Re: [Talk-transit] Line diagrams

2010-08-30 Per discussione Michał Borsuk
On 30 August 2010 18:34, Steffen dido_...@web.de wrot [3] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/13639 Why are the bus stops in the relation above separately mapped as a node (IMHO correct), and yet again as a platform? -- Best regards, mit freundlichen Grüssen, meilleurs sentiments,

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione Francis Davey
On 29 August 2010 23:41, Eric Jarvies e...@csl.com.mx wrote: Eric Jarvies Sent from my iPad On Aug 29, 2010, at 3:10 AM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: unless the work is copyrighted or copylefted as well. What right does Y have to the data to begin

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Licence Implementation plan - declines or non-responses

2010-08-30 Per discussione Eugene Alvin Villar
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 1:27 PM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 2:03 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote: ...why should the onus of forking be on the license-change agreers? If this is indeed the case, then the ones

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione jh
Am 29.08.2010 17:52, schrieb Rob Myers: The longest running free software and free culture projects have had to change their licences to reflect the changing environment in which they exist. OSM will be no different. Some of the longest running and most successful free software projects did

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Simon Ward
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 07:24:25AM +0200, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 12:05 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Someone in Germany might contribute data under CC-By-SA and be bound by it, and someone in the US might extract that data as quasi-PD

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione Rob Myers
On 08/30/2010 09:21 AM, jh wrote: Some of the longest running and most successful free software projects did not substantially *) change their license. Ever. And are doing just fine. *) apart from subtle upgrades like GPL vX to GPL v(X+1) Some people think that GPL upgrades aren't subtle,

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 August 2010 20:03, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: The majority ( 50%) of GPL projects are now GPL 3. Which is hardly an argument against allowing relicencing. There is a little bit of a difference between changing versions that are merely an extension of the existing license, than

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Rob Myers
On 08/30/2010 01:21 AM, John Smith wrote: You are still making the assumption that copyright isn't valid at all, to the best of my knowledge there has been no court case about map data. You are still assuming that copyright is universally valid despite court cases that demonstrate that it

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 August 2010 20:12, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: No, this is about caring about the stated aims of the project rather than fetishising a licence that is not even recommended for use on data by its own authors. I care less about the license than the data, and the only way to ensure

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione jh
Am 30.08.2010 12:03, schrieb Rob Myers: On 08/30/2010 09:21 AM, jh wrote: Some of the longest running and most successful free software projects did not substantially *) change their license. Ever. And are doing just fine. *) apart from subtle upgrades like GPL vX to GPL v(X+1) Some

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione Rob Myers
On 08/30/2010 11:06 AM, John Smith wrote: On 30 August 2010 20:03, Rob Myersr...@robmyers.org wrote: The majority ( 50%) of GPL projects are now GPL 3. Which is hardly an argument against allowing relicencing. There is a little bit of a difference between changing versions that are merely

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Liz
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010, Rob Myers wrote: If OSM ends up asking governments to reduce people's freedom to use map data in order to restore that freedom, do you really think that would be a good idea? This is a new concept on the list, that OSM starts negotiations with governments over licensing

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 August 2010 20:22, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: The part of my email that you didn't quote mentions that to some people, GPL 3 was seen as a major change. No where near as major as switching from GPL to BSD, you can try and spin it anyway you like, GPL2 to GPL3 was evolution, not

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione Rob Myers
On 08/30/2010 11:28 AM, John Smith wrote: On 30 August 2010 20:22, Rob Myersr...@robmyers.org wrote: The part of my email that you didn't quote mentions that to some people, GPL 3 was seen as a major change. No where near as major as switching from GPL to BSD, you can try and spin it anyway

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione Rob Myers
On 08/30/2010 11:44 AM, John Smith wrote: On 30 August 2010 20:40, Rob Myersr...@robmyers.org wrote: I would never claim that switching from the GPL to BSD was minor. Or, in the majority of cases, wise. But I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. You are trying to claim that open

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 August 2010 20:59, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: That isn't a valid comparison. The ODbL is not a BSD-style licence. *If* we were simply being asked about a change of license you'd have a valid argument, but we're not, the CTs are very open ended with a very low barrier for change to

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Dirk-Lüder Kreie
Am 30.08.2010 12:16, schrieb John Smith: On 30 August 2010 20:12, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: No, this is about caring about the stated aims of the project rather than fetishising a licence that is not even recommended for use on data by its own authors. I care less about the license

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione John Smith
2010/8/30 Dirk-Lüder Kreie osm-l...@deelkar.net: data will not be available under ODbL temporarily. I'm very sure it will be re-mapped, probably within less than a year. I disagree, especially without access to some of the existing data sources, and so far no one is offering to come to

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Licence Implementation plan - declines or non-responses

2010-08-30 Per discussione James Livingston
On 30/08/2010, at 10:03 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: If the majority of the community (including OSMF and the sysads who run the servers) agrees with the license change, why should the onus of forking be on the license-change agreers? If this is indeed the case, then the ones who should

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione James Livingston
On 30/08/2010, at 3:04 PM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Perfect. So the new license is being shown as possibly non effective against such an attack. I've asked about this case before on the list, and gotten no real response about it. Consider for example if someone in the US[0]

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione James Livingston
On 30/08/2010, at 3:24 PM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: I think that was already sorted out under the issue of wikipedia point importing, the OSM data is under the jurisdiction of England and has to obey english copyright law. no? No, people are bound by the copyright law where they

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] To calm some waters - about Section 3

2010-08-30 Per discussione James Livingston
On 27/08/2010, at 1:36 AM, Anthony wrote: Or you could just assign the task of deciding what it means to someone. Whether or not a future license is share alike shall be determined by a vote of the OSMF board. Sure, except I don't know that will really help. If people want certainty that all

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione Rob Myers
On 08/30/2010 12:09 PM, John Smith wrote: On 30 August 2010 20:59, Rob Myersr...@robmyers.org wrote: That isn't a valid comparison. The ODbL is not a BSD-style licence. *If* we were simply being asked about a change of license you'd have a valid argument, but we're not, the CTs are very open

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione Rob Myers
On 08/30/2010 01:09 PM, James Livingston wrote: On 30/08/2010, at 3:21 AM, Rob Myers wrote: It's basically the same as copyright assignment. Which can work well for projects of non-profit foundations. It can yes, however there are a lot of developers who refuse to work on projects that

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2010/8/29 jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com: On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 1:39 AM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: I haven't made a statement about the Kosovo information. I'm sure that whoever has imported it has made sure it would be compatible with future

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione Liz
On Tue, 31 Aug 2010, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: actually I feel that you treated this issue a little negligent. The import guidelines stated since 5 March 2008 (quote): At the time of writing (spring 2008), well spring isn't in March (here) spring starts shortly so whoever wrote that was a

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2010/8/31 Liz ed...@billiau.net: On Tue, 31 Aug 2010, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: actually I feel that you treated this issue a little negligent. The import guidelines stated since 5 March 2008 (quote): At the time of writing (spring 2008), well spring isn't in March (here) spring starts

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Licence Implementation plan - declines or non-responses

2010-08-30 Per discussione Anthony
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: How does one decliner-changeset in the middle of a chain of accepter-changestes effect the future data if the decliner made one position change, and subsequent editors made further position changes? I'd say usually it

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Licence Implementation plan - declines or non-responses

2010-08-30 Per discussione Anthony
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: First go through all the nodes:  If a node was positioned in a particular place by an accepter, keep it, otherwise revert it to the last accepter-positioned location.  If no accepter positioned it anywhere in the history, delete

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Licence Implementation plan - declines or non-responses

2010-08-30 Per discussione Liz
On Tue, 31 Aug 2010, Anthony wrote: On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: First go through all the nodes: If a node was positioned in a particular place by an accepter, keep it, otherwise revert it to the last accepter-positioned location. If no accepter

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Licence Implementation plan - declines or non-responses

2010-08-30 Per discussione Anthony
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:43 PM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Tue, 31 Aug 2010, Anthony wrote: On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:22 PM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: First go through all the nodes:  If a node was positioned in a particular place by an accepter, keep it, otherwise revert it to

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Licence Implementation plan - declines or non-responses

2010-08-30 Per discussione andrzej zaborowski
On 31 August 2010 04:22, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Then go through the tags.  Start from the creation of the element.  If a tag was added by an accepter, keep it.  If a tag created by an accepter was modified by an accepter, make the modification. What's the identity of the tag though, is

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Licence Implementation plan - declines or non-responses

2010-08-30 Per discussione Anthony
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:48 PM, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com wrote: On 31 August 2010 04:22, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Then go through the tags.  Start from the creation of the element.  If a tag was added by an accepter, keep it.  If a tag created by an accepter was modified by

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Anthony
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 6:05 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: With a leaky license like the CC-By-SA, the project as a whole gets the worst of both worlds, PD and share-alike. And with ODbL, they get the worst of three worlds, PD, share-alike, and EULA hell.

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Anthony
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 6:12 AM, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: On 08/30/2010 01:21 AM, John Smith wrote: You are still making the assumption that copyright isn't valid at all, to the best of my knowledge there has been no court case about map data. You are still assuming that copyright

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Jane Smith
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 4:36 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 6:12 AM, Rob Myers r...@robmyers.org wrote: On 08/30/2010 01:21 AM, John Smith wrote: You are still making the assumption that copyright isn't valid at all, to the best of my knowledge there has been

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 1:40 AM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: On Tue, 31 Aug 2010, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: actually I feel that you treated this issue a little negligent. The import guidelines stated since 5 March 2008 (quote): At the time of writing (spring 2008), For me, I heard about

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 2:04 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/8/31 Liz ed...@billiau.net: On Tue, 31 Aug 2010, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote: actually I feel that you treated this issue a little negligent. The import guidelines stated since 5 March 2008 (quote): At the

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Anthony
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 8:21 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: You also seem to care more about legal technicalities than the spirit of the license, maybe some other map company could come in and take the data and just use it, but then it becomes much harder for them to in turn

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Anthony
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Jane Smith janesmith...@gmail.com wrote: copyright are the chains of the modern worker, holding to the means of Production. Are there any moderators here? Can we get this troll banned please. ___ legal-talk mailing

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com
I second that. Jane Smith janesmith...@gmail.com this is a fake account, just causing problems. On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 6:51 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Jane Smith janesmith...@gmail.com wrote: copyright are the chains of the modern worker, holding to

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 6:49 AM, Anthony o...@inbox.org wrote: Maybe we shouldn't abandon the relicensing effort, but start a new relicensing effort, focussed on fixing the problems with CC-BY-SA without adding on a dozen other special interest fixes like Produced Works and Contributor Terms

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Jane Smith
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 4:55 AM, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: I second that. Jane Smith janesmith...@gmail.com this is a fake account, just causing problems. I use fake account yes, like Anthony and John Smith and 80n. Fake fake fake. We have to

Re: [OSM-talk] [OSM-dev] Beautiful maps for a travel blog reviews site

2010-08-30 Per discussione jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 4:12 AM, Joe Richards geojoeli...@gmail.com wrote: Unique colours/look and feel - we already have that, but perhaps it's time to give up our own map rendering engine and look at Mapnik etc.  We can create a tile server, although obviously avoiding so would be desirable

[OSM-talk] Notifications for objects touched by a given user

2010-08-30 Per discussione Andrew Harvey
Does anyone know if there is an easy way for a user (A) to receive notifications (either by email or by some API query (RSS or Atom results best, but any XML format would do)) for objects that have been changed that the user (A) has at one point touched?

Re: [OSM-talk] Notifications for objects touched by a given user

2010-08-30 Per discussione andrzej zaborowski
On 30 August 2010 08:59, Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: Does anyone know if there is an easy way for a user (A) to receive notifications (either by email or by some API query (RSS or Atom results best, but any XML format would do)) for objects that have been changed that the

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione Albertas Agejevas
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 01:12:16AM +0200, jamesmikedup...@googlemail.com wrote: Really, I am not worried about data integration, but getting data. It does not bother me that other people cannot just take my work and use it under a different license. My purpose in creating a map is just that,

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Morten Kjeldgaard
On 29/08/2010, at 19.35, Russ Nelson wrote: I've re-thought this, and I think that the proper course of action, which will do the least damage to the community, is to stay with CC-By-SA. First, because all the data in OSM is already licensed under that license. Second, because it will do

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 17:35, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote: However, I have spoken with Steve Coast, founder of the project, and I know that he is dead-set against public domain OSM data.  Thus, the second best thing to do, if you're going to threaten to sue infringers, is a license

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
To me, the primary benefit of a free license is that the project has a 'life of its own' beyond the host: if the host decides to stop hosting it, or letting people edit, someone else can continue it as it had been. I don't care about the viral effects of such a license except insofar as they

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Chris Browet
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:13, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: To me, the primary benefit of a free license is that the project has a 'life of its own' beyond the host: if the host decides to stop hosting it, or letting people edit, someone else can continue it as it had been. I

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 August 2010 19:36, Chris Browet c...@semperpax.com wrote: - with CC-BY-SA, you'd have to ask every contributor the permission to fork their data (or is only attribution needed? To whom then? The individual contributors?) Only if you wanted to change licenses, which is why OSM-F is asking

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Simon Ward
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:36:03AM +0200, Chris Browet wrote: As far as I understand the licenses, nobody is permitted to fork the OSM data without permissions, and it is thus not truly open: - with CC-BY-SA, you'd have to ask every contributor the permission to fork their data (or is only

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
Chris Browet wrote: As far as I understand the licenses, nobody is permitted to fork the OSM data without permissions, and it is thus not truly open: cc-by-sa (and almost? every viral license) allows for forking as long as said fork is under the same license. Note the number of Wikipedia

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Chris Browet
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 12:02, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: Chris Browet wrote: As far as I understand the licenses, nobody is permitted to fork the OSM data without permissions, and it is thus not truly open: cc-by-sa (and almost? every viral license) allows for forking

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
Chris Browet wrote: cc-by-sa (and almost? every viral license) allows for forking as long as said fork is under the same license. Note the number of Wikipedia forks and mirrors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mirrors_and_forks Ok, thanks. And it would still be possible under

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Steve Bennett
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: cc-by-sa (and almost? every viral license) allows for forking as long as said fork is under the same license. Note the number of Wikipedia forks and mirrors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mirrors_and_forks

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 7:04 AM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: cc-by-sa (and almost? every viral license) allows for forking as long as said fork is under the same license. Note the number of Wikipedia forks

[OSM-talk] timed access restrictions and Mapnik

2010-08-30 Per discussione Martijn van Exel
Hi all, We recently had a bridge temporarily removed for the SAIL 2010 event in Amsterdam[1]. I tagged it access=no with date_on and date_off time restriction tags as suggested on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access, hoping it would be picked up by Mapnik as well. It turns out it is not

Re: [OSM-talk] timed access restrictions and Mapnik

2010-08-30 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 August 2010 21:52, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: We recently had a bridge temporarily removed for the SAIL 2010 event in Amsterdam[1]. I tagged it access=no with date_on and date_off time restriction tags as suggested on http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access, hoping it

Re: [OSM-talk] timed access restrictions and Mapnik

2010-08-30 Per discussione Martijn van Exel
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 1:59 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 30 August 2010 21:52, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: We recently had a bridge temporarily removed for the SAIL 2010 event in Amsterdam[1]. I tagged it access=no with date_on and date_off time restriction

Re: [OSM-talk] timed access restrictions and Mapnik

2010-08-30 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 August 2010 22:06, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: While you can't take browser caching into account, in my experience the main tile server manages to keep tiles updated fairly well these days - good enough for one-off (non-repeating) access restrictions with a day resolution to

Re: [OSM-talk] Duplicate nodes generally

2010-08-30 Per discussione Brendan Morley
On a similar topic... What is the problem with duplicate nodes, exactly? Thanks, Brendan On 30/08/2010 12:05 AM, Nakor wrote: Please do not run automatic merge tools in the US. Doing this you will connect entities that should not (e.g. river with road). This is due to the source of the

Re: [OSM-talk] Duplicate nodes generally

2010-08-30 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
Brendan Morley-3 wrote: On a similar topic... What is the problem with duplicate nodes, exactly? In general, there's no problem. However many specific cases of duplicate nodes are problematic, for example when roads should be connected at a node, but instead each ends at a different

Re: [OSM-talk] Duplicate nodes generally

2010-08-30 Per discussione Mike N.
What is the problem with duplicate nodes, exactly? The only time they are an actual problem is when the map data does not represent reality - when a roads cross in a physical intersection, but in OSM only have 2 nodes at the same location instead of a shared node, or a closed polygon in

Re: [OSM-talk] Duplicate nodes generally

2010-08-30 Per discussione Nic Roets
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 2:10 PM, Brendan Morley morb@beagle.com.auwrote: On a similar topic... What is the problem with duplicate nodes, exactly? They are created when you import data from a source that does not use our way-node model, esp. when the import is done in stages, e.g. at the

Re: [OSM-talk] timed access restrictions and Mapnik

2010-08-30 Per discussione Martijn van Exel
When was this discussed? I do scan dev but missed this - again, in my experience, tile updating is quite snappy. Martijn martijn van exel +++ m...@rtijn.org laziness - impatience - hubris http://schaaltreinen.nl/ twitter / skype: mvexel flickr: rhodes On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 2:08 PM, John

Re: [OSM-talk] timed access restrictions and Mapnik

2010-08-30 Per discussione John Smith
On 30 August 2010 22:36, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: When was this discussed? I do scan dev but missed this - again, in my experience, tile updating is quite snappy. Sorry, my original post was to dev, the second thread was on the talk list:

Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Scheme Recommendations: highway=path, footway, trail?

2010-08-30 Per discussione Steve Bennett
On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 2:40 AM, Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com wrote: Then mark the reasons it's not suitable. We have this same discussion with cycling (in fact, Peter Miller had an entire presentation on this issue at SOTM09 - he just suggested the wrong solution :-) ). One persons

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] [OSM-talk] ODbL vs CC-by-SA pros and cons

2010-08-30 Per discussione Eugene Alvin Villar
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 3:29 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: On 30 August 2010 17:24, Albertas Agejevas a...@pov.lt wrote: Want an example of a use case DB integration? Consider flight simulators. It would be good to have scenery generated by combining data from OSM with

Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Scheme Recommendations: highway=path, footway, trail?

2010-08-30 Per discussione Craig Wallace
On 30/08/2010 14:53, Steve Bennett wrote: So you could end up mapping highway=path; bicycle=yes; width=1; surface=dirt; in great detail, and totally miss the fact it's unrideable. Use mtb:scale and/or sac_scale, to tag how ridable/hikable it is.

Re: [OSM-talk] Duplicate nodes generally

2010-08-30 Per discussione M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
2010/8/30 Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com: Or you are not supposed to route over them. My routing engine merge those nodes during the compile phase and then does route over them. and how does it determinate, that the 2 nodes are really one, and it isn't disconnected on purpose? cheers, Martin

Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Scheme Recommendations: highway=path, footway, trail?

2010-08-30 Per discussione Graham Jones
Hi All, I think the use of the existing tagging schemes for bicycle suitability is the way to go - no point inventing another scheme. One that I would like to use though is a scale for wheelchair accessibility. I envisage a scheme along the lines of the mtb one where you could have the range:

Re: [OSM-talk] Duplicate nodes generally

2010-08-30 Per discussione Nic Roets
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 5:26 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2010/8/30 Nic Roets nro...@gmail.com: Or you are not supposed to route over them. My routing engine merge those nodes during the compile phase and then does route over them. and how does it determinate,

Re: [OSM-talk] Tagging Scheme Recommendations: highway=path, footway, trail?

2010-08-30 Per discussione John F. Eldredge
I don't know if there already is such a scheme, but it makes sense to me. In addition to tagging the trail as a whole, it would also make sense to tag any particularly difficult sections, such as using the incline= tag on steep sections, and width= on particularly narrow sections. This would

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Russ Nelson
Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason writes: That reads like SteveC's personally against it, therefore we have to do something else. I'd hope the legal process isn't that cabal like in practice. Here's the thing: a BDFL, to retain his authority, must be careful not to make arbitrary decisions based on

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Richard Fairhurst
Russ Nelson wrote: Second, because it will do minimum damage to the community (the discussion here is evidence that the community WILL be badly harmed by relicensing). We'll lose people whichever way it goes. I guess, for example, that Etienne might not contribute to an ODbL-licensed OSM.

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione andrzej zaborowski
On 30 August 2010 12:11, Chris Browet c...@semperpax.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 12:02, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: cc-by-sa (and almost? every viral license) allows for forking as long as said fork is under the same license. Note the number of Wikipedia forks and

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Jane Smith
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 8:34 PM, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.comwrote: On 30 August 2010 12:11, Chris Browet c...@semperpax.com wrote: On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 12:02, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: cc-by-sa (and almost? every viral license) allows for forking as long as

[OSM-talk] State of the Map 2011 - Call for venues

2010-08-30 Per discussione Henk Hoff
Hi all, Summer is almost over in the northern hemisphere (sorry to break the news). Time to start thinking about where the 5th edition of State of the Map will be held next year. The call for venues is open at http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2011/Bid Submit your bid before

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione John Smith
On 31 August 2010 06:51, Jane Smith janesmith...@gmail.com wrote: That is not true as 80n has shown. It's an anti-thetan license with pseudo GPL clauses and is Racist against Australians. While some love to keep confusing the issue and keep saying that most speaking out are against the ODBL,

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Jane Smith
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 3:05 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.comwrote: On 31 August 2010 06:51, Jane Smith janesmith...@gmail.com wrote: That is not true as 80n has shown. It's an anti-thetan license with pseudo GPL clauses and is Racist against Australians. While some love to keep

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Nathan Edgars II
Jane Smith is probably the same person as fake Steve C. Lynch 'em. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Community vs. Licensing

2010-08-30 Per discussione Jane Smith
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 4:30 AM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.comwrote: Jane Smith is probably the same person as fake Steve C. Lynch 'em. No I am concerned mapper like You who doesn't want to use real name. We should not lynch anyone apart from those who are killing the map with the 'new

Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Mapping party Utrecht geslaagd

2010-08-30 Per discussione Peter de Bruin
Ik ben ook nog niet klaar met de Poi's; 'k was weg afgelopen week. 'k Zal het je melden. Op 22 augustus 2010 20:24 schreef Frank Steggink stegg...@steggink.org het volgende: Ja, ondanks de dreigende luchten met 14 man. IMO goede opkomst :) Artikel op blog:

[OSM-talk-nl] Mappen in Putten

2010-08-30 Per discussione robert
Nog 5 dagen en dan zal de definitieve keuze voor de 3de Mapping Party 2010 worden gemaakt. Mappen in Edelhertendorp .. Putten dus. Alle gegevens vind je op http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Netherlands_Mapping_Parties_2010#Putten Heb je zin en wil je nog mee kiezen link dan door

[talk-au] FYI I removed a whole bunch on nodes where ways existed for the same object.

2010-08-30 Per discussione Andrew Harvey
FYI. As per http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#One_feature.2C_one_OSM-object I've removed a whole bunch of nodes where the same feature was mapped out as a way. I made sure not to loose any tags in the process. Changeset http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/5634963. I

Re: [talk-au] FYI I removed a whole bunch on nodes where ways existed for the same object.

2010-08-30 Per discussione Ross Scanlon
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:15:12 +1000 Andrew Harvey andrew.harv...@gmail.com wrote: FYI. As per http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_practice#One_feature.2C_one_OSM-object I've removed a whole bunch of nodes where the same feature was mapped out as a way. I made sure not to loose any tags in

Re: [talk-au] FYI I removed a whole bunch on nodes where ways existed for the same object.

2010-08-30 Per discussione Andrew Harvey
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:30 PM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:15:12 +1000 Do you really think this was a good idea before discussing it on the list? I did ask on the newbies list before about what to do here, I was told that deleting the nodes was the best

Re: [talk-au] FYI I removed a whole bunch on nodes where ways existed for the same object.

2010-08-30 Per discussione Ross Scanlon
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 10:30 PM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:15:12 +1000 Do you really think this was a good idea before discussing it on the list? I did ask on the newbies list before about what to do here, I was told that deleting the nodes was the

Re: [talk-au] FYI I removed a whole bunch on nodes where ways existed for the same object.

2010-08-30 Per discussione Andrew Harvey
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: The original disscussion was more than 12 months ago so not sure where you would find it now. If it was 1 year ago, maybe those renders and searches have been fixed by now? The OSM Mapnik style used on the main page

Re: [Talk-de] Fragen zu einer Wanderrelation

2010-08-30 Per discussione André Joost
Am 28.08.10 14:02, schrieb Holger s...@der: Hallo Liste, danke für die Infos und Hinweise. Eine Frage hätte ich noch. Warum wird der name Tag der Relation nicht mit auf der Karte ausgewertet? Also warum steht nicht in meinem Fall Maria-Pawlowna-Promenadenweg auf dem Weg? Das würde dann bei dem

Re: [Talk-de] svn account fuerr josm-plugins

2010-08-30 Per discussione André Joost
Am 29.08.10 14:13, schrieb Werner König: Hallo Liste, ich möchte ein account, um plugins für josm in das Repositorium auf dem Server zu schreiben. Dafür sollte ich nach meinem Wissenstand den Benutzer TomH kontaktieren. Auf der Webseite http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/TomH findet man jedoch

Re: [Talk-de] Navipowm 0.2.4.

2010-08-30 Per discussione André Joost
Am 27.08.10 17:44, schrieb Wolfgang Wienke: Hallo! Am 27.08.2010 14:23, schrieb Georg Feddern: Auf http://sourceforge.net/projects/navipowm/files/ unten den Baum Browse Files for NaviPOWM - All Files -- Navipowm --- 0.2.4 Dort hatte ich gesucht, fand aber nur PC-Versionen. Wenn du weit

Re: [Talk-de] Fragen zu einer Wanderrelation

2010-08-30 Per discussione NopMap
Holger s...@der wrote: Eine Frage hätte ich noch. Warum wird der name Tag der Relation nicht mit auf der Karte ausgewertet? Also warum steht nicht in meinem Fall Maria-Pawlowna-Promenadenweg auf dem Weg? Weil die Karte dann unlesbar wird. Streckenweise führen auch schon mal 5 Routen

Re: [Talk-de] Lizenzumstellung - Warum kein OSM 2.0 mit besserem Datenmodell?

2010-08-30 Per discussione NopMap
Ich persönlich würde ein verbessertes Datenmodell sehr zu schätzen wissen und denke es würde nicht nur die Anwendung der Daten deutlich erleichtern, sondern auch die Attraktivität des Projektes steigern und den Einstieg für Neu- und Gelegenheitsmapper deutlich vereinfachen. Auf der anderen Seite

Re: [Talk-de] ....ich bleib bei OSM !

2010-08-30 Per discussione Sven Geggus
Felix Hartmann extremecar...@googlemail.com wrote: Gerne, wenn die Odbl zu einer SA Lizenz abgeaendert wird. Sprich wenn nicht nur die Datenbank frei sein muss, sondern auch das daraus erstellte Produkt und keine DRM Mechanismen erlaubt werden (samt Aenderung in CT dass dieser Fakt zentral

Re: [Talk-de] openstreetmap - regestered trademark?

2010-08-30 Per discussione Bernd Wurst
Am Sonntag 29 August 2010, 18:44:59 schrieb Werner König: Nein so ist das ganze nicht, unter diesem link werden map's und andere gis_sachen angeboten, Werbung konnte ich keine erkennen. Ein click auf diesen link lohnt sich (vielleicht). Doch, das ist ne hundordinäre Werbeseite. Deren

Re: [Talk-de] Fragen zu einer Wanderrelation

2010-08-30 Per discussione Holger s...@der
Hallo Liste, NopMap schrieb: Holger s...@der wrote: Eine Frage hätte ich noch. Warum wird der name Tag der Relation nicht mit auf der Karte ausgewertet? Also warum steht nicht in meinem Fall Maria-Pawlowna-Promenadenweg auf dem Weg? Weil die Karte dann unlesbar wird. Streckenweise

Re: [Talk-de] Status OSMdoc

2010-08-30 Per discussione André Riedel
Hallo Lars, Am 6. Juli 2010 12:43 schrieb Lars Francke lars.fran...@gmail.com: Ich denke spätestens Ende Juli werde ich mal wieder ein ausführlicheres Statusupdate schreiben. kannst du schon Erfolge vermelden? Ciao André ___ Talk-de mailing list

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