Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-16 Thread Kevin Kenny
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 1:30 AM Michael Patrick wrote: > And size is no determination of importance, because the 'rules' are > dramatically different for different agencies and departments. Some of these > provide access, The Magruder Corridor easement is basically the width of the > track,

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Kevin Kenny
On Tue, Oct 15, 2019, 16:39 Mike Thompson wrote: > On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 2:28 PM Bradley White > wrote: > >> Yes I understand that, that is what the landuse tag is for. Private >> land should tagged as private. Public land should be tagged as public. >> The 'access' tag is probably preferable

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Kevin Kenny
Once again, I think that New York state lands offer a parallel. The administrative borders of the Adirondack and Catskill parks are mapped (boundary=national_park protect_class=2). This has been discussed elsewhere; for these two specific regions, national_park appears to be a better fit than a

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Bradley White
> I downloaded a quad (geotiff) for part of the area in question and pulled it > into QGIS. It generally agrees with the county land ownership information, > with the exception that some state lands are shown on the quad as owned by > the Federal Government. Perhaps this is an error in one of

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Bradley White
> One point is that the NFS may have made arrangements with the landowner such > that some access by the public is permitted. I say this because an official > USFS trail (Crosier Mountain Trail)[1] crosses private land and there are no > signs saying "No Trespassing" The way may be, but

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Mike Thompson
All, I got this message off list from Greg Mathews who works for the USGS, for some reason he was unable to post himself (something wrong with his subscription perhaps): BEGIN Hi folks, This is a dataset I'm somewhat familiar with. Likely the best available data for land management agency

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Mike Thompson
This key works for anywhere on this > (https://data.fs.usda.gov/geodata/rastergateway/states-regions/states.php) > slippy map - take a look at the national forests near you and you will > find plenty of private land that is still within the NF boundary. > I downloaded a quad (geotiff) for part of

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Mike Thompson
On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 2:30 PM Bradley White wrote: > Sorry - not too familiar with imgur! Does this work? > https://i.imgur.com/4OC23x3.png Yes, that worked! > > ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Mike Thompson
On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 2:28 PM Bradley White wrote: > Yes I understand that, that is what the landuse tag is for. Private > land should tagged as private. Public land should be tagged as public. > The 'access' tag is probably preferable for this, and it's what I use. > My point is that none of

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread stevea
Another place to discuss this might be https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Talk:United_States/Public_lands , an emerging place to try to unravel the highly complex multi-jurisdictional, part human-recreation (part not), "public lands" in the USA. This wiki originally started from a multi-volunteer

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Bradley White
Sorry - not too familiar with imgur! Does this work? https://i.imgur.com/4OC23x3.png On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 1:24 PM Mike Thompson wrote: > > > > On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 2:21 PM Bradley White > wrote: >> >> A visual example since I don't feel like what I'm saying is being >> understood:

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Bradley White
Yes I understand that, that is what the landuse tag is for. Private land should tagged as private. Public land should be tagged as public. The 'access' tag is probably preferable for this, and it's what I use. My point is that none of this involves the NF boundary, and to please leave it alone

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Mike Thompson
On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 2:21 PM Bradley White wrote: > A visual example since I don't feel like what I'm saying is being > understood: https://imgur.com/a/0ELKyxH The link takes me to a page that is asking me to sign in. > > ___ Talk-us mailing list

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Mike Thompson
> Please do not add holes in the boundary unless they are officially > designated! Otherwise there is no point to keeping these > administrative boundaries in OSM. > Ok, but we still need to know where those private inholdings are, because Forest regulations will not apply. For example, unless

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Bradley White
A visual example since I don't feel like what I'm saying is being understood: https://imgur.com/a/0ELKyxH This key works for anywhere on this (https://data.fs.usda.gov/geodata/rastergateway/states-regions/states.php) slippy map - take a look at the national forests near you and you will find

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Bradley White
Every National Forest has an administrative boundary - they can be downloaded here: https://data.fs.usda.gov/geodata/webapps/EDW_DataExtract/. Accept the disclaimer, click the button with the scissors in the top left corner, choose the national forest you want, select 'Administrative Forest

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Bradley White
> Ok, so how to tag the parts that are within the administrative boundaries but > which are not owned by the US Government? Or, how to tag the parts that are > both within the boundary and owned by the US Government? It depends on what is actually on the ground. It appears you and others are

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Kevin
Bradley, I'm not sure that this is typically how federal lands are conceptualized, at least on the east coast. It is usually as Mike suggests a 1:1 correspondence with the actual Fee Simple boundary and federal management. A lot of times when maps are drawn or gis data is developed scale is a

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Mike Thompson
On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 1:12 PM Bradley White wrote: > No, this is incorrect. USFS administrative boundaries and USFS managed > land are not the same thing, though the latter is always inside the > former. The boundaries currently in OSM are administrative boundaries, > and are tagged correctly

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Bradley White
No, this is incorrect. USFS administrative boundaries and USFS managed land are not the same thing, though the latter is always inside the former. The boundaries currently in OSM are administrative boundaries, and are tagged correctly as such. It is perfectly fine to have private land within a

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Mike Thompson
The consensus of those who replied seem to be to exclude these privately held lands from the National Forest boundaries. Is that correct? Does anyone object to that approach? If not, I will proceed in that manner as well. Mike ___ Talk-us mailing list

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-15 Thread Bradley White
> Not all of the land within US National Forests is owned by the US > Government, there are private "inholdings" [1]. > > The boundaries between government land and private land are often marked by > signs, e.g.[2] The above photo is geotagged, and if you drag it into JOSM > you can see that it

Re: [Talk-us] National Forests and Private Ownership

2019-10-14 Thread Kevin Kenny
On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 3:10 PM Mike Thompson wrote: > > Not all of the land within US National Forests is owned by the US Government, > there are private "inholdings" [1]. > > The boundaries between government land and private land are often marked by > signs, e.g.[2] The above photo is