[tw5] Transclusion through template --- preserve wikitex formatting

[Sandip Deshmukh]

My `ContactInformation'  tiddler contains:

<$list filter="[contains:participants!sort[on]]">
  <$link />
  {{!!text}}


My 'KG More1' tiddler's participants field contains [[King George]] and its 
text contains:

* Item 1
* Item 2

My 'KG More2' tiddler's participants field contains [[King George]] and its 
text contains:

Some large block of text

My 'King George' tiddler contains:

{{||ContactInformation}}

The wikitex formatting in 'KG More1' is lost when transcluded.

How do I ensure that it is preserved?

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[tw5] Re: Convert a dynamic list into a template

[Sandip Deshmukh]

Well, I found a solution to the problem!!

Here is what I have done:

ContactInformation tiddler carries this code:

<$list filter="[contains:participants!sort[on]]">
  <$link />
  {{!!text}}


Every time I want to extract this information for a particular tiddler, I 
just put:

{{||ContactInformation}}

in it. Then it works.

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:56:41 PM UTC+5:30 Mark S. wrote:

> Can you provide some tiddlers with participants list (e.g. King George, 
> Queen Elizabeth, etc.) Having to guess at someone's data structure makes 
> helping difficult. 
>
> Thanks!
>
> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:07:00 AM UTC-7 Sandip Deshmukh wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Mark.
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:16:42 PM UTC+5:30 Mark S. wrote:
>>
>>> Try 
>>>
>>> 
>>> <$list filter="[contains:participants!sort[at]]">
>>>
>>>  <$link />
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>
>> The first block of code worked perfectly.
>>  
>>
>>>
>>> If that works inside tiddler "King George", then you can paste the text 
>>> into a tiddler and tag it "$:/tags/ViewTemplate" and it will work 
>>> everywhere. But you probably don't want it to work *everywhere*. So you 
>>> can wrap it with a list that only includes tiddlers that have 
>>> *participants* :
>>>
>>> <$list filter="[all[current]has[participants]]">
>>> 
>>> <$list filter="[contains:participants!sort[at]]">
>>>
>>>  <$link />
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>
>> But this did not. I had named the tiddler containing this code 
>> 'ParticipatedList' and tagged it as suggested by you.
>>
>> *Also, what I am aiming at is not the list. I want to transclude the 
>> matching tiddlers.*
>>
>> I have edited the original question to say so explicitly. I earlier 
>> thought that {{}} meant it automatically.
>>
>>  
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 8:07:21 AM UTC-7 Sandip Deshmukh wrote:
>>>
>> Here is a working dynamic list I have:

 
 <$list filter="[contains:participants[King George]!sort[at]]">
  <$link />
 
 

 This works perfectly.

 Can I convert this into a template --- 'ParticipatedListTemplate'?

 So, I can sit in a tiddler 'King George', write

 {{||ParticipatedListTemplate}} and get the same list transcluded.

>>>
 And if it is a template, I can do the same in 'Queen Elizabeth' 
 tiddler, too.

 Or is there a better way of achieving the same thing?

>>>

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Re: [tw5] Re: Random html tags appear in my wiki

[Sandip Deshmukh]

My experience is also very similar to what David has described. Either 
TiddlyDesktop or Tiddloid could be causing the problem.

But nothing seems to be broken. The wiki works perfectly otherwise.

On Thursday, August 26, 2021 at 5:55:52 AM UTC+5:30 TW Tones wrote:

> David,
>
> I am not so sure how to help you but in the past I have seen random 
> tiddlers or their content transcluded when a filter is broken and the 
> result is some artifact. So if you can find the page template, or something 
> tagged $:/tags/BelowStory with a filter in it and fix the filter you may 
> stop it.
> On Tuesday, 24 August 2021 at 23:12:37 UTC+10 David Shaw wrote:
>
>> I get the same sort of thing with both Tiddloid and Tiddloid Lite. I 
>> suspect it is a problem with Tiddloid as I can get the code to disappear if 
>> I open it in either Tiddloid version, save and close it then open it in the 
>> other Tiddloid and save and close it, but this is only a very temporary 
>> solution I'm afraid; the code comes back pretty quickly.
>>
>> David Shaw
>>
>> On Tue, 24 Aug 2021, 13:52 PMario,  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Which version of TW do you use?
>>> Can you link to the Android app you are using?
>>>
>>> Did you install any new plugins, before you copied it over to the phone?
>>>
>>> -mario
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "TiddlyWiki" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/797d0403-6673-408f-87af-b093d6365993n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: tw5-primer, Your New Favorite Theme/Plugin!

[Finn Lancaster]

@PMario, not sure if you saw it yet, but v1.0.1 and v1.0.2 are now out, 
making it less "hacky" (all css now), and no more .innerHTML.

On the note of the .innerHTML, I had a few questions, even though the 
plugin no longer uses it. According to both what I understand, and even the 
MDN doc you linked, innerHTML only becomes a threat when a user can make 
reflective OR persistent js change; The plugin (at v1.0.0) used only text I 
specified as innerHTML to append my stylesheet before tw's so to avoid 
unnecessary !important's and specificity  in the CSS, and thus had no such 
"potential security risk", unless I'm missing something.

Of course a user could change stuff on their end with Browser Inspect, but 
that's only going to hurt themselves if they add malicious js. I think what 
you must have been saying is to avoid using unsanitised external .innerHTML 
additions, which, in this case, was not the case.

Thanks for your help again, and let me know what you think of v1.0.2 
(https://tw5-primer.finnsoftware.net)!

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 12:27:30 PM UTC-4 Finn Lancaster wrote:

> Thanks for the criticism, @PMario. I do understand what you are saying; 
> I've already begun to fix much of this. I intend to include the styles as a 
> stylesheet (as opposed to inside the JS), and apply changes that way.
>
> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 12:16:13 PM UTC-4 PMario wrote:
>
>> Hi Finn, 
>> I appreciate your enthusiasm. .. BUT .. The implementation of this plugin 
>> is a hack from front to center. You use .innerHTML to change the DOM that 
>> has been created by tiddlywiki, with a timer that runs every second. Not 
>> only is .innerHTML a potential security risk 
>> ,
>>  
>> it ruins the TW refresh mechanism and adds a lot of unnecessary CPU load to 
>> the browser. 
>>
>> Everytime we click a button. TW redraws and restyles the different 
>> elements that are changed. ONLY those elements are changed, to make the 
>> mechanism fast.  The browser has to do that, using the existing TW CSS and 
>> apply the styles. 
>>
>> Every second your plugin comes along and replaces the whole CSS with a 
>> 400kByte CSS form a CDN. Hardcore replaces DOM elements the TW core has 
>> drawn and restyles the complete page. (That's where the blinking of the 
>> whole UI comes from. )
>>
>> The most problematic thing is, that the whole thing completely breaks 
>> down in offline mode, or if you have a bad internet connection. 
>> There is an easy test: 
>>
>>  - Go to the dev-console on your page F12
>>  - Select the Network tab
>>  - Search for the "No throttling" dropdown
>>  - Select "slow 3G"
>>  - Select Disable cache which is directly next to it. 
>>  - Then reload your page. 
>>
>> It will need at least 10 seconds to load the page. .. Now guess, how long 
>> it takes if you use the wiki _offline_ 
>>
>> The core developers do everything to make the user experience fast. There 
>> is a lot of internal caching going on, to keep the page redraw as fast as 
>> possible. 
>> The way it's done in the plugin won't work. It may be ok for empty.html, 
>> but once the wiki gets bigger there will be a lot of problems. 
>>
>> Try to download the whole wiki from tiddlywiki.com and drag & drop 
>> import it into your wiki. ... See what happens. 
>>
>> Sorry but theming TW has to be done in the TiddlyWiki way.
>>
>> I'm probably too harsh with my critiques, but please go to google and 
>> search for ".innerHTML security" and read some of the articles that come up.
>> Also have a closer look at the "" element, how it works and what 
>> it means for browser performance when a complete redraw is forced. 
>>
>> -mario
>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: tw5-primer v1.0.1 is here!

[Finn Lancaster]

@Télumire,
Check it out, v1.0.2 is here, with all the changes you asked for! I'm 
thinking v1.0.3 should be some more hotfixes, including increasing 
icon-size in the Tiddler ViewBar. What do you think?

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 7:19:10 PM UTC-4 Finn Lancaster wrote:

> Appreciate the feedback. I'll implement these in v1.0.2, and have it 
> released by tomorrow, hopefully!
>
> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 5:02:50 PM UTC-4 Télumire wrote:
>
>> Hi, nice work !
>>
>> IMO text-shadows make text harder to read when it's already on a dark 
>> background, maybe consider removing it ?
>> The color you use for the text editor should have more contrast, ideally 
>> the same color than on the view. Light grey on dark blue is really hard to 
>> read ..
>> The icons of the editor are too big : 3 rows instead of the usual 1 ?
>>
>>
>> Le mercredi 25 août 2021 à 22:51:55 UTC+2, flanc...@gmail.com a écrit :
>>
>>> Earlier today, I released my newest plugin/theme: tw5-primer, using the 
>>> primer.css library. Now, I'm happy to announce v1.0.1 is here, where I have 
>>> built upon the old code to conform with TW standards, as recommended by 
>>> @PMario. 
>>>
>>> For those of you who haven't already seen it, a demo/install can be 
>>> found at tw5-primer.finnsoftware.net , and its github page is at 
>>> https://github.com/flancast90/tw5-primer.
>>>
>>> *What's new?*
>>> - There is no longer any js portion involved in the theme
>>> - instead, everything is now CSS as a styles.tid file. This keeps your 
>>> wiki lightning fast, as well as usable in no-internet situations! 
>>> - Theming colors updated: edit area, tags, etc all are different looking 
>>> using a mix of primer classes and my own CSS!
>>>
>>> *And one Last Thing:*
>>> I'm looking to get some others opinions on this; I would like to rename 
>>> the plugin the Charcoal, or perhaps Ebony to reflect its modern feel, but 
>>> would also like to keep the fact that it uses some (not much anymore) code 
>>> from Primer.css, and is based upon it. 
>>>
>>> What do you guys think? Any different ideas for names?
>>>
>>> As usual, if you appreciate my work on this, drop a star at the github: 
>>> https://github.com/flancast90/tw5-primer
>>>
>>>

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[tw5] Re: 10 Years of TiddlyWiki Development in 7 Minutes

[jwd]

I've not (yet) watched the TEDx talk. I read the book years ago and it 
continues to make an impression on me.

I believe https://github.com/adamtornhill/code-maat is the corresponding 
code repo. The README there talks about various visualization options.

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-4 PMario wrote:

> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 4:36:23 AM UTC+2 jwd wrote:
>
>> If you are interested in other visualizations like this and related 
>> software code analysis you might find the book Your Code as a Crime Scene 
>>  - 
>> available from various book sellers - usefully thought provoking.  If books 
>> aren't your bag you can also watch a TEDx talk 
>>  by the author.
>>
>
> Thanks for the link. 
> Did have a look at the TEDx talk. Very interesting. 
>
> Did you read the book?
> Is there some software, that created the "heat maps"? ... It would be nice 
> to see those maps for our project. 
> -mario
>
>

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Re: [tw5] "I moved to Discourse" - add your name too?

[TW Tones]

Jeremy,

I understand the value in making GG read only however we have not done this 
with the GG Dev forum and it has not caused too many issues, yes the users 
are more involved and limited compared to the greater group.

However, I would like to suggest *only making it read only in the long run 
if necessary*, because in part; I discovered the other day, some sites, 
editions or macro plugin developers use URLs that reference a GG Discussion 
as the way to contact them, if there is a bug or issue with their published 
content. 

If we make the forum read only people will no longer be able to contact 
them, perhaps unless we provide guidance so they can message the author of 
the post or a replier on the read only forum. Of course authors could add a 
reply now advising users of a new discussion location in discourse but may 
not have the opportunity to do so before it goes read only.

Regards
Tones
On Thursday, 26 August 2021 at 02:51:43 UTC+10 Jeremy Ruston wrote:

>
> Hi Ed
>
> Apologies, I'm taking a short holiday break, but wanted to jump in to 
> reassure you (and others) of a few points:
>
> a) talk.tiddlywiki.org is an experiment for the moment, but my hope is 
> that we will migrate all of our Google Groups to the new service (and set 
> the old groups to "read-only" so that they will continue to be available as 
> an archive)
>
> b) the idea of migrating from Google Groups has been floating around for 
> many years, but I've always been very cautious about. A great friend of 
> TiddlyWiki called Boris Mann kindly offered to help get us set up on the 
> new platform, an offer which was meaningful because he already runs several 
> other instances of Discourse
>
> c) It has to be an experiment because we want to bring everyone with us to 
> the new platform. There's been a lot of great feedback about what people 
> like about the new forum, and what they struggle with. The volunteers are 
> working hard to tweak the system to suit everyone
>
> d) My own experience is that Discourse is superior to Google Groups in 
> almost every way, but I don't underestimate the friction of making the 
> change
>
> Lastly, thank you for sharing your situation with us. Your perspective is 
> inspiring, and there's a lot for us to learn about inclusivity. In the 
> software development industry a certain amount of lip service is paid to 
> accommodating users with visual, auditory or motor difficulties, but very 
> little to cognitive impairment. I suffered from some of it when my long 
> COVID was at its worst, which certainly left me thinking that these 
> considerations would only increase in importance.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 12:18:33 PM UTC+1 barro...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Someone say herding cats?  Let me testify, just like with walking into 
>> Mordor, you don't just herd cats.  You lead them.  And if they don't feel 
>> like following, it probably won't be happening...
>>
>> Yes, I know I'm no help...
>>
>> Will Discourse threads be indexed by Google in general?  I'm sure a few 
>> people (myself included) depend on the ease of being able to find TW info 
>> from this group (as well as TW official static pages) on normal Google web 
>> search results (I believe TW Reddit content also will come up in web 
>> searches)
>> On Tuesday, August 24, 2021 at 11:14:09 PM UTC-4 eddi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> [image: My Brain.jpg]
>>>
>>> Thank You! I do have trouble communicating my thoughts clearly and keep 
>>> this photo on my phone when I run into situations where I think I may need 
>>> to explain why (they do this yearly and there has been no change in the 3/4 
>>> inch diameter hole in a very big head LOL). I am not looking for pity but 
>>> hoping to help make your point. We are all using TiddlyWiki with our own 
>>> understanding and skills. You are also absolutely right, the condensed 
>>> updates are as much or more than I can handle personally as is (you guys 
>>> are way too busy!) LOL. I keep up with these just to make sure what few 
>>> plugins I use are not known or expected to break as TW evolves. Also, I 
>>> think it is important that Jeremy has a say in which he wants to use. 
>>> Realizing of course the real discussion is happening in GIT but all of that 
>>> is way over my head now anyway. Still his announcements about new features 
>>> and explanations on how to use those when questions come up here as well as 
>>> the base TiddlyWiki without addons or plugins (or at least as minimal a set 
>>> as possible) have been extremely helpful to me. So where he goes I need to 
>>> go because he knows when he adds new features he needs to make the 
>>> explanations and use of them as intuitive and user friendly (there's an old 
>>> term!) as possible and most likely with those explanations in mind. 
>>> TiddlyWiki itself is the best example that I can think of due to its 
>>> simplicity in a way. It has amazing capabilities but an ease of use 
>>> 

Re: [tw5] Re: Random html tags appear in my wiki

[TW Tones]

David,

I am not so sure how to help you but in the past I have seen random 
tiddlers or their content transcluded when a filter is broken and the 
result is some artifact. So if you can find the page template, or something 
tagged $:/tags/BelowStory with a filter in it and fix the filter you may 
stop it.
On Tuesday, 24 August 2021 at 23:12:37 UTC+10 David Shaw wrote:

> I get the same sort of thing with both Tiddloid and Tiddloid Lite. I 
> suspect it is a problem with Tiddloid as I can get the code to disappear if 
> I open it in either Tiddloid version, save and close it then open it in the 
> other Tiddloid and save and close it, but this is only a very temporary 
> solution I'm afraid; the code comes back pretty quickly.
>
> David Shaw
>
> On Tue, 24 Aug 2021, 13:52 PMario,  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Which version of TW do you use?
>> Can you link to the Android app you are using?
>>
>> Did you install any new plugins, before you copied it over to the phone?
>>
>> -mario
>>
>> -- 
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>> "TiddlyWiki" group.
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>> email to tiddlywiki+...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tiddlywiki/797d0403-6673-408f-87af-b093d6365993n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [tw5] "I moved to Discourse" - add your name too?

[TW Tones]

Birthe/Strike,

I hope Ed did not think "I thought he was complaining". I think my argument 
points out the new platform will be valuable to everyone, and is important, 
despite the pain of change. In fact it is really important Ed and Charlie 
etc.. understand I will help in any way I can.

Some of these improvements will help reduce cognitive load once we have 
them working, like being able to have a Wiki Post that we can all edit 
which ultimately can summarise a thread.

Also I would hope the overriding message is "as a community we can work 
with our diverse community" to support and enable them which I can really 
see is necessary when moving to a fully featured solution. Basically unlike 
many other communities members can get personal one on one support. We have 
done some in the past, and yes we can do so more, but the community seems 
dedicated to do so.

Still I welcome your comments.

On Tuesday, 24 August 2021 at 13:20:39 UTC+10 strikke...@gmail.com wrote:

> Tony,
> Ed did not complain. He would not like to miss totally out on the group 
> and is afraid that will happen! Explained that his need was to receive 
> email summary as that is the only way it would be possible for him to enjoy 
> the part possible for him to use. The question was not about the reasoning 
> for some to want the move - but: "Will I be able to receive email summary 
> from this new group - and if so, can someone help me get it set up?"
>
> Just as when you asked for a couple of days, why you were not able to 
> login and get writing in the new group - and asked repeatedly to get help 
> from moderators to be able to write to the group. (Sure easy to sign up - 
> you now write). Other people have other problems, and not everyone has all 
> of your expertise in using all sorts of groups at a professional level.
>
> As a promoter for the move and now a leader in the new group prepare for 
> questions like this - and be happy when they are asked. This group is large 
> and lots of users have used it for years - but have special needs to be 
> able to do so.  If questions like this is not met with answers - those 
> users will just be sorry and give up without telling you - and have lost 
> yet another thing in life. Please remember that someone's gain is often 
> happening while others loose out.
>
> We know that quite some users of this group -found ways to keep using 
> Tiddlywiki and this group. And at. some point explained their special needs 
> and why they needed a solution. Poor eyesight or blindness has been one of 
> them.
>
> I would think that promoting the discourse group - why not make it clear - 
> can you use the group directly from receiving emails - emails summary. Can 
> you use the group fully if your only way of being able is using a screen 
> reader?
>
> Others have written earlier about having difficulty with busy screens, 
> moving parts - and lot of colour - lots of changing screens with shifting 
> layouts - and even more I cannot remember now. Explain how to use it for 
> those - if possible.
>
> If people with special needs are not in the target group for the the new 
> group - save time and explain why.
>
> Please think about it - and ask people to explain their problems - and try 
> to find solutions. Use those points in the promotion.  Plenty of telling it 
> is beautiful, easy, what some wants etc. I think most have read that by now.
>
> And the questions have to be asked before your wished making this group 
> read only - because afterwards - you will never know.
>
> Who *IS* in the Target group for the new group? And then list the 
> promoting  points - ALL of them. Show that list clearly in both groups.
>
> Please - I did not in anyway want to offend anyone - but we are not all 
> the same.
>  
> On Tuesday, August 24, 2021 at 1:46:44 AM UTC+2 TW Tones wrote:
>
>> Ed,
>>
>> Many of us who are deeply imbedded and active in Google Groups have good 
>> reasons and arguments to move. Apart from the fact you can't even reply on 
>> a mobile, mark code in a forum post and more Discourse solves a range of 
>> problems and issues that I expect you do not experience every day.
>>
>> We can't rely on Google any more and moving to talk.tiddlywiki.org puts 
>> control into the communities hands. In many ways "a move" if not "this 
>> move" has being on the cards for years, however getting consensus from the 
>> community is like herding cats. To put this decision on Jeremy alone is 
>> also asking too much.
>>
>> I know change can be difficult but as always the community is here to 
>> help, and from what I have seen Discourse offers everything and more than 
>> GG. So I am confident we can restore the functionality you want.
>>
>> Please continue to raise issues but also let the community help you 
>> transition or solve the problems you experience, or even ultimately change 
>> our minds because of your experience.
>>
>> If you did not see yet, signing up at  talk.tiddlywiki.org with your 
>> 

[tw5] Re: tw5-primer v1.0.1 is here!

[Finn Lancaster]

Appreciate the feedback. I'll implement these in v1.0.2, and have it 
released by tomorrow, hopefully!

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 5:02:50 PM UTC-4 Télumire wrote:

> Hi, nice work !
>
> IMO text-shadows make text harder to read when it's already on a dark 
> background, maybe consider removing it ?
> The color you use for the text editor should have more contrast, ideally 
> the same color than on the view. Light grey on dark blue is really hard to 
> read ..
> The icons of the editor are too big : 3 rows instead of the usual 1 ?
>
>
> Le mercredi 25 août 2021 à 22:51:55 UTC+2, flanc...@gmail.com a écrit :
>
>> Earlier today, I released my newest plugin/theme: tw5-primer, using the 
>> primer.css library. Now, I'm happy to announce v1.0.1 is here, where I have 
>> built upon the old code to conform with TW standards, as recommended by 
>> @PMario. 
>>
>> For those of you who haven't already seen it, a demo/install can be found 
>> at tw5-primer.finnsoftware.net , and its github page is at 
>> https://github.com/flancast90/tw5-primer.
>>
>> *What's new?*
>> - There is no longer any js portion involved in the theme
>> - instead, everything is now CSS as a styles.tid file. This keeps your 
>> wiki lightning fast, as well as usable in no-internet situations! 
>> - Theming colors updated: edit area, tags, etc all are different looking 
>> using a mix of primer classes and my own CSS!
>>
>> *And one Last Thing:*
>> I'm looking to get some others opinions on this; I would like to rename 
>> the plugin the Charcoal, or perhaps Ebony to reflect its modern feel, but 
>> would also like to keep the fact that it uses some (not much anymore) code 
>> from Primer.css, and is based upon it. 
>>
>> What do you guys think? Any different ideas for names?
>>
>> As usual, if you appreciate my work on this, drop a star at the github: 
>> https://github.com/flancast90/tw5-primer
>>
>>

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Re: [tw5] "I moved to Discourse" - add your name too?

[Charlie Veniot]

All of that is totally valid and well said, but do keep in mind:

When something is too complex for an individual with a cognitive disability 
(including Edward, including me, including whoever else), the complexity of 
an application and/or the interface, that doesn't really get resolved by 
more documentation.

More documentation, in itself, becomes a cognitive barrier.

The ideal is an interface that is easy to understand without any 
documentation.  An interface that is by default at its simplest out of the 
gate, but easily/intuitively allows more complexity via easily found 
options.  Complexity, by design and by default, is best as an opt-in 
feature, not an opt-out feature.

"Opt-in" is easy for those who are not dealing with a cognitive disability, 
and might be possibly eased into for those with a cognitive disability.

"Opt-out" can be challenging for those with a cognitive disability because 
everything is overwhelming by default. (Cognitive overload, 
over-stimulating, causing immediate deer-in-the-headlights or 
fight-or-flight-reaction.)

Well, I can wish on the one hand and poop in the other, and I know which 
hand will get filled first ... (Yeah, I love "Grumpy Old Men" references.  
Grandpa Gustafson!)

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 3:32:52 PM UTC-3 TiddlyTweeter wrote:

> Ciao Jeremy
>
> Very GOOD reply. Very frank, clear, to the point. You really are a very, 
> very good BDFL 
> .
>
> Just FYI, regarding moving ... I agree with all your points. Especially 
> (b) where the wanting to move OFF GG has come up seriously several times in 
> the last few years, and which this initiative may solve. And (c) where it 
> is IMPORTANT *we don't rush the process of transfer* (IF any); it being 
> vital to ensure that Discourse will serve ALL of us well into the future. 
> Addressing Ed's case is highly pertinent to achieving that IMO .
>
> Regarding (d), the facilities Discourse offers, its looks superior to GG. 
> My concern is it is quite complex (rich) and I want to be sure a newbie 
> will be able to cope in a way they can get answers they need. 
> I suspect WE may need to provide more documentation to make this side of 
> it easier. 
>
> Just my thoughts at the moment
>
> Best wishes
> Josiah
> On Wednesday, 25 August 2021 at 18:51:43 UTC+2 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Ed
>>
>> Apologies, I'm taking a short holiday break, but wanted to jump in to 
>> reassure you (and others) of a few points:
>>
>> a) talk.tiddlywiki.org is an experiment for the moment, but my hope is 
>> that we will migrate all of our Google Groups to the new service (and set 
>> the old groups to "read-only" so that they will continue to be available as 
>> an archive)
>>
>> b) the idea of migrating from Google Groups has been floating around for 
>> many years, but I've always been very cautious about. A great friend of 
>> TiddlyWiki called Boris Mann kindly offered to help get us set up on the 
>> new platform, an offer which was meaningful because he already runs several 
>> other instances of Discourse
>>
>> c) It has to be an experiment because we want to bring everyone with us 
>> to the new platform. There's been a lot of great feedback about what people 
>> like about the new forum, and what they struggle with. The volunteers are 
>> working hard to tweak the system to suit everyone
>>
>> d) My own experience is that Discourse is superior to Google Groups in 
>> almost every way, but I don't underestimate the friction of making the 
>> change
>>
>> Lastly, thank you for sharing your situation with us. Your perspective is 
>> inspiring, and there's a lot for us to learn about inclusivity. In the 
>> software development industry a certain amount of lip service is paid to 
>> accommodating users with visual, auditory or motor difficulties, but very 
>> little to cognitive impairment. I suffered from some of it when my long 
>> COVID was at its worst, which certainly left me thinking that these 
>> considerations would only increase in importance.
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> Jeremy
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 12:18:33 PM UTC+1 barro...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Someone say herding cats?  Let me testify, just like with walking into 
>>> Mordor, you don't just herd cats.  You lead them.  And if they don't feel 
>>> like following, it probably won't be happening...
>>>
>>> Yes, I know I'm no help...
>>>
>>> Will Discourse threads be indexed by Google in general?  I'm sure a few 
>>> people (myself included) depend on the ease of being able to find TW info 
>>> from this group (as well as TW official static pages) on normal Google web 
>>> search results (I believe TW Reddit content also will come up in web 
>>> searches)
>>> On Tuesday, August 24, 2021 at 11:14:09 PM UTC-4 eddi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 [image: My Brain.jpg]

 Thank You! I do have trouble communicating my thoughts clearly and keep 
 this photo on 

[tw5] Re: tw5-primer v1.0.1 is here!

[Télumire]

Hi, nice work !

IMO text-shadows make text harder to read when it's already on a dark 
background, maybe consider removing it ?
The color you use for the text editor should have more contrast, ideally 
the same color than on the view. Light grey on dark blue is really hard to 
read ..
The icons of the editor are too big : 3 rows instead of the usual 1 ?


Le mercredi 25 août 2021 à 22:51:55 UTC+2, flanc...@gmail.com a écrit :

> Earlier today, I released my newest plugin/theme: tw5-primer, using the 
> primer.css library. Now, I'm happy to announce v1.0.1 is here, where I have 
> built upon the old code to conform with TW standards, as recommended by 
> @PMario. 
>
> For those of you who haven't already seen it, a demo/install can be found 
> at tw5-primer.finnsoftware.net , and its github page is at 
> https://github.com/flancast90/tw5-primer.
>
> *What's new?*
> - There is no longer any js portion involved in the theme
> - instead, everything is now CSS as a styles.tid file. This keeps your 
> wiki lightning fast, as well as usable in no-internet situations! 
> - Theming colors updated: edit area, tags, etc all are different looking 
> using a mix of primer classes and my own CSS!
>
> *And one Last Thing:*
> I'm looking to get some others opinions on this; I would like to rename 
> the plugin the Charcoal, or perhaps Ebony to reflect its modern feel, but 
> would also like to keep the fact that it uses some (not much anymore) code 
> from Primer.css, and is based upon it. 
>
> What do you guys think? Any different ideas for names?
>
> As usual, if you appreciate my work on this, drop a star at the github: 
> https://github.com/flancast90/tw5-primer
>
>

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[tw5] tw5-primer v1.0.1 is here!

[Finn Lancaster]

Earlier today, I released my newest plugin/theme: tw5-primer, using the 
primer.css library. Now, I'm happy to announce v1.0.1 is here, where I have 
built upon the old code to conform with TW standards, as recommended by 
@PMario. 

For those of you who haven't already seen it, a demo/install can be found 
at tw5-primer.finnsoftware.net , and its github page is at 
https://github.com/flancast90/tw5-primer.

*What's new?*
- There is no longer any js portion involved in the theme
- instead, everything is now CSS as a styles.tid file. This keeps your wiki 
lightning fast, as well as usable in no-internet situations! 
- Theming colors updated: edit area, tags, etc all are different looking 
using a mix of primer classes and my own CSS!

*And one Last Thing:*
I'm looking to get some others opinions on this; I would like to rename the 
plugin the Charcoal, or perhaps Ebony to reflect its modern feel, but would 
also like to keep the fact that it uses some (not much anymore) code from 
Primer.css, and is based upon it. 

What do you guys think? Any different ideas for names?

As usual, if you appreciate my work on this, drop a star at the github: 
https://github.com/flancast90/tw5-primer

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Re: [tw5] "I moved to Discourse" - add your name too?

[TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Jeremy

Very GOOD reply. Very frank, clear, to the point. You really are a very, 
very good BDFL .

Just FYI, regarding moving ... I agree with all your points. Especially (b) 
where the wanting to move OFF GG has come up seriously several times in the 
last few years, and which this initiative may solve. And (c) where it is 
IMPORTANT *we don't rush the process of transfer* (IF any); it being vital 
to ensure that Discourse will serve ALL of us well into the future. 
Addressing Ed's case is highly pertinent to achieving that IMO .

Regarding (d), the facilities Discourse offers, its looks superior to GG. 
My concern is it is quite complex (rich) and I want to be sure a newbie 
will be able to cope in a way they can get answers they need. 
I suspect WE may need to provide more documentation to make this side of it 
easier. 

Just my thoughts at the moment

Best wishes
Josiah
On Wednesday, 25 August 2021 at 18:51:43 UTC+2 jeremy...@gmail.com wrote:

>
> Hi Ed
>
> Apologies, I'm taking a short holiday break, but wanted to jump in to 
> reassure you (and others) of a few points:
>
> a) talk.tiddlywiki.org is an experiment for the moment, but my hope is 
> that we will migrate all of our Google Groups to the new service (and set 
> the old groups to "read-only" so that they will continue to be available as 
> an archive)
>
> b) the idea of migrating from Google Groups has been floating around for 
> many years, but I've always been very cautious about. A great friend of 
> TiddlyWiki called Boris Mann kindly offered to help get us set up on the 
> new platform, an offer which was meaningful because he already runs several 
> other instances of Discourse
>
> c) It has to be an experiment because we want to bring everyone with us to 
> the new platform. There's been a lot of great feedback about what people 
> like about the new forum, and what they struggle with. The volunteers are 
> working hard to tweak the system to suit everyone
>
> d) My own experience is that Discourse is superior to Google Groups in 
> almost every way, but I don't underestimate the friction of making the 
> change
>
> Lastly, thank you for sharing your situation with us. Your perspective is 
> inspiring, and there's a lot for us to learn about inclusivity. In the 
> software development industry a certain amount of lip service is paid to 
> accommodating users with visual, auditory or motor difficulties, but very 
> little to cognitive impairment. I suffered from some of it when my long 
> COVID was at its worst, which certainly left me thinking that these 
> considerations would only increase in importance.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Jeremy
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 12:18:33 PM UTC+1 barro...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Someone say herding cats?  Let me testify, just like with walking into 
>> Mordor, you don't just herd cats.  You lead them.  And if they don't feel 
>> like following, it probably won't be happening...
>>
>> Yes, I know I'm no help...
>>
>> Will Discourse threads be indexed by Google in general?  I'm sure a few 
>> people (myself included) depend on the ease of being able to find TW info 
>> from this group (as well as TW official static pages) on normal Google web 
>> search results (I believe TW Reddit content also will come up in web 
>> searches)
>> On Tuesday, August 24, 2021 at 11:14:09 PM UTC-4 eddi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> [image: My Brain.jpg]
>>>
>>> Thank You! I do have trouble communicating my thoughts clearly and keep 
>>> this photo on my phone when I run into situations where I think I may need 
>>> to explain why (they do this yearly and there has been no change in the 3/4 
>>> inch diameter hole in a very big head LOL). I am not looking for pity but 
>>> hoping to help make your point. We are all using TiddlyWiki with our own 
>>> understanding and skills. You are also absolutely right, the condensed 
>>> updates are as much or more than I can handle personally as is (you guys 
>>> are way too busy!) LOL. I keep up with these just to make sure what few 
>>> plugins I use are not known or expected to break as TW evolves. Also, I 
>>> think it is important that Jeremy has a say in which he wants to use. 
>>> Realizing of course the real discussion is happening in GIT but all of that 
>>> is way over my head now anyway. Still his announcements about new features 
>>> and explanations on how to use those when questions come up here as well as 
>>> the base TiddlyWiki without addons or plugins (or at least as minimal a set 
>>> as possible) have been extremely helpful to me. So where he goes I need to 
>>> go because he knows when he adds new features he needs to make the 
>>> explanations and use of them as intuitive and user friendly (there's an old 
>>> term!) as possible and most likely with those explanations in mind. 
>>> TiddlyWiki itself is the best example that I can think of due to its 
>>> simplicity in a way. It has 

[tw5] 2D tiddler grid (?): nulis.io

[Anjar]

Hi,

I just found nulis.io and it seems very interesting: https://nulis.io/ In 
short, it is tiddlers but in 2D. Perhaps someone can use it for inspiration

Best,
Anders

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[tw5] Quine2 on iPadOS 14.7.1

[Philipp Verbeek]

Hi everybody,

I deleted by mistake Quine_2-App on my iPad. It was saved on "My iPad", not 
in iCloud ("backup" is activated and yesterday-files are saved). Is there a 
way to get my today-TW5-files back? 

kind regards

Philipp

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Re: [tw5] "I moved to Discourse" - add your name too?

[Jeremy Ruston]

Hi Ed

Apologies, I'm taking a short holiday break, but wanted to jump in to 
reassure you (and others) of a few points:

a) talk.tiddlywiki.org is an experiment for the moment, but my hope is that 
we will migrate all of our Google Groups to the new service (and set the 
old groups to "read-only" so that they will continue to be available as an 
archive)

b) the idea of migrating from Google Groups has been floating around for 
many years, but I've always been very cautious about. A great friend of 
TiddlyWiki called Boris Mann kindly offered to help get us set up on the 
new platform, an offer which was meaningful because he already runs several 
other instances of Discourse

c) It has to be an experiment because we want to bring everyone with us to 
the new platform. There's been a lot of great feedback about what people 
like about the new forum, and what they struggle with. The volunteers are 
working hard to tweak the system to suit everyone

d) My own experience is that Discourse is superior to Google Groups in 
almost every way, but I don't underestimate the friction of making the 
change

Lastly, thank you for sharing your situation with us. Your perspective is 
inspiring, and there's a lot for us to learn about inclusivity. In the 
software development industry a certain amount of lip service is paid to 
accommodating users with visual, auditory or motor difficulties, but very 
little to cognitive impairment. I suffered from some of it when my long 
COVID was at its worst, which certainly left me thinking that these 
considerations would only increase in importance.

Best wishes

Jeremy



On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 12:18:33 PM UTC+1 barro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Someone say herding cats?  Let me testify, just like with walking into 
> Mordor, you don't just herd cats.  You lead them.  And if they don't feel 
> like following, it probably won't be happening...
>
> Yes, I know I'm no help...
>
> Will Discourse threads be indexed by Google in general?  I'm sure a few 
> people (myself included) depend on the ease of being able to find TW info 
> from this group (as well as TW official static pages) on normal Google web 
> search results (I believe TW Reddit content also will come up in web 
> searches)
> On Tuesday, August 24, 2021 at 11:14:09 PM UTC-4 eddi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> [image: My Brain.jpg]
>>
>> Thank You! I do have trouble communicating my thoughts clearly and keep 
>> this photo on my phone when I run into situations where I think I may need 
>> to explain why (they do this yearly and there has been no change in the 3/4 
>> inch diameter hole in a very big head LOL). I am not looking for pity but 
>> hoping to help make your point. We are all using TiddlyWiki with our own 
>> understanding and skills. You are also absolutely right, the condensed 
>> updates are as much or more than I can handle personally as is (you guys 
>> are way too busy!) LOL. I keep up with these just to make sure what few 
>> plugins I use are not known or expected to break as TW evolves. Also, I 
>> think it is important that Jeremy has a say in which he wants to use. 
>> Realizing of course the real discussion is happening in GIT but all of that 
>> is way over my head now anyway. Still his announcements about new features 
>> and explanations on how to use those when questions come up here as well as 
>> the base TiddlyWiki without addons or plugins (or at least as minimal a set 
>> as possible) have been extremely helpful to me. So where he goes I need to 
>> go because he knows when he adds new features he needs to make the 
>> explanations and use of them as intuitive and user friendly (there's an old 
>> term!) as possible and most likely with those explanations in mind. 
>> TiddlyWiki itself is the best example that I can think of due to its 
>> simplicity in a way. It has amazing capabilities but an ease of use 
>> unparalleled by programs that have almost none of the customization 
>> capabilities allowing it to be used as needed. I have seen efforts to write 
>> books and manuals fail not due to a lack of effort, knowledge, or ability 
>> but a lack of being able to keep up with the pace TW5 evolves which is an 
>> amazing example of how much work Jeremy and those who help him have 
>> put into this over the years! To me this group does represent a record of 
>> all that effort and progress he might prefer continues here? 
>>
>> But not trying to argue for or against with anyone. LOL I know longer 
>> have those skills either (happily). I am Just trying to keep up, which is 
>> probably a fool's errand anyway but, also offer a reminder that unless 
>> there is a fork planned I personally feel no one should just take the 
>> community he has built here and put it over there without him at least 
>> being a part of that decision.  
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 10:20 PM strikke...@gmail.com <
>> strikke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Tony,
>>> Ed did not complain. He would not 

[tw5] Re: tw5-primer, Your New Favorite Theme/Plugin!

[Finn Lancaster]

Thanks for the criticism, @PMario. I do understand what you are saying; 
I've already begun to fix much of this. I intend to include the styles as a 
stylesheet (as opposed to inside the JS), and apply changes that way.

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 12:16:13 PM UTC-4 PMario wrote:

> Hi Finn, 
> I appreciate your enthusiasm. .. BUT .. The implementation of this plugin 
> is a hack from front to center. You use .innerHTML to change the DOM that 
> has been created by tiddlywiki, with a timer that runs every second. Not 
> only is .innerHTML a potential security risk 
> ,
>  
> it ruins the TW refresh mechanism and adds a lot of unnecessary CPU load to 
> the browser. 
>
> Everytime we click a button. TW redraws and restyles the different 
> elements that are changed. ONLY those elements are changed, to make the 
> mechanism fast.  The browser has to do that, using the existing TW CSS and 
> apply the styles. 
>
> Every second your plugin comes along and replaces the whole CSS with a 
> 400kByte CSS form a CDN. Hardcore replaces DOM elements the TW core has 
> drawn and restyles the complete page. (That's where the blinking of the 
> whole UI comes from. )
>
> The most problematic thing is, that the whole thing completely breaks down 
> in offline mode, or if you have a bad internet connection. 
> There is an easy test: 
>
>  - Go to the dev-console on your page F12
>  - Select the Network tab
>  - Search for the "No throttling" dropdown
>  - Select "slow 3G"
>  - Select Disable cache which is directly next to it. 
>  - Then reload your page. 
>
> It will need at least 10 seconds to load the page. .. Now guess, how long 
> it takes if you use the wiki _offline_ 
>
> The core developers do everything to make the user experience fast. There 
> is a lot of internal caching going on, to keep the page redraw as fast as 
> possible. 
> The way it's done in the plugin won't work. It may be ok for empty.html, 
> but once the wiki gets bigger there will be a lot of problems. 
>
> Try to download the whole wiki from tiddlywiki.com and drag & drop import 
> it into your wiki. ... See what happens. 
>
> Sorry but theming TW has to be done in the TiddlyWiki way.
>
> I'm probably too harsh with my critiques, but please go to google and 
> search for ".innerHTML security" and read some of the articles that come up.
> Also have a closer look at the "" element, how it works and what 
> it means for browser performance when a complete redraw is forced. 
>
> -mario
>
>

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[tw5] Re: Convert a dynamic list into a template

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Can you provide some tiddlers with participants list (e.g. King George, 
Queen Elizabeth, etc.) Having to guess at someone's data structure makes 
helping difficult. 

Thanks!

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:07:00 AM UTC-7 Sandip Deshmukh wrote:

> Thanks, Mark.
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:16:42 PM UTC+5:30 Mark S. wrote:
>
>> Try 
>>
>> 
>> <$list filter="[contains:participants!sort[at]]">
>>
>>  <$link />
>> 
>> 
>>
>
> The first block of code worked perfectly.
>  
>
>>
>> If that works inside tiddler "King George", then you can paste the text 
>> into a tiddler and tag it "$:/tags/ViewTemplate" and it will work 
>> everywhere. But you probably don't want it to work *everywhere*. So you 
>> can wrap it with a list that only includes tiddlers that have 
>> *participants* :
>>
>> <$list filter="[all[current]has[participants]]">
>> 
>> <$list filter="[contains:participants!sort[at]]">
>>
>>  <$link />
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>
>
> But this did not. I had named the tiddler containing this code 
> 'ParticipatedList' and tagged it as suggested by you.
>
> *Also, what I am aiming at is not the list. I want to transclude the 
> matching tiddlers.*
>
> I have edited the original question to say so explicitly. I earlier 
> thought that {{}} meant it automatically.
>
>  
>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 8:07:21 AM UTC-7 Sandip Deshmukh wrote:
>>
> Here is a working dynamic list I have:
>>>
>>> 
>>> <$list filter="[contains:participants[King George]!sort[at]]">
>>>  <$link />
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>> This works perfectly.
>>>
>>> Can I convert this into a template --- 'ParticipatedListTemplate'?
>>>
>>> So, I can sit in a tiddler 'King George', write
>>>
>>> {{||ParticipatedListTemplate}} and get the same list transcluded.
>>>
>>
>>> And if it is a template, I can do the same in 'Queen Elizabeth' tiddler, 
>>> too.
>>>
>>> Or is there a better way of achieving the same thing?
>>>
>>

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[tw5] Re: tw5-primer, Your New Favorite Theme/Plugin!

[PMario]

Hi Finn, 
I appreciate your enthusiasm. .. BUT .. The implementation of this plugin 
is a hack from front to center. You use .innerHTML to change the DOM that 
has been created by tiddlywiki, with a timer that runs every second. Not 
only is .innerHTML a potential security risk 
,
 
it ruins the TW refresh mechanism and adds a lot of unnecessary CPU load to 
the browser. 

Everytime we click a button. TW redraws and restyles the different elements 
that are changed. ONLY those elements are changed, to make the mechanism 
fast.  The browser has to do that, using the existing TW CSS and apply the 
styles. 

Every second your plugin comes along and replaces the whole CSS with a 
400kByte CSS form a CDN. Hardcore replaces DOM elements the TW core has 
drawn and restyles the complete page. (That's where the blinking of the 
whole UI comes from. )

The most problematic thing is, that the whole thing completely breaks down 
in offline mode, or if you have a bad internet connection. 
There is an easy test: 

 - Go to the dev-console on your page F12
 - Select the Network tab
 - Search for the "No throttling" dropdown
 - Select "slow 3G"
 - Select Disable cache which is directly next to it. 
 - Then reload your page. 

It will need at least 10 seconds to load the page. .. Now guess, how long 
it takes if you use the wiki _offline_ 

The core developers do everything to make the user experience fast. There 
is a lot of internal caching going on, to keep the page redraw as fast as 
possible. 
The way it's done in the plugin won't work. It may be ok for empty.html, 
but once the wiki gets bigger there will be a lot of problems. 

Try to download the whole wiki from tiddlywiki.com and drag & drop import 
it into your wiki. ... See what happens. 

Sorry but theming TW has to be done in the TiddlyWiki way.

I'm probably too harsh with my critiques, but please go to google and 
search for ".innerHTML security" and read some of the articles that come up.
Also have a closer look at the "" element, how it works and what it 
means for browser performance when a complete redraw is forced. 

-mario

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[tw5] Re: Convert a dynamic list into a template

[Sandip Deshmukh]

Thanks, Mark.


On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 9:16:42 PM UTC+5:30 Mark S. wrote:

> Try 
>
> 
> <$list filter="[contains:participants!sort[at]]">
>
>  <$link />
> 
> 
>

The first block of code worked perfectly.
 

>
> If that works inside tiddler "King George", then you can paste the text 
> into a tiddler and tag it "$:/tags/ViewTemplate" and it will work 
> everywhere. But you probably don't want it to work *everywhere*. So you 
> can wrap it with a list that only includes tiddlers that have 
> *participants* :
>
> <$list filter="[all[current]has[participants]]">
> 
> <$list filter="[contains:participants!sort[at]]">
>
>  <$link />
> 
> 
> 
>

But this did not. I had named the tiddler containing this code 
'ParticipatedList' and tagged it as suggested by you.

*Also, what I am aiming at is not the list. I want to transclude the 
matching tiddlers.*

I have edited the original question to say so explicitly. I earlier thought 
that {{}} meant it automatically.

 

>
>
> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 8:07:21 AM UTC-7 Sandip Deshmukh wrote:
>
>> Here is a working dynamic list I have:
>>
>> 
>> <$list filter="[contains:participants[King George]!sort[at]]">
>>  <$link />
>> 
>> 
>>
>> This works perfectly.
>>
>> Can I convert this into a template --- 'ParticipatedListTemplate'?
>>
>> So, I can sit in a tiddler 'King George', write
>>
>> {{||ParticipatedListTemplate}} and get the same list transcluded.
>>
>> And if it is a template, I can do the same in 'Queen Elizabeth' tiddler, 
>> too.
>>
>> Or is there a better way of achieving the same thing?
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Convert a dynamic list into a template

['Mark S.' via TiddlyWiki]

Try 


<$list filter="[contains:participants!sort[at]]">
 <$link />



If that works inside tiddler "King George", then you can paste the text 
into a tiddler and tag it "$:/tags/ViewTemplate" and it will work 
everywhere. But you probably don't want it to work *everywhere*. So you can 
wrap it with a list that only includes tiddlers that have *participants* :

<$list filter="[all[current]has[participants]]">

<$list filter="[contains:participants!sort[at]]">
 <$link />





On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 8:07:21 AM UTC-7 Sandip Deshmukh wrote:

> Here is a working dynamic list I have:
>
> 
> <$list filter="[contains:participants[King George]!sort[at]]">
>  <$link />
> 
> 
>
> This works perfectly.
>
> Can I convert this into a template --- 'ParticipatedListTemplate'?
>
> So, I can sit in a tiddler 'King George', write
>
> {{||ParticipatedListTemplate}} and get the same list.
>
> And if it is a template, I can do the same in 'Queen Elizabeth' tiddler, 
> too.
>
> Or is there a better way of achieving the same thing?
>

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[tw5] Convert a dynamic list into a template

[Sandip Deshmukh]

Here is a working dynamic list I have:


<$list filter="[contains:participants[King George]!sort[at]]">
 <$link />



This works perfectly.

Can I convert this into a template --- 'ParticipatedListTemplate'?

So, I can sit in a tiddler 'King George', write

{{||ParticipatedListTemplate}} and get the same list.

And if it is a template, I can do the same in 'Queen Elizabeth' tiddler, 
too.

Or is there a better way of achieving the same thing?

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[tw5] Re: Dynamic list with tiddler names containing a space

[Sandip Deshmukh]

Thanks, Mario.

That was an error. It should have been the same field in both the places.

Frankly, I am kind of overwhelmed with a lot of things in tiddlywiki. And 
being a newbie, finding it is a bit difficult to cope up.

I am very near to achieving what I wanted to. But because Google Groups 
does not allow me to change the earlier message, I will post a new 
conversation.

Please bear with me.


On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 7:28:17 PM UTC+5:30 PMario wrote:

> On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 12:26:56 PM UTC+2 Sandip Deshmukh wrote:
>
> But the filter syntax you have provided does not produce any results.
>>
>
> IMO your variables are different. You wrote there is a tag project and 
> the filter uses it. 
> Then your wrote 
>
> >Another tiddler "D D" has [[A A]] and [[B B]] in participants. 
>
> Here you use participants. .. Which is not used in the filter. So it 
> doesn't do anything. 
>
> just a guess
> -mario
>

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[tw5] tw5-primer, Your New Favorite Theme/Plugin!

[Finn Lancaster]

Hi everyone!

I have made yet another tw5 plugin, this one acting as more of a 
JS-inclusive theme for tw! The plugin, at this point, includes a Primer.css 
(https://www.primer.style/css) rendition of tw5 (primer is GitHub's css 
library), which defaults to dark mode (light mode will be coming soon!).

I would love to have some testers for this; because of the need to re-write 
most of the primer stylesheet to fit tw5, and then add the correct classes 
to tw5 elements to have this styling... well.. let's just say it wasn't 
easy, and required a rather unorthodox approach. 

The plugin can be installed via drag-and-drop from 
https://tw5-primer.fnnsoftware.net, and the GitHub repo is at 
https://github.com/flancast90/tw5-primer. As usual, if you enjoy the 
plugin, share your thoughts... and a star :)

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[tw5] Re: Dynamic list with tiddler names containing a space

[PMario]

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 12:26:56 PM UTC+2 Sandip Deshmukh wrote:

But the filter syntax you have provided does not produce any results.
>

IMO your variables are different. You wrote there is a tag project and the 
filter uses it. 
Then your wrote 

>Another tiddler "D D" has [[A A]] and [[B B]] in participants. 

Here you use participants. .. Which is not used in the filter. So it 
doesn't do anything. 

just a guess
-mario

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[tw5] Re: 10 Years of TiddlyWiki Development in 7 Minutes

[PMario]

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 4:36:23 AM UTC+2 jwd wrote:

> If you are interested in other visualizations like this and related 
> software code analysis you might find the book Your Code as a Crime Scene 
>  - 
> available from various book sellers - usefully thought provoking.  If books 
> aren't your bag you can also watch a TEDx talk 
>  by the author.
>

Thanks for the link. 
Did have a look at the TEDx talk. Very interesting. 

Did you read the book?
Is there some software, that created the "heat maps"? ... It would be nice 
to see those maps for our project. 
-mario

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[tw5] Re: List sort by count field operator

[Soren Bjornstad]

Unless I'm misunderstanding, sortsub[] with a filter containing count[] 
should do what you need. You might need to add the *integer* suffix to it 
though, or else it will sort the numbers alphabetically and not produce a 
very useful sort.

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 6:05:57 AM UTC-5 barro...@gmail.com wrote:

> I saw references to sorting list results by the count operator but didn't 
> find the actual threads/posts about the method.
>
> I assume it will require a subfilter, because in a root list filter the 
> count just returns the count of the list results, not counts for each of 
> the list results.  
>
> The sortsub operation worked with anything involving the titles of the 
> list results (such as length) but not the count operator.
>
> What I'm aiming for is ranking/sorting results (greatest to lowest counts) 
> of such lists as tags and tiddlers tagged with each or
>
> fields and how many tiddlers have each value of a particular field such as 
> below:
>
> <$list filter="[tag[zz]each[zzfield1]get[zzfield1]]"><$view 
> field="title"/> - <$count filter="[tag[zz] 
> zzfield1]"/>
>
> Any directions to threads about such esoteric wikiery would be greatly 
> appreciated...
>

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Re: [tw5] "I moved to Discourse" - add your name too?

[A Gloom]

Someone say herding cats?  Let me testify, just like with walking into 
Mordor, you don't just herd cats.  You lead them.  And if they don't feel 
like following, it probably won't be happening...

Yes, I know I'm no help...

Will Discourse threads be indexed by Google in general?  I'm sure a few 
people (myself included) depend on the ease of being able to find TW info 
from this group (as well as TW official static pages) on normal Google web 
search results (I believe TW Reddit content also will come up in web 
searches)
On Tuesday, August 24, 2021 at 11:14:09 PM UTC-4 eddi...@gmail.com wrote:

> [image: My Brain.jpg]
>
> Thank You! I do have trouble communicating my thoughts clearly and keep 
> this photo on my phone when I run into situations where I think I may need 
> to explain why (they do this yearly and there has been no change in the 3/4 
> inch diameter hole in a very big head LOL). I am not looking for pity but 
> hoping to help make your point. We are all using TiddlyWiki with our own 
> understanding and skills. You are also absolutely right, the condensed 
> updates are as much or more than I can handle personally as is (you guys 
> are way too busy!) LOL. I keep up with these just to make sure what few 
> plugins I use are not known or expected to break as TW evolves. Also, I 
> think it is important that Jeremy has a say in which he wants to use. 
> Realizing of course the real discussion is happening in GIT but all of that 
> is way over my head now anyway. Still his announcements about new features 
> and explanations on how to use those when questions come up here as well as 
> the base TiddlyWiki without addons or plugins (or at least as minimal a set 
> as possible) have been extremely helpful to me. So where he goes I need to 
> go because he knows when he adds new features he needs to make the 
> explanations and use of them as intuitive and user friendly (there's an old 
> term!) as possible and most likely with those explanations in mind. 
> TiddlyWiki itself is the best example that I can think of due to its 
> simplicity in a way. It has amazing capabilities but an ease of use 
> unparalleled by programs that have almost none of the customization 
> capabilities allowing it to be used as needed. I have seen efforts to write 
> books and manuals fail not due to a lack of effort, knowledge, or ability 
> but a lack of being able to keep up with the pace TW5 evolves which is an 
> amazing example of how much work Jeremy and those who help him have 
> put into this over the years! To me this group does represent a record of 
> all that effort and progress he might prefer continues here? 
>
> But not trying to argue for or against with anyone. LOL I know longer have 
> those skills either (happily). I am Just trying to keep up, which is 
> probably a fool's errand anyway but, also offer a reminder that unless 
> there is a fork planned I personally feel no one should just take the 
> community he has built here and put it over there without him at least 
> being a part of that decision.  
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 10:20 PM strikke...@gmail.com <
> strikke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Tony,
>> Ed did not complain. He would not like to miss totally out on the group 
>> and is afraid that will happen! Explained that his need was to receive 
>> email summary as that is the only way it would be possible for him to enjoy 
>> the part possible for him to use. The question was not about the reasoning 
>> for some to want the move - but: "Will I be able to receive email summary 
>> from this new group - and if so, can someone help me get it set up?"
>>
>> Just as when you asked for a couple of days, why you were not able to 
>> login and get writing in the new group - and asked repeatedly to get help 
>> from moderators to be able to write to the group. (Sure easy to sign up - 
>> you now write). Other people have other problems, and not everyone has all 
>> of your expertise in using all sorts of groups at a professional level.
>>
>> As a promoter for the move and now a leader in the new group prepare for 
>> questions like this - and be happy when they are asked. This group is large 
>> and lots of users have used it for years - but have special needs to be 
>> able to do so.  If questions like this is not met with answers - those 
>> users will just be sorry and give up without telling you - and have lost 
>> yet another thing in life. Please remember that someone's gain is often 
>> happening while others loose out.
>>
>> We know that quite some users of this group -found ways to keep using 
>> Tiddlywiki and this group. And at. some point explained their special needs 
>> and why they needed a solution. Poor eyesight or blindness has been one of 
>> them.
>>
>> I would think that promoting the discourse group - why not make it clear 
>> - can you use the group directly from receiving emails - emails summary. 
>> Can you use the group fully if your only way of being able 

[tw5] List sort by count field operator

[A Gloom]

I saw references to sorting list results by the count operator but didn't 
find the actual threads/posts about the method.

I assume it will require a subfilter, because in a root list filter the 
count just returns the count of the list results, not counts for each of 
the list results.  

The sortsub operation worked with anything involving the titles of the list 
results (such as length) but not the count operator.

What I'm aiming for is ranking/sorting results (greatest to lowest counts) 
of such lists as tags and tiddlers tagged with each or

fields and how many tiddlers have each value of a particular field such as 
below:

<$list filter="[tag[zz]each[zzfield1]get[zzfield1]]"><$view 
field="title"/> - <$count filter="[tag[zz] 
zzfield1]"/>

Any directions to threads about such esoteric wikiery would be greatly 
appreciated...

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[tw5] Re: Dynamic list with tiddler names containing a space

[Sandip Deshmukh]

BurningTreeC, Thanks.

But the filter syntax you have provided does not produce any results.

Any other ideas?

On Wednesday, August 25, 2021 at 11:36:28 AM UTC+5:30 BurningTreeC wrote:

> Hi @Sandip_Deshmukh
>
> first of all, the filter syntax to insert a variable is the following:
>
> <$list filter="[project]">
> ...
> 
>
> note that it doesn't use the [ ] and << becomes < and >> becomes > within 
> a filter expression
> Sandip Deshmukh schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. August 2021 um 07:47:03 UTC+2:
>
>> I was trying to create a dynamic list containing a list of all tiddlers 
>> containing the current tiddler as a member of the field project.
>>
>> I am in tiddler "B B" that carries the following code:
>>
>> 
>> <$list filter="[project[<>]]">
>> <$link />
>> 
>> 
>>
>> Another tiddler "D D" has [[A A]] and [[B B]] in participants.
>>
>> So, ideally, "D D" should show up in my "B B" tiddler. But it doesn't.
>>
>> How do I set things right?
>>
>

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[tw5] Re: Dynamic list with tiddler names containing a space

[BurningTreeC]

Hi @Sandip_Deshmukh

first of all, the filter syntax to insert a variable is the following:

<$list filter="[project]">
...


note that it doesn't use the [ ] and << becomes < and >> becomes > within a 
filter expression
Sandip Deshmukh schrieb am Mittwoch, 25. August 2021 um 07:47:03 UTC+2:

> I was trying to create a dynamic list containing a list of all tiddlers 
> containing the current tiddler as a member of the field project.
>
> I am in tiddler "B B" that carries the following code:
>
> 
> <$list filter="[project[<>]]">
> <$link />
> 
> 
>
> Another tiddler "D D" has [[A A]] and [[B B]] in participants.
>
> So, ideally, "D D" should show up in my "B B" tiddler. But it doesn't.
>
> How do I set things right?
>

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