Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

Hi Colin, On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 10:54:46AM +0200, Colin Smale wrote: > > You cant tell whether this access=private is okay to break, and the > > other not. > > "private" is not the same as "no". It simply means that the owner has > the right to decide who to admit, and the default is "no

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

May 24, 2020, 18:06 by dieterdre...@gmail.com: > > > sent from a phone > > >> On 24. May 2020, at 12:16, Mateusz Konieczny via talk >> wrote: >> >> I just added some example at >> >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access >> and improved existing one. >> >> Review, and improving

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

The problem with that is that moving examples after full specification will be very effective in scaring away people who are not experts. May 24, 2020, 15:16 by andrew.harv...@gmail.com: > More examples are very helpful, so than you, but in my opinion the examples > should go near the end, at

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

May 25, 2020, 02:56 by a...@thaw.de: > Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: > >> >> I just added some example at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access >> and improved existing one. >> >> Review, and improving edits (or comments here) would be welcomed. >> > > > I disagree with moving

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

On 2020-05-25 10:27, Florian Lohoff wrote: > A small and very vocal part of the German community proposes to tag > EVERY driveway - no matter if it has a gate or sign with access=private. > Somebody slipped stuff into the German access=private page which i > removed a while back as it had no

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

Hi Mateusz, On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 01:11:04AM +0200, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: > > At least thats very different in Germany. There is no such thing as > > "Stand your ground" in the US legalese. As long as you dont show > > clear intend of "out of bounds" e.g. fences, gates or signage >

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

On 24/05/2020 23:45, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: There are also many roads signed as "No HGVs except for access." It is tempting to tag them as "hgv=destination" but that doesn't cover the case where you are allowed to follow that route for many miles and make several

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

Hi, On 5/25/20 00:36, Arne Johannessen wrote: > The default motor_vehicle=* of Norwegian forest roads [1] by law [2] depends > on physical criteria such as tracktype=*, surface=*, smoothness=*, width=*. > The law makes this a judgement call in each and every case. [3] Same with cycling in

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: > > I just added some example at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access > and improved existing one. > > Review, and improving edits (or comments here) would be welcomed. I disagree with moving the Table Of Contents far from the top of the page. I

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

On 25 May 2020, at 01:45, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: > May 25, 2020, 00:36 by a...@thaw.de: >> >> I would argue that non-gated driveways are often closer to >> access=destination than they are to access=private. >> >> According to the wiki, private requires individual permission, which

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

May 25, 2020, 00:36 by a...@thaw.de: >> Is access=private supposed to be incorrect in either case? >> > > I would argue that non-gated driveways are often closer to access=destination > than they are to access=private. > > According to the wiki, private requires individual permission, which I

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

May 25, 2020, 00:45 by talk@openstreetmap.org: > > May 24, 2020, 23:54 by colin.sm...@xs4all.nl: > >> >> On 2020-05-24 23:16, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: >> >> >>> Can you give an example of such untaggable restriction? >>>   >>> >> In the UK there are many small roads signed as

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

May 24, 2020, 23:57 by f...@zz.de: > At least thats very different in Germany. There is no such thing as > "Stand your ground" in the US legalese. As long as you dont show > clear intend of "out of bounds" e.g. fences, gates or signage > its not a federal offense to walk on private property.

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 12:39:11AM +0200, Colin Smale wrote: > > Legally this is broken. Legally you may not enter the zone when > > your destination is not within that zone and there nothing like a > > distance based penalty within that area. > > > > So yes - there is a problem - But not within

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

May 24, 2020, 23:54 by colin.sm...@xs4all.nl: > > On 2020-05-24 23:16, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: > > >> Can you give an example of such untaggable restriction? >>   >> > In the UK there are many small roads signed as "Unsuitable for HGVs." Legally > you are allowed to drive your 44T

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

On 2020-05-25 00:16, Florian Lohoff wrote: > On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 11:54:02PM +0200, Colin Smale wrote: On 2020-05-24 > 23:16, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: > > Can you give an example of such untaggable restriction? > In the UK there are many small roads signed as "Unsuitable for HGVs."

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: > > From quick review I am unable to remember any actually existing > access restriction that would not be taggable. The default motor_vehicle=* of Norwegian forest roads [1] by law [2] depends on physical criteria such as tracktype=*, surface=*, smoothness=*,

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 11:54:02PM +0200, Colin Smale wrote: > On 2020-05-24 23:16, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: > > > Can you give an example of such untaggable restriction? > > In the UK there are many small roads signed as "Unsuitable for HGVs." > Legally you are allowed to drive your

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

Hi Mateusz, On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 11:16:14PM +0200, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: > > For me its missing at least 2 points: > > > > - The "Ground truth" we tag restrictions only when visibly assigned and > > verifyable. > > > Can you give an example of such untaggable restriction? > >

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

On 2020-05-24 23:16, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: > Can you give an example of such untaggable restriction? In the UK there are many small roads signed as "Unsuitable for HGVs." Legally you are allowed to drive your 44T truck down there, but you will almost certainly get stuck. How do we

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

Sorry, probably I could reduce number of edits. But note that you can collapse multiple edits into one - after opening specific page and clicking on "view history" you will be taken to https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:access=history There are two columns of round radio

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

May 24, 2020, 20:47 by f...@zz.de: > On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 12:10:41PM +0200, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: > >> I just added some example at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access >> and improved existing one. >> >> Review, and improving edits (or comments here) would be

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 08:47:38PM +0200, Florian Lohoff wrote: > For me its missing at least 2 points: > > - The "Ground truth" we tag restrictions only when visibly assigned and > verifyable. > - To use access restrictions as simple and minimal as possible. I put these in - I rephrased the

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 10:50:19PM +0200, Colin Smale wrote: > On 2020-05-24 20:47, Florian Lohoff wrote: > > > - The "Ground truth" we tag restrictions only when visibly assigned and > > verifyable. > > It is sufficient to say "verifiable". It does not always need to be > evidenced by a visible

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

On 2020-05-24 20:47, Florian Lohoff wrote: > - The "Ground truth" we tag restrictions only when visibly assigned and > verifyable. It is sufficient to say "verifiable". It does not always need to be evidenced by a visible sign - as long as another independent mapper could (easily) verify its

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 12:10:41PM +0200, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: > I just added some example at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access > and improved existing one. > > Review, and improving edits (or comments here) would be welcomed. > > Deliberately posting to talk to get

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

sent from a phone > On 24. May 2020, at 12:16, Mateusz Konieczny via talk > wrote: > > I just added some example at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access > and improved existing one. > > Review, and improving edits (or comments here) would be welcomed. it’s a lot of text, are you

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

24.05.2020, 15:42, "Dave F via talk" :As you done it over (far too) many edits, could you provide a comparison list of amendments here.DaveF. DaveF,simply compare latest article versions (about 13 edits by Mateusz made on may 24)

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

More examples are very helpful, so than you, but in my opinion the examples should go near the end, at least after the specification (so list of transport modes and possible values) 1. Introduction (as exists) 2. Full list of transport modes 3. List of possible values 4. Examples On Sun, 24 May

Re: [OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

As you done it over (far too) many edits, could you provide a comparison list of amendments here. DaveF. On 24/05/2020 11:10, Mateusz Konieczny via talk wrote: I just added some example at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access and improved existing one. Review, and improving edits

[OSM-talk] Examples at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access

I just added some example at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access and improved existing one. Review, and improving edits (or comments here) would be welcomed. Deliberately posting to talk to get review also from people less involved in tagging discussions. Thanks to Malenki and