Re: [Talk-ca] Hydro Network (inland water) question
Thank you for the explanation. All of the areas I'm referring to are very remote, I agree. I'm glad to finally know some of the backstory to this long and arduous process. I'd like to thank all of the mappers here who put their time and effort into improving OSM, especially in Canada. Your efforts do not go unappreciated! Thanks again, Peter On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 7:42 PM john whelan wrote: > If you're Canadian then you are probably aware that the NRCAN Geobase data > is collected from various sources including provincial some are more > accurate than others some data is probably thirty or more years old. > Canada is very large and we have a lot of water. We don't have the same > number of mappers per square kilometre as say the UK or Germany. > > NRCAN used to produce tiles that were easy to import but its been some > years now since they did this. Also the tiles were quite small compared to > some lakes. There were some government cut backs I believe didn't help > matters. > > Throw in flack from Germany when the imported data in the map was compared > to satellite imagery and you get the state we are in today. Strangely > enough the change of OSM license also had an impact we lost one or two > mappers over that and it was a distraction at the time. > > Anything else, well the Canadian Import team as far as I know does not > exist. We have individuals who map but no magic team. > > Besides bus stops are more fun to map. > > Cheerio John > > On 27 September 2018 at 13:09, Peter R wrote: > >> Hi Canada Import Team, >> I'd like to ask a question that I've been curious about for a few years >> now. What happened during the import of inland water data? Throughout >> Canada, I find instances where tiles are missing water data. This results >> in lakes and other water polygons being abruptly cut off. Some examples: >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/55.4821/-65.2981 and >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/54.8027/-97.5913 >> >> I've also found an instance of rogue ocean tiles at zoom 10 and greater >> if you switch the map layer to Transport Map: >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=10/56.3267/-99.3107=T >> >> I see that importing the Geobase National Hydro Network is still in the >> planning phase according to >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Geobase/NHN_-_OSM_Map_Feature >> >> I'm just curious as to why water data throughout Canada is very hit or >> miss. I guess I've answered my own question with "it's still in progress" >> but I'm curious nonetheless. I did check the message archives going a year >> back and didn't see anything regarding inland water data. >> >> Cheers, >> Peter >> >> ___ >> Talk-ca mailing list >> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca >> >> > ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Hydro Network (inland water) question
The federal government's open data license has been formally approved by the legal working group. Steve in California appears to be volunteering to do some mapping. I have no doubt the flack from Europe will start up again but it is an ongoing import that the Canadian local community has been doing for some years and as John said is still progressing. It's just as James says there are the odd million lakes that change shape from time to time and without Steve's assistance we haven't been progressing as fast as we might have. In fact to be honest the Geobase data is so far out of date we might be better off without it. Quebec mappers certainly are into importing bus stops at the moment. I know the Ottawa mappers have done a very nice job in Ottawa with importing bus stops. I vote we send Steve out with a GPS device and a canoe and he can do some tracks round the shorelines then bring them into the map. Cheerio John On 27 September 2018 at 20:10, Andrew wrote: > Does any body know what the current status / feeling is about doing > Canvec Imports? > > I had received less then favorable feed back last time I was > doing imports? (From across the pond mostly) > > Andrew > aka Canvec Imports > > > On Thu, 2018-09-27 at 16:55 -0700, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote: > > Heck, all kinds of things are fun to map: bike routes, railways, > > making sure provincial and TransCanada route relations are all lined > > up and tagged correctly, bus and public_transport, small details > > (micro-mapping), like gymnasium/library details and drinking fountain > > locations in elementary/middle/high schools, it's almost endless. > > > > Now, all the bodies of water in Canada, the 2nd largest geographic > > country on Earth, and with "hundreds" (you can grow it to thousands, > > I know you can) of dedicated mappers: wow, that is something I'd > > call "you've got your work cut out for you!" > > > > I mean that to be encouraging rather than discouraging. OSM, it > > seems (and I've been at it most of its life) is a longer-term > > project, it's really only starting to fly after fifteen years or > > so. Give it a few more decades (really), and even in a few years, it > > does, can and will get better. It takes time, it takes dedication, > > it takes good communication, it takes people working well > > together. Largely speaking (and Canada isn't large, it's HUGE!), so > > far, so good. > > > > Encouragingly, > > SteveA > > California > > > > > On Sep 27, 2018, at 4:42 PM, john whelan > > > wrote: > > > Besides bus stops are more fun to map. > > > > > > ___ > > Talk-ca mailing list > > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > > > ___ > Talk-ca mailing list > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Hydro Network (inland water) question
On 2018-09-27 05:42 PM, talk-ca-requ...@openstreetmap.org wrote: What happened during the import of inland water data? Maybe people realized the poor quality of the data, and found positive ways to contribute instead? Throw in flack from Germany ...and Canada! Waterways change in thirty years; ask anyone in Calgary doing recreation nearby; the 2013 flood changed many things. Satellite imagery covers the new reality. CanVec/GeoBase do not. And landcover can change dramatically in such time. As to great vast areas of white on the map, I'd rather see those remain blank, rather than filled with garbage data. When I'm standing on the ground trying to cross a river, sometimes I swear at CanVec. And yes, I have put in many many hours adding natural-feature detail from satellite, the hard way, trying to stay ahead of the CanVec imports, which I consider disastrous. I figure, if there's already data in place, hopefully nobody will wipe it out with an import (again). So please, nobody pretend there's consensus here that CanVec/GeoBase imports are a good thing. That's my two bits, now sorry, I have to leave the internet for a few days. I'm going out to play in the woods, where hand-edited OSM will help me immensely. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Hydro Network (inland water) question
Does any body know what the current status / feeling is about doing Canvec Imports? I had received less then favorable feed back last time I was doing imports? (From across the pond mostly) Andrew aka Canvec Imports On Thu, 2018-09-27 at 16:55 -0700, OSM Volunteer stevea wrote: > Heck, all kinds of things are fun to map: bike routes, railways, > making sure provincial and TransCanada route relations are all lined > up and tagged correctly, bus and public_transport, small details > (micro-mapping), like gymnasium/library details and drinking fountain > locations in elementary/middle/high schools, it's almost endless. > > Now, all the bodies of water in Canada, the 2nd largest geographic > country on Earth, and with "hundreds" (you can grow it to thousands, > I know you can) of dedicated mappers: wow, that is something I'd > call "you've got your work cut out for you!" > > I mean that to be encouraging rather than discouraging. OSM, it > seems (and I've been at it most of its life) is a longer-term > project, it's really only starting to fly after fifteen years or > so. Give it a few more decades (really), and even in a few years, it > does, can and will get better. It takes time, it takes dedication, > it takes good communication, it takes people working well > together. Largely speaking (and Canada isn't large, it's HUGE!), so > far, so good. > > Encouragingly, > SteveA > California > > > On Sep 27, 2018, at 4:42 PM, john whelan > > wrote: > > Besides bus stops are more fun to map. > > > ___ > Talk-ca mailing list > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Hydro Network (inland water) question
Heck, all kinds of things are fun to map: bike routes, railways, making sure provincial and TransCanada route relations are all lined up and tagged correctly, bus and public_transport, small details (micro-mapping), like gymnasium/library details and drinking fountain locations in elementary/middle/high schools, it's almost endless. Now, all the bodies of water in Canada, the 2nd largest geographic country on Earth, and with "hundreds" (you can grow it to thousands, I know you can) of dedicated mappers: wow, that is something I'd call "you've got your work cut out for you!" I mean that to be encouraging rather than discouraging. OSM, it seems (and I've been at it most of its life) is a longer-term project, it's really only starting to fly after fifteen years or so. Give it a few more decades (really), and even in a few years, it does, can and will get better. It takes time, it takes dedication, it takes good communication, it takes people working well together. Largely speaking (and Canada isn't large, it's HUGE!), so far, so good. Encouragingly, SteveA California > On Sep 27, 2018, at 4:42 PM, john whelan wrote: > Besides bus stops are more fun to map. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Hydro Network (inland water) question
+1 James I try to add a few hundred square kms every week. But as James said Canada is really big. John On Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 19:39 James, wrote: > because we have over 2 million lakes and rivers and we are a couple > hundred dedicated mappers that have the skill set to fix and import Canvec > dataand not everyone prioritizes lakes and rivers in remote areas. > > On Thu., Sep. 27, 2018, 7:26 p.m. Peter R, > wrote: > >> Hi Canada Import Team, >> I'd like to ask a question that I've been curious about for a few years >> now. What happened during the import of inland water data? Throughout >> Canada, I find instances where tiles are missing water data. This results >> in lakes and other water polygons being abruptly cut off. Some examples: >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/55.4821/-65.2981 and >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/54.8027/-97.5913 >> >> I've also found an instance of rogue ocean tiles at zoom 10 and greater >> if you switch the map layer to Transport Map: >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=10/56.3267/-99.3107=T >> >> I see that importing the Geobase National Hydro Network is still in the >> planning phase according to >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Geobase/NHN_-_OSM_Map_Feature >> >> I'm just curious as to why water data throughout Canada is very hit or >> miss. I guess I've answered my own question with "it's still in progress" >> but I'm curious nonetheless. I did check the message archives going a year >> back and didn't see anything regarding inland water data. >> >> Cheers, >> Peter >> ___ >> Talk-ca mailing list >> Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca >> > ___ > Talk-ca mailing list > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Hydro Network (inland water) question
If you're Canadian then you are probably aware that the NRCAN Geobase data is collected from various sources including provincial some are more accurate than others some data is probably thirty or more years old. Canada is very large and we have a lot of water. We don't have the same number of mappers per square kilometre as say the UK or Germany. NRCAN used to produce tiles that were easy to import but its been some years now since they did this. Also the tiles were quite small compared to some lakes. There were some government cut backs I believe didn't help matters. Throw in flack from Germany when the imported data in the map was compared to satellite imagery and you get the state we are in today. Strangely enough the change of OSM license also had an impact we lost one or two mappers over that and it was a distraction at the time. Anything else, well the Canadian Import team as far as I know does not exist. We have individuals who map but no magic team. Besides bus stops are more fun to map. Cheerio John On 27 September 2018 at 13:09, Peter R wrote: > Hi Canada Import Team, > I'd like to ask a question that I've been curious about for a few years > now. What happened during the import of inland water data? Throughout > Canada, I find instances where tiles are missing water data. This results > in lakes and other water polygons being abruptly cut off. Some examples: > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/55.4821/-65.2981 and > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/54.8027/-97.5913 > > I've also found an instance of rogue ocean tiles at zoom 10 and greater if > you switch the map layer to Transport Map: https://www. > openstreetmap.org/#map=10/56.3267/-99.3107=T > > I see that importing the Geobase National Hydro Network is still in the > planning phase according to https://wiki.openstreetmap. > org/wiki/Geobase/NHN_-_OSM_Map_Feature > > I'm just curious as to why water data throughout Canada is very hit or > miss. I guess I've answered my own question with "it's still in progress" > but I'm curious nonetheless. I did check the message archives going a year > back and didn't see anything regarding inland water data. > > Cheers, > Peter > > ___ > Talk-ca mailing list > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > > ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Hydro Network (inland water) question
because we have over 2 million lakes and rivers and we are a couple hundred dedicated mappers that have the skill set to fix and import Canvec dataand not everyone prioritizes lakes and rivers in remote areas. On Thu., Sep. 27, 2018, 7:26 p.m. Peter R, wrote: > Hi Canada Import Team, > I'd like to ask a question that I've been curious about for a few years > now. What happened during the import of inland water data? Throughout > Canada, I find instances where tiles are missing water data. This results > in lakes and other water polygons being abruptly cut off. Some examples: > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/55.4821/-65.2981 and > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/54.8027/-97.5913 > > I've also found an instance of rogue ocean tiles at zoom 10 and greater if > you switch the map layer to Transport Map: > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=10/56.3267/-99.3107=T > > I see that importing the Geobase National Hydro Network is still in the > planning phase according to > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Geobase/NHN_-_OSM_Map_Feature > > I'm just curious as to why water data throughout Canada is very hit or > miss. I guess I've answered my own question with "it's still in progress" > but I'm curious nonetheless. I did check the message archives going a year > back and didn't see anything regarding inland water data. > > Cheers, > Peter > ___ > Talk-ca mailing list > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
[Talk-ca] Hydro Network (inland water) question
Hi Canada Import Team, I'd like to ask a question that I've been curious about for a few years now. What happened during the import of inland water data? Throughout Canada, I find instances where tiles are missing water data. This results in lakes and other water polygons being abruptly cut off. Some examples: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/55.4821/-65.2981 and https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=9/54.8027/-97.5913 I've also found an instance of rogue ocean tiles at zoom 10 and greater if you switch the map layer to Transport Map: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=10/56.3267/-99.3107=T I see that importing the Geobase National Hydro Network is still in the planning phase according to https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Geobase/NHN_-_OSM_Map_Feature I'm just curious as to why water data throughout Canada is very hit or miss. I guess I've answered my own question with "it's still in progress" but I'm curious nonetheless. I did check the message archives going a year back and didn't see anything regarding inland water data. Cheers, Peter ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
