Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-06 Thread Lennart Sorensen via talk 
On Tue, Mar 06, 2018 at 01:51:58PM -0500, Giles Orr wrote:
> Unfortunately, you won't be able to run jigdo on the TPL computers.  If
> you're running your own laptop on TPL's wireless, you could do this.  But
> that won't be as fast as their wired public access machines.  It'll take
> literally hours (I'd guess 4-5 hours, but it depends on the branch and
> could be worse).
> 
> I think the probability of your wanting any software from the fourth
> through 13th DVDs is extremely slim, and you shouldn't worry about it.  If
> you do need it, that's the stuff you put up with downloading later because
> it's actually MORE hassle to get DVDs 4-13 now.  They front-load the most
> wanted stuff onto the first three DVDs.

Absolutely true.  I was just saying that getting those 3 DVDs does not
mean you have _everything_.  Just the most popular stuff.

-- 
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-06 Thread Giles Orr via talk 
On 6 March 2018 at 12:16, Lennart Sorensen via talk  wrote:

> On Tue, Mar 06, 2018 at 08:56:29AM -0500, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk
> wrote:
> > Thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion.
> >
> > All comments read with great interest.
> >
> > * * *
> > * * *
> >
> > I have been able to use a public-access workstation at my local public
> library branch, to download onto my USB hard drive (WD "Elements" model,
> pre-fomatted with NTFS):
> >   a.. the three debian Linux installation DVD isos;
> >   b.. the System Rescue iso;
> >   c.. the Windows installer .exe for unetbootin;
> > We are allowed to plug in our own USB devices (at least a USB hard drive
> works) to the library's public-access worlstations, and download files over
> the very fast Internet connection there.
> >
> > * * *
> > * * *
> >
> > I had thought that the three (3) DVDs listed on the
> > :
> >https://cdimage.debian.org/debiabn-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/
> >
> > page, were all I needed to get a fairly current debian Linux installed
> on my new PC.
> >
> > But now, with Lennart's comment about 3 BDs versus 13 DVDs, I'm very
> confused.
>
> Debian does not offer downloads of all the images by http.  They tell
> you to use jigdo to download them or bittorrent.  There is a comment on
> the download page where it shows the 3 DVD images about this.
>
> Of course they also say most people will never need the rest of the
> images and should do a network install instead.  This is of course what
> 99.9% of users would do.
>
> On the https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/
> page is says:
>
> "Only the first few images are available! Where are the rest?
>
> We don't store/serve the full set of ISO images for all architectures,
> to reduce the amount of space taken up on the mirrors. You can use the
> jigdo tool to recreate the missing ISO images instead."
>

Unfortunately, you won't be able to run jigdo on the TPL computers.  If
you're running your own laptop on TPL's wireless, you could do this.  But
that won't be as fast as their wired public access machines.  It'll take
literally hours (I'd guess 4-5 hours, but it depends on the branch and
could be worse).

I think the probability of your wanting any software from the fourth
through 13th DVDs is extremely slim, and you shouldn't worry about it.  If
you do need it, that's the stuff you put up with downloading later because
it's actually MORE hassle to get DVDs 4-13 now.  They front-load the most
wanted stuff onto the first three DVDs.

-- 
Giles
https://www.gilesorr.com/
giles...@gmail.com
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-06 Thread Lennart Sorensen via talk 
On Tue, Mar 06, 2018 at 08:56:29AM -0500, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
> Thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion.
> 
> All comments read with great interest.
> 
> * * *
> * * *
> 
> I have been able to use a public-access workstation at my local public 
> library branch, to download onto my USB hard drive (WD "Elements" model, 
> pre-fomatted with NTFS):
>   a.. the three debian Linux installation DVD isos; 
>   b.. the System Rescue iso; 
>   c.. the Windows installer .exe for unetbootin;
> We are allowed to plug in our own USB devices (at least a USB hard drive 
> works) to the library's public-access worlstations, and download files over 
> the very fast Internet connection there.
> 
> * * *
> * * *
> 
> I had thought that the three (3) DVDs listed on the 
> :
>https://cdimage.debian.org/debiabn-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/
> 
> page, were all I needed to get a fairly current debian Linux installed on my 
> new PC.
> 
> But now, with Lennart's comment about 3 BDs versus 13 DVDs, I'm very confused.

Debian does not offer downloads of all the images by http.  They tell
you to use jigdo to download them or bittorrent.  There is a comment on
the download page where it shows the 3 DVD images about this.

Of course they also say most people will never need the rest of the
images and should do a network install instead.  This is of course what
99.9% of users would do.

On the https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/
page is says:

"Only the first few images are available! Where are the rest?

We don't store/serve the full set of ISO images for all architectures,
to reduce the amount of space taken up on the mirrors. You can use the
jigdo tool to recreate the missing ISO images instead."

-- 
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-06 Thread Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk 
Thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion.

All comments read with great interest.

* * *
* * *

I have been able to use a public-access workstation at my local public library 
branch, to download onto my USB hard drive (WD "Elements" model, pre-fomatted 
with NTFS):
  a.. the three debian Linux installation DVD isos; 
  b.. the System Rescue iso; 
  c.. the Windows installer .exe for unetbootin;
We are allowed to plug in our own USB devices (at least a USB hard drive works) 
to the library's public-access worlstations, and download files over the very 
fast Internet connection there.

* * *
* * *

I had thought that the three (3) DVDs listed on the 
:
   https://cdimage.debian.org/debiabn-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/

page, were all I needed to get a fairly current debian Linux installed on my 
new PC.

But now, with Lennart's comment about 3 BDs versus 13 DVDs, I'm very confused.

Looks like I need to do more research to understand exactly how many GB of 
debian Linux installation & update files, I am going to need to download.

I'm not a huge fan of doing massive software updates. I tend to be leery of 
just blindly updating software that is working fine. So picking and choosing 
what I update works for me.

Regardless, looks like its Back to the Browser, for more self-education ...

* * *
* * *

There is some kind of CD burning utility software icon, on the main desktop 
display of the library workstation, so I'm going to see if this software can 
create a bootable Syatem Rescue image on a USB memory stick, from the System 
Rescue iso I have already downloaded to my USB hard drive.

Given the low prices i am seeing for USB memory sticks, my thinking is to buy 
two (2) and use one for a System Rescue boot stick, and the other for a debian 
Linux installation boot stick.

Thanks again to all commenters ...

Best Regards,

Steve

* * *
Steve Petrie, P.Eng.

Oakville, Ontario, Canada
(905) 847-3253
apet...@aspetrie.net

- Original Message - 
  From: Lennart Sorensen via talk 
  To: Antonio Sun ; GTALUG Talk 
  Sent: Monday, March 05, 2018 10:16 AM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To 
Canadian Destination ??


  On Sat, Mar 03, 2018 at 10:52:45AM -0500, Antonio Sun via talk wrote:
  > - System Rescue iso is good for some one-off hacks e.g. disk manipulation
  > but not a good way to do Debian Linux Installation.
  > - Even if you get all three installation DVD images onto that 1TB USB
  > drive, that may still be a less optimal option as you most probably need
  > massive update during or right after the installation.
  > 
  > The least-trouble option, contrary to what it seems, is to take your
  > machine to your friend's place with high speed Internet connection, and do
  > the initial installation there. All other options just defer the problems,
  > which you will bump into sooner or later.

  Debian is not 3 DVD images.  It is 14 DVD images or 3 BD images.
  About 60GB total for the images.

  -- 
  Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-05 Thread Russell via talk 


On March 5, 2018 4:30:42 PM EST, Antonio Sun via talk  wrote:
> Remember Lennart's comment?
>
>Debian is not 3 DVD images.  It is 14 DVD images or 3 BD images.
>> About 60GB total for the images.
>
>
>The installation disk *might *be 3 DVD images, then you'll face the
>massive
>update requirement/problem I pointed out earlier, which you need all
>the
>above 14 DVDs to overcome.

No, you would just need to know which files require updates for your needs. 
Updates are like telephone calls, they don't have to be accepted. 

In fact as a general practice, its usually recommended not to update stuff you 
don't particularly need to use or you don't understand, in order to minimize 
the chances of breaking something you do understand and use.

>
>On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:04 AM, Clifford Ilkay via talk wrote:
>
>>
>> Solution: install at friend's house. Updates are still going to be an
>> issue, though most updates tend not to be more than a few megs.
>>
>
>Yep, agree, that's the *only *viable/practical choice.
>
>Everything else will give you more trouble than you'd ask for, and no
>one
>can help, because no one does in those ways.

I don't get it, what's so hard about choosing which packages to download 
opportunistically for later offline installation? dpkg and apt all have query 
tools to use to sort out dependency issues.

What if he wants to air gap a node of a  trusted network for data security 
reasons?

Businesses do that sort of thing all the time in order to protect their trade 
secrets from snoops and scrapes and spooks.

-- 
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-05 Thread o1bigtenor via talk 
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 3:30 PM, Antonio Sun via talk 
wrote:

> Remember Lennart's comment?
>
> Debian is not 3 DVD images.  It is 14 DVD images or 3 BD images.
>> About 60GB total for the images.
>
>
> The installation disk *might *be 3 DVD images, then you'll face the
> massive update requirement/problem I pointed out earlier, which you need
> all the above 14 DVDs to overcome.
>
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:04 AM, Clifford Ilkay via talk wrote:
>
>>
>> Solution: install at friend's house. Updates are still going to be an
>> issue, though most updates tend not to be more than a few megs.
>>
>
> Yep, agree, that's the *only *viable/practical choice.
>
> Everything else will give you more trouble than you'd ask for, and no one
> can help, because no one does in those ways.
>
> Sorry - - - one DVD has enough so that I could install everything I
wanted. That was for Debian 9 (present stable). So downloading one DVD of
material IS a viable AND and practical choice if necessity demands it.

Dee
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-05 Thread Antonio Sun via talk 
 Remember Lennart's comment?

Debian is not 3 DVD images.  It is 14 DVD images or 3 BD images.
> About 60GB total for the images.


The installation disk *might *be 3 DVD images, then you'll face the massive
update requirement/problem I pointed out earlier, which you need all the
above 14 DVDs to overcome.

On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 11:04 AM, Clifford Ilkay via talk wrote:

>
> Solution: install at friend's house. Updates are still going to be an
> issue, though most updates tend not to be more than a few megs.
>

Yep, agree, that's the *only *viable/practical choice.

Everything else will give you more trouble than you'd ask for, and no one
can help, because no one does in those ways.
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-05 Thread Lennart Sorensen via talk 
On Mon, Mar 05, 2018 at 12:07:11PM -0500, Loui Chang via talk wrote:
> In 2018 Debian cannot perform resumable downloads in its installer and
> package manager?

I believe if it times out and you retry it will resume, but it would still
be painful.  I don't remember if the installer has dialup support or not.
The documentation appears to claim it does support dialup.

It would be extremely painful to use though given the number of hours
it would take.

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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-05 Thread Loui Chang via talk 
On Mon 05 Mar 2018 11:04 -0500, Clifford Ilkay via talk wrote:
> A netinstall would not be feasible if you cannot count on your connection
> to stay up for the duration of the installation. You'd be better off
> downloading an ISO image via BitTorrent or rsync, something that can resume
> the download.

In 2018 Debian cannot perform resumable downloads in its installer and
package manager?

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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-05 Thread Clifford Ilkay via talk 
On Mon, Mar 5, 2018 at 7:23 AM, o1bigtenor  wrote:
>
> So if the op is limited to dial-up - - -  for pete's sake cut him some
> slack. He's already talking about using a friend's access for the initial
> download but the headache factor, especially with a desktop system, of
> continuing to rely on outside access - - - well its huge. I empathize
> because for a period of time just a few years ago I had access that was
> supposed to be 2 down and 0.5 up yet in fact was most often about 0.3 down
> and the up was 0.15 or so. Doing an on-line banking transaction was a 5 to
> 8 minute ordeal - -  a system install was a 12 to 14 hour problem (all the
> while hoping that the connection wouldn't die).
>


A netinstall would not be feasible if you cannot count on your connection
to stay up for the duration of the installation. You'd be better off
downloading an ISO image via BitTorrent or rsync, something that can resume
the download. You would still have to deal with the fact that your ISO
image is going to be out-of-date so the first update may be hundreds of
megs.



> So perhaps instead of smugly prating about how you would do it - - -
> perhaps you might actually assist in developing a solution that will work
> for the op in HIS circumstances - - - - NOT YOURS (yes I meant to yell - -
> - I'm finding the last serious of comments quite tedious and very
> infuriating in their arrogance! In fact the suggestions are starting to
> sounds quite like the government bureaucrats in this same area).
>


Solution: install at friend's house. Updates are still going to be an
issue, though most updates tend not to be more than a few megs.

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay

+1 647-778-8696 <(647)%20778-8696>
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-05 Thread Lennart Sorensen via talk 
On Sat, Mar 03, 2018 at 10:52:45AM -0500, Antonio Sun via talk wrote:
> - System Rescue iso is good for some one-off hacks e.g. disk manipulation
> but not a good way to do Debian Linux Installation.
> - Even if you get all three installation DVD images onto that 1TB USB
> drive, that may still be a less optimal option as you most probably need
> massive update during or right after the installation.
> 
> The least-trouble option, contrary to what it seems, is to take your
> machine to your friend's place with high speed Internet connection, and do
> the initial installation there. All other options just defer the problems,
> which you will bump into sooner or later.

Debian is not 3 DVD images.  It is 14 DVD images or 3 BD images.
About 60GB total for the images.

-- 
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-05 Thread o1bigtenor via talk 
On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 10:31 PM, Clifford Ilkay via talk 
wrote:

> On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk <
> talk@gtalug.org> wrote:
>
>> I likely will be building the new PC at my friend's place. Before I teke
>> the new PC home with me, to do all the work of installing debian Linux for
>> regular use, I want to check the new PC to make sure that at least it can
>> boot Linux and mess around with the hardware (e.g. create files).
>>
>> System Rescue seems perfect to me, for doing this Linux compatibility
>> pre-qualification at my friend's place.
>>
>> * **
>> * * *
>>
>> Certainly I could probably use my friend's high-speed link to do a
>> painless install of debian Linux.
>>
>> But I want to perform the debian install in such a way that I am
>> completely independent of any other facilities.
>>
>
>
> This reminds me of the Gentoo fans who thought that they were somehow more
> "in control" of their machines just because they were copying/pasting
> commands from the Gentoo forums and building Gentoo from source. It was an
> exercise in yak shaving, just as an offline installation when you have
> access to a broadband connection is and just as configuring a dial-up
> connection knowing that you're switching to broadband Internet anyway is.
> Taken to the extreme, I suppose you could get a printout of all the
> software you intend to install and start transcribing. :)
>
>
>
>> And also to be independent of any need for a network connection to be
>> able to do a fresh installation of debian Linux.
>>
>
>
> I don't know if you realize that you have spent more time talking/writing
> about this than it would have to download and install Debian. If you are at
> your friend's place and your friend has a broadband connection, you'll have
> Debian running in about 20 minutes with a reasonable network connection.
> Installing this way does not preclude you from using a dial-up connection
> to update later. In fact, if you install via a DVD, you're going to have to
> change /etc/apt/sources.list to point to the online repos that your machine
> should fetch from when you connect via dial-up. Otherwise, it will check
> for updates on the DVD. If you install using your broadband connection, you
> won't have to change a thing in sources.list to update later when or if you
> get dial-up working.
>

Have been only following this thread but it has devolved into almost
diatribes by those, that to me at least, just don't get one part of the
op's problem.

I am on wireless 'high-speed' internet here and 20 minutes for a
net-install system is a dream - - - NOT a reality. It seems that those in
major urban centers believe that all of the world is able to function as
they are and in this case, internet access and speeds, nothing could be
further from the truth. In fact I am paying more for my paltry 9 down/ 2 up
access than urban connections pay for 75 down. And I'm on 'high-speed'
(purportedly even if not in fact!). So if the op is limited to dial-up - -
-  for pete's sake cut him some slack. He's already talking about using a
friend's access for the initial download but the headache factor,
especially with a desktop system, of continuing to rely on outside access -
- - well its huge. I empathize because for a period of time just a few
years ago I had access that was supposed to be 2 down and 0.5 up yet in
fact was most often about 0.3 down and the up was 0.15 or so. Doing an
on-line banking transaction was a 5 to 8 minute ordeal - -  a system
install was a 12 to 14 hour problem (all the while hoping that the
connection wouldn't die).

So perhaps instead of smugly prating about how you would do it - - -
perhaps you might actually assist in developing a solution that will work
for the op in HIS circumstances - - - - NOT YOURS (yes I meant to yell - -
- I'm finding the last serious of comments quite tedious and very
infuriating in their arrogance! In fact the suggestions are starting to
sounds quite like the government bureaucrats in this same area).

 Dee
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-04 Thread Clifford Ilkay via talk 
On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 8:53 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk <
talk@gtalug.org> wrote:

> I likely will be building the new PC at my friend's place. Before I teke
> the new PC home with me, to do all the work of installing debian Linux for
> regular use, I want to check the new PC to make sure that at least it can
> boot Linux and mess around with the hardware (e.g. create files).
>
> System Rescue seems perfect to me, for doing this Linux compatibility
> pre-qualification at my friend's place.
>
> * **
> * * *
>
> Certainly I could probably use my friend's high-speed link to do a
> painless install of debian Linux.
>
> But I want to perform the debian install in such a way that I am
> completely independent of any other facilities.
>


This reminds me of the Gentoo fans who thought that they were somehow more
"in control" of their machines just because they were copying/pasting
commands from the Gentoo forums and building Gentoo from source. It was an
exercise in yak shaving, just as an offline installation when you have
access to a broadband connection is and just as configuring a dial-up
connection knowing that you're switching to broadband Internet anyway is.
Taken to the extreme, I suppose you could get a printout of all the
software you intend to install and start transcribing. :)



> And also to be independent of any need for a network connection to be able
> to do a fresh installation of debian Linux.
>


I don't know if you realize that you have spent more time talking/writing
about this than it would have to download and install Debian. If you are at
your friend's place and your friend has a broadband connection, you'll have
Debian running in about 20 minutes with a reasonable network connection.
Installing this way does not preclude you from using a dial-up connection
to update later. In fact, if you install via a DVD, you're going to have to
change /etc/apt/sources.list to point to the online repos that your machine
should fetch from when you connect via dial-up. Otherwise, it will check
for updates on the DVD. If you install using your broadband connection, you
won't have to change a thing in sources.list to update later when or if you
get dial-up working.

If I were in your shoes, I would download the Debian netinstall CD, which
is just over 300M. That is small enough that you can even do that over your
dial-up connection. I would boot from the netinstall image and install away
while you have a broadband connection. Subsequent updates generally won't
be that big so if you get dial-up working, you'll be able to do the updates
when you connect. I say "if you get it working" because I don't remember
what type of modem you're starting with. If you have an exernal modem, you
should be fine. Internal modems are dicier. There were many that were
WinModems and those wouldn't work 20 years ago when dial-up was commonly
used. In those days, I used to use wvdial. I see that it's still available
in Debian .

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay

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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-04 Thread Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk 
Appreciate the offer of assist with dial-up !!

Steve

- Original Message - 
  From: Kevin Cozens via talk 
  To: talk@gtalug.org 
  Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2018 12:20 PM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To 
Canadian Destination ??


  On 2018-03-03 09:45 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
  > Probably�true that dial-up under Linux will be fiddly as heck ... 

  In my early days of using Linux I had used dial-up for Internet access. I 
  also wrote information in a book about how I had set things up so I could 
  reference the should I need it again.

  I have notes from 1995 about how I configured Linux to access the network of 
  the company I was working at via dial-up using pppd. I have notes from 
  October of 1996 where things had changed and the way to get a PPP link via 
  dial-up in Linux 2.0 was using dip.

  It has been a long time since I last used dial-up. I don't know if dip is 
  still the way to get dial-up network access or if there is something newer 
  available.

  pppd and dip will give you something to research. The GUI configuration 
  tools might have options that will make setting up dial-up easy. If not, I 
  can type up some of my notes for you of what I did back in the day.

  -- 
  Cheers!

  Kevin.

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  Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-04 Thread Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk 
Pls. see below.

Steve

Oakville, Ontario, Canada
(905) 847-3253
apet...@aspetrie.net

  - Original Message - 
  From: Antonio Sun via talk 
  To: GTALUG Talk 
  Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2018 10:52 AM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To 
Canadian Destination ??






  On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Steve Petrie P.Eng. wrote:


  >3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking hard
  >disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the
  >debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
  >
  >4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet connection
  >so I'll see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto
  >that USB drive. We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that,
  >unfortunately. Then I'll try the Linux install from that USB drive.

  I know your final target is lxde but the System Rescue iso has a very 
small footprint and it is great for slow connections. I have done it for 
several people in the past and it contains number of very useful tools for disk 
manipulation. 

  IMO, 


  - System Rescue iso is good for some one-off hacks e.g. disk manipulation but 
not a good way to do Debian Linux Installation.
  - Even if you get all three installation DVD images onto that 1TB USB drive, 
that may still be a less optimal option as you most probably need massive 
update during or right after the installation. 


  The least-trouble option, contrary to what it seems, is to take your machine 
to your friend's place with high speed Internet connection, and do the initial 
installation there. All other options just defer the problems, which you will 
bump into sooner or later. 
I likely will be building the new PC at my friend's place. Before I teke the 
new PC home with me, to do all the work of installing debian Linux for regular 
use, I want to check the new PC to make sure that at least it can boot Linux 
and mess around with the hardware (e.g. create files).

System Rescue seems perfect to me, for doing this Linux compatibility 
pre-qualification at my friend's place.

* **
* * *

Certainly I could probably use my friend's high-speed link to do a painless 
install of debian Linux.

But I want to perform the debian install in such a way that I am completely 
independent of any other facilities. And also to be independent of any need for 
a network connection to be able to do a fresh installation of debian Linux.

So I need to have the debian Linux installation isos on portable physical media 
in a format that will boot into the installation process.




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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-03 Thread Russell via talk 


On March 3, 2018 10:52:45 AM EST, Antonio Sun via talk  wrote:
>On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Steve Petrie P.Eng. wrote:
>
>>
>> >3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking
>hard
>> >disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the
>> >debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
>> >
>> >4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet
>connection
>> >so I'll see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images
>onto
>> >that USB drive. We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that,
>> >unfortunately. Then I'll try the Linux install from that USB drive.
>>
>> I know your final target is lxde but the System Rescue iso has a very
>> small footprint and it is great for slow connections. I have done it
>for
>> several people in the past and it contains number of very useful
>tools for
>> disk manipulation.
>>
>>
>IMO,
>
>- System Rescue iso is good for some one-off hacks e.g. disk
>manipulation
>but not a good way to do Debian Linux Installation.

Why not? It's a very small download, fits on a cd and as a live distro it 
supports multiple file systems. Its a pretty good way to get started with the 
look and feel of GNU linux. 

Just remember to type startx at the console and you are good to go. You could 
explore and scarify old disks for reuse, or lay the foundations for the new. 

>- Even if you get all three installation DVD images onto that 1TB USB
>drive, that may still be a less optimal option as you most probably
>need
>massive update during or right after the installation.

Updates are optional. If there is an issue for some security reasons, or 
something needs to be  managed under some policy or other, you will be glad you 
wet your feet on a live distro first.

>
>The least-trouble option, contrary to what it seems, is to take your
>machine to your friend's place with high speed Internet connection, and
>do
>the initial installation there. All other options just defer the
>problems,
>which you will bump into sooner or later.

I find a usb pen and a few disks to be a lot easier to carry around with me 
than an entire system assembly. They get heavy and you can bump into problems 
there as well. At least optical disks are cheap and resilient.

-- 
Russell
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-03 Thread Kevin Cozens via talk 

On 2018-03-03 09:45 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
Probably�true that dial-up under Linux will be fiddly as heck ... 


In my early days of using Linux I had used dial-up for Internet access. I 
also wrote information in a book about how I had set things up so I could 
reference the should I need it again.


I have notes from 1995 about how I configured Linux to access the network of 
the company I was working at via dial-up using pppd. I have notes from 
October of 1996 where things had changed and the way to get a PPP link via 
dial-up in Linux 2.0 was using dip.


It has been a long time since I last used dial-up. I don't know if dip is 
still the way to get dial-up network access or if there is something newer 
available.


pppd and dip will give you something to research. The GUI configuration 
tools might have options that will make setting up dial-up easy. If not, I 
can type up some of my notes for you of what I did back in the day.


--
Cheers!

Kevin.

http://www.ve3syb.ca/   |"Nerds make the shiny things that distract
Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172  | the mouth-breathers, and that's why we're
| powerful!"
#include  | --Chris Hardwick
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-03 Thread Antonio Sun via talk 
On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 9:44 AM, Steve Petrie P.Eng. wrote:

>
> >3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking hard
> >disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the
> >debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
> >
> >4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet connection
> >so I'll see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto
> >that USB drive. We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that,
> >unfortunately. Then I'll try the Linux install from that USB drive.
>
> I know your final target is lxde but the System Rescue iso has a very
> small footprint and it is great for slow connections. I have done it for
> several people in the past and it contains number of very useful tools for
> disk manipulation.
>
>
IMO,

- System Rescue iso is good for some one-off hacks e.g. disk manipulation
but not a good way to do Debian Linux Installation.
- Even if you get all three installation DVD images onto that 1TB USB
drive, that may still be a less optimal option as you most probably need
massive update during or right after the installation.

The least-trouble option, contrary to what it seems, is to take your
machine to your friend's place with high speed Internet connection, and do
the initial installation there. All other options just defer the problems,
which you will bump into sooner or later.
---
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-03 Thread Russell via talk 


On March 3, 2018 9:44:25 AM EST, "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" 
 wrote:
>Russell -- thanks for the tip about small footprint system rescue --
>I'll try it.

Just a small correction and a confession. Gentoo uses Portage not Aptitude as 
its update manager.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portage_(software)

I've never actually installed Gentoo but for a Linux pocket knife, you can't 
beat the System Rescue iso for portability and functions.

>
>Steve
>  - Original Message - 
>  From: Russell 
>  To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk 
>  Sent: Friday, March 02, 2018 11:01 AM
>Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set -
>Shipped To Canadian Destination ??
>
>
>
>
>On March 2, 2018 10:25:16 AM EST, "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk"
> wrote:
>  >Many thanks to the many helpful responders !!
>  >
>  >Too many for me to thank individually ...
>  >
>  >* * *
>  >* * *
>  >
>  >Here is what I have digested and decided, based on GTALUG advivce
>  >received:
>  >
>  >1. Thanks for the multiple offers to burn & ship DVDs and / or other
>  >media.
>  >
>  >2. I'll accept the USB device advice, and use a USB device for the
>  >installation media.
>  >
> >3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking hard
>  >disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the
>  >debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
>  >
>>4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet
>connection
>>so I'll see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto
>  >that USB drive. We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that,
>  >unfortunately. Then I'll try the Linux install from that USB drive.
>
>I know your final target is lxde but the System Rescue iso has a very
>small footprint and it is great for slow connections. I have done it
>for several people in the past and it contains number of very useful
>tools for disk manipulation. It uses Debian apt tools for repository
>management and is based on well documented Gentoo linux.
>
>  http://www.system-rescue-cd.org
>
>  >
>>5. Thanks also for the cautionary advice re: dial-up modem on Linux. I
>  >did some research earlier, but of course the proof will be in the
>  >actual attempt to use the modem :) I do plan to upgrade to a faster
>  >(and dedicated) Internet link !! Just wanted to try first with the
>>dial-up modem. Trying to simplify my life by postponing the networking
> >upgrade. And also out of plain perverse curiosity, more than anything
>  >else.
>  >
>  >* * *
>  >* * *
>  >
>  >Thanks again to GTALUG members for all the advice. Makes this whole
> >shift from Windows XP to debian Linux s much more comfortable. No
>  >doubt I'll be back in touch again at some point, during the build
>  >adventure... :)
>
>I use system rescue to prepare dual boot systems and troubleshoot with
>it all the time. My copy is on a very old 1gig usb pen drive. I
>wouldn't start a fresh install without having a copy available.
>
>  Good luck with the build.
>  >
>  >Best,
>  >
>  >Steve
>  >
>  >- Original Message - 
>  >  From: Giles Orr 
>  >  To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk 
>  >  Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2018 2:24 PM
>  >Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set -
>  >Shipped To Canadian Destination ??
>  >
>  >
>  >On 1 March 2018 at 09:28, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk
>  > wrote:
>  >
>  >Greetings To GTALUG,
>  >
> >I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run
>  >debian Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell
>  >desktop PC with MS Windows XP.
>  >
>  >* * *
>  >* * *
>  >
> >I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE)
>>installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does
>  >not yet support live install with UEFI).
>  >
>>I need the installation DVDs because I use a very slow telephone-grade
>>dial-up line modem for my Internet connection, so a Linux installation
> >via network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up
>>line with the new debian Linux PC, at least for the first while.
>GTALUG
>>advice put me on to the idea of using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.)
>  >
>  >Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org but am concerned
>  >about getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian
>

Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-03 Thread Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk 
See below.

Steve

- Original Message - 
  From: Lennart Sorensen 
  To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk 
  Cc: Giles Orr 
  Sent: Friday, March 02, 2018 11:24 AM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To 
Canadian Destination ??


  On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 10:25:16AM -0500, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
  > Many thanks to the many helpful responders !!
  > 
  > Too many for me to thank individually ...
  > 

  

  > 5. Thanks also for the cautionary advice re: dial-up modem on Linux. I did 
some research earlier, but of course the proof will be in the actual attempt to 
use the modem :) I do plan to upgrade to a faster (and dedicated) Internet link 
!! Just wanted to try first with the dial-up modem. Trying to simplify my life 
by postponing the networking upgrade. And also out of plain perverse curiosity, 
more than anything else.

  Nothing could simplify life more than avoiding dial-up.

  -- 
  Len Sorensen
Probably true that dial-up under Linux will be fiddly as heck ... But if I give 
up on dial-up under debian Linux without a fight, then I won't be the same 
rabidly independent Windows XP "orphan" outlier, migrating to Linux instead of 
Windows 10 ...
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-03 Thread Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk 
Russell -- thanks for the tip about small footprint system rescue -- I'll try 
it.

Steve
  - Original Message - 
  From: Russell 
  To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk 
  Sent: Friday, March 02, 2018 11:01 AM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To 
Canadian Destination ??




  On March 2, 2018 10:25:16 AM EST, "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" 
 wrote:
  >Many thanks to the many helpful responders !!
  >
  >Too many for me to thank individually ...
  >
  >* * *
  >* * *
  >
  >Here is what I have digested and decided, based on GTALUG advivce
  >received:
  >
  >1. Thanks for the multiple offers to burn & ship DVDs and / or other
  >media.
  >
  >2. I'll accept the USB device advice, and use a USB device for the
  >installation media.
  >
  >3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking hard
  >disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the
  >debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
  >
  >4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet connection
  >so I'll see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto
  >that USB drive. We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that,
  >unfortunately. Then I'll try the Linux install from that USB drive.

  I know your final target is lxde but the System Rescue iso has a very small 
footprint and it is great for slow connections. I have done it for several 
people in the past and it contains number of very useful tools for disk 
manipulation. It uses Debian apt tools for repository management and is based 
on well documented Gentoo linux.

  http://www.system-rescue-cd.org

  >
  >5. Thanks also for the cautionary advice re: dial-up modem on Linux. I
  >did some research earlier, but of course the proof will be in the
  >actual attempt to use the modem :) I do plan to upgrade to a faster
  >(and dedicated) Internet link !! Just wanted to try first with the
  >dial-up modem. Trying to simplify my life by postponing the networking
  >upgrade. And also out of plain perverse curiosity, more than anything
  >else.
  >
  >* * *
  >* * *
  >
  >Thanks again to GTALUG members for all the advice. Makes this whole
  >shift from Windows XP to debian Linux s much more comfortable. No
  >doubt I'll be back in touch again at some point, during the build
  >adventure... :)

  I use system rescue to prepare dual boot systems and troubleshoot with it all 
the time. My copy is on a very old 1gig usb pen drive. I wouldn't start a fresh 
install without having a copy available.

  Good luck with the build.
  >
  >Best,
  >
  >Steve
  >
  >----- Original Message - 
  >  From: Giles Orr 
  >  To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk 
  >  Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2018 2:24 PM
  >Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set -
  >Shipped To Canadian Destination ??
  >
  >
  >On 1 March 2018 at 09:28, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk
  > wrote:
  >
  >Greetings To GTALUG,
  >
  >I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run
  >debian Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell
  >desktop PC with MS Windows XP.
  >
  >* * *
  >* * *
  >
  >I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE)
  >installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does
  >not yet support live install with UEFI).
  >
  >I need the installation DVDs because I use a very slow telephone-grade
  >dial-up line modem for my Internet connection, so a Linux installation
  >via network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up
  >line with the new debian Linux PC, at least for the first while. GTALUG
  >advice put me on to the idea of using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.)
  >
  >Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org but am concerned
  >about getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian
  >customs duties, that may be collected by courier delivering to the
  >Canadian address from U.S.A
  >
  >* * *
  >* * *
  >
  >Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux
  >(LXDE) DVD installation sets ??
  >
  >I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell
  >Fibe, and download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the
  >DVDs myself, but I prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes.
  >
  >Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially
  >messy detail of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install DVDs,
  >greatly appreciated !!
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >The last time I had to help someone with a modem on Linux 3-4 years
  >

Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-02 Thread Lennart Sorensen via talk 
On Fri, Mar 02, 2018 at 10:25:16AM -0500, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
> Many thanks to the many helpful responders !!
> 
> Too many for me to thank individually ...
> 
> * * *
> * * *
> 
> Here is what I have digested and decided, based on GTALUG advivce received:
> 
> 1. Thanks for the multiple offers to burn & ship DVDs and / or other media.
> 
> 2. I'll accept the USB device advice, and use a USB device for the 
> installation media.
> 
> 3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking hard disk 
> backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the debian Linux 
> (LXDE) installation device.
> 
> 4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet connection so 
> I'll see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto that USB 
> drive. We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that, unfortunately. Then 
> I'll try the Linux install from that USB drive.
> 
> 5. Thanks also for the cautionary advice re: dial-up modem on Linux. I did 
> some research earlier, but of course the proof will be in the actual attempt 
> to use the modem :) I do plan to upgrade to a faster (and dedicated) Internet 
> link !! Just wanted to try first with the dial-up modem. Trying to simplify 
> my life by postponing the networking upgrade. And also out of plain perverse 
> curiosity, more than anything else.

Nothing could simplify life more than avoiding dial-up.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-02 Thread Russell via talk 


On March 2, 2018 10:25:16 AM EST, "Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk" 
 wrote:
>Many thanks to the many helpful responders !!
>
>Too many for me to thank individually ...
>
>* * *
>* * *
>
>Here is what I have digested and decided, based on GTALUG advivce
>received:
>
>1. Thanks for the multiple offers to burn & ship DVDs and / or other
>media.
>
>2. I'll accept the USB device advice, and use a USB device for the
>installation media.
>
>3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking hard
>disk backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the
>debian Linux (LXDE) installation device.
>
>4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet connection
>so I'll see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto
>that USB drive. We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that,
>unfortunately. Then I'll try the Linux install from that USB drive.

I know your final target is lxde but the System Rescue iso has a very small 
footprint and it is great for slow connections. I have done it for several 
people in the past and it contains number of very useful tools for disk 
manipulation. It uses Debian apt tools for repository management and is based 
on well documented Gentoo linux.

http://www.system-rescue-cd.org

>
>5. Thanks also for the cautionary advice re: dial-up modem on Linux. I
>did some research earlier, but of course the proof will be in the
>actual attempt to use the modem :) I do plan to upgrade to a faster
>(and dedicated) Internet link !! Just wanted to try first with the
>dial-up modem. Trying to simplify my life by postponing the networking
>upgrade. And also out of plain perverse curiosity, more than anything
>else.
>
>* * *
>* * *
>
>Thanks again to GTALUG members for all the advice. Makes this whole
>shift from Windows XP to debian Linux s much more comfortable. No
>doubt I'll be back in touch again at some point, during the build
>adventure... :)

I use system rescue to prepare dual boot systems and troubleshoot with it all 
the time. My copy is on a very old 1gig usb pen drive. I wouldn't start a fresh 
install without having a copy available.

Good luck with the build.
>
>Best,
>
>Steve
>
>- Original Message ----- 
>  From: Giles Orr 
>  To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk 
>  Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2018 2:24 PM
>Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set -
>Shipped To Canadian Destination ??
>
>
>On 1 March 2018 at 09:28, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk
> wrote:
>
>Greetings To GTALUG,
>
>I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run
>debian Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell
>desktop PC with MS Windows XP.
>
>* * *
>* * *
>
>I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE)
>installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does
>not yet support live install with UEFI).
>
>I need the installation DVDs because I use a very slow telephone-grade
>dial-up line modem for my Internet connection, so a Linux installation
>via network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up
>line with the new debian Linux PC, at least for the first while. GTALUG
>advice put me on to the idea of using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.)
>
>Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org but am concerned
>about getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian
>customs duties, that may be collected by courier delivering to the
>Canadian address from U.S.A
>
>* * *
>* * *
>
>Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux
>(LXDE) DVD installation sets ??
>
>I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell
>Fibe, and download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the
>DVDs myself, but I prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes.
>
>Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially
>messy detail of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install DVDs,
>greatly appreciated !!
>
>
>
>
>The last time I had to help someone with a modem on Linux 3-4 years
>ago, it was kind of a nightmare.  Before you buy, make sure it has
>Linux support - and then spend some time researching what they mean by
>that, because one of the things I encountered was "has Linux support"
>meant "if you go pay someone else for a driver that only works with a
>specific kernel."  I don't consider that real Linux support, so do your
>homework.
>
>
>Keep in mind that every time a new kernel comes out (~once a month with
>Debian stable, ~every two weeks with t

Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-02 Thread Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk 
Many thanks to the many helpful responders !!

Too many for me to thank individually ...

* * *
* * *

Here is what I have digested and decided, based on GTALUG advivce received:

1. Thanks for the multiple offers to burn & ship DVDs and / or other media.

2. I'll accept the USB device advice, and use a USB device for the installation 
media.

3. I already own two (2) WD 1 TB USB drives, acquired for taking hard disk 
backups of the new PC. So I'll try using one of those for the debian Linux 
(LXDE) installation device.

4. My friend has a Windows 10 setup with high speed Internet connection so I'll 
see if he and I can get all three installation DVD images onto that USB drive. 
We can't use any Linux utilities while doing that, unfortunately. Then I'll try 
the Linux install from that USB drive.

5. Thanks also for the cautionary advice re: dial-up modem on Linux. I did some 
research earlier, but of course the proof will be in the actual attempt to use 
the modem :) I do plan to upgrade to a faster (and dedicated) Internet link !! 
Just wanted to try first with the dial-up modem. Trying to simplify my life by 
postponing the networking upgrade. And also out of plain perverse curiosity, 
more than anything else.

* * *
* * *

Thanks again to GTALUG members for all the advice. Makes this whole shift from 
Windows XP to debian Linux s much more comfortable. No doubt I'll be back 
in touch again at some point, during the build adventure... :)

Best,

Steve

- Original Message - 
  From: Giles Orr 
  To: Steve Petrie, P.Eng. ; GTALUG Talk 
  Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2018 2:24 PM
  Subject: Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To 
Canadian Destination ??


  On 1 March 2018 at 09:28, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk  
wrote:

Greetings To GTALUG,

I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run 
debian Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell desktop PC 
with MS Windows XP.

* * *
* * *

I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) 
installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not yet 
support live install with UEFI).

I need the installation DVDs because I use a very slow telephone-grade 
dial-up line modem for my Internet connection, so a Linux installation via 
network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up line with the 
new debian Linux PC, at least for the first while. GTALUG advice put me on to 
the idea of using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.)

Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org but am concerned about 
getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian customs duties, 
that may be collected by courier delivering to the Canadian address from U.S.A

* * *
* * *

Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux (LXDE) 
DVD installation sets ??

I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell Fibe, 
and download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the DVDs myself, 
but I prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes.

Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially messy 
detail of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install DVDs, greatly 
appreciated !!




  The last time I had to help someone with a modem on Linux 3-4 years ago, it 
was kind of a nightmare.  Before you buy, make sure it has Linux support - and 
then spend some time researching what they mean by that, because one of the 
things I encountered was "has Linux support" meant "if you go pay someone else 
for a driver that only works with a specific kernel."  I don't consider that 
real Linux support, so do your homework.


  Keep in mind that every time a new kernel comes out (~once a month with 
Debian stable, ~every two weeks with testing??) you're in for an overnight (or 
at least multi-hour) download.  I'm afraid you're going to find yourself 
dreading the 'apt-get dist-upgrade' command, which you _should_ run often.


  I'd also add a vote for seeing if you can get USB media: it's a lot easier to 
deal with these days, and more common.  It could also allow you to skip putting 
an optical drive into your new machine if you don't otherwise need it.


  -- 

  Giles
  https://www.gilesorr.com/
  giles...@gmail.com---
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-01 Thread Giles Orr via talk 
On 1 March 2018 at 09:28, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk 
wrote:

> *Greetings To GTALUG,*
>
> I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run
> debian Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell desktop
> PC with MS Windows XP.
>
> * * *
> * * *
>
> *I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE)
> installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not
> yet support live install with UEFI).*
>
> I need the installation DVDs because I *use a very slow telephone-grade
> dial-up line modem for my Internet connection*, so a Linux installation
> via network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up line
> with the new debian Linux PC, at least for the first while. GTALUG advice
> put me on to the idea of using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.)
>
> Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org but am concerned about
> getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian customs
> duties, that may be collected by courier delivering to the Canadian address
> from U.S.A
>
> * * *
> * * *
>
> *Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux (LXDE)
> DVD installation sets ??*
>
> I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell Fibe,
> and download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the DVDs
> myself, but I prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes.
>
> Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially messy
> detail of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install DVDs, greatly
> appreciated *!!*
>
>
The last time I had to help someone with a modem on Linux 3-4 years ago, it
was kind of a nightmare.  Before you buy, make sure it has Linux support -
and then spend some time researching what they mean by that, because one of
the things I encountered was "has Linux support" meant "if you go pay
someone else for a driver that only works with a specific kernel."  I don't
consider that real Linux support, so do your homework.

Keep in mind that every time a new kernel comes out (~once a month with
Debian stable, ~every two weeks with testing??) you're in for an overnight
(or at least multi-hour) download.  I'm afraid you're going to find
yourself dreading the 'apt-get dist-upgrade' command, which you _should_
run often.

I'd also add a vote for seeing if you can get USB media: it's a lot easier
to deal with these days, and more common.  It could also allow you to skip
putting an optical drive into your new machine if you don't otherwise need
it.

-- 
Giles
https://www.gilesorr.com/
giles...@gmail.com
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-01 Thread David Collier-Brown via talk 

On 01/03/18 12:36 PM, Anthony de Boer via talk wrote:

Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:

I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) 
installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not yet 
support live install with UEFI).

Note that they've gone to some effort to pack the stuff you're most
likely to need onto the first DVD (or onto the full-CD image to a
much-more-heavily-trimmed extent), so you should be able to get going
with only that.  The later discs are likely to go unused, or lightly
used.

If you're on a low-bandwidth connection, then a server running a caching
proxy like apt-cacher-ng or squid can be your friend.

He may need someone attached to a viable network to get the wodge of 
data to do an install, after which he can do updates by low-speed modem 
or mailing around DVDs.


--dave

--
David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify
System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest
dav...@spamcop.net   |  -- Mark Twain

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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-01 Thread Andrew Paolucci via talk 
Hey Steve,

I'm in the Toronto area and would be willing to burn and ship you the DVDs for 
cost, what to cite exactly which ones you want along with any other things? If 
you want I can purchase you a HDD and ship some other bandwidth intensive 
files/torrents.

Regards,
Andrew Paolucci

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On March 1, 2018 9:28 AM, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk  wrote:

> Greetings To GTALUG,
>
> I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run debian 
> Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell desktop PC with 
> MS Windows XP.
>
> * * *
> * * *
>
> I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) 
> installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not 
> yet support live install with UEFI).
>
> I need the installation DVDs because I use a very slow telephone-grade 
> dial-up line modem for my Internet connection, so a Linux installation via 
> network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up line with 
> the new debian Linux PC, at least for the first while. GTALUG advice put me 
> on to the idea of using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.)
>
> Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org but am concerned about 
> getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian customs duties, 
> that may be collected by courier delivering to the Canadian address from U.S.A
>
> * * *
> * * *
>
> Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux (LXDE) DVD 
> installation sets ??
>
> I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell Fibe, and 
> download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the DVDs myself, but 
> I prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes.
>
> Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially messy 
> detail of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install DVDs, greatly 
> appreciated !!
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Steve---
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-01 Thread Anthony de Boer via talk 
Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
> I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) 
> installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not 
> yet support live install with UEFI).

Note that they've gone to some effort to pack the stuff you're most
likely to need onto the first DVD (or onto the full-CD image to a
much-more-heavily-trimmed extent), so you should be able to get going
with only that.  The later discs are likely to go unused, or lightly
used.  

If you're on a low-bandwidth connection, then a server running a caching
proxy like apt-cacher-ng or squid can be your friend.

-- 
Anthony de Boer
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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-01 Thread Alex Volkov via talk 

Hey Steve,

In the last few years DVDs have fallen out of favour as a media of 
choice for sharing large files and it's likely to be difficult and not 
cost effective to obtain them.


First of all Debian DVD iso doesn't need to be installed from a DVD 
drive, you can just dd the image straight onto a usb drive --


( If you were to download dvd images from here -- 
https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/iso-dvd/)


$ dd if=debian-9.3.0-amd64-DVD-1.iso of=/dev/usb_physical_device

Any reasonably recent PC should be able too boot from the image.


If you are using debian as a general-purpose desktop it's likely that 
you wouldn't even need to use any other dvds as the first DVD contains 
most of the software.
Also you can try getting dldvd (dual-layer DVD) and bd (blue-ray disk 
images) with jigdo then you'd be able to fit even more packages on a usb 
key.


If you  have temporary access to a fast internet connection, you can 
create the whole debian mirror using reprepro 
(https://mirrorer.alioth.debian.org/) and various other tools 
(https://wiki.debian.org/DebianRepository/Setup) storing the files on a 
portable harddrive.


Installing this would work by booting off the first DVD image on an usb, 
then connecting & mounting portable harddrive then giving file url as a 
sources.list url 
(http://www.linuxwave.info/2009/04/adding-local-directory-to-apt.html)


Alex.

On 03/01/18 09:28, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:

*Greetings To GTALUG,*
I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run 
debian Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell 
desktop PC with MS Windows XP.

* * *
* * *
*I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) 
installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does 
not yet support live install with UEFI).*
I need the installation DVDs because I _use a very slow 
telephone-grade dial-up line modem for my Internet connection_, so a 
Linux installation via network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep 
using the dial-up line with the new debian Linux PC, at least for the 
first while. GTALUG advice put me on to the idea of using a USB 
dial-up modem with Linux.)
Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org 
 but am concerned about getting caught 
in snags with payment / collection of Canadian customs duties, that 
may be collected by courier delivering to the Canadian address from U.S.A

* * *
* * *
*Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux 
(LXDE) DVD installation sets ??*
I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell 
Fibe, and download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the 
DVDs myself, but I prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes.
Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially 
messy detail of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install 
DVDs, greatly appreciated *!!*

Best Regards,
*Steve*


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Re: [GTALUG] debian Linux -- Installation DVDs Full Set - Shipped To Canadian Destination ??

2018-03-01 Thread Lennart Sorensen via talk 
On Thu, Mar 01, 2018 at 09:28:47AM -0500, Steve Petrie, P.Eng. via talk wrote:
> Greetings To GTALUG,
> 
> I am starting to order the parts for building a new desktop PC to run debian 
> Linux as primary operating system. Replacing an ancient Dell desktop PC with 
> MS Windows XP.
> 
> * * *
> * * *
> 
> I'm looking for a source for full set of physical debian Linux (LXDE) 
> installation DVDs (NOT a live install, as I understand that Linux does not 
> yet support live install with UEFI).

My exeprience with the live installers is that they don't work very well
in general.

> I need the installation DVDs because I use a very slow telephone-grade 
> dial-up line modem for my Internet connection, so a Linux installation via 
> network is not feasible. (I plan to try to keep using the dial-up line with 
> the new debian Linux PC, at least for the first while. GTALUG advice put me 
> on to the idea of using a USB dial-up modem with Linux.)
> 
> Found a U.S.A.-side vendor www.shoplinuxonline.org but am concerned about 
> getting caught in snags with payment / collection of Canadian customs duties, 
> that may be collected by courier delivering to the Canadian address from U.S.A
> 
> * * *
> * * *
> 
> Does anyone know of a Canadian-side online seller of debian Linux (LXDE) DVD 
> installation sets ??

https://www.jbox.ca/product-category/computers-tablets/software/linux-cds-dvds/debian-cds-dvds/

> I could potentially beg use of a friend's Windows 10 setup on Bell Fibe, and 
> download the debian Linux LXDE) DVD image files and burn the DVDs myself, but 
> I prefer to avoid the hassle and probable mistakes.
> 
> Any thoughts from GTALUG members, on this piddling but potentially messy 
> detail of getting a full set of debian Linux (LXDE) install DVDs, greatly 
> appreciated !!

Why DVD and not use USB keys?

There is a place in canada that will sell DVD sets, but for a complete
13 disc set it is $45 which seems pretty crazy.  And that isn't even
the current version of Debian.

Certainly one option would be to get the 3 BD images with jigdo and dump
them onto 3 32GB USB keys (which you can pick up at costco for about
$36 for a 3pack).  Would be much faster than the DVDs to use, less hassle
too, and reusable in the future for other things, like the next version.

Of course you could probably get away with just one usb key with the
first BD since the software is sorted by popularity and you likely would
never need what is on the second and third BD.

-- 
Len Sorensen
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