Re: Re-downloading all the mails, and the POP3 protocol
Title: Re: Re-downloading all the mails, and the POP3 protocol Hello Lüko, On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 18:29:51 +0100 GMT (27-Mar-19, 0:29 +0700 GMT), Lüko Willms wrote: Hello everybody, on Dienstag, 26. März 2019 at 15:20 Thomas Fernandez wrote re Re-downloading all the mails, and the POP3 protocol My suggestion: a) on the desktop, keep the number of days you keep messages on the server relative small; I do that already. 4 weeks = over 5,000 messages in my company account. b) on the laptop (I guess that you have activated the option "keep ALL messages on the server") use the mailbox inspector to retrieve messages, maybe activate the option "activate mailbox inspector automatically for every retrieve". With over 5,000 messages on the server, it is not practical to always use the mailbox inspector. So when after working 3 weeks at home with your desktop PC, and then go on the road with the laptop, the laptop will find 3 weeks of new messages which are new to the laptop, and will download those roughly 3'750 messages. That's correct. However, I use both machines daily. When I'm on the road during the day, I use my laptop, and when I arrive at home, I download all the messages from the day on my PC and continue working on the PC. The next morning, I turn on my laptop and download the communications that happened on PC and continue working on my laptop. The reason I keep messages on server for 4 weeks is that I travel (I am out of the country at least once a month), and trips have taken up to 4 weeks in the past. I want to have all messages on both machines. When a harddisk crashes (that's "when", not "if"), I can just make a backup from the other machines and restore on the new harddisk. That's what I wanted to make you understand by my longer explanations in my previous message. That's OK. Then I sit somewhere (usually in another country) and turn on the laptop to downloaed new messages, and TB! wants to download all messages again from the server. All I can do is wait until it has finished, the use "delete duplicates" and "compact folder". Downloading can take many hours if you are in a country with slow internet, such as Cambodia or Myanmar. BTW, the above is also a demonstration of how foolish the quoting with nested TABLEs is): I have no problem with TB!'s behaviour, except for the wide blue field there, which should be a small line. I usually make it thin with the mouse but left it wide here to demonstrate. -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 8.8.2 under Windows 7 6.1 Build 7601 Service Pack 1 Current beta is 8.7.0.14 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re-downloading all the mails, and the POP3 protocol
Hello everybody, on Dienstag, 26. März 2019 at 15:20 Thomas Fernandez wrote re Re-downloading all the mails, and the POP3 protocol My suggestion: a) on the desktop, keep the number of days you keep messages on the server relative small; I do that already. 4 weeks = over 5,000 messages in my company account. b) on the laptop (I guess that you have activated the option "keep ALL messages on the server") use the mailbox inspector to retrieve messages, maybe activate the option "activate mailbox inspector automatically for every retrieve". With over 5,000 messages on the server, it is not practical to always use the mailbox inspector. So when after working 3 weeks at home with your desktop PC, and then go on the road with the laptop, the laptop will find 3 weeks of new messages which are new to the laptop, and will download those roughly 3'750 messages. That's what I wanted to make you understand by my longer explanations in my previous message. Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany BTW, the above is also a demonstration of how foolish the quoting with nested TABLEs is): using: TheBat! 8.8.2.3 (BETA) OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB Current beta is 8.7.0.14 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re-downloading all the mails, and the POP3 protocol
Title: Re: Re-downloading all the mails, and the POP3 protocol Hello Lüko, On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 12:43:42 +0100 GMT (26-Mar-19, 18:43 +0700 GMT), Lüko Willms wrote: Hello everybody, on Sonntag, 24. März 2019 at 09:07 Thomas Fernandez wrote re Re-downloading all the mails It happens with automatic download, I hardly ever use F2. Only on the laptop that I travel with, not the PC at home. Isn't the status "READ" of each message stored in the POP3 client, and not the POP3 server? Then your laptop have a different list of "new" messages than your desktop PC. Correct. But I am talking only about the laptop, i.e. a single machine. As far as I can see, the POP3 server does not keep a status VIEWED. No, the server doesn't, but TB! does in the file ACCOUNT.M_R Somehow, either the data from that file gets lost, or TB! is not looking there. I cannot check the first, as I would have to backup this file daily to see whether something is amiss when the new download of all messages start. The second is possible, because my *.ABD files are also all over the place, currently in a directory that I had created for another purpose. No idea how the files got there. The POP3 server's response to the client's LIST command is the "scan listing" which "consists of the message-number of the message, followed by a single space and the exact size of the message in octets." The "message-number" is a sequential number of all messages in a "maildrop" assigned anew for each session, beginning with 1. This message number is referred to in the RETR (retrieve) and DELE (delete) commands from the client. I have done that manually decades ago, using telnet. I'm quite familiar with how POP3 works. Using the option command UIDL, the client can retrieve a list of unique ids a single message identified by message-number or all messages, with the UNIQUE-ID being a arbitrary server-determined string, consisting of one to 70 characters in the range 0x21 to 0x7E, which uniquely identifies a message within a maildrop and which persists across sessions. Correct; so why does TB! (on the same machine, mind you) sometimes suddenly forget all UIDs? If the POP3 client keeps track of those UNIQUE IDs, it can be sure not to re-download messages already seen. So I would think. And then, suddenly, TB! downloads not one or two, but always *all* the messages again. The file ACCOUNT.M_R is not read or not found or something. Again, I am talking about one machine, the laptop. That anything downloaded on the laptop will be downloaded later on the PC and vv. is clear, and it is desired (my way of backup). My suggestion: a) on the desktop, keep the number of days you keep messages on the server relative small; I do that already. 4 weeks = over 5,000 messages in my company account. b) on the laptop (I guess that you have activated the option "keep ALL messages on the server") use the mailbox inspector to retrieve messages, maybe activate the option "activate mailbox inspector automatically for every retrieve". With over 5,000 messages on the server, it is not practical to always use the mailbox inspector. PS: RFCs on POP3 : https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/std53 I am sure Ritlabs is aware of the RFCs. -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 8.8.2 under Windows 7 6.1 Build 7601 Service Pack 1 Current beta is 8.7.0.14 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re-downloading all the mails, and the POP3 protocol
Hello everybody, on Sonntag, 24. März 2019 at 09:07 Thomas Fernandez wrote re Re-downloading all the mails It happens with automatic download, I hardly ever use F2. Only on the laptop that I travel with, not the PC at home. Isn't the status "READ" of each message stored in the POP3 client, and not the POP3 server? Then your laptop have a different list of "new" messages than your desktop PC. As far as I can see, the POP3 server does not keep a status VIEWED. The POP3 server's response to the client's LIST command is the "scan listing" which "consists of the message-number of the message, followed by a single space and the exact size of the message in octets." The "message-number" is a sequential number of all messages in a "maildrop" assigned anew for each session, beginning with 1. This message number is referred to in the RETR (retrieve) and DELE (delete) commands from the client. Using the option command UIDL, the client can retrieve a list of unique ids a single message identified by message-number or all messages, with the UNIQUE-ID being a arbitrary server-determined string, consisting of one to 70 characters in the range 0x21 to 0x7E, which uniquely identifies a message within a maildrop and which persists across sessions. If the POP3 client keeps track of those UNIQUE IDs, it can be sure not to re-download messages already seen. As I said, I can't see a way the POP3 server could keep a list of messages wich are "new" for this POP3 account. It is only the POP3 client can know, which has to keep track of which messages have already been seen, but kept on the server. So, when several different POP3 clients access the same mail store, they do not have the same idea about what is a message already viewed, and which is not. Several different POP3 clients would have to synchronise the list of UNIQUE IDs in order to consider the same messages as "NEW" or "VIEWED". My suggestion: a) on the desktop, keep the number of days you keep messages on the server relative small; b) on the laptop (I guess that you have activated the option "keep ALL messages on the server") use the mailbox inspector to retrieve messages, maybe activate the option "activate mailbox inspector automatically for every retrieve". PS: RFCs on POP3 : https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/std53 Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.2.3 (BETA) OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB Current beta is 8.7.0.14 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re-downloading all the mails
Title: Re: Re-downloading all the mails Hello Ira, On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 11:40:25 -0700 GMT (26-Mar-19, 01:40 +0700 GMT), Ira wrote: Hello Thomas, Sunday, March 24, 2019, 1:08:26 AM, you wrote: Hello Ira, On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 00:08:55 -0700 GMT (24-Mar-19, 14:08 +0700 GMT), Ira wrote: Hello Thomas, Would be intersting to know whether he also travels a lot. In case you are still in contact with him. Never travels, never turns off the computer or the bat. Noted, thanks. So we need to look for something else. -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 8.8.2 under Windows 10.0 Build 17763 Current beta is 8.7.0.14 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re-downloading all the mails
Title: Re: Re-downloading all the mails Hello Thomas, Sunday, March 24, 2019, 1:08:26 AM, you wrote: Hello Ira, On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 00:08:55 -0700 GMT (24-Mar-19, 14:08 +0700 GMT), Ira wrote: Hello Thomas, Would be intersting to know whether he also travels a lot. In case you are still in contact with him. Never travels, never turns off the computer or the bat. -- Ira Current beta is 8.7.0.14 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re-downloading all the mails
Title: Re: Re-downloading all the mails Hello Lüko, On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 07:05:25 +0100 GMT (24-Mar-19, 13:05 +0700 GMT), Lüko Willms wrote: Hello everybody, on Sonntag, 24. März 2019 at 03:10 Thomas Fernandez wrote re Re-downloading all the mails >> Is it possible that the host is the common factor...? > One of the hosts with which it sometimes (every few months) happens in > GMX, the biggest internet provider in Europe. Yes, he uses the same. I have also one account with GMX using POP3, but I can't recall that TheBat! accidentally downloaded all remaining and as "read" marked mails from the server. Is there maybe a hidden key combination with F2 which downloads all messages from the POP3 server? And which could have been hit accidentally by the user? It happens with automatic download, I hardly ever use F2. Only on the laptop that I travel with, not the PC at home. -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 8.8.2 under Windows 10.0 Build 17763 Current beta is 8.7.0.14 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re-downloading all the mails
Title: Re: Re-downloading all the mails Hello Ira, On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 00:08:55 -0700 GMT (24-Mar-19, 14:08 +0700 GMT), Ira wrote: Hello Thomas, Friday, March 22, 2019, 9:01:08 PM, you wrote: Thomas> Ira, are you still here? Does your friend travel a lot? I am here and I can't say, he's not complained in a while. Would be intersting to know whether he also travels a lot. In case you are still in contact with him. -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 8.8.2 under Windows 10.0 Build 17763 Current beta is 8.7.0.14 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re-downloading all the mails
Title: Re: Re-downloading all the mails Hello Thomas, Friday, March 22, 2019, 9:01:08 PM, you wrote: Thomas> Ira, are you still here? Does your friend travel a lot? I am here and I can't say, he's not complained in a while. -- Ira Current beta is 8.7.0.14 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re-downloading all the mails
Hello everybody, on Sonntag, 24. März 2019 at 03:10 Thomas Fernandez wrote re Re-downloading all the mails >> Is it possible that the host is the common factor...? > One of the hosts with which it sometimes (every few months) happens in > GMX, the biggest internet provider in Europe. Yes, he uses the same. I have also one account with GMX using POP3, but I can't recall that TheBat! accidentally downloaded all remaining and as "read" marked mails from the server. Is there maybe a hidden key combination with F2 which downloads all messages from the POP3 server? And which could have been hit accidentally by the user? Cheers, Lüko Willms Frankfurt am Main Germany using: TheBat! 8.8.2.3 (BETA) OS: Windows 7(NT 6.1 Build 7601 - Service Pack 1) CPU: AMD amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4200+ MEM: 4097 MB Current beta is 8.7.0.14 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re-downloading all the mails
Hello Paul, On Sat, 23 Mar 2019 08:26:44 -0400 GMT (23-Mar-19, 19:26 +0700 GMT), Paul Van Noord wrote: > 3/23/2019 8:23 AM > I set a friend up with the Bat and he has this one occasional > annoying problem. Every once in awhile, The Bat decides to > download all the mail on the server instead of just the mail > since the last time the mail was downloaded. > He uses POP3 and has Keep Mail on server set to 5 days. I can confirm this, it has happened to me for several versions. Happened also to two of my friends. Please see my posting mid:1466693960.20180130091...@gmx.net dated 30 Jan 18. >>> It just happened again with this very email account. TF>> It has happened again with my company email with version 8.8.2. I also TF>> received an email from a friend with a lower version, who is currently TF>> in Baku with slow internet, and TB! wants to download all mails again. TF>> Nobody else on this list has confirmed it yet. What do my friend and I TF>> have in common, which might not be shared by the members of this list? TF>> - We both travel a lot do different countries, many of them developing TF>> countries. TF>> Can this somehow have anything to do with the hick-up? TF>> Ira, are you still here? Does your friend travel a lot? > Is it possible that the host is the common factor...? One of the hosts with which it sometimes (every few months) happens in GMX, the biggest internet provider in Europe. Yes, he uses the same. But it also sometimes happens with my company server in Thailand. If there is a misconfiguration, I'd like someone to point me into a direction, so that I can relay it to our sysad. But with this server, it also happens every few months. -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 8.8.2 under Windows 10.0 Build 17763 Current beta is 8.7.0.14 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Re-downloading all the mails
Hello Thomas, On Sun, 20 May 2018 10:09:01 +0700 GMT (20-May-18, 10:09 +0700 GMT), Thomas Fernandez wrote: > Hello list, > On Thu, 10 May 2018 06:35:59 +0700 GMT (10-May-18, 06:35 +0700 GMT), > Thomas Fernandez wrote: >> Hello Ira, >> On Wed, 9 May 2018 09:56:43 -0700 GMT (09-May-18, 23:56 +0700 GMT), >> Ira wrote: >>> I set a friend up with the Bat and he has this one occasional >>> annoying problem. Every once in awhile, The Bat decides to >>> download all the mail on the server instead of just the mail >>> since the last time the mail was downloaded. >>> He uses POP3 and has Keep Mail on server set to 5 days. >> I can confirm this, it has happened to me for several versions. >> Happened also to two of my friends. >> Please see my posting mid:1466693960.20180130091...@gmx.net dated 30 >> Jan 18. > It just happened again with this very email account. It has happened again with my company email with version 8.8.2. I also received an email from a friend with a lower version, who is currently in Baku with slow internet, and TB! wants to download all mails again. Nobody else on this list has confirmed it yet. What do my friend and I have in common, which might not be shared by the members of this list? - We both travel a lot do different countries, many of them developing countries. Can this somehow have anything to do with the hick-up? Ira, are you still here? Does your friend travel a lot? -- Cheers, Thomas. Message reply created with The Bat! 8.8.2 under Windows 10.0 Build 17763 Current beta is 8.7.0.14 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
