Re: [OSM-talk] Build your own GPS receiver
On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 10:09 PM, Andrew Gregory andrew.greg...@gmail.com wrote: It's all down to your application. What do you want to do that you can't do on a $50 smartphone? Well, the first thing that I'd be looking for is performance... The GPS on the phones that I've used have not had great accuracy, or battery life either. The Galaxy Nexus that I have right now draws power faster than a standard 0.5A USB charger can deliver it when the GPS is on, and I've had no luck finding a car charger that will deliver more than that to the Nexus. Second, and actually probably more important, DIY is not always about doing it _cheaper_, it's about doing it _fun_. -- Jeff Ollie ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Build your own GPS receiver
On 2013-03-18 at 11:09:49 +0800, Andrew Gregory wrote: However, in terms of making your own receiver, I don't see the point unless it is for an extremely specialized task. The reason is cost. The GPS breakout board is ~$40. A Raspberry Pi is ~$35. That's already ~$75. Shipping not included. I can buy a GPS-enabled Android phone for ~$50. In my local supermarket! I could probably get something cheaper on ebay. I'm doing something similar with olimex components (and an arduino-like board instead of the raspberry). 12.95 EUR https://www.olimex.com/Products/Duino/AVR/OLIMEXINO-32U4/ 39.95 EUR https://www.olimex.com/Products/Modules/GPS/MOD-GPS/ 3.95 EUR https://www.olimex.com/Products/Modules/Interface/MOD-SDMMC/ 5.95 EUR https://www.olimex.com/Products/Power/BATTERY-LIPO1400mAh/ That's 62.8 EUR, which is in the range of the turn-on-and-forget GPS loggers (like the iBlue I had that is currently dying) I could find on amazon. Additional parts (just a bit of protoboard, headers and a switch) will come from my parts stash and fit in the 10-15% overhead that I allowed in the budget for the fun part of the project. :) The main advantage on an android phone [1]_ to me, is the fact that it can almost be operated while driving (hit the switch while stopped in traffic just before you decided to try a crazy alternative route, and it starts logging :) ) .. [1] which last time I've checked started closer to 100 EUR than 50EUR in our supermarkets :( Another advantage is the modularity: while I'm non using it for logging I can reuse the most expensive part (the GPS, of course) for additional prototypes / one-time projects. I also hope that by changing parts I will be able to use it for longer than my old logger lasted. -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Build your own GPS receiver
I have no problem with fun. I've had fun with GPS receivers in the past: http://www.scss.com.au/family/andrew/gps/rojone/ Here's a 1A car charger: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/12-24v-DC-1000mA-High-Power-Universal-USB-Mini-in-Car-Charger-Power-Adapter-Plug-/390524978880?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3var=hash=item5aed1a46c0 I should point out that whatever power supply you find for the Pi, will be just as useful for the Nexus. Both need minimum 5V 1A. Of course, developing your own power supply could all be part of the fun. For surveying I use an HTC Desire Z with a USB car charger (similar to the above) connected to a 12V SLA in my bicycle pannier. As with any standalone GPS (which includes the Nexus), accuracy is poor straight away, but greatly improves after a couple of minutes. Don't use Google Maps as your reference, as it allows non-GPS positioning. I use Vespucci (disclosure - I'm part of the Vespucci team), which only allows fine (GPS) positioning. Regards, Andrew On 18 March 2013 14:00, Jeffrey Ollie j...@ocjtech.us wrote: On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 10:09 PM, Andrew Gregory andrew.greg...@gmail.com wrote: It's all down to your application. What do you want to do that you can't do on a $50 smartphone? Well, the first thing that I'd be looking for is performance... The GPS on the phones that I've used have not had great accuracy, or battery life either. The Galaxy Nexus that I have right now draws power faster than a standard 0.5A USB charger can deliver it when the GPS is on, and I've had no luck finding a car charger that will deliver more than that to the Nexus. Second, and actually probably more important, DIY is not always about doing it _cheaper_, it's about doing it _fun_. -- Jeff Ollie -- Andrew ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Build your own GPS receiver
Hi Rob, On 17 March 2013 16:26, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, Going back a few years before GPS was widely available in pretty much everything bar the kitchen sink (please do post a link if you find a gps enabled sink :-) ) there was some discussion about making your own GPS receiver. If anyone is interested in taking this on as a nice weekend project, I have found that adafruit have a good guide for linking a GPS receiver to a Raspberry Pi. All components are reasonably priced and the guide covers everthing except running a RPi from a battery (google will help here). http://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-ultimate-gps-on-the-raspberry-pi/introduction I recently had a similar thought when my friend found this: http://emerythacks.blogspot.fr/2013/01/u-blox-pci-5s-cheap-gps-module-for-your.html It's an $8 ready to use GPS module. You could build a receiver with a battery, flash storage and some sort of display for under $15 with this. It won't be the best precision receiver but it also won't be much worse than current best unaugmented GPS-only receivers (with EGNOS/WAAS). Cheers ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Build your own GPS receiver
Am 18.03.2013 04:09, schrieb Andrew Gregory: It's all down to your application. What do you want to do that you can't do on a $50 smartphone? One problem of smartphones is that they are battery hungry and the software tends to shut down unexpectedly. With a dedicated gps logger, I can log one entire day without having to fear that the battery is low or that some software crash erased all my data. On the other hand, the problem with current dedicated gps logger is their absolute absence of status information: it does not show how long it is running, if they have a satellite lock, what their remaining battery is. Also, the data can only be retrieved with a proprietory software, which is really the worst. Also, the data storage isn’t usually sufficient for a 3 week holiday, so that you always need to have a notebook with you. I would really like to have a gps logger which a rudimentary display (e-ink would be nice) and a mini sd slot, where all the tracks are just saved as a gpx file, so that I can copy them to my pc without having to rely on any software. Also, if I insert a 4 gb card, I can let the receiver run an entire year. Well, building your own gps receiver will most likely have problems with the not-crashing part, but it would be fun nonetheless. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Build your own GPS receiver
On 18/03/13 11:04, Hans Schmidt wrote: Am 18.03.2013 04:09, schrieb Andrew Gregory: It's all down to your application. What do you want to do that you can't do on a $50 smartphone? One problem of smartphones is that they are battery hungry and the software tends to shut down unexpectedly. With a dedicated gps logger, I can log one entire day without having to fear that the battery is low or that some software crash erased all my data. On the other hand, the problem with current dedicated gps logger is their absolute absence of status information: it does not show how long it is running, if they have a satellite lock, what their remaining battery is. Also, the data can only be retrieved with a proprietory software, which is really the worst. Also, the data storage isn’t usually sufficient for a 3 week holiday, so that you always need to have a notebook with you. I would really like to have a gps logger which a rudimentary display (e-ink would be nice) and a mini sd slot, where all the tracks are just saved as a gpx file, so that I can copy them to my pc without having to rely on any software. Also, if I insert a 4 gb card, I can let the receiver run an entire year. Well, building your own gps receiver will most likely have problems with the not-crashing part, but it would be fun nonetheless. Maybe combine those two and have a dedicated GPS logger which you can connect to a smartphone to retrieve the data or get its current status. - Svavar Kjarrval signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Build your own GPS receiver
On 2013-03-18 at 12:04:54 +0100, Hans Schmidt wrote: Am 18.03.2013 04:09, schrieb Andrew Gregory: It's all down to your application. What do you want to do that you can't do on a $50 smartphone? One problem of smartphones is that they are battery hungry and the software tends to shut down unexpectedly. With a dedicated gps logger, I can log one entire day without having to fear that the battery is low or that some software crash erased all my data. I've heard that modern (decent) smartphones have managed to reach full-day battery autonomy; I don't know if that assumes not using it most of the time (and logging breaks the assumption). On the other hand, a simple device won't crash, and it will probably have a better gps module + antenna. I would really like to have a gps logger which a rudimentary display (e-ink would be nice) I have considered using a nokia 3310-like display: it's not e-ink, but it is low power and easily available for cheap. (e.g. 6.95 EUR https://www.olimex.com/Products/Modules/LCD/MOD-LCD3310/ ) and a mini sd slot, where all the tracks are just saved as a gpx file, so that I can copy them to my pc without having to rely on any software. If your GPS module speaks NMEA (which it should, if you want to be able to use it in a sane way) I'd recommend just copying it to the SD card: it takes less space than gpx, requires no interpretation on the device (something less than can crash / lose data) and it can be read by many programs on the PC, including gpsbabel, gpsprune and gpsd. Well, building your own gps receiver will most likely have problems with the not-crashing part, but it would be fun nonetheless. as long as the hardware (homemade solders etc.) works the software part can be made so simple that it can't fail :) -- Elena ``of Valhalla'' ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Build your own GPS receiver
Hi, On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 03:26:00PM +, Rob Nickerson wrote: Hi all, Going back a few years before GPS was widely available in pretty much everything bar the kitchen sink (please do post a link if you find a gps enabled sink :-) ) there was some discussion about making your own GPS receiver. If anyone is interested in taking this on as a nice weekend project, I have found that adafruit have a good guide for linking a GPS receiver to a Raspberry Pi. All components are reasonably priced and the guide covers everthing except running a RPi from a battery (google will help here). http://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-ultimate-gps-on-the-raspberry-pi/introduction Regards, Rob p.s. A quick look at the numbers suggest that this is quite a good GPS chip, but thoughts welcome if anyone knows any better. I'd rather go for getting your own OS running on a commercial GPS available e.g. the Garmins getting you DIY GPS receiver running is probably not that hard - but for what purpose? It'll neither be better on battery life, less waterproof, less ruggedized etc. The only part about mit GPSMap 60CSx is routing capability with OSM Data and not beeing able to input stuff e.g. small mapping tasks. So instead i'd have a look how to build your own OS with all the functionality and bring it onto an available hardware. Garmins are good at hardware and suck at software. So use their hardware and build a better OS - as it has been done for the Linksys WRTGs and Rockbox for the iRiver mp3 players. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Build your own GPS receiver
Florian, On 18 March 2013 14:32, Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de wrote: I'd rather go for getting your own OS running on a commercial GPS available e.g. the Garmins getting you DIY GPS receiver running is probably not that hard - but for what purpose? It'll neither be better on battery life, less waterproof, less ruggedized etc. Building your own Etrex is probably a waste of time from an OSM perspective but would still be fun for some of us especially if the accuracy was really good. This sort of module would also be great for someone to build a quadcopter to get aerial images where none exist or for other location based projects that big companies are not interested in. Kevin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Build your own GPS receiver
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 03:10:20PM +, Kevin Peat wrote: Building your own Etrex is probably a waste of time from an OSM perspective but would still be fun for some of us especially if the accuracy was really good. This sort of module would also be great for someone to build a quadcopter to get aerial images where none exist or for other location based projects that big companies are not interested in. Why would that be a waste of time? One could workaround e.g. replace the Garmin stuff and let the multitude of OSM tags be displayed, probably even with a user preference. One could enable true foot/bicycle/car routing and not the restricted garmin type of routing. One could use the etrex for actually making something like the keypadmapper3 but with a battery life of multiple days. For building a quadcopter something GPS module just buy a UBox Lea 6 module or something and be done. If its just a matter of getting a position there is a multitude of solutions. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Build your own GPS receiver
On 18 March 2013 15:20, Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de wrote: Why would that be a waste of time? One could workaround e.g. replace the Garmin stuff and let the multitude of OSM tags be displayed, probably even with a user preference... Wouldn't it be better to just start with an Android device and write a decent app to do this stuff, the affordable Garmin hardware seems pretty low powered with mostly small screens. Kevin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Build your own GPS receiver
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 03:50:53PM +, Kevin Peat wrote: On 18 March 2013 15:20, Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de wrote: Why would that be a waste of time? One could workaround e.g. replace the Garmin stuff and let the multitude of OSM tags be displayed, probably even with a user preference... Wouldn't it be better to just start with an Android device and write a decent app to do this stuff, the affordable Garmin hardware seems pretty low powered with mostly small screens. Show me a smartphone with the screen turned on, gps running which lasts more than 3 hours. You cant should amps into the phone as fast as the battery drains whereas my GPSMap 60Csx runs for multiple days on the same set of AA batteries. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Build your own GPS receiver
On 18 March 2013 16:18, Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de wrote: Show me a smartphone with the screen turned on, gps running which lasts more than 3 hours... You are right there, but I wasn't really thinking of a phone. I have a Nexus 7 + waterproof case and *if* the screen was brighter it would make a really good OSM device for hiking. I don't really care about 24 hour battery life as I can't walk for that long anyway. Kevin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Build your own GPS receiver
Where did you buy those magical batteries? Mine lasts 6 hours max with rechargables (if the temperature is above 15C). On 03/18/2013 05:18 PM, Florian Lohoff wrote: Show me a smartphone with the screen turned on, gps running which lasts more than 3 hours. You cant should amps into the phone as fast as the battery drains whereas my GPSMap 60Csx runs for multiple days on the same set of AA batteries. -- --- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Build your own GPS receiver
Hola, On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 10:09:50PM +0100, Cartinus wrote: Where did you buy those magical batteries? Mine lasts 6 hours max with rechargables (if the temperature is above 15C). 2200mAh NiMh rechargables. Not using Backlight. The 60Csx is rated with 18h with normal AA Alkali IIRC. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@zz.de signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Build your own GPS receiver
On 18/03/2013 14:32, Florian Lohoff wrote: I'd rather go for getting your own OS running on a commercial GPS available e.g. the Garmins Has anyone hacked the Garmin OS? Many things irritate me about the Oregon software, but not having a proper on/off switch for the back-light is just lazy. Dave F. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Build your own GPS receiver
The GPS module they're using is based on the MK3339, which I'm currently using in a commercial project. Very low power consumption and amazing performance. However, in terms of making your own receiver, I don't see the point unless it is for an extremely specialized task. The reason is cost. The GPS breakout board is ~$40. A Raspberry Pi is ~$35. That's already ~$75. Shipping not included. I can buy a GPS-enabled Android phone for ~$50. In my local supermarket! I could probably get something cheaper on ebay. So, for $25 less than the GPS+Pi I also get: battery operation, a touch-enabled colour screen, 5MP camera, Wi-Fi, 2G/3G mobile voice/data, Bluetooth, and easy USB connectivity to a PC. I'll probably also get a micro-SD slot. It's all down to your application. What do you want to do that you can't do on a $50 smartphone? Cheers, Andrew On 17 March 2013 23:26, Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all, Going back a few years before GPS was widely available in pretty much everything bar the kitchen sink (please do post a link if you find a gps enabled sink :-) ) there was some discussion about making your own GPS receiver. If anyone is interested in taking this on as a nice weekend project, I have found that adafruit have a good guide for linking a GPS receiver to a Raspberry Pi. All components are reasonably priced and the guide covers everthing except running a RPi from a battery (google will help here). http://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-ultimate-gps-on-the-raspberry-pi/introduction Regards, Rob p.s. A quick look at the numbers suggest that this is quite a good GPS chip, but thoughts welcome if anyone knows any better. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Andrew ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
