the list of OSM only showing vast 
amounts of blank whiteness when looking at remote country areas; & 
then there was further mention regarding Aussie country roads not 
showing up well enough in OSM.


A lady I speak to on another forum, lives in a small town in FNQ, & 
had complained on the forum about various on-line maps not showing 
any details.


After I asked her for some details, so we could possibly examine 
things, she has said: (for privacy, I have deleted the name of her 
actual town):


I live in an isolated remote town called xxx, although not as 
isolated as some. Two hours/150km west of Mareeba and three 
hours/210km west of Cairns.
So its: Cairns, Mareeba, Dimbulah, Petford, Almaden, Chillagoe. 
Petford & Almaden are way smaller than x.


I rarely use Google Maps, but use Google Earth a lot. Today is 
probably the first time I've looked at GM for this specific area.


I've now realised OpenStreetMaps is actually no worse than Google 
Maps, and in some things it's actually better.


Zooming into xx, OpenStreetMaps is accurate and up-to-date, with 
roads and tracks that are actually in use.


Google Maps shows streets that no longer exist. They may be/have 
been/are gazetted roads, but now don't even look like they ever 
existed even in track form (although they did way way back in the 
mining days, I think).


The problem when I originally commented was that if I looked at the 
area between Dimbulah (or Petford) and Chillagoe, there was nothing 
to tell me the name of the road. But looking at Google Maps today, 
there's nothing there either. Although when I zoom in a name comes up 
more quickly than it does on OpenStreetMaps.


If I'm looking at a hard copy paper map from RACQ or Sunmap or 
whoever, I can see at a glance where I am and what the names of 
everything are.


It's just that our distances are vast, and at the amount zoomed out 
that I want some detail, the populated areas have no detail either. 
So in a way I can't expect it.


However, outback roads are usually the *only* roads there are and it 
would be nice to have labelling when that much zoomed out. (Is this 
making sense to you?)


I have a reasonable knowledge of east coast highways and roads 
between them (mainly Qld and NSW) and reference to a map is just 
double checking or looking for shortcuts or detours. I'm a bit of a 
map freak. Have a stack of hard copy maps for the east coast, and 
spend time on Google Earth and Google Maps just checking out old and 
new roads, and looking up places I read about in the news. 
Unfortunately I'm not that good with terrain on topo maps, but never 
needed to use them enough. And I've recently learned that I need to 
double check altitudes on GE before I make assumptions about 
geography. Not always what it looks like.


Here is a starting point for my area. (Bearing in mind I'm on a Sony 
Vaio with a 13 inch screen (13.3" ??).)


Google Maps
Seems to have more 'stops' in its zoom ability.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-17.3121687,144.755859,11.75z
Looking at it today

OpenStreetMap
Unfamiliar map. If I zoom in more than this 

Re: [talk-au] Blank map in remote country areas

[Ben Kelley]

Hi.

So there are 2 issues (it seems): At what zoom does the road show, and 
at what zoom does the name show?


Take for example https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/-31.7211/150.4649

At this zoom no roads have names.

Zoom in to 12, and you see highway=unclassified roads that weren't 
visible at 11.


You don't start to see the names of any roads at all until zoom 13. At 
zoom 15 you see the names of all roads.


I think showing more detail a little bit sooner when there is less 
detail to show is going to be a difficult problem for a renderer to 
solve in a way that makes more sense than the current popular renderers.


I think going from some roads to all roads over 2 zooms (13->15) is not 
a bad compromise.



 - Ben.

On 22/1/19 13:50, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
A while back, there was mention on the list of OSM only showing vast 
amounts of blank whiteness when looking at remote country areas; & 
then there was further mention regarding Aussie country roads not 
showing up well enough in OSM.


A lady I speak to on another forum, lives in a small town in FNQ, & 
had complained on the forum about various on-line maps not showing any 
details.


After I asked her for some details, so we could possibly examine 
things, she has said: (for privacy, I have deleted the name of her 
actual town):


I live in an isolated remote town called xxx, although not as 
isolated as some. Two hours/150km west of Mareeba and three 
hours/210km west of Cairns.
So its: Cairns, Mareeba, Dimbulah, Petford, Almaden, Chillagoe. 
Petford & Almaden are way smaller than x.


I rarely use Google Maps, but use Google Earth a lot. Today is 
probably the first time I've looked at GM for this specific area.


I've now realised OpenStreetMaps is actually no worse than Google 
Maps, and in some things it's actually better.


Zooming into xx, OpenStreetMaps is accurate and up-to-date, with 
roads and tracks that are actually in use.


Google Maps shows streets that no longer exist. They may be/have 
been/are gazetted roads, but now don't even look like they ever 
existed even in track form (although they did way way back in the 
mining days, I think).


The problem when I originally commented was that if I looked at the 
area between Dimbulah (or Petford) and Chillagoe, there was nothing to 
tell me the name of the road. But looking at Google Maps today, 
there's nothing there either. Although when I zoom in a name comes up 
more quickly than it does on OpenStreetMaps.


If I'm looking at a hard copy paper map from RACQ or Sunmap or 
whoever, I can see at a glance where I am and what the names of 
everything are.


It's just that our distances are vast, and at the amount zoomed out 
that I want some detail, the populated areas have no detail either. So 
in a way I can't expect it.


However, outback roads are usually the *only* roads there are and it 
would be nice to have labelling when that much zoomed out. (Is this 
making sense to you?)


I have a reasonable knowledge of east coast highways and roads between 
them (mainly Qld and NSW) and reference to a map is just double 
checking or looking for shortcuts or detours. I'm a bit of a map 
freak. Have a stack of hard copy maps for the east coast, and spend 
time on Google Earth and Google Maps just checking out old and new 
roads, and looking up places I read about in the news. Unfortunately 
I'm not that good with terrain on topo maps, but never needed to use 
them enough. And I've recently learned that I need to double check 
altitudes on GE before I make assumptions about geography. Not always 
what it looks like.


Here is a starting point for my area. (Bearing in mind I'm on a Sony 
Vaio with a 13 inch screen (13.3" ??).)


Google Maps
Seems to have more 'stops' in its zoom ability.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-17.3121687,144.755859,11.75z
Looking at it today

OpenStreetMap
Unfamiliar map. If I zoom in more than this I have absolutely nothing...
Not enough 'stops' in the zoom. All or nothing.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/-17.2500/144.7895

Also, at first glance it looks like the railway line is the main road. 
In fact you can't see there's a road there until I zoom right in. You 
can see the rest of Burke Development Road to Chillagoe, you can see 
the road from Petford to Irvinebank, but you can't see the Almaden 
Gingerella Road running generally to the west of the rail line, and on 
down to Mount Garnet or Mount Surprise. You wouldn't know it was 
there. (Local name is the Ootan Road.)


Google Maps is not much better to look at, but you can see the road, 
and the road is 'highlighted' (slightly)more than the rail line.


This railway line carries The Savannahlander which leaves Cairns for 
Forsayth on Wednesday and returns on Saturday except in the Wet 
Season. Nothing else travels on it, except the occasional QR Toyota 
with rail wheels.


So, to me, a lot of this would seem to tie in with country roads being 
mapped as =unclassified (& I noticed 

[talk-au] Blank map in remote country areas

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

A while back, there was mention on the list of OSM only showing vast
amounts of blank whiteness when looking at remote country areas; & then
there was further mention regarding Aussie country roads not showing up
well enough in OSM.

A lady I speak to on another forum, lives in a small town in FNQ, & had
complained on the forum about various on-line maps not showing any details.

After I asked her for some details, so we could possibly examine things,
she has said: (for privacy, I have deleted the name of her actual town):

I live in an isolated remote town called xxx, although not as isolated
as some. Two hours/150km west of Mareeba and three hours/210km west of
Cairns.
So its: Cairns, Mareeba, Dimbulah, Petford, Almaden, Chillagoe. Petford &
Almaden are way smaller than x.

I rarely use Google Maps, but use Google Earth a lot. Today is probably the
first time I've looked at GM for this specific area.

I've now realised OpenStreetMaps is actually no worse than Google Maps, and
in some things it's actually better.

Zooming into xx, OpenStreetMaps is accurate and up-to-date, with roads
and tracks that are actually in use.

Google Maps shows streets that no longer exist. They may be/have been/are
gazetted roads, but now don't even look like they ever existed even in
track form (although they did way way back in the mining days, I think).

The problem when I originally commented was that if I looked at the area
between Dimbulah (or Petford) and Chillagoe, there was nothing to tell me
the name of the road. But looking at Google Maps today, there's nothing
there either. Although when I zoom in a name comes up more quickly than it
does on OpenStreetMaps.

If I'm looking at a hard copy paper map from RACQ or Sunmap or whoever, I
can see at a glance where I am and what the names of everything are.

It's just that our distances are vast, and at the amount zoomed out that I
want some detail, the populated areas have no detail either. So in a way I
can't expect it.

However, outback roads are usually the *only* roads there are and it would
be nice to have labelling when that much zoomed out. (Is this making sense
to you?)

I have a reasonable knowledge of east coast highways and roads between them
(mainly Qld and NSW) and reference to a map is just double checking or
looking for shortcuts or detours. I'm a bit of a map freak. Have a stack of
hard copy maps for the east coast, and spend time on Google Earth and
Google Maps just checking out old and new roads, and looking up places I
read about in the news. Unfortunately I'm not that good with terrain on
topo maps, but never needed to use them enough. And I've recently learned
that I need to double check altitudes on GE before I make assumptions about
geography. Not always what it looks like.

Here is a starting point for my area. (Bearing in mind I'm on a Sony Vaio
with a 13 inch screen (13.3" ??).)

Google Maps
Seems to have more 'stops' in its zoom ability.
https://www.google.com.au/maps/@-17.3121687,144.755859,11.75z
Looking at it today

OpenStreetMap
Unfamiliar map. If I zoom in more than this I have absolutely nothing...
Not enough 'stops' in the zoom. All or nothing.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/-17.2500/144.7895

Also, at first glance it looks like the railway line is the main road. In
fact you can't see there's a road there until I zoom right in. You can see
the rest of Burke Development Road to Chillagoe, you can see the road from
Petford to Irvinebank, but you can't see the Almaden Gingerella Road
running generally to the west of the rail line, and on down to Mount Garnet
or Mount Surprise. You wouldn't know it was there. (Local name is the Ootan
Road.)

Google Maps is not much better to look at, but you can see the road, and
the road is 'highlighted' (slightly)more than the rail line.
This railway line carries The Savannahlander which leaves Cairns for
Forsayth on Wednesday and returns on Saturday except in the Wet Season.
Nothing else travels on it, except the occasional QR Toyota with rail
wheels.

So, to me, a lot of this would seem to tie in with country roads being
mapped as =unclassified (& I noticed from clearing some of the Telenav
errors, that it doesn't seem to like highway=unclassified, having street
names?), with even the "main" road only being =secondary (if that!).

Her other comment re population areas not being visible is also tied back
in to the frequent discussions we've had about size of places, Europe v Oz
- these "towns" are (correctly) mapped as place=villages as they only have
200-300 people living in them, but they're the social, commercial &
financial centre for a couple of thousand sq km :-(

Nice to hear that we actually compare quite well with the mega-$ enemy :-),
but it would be nice to be able to do better! :-)

Any thoughts of any way of fixing this sort of "problem", apart from lieing
to the map? :-)

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] Naming Bus Stops for interchanges in Sydney

[cleary]

In Sydney, many stops display the stop number but I'm not sure if we have 
another source for this data - in NSW, the convention is that the first four 
numbers  are the postcode of the suburb. So all stops in Strathfield would have 
a 6 or 7 digit number with the first four digits being the postcode for the 
suburb.  For example stands A to D at Strathfield have their numbers included 
in OSM with the tag "local_ref="





On Tue, 22 Jan 2019, at 12:21 PM, Warin wrote:
> On 22/01/19 12:03, Sam Wilson wrote:
> > On 1/21/19 4:58 PM, Warin wrote:
> >> I have used (misused?) the ref to tag the routes that use that bus 
> >> stop, then some one has put the stop 'number' in as local_ref.
> >> Possibly the stop number is a 'operator_ref' ... whatever, no 
> >> practical use to the normal person.
> >
> > I actually find the ref super useful, because with the Transperth app 
> > in WA you can search by stop ID and it's quicker and a lot more 
> > accurate than searching by street name etc. They're displayed in 
> > OSMAnd, and that's usually where I get them from.
> 
> How do you know the number to start your search?
> 
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Re: [talk-au] Naming Bus Stops for interchanges in Sydney

[Warin]

On 22/01/19 12:20, Warin wrote:

On 22/01/19 12:03, Sam Wilson wrote:

On 1/21/19 4:58 PM, Warin wrote:
I have used (misused?) the ref to tag the routes that use that bus 
stop, then some one has put the stop 'number' in as local_ref.
Possibly the stop number is a 'operator_ref' ... whatever, no 
practical use to the normal person.


I actually find the ref super useful, because with the Transperth app 
in WA you can search by stop ID and it's quicker and a lot more 
accurate than searching by street name etc. They're displayed in 
OSMAnd, and that's usually where I get them from.


How do you know the number to start your search?


Arr .. sorry did not absorb that you got them from OSMand .. will have 
to try that locally here.


Yep it works here too... so I have not recorded them here, will add it 
to the list of 'things to do'.



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Re: [talk-au] Naming Bus Stops for interchanges in Sydney

[Warin]

On 22/01/19 12:03, Sam Wilson wrote:

On 1/21/19 4:58 PM, Warin wrote:
I have used (misused?) the ref to tag the routes that use that bus 
stop, then some one has put the stop 'number' in as local_ref.
Possibly the stop number is a 'operator_ref' ... whatever, no 
practical use to the normal person.


I actually find the ref super useful, because with the Transperth app 
in WA you can search by stop ID and it's quicker and a lot more 
accurate than searching by street name etc. They're displayed in 
OSMAnd, and that's usually where I get them from.


How do you know the number to start your search?

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Re: [talk-au] Naming Bus Stops for interchanges in Sydney

[Sam Wilson]

On 1/21/19 4:58 PM, Warin wrote:
I have used (misused?) the ref to tag the routes that use that bus stop, 
then some one has put the stop 'number' in as local_ref.
Possibly the stop number is a 'operator_ref' ... whatever, no practical 
use to the normal person.


I actually find the ref super useful, because with the Transperth app in 
WA you can search by stop ID and it's quicker and a lot more accurate 
than searching by street name etc. They're displayed in OSMAnd, and 
that's usually where I get them from.


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Re: [talk-au] Naming Bus Stops for interchanges in Sydney

[Warin]

Yes, I have seen the ref tag used for some number that occurs on the bus 
stop.
I have used (misused?) the ref to tag the routes that use that bus stop, 
then some one has put the stop 'number' in as local_ref.
Possibly the stop number is a 'operator_ref' ... whatever, no practical 
use to the normal person.
The routes that stop at a bus stop .. might better go into a comments 
tag - help others who might be mapping routes using the already entered 
bus stops?


 In crowed space you have to zoom in, as always. Possibly a search 
function may work?


On 22/01/19 11:40, Sam Wilson wrote:

I agree, putting the stand name first makes sense.

I've been putting ref=1234 tags on stands (with their ID from the 
sign), but for some reason haven't ever thought to add the name as 
well; I shall do so from now on.


On 1/21/19 4:26 PM, Michael Collinson wrote:
In Sweden, I have seen the "F" going into the ref tag. Just a 
thought, I don't recall how it affects rendering in common schemes. 
Con: Clash with a more rigorous ref num giving by the transport 
authority, "40459" or such. Another (complementary) practice is to 
put just "F" as the name - which has the secondary benefit of being 
more likely to render out in a crowded space. The other detail 
perhaps being better suited to the corresponding bus_station 
node/area/relation.


Else, +1 from me, the proposal seems useful to me as a smart 
refinement of local practice.


Mike

On 2019-01-22 10:26, Warin wrote:

Are there anydissenters?
I'll give it a week.
Any feed back from other places In Australia?
On 21/01/19 20:00, cleary wrote:

As a regular user of public transport, I agree.


On Mon, Jan 21, 2019, at 4:39 PM, Warin wrote:

Hi,


At present the names of bus stops goes something like

name=Strathfield Station, Albert Rd (Stand F).


The web transport trip planers direct you to Stand F, yet this is not
very visiblein OSM renderings as that information is last.


Would it not be best to have the name put the more detailed 
information
first and the generalproximity information last, much like an 
address?


Such as

name=Stand F, Albert Rd, Strathfield Station


Thoughts?








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Re: [talk-au] Naming Bus Stops for interchanges in Sydney

[David Wales]

Why not:

name=Stand F, Strathfield Station
addr:street=Albert Road

On 22/1/19 11:26 am, Michael Collinson wrote:
> In Sweden, I have seen the "F" going into the ref tag. Just a thought, I
> don't recall how it affects rendering in common schemes. Con: Clash with
> a more rigorous ref num giving by the transport authority, "40459" or
> such. Another (complementary) practice is to put just "F" as the name -
> which has the secondary benefit of being more likely to render out in a
> crowded space. The other detail perhaps being better suited to the
> corresponding bus_station node/area/relation.
> 
> Else, +1 from me, the proposal seems useful to me as a smart refinement
> of local practice.
> 
> Mike
> 
> On 2019-01-22 10:26, Warin wrote:
>> Are there any dissenters? 
>> I'll give it a week.
>> Any feed back from other places In Australia? 
>> On 21/01/19 20:00, cleary wrote:
>>> As a regular user of public transport, I agree.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019, at 4:39 PM, Warin wrote:
 Hi,


 At present the names of bus stops goes something like

 name=Strathfield Station, Albert Rd (Stand F).


 The web transport trip planers direct you to Stand F, yet this is not 
 very visiblein OSM renderings as that information is last.


 Would it not be best to have the name put the more detailed information 
 first and the generalproximity information last, much like an address?

 Such as

 name=Stand F, Albert Rd, Strathfield Station


 Thoughts?


>>
>>
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Re: [talk-au] Naming Bus Stops for interchanges in Sydney

[Sam Wilson]

I agree, putting the stand name first makes sense.

I've been putting ref=1234 tags on stands (with their ID from the sign), 
but for some reason haven't ever thought to add the name as well; I 
shall do so from now on.


On 1/21/19 4:26 PM, Michael Collinson wrote:
In Sweden, I have seen the "F" going into the ref tag. Just a thought, I 
don't recall how it affects rendering in common schemes. Con: Clash with 
a more rigorous ref num giving by the transport authority, "40459" or 
such. Another (complementary) practice is to put just "F" as the name - 
which has the secondary benefit of being more likely to render out in a 
crowded space. The other detail perhaps being better suited to the 
corresponding bus_station node/area/relation.


Else, +1 from me, the proposal seems useful to me as a smart refinement 
of local practice.


Mike

On 2019-01-22 10:26, Warin wrote:

Are there anydissenters?
I'll give it a week.
Any feed back from other places In Australia?
On 21/01/19 20:00, cleary wrote:

As a regular user of public transport, I agree.


On Mon, Jan 21, 2019, at 4:39 PM, Warin wrote:

Hi,


At present the names of bus stops goes something like

name=Strathfield Station, Albert Rd (Stand F).


The web transport trip planers direct you to Stand F, yet this is not
very visiblein OSM renderings as that information is last.


Would it not be best to have the name put the more detailed information
first and the generalproximity information last, much like an address?

Such as

name=Stand F, Albert Rd, Strathfield Station


Thoughts?





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Re: [talk-au] Naming Bus Stops for interchanges in Sydney

[Michael Collinson]

In Sweden, I have seen the "F" going into the ref tag. Just a thought, I 
don't recall how it affects rendering in common schemes. Con: Clash with 
a more rigorous ref num giving by the transport authority, "40459" or 
such. Another (complementary) practice is to put just "F" as the name - 
which has the secondary benefit of being more likely to render out in a 
crowded space. The other detail perhaps being better suited to the 
corresponding bus_station node/area/relation.


Else, +1 from me, the proposal seems useful to me as a smart refinement 
of local practice.


Mike

On 2019-01-22 10:26, Warin wrote:

Are there anydissenters?
I'll give it a week.
Any feed back from other places In Australia?
On 21/01/19 20:00, cleary wrote:

As a regular user of public transport, I agree.


On Mon, Jan 21, 2019, at 4:39 PM, Warin wrote:

Hi,


At present the names of bus stops goes something like

name=Strathfield Station, Albert Rd (Stand F).


The web transport trip planers direct you to Stand F, yet this is not
very visiblein OSM renderings as that information is last.


Would it not be best to have the name put the more detailed information
first and the generalproximity information last, much like an address?

Such as

name=Stand F, Albert Rd, Strathfield Station


Thoughts?





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Re: [talk-au] Naming Bus Stops for interchanges in Sydney

[Warin]

Are there anydissenters?

I'll give it a week.

Any feed back from other places In Australia?

On 21/01/19 20:00, cleary wrote:


As a regular user of public transport, I agree.


On Mon, Jan 21, 2019, at 4:39 PM, Warin wrote:

Hi,


At present the names of bus stops goes something like

name=Strathfield Station, Albert Rd (Stand F).


The web transport trip planers direct you to Stand F, yet this is not
very visiblein OSM renderings as that information is last.


Would it not be best to have the name put the more detailed information
first and the generalproximity information last, much like an address?

Such as

name=Stand F, Albert Rd, Strathfield Station


Thoughts?




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Re: [talk-au] Our work in last two weeks

[Warin]

For me, split ways means that there is some barrier between the two.
If there is no barrier then they should not be split.



On 22/01/19 08:33, David Wales wrote:
I don't know what the OSM convention is for this, but I tend to agree 
with Nemanja. It makes more sense to split the two halves of the road, 
rather than have them as a single way.


On 22 January 2019 8:23:35 am AEDT, "Nemanja Bračko" 
 wrote:


@Warin,

I personally do not see why is it wrong if you split? It is just
two segments merged in one node. Geometry and data are exactly the
same just it is represented as two, instead of one line.

If we go deeper in this issue, it is actually wrong, because you
have marked/mapped 2 physical segments with just one line. Angle
is not natural for any road. However, it doesn't make any
difference in routing so it is acceptable to be mapped as one line
in cases like this.

Thanks,
Nemanja

On Mon, 21 Jan 2019, 21:33 Ben Kelley, mailto:ben.kel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Personally I think that's a handy warning.

   - Ben



On Tue., 22 Jan. 2019, 07:25 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com
 wrote:

On 22/01/19 02:45, Nemanja Bračko wrote:

I agree on that, but that's the way how this tool works.


So you will have to accept that the tool is wrong and
ignore its output.

Altering the map to comply with a tool that is wrong is
wrong.




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Re: [talk-au] Our work in last two weeks

[David Wales]

I don't know what the OSM convention is for this, but I tend to agree with 
Nemanja. It makes more sense to split the two halves of the road, rather than 
have them as a single way. 

On 22 January 2019 8:23:35 am AEDT, "Nemanja Bračko"  wrote:
>@Warin,
>
>I personally do not see why is it wrong if you split? It is just two
>segments merged in one node. Geometry and data are exactly the same
>just it
>is represented as two, instead of one line.
>
>If we go deeper in this issue, it is actually wrong, because you have
>marked/mapped 2 physical segments with just one line. Angle is not
>natural
>for any road. However, it doesn't make any difference in routing so it
>is
>acceptable to be mapped as one line in cases like this.
>
>Thanks,
>Nemanja
>
>On Mon, 21 Jan 2019, 21:33 Ben Kelley,  wrote:
>
>> Personally I think that's a handy warning.
>>
>>- Ben
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue., 22 Jan. 2019, 07:25 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> On 22/01/19 02:45, Nemanja Bračko wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree on that, but that's the way how this tool works.
>>>
>>>
>>> So you will have to accept that the tool is wrong and ignore its
>output.
>>>
>>> Altering the map to comply with a tool that is wrong is wrong.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>
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>
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Re: [talk-au] Our work in last two weeks

[Nemanja Bračko]

@Warin,

I personally do not see why is it wrong if you split? It is just two
segments merged in one node. Geometry and data are exactly the same just it
is represented as two, instead of one line.

If we go deeper in this issue, it is actually wrong, because you have
marked/mapped 2 physical segments with just one line. Angle is not natural
for any road. However, it doesn't make any difference in routing so it is
acceptable to be mapped as one line in cases like this.

Thanks,
Nemanja

On Mon, 21 Jan 2019, 21:33 Ben Kelley,  wrote:

> Personally I think that's a handy warning.
>
>- Ben
>
>
>
> On Tue., 22 Jan. 2019, 07:25 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On 22/01/19 02:45, Nemanja Bračko wrote:
>>
>> I agree on that, but that's the way how this tool works.
>>
>>
>> So you will have to accept that the tool is wrong and ignore its output.
>>
>> Altering the map to comply with a tool that is wrong is wrong.
>>
>>
>>
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>
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Re: [talk-au] Our work in last two weeks

[Ben Kelley]

Personally I think that's a handy warning.

   - Ben



On Tue., 22 Jan. 2019, 07:25 Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:

> On 22/01/19 02:45, Nemanja Bračko wrote:
>
> I agree on that, but that's the way how this tool works.
>
>
> So you will have to accept that the tool is wrong and ignore its output.
>
> Altering the map to comply with a tool that is wrong is wrong.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] Our work in last two weeks

[Warin]

On 22/01/19 02:45, Nemanja Bračko wrote:

I agree on that, but that's the way how this tool works.


So you will have to accept that the tool is wrong and ignore its output.

Altering the map to comply with a tool that is wrong is wrong.


On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 4:32 PM Marc Gemis > wrote:


I think the QA tool should/could see that the sharp corner is in a
point shared with another way and that there is no reason to
report a warning.


On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 4:26 PM Nemanja Bračko mailto:brack...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Because tool doesn't know is this a special (allowed) case, or
user's mistake. It just reports that geometry is not logical.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 4:21 PM Marc Gemis
mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Why does a split make any difference ? Is this a "special"
feature of the QA-tool you are using ?
The QA tool should understand that the sharp U-turn is not
the only route one can follow.

m.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 10:58 AM Nemanja Bračko
mailto:brack...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi!

You've been flagged as "Impossible angle in highway"
many times because of these situations:
2019-01-21 10_52_54-Window-min.jpg

Just split this way (do not map it as one segment),
and you will avoid to get flagged.

Best Regards,
Nemanja



On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 8:51 AM Horea Meleg
mailto:horea.me...@telenav.com>> wrote:

Hello all,

As we informed you two weeks ago we started
working on Australia editing in Canberra, Perth
and Melbourne.

If you’re curious in what we did, you can find our
changesets using these links:

AUS

ALLhttps://osmcha.mapbox.com/filters?aoi=22638c89-517b-45b7-889a-749a6d99ffa9


AUS Flagged only

https://osmcha.mapbox.com/filters?aoi=9a2c90a1-6a45-4bb9-b52b-6f64b99e1cb5




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Re: [talk-au] Our work in last two weeks

[Nemanja Bračko]

I agree on that, but that's the way how this tool works.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 4:32 PM Marc Gemis  wrote:

> I think the QA tool should/could see that the sharp corner is in a point
> shared with another way and that there is no reason to report a warning.
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 4:26 PM Nemanja Bračko  wrote:
>
>> Because tool doesn't know is this a special (allowed) case, or user's
>> mistake. It just reports that geometry is not logical.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 4:21 PM Marc Gemis  wrote:
>>
>>> Why does a split make any difference ? Is this a "special" feature of
>>> the QA-tool you are using ?
>>> The QA tool should understand that the sharp U-turn is not the only
>>> route one can follow.
>>>
>>> m.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 10:58 AM Nemanja Bračko 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi!

 You've been flagged as "Impossible angle in highway" many times because
 of these situations:
 [image: 2019-01-21 10_52_54-Window-min.jpg]

 Just split this way (do not map it as one segment), and you will avoid
 to get flagged.

 Best Regards,
 Nemanja



 On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 8:51 AM Horea Meleg 
 wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> As we informed you two weeks ago we started working on Australia
> editing in Canberra, Perth and Melbourne.
>
> If you’re curious in what we did, you can find our changesets using
> these links:
>
> AUS ALL
> https://osmcha.mapbox.com/filters?aoi=22638c89-517b-45b7-889a-749a6d99ffa9
>
> AUS Flagged only
> https://osmcha.mapbox.com/filters?aoi=9a2c90a1-6a45-4bb9-b52b-6f64b99e1cb5
>
>
>
> If you have any questions, feel free to ask us.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Horea
>
>
> ___
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 ___
 Talk-au mailing list
 Talk-au@openstreetmap.org
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>>>
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Re: [talk-au] Our work in last two weeks

[Marc Gemis]

I think the QA tool should/could see that the sharp corner is in a point
shared with another way and that there is no reason to report a warning.


On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 4:26 PM Nemanja Bračko  wrote:

> Because tool doesn't know is this a special (allowed) case, or user's
> mistake. It just reports that geometry is not logical.
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 4:21 PM Marc Gemis  wrote:
>
>> Why does a split make any difference ? Is this a "special" feature of the
>> QA-tool you are using ?
>> The QA tool should understand that the sharp U-turn is not the only route
>> one can follow.
>>
>> m.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 10:58 AM Nemanja Bračko 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi!
>>>
>>> You've been flagged as "Impossible angle in highway" many times because
>>> of these situations:
>>> [image: 2019-01-21 10_52_54-Window-min.jpg]
>>>
>>> Just split this way (do not map it as one segment), and you will avoid
>>> to get flagged.
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Nemanja
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 8:51 AM Horea Meleg 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello all,

 As we informed you two weeks ago we started working on Australia
 editing in Canberra, Perth and Melbourne.

 If you’re curious in what we did, you can find our changesets using
 these links:

 AUS ALL
 https://osmcha.mapbox.com/filters?aoi=22638c89-517b-45b7-889a-749a6d99ffa9

 AUS Flagged only
 https://osmcha.mapbox.com/filters?aoi=9a2c90a1-6a45-4bb9-b52b-6f64b99e1cb5



 If you have any questions, feel free to ask us.



 Best regards,

 Horea


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Re: [talk-au] Our work in last two weeks

[Nemanja Bračko]

Because tool doesn't know is this a special (allowed) case, or user's
mistake. It just reports that geometry is not logical.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 4:21 PM Marc Gemis  wrote:

> Why does a split make any difference ? Is this a "special" feature of the
> QA-tool you are using ?
> The QA tool should understand that the sharp U-turn is not the only route
> one can follow.
>
> m.
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 10:58 AM Nemanja Bračko 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> You've been flagged as "Impossible angle in highway" many times because
>> of these situations:
>> [image: 2019-01-21 10_52_54-Window-min.jpg]
>>
>> Just split this way (do not map it as one segment), and you will avoid to
>> get flagged.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Nemanja
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 8:51 AM Horea Meleg 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> As we informed you two weeks ago we started working on Australia editing
>>> in Canberra, Perth and Melbourne.
>>>
>>> If you’re curious in what we did, you can find our changesets using
>>> these links:
>>>
>>> AUS ALL
>>> https://osmcha.mapbox.com/filters?aoi=22638c89-517b-45b7-889a-749a6d99ffa9
>>>
>>> AUS Flagged only
>>> https://osmcha.mapbox.com/filters?aoi=9a2c90a1-6a45-4bb9-b52b-6f64b99e1cb5
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you have any questions, feel free to ask us.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Horea
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>> ___
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>>
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Re: [talk-au] Our work in last two weeks

[Marc Gemis]

Why does a split make any difference ? Is this a "special" feature of the
QA-tool you are using ?
The QA tool should understand that the sharp U-turn is not the only route
one can follow.

m.

On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 10:58 AM Nemanja Bračko  wrote:

> Hi!
>
> You've been flagged as "Impossible angle in highway" many times because of
> these situations:
> [image: 2019-01-21 10_52_54-Window-min.jpg]
>
> Just split this way (do not map it as one segment), and you will avoid to
> get flagged.
>
> Best Regards,
> Nemanja
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 8:51 AM Horea Meleg 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> As we informed you two weeks ago we started working on Australia editing
>> in Canberra, Perth and Melbourne.
>>
>> If you’re curious in what we did, you can find our changesets using these
>> links:
>>
>> AUS ALL
>> https://osmcha.mapbox.com/filters?aoi=22638c89-517b-45b7-889a-749a6d99ffa9
>>
>> AUS Flagged only
>> https://osmcha.mapbox.com/filters?aoi=9a2c90a1-6a45-4bb9-b52b-6f64b99e1cb5
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have any questions, feel free to ask us.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Horea
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>
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Re: [talk-au] Our work in last two weeks

[Nemanja Bračko]

Hi!

You've been flagged as "Impossible angle in highway" many times because of
these situations:
[image: 2019-01-21 10_52_54-Window-min.jpg]

Just split this way (do not map it as one segment), and you will avoid to
get flagged.

Best Regards,
Nemanja



On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 8:51 AM Horea Meleg  wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> As we informed you two weeks ago we started working on Australia editing
> in Canberra, Perth and Melbourne.
>
> If you’re curious in what we did, you can find our changesets using these
> links:
>
> AUS ALL
> https://osmcha.mapbox.com/filters?aoi=22638c89-517b-45b7-889a-749a6d99ffa9
>
> AUS Flagged only
> https://osmcha.mapbox.com/filters?aoi=9a2c90a1-6a45-4bb9-b52b-6f64b99e1cb5
>
>
>
> If you have any questions, feel free to ask us.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Horea
>
>
> ___
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Re: [talk-au] Naming Bus Stops for interchanges in Sydney

[cleary]

As a regular user of public transport, I agree.


On Mon, Jan 21, 2019, at 4:39 PM, Warin wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 
> At present the names of bus stops goes something like
> 
> name=Strathfield Station, Albert Rd (Stand F).
> 
> 
> The web transport trip planers direct you to Stand F, yet this is not 
> very visiblein OSM renderings as that information is last.
> 
> 
> Would it not be best to have the name put the more detailed information 
> first and the generalproximity information last, much like an address?
> 
> Such as
> 
> name=Stand F, Albert Rd, Strathfield Station
> 
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> 
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