Re: [talk-au] highway=motorway_junction

[Andrew Harvey]

If you're using the destination sign relation
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:destination_sign, then you'd
map whatever the sign says. In this case:

type=destination_sign
destination=Nerang;Murwillumbah;Natural Bridge; Hinze Dam

If you wanted you could create two destination_sign relations one for the
green part one for the brown part so you could then add colour:back.

On Thu, 27 Feb 2020 at 12:45, Graeme Fitzpatrick 
wrote:

> While on the subject of destination signage, what do you do for signs on
> normal country roads, not motorways?
>
> EG, this one,
>
> https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.1528759,153.2674278,3a,15y,348.39h,88.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2jRvIOTPJ_raYywsPB_IcA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
>  ,
> which is on a secondary road, with a tertiary road branching off to the
> left?
>
> Pine Creek Rd to the left doesn't itself have a route number, but when you
> get to the next junction to either Nerang or Murwillumbah, that road does.
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
>
>
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Re: [talk-au] highway=motorway_junction

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

While on the subject of destination signage, what do you do for signs on
normal country roads, not motorways?

EG, this one,
https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.1528759,153.2674278,3a,15y,348.39h,88.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s2jRvIOTPJ_raYywsPB_IcA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
,
which is on a secondary road, with a tertiary road branching off to the
left?

Pine Creek Rd to the left doesn't itself have a route number, but when you
get to the next junction to either Nerang or Murwillumbah, that road does.

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] highway=motorway_junction

[Andrew Harvey]

Yes that example from Graeme is exactly it.

It could help some routers with guidance, to know where exits are even
without an exit number or ref (eg. take the 2nd exit), though this should
could always be derived from the road network anyway, it just might make it
easier for some software. Again I think it's only worth adding to exits
from grade separated roads.

On Tue, 25 Feb 2020 at 10:44, Ian Steer  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 14:33, Andrew Harvey 
> wrote:
>
> In that particular example I don't think it's needed, since it's only an
> entrance to the motorway (not an exit) and South Street probably doesn't
> need these junction tags.
>
>
>
> The tag is useful when exits are named or numbered to say there is a
> motorway exit at this point which such and such name and ref, it's
> different to destination sign.
>
>
>
> eg. if you had an exit which was number 2 but exited to a road with ref 1,
> then he destination_sign relation would be ref=1 but the
> highway=motorway_junction would have ref=2. I've never seen numbered exits
> but they exist in other countries, and maybe here too.
>
>
>
> If I've understood properly, we've got a few of them around here:
>
>
>
>
> https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.0457042,153.3543885,3a,15y,133.24h,91.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skFYA0h_lsvqsWAualmVfFQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
>
>
>
>
> https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.1011105,153.403105,3a,15y,131.46h,91.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm4vuA4WcyuCaeBf1mkamNQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
>
>
>
>
> https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.0085086,153.3437299,3a,15y,113.78h,91.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smpdDZK21i8RV9tOdn6Gl4g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
>
>
>
>
> https://www.google.com/maps/@-27.9533827,153.343662,3a,24.7y,127.87h,102.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ1cD8Na9AZrWjwcNdLAdxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
>
>
>
> So how should these be tagged?
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
>
> Yes, that is what I thought highway=motorway_junction ought to be used for
> (but not where the exit is not numbered in any way)
>
>
>
> Ian
>
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Re: [talk-au] highway=motorway_junction

[Ian Steer]

 

On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 14:33, Andrew Harvey mailto:andrew.harv...@gmail.com> > wrote:

In that particular example I don't think it's needed, since it's only an 
entrance to the motorway (not an exit) and South Street probably doesn't need 
these junction tags.

 

The tag is useful when exits are named or numbered to say there is a motorway 
exit at this point which such and such name and ref, it's different to 
destination sign.

 

eg. if you had an exit which was number 2 but exited to a road with ref 1, then 
he destination_sign relation would be ref=1 but the highway=motorway_junction 
would have ref=2. I've never seen numbered exits but they exist in other 
countries, and maybe here too.

 

If I've understood properly, we've got a few of them around here:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.0457042,153.3543885,3a,15y,133.24h,91.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skFYA0h_lsvqsWAualmVfFQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.1011105,153.403105,3a,15y,131.46h,91.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm4vuA4WcyuCaeBf1mkamNQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.0085086,153.3437299,3a,15y,113.78h,91.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smpdDZK21i8RV9tOdn6Gl4g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@-27.9533827,153.343662,3a,24.7y,127.87h,102.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ1cD8Na9AZrWjwcNdLAdxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

So how should these be tagged?

Thanks

Graeme

 

Yes, that is what I thought highway=motorway_junction ought to be used for (but 
not where the exit is not numbered in any way)

 

Ian

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Re: [talk-au] highway=motorway_junction

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 14:33, Andrew Harvey 
wrote:

> In that particular example I don't think it's needed, since it's only an
> entrance to the motorway (not an exit) and South Street probably doesn't
> need these junction tags.
>
> The tag is useful when exits are named or numbered to say there is a
> motorway exit at this point which such and such name and ref, it's
> different to destination sign.
>
> eg. if you had an exit which was number 2 but exited to a road with ref 1,
> then he destination_sign relation would be ref=1 but the
> highway=motorway_junction would have ref=2. I've never seen numbered exits
> but they exist in other countries, and maybe here too.
>

If I've understood properly, we've got a few of them around here:

https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.0457042,153.3543885,3a,15y,133.24h,91.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skFYA0h_lsvqsWAualmVfFQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.1011105,153.403105,3a,15y,131.46h,91.38t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sm4vuA4WcyuCaeBf1mkamNQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@-28.0085086,153.3437299,3a,15y,113.78h,91.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smpdDZK21i8RV9tOdn6Gl4g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@-27.9533827,153.343662,3a,24.7y,127.87h,102.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQ1cD8Na9AZrWjwcNdLAdxA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

So how should these be tagged?

Thanks

Graeme
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Re: [talk-au] highway=motorway_junction

[Andrew Harvey]

In that particular example I don't think it's needed, since it's only an
entrance to the motorway (not an exit) and South Street probably doesn't
need these junction tags.

The tag is useful when exits are named or numbered to say there is a
motorway exit at this point which such and such name and ref, it's
different to destination sign.

eg. if you had an exit which was number 2 but exited to a road with ref 1,
then he destination_sign relation would be ref=1 but the
highway=motorway_junction would have ref=2. I've never seen numbered exits
but they exist in other countries, and maybe here too.

On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 14:32, Ian Steer  wrote:

> sorry, yes – it’s lacram_telenav.
>
>
>
> The changeset that caught my eye is 67193952
>
>
>
> I just don’t understand what they’re trying to achieve.  There are
> gazillions of such intersections to be done if they head down this path.
>
>
>
> I see that it is a member of a relation called destination_sign (3286190),
> which has lots of information about the signage on this exit.  Do they need
> to have the motorway_junction tag to record these details about the signage
> ??  - and why wouldn’t they be using destination= ?
>
>
>
> Ian
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew Harvey 
> *Sent:* Monday, 24 February 2020 11:14 AM
> *To:* Ian Steer 
> *Cc:* OSM Australian Talk List 
> *Subject:* Re: [talk-au] highway=motorway_junction
>
>
>
> I don't really see the point of motorway_junction unless that exit has a
> name or number (ref), however it's still valid per the wiki as on nodes at
> which you can exit the highway, I think to avoid putting it on absolutely
> every intersection we should reserve it's use for highway=motorway or
> trunk/primary which have grade separated exits.
>
>
>
> So based on what you've said, it does sound okay, but if you could link to
> a few changesets that would help?
>
>
>
> Is that username lacram_telenav instead of lacrom_telenav? Per
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Telenav it looks like they are no
> longer working for Telenav, so if there is an issue or question we'll need
> to contact Telenav at eu-map-analy...@telenav.com for any questions.
>
>
>
> On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 13:11, Ian Steer  wrote:
>
> lacrom_telenav has been adding highway=motorway_junction tags on exits
> from major roads around Perth – I think to designate destination signs.  It
> is associated with “noref=yes”
>
>
>
> The wiki says:
>
>
>
> Use the highway <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway>
> =motorway_junction tag to identify a point along a highway
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway>=* with junction refs or
> names where it is possible to exit the highway onto another road. This is
> usually found along a highway
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway>=motorway
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway>, but is also
> applicable to other roads with numbered or named junctions including some
> highway <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway>=trunk
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dtrunk> and highway
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway>=primary
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dprimary> roads.
>
>
>
> The instances I have noticed are not on roads with named or numbered
> exits, therefore I am thinking this tag is inappropriate.  (I noticed it
> because it shows-up as an “e” on my GPS – which is a rendering issue I know)
>
>
>
> The wiki also says:
>
>
>
> name <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name>=* for the name of the
> junction or interchange. *Do not confuse the name of a junction with
> the destination(s) the junction leads to.* In most cases worldwide, sign
> information describes destinations, not the name of the junction or
> interchange itself. If a signpost or indication displays destinations
> exclusively, this data belongs to destination
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination>=* tags, *not* the
> name <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name>=* of the highway
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway>=motorway_junction node.
>
>
>
> I tried messaging this user a week-or-so ago and have had no response.
>
>
>
> What do people think about this tag?  I don’t know what he is trying to
> achieve.
>
>
>
> Ian
>
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Re: [talk-au] highway=motorway_junction

[Ian Steer]

sorry, yes – it’s lacram_telenav.

 

The changeset that caught my eye is 67193952

 

I just don’t understand what they’re trying to achieve.  There are gazillions 
of such intersections to be done if they head down this path.

 

I see that it is a member of a relation called destination_sign (3286190), 
which has lots of information about the signage on this exit.  Do they need to 
have the motorway_junction tag to record these details about the signage ??  - 
and why wouldn’t they be using destination= ?

 

Ian

 

 

From: Andrew Harvey  
Sent: Monday, 24 February 2020 11:14 AM
To: Ian Steer 
Cc: OSM Australian Talk List 
Subject: Re: [talk-au] highway=motorway_junction

 

I don't really see the point of motorway_junction unless that exit has a name 
or number (ref), however it's still valid per the wiki as on nodes at which you 
can exit the highway, I think to avoid putting it on absolutely every 
intersection we should reserve it's use for highway=motorway or trunk/primary 
which have grade separated exits.

 

So based on what you've said, it does sound okay, but if you could link to a 
few changesets that would help?

 

Is that username lacram_telenav instead of lacrom_telenav? Per 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Telenav it looks like they are no longer 
working for Telenav, so if there is an issue or question we'll need to contact 
Telenav at eu-map-analy...@telenav.com <mailto:eu-map-analy...@telenav.com>  
for any questions.

 

On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 13:11, Ian Steer mailto:ianst...@iinet.net.au> > wrote:

lacrom_telenav has been adding highway=motorway_junction tags on exits from 
major roads around Perth – I think to designate destination signs.  It is 
associated with “noref=yes”

 

The wiki says:

 

Use the  <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway> 
highway=motorway_junction tag to identify a point along a  
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway> highway=* with junction refs 
or names where it is possible to exit the highway onto another road. This is 
usually found along a  <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway> 
highway= <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway> motorway, 
but is also applicable to other roads with numbered or named junctions 
including some  <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway> highway= 
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dtrunk> trunk and  
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway> highway= 
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dprimary> primary roads.

 

The instances I have noticed are not on roads with named or numbered exits, 
therefore I am thinking this tag is inappropriate.  (I noticed it because it 
shows-up as an “e” on my GPS – which is a rendering issue I know)

 

The wiki also says:

 

 <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name> name=* for the name of the 
junction or interchange. Do not confuse the name of a junction with the 
destination(s) the junction leads to. In most cases worldwide, sign information 
describes destinations, not the name of the junction or interchange itself. If 
a signpost or indication displays destinations exclusively, this data belongs 
to  <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination> destination=* tags, 
not the  <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name> name=* of the  
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway> highway=motorway_junction 
node.

 

I tried messaging this user a week-or-so ago and have had no response.

 

What do people think about this tag?  I don’t know what he is trying to achieve.

 

Ian

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Re: [talk-au] highway=motorway_junction

[Andrew Harvey]

I don't really see the point of motorway_junction unless that exit has a
name or number (ref), however it's still valid per the wiki as on nodes at
which you can exit the highway, I think to avoid putting it on absolutely
every intersection we should reserve it's use for highway=motorway or
trunk/primary which have grade separated exits.

So based on what you've said, it does sound okay, but if you could link to
a few changesets that would help?

Is that username lacram_telenav instead of lacrom_telenav? Per
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Telenav it looks like they are no
longer working for Telenav, so if there is an issue or question we'll need
to contact Telenav at eu-map-analy...@telenav.com for any questions.

On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 at 13:11, Ian Steer  wrote:

> lacrom_telenav has been adding highway=motorway_junction tags on exits
> from major roads around Perth – I think to designate destination signs.  It
> is associated with “noref=yes”
>
>
>
> The wiki says:
>
>
>
> Use the highway 
> =motorway_junction tag to identify a point along a highway
> =* with junction refs or
> names where it is possible to exit the highway onto another road. This is
> usually found along a highway
> =motorway
> , but is also
> applicable to other roads with numbered or named junctions including some
> highway =trunk
>  and highway
> =primary
>  roads.
>
>
>
> The instances I have noticed are not on roads with named or numbered
> exits, therefore I am thinking this tag is inappropriate.  (I noticed it
> because it shows-up as an “e” on my GPS – which is a rendering issue I know)
>
>
>
> The wiki also says:
>
>
>
> name =* for the name of the
> junction or interchange. *Do not confuse the name of a junction with
> the destination(s) the junction leads to.* In most cases worldwide, sign
> information describes destinations, not the name of the junction or
> interchange itself. If a signpost or indication displays destinations
> exclusively, this data belongs to destination
> =* tags, *not* the
> name =* of the highway
> =motorway_junction node.
>
>
>
> I tried messaging this user a week-or-so ago and have had no response.
>
>
>
> What do people think about this tag?  I don’t know what he is trying to
> achieve.
>
>
>
> Ian
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Re: [talk-au] highway=motorway_junction

[Ben Kelley]

Hi.

It seems pretty clear (to me at least) on the highway=motorway_junction 
page that the junction node should not indicate the destination, but 
rather on the way branching off. The examples show this situation.


 - Ben.

On 24/2/20 13:09, Ian Steer wrote:


What do people think about this tag?  I don’t know what he is trying 
to achieve.





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[talk-au] highway=motorway_junction

[Ian Steer]

lacrom_telenav has been adding highway=motorway_junction tags on exits from
major roads around Perth - I think to designate destination signs.  It is
associated with "noref=yes"

 

The wiki says:

 

Use the  
highway=motorway_junction tag to identify a point along a
 highway=* with junction
refs or names where it is possible to exit the highway onto another road.
This is usually found along a
 highway=
 motorway, but
is also applicable to other roads with numbered or named junctions including
some   highway=
 trunk and
 highway=
 primary roads.

 

The instances I have noticed are not on roads with named or numbered exits,
therefore I am thinking this tag is inappropriate.  (I noticed it because it
shows-up as an "e" on my GPS - which is a rendering issue I know)

 

The wiki also says:

 

  name=* for the name of the
junction or interchange. Do not confuse the name of a junction with the
destination(s) the junction leads to. In most cases worldwide, sign
information describes destinations, not the name of the junction or
interchange itself. If a signpost or indication displays destinations
exclusively, this data belongs to
 destination=* tags,
not the   name=* of the
 highway=motorway_junction
node.

 

I tried messaging this user a week-or-so ago and have had no response.

 

What do people think about this tag?  I don't know what he is trying to
achieve.

 

Ian

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