Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-29 Thread Scott Kostyshak
On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Arthur Reutenauer arthur.reutena...@normalesup.org wrote: Taking Waluyo off the discussion, as it does not seem necessary to involve him in this issue that needs to be addressed by the developers. To Arthur and Mojca regarding why do I expect bahasa to work

Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-28 Thread Waluyo Adi Siswanto
Dear All, Actually Bahasa is not synonym of Indonesian language. The OFFICIAL language used in Indonesia is Bahasa Indonesia or in English Indonesian The OFFICIAL language used in Malaysia is Bahasa Melayu or in English Malay The word Bahasa in Bahasa Indonesia means language Since there

Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-27 Thread Arthur Reutenauer
My question would be: why do you expect bahasa to work at all? It is at best ambiguous, as it could also mean Bahasa Malaysia, already supported by both Babel and Polyglossia (and as Mojca points out, many other languages can use Bahasa in their names too). Arthur

Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-27 Thread Philip Taylor
Arthur Reutenauer wrote: My question would be: why do you expect bahasa to work at all? It is at best ambiguous, as it could also mean Bahasa Malaysia, already supported by both Babel and Polyglossia (and as Mojca points out, many other languages can use Bahasa in their names too). The

Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-27 Thread Dominik Wujastyk
Yes, from the point of view of historical phonology, bahasa is derivable from Sanskrit bhāṣā (=भाषा) or perhaps Pali bhāsā (भासा). From the eighth century on, Buddhism and Brahmanical religion were a strong influence in the Indonesian islands, right up to the time of the widespread establishment

Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-27 Thread Jörg Knappen
. November 2013 um 13:40 Uhr Von:Arthur Reutenauer arthur.reutena...@normalesup.org An:About TeX hyphenation patterns. tex-hyphen@tug.org Betreff:Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian? My question would be: why do you expect bahasa to work at all? It is at best ambiguous

Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-27 Thread Arthur Reutenauer
The Universe of Discourse is the names of languages, not the set of English nouns. Yes, and bahasa is not the name of a language. As Khaled pointed out, it is almost the exact equivalent of extracting the word language out of the phrase English language, and expect things to work.

Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-27 Thread Jonathan Kew
On 27/11/13 14:30, Arthur Reutenauer wrote: The Universe of Discourse is the names of languages, not the set of English nouns. Yes, and bahasa is not the name of a language. Actually, it may be. Yes, it is clearly a Malay word (derived from Sanskrit or Pali or whatever...) meaning

Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-27 Thread Philip Taylor
Jonathan Kew wrote: Actually, it may be. Yes, it is clearly a Malay word (derived from Sanskrit or Pali or whatever...) meaning language, but in English it can be used by itself as a language name. As the Oxford English Dictionary defines it:[1] Bahasa, n. The variety of Malay used as

Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-27 Thread Jonathan Kew
On 27/11/13 15:01, Philip Taylor wrote: Jonathan Kew wrote: Actually, it may be. Yes, it is clearly a Malay word (derived from Sanskrit or Pali or whatever...) meaning language, but in English it can be used by itself as a language name. As the Oxford English Dictionary defines it:[1]

Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-27 Thread Arthur Reutenauer
Had you said that in the first place, rather than the very confrontational 'why do you expect bahasa to work at all ?' This was not intended to be confrontational. I really would like to know the answer to that question, as it is important to understand what users expect from TeX's language

Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-27 Thread Scott Kostyshak
On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Scott Kostyshak skost...@lyx.org wrote: On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 10:59 PM, Scott Kostyshak skost...@lyx.org wrote: Compiling the attached document gives the following error on TeX Live 2013: luatex-hyphen: no entry in language.dat.lua for this language: bahasa

Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-27 Thread Dominik Wujastyk
If you ask an Indonesian what language s/he speaks, s/he'll answer Bahasa Indonesia. I believe. Can we check? I'm remember a trip there in 1984. But if I'm right, then that kind of evidence should count strongly for identifying it as a proper noun phrase. Dominik ​​

Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-27 Thread Jonathan Kew
On 27/11/13 19:21, Scott Kostyshak wrote: Finally, on the question about discrimination, I understand that assuming bahasa to mean Indonesian could be discriminatory, I wouldn't use the term discriminatory about this; rather, I'd just say it might be potentially ambiguous. but couldn't

Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-27 Thread Philip Taylor
Jonathan Kew wrote: On 27/11/13 19:21, Scott Kostyshak wrote: There appear to be 742 languages of Indonesia [1]. Are those languages not Indonesian? While there are many hundreds of other languages spoken in Indonesia (see also http://www.ethnologue.com/country/ID/languages), which

Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-27 Thread Arthur Reutenauer
Taking Waluyo off the discussion, as it does not seem necessary to involve him in this issue that needs to be addressed by the developers. To Arthur and Mojca regarding why do I expect bahasa to work at all I expected this to work because it works with Babel and because when I select

Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-26 Thread Scott Kostyshak
On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 10:59 PM, Scott Kostyshak skost...@lyx.org wrote: Compiling the attached document gives the following error on TeX Live 2013: luatex-hyphen: no entry in language.dat.lua for this language: bahasa After changing the language to indonesian, it compiles fine. Should

Re: [tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-26 Thread Mojca Miklavec
On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 4:59 AM, Scott Kostyshak wrote: Compiling the attached document gives the following error on TeX Live 2013: luatex-hyphen: no entry in language.dat.lua for this language: bahasa After changing the language to indonesian, it compiles fine. Should bahasa be a synonym

[tex-hyphen] should bahasa be a synonym for Indonesian?

2013-11-24 Thread Scott Kostyshak
Compiling the attached document gives the following error on TeX Live 2013: luatex-hyphen: no entry in language.dat.lua for this language: bahasa After changing the language to indonesian, it compiles fine. Should bahasa be a synonym for indonesian? This thread seems relevant: