hannels touched on in the spectre paper
are not fixable, such as power consumption and EMI generation;
fortunately, they are significantly harder to read from software.
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ad it anytime it wants with a simple load anyway.".
The problem is also failure to roll back _all_ side effects when
annulling speculative execution. (To be sure, even if that were done
it wouldn't fix quite the whole problem; closing one side-channel
doesn't necessarily close other side-cha
Spectre targets other things (I've seen
branch prediction mentioned) to leak information around protection
barriers.
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ce at the kernel/user boundary) takes a pointer-to-two-ints (a
la socketpair) rather than expecting to get the ints via two return
values from the syscall.
That looks like one difference, from the diffs, and it also is pretty
much exactly what the stated problem is.
/~\ The ASCII
> http://netbsd.org/~kamil/patch-00039-obsolete-SYS_pipe.txt
I see no pipe2(2), nor change from pipe(2) to pipe(3) (with an xref to
pipe2(2)), both of which, it seems to me, should be part of this.
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still not MPSAFE. (I've commented the places I
noticed that depend on the giantlock for correctness; there are
doubtless others I haven't noticed.)
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the former would be.
> In any case, neither __insn_barrier nor volatile is sufficient in the
> multiprocessor model,
Not sufficient, true, but necessary (though, depending on the
implementations of things like C and mutexes, possibly implicitly
provided).
/~\ The ASCII
at anything above splsoftclock(), but I'm not sure enough to change it,
especially since that's debugging code. (I suspect it arguably should
use an SPL_HIGH spin mutex, though you've been saying in its current
state this driver runs giantlocked so there is little immediate
practical difference.)
> ddb's lock == kernel's mutex_t
Good. Thanks.
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t
and am about to test it) in a new2/ directory in the anonymous ftp area
I mentioned upthread.
Many thanks once again.
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ow who holds it; I'm not sure how to find out. I should
>> probably go peek under the hood.
> With LOCKDEBUG, if you know the lock address you can use `show lock'
> in ddb.
ddb's lock == kernel's kmutex_t? Or do I need to work out the address
of the mutex's mtx_lock, or
" paradigm is
all that good a one for my anticipated use.
Rather than replace the lpt driver entirely, I had it grow another flag
bit in the device minor number: 0x100 indicates this `raw' mode.
As for the code
ftp.rodents-montreal.org:/mouse/misc/lpt/ holds the code. base/ has
the
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etc),
and only when generated from those harwdare traps (the code is in
trapsignal()). Thus, the nested signal will always kill the process
(usually with a coredump) and there is no "when it returns".
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elf to those cases, under a few
reasonable assumptions about the hardware and when/how it traps and
what returning to userland without delivering the signal does).
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>> I don't know. I have never used bluetooth at all, [...]
> Does that mean that you're a wired mouse, or do use USB and a dongle
> and some proprietary protocol?
I'm a wired Mouse. :)
> Sorry ... that was just impossible to resist.
Nor would I say you should have resisted.
up in ifconfig, and there's nothing
analogous, I guess I'd be inclined to change one of those.
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nt with neither of the above, though the
details would vary.
As for a list of interfaces? Do what ifconfig -l does and then filter
based on type, would be my raction.
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hile I know a good deal less
about them, I think SSDs have some related-but-different issues.)
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er access?
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0 filesystem of the same size with easily identifiable content,
to see if any of that content appears in the affected domU filesystem?
dholland's identification of the overwrite data as inodes certainly
does feel provocative, but I'm not sure what to make of it.
/~\ The ASCII
ck shouldn't care.
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rs (the superblock gets ovewritten heavily) and
sysadmins a significant fraction of whom were competent to do things
like manually repair damaged filesystems.
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ck and left untouched
> thereafter.
They are generated by _newfs_ and left untouched thereafter.
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>> Disabling user opens, by any means, would make such things
>> significantly more difficult.
> Hmm, indeed. In the end we don't realy care as long as that open
> does not change the serial communication parameters.
I'm not sure even that is good. I have at least one Su
ed off, but the keyboard is,
for whatever reason, still sounding).
Disabling user opens, by any means, would make such things
significantly more difficult.
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e a separate bus_dma implementation of its own) leads me to think
it has no such issues; all POSTREAD does there is copy from the bounce
buffer (if the transfer is bounced) and issue an lfence memory barrier.
(Hmm, I wonder if the memory barrier needs to be before the memcpy)
/~\ The ASCII
le until the whole transfer is finished?
For my purposes, unelss amd64 is such a platform, I'm willing to write
off portability to such machines. Is there any way to detect them from
within the driver? I could just ignore the issue, but I'd prefer to
give an error at attach time.
/~\ The ASCII
?).
My impression is that bus_dma is pretty stable, and, thus, version
doesn't matter much. But, in case it matters, 5.2 on amd64.
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mation too.
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his prekern. I just mean I would really like to see reboots
cut out the time between the old kernel deciding to reboot and the
bootloader loading the new kernel. The trip back through the BIOS can,
and on some of my machines does, turn what could be a fifteen- or
thirty-second reboot into a mul
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to help me make sense of it.
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> A secure system is also a system which is simple.
That ship sailed long ago, back around "options LKM" time. Indeed,
security is most of why I turn that off in my kernels (MODULAR too, for
OS revs recent enough to have it).
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
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fast (they don't do _anything_ fast), and not in single
instructions, but so what? Even a sparc64 machine can't do a
general-purpose 64-bit add in a single instruction unless both inputs
are already in registers and leaving the output in a register is
acceptable.
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\
d64 and i386 are under amd64 kernels.
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quot;. If not, "which
emulation is it using?" may be close enough to be useful, and is easy
to answer, though perhaps somewhat inconvenient (ktrace writes a record
with the emulation type; with no tracing points turned on that should
be all it writes).
/~\ The ASCII
estion, but then I realized that, depending on the
answer to the above, that may not be true.
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o userland; sparc32 userland under sparc64 kernel
needs elf32 but not elf64)
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ooking into the possibility that this is another manifestation
of the same underlying problem, whatever it was.
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to
continue to support the current semantics.
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gh easier to implement to have provoked
difference
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hat's not actually what's going on here,
but that's what it looks like to me. Perhaps I'm missing something.
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show
EROFS when attempted on a read-only filesystem; in that case, I think
it's true.
Though, of course, if you don't care about the current semantics
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e of those decade-plus-old semantics. Your first email left me
thinking it was the latter. If it's actually the former, most of what
I wrote is irrelevant and I have little-to-nothing to say on the
subject, since I'm not familiar with the Plan 9 semantics.
/~\ The ASCII
ghout, that is covered by atomicity; it's really relevant only in
case of a crash, and then can be only a best-effort attempt, since
crashes can involve arbitrary corruption of just about anything.
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rename("x","y")
succeeds, "y" should then refer to the file "x" used to refer to, which
that violates.
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y_ cross-building.
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:-)
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the 4th argument and the prefetchable bit, it sets
>> BUS_SPACE_MAP_PREFETCHABLE only when both bits are set.
doesn't sound correct to me, in view of the devices mentioned upthread
that actually are prefetchable but which don't set the prefetchable BAR
bit: they won't get prefetch under plan A.
I wouldn't assume without testing.
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defense.
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ally help in practice?)
(3) Do you maybe want to log something, and/or print to the process's
tty and/or the console, so that users whose programs start mysteriously
crashing have at least a fighting chance of figuring out why?
/~\ The ASCII Mouse
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X Aga
, but, if you could relocate
everything in kernel space periodically, say, every second, it could
_significantly_ increase the work factor for exploitation.
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flush the I$).
Well, you need something. I'm not sure how fair "memory barriers" is
as a term for cache pushes/flushes.
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ot broken - or broken worse
- in between the versions I use and the versions you looked at.
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this discussion?
Of course, those too are generally arch-specific.
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I never ran into (especially since I'm pretty
sure I never ran real 4.3 on anything but a VAX).
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> The only reason I know for mapping address zero [...]
> Anyway mmap() without MAP_FIXED should never return NULL.
Perhaps it's time to implement null pointers as something other than
all-bits-zero?
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which will need to be paid back down the
road upon encountering a machine where 32 bits is not a convenient data
size.)
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indeed work.
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ve some clue what the concepts
they're talking about are. (Reference documentation tends ot be like
that.)
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y seem to
be at the heart of my confusion here
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ssues with the ugen(4) driver.
Well, unless it lets me get hold of interface 2 I doubt it will
actually help much here, but it won't hurt to try.
I'll ping you offlist.
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if they'd help. But I suspect
there's just something simple I'm not getting
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d fear that.
To whoever suggested vether(4) - jnemeth, I think - was getting rid of
tap(4) any part of what you meant?
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that bridge should not, conceptually, be a network
interface at all; I suspect it was done as a network interface simply
because that got a lot of infrastructure for free - and, if it works to
put an address on the bridge interface itself, because that part of it
_should_ be a network interface.
/~\ The AS
y transit and not
> have to worry about acting as both transit and endpoint.
I don't see why bridge has to act as endpoint even now. (I suspect
this is due to whatever I'm missing that leads to my first question,
above)
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to pass the accurate data to the OS, but that's often possible
only with cooperation of the hardware maker. It's also possible the
hardware has a binary "emergency over-temperature" sensor that's
accurate enough to power down based on, and a less-accurate temperature
sensor the OS can access
etBSD's softint design. But
then, I'm not convinced anyone truly designed it, rather than it just
growing by accretion since softints were created (by UCB?).
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would do a damn thing with the
results? Of course I don't care enough. NetBSD has abandonded me and
my use cases; why shouldn't I reciprocate?
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that support IP over
serial links too.)
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than half my x86 machines are not the
former. (Admittedly, most of that more than half are incapable, for
other reasons, of taking enough RAM to have any use for PAE.)
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for
passing to (say) qsort, thereby fixing the problem once, for all uses,
rather than depending on each called thing being fixed separately.
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, I can have a stab at answering that question. (I know a few
of the things, such as there is an exactly-8-bit type, but I feel
fairly sure I don't know them all; I'm even now still discovering such
things occasionally.)
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there _is_ something
wrong, at the language level, with gcc's version. Or did I misread?
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tell it to make nil pointers all-0-bits but break the assumption that
int has no padding bits in it.
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worrying about how porky gcc is, sooner or later you'll
get irritated enough to write your own...
True. That it will ever happen, though, depends on a bunch of
assumptions which are looking less and less plausible these years.
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with their incorrect assumptions.
As for whether binary-compat code should provide a \0, that depends on
the extent to which binary compat is supposed to be compatible even in
respects that have never been promised. I could argue that either way.
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the line.
I'm sure some-to-all of those provoke who cares about that?
reactions, but they all are things that have broken something at some
layer for me, that have led to less-than-smooth version changes.
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broken compatability in some cases even for those.)
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- it typically improves
performance - to have multiple workers serving requests. NFS, as
mentioned above, is a fairly good example (in these respects).
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been out-of-spec since the day NetBSD decided it was
going to use C99 rather than some older version of C; it's just that
only now is that out-of-spec-ness actually biting anyone. (That
decision may have been implicit in a compiler version change.)
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wasted is small enough to be unimportant...in most cases.)
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.
Again, you're ignoring the struct-valued lvalue expressions involved,
focusing instead on the member-reference expressions containing them.
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going to ask my go-to C reference person
to check my reading on this point).
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)
overrides 6.5 #7 (the anti-alias rule quoted upthread). (My own guess
would be that it does.)
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perform certain accesses to values.
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to see details to do more
than take guesses, though, of course.
but of course anonymous unions aren't supported until C11.
Or gcc; I think gcc had anonymous unions before C11, didn't it?
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off getting broken. I do not like
C's type sloppiness for the most part
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of the file?
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. But some of the arguments
kre has presented here do not, IMO, hold water.
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