Re[2]: Help needed using the Bat! with screen reader
Hello Thomas, Thanks for referring me to the Jaws scripts. Unfortunately, I'm using a different screen reader callde WindowEyes, however, the Jaws scripts may give me a really good starting point for developing what Window Eyes calls "set" files. Like Jaws scripts, set files tell the screen reader how to behave within an application, i.e. what to read, what to ignore, what to say when certain graphics/colors present themselves, etc... Again, thanks. Wednesday, July 9, 2003, 11:44:53 PM, you wrote: TF> Hello Steve, TF> On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:16:41 -0400 GMT (10/07/03, 05:16 +0700 GMT), TF> Steve M. Sawczyn wrote: >> I am subscribed to a number of mailing lists resulting in about 700 >> Emails daily. TF> That's a lot! >> I went under view/view threads by/references standard, but can not >> tell if messages are actually grouped into threads. In Outlook, >> threads, or conversations as they like to call them, are shown by a >> little minus symbol to the left of the message listing. When the >> thread is expanded, the minus changes to a plus. Anyway, with my >> screen reader, I am not detecting any sort of symbol when I change >> to the thread view. TF> Are you using JAWS? There are some scripts that Thomas Boerrigter TF> wrote for Jaws in combination with The Bat a few years ago. I haven't TF> been on the German Jaws ML for a while, so I don't know whether it's TF> been updated. Anyway, here is the download URL, based on Jaws 3.7 and TF> The Bat! 1.53 (yeah, two years old): TF> http://www.boerrigter.de/thebat.zip TF> HTH. -- Best regards, Stevemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 1.62r | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Help needed using the Bat! with screen reader
Hello Steve, On Wed, 9 Jul 2003 18:16:41 -0400 GMT (10/07/03, 05:16 +0700 GMT), Steve M. Sawczyn wrote: > I am subscribed to a number of mailing lists resulting in about 700 > Emails daily. That's a lot! > I went under view/view threads by/references standard, but can not > tell if messages are actually grouped into threads. In Outlook, > threads, or conversations as they like to call them, are shown by a > little minus symbol to the left of the message listing. When the > thread is expanded, the minus changes to a plus. Anyway, with my > screen reader, I am not detecting any sort of symbol when I change > to the thread view. Are you using JAWS? There are some scripts that Thomas Boerrigter wrote for Jaws in combination with The Bat a few years ago. I haven't been on the German Jaws ML for a while, so I don't know whether it's been updated. Anyway, here is the download URL, based on Jaws 3.7 and The Bat! 1.53 (yeah, two years old): http://www.boerrigter.de/thebat.zip HTH. -- Cheers, Thomas. Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste. I come from a small town whose population never changed. Each time a woman got pregnant, someone left town. Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/5 under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build A using a Pentium P4 1.7 GHz, 128MB RAM Current version is 1.62r | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Help needed using the Bat! with screen reader
Hello Roel, THanks for replying to my post, I think I'm starting to get a better handle on how the bat works. Can I arrange the order in which columns are displayed essentially overriding the default thread view? I mean, will doing this cause messages not to be threaded properly? I now have a more basic question about replying -- I notice I have reply and reply to all. Is there an easy way to reply to someone directly rather than to the list? If so, I appologize for not using it. Again, thanks for all your help, Steve Wednesday, July 9, 2003, 8:34:40 PM, you wrote: R> Hi Steve R> On 9 Jul 2003 18:16:41 (my local time 10 jul 2003 00:16:41), Steve M. R> Sawczyn wrote: SMS>> sort those filtered messages into threads. I went under view/view SMS>> threads by/references standard, but can not tell if messages are SMS>> actually grouped into threads. R> Well, there are several clues: R> - when you press alt+1, or go through the menu, the threaded view is R> enabled for that folder R> - when you have threaded view enabled, there are a few ways to notice R> it: R> * you will notice a boxed '+' or boxed '-' as the parent messages R> for threads (those signs may be a graphic, as I couldn't find them R> in any of my fonts), however: a standalone message wont have R> either of these symbols R> * If you still have the default order for columns, you can notice a R> change in that order: it goes from "message flags, and so on" to R> "subject" and so on (mind you: only true for switching to R> non-threaded view to threaded-by-references) SMS>> When the thread is expanded, the minus changes to a plus. Anyway, SMS>> with my screen reader, I am not detecting any sort of symbol when SMS>> I change to the thread view. R> There's a change from 'boxed +' (which is unexpanded) to 'boxed -' R> (expanded) in the beginning of the 'subject column' (which is the R> first column if you thread by referencens) SMS>> How can I tell how many messages are in a thread? R> The total of messages in a thread (or subthread) are in the column R> 'total'. SMS>> Are threads actually colapsed R> Yes, when you change to a folder, all threads are collapsed. R> One exception: if the last message you viewed was within a thread, the R> thread is collapsed up to the level of the message you viewed. All R> subtrees that are not in the message path will be closed. R> Expand them all by using control * SMS>> I am having trouble figuring out if a message has been read, replied SMS>> to, forwarded, remains unread, etc... Is there a specifi graphic SMS>> in the bat which I should enable which would convey this SMS>> information? R> Read, Unread, Replied to, Forwarded, etc all use different graphics in R> the "message flags" column. SMS>> Essentially, I need to increase subject and the from fields as SMS>> they're the ones I don't want to have cut off. R> You described the way to do it :-) R> By increasing the number in the column view, you make the column R> larger. By changing the order of the columns, you also change the R> order the columns are presented. SMS>> Any help which anyone could offer would be much appreciated. I'm SMS>> sure I'll have more questions as I progress, but I'm very excited SMS>> about using the bat and think it'll be a great solution for me. R> Please, feel free to ask, we're here to help... -- Best regards, Stevemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 1.62r | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re[2]: Help needed using the Bat! with screen reader
Hello Allie, Thanks so much for your reply to my post. I'll play around with the labeling feature and see if I can get some of these graphics to speak properly. Being able to see the lines connecting threaded messages must be really interesting -- I've always thought that somehow illustrating the concepts of threads would help people understand how mailing lists function. I'm sure I'll have many questions as I continue my journey with the bat, but for now, I'll go and try to get things working based on your information. Again, thanks for your help. Steve Wednesday, July 9, 2003, 8:20:50 PM, you wrote: AM> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- AM> Hash: SHA1 AM> Steve M. Sawczyn, [SMS] wrote: SMS>> Greetings, I am a blind computer user who recently re-installed the SMS>> bat. I say re-installed because when I had last tried The bat, I SMS>> found that it didn't work well with my screen reader. A lot has SMS>> changed since then, both with the bat and with the screen reading SMS>> technology and I'm finding that the Bat is a lot more accessible to SMS>> blind users like myself. AM> This is good to know. :) SMS>> Be that as it may, I'm finding that I still have trouble accessing SMS>> parts of the program and am hoping that someone on this list might SMS>> be able to give me a hand. AM> Let's see. I'll give it a shot. SMS>> In Outlook, threads, or conversations as they like to call SMS>> them, are shown by a little minus symbol to the left of the message SMS>> listing. When the thread is expanded, the minus changes to a plus. SMS>> Anyway, with my screen reader, I am not detecting any sort of SMS>> symbol when I change to the thread view. AM> The symbols are actually there. AM> When threading by references: AM> - A plus sign is in front of a message starting a collapsed thread or AM>sub-thread. AM> - A minus sign is in front of each message within an expanded thread AM>and they're each connected by a line. AM> When the thread by subject: AM> - A plus sign is in front of messages starting collapsed threads. AM> - A minus sign is in front of messages starting an expanded thread. The AM>other messages in the thread are connected by broken lines. AM> It's a bummer that you can't see this. SMS>> How can I tell how many messages are in a thread? AM> If you open the column view configuration panel, you'll see columns that AM> can be added. Two of them are 'Total Messages' and 'Unread Messages'. AM> These are included by default in the column settings when in threaded AM> by references view. AM> The 'Total Message' column displays the total number of messages within AM> a thread or subthread. AM> The 'Unread Messages' column displays the total number of unread AM> messages within a thread or sub-thread. SMS>> Are threads actually colapsed, or does the bat handle them SMS>> differently than Outlook in that respect? Are there keyboard SMS>> commands which might assist me with thread navigation? AM> Yes. AM> CTRL-* expands all threads. AM> CTRL-Shift-* collapses all threads. This can take a while to occur in AM> threaded mode when there are a lot of messages in the folder. AM> CTRL-Alt- moves you to the next unread message within a AM> thread. When all unread messages within the thread are read, it will AM> move you to the next unread message in subsequent threads. It does so AM> working downwards in the threaded message list and when it reaches the AM> end of the list, it starts from the beginning again. AM> CTRL-Alt- moves to to the previously unread message in a AM> thread. I hardly use this one. AM> Alt- moves you to the previously read message. AM> Alt- moves you to more recently viewed messages, i.e., the AM> opposite of Alt-Right. This allows you to browse recently read messages, AM> even though they may be scattered among threads. SMS>> I am having trouble figuring out if a message has been read, SMS>> replied to, forwarded, remains unread, etc... In outlook, this SMS>> information is represented with a graphical symbol which I can SMS>> "label." AM> TB! does a similar thing. The 'message flags' column displays this AM> graphical symbol, so be sure that this column is enabled in your message AM> list display. When viewing threads by references, it's the second column AM> from the left when using the default column configuration for reference AM> threading view. AM> The graphical symbol changes when the message is read, replied to, AM> forwarded etc. The graphical symbol changes in a way that by looking at AM> it I can tell a message was read, replied to and forwarded. There are AM> separate graphical symbols to show these combinations. SMS>> Lastly, for now, I have a question about column sizing. I went SMS>> into column view and saw that I could adjust the size of columns by SMS>> entering a number i.e. 150 next to subject. What is this number SMS>> actually referencing? AM> It references the width of the selected column in pixels. SMS>> Also, is there
Re: Help needed using the Bat! with screen reader
Hi Steve On 9 Jul 2003 18:16:41 (my local time 10 jul 2003 00:16:41), Steve M. Sawczyn wrote: SMS> sort those filtered messages into threads. I went under view/view SMS> threads by/references standard, but can not tell if messages are SMS> actually grouped into threads. Well, there are several clues: - when you press alt+1, or go through the menu, the threaded view is enabled for that folder - when you have threaded view enabled, there are a few ways to notice it: * you will notice a boxed '+' or boxed '-' as the parent messages for threads (those signs may be a graphic, as I couldn't find them in any of my fonts), however: a standalone message wont have either of these symbols * If you still have the default order for columns, you can notice a change in that order: it goes from "message flags, and so on" to "subject" and so on (mind you: only true for switching to non-threaded view to threaded-by-references) SMS> When the thread is expanded, the minus changes to a plus. Anyway, SMS> with my screen reader, I am not detecting any sort of symbol when SMS> I change to the thread view. There's a change from 'boxed +' (which is unexpanded) to 'boxed -' (expanded) in the beginning of the 'subject column' (which is the first column if you thread by referencens) SMS> How can I tell how many messages are in a thread? The total of messages in a thread (or subthread) are in the column 'total'. SMS> Are threads actually colapsed Yes, when you change to a folder, all threads are collapsed. One exception: if the last message you viewed was within a thread, the thread is collapsed up to the level of the message you viewed. All subtrees that are not in the message path will be closed. Expand them all by using control * SMS> I am having trouble figuring out if a message has been read, replied SMS> to, forwarded, remains unread, etc... Is there a specifi graphic SMS> in the bat which I should enable which would convey this SMS> information? Read, Unread, Replied to, Forwarded, etc all use different graphics in the "message flags" column. SMS> Essentially, I need to increase subject and the from fields as SMS> they're the ones I don't want to have cut off. You described the way to do it :-) By increasing the number in the column view, you make the column larger. By changing the order of the columns, you also change the order the columns are presented. SMS> Any help which anyone could offer would be much appreciated. I'm SMS> sure I'll have more questions as I progress, but I'm very excited SMS> about using the bat and think it'll be a great solution for me. Please, feel free to ask, we're here to help... -- Der Immer Jodelende Schweizer In Lederhosen Roel [EMAIL PROTECTED] Zum Antworten bitte Lederhosen entfernen $ grep "beer" /dev/fridge > mouth Current version is 1.62r | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Help needed using the Bat! with screen reader
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Steve M. Sawczyn, [SMS] wrote: SMS> Greetings, I am a blind computer user who recently re-installed the SMS> bat. I say re-installed because when I had last tried The bat, I SMS> found that it didn't work well with my screen reader. A lot has SMS> changed since then, both with the bat and with the screen reading SMS> technology and I'm finding that the Bat is a lot more accessible to SMS> blind users like myself. This is good to know. :) SMS> Be that as it may, I'm finding that I still have trouble accessing SMS> parts of the program and am hoping that someone on this list might SMS> be able to give me a hand. Let's see. I'll give it a shot. SMS> In Outlook, threads, or conversations as they like to call SMS> them, are shown by a little minus symbol to the left of the message SMS> listing. When the thread is expanded, the minus changes to a plus. SMS> Anyway, with my screen reader, I am not detecting any sort of SMS> symbol when I change to the thread view. The symbols are actually there. When threading by references: - A plus sign is in front of a message starting a collapsed thread or sub-thread. - A minus sign is in front of each message within an expanded thread and they're each connected by a line. When the thread by subject: - A plus sign is in front of messages starting collapsed threads. - A minus sign is in front of messages starting an expanded thread. The other messages in the thread are connected by broken lines. It's a bummer that you can't see this. SMS> How can I tell how many messages are in a thread? If you open the column view configuration panel, you'll see columns that can be added. Two of them are 'Total Messages' and 'Unread Messages'. These are included by default in the column settings when in threaded by references view. The 'Total Message' column displays the total number of messages within a thread or subthread. The 'Unread Messages' column displays the total number of unread messages within a thread or sub-thread. SMS> Are threads actually colapsed, or does the bat handle them SMS> differently than Outlook in that respect? Are there keyboard SMS> commands which might assist me with thread navigation? Yes. CTRL-* expands all threads. CTRL-Shift-* collapses all threads. This can take a while to occur in threaded mode when there are a lot of messages in the folder. CTRL-Alt- moves you to the next unread message within a thread. When all unread messages within the thread are read, it will move you to the next unread message in subsequent threads. It does so working downwards in the threaded message list and when it reaches the end of the list, it starts from the beginning again. CTRL-Alt- moves to to the previously unread message in a thread. I hardly use this one. Alt- moves you to the previously read message. Alt- moves you to more recently viewed messages, i.e., the opposite of Alt-Right. This allows you to browse recently read messages, even though they may be scattered among threads. SMS> I am having trouble figuring out if a message has been read, SMS> replied to, forwarded, remains unread, etc... In outlook, this SMS> information is represented with a graphical symbol which I can SMS> "label." TB! does a similar thing. The 'message flags' column displays this graphical symbol, so be sure that this column is enabled in your message list display. When viewing threads by references, it's the second column from the left when using the default column configuration for reference threading view. The graphical symbol changes when the message is read, replied to, forwarded etc. The graphical symbol changes in a way that by looking at it I can tell a message was read, replied to and forwarded. There are separate graphical symbols to show these combinations. SMS> Lastly, for now, I have a question about column sizing. I went SMS> into column view and saw that I could adjust the size of columns by SMS> entering a number i.e. 150 next to subject. What is this number SMS> actually referencing? It references the width of the selected column in pixels. SMS> Also, is there a way, not dragging, which I could use to resize SMS> columns? Yes. When the column configuration panel is open, the list of columns on the right indicates those columns which are actually being used. Select each and then adjust the pixel width that appears. I hope this helps. Be sure to ask if you need further assistance and good luck! - -- -= allie_M =- | List Moderator _ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: PGP SDK 3.0.2 iQA/AwUBPwyxY1fJ62ArBxfiEQLh5gCcCL/kRmuM9z/sNdX/MRZQ+1rLqHwAoIk/ Dw+DFQhhWMHJAnP3plpQIlxC =FMzd -END PGP SIGNATURE- Current version is 1.62r | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Help needed using the Bat! with screen reader
Greetings, I am a blind computer user who recently re-installed the bat. I say re-installed because when I had last tried The bat, I found that it didn't work well with my screen reader. A lot has changed since then, both with the bat and with the screen reading technology and I'm finding that the Bat is a lot more accessible to blind users like myself. Be that as it may, I'm finding that I still have trouble accessing parts of the program and am hoping that someone on this list might be able to give me a hand. I am subscribed to a number of mailing lists resulting in about 700 Emails daily. I have filtering set up to appropriately filter messages into folders by list and, my thinking was then to further sort those filtered messages into threads. I went under view/view threads by/references standard, but can not tell if messages are actually grouped into threads. In Outlook, threads, or conversations as they like to call them, are shown by a little minus symbol to the left of the message listing. When the thread is expanded, the minus changes to a plus. Anyway, with my screen reader, I am not detecting any sort of symbol when I change to the thread view. How can I tell how many messages are in a thread? Are threads actually colapsed, or does the bat handle them differently than Outlook in that respect? Are there keyboard commands which might assist me with thread navigation? I am having trouble figuring out if a message has been read, replied to, forwarded, remains unread, etc... In outlook, this information is represented with a graphical symbol which I can "label." Labeling is essentially a process whereby I tell the screen reader, when this graphic is seen, say "read" when this graphic is seen, say "unread" etc... Once the screen reader has this information, it will tell me the correct message status. Is there a specifi graphic in the bat which I should enable which would convey this information? Lastly, for now, I have a question about column sizing. I went into column view and saw that I could adjust the size of columns by entering a number i.e. 150 next to subject. What is this number actually referencing? Also, is there a way, not dragging, which I could use to resize columns? Essentially, I need to increase subject and the from fields as they're the ones I don't want to have cut off. Any help which anyone could offer would be much appreciated. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I progress, but I'm very excited about using the bat and think it'll be a great solution for me. -- Best regards, Steve mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Current version is 1.62r | "Using TBUDL" information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
